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Speaker 1: join this juicy movement. I'm still wondering what I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be when I grow up. I think, and when

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Speaker 1: I was eighty five, I decided who I was and

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Speaker 1: who I was going to be. And for eighty five

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Speaker 1: until hundred, I've lived an incredible life. Welcome to she Pivots.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. I had left my

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Speaker 1: decade long political career in DC after having my first

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Speaker 1: two kids during the Trump presidency and felt burnt out

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Speaker 1: after having my third child, spending a year in lockdown

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Speaker 1: with my family and another tough and exhausting election, I

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Speaker 1: began to find solace in the stories of women who

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Speaker 1: had made these big career decisions and then found success

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Speaker 1: and happiness and their change. I began to realize that

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Speaker 1: so many women had pivoted due to personal reasons, and

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Speaker 1: they still found success through non traditional packs. This new

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Speaker 1: show celebrates these stories, and I'm so excited to bring

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Speaker 1: them to you with She Pivots. Betty Readsaskin is one

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Speaker 1: hundred years old and has seemingly lived one hundred lives

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Speaker 1: in that time span. She is known best for being

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Speaker 1: the oldest park ranger in history, and retired at the

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Speaker 1: age of one hundred just a few months ago. I

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Speaker 1: was honored to interview Betty over the course of two

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Speaker 1: days to hear firsthand about her incredible life and her pivots. Sadly,

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Speaker 1: Betty suffered a stroke in twenty nineteen, which has impacted

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Speaker 1: her speech ever so slightly, but nevertheless her power behind it.

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Speaker 1: Every word is intentional. Born in nineteen twenty one, Betty's

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Speaker 1: journey started in Detroit, then to New Orleans, and eventually

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Speaker 1: bringing her to Richmond, California, where she still lives. She

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Speaker 1: married twice and each time found small creative ways to pivot,

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Speaker 1: whether it was through music, volunteering, or her children. She

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Speaker 1: didn't know she was pivoting at the time, nor did

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Speaker 1: she really feel like she was making decisions for herself.

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Speaker 1: The culmination of Betty's life is a collection of small

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Speaker 1: moments of resistance, which led to her historic role as

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Speaker 1: a park ranger. I'm Betty Red Saustin and I'm one

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Speaker 1: hundred years old. Now you started your adult life in

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Speaker 1: a fairly traditional homemaker way. Can you tell us about that? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I really had poor children, and they were my life

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Speaker 1: were Oh goodness, I can't imagine maybe fifty years. Betty

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Speaker 1: tells the story of her life in her book Signed

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Speaker 1: My Name to Freedom. We were lucky enough to use

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Speaker 1: excerpts from it. In any book about a life sits

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Speaker 1: reaching toward its tenth decade, far more is going to

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Speaker 1: be left out they can possibly be put in. One

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Speaker 1: regret I have is that there was not room enough

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Speaker 1: to put in more about my four wonderful children. Betty

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Speaker 1: had four children with her first husband, mel read Rick, Dory, Bob,

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Speaker 1: and Diara, who was born David. Early on in her

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Speaker 1: marriage with Mel they opened one of the first black

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Speaker 1: owned record stores in California. I want to read an

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Speaker 1: entry from Betty's blog, which she started in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three as a way to record her family history.

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Speaker 1: I was a very lonely young mother with four kids

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Speaker 1: and a very busy husband who left us to our

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Speaker 1: own devices most of the time while he ran the

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Speaker 1: small but successful business that supported us well. He was

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Speaker 1: a good man. He had a troubled wife, but he

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Speaker 1: surely didn't know it. So one of the important pieces

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Speaker 1: was opening the music store. Was that the first jump

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Speaker 1: that you made from being a homemaker to a homemaker

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Speaker 1: plus business. I think so, except that I don't really

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Speaker 1: remember feeling as if that was me. It was my husband.

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Speaker 1: I was worrying for my husband. I don't remember. I

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Speaker 1: don't recall ever realizing that that was something I was doing.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I felt myself until I was over fifty.

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Speaker 1: I thought of myself this housewife. I never really had

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Speaker 1: a job until till this, before or I divorced my

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Speaker 1: free husband. My first job when I became free was

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Speaker 1: at the University of California, and I was in a

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Speaker 1: class that was designed for people who were changing life's goals,

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Speaker 1: and the man who leading the class took me on

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Speaker 1: and told me that he was accepting a position at

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Speaker 1: the University of California. She spoke to William or Bill Soskin,

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Speaker 1: and they agreed that she would work for him for

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Speaker 1: two weeks to see if she enjoyed the work. If

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Speaker 1: she did, she could stay on, but if she didn't,

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Speaker 1: then she was off the hook. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the two weeks, I decided to just stay and became

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Speaker 1: the second in command a new university project. Betty married

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Speaker 1: Bill quickly after those two weeks, something Betty now looks

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Speaker 1: on as a crutch of sorts. I didn't know who

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Speaker 1: I was at the time, and I married him. There

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Speaker 1: wasn't more than weeks of gift months. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to be alone. I only knew who I

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Speaker 1: was in relation to someone else, and that happened until

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Speaker 1: I was eighty five. And when I was eighty five,

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Speaker 1: I decided who I was and who I was going

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Speaker 1: to be, and put eighty five until one hundred. I've

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Speaker 1: lived an incredible life. Betty and Bill eventually divorced, her

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Speaker 1: second and final, though still difficult, her experience with her

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Speaker 1: first husband, Mel was uniquely challenging. Here is a moment

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Speaker 1: where Betty recalls her mental break. I had a mental

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Speaker 1: break in my in my late thirties. I was a

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Speaker 1: lonely young mother in a failing marriage, with a troubled

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Speaker 1: adolescent son, struggling with his sexual orientation, with two little boys,

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Speaker 1: battling valiantly against racism in an all white world of

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Speaker 1: the suburbs, having to deal daily with rejection from an irrational,

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Speaker 1: hostile community because of their skin color, and just beginning

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Speaker 1: to come to turns with the growing certainty that my

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Speaker 1: beautiful three year old daughter had been born brain damaged

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Speaker 1: and would need a lifetime of constant care. I am

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Speaker 1: certain now that what was then seen as a mental

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Speaker 1: breakdown was an appropriate response to an impossible set of

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Speaker 1: life circumstances. The mind finds ways to protect itself from

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Speaker 1: what it cannot process. The only possible escape was to

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Speaker 1: move ever deeper into myself. By virtue of hindsight, I'm

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Speaker 1: beginning to see that the mental break may have marked

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Speaker 1: the point where I came to terms with the fact

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Speaker 1: that the source of all power is internal, where I

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Speaker 1: stopped looking for completion from outside myself. This may have

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Speaker 1: been the place where I grew up, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: dreaming huge dreams of power and rebellion, and starved for

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Speaker 1: freedom from a life with no access to the depths

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Speaker 1: of herself, trying terribly hard to fulfill the expectations of

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Speaker 1: marriage and motherhood. Can't remember the time of day or

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Speaker 1: what caused such a sense of determination and defiance. It

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Speaker 1: must have been an epiphany that heralded a major life change.

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Speaker 1: If I recall correctly, this preceded the beginnings of what

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Speaker 1: would later be diagnosed as a period of psychosis. And

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Speaker 1: looking back through a lens imbued with the wisdom of

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Speaker 1: accumulated years, I know that this was surely an unfortunate misdiagnosis.

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Speaker 1: It did not take into account the impossibility of being

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Speaker 1: seen in a world gone mad. And I began to

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Speaker 1: write music. But I thought I was remembering music. I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize I was writing music. I never wrote anything

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Speaker 1: that took more than about ten minutes, but I've never

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Speaker 1: did forget anything that I wrote. I can sing them

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Speaker 1: now to each of me, to each of me, to

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Speaker 1: love within the reach of me, and if this love

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Speaker 1: could teach me, why each of me in turn should

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Speaker 1: tourture so the soul of me and tear apart the

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Speaker 1: whole of me. Within life's play, each role of me

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Speaker 1: must speak to me, must learn. In nineteen eighty seven,

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Speaker 1: Betty found herself in a situation she could have never imagined.

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Speaker 1: She lost the three men who she had formed her

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Speaker 1: life around. Having grown up in the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: she saw her role as moving from father to husband.

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Speaker 1: At the time, it simply wasn't a question. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember anything except that in nineteen eighty seven, all the

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Speaker 1: men in my life died at one time. I think

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Speaker 1: that for most of my life I believed that I

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Speaker 1: came into my own only after being forced to confront

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Speaker 1: life without the men in my life who defined me.

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Speaker 1: I think that I saw them as a positive space

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Speaker 1: to my negative. There had always been the other half

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Speaker 1: of a whole. And after being refined by these three

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Speaker 1: men all my life, they left within three months, all

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Speaker 1: three of them. My husband, my first husband, who was

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Speaker 1: my good friend, thus my husband, my second husband, who

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Speaker 1: was also a good friend, and my father, who had

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Speaker 1: been pretty much my friend up until then. And I

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Speaker 1: didn't know who I was for another three months. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't imagine stream without them. But then I found at

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Speaker 1: the end of three months, I suddenly discovered that I

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Speaker 1: was no longer Betty Read or Betty's Charbonnet or Betty's Austin.

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Speaker 1: But Betty and I've been spinning off that Betty ever since.

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Speaker 1: How did that feel the first time you felt like somebody?

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure at first how it felt. I remember

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Speaker 1: looking to my children for Koo's it was sudden, I

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Speaker 1: have to be whipped out of being nobody to being somebody.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember every wanting to be something when I

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Speaker 1: grew up. I don't remember that. I don't remember that feeling.

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Speaker 1: I do remember I always found it after the fact,

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Speaker 1: never going in. But despite her lack of intention, her

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Speaker 1: list of accomplishments is long. She saved the record store

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Speaker 1: after her first husband, Mel lost track of the finances,

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Speaker 1: She got involved with her local political party, marched for

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Speaker 1: civil rights, and worked at the mayor's office. Because I

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Speaker 1: don't remember ever wanting to be anything and achieving it.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I only remember finding opportunities and

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Speaker 1: taking advantage of them, and simply moving one thing to

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Speaker 1: I could be something more. When I woke up and

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Speaker 1: found myself much more than that, I was surprised. I'm

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Speaker 1: still surprised, and move on, she did. In two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three, she was working in the State assembly Woman's

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Speaker 1: office and she attended a meeting that would change your life.

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Speaker 1: She sat in on a meeting to discuss the creation

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Speaker 1: of Rosie the Riveter Park to commemorate those who served

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Speaker 1: the World War two effort. Soon she realized the collection

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Speaker 1: of engineers, city planners, architects, historians, scientists, and National Park

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Speaker 1: Service staff simply did not understand the history that she

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Speaker 1: herself had lived through. The park was designed to honor

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Speaker 1: the women who had played a part in the war

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Speaker 1: by taking the place of men who were fighting overseas,

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Speaker 1: and that was not nearly as much as the job offered.

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Speaker 1: I was the only one who was in the room

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Speaker 1: for several years who is willing to speak out. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that I was the only one at

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Speaker 1: the time. Now I look back and I see that

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Speaker 1: I was the only one, and there were people who

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Speaker 1: were living on my words. I had no idea. Now

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Speaker 1: I know that I was the only person who was

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Speaker 1: willing to speak out tired of a that's interrupting your

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Speaker 1: gripping investigations. Good news AD free listening on Amazon Music

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Speaker 1: one more time LEV Evening and BA. Betty's work with

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Speaker 1: the park led to the implementation of stories and histories

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Speaker 1: that would otherwise be forgotten. Here's an entry from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three from her personal blog. This planning session

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Speaker 1: was the second, I've participated in, having been named to

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Speaker 1: the team by my office and as liaison from the

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Speaker 1: city as well. No one in the room realizes that

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Speaker 1: the story of Rosie the Riveter is a white woman's story.

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Speaker 1: I and women of color will not be represented by

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Speaker 1: this park as proposed, because what gets remembered is determined

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Speaker 1: by who's in the room doing the remembering. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: any grand conspiracy to leave my history out there. Simply

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Speaker 1: wasn't anybody in that room that had any reason to

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Speaker 1: know that but me. But I do know that all

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Speaker 1: the stories that I was telling eventually moved into the park,

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Speaker 1: so that my fingerprints all over it, and that that

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Speaker 1: is something that I didn't count on doing. Now I

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Speaker 1: wake up at night and I think of it, and

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Speaker 1: I'm grateful, and I was here. Then, at the young

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Speaker 1: age of eighty five, Betty became a park ranger. It's

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Speaker 1: just that that I was going along doing my thing,

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Speaker 1: and someone dropped the uniform on me and called said,

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Speaker 1: this is a ranger, And I became that the job

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Speaker 1: of being a ranger. It Rosey the Riter involves interpreting

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Speaker 1: the Second World War, which sounds like a tear of

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Speaker 1: me I'm bitteressing. It probably is, except that for me

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Speaker 1: it wasn't all the things that took of what I

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Speaker 1: was designed to do. And it wasn't because I was

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Speaker 1: simply the only person who could do it, but I

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Speaker 1: was the only one who was willing to do it.

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Speaker 1: You've been widely recognized at high levels. You received the

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Speaker 1: Medal of Honor from President Obama. What did you think

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Speaker 1: when you got that call? I didn't think. If I

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Speaker 1: had allowed myself to think, I would never gone. I

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't think. But I did go, and it

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Speaker 1: was so wonderful when Betty introduced President Barack Obama, a

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Speaker 1: moment that would eclipse our best day for many of us.

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Speaker 1: Betty describes the experience in real life relationship to the

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Speaker 1: important women in her life. My granddaughters were with me.

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Speaker 1: We were carrying a little bag that was a beaded

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Speaker 1: evening bag, and I had given it to my granddaughter

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Speaker 1: when she was eighteen. And we went back to Washington

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Speaker 1: and I had it hit on my hands and the

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Speaker 1: President handed me the presidential coin when we were introduced.

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Speaker 1: He slipped it into my hand in the dark, and

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Speaker 1: also in that bag was a spring of pearls that

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Speaker 1: I had received from my wedding day many years before,

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Speaker 1: so that the years were imprinted on the necklace, and

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Speaker 1: it was in the bag. And my great grandmother's picture,

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Speaker 1: a small picture which I carried my wallet, was also

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Speaker 1: in the bag. All of us were on the stage

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Speaker 1: the night I introduced the President to the nation on PBS,

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Speaker 1: and we were there and the President didn't even know

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Speaker 1: that we were old there and it was so wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember what you said to him or what

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Speaker 1: he said to you. Yes, I looked up at Michelle

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Speaker 1: and said, you are beautiful. And I didn't say anything

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Speaker 1: to the President. I remember that because I was so

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Speaker 1: just overcome she was. She was so beautiful, and she

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Speaker 1: was so untested. I didn't I didn't know. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that she was until I saw her. And they

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00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: were both standing above me, and I would write down

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00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: between them and I was not even up to their shoulders.

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Speaker 1: I'm five to two and they're six two, and it

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Speaker 1: was it was quite a day. It is my honor

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Speaker 1: to present to you the President of the United States,

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Speaker 1: Barack Obama. Thank you, Betty for that introduction, for your

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Speaker 1: extraordinary service as one of our park Rangers, and for

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Speaker 1: all of your and your great grandmother's contributions to this country.

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Speaker 1: Please give Betty a big round of applause. I want

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Speaker 1: tips from Betty on how I can look back good

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Speaker 1: at ninety four. You almost lost the metal once. Can

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00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: you tell us about it? I was sleeping and I

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Speaker 1: felt someone in my room. I lived alone, and it

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00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: was a man. And I reached for my telephone, which

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00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: is on my nightstand, which signaled that I was awake,

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00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: which was the dumbest thing I think I could have done.

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Speaker 1: And he came to us, pulled me from the bed,

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Speaker 1: and wrestled with me all the way into the hallway.

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Speaker 1: And he was wearing what seemed like pajama pants because

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00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: there exist spring around his waist, and I undid the

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00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: spring and squeezed his privates and he let go of

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00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: me after pummeling you pretty much around the head. And

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00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: I've made it to the bathroom and I sat there

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00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: the floor and I could feel my nerve coming back,

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00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: and when I knew it was there, I got up

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00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: and found that he had taken my computer, my tele

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Speaker 1: and the bag that was holding the coin the President

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00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: had given to me. The coin was replaced by Sally Jewel,

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Speaker 1: who made a trip that July to Washington, and she

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00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: asked the president to replace it, and he did so

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Speaker 1: I still have it. I'm at least happy to hear that, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are so many women now, not just women. I

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00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: think everybody who's going through the similar feelings that you

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00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: had described, maybe for different reasons, because of the last

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00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, of the pandemic, the last couple of years

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00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: of feeling like they've lost themselves a little bit. I'm

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00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: not sure exactly how they're going to emerge. What do

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00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: you say when you talk to people who are going

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00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: through that kind of moment that you went through. I

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00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: think it's probably different for everybody. I just don't think

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00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: that any of us grows in the same way. I

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00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: think that we all have an arc and that we follow.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how one befines that. I'm still

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00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: going up. And I still don't know anymore than I

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Speaker 1: didn't when I was twenty five, when I was thirty five,

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00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: when I was fifty. I still don't know where it's going.

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Speaker 1: You say that you're not finished yet, No, what else

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Speaker 1: would you like to do? No, I don't think I've

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00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: ever given myself anything before the fact, I've always caught

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00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: up with myself as life goes on. I have a

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00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: feeling that I'm always just a little bit behind where

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Speaker 1: I am, and I'm always wondering what comes next as

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Speaker 1: I am now. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thank you. We had the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to speak with both Diara and Betty about Dara's transition.

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Speaker 1: Here's a small portion of that conversation. I started my

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Speaker 1: life out as her son David, and I was totally

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Speaker 1: assists male with no clothes, and in the last five

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Speaker 1: years I discovered that instead of a man that had

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Speaker 1: feminine traits, that all my life I've been a woman

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00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: pretending to be a man. So that's been a difficult

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Speaker 1: transition for myself, but also with my mother, who understood

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Speaker 1: my oldest brother being gay. But this isn't a sexual thing.

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Speaker 1: It's an identity thing, which is a different, totally different

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Speaker 1: concept for her to grasp. I know that it probably

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Speaker 1: is just just just hard for you as for me.

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Speaker 1: Your oldest son. Yes, my o the son was born

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Speaker 1: homosexual and he went all through his life, which was

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00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: pretty short. It's gay at a time when it wasn't continued,

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00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: be gay. I don't know. I know it's easier now,

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Speaker 1: it easier. It's easier for me with you than it

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Speaker 1: was with him. But my life consisted of four children,

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Speaker 1: which is only the beginning, because each child was different,

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Speaker 1: and you were someone else for most of your life

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00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 1: and became a daughter in the last three years. That's

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00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: an awful lot for a mother to deal with. It's

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00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: hard for me in many ways, but not the ways

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00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: you would expect. I don't have trouble accepting. I have

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Speaker 1: trouble because after all these years of calling you David,

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Speaker 1: let me expect you to call you Diana. That's that's

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Speaker 1: That's about the hardest thing for me. Oh goodness Agon.

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00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: Betty still lives in Richmond, California, and it's continuing to

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00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: add chapters to her ever growing story. I must admit

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00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: narrowing down Betty's story was no easy feat. She has

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00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: dated Jackie Robinson, been named Glamour Magazine's Woman of the Year,

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00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: and so much more. Her daughter Diara, helps to share

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00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: her story and the small parts that are often overlooked.

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00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: Although retired from the National Park Service, Betty's legacy will

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00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: live on through the history of Rosie the Riveter Park.

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00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: To learn more about Betty and her incredible life, follow

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00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at she Pivots the podcast. Thank you

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00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of She Pivots, where I

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00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: talk with women about how their experiences and significant personal

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00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: events led to their pivot and eventually their success. Leave

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00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: a rating and comment if you enjoyed this episode wherever

413
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts to help others learn about it.

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00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and

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00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: the team that made this episode possible. Talk to you

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00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: next week. I'm Brittany and I'm Eric and this is

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00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: for Colored Nerds, the weekly show where we peel back

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00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: the layers of black culture we rarely discuss in mixed company,

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00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: from deep diving into the Black manisphere and black femininity

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Speaker 1: training to examining the influence of sex in the city

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Speaker 1: on some of our favorite black girl Boss shows. We've

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Speaker 1: got a little something for everyone. Never miss an episode

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Speaker 1: of For Colored Nerds by subscribing and following us wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen. Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations. Good

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