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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your

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Speaker 2: weekly podcast about how there's lots of bad stuff, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes there's good stuff that usually exists in relation to

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Speaker 2: the bad stuff. One of the good things that exists

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Speaker 2: in relation to this bad world is my guest Matt Leeb.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I'm one of the good things.

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Speaker 2: That's it's not going to feel extra awkward once we

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Speaker 2: talk about what the subject of this.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm excited, very excited.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you are the host of the most moral podcast

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Speaker 2: in the world, Bad Hasbro. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: That is correct? That is my new podcast, newish. I've

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Speaker 3: started it, I think in late December. Yes, it is

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Speaker 3: the world's most moral podcast. Badhaess Bara and you can

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Speaker 3: check that out. We talked about Israeli propaganda. It's a

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Speaker 3: lot of I would say it's a lot of fun,

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Speaker 3: but you know, fun is one of those, you know,

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Speaker 3: nebulous terms.

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Speaker 2: One man's take a ton of things that are bad

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Speaker 2: sometimes otherwise there's not really a lot available to us

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Speaker 2: in this world.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise it's just crying. And it's like, you know, sometimes

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Speaker 3: you've got to have a different outlet for your emotions

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Speaker 3: other than crying. Sometimes you gotta laugh, and that's what

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Speaker 3: we try to do. It's a comedy podcast about Israel.

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Speaker 3: What a time. You know. What's also actually interesting. I

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Speaker 3: think I talked about this wanting to do this podcast

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Speaker 3: the last time I was on this show.

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Speaker 2: I think so too, because it was around It was

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Speaker 2: just last December, I think you were last on.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and I was just like, you know, I think

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Speaker 3: I said something along the lines of, you know, oh, man,

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Speaker 3: I just I wish I could do a podcast about this,

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Speaker 3: and I've wanted to do it for years. And then

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Speaker 3: one day, in the middle of the night in December,

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Speaker 3: I was just like, market, I'm gonna just put an

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Speaker 3: episode out.

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Speaker 1: I get my idea is it's always in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night. Yeah, And I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: odd why I must do immediately.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's that's that's how I roll. I just like

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Speaker 3: I get a spark of inspiration, and usually that sparks.

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Speaker 2: And says, do you want to you know, live a

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Speaker 2: decent life and inf case you have to make this show?

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Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah. And most of my AD's in middle

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Speaker 3: of night are like eat cinnamonto, scrunch or you know,

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Speaker 3: but this time it was make a podcast, which is

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Speaker 3: kind of like masturbating, but.

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Speaker 2: Mine is usually I'm clearly dying if it's the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night. I've actually learned to not take my

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Speaker 2: body's messages to me seriously smalllywhere between about two am

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Speaker 2: and eight am.

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Speaker 3: That's that's honestly the best way to go about living.

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Speaker 3: All of the messages your body gives you at that

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Speaker 3: time of night are lies.

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Speaker 2: Which there's like a non zero chance that I will

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Speaker 2: die at some point of some horrible fever and I'll

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Speaker 2: be like, no, I'm just anxious.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, no, it's not a heart attack.

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Speaker 3: I'm just just yeah, exactly, I had a really spicy

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Speaker 3: and then you die, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: My chest is always numbah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: The left side of my face is always droopy. You're

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Speaker 3: going crazy, Matt.

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Speaker 2: That's extra fun because the reason I feel terrible in

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Speaker 2: the mill of the night right now is I'm recovering

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Speaker 2: from oral surgery and one of the things is that

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Speaker 2: like my face is a little bit numb, and like

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Speaker 2: has been for a couple of weeks, and like, oh boy,

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Speaker 2: we'll be hopefully for a little while longer and not

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Speaker 2: like the rest of my life but it's like, I

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Speaker 2: certainly signed a form that said your face might be

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Speaker 2: numb for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 3: I signed a form that says it is what it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you know that or not? Yeah, but speaking.

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Speaker 2: Not at all of I'm sure there's a way painful

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Speaker 2: extract whatever. Today we're talking about Israel Palestine. We're actually

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Speaker 2: not talking about Israel today because Israel does not exist

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Speaker 2: at any point during what were talking about today.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that is, first of all, so offensive, How dare you?

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Speaker 3: Israel has always existed right in the hearts and thel's hearts.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes, for the names of the people who

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Speaker 2: were there who called the Palestine, but yeah, including the

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Speaker 2: Zionists who called it Palestine at the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, including all of the reading material that was

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Speaker 3: out there, the pamphlets and you know, the agit prop,

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Speaker 3: all that stuff, but you know, in the hearts, it

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Speaker 3: was there.

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Speaker 1: We're going back to, like the Ottoman Empire.

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Speaker 2: We are I'm going to talk about the Ottoman Empire today.

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Speaker 2: I I mean, most of what we talk about not

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Speaker 2: the Ottoman Empire. But I haven't had much of a

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Speaker 2: chance to lock about the Ottoman Empire anymore before, so

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Speaker 2: I'm excited listeners. Magpie is smirking very excited for Ottomans.

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Speaker 2: I love the atom very interesting. We are headed back

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Speaker 2: to the land where Monotheism was born, the land of Palestine.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about it's prehistory during the Ottoman Empire

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Speaker 2: and all the resistance of settler colonialism that folks there managed,

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Speaker 2: running up into the main topic of today, the Great

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Speaker 2: Revolt of Night teen thirty six, nineteen thirty nine. Oh wow,

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Speaker 2: When I say the main topic of today, I mean

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Speaker 2: part of Wednesday, because really I'm just talking about all

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Speaker 2: of roughly eighteen fifty to eighteen forty two.

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Speaker 3: Right, we'll get there. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Originally I actually planned this whole thing as a resistance

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Speaker 2: to the Knakba episode, which is later, you know, nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty eight or so, But there's so much to talk

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Speaker 2: about before that that that's a different episode one day. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we are going to talk about how Palestine was not

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Speaker 2: an empty land, and how from the very start Palestinian folks,

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Speaker 2: Muslim and Christian alike and together fought against the settler

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Speaker 2: colonial project that was displacing and killing people everywhere it went,

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Speaker 2: which means we're gonna talk about Zionism ooh.

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Speaker 3: Subject, I've heard about this. I think you know, I've

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Speaker 3: heard a thinger two, yeah, got some Thoughtsanism.

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Speaker 2: In the grand scheme of things is a relatively new ideology.

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Speaker 2: It shows up in the late nineteenth century, around the

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Speaker 2: time that just a fuck ton of modern ideologies were

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Speaker 2: being developed. And so sometimes when we're like, oh, zionism

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Speaker 2: is brand new, it is worth understanding that, like everything

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Speaker 2: is brand new in the nineteenth century. Yes, yes, the

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Speaker 2: idea of like, let's be a nation is sort of

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Speaker 2: a nineteenth century concept, which doesn't It's kind of hard

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Speaker 2: to understand, You're like, well, clearly had states and governments

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Speaker 2: before that, but nationalism is a new project of the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century. Zionism is of course a form of nationalism.

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Speaker 2: Everyone is going to use the word nationalism differently. It

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Speaker 2: had a fairly distinct meaning in the nineteenth century when

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Speaker 2: the first wave of nationalism swept across Europe. In general.

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Speaker 2: We have this flattened view of Europe as being the

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Speaker 2: sort of colonial center, and that's fair, but in the

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Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds it was more clearly itself also an internally

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Speaker 2: colonized space. Various ethnic groups were part of countries that

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Speaker 2: they or empires that they didn't want to be part of.

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Speaker 2: They wanted self determination, which means in some ways they

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Speaker 2: wanted nationalism. This was a common left wing position to have.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like a very natural way to fight imperialism.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there's like so many of these words that, like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, like literally, once the Nazis happened, like all

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Speaker 2: words change meaning for very yes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, or more so like solidify in the public consciousness

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Speaker 3: as a distinct thing that totally may or may not

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Speaker 3: have been the initial definition of the word totally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So you have, like, for example, kind of on

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Speaker 2: the leftish I mean, that's right when people involved this too.

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Speaker 2: You have Italian nationalism, you have Slavic nationalism, you have

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Speaker 2: Irish nationalism, you have Siberian nationalism.

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Speaker 3: Those are the.

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Speaker 2: Examples I use because i've like specifically read about them

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Speaker 2: doing research at various points for this show. All kinds

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Speaker 2: of nationalisms associated at least as much with the left.

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Speaker 2: But the left soon developed an ideological position that I

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Speaker 2: would argue is a easier to support one. It's called internationalism.

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Speaker 3: Whoa, I know, that's a crazy one. I know, what

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Speaker 3: if nationalism before everybody.

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Speaker 2: Basically yeah, yeah, let's still destroy empires, but unite people

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Speaker 2: based on their class position rather than their nationality ethnicity,

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Speaker 2: without erasing national differences or like ethnic differences. That's why

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Speaker 2: it's internationalism, not single.

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Speaker 3: Anti anti nation. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: From this point of view, you can view nationalism as

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Speaker 2: a politics of class collaboration. It's basically it's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you poor Irish, you have the same interest as the

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Speaker 2: rich Irish and they are different than the English right right,

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Speaker 2: And from this point of view, the poor are used

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Speaker 2: by useful idiots, by the local rich to get one

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Speaker 2: over against the foreign rich. And I am not going

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Speaker 2: to rabbit hole this as hard as I want to, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it doesn't totally relate with what we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about today a little bit. But so you have

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Speaker 2: a split between international which developed kind of out of

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Speaker 2: left wing nationalism, and in regular old nationalism. And a

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Speaker 2: lot of this nationalism is very morally defensible. It is

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Speaker 2: natural for an oppressed group to want to find national

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Speaker 2: unity and drive out their foreign rulers.

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Speaker 3: And it's natural for a group, especially minority ethnic group

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Speaker 3: in a geographic space, to want to govern themselves and

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Speaker 3: have the right to self determination. It's not an inherently

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Speaker 3: reactionary position to.

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Speaker 2: Have right exactly. And that's like one of the things

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Speaker 2: that easily gets lost. And one of these nationalisms is

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Speaker 2: called Zionism. This one is messy right from the start

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Speaker 2: because the Jews who were developing this were largely a

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Speaker 2: diasporic people. They're not the majority anywhere that they're living.

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Speaker 2: A bunch of anti and non Zionist Jews were like,

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Speaker 2: that's chill. Wherever we are is home, right, We've talked

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Speaker 2: about that a bunch of times. But meanwhile, the Palestinians

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Speaker 2: are also experimenting with nationalism. Naturally enough, they're living undern empire.

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Speaker 2: Throughout the mid eighteen hundreds, you've got what's called proto Zionism,

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Speaker 2: which is before anyone actually was using the word Zionism,

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Speaker 2: but it mirrors the project that's going to come later.

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Speaker 2: This founded the first colonies of Jews and Palestine. To

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Speaker 2: be clear, this was not the first Jews in Palestine.

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Speaker 2: It's the first distinct colony as like a separate thing

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Speaker 2: that is outside the Arabic society. Yes, because there were

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Speaker 2: tens of thousands of Jews living in Palestine already.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they were called Palestinians. Yeah, exactly. That is an

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Speaker 3: important thing to remember whenever someone claims Jewish personhood as

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Speaker 3: being distinctly Israeli in the region. No Palestinians included all

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Speaker 3: sorts of different ethnic groups, as Americans do, as the

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Speaker 3: French do. Know, you know how we all used to

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Speaker 3: be normal and remember these things.

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Speaker 2: I know at Palestine's specifically we're gonn talk about a

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Speaker 2: little bit later, But Palestine specifically it's national identity was

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Speaker 2: very like, hey, what are the place that refugees show

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Speaker 2: up to? Yeah, like you want to be Palestinian. That's cool.

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Speaker 2: We have like some cultural things right about being Arabic

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Speaker 2: and you know, but like, yeah, anyway, well we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, and in order to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: we get to talk about the thing I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about since I started the show because I didn't

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Speaker 2: know enough about it, but I wanted to know more

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Speaker 2: the Ottoman Empire. Oh yes, you like my vaguely Christian

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Speaker 2: white American education. I did not know about the Ottoman Empire,

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Speaker 2: like as an adult.

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Speaker 3: No, completely, I had heard of it. I knew I

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Speaker 3: knew of it. I think I at some point learned

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Speaker 3: just enough to associate it with the the hat the fez. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know. I was like, I know, a fez is

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Speaker 3: part of it. I know, we're just talking about Turkey. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but that's that was pretty much all I knew about

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Speaker 3: it for a long time until I probably like late college.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, honestly, until I started doing more research into

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Speaker 2: history and for this show, I kept being like, why

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Speaker 2: whenever I'm trying to read about cool vampire related things,

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Speaker 2: why are they all fighting the Ottomans?

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Speaker 3: Who are the Ottomans? Why do they keep bringing up

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Speaker 3: this sold an empire that was just people putting their

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Speaker 3: feet up on Ottomans? What does it mean? Yeah, there's

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Speaker 3: an easy joke we all knew I was going to

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Speaker 3: do eventually, because I can't help myself, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: So I knew about the Ottomans as the place that

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Speaker 2: Eastern Europeans kept fighting and or being part of. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I also knew about it because I kept running

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Speaker 2: across it as the place that queer Europeans fled to

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Speaker 2: for sanctuary, because yeah, I didn't know that Ottoman Empire

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Speaker 2: way the fuck more like gay and trans inclusive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Automan Empire more like Hotterman and.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, or it's actually Automan it mean never mind, Yes.

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Speaker 3: I got it, I got it.

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Speaker 2: Ye finish, No, it's embarrassing. Okay, So the Ottoman Empire

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Speaker 2: is this big fucking empire that was around for roughly

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Speaker 2: six hundred years. That is more than twice a USA

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Speaker 2: for people keeping track.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a long long time been around.

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Speaker 3: I think the only I'm trying to think of an

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Speaker 3: empire rival in terms of length of time maybe Holy

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Speaker 3: Roman they were around for a while, yeah, different, you know,

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Speaker 3: they ended what like it's after Napoleon or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and started like charging.

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Speaker 2: Again, confused honestly by the like difference between the Holy

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Speaker 2: Roman and the original Roman.

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Speaker 3: And then yeah, me too. No, yeah, for a long time,

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Speaker 3: I was like, that's all the same thing, right, And

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Speaker 3: then someone laughed at me and I said, no, I'm

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Speaker 3: just kidding. I already knew. And then I read it Wikipedia, and.

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Speaker 2: So I actually feel like this entire episode a little

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Speaker 2: bit all of the stuff that I and I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of other people had been like just kidding.

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Speaker 3: I already knew.

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Speaker 2: About like, oh yeah, we all knew about early Zionism,

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Speaker 2: like totally, we all understand the way that And so

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Speaker 2: I just was like, fuck this, I'm gonna like I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be the idiot in the room and just

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Speaker 2: like really try and learn all this shit. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: the Ottoman Empire is not the good guys, but they're

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Speaker 2: not the bad guys compared to any other empire going

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Speaker 2: around at the time. They did a bunch of genocides,

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Speaker 2: which is famously not a good thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeast that. Yeah, Yeah, the.

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Speaker 2: Ottoman Empire was ruled from Turkey, and Turkey is not

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Speaker 2: an Arab country, so you've also have Arab nationalism coming

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Speaker 2: up at this time. That's like, hey, I speak Arabic

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Speaker 2: and I'm not ashamed of.

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Speaker 3: It, right right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, over in England you have a reasonably active enforcement

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Speaker 2: of the death penalty for dudes loving dudes. I know

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Speaker 2: most about this in England, but I've also read about

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Speaker 2: other people, Like there's like stories of like a frendship

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Speaker 2: German people like going to you know, going to the

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Speaker 2: Ottoman Empire in order to not be killed.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: In the Ottoman Empire an incredible amount of gender and

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Speaker 2: sexual diversity being tolerated, and it wasn't until the westernizing

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Speaker 2: influence of the nineteenth century that poets stopped openly talking

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Speaker 2: about how great it is when ladies love ladies and

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Speaker 2: dudes loved dudes. We covered, for example, the Russian Swiss

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Speaker 2: adventuring Muslim cross dresser Isabel Aberhart, who traveled freely as

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Speaker 2: a non passing man in North Africa in the nineteenth

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Speaker 2: century in a different episode, And the first time I'd

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Speaker 2: heard that story, I was like, how did she get

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Speaker 2: away with it? And the answer is that, like gender

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Speaker 2: and sex were understood differently at the time in that place.

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Speaker 3: Damn, it's wild. I mean, you know, if only only

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Speaker 3: we had had the CIA back then, then we could

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Speaker 3: have overthrown the government. And so a little bit of homophobia,

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Speaker 3: I know, get that started sooner. Let's get it started. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, bush here just wasn't born early enough. I

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Speaker 3: always say.

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Speaker 2: That's completely true, and everyone who lives in that region

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Speaker 2: just also thinks that.

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Speaker 3: If all think that, yeah, every famously think that.

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Speaker 1: Es.

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Speaker 2: Besides man and woman, there are gender expressions common in

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Speaker 2: Muslim society and Automan society at this time. Sexual and

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Speaker 2: gender permissiveness were part of these. Like Oreo and like

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Speaker 2: Europe knew this. The Orientalist tropes were like, oh, they're

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Speaker 2: all gay over there.

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Speaker 3: Right, the most European phrase of all the time. Oh,

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Speaker 3: it is everyone needs guy. Yeah, it was just blog

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Speaker 3: seven six with blogs I don't know, and I totally

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Speaker 3: am against it. So much does it cost to get there? Eh,

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to take a quick vacation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are five different non binary gender identities and

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Speaker 2: I did not have the time to get into them all,

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Speaker 2: but if you want to, you should read gender and

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Speaker 2: sexual Minorities in the Ottoman Empire on Wikipedia. Wow, sexuality

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Speaker 2: was still illegal in the Ottoman Empire, but it wasn't

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Speaker 2: enforced socially or criminally. And we are talking about a

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Speaker 2: huge empire and six hundred years, so this is like

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Speaker 2: roughly I'm going to go with roughly when I described this. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was another group of people that came from Europe

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Speaker 2: seeking refuge in the Ottoman Empire, away from the violence

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Speaker 2: and hatred of the backwards, closed minded Christian zealotry of

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Speaker 2: Western Europe.

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Speaker 3: Scientologists closes not scientologists, ok no, No, it's Jews. Oh okay,

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Speaker 3: oh that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not just the Jewish people born in the region,

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Speaker 2: but Jews fleeing persecution from Europe. The Ottomans explicitly welcome

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Speaker 2: Jewish immigration. Ashkenazi Jews came in large number in fourteen

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Speaker 2: seventy after being kicked out of Bavaria, which is part

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Speaker 2: of now Germany when the Alambra Decree in Spain in

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Speaker 2: fourteen ninety two. The other bad thing that came out

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Speaker 2: of Spain in fourteen ninety two, Yeah, which forbade practicing

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Speaker 2: Judy and told folks either convert to Catholicism or get

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Speaker 2: the fuck out. Yeah, a lot of people get picked

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Speaker 2: get the fuck out.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy that it's the same year as Columbus sailing

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Speaker 3: the Ocean Blue. Like Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue and

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Speaker 3: the Spain kicked out the ocean jew You know.

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Speaker 2: That is the rest of the rhyme that people.

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Speaker 3: People forget about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a rasure. Forty to one hundred thousand Sephardic

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Speaker 2: Jews picked get the fuck out and headed over to

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Speaker 2: the Ottoman controlled area, and then more non Zionist Ashkenazi

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Speaker 2: Jews came over fleeing Pograms in Russia in the nineteenth

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Speaker 2: century as well. Yeah, when they assimilated into the Ottoman Empire,

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Speaker 2: they didn't have to give up their religion or culture.

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Speaker 2: The Ottoman Empire was not a perfect liberal paradise. Religious

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Speaker 2: minorities were given a great deal more freedom and autonomy

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Speaker 2: than they had in most places in Europe. For example,

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Speaker 2: they could have whatever job they wanted, which is a

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Speaker 2: big thing that Jews couldn't do in most places in

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Speaker 2: Europe at most times. But like a lot of like

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Speaker 2: all non Muslims, Jews had to pay some kind of

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Speaker 2: like weird taxes and have dress codes and only live

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Speaker 2: in certain areas. Although people like to argue about how

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00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,639
Speaker 2: enforced this all was, I don't know if you knew this.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of propaganda.

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Speaker 3: Around this period and how a thing or two about this,

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Speaker 3: and propaganda and ret conning around Jews living in the

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Speaker 3: Arab world for you know, a thousand years, and the

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Speaker 3: amount of ret conning about how bad it was is

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Speaker 3: is a subject that I'm very interested in, as it

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Speaker 3: is usually brought up to justify some sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: in vengeance thing going on. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it's like I read people being like, well,

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Speaker 2: the Jews were can only live in certain areas, but

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Speaker 2: they weren't. They weren't like the bad areas like the

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Speaker 2: Pale was in Russia right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when people talk about, you know, Jewish life in

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Speaker 3: the Arab world during this period before and after, at

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Speaker 3: least up into the establishment of Zionism, you hear among

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Speaker 3: at least a lot of propagandas the word deemi a

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00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 3: lot and I don't know, And it's basically their description

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Speaker 3: of the second class citizenship status of Jews in the

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Speaker 3: Arab world. And it's always brought up in this way

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Speaker 3: to kind of justify a kind of generalized anti Arab

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Speaker 3: sentiment amongst Jews, either in the region or just in America.

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Speaker 3: They'll be like, you should hate Arabs because of that.

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Speaker 3: And I just like to remind people Europe much worse. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so incredibly worse that bringing up Demiism or bringing up

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Speaker 3: you know, just the way Jews were treated in the

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Speaker 3: Arab world is just so clearly what about ism that

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Speaker 3: I can't believe anyone takes it seriously.

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00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what people should take seriously.

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Speaker 3: Ah, is it products?

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00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 2: They should they should seriously consider whether or not they

390
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 2: need a new car or whatever the.

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Speaker 3: Hell a new car.

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Speaker 2: I need a new car otherwise these ads second class

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Speaker 2: citizen here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the newest car.

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Speaker 2: I made Sophie make a face. I think. I think,

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Speaker 2: I well, here's ads and we are back. And so

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Speaker 2: in Palestine in general or in particular, this national identity

398
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: that's starting to develop in the nineteenth century specifically focused

399
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Speaker 2: on it being a place that refugees and persecuted people

400
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: could come and be Palestinian, and a lot of it

401
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: from the very beginning is like, we are religiously tolerant.

402
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 2: That's our whole thing, and which is in comparison to

403
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 2: the Ottomane were anyone who is not Muslim, and the

404
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 2: Ottoman empires to pay all the taxes and have the

405
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: same restrictions that Jews have. And there's a you know,

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00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 2: huge Christian population in this area as well, but the

407
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 2: national identity in the area was fairly limited. And this

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00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: is the kind of thing that it's like it's easy

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00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, everyone always saw themselves totally as Palestinian,

410
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: because that would be a very convenient way to write

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00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: about a history. No one had nationalism until the mid

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century. Palestine got it at the same time as

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Speaker 2: everyone else. So when I say they got it recently,

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Speaker 2: I mean so did everyone?

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00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And that's an important thing to point out,

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Speaker 3: especially again if we're talking about ret conning. One of

417
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 3: the things that Zionus propagandists like to do is to

418
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: just talk about the non existence of Palestinians as a people,

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00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 3: and they're like, the Palestinians as a people only became

420
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: a thing, you know, like you know, recently, And it's like, yeah,

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00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,959
Speaker 3: that's the same thing with all forms of this modern

422
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 3: nationalism that you're talking talking about. I mean, you know,

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00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: you can't claim Zionism existed at the beginning of time,

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Speaker 3: just because it feeds your narrative.

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00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Zionism about as old as nationalism, yes, exactly, a

426
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 2: little bit newer than nationalism. Yes, a Palestinian would be

427
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: more likely to identify with their family, their religion, and

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00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 2: their immediate town or city far more than as a

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00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 2: nation like kind of in that order, But again, so

430
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Speaker 2: would everyone, you know, right, the Ottomans who controlled Palestine

431
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 2: during the start of Zionism, they ruled it in classic

432
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Speaker 2: imperial form. They weren't always super great to everyone, but

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Speaker 2: by the mid nineteenth century, starting in eighteen forty five ish,

434
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Speaker 2: as relates to land ownership, the Ottoman Empire is losing

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Speaker 2: a lot of its power Britain started toying with the

436
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 2: idea of Jewish colonies in Palestine. In eighteen forty nine,

437
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: after pressure from some British Jews, the Ottomans relaxed the

438
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: law against foreign Jews purchasing land, and the first settlement

439
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 2: started in the eighteen fifties and eighteen seventies. So if

440
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: you see the Jews are allowed to buy land now,

441
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: it's like no foreign.

442
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: People buy land now. Yes, there is a distinction.

443
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is the proto Zionism. The people didn't

444
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 2: identify Zionis because that didn't exist yet. Some of them

445
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: were still assimilating and learning Turkish and Arabic and all

446
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: of that. But this is the start of the we're

447
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: going to have separate and like we're going to be

448
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 2: separate and autonomous within our colonies thing is starting to

449
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: happen at this point. By eighteen fifty eight, the Ottomans

450
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: started doing again the thing that everyone was doing in

451
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: a bad way, transferring ownership of land out of communal

452
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: hands and into private land available for sale. So people

453
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 2: don't like talking about the enclosure of the commons as

454
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 2: part of all this, but it's part of it. Suddenly

455
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: a village didn't communally own its land, but individuals did.

456
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: And this model has been used colonially all across the

457
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: world to disenfranchise indigenous populations of land and then sell

458
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: it off. I've or at least I've personally read about

459
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: it hapening in Mexico and Ireland and the sort of

460
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: internal colonization of England even.

461
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can kind of extrapolate from just you know,

462
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: reading a little bit of history, you can extrapolate that

463
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: to the rest of history as well, especially during this era,

464
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: especially you know, during the golden age of capitalism and

465
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 3: private property.

466
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like what if we take everything out of

467
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: because it's like I grew up kind of thinking like,

468
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: well everything is owned by someone, right, yeah, same yeah, idea.

469
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, very new and and it is it is interesting

470
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: that you kind of take for granted, like a lot

471
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: of the kind of the I would say, like the

472
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 3: capitalistic culture that we live in now, we just kind

473
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: of assume is how it always was. This is why

474
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: whenever someone you know talks about like, oh, you want

475
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: to you want to live under socialism? Oh, I guess

476
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: you don't. I guess you can't sell shirts. And it's like,

477
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: do you think commerce didn't exist until capitalism.

478
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: Exists, exactly.

479
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 3: You know, commerce has been a thing, right, that's a

480
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 3: whole different guy, bro.

481
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. The idea of owning stuff, meaning that

482
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: you don't have to work but instead can make money

483
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: off of owning stuff. That is what capitalism is, yes, exactly,

484
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 2: it is a different model.

485
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah model.

486
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: I recommend everyone read the book Debt by David Graeber

487
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 2: for the history of money and anyway.

488
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: Yeah.

489
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: And so suddenly a lot of farmers in Palestine are

490
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: finding themselves tenants, and a lot of landowners are like, oh,

491
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: fuck it, I've got all this land, I'll just sell

492
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: it to the Zionists, right, And a lot of places

493
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: were suddenly bankrupt, which means that the Ottoman state could

494
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 2: confiscate their land and sell it Zionists. Well, once they

495
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: started calling themselves Zionists, right, which they started doing in

496
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: eighteen ninety. And it was in response on to the

497
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: ethnic and religious hatred and violence faced by Jews and

498
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: Christian dominated Europe. The idea is everyone else gets an

499
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: ethno state, where's our ethno state? Right, the modern version

500
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: being no one gets an ethno state. But you know, yeah,

501
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: it was Zionism was immediately controversial within the Diaspric Jewish community,

502
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: and people want to hear more about it. Listen to

503
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 2: our episodes about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and the Jewish

504
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: Resistance de Zionism episode with me and Matt Leeb.

505
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 3: That's right, it's a great one.

506
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: Plenty of folks were in Desionism. They had a bunch

507
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: of conferences, the first two in Switzerland in eighteen ninety

508
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: seven and eighteen ninety eight. The ideological founder of this movement,

509
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: not the coiner of the term, but the kind of

510
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: patron of it, this guy named Theodore Herzel. He's a

511
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: Hungarian Jew who in eighteen ninety six published a pamphlet

512
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 2: called Der Hudenstadt the Jewish State. That's right, and he

513
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: had already been thinking the shit over. We know what

514
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: he wanted to do. In eighteen ninety five he wrote

515
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: it in his diary, which is like, you go, how

516
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 2: your like evil villain thoughts, don't put it in your

517
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: fucking diary, Yeah, dear diary. Or one hundred and forty

518
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: years later, someone's gonna.

519
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, dear diary. So I read about this new thing

520
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: it's called colonialism. Seems pretty nifty, thinking about doing that. Well,

521
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 3: that's all for now, yeah bye.

522
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: He wrote, quote, we must appropriate gently the private property

523
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: of the estates assigned to us. We shall try to

524
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment

525
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment

526
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: in our own country. The property owners will come over

527
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the

528
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly,

529
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: which is like just so clear from you know. And

530
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,239
Speaker 2: it's it's funny that no matter how many times like

531
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 2: Hurtzel's own writings get brought up by people who are

532
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: refuting some person online saying just you know, like it's

533
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: how can it be settler colonialism if we're indigenous. It's like,

534
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: can you read his writing and he goes like, we

535
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: need to take the indigenous population and throw them into

536
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 2: the sea and or into transit countries. And it's just

537
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: like it's it's there in black and white, and it's

538
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: this we're talking about the founder of modern Zionism saying

539
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: the words, and you're just like, just like a different time,

540
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: he didn't know how to take Yeah, no, he didn't

541
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: yet know that in order to get you know, the

542
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: narrative to play in a modern sensibility that he would

543
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: later have to just change it to actually, we're indigenous

544
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: and they're the colonizers because reasons.

545
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, why not?

546
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he did it in public. I mean he's

547
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: also saying right when he says, oh, the removal of

548
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: the poor must be discreet, right, Yes, you're like, this

549
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: is my evil villain thought. I hope no one notices, right,

550
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: And so Jerusalem's on and off again. Mayor Use of

551
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: Dia writes a letter to Herzel, and he's like, hey, buddy,

552
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: I hear you trying to create Ethna state over here,

553
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: but like, we.

554
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: Kind of have our own thing.

555
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: We're part of the Ottoman Empire's a bunch of people

556
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: who live here.

557
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: Sorry.

558
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And despite what Herzel had written in his diary

559
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety five, you'd be shocked to know that

560
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: we were back to Dia. He spoke about it differently,

561
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: saying no, no, no, you don't understand. We'll make the

562
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: country better and we totally won't kick anyone out. Or

563
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: to quote him directly, you see another difficulty, excellency in

564
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: the existence of the non Jewish population in Palestine. But

565
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: who would think of sending them away? Not me?

566
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: Certainly someone bad would not me though not me. Don't

567
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: don't worry about it, Yeah, don't worry.

568
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: A lot has been written about how early Zion has

569
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: seemed to be incapable of referring to the indigenous populations

570
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: of Palestine as Palestinians or even as Arabs, always just

571
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: as non Jewish people, because the whole thing is that

572
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: they're claiming that Palestine doesn't exist. Palestinians don't exist. They're

573
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: just some non Jewish basically like squatters in what should

574
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: be their territory, you know, oh, the Ottoman Empire, like

575
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: put some people there, I guess, you.

576
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

577
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: This continues today. Nu Ginrich said that Palestinians were a

578
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: recent invention, that they were quote in fact, Arabs. Mike

579
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: Huckabee said, quote there's really no such thing as Palestinians.

580
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, And it's just it's a constant refrain from

581
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 3: anyone who is trying to deny not only you know,

582
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: the rights of people to the land that they currently

583
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: inhabit and or inhabited before they were ruthlessly ethnically cleansed. Yeah,

584
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: but it's a way to also dehumanize them in a

585
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 3: way where you go like, because you have no rightful claim, uh,

586
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: you know, because I'm going to deny you personhood. You know,

587
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 3: therefore your anger must come from another place. It's not

588
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: because you want your home back and you literally have

589
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 3: the key. It's because you hate Jews and and and

590
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 3: it's also just incredibly racist in a way that should

591
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: seem obvious to anybody, but like the kind of the

592
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 3: idea that you can just take a group of people,

593
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: you know, and steal their homes and go like, why

594
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: don't you just move to places with all the other

595
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 3: people like you, you know, like all the other Browns.

596
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: As if like an Arab is just this heterogeneous whatever

597
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: is it homogenous or religen homogeneous group of people. I

598
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: never said I was smart, you know, as if they're

599
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: they're all the same no matter where you go. And

600
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 3: it's just like so incredibly right. And you see this

601
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: and the again, and you know, I hate to keep

602
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: bringing up propaganda and hasbara, but like you see this

603
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: all the time and just kind of like the you know,

604
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 3: even in their like political cartoons, you'll see you know,

605
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 3: a Jewish person sitting on a chair that says Israel,

606
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: and you know there's all these other chairs that say

607
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 3: all the other Arab states, and a Palestinian will say, hey,

608
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: you're sitting in my chair, and the implication of that

609
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: cartoon being you can move to any of these other places,

610
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: and it's like you're sitting. It is actually you took

611
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: him out of a chair and he made that chair.

612
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 3: You can't just be like, no, it's okay if you're

613
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 3: a refugee, if there's someplace else, I think you look

614
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: like you should live. That's just racist, bro right, And.

615
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: I wonder, like how much because they're also even kind

616
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: of doing that And now I'm completely just conjecturing, but

617
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: like they're kind of doing that to themselves as Jews

618
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: by being like, oh all Jews, Yes, all Jews belong here,

619
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: one is all the same.

620
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 3: Yes, that is And that is you know, part of

621
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 3: the kind of like backdoor anti Semitism of Zionism, where

622
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: you you know, you look at it as you know, oh, well,

623
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 3: isn't it isn't it's got to be pro Jewish. It

624
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: seems to be about a project of Jewish control and

625
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 3: domination of the land of Palestine and you go like, yeah,

626
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 3: but it also is completely race against every Jew who's

627
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: not there, Yeah, and the Jews who are there too

628
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: as being kind of like just all the same and yeah.

629
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I I said about my reading this week excited,

630
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: just like I was like, Oh, all these books about

631
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: resistance can be blow by blow revolutionary action, right, and

632
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: there is going to be some of that. But I

633
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: had to read more than one Palestinian author making the case.

634
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: I understood why they had to make this case that

635
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: in fact they were Palestinian, like they the author, right,

636
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: and that's a thing they can be, and they can

637
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: trace their lineage back centuries in fucking Palestine like they

638
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: had to. I've never had to read a history book

639
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: by someone who has to first prove that they're allowed

640
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 2: to exist.

641
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 3: Right, to justify to justify their own history, like not

642
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: just not just like justify it, but like prove that

643
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 3: it's real. Because of the amount of propaganda surrounding the

644
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 3: idea of Palestine as a figment of the imagination of

645
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: these wily Arabs who just hate Jews.

646
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the the global implications of Israel was also

647
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 2: intentional and clear from the start. The framing of the

648
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: modern situation. Herzel wrote that the Jewish state would quote

649
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: form a part of a wall of defense for Europe

650
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: in Asia, an outpost of civilization against barbarism.

651
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: Yep. And these are words that to this day that

652
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 3: are repeated by people, you know, both Israeli officials and

653
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: people you know in the West talking about Israel as

654
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 3: this outpost for quote civilization, quote Western civilization specifically. It's

655
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 3: like that nothing has changed there except for like, it

656
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 3: depends now who you're talking to as to whether or

657
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 3: not you want to tell them that this is an

658
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: outpost for the West, or if you want to tell

659
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 3: them this is a gay haven for all right, you know,

660
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 3: as long as they don't want to get married, right,

661
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 3: as long as they don't want to get married there,

662
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: anything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the same shit, yep.

663
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: And of course, famously, the Zionist Project wasn't even sure

664
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: if they wanted Palestine. They floated at Argentina and some

665
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: other places that they could colonize instead, but they did. Yeah, Uganda,

666
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: they thought about you as well.

667
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, anywhere that had intentionous populations that they could right.

668
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the trouble with you know, colonization is like

669
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: part of the deal is they're going to be people there.

670
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, weird, No, Tara Knollys, is that what

671
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: you're saying.

672
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. You know, it's not this whole

673
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 3: idea of land without a people for people, that a

674
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: land not a thing.

675
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: Huh. Well, if they had known that, they probably would

676
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: have behaved very differently, because they certainly actedly it was

677
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: without a land.

678
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 3: No, they very much knew. And that's the most exactly

679
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: intense part about the whole thing. Yeah, they very much knew.

680
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: So before the BRIT's takeover. Well to Palestine at the

681
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: dawn of the twentieth century under Ottoman rule was an

682
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: agrarian society that was rapidly modernizing. New schools were opening

683
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: all over the place. Ottoman state schools were opening, as

684
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: well as religious schools started by both Christians and Jews.

685
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 2: The overwhelming majority of Jews at this point are Palestinian Jews.

686
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: I've read both that they were three percent of the population.

687
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: I've also read like up to seven percent of the population,

688
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 2: depending on which book I'm reading. I have never studied

689
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: a subject for this that I've run across. More conflicting everything.

690
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, it is. I always just kind of

691
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 3: take the average between the two.

692
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: I know, so somewhere between three and seven percent of

693
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: the population, yeah, which is a higher percentage than the

694
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: percentage of the people in the US who are Jewish,

695
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: which is two point four percent.

696
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that. And then you know, in terms

697
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: of the world's point two percent like.

698
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: That, which kind of goes to say that you can

699
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 2: have a culture and influence in your society with only

700
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: three percent of the population.

701
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah for sure. And it also is

702
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 3: you know, I think there's an internationalist argument to be

703
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: made too, for the idea of you know, eight people

704
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: self doing self determination without stealing someone else's land, you know,

705
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 3: not to say that, you know, obviously white American Jews

706
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: don't benefit from like white supremacy. I mean, you know,

707
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: of course that is also the case, but yeah, you know,

708
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 3: it is.

709
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the Palestinian Jews living in Palestine were largely

710
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: ultra Orthodox and non Zionist. By eighteen ninety seven, these

711
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: early Zionists and the Proto ones before them, they only

712
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: had started nineteen settlements with a few thousands Zionist Jews,

713
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 2: as compared to like. For example, Jerusalem in eighteen ninety

714
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: seven had twenty eight thousand Jews. Electricity and roads and

715
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 2: railways are starting to creep into Palestine. With modernization came

716
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: greater centralization of power into the hands of a few rich,

717
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: elite Palestinian families. This does not make the place exceptional,

718
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 2: It makes it typical, especially for an Ottoman region. Yes, Meanwhile,

719
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 2: popular struggle against Zionism is already happening on the ground.

720
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 2: In nineteen oh eight, folks from the village Kafur Kama

721
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: tried to get their land back and a bunch of

722
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 2: anti Zionist newspapers got started in Palestine. And a lot

723
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: of this resistance is essentially nationalist. It is also opposed

724
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: to Ottoman rule. And you start having nationalist political parties.

725
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: Right, and it's I don't know, and maybe you can

726
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 3: tell me. But around this time is the kind of

727
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: the birth Arab nationalism or is this proto Arab national

728
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 3: It seems to be the beginning of Palestinian and Arab

729
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 3: nationalism seem to be very intertwined, is the best as

730
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: I understand, So I believe that these national parties are

731
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 3: also you have Arab nationalism trying to get out from

732
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: under Ottoman rule, right and like, and the resistance against

733
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: Zionis those happening wasn't a we don't like foreigners or

734
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: we don't like the Jews thing. It was a I

735
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: was living here, but then the Ottoman centralized landownership, and

736
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 3: so suddenly some rich assholes sold my land to foreign

737
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 3: rich asshole, and now the Zionists are living in my house. Yeah,

738
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: here and there. Sales to foreign Jews had started to

739
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 3: be blocked, but Britain basically kept being like, no, you

740
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: better let it keep happening, putting pressure on the Ottomans

741
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: about it. But eventually the Ottoman Empire stopped all land

742
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: transfer to feign Jews nearly twentieth century. Nineteen oh two

743
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: or nineteen oh five, I don't know, I've read both.

744
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: We'll say nineteen oh three and a half.

745
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, April nineteen oh three. Yeah, the Ottoman Empire was

746
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: falling apart and fast. The Balkans and Libya fell out

747
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: of its control in the nineteen tens, and then, of

748
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: course famously the whole thing collapsed the.

749
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: End of World War One.

750
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 2: That's right, World War One hits the Ottoman Empire really hard,

751
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 2: half a million people in the Empire starved. Between nineteen

752
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: fifteen and nineteen eighteen, three million people die violently, mostly civilians,

753
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: mostly Armenians, Assyrians and other Christians, facing genocide at the

754
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 2: hands of the Ottomans. World War One reached Palisine itself

755
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventeen, with the British on one side and

756
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: the Ottomans backed by the Germans and the Austrians on

757
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: the other. The Ottomans cracked down hard on nationalism during

758
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: the war. They started hanging nationalist leaders in the street

759
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: because Arab nationalists were siding with Britain out of their

760
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: mutual enemy, the Ottomans and the Ottomans were conscripting Palestinians

761
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: to fight the war. The Allies, slowly, through shelling from

762
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: coast and trench warfare, invaded Palestine and they conquered it.

763
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: Much like you can be the conqueror of these ads.

764
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: Whatever they're selling. If you buy it, you have conquered it.

765
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what money does. It conquers. I'm going to

766
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: go conquer myself some double cheeseburgers at some point. I'm hungry.

767
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, me too, probably need a snack during

768
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 2: break between recording and they didna yet. But here's the ADS.

769
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: And we're back.

770
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: So did you know that if the British Empire tells

771
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: you a thing that you can't always trust that they'll

772
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: do what they say they'll do.

773
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 3: I refuse to believe that the British have never lied.

774
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: They've only accidentally told a falsehood.

775
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: They sometimes tell the truth when they say we're going

776
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: to do a really bad thing.

777
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's most of the time.

778
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: So in nineteen sixteen they said they told a lie,

779
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 2: which is that they made promises to the Arab nationalist

780
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: leaders across the Arab world, basically being like, hey, we've

781
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: got your back, don't worry, help us against the Ottomans,

782
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: will totally give you independence.

783
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: Yep.

784
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: But then on November two, nineteen seventeen, the British Secretary

785
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: of State for Foreign Affairs, a man known to history

786
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: as Arthur James Balfour Balfall, made what was known as

787
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: the Balfour Declaration. Now, I wish I could do a

788
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 2: British accent, I can't. I reclaire basically on the name

789
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: of my good family, His Majesty's government. I literally, if

790
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: I had a gun to my head and had to

791
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: speak British, I'd be like, oh, and then hope.

792
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: For the best.

793
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: Is a message from the Queen. Let's figures at the

794
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: social scene. As long as this is a crass song,

795
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: I can do it.

796
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: That's great.

797
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: Thanks. Anyway, His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment

798
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 2: in Palistine of a national home for the Jewish people,

799
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement

800
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 2: of this object. It being clearly understood that nothing shall

801
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights

802
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: of existing non Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights

803
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. Yeah,

804
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: a lot of take.

805
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 3: On those words. Those words very important, very very important.

806
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: One you can don't be afraid of, I believe you

807
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: call them full stops over there. Don't be afraid of

808
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 2: ending a sentence and starting a new one.

809
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, just go for it.

810
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: I was going to say that they were right about

811
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 2: the ballfour decoration, but actually no, that's all lies too.

812
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: They don't nothing shall be done to prejudice the civil

813
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: and religious rights of existing non Jewish communities in Palestine.

814
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 2: That is not what's going to happen.

815
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Well they also nothing will be done to

816
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: not prejudice the civil rights. Yeah, it works both ways.

817
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: The point is nothing will be done and eventually we'll

818
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 3: leave and then yeah.

819
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, notice that there's no mention of Palestinians or Arabs

820
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: once again. Yeah, non Jewish communities. Yeah, yeah, that is.

821
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: And I think it's also important to point out there

822
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: too that like the lobbying done on behalf of the

823
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: you know, early Zionists in you know, uh, Britain was substantial,

824
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: at least the very much in comparison to the completely

825
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 2: non existent Arab lobby of trying to lobby the British

826
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: to you know, to not do that. Yeah, and uh.

827
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: And it's also important to like, if you look at

828
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: early Zionism from not from the perspective of like today's

829
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 2: like modern Israeli, but from the perspective of a a

830
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: rich European guy going, oh, I'm gonna call me up

831
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: some land there, then it all kind of makes a

832
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: lot a lot more sense. And I think it's like

833
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: you can put it in a perspective that you completely understand,

834
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: as opposed to kind of this like I don't know

835
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: the view of the Proto or the early Zonus is

836
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: kind of being we kind of put like a modern

837
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: spin on it as like they were all necessarily, you know,

838
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: doing it for these reasons of leftist self determination. And

839
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 2: this is not the full story. No, that's a good point.

840
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 2: A lot of these, a lot of the initial like hey,

841
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: even like the proto Zionis stuff is like a specific

842
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: millionaire will be like, hey, Autumnus, can I please buy

843
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: some stuff?

844
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: You know? Right? Yeah, yeah, we're doing a thing. Let

845
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 3: me buy some air.

846
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so people have said that the UK did

847
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 2: this because they loved Jews and wanted a homeland for them,

848
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: or that they hated Jews and wanted them out. I

849
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: think that the iron wall to keep out the barbarians

850
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: is the motivation here. That seems to be the the

851
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: one that makes the most sense to me.

852
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I you know, I think there's a lot

853
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: of like there's a lot of reasons why Zionism was

854
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 3: appealing to like the non Jewish European population, and I

855
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: think it includes all these things, you know, And but

856
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 3: you have to remember that like as much as the

857
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: British were and you know, probably still are kind of

858
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 3: anti Semitic, you have to remember that they were also

859
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 3: you know, coming at this from a point of view

860
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 3: of like, you know, they were also incredibly Orientalists and

861
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: the amount of you know, you know, the devil you

862
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: know versus the devil you don't know, I suppose, And

863
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 3: so they weren't looking at you know, the arab As

864
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: like a better option than the Jew totally they were.

865
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with one sentence, that guy fucked over the

866
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: entire region, if not world, and doomed it to conflict

867
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: for at least the next century.

868
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was uh, you know he cut

869
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: his teeth where Oxford.

870
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: He had been named Bloody Balfour after his five years

871
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 2: of ruling England's first colony, Ireland.

872
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 3: Oh there we go, well, well, well.

873
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: And it was his government that had written the Act

874
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: in nineteen oh five that kept Jews from Russia fleeing

875
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 2: Pograms from settling in the uk Ah.

876
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 3: This is a fun guy. Yeah, you can tell, you know,

877
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: Bloody Balfour. I think I was right when I said

878
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: the British or a little anti Semitic a was right.

879
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 2: And the comparisons I I already knew why, like Ireland

880
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: and Palestine like get along and throw down together. But

881
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 2: after researching this period in particular, I'm like, oh, I

882
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: really got it. Yeah, it's like pretty immediately they're like,

883
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: all right, well, we're we just kind of lost Ireland.

884
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 2: Let's move all of this literal same people over, the

885
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: black and tans, over to Palestine and start sucking up

886
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: people there too.

887
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and then you see, you know a lot

888
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 3: of Hey, that black and Tan idea seems pretty smart. Yeah,

889
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 3: you know, and kind of like once the state of

890
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 3: Israel is established.

891
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

892
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

893
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: So Britain held Palestine after the war, before nineteen twenty two.

894
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 2: This is an informal occupation, but right away they started

895
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: working directly to help the Zionists, and right away the

896
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: Palestinians started getting together to try and resist. And the

897
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 2: main form of resistance in this very early stage of

898
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: British rule were these Muslim Christian brotherhoods. Folks were like,

899
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: it is unite or fail, so they work together. They

900
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 2: used a cross within a crescent as their symbol. It

901
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 2: gets so fucking heartwarming, like they would have religious tolerance

902
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: and multi faith acceptance was has been a part of

903
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: that Palestinian national identity since the very beginning. And there's

904
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 2: all of these accounts, both from back then and now

905
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: about like Christians reciting the Muslim call to prayer, Muslims

906
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 2: presenting at Christian events, and along the way, at least

907
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: in the beginning of all of this, they worked to

908
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: make sure that the hatred of Zionist Jews did not

909
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: spill over into Palestinian Jews. The First Palestinian Congress of

910
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: February nineteen nineteen included in its anti Zionist manifesto a

911
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 2: welcome to those Jews quote among us who have been Arabicized,

912
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: who have been living in our province since before the war.

913
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 2: They are as we are, and their loyalties are our own.

914
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 2: I think the solidarity gets real messy throughout the twentieth century,

915
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 2: and I've read at least that since the creation of

916
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: the Israel nineteen forty eight, that the solidarity was broken

917
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: and that the Palestinian.

918
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 3: Jewish identity gets rare or non existent. Oh, I mean, yeah,

919
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 3: essentially non existent. And it's like, you know, it's one

920
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 3: of the sad things about the whole thing is because

921
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: you know, you you see the pull of you know, Zionism,

922
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 3: and just like the Jewish nationalism is being I mean

923
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: it's not. It's it's hard to resist. Yeah, you know,

924
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: especially once the conflict starts becoming this constantly increasing cycle

925
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 3: of violence, and as it becomes more and more clear

926
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: among the you know, Palestinian population that you know, this

927
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 3: is what they're going to do, that the Zionists are

928
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: going to take over, and and yeah, so it is

929
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 3: it's very sad. You maybe you found something, but I've

930
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 3: I've yet to find a heartwarming story of Jewish resistance

931
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 3: to Zionism within Palestine.

932
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: I mean, there's only the like individual stories like what

933
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 2: we talked about last Deceummer. There's actually one story that

934
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 2: I for this part, but it got caught because I

935
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: did not get to the Nakba for this week's episode.

936
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: There's a story about one of the the the niece

937
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 2: of one of these like main militia leaders of who

938
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: later became a very important I forget his name, but

939
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 2: one of the big Zionist assholes behind the Knackba. When

940
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 2: they're planning to invade Yafa, which is one of the

941
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 2: big and most important fights in the Nakba, his niece

942
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 2: escapes and goes into Palestine to go tell one of

943
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: the women leaders of one of the like all women's militias,

944
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: the chrysanthemum flowers to be like, hey, they're coming. And

945
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 2: along the way she like rips her leg open really

946
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 2: bad on barbed wire and has spent like three days

947
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 2: living with this woman like recovering before she can before

948
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 2: she can go home. But that's like, that's all I

949
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 2: got for heartwarming stories during that time.

950
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, it's such a bummer. Yeah, but

951
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 3: if you're looking for, you know a lot of those

952
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 3: heartwarming stories, you really have to look towards like internationalists,

953
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 3: Jews and totally you know, Europe and Russia and whatnot.

954
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: I'll still take Christian Muslim solidarity too, you know.

955
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 3: I like it. It's great. I just you know that

956
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,919
Speaker 3: there's there's a part of me that's just like, why

957
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 3: is nationalism so appealing them? It's just power now, yeah,

958
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 3: you mean we will be the privileged class. Yeah, all right. Yeah, And.

959
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: These cross religious alliances set about to systematically prevent the

960
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: foreign occupiers from claiming it was a religious issue. Specifically,

961
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 2: when the British put a Zionist in charge of the region,

962
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: Palestinians resigned from government positions from the British government, you know,

963
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: the local thing in protests in protest of that, and

964
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: they also went on strike. There was petitions, protests spread

965
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: and most of these protests started off nonviolent and symbolic,

966
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: and they were met with bullets by the British, and

967
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: a lot of ways you can kind of say that

968
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: the cycle of violence of actually starts with the British

969
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: killing nonviolent Araba protesters. But students and peasants and tribal

970
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: leaders and Christians and Muslims and are all protesting alongside

971
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: one another. Sometimes they're being gunned down at funeral celebrations

972
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: by the British. They're not entirely nonviolent. Of course, armed

973
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: resistance to the settlements is ongoing, as is the expulsion

974
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: of Palestinians from their homes that are sold out from

975
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: underneath them. Tens of thousands of people are homeless in

976
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,919
Speaker 2: this period. They are like forced out of their homes

977
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 2: in this period. Meanwhile, the Zionists are forming defense organizations

978
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: and changing all the land ownership laws and shit like that,

979
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 2: like basically just putting themselves into all the local government

980
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 2: positions in order to make everything work out for them.

981
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 2: And as you pointed out, at this point, people still

982
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: don't know, Oh, they're trying to take over completely. You

983
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 2: know that's going to come in the mid thirties. Then

984
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty two, Britain gets handed the country more

985
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 2: formally by this brand new thing, the League of Nations,

986
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 2: which is later it becomes the UN, and the region

987
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: becomes known as Mandatory Palestine. This is a perfect example

988
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 2: of the stuff that I would always like not and

989
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I totally knew it. Mandatory Palestine means yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

990
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 2: I know what you mean. It's like like they ha, yeah, yeah, stuck.

991
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 3: This Palestine is mandatory. Yeah, it will be on the test.

992
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 3: If you do not do this Palestine, you will be

993
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 3: fired or something like that. I don't know.

994
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: After World War One, this new League of Nations created

995
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: a mandate system that was supposed to kind of be

996
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: an anti colony in which colonial forces were supposed to

997
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 2: act as stewards of local administration. I'm going to use

998
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: a lot of supposed to here. Non annexation of the

999
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 2: territory and developing the territory for the benefit of its

1000
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: native people's were core to the ostensible purpose of these mandates.

1001
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 2: It didn't work that way anywhere, not just in Palestine,

1002
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: it was by and large the usual colonial administration, just

1003
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: dressed up a bit to be like, oh, we're like

1004
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: the anti colonial administration that still tells me what to

1005
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 2: do and shoots too.

1006
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1007
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: But in Palestine it's extra funny because the people it

1008
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: from the gate was supposed to represent and care for

1009
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 2: was the Zionist project, not the Palestinians. These Class A mandates,

1010
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 2: which included Palestine, I think this is all of the

1011
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 2: Arab the former Ottoman areas are supposed to be under

1012
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: a mandated occupation until they were ready to stand alone

1013
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 2: as their own nation. Which is funny because everyone kept

1014
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 2: saying that Palestine doesn't exist as a nation, even though

1015
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: like it was mandated to become one.

1016
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,479
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also, you know, like on the passport of

1017
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 3: many of Palestine's first prime ministers, Yeah, it'll show their

1018
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 3: face and their name. Where are they from Palestine? Yeah.

1019
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 2: The mandate for Palestine included the ball four Declaration verbatim.

1020
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: It went on to erase the connect of the non

1021
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 2: Jewish people from the land entirely. So as much as

1022
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 2: I hate the British, it was the League of Nations

1023
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: that really handed Palestine to the Zionists. Formally, yeah, yeah,

1024
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: that goddamn League of Nations. They didn't do shit anyway.

1025
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: Now they're the reason Hitler.

1026
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 3: Or something probably.

1027
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 2: Have a mostly I can slightly more than not okay,

1028
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: what I do instead of totally just nodding along when

1029
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: people talk about things that I don't know all about

1030
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 2: is I'll know like one thing about that thing, so

1031
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: I'll be like, yeah, oh yeah, And the League of

1032
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: Nations was totally responsible. Now I can't think ofbout anything

1033
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 2: off the top of that, but yeah, they like didn't

1034
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 2: stop Italy from colonizing somewhere.

1035
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 3: Also, I also nod along, and I just and I

1036
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 3: just go uh huh. I also knew that.

1037
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always yeah. I was born knowing that absolutely,

1038
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: and most of the Ottoman Empire was carved up to

1039
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 2: mandates of France and the UK. Saudi Arabia and Yemen

1040
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 2: were independent, and at least Saudi Arabia, I just like

1041
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 2: literally don't have the research about Yemen. A least Saudi

1042
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: Arabia was given this independence by Britain and was therefore

1043
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 2: pretty beholden to the UK. So the other Arab countries

1044
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 2: weren't really in the best position to immediately support any

1045
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 2: resistance to the British mandate. The Arab people of these

1046
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: other nations supported it, but the institutions of power felt

1047
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: like their hands were tied. Immediately in Palestine, general strikes breakout.

1048
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: Most of the rebellion was what you would call popular struggle,

1049
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 2: like mass direct action, rather than armed struggle. Even the

1050
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: British knew it. To quote author Mason B. Kimsea from

1051
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: the book Popular Resistance in Palestine, the British admitted in

1052
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: private correspondence that the Arab leadership was pushing for popular

1053
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 2: resistance and resisting calls for armed rebellion. But by nineteen

1054
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 2: twenty two, this early resistance fell apart. After the failure

1055
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 2: of the nineteen twenty to nineteen twenty two revolt, the

1056
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: Palestinian resistance took on a more muted character. Instead of

1057
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 2: demanding independence, folks were like, well, how about some representation

1058
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 2: and change to some of the laws that currently say

1059
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: that Zionists get everything. This didn't work. And I read

1060
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 2: two different Palestinian historians talking about this next period in

1061
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties, and they wholly disagreed about what happened.

1062
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: Like fundamental like ones anyway, I think because popular struggle

1063
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: isn't noticed as much by history because it's not attached

1064
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: to a political party, ideological position, or like a set

1065
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 2: of ruling families. But both of these historians, who disagreed

1066
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: about what was happening, agreed on one point. During the

1067
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: crucial period of nineteen twenty to nineteen thirty five, resistance

1068
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 2: was hampered by the fact that Palestine, left over from

1069
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 2: its rule by the Ottomans, was set up very hierarchically

1070
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 2: and patriarchically, so that institutions of power that they built

1071
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 2: were centralized and non democratic. This left it vulnerable to

1072
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: a split between the elites and the general public, and

1073
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 2: between one set of elites and another. Top down institutions

1074
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: like this, according to these Palestinian historians, very vulnerable to

1075
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: divide and conquer of an empire. Yeah, the Zionists started

1076
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 2: to build a specific Jewish controlled sector of society, like

1077
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: an economic sector of society, under the slogan a Vota

1078
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 2: evrett or Hebrew labor. A lot of the early Zionists

1079
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 2: were leftists or called themselves such I hate gatekeeping, but

1080
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: I might keep them on this.

1081
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 3: This is this is one of those things where you

1082
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 3: can't help yourself, but gatekeep a little bit just because

1083
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 3: you're just like, I don't know how you can you know,

1084
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 3: do the I am a socialist thing while at the

1085
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 3: same time, you know, knowingly taking part in acts that

1086
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 3: include well, ethnic cleansing.

1087
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: Here is where I am not about to call them Nazis.

1088
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: Sure they were national socialists. They were nationalists and socialists

1089
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: they were not. When they go together, it means something

1090
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 2: different in different content testes. Yes, yes, But once they'd

1091
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 2: come to Palestine to join the Zionist project, they dropped

1092
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 2: solidarity along class lines instead of national lines, which was

1093
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 2: the overall internationalist and leftist project to set up labor

1094
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 2: unions that advocated for Hebrew labor and for having its

1095
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 2: own working class, not even work alongside Arab workers. So

1096
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 2: it wasn't even just like the only represent the Jewish

1097
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: workers and specifically the Zionist ones, not the Arab ones

1098
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's like an entire which is of course

1099
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 2: class collaboration because they're working with the bosses to make

1100
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: sure that no Arab people are hired. Right anyway, So

1101
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to gate keep them on their socialism a

1102
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 2: little bit, yeah, is what I'm saying.

1103
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 3: For being that racist, yeah, and it's yeah, it's hard

1104
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 3: not to do. And I also, you know, like this

1105
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 3: is the thing about also at the time, the general

1106
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 3: popularity of the idea of socialism and the way it

1107
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 3: can so easily turn into like just your regular average

1108
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 3: Western chauvinism.

1109
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, totally. And so a ton of

1110
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: capital came in from abroad to support this separate Jewish

1111
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 2: economic sphere. This was like basically how they colonized. I mean,

1112
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 2: they were buying land and setting up colonies right in

1113
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: settler colonialism, but by creating this entirely separate economic sphere,

1114
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: they're buying up land everywhere they can. By the mid

1115
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, the separate sphere is more economically powerful than

1116
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 2: the Palestinian economy, despite Jews being a very small minority population.

1117
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 2: Still and this we don't interact with the Arabs thing.

1118
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 2: This absolute non integration policy is what so clearly distinguishes

1119
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 2: the Zionists as a settler colonial project, rather than people

1120
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: fleeing religious persecution who are, like right, hoping to keep

1121
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 2: their religion and culture some autonomy wherever they land. One

1122
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 2: group did try to do actual leftism for a couple

1123
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: decades the Palestinian Communist Party sick. It started off primarily

1124
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 2: Jewish and anti Zionist, it allowed both Palestinians and Zionists

1125
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 2: in and it was actively recruiting Arabs. By nineteen forty three,

1126
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: the sort of internal contradictions within it were just too much,

1127
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 2: and it split into pro Zionist and anti Zionist factions,

1128
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 2: which honestly makes sense. I could imagine just being like,

1129
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: we tried a certain type of political pluralism.

1130
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 3: But y'all are Zionists. It's not working. It's a hard

1131
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 3: thing about a big tent. You know. It's like, you know,

1132
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 3: I kind of some clowns out. Yeah, exactly what democratic

1133
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 3: party doesn't work either, you know, the big tent. We want,

1134
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 3: you know, people who like abortion and people who want

1135
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 3: women all to you know, be second classes.

1136
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, big ten. Yeah exactly. There's like there's certain lines

1137
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: that are too far, you know. There is like even

1138
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 2: if the ten is open sides, there's still people who

1139
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 2: are on the opposite hill.

1140
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Yes.

1141
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 2: During the nineteen twenties, it was still in vogue to

1142
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 2: talk positively about colonialism, so the Zionist and Palestine were

1143
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: really blunt about it being a colonial project. Yep, this

1144
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: revision of zionist guy zeb Zabatinsky was really mask off

1145
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: about it to the point I think where like other

1146
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 2: people were like a little bit like, hey, you keep

1147
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 2: keeping could you put your mask back up?

1148
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 3: You know?

1149
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: He wrote basically is like, well, of course they're going

1150
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,919
Speaker 2: to fight back. They're colonized people. Like he honestly looked

1151
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 2: at the situation and was like, Oh, all the following

1152
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 2: bad things are going to happen, but we're the good guys,

1153
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 2: and I don't care.

1154
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry, it's Jabatinsky. Okay, yeah, thank you. Yeah.

1155
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why, as he said, quote Zionist colonization can

1156
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 2: pursue and develop only under the protection of a power

1157
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 2: that is independent of the native population, behind an iron

1158
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 2: wall which the native population cannot breach.

1159
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just there.

1160
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 2: I know, one hundred years later, they're just describing, Hey,

1161
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 2: this is what we're gonna do, you know, like starting

1162
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 2: to that diary entry in eighteen ninety five where he's like, Oh,

1163
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 2: we're gonna kick out all the pores, and and.

1164
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 3: There's just there's just so much revisionism when it comes

1165
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 3: to the you know, the founders of Israel and the

1166
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 3: founders of Zionism, where you just like people act as

1167
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:42,439
Speaker 3: if Zionism was the movement to uh make a gay

1168
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 3: haven in Tel Aviv.

1169
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just like it it's not what that is.

1170
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 3: It's like this, it's just so it's it's just it's

1171
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 3: so insane to believe the amount of people who have

1172
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 3: just bought into this stuff. And you just especially when

1173
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 3: you read Jobatinsky, because this guy was just a open

1174
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 3: races and like kind of hated Jews. Like if you

1175
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 3: read some of the quotes from this guy, just so

1176
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 3: you can feel the resentment of Jews, like you feel

1177
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 3: him not believing, like not being radical in that for what, No,

1178
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 3: that Jews need to be remade as a people, that

1179
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 3: Jews are a weak people, that Jews are essentially just

1180
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 3: built wrong and they need to be rebuilt into this

1181
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 3: you know, militant desert people.

1182
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So is this the guy behind the like because

1183
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 2: there was the attitude of like, yeah, Jews being like

1184
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 2: small and weak, and so then there's this like masculinization

1185
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 2: of Jews where like, no, we are big and strong

1186
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 2: and patriarchal and totally don't listen to our mothers anymore.

1187
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, and is also the like ideological founder

1188
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 3: of like the La Coute party and uh, you know

1189
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 3: which is like the right wing party that you know

1190
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 3: net and Yahoo is a part of in Israel. Like

1191
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 3: you know, this is this is this is their guy.

1192
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 3: And you just like just the way that people kind

1193
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 3: of ret coon early Zionism to be nothing. But like,

1194
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 3: you know, just it's all these Jewish refugees. We're just

1195
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 3: like we're just trying to live here. Don't hurt us Arabs. Yeah,

1196
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 3: and you just read the writings of Jabutinsky or you know,

1197
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 3: you you read anyone from this period who was taking

1198
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 3: a leadership role in the colonization of Palestine, and they

1199
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 3: are saying, let's go colonize Palestine. And even you know,

1200
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 3: you talked about the letter to Yusuf Dia or like

1201
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 3: Yusuf DA's letter to Hertzel and his you know Hertzel's

1202
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 3: letter back. He's using all the same tropes that any

1203
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 3: colonists has said about why we it is good for

1204
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 3: us to colonize an indigenous people's land. It's like no,

1205
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 3: we're gonna bring We're gonna bring culture, yeah to these

1206
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 3: savage Yes, we're they're you know, this is this will

1207
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 3: be good for them, this will you know this, this

1208
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 3: will trickle down economics.

1209
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 2: Them essentially, which is like, ugh, so interesting about because

1210
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 2: he's saying that to them while he's privately being like,

1211
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 2: I don't care about them. They're gonna get nothing, right, yeah,

1212
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 2: And which is even then, you know the rich are

1213
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 2: saying when they say that things are going to trickle

1214
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 2: down to us, they know it's not. They just don't care.

1215
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, they just you know, if it'll it'll if

1216
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 3: it'll buy them some time, yeah, then they'll do it.

1217
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 2: And so throughout the nineteen twenties, Zionists are moving to Palestine,

1218
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 2: they're buying up land, they're displacing people everywhere, and they're

1219
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 2: talking about openly as a colonial project. And for most

1220
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 2: of the time, the Palestinian elite are busy asking the

1221
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 2: British really nicely for things to improve, which was and

1222
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 2: this will shock you entirely ineffectual. When I say the

1223
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: Palestinian elite, I don't mean like, ah, he's like rich.

1224
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 2: I mean on some level, I'm saying, like the rich

1225
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 2: people in this society, but it's like they're not the

1226
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 2: powerful people in the society. At this point, Zionis are

1227
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 2: already the powerful people in society. The historians are writing

1228
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 2: about it this way to distinguish between sort of the

1229
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 2: working class and the popular revolt that is happening. And

1230
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 2: all of this sets us up for the next large revolt,

1231
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 2: the al Barock Uprising, which we will talk about as

1232
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 2: well as the Great Revolt of nineteen thirty six on Wednesday.

1233
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 3: Oh all right, stick around for the exciting conclusion of Palestine.

1234
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 3: I know, sorry, they're in satisfying.

1235
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 2: There is so much beautiful resistance that happens during all

1236
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 2: of this time, and it's like, and it's so interesting

1237
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 2: to me how different researching this has been from a

1238
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: lot of what I researched wards a lot of the

1239
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 2: exact same stuff, like trade union's doing a general strike,

1240
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 2: and like, all of these things are happening. Because of

1241
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 2: the dense cloud of propaganda that people have to work through.

1242
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 2: It's harder to just come in with the beautiful adventure story,

1243
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, it's harder to come in and just

1244
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 2: be like hell yeah, and this guy took to the

1245
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 2: hills and got grenades and blew up. People were trying

1246
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 2: to kill him, you know, which is going to happen

1247
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: in the next story, but there's not.

1248
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 3: Oh hell yeah, I'm stoked on that. But you know, yeah,

1249
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 3: it is and it's interesting too. You know, I'm obviously

1250
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 3: not a historian, and I all of my history book

1251
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 3: reading is via audiobook, but you know it is. I

1252
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 3: do find it fascinating the amount of kind of like

1253
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 3: conflicting information that you find and kind of retelling this story.

1254
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: And I feel like that is one of the things

1255
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 3: about this particular story is you've got to fight through

1256
01:10:54,160 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 3: a lot of revisionism and misinformation. And that's why people

1257
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 3: like jab Atinski for me, is just an interesting fella

1258
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 3: because of his kind of revision to scionism and whatnot.

1259
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 2: You can go to the direct sources, you can read

1260
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 2: the primary sources. It's all recent enough at least for

1261
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,480
Speaker 2: that at least for them someone they believe.

1262
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,600
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, but it's got to be on

1263
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 3: audiobook for me to read.

1264
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: I am no. I actually do all my fiction reading

1265
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 2: now on audiobook form because I have to do so much.

1266
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:29,919
Speaker 2: I have to do so much reading for these podcasts

1267
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 2: that I can't use audio for it, and it's like

1268
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 2: hard Like actual books, you've got a high I have

1269
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 2: to be the person to translate these things into other things.

1270
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is the best job anyone's ever had.

1271
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 2: My job rules, Yeah, it's pretty sick. I hang out

1272
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 2: with my dog and I read history books. But if

1273
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 2: people like getting information in an audio format and are

1274
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 2: concerned about the dense fog of propaganda around this issue,

1275
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 2: do you have any them?

1276
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 3: I have one suggestion. Listen to Bad Hasbara, the World's

1277
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 3: most moral podcast. It is a weekly sometimes twice weekly

1278
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 3: podcast where it's a comedy podcast where me and my

1279
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 3: sometimes co host Daniel Matte and our huge array of

1280
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 3: guests go through some Israeli propaganda and make fun of

1281
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,799
Speaker 3: it because oh my god, do they think we're that stupid?

1282
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 3: And it's a lot of fun. It's a very cathartic podcast. Then,

1283
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 3: you know, the more people I get to listen to it,

1284
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 3: the more I can live like a life like yours

1285
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 3: in which I could just stay at home reading history books.

1286
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't have to have you know,

1287
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 3: ten jobs the way I have now, So please listen

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Speaker 3: to it.

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01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that.

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01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 3: Please.

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01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 2: The secret to live in the high life off of podcasting. Yeah,

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01:12:55,120 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 2: it's living in West Virginia mortgage is less than you're

1293
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 2: like anyone I know's rent.

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01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 3: But I.

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01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 2: Mean it's wonderful here. Everything, everything's great, Okay, but yeah,

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01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 2: and I've been I've been listening to your podcast while

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01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,560
Speaker 2: building out my van. Actually it's been a good h

1298
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 2: and So it's a personal seal of approval and we

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01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: will buy it back on Wednesday, talking about this again.

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01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

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01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,439
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1302
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1303
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1304
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:47,480
Speaker 1: your podcasts.