1 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the 2 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: global economy to you, and that, of course was the 3 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: mighty Mega Hunter t Rex, a toy you might want 4 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: to buy your favorite three year old for Christmas this year. 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: But with all the talk of global supply chain snarl ups, 6 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: I know you're wondering, will those vital toy supplies from 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: the North Pole and China get through and if so, 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: what cost? Well, we have the very latest news from 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: Hong Kong in a minute. We also have some hard 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: numbers on the soaring wealth of the world's billionaires, and 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: we take a few minutes to consider the new traffic 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: light coalition in Germany and Angela Merkel's legacy after sixteen 13 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: years as Chancellor. Stay tuned too if you want to 14 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: find out what her staff gave her as a going 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: a Way present this week. Clue, it's not socks and 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: it's not a watch. But first, here's our senior correspondent 17 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: in the current in Hong Kong with that vital update 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: for anyone who has yet to finish their Christmas shopping 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: m it's shaping up to be an expensive Christmas for 20 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: Santa Claus. As the big supply crunch of one pushes 21 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: up prices for toys. There's even a risk of some 22 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: presents won't get to Santa Sligh in time. So I 23 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: went along to meet Dave Cave, the owner of Dragon 24 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: Eye Toys in Hong Kong, whose products include the Mighty 25 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Mega Hunter t Rex that you just heard, to find 26 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: out the latest state of play for toymakers. But before 27 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: we dive into the details, here's a dem of one 28 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: of his dinosaurs. What we've done really well with should 29 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: do a talk back junior megasaur. It has three play 30 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: me functions on the actual dinosaur. It's about seven or 31 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: eight in she's long, same in the height. It's a 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: really cooled dinosaur. So when you press its foot, you 33 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: hear it walking. When you press its tummy you can 34 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: hear it's munching away there. And when you press its 35 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: back you can hear it roaring. And when you press 36 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: the top of the dino's head and you say something 37 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: like welcome to Dragon Eye Toys, this is the talk 38 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: back Dinoh, welcome to Dragon Eye Toys. And I can 39 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: tell you parents and kids absolutely love it. Cave cells 40 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: to leading retailers around the world. Unlike every other toymaker. 41 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: He has spent a year dealing with surging prices and 42 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: mathsfully disrupted transportation. While he's seeing some signs of stabilization 43 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: in the supply crunch, Cave reckons the spike and costs 44 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: still flowing through to consumers. Everybody's toys, everybody's kettles, everybody's 45 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: whatever they're buying. If it's come from China and it's 46 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: arriving in the last quarter of one and the first 47 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: quarter of two, there's going to be pricing creases anything 48 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: from five to depending on the product. Recent data in 49 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: Asia is pointing to some easing of congestion at the 50 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: region's biggest ports, and economists say and easing energy crunch 51 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: in China will also help supply chains. But Cave is 52 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: looking to Chinese New Year in February as a potential 53 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: circuit breaker for the global supply crunch. That's the time 54 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: of year when China's factories shut down for annual holidays, 55 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: and it's normally associated with a lull in global trade. 56 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: Recent data in Asia is already pointing to some easing 57 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: of congestion at major ports, and economists say an energy 58 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: crunch in China is easy and that will also boost supplying, 59 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: so the supply chain is still difficult. The general feel 60 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: is that Chinese New Year tends to be where everything 61 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: breaks off and we restart everything, and so I think 62 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people are thinking maybe end of February 63 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: early March things will change. Still cave cautions, it's not 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: just supply chain snags that are hitting toymakers. The strength 65 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: of the yuan and high oil prices could leave an 66 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: impact long after ships are sailing on time. Again, I 67 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: would say over the last eighteen months, we've had from 68 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: the factors between a three and ten twelve percent increase 69 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: over that eighteen months, which we've had to pass on 70 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: to our customers as best we can because we you know, 71 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: in our industry you have to be lean and mean, 72 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: and there isn't that extra margin. And I think the 73 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: buyers out there globally realized that prices will go up. 74 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: The question they're all asking is are they going to 75 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: go up again in two Nobody knows. Logically they shouldn't 76 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: go up next year unless something quite fundamental happens within 77 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: the industry and China. So we're looking to stabilize the 78 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: pricing in two. But obviously, as I say, when we 79 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: reset the market in end of February early March, we'll 80 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: get a better indication of where the market is going. 81 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: For now, Santa is going to have to dig a 82 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: little deeper to fill his sleeve. Well, Santa, if you're 83 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: out there, try your best to keep those prices down, 84 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: but unfortunately, I think they're going to be a little 85 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: more expensive than you deliver them last year. Santa for 86 00:05:48,240 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News in Hong Kong. I'm end the current now. 87 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: You might have noticed it was a pretty big week 88 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: for Germany, with Angela Merkel stepping down as chancellor and 89 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: a new traffic light coalition taking over under Chancellor Schultz, 90 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: the Social Democrat leader who's featured on this podcast not 91 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: so long ago. So our Berlin producer Aggie Cantrill is 92 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: at the German Parliament and I think could campaint the 93 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: scene a bit for us, Aggie, I should say, we're 94 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: talking about an hour after the official handover of power 95 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: took place in the German Chancery. But it's it's been 96 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: a pretty momentous day. Just tell us what's going on. Yeah, 97 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: highest Japanese, So it has been quite a long day 98 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: really in the in the Bundestag because firstly the Bundestag 99 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: has to officially vote in the new chancellor, which they 100 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: did um with he gained a majority, I believe of 101 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: three and nine round about um. But then after that 102 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: he was sworn in as Chancellor along within you roster 103 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: of ministers, ministers that come from the Greens, the SPD 104 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: and the Liberal Free Democrats, and then he went to 105 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: meet Merkel at the Chantrey and have the official hand 106 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: over this afternoon. And it's the coalition you just described 107 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: it briefly, but it's it's been known as the traffic 108 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: Light Coalition, which sounds very exciting, but just talk us through. 109 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: So the traffic Light Coalition, I mean, it gets its 110 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: name from the colors of the parties, as do all 111 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: the coalitions. And thankfully this isn't one with clumsily named 112 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: flag as many of the other coalitions are named. But 113 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: this one is a coalition of the SPD that represents 114 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: the red, the Social Democrats, the Greens that are obviously 115 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: as their name would suggest, and the Liberals that are 116 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: classically a yellow color. And there is a bit of 117 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: a distance, especially between the Greens and between the FDP 118 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: on it. A few issues when it comes to economic 119 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: and fiscal policy, especially the Greens were always seen as 120 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: these big spenders, all of these party that had questioned 121 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: the merits of things like Germany's constitutional debt break, and 122 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: yet now because of the compromises reached during the coalition agreement, 123 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: we actually see probably a more fiscally conservative government than 124 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: we would have expected if it were just, for instance, 125 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: the Greens and the SPD, because there's a moderating force 126 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: of the FDP that now are in charge of the 127 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: finance ministry. And later on I think we're going to 128 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: get a little bit into how these three parties could 129 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: possibly agree because they sound very different. But one of 130 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: the one of the striking points to come out of 131 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: the coalition agreement that I think court people's eye outside 132 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: Germany was the lowering of the voting age to sixteen. 133 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: And that was I gather that was in a responsive 134 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: part to a big grassroots movement. How did that happen? 135 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: I think something that's really notable about that lowering of 136 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: the voting age is it's something that actually appeals also 137 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: to those parties. Specifically, the Greens and the FDP have 138 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: a very strong support with among younger Germans. And I 139 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: think there's an interesting conversation to be had about whether 140 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: or not it's not a question of the c DU 141 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: and the SPD losing out over all, but the fact 142 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: that they're losing dominance within younger voters, and those voters 143 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: are looking for a sort of alternative to the left 144 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: right or progressive conservative dichotomy, but within two other parties, 145 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,359 Speaker 1: a party, one party that stands for digitalization and modernization, 146 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,359 Speaker 1: and another party that stands for a lot of progressive 147 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: social issues and environmental policy. That's the Greens. Yes, that 148 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: would be the Green. It's been quite low key though, 149 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: or maybe it's just that I'm not sitting in Germany, 150 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: but Angle and Michael has been around for sixteen years, 151 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: has been this momentous figure. I mean, as it is, 152 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: it just not a big deal this week because you've 153 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: had you feel like you've been saying goodbye to her 154 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: for at least a year. I actually think it has 155 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: been quite a big deal. But I think the real 156 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: momentous occasion was the election itself, which of course happened 157 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago now. And I think it's 158 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: because now everyone's been wrapped up in the coalition agreement 159 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: that it's sort of passed them by that this was 160 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: actually Merkle's official last day. I think the real, the 161 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: real drama happened around the around the election itself, and 162 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: of course Merkele's party losing out on another term without 163 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: her in charge. Well, it didn't pass us by on Stephanomics. 164 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: What do you think Angler Mike is going to do now? 165 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure she's going to go on a lot 166 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: of hiking trips. That was her present from the chancellery 167 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: staff today. They brought her some some hiking sticks and 168 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: a tind to bring some sandwiches in on her trips, 169 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: and I think she's probably going to take up quite 170 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: a long time sped sped exactly, I can thank you 171 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: very much, but I'm joined now by Holger Schmiding, chief 172 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: economist for Behrenburg Bank and a wise observer of the 173 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: German and broader European economy for many years. Holger thanks 174 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: very much for joining Stephanomics and Angela Merkel has had 175 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: sixteen years in office, one of the most influential politicians 176 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: of our era by any measure. I don't feel like 177 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: if it was any other country or any other chancellor, 178 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: we'd be making much more fast about her departure. Now, Well, indeed, 179 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: what we are seeing is a very smooth condition of 180 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: power in Berlin, and it really does mark the end 181 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: of an era. But it does not mark a major 182 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: change in policies. And that's probably why there is only 183 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: limited excitement about it. We'll get it, we'll get onto 184 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: that the new government in a minute. And I think 185 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: in any other country would seen more exciting. I know 186 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: you're you're gonna carefully explain to us why we shouldn't 187 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: be too excited. But if you think about when the 188 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: history books have written, what are the main contributions that 189 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: you think a Glamrker will be remembered for, she will 190 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: not be remembered for one single contribution. She will probably 191 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: be remembered most for two things. First of all, she 192 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: presided over one of the best periods you could say, 193 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: in German history, sixteen years of stability, of peace and prosperity, 194 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: with a record rise in employment. The number of jobs 195 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: where you earn enough who have to pay part payroll 196 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: taxes on her watch rose by in a population that 197 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: did not increase very much. So that is indeed one thing. 198 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: The other thing is, of course her very contentious decision 199 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: during the refugee crisis to not close Germany's borders again 200 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: after the first rush of refugees from Hungary had been 201 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: led in, and the subsequent webs and the subsequent wave 202 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: of migrants, of course did sharpen and exacerbate divides in 203 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: the country. In Europe, it probably contributed a bit to 204 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: the British debate about Brexit. So that is one thing, 205 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: the refugee crisis and are dealing with it, that she 206 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: may be remembered for. But let's put that into contact. 207 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: On the European level, she after some deliberation, did a 208 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: lot to keep the EU, the Eurozone together as well 209 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: as she could. She kept Greece in the Europe, overruling 210 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: her own finance minister on that matter when she really 211 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: had to. She put a lot of German money on 212 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: the table during the pandemic to support heavily affected countries 213 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: during the euro crisis. So she was in one sense 214 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: a very strong European despite the controversies she triggered during 215 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: and in the aftermath of the refugee crisis. I mean, 216 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned the refugee crisis. I suspect that was a 217 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: time when Angela Merkel as a as an individual politician, 218 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: really crossed people's radars outside of Europe because you had 219 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: those pictures coming from the German train stations and the borders, 220 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: and then her speech effectively saying to open the borders 221 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: and that that anyone could come in. I mean, that 222 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: was that was quite a moment at the time. What 223 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: was the more long term impact on the political scene 224 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: of that whole crisis on the German political scene, that crisis, 225 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: the discussion about many, many migrants coming in, did revive 226 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: the fortunes of the flagging far right a f E party, 227 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: which now is a presence in the German Parliament with 228 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: a good ten percent of the vote. It had been 229 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: scoring below five before the refugee crisis. So it did 230 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: sharpen the political debate in Europe in Germany and did 231 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: add to support for right wing far right parties. Having 232 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: said that, first of all, her big decision to let 233 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: in refugees from Hungary was widely applauded across the political spectrum. 234 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: It was her subsequent hesitation about closing the border again, 235 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: her refusal coming from East Germany having been hemmed in 236 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: by a wall for much of her life, while Germany 237 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: was divided and she was on the wrong side of 238 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: the war her refusal to erect a wall at the 239 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: German borders figuratively speaking, that is, to strongly police the 240 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: borders against migration. That refusal in the end proved to 241 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: be quite controversial. She is still hugely popular today. Yes, 242 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: she leaves office as the most popular policymaker in Germany, 243 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: a position she has held through most of her time. 244 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: With some ups and downs, you could say she leaves 245 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: very much on a high note. And when it comes 246 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: to the refugee segation, what we also have to say now, 247 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: with six years having passed since the integration within Germany 248 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: is not proceeding too badly. So the verdict is open 249 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,479 Speaker 1: whether in the longer term net net the problem sharpening 250 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: divisions within the country or the benefit a country with 251 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: an adverse demographic actually gets young people. Most of them 252 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: are eager to work whether this net net will be 253 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: a positive or a negative longer term. Simply, the verdict 254 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: is not out yet. Certainly, from the outside, Germany seems 255 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: to have been despite and maybe, as you say, perhaps 256 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: in part because of the way immigrants have been able 257 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: to be integrated in the labor force. But despite all 258 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: those debates around the refugee crisis, Germany seems to have 259 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: been largely spared the kind of extreme polarization and the 260 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: toxic politics that we've seen, certainly in the UK and 261 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: the US over the last few years. Is that is 262 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: that right or is that just wishful thinking? That is 263 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Germany has been spared much of the um 264 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: ooxification of politics that we see elsewhere. We have traces 265 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: of it, but not to the extent that you see 266 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: in many other countries. One reason for that is, of 267 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: course history, having had far too much of a polarization 268 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: of society in the ninet twenties and early thirties, and 269 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: we all know the terrible consequences of that, Germans shy 270 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: away from taking extreme positions. On top of that, the 271 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: German constitution, the federal nature of it, de facto enforces 272 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: a kind of consensus. Yeah. The government of Angla Merkel 273 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: for three of her third terms included, apart from her 274 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: center right Conservatives, the center left social Democrats, which meant 275 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: that compromises between the two big strands of political thought, 276 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: the center right and the center left, had to be 277 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: struck within the government and also the strong role of 278 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: the Constitutional Court and the upper house of Parliament, where 279 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: typically the party that is in opposition in the federal 280 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: government has a veto the fact to enforces that mainstream 281 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: parties have to talk to each other and come up 282 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: with a joint view. And as a result, Germany rarely 283 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: does big policy shifts which do not enjoy broad political 284 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: support across the isle. So you do have i mean 285 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: on paper, just turning to the new government that we 286 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: have that that takes power this week. Um, it's as 287 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: you said, it's the Social Democratic Party along with the 288 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: Free Democratic Party and the Greens, which in any as 289 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: you said yourself, it's sort of crosses the political spectrum 290 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: in Germany. In any other country, it would sound pretty 291 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: difficult to manage, is it. Is it going to be 292 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: an unworkable coalition at first? It may sound unworkable. I 293 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: mean you have to imagine in the US as if 294 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: sort of the Democrats were to cooperate with of the 295 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: Republicans for one government within one government, that's roughly what 296 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: we are. Biden can only dream of having that exactly, 297 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: get the Democrats to cooperate with exactly, so, at least 298 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: in Germany, we have seen that these three different parties 299 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: have come up with a joint program to govern. Germany 300 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: has a long tradition, at least a long postwar tradition 301 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: of such coalition governments, which against threddled the political divide 302 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: for us. This is normal that you try that you 303 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: campaign on your own platform, but you basically know that 304 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: once it comes to governing, you are not implementing your 305 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: own manifesto. You are trying to combine your manifesto with 306 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: that of your coalition partners of a different persuasion, and 307 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: probably it will work simply because in this government the 308 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: three parties have granted each other a bit of leeway 309 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: when it comes to social policy, such as hiking the 310 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: minimum wage. It is not a compromise. The social Democrats 311 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: the center left have said we want the minimum wage 312 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: twelve euros per hour. They get it. The Greens have 313 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: said we want a faster exit from code, they get it. 314 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: The Liberals have said no tax hikes to fund all 315 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: of that, and they get it, which of course means 316 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: we need a few tricks to actually fund the expert 317 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: investment spending. But it's not just a compromise that is 318 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: all murky. It is something where all of the three 319 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: parties can say the government's programs it does bear to 320 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: some extent our imprint. Hence we can and could sell 321 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: it to our members. So events always happen. If it 322 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: is never easy in government, stuff will happen. There will 323 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: be discord, But I do think this government is as 324 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: likely to be stable as previous German governments and full 325 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: of super reasonable politicians who don't do any of the 326 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: things that other politicians and other countries seem to do. 327 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: When we think about the big challenges for the country obviously, 328 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: and the environmental is one, the energy transition. People for 329 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: a long time, particularly economists who are not German, have 330 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: criticized Germany for being too dependent on its export sector 331 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: and heavily reliant on that on that sort of manufacturing 332 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: side of the economy, which has remained so much stronger 333 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: than it is in many other European countries. I'm interested 334 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: given the current climate concerns about US and China relations 335 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: affecting um the integration of the global economy, and the 336 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: now right now the supply chain issues that we're seeing, 337 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: how has Germany been affected by that? The current supply 338 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: chain is affect Germany a lot. What we are seeing 339 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: is very subdued output in the car sector, say at 340 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: least below what German companies could produce and what they 341 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: could sell given that order books are full. So Germany's 342 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: very dependence on manufacturing, which requires a lot of inputs, 343 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: including semi conductors, forcast, for machine too its is now 344 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: in the near term the significant weakness. It is one 345 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: major reason why Germany in the recovery from the pandemic, 346 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: is now lagging far behind or not just a little 347 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: behind France. Having said that this is probably an issue 348 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: that will no longer be that relevant, say two years 349 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: from now, my private guess is that two years from now, 350 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: with almost every government subsidizing seemi conductor production, we may 351 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: have a glut or at least sufficient, if not too 352 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: many seemi conductors. What we can say if we look 353 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: back at the last twenty years. But all in all, 354 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: Germany's focus on top not manufacturing has not served the 355 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: country badly and it hasn't paid to bet against Germany 356 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: in the last few decades. People, certainly in Britain and 357 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: the UK in the US are a bit worried about 358 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: getting their toys in time for Christmas. With all these 359 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: supply chain issues are you Are you nervous of people 360 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: in Germany nervous about that rushing out to get your 361 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: toys early. Supply chain issues are a major problem in Germany, 362 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: but they are more a problem on the production site 363 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: affecting the car industry. There is much less talk than 364 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: some other countries about the delivery problem, that is, getting 365 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: that what arrives in the ports by truck towards the shops. 366 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: There is a bit of anxiety here and there are 367 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: people are being encouraged to buy their toys early, but 368 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: at the moment this does not seem to be a 369 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: big issue. One reason for that is probably that Germany 370 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: is wide open with its land borders, so even if 371 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: truck drivers asking us in part of the country, they 372 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: could come from other part of the country, or more precisely, 373 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: they could come from Poland from Romania. This is a 374 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: pan continental European logistics market which is strained, but which 375 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: does not seem to be anywhere near breaking point where 376 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: you would have to fear that Santa Claus would not 377 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: be bringing what the kids would love. And thank goodness 378 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: for that Oldish Median, thank you very much, You're welcome. 379 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: The pandemic has been a golden age for billionaire wealth. 380 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: You might have suspected that to be true looking at 381 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: stock markets and property prices soaring around the world, even 382 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: when we were in the midst of the COVID slump. 383 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: But now we have some hard numbers to prove it. 384 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: Courtesy of the Global Inequality Lab, the research group established 385 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: by the French economist Thomas Picketty. US economy reporter Augusta 386 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: Surreva wrote up the story for US and is here 387 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: for a quick chat about it. Augusta, thanks for joining us. 388 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: What are the most eye popping numbers in this report? 389 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I think the 390 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: most surprising thing of the studies not that billionaires have 391 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: lots of money and control lots of wealth, right, but 392 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: it's the fact that during the pandemic, that's when they 393 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,239 Speaker 1: gained the most wealth. So last year, for example, they 394 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: saw billionaire wealth reached three point five percent from simply 395 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: one percent when they started tracking these numbers. So it's 396 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: been going up three point five percent of the world's 397 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: wealth exactly. And that's only and that's fewer than three 398 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: thousand people. Yes, that's controlled by about two thousand and 399 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: seven and seven hundred and fifty people and nowadays they 400 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: control three point five percent of the world's wealth. And 401 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: at the same time, the poorest half of the global 402 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: population controls only two percent of the global wealth. It's crazy. 403 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: And what of the fact is that the driving the 404 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: increased during the pandemic, because obviously we did have a 405 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: recession in many countries, but we did see stock markets 406 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: go up, I guess yes. And what we happened was 407 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: also that we saw the rich get rereacher and the 408 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: poor get poorer, right, so at the same time that 409 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: we saw a lot of people going into extreme poverty. So, 410 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: for example, one of the one of the numbers that 411 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: the authors of the report mentioned to me when we 412 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: spoke this week is that the World Bank estimates that 413 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: a hundred million people are now living in extreme poverty 414 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: since the beginning of the pandemic, at the same time 415 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: that we've seen billionaire wealth sort right. So this is 416 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: happening at a moment in which, as you mentioned, we're 417 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: seeing both financial and real estate markets sore. Uh, and 418 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of people on the bottom half 419 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: of the income distribution suffer a lot from the lack 420 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: the lack of income during the pandemic, the lack of benefits, 421 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: and this is a trend worldwide. Yeah, lack of benefits, 422 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: lack of vaccine, and I could I also noticed in 423 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: the report that the over over globally, the richest ten 424 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: percent control maybe sixty of the wealth, but there is 425 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: there are quite big distinctions across regions. So are the 426 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: one of the most unequal places in the world. Yes, 427 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: So some of the most unequal places in the world 428 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: nowadays are of course the Middle East and North Africa, 429 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: Latin America, and of course Russia and Central Asia. These 430 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: are places where, of course you doubt in the past, 431 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: with a lot of inequality. So this is not something new, 432 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: But what the authors of the report are saying is 433 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: that nowadays, what we're seeing is a shift from claudio 434 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: inequalities into market inequalities in these places. Just showcase that. 435 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: And I mean, the other thing that I guess was 436 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,479 Speaker 1: distinctive about this report is they talk about not just 437 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: the wealth gap, but also the carbon footprint gap. The 438 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: fact that the wealthier people, although they might talk a 439 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: good game about helping the environment, actually have a much 440 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: much bigger footprint carbon footprint. Yes, and what's surprising about 441 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: that is some of the some of the highest inequalities 442 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: are actually seen in some of the richest parts of 443 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: the of the world. So for example, one of the 444 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: regions where are you see, uh, some of the most 445 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: striking inequalities when it comes to the carbon footprint is 446 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: North America, where the top ten percent of the population 447 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: emits on average seventy three metric times per capita each year, 448 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: compared to last than ten times for the worst half 449 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: of the population in North America. And that that is 450 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: interesting with it within the country. And I found out 451 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: thinking August, I mean when we've we've obviously talked about 452 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: inequality before on this show, and that lots of people 453 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: talk about it, and we've interviewed Thomas Picketty himself for Stephanomics, 454 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: And there was this feeling in the midst of the pandemic, 455 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: as it became clear that inequality was being exacerbated by 456 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: the crisis, that there was going to be this great 457 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: move political appetite post pandemic to tackle inequalities or at 458 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: least start to reduce wealth inequalities in many countries. Do 459 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: you feel like that that's panning out? Do you see 460 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: any appetite for that, I mean, I'm thinking about some 461 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: of the debates we've seen in Congress in the US, 462 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: for example. Yes, it was definitely part of the conversation 463 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: in the US for a long time. We saw Treasury 464 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: Secretary Janet Yellen talk multiple times about it. Aldis not 465 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: only has to end this race to the bottom when 466 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: it comes to taxes, but also play a leadership part 467 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: in that. But of course, right now we have many 468 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: conversations happening at the same time on the policy brought right, 469 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: and we're talking about infrastructure bill, we're talking about taxes, 470 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about building back better, and of course there's 471 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: this whole conversation seems to be penning out a bit. 472 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: I think that's also it's interesting in the in the 473 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: UK there seems to be no appetite for that kind 474 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: of action at all. And if anything, on the margins, 475 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: the the extra spending and the tax changes have tended 476 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: to benefit and high income people more. It's all interesting. Well, 477 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: Gustus soever, thank you very much, thank you for having me. Well, 478 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: that's it for this episode of Stephonomics. We'll be back 479 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: next week. In the meantime, if you like the program, 480 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: please take the time to rate it and follow as 481 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: Economics on Twitter for more news and analysis from Bloomberg Economics. 482 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Magnus Hendrickson, with special thanks 483 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: to Ender Current, Augusta Serreva, Aggie Cantrill, and Holger Schmiding. 484 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: Mike Sasso is executive producer of Stephanomics and the head 485 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: of Bloombird podcast is Francesco Leafy h