1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: So are we gonna are we gonna use spells or 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: just well we were working on this episode. Our supervising 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: producer Vicky Ergolina told us her twelve year old son, 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: who loves video games, was having friends over for a 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: game session. But the game they were excited to play 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: didn't require a VR headset or even a controller. It 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: wasn't Fortnite or Destiny or Minecraft. Now. They wanted to 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: play a fantasy game that's almost fifty years old and 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: all you need to play is a pen, a piece 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: of paper, and many sided dice. Yeah, you got it. 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: They were playing Dungeons and Dragons. When you're playing video games, 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: you can't really see your friends and actually like interact 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: interact with them. And with D and D you can 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: like look at your friends and you can like talk 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: the situation out and like what you're gonna do to 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: like save your friend or like slay a monster or something. 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: It's like an open world, like you can go whever 18 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: you want, and like, I like like some of the 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: monsters and like, yeah, it's fun most of the time. 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: I'm the DM, so I really like making the stories. 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: But about playing DUD, I really like working with my 22 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: teammates and just like finding ways to beat the monsters 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: in like clever ways. It's freedom, the way that you 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: can just go wherever you want, make any decisions you want, 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: and the fact that like the decisions you make, you're 26 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: just free completely and dandy. Literally, look it's one. I 27 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: got a lore I you from Bloomberg News and I 28 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: Heeart Radio. It's the big take. I'm West Cosova today. 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons is a massive game? Can it become 30 00:01:51,640 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: a massive business? Too? Generations of players old and young, 31 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: As we just heard there has spent untold hours playing 32 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: D and D. Now, the game's company, Hasbro, is hoping 33 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: to cash in on that popularity with a big budget 34 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: movie and an array of D and D products intended 35 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: to hook players and keep them paying for more. Business 36 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: Week correspondent Felix Gillette is here to explain why that 37 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: might be a risky bet. This did not go over 38 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: well with the D and D world, and later in 39 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: the show, you know you'll sit down at a table 40 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: with them, and the entire conversation you're going to realize 41 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: is going to be stories and experiences that they had 42 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: in their game. We hear from a store owner who 43 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: caters to the D and D crowd. Felix. Today we're 44 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: talking about something I never thought we'd do an episode about. 45 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: But in the BusinessWeek story you've written with Thomas Buckley, 46 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: you say people are looking to make Dungeons and Dragons, 47 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: of all things, into a big moneymaker. Why now after 48 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: all these years? Yeah, I mean Dungeons and Dragons is 49 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: kind of the classic role playing game that was invented 50 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventies, so it's coming up on its fiftieth birthday. 51 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: For those who haven't played before. You basically create a 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: character according to these set of rules, and then you 53 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 1: sit around with a group of friends. One person serves 54 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: as the dungeon Master, and they kind of guide the 55 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: players through these group adventures. A lot of it is 56 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: based on your imagination, and then there's these books that 57 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: have endless rules for like how you fight and the 58 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: monsters and how you engage with them and spells you 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: can use. And it's really fun, and it's going through 60 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: this enormous resurgence in the last couple of years where 61 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: it's probably more popular now than it's ever been, and 62 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: that's because of a number of different factors. I think 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: part of it is a generational thing. There's all these 64 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: people like myself who played as a kid who are 65 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: now grown up and have more spending power and have 66 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: gotten their kids into it. It's been very prominent on 67 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: the Netflix hit show Stranger Things, which has introduced a 68 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: whole new group of people to this game. Shadow girls 69 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: on the wall behind you, swallowing you in darkness, It 70 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: is almost here. What is it? But Jesus were so 71 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: screwed if it's not an army of trauga that's charge 72 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 1: into the chamber. And there's also this whole new crew 73 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: of D and D influencers. So if you go on 74 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: YouTube you can watch shows, there's D and D podcasts, TikTok, 75 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And it's a game that lends itself 76 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: very well to live streaming. It's kind of a mix 77 00:04:53,680 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: of fantasy, imagination, storytelling, improvisation and comedy. And if you 78 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,119 Speaker 1: have a bunch of funny people doing it, it's pretty 79 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: entertaining to watch. And so the thing behind it really 80 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: is this story that the story is unfolding in real time. 81 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: You don't really know which direction it's gonna go. Yeah, 82 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: there's just a bunch of obstacles that come out. Usually 83 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: players will have an adventure module that will kind of 84 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: provide a setting and the large goal and some of 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: the monsters that you might encounter along the way. But 86 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: it's very much up to the dungeon master to turn 87 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: that loose structure of a campaign into a linear series 88 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: of events and challenges, and it's up to the players 89 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: to try and solve the problems and get their characters 90 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: to the end. And there's an element of chance in this, yes, 91 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of it. It's all basically determined through 92 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: rolling of dice, and the classic D and D cultural 93 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: icon is the twenty sided die, which if you have 94 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: ever played it just has a certain feel that twenty 95 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: side is amazing. I just love it, even to this day. 96 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: I haven't played Dungeons and Dragons myself for more than 97 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: thirty years, but even so, you pick up one of 98 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: those twenty sided dice and it's just it's sweet. So 99 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: you were at Dungeons and Dragons kid, Oh? Yeah. We 100 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: had this great babysitter when I was in late elementary 101 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: and early junior high school who had this babysitter, Pip 102 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: Pippa Potter, who introduced me and my brother and our 103 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: best friend to it, and she was an amazing dungeon master, 104 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: and we played for years every time she came over 105 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: to babysit us. Eventually, Pippa went to college and then 106 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: we realized we would have to do it ourselves, and 107 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: my brother, who was older than May, became the dungeon master, 108 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: but me and my friend Daniel really could never accept 109 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: his authority and it fell apart from there. Back in 110 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: the day, I mean, I remember when I was a kid, 111 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: I was not a D and D kid, but a 112 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: lot of friends who played in like some of their 113 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: parents thought this was a terrible influence on their lives. Yeah, 114 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, as this was gaining popularity, there 115 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: was all this stuff about don't let your kids play 116 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons, it's going to ruin their brain. On 117 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: the one hand, I think it actually drew players in 118 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: and increase the popularity of the game among teenagers in particular. 119 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: On the other hand, it made it difficult for Dungeons 120 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: and Dragons owners, the businesses that were trying to make 121 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: money from this game. I think over the years it 122 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: really has hurt D and d's ability to kind of 123 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: branch out and become a broader, more mainstream, family friendly brand, 124 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: which has kind of been the goal of its owners 125 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: for like almost a half century now, and now all 126 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: these years later, that's exactly what some big companies are 127 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: trying to do. Try to take this game that was 128 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: once seen as edgy and now kind of looks a 129 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: little wholesome and make it into a really big brand. Yeah. So, 130 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons is now owned by Hasbro, which is 131 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: one of the largest toy companies in the world. They 132 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: have monopoly, they have scrabbled, they have toggled, they have transformers, 133 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: all these different toys in games in their portfolio of brands. 134 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: And during the last couple of years, as there's been 135 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: this huge surge in interest in playing Dungeons and Dragons, 136 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: Hasbro has looked at this and they've said, Wow, this 137 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: is like a great opportunity to really make a lot 138 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: more money from this brand. And last year Hasbro set 139 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: this aggressive growth goal and they said, we're gonna increase 140 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: our profits by fifty percent over the next three years. 141 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: And as they laid out their strategy for doing this, 142 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: they pointed to Dungeons and Dragons. They said, that's really 143 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: an under monetized brand, and we see it as a 144 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: big potential growth sector for us. So what's kind of 145 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: fascinating now is we're really at the forefront of Hasbro's 146 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: blitz to really make more money from Dungeons and Dragons. 147 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: So over the next year you're going to see all 148 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: these D and D brand extensions coming down the pipeline. 149 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: And the first really big one is Hasbro's E one 150 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: studio and Paramount Pictures recently premiered Dungeons and Dragons Honor 151 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: among Thieves, which is this big, CGI laden blockbuster movie, 152 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: comedy adventure movie. Chris Pine, Michelle Rodriguez, Hugh Grant all 153 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: star in this movie. I think exactly that you bring 154 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: to this. I'm a planner. I make plants. You've already 155 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: made the plant, so the existing plan fails. I make 156 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: a new plant, so you make plants that fail. He 157 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: also plays the loot not relevant. So this is one 158 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: of their big investments. There's also Balter's Gate three, which 159 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: is a video game based on Dungeons and Dragons that's 160 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: coming out later this year. They've announced that Paramount Plus 161 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: the streaming service is working on a live action D 162 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: and D series, and next year they're going to be 163 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: rolling out one D and D, which is the next iteration, 164 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: the next edition of the classic tabletop game. In addition 165 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: to new rule sets and new books, they're also promising 166 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: fans that this is going to be a more digitized experience, 167 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: and it's going to come with all these new digital 168 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: add ons, including a virtual tabletop, which is basically a 169 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: three D environment. Hasbro really for years has been looking 170 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: at Dungeons and Dragons and thinking, how can we make 171 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: this more of a digital experience, because, frankly, the classic 172 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: tabletop role playing industry is pretty small. It's one hundred 173 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars of retail sales in the US 174 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: and Canada, which, when you think about it, is less 175 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: than the studio can make from a single hit movie 176 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: or a single video game. So part of the effort 177 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: to grow Dungeons and Dragons is, okay, what can we 178 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: do that's something in between a game you play around 179 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: a table with your friends and not quite a video game. 180 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: And when the pandemic hit in twenty twenty, it sort 181 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: of accelerated the process, right because suddenly you couldn't get 182 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: together with your friends and sit around a table, and 183 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: so you started seeing a real uptick and you know, okay, well, 184 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: let's get together over zoom or discord. Traditionally, you would 185 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: keep track of your character's evolution on a piece of 186 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: paper with a pencil. While we can't really see each 187 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: other's characters, like, maybe there's an app. There was an 188 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: app called D and D Beyond that allowed you to 189 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: do this digitally. People started playing a lot of times 190 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: with D and D Beyond open on their phone, and 191 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: that service, which at the time was independent, that got 192 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: a lot of growth. Upsurged during the early months of 193 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: the pandemic. So Hasbro was watching all of this and 194 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: they were thinking, Okay, the evolution is happening. We want 195 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: to get involved in this, we want to get ahead 196 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: of this. So last year they went out and they 197 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: acquired D and D Beyond. They paid close to one 198 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million dollars, and now they're essentially saying 199 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: they're going to make this the center of the D 200 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: and D experience. I think what they ideally would like 201 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: is for D and D players to use the D 202 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: and D Beyond app while they're playing the game. They'd 203 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: like people to go on to the D and D 204 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: Beyond forums to chat with their friends, and even more so, 205 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: they would like people to start gathering virtually in this 206 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: virtual tabletop that's coming out and once they're there, I 207 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: think their ideas, Okay, well, how are we going to 208 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: make more money for the game. And they're kind of 209 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: looking at this model that's very popular in the video 210 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: game world, which is like, we'll give away the digital experience, 211 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: either for free or for a low cost, but once 212 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 1: you're in there, we're going to lure you with all 213 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: the potential add ons for your characters, so you can 214 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: get you a cool outfit for your wizard or like 215 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: a new spell that lights up the screen or something, 216 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: and you'll pay us like a couple of dollars here 217 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 1: and there. And they're hoping that all these micro transactions 218 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: will add up to a lot more money over time 219 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: when we come back. Can Hasbro get people to pay 220 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: for a game that's been nearly free for decades. My 221 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: name is Eric and I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio. I think 222 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: the beautiful thing about DND is that's a game where 223 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: you can see yours and the other players in the tables. 224 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: Decisions and choices impact the world, the story, and the characters. 225 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: In another medium like video games, you can really only 226 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: solve a problem in a way that the designer planned 227 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: for you to be able to solve, whereas in D 228 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: and D you're able to address problems these creative, out 229 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: of the box solutions that maybe you're the only person 230 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: that would have thought of to try it that way, 231 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: but then you're able to see that scenario play out 232 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: and how that would impact the world and the story Felix. 233 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: Hasbro is trying to turn what's always been is very 234 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: face to face analog game into something more digital, which 235 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: makes sense. But you had mentioned earlier that there's been 236 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: this resurgence in playing D and D, and a lot 237 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: of that, is you right, was based on the fact 238 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: that it wasn't digital. It was almost like proudly antidigital. 239 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: Are people going to accept what Hasbro is trying to 240 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: get them to do. I think it's going to be 241 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: a tough sell. I think that part of the appeal, 242 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: as you said, of Dungeons and Dragons is that it 243 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: is this analog experience, and I think it's a way 244 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: of getting together with friends where you don't have to 245 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: deal with all the trappings of digital life, social media feedback, 246 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, cameras, microphones, Like it's a really great feeling 247 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: to get back and just sit around at a table 248 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: with people, and I think that's been part of the appeal. 249 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: Then I think it's also been really fascinating to watch 250 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: now because the concern of parents almost universally, is like, 251 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: our kids are spending too much time on the screens, right, 252 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: They're just always playing video games, looking at social media, 253 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: watching their streaming shows, and this huge desire to get 254 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: them off the screens and to do anything else. And 255 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: I think D and D has been great and very 256 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: appealing for that very reason. So now you see parents 257 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: really wanting their kids to go play D n Z. 258 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: Go down in the basement, Hey, get the dice out. 259 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: You know, you guys will have fun. And I think 260 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: ironically that's been part of the multigenerational boom that D 261 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: and D has been experiencing in popularity is its appeal 262 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: as an analog product. So I think that's part of 263 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: the challenge that hasro is going to have. The other 264 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: big part of the challenge is that historically, part of 265 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: the reason that Dungeons and Dragons has been a difficult 266 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: business for its various owners over the years to monetize 267 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: is because of something about the fan base itself and 268 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: anything that reeks of kind of unfettered commercialization or dumming 269 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: down the game. They get very very vocal that, like, 270 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: this is not a good thing. Hasbro actually found themselves 271 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: in this huge controversy with its fan base. Basically what 272 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: happened is that twenty three years ago, the original company 273 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: that owned Dungeons and Dragons, they sold the business to 274 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: Wizards of the Coast, which was this hobby company outside 275 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: of Seattle, which had this hit game called Magic the Gathering, 276 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: and they were flush with cash. They go out they 277 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: buy D and D and so what they did, and 278 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: this was very smart, probably the best decision that's been 279 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: made in the fifty year history of Dungeons Dragons, as 280 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: they said, we're going to adopt this open game light 281 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: and it was essentially saying, if you're a fan of 282 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 1: the game, if you like to play it, and you 283 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: want to create a little add on feature, you want 284 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 1: to write an adventure module that you could take your 285 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: friends through and it's really fun, and you decide you 286 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: want to sell it, that's great. You don't have to 287 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: ask us for permission and go start selling it. Yourself. 288 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: It's kind of been taken for granted that that's how 289 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: the D and D world works. And the other thing 290 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: that was great about this open licensing framework is it 291 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: really broadened the types of people. The groups of people 292 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: that were playing Dungeons and Dragons initially was a lot 293 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: of boys in the Midwest, men in the Midwest playing 294 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: This is kind of the community that grew out of 295 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: Now you suddenly you have more women coming in, you 296 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: have more people of color, and allowed people to make 297 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: characters and adventures that appealed to them and their friends, 298 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: and it was this great diversifying effect on the broader 299 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons community. Felix, why do I feel like 300 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: there's a big butt coming here? Yeah. But then late 301 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: last year, Hasbro started reaching out to people in the 302 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: role playing game community and saying, oh, you know what, 303 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: we have this new contract that's going to replace the 304 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: open game license. We're going to update it. And when 305 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: people took a look at it, all help broke loose. 306 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: I mean, people were so pissed off because essentially what 307 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: it signaled in many small ways was that the open 308 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons era was coming to an end, and 309 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: it was going to be replaced with something else, in 310 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: which Hasbro was much more tightly controlling the ecosystem around 311 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons. If you were a publisher and you 312 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: were making more than fifty thousand dollars a year from 313 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: D and D related products, you'd have to go to 314 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: them and say exactly what it was you were selling 315 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: and to who. If you were making more than seven 316 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, then it would 317 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: kick in a licensing fee, and this did not go 318 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: over well with the D and D world, huge controversy 319 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: in that world. So by the end of January, Hasbro 320 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: essentially capitulated. They apologize we're going to keep the open 321 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: gaming license in place and we want everyone to participate. 322 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 1: They did not really say too much about the future. 323 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: So to what degree third party creators are going to 324 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: be able to create supplemental materials in this new hybrid 325 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: digital Dungeons and Dragons world. That's very much something that 326 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: D and D fans and creators and community members are 327 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: wondering about. In all of this, there's nothing that keeps 328 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: people from just using the old books they use when 329 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: they were kids. Are the ones that are still out 330 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: there and just doing their own games. It's not like 331 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: you have to be part of the Hasbro ecosystem now 332 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: to plate Dungeons and Dragons. Correct. You could go back 333 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: and play the original Dungeons Dragons, you could play Vance 334 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons. You could play the second edition, the 335 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: third edition, the fourth edition. There are all these books circulating, 336 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: rule sets circulating over the years. I think the difference 337 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: is that, especially if you're kind of watching the Dungeons 338 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: and Dragons influencers on Twitch, and you're you know, going 339 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 1: on YouTube and watching people talk about the game, and 340 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: you're listening to D and D podcasts, I think all 341 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: of that has added an element of currency and wanting 342 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,239 Speaker 1: to be part of the new version because you know, 343 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: the old versions work, but the rules are different, and 344 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: this is really just there's no board game involved with 345 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Dungeons Dragons. It's really the rules. And so I think, 346 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: if anything, this broader ecosystem of Dungeons and Dragons fans 347 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: that's built up has put more emphasis on being part 348 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: of the era. And like I said, I think that's 349 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: part of the reason that the current edition, which is 350 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: the fifth edition, is the most popular in the game's history. 351 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: I think the question becomes how many of those devoted 352 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: happy fifth edition players is Hasbro going to be able 353 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: to move over to this new version? And is there 354 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: some risk of as you're trying to broaden this, as 355 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: you're trying to make it more digital, as you're trying 356 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: to make it more appealing to non players, do you 357 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: lose something and do you potentially risk alienating this group 358 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 1: of existing fans that are playing it happily now? So 359 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: what do you think the answer is? Hasbro is putting 360 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: a big bet on this game. It's still a really 361 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: complicated game, is still sort of a niche game. Do 362 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: you think that they can build this into a mass 363 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: market success? I think it's going to be really difficult. 364 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: I think the nature of Dungeons and Dragons is that 365 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: the most important element is the imagination of the people 366 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: who are playing in the group, and that's a very 367 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: hard thing to turn into a product. So, Felix, after 368 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: writing the story, has it rekindled your childhood love of 369 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: D and D? Are you going to start playing again? 370 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: It has? I'm very game to start playing again. I 371 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: want to get my kids into it. We've been playing 372 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: a stripped down role playing game that's much simpler, that's 373 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: kind of geared for younger kids called Hero Kids, that 374 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: similarly uses a lot of the conventions of Dungeons and Dragons. 375 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: But I think it's a feeling like it might be 376 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: time to graduate them up to Dungeons and Dragons. Felix, 377 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: thanks for coming on a show My pleasure. After the break, 378 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: we meet a store owner who makes a living serving 379 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: these gamers. My name is Raven and I'm from eastern Pennsylvania, 380 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: growing up in a religious community. D and D was 381 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: something that I had heard foreign tails of, this strange 382 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: game that people would partake in, and I didn't really 383 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: know where, understand a whole lot about it, only that 384 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: I was dissuaded from playing it. So as an adult, 385 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: coming to D and D was interesting. I'm a person 386 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: who's very involved in the arts, so the idea of 387 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: being able to make up a story and live in 388 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: that story was very appealing. We wanted to talk to 389 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: someone who's deeply familiar with Dungeons and Dragons and the 390 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: people who play it, and also what it takes to 391 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: make D and D a business. Our producer Michael Falero 392 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: called up Lauren Bolanco she's the co owner of twenty 393 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: Sided that's a board game retail store and event space 394 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. Can you describe how you would explain your 395 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: business to folks if they asked, like, what do you do? 396 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: What is twenty sided do? How do you explain it? 397 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: Twenty Sided Store and twenty Sided event Space has been 398 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: going on for twelve years. The detail side of things, 399 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: we sell games on the secondary market, so we sell 400 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: a lot of board games, everything from party games to 401 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: heavy strategy games. We started off as an event space 402 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: and the retail kind of grew out of that. When 403 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: we started, we were running Magic the Gathering events and 404 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: then started picking up Wizards of the Coast, Dungeons and Dragons, 405 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: organized play kits, all kinds of ways for people to 406 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: come together and meet other people. I think over the 407 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: twelve years, we've really realized that that's been kind of 408 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: the key is, you know a lot of people are 409 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: looking for other people who are into this hobby and 410 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: they want to find other people to play with. What 411 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: we do at twenty sided is we create an environment 412 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: where people can come and learn how to play as 413 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: they're playing. So we started off right away with that 414 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: kind of being the foremost of it, we would have 415 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: pregenerated characters that you could play, and then as you 416 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: sort of got a little bit more familiar with it, 417 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: we'd have opportunities for our dispense to create their own 418 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: characters and bring those characters back. But then there's also 419 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: now these experiences where you know, people want to watch 420 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: other people play games. Because there were people who constantly 421 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: were like, I'm new to this, I'm really afraid to 422 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: try this out. Is there any way that I could watch? 423 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: But then eventually I thought, oh, you know what if 424 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: we have people that are willing to be on stage 425 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: and want to perform this for other people, then this 426 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: is a way that we could have an audience for 427 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: somebody who walks off the street. You've described kind of 428 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: this learning how to make a character, learning how to 429 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: start playing, which can be an overwhelming but a very 430 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: fun experience. If someone walks in during one of these 431 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: nights where you have an of these events going out, 432 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: what are they most likely to see? Are they sitting 433 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: down at a table with other folks like paying us 434 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: a picture? Yeah, it all starts off with you know, 435 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: you just preregister on our website for either one session 436 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: or I like to kind of group it into smaller, 437 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: more palatable ways for people to register for an event. 438 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: You know, we're all adults and lives are busy, So 439 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: if we do campaigns, I will have people sign up 440 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: maybe for four weeks at a time, and so there's 441 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: always an opportunity to kind of take a break or 442 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: come back. And then for the individual sessions, we try 443 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: to write things in a way where each of the 444 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: storylines can have an end, even if they're just a 445 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: one shot. But if you keep bringing that character back 446 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: for a series of one shots, they are all still 447 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: sort of set in the same world where you can 448 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: keep bringing that character back. And I've started creating my 449 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: own world for this experience. Even though we've got a huge, 450 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: huge selection of role playing games that we sell and 451 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: different games that we run at the store, Dungeons and 452 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: Dragons is still probably our best seller and the one 453 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: that most people want to play and learn how to play. 454 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: You've had this business for twelve years. You just had 455 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: your anniversary recently. Just describe in a few words, like 456 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: how has the D and D scene at your store 457 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: changed in those twelve years. It's changed a lot, you know, 458 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: for the most part, now almost everybody has a better 459 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: idea of how to play and what it is. And 460 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: I think that's because they're watching other people play. There's 461 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: a lot more resources out there for people to watch, right, Like, 462 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: can I just see how this is done? How do 463 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: people do this? So back when we were first running games, 464 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it was people came to 465 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: it realizing that they were an equal participant in the process. 466 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: And I think now there's more of this expectation of 467 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: this entertainment value. So for an audience like hours that 468 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: I would imagine most of them haven't played D and D. 469 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: Could you explain, you know, what is the appeal of 470 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: the game for everyone? What can the appeal be? You know, 471 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: we get to develop a world and create a character 472 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: and play in this fantasy environment that is super fun. 473 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: And I think for people who play in ongoing campaigns, 474 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, you'll sit down at a table with them 475 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: and the entire conversation you're going to realize is going 476 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: to be stories and experiences that they had in their game. 477 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: They're memorable, you know, these things that happen because you 478 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: are part of the storytelling process that you create something. 479 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: The support and the encouragement from everybody around you helps 480 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: you create things that you never thought you could do, 481 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: to come up with ideas that you never thought you 482 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: could ever have, And that's where I think you get 483 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 1: these memorable experiences that stick with you for life. So 484 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's wild. Lauren Blanco, thanks so much for 485 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: coming on the show. Yeah, thank you so much for 486 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 1: having me. This was a pleasure. Thanks for listening to 487 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: us here at The Big Take. It's a daily podcast 488 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from my Heart Radio, 489 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, 490 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear from you. Email us questions 491 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The 492 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: supervising producer of The Big Take is Vicky Virgolina. Our 493 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: senior producer is Catherine Fink. Our producers are Michael Flero 494 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: and Mo Barrow. Raphael m Seely is our engineer. Our 495 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: original music was composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. 496 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: We'll be back on Monday with another Big Take. Have 497 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: a great weekend.