1
00:00:15,411 --> 00:00:23,130
Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on the China townstaing.

2
00:00:24,211 --> 00:00:28,611
Speaker 2: When the verdict was coming in and the summations and

3
00:00:28,691 --> 00:00:33,611
Speaker 2: rebuttals were happening, I was in intensive care with the

4
00:00:33,650 --> 00:00:34,211
Speaker 2: new baby.

5
00:00:35,411 --> 00:00:37,891
Speaker 3: One of the things that was so amazing to me

6
00:00:37,970 --> 00:00:43,011
Speaker 3: about Johnny Yenie's he looks so young. Until you seem

7
00:00:43,011 --> 00:00:47,291
Speaker 3: in person, you forget what a baby faced gangster could

8
00:00:47,331 --> 00:00:47,771
Speaker 3: look like.

9
00:00:48,931 --> 00:00:51,251
Speaker 4: It was, you know, a case that truly, if you

10
00:00:51,251 --> 00:00:54,611
Speaker 4: didn't believe the cooperators, you didn't have enough evidence to

11
00:00:54,691 --> 00:00:55,771
Speaker 4: convict the defendant.

12
00:01:00,091 --> 00:01:05,050
Speaker 1: On Thursday, December tenth, nineteen ninety two, twelve jurors filed

13
00:01:05,090 --> 00:01:08,451
Speaker 1: out of a small wood paneled courtroom in Brooklyn. They

14
00:01:08,450 --> 00:01:12,051
Speaker 1: were about to begin to deliveing the seventeen federal criminal

15
00:01:12,131 --> 00:01:19,011
Speaker 1: charges against Johnnyang. Among the charges that he'd coordinated the

16
00:01:19,051 --> 00:01:22,211
Speaker 1: smuggling of heroin from Asia to the US via a

17
00:01:22,251 --> 00:01:26,651
Speaker 1: bean sprout washing machine. Other charges were related to him

18
00:01:26,691 --> 00:01:31,171
Speaker 1: smuggling heroin through mail packages, but the biggest count was

19
00:01:31,211 --> 00:01:37,251
Speaker 1: the first one that Johnny Yang was quote the principal, administrator, organizer,

20
00:01:37,491 --> 00:01:42,571
Speaker 1: or leader of these schemes, the so called mastermind count.

21
00:01:43,651 --> 00:01:46,331
Speaker 1: If the jury decided that Johnny Yang was guilty of

22
00:01:46,331 --> 00:01:49,851
Speaker 1: that he'd face a mandatory sentence of life in prison

23
00:01:50,331 --> 00:01:51,051
Speaker 1: without pearl.

24
00:01:56,731 --> 00:01:59,491
Speaker 5: You actually talked to one of the jurors, right, that's.

25
00:01:59,331 --> 00:02:03,171
Speaker 1: My co reporter, shir Yu Wang. Yes, her name is

26
00:02:03,251 --> 00:02:05,691
Speaker 1: Joan Cohen. She was twenty nine years old at the

27
00:02:05,731 --> 00:02:08,770
Speaker 1: time and she was working on Wall Street for a

28
00:02:08,851 --> 00:02:09,611
Speaker 1: JP Moore in.

29
00:02:10,171 --> 00:02:11,651
Speaker 6: I got picked, and I was like, this is going

30
00:02:11,691 --> 00:02:14,011
Speaker 6: to be kind of difficult because I'm going to have

31
00:02:14,050 --> 00:02:17,690
Speaker 6: to commute from downtown Manhattan over to Brooklyn.

32
00:02:18,731 --> 00:02:20,131
Speaker 5: What did she think of the trial?

33
00:02:20,731 --> 00:02:23,211
Speaker 1: According to her memory, the jury was mostly white people,

34
00:02:23,251 --> 00:02:24,091
Speaker 1: people like her.

35
00:02:24,931 --> 00:02:28,371
Speaker 6: As a non Chinese speaking person. I was hoping that

36
00:02:28,451 --> 00:02:32,211
Speaker 6: the interpreter was actually doing it correctly, Yeah, because I

37
00:02:32,251 --> 00:02:34,051
Speaker 6: was a little concerned about that because what if they

38
00:02:34,091 --> 00:02:34,851
Speaker 6: got something wrong.

39
00:02:35,651 --> 00:02:40,171
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that's a very fair concern, because I don't

40
00:02:40,171 --> 00:02:45,771
Speaker 7: think that the None of the lawyers understood Chinese right now,

41
00:02:46,251 --> 00:02:47,411
Speaker 7: not even a defense team.

42
00:02:47,611 --> 00:02:50,691
Speaker 1: No, none of them did. And you know, Beryl said

43
00:02:50,691 --> 00:02:53,131
Speaker 1: that she remembers that there is always more than one

44
00:02:53,371 --> 00:02:55,851
Speaker 1: interpreter in the courtroom at the same time, so when

45
00:02:55,851 --> 00:02:58,650
Speaker 1: one got tired, someone else could take over. But still

46
00:02:58,891 --> 00:03:02,531
Speaker 1: Joan's worry about understanding correctly what these witnesses were saying,

47
00:03:02,611 --> 00:03:06,851
Speaker 1: makes sense because the whole case hinged on the testimony

48
00:03:06,891 --> 00:03:10,731
Speaker 1: of cooperators, right. And the other thing is, like pretty

49
00:03:10,811 --> 00:03:13,211
Speaker 1: much everyone else in the world, she has a very

50
00:03:13,331 --> 00:03:16,451
Speaker 1: vivid memory of one of the key cooperating witnesses.

51
00:03:16,691 --> 00:03:20,371
Speaker 4: While of course she was like so pretty and so like,

52
00:03:21,091 --> 00:03:24,011
Speaker 4: I just was like, I can't imagine her committee of crime.

53
00:03:24,211 --> 00:03:28,891
Speaker 4: It was like so bizarre, Like I was surprised, honestly

54
00:03:29,011 --> 00:03:32,291
Speaker 4: shocked that a woman would be involved in such unscrupulous behaviors.

55
00:03:32,651 --> 00:03:34,371
Speaker 6: I guess I was a little sexist in the sense

56
00:03:34,411 --> 00:03:36,931
Speaker 6: of like, why would she do this?

57
00:03:36,931 --> 00:03:38,171
Speaker 5: This wasn't the last trial.

58
00:03:38,371 --> 00:03:41,411
Speaker 7: This was Johnny's trial, So what did Joanne think about

59
00:03:41,451 --> 00:03:42,891
Speaker 7: the evidence against Johnny?

60
00:03:43,331 --> 00:03:47,371
Speaker 1: So the jury actually deliberated for a week, five days.

61
00:03:47,891 --> 00:03:50,691
Speaker 6: We're talking about each count. Is he guilty of this?

62
00:03:50,771 --> 00:03:53,931
Speaker 6: He might be guilty of this the lesser account, but.

63
00:03:54,131 --> 00:03:55,291
Speaker 5: Is he the ring leader?

64
00:03:55,411 --> 00:03:55,651
Speaker 4: Really?

65
00:03:55,971 --> 00:03:56,291
Speaker 1: Really?

66
00:03:56,331 --> 00:04:00,091
Speaker 8: That was the big thing that caused the most in

67
00:04:00,171 --> 00:04:03,731
Speaker 8: my recollection, the most deliberation, for lack of a better word,

68
00:04:03,851 --> 00:04:07,011
Speaker 8: was yes, we feel he was guilty, but was he

69
00:04:07,051 --> 00:04:08,411
Speaker 8: the mastermind?

70
00:04:13,651 --> 00:04:18,890
Speaker 1: Was he the mastermind? That was the big question. After

71
00:04:18,890 --> 00:04:21,410
Speaker 1: the verdict, people were going to draw all sorts of

72
00:04:21,411 --> 00:04:24,530
Speaker 1: conclusions about how gangsters like Johnny Yang are held to

73
00:04:24,570 --> 00:04:28,771
Speaker 1: account by the justice system, and this reckoning would lead

74
00:04:28,811 --> 00:04:38,611
Speaker 1: to big changes both in Manhattan's Chinatown and beyond. I'm

75
00:04:38,651 --> 00:04:43,210
Speaker 1: Lyddy Jinkot and this is the Chinatown Sting, Episode six,

76
00:04:43,891 --> 00:04:44,931
Speaker 1: A sense of order.

77
00:04:56,291 --> 00:04:58,411
Speaker 5: So the jury deliberated for a long time.

78
00:04:58,571 --> 00:05:02,731
Speaker 1: They did yes, and the jury Joanne Cohen. She remembers

79
00:05:03,051 --> 00:05:06,331
Speaker 1: going back and forth about the mastermind count.

80
00:05:05,891 --> 00:05:08,331
Speaker 6: Because you're talking about somebody's life. You don't want to

81
00:05:08,331 --> 00:05:11,451
Speaker 6: get it wrong. I don't know what sounds really mean,

82
00:05:11,491 --> 00:05:13,690
Speaker 6: but I just felt like he wasn't smart enough to

83
00:05:13,731 --> 00:05:17,371
Speaker 6: be that mastermind. I don't know why I felt like that.

84
00:05:17,531 --> 00:05:21,371
Speaker 6: I just maybe from the testimonies of the other witnesses,

85
00:05:21,371 --> 00:05:24,851
Speaker 6: but I don't know. Maybe it was just a wrong

86
00:05:24,931 --> 00:05:28,491
Speaker 6: judgment call at that age for me, But I just

87
00:05:28,531 --> 00:05:31,891
Speaker 6: felt like, this is a pretty intricate operation. You have

88
00:05:31,971 --> 00:05:35,851
Speaker 6: to be pretty savvy, and I just, for some reason,

89
00:05:37,211 --> 00:05:40,331
Speaker 6: I didn't see him in that role. He just seemed

90
00:05:40,371 --> 00:05:42,411
Speaker 6: like a regular person you'd see in China, kind of

91
00:05:42,451 --> 00:05:43,451
Speaker 6: walking down the street.

92
00:05:43,491 --> 00:05:43,611
Speaker 3: You know.

93
00:05:43,611 --> 00:05:47,570
Speaker 6: I just nobody I would be afraid of just in passing.

94
00:05:48,731 --> 00:05:51,650
Speaker 5: Wow, I mean, Johnny does have a baby face.

95
00:05:52,411 --> 00:05:54,851
Speaker 1: Yeah, But how would you feel as a lawyer if

96
00:05:54,891 --> 00:05:58,570
Speaker 1: you had spent four or five years trying to get

97
00:05:58,611 --> 00:06:01,851
Speaker 1: this guy and then Jerry was like, I don't know,

98
00:06:01,971 --> 00:06:03,731
Speaker 1: he just doesn't look like a mastermind.

99
00:06:04,251 --> 00:06:08,011
Speaker 5: I would be very, very frustrated. As a lawyer. You would.

100
00:06:09,171 --> 00:06:11,331
Speaker 7: See the case in a very different way, not like

101
00:06:11,451 --> 00:06:14,211
Speaker 7: very different way, but like you focus on different things

102
00:06:14,731 --> 00:06:17,371
Speaker 7: that may or may not stick out to the jury.

103
00:06:17,731 --> 00:06:21,651
Speaker 7: They might just trust what they see more versus what

104
00:06:21,731 --> 00:06:22,211
Speaker 7: they hear.

105
00:06:25,690 --> 00:06:29,811
Speaker 1: Finally, on the afternoon of December fifteenth, the jurors sent

106
00:06:29,891 --> 00:06:32,971
Speaker 1: out a note to the judge saying, we have reached

107
00:06:32,971 --> 00:06:38,491
Speaker 1: a verdict. The prosecution team, the defense team, the reporters,

108
00:06:38,891 --> 00:06:42,451
Speaker 1: the onlookers, the jurors. They all gathered back in the

109
00:06:42,491 --> 00:06:49,091
Speaker 1: courtroom and the judge read each count out loud. The

110
00:06:49,171 --> 00:06:52,731
Speaker 1: jurors had decided that Johnny was not guilty of count one,

111
00:06:53,051 --> 00:06:56,331
Speaker 1: being the principal leader of the heroin importation scheme, the

112
00:06:56,331 --> 00:07:00,091
Speaker 1: mastermind count, the count that came with a mandatory life

113
00:07:00,131 --> 00:07:05,211
Speaker 1: sentence without pearl. He was also found not guilty of

114
00:07:05,251 --> 00:07:07,411
Speaker 1: the counts brought by the Southern District of New York

115
00:07:07,931 --> 00:07:09,971
Speaker 1: that he had conspired to import hair I went through

116
00:07:10,011 --> 00:07:14,411
Speaker 1: a bean sprout washing machine. But he was found guilty

117
00:07:14,731 --> 00:07:18,131
Speaker 1: of counts relating to importing heroin through the mail, the

118
00:07:18,211 --> 00:07:22,331
Speaker 1: counts brought by the Eastern District of New York. In

119
00:07:22,371 --> 00:07:25,571
Speaker 1: the end, it seems like the jurors believed the testimony

120
00:07:25,891 --> 00:07:30,211
Speaker 1: of cooperating witnesses enough to convict him on those counts.

121
00:07:32,051 --> 00:07:35,211
Speaker 1: Throughout the trial, the reporter Gerald Posner had been chatting

122
00:07:35,291 --> 00:07:37,971
Speaker 1: with other journalists. They've been trying to figure out the

123
00:07:38,011 --> 00:07:42,451
Speaker 1: strategy of Johnny's defense team and its lead attorney, Gerald Schargell.

124
00:07:44,011 --> 00:07:46,091
Speaker 3: We used to sort of be amazed at how he

125
00:07:46,171 --> 00:07:49,291
Speaker 3: was making his case. It didn't make sense to me

126
00:07:49,971 --> 00:07:54,011
Speaker 3: when I heard it at first, which was not really

127
00:07:54,051 --> 00:07:55,691
Speaker 3: contesting what you would call the heart of the charge

128
00:07:55,731 --> 00:07:57,091
Speaker 3: and saying you have the wrong person.

129
00:07:58,251 --> 00:08:00,571
Speaker 1: But now they realized that maybe this outcome had been

130
00:08:00,611 --> 00:08:03,131
Speaker 1: part of Johnny and his lawyer's master plan.

131
00:08:04,091 --> 00:08:07,411
Speaker 3: I remember Chargell said, we're very pleased with it because

132
00:08:07,851 --> 00:08:11,891
Speaker 3: the fact that he didn't get convicted as the ringleader

133
00:08:12,491 --> 00:08:15,051
Speaker 3: is just one member of this network. Is the difference

134
00:08:15,051 --> 00:08:18,931
Speaker 3: between doing life in prison without parole or getting out

135
00:08:18,931 --> 00:08:19,331
Speaker 3: one day.

136
00:08:20,451 --> 00:08:24,051
Speaker 1: While Johnny's schemes were simple, his ability to orchestrate them

137
00:08:24,051 --> 00:08:27,611
Speaker 1: all with barely a physical trace may have been enough

138
00:08:27,651 --> 00:08:32,291
Speaker 1: to save him from receiving the harshest sentence. But before

139
00:08:32,331 --> 00:08:36,331
Speaker 1: the judge decided Johnny's fate, she first considered the fate

140
00:08:36,530 --> 00:08:43,251
Speaker 1: of prosecutor Beryl Howells. Two star cooperating witnesses, Wall and

141
00:08:43,330 --> 00:08:48,530
Speaker 1: Michael Yu, also known as Fox. Wall was sentenced to

142
00:08:48,611 --> 00:08:51,810
Speaker 1: five years times. She had already served in the MCC

143
00:08:52,251 --> 00:08:55,491
Speaker 1: that jail outside of Chinatown while waiting for her own trial,

144
00:08:55,891 --> 00:09:00,050
Speaker 1: waiting for Johnny's extradition, and waiting for Johnny's trial to conclude.

145
00:09:00,930 --> 00:09:04,731
Speaker 1: Maybe at first Wall had thought that MCC wasn't so bad,

146
00:09:05,611 --> 00:09:07,931
Speaker 1: but when she spoke to us, she alluded to it

147
00:09:08,011 --> 00:09:11,611
Speaker 1: sounded like horrible incidents. Waugh said that if she went

148
00:09:11,611 --> 00:09:14,251
Speaker 1: into details, she could get a whole bunch of different

149
00:09:14,251 --> 00:09:16,450
Speaker 1: people into trouble, including the guards.

150
00:09:17,371 --> 00:09:19,651
Speaker 5: I should burn the whole mcc dow.

151
00:09:20,251 --> 00:09:23,690
Speaker 1: But she's not going to. She's done talking with authorities.

152
00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:24,771
Speaker 9: I don't want to.

153
00:09:24,810 --> 00:09:29,450
Speaker 10: Hurt people if I say things and they'll hurt them.

154
00:09:29,851 --> 00:09:32,291
Speaker 1: Wall went home from jail to pick up the pieces

155
00:09:32,290 --> 00:09:36,570
Speaker 1: of her life. Her ex boyfriend Fox wound up getting

156
00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:40,250
Speaker 1: sentenced to seven years plus probation. He had already served

157
00:09:40,290 --> 00:09:43,891
Speaker 1: much of that time, and the day after Wall and

158
00:09:43,970 --> 00:09:49,651
Speaker 1: Fox are sentencing, Johnny himself appeared back in court. The

159
00:09:49,731 --> 00:09:52,450
Speaker 1: judge said she knew she was about to rip his

160
00:09:52,491 --> 00:09:57,610
Speaker 1: family apart, but she told him, by importing Heroine quote,

161
00:09:58,330 --> 00:10:02,171
Speaker 1: you ruin the lives of many other families and many children.

162
00:10:03,651 --> 00:10:10,851
Speaker 1: Johnny Yang was sentenced to twenty four years. Beryl thinks

163
00:10:11,210 --> 00:10:12,451
Speaker 1: that that was a fair outcome.

164
00:10:13,810 --> 00:10:16,210
Speaker 2: There are some prosecutors who want to win on all

165
00:10:16,210 --> 00:10:21,651
Speaker 2: accounts and they want the highest sentence possible. That really

166
00:10:21,771 --> 00:10:27,011
Speaker 2: wasn't something that I dwelled on as a prosecutor, because

167
00:10:27,011 --> 00:10:27,810
Speaker 2: he was convicted.

168
00:10:29,651 --> 00:10:32,611
Speaker 1: Like many inmates, Johnny served his time in different prisons,

169
00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:35,330
Speaker 1: but it seems like he served at least a portion

170
00:10:35,450 --> 00:10:39,011
Speaker 1: of a sentence in Raybrooke, a medium security prison so

171
00:10:39,170 --> 00:10:42,571
Speaker 1: far north, it's almost in Canada. We only have a

172
00:10:42,570 --> 00:10:45,051
Speaker 1: brief glimpse of onion heads of life from that time.

173
00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:49,091
Speaker 1: It's in a memoir by John Gotty's son, John A. Gotty,

174
00:10:49,491 --> 00:10:53,331
Speaker 1: who also did time at Raybrook. He calls Johnny a

175
00:10:53,410 --> 00:10:59,091
Speaker 1: gentleman sellmate. I can tell Beryl is proud of Johnny's trial,

176
00:10:59,330 --> 00:11:02,290
Speaker 1: because I've seen her scrap books from that time. One

177
00:11:02,330 --> 00:11:06,771
Speaker 1: page has my boyfriend sister's birth announcement, the next page

178
00:11:06,851 --> 00:11:10,930
Speaker 1: has some baby photos, and then barrels cut out and pasted,

179
00:11:11,251 --> 00:11:15,530
Speaker 1: pages and pages of newspaper clippings. They all have headlines

180
00:11:15,930 --> 00:11:21,851
Speaker 1: like ex Chinatown gang boss convicted. Just as Johnny's rise

181
00:11:21,891 --> 00:11:26,051
Speaker 1: to power had a big impact on Manhattan's Chinatown, so

182
00:11:26,330 --> 00:11:46,290
Speaker 1: would his downfall. According to the former gangster Mike moy,

183
00:11:46,851 --> 00:11:50,651
Speaker 1: newspaper articles about Johnny Ing's trial made ordinary residents of

184
00:11:50,731 --> 00:11:52,651
Speaker 1: Chinatown feel more anxious.

185
00:11:54,011 --> 00:11:57,971
Speaker 10: Anytime these gang members hit the fund page of the news, well,

186
00:11:58,330 --> 00:12:01,811
Speaker 10: actually hit the news. They don't ever hit the funk page.

187
00:12:02,090 --> 00:12:04,730
Speaker 10: But whenever they hit the news in a Chinese newspaper,

188
00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:11,851
Speaker 10: they become more fearful because they like, Wow, look what

189
00:12:11,930 --> 00:12:15,530
Speaker 10: these guys are doing in Chinatown. These guys are powerful,

190
00:12:15,611 --> 00:12:19,410
Speaker 10: these guys are making the money. They can basically do

191
00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:20,251
Speaker 10: anything to me.

192
00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:24,011
Speaker 1: But Mike says he interpreted this coverage differently.

193
00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:26,851
Speaker 10: When I was a gang member at the time, I'm like,

194
00:12:26,891 --> 00:12:29,090
Speaker 10: you know what, this is the nail in the coffin

195
00:12:29,170 --> 00:12:32,250
Speaker 10: for these gangs. We're done, we are done.

196
00:12:32,410 --> 00:12:33,050
Speaker 5: That was it.

197
00:12:34,930 --> 00:12:37,290
Speaker 1: Mike says that the reason gang leaders like Johnny Yang

198
00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:40,050
Speaker 1: became so powerful was because they had the backing of

199
00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:43,410
Speaker 1: the Tongs, those respected community associations.

200
00:12:43,891 --> 00:12:46,530
Speaker 10: The Tongues had the connection to the cops and the politicians,

201
00:12:46,771 --> 00:12:50,611
Speaker 10: and the Tongues had the connection to the trias overseas.

202
00:12:51,410 --> 00:12:55,491
Speaker 10: So it was that power base that they had.

203
00:12:56,491 --> 00:13:00,410
Speaker 1: As soon as gangster started getting convicted, Tong leaders severed

204
00:13:00,410 --> 00:13:03,370
Speaker 1: their relationship with the gangs. They didn't want the FEDS

205
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:04,730
Speaker 1: going after them as well.

206
00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:08,571
Speaker 10: No Tongs want to be associated with any criminal activities anymore.

207
00:13:08,771 --> 00:13:11,170
Speaker 10: They're being washed like a hawk, and.

208
00:13:11,090 --> 00:13:13,811
Speaker 1: The FEDS just kept bringing new cases against many of

209
00:13:13,851 --> 00:13:18,250
Speaker 1: the gangs, including the Flying Dragons. About a year after

210
00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:21,930
Speaker 1: Johnny was convicted, thirty three members of the Flying Dragons

211
00:13:22,090 --> 00:13:26,451
Speaker 1: were indicted on racketeering charges under the Racketeer Influenced and

212
00:13:26,491 --> 00:13:31,170
Speaker 1: Corrupt Organizations Act or RICO, the same law prosecutors had

213
00:13:31,251 --> 00:13:33,331
Speaker 1: used earlier to go after the Italian mafia.

214
00:13:34,210 --> 00:13:38,450
Speaker 10: If you were a Flying Dragon member, you don't want

215
00:13:38,851 --> 00:13:42,530
Speaker 10: to be known as a Flying Dragon member, whereas before

216
00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:45,851
Speaker 10: the RICO you advertise the fact that you are a

217
00:13:45,891 --> 00:13:46,971
Speaker 10: Flying Dragon member.

218
00:13:48,170 --> 00:13:51,490
Speaker 1: After Johnny was sentenced, no one replaced him.

219
00:13:52,050 --> 00:13:54,530
Speaker 10: I will say Anya Head was the last real leader

220
00:13:55,251 --> 00:13:59,130
Speaker 10: of the Flying Dragons.

221
00:14:00,330 --> 00:14:02,810
Speaker 1: By the mid nineties, pretty much all the major gangs

222
00:14:02,851 --> 00:14:07,450
Speaker 1: of Chinatown had dissolved. Mikes's new groups sprung up using

223
00:14:07,450 --> 00:14:10,011
Speaker 1: the old gang names as a way of capital on

224
00:14:10,050 --> 00:14:13,571
Speaker 1: how much people previously feared them. But in Mike's view,

225
00:14:13,731 --> 00:14:16,530
Speaker 1: these new gangs were really just a bunch of kids.

226
00:14:17,170 --> 00:14:20,731
Speaker 10: When you talk about the real, actual members of the

227
00:14:20,731 --> 00:14:24,451
Speaker 10: Flying Dragons, it was gone. That's it.

228
00:14:24,451 --> 00:14:26,531
Speaker 1: It's like when the franchise fins off and it's like

229
00:14:26,571 --> 00:14:29,210
Speaker 1: the seventh eighth sequel. It's like, no one's watching that anymore.

230
00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:34,651
Speaker 10: Here exactly exactly, It's like so many different spirrills Thia,

231
00:14:34,731 --> 00:14:37,691
Speaker 10: let's say, Godzella.

232
00:14:39,171 --> 00:14:42,011
Speaker 1: Without the connection to the Tongs. The new gangs had

233
00:14:42,011 --> 00:14:44,651
Speaker 1: nowhere near the same power or influence in the community.

234
00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:48,691
Speaker 1: They didn't last long. People stopped having to worry about

235
00:14:48,691 --> 00:14:52,611
Speaker 1: getting caught in the crossfire during gang shootouts, small business

236
00:14:52,651 --> 00:14:57,451
Speaker 1: owners stopped having to pay extortion fees. By putting Johnny away,

237
00:14:57,691 --> 00:15:00,571
Speaker 1: it does seem like Beryl Howell, along with many other

238
00:15:00,651 --> 00:15:03,891
Speaker 1: federal authorities, played a role in changing the facts on

239
00:15:03,931 --> 00:15:08,891
Speaker 1: the ground in Chinatown. As for Mike, he did a

240
00:15:08,891 --> 00:15:12,931
Speaker 1: one hundred an eighty degree turn. He joined the NYPD.

241
00:15:13,811 --> 00:15:16,291
Speaker 1: One of the neighborhoods he was assigned to patrol was

242
00:15:16,291 --> 00:15:20,771
Speaker 1: Brooklyn's Chinatown. At first, Mike worried what if he ran

243
00:15:20,851 --> 00:15:23,730
Speaker 1: into former gangsters. He knew what would they think about

244
00:15:23,731 --> 00:15:27,051
Speaker 1: his new job, but he got too busy to keep

245
00:15:27,051 --> 00:15:30,771
Speaker 1: thinking about stuff like that. When he joined, Mike was

246
00:15:30,771 --> 00:15:33,890
Speaker 1: one of only a few hundred Asian officers in the NYPD,

247
00:15:34,491 --> 00:15:38,091
Speaker 1: a small percentage of the force, and out of those officers,

248
00:15:38,491 --> 00:15:41,451
Speaker 1: only a handful could speak with crime victims in Cantonese.

249
00:15:42,291 --> 00:15:44,891
Speaker 10: They feel more comfortable in dealing with me because I'm

250
00:15:44,931 --> 00:15:48,171
Speaker 10: able to speak their language, their dialect, and I'm able

251
00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:54,931
Speaker 10: to explain the entire process to them, what's necessary, what

252
00:15:54,970 --> 00:15:58,051
Speaker 10: they need to do every step of the way to

253
00:15:58,131 --> 00:16:00,531
Speaker 10: take the fairly unknown away.

254
00:16:01,411 --> 00:16:03,651
Speaker 1: Other cops I've interviewed told me they had trouble at

255
00:16:03,691 --> 00:16:07,331
Speaker 1: convincing residents of Chinatown to help them solve crimes. Mike

256
00:16:07,491 --> 00:16:09,971
Speaker 1: sounds frustrated when I bring this up, like it's something

257
00:16:10,011 --> 00:16:11,771
Speaker 1: he's heard a thousand times before.

258
00:16:12,891 --> 00:16:14,891
Speaker 10: When you were an Asian person going in and you

259
00:16:14,891 --> 00:16:16,850
Speaker 10: don't speak English, and you walk into the priests, and

260
00:16:17,931 --> 00:16:22,971
Speaker 10: if you get that, you feel like you're getting victimized again. Now,

261
00:16:22,970 --> 00:16:25,931
Speaker 10: if you treat the complaint like how you treat your mom,

262
00:16:26,171 --> 00:16:29,651
Speaker 10: I think that will take away allow of these issues

263
00:16:29,651 --> 00:16:30,531
Speaker 10: that we're talking about.

264
00:16:32,811 --> 00:16:35,730
Speaker 1: After more than two decades on the force, Mike retired

265
00:16:36,571 --> 00:16:38,571
Speaker 1: and he noticed that nobody seemed to be talking about

266
00:16:38,611 --> 00:16:41,210
Speaker 1: what he had lived through back when gang life was

267
00:16:41,251 --> 00:16:41,811
Speaker 1: all he knew.

268
00:16:42,451 --> 00:16:44,411
Speaker 10: I've been waiting all these years for someone like me

269
00:16:44,491 --> 00:16:47,490
Speaker 10: to come out and at least share some of the stories,

270
00:16:47,531 --> 00:16:48,931
Speaker 10: but there wasn't even one.

271
00:16:49,891 --> 00:16:52,491
Speaker 1: So he got back in touch with some people first,

272
00:16:52,931 --> 00:16:54,291
Speaker 1: just a few old friends.

273
00:16:54,611 --> 00:16:56,891
Speaker 10: Today, I have a short story to share with you

274
00:16:57,011 --> 00:16:58,491
Speaker 10: about the Flying Dragons.

275
00:16:59,330 --> 00:17:02,451
Speaker 1: The former gangsters Mike interviews on his YouTube channel are

276
00:17:02,491 --> 00:17:05,571
Speaker 1: now mostly in their fifties and sixties. Some of them

277
00:17:05,651 --> 00:17:07,051
Speaker 1: share their stories in English.

278
00:17:07,291 --> 00:17:09,411
Speaker 10: I remember walking this is about middle.

279
00:17:09,211 --> 00:17:12,291
Speaker 3: Of the night and the boss of Cashows, Carrly, broke

280
00:17:12,371 --> 00:17:12,650
Speaker 3: on me.

281
00:17:13,411 --> 00:17:18,411
Speaker 10: Some in Cantonese, we homegonge so huge.

282
00:17:19,171 --> 00:17:22,091
Speaker 1: You see Mike talking to one guy wearing aviator glasses,

283
00:17:22,611 --> 00:17:25,931
Speaker 1: another with an eighty style mullet. But even if their

284
00:17:25,931 --> 00:17:28,531
Speaker 1: fashion sense is a little stuck in time, they all

285
00:17:28,531 --> 00:17:32,371
Speaker 1: say they've moved on. They now have jobs running construction companies,

286
00:17:32,771 --> 00:17:37,171
Speaker 1: working in real estate as restaurant owners. Members of once

287
00:17:37,291 --> 00:17:40,051
Speaker 1: rival gangs who once couldn't even be seen on each

288
00:17:40,051 --> 00:17:43,090
Speaker 1: other's streets, can now be seen making sense of the

289
00:17:43,091 --> 00:17:45,571
Speaker 1: past together on Mike's channel.

290
00:17:46,571 --> 00:17:51,211
Speaker 11: Probably freaking a couple thousand feet away from the tattoos

291
00:17:51,611 --> 00:17:54,771
Speaker 11: the courthouses. Funny that how we operate down in the

292
00:17:54,851 --> 00:17:57,891
Speaker 11: Taratal as a gang back then, But we're so close

293
00:17:57,931 --> 00:18:00,211
Speaker 11: to the precinct and the freaking U the courthouses.

294
00:18:00,291 --> 00:18:01,451
Speaker 9: Yeah, but we weren't scared.

295
00:18:05,171 --> 00:18:08,171
Speaker 1: Because of Chinatown gang stories, Mike has become a kind

296
00:18:08,171 --> 00:18:10,370
Speaker 1: of information hub for people who used to be part

297
00:18:10,411 --> 00:18:13,651
Speaker 1: of the Asian underworld. He says he's been getting updates

298
00:18:13,651 --> 00:18:17,731
Speaker 1: about Johnny from people in touch with him directly. Johnny

299
00:18:17,771 --> 00:18:20,891
Speaker 1: was released from prison in twenty ten. He served twenty

300
00:18:20,971 --> 00:18:24,771
Speaker 1: years of his twenty four year long sentence. I've heard

301
00:18:24,811 --> 00:18:27,171
Speaker 1: that Johnny's in Hong Kong and he has a business

302
00:18:27,211 --> 00:18:32,251
Speaker 1: importing lobsters from Maine. Mike won't confirm these rumors, but

303
00:18:32,331 --> 00:18:34,370
Speaker 1: he tells me that Johnny has also moved on from

304
00:18:34,411 --> 00:18:37,811
Speaker 1: his life of crime. He's doing well. Will you tell

305
00:18:37,851 --> 00:18:38,411
Speaker 1: him that I'm.

306
00:18:38,291 --> 00:18:38,971
Speaker 5: Doing this podcast.

307
00:18:39,091 --> 00:18:41,851
Speaker 10: He knows, he knows I sent the message out there.

308
00:18:44,851 --> 00:18:48,211
Speaker 1: In Beryl's household. The Chinatown Sting is a family legend,

309
00:18:48,691 --> 00:18:52,571
Speaker 1: a story everyone's heard many times. But after years of

310
00:18:52,611 --> 00:18:57,211
Speaker 1: investigating it, still didn't really understand what exactly it is

311
00:18:57,211 --> 00:19:00,011
Speaker 1: about this case that stuck with Beryl. What did she

312
00:19:00,091 --> 00:19:03,251
Speaker 1: take away from it? I think the answer has to

313
00:19:03,251 --> 00:19:05,731
Speaker 1: do with why she chose to become a prosecutor and

314
00:19:05,771 --> 00:19:08,531
Speaker 1: a judge in the first place. How she feels when

315
00:19:08,531 --> 00:19:09,411
Speaker 1: she walks into a court.

316
00:19:10,611 --> 00:19:13,811
Speaker 2: The etiquette of a courtroom is like so clear, you.

317
00:19:13,731 --> 00:19:16,771
Speaker 1: Deal with the most messy things in life there, but

318
00:19:16,851 --> 00:19:18,451
Speaker 1: it's also like the most orderly.

319
00:19:18,731 --> 00:19:21,291
Speaker 2: There is a sense of order in the courtroom. Who

320
00:19:21,291 --> 00:19:24,971
Speaker 2: speaks first, you know, is your emotion, the plaintive, who

321
00:19:24,971 --> 00:19:29,691
Speaker 2: has the burden. There's an order to sort through the

322
00:19:29,691 --> 00:19:37,291
Speaker 2: complex issues that human beings have among themselves in the courtroom.

323
00:19:37,571 --> 00:19:40,491
Speaker 1: Even though Johnny's conviction was one of Beryl's hardest won

324
00:19:40,611 --> 00:19:43,891
Speaker 1: courtroom victories, when she thinks back on the Chinatown Sting,

325
00:19:44,411 --> 00:19:47,211
Speaker 1: the moment that sticks with her didn't happen during his trial.

326
00:19:48,291 --> 00:19:52,171
Speaker 1: It's weird what you remember what you don't The moment

327
00:19:52,211 --> 00:19:56,251
Speaker 1: that Beryl remembers best happened years before. It involved a

328
00:19:56,251 --> 00:19:59,571
Speaker 1: woman who received mail packages of heroin but chose not

329
00:19:59,851 --> 00:20:03,971
Speaker 1: to cooperate. She was about thirty years old, she was

330
00:20:03,971 --> 00:20:07,931
Speaker 1: from Taipei, and she didn't speak English. I never got

331
00:20:07,931 --> 00:20:11,051
Speaker 1: to interview this woman, but according to the court documents,

332
00:20:11,131 --> 00:20:13,330
Speaker 1: she agreed to receive these boxes to help pay for

333
00:20:13,371 --> 00:20:17,371
Speaker 1: her wedding. She was pregnant during her trial for heroin importation.

334
00:20:18,771 --> 00:20:21,651
Speaker 1: Shortly before it was over, she gave birth to a

335
00:20:21,651 --> 00:20:27,931
Speaker 1: baby boy. She was then found guilty. Around this time,

336
00:20:27,971 --> 00:20:31,651
Speaker 1: her husband, a restaurant manager, was murdered by a gang

337
00:20:31,691 --> 00:20:37,131
Speaker 1: member after refusing to pay an extortion fee. Beryl Howell

338
00:20:37,131 --> 00:20:39,451
Speaker 1: had been able to ask for leniency for other defendants,

339
00:20:39,771 --> 00:20:43,171
Speaker 1: but this woman had never been a cooperating witness and

340
00:20:43,251 --> 00:20:45,771
Speaker 1: she didn't have any information that would lead Beryl up

341
00:20:45,771 --> 00:20:50,651
Speaker 1: the latter any further. She faced a mandatory minimum penalty

342
00:20:50,691 --> 00:20:54,811
Speaker 1: for what she'd done. A decade in prison, leaving her

343
00:20:54,851 --> 00:20:56,651
Speaker 1: baby without either of his parents.

344
00:20:59,011 --> 00:20:59,611
Speaker 3: That was hard.

345
00:21:00,851 --> 00:21:02,611
Speaker 2: It was hard for me. It was so hard for

346
00:21:02,691 --> 00:21:08,091
Speaker 2: Judge Wexler sentencing this new mom to jail for ten years.

347
00:21:08,091 --> 00:21:10,251
Speaker 2: So she's going to have to give up her child

348
00:21:10,411 --> 00:21:11,251
Speaker 2: for ten years.

349
00:21:11,971 --> 00:21:13,411
Speaker 9: It was very very hard.

350
00:21:13,171 --> 00:21:19,850
Speaker 2: For Judge Wexler. My recollection is that he called me stoneface,

351
00:21:19,971 --> 00:21:22,691
Speaker 2: and I thought to myself, he has no idea what's

352
00:21:22,691 --> 00:21:25,811
Speaker 2: going on inside. I do remember that being very very hard,

353
00:21:26,091 --> 00:21:27,051
Speaker 2: and it was very hard.

354
00:21:29,051 --> 00:21:32,771
Speaker 1: While trying to bring down Johnny, Beryl confronted a flaw

355
00:21:33,051 --> 00:21:37,291
Speaker 1: in her orderly system. She couldn't do it without cooperators.

356
00:21:37,811 --> 00:21:40,331
Speaker 1: She had been using the mandatory minimums as a threat

357
00:21:40,371 --> 00:21:43,090
Speaker 1: to convince them to work with her, but threats alone

358
00:21:43,171 --> 00:21:44,171
Speaker 1: weren't always enough.

359
00:21:45,211 --> 00:21:47,251
Speaker 2: They have to trust that you're going to be fair

360
00:21:47,251 --> 00:21:49,251
Speaker 2: with them and that you're going to live up to

361
00:21:49,251 --> 00:21:49,891
Speaker 2: your promises.

362
00:21:51,131 --> 00:21:54,291
Speaker 1: For the legal system to work, people have to trust it,

363
00:21:54,931 --> 00:21:57,411
Speaker 1: and for them to trust the system, they have to

364
00:21:57,451 --> 00:22:00,850
Speaker 1: believe that it will deal with them justly. Now that

365
00:22:00,891 --> 00:22:03,491
Speaker 1: she's looking back on her career as a prosecutor and

366
00:22:03,531 --> 00:22:07,291
Speaker 1: a judge, Beryl hopes that she's remembered for one thing.

367
00:22:08,331 --> 00:22:15,531
Speaker 2: That no matter what position of power I held viz.

368
00:22:15,651 --> 00:22:24,091
Speaker 2: Via another person, that I never lost sight of the

369
00:22:24,171 --> 00:22:26,931
Speaker 2: human being standing in front of me, and that I

370
00:22:27,091 --> 00:22:30,211
Speaker 2: treated people respectfully and fairly.

371
00:22:34,171 --> 00:22:36,931
Speaker 1: But Beryl still wonders about the people who did cooperate

372
00:22:37,491 --> 00:22:40,331
Speaker 1: and helped her win her first big case. What did

373
00:22:40,371 --> 00:22:41,571
Speaker 1: they make of this encounter?

374
00:22:43,251 --> 00:22:46,811
Speaker 2: I know what that did for me in understanding better

375
00:22:46,891 --> 00:22:50,811
Speaker 2: about their world. But what I don't know is that

376
00:22:50,971 --> 00:22:53,531
Speaker 2: they feel that they understood more about a world they

377
00:22:53,531 --> 00:22:57,411
Speaker 2: didn't know by spending time not with me particularly, but

378
00:22:57,491 --> 00:23:01,251
Speaker 2: with the agents and being in the courtroom. Whether that

379
00:23:01,371 --> 00:23:03,291
Speaker 2: had any effect on them as they went forward.

380
00:23:05,411 --> 00:23:08,211
Speaker 1: In other words, did they ever perceive her ultimate goal

381
00:23:09,491 --> 00:23:12,531
Speaker 1: to bring order injustice out of the courtroom and into

382
00:23:12,571 --> 00:23:33,771
Speaker 1: the world. I found myself thinking about my conversation with

383
00:23:33,851 --> 00:23:37,611
Speaker 1: Beryl about trust and order when I went to visit

384
00:23:37,611 --> 00:23:41,291
Speaker 1: an immigration courthouse, a gray building just a few blocks

385
00:23:41,331 --> 00:23:46,131
Speaker 1: away from Chinatown. As federal authorities have ramped up deportations,

386
00:23:46,731 --> 00:23:50,691
Speaker 1: that atmosphere has become tense. I told shew you about

387
00:23:50,691 --> 00:23:55,090
Speaker 1: what I saw. It used to be that immigration authorities

388
00:23:55,571 --> 00:24:00,130
Speaker 1: wouldn't They would stay away from immigration courthouses because they

389
00:24:00,171 --> 00:24:02,211
Speaker 1: knew people might fear them, and then that would make

390
00:24:02,251 --> 00:24:06,011
Speaker 1: them more reluctant to go in for their regular you know,

391
00:24:06,451 --> 00:24:11,411
Speaker 1: immigration proceedings, et cetera. But now that's changed. Now it

392
00:24:11,411 --> 00:24:13,651
Speaker 1: happens when you go in for your immigration hearing there's

393
00:24:13,731 --> 00:24:16,811
Speaker 1: federal agents who are stationed outside of the courtroom and

394
00:24:17,211 --> 00:24:20,571
Speaker 1: they look really intimidating. Their faces are totally covered with

395
00:24:20,571 --> 00:24:25,211
Speaker 1: like pandanas and they wear baseball caps. And then when

396
00:24:25,211 --> 00:24:27,771
Speaker 1: I was there, they were standing outside of the door,

397
00:24:28,491 --> 00:24:31,131
Speaker 1: and then when the person comes out from their hearing,

398
00:24:31,811 --> 00:24:33,691
Speaker 1: they all kind of like approach. This person was a

399
00:24:33,691 --> 00:24:36,611
Speaker 1: woman and she was with her lawyer, and they asked

400
00:24:36,651 --> 00:24:40,331
Speaker 1: her to show them some documentation, and you could tell

401
00:24:40,371 --> 00:24:43,811
Speaker 1: she was you could tell she and trying really hard

402
00:24:43,891 --> 00:24:48,211
Speaker 1: to keep calm, and she looked through her like folders

403
00:24:48,251 --> 00:24:52,091
Speaker 1: and she showed some papers and then they let her

404
00:24:52,211 --> 00:24:55,851
Speaker 1: go through. But there's all these videos of times where

405
00:24:55,891 --> 00:24:59,451
Speaker 1: people who then ended up getting grabbed by these agents

406
00:25:00,051 --> 00:25:01,891
Speaker 1: and taken into detention centers.

407
00:25:02,651 --> 00:25:06,131
Speaker 12: A quick encounter and without warning, these two immigrants who

408
00:25:06,331 --> 00:25:11,571
Speaker 12: just left the mandatory hearing taken away by federal immigration agents,

409
00:25:13,411 --> 00:25:17,771
Speaker 12: disappearing behind this stairwell. Critics say this administration is finding

410
00:25:17,771 --> 00:25:20,771
Speaker 12: ways to bend the law with claims that non citizens

411
00:25:21,211 --> 00:25:23,090
Speaker 12: no longer have due process rights.

412
00:25:24,371 --> 00:25:26,811
Speaker 1: When I was in the immigration courthouse, I was thinking

413
00:25:26,851 --> 00:25:30,811
Speaker 1: about how much Beryl built her case by relying on

414
00:25:31,251 --> 00:25:35,531
Speaker 1: testimony from cooperating witnesses who are pretty much all immigrants,

415
00:25:36,651 --> 00:25:38,211
Speaker 1: And it made me wonder about what it would be

416
00:25:38,291 --> 00:25:40,891
Speaker 1: like if Beryl was trying to build her case against

417
00:25:40,931 --> 00:25:44,971
Speaker 1: Johnny today and once again she was entirely dependent on

418
00:25:45,051 --> 00:25:46,531
Speaker 1: witness testimony.

419
00:25:46,371 --> 00:25:48,651
Speaker 7: And then like how she would be able to get

420
00:25:48,691 --> 00:25:54,291
Speaker 7: them cooperate. Nowadays, because you see media coverage about police violence,

421
00:25:54,571 --> 00:25:59,011
Speaker 7: like how immigrants were being treated unfairly, that might cast

422
00:25:59,011 --> 00:26:01,691
Speaker 7: a shadow over a people's impressions of the police officers.

423
00:26:02,531 --> 00:26:06,011
Speaker 7: Maybe they would wonder, is that really a safer option?

424
00:26:07,091 --> 00:26:10,411
Speaker 7: So might just go to jail. I don't choose the

425
00:26:10,411 --> 00:26:15,211
Speaker 7: prosecutor to return with a fair outcome or like a

426
00:26:15,211 --> 00:26:19,051
Speaker 7: fair bargain with me. It's a little difficult to imagine

427
00:26:19,051 --> 00:26:22,171
Speaker 7: how the case would proceed right now, like say in

428
00:26:22,211 --> 00:26:23,091
Speaker 7: the twenty twenties.

429
00:26:26,331 --> 00:26:29,571
Speaker 1: In retrospect, it's easy to see how the Chinatown sting

430
00:26:29,731 --> 00:26:32,610
Speaker 1: back then could have just ended with the prosecution of

431
00:26:32,651 --> 00:26:37,091
Speaker 1: a few low level drug couriers. It might have never

432
00:26:37,131 --> 00:26:40,131
Speaker 1: gotten up. The ladder reached the leader of the gang

433
00:26:40,251 --> 00:26:43,211
Speaker 1: hiding out in Hong Kong, got him back to the US,

434
00:26:43,691 --> 00:26:49,371
Speaker 1: and then gotten him convicted. Because for prosecutors to do that,

435
00:26:49,451 --> 00:26:54,771
Speaker 1: they needed cooperating witnesses, and that cooperation comes with a

436
00:26:54,811 --> 00:26:57,650
Speaker 1: heavy cost to those who offer it, even if they

437
00:26:57,651 --> 00:27:00,011
Speaker 1: don't end up serving the full sentences that they could

438
00:27:00,011 --> 00:27:04,891
Speaker 1: have received. Tina Wong told us that she still feels

439
00:27:05,331 --> 00:27:08,091
Speaker 1: that Beryl never fully understood the pressures that she was

440
00:27:08,171 --> 00:27:10,171
Speaker 1: under when she was made her decision.

441
00:27:12,891 --> 00:27:15,291
Speaker 9: Well, I don't really think she learned about all world.

442
00:27:15,891 --> 00:27:17,531
Speaker 1: Why do you say you don't really think she learned

443
00:27:17,531 --> 00:27:18,251
Speaker 1: about your world?

444
00:27:18,491 --> 00:27:23,771
Speaker 9: Until you live it, you can think you know it,

445
00:27:23,811 --> 00:27:25,131
Speaker 9: but no, I don't think so.

446
00:27:26,491 --> 00:27:29,291
Speaker 1: After she was shot, Tina moved out of Chinatown to

447
00:27:29,371 --> 00:27:30,451
Speaker 1: a different part of the city.

448
00:27:31,211 --> 00:27:35,370
Speaker 9: If they could do this, what else could could happen?

449
00:27:35,491 --> 00:27:38,171
Speaker 9: You know, I don't want to take a chance like that.

450
00:27:39,491 --> 00:27:43,771
Speaker 1: In Chinatown. Tina had always struggled to find work. Now

451
00:27:43,891 --> 00:27:46,051
Speaker 1: with a criminal record, it was even harder.

452
00:27:46,851 --> 00:27:48,811
Speaker 9: Daryld told me, oh, just tell the truth. And when

453
00:27:48,811 --> 00:27:50,451
Speaker 9: I told the truth, I didn't get the job.

454
00:27:51,531 --> 00:27:55,171
Speaker 1: Tina kept applying for jobs and kept getting rejected for

455
00:27:55,211 --> 00:27:58,531
Speaker 1: about a decade until she finally found employment as a

456
00:27:58,531 --> 00:27:59,330
Speaker 1: hotel cleaner.

457
00:28:00,331 --> 00:28:03,051
Speaker 9: Okay, I'm not saying we shouldn't get off with a

458
00:28:03,051 --> 00:28:06,051
Speaker 9: slap on the wrist, but after that you know, like,

459
00:28:07,251 --> 00:28:11,931
Speaker 9: don't mock them so they can't get a job. You know,

460
00:28:12,011 --> 00:28:16,531
Speaker 9: I think that's one thing that they should change.

461
00:28:18,891 --> 00:28:22,090
Speaker 1: Maybe Tina wishes none of this had ever happened, or

462
00:28:22,131 --> 00:28:25,491
Speaker 1: that she had made different choices, but she's not really

463
00:28:25,531 --> 00:28:28,371
Speaker 1: one to dwell on regrets, and she's also not one

464
00:28:28,371 --> 00:28:32,011
Speaker 1: to assign blame to herself or to others.

465
00:28:32,651 --> 00:28:35,411
Speaker 9: Everybody's got the thing they got to do. That was

466
00:28:35,451 --> 00:28:39,091
Speaker 9: Beryl's job. So she did her job. So I think

467
00:28:39,131 --> 00:28:43,371
Speaker 9: she knew she you know, thought she was helping. I'm

468
00:28:43,411 --> 00:28:44,531
Speaker 9: pretty sure she did help.

469
00:28:44,611 --> 00:28:48,051
Speaker 1: Would you take that job? What Beryl's job?

470
00:28:48,651 --> 00:28:48,891
Speaker 3: No?

471
00:28:49,891 --> 00:28:51,171
Speaker 9: I have too good of a heart.

472
00:28:53,131 --> 00:28:54,451
Speaker 5: I feel sorry for people.

473
00:28:56,051 --> 00:28:59,451
Speaker 1: What Tina's most proud of in her life is her daughter, Salin.

474
00:29:00,251 --> 00:29:01,851
Speaker 9: That she grew up to be a good person. You know,

475
00:29:01,891 --> 00:29:04,651
Speaker 9: she don't get herself in trouble. She don't like do

476
00:29:04,771 --> 00:29:08,691
Speaker 9: bad things to people. You know, she works very hard.

477
00:29:09,011 --> 00:29:14,851
Speaker 9: She say some money, she's good to me. Yeah, so

478
00:29:14,931 --> 00:29:15,971
Speaker 9: that's all you can ask for.

479
00:29:16,011 --> 00:29:16,171
Speaker 7: You know.

480
00:29:19,091 --> 00:29:21,451
Speaker 1: Tina says she's lost touch with not just Wall but

481
00:29:21,531 --> 00:29:23,491
Speaker 1: all her other friends who are involved in the mail

482
00:29:23,531 --> 00:29:27,331
Speaker 1: package scheme. How did everything that happen change? How you

483
00:29:27,331 --> 00:29:28,091
Speaker 1: look at friendship.

484
00:29:30,771 --> 00:29:34,091
Speaker 9: Well, I always know that a good friendship nothing can

485
00:29:34,131 --> 00:29:34,491
Speaker 9: break it.

486
00:29:38,291 --> 00:29:40,811
Speaker 1: Today, Tina says she's lucky to have some good friends,

487
00:29:41,691 --> 00:29:43,971
Speaker 1: many of them she knows from Chinatown, but they're a

488
00:29:44,011 --> 00:29:46,931
Speaker 1: different crew. She says that when she's with them, she

489
00:29:47,011 --> 00:29:49,291
Speaker 1: has the sense that everything's in order.

490
00:29:50,571 --> 00:29:56,491
Speaker 9: You feel like safe, you know, you feel that you

491
00:29:56,491 --> 00:29:59,331
Speaker 9: can say anything. You could be yourself.

492
00:30:20,571 --> 00:30:23,771
Speaker 1: The Chinatown Sting is written and produced by Me Boddy,

493
00:30:23,771 --> 00:30:27,411
Speaker 1: Eugene Kott, and reported by Me and Hu Yu Wang.

494
00:30:27,891 --> 00:30:32,971
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Emily Martinez. Additional production by Sonia Gerwit.

495
00:30:33,611 --> 00:30:38,171
Speaker 1: Our editor is Julia Barton, with additional editing by Karen Schakerji.

496
00:30:38,931 --> 00:30:43,171
Speaker 1: Our story consultant is wrong shaou Ching. Our executive producer

497
00:30:43,331 --> 00:30:46,811
Speaker 1: is Jacob Smith. Our music was composed by John Sung,

498
00:30:47,531 --> 00:30:51,251
Speaker 1: sound design and additional music by Jake Gorski. Our fact

499
00:30:51,331 --> 00:30:54,571
Speaker 1: checker is Kate Furby, and our show art was designed

500
00:30:54,611 --> 00:30:59,731
Speaker 1: by Sean Carney. All voiceover work by Tally Leong. Special

501
00:30:59,731 --> 00:31:01,851
Speaker 1: thanks to a few more people at Pushkin who made

502
00:31:01,891 --> 00:31:07,131
Speaker 1: the Chinatown Sting possible Gretta Cone, Sarah Nix, Christina Sullivan,

503
00:31:07,931 --> 00:31:15,731
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Rattner, Amy Hagadorn, Kiara Posey, Jordan McMillan, Jake Flanagan,

504
00:31:16,411 --> 00:31:21,491
Speaker 1: Owen Miller, and Sarah Bruger. Additional thanks to Vicky Merrick,

505
00:31:21,891 --> 00:31:28,051
Speaker 1: Mark Jacobsen, Frank Joe, Terry Eggert, Mingley, Joe Flame, the

506
00:31:28,131 --> 00:31:33,451
Speaker 1: Late Neil Mariello, and Yaboogie. For more information about this episode,

507
00:31:33,731 --> 00:31:37,131
Speaker 1: check out our show notes or visit Pushkin dot fm

508
00:31:37,211 --> 00:31:41,171
Speaker 1: slash Chinatown. The ton of Town Staying is a production

509
00:31:41,251 --> 00:31:45,251
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on

510
00:31:45,291 --> 00:31:48,891
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to

511
00:31:48,891 --> 00:32:06,011
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. No, was that lucky? Did he just talk?

512
00:32:07,691 --> 00:32:08,411
Speaker 9: You heard it right?

513
00:32:08,651 --> 00:32:09,331
Speaker 7: I heard it?

514
00:32:09,851 --> 00:32:10,891
Speaker 1: What did he say?

515
00:32:11,051 --> 00:32:11,251
Speaker 3: Hello?

516
00:32:12,131 --> 00:32:12,531
Speaker 9: Does that be?

517
00:32:12,611 --> 00:32:13,891
Speaker 1: Don't know a stranger anymore?