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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Danny and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told you production of I Heart Radio or

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Speaker 1: today's episode. We did want to issue a trigger warning

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Speaker 1: at the top here. Um, we do have some stats

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Speaker 1: and and mentions of domestic violence, rape and assault. So

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Speaker 1: just putting that out there if if today you're not

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Speaker 1: in space to deal with any of that stuff just right,

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Speaker 1: perhaps wait or or skip it. Yeah, and I guess

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Speaker 1: we can go ahead and put just a heavy societal

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Speaker 1: issues as a warning as well, because we are going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about the funding the police and what

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Speaker 1: that means and what that could mean for women or

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Speaker 1: those who identify as female. And um, yes, everybody's kind

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Speaker 1: of tired. Uh, everybody is kind of worn down with

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Speaker 1: it talking about it. But as many have said before,

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Speaker 1: think about dealing with this every day and then wonder

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Speaker 1: how it's hired, you really would be, and why we

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Speaker 1: should be talking about it and why it's important to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. And today it is a big topic

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Speaker 1: locally and nationally defunding the police and what does that mean.

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Speaker 1: So we know a few cities that have begun to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation of cutting budgets or reallocating, and then

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Speaker 1: there's also been the bigger discussion of disbanding the police

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Speaker 1: force altogether. UM. And by the way, in fourteen, Camden

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Speaker 1: County Metro Police did start doing some of that work,

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Speaker 1: let go of all of their staff and re hired

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Speaker 1: half of them back and then new officers and downgraded

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Speaker 1: the budget um as well as the personnel. But apparently

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Speaker 1: as you looked a little deeper, some of argued that

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Speaker 1: they didn't really defund but just restructured. And though it

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Speaker 1: was a good first step, the question is was it

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Speaker 1: enough to make a real difference, because they ended up

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Speaker 1: getting all their budget back and they still have the

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Speaker 1: same amount of police officers, if not more now. UM.

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Speaker 1: So there's call it kind of questions of who has

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Speaker 1: it actually been done? Like we're asking should it be

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Speaker 1: done today? We did want to focus on this as

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Speaker 1: the impact and how it might impact those who identify

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Speaker 1: as female, UM and just an overall who's going to

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Speaker 1: be impacted and how effective would it be? But first

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do a quick rundown of what it means. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: I think there has been as this conversation has been

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Speaker 1: taking place a lot in our news and social media. Um,

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Speaker 1: there has been some misunderstanding of what it means. So,

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Speaker 1: so what do we mean when we say defund the police? Um?

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Speaker 1: So we've been talking a lot about police brutality and

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Speaker 1: what it means to hold responsible those who use force

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Speaker 1: and deadly tactics as a power play, how to hold

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Speaker 1: people accountable in power And it's been a conversation that

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Speaker 1: has been talked about for a while, and usually after

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Speaker 1: significant murders like Michael Brown Jr. And Eric Garner and

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Speaker 1: kind of like it sounds redistributing the funds allotted to

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Speaker 1: police departments for more community mental health level of care.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty much the basic definition of defund the police,

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Speaker 1: and we're not gonna linker too long on it. This

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Speaker 1: could be the first part of disbanding the police altogether

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Speaker 1: and redoing the structure from the ground up. This also

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Speaker 1: includes dismantling the idea that police are stewards for the

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Speaker 1: protection of their citizens, as we are witnessing police brutality

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Speaker 1: for non violent offenders as well as non violent protest,

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Speaker 1: which conflicts with these ideas anxieteas of protection. Many cities

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Speaker 1: have already started to debate uh reallocating some funds to

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Speaker 1: other areas, specifically for housing, healthcare, and non punitive forms

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Speaker 1: of rehabilitation such as counseling and education. The budget for

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Speaker 1: many of the larger cities are billions of dollars, which

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Speaker 1: outstrips by millions and usually billions of dollars for other

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Speaker 1: types of government programs. Most education budgets, as well as

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Speaker 1: mental health budgets for counseling, drug treatment, or even employee

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Speaker 1: care are significantly less, and a chunk of that. Police

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Speaker 1: law enforcement funding is specific for military level of equipment

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Speaker 1: and tactical training, and here we should point out a

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Speaker 1: type of training does not seem to coincide with the

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Speaker 1: level of responsibility that should be placed for such types

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Speaker 1: of equipment. So we're giving these big giant guns without

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Speaker 1: actually teaching about other ways of de escalate and or

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Speaker 1: how not to use them, or how to hold them,

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Speaker 1: or how to use them responsibly. Yes, things you would

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Speaker 1: hope people would know. It would be common sense. But

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Speaker 1: yet yet Um. Another thing we wanted to touch on

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Speaker 1: pretty briefly is that the history of law enforcement, because

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Speaker 1: this has come up by many different outlets. Um. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna go too much into it, but just

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Speaker 1: kind of context to give context of what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: The history of how the police and law enforcement in

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Speaker 1: the United States got started. Some of the earliest forms

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Speaker 1: of law enforcements like night watches, it can be dated

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Speaker 1: back to the sixteen thirties with Boston, and they weren't

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Speaker 1: necessarily a popular idea and we're privately funded and for

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Speaker 1: profit purposes. Later in the eighteen hundreds of Boston created

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Speaker 1: the first public funded law enforcement offices for the purposes

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Speaker 1: of securing and protecting transports and supplies. Somehow, the idea

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Speaker 1: of the citizens to pay for this type of services

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Speaker 1: came with the added notion that it was for the

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Speaker 1: common good. And by the way, some say that the

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Speaker 1: police force was used in the eighteen hundreds to not

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Speaker 1: just protect business supplies and transports, but to also control

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Speaker 1: and watch the immigrants moving into the colonies. By the eighties,

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Speaker 1: most of the major cities in the United States had

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Speaker 1: law enforcement or police force. So let's train is late

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Speaker 1: this to the South. Slavery was the driving force of

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Speaker 1: profit and wealth, and because of this, police force and

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Speaker 1: law enforcement was created as a way to preserve slave

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Speaker 1: labor and the enforcement of that system. Originally created in

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Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds in the Carolinas as slave patrols not

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Speaker 1: only to enforce and threaten those who are enslaved, but

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Speaker 1: to catch possible runaways and prevent slave revolts. Later, it

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Speaker 1: would be used to enforce segregation and the harassment and

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Speaker 1: oftentimes kidnapping of those who were freed from the enslavement.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, the slave patrols changed after the

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Speaker 1: Civil War and they were known as the KKK, who

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Speaker 1: would try to seize control. In the nineteen hundreds, August

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Speaker 1: Volmer restructured policing and he was known as the father

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Speaker 1: of modern policing. His ideology included sociology, psychology, and social

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Speaker 1: work into this idea of policing. He also felt college

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Speaker 1: and further education should be a part of training and

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Speaker 1: the requirements to be in a police officer. He even

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Speaker 1: created a separate system for juveniles. Later came prohibition and

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Speaker 1: organized crime, which pushed for more police and law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: and so began the state and federal level of policing.

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Speaker 1: Teamen were created to ensure prohibition by the Department of Treasury,

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Speaker 1: so later we could see the creation of the FBI

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Speaker 1: no longer leading to the ideas of Vulmer who had

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Speaker 1: patrols on foot, meeting neighbors and working for their own

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods and use social work and psychology as a part

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Speaker 1: of the method of policing. J Edgar Hoover began a

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Speaker 1: more forceful and more removed approach. The underlying of our

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Speaker 1: racial discrimination has always been a part of inserting authority.

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Speaker 1: We see more evidence of the injustice and unequal treatment

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Speaker 1: as this modern civil rights movement makes impact, moving on

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Speaker 1: to other protests and rights so the years, we can

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Speaker 1: see the conflict between protesters and law enforcements, and we

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Speaker 1: have seen many tactics too in protests, whether through loophole

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Speaker 1: rust or curfews, or even playing into commendation which includes

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Speaker 1: facial recognition technology being used by federal level of law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: Now with the more recent practices of law enforcement, we

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Speaker 1: see the uses of federal and state policies as ways

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Speaker 1: of enforcing new criminal standards that typically target people of color,

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Speaker 1: specifically the black and Latin ex communities, such as the

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Speaker 1: Zero Tolerance Act and stop at frisk. Racial profiling was

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Speaker 1: and is still actively used as a way of conducting

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Speaker 1: suspect search and seizures. Welcome, Yeah, as In fact, I

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Speaker 1: think I've still told the story a few times, as

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Speaker 1: in my own training when I was part of a

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Speaker 1: GAIN task force. One of the things that have been

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Speaker 1: implemented not only for law enforcements for police departments, but

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Speaker 1: also for juvenile justice level um of kind of practices

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Speaker 1: is to do GAIN training. Now, I typically would go

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Speaker 1: in thinking that we were trying to understand gains and

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Speaker 1: also kind of see who was there, who isn't there,

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Speaker 1: who is marked, who isn't marked. One of the times

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Speaker 1: that I went to the conference, the first thing that

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Speaker 1: one of the trainers said he was that, yes, we

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Speaker 1: use racial profiling. You're welcome, because this is how we

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Speaker 1: can catch the big wigs in the gang world. Which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, there was a good diverse crowd for this,

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Speaker 1: and I was there with two of my female black coworkers, uh,

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Speaker 1: and we kind of just sat there and shocked hearing

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Speaker 1: him say that out loud. And yes, he was white,

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Speaker 1: by the way, So to pretend like it's not happening

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Speaker 1: is absurd. Now, this was I spent a minute five six,

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Speaker 1: five years ago. I think that that training was, but

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Speaker 1: it's still relevant because that is still a mindset once

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Speaker 1: placed in their minds as a right they still use.

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Speaker 1: Just put that out there. But speaking of training, all

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Speaker 1: of that in the group mentality, we didn't want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the training course that is implemented. They are

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Speaker 1: over eighteen thousand police departments in the US, and the

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Speaker 1: standards are becoming an officer are fairly animal. Training to

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Speaker 1: become a police officer ranges from state to state and

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Speaker 1: they can range from ten weeks to thirty six weeks,

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Speaker 1: so two and a half months up to nine months.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, they're also retrainings every year recertifications,

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Speaker 1: but that almost equals out to be less than two hours,

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Speaker 1: about ten hours. Of course, they do have to do

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Speaker 1: training on their own and they are required to do so,

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Speaker 1: but they can pick and choose what they want, just

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Speaker 1: as a reminder now, this typically includes some written tests,

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Speaker 1: some understanding of local and state laws or by laws

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Speaker 1: and codes. Also includes gun training firearms qualification, which they

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Speaker 1: do have to do every year. For example, Georgia's post

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Speaker 1: training or peace officers standards in training is eleven weeks

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Speaker 1: with requirements for recertification in gun training and elective training

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Speaker 1: throughout the year, which can include specialties for sex crimes,

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Speaker 1: and crimes against children and et cetera. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to this conversation of why aren't there more trainings or

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Speaker 1: more requirements for a job that has so much responsibility,

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Speaker 1: several organizations are collaborating or trying to collaborate with departments

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Speaker 1: to teach different methods. These efforts don't seem to be

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Speaker 1: making too much of a difference. Some experts believe that

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Speaker 1: this may be due to the training method of shadowing

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Speaker 1: under more senior experience to police officers who have been

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Speaker 1: trained with a bias level of training. Um, maybe sort

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Speaker 1: of similar to what you were saying, Samantha, where Um,

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Speaker 1: that's just what's being taught by people who have been

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Speaker 1: there longer, and that's just how it's been so that's

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Speaker 1: being passed down. Um and uh, possibly the people being

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Speaker 1: shadowed they don't have the correct type of training that

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Speaker 1: would implement intervention, social interaction, and de escalation. So there's

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Speaker 1: so much more, so much more of this conversation to unpack.

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Speaker 1: But first we're gonna follow for a quick break for

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Speaker 1: Wordsmoor sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. And we

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Speaker 1: did want to talk about the attitudes towards women in

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Speaker 1: the police force, right. I know that's kind of been

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Speaker 1: a big conversation of women have been implicit to the

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Speaker 1: brutality as well and unsanely conduct as well. And we

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Speaker 1: have seen several shootings that it didn't involve women. But

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Speaker 1: we've also seen several women who have taken the lead

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Speaker 1: in trying to stop corruption. Um. And we won't talk

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Speaker 1: about this too much, but there are several police officers

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Speaker 1: who have been fired and or ostracized and blacklisted because

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Speaker 1: they stood up or protected citizens. Um. We also know

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Speaker 1: that we had a big viral video of a female

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Speaker 1: black police officer chasing down the man who shoved an

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Speaker 1: innocent protester and she made you to get in his face.

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Speaker 1: I mean that that's gone viral, and I think it

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Speaker 1: is important to note that there are those who would

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Speaker 1: want to stay for justice, and of course we would

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Speaker 1: also want to say put this caveat. We know not

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Speaker 1: all cops are bad. That's not a thing, and we're

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Speaker 1: not trying to say that that's implicit. But I think

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Speaker 1: what we have a bigger conversation of where's the majority's

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Speaker 1: mentality in these issues? That makes sense. But yeah, we

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Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about women in the force and

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Speaker 1: the women have actually been involved in law enforcement since

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds, they've not actually been a part

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Speaker 1: of the team. Women were originally hired to be guards

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Speaker 1: for female prisoners and was a part of the Quote

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Speaker 1: Women's Bureau, and it wasn't until the nineteen sixties when

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Speaker 1: New York female police officers sued for the rights to

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Speaker 1: be promoted and to allow women to be officially a

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Speaker 1: part of the police force and move up in the ranks.

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Speaker 1: Women are now allowed to be a part of the force,

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Speaker 1: but research shows that there is a resistance to that.

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Speaker 1: Statistics show that only eleven to fourteen percent of police

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Speaker 1: are women as of a few years ago, and there

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Speaker 1: seems to be a lot of reluctance and having women

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Speaker 1: being a part of the police force, whether it is

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Speaker 1: due to the idea that women are not masculine strong

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Speaker 1: enough to be in such a tough masculine field, or

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Speaker 1: one that is definitely perceived that way, are that women

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Speaker 1: are too nurturing or are not physically capable for completing

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Speaker 1: the job right. This may also align with the idea

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Speaker 1: that in order to be in law enforcement, a person

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Speaker 1: must be tough and show no weakness. The militarized idea

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Speaker 1: of police being crime fighters and must use brute strength

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Speaker 1: in order to protect. This part of the discrimination against

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Speaker 1: women and whether they are effective as officers. The term

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Speaker 1: pansy policing, often associated with the de escalation tactics, which

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Speaker 1: does take more time and more investment and more relationships,

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Speaker 1: has been associated with how women would police, which is

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Speaker 1: not always true, as we talked earlier, but it does

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Speaker 1: correlate to the use of force and brutality as a

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Speaker 1: solution instead of de escalation, and why is not used

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Speaker 1: as an alternative. I wonder if another piece of this too,

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Speaker 1: is sort of that I know a listener wrote in

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Speaker 1: about this for video gaming, but that idea that men

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Speaker 1: feel like I don't not all men, but that that

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Speaker 1: idea of when people feel like they can't be as

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Speaker 1: gross or that whole boys, but we've always I can't

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Speaker 1: do that around women. And then I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: this other day because there's also been this conversation of well,

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Speaker 1: in our a lot of our media, the police are

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Speaker 1: painted in a different way than is accurate, and I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about how a lot of women that I've

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Speaker 1: witnessed and these police procedurals or whatever are usually very

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Speaker 1: masculinized and very like one of the boys. Um So

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's a piece of absolutely, I know

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Speaker 1: while I was researching this, it does talk about the

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Speaker 1: boys Club being infiltrated and how they no longer could

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Speaker 1: be who they were, and whether that's being over the

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Speaker 1: top masculine, over the top racist, over the top sexist

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Speaker 1: that they could not have that freedom to do so

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Speaker 1: and having a woman as a part of that mint

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Speaker 1: letting go of the freedom to be blunt, quote and

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Speaker 1: quote and honest and in a course, I guess we

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Speaker 1: could talk about it being politically correct in that sense

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Speaker 1: of the time, and yeah, it definitely was part of

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Speaker 1: that in them being angry, much like in culs being

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Speaker 1: angry that their space was infiltrated by women and that

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Speaker 1: it is being taken over by women in general, and

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Speaker 1: it's not, but just having one woman means it's taken over, right,

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Speaker 1: I can no longer be as gross as I want

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Speaker 1: to be in the workplace or what um with that.

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Speaker 1: There have been statistics that show women as officers are

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Speaker 1: more effective due to their communication skills and use of

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Speaker 1: de escalation. According to a criminal justice site, women are

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Speaker 1: more likely to be effective in avoiding violence and quote

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Speaker 1: diffusing potential violent situations and are less likely to quote

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Speaker 1: engage in serious unbecoming behavior, which I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: such a nice way to say it, engage in becoming behavior,

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Speaker 1: very unbecoming of you. Of course, this is only a

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Speaker 1: small conversation of the big your problem and the toxic

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Speaker 1: environment in a field that has power and a lot

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Speaker 1: of say so over citizens. But it is interesting to

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Speaker 1: see the numbers and statistics of gender specific behavior in

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Speaker 1: a high risk, high stress job. Right, So we have

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about the history and it's just the

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Speaker 1: background of policing. There are big questions. There are so

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Speaker 1: many questions about what we do if there are no

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Speaker 1: police and it's not a question of not having police officers.

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Speaker 1: It's just a question of how we see police officers

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Speaker 1: and who that should be and how that should be restructured.

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Speaker 1: But many people have argued, again, what happens if the

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Speaker 1: police force loses funding or if they're disbanded, And we

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Speaker 1: wanted to look at some statistics specifically as it concerns

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Speaker 1: women or those identifying as women. And of course, one

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Speaker 1: of the big questions that we see repeatedly who will

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Speaker 1: you call if you are raped? Who are you going

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Speaker 1: to call if you are assaulted? So let's get this

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Speaker 1: out of the way. Let's go ahead and put this

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Speaker 1: out there. And I know our audience, it's like preaching

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Speaker 1: to the choir, but just in case you need an

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Speaker 1: sounded argument and or you want to just give our

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Speaker 1: podcast to them to listen, they probably have stopped, I

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Speaker 1: think at the beginning. But whatever, you see the title done.

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Speaker 1: And as most of you already know and has been

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Speaker 1: discussed on the show, the amount of cases that are

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Speaker 1: actually reported is minimal. According to the Rape Abuse and

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Speaker 1: Incest National Network or RAIN, three out of four rape

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Speaker 1: sexual assault cases are never reported, and out of that

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Speaker 1: only less than half and I say less than half

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Speaker 1: because it's not quite the number. Things like forty percent

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Speaker 1: of those cases are actually arrested. Then less than half

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Speaker 1: of that ever lead to a court appearance or a trial,

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Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. So yes, the numbers

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Speaker 1: dwindled down. And as we have discussed previously, even if

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Speaker 1: a case does go forward in a trial, we often

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Speaker 1: see minimal accountability for perpetrators and more trauma for the victims.

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Speaker 1: And when we look at harassment and sexual assault propetrated

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Speaker 1: on campus. Things have slowly reversed since the current administration,

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Speaker 1: as we discussed previously UM. The Obama era, though of

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Speaker 1: revamping the system of complaints and allegations within the system

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Speaker 1: due to the inaccurate and oftentimes ignored handling through the

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Speaker 1: police system, has allowed for a different setup for victims

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Speaker 1: and it has been for the most part more successful

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Speaker 1: and establishing accountability and safer environments for victims. And as

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Speaker 1: we recently discussed in our title nine episode, it is

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Speaker 1: slowly being uprooted, but for campuses that are maintaining the policy,

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Speaker 1: it has shown greater level of trust for victims that

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Speaker 1: those who are affected by harassment, sexual abuse, and rape.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is an important thing here clearly,

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Speaker 1: the fact that things are going on reported as bad UM,

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Speaker 1: but that's policing, isn't what getting rid of policing If

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Speaker 1: it's that's how it is right now, Like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: there's a disconnect there in it for me, Like there

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Speaker 1: can be other ways like this UM where people might

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Speaker 1: feel safer or feel more trust. So what we had

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Speaker 1: talked about it previously in our time of episode when

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Speaker 1: we had the investigator come on and talk about his

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Speaker 1: informative interviewing skills and training and how to talk to victims,

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Speaker 1: about the fact that not many people are receptive of

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Speaker 1: his type of policing and or investigation, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that how important it is to get the trust of victims.

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Speaker 1: And he gave off so many more statistics in his

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Speaker 1: own experience of seeing how many cases came through and

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Speaker 1: didn't come through. And I think it's important to remember

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Speaker 1: that it's never been about reporting to police. It's always

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Speaker 1: been about accountability and how to ensure safe environments and

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Speaker 1: who was doing that. It's not necessarily a police right.

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Speaker 1: And and if that would be a good one to

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to you, because I know he

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Speaker 1: talked about how he didn't have the training and he

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Speaker 1: didn't understand like what he saw as some one being

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Speaker 1: kind of forgetful. Wherein we've talked a lot about how

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Speaker 1: the brain works and the stress and trauma and memory,

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Speaker 1: and so he talked specifically kind of what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about in specific with rape and sexual thought, because he

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Speaker 1: was saying, I didn't have the training, I didn't understand

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Speaker 1: and now that he knows, he knows that there's a

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Speaker 1: better way. But is having a harder time to convincing

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Speaker 1: other departments, which says a lot um. So as we're

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Speaker 1: talking about rape and assault, we also wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about violence against women and those who identify as women.

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Speaker 1: So in the past ten years, a study shows that

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Speaker 1: the number of women murdered has not decreased. The numbers

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Speaker 1: are pretty steady, even increasing slightly in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years um. And women are more likely to be

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Speaker 1: martyred by someone they know, and we've talked about this

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Speaker 1: before and most likely by intimate partner, and the number

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Speaker 1: of domestic and partner bolets has not significantly improved in

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Speaker 1: any way, as in fact, the numbers are still fairly steady.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to the deaths of trans women

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Speaker 1: in the past five years, we not seeing any decrease

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Speaker 1: nor any real advocacy or assistance in deterring violence against

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Speaker 1: trans and gender nonconforming individuals from the government or law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: In fact, this year alone, the number of transgender or

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Speaker 1: non binary deaths have come close to the yearly number

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Speaker 1: from the past three years, which begs the question has

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Speaker 1: policing deterred crimes against women? And we will also wanted

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Speaker 1: to look at policing women. The overall arrest numbers may

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Speaker 1: have decreased in the last ten years, there's a rise

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Speaker 1: of arresting women and specifically women of color. Majority of

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Speaker 1: the rest, like many others, are non violent crimes such

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Speaker 1: as theft, drug related traffic, or probation violations, which could

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Speaker 1: be due to anything from not paying fines to non

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Speaker 1: compliance and checking in. And more than half of the

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Speaker 1: women are locked up in jails and not necessarily in

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Speaker 1: state level prisons, as in fact, most of those women

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Speaker 1: have not been processed or seen in court, but are

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Speaker 1: actually awaiting for trial, and many of those remained incarcerated

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Speaker 1: due to having funds or the assets to post bail.

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Speaker 1: I think we should also know that these numbers are

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Speaker 1: not the most accurate due to the data that is

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Speaker 1: received by different organizations, as most of the Justice Department

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Speaker 1: did not do data based on sex or gender until recently,

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Speaker 1: and then we want to say recently, I mean in

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Speaker 1: the last probably six years, and in the last four

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Speaker 1: years they've doubled down in not doing that data. Just

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Speaker 1: to put that there um and getting these numbers nationwide

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Speaker 1: have been noted to be really difficult again, which is

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Speaker 1: another issue that has been a part of the bigger

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Speaker 1: conversation accountability and correct data, which we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more in a bit. And if we

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Speaker 1: look at the limited arrest and tension records of women,

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Speaker 1: the statistics UM not surprisingly are also limited. The Death

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Speaker 1: and Custody Reporting Act, created in ten has not been

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Speaker 1: helpful UM. In fact, when two members of Congress, the

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Speaker 1: Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Gerald Nadler of New

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Speaker 1: York and the Chairman of the House Subcommittee on Crime,

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Speaker 1: Terrorism and Homeland Security, Karen Bass of California, requested an

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Speaker 1: investigation on why the Department of Justice has not implemented act,

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Speaker 1: they received a response from the current Inspector General they

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Speaker 1: would not be able to get any information to the

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Speaker 1: end of the fiscal year, which is in September of

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Speaker 1: this year. By the way, the d o J went

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Speaker 1: on to say they will not be sitting report of

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Speaker 1: the d c R a UM. Also worth noting the

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Speaker 1: original requirement was that it would be collected and submitted

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Speaker 1: quote no later than two years after December. So so yeah,

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Speaker 1: we could not find the statistics. The numbers are so limited.

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Speaker 1: It is I'm sure it could be, but I have

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Speaker 1: a feeling it would be us going to d C

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Speaker 1: looking through actual paper documents for anything like one of

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Speaker 1: those montage sheenes and the movies where they're doing all

435
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: the research and they get the little newspapers down everywhere

436
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: and then they could flip through that little what is

437
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: that thing? You have no idea, but I know exactly

438
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I used to I used those

439
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: when I was younger, By the way, That's how I am. Wow. Um,

440
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: and Dada collection is so so so it's so important. UM,

441
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: just to say, very very important. UM. We do have

442
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: a lot more for you, but first we have one

443
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: workup break for a word from our sponsor and we're back.

444
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. So we did want to look at

445
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,479
Speaker 1: in this idea of defunding the police, where would those

446
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: funds originally meant for the police go and how would

447
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: that help? Right? Um? Yeah, so where does the where

448
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: would the money go? That is the big question. If

449
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: you're on social media and been watching the debate, is

450
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: about this issue that I'm sure you've seen the many

451
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: sarcastic remarks saying things like call the social workers or

452
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: I'd like to see a social worker handled this in

453
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: regards to recent violent crimes, or for one guy who

454
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: one plus question of seeing a bear in the streets,

455
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: in which, of course the replies to that was hilarious,

456
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: like dude, you know there's wildlife and animal control, right,

457
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: but whatever, um, And many seem to not completely understand

458
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: what social workers do. UH. Situations like domestic violence, child abuse,

459
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: strugg related situations actually already start with social workers. So

460
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: social workers are brought in to conduct many forensic interviews.

461
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: And when I say forensic interviews, I'm talking about interviews

462
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: in relation to crimes and or victimization. And we are

463
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: oftentimes trained to come in and have a sit down

464
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: conversation with youths and also psychologists and counselors. So you

465
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: have different people um doing these types of interviews, and

466
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: social workers complete investigations within homes and oftentimes have to

467
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: involve police or law enforcement for assistance after the fact. Um.

468
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: And but relationships between agencies are buried. And I say

469
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: this as every I went to several different areas, I've

470
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: worked in different counties in each county had different relationships

471
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: with different agencies. Will put it that way. And many

472
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: of juvenile justice systems have turned to restorative justice practices

473
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: and seek social workers as an answer to rehabilitation over

474
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 1: punitive justice. Social workers and social service providers have been

475
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: implemented to train workers to practice therapeutic and restorative programs

476
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: as well as motivational interviewing and tactics that will help

477
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: build relationships with offendors. With budget cuts UM, typically we

478
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: see mental health services being the first thing to be

479
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: taken out UM though federal gance may happen. The limited

480
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: amount of funds as well as the strict requirements and

481
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: standards for people to qualify into a program limits who

482
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: has served and how long, and often becomes one size

483
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: fit all type of program. And just like anything within

484
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: social services program works, it is stretched beyond capacity and

485
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: often becomes less effective due to the lack of skilled clinicians,

486
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: are limited amount of space in programs which can be

487
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: easily fixed with YEP more funding. And you'll hear in

488
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: an upcoming interview that we did with a coworker, a

489
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: former coworker of mine from the Department Juvenal Justice, who

490
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: is a counselor UM who has her degree in school counseling,

491
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: how we talk about that we witnessed many times where

492
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: things become ineffective because it's running the ground essentially. And

493
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: we talk about burnout a little bit, and this is

494
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: what causes burnout. Not only do we take the person that, hey,

495
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: we found a great clinician, Now let's give them fifty

496
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: times where they can handle because you're the one good thing,

497
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: and then we end up losing that program or that

498
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: person and it becomes a whole spiral. And by the way,

499
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: with funds, as you have seen in the news lately,

500
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: there are being threatened if they're doing something that specific

501
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: authorities don't like. I don't know how else to say it.

502
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: So do they think you're being insulting somehow, and or

503
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: you're doing something a little too political or not political enough,

504
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: they may just take away their funding and just threaten it. Um.

505
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: We have seen this as we are talking about COVID

506
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: nineteen and the school systems and whether or not they're

507
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: going to open the schools or not. And I find

508
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: that so disgusting. But that is also a key proponent

509
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: of why funding does not always work. Then again, we

510
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: do have things like Title nine, which also reinforces better

511
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: behavior to so you have that hit and missed type

512
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: of situation. But going back, if you look at cities

513
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: that have already defunded or reallocated funds to community social

514
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: services program we see a decrease in police brutality and

515
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: better treatment methods instead of just incarcerations. Cities like Eugene,

516
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: Oregon have become a model city where they have created

517
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: a mental health crisis response with clinicians and medical assistance.

518
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: They were given a budget of over six million dollars,

519
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: which by the way, is significantly less than the overall

520
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: police budget, but they have shown good results. Also, just

521
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: a side note, according to one statistic from a few

522
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: years ago, and we talked about this in that episode

523
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: I'm telling you about so get ready for the episode

524
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: with my friend and I and of course anybody, and

525
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: he was like, what's the hell is happening? Sorry about that?

526
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: Women make eighty five percent of the social workers in

527
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: the field. So increasing funds and money would be increasing

528
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: pay for women in services like social work and counseling,

529
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: which has some of the highest level of burnout and trauma.

530
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: Just put that there, Yes, and then if we look

531
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: at mental health and crisis intervention. According to one report,

532
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: police departments report that one and four of those involved

533
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: in police shootings have untreated symptoms of a mental health diagnosis,

534
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: and according to the Treatment Advocacy Center, the likelihood of

535
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: a person with a serious mental illness like schizophrenia, schizo

536
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: effective disorder, others chicotic disorder are more likely to see

537
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: prison time for a misdemeanor. Now, these members are somewhat

538
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: debatable as we don't see the bigger picture when it

539
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: comes to people who are not diagnosed or who are

540
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: incorrectly diagnosed, as well as people who have multiple arrests

541
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: and offenses. Sort of hard to us all of that out,

542
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: and as we talked earlier, the data is not there.

543
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: We have missing data. So what would be funded for

544
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: those in native medical assistance? The obvious answer is qualified

545
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: counselors and therapists. Many systems have limited amounts of preventative

546
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: measure as a way of pre trial requests. So that's

547
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: another conversation is what are these pre trial requests? What

548
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: can we do to do to diffuse the situation um

549
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: all those different levels. So let's say we have theft

550
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: or vacancy. Instead of locking them up, what would counseling do?

551
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: And by the way, free or affordable counseling UM as

552
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: a preventative and not at an afterthought, and instead of

553
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: bringing police as first responders, what would happen if we

554
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: brought in a crisis intervention team. And by the way,

555
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: more than half of the a p A or American

556
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: Psychology Association members are women and a majority of them

557
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: are in governance position, which would also be a part

558
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: of the macro level practice and nonprofits. Another need is

559
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: crisis intervention programs. Places like Eugene, Oregon, as we mentioned earlier,

560
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: have already implemented the CAHOOTS program or c A h

561
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: O O T. S UM Program or Crisis Assistants Helping

562
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: Out on the Streets. As of ten, they were able

563
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: to assist twenty four thousand calls with medical attention and

564
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: crisis assessment. A crisis intervention training program has been implemented

565
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: and taught to police forces by the National Alliance of

566
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: Mental Illness, which they started doing in night. The program

567
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 1: was created to help decrease the potential harm to the

568
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: citizen as well as to the officer. The idea about

569
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: hid the program is based on the fact officers are

570
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: often first on the scene and typically are not trained

571
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: to handle a crisis situation. In regards to someone with

572
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: a mental health diagnosis. The program is ongoing and has

573
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: been looked at and provided to several departments. However, it

574
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: is self referred and is ongoing process which often can

575
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: be forgotten during the heat of the moment. And here

576
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, the Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Disabilities

577
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: does offer assistance, but much like any mental health services

578
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: around the country, the limited funds also limit who and

579
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: how they can assist. For any case to be accepted,

580
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: the continuating circumstances has to be severe, so it becomes

581
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: an afterthought instead of prevention or intervention, and it becomes

582
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: kind of an aftercare process of how to treat them

583
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: after the initial crisis, which is not great um and

584
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: though Georgia did put in a crisis line a few

585
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: years ago to complete assessments in referrals, not many people

586
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: know to contact them. And by the way, the minute

587
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: amount of services after an assessment and referrals are often

588
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: roadblocks to actual treatment due to the cost and lack

589
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: of insurance. So there are some ideas already out there,

590
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: it's just that no one seems to be catching on

591
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: and or it's not fundative, or and or there's no continuation.

592
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: So you have one one thought process or one great idea,

593
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: but it stops there and it doesn't get to the

594
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: root of everything that's happening. Sure. Um, yeah, there's there's

595
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: so much at play here. Uh. And one of the

596
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: things we did want to talk about is education. Um

597
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: and and this is such a huge broad topic in itself.

598
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: We can look at it in specific ways when it

599
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: comes to this conversation. Pay raises for teachers, better employee

600
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: insurance for all employees, and we could talk about universal

601
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: health care and we wouldn't even need to discuss this

602
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: as an individual career employment thing. But that's another They're

603
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: a whole separate episode right now. That is a thing

604
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: we must include in this conversation. UM. Better technology equipment,

605
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: funding for trips and additional educational learning experiences, after school programs,

606
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: tutoring services, and arts, extracurricular activities. We could go on

607
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: and on about the things that are currently needed to

608
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 1: better our current school system. And provisions to all state

609
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: funded programs that would equal out the playing field and

610
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: educational experiences UM. And we're talking about this in terms

611
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: of keeping people out of prison. Um. But we also

612
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: need to look at what this looks like as a

613
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: preventative measure in recidivism. Right. So, recidivism within the US

614
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: is over fifty six percent likely after the first year

615
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: of release and only grows every year thereafter. But research

616
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: shows that with educational opportunities the percentage goes down exponentially.

617
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: Just with vocational training alone, the chances decreased by And

618
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: the question is why. I think it's pretty simple. By

619
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: providing education, the likelihood of attaining a job and opportunities

620
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: for pay without resort to crime grows significantly. Um And

621
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: by putting money into education, the amount of tax dollars

622
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: being used for individuals being incarcerated, which by the way,

623
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: costs per person on average, will decrease due to the

624
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: decrease of recidivism. No, these numbers come from gt L,

625
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: which runs inmate calling system among other things, but the

626
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 1: d J reports similar numbers as well as the Bureau

627
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: of Justice. Yes, and also no, probably everyone knows, but

628
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: just in case recidivism is ending up backup prison if

629
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: you've been in there. Um So, we also wanted to

630
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: talk about the aspect of homelessness and housing and having

631
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: affordable housing as a piece of this whole thing. Arrest

632
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: among the homeless community is a fairly high number, and

633
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: among those that are arrested shows that the homeless population

634
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: are more likely to be suffering from a diagnosed men

635
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: to illness, and reports from specific cities such as l

636
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: A have shown that one out of three arrest or

637
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: interactions with the homeless involves some type of force or brutality.

638
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: Many of those who are arrested for misdemeanors and infractions

639
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: often are jailed for longer periods of time than the

640
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: rest of the population due to no income, no assistance,

641
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: and typically untreated mental health needs. And there are multiple

642
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: levels of trying to undo the systems that use gel

643
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: incarceration for solutions for homelessness. Um Everything from mental health

644
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: resources to actual homes and better living situations would alleviate

645
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: the use of arrest and incarceration. Of course, this is

646
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: just a few of the things that can happen if

647
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: funding is redistributed to assist in fund community based programs

648
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: and services. And we could keep talking about other services

649
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: like mentor and programs, family services, and many more, but

650
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: we do want to talk about if this even is possible.

651
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: Right um, though there have been a few cities that

652
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: have started to look at the budgets and redistribute funding,

653
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: such as California, New York, in Minnesota. There have also

654
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: been cities that have disbanded and rehired police, but the

655
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: results seem to be uncertain as either again the data

656
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: isn't clear, isn't there, or the policies did not change

657
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: UM in the greater picture, or it's pretty new in

658
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: some places and specifically we just don't know we were

659
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: as we were researching. Camden Metro Police Department has come

660
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: up repeatedly, and as we said at the beginning of

661
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: the show, it doesn't necessarily show any change, but because

662
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,479
Speaker 1: even though they did one thing, they didn't do the other,

663
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, UM though they did put a

664
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: lot more of their budget into police UH de escalation

665
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: programs and community health programs, and it does show that

666
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: there have been a significant decrease in arrest for them

667
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: since then. However, they're still reports from the citizens saying

668
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: that they have had many times where they've been profiled

669
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: and or UH mistakenly rested and used the same taxes

670
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: that we've seen in SeeMe UM alarming patterns that we've

671
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: seen in the bigger picture. So it's kind of that

672
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: well okay, but um, and what we are seeing in

673
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: improvements are the ones that like Eugene, Oregon, um and

674
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: other cities, And there are several other cities that I

675
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: didn't point out but didn't want to talk about where

676
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: they've been implementing more things like crisis in intervention and

677
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: our mental health services as part of the first response.

678
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: So that's definitely where we need to look at. But

679
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: again data isn't clear when they don't want to give

680
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: it to us. But yes, this is the big, big conversation,

681
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: and redistributing funds is a giant topic. And though it

682
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: this is a bigger part of what reformation and undoing

683
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: a military level of policing may take. There are a

684
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: lot of things that we need to do we need

685
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: to take a close examination of. But we're not gonna

686
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: go into that because it's obviously we've taken a lot

687
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: of the time just talking about funding and defunding and

688
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: redistributing money and allocating funds. Um. But some of the

689
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: things that you might want to look into, and we

690
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: might look into later on our topics that include undoing

691
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: qualified immunity, the role in power of police unions, and

692
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: the continued military training tactics for community police officers, and overall,

693
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: if we talked about the spanning police, what does that

694
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: actually mean? Um? But yeah, so there are other people

695
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: who are having this bigger conversation, and we did want

696
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: to focus in what it looks like for women. But

697
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: because the subject is so new and because it is

698
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: so contentious, we don't always have that specific data, and

699
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: typically we don't have that data until after the fact.

700
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,479
Speaker 1: And we all know that. But as you can tell,

701
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: if we were to rethink and redo some of the things,

702
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: it would impact the whole entire community. It would impact

703
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: a lot of the marginalized people who have been continuing

704
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: to live in fear for the entirety of their lives

705
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: because the system is not where it should be. Yeah,

706
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: and um, this topic is obviously very very dense and

707
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: for some people very very personal. Um. And almost every

708
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: section we talked about education or social workers, homelessness, mental

709
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: illness in some aspects and a lot of ways. Do

710
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: you impact women more, um, whether it's because they're the

711
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: ones doing the work in that field or whether they're

712
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: the ones being more impacted by those issues. So this

713
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: is a really important conversation and um, it can get

714
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: really heated and it is very complicated, but that doesn't

715
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: mean we shouldn't have it. Um. It's very very important

716
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: in fact, because of all those things. Yes so, Um,

717
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: there are a lot of big questions left to examine

718
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: and a lot of details to hash out and discuss

719
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: and as we said multiple times, data that we need. Um. So,

720
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: if there's any particular aspect of this that you think

721
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: would be really beneficial for us to dig into, you

722
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: really want to hear more about, please please let us know, yes, please,

723
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: And those who are actually in that field, and those

724
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: who are working for things like the crisis and evengtion,

725
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: please reach out to us. Tell us what's going on,

726
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: and tell us what you see, and tell us what

727
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: you think needs to happen to help reformat the system

728
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: for the better. Right, Yes, please, And you can email

729
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: those things to a fancy email stuff Medio Mom Stuff

730
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: at iHeart media dot com. You can find us on

731
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, are on Twitter

732
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to your superproducer

733
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: Andrew Howard, Thanks Jubie, and thanks to you for listening

734
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: Stuff I Never Told You. The protection of I Heart

735
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: Radio for more podcasts from my heart Radio is the

736
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

737
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. The p