WEBVTT - The Future of Energy

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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<v Speaker 1>Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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<v Speaker 1>bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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<v Speaker 1>you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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<v Speaker 1>or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. We're

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<v Speaker 1>broadcasting from the Sea the Future of Energy Summit. It

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<v Speaker 1>is powered by Bloomberg New Energy Finance. I'm Pim Fox

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<v Speaker 1>here with Lisa Abramwitz and you know, Lisa, our next guest.

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<v Speaker 1>I would have not expected to see this gentleman here

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<v Speaker 1>at a conference on energy. He bikes all the way

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<v Speaker 1>here from California, that's right. And and you know what

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't he's on the bicycle most of the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh and um, well, he does happen to manage over

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred billion dollars and he's right, and he is

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<v Speaker 1>responsible to the retirees of the California State Teachers Retirement System.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Silman is the chief investment Officer and he joints us. Now, Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for being with this, Thanks for stopping by. What

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<v Speaker 1>are you I mean not that we don't love seeing

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<v Speaker 1>you and having you around, but what are you doing here? Yeah? No,

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<v Speaker 1>it's very unusual. I think I'm the only chief investment

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<v Speaker 1>officer that's actually here. I'm only the second number two

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<v Speaker 1>pension plan and the whole world that's actually here. Has

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<v Speaker 1>anyone talked to you? I mean, or you get to

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<v Speaker 1>be up, you get to be anonymous? Now you guys?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, I actually came to I saw the

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<v Speaker 1>radio station here's like, came here to say hi to you. Um. No,

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<v Speaker 1>people don't know us very well here. We're actually kind

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<v Speaker 1>of incognito, which is kind of nice. It's a great

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<v Speaker 1>learning experience the second time I've been here. Um, the

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<v Speaker 1>future of energy is huge. The demand will continue to

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<v Speaker 1>rise globally, and the sources of energy are going to

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<v Speaker 1>really diversify. And so that's an investment opportunity. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>risk and an opportunity to us. Although Chris, you were

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<v Speaker 1>saying that we do not see other chief investment officers here,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly not of retirement systems. You have to wonder, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>will there be a growing amount of demand from public

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<v Speaker 1>pension managers such as yourself, and how big do you

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<v Speaker 1>think that demand could be Oh, I think it's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be huge. Energy is already a giant part of everybody's portfolio.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you think about power generation, it's very long term.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to show up on our infrastructure portfolios. It's

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<v Speaker 1>already impacting our real estate portfolios. It's going to show

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<v Speaker 1>up in private equity in terms of new opportunities and

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<v Speaker 1>new investment, and in the general equity portfolio. Energy power

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<v Speaker 1>generations a big part of the US equity market. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>but how much do renewable sources of energy already factor

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<v Speaker 1>into your portfolio at all, or how much do you

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<v Speaker 1>see the potential for that going forward. I've always been

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<v Speaker 1>really clear with people. We were an early mover into

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<v Speaker 1>solar and in wind back in two thousand three, and

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<v Speaker 1>an early being an early mover is not necessarily an advantage.

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<v Speaker 1>I quote the late Joe Deer who said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>clean energy was a noble way to lose money, but

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<v Speaker 1>it lost us money there. You know, it's like there's

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<v Speaker 1>a really good noble but you know it definitely is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be part of the future. You're seeing clean

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<v Speaker 1>energy show up as much as ten percent of the

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<v Speaker 1>power generation Michael Leeverrick just showed a slide that said

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<v Speaker 1>that in some countries it's of the power generation, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's becoming price competitive. It's still subsidized in many parts

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<v Speaker 1>of the country, but it's showing up in our infrastructure

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<v Speaker 1>portfolio a little bit in our venture capital portfolio. And

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<v Speaker 1>what's interesting I'm learning here is that companies people like Alphabet,

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<v Speaker 1>Amazon Um buy so much power more than some countries.

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<v Speaker 1>They're actually going out and developing their own power generation

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<v Speaker 1>because it's a critical need to them. When you think

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<v Speaker 1>about clean energy, you have this whole supply chain that

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<v Speaker 1>is different than burning fossil fuel of any kind. Having

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<v Speaker 1>said that, when do we get to the point where

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<v Speaker 1>it's just energy? The cause the decision making process changes.

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<v Speaker 1>As the head of a public pension retirement program, does

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<v Speaker 1>it matter to your beneficiaries how you make the money

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<v Speaker 1>for that? It does? You know? I think I represent

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<v Speaker 1>California teachers and extent. If you lose a ton of money,

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<v Speaker 1>nobody cares whether it was like nobly or not right

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<v Speaker 1>exactly well, And our mandate first and foremost just is

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<v Speaker 1>to fully fund that retirement system over thirty years. So

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<v Speaker 1>we have to be focused and on return, but representing

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<v Speaker 1>California teachers. We hear from a lot of them. They

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<v Speaker 1>are very concerned about how we make our money. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I think him when you look at the

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<v Speaker 1>future of energy, it's you know, it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a long term trend. I need a big wave. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a bike ridor, but we like to serve in California,

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<v Speaker 1>so I need a big wave of an investment wave.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to stick around for a long time that

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<v Speaker 1>we can catch up with. And that's why we're here

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<v Speaker 1>is to see it early so that we can ride

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<v Speaker 1>this for a long time. And I think that we'll

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<v Speaker 1>start talking about energy when there's actually a price on carbon.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, coal plants and natural gas plants can burn,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've got a subsidized nuclear and wind and solar

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<v Speaker 1>to be price competitive because the carbon plants don't pay

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<v Speaker 1>for their waste. Al right. So Chris, you're biking, you're surfing.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. I love the California vibe coming to

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<v Speaker 1>us right now from Chris Amon. Uh. You know you

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<v Speaker 1>said that it was a noble way to lose money

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<v Speaker 1>to get in early with renewables. But now as you

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<v Speaker 1>listen to the presentations, is there anything that's caught your

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<v Speaker 1>ear as far as a promising potential investment that you're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna look more at. Let me get back to California. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole world distributed energy, the fact that with solar

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<v Speaker 1>on rooftops you've got people generating electricity all over the place,

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<v Speaker 1>and the big difference, and they talk about here kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the holy grail is battery technology. UM is the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to store all of that renewable because it comes

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<v Speaker 1>during the day or only when it's windy, and you've

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<v Speaker 1>got to hit it for peak time. So for us,

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<v Speaker 1>I see this. You know, energy trans mission distribution is

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<v Speaker 1>an infrastructure play. Storage will probably become very much a

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<v Speaker 1>strong infrastructure opportunity. Which companies are at the forefront of

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<v Speaker 1>the battery technology well, obviously Tesla gets all the headlines

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<v Speaker 1>to the giant right, but you know it's we don't

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<v Speaker 1>spend a lot of time talking about what you gotta

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<v Speaker 1>when you're gonna dispose of those lithium batteries. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we have to look long term. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>always all all great, glorious, But we just saw a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of slides. The automakers are very interesting and if

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<v Speaker 1>GM and four don't get their act together. People like

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<v Speaker 1>Toyota and what in Voteswagon are actually gonna eat their

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<v Speaker 1>lunch Internationally when it comes to UH electronic vehicles. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You see a lot of electric cars in California, not

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<v Speaker 1>so much obviously here in New Yorker in the Midwest,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're going to see US companies, even the odds

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<v Speaker 1>of Lockheed Martin. Right, Chris Alemen, thank you so much

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<v Speaker 1>for stopping by. Always wonderful to speak with you and

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<v Speaker 1>hear about your fifteen mile bike right to work every morning.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Alman is Chief Investment Officer for California State Teachers

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<v Speaker 1>Retirement System in Sacramento, California, with more than two billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars of assets under management. And he's not lonely anymore,

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<v Speaker 1>even though he is probably the only uh C I

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<v Speaker 1>O certainly of a retirement plan. Here at the Future

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<v Speaker 1>of Energy Summit. We are here at the Future of

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<v Speaker 1>Energy Summit, which was powered by Bloomberg New Energy Finance,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're lucky to be speaking with Ralph is O, Chairman,

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<v Speaker 1>President and chief executive officer of Public Service Enterprise Group

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<v Speaker 1>Incorporated that's otherwise known as p S E and G

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<v Speaker 1>and Ralph I wanted to start with your capital investment program,

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<v Speaker 1>which you have just recently laid out, and it includes

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<v Speaker 1>a four point seven billion dollars of plan investments this

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<v Speaker 1>year that is the most ever in your history. What

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<v Speaker 1>are you spending that money on? That's right, So it's

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<v Speaker 1>primarily an electric transmission. We have an aging infrastructure that

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<v Speaker 1>is in desperate need of replacement, both from a reliability

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<v Speaker 1>and a storm resiliency point of view. A close second

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<v Speaker 1>is in gas pipe replacement. We have the largest cast

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<v Speaker 1>iron main system, you know, it's many of our pipes

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<v Speaker 1>approaching a hundred years old. And then probably in third

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<v Speaker 1>place would be the fact that we're building three natural

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<v Speaker 1>gas combined cycle power plants. So it's electric transmission, gas

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<v Speaker 1>pipe replacement, and power plants um in addition to the portfolio.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if you could speak a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear power generation. Yeah, so we've we've actively engaged in

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<v Speaker 1>a policy discussion around nuclear power. We're concerned that short

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<v Speaker 1>term market forces will push the system to a one

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<v Speaker 1>fuel only electric supply option, that being natural gas. We

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<v Speaker 1>believe natural gas is abundant, we do believe it's low cost,

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<v Speaker 1>and we do believe it's a comic fuel. But we

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<v Speaker 1>just think that like tricity is so core to the

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<v Speaker 1>economy and all quality of life that a lack of

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<v Speaker 1>fuel diversity could be a serious problem from a system

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<v Speaker 1>interruption or resiliency point of view. And then, of course

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't speak at all to the environmental benefits from

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<v Speaker 1>an air emissions point of view of nuclear, and nor

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<v Speaker 1>does it speak to the fact that many nuclear plants

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<v Speaker 1>are major employers and in different states. So what proportion

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<v Speaker 1>of P S E n g's UH energy comes from

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<v Speaker 1>renewable sources right now? And where do you see that

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<v Speaker 1>going in the next decade? YEA, So, so right now

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<v Speaker 1>we are fifty seven percent of our output comes from nuclear,

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<v Speaker 1>thirty five percent of our output comes from natural gas,

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<v Speaker 1>about five percent from coal, and the remaining three or

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<v Speaker 1>four percent comes from renewables. More important from a policy

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<v Speaker 1>point of view is what percent of New Jersey's output

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<v Speaker 1>comes from those various fuel sources. And New Jersey gets

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<v Speaker 1>about forty four percent from nuclear, about one percent from renewables,

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty five percent from actual guest of the absence

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<v Speaker 1>of nuclear would make New Jersey a single fuel jurisdiction,

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<v Speaker 1>which is just not a good idea. So what are

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<v Speaker 1>some of the steps or what are some of the

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<v Speaker 1>programs that you're involved with in order to make sure that,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, plants stay open because I understand that you

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<v Speaker 1>know some of them they're not making any money, and

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<v Speaker 1>you've already said that unless there's some way to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out how to make these cost effective, they could be

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<v Speaker 1>shut down. So we're taking two approaches. PIM One is

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<v Speaker 1>to say, if you look at organizing markets, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>missing money problem. Uh, it's it models the mind to

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<v Speaker 1>think that a nuclear plant that takes in that courts

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere from thirty to thirty five dollars a megawatt hour

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<v Speaker 1>would retire and be replaced by a new combined psycho

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<v Speaker 1>plant that estimates range would require fifty to sixty dollars

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<v Speaker 1>a megawatt hour from a proven investment point of view,

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<v Speaker 1>How can the market create that reality that a low

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<v Speaker 1>cost plant would retire and be replaced by something that,

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<v Speaker 1>over the long term, should be more expensive. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>getting FIRK to recognize that there's a price formation issue

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<v Speaker 1>at the state level. What we're saying is, if we

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<v Speaker 1>look at how you're subsidizing renewables, arguably you're paying anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>from two to four hundred dollars a ton of carbon

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<v Speaker 1>to get less than two percent of your electricity from

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<v Speaker 1>rooftop solar grid connected solar. No one has ever estimated

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<v Speaker 1>to be carbon worth that much. Why would you want

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<v Speaker 1>to let your nuclear power plants retire what you're getting

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<v Speaker 1>paid zero for carbon today? So we're really approaching us

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<v Speaker 1>at the policy level in two different ways. We're saying

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<v Speaker 1>markets are not pricing the attributes of nuclear that are important,

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<v Speaker 1>nor are states fairly pricing the attributes of carbon that

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<v Speaker 1>they seem to be saying are reporting. I like that

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<v Speaker 1>the missing money problem. I can say that I can

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<v Speaker 1>come home and say to my husband, we have a

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<v Speaker 1>missing money problem after I went shopping today. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to just go back to this fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollar spending plan, capital spending program over the next

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<v Speaker 1>five years. You know, we talk a lot about jobs,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know President Trump has emphasized jobs with the

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<v Speaker 1>fossil fuel industry. Will you be hiring more people in

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<v Speaker 1>order to complete some of these projects? Yes, we we

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<v Speaker 1>we are actively hiring people to complete these projects. We

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<v Speaker 1>think that there are some improvements that could be made

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<v Speaker 1>in state regulation to make the hiring of these people

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<v Speaker 1>are less lumpy, for lack of a better word. Right now,

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<v Speaker 1>utilities are compensated by state regulators in a way that's

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<v Speaker 1>a that's been going on for a hundred years, and

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<v Speaker 1>we just think that it needs to be a more

0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:36.200
<v Speaker 1>predictable system of state regulation that allows us to hire people,

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.320
<v Speaker 1>train them, and keep them in the pipeline. Because an

0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.439
<v Speaker 1>aging infrastructure isn't getting younger, right we so we will

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.959
<v Speaker 1>need to continue this investment profile out and for the

0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.839
<v Speaker 1>foreseeable future. And right now, the way which we've we

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.120
<v Speaker 1>fund these programs is going back for incremental additions. So

0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 1>we hire a lot of contractors, and we hire people

0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 1>for short duration and what we'd rather do is hire

0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.959
<v Speaker 1>them for a long career. But that requires a more

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 1>predictable regulatory system than the one that's in place now.

0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much for joining us, pretty much appreciate it.

0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.559
<v Speaker 1>Propito is the chairman, the president, and the chief executive

0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:16.440
<v Speaker 1>of Public Service Enterprise Group that are known as PEG.

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.600
<v Speaker 1>At least that's symbol well PG PG PEG where thank you? Yeah?

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Where that it's PEG and you're Lisa, okay, and yeah,

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.679
<v Speaker 1>well so far and we're broadcasting of course from the

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.880
<v Speaker 1>seen The Future of Energy Summit. It's all powered by

0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg New Energy Finance. We want to take a moment

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.640
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0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.439
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0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 1>slash lens. We are broadcasting from the the Future of

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Energy Summit. It's all powered by Bloomberg and New Energy Finance.

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 1>And here to tell us about energy policy and the

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 1>world's climate situation is Barbara Buchner, the executive director of

0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Climate Finance of Climate Policy Initiative. They're based in San

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Francisco and Barbara Buchner can be followed on Twitter at

0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 1>b Buchner thirteen. Barbara, thanks very much for being with us.

0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe just give people a little bit of an idea

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.120
<v Speaker 1>of what the Climate Policy Initiative is. Sure, and thanks

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 1>so much for having me here. So Chemic Policy Initiative.

0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.800
<v Speaker 1>It's a non for profit organization be really focused on

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>helping policy makers and decision makers how they can improve

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>basically their policies around land use climate energy, but doing

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.160
<v Speaker 1>that with a specific focus on finance. So what dcs,

0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.280
<v Speaker 1>We really want to advise them on how to use

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 1>public policies and public resources most effectively in order to

0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 1>unlock more investment and really get us on the local

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 1>climate recident passway. So you spend a lot of time

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 1>in Washington now with guests amongst other countries. We are

0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:31.400
<v Speaker 1>a global organization. So do you find that, given the

0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.440
<v Speaker 1>new presidential administration in the U S that you've gotten

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 1>more pushback in Washington when you go and you talk

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 1>with different policy makers. Well, I do think you know that,

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 1>and we've heard it also today at the summit here

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 1>that there is a generally positive sentiment that is caused

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>by the folly technology costs of renewable energies and so

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>notwithstanding you know, obviously some delays or like some slow

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.239
<v Speaker 1>down in some of due to some two political developments.

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.800
<v Speaker 1>But BC is a very good, you know, general trend

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>saying that the energy transition is irreversible. And I think

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.000
<v Speaker 1>this is something that we hear also from policymakers. But

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>obviously it is something where you know, we work a

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>lot is the private sect in order to understand how

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>we can make the case with policymakers on what the

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>instrument should be in order to get the climate sector

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.800
<v Speaker 1>in So have you found that you've had to make

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 1>more of an argument on a financial level, much more

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 1>so than in the past, where you could talk about

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 1>the actual science behind UH global warming, etcetera. I mean,

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>now it is it's sort of a finance focus. It's like, look, guys,

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.960
<v Speaker 1>you can save money, so do it well. To be

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 1>very you know, this is something which you've done over

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the last year's already. As exactly, we work not only

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 1>in the US, we have offices in Brazil, in India,

0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.960
<v Speaker 1>in Indonesia, and you know wherever we go. What we

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.560
<v Speaker 1>want to do is really enable economic growth while reducing

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 1>climate risk. And so that the narrative that we have is,

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, try to understand what's the incentives for the

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 1>private sector will come in. You know, given that the

0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.120
<v Speaker 1>economics of renewable we see actually very positive trend there.

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 1>At the same time as insaide like we've had not

0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>been We've had not that many discussions now here in

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.639
<v Speaker 1>Washington in order to see what's the changes. We have

0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.959
<v Speaker 1>not really seen any changes yet. Maybe just give an

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.359
<v Speaker 1>example of the kind of work and the kind of

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 1>partnership that you have with states, because I know that

0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 1>you work with New York State on a renewable energy

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.919
<v Speaker 1>plan and also you put together what's called a carbon

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.879
<v Speaker 1>dashboard for California. What are those things? Yes, So the

0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.199
<v Speaker 1>carbon dashboard, for example, this is really kind of to

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.480
<v Speaker 1>provide the information to all market players. We are tracking

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.639
<v Speaker 1>the prices of the carbon market in in California and

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.200
<v Speaker 1>really try to kind of inform decision making by different

0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 1>stakeholders public sector, private sector. It's a statement, but you

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 1>know what I would love to talk about a little

0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 1>bit more is our interactions not only with states, but

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 1>with different types of stakeholders from like governments, from private sector,

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 1>from commercial banks, um, institutional investors, and different types of

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.719
<v Speaker 1>really investors, both for the public and private side. And

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.400
<v Speaker 1>we do that in the context of the Global Innovation

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 1>lab for Climate finance that we manages the secretariat. The

0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.919
<v Speaker 1>idea there is really to work with different constituencies and

0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 1>different stakeholders to come up with innovate definancial solutions that

0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 1>really can help use public money most effectively drive private investment.

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.879
<v Speaker 1>So as you talk with people in these finance arms,

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:30.680
<v Speaker 1>do you encounter many climate change deniers? Um? Pause? Actually

0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 1>not really, I do see, you know, but that again,

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I think the narrative you're using is not only focused

0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.159
<v Speaker 1>on climate change. We really try to show that, you know,

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 1>I understand that, but I think that there is sort

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.719
<v Speaker 1>of this understanding that you know, the clock is ticking

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.680
<v Speaker 1>amongst sort of certain scientifics circles. So there's a certain

0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.120
<v Speaker 1>urgency to making changes. Whereas you know, if somebody doesn't

0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.160
<v Speaker 1>necessarily buy into the argument that you know, human man

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:59.120
<v Speaker 1>made influences are causing global climate to uh change substantially,

0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 1>then you know, okay, maybe it saves me a few bucks.

0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.919
<v Speaker 1>For what's the incentive to really make a make a

0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 1>big change right now? Well, I think the incentive is

0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>that you can make money. There is a business case

0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.719
<v Speaker 1>to invest in renewable energy, and I see you now

0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.800
<v Speaker 1>we're seeing renewable energy costs go down and their competitive.

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.600
<v Speaker 1>It's almost all regions for almost all renewable. So I

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 1>do think, you know, there is a shift in awareness

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 1>that there is not only risks and you know it's

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 1>like the unknown fountain, we have to stick to business

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 1>as usual, but that there is a real opportunity to

0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.240
<v Speaker 1>go into new grounds. And you know, I think what

0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.200
<v Speaker 1>we need to do is just to help scale that

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 1>movement and make sure that we really feel you know,

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.119
<v Speaker 1>the gaping investment that we see at the moment. You

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.719
<v Speaker 1>get us on a on a two degrees buthway. Now

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.880
<v Speaker 1>you have some your financial support from the German Ministry

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 1>of the Environment, also Open Society right to George Soros,

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.399
<v Speaker 1>plus from the Norwegian Does having that government and that

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.879
<v Speaker 1>foundation level support, does that make a big difference in

0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 1>getting a project succeed, you know, to succeed give you

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.320
<v Speaker 1>that twenty seconds. Well, the support we received this from

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.639
<v Speaker 1>multiple sources, not only the ones that you've seen. I

0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 1>think in the context of specific projects that we try

0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.119
<v Speaker 1>try to you know, pilot there, we really need the

0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.119
<v Speaker 1>initial seat funding from public sources. So yes, they're you know,

0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.240
<v Speaker 1>funding from governments, from a foundations is really helpful to

0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 1>take off some of the races at the private sector,

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.960
<v Speaker 1>otherwise wouldn't be able to take Yeah, thanks very much. Um.

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Barbara Buchner is the executive director Climate Finance and Climate

0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Policy Initiative. Thank you very much for being with Thank

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 1>you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.359
<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.440
<v Speaker 1>listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.920
<v Speaker 1>platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.480
<v Speaker 1>pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one

0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.399
<v Speaker 1>before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on

0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio.