Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio podcast. All Right,
Speaker 1: so on this week's Wine About It Thursday Therapy, We've
Speaker 1: got His name is Phil Yagoda. So he's a retired
Speaker 1: Wall Street executive who has been happily married for twenty
Speaker 1: five years. Has created a website he hopes will be
Speaker 1: a top destination for people going through divorces and breakups.
Speaker 1: Phil Yagoda spent more than two decades on Wall Street,
Speaker 1: including a stint as a managing director at a bank.
Speaker 1: He launched The Exit in December with content focus on
Speaker 1: what couples can expect to encounter emotionally and financially during
Speaker 1: a divorce, and how to navigate the often painful twists
Speaker 1: and turns. Let's get him up, Okay. I am so
Speaker 1: excited to have you on because I really can could
Speaker 1: have used this website about two years ago when I
Speaker 1: was going through my divorce. But I'm just when I
Speaker 1: was reading the breakdown, I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: married guy twenty five years he is doing you know
Speaker 1: this this website called the Exit dot com. So I'm curious.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you've experienced probably through friends and family,
Speaker 1: but have you experienced a divorce personally, No, Um, honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm one of the lucky ones. I found my best friend,
Speaker 1: my soulmate, my rock, my everything, um, twenty five years
Speaker 1: ago and we've been together ever since. Um, fact, we
Speaker 1: just had our engagement anniversary. I'm the one who remembers. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's really cute that a guy remember is an engagement anniversary,
Speaker 1: because I don't know many guys that would remember that
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. My wife's like, all right, enough, it's
Speaker 1: not a real anniversary, but to me, to me, it
Speaker 1: really is. It's, um, you know, the day that you
Speaker 1: kind of came together. And I was like, that was
Speaker 1: one of the most nervous days I ever had, because
Speaker 1: up to that point, you know, you're just young, you're
Speaker 1: going out, you're doing whatever, and you know you want
Speaker 1: to settle down with the girl your dreams, and you
Speaker 1: hope she said yes. In fact, it was really cold
Speaker 1: and she took a couple of minutes. I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, either say yes or no. But how old
Speaker 1: were you when you got engaged. I was twenty four, Okay,
Speaker 1: so young, which is actually, you know, amazing that you
Speaker 1: guys are still married to this day too, because I
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of young marriages could potentially also
Speaker 1: end in divorce. Yeah, I mean, I think when when
Speaker 1: you look at marriages from any different standpoint, you basically
Speaker 1: you're taking two people from two different backgrounds, from two
Speaker 1: different states. In this situation, I was from New York,
Speaker 1: she's from Atlanta. Um. You know, two different sets of parents,
Speaker 1: two different sets of growing up like everything that shapes you. Um,
Speaker 1: you went to different schools, different whatever. Um. And to
Speaker 1: be able to stay together through all that really is
Speaker 1: as it's a real fat I'm not to say like
Speaker 1: it's always been great times you have or whatever, but
Speaker 1: that's part of any relationship for sure. So how did
Speaker 1: the exit come about them? If this is something that's
Speaker 1: I mean, you seem to be in a very happy,
Speaker 1: happy marriage and you know, for the last twenty five years,
Speaker 1: So how did this idea even like come to fruition?
Speaker 1: So in my prior life, I was a Wall Street guy,
Speaker 1: you know, it was very good math, all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, and really always was there to help people.
Speaker 1: And I get a lot of phone calls from friends, family,
Speaker 1: and there was one in particular that this person called
Speaker 1: and I was about to walk into a meeting and
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, you know, Mark, I gotta play it back,
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, no, you don't understand. She said
Speaker 1: she wants a divorce. I'm like, all right, that's horrible.
Speaker 1: But I'm literally like walking into this thing. I gotta
Speaker 1: call you back, giving an hour, hour and a half.
Speaker 1: Just look on the internet. Each state's different, and I'll
Speaker 1: play back two minutes later. Like now I'm already in
Speaker 1: this conference room. He calls again. He's like, there is
Speaker 1: nothing on the internet. There's only divorced lawyer ads. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I got to call it back. Let me just step
Speaker 1: through this. Later on that day when I got back
Speaker 1: to my office, and even that night, you know, kept
Speaker 1: kind of resonating in my head what he said, and
Speaker 1: I went online. I'm like, oh my god, there really
Speaker 1: is nothing out there that's going to give you all
Speaker 1: the information that you would really need when you're going
Speaker 1: through something like this, which a lot of people would say,
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of the toughest times in their lives.
Speaker 1: You would think that there would be more information out
Speaker 1: there for something that affects fifty percent of the population.
Speaker 1: So it's it was kind of didn't really make sense
Speaker 1: to me. And so I went to a company kind
Speaker 1: of had them kind of scrub the internet see if
Speaker 1: I was wrong, I'm like missing something, I'd do whatever,
Speaker 1: and it came back. There was nothing out there like
Speaker 1: this where there's a kind of like the web MD
Speaker 1: of health, but this is the web D of like divorce,
Speaker 1: where you still can you can go, you can try
Speaker 1: and find out as much information and you can. Again,
Speaker 1: everyone's situation is different, so it can be a low
Speaker 1: generic in different areas, and so you always should go
Speaker 1: and seek help from a professional. But that being said,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of having one place that's going
Speaker 1: to have so much information you still it's kind of
Speaker 1: like with web MD you can help diagnose yourself. You
Speaker 1: still have to go to Mayo Clinic to get the surgery,
Speaker 1: you still have to go to an attorney to get divorced.
Speaker 1: But this is something that will hopefully give people the
Speaker 1: most amount of information where they can not just survive
Speaker 1: through this, but hopefully strive. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, looking at the site and stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the things is breakup plans. So when you
Speaker 1: go to it, it's like there's articles like how divorce
Speaker 1: mediation can save you time, money, and emotional stress. There's
Speaker 1: a pet custody plan, how excess you know, keep their
Speaker 1: pet pop happy? How to find the best divorce attorney
Speaker 1: for you? Can you diy divorce? It might be easier
Speaker 1: than you think. And then you have other articles you
Speaker 1: know about name changes, which lord, that is like the
Speaker 1: most stressful. I've done it one too many times, the
Speaker 1: name change thing. It's just like it's stressful. But you know,
Speaker 1: are these articles written? Are these things that you've just
Speaker 1: gotten from the internet. Are this someone that kind of
Speaker 1: works in the exit? No? Actually, so we have a
Speaker 1: diverse group of writers who are professionals on and basically
Speaker 1: experts in the field that which they're writing on, and
Speaker 1: or are their professionals who are published who we go
Speaker 1: out and commission to go and write articles based on
Speaker 1: what most people are searching for on the internet. And
Speaker 1: they go in the interview doctors, lawyers, you know, countance,
Speaker 1: mental health and wellness experts, because that is something that's
Speaker 1: very important to me to make sure that people stay
Speaker 1: as sane as possible through this. I try to tell
Speaker 1: people like, look at like Ted Lasso in a way, right,
Speaker 1: like look it stinks now, yeah, but it will. You
Speaker 1: will get through it. It will get better, and you
Speaker 1: just have to mentally be prepared to you know, face
Speaker 1: some situations. I mean, look, if you're not getting along
Speaker 1: that marriage, going through divorcees is going to be you know,
Speaker 1: even more stressful and difficult sometimes between the two parties.
Speaker 1: And so you know, try and advise people. Hey, there's
Speaker 1: two ways to do it. It could be as confrontational
Speaker 1: as possible, or you know, try and try and do
Speaker 1: it the right way. Like you know, try and have
Speaker 1: as much I try to do with as much class
Speaker 1: as possible, because everything you do now will affect you
Speaker 1: later on. Right, you're always going to have a relationship
Speaker 1: with this person, especially of kids. But whether you own
Speaker 1: something together, whether um, you know you have to sell assets,
Speaker 1: buy different things, back, do whatever you have to do
Speaker 1: within your relationship. You will come into contact with this
Speaker 1: person again. So just do it, you know, just do
Speaker 1: it the way you can. Yeah, and you also have
Speaker 1: a UM so there's breakup, planned finances, children, health and
Speaker 1: moving on. And you know under the children one which
Speaker 1: I share with my acts, I've got to two kids
Speaker 1: and um, you know you have a co parenting advice.
Speaker 1: How to make the transition between households easier of her
Speaker 1: parents and kids. I mean, this is all really helpful
Speaker 1: things like how to manage vacations with your kids in X.
Speaker 1: I mean that's just these are all things that I
Speaker 1: would have loved to have had. Um right going going
Speaker 1: through mine, and um, I love that you're hitting on
Speaker 1: all you you also hit on there's a domestic abuse
Speaker 1: story in there. I mean, this is all it's it's
Speaker 1: hitting every um emotion and every also every step right
Speaker 1: that you have to go through. And UM, I'm curious
Speaker 1: to do partner with any any therapy places for the
Speaker 1: moving on step. Yeah. So the only I guess affiliate
Speaker 1: partnership i'd say we have is with divorce dot com. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: basically if someone can do it on their own, you know, look,
Speaker 1: divorce is very expensive and so if you have a
Speaker 1: non high you know it's not a high complict or
Speaker 1: a non conflict divorce, and you can do this. Divorce
Speaker 1: dot com to us is you know one wait, what
Speaker 1: is divorce dot com? Is it just like is that
Speaker 1: its own lawyer? Can you kind of do it like
Speaker 1: a like a tax turbo almost you know, you can
Speaker 1: look at it almost like a legal zoom in a
Speaker 1: way where um, they'll provide you based on a certain yes,
Speaker 1: pricing structure, the information and and documents that you need
Speaker 1: to fill out for them to either follow for you
Speaker 1: or based again on the different levels. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: if you want to speak with an attorney or if
Speaker 1: it's something you really can do on your own. Um,
Speaker 1: there's like I guess an ala carte menu, but they
Speaker 1: really are great and I have done a great job
Speaker 1: and have done many many Um. Divorces online. Interesting, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Have people come to you and started asking
Speaker 1: you questions about divorce like you're almost a lawyer or
Speaker 1: someone that It's like, Hey, for example, like my X
Speaker 1: and I, we didn't have a prenup and then you know,
Speaker 1: and then I made him sign a post and up.
Speaker 1: But then I found out later that what it doesn't
Speaker 1: really hold up more in court. So I'm like, well, what,
Speaker 1: like why did I even have him signed it? And
Speaker 1: so there's things that I you know, I would I
Speaker 1: would probably I'm sure people will be asking you to
Speaker 1: go well, like like you're almost a lawyer or something. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, everyone's situation is different,
Speaker 1: whether it's financial or legal. I mean even the states
Speaker 1: that you live in, whether it's common common law, or
Speaker 1: community property. I mean, every every state is different. But yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people have either sent in questions, called up,
Speaker 1: find you on the street. It's it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: all encompassing. But there's nothing better than when you feel
Speaker 1: that you've actually tried to help someone. And in this
Speaker 1: situation when again you're just there's always one person who's blindsided, right,
Speaker 1: even if you're going to therapy and doing whatever. Once
Speaker 1: once you gets served, you're like, oh my god, what
Speaker 1: just happened. That's the person who is usually so confused,
Speaker 1: so scared. So I mean, I guess there's so many
Speaker 1: emotions like they feel abandoned, lonely, helpless, worthless, I thank
Speaker 1: all these different things. That's the other thing that we're
Speaker 1: really trying to do with divorce. We're trying to basically
Speaker 1: reposition it. You know, too many times now divorces looked
Speaker 1: at it's almost like a taboo, and you know it.
Speaker 1: I didn't come up with this, but someone once said
Speaker 1: it's you know, sometimes a good divorce is better than
Speaker 1: a bad marriage. And so if we can reposition the
Speaker 1: divorce where it's not a failure, but it's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to move on and have the life maybe that you wanted.
Speaker 1: You know, everyone deserves a second chance and so and
Speaker 1: sometimes third or fourth. But in any of these situations,
Speaker 1: we want to be here to again guide people the
Speaker 1: best that we possibly can so they can live that
Speaker 1: life that they want. Sure, and it's got to feel great,
Speaker 1: like you said, to have people come up to you
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, this really helped me or you know,
Speaker 1: get through and have the resources because like you said,
Speaker 1: you can one off Google, you know what's better mediation
Speaker 1: or whatever. But to have a layout of some amazing
Speaker 1: articles for each step along the way, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: got to feel really good to know that you're helping
Speaker 1: people with that through a really through the hardest I mean,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't wish to divorce on my worst enemy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it really especially when you have children. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's so many different aspects that that these decisions affect.
Speaker 1: And sometimes even when you have two xs that are
Speaker 1: going at each other, you know, it could be anything
Speaker 1: of like you can't use that other house right now, Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the kids that's closer to where they need
Speaker 1: to be. You know, whatever situation. Sometimes the spouses are
Speaker 1: going at each other and it's affecting others, and it's
Speaker 1: affecting those around you. Um, it could be your family,
Speaker 1: your friends, your children, and so it really it does
Speaker 1: feel great when you when you're trying to help someone
Speaker 1: and if you can ease that burden at all, a
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll have, you know, clearer decisions instead
Speaker 1: of you know, when you're all foggy and you have
Speaker 1: so much stuff going on, Um, we can help them
Speaker 1: kind of clear their head, kind of you know, be
Speaker 1: a little bit myopic in terms of what you need
Speaker 1: to do on your journey. Then I think it's really
Speaker 1: going to be a success. And we have, um, you know,
Speaker 1: even Laura Losser, who I don't know if you like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's she's great and she's even an advisor to be
Speaker 1: to the exit. So you know, it's great when you
Speaker 1: have someone who really cares. I mean she she does.
Speaker 1: I think she's great. She wrote this book once. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this way. Yep, you know, she
Speaker 1: wants to see things work out, and I couldn't be
Speaker 1: happier to have anyone working with us. But it's also
Speaker 1: amazing when you see some people that really have had
Speaker 1: the means when you're going through this say wow, I
Speaker 1: wish I had this twenty years ago. But I want,
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope this really gets going because at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I want to make sure
Speaker 1: everyone who doesn't it doesn't have the ability to reach
Speaker 1: out to an attorney every ten minutes when you know,
Speaker 1: you get something else at different texts, at different whatever,
Speaker 1: that that these people, that everyone out there has that
Speaker 1: same ability to help, you know, get through again what
Speaker 1: you said something you wouldn't work, you wouldn't wish on
Speaker 1: your worst worst enemies. Yeah, and even you know, just
Speaker 1: some people don't have the support system that other people have,
Speaker 1: you know, so to be able to or even have
Speaker 1: the means to do therapy, sould be able to kind
Speaker 1: of understand and validate people's feelings too during a really
Speaker 1: tough time. UM is a beautiful thing. That's actually where
Speaker 1: we're going to be transitioning UM. You know with the site,
Speaker 1: Like right now, we're really happy with I guess the
Speaker 1: feedback has been incredible and we're really happy with the launch.
Speaker 1: But you know, I really want to see the site
Speaker 1: aside from you know, the content and all that that
Speaker 1: that we're providing. I also the next part I want
Speaker 1: to build out is community, because, like you said, a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't have that that support system. Even
Speaker 1: if you have a best friend and every time you're
Speaker 1: going out, you're like, yeah, I see what Mark sent
Speaker 1: me today or marketed this or marketed or you know
Speaker 1: whoever is using that name. I don't know it Mark,
Speaker 1: just you know, I know many marks, but I'm not
Speaker 1: saying one that's been divorced. Um. After a while, they're like, look,
Speaker 1: if every time you go out, you're gonna bring this up,
Speaker 1: like I can't take it. And so even your closest
Speaker 1: friends sometimes can't be there for you. And so this
Speaker 1: community part that I want to build about, I guess
Speaker 1: we'll start more with like a blog type of thing
Speaker 1: where people will have total anonymity where they can respond
Speaker 1: and you know, here a difference opinions and questions that
Speaker 1: will be posed. And then I want to I'm actually
Speaker 1: starting to talk to someone about using an algorithm to
Speaker 1: come up with pods where you know, if I'm a
Speaker 1: twenty five year old who just got divorced with no kids,
Speaker 1: obviously it's me a lot different than a fifty year
Speaker 1: old with three kids. So you want people to be
Speaker 1: able to be in pods where things they want to
Speaker 1: discuss will be relevant to them. And if they're not
Speaker 1: happy in that pod, we can you know, you can
Speaker 1: get out and get into another one. Right, but again
Speaker 1: with total anonymity and where you can just be yourself.
Speaker 1: I love that because even I mean I I had
Speaker 1: a great support system, but sometimes there might be questions
Speaker 1: that you want to ask that or say, or even
Speaker 1: just a voice that you might be embarrassed to say
Speaker 1: or you don't um like. I know, for me, I
Speaker 1: went like very inward and sometimes I then push people away.
Speaker 1: So it's easier to just maybe write out feelings or
Speaker 1: a comment toward to have other people to relate to
Speaker 1: other people because at the time I was the only
Speaker 1: one going through, you know, a divorce in my friend group.
Speaker 1: Now there's a few, unfortunately, but you know, now I
Speaker 1: kind of can be the voice to be like, I
Speaker 1: promise you it gets better and you're gonna be okay
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be alone forever. And I
Speaker 1: think even just having like that support of other people
Speaker 1: too in there will will be really nice for the
Speaker 1: people that are like, you know, because that that's where
Speaker 1: my dms blow up the most, is like they always say,
Speaker 1: am I ever going to be happy again? Am I
Speaker 1: ever going to smile? Am I ever going to find
Speaker 1: love again? And it's like, I just I know the
Speaker 1: despair and the bottom where they're at. That's like there's
Speaker 1: so much beauty outside of it. Just it just sucks
Speaker 1: the first year like that, there's so many first and
Speaker 1: that that first year is just really hard. And so
Speaker 1: to have you know, a place especially to start it,
Speaker 1: it's like where do you start? Well, the exit, you know,
Speaker 1: he starts the exit. So I just I love that.
Speaker 1: Well one thing that I also want to start doing
Speaker 1: there's basically giving people a way to get back out there, right,
Speaker 1: So there's gonna be a lot more with dating and
Speaker 1: you know dressing because look, I mean obviously my wardrobe
Speaker 1: maybe different if I was you know, going out and
Speaker 1: trying to you know, meet people all the time and
Speaker 1: do whatever. Uh. I was having dinner with someone who
Speaker 1: is it a major law firm and they were like,
Speaker 1: you know, someone got divorced in my in my firm,
Speaker 1: they can't to my office, and they said, what's like
Speaker 1: the cool drink to order? Like I'm going out tonight
Speaker 1: for the first time and I don't know how long
Speaker 1: wine like exactly. I mean, it's like so it's right,
Speaker 1: and so it's amazing that people like they really have
Speaker 1: to start over. And what what I noticed was there's
Speaker 1: so much always on the front end, right, you prepare
Speaker 1: so much for one day when you're getting married, right,
Speaker 1: whether it's cater or the flowers, the reception hall, the
Speaker 1: church or or shoal or wherever you're gonna be. But
Speaker 1: people don't take their time and look at their divorce,
Speaker 1: which will affect them for the rest of their lives,
Speaker 1: whether it's with assets or you know, just anything that
Speaker 1: you're going to be that you had together. And so
Speaker 1: you know, giving people that kind of comfort also is
Speaker 1: very important to us. Yeah, I love that. Well, Phil,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for everything you do. Everyone. If
Speaker 1: you were, you know, going through that, We're sorry. Having
Speaker 1: said that, there are places and this is this is
Speaker 1: the place to go, the number one place, So the
Speaker 1: Exit dot Com. You'll check it out and you'll find
Speaker 1: some amazing resources and some great article articles that will
Speaker 1: help you through this time. And you are not alone.
Speaker 1: And you will feel that very soon when they start
Speaker 1: the new community tribe. Right, No one walks alone, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: no one walks alone. People have done it before you,
Speaker 1: they'll do it after you, and then you get to
Speaker 1: help them along the way. Well, everyone does need a
Speaker 1: great exit, so there we do exactly. Thank you, Phil,
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Thank you so much for having me