WEBVTT - The Escapism of Drag 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.480 But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:05.600 The Outspoken podcast Network. 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:08.760 I did a show once, I think it was in 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.440 Pittsburgh or Philadelphia, and this guy came up to me 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.520 after the show crying and he's like, my lover died 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.520 of AIDS. I'm going to lose my home because I 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.479 don't have I can't afford to stay there, and my 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.840 life has been in and I was thinking about ending 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.920 it in Da Da Da. You literally made me forget 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.360 about that for a half hour, and I was like, Okay, 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:36.519 I didn't cure anything, I didn't solve any problems, but 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.040 I gave this person a relief for a half hour, 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.479 and maybe that's all it was. But I was like, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:44.839 that's my job. 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.240 As a gay kid, growing up religious and in the South, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.360 I thought being gay was the worst thing I could 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.600 ever be. Now, as a journalist, I'm trying to unlearn 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:00.320 that by seeking out our history, and what I've found 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:06.000 are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, and love. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.720 In this episode, we'll meet Cherry Vine, a legendary drag 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.360 queen who came up in the same drag generation as RuPaul. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.800 We'll learn about how drag has often been a source 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.600 of escapism for the queer community, and how Sherry Vine 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.560 was at the center of that during some of the 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:30.000 darkest moments in gay history. From my Heart podcast, I'm 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.399 Jordan and Solve this and this is what we loved. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:05.160 So I actually only recently got into drag. I kind 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.320 of became obsessed with this last season of Drag Race. 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.920 I hadn't ever really cared about drag before then, but 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.040 once I started watching, it was like I was looking 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.680 forward to it every single week. And obviously I'm not 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.480 alone because there are Drag Race watch parties across the 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.880 country and the Drag Race YouTube account has over a 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:32.000 billion views. As to why drag is so appealing to 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.840 so many of us queer people, there are probably a 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:39.360 million reasons, I know. For me tuning in every week 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:44.600 to see these queens act ridiculous and where outrageous costumes 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.480 and make really stupid jokes, It's kind of an escape 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.920 and it probably has been for generations. One of the 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:57.040 first people to call themselves quote a queen of drag 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:02.120 is the former slave William Dory Swan. He would hold 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:07.240 these fabulous underground balls called Grand Rags in Washington, DC 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.760 and his guests would dress up. Given how completely unacceptable 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.160 it was to be queer in society back then, these 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:20.760 events probably would have been everything to guests, an affirming 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:25.760 space to be themselves and an entertaining escape from the 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:31.200 painful reality of being queer. This long tradition of drag 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:37.120 queens entertaining our sorrows away has continued throughout time. My 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.680 next guest, Sherry Vine, is a drag legend now with 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.240 her own variety show on OutTV and millions of views 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.400 on YouTube. But in the nineties, when she was just 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.640 starting out in New York City, she was entertaining gay 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:57.760 people through an existential crisis. Aids for Sherry, she realized 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:06.400 she could make people laugh from an early age. I'm 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:11.240 here with the legendary Sherry Vine. You're here in full drag. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.040 I'm gonna describe how you look right now. So I'm 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.960 there's squeeze your eyes almost tight, okay, gorgeous like almost 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:28.960 like Jessica rabbit hair, and a sparkly gorgeous dress that's orange, 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.360 fantastic cleavage. 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.840 All smoking mirrors. It look like a twenty two year 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:42.200 old goddess. Just looked like my normal little hooker Barbie itself. 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.479 I love that. I love that. So we like to 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.279 start the show off kind of asking everyone the same question, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.359 when did you know you were gay? 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.680 So I didn't officially come out until I was nineteen. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.960 Then looking back, I mean, I can remember being really young, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.440 like maybe five or six or seven, and I clearly 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.520 remember seeing this guy on a motorcycle in my neighborhood, 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.480 like he was dating the girl that lived a couple 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.840 houses down. He was tattooed and rode a motorcycle. And 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.400 I remember sitting in the front yard like playing with 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.599 cars or whatever I was doing, and seeing this guy 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.920 on a motorcycle and being like, oh my god, he's beautiful. 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.280 It's so funny because I feel like we all have 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:36.640 some similar story, some variation of our motorcycle and basically, yeah, 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.760 what was it like sort of coming of age as 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.280 a gay person in the seventies. I know that you 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:44.600 came out later. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.440 But my school life was horrible. It was horrible. It 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:54.160 was like the classic, you know, bully kind of abuse 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.360 all and it was really horrifying, to be honest, and 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.880 I I fought against it so hard. I'm not gay, 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.000 I'm not gay. I'm okay that I think it just 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:09.520 gave those people more. It was just fueling the fire. 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.000 And I think if I had been in a different 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.880 state of mind where it's like, yeah, I'm gay, I 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.040 think it would have burst their bubble and that would 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.440 have probably made life a little easier for me. But 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:23.680 that's not a way, right, So anyway, it was horrible. 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.280 I'd have to invent different ways to get home, like 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:27.320 every day. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.080 Like I'd walk a different way, and they were bullying 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.240 you for being gay. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.160 Totally yeah, oh yeah. I would come to school in 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.039 like skin tight jordash jeans tucked into cowboy boots and 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.880 a perm. I had a perm and they're calling me 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.000 bag and I'm like I am not and it's like, girl, 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.600 you got a perm. So it wasn't even like I 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.960 was trying to mask it, which I couldn't. There was 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.840 no I mean I was a big sissy, so there 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.640 was no masking it anyway. And then at some point 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.080 I kind of discovered I think I was a senior 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.000 actually in high school where I was doing something in 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.760 theater and on stage and making people laugh and I 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.880 was like, oh, I'm making them laugh as opposed to 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.520 you know, they're kind of classically Are they not laughing 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:26.160 at me? They're laughing because I'm controlling why they're laughing. 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.640 And that's when I was like, oh, Okay, this is 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.680 going to be a powerful tool. And also in that 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:39.360 time didn't have gay and straight alliances like high schools 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.840 have now, and didn't have Ellen, Will and Grace, all 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.680 of these things that might have made it easier. Gay 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:51.600 representation was not positive. Like I remember seeing the movie 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.559 Cruising when I was like fifteen, and I remember leaving 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:59.000 that movie like that's not I definitely am not that 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.720 It's about a serial killer within the kind of s 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.240 and m leather gay community of New York City, and 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:11.320 it was really graphic and dark and scary. Are you 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.760 had drag queens that were always kind of like the sad, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.160 pathetic gay man who did drag for attention or whatever. 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.560 It's just like there wasn't a lot of positive reinforcing 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:29.160 gay a representation. Yeah, my parents loved Carol Burnett's show, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.200 they loved the Share Show. So we it would like, 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.880 you know, a family thing to sit and watch these shows. 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.840 And my mom will tell a story of like I 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.880 was like three or four years old and Carol Burnett 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.400 would be on it. I would point to the TV 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:42.680 and be like, that's what I want to do, Like 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:44.640 what do you want to do when you grow up? That? 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.800 And there was no plan be ever. I mean, it 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:51.880 was very clear I was going to be a performer 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:58.640 day one, and luckily they were super super supportive about that. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.720 So tell me about how you got into drag. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.120 Well, I consider what I do acting. There was no 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.120 doubt that I was going to be an actor. And 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.199 the drag part came about when I was in grad 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.200 school getting my master's degree in Fine Arts at USC 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.160 and I had a teacher, Anna Deavere Smith, who's a 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:25.880 really amazing, amazing actress. She was the guest teacher, and 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.920 we had this project where we had to spend time 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.040 with like three different people, real people, and then write 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:37.320 a monologue about the conversations. And I picked this businessman, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.880 like very straight, kind of Wall Street type businessman. I 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.160 picked this kind of nerdy art director who was actually 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.320 an art director on The Peewee Herman Show. And I 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.040 picked this drag queen and West Hollywood who was a 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.440 little bit more what we would call old school like 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:59.520 beaded gowns, glamour like glamour glamour. So in my mind, 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:05.000 I wasn't doing drag as much as I was portraying 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.160 this character who happened to be a drag queen. And 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.920 after the presentation, Anna told me a sound and she's like, 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:17.079 there's something about when you were in drag that resonated, 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:21.040 and she was brutally honest. She pulled me. She was like, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.280 you're gonna have a really, really hard time in Hollywood 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.360 because you don't fit any time. You're not the leading man, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.680 you're not Tom Cruise, you're not really nerdy, you're not 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:34.360 really offbeat like drug e looking, gangster whatever, like you 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.840 don't fit any of the characters. And she said, you're 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:43.640 you need to create your own path, carve your own path, 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.280 find someone to write for you, find a director, create 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.400 a company, and create work for you, because otherwise you're 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.960 gonna have a hard time. And I really listened to that, 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.440 and I really took those words to heart, and that's 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.760 exactly what I did. So how did you come up 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:04.920 with Sherry Vaughn Well? I started doing performing with my 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.720 friend Robbie Daniels in La the two of us not 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.240 in drag, but we would write parodies of songs and 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.880 one day we wanted to this parody at the Price 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.319 Is Right, and he wanted me to be the showcase model, 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.000 and I was like, okay, I could do that, and 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.839 oh it's drag great and went to my friend Carrie 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.440 French's house. She was a burlesque performer. She had like 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.520 tons of gorgeous costumes and she dressed me, and my 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.760 friend did my hair and someone else did my makeup 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.400 and came on stage and I had this voice like, hey, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.520 it's me. I'm Shery, and that's literally how I was born. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.800 Then I was like, okay, I don't know if I 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.600 want to be a drag queen full time. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:46.080 Oh wow. 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.480 No, I was like I wanted to be a movie star, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.559 so this was still like character work for you for sure. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.800 And then I was in a play called Spira Keet 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.280 that my friend Josh, who wound up being the director 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.959 of theater tour, but this was in la he had 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.520 his own theater company there. I was in that play 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.320 as a man and this woman Robin sang the song 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.560 black Coffee, this torch song, and I would sit in 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:14.040 the wings every night just watching her, obsessed with that song. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:16.560 I was like, I want to sing that song, but 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.840 no one wants to see some skinny boy sing that song. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.079 So I said, wonder if share what it would happen 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.440 if Sherry sang that song. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.079 Because you had already created Sherry from like the price 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:29.640 is right correct. 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.000 But it wasn't like a decision to kind of pursue 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.360 it as a career. The first time I performed Black Coffee, 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.760 I had this big blonde bubble wig, and I don't 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:44.120 think that I looked glamorous. I was the character is 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.720 supposed to be kind of like a slightly broken down, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.319 tattered show. 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.240 Girl, and how did the audience react? 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:57.240 What I walked away with from the audience was I 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.120 haven't seen anything quite like that. And that's the first 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:05.160 time that I really did something by myself as Sherry, 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.840 and it just like took off. My befriend, Doug, who 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.240 was living in New York. I told him about doing 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.520 drag and He's like, I'm going to write a play 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:16.880 and you're gonna come to New York and play the mother. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.280 I remember having this conversation with Doug where he was like, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.760 why are you fighting not wanting to be a drag queen? Like, no, 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.600 I'm an actor, I'm not a drag queen. I'm an actor. 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.520 I'm not a drag queen. Why are you fighting that 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.280 you doing something that there is an audience for and 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.240 people want to see? And I was like, maybe you're right. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:42.439 And as soon as I let go of clinging onto 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.400 what I thought was my dream, as soon as I 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.560 let go of that and kind of embraced it, I 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.480 was like, oh, this is one hundred percent the path 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:59.280 that I am supposed to be on. Wow. And then yeah, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.160 there was just no out that is amazing. Yeah, and 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.360 hear we are thirty four years later, which is crazy, 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.640 but I mean I just clearly remember it. And then 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.520 that was it. I mean, it just kind of exploded. 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.600 What was that like moving to New York doing drag 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.160 in the early nineties. 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.200 I think now a lot of people who start drag 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.200 are like, oh, I want to be a TV star, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.360 I want to be rich and famous or whatever. Great, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:32.800 but that wasn't an option back then. No one was 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.160 like I'm going to do drags, I can be rich 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.000 and famous. This was not a possibility. 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:39.480 Wow. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.640 Drag was still was not considered a legitimate art form. 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.680 It was very fringe and you had to have a 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.120 calling for it. Now it's very different. So anyway, it 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.600 just felt like this calling. But like I said, it 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.880 was a very different time. I remember I lived on 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.680 Third Street and Avenue C. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:01.240 That's pretty far out. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.680 Oh and honey, let me tell you in nineteen ninety two, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.000 that was no man's land. Wow, Okay it was. You 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.680 couldn't get a tax viar car in New York City. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.680 In New York City, it was real. And I would 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.920 work at mostly like at the Pyramid in place in 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.920 the eastward, and I had to walk, and I didn't 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.480 have any money, so I had to. 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.480 Walk in your day drag wow. 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.880 And I just remember being like, Okay, this is my time, 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.760 this is my time to go, Universe, please help me 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.040 get to Pyramid tonight without being killed. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.000 Yeah, tell me about that. What was it dangerous at 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.239 that point to be walking around the drug. 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.400 Yes, yeah, I mean I'd been chased down the street 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.040 with baseball guys with baseball bats. I've had bottles thrown 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.320 at me. I mean, yes, it was dangerous. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:51.560 It was all around that time. 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:57.600 Yeah, I did kind of become friendly with the guys 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.120 that were dealing drugs on street corner. I wasn't buying drugs, 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.360 but I was like flirting and like whatever, and they're like, 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.840 don't worry, I got you, I got your mama, and 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.560 they kind of had my bag. And then like a 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:17.800 year later, RuPaul's came out with Supermodel, and that literally changed. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:22.760 Like I can remember the moment where things changed, because 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.360 one night I'm walking from my house to the Pyramid 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.160 and people are like you freak, you're a man, and 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.840 then all of a sudden they're like work Supermodel. 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:34.680 Wow. 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.640 Like then literally changed the way people started looking at 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.640 drag queens and made it a little easier to like 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:44.360 walk around. 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.040 RuPaul had released the song Supermodel in nineteen ninety two, 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.080 and its impact was huge. It became a dance floor anthem, 0:16:54.680 --> 0:17:01.360 but also brought drag into America's mainstream consciousness. Meanwhile, Sherri 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.680 was having the time of her life in downtown New 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.000 York City being a full time drag queen. Tell me 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.200 about what nightlife was at that point being a drag 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:12.680 queen in New York. 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.680 He had to work every single night of the week, 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.480 two or three shows whatever to pay rent and live because, 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.080 like I said, it was not considered a legitimate art form, 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:27.399 but it was really fun. It was really really fun 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.719 New York City in the nineties, there were a million 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.440 things to do every single night of the week. Wow, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.160 Monday through Sunday, there. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.480 Was you're talking about going out, going out. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.240 We would do shows. We'd get paid for that. There 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:46.200 was Mark Berkeley ran this empire of big, big gay parties, 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:51.000 like huge, big mega parties, and they would pay us 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.399 just to show up and walk a hang out. We 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.880 would show up, He'd give us a handful of drink tickets, 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.439 and we were getting paid to hang out for a 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.280 couple of hours. Then we'd leave and go. It was 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.320 somewhere else so you could make a living. Not no 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.159 one was getting rich, but you could pay rent and 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.720 get by. There was Squeezebox, which I think started in 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.919 nineteen ninety three. Michael Schmidt started it and it was 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.359 like a gay rock party and it was insane. This 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.840 just before everyone had a camera on their phone. So, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.520 I mean, I can remember Drew Barrymore dancing topless on 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.080 the bar and getting on Debbie Harry was always there, 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.280 and John Waters and getting on stage with Green Day 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.159 and Nina Hagen and Jone Jett. I mean, it was 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.280 just endless, and it was every Friday night and they 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.800 need have all these like straight guys who were just like, oh, 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:46.080 this is my chance to kind of experiment. And then 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.600 there was Bardeaux and it was this live singing cabaret 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.440 and it was really the only place in town where 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:56.040 it was all drag, live singing, and it just really worked. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.639 And it was another thing that was just there was 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.400 a line down the block every night to get in 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:07.840 and it was fun. I mean it was the same 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:13.639 time as AIDS, but I think the night life was 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.640 so much fun. Also, in spite of. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:37.800 AIDS, Sherry was enjoying the nineties New York nightlife scene 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:42.000 as a drag queen. New York was affordable and incredibly fun. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.879 But at the same time AIDS was happening. For the 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:51.440 gay community, this was an extremely dark time and many 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.159 turned to drag shows as a way to escape the 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:59.879 pain of their lives, the loss, the grief, the unfairness 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.720 it all. Sheery was one of the many performers giving 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.480 them that escape through her shows. But one signature part 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.679 of her drag was that she never got political. So 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.280 it was a sounds like a really magical time to 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:22.320 be working in part of it. Yeah, well, I you 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:28.760 know that something about your drag sheery is that you 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:32.800 never really get political. It seems that you sort of 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.480 like to create this atmosphere where the audience can kind 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.080 of escape almost for a little bit. Tell me about that. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.280 I wasn't consciously trying to not be political. It just 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.560 was like I was the comedy queen. My job is 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:52.199 to make people laugh. I'm very political. I read the 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.560 news every single morning. I read I think I'm pretty 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:57.800 sharp on what's going on in the world. I have 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:04.000 an opinion, I vote, but I don't integrate that into 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:05.240 my act. 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:11.719 Historically, drag has always been an escape for queer people, 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.840 the performer and the audience to escape kind of the 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:21.320 pain of gay life or queer life. And I wonder 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.919 if back in the day you were kind of conscious 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:24.439 of that. 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.160 Well, yeah, I mean certainly. I did a show once, 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.040 I think it was in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia, and this 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.159 guy came up to me after the show crying and 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.720 he's like, my lover died of AIDS. I'm going to 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.520 lose my home because I don't have I can't afford 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.840 to stay there, and my life has been in and 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.480 I was thinking about ending it. In Da Da Da 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.240 you literally made me forget about that for a half hour, 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.840 and I was like, Okay, I didn't cure anything. I 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:58.560 didn't solve any problems, but I gave this person relief 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.119 for a half hour, and maybe that's all it was. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.960 But I was like, that's my job. 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.679 What was it like being a drag queen in the 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:12.280 nineties in New York City, which was sort of like 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.359 one of the centers of the AIDS crisis. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.040 It was a scary time. It was a sad time, 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.280 it was a dark time, it was an angry time, 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:30.439 and somehow, like I said, I think people were like, 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.840 I'm gonna go out and have fun. This part of 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:38.280 my life is horrible, so horrible and dark. I mean 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.080 I was going to a memorial service every other week. 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:46.199 So there was all that, and then there was just 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.360 something about I'm going out tonight. I'm going to see 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:51.200 this drag show and laugh and I'm gonna get laid 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:53.120 whatever it was, do you know what I mean? Like 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.840 I'm not going to let it kill me until it 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:58.359 kills me or whatever. I don't know. 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.040 We actually had someone from Act Up come on the 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:07.760 show and she had described one of the most magical 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.840 parts of Act Up. They would go out to these 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:15.280 drag shows and it would sort of be an escape 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:21.280 for them to immerse themselves in fun and play while 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:25.520 they were outside of that, you know, fighting so hard 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:29.160 to survive. I wonder what was it like to kind 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.480 of live in between those two worlds, Like, for example, 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:40.399 you are an entertainer helping this community kind of have 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.679 a few moments of living outside of their misery, but 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.200 then you're also part of the community and you're being 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:49.960 affected by the AIDS crisis too. 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:54.280 Well, it was intense. I mean I marched with Act 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.880 Up in drag. I went to the March on DC 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:01.280 in drag. Yeah. I mean, look, I can't think of 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:07.359 any one day in certainly the first half of the 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.879 nineties where I didn't know someone who was dying. Wow. Period, 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:19.840 for sure, someone was always dying. So it was. And 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.480 my best best friend, who had started the theater company with, 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.720 who was my roommate, died of aides in ninety five. 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:30.560 I mean it was horrible. I remember being in complete denial, 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.800 like the fact that he could actually really die, And 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.520 I remember going to see him in the hospital and 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.080 he was on a stretcher in the hallway because I 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:41.000 didn't even have a room, like as sick as he was, 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:43.800 we just were kind of like, he's gonna be fine. 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:45.600 And then he came home and he kind of was 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:48.120 a bit better. And then, like I said, I think 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.680 we were all just in denial, like he really wasn't better, obviously, 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.520 but we were just coming he's home, he's gonna be fine. 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:59.639 And we left at Christmas. I went to my parents' 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:02.560 and he went to his parents and he never came back. 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:08.440 When he died, it was like, wait, how how did 0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:11.880