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Speaker 1: Joining us now is Daniel Levy, the chairman of Tottenham

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Speaker 1: Football Club and the longest serving chairman in the Premier League.

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Speaker 2: Daniel, good, afternoon, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start with the quote that you've heard

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Speaker 1: a million times over comes from Sir Alex Ferguson that

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Speaker 1: dealing with Daniel Levy is more painful than hip surgery.

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Speaker 2: Is that a compliment?

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Speaker 3: You know? I just act in the best interest of

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Speaker 3: my club, so some people may take it not as

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Speaker 3: a compliment. I don't think you have to ask my fans.

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Speaker 1: Where do you think that reputation comes from.

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Speaker 3: Well, the answer is because we're tokey self sufficient. We

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Speaker 3: have to always try and work harder than everybody else,

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Speaker 3: maybe and drive a hard bargain. But I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to apologize for it. As I said, I'm acting in

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Speaker 3: the best interest of the club.

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Speaker 1: You're known as a hard negotiator from people who have

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Speaker 1: doubt with you over the last two decades. Can we

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Speaker 1: talk about Daniel Levy's art of the deal? What is

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Speaker 1: your approach to negotiating.

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Speaker 3: I always say to people that I think I'm tough

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Speaker 3: but fair and if you agree something to me with me,

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Speaker 3: I stick to him.

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Speaker 2: Was the Harry Kane transfer difficult.

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Speaker 3: Not particularly dealing with Bayern Munich. They were gentlemen. The

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Speaker 3: CEO of By I thought was exceeding nice gentlemen. We

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Speaker 3: went out for lunch. We've become good colleagues now and

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Speaker 3: I look forward to our next transaction together.

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Speaker 2: When did Harry come to you and say it's time

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Speaker 2: to going, I'm leaving.

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Speaker 3: I don't think. It wasn't really like that with Harry.

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Speaker 3: So Harry was willing to stay, but he wasn't willing

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Speaker 3: this summer to sign a new contract. He didn't say

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Speaker 3: that to me that he wants to leave. He didn't

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Speaker 3: say that he would never sign a new contract. We

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Speaker 3: wouldn't commit this summer, and of course we were in

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Speaker 3: a very difficult position. Had one year on his contract,

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Speaker 3: and as a club, as I said, were self sufficient,

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Speaker 3: we couldn't live in a dream that he would sign

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Speaker 3: a contract. We had no guarantee. And therefore, when Bayern

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Speaker 3: Munich came along, he was willing to go to buyer

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Speaker 3: Munich and we agree to deal.

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Speaker 1: You've since disclosed there is a buy back clause. That's

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of attention and a lot of fans excited.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about the terms of that buy back clause.

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 3: If I'm honest, I think you know the actual precise

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Speaker 3: detail of the contract with Bayern Munich should remain confidential.

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Speaker 3: All I would say is if Harry one day wants

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Speaker 3: to come back to the Premier League and he wants

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Speaker 3: to come to top them, we would have the ability

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Speaker 3: to a purchase him.

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Speaker 2: Could you give us some idea.

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Speaker 1: Is that a set price at a defined time or

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Speaker 1: is it a set price across any time of the contract?

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Speaker 3: As I said, it's confidential.

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Speaker 1: You've revealed just a little bit. The prospect of Harry

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Speaker 1: came coming back to the football club is something you

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Speaker 1: would welcome.

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Speaker 3: You know, Harry was a great servants the club, an

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Speaker 3: amazing player, someone that came from our academy. But you know,

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Speaker 3: you can't look into the future.

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Speaker 1: Who knows is a contract in football? What it used

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Speaker 1: to be a commitment and to a football club across

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Speaker 1: a defined period or a way that a football club

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Speaker 1: maintains value of the asset the football player. How do

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Speaker 1: you see contracts now? Have we lost that commitment to

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Speaker 1: the club they agree to be with?

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Speaker 3: I think like and everything depends on the individual. Harry

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Speaker 3: was absolutely committed. You could see that every game that

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Speaker 3: he appeared in. Other players maybe different. Let's do with personality.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's do with contracts.

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Speaker 1: We talked a lot about Saudi Arabia and the disruption

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Speaker 1: and this summer transfer window, not just for English football,

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Speaker 1: for the whole European football. Are you're getting players knocking

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Speaker 1: the door now saying I've seen Naymas contract in the

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Speaker 1: newspaper and I want a slice of that.

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Speaker 2: Has this changed things for you?

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Speaker 3: I think you have to look at the Saudi Arabia situation.

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Speaker 3: As you know, it gave a huge influx of money

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Speaker 3: into the market. The market is particularly tough outside of

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Speaker 3: the UK at the moment, and I don't see that

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Speaker 3: what's happening in Saudi Arabia is going to have any

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Speaker 3: direct bearing in terms of player contracts.

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Speaker 2: What do you expect it will change, Well, it's.

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Speaker 3: Another market for players to look to. Not every player

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Speaker 3: will want to go to South Araba, but just as

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Speaker 3: not every player wants to go to Germany or France

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Speaker 3: or or whoever.

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Speaker 1: It's a price insensitive buyer coming into the market. Was

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Speaker 1: surely changed things drastically. You're now competing with clubs that

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Speaker 1: have ties to sovereign nations.

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Speaker 2: Does that make it.

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Speaker 1: Harder now to succeed on the field than when you

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Speaker 1: first started more than twenty years ago leading this football club.

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Speaker 3: I think it's very different now. I think that now

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Speaker 3: there's a lot more money in the game, which does

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Speaker 3: create its own complications. However, there's now new rules being

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Speaker 3: introduced where they want to create a dynamic where clubs

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Speaker 3: are much more self sufficient, So I think that will

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Speaker 3: involve cost control measures. We've really seen you afree introduce

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Speaker 3: new regulations, so I think it won't be as dramatic

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Speaker 3: as people think in terms of the new influx of

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Speaker 3: money because I think we're going to have to operate

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Speaker 3: within new rules.

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Speaker 1: Do you sense that uayfais bark is worse than it's

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Speaker 1: bite sometimes that it talks a lot about doing these things,

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Speaker 1: but certain clubs are able to bend the rules and

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Speaker 1: get around it without much punishment.

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Speaker 3: That there may have been the situation historically, but I

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Speaker 3: think now there's a genuin willingness throughout football that we

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Speaker 3: need to get a house in order, we need to

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Speaker 3: be self sufficient to protect the clubs that we all love.

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Speaker 1: When you say we are you talking about Tottenham or

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Speaker 1: are you talking about Manchester City parasnage Man.

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Speaker 2: I'm all of football.

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Speaker 3: I am talking generally across football. Obviously there's always going

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Speaker 3: to be exceptions, but I think fans, I think that

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Speaker 3: the owners of clubs throughout Europe want to make sure

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Speaker 3: that their clubs are self sufficient.

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Speaker 1: Joe Lewis has got his own legal problems. He's transferred

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Speaker 1: his hold in the football club to family trust. We

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Speaker 1: understand that dynamic and how things have changed in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years on that front. Technically that means

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Speaker 1: you no longer have that big billionaire backer. Do you

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Speaker 1: need one to succeed? Is that something that Totenham needs?

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Speaker 3: Well, firstly, you know, the ownership for Tottenham has been

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Speaker 3: of no relevance to the operations of Totenham for the

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Speaker 3: last twenty plus years. It's always been self sufficient as

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Speaker 3: far as you know, very wealthy people owning football clubs.

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Speaker 3: As I said, the new rules now are going to

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Speaker 3: be engineered to such an extent that hopefully you don't

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Speaker 3: need to be a very wealthy owner in order to

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Speaker 3: have a successful club.

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Speaker 2: Would you be open to selling a steak?

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Speaker 3: I've always my answer that question has always been the

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Speaker 3: same for twenty three years. We have thirty thousand shareholders, yeah,

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Speaker 3: who own a proxibly thirteen and a half percent. We

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Speaker 3: run this club as if it's a public company. If

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Speaker 3: anyone wants to make a serious proposition to the board

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Speaker 3: of Totenlam, we will consider consider it along with our advisors,

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Speaker 3: and if we felt it was in the interest of

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Speaker 3: the club, we would be open to anything.

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Speaker 2: Has anyone made an offer.

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Speaker 3: Over the years, Many people have made offers, but there's

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Speaker 3: never been an offer that's been well.

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Speaker 1: Give us an idea of what those offers have looked like.

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Speaker 1: Where have they come from?

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Speaker 3: All parts of the world, the Far East, the Middle East, America.

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Speaker 3: But nothing has been put on our table that we

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Speaker 3: felt it has been in the interest for shareholders.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean it was just insufficient in terms of size,

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Speaker 1: or it was the wrong kind of people in the

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Speaker 1: wrong kind of contract.

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Speaker 3: Lots of reasons for us as a board, we look

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Speaker 3: at the you know, we're only custodians of this club.

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Speaker 3: We want to say this club to another level. I

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Speaker 3: think we've shown progression over the last twenty years. We've

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Speaker 3: made a big investment in our capital projects in our

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Speaker 3: team and if someone came along and we felt it

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Speaker 3: could take us to another level, we'd look at it.

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Speaker 1: For you personally, being at the club for more than

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Speaker 1: twenty years, the last big title, if we can call it,

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Speaker 1: that was the League cant back in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: From your perspective, how will you know when your time

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Speaker 1: is up it's time to walk away and actually actively

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Speaker 1: look for that change in ownership?

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Speaker 2: How would you know? What would you look for? What

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Speaker 2: would be the taut.

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Speaker 3: I've got no real interest to leave Totenham, but I

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Speaker 3: have a duty to consider anything that anyone may want

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Speaker 3: to propose. And it's not about me, it's about what's

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Speaker 3: right for the club.

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Speaker 1: The stadium has been a big project for you and

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Speaker 1: clearly that's right for the club, and other people are

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Speaker 1: starting to copy you as well. How big of initiative

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Speaker 1: has that been for Tottenham Football Club? And how do

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Speaker 1: you think it's going to really underpin the success and

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Speaker 1: not just years to come, but potentially decades.

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Speaker 3: I think people don't realize how big a project building

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Speaker 3: a stadium is. You know how that project took us

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Speaker 3: probably about seventeen eighteen years and start to finish. I

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Speaker 3: think you've got to take a very very long term view.

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Speaker 3: I think that obviously has a major impact on the club,

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Speaker 3: positive and negative, because you know, you don't build a

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Speaker 3: stadium for nothing. We've got more debt than an any

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Speaker 3: other club in Europe. Luckily for us, we managed to

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Speaker 3: fix the debt at a low interest rate, so we're

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Speaker 3: not really going to feel too much pain in paying

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Speaker 3: back the mortgage over the next thirty odd years. But

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Speaker 3: doing it today I think is very difficult.

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Speaker 1: A multi purpose stadium as well. It's not just about

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Speaker 1: football anymore, is it. It's music concerts, it's about everything, about

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Speaker 1: everything else and all above.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was done for two reasons. One of is,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you look at the cost of building

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Speaker 3: a stadium is talking about such huge sums of money.

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Speaker 3: In our case, it was one of a quarter of

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Speaker 3: a billion pounds. I think today it would be over

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Speaker 3: two billion. Wow. And you have to find ways of

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Speaker 3: paying for that asset. And just having football club football

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Speaker 3: games is not enough of income to So.

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Speaker 2: What does music bring in?

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Speaker 1: Daniel, give me an idea of what a Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: Beyonce music concert brings in for Tottenham.

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Speaker 2: How much money can you make from something like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, every concert's different every so it's not just concerts,

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Speaker 3: it's boxing, rugby, all all sorts of events. You're not

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Speaker 3: going to justify spending the money by all those other events.

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Speaker 3: What they do that they make a contribution to the

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Speaker 3: capital costs. I would say that over a four year

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Speaker 3: we may make twenty thirty million pounds of additional revenues

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Speaker 3: result in it.

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Speaker 1: And what's the gate receipts look like? Just in terms

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Speaker 1: of football over a season? How does that compare? How

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Speaker 1: does that stack up?

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Speaker 3: Well, our gate receipts now are over over one hundred

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Speaker 3: million pounds.

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Speaker 1: A season, so you get about a third extra do

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Speaker 1: music concerts? What about naming the stadium? I've seen about

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Speaker 1: twenty different alley on stadiums around the world.

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Speaker 2: Now, what about naming the stadium? Where are you on

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Speaker 2: that now?

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Speaker 3: So the answer is, when we first started building stadium,

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Speaker 3: name rights was an important component. I would say that

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Speaker 3: as we've gone through the process and unfortunately the pandemic

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Speaker 3: interrupted that the strategy of finding the right naming rights partner,

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Speaker 3: we've sort of realized that the stadium we've created and

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Speaker 3: it has actually turned out better than we retionally intended

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Speaker 3: has created so much noise around the world that the

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Speaker 3: profile of our name tot Them Hotspur has grown, and

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Speaker 3: therefore we've seen another value. And so if we get

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Speaker 3: the right naming rights partner, and when I say that,

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Speaker 3: I mean somebody who pays the right money in the

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Speaker 3: right sector, then we're willing to consider doing it. But

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Speaker 3: we're not as tired to doing it now as perhaps

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Speaker 3: we would have been when when we first looked at

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Speaker 3: building the stadium.

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Speaker 1: I don't expect you to give me a price. But

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Speaker 1: when you said the right sector, what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess so, for instance, if it was in

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Speaker 3: the betting sector, probably that would be a sector we wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: That's not something you want to be a part of.

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Speaker 3: No, But you know, things change that I would say

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Speaker 3: at the moment, there isn't somebody that we're engaged with

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Speaker 3: today that I would be jumping up and down that

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Speaker 3: saying we must do this.

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Speaker 2: Have you changed your mind about it now?

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Speaker 3: As I said just before, I think we've realized that

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Speaker 3: the profile of all the events that we're having at

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Speaker 3: a stadium, in addition to soccer events, that it's really

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Speaker 3: helped the name of tot Hobspur and part of part

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Speaker 3: of what we're trying to do now is create a

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Speaker 3: bigger club. Everything we're doing is the football is at

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Speaker 3: the heart of what we're doing, and we need a

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Speaker 3: bigger fan base. So the relationship we now have with

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Speaker 3: form lu one and with the NFL is building a

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Speaker 3: new fan base for US.

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Speaker 1: Brand value and the site of the franchise. When you

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Speaker 1: go through the top ten most expensive, most valuable teams

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Speaker 1: in world sports, you find a lot of them in

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Speaker 1: the United States. From your perspective, what can be learned

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Speaker 1: about how those franchises are ran in the US. Is

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Speaker 1: there something unique about the businesses and the leagues and

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Speaker 1: the way they're constructed. Is there something we can learn

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Speaker 1: from them in the Premier League in European football, which depends.

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Speaker 3: How you define value. If you're defining it in terms

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Speaker 3: of the price that someone has bought one of those

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Speaker 3: clubs for, then the US at the moment with signify

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Speaker 3: that the value of those clubs is higher than what

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Speaker 3: they are in Europe, although I do think over time

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Speaker 3: that would change. If you talk about brand value, I

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Speaker 3: am not sure I agree. I mean Manchester United probably

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Speaker 3: has in Barcelona and those type of clubs probably have

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Speaker 3: far bigger brand value than some of the franchises in

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Speaker 3: the US.

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Speaker 1: You're having a better season. You seem to be in

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Speaker 1: a better place. Are you happy right now with how

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Speaker 1: things are going?

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Speaker 3: My feet at Fermi on the ground. We've played five

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Speaker 3: games and we've started off well, but it's how you

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Speaker 3: end that counts.

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Speaker 1: The mood around the club seems to have changed big

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Speaker 1: ange has he changed that.

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Speaker 3: He's had a very very big impact. We wanted a

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Speaker 3: manager that we need to go back in time to

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Speaker 3: our real DNA and we needed somebody that understood that,

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Speaker 3: you know what, there's no easy fixed to win. We're

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Speaker 3: very much a club that believes in the academy producing

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Speaker 3: players that can become hopefully superstars at Tottenham, we're not

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Speaker 3: a club that can buy success. That that's the reality

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Speaker 3: and we have to understand that. And we needed a

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Speaker 3: manager that was completely aligned with our philosophy. We needed

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Speaker 3: somebody that brought into that would relate to our players,

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Speaker 3: our players would fall back in love with the fans

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Speaker 3: and vice versa. And really it's so notable. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you come to our training ground now, the staff, our

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Speaker 3: stadium on a non match date, everyone is on the

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Speaker 3: same page.

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Speaker 1: You say we need to go back in time. You've

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Speaker 1: been a fan for life. Do you remember your first game?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I. I think I was seven or

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Speaker 3: eight years old and I got taken by my great

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Speaker 3: uncle and remember having a rosette and having a hot

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Speaker 3: dog and I was in the stands. It was an amazing experience.

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Speaker 3: And ever since then, I've been a fan.

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Speaker 1: Does it upset you when certain sections of the stadium

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Speaker 1: are saying Levy out and they're singing that on match day?

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Speaker 1: Do you hear that as a chairman watching the game.

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Speaker 3: I'm very thick skinned. I realized that when the team

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Speaker 3: is winning, the manager's a genius, and when the team's

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Speaker 3: not winning, the chairman's shouldn't be the chairman. I ignore it,

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Speaker 3: but it's not nice for a family.

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Speaker 1: Big ange has come after Antonio Conte and Jose Mourinho.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about dealing with difficult characters? What was

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Speaker 1: it like dealing with Antonio Conte near the end?

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Speaker 3: Do you know I had a good relationship with both

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Speaker 3: with both With both Jose and Antonio, they're different and

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Speaker 3: you know, as I said to my fan forum a

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Speaker 3: couple last night, I said to them. You know, we

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Speaker 3: I made a mistake, mistake. They are great managers, they

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Speaker 3: were just not right for this club. And you know,

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Speaker 3: the way they want to win is different really for

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Speaker 3: how we need to win.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? They're proven winners?

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Speaker 3: What does that mean? So? I think there's a couple

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Speaker 3: of things. I think our style of football that our

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Speaker 3: fans prave for is we want attacking football and if

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Speaker 3: that means winning four to three, then so be it.

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Speaker 3: Whereas I think their style of football is, you know,

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Speaker 3: they don't mind being defensive and winning one nil, and

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Speaker 3: we were in a situation where we were so desperate

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Speaker 3: to win. I think at that moment in time, when

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Speaker 3: I go back, you know, four or five years ago,

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Speaker 3: I think we would have one taken any way of winning.

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Speaker 3: But we didn't win. And therefore, when you don't win,

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Speaker 3: you get a very disgus, gruntle fan base with our fans.

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Speaker 1: Where did the pressure come from to begin with to

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Speaker 1: hire names like that? I was listening to the recent

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Speaker 1: fan forum you did and you mentioned that certain players

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Speaker 1: wanted a certain kind of manager. You alluded to that

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Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing to some extent. Were there certain players that

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Speaker 1: wanted that kind of name. Jose Meridio and Antonio Conte,

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Speaker 1: do they come and knock the door and ask for that.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't about the name. It was about

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Speaker 3: they wanted to win just as much as I did.

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Speaker 3: And then we'd got we'd come so close with Maritzo,

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Speaker 3: who was a great, a great manager, and he did

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Speaker 3: fantastic things for this football club, and we we got

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Speaker 3: we got frustrated, and I think we went through a

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Speaker 3: phase where we said, well, let's try something different and

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Speaker 3: it didn't work.

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Speaker 1: Define success for this season, Let's finish there. What is

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Speaker 1: success for you this year?

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Speaker 3: That's a difficult one for me to answer, because then

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Speaker 3: I think I'd be putting an unfair pressure on my

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Speaker 3: new coach. Honestly, I think for us though, we want

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Speaker 3: to play football where we're entertained. We want to come

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Speaker 3: to a game where we're looking forward to coming to

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Speaker 3: a game where we believe we have a really good

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Speaker 3: chance of winning. We just want to entertain our fans,

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Speaker 3: entertain and win, course, win, but win with style.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Levy, I can tell you this wasn't more painful

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Speaker 1: than have surgery. Thank you, sir, Daniel Levy, the chairman

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Speaker 1: of Tottenham Football Club,