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Speaker 1: If you asked me a few weeks ago about Andrew Jareki,

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Speaker 1: I would have told you about a brilliant director of

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Speaker 1: powerful documentaries Capturing the Freedmen's, The Chinks, and most recently,

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Speaker 1: The Alabama Solution. But if you asked me today who

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Speaker 1: Andrew Jareki is, I would tell you he's all that,

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Speaker 1: and he's also a good friend. We met by chance

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Speaker 1: at a small screening. When I asked him if he

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Speaker 1: knew where everyone was eating afterwards, he said, I think

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Speaker 1: it's at your house, Ruthie. At two am, Andrew and

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Speaker 1: I were still talking about films and family and food

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Speaker 1: and friendship. Today Andrew and I are round the table again,

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Speaker 1: this time in the River Cafe, and who knows, maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll be here still at two am. After all, we

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Speaker 1: are good friends. Something nice about that night, just being

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Speaker 1: in a home. Do you like home to be home

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Speaker 1: rather than restaurants?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I like to be home, and then I

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Speaker 2: especially like to be in someone's home if it's a

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Speaker 2: place that kind of expands your mind. And I've spoken

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Speaker 2: to people about you since we met, you know, saying

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Speaker 2: things that are obviously very effusive, and they say, well,

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Speaker 2: how long have you known each other and feel silly

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Speaker 2: saying not that long but.

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Speaker 1: Love it first sight. But I was going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the food of Alabama because your last movie, which

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Speaker 1: we did a screening last night, didn't you? How was that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we did screening yesterday. You know.

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Speaker 2: The film is basically an investigative piece that took around

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Speaker 2: seven years to make because I was interested in incarceration.

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Speaker 2: I was interested in how bad in prison I was.

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Speaker 2: I went to jail for one day because when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid, I there was a pilot circling around

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Speaker 2: a small airport and looked like he was in trouble.

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Speaker 2: And I climbed up the mini airport control tower and

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Speaker 2: I turned on the runway lights and when I came down,

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Speaker 2: there were Bobby's sitting there ready to arrest me.

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Speaker 3: I think I was sixteen.

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Speaker 1: And where was this?

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Speaker 2: I was in Tortola and the British Virgin Isles.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, I had the experience of being near prisons

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Speaker 2: because I had made in Capturing the Freedman's film that

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Speaker 2: included Jesse Friedman, who was sent to prison at quite

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Speaker 2: a young age. And I just remember prisons being very

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Speaker 2: secretive and very restrictive and couldn't understand why it was

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Speaker 2: so hard for me to interview somebody that was in

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Speaker 2: a prison that I was just being refused by the

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Speaker 2: prison administration. And so I always had that in my

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Speaker 2: mind and then making the jinks, you know, Bob Durst

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Speaker 2: was sort of the opposite. Here's a guy that had

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Speaker 2: all the money in the world and largely managed to

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Speaker 2: keep himself out of prison even though he'd killed a

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Speaker 2: few people. And so at one point my daughter, who

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Speaker 2: was fourteen, Army was reading a book by a guy

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Speaker 2: who had been wrongfully convicted in Alabama and had been

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Speaker 2: in the system for like thirty years. And then we

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Speaker 2: decided to take a road trip and we went to Montgomery,

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Speaker 2: Alabama to sort of see what we could see. And

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Speaker 2: we met a man there who was an older man.

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Speaker 2: I guess he was the first black prison chaplain in

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Speaker 2: the state of Alabama, appointed by George Wallace. I asked

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Speaker 2: him questions about the prison system, and he very pointedly

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Speaker 2: at some point said to me, well, if you come

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Speaker 2: back and volunteer, you'll be able to see what you

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Speaker 2: can see. And I said, well, if I come back,

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Speaker 2: what will I see? And he said, well, if you

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Speaker 2: come back to Alabama, I'll take you on the death

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Speaker 2: row at Holman Prison and you'll see it's a slave ship.

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Speaker 2: And that stayed with me, and I went back to

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Speaker 2: New York and got together with Charlottekauffman, who I made

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Speaker 2: the film with, and I said, I think we need

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Speaker 2: to go back and see what we can see. And

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Speaker 2: then when we went back, we were really prevented from

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Speaker 2: seeing very much in the prisons, but we discovered that

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Speaker 2: there was this network of people inside the prisons who

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Speaker 2: had access to contraband cell phones, and that becomes.

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Speaker 3: A big part of what the film is.

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Speaker 2: Now. We let now the men in the film can

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Speaker 2: tell their story and that I'd never seen, you know, before,

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Speaker 2: I'd never been able to hear directly from people who

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Speaker 2: are currently incarcerated, you know, not people who were saying, well,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, I was in prison or whatever,

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Speaker 2: but people were saying, this is what's happening to me

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Speaker 2: right now, including people speaking to people who are in

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Speaker 2: solitary confinement right now. But you know, food is very

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Speaker 2: important in the film because the whole reason that the

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Speaker 2: chaplain gets to go into the prisons and bring his

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Speaker 2: sort of religious observances there, and the reason they got

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Speaker 2: such a big audience and that people in the prison

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Speaker 2: really want to see him is that he goes in

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Speaker 2: and brings food. And the food in the Alabama State

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Speaker 2: prison system is so bad that they literally we have

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Speaker 2: images of meat and other food that they've delivered to

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Speaker 2: the prison for serving to the men that literally have

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Speaker 2: the legend outside not fit for human consumption. And so

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Speaker 2: when the chaplain comes in, you know, he's got a

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Speaker 2: kitchen in Montgomery, He's got a whole bunch of volunteers

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Speaker 2: and they make food for twelve hundred people and then

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Speaker 2: they loaded up in trucks. By the way, he doesn't

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Speaker 2: get paid to do this. This is just part of

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Speaker 2: his ministry. And they bring the food, and they bring

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Speaker 2: them things that they otherwise would never have in things

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Speaker 2: that are luxuries, you know, like little debbies, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of like a Southern you know, packaged food, or

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Speaker 2: he says, you know, I bring them ho hose. But

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Speaker 2: they also bring them roast chicken or fried chicken, and

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Speaker 2: they also bring them biscuits, and they also bring them

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Speaker 2: mashed potatoes. And you can see in the film that

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Speaker 2: they're serving him a piece of roast chicken, and the

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Speaker 2: guy we're talking to says, you know, they should show

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Speaker 2: you the meat that we get.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't look anything like this.

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Speaker 1: And also how food is used as an incentive to

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Speaker 1: acquiesce or taking it away to make them feel punished.

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Speaker 2: And the food, you know, in the prison, because it's

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Speaker 2: a because it's an economy of deprivation. Food is so

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Speaker 2: much more important for us. We're going to go and

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Speaker 2: have dinner to and I, and we're going to be

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Speaker 2: deciding how many pieces of focacio we're going to have.

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Speaker 2: For these guys, the prison is trying to manipulate them,

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Speaker 2: which they often are. They'll very often just cut off

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Speaker 2: the food supply, and they have such complete control over

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Speaker 2: these men's lives that they'll put people in a position

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Speaker 2: where they're getting very few calories to begin with. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're living on a diet that consists a lot of

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Speaker 2: rice crispy treats that they're getting out of the commissary.

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Speaker 3: Or ramen.

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Speaker 2: And I think, I think you have a population that's

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Speaker 2: sort of unhealthy and not able to become healthier because

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Speaker 2: they can't get access. And that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why you see people have been in prison for twenty years,

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Speaker 2: have a lot of trouble staying alive as long as

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Speaker 2: other people do because they've spent years being malnourished.

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Speaker 1: And how long did it take you? Seven years?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Why take it?

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Speaker 2: I think, first of all, it takes me a long

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Speaker 2: time to make a film, and I think it's partly because,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're trying to get to the essence of

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Speaker 2: a very complicated problem and trying to convey it in

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Speaker 2: a very simple way.

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Speaker 3: Relative to the problem.

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Speaker 2: I always have a blackboard in my wherever I am

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Speaker 2: in office, I always have an old fashioned blackboard. And

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Speaker 2: at the very beginning of this I wrote up this

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Speaker 2: mnemonic device that was smit whit nose and I said

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Speaker 2: to the team that was working on the film, I said,

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Speaker 2: this is This stands for how do we not make

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Speaker 2: the saddus movie in the world that no one ever sees?

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Speaker 2: And we had a strategy for how to do that.

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Speaker 2: It kind of makes you just, I don't know, it

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Speaker 2: motivates me. And when I talk to the men who

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Speaker 2: are inside, you know, I got to talk to Kinetic

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Speaker 2: Justice Robert girl counsel, who is such an important part

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Speaker 2: of the film. I feel like i'm talking to Mandela,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm talking to somebody who's not only

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Speaker 2: incredibly resilient and shows is a model of resilience in

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Speaker 2: the face of authoritarian power, but is somebody who is

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Speaker 2: able to motivate others, is able to lead, you know,

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Speaker 2: is so thoughtful and so inspiring. One of the ways

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Speaker 2: that the men respond to this horrible brutality that's happening

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Speaker 2: in the prison system is they go on strike. They say,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to do free work anymore in the

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Speaker 2: prison until we have conditions that are livable. And the

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Speaker 2: way that the administration response to that is by cutting

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Speaker 2: off a food supply. And they're not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 3: It's not legal.

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Speaker 2: You can't have somebody who you have total control over

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Speaker 2: and then just stop feeding them because you're killing them.

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Speaker 2: But that's exactly what they did. In Alabama. They did

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Speaker 2: what's called bird feeding, which is they put just enough

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Speaker 2: food in the plate that it kind of seems like

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Speaker 2: they're feeding somebody something, but it might just be a

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Speaker 2: piece of white bread and a string bean, and it's

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Speaker 2: you know, sending a message that you're not getting fed

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Speaker 2: until you do what we say. And the other inspiring

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Speaker 2: thing is you see that the men have before the

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Speaker 2: strike happens, they've all gone to whatever sources of food

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Speaker 2: they had, right, so they've taken whatever little money they've had,

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Speaker 2: and they've bought all the rice crispy treats or all.

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Speaker 1: The rime that they said they got an oreo cook.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they and then they share those And that's a

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Speaker 2: beautiful thing, right that people who are in this economy

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Speaker 2: of deprivation, they really don't have access to anything much

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Speaker 2: that those people are sharing resources with each other. One

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Speaker 2: of the things that you learn, I think, or learn

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Speaker 2: about in the film is what happens when you have

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Speaker 2: authoritarian power and you have complete power over a population,

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Speaker 2: which is obviously what's happening in a number of countries

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Speaker 2: in the world right now, is you have these sort

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Speaker 2: of dictatorial leaders and when you have total control, including

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Speaker 2: control over whether somebody can eat or not or what

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Speaker 2: they eat, you really are infiltrating every aspect of their

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Speaker 2: life and personality. And one of the things that's inspiring

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Speaker 2: about the men in this film who somehow, after years

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Speaker 2: and years and years of deprivation and after years of abuse,

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Speaker 2: are still somehow optimistic, are still willing to engage. You know,

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Speaker 2: work strike for example, that's a peaceful protest. Even though

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Speaker 2: they're peaceful, protests are always met with violence by the authorities. You,

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Speaker 2: I think take a lot of heart in that.

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Speaker 1: What was your home like growing up? What was home?

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Speaker 1: Where was home?

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Speaker 3: I sort of.

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Speaker 2: Lived between Manhattan and Westchester County. Were in New York,

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Speaker 2: and my mom was a huge part of our upbringing.

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Speaker 2: My parents have been together since they were sixteen, and

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Speaker 2: they're now both in ninety two. They met on the Wolverine,

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Speaker 2: the train that goes from New York to Michigan, and

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Speaker 2: they both Back in the day they would skip you

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Speaker 2: grades if you were doing well in school, so they

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Speaker 2: both skipped two grades and they went to University of

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Speaker 2: Michigan when they were Yeah, they connected on the train

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Speaker 2: and then stay together in one form or another for.

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Speaker 1: A very ninety time. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But my dad is a big kind of world beater,

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Speaker 2: getting out there and you know, slaying dragons and things.

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Speaker 2: And my mom was definitely the one who had the

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Speaker 2: responsibility and thrill of raising me and my brothers. You know,

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Speaker 2: my grandparents came to America, I think with my dad

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Speaker 2: when he was around five years old, and they had

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Speaker 2: a very large business in Germany. I think they had

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Speaker 2: the largest shipping lines in Germany called Kunstmann, and they

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Speaker 2: had hundreds of ships, and all the ships were named

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Speaker 2: for the kids in the family. And then from one

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Speaker 2: day to the next almost they became Nazi warships. And

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Speaker 2: they moved to America and they came here and around

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 1: Seven seven, yeah, that's when my husband's family came from

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Speaker 1: Italy for the same reason. You know, suddenly they were

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Speaker 1: tresque Jews were suddenly you know, did they bring did

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Speaker 1: you and your grandparents?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 1: Did they bring their food with them? Did they live new?

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Speaker 1: Are you well?

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Speaker 2: First of all, I'm a giant fan of Italian food,

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Speaker 2: and my dad grew up I guess on German food,

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Speaker 2: So for me German, I have a difficulty with German food.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about German food. What is German food?

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Speaker 2: Somebody said to me recently, you know, how's your dad's health,

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Speaker 2: And I said, you know, he's an extremely good health

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Speaker 2: for a person whose diet consists primarily of a combination

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Speaker 2: of liverwurst and marts upon.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you know that those are his sort of his

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Speaker 3: favorite things.

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Speaker 2: Whereas on my mother's side. My my grandmother was very good.

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Speaker 3: At cooking things.

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Speaker 2: And I think when I was growing up, always going

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Speaker 2: to her house, she would make me simple things like

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Speaker 2: you know, cream of wheat with certain kind of brown

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Speaker 2: sugar and that was great.

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Speaker 1: Bores or kind of those.

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Speaker 2: I think she did some of that, and she was

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Speaker 2: very good at cooking, like brisket and things. And my

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Speaker 2: mom was actually very advanced.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: I remember when I was little, we went to this

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Speaker 2: store in Westport, Connecticut, and the new rage was people

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Speaker 2: eating insects.

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Speaker 1: I remember chocolate covered insects. Yeah, what year would that be?

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Speaker 1: Like this six?

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Speaker 2: It was sort of like, you know, like yeah, probably

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Speaker 2: around sixty eight, sixty nine.

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Speaker 3: Something like that.

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Speaker 2: But then my mom was very quick to feed me

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Speaker 2: steak tartart when I was a kid, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I remember just thinking, God, this is incredible, Like she

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Speaker 2: would she knew how to get the best beef, and

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Speaker 2: she knew that, and she was more sophisticated than the butcher.

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Speaker 2: And I remember the butcher writing on the butcher paper

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Speaker 2: when he would get her like the special high quality beef.

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Speaker 3: He would write.

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Speaker 2: Steak tata tata because he thought it was like a

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Speaker 2: high falutine thing. But then I remember my mom just

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Speaker 2: making little pinches of it and taking a little bit

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Speaker 2: of kosher salt and dropping it on there and saying,

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Speaker 2: you got to try this, and it was incredible. I

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Speaker 2: remember just feeling like it was this great secret that

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Speaker 2: my mom had. She loved food and she made sure

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Speaker 2: that I was exploring it. And I remember, you know,

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Speaker 2: friends of mine saying like, you can't eat raw meat,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, well, my mom.

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Speaker 3: Says that you can.

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Speaker 1: She work. Did she have a career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a writer at Time magazine, and she

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Speaker 2: was actually partners with John McPhee, who was a great writer.

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Speaker 2: And that was in the days when the women were

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Speaker 2: called researchers and the men were called writers. And then

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Speaker 2: she became the film critic, working with a guy named

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Speaker 2: Brad Dara, who was who was the unnamed Time Magazine

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Speaker 2: film critics. So they used to, you know, my mom

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Speaker 2: reviewed Felini's Eight and a half, which she did not.

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Speaker 3: Like, a negative review of it.

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Speaker 2: They didn't give her a byline almost ever. But over

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Speaker 2: time she did start to get named, and then she

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Speaker 2: was in the masthead. But also, you know, my mom

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Speaker 2: was working in the city, and I was working in

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Speaker 2: the city. My dad made sure that we started working

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Speaker 2: when we're like twelve years old.

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Speaker 3: On I worked.

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Speaker 2: I had strange jobs, but like I worked for a

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Speaker 2: rare coin dealer, a numismatist on West fifty fifth Street,

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Speaker 2: where I learned everything. I mean, it was just a

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Speaker 2: man with a shop who was making millions of dollars

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Speaker 2: just by being smart.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: He knew everything about history and about Greek and Roman coins,

307
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Speaker 2: and I was like cleaning them.

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Speaker 1: What did you do? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Lay cases?

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Speaker 2: But I was, you know, I picked up a lot

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Speaker 2: and it was just great to have a boss and

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Speaker 2: to have him tell me how you're supposed.

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Speaker 1: To work and yeah, so did you ever work in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant?

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Speaker 3: I never worked in a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Because it was Americans at some point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My dad always, I think, wanted us to learn about

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Speaker 2: business or which was strange because my sort of artistic

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Speaker 2: side was always something that my mom nurtured, not my dad,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think my dad ever really got it.

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Speaker 3: And also my mom I had.

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Speaker 2: Like when I was kind of bumping around in the

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Speaker 2: early days trying to figure out what to do, I

325
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Speaker 2: learned that I could do magic for like children's.

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Speaker 3: Parties, magic, magic, magic, and I could make.

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Speaker 2: Like thirty five dollars if I went and did a

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Speaker 2: birthday party. But I was only like twelve or thirteen

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Speaker 2: when I was doing it, So my mom had to

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Speaker 2: pretend to be my assistant. And so my mom helped

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Speaker 2: me take out an ad in the local paper, and

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Speaker 2: she helped me like lay out the ad and put

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Speaker 2: the top hat in the corner of it, and give

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Speaker 2: me a name.

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Speaker 3: I think I was called the Conjurer Extraordinaire.

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Speaker 2: And I would go to people's houses and I would

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00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,639
Speaker 2: invariably I would show up because they had no idea

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Speaker 2: that I was twelve. So I would show up for

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Speaker 2: a birthday party that was going to be like ten

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Speaker 2: or twelve year olds, and the mom would come out

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Speaker 2: and she would say, oh, come on in, the magician

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00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 2: will be here any minute, and then I would have

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Speaker 2: to go in there and do battle with these twelve

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Speaker 2: year olds and get them interested, which I did reasonably successful.

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Speaker 3: I learned it.

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Speaker 2: I think I largely learned it by going to a

347
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,439
Speaker 2: magic shop in Manhattan called Tannin's, which had been around

348
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Speaker 2: for many, many, many years, and it was basically like

349
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 2: six or seven magicians who would stand behind these counters

350
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Speaker 2: and they would just show you how to do stuff.

351
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Speaker 2: And it figured into my life a lot because when I,

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Speaker 2: you know, I had made some films. Then I had

353
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Speaker 2: a business for a long time, and then I went

354
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 2: back into filmmaking. And the first film that I made

355
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 2: was this film called Capturing the Freedmans, which started out

356
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 2: as a story about professional children's birthday party entertainers in

357
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Speaker 2: New York City. So I was kind of bringing myself

358
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Speaker 2: back to that odd period when I was doing that

359
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 2: as a kid, and then it became a very dark

360
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 2: story when I kind of discovered what it was about.

361
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Speaker 2: But it was this connection and my mom was the

362
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 2: person that drove me to the you know, magic shows

363
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 2: or take me to the library and let me go

364
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,639
Speaker 2: set up my stuff and do my thing. And she

365
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 2: would sit me in the car and just pour out

366
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 2: knowledge to me. You know, she would just tell me,

367
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 2: like every day we'd go on a drive and she'd

368
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 2: pick something that she wanted to tell me about. And

369
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,479
Speaker 2: then we had this thing. I would say, I oh,

370
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 2: which meant input overload. So if she was telling me

371
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 2: stuff and it was too much, and computers were just

372
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 2: becoming a thing, so computers would choke on information. They

373
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 2: would say input overloads. My mom would say, if I

374
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: ever tell you too much, just tell me I owe Mommy,

375
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 2: And I did, and I learned a lot.

376
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 1: When she was taking out doing this. Was there somebody

377
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,200
Speaker 1: in the kitchen cooking or.

378
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 2: My mom had kind of a partner who was an

379
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: incredible black woman from Virginia and was just a masterful cook,

380
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 2: like and made you know, fried chicken, and it just

381
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 2: made so much Southern food that I became really dependent on.

382
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: She just brought something to it that was like you'd

383
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 2: walk in the kitchen and she'd be cooking it, and

384
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 2: you'd see how many pieces of chicken you could eat

385
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 2: before she said, okay enough, I'm putting it on the

386
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 2: plate and I'm going to bring it out and then

387
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 2: we're going to have dinner. But she was also a

388
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 2: big part of my life, and I think there was

389
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: a little co parenting going on between her and my

390
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 2: mom because my dad wasn't around all that much, so

391
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 2: you know, she was there to kind of be the

392
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 2: relief pitcher.

393
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 3: But in the kitchen she was incredible.

394
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 1: What happened when you kind of left this attentive and

395
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: interesting growing up to go to Was that a big

396
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: change or was it?

397
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 2: I was always interested in making a theater and making film,

398
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 2: and I when I was in college, I directed a

399
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 2: lot of plays.

400
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 3: How did you Yeah?

401
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,119
Speaker 2: And then when I was getting ready to graduate, I

402
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 2: think my dad said to me, you know, what are

403
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: you doing? And I said, well, I'm going to go

404
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 2: to Yale Drama School for directing. And he said, well,

405
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,919
Speaker 2: just hold on a second, let's just talk about this

406
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 2: and basically said to me, you know, all the people

407
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 2: that we know that are artists, that are filmmakers are

408
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,719
Speaker 2: often manipulated by the people that understand business, and so

409
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 2: you know, you might want to consider the possibility of

410
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 2: going to business for a couple of years and learning.

411
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 2: If you learn what a treasury bill is, and you'll

412
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 2: learn how a contract gets written, then you'll be more

413
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 2: likely to be able to do what you want. And

414
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: it was a pretty persuasive argument. It was very much

415
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 2: in his interest because he wanted me to kind of

416
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 2: join him and thought he would eventually get my interest

417
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 2: up in doing business trying.

418
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: So, did you go to business school or not?

419
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 3: I didn't.

420
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 2: Actually, I actually got into Harvard Business School and I

421
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 2: went and visited, and I thought, oh, this is going

422
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 2: to be great. I'm going to do this, and ultimately

423
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: I just don't think my heart was in it. But

424
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 2: then I came up with an idea.

425
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: What was that?

426
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 2: So I was trying to go to the movies one

427
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 2: night and I was in Manhattan and I was calling

428
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 2: my local theater and it was busy. The number was

429
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: engaged because everybody calls the theater at the same time

430
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: the cinema to go to the movies, and I by

431
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 2: the time I got through from all the busy signals,

432
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: it was maybe you know, eight thirty, and the machine

433
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: told me the movie it started at age fifteen. So

434
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 2: I kind of moved, sort of missed my window, and

435
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 2: I remember sitting down and kind of sketching out what

436
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: just happened to me? And why is there this multi

437
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 2: billion dollar business that can't get my seven dollars out

438
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: of my pocket? And I couldn't see the movie that

439
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 2: I wanted to see. So I ended up starting this

440
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 2: service called movie Phone, which was became very popular on

441
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: the phone and then eventually on the internet. But there

442
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 2: was a way to serve all those people by having

443
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 2: a central number. So we came up with this number

444
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: seven seven seven film, and we got it in all

445
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: the various area codes, and we put it out and

446
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: started to have a call centers we just had. It

447
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: was all totally automated, so it was never a person

448
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: on the phone. It was sort of the early days

449
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 2: of interactivity. And so you could put in the first

450
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: three letters of Jurassic Park. You'd put it in jur

451
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 2: and it would say you've selected Jurassic Park. So it

452
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 2: was kind of like magic for the moviegoer because they thought, well,

453
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 2: I call this number, it's never busy, it's free, and

454
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 2: I can you know, and I can go to the movies.

455
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: And then I ran that business for eleven years. The

456
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: last film I'd made was eighty eight and then eighty nine.

457
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 2: We started the business, sold it in ninety nine and

458
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: immediately started making Capturing the Freedman's And then around that

459
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 2: time I moved to Rome with my wife and my

460
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: kids and.

461
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: How many children at that point.

462
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: We have three now, but at that point we had two.

463
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: And you know.

464
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: You just picked up and went to row why roam

465
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: when you were making movies in New.

466
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: York Because we had sort of sold the business and

467
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: were just in a moment when we were really free

468
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: to make a choice, and because our kids were growing

469
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: up in the Manhattan, we just thought, I think we

470
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: should get these kids and go somewhere really interesting where

471
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: they're going to be welcomed and they can learn the language.

472
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: And so we moved to Rome and it was it

473
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: was glorious. It was probably the best choice.

474
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: I did you live there two years?

475
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: Tell me more about the food in Rome. What do

476
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: you remember when you think that to those days?

477
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that being in a place where

478
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 2: you could have unlike limited truffles, being in a place

479
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 2: where you could have unlimited porcini mushrooms, being in a

480
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: place where the tomatoes were so extraordinary all the time

481
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: and you could have them all year. We got very

482
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: hooked on, you know, certain restaurants.

483
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: And it also teaches you a way to eat, doesn't

484
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: It's the idea that somehow you don't think about what

485
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: you're going to cook. You go to the market and

486
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: you sort of say, prcini are here, so we'll have porcini.

487
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: You know, the next week, we'll you know the idea

488
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: of kind of running around trying to find ingredients, but

489
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: kind of if you can just go to the market

490
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: and I think Italy is, so did you where did

491
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: you live?

492
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 2: We lived in an area called Sante Dooro, which is

493
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: basically between the Roman Forum and the foot of the

494
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 2: Palatine Hill.

495
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was really on one side.

496
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: We had the Chitko Massimo, where I would go running

497
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 2: and then you know, my kids would come home from

498
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: school and to really go to the Roman Forum and

499
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: be sitting at the Temple of Saturn, and then you know,

500
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: run around our neighborhood, which was this incredible cobblestone and

501
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 2: there was an extraordinary restaurant that was like half a

502
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: block from our apartment, and I would go in there

503
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: and I got to know the owner, and he showed

504
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: me so many things about the restaurant that I didn't know.

505
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: I didn't understand that there were machines that would reduce

506
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: the temperature of certain things, or that you could quickly

507
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 2: heat or de escalate, or you know, there were just

508
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: so many amazing techniques and things that I hadn't thought

509
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: about before. You know, I think I ended up getting

510
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: very fixated on this restaurant called Dat Pietro, which always

511
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: had a little basket in the window that had the

512
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 2: Tufi Bianci had the Portucini mushrooms, had this incredible access

513
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: to just great produce.

514
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: You know who showed up, Fish Stevens.

515
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: Andrew, the great Jreki you introduced us. So but you know,

516
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about. All right, So we're here,

517
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: we've been talking about food. So if we think about

518
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: food is also giving us comfort. Is there a food

519
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: that you would go to that would be a comfort

520
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: to you?

521
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so.

522
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: My friends, my best friend's grandmother used to the day

523
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: after Thanksgiving, make white toast with stuffing, granberry sauce, turkey

524
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: and tomato sandwich.

525
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: Do you make it? Sometimes?

526
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: I do?

527
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: Do you want me make it Thanksgiving?

528
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 3: Or do it with I do it sometimes?

529
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: I just do it when I need the when I

530
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: need to feel that feeling to talk.

531
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: About food and movies, film and what he's done. You know,

532
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: this film is so important to all of us. And

533
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: thank you for making it. Thank you for being here.

534
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's good, thank you, beautiful pleasure to be here.

535
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 3: It is a great fol.

536
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is proud to support Leukemia UK. Their

537
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises funds for vital research

538
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: and more effective and kinder treatments for a cute my

539
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: Lloyd leukemia. Please donate, and to do so search Cartwheel

540
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: for a cure.

541
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: Ruthie's Table four was produced by Alex Boo and Zad

542
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: Rogers with Robbie Hamilton, Andrew Sang and Bella Selini.

543
00:27:50,760 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: This has been an atomized production for iHeartMedia two