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Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power colli

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

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Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily changing San Francisco and this is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology coming up. In the next hour. US stocks

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Speaker 1: oscillating as investors rushed to position after the latest comments

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Speaker 1: from FED chair j Powell saying a recession could indeed

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Speaker 1: lie ahead. We'll speak with Shopify president Harley Finkel signed

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Speaker 1: about how it's all impacting consumers and where the company

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Speaker 1: is placing its bets when it comes to the future

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Speaker 1: of e commerce. Plus, Slack unveils a slew of new

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Speaker 1: features for a hybrid work world. CEO Stewart Butterfield has

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Speaker 1: been building companies since before the dot com boom and bust,

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Speaker 1: will join us. We'll also get his view on the

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Speaker 1: market meltdown, and Jeffrey Katzenberg joins to talk about the

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Speaker 1: future of entertainment and disrupting a legacy industries. Plus we'll

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Speaker 1: get his thoughts on what's happening at Netflix and Disney.

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Speaker 1: All of that in a moment, But first I want

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Speaker 1: to look at the markets with our very own ed

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Speaker 1: ludlow Ed walk us through the day, and obviously everyone

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Speaker 1: listening to those comments from FED charity plat power. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so like all eyes on the FED and exuty markets

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Speaker 1: a little bit softer, were down by less than two

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Speaker 1: tents of percent both on the SP five hundred and

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Speaker 1: the NASDAT one hundred, and nothing really changed in terms

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Speaker 1: of what Fed Powell said on the outlook for rates.

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Speaker 1: The conversation is around whether they can deliver a so

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Speaker 1: called soft landing, in other words, fight inflation without causing recession,

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Speaker 1: the quote being it will be extremely challenging. You see

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Speaker 1: tech Heavyn has that one index down by two tents

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Speaker 1: of a percent ish snapping two day rally, a short

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Speaker 1: lived rally, yields coming down by twelve basis points on

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Speaker 1: the tenure, and Bitcoin below twenty thousand dollars kind of

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Speaker 1: caught up in the move with equities in the risk

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Speaker 1: of environment. But you know how I like to do it.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a step back, Let's look at the last

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Speaker 1: few days of trading and look at this in the

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Speaker 1: context of what we've seen in markets recently, especially on

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Speaker 1: the NAZAC one. When you think about all of the

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Speaker 1: news of the last seven days, we started with that

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Speaker 1: FED meeting a week ago where we got a clearer

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Speaker 1: picture at the outlook for rates. We're going to be

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Speaker 1: at three point two five three and a half percent

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Speaker 1: on interest rates by the end of this year. We're

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Speaker 1: kind of trading sideways, and then today the market not

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Speaker 1: really making its mind up. Has anything materially changed, was

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Speaker 1: anything actually that new in what fed pal said throughout

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Speaker 1: the session, what I'm hearing the markets is that really know.

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Speaker 1: But we swung between gains and losses. At one point

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Speaker 1: in the session, you saw big tech up quite highly.

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Speaker 1: There were some really interesting movers though that we can

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Speaker 1: talk about in a minute. And the one thing I

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Speaker 1: would say is that we're thinking clearly about recession risk,

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Speaker 1: and the conversation is not necessarily if there's a recession,

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Speaker 1: it's about when there's a recession. Indeed, and obviously there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of big tech news that's having some of

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Speaker 1: these moves. I'm thinking about Amazon, yeah, exactly. And you know,

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Speaker 1: partly what we're looking at as well in the news

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Speaker 1: flow is that all of these stocks are trying to

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Speaker 1: take trading in lockstep. So you look at my board,

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Speaker 1: Tesla down four tents of one percent at one point,

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Speaker 1: it's been one of the biggest drivers pushing the index higher.

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Speaker 1: Amazon up by a quarter of percentage point, Netflix up

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Speaker 1: four point seven percent in the session, there was actual

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Speaker 1: news with it when it came to Netflix, so the

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Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal reporting that they are now considering a

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Speaker 1: tier of subscription that is AD supportive. We know that

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Speaker 1: that's something they discussed that their most recent earnings as

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Speaker 1: an idea, But according to this report, they are talking

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Speaker 1: to partners like Google and Comcast in partnerships on ADS.

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Speaker 1: I'll Trier down nine percent very quick according to a

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Speaker 1: Dow Jones report that regulators considering pulling the dual product

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Speaker 1: in which our Trier has a stake completely from the

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Speaker 1: US market. How long has it been since you and

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Speaker 1: I discussed toll It went from the impact on children

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Speaker 1: flavored products with jewels, now reports of it being pulled

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Speaker 1: from the US market asgethering that having a really material

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Speaker 1: impact on our Trier shares this Wednesday. All right, thank

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Speaker 1: you for the round up. Well. Retail and e commerce

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Speaker 1: companies have been under pressure in the midst of rising

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Speaker 1: inflation and market turmoil, but Shopify shares took a leg

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Speaker 1: up today after a slew of announcements targeted at the

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Speaker 1: changing nature of consumers. I want to talk about all

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Speaker 1: this and more with Harley Figglstein, President of Shopify. Harley,

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Speaker 1: we've got a lot of news to get to, a

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Speaker 1: lot of announcements that you made, and we'll talk about that,

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Speaker 1: but first I want to get your your sense of

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Speaker 1: what is happening with the economy. Shopify hasn't necessarily been

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Speaker 1: spared here, but what's your feeling about just how bad

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Speaker 1: this will get and if a recession is inevitable? Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having Emily, always a great pleasure being your show.

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Speaker 1: Two things. Let's first talk about the retail outlook and

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Speaker 1: I think consumer sentiment. What we are seeing is that

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Speaker 1: there's certainly some some retail rebounds happening in areas like

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Speaker 1: in person retail UM and we are well positioned there.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned on the earnings called last quarter that we

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Speaker 1: saw physical retail gym V up by nearly eighty percent

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Speaker 1: year on year UM and then when we add things

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Speaker 1: like you know we one of the announcements today was

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Speaker 1: local inventory sync on Google and tapped to pay, we

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Speaker 1: really are well positioned to ensure that if physical retail

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Speaker 1: is rebalancing and reopens that shopbly merchants can also use

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Speaker 1: that as well. But one of the things we're seeing

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Speaker 1: from a sort of a macro perspective is that consumers

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Speaker 1: are very much still voting with their dollars to support

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Speaker 1: independent brands. This is something we saw happen very quickly

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Speaker 1: and and and intensely during the pandemic. They are looking

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Speaker 1: for quality products and certainly a lot of the shop

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Speaker 1: by merchants are doing well there. In terms of the

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Speaker 1: economy in general, it's clear that obviously inflation is at

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Speaker 1: a record level, but to the degree in which merchants

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Speaker 1: wallets are stretched from higher prices. What they're beginning to

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Speaker 1: do is they're looking to get more value out of

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Speaker 1: every single dollar. And what we're seeing is that more

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Speaker 1: merchants are coming out to shopify and they're taking more

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Speaker 1: of our products, whether it's capital or payments or fulfillment.

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Speaker 1: They're leveraging our mass economies of scale while still keeping

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Speaker 1: an independent business. So um we we we think both

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Speaker 1: those things lead to a lot of optimism on our side.

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Speaker 1: And of course Shopify Editions was launched today. Right you

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Speaker 1: are making this big shift from DTC to C to see,

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Speaker 1: as you call it, direct to consumer to connect to consumer,

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Speaker 1: What does that mean and why do you think that's

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Speaker 1: the future. So this idea of shopla editions, which we

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Speaker 1: announced this morning, UH burned night nine am, it introduces

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Speaker 1: what we're calling the connect to consumer error of commerce,

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Speaker 1: and part of it is that you know the speed

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Speaker 1: of innovation and the depths and breadth of what Shopify

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Speaker 1: is building. I celebrated my my twelfth year anniversary last

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Speaker 1: week at Shopify, so I've been around for a third

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Speaker 1: of my life. Thank you. Uh. The amount of products

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Speaker 1: that we're shipping right now is is stronger than than

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Speaker 1: ever before. We unveiled more than a hundred new product

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Speaker 1: updates and launches today and I think we are moving

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Speaker 1: faster than ever and shoplay additions is our way of

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Speaker 1: sharing that momentum with the world now. I think you

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Speaker 1: know if you've I've been on the show a lot

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Speaker 1: of talking about direct to consumer, which really was about

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Speaker 1: this one to one connection with the brand to the consumer,

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Speaker 1: but it was very transactional. What we are noticing is

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Speaker 1: that more and more consumers want to connect with these

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Speaker 1: brands online on social media. They want to attend an

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Speaker 1: a vent or their store, they want to have more

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Speaker 1: of an emotional connection, whereby they can connect with brands

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Speaker 1: across a whole bunch of different surface areas. And so

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Speaker 1: commerce is really just not about the transaction. It's much deeper.

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Speaker 1: And we think SEE two SEE really places more authenticity

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Speaker 1: and loyalty and trust at the heart of every single

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Speaker 1: merchant interaction. And uh, and so a lot of the

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Speaker 1: products you saw today is really about us ushering in

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Speaker 1: this new model for commerce. You're also striking a big

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Speaker 1: partnership with Twitter to help businesses reach buyers there. And

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Speaker 1: I just wonder why now on Twitter is facing all

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Speaker 1: of this uncertainty about whether Elon Musks buys the company

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Speaker 1: or not, and if this partnership will hold up in

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Speaker 1: a new regime. We think the future of retail is

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Speaker 1: going to be retail everywhere. It's going to be online

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Speaker 1: and offline, on social media, it's going to be in

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Speaker 1: person at at farmers markets, at events and concerts. We

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Speaker 1: really are you know, I think we started as being

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Speaker 1: an e commerce company, and you know, about ten percent

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Speaker 1: of all e commerce in the US now flow through Shopify.

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Speaker 1: If we were one single aggregated story would be the

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Speaker 1: second largest online store in America. But the key here

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Speaker 1: is that commerce in the future will happen everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: so we we've announced I'd come on the show and

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Speaker 1: talked about our integrations with Google and Facebook and Instagram

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Speaker 1: and TikTok to embed commerce there. And then the newest

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Speaker 1: one that we're embedding, the newest partner we're betting commerce

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Speaker 1: with is Twitter. Now. Twitter is an interesting one. Of

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Speaker 1: course they're in the news a lot lately. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if you think about where commerce used to happen, it

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Speaker 1: was always sort of around the town square where the

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Speaker 1: baker sold bread and cobber so old shoes. Twitter in

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Speaker 1: some ways is the modern day digital town square, and

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Speaker 1: so embedding commerce right into Twitter so you can turn

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Speaker 1: conversation into commerce, all powered by Shopify. We think it's

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Speaker 1: a really great thing. And whether or not, you know,

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Speaker 1: they have a new owner in the future or not,

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Speaker 1: I think commerce will play a role in Twitter future. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I recently interviewed Amazon CEO Andy Jase Harley, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if you caught this, but what I asked

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Speaker 1: about Amazon's relationship with third party sellers and the tension

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Speaker 1: that has existed there between Amazon and some third party sellers,

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Speaker 1: he took kind of a dig at Shopify. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what he had to say. Sellers don't really

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Speaker 1: wrong for commerce software that exists in lots of places,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and it's not very expensive. What they love

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Speaker 1: about selling on Amazon is that they get access to

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Speaker 1: our hundreds of millions of customers and that completely changes

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Speaker 1: what their prospects can be in terms of the business

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Speaker 1: as they're building. What's your response to that, I think that, uh,

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Speaker 1: it is quite clear that the future of retail is

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Speaker 1: going to have direct connection between brands and the consumers. Look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, a place like Amazon allows third party

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Speaker 1: sellers to access a very large network of consumers. But

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Speaker 1: if you look at any of these marketplaces, you, as

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Speaker 1: a merchant, you're not building your own business. You are

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Speaker 1: effectively renting customers from the marketplace. And I think for

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Speaker 1: some merchants that matters. But for a lot of merchants,

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Speaker 1: you think about your favorite brands or Mine, James Purse

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Speaker 1: or the Albert Shooes, I'm wearing bombas socks and wearing

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Speaker 1: they want to have a direct relationship with the people

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Speaker 1: that are buying their their products. And I think that

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Speaker 1: more and more you see consumers again choosing to go

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Speaker 1: direct whenever possible. So I think there's a place for marketplaces,

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Speaker 1: and obviously Amazon has done a great, great, great thing

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Speaker 1: there and and it's very valuable in that way. But

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Speaker 1: I think consumers also want to have a direct relationship

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Speaker 1: with the brands they're buying from. And that's the reason

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Speaker 1: why you see companies like Mattel and Craola and Herman

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Speaker 1: Miller and Proctor and Gamble you Shopify to go direct

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Speaker 1: to consumer. These are brands that traditionally never did so,

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Speaker 1: and now they're doing that now, Harley, you know, Shopify

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Speaker 1: shares have taken a pretty big dive since November where

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Speaker 1: they hit a hit a high point, and obviously we're

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a broader market turmoil. But how

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Speaker 1: concerned are you about this and going forward? You know,

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Speaker 1: how are you thinking about this? What are investors missing?

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Speaker 1: I think Shopify was certainly a pandemic story, and I think,

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Speaker 1: obviously you know this, the stock reflected them. I think,

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Speaker 1: what what a lot of people are missing? But the

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Speaker 1: Shopify stories that on one hand, we're ten percent of

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Speaker 1: all e commerce the ums, we have massive scale. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, those economy scille that come with it.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, the two million stores on Shopify

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Speaker 1: have an independent business at the same time. That happens

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Speaker 1: every thirty seconds or so a brand new entrepreneur gets

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Speaker 1: their first sale on Shopify. That means we are not

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Speaker 1: only getting a larger piece of the pie, we're growing

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Speaker 1: the pie itself. And all those stores that end up

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Speaker 1: in businesses that are being really successful will stay on

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Speaker 1: Shopify indefinitely. And that's why you see companies like Figs

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Speaker 1: and All Birds go public and and Jim Shark and

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Speaker 1: all these amazing brands that were built at their mom's

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Speaker 1: kitchen table that are our category leaders built on Shopify.

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Speaker 1: I also want to ask about you'll go go ahead

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Speaker 1: finish your I was gonna say in terms of so,

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Speaker 1: I think we were a pandemic story. I think what

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Speaker 1: what often people misses? Were also this reopening story again,

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Speaker 1: eighty percent of our eight we had eighty percent growth

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Speaker 1: in point of sale gym V. We have thousands of

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Speaker 1: stores all over the world that you shop lay a

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Speaker 1: power their physical store. You know, we saw social embedded

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Speaker 1: commerce on services like Instagram and TikTok and now Twitter

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Speaker 1: grow almost four percent year on year last quarter. So

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Speaker 1: Shopify is really more than just spinnay commerce provider or

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Speaker 1: or a pandemic story. We really are the world's retail

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Speaker 1: operating system. And again, look at every one of your

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Speaker 1: favorite brands or anyone listening look at your favorite brands.

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Speaker 1: You will start seeing shop pay as the payment game.

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Speaker 1: But you will start seeing Shopify power those brands. That's

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Speaker 1: really important to us, and that's the reason why I

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Speaker 1: think our future is very brave. I also want to

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Speaker 1: ask about your evolving governance story. Shopify recently made some

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Speaker 1: changes to enhance Toby lucka of the CEOs power. Some

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Speaker 1: shareholders did oppose these changes. What are you hearing from

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Speaker 1: from shareholders now, you know, in terms of concerns about

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Speaker 1: this change, and what has been Shopify as response. I've

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Speaker 1: spent the last few weeks with uh some of our

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Speaker 1: our largest investors, and and and frankly a lot of

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Speaker 1: investors generally, and I think um one, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: grateful for their trust and coetin to run the business.

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Speaker 1: But the goal here really was modernizing our government structure.

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Speaker 1: We want to be a hundred your company. We're about

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Speaker 1: sixteen years sixteen years into it, so we've got a

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Speaker 1: lot more time. Eighty four years left to go, and

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Speaker 1: we want to ensure that we can run our business

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Speaker 1: and make really good long term decisions for investors, for merchants,

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Speaker 1: for for every stakeholder that's involved with Shopify, and we

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Speaker 1: think this monetization, particularly around the government structure, allows us

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Speaker 1: to do that. I'll also tell you, having spent so

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Speaker 1: much time with investors lately, that some of these investors

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Speaker 1: that have been with us for the last seven years

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Speaker 1: since the I p O, and they believe more in

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Speaker 1: shop Plain now than ever before. And we're grateful for that.

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Speaker 1: But we got a lot of room to grow and

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Speaker 1: and we have a lot of new opportunities in front

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Speaker 1: of us. All right, Harley Finkelston. Always appreciate you joining us,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking a wide range of questions today. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: it happening in New York right now. Slack Frontiers the

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Speaker 1: company's annual conference where they've unveiled the latest innovations to

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Speaker 1: a product that's become integral to the hybrid workplace. Joining

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Speaker 1: us now. Stuart Butterfield, Slack co founder and CEO, joining

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Speaker 1: us from our studios in New York, Stewart. Great to

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Speaker 1: have you back with us, and thanks for coming in

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Speaker 1: among the many announcements today, you're building out Slack huddles,

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Speaker 1: adding this new video feature, and I'm curious, with video

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Speaker 1: conferencing a very crowded market, what's the unique niche that

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Speaker 1: you hope Slacks offering will fill. Yeah, thank you, Emily.

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Speaker 1: It's um it's a little bit different than than a

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Speaker 1: video call. So huddles, for those of you who are

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Speaker 1: not familiar, used by tens of millions of people a

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Speaker 1: week on Slack, and up till now, they've been audio only,

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Speaker 1: and the intention is a little bit different than like

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Speaker 1: a call that has a scheduled start time and end time.

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Speaker 1: They're more for serendipitous, spontaneous conversations and they've been really

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Speaker 1: valuable in that respect, fastest growing feature and Slacks history.

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Speaker 1: People love it. UM. So we're adding a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of a coworking space, and I think there's a

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Speaker 1: difference between on the one hand meetings and the other hand,

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Speaker 1: people working together and helping to use computers at the

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Speaker 1: same time. We're definitely on the far left edge of

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Speaker 1: that spectrum. And I think that I, like all of

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Speaker 1: the people in the audience, will be on many many

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Speaker 1: more video calls years. Show now but I think there's

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Speaker 1: also like a whole set of tools that kind of

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Speaker 1: became obvious that they're desirable during the pandemic. But we're

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Speaker 1: just starting to see some of them now. Some of

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Speaker 1: them will come from Slack, some of them will come

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Speaker 1: from others. It's actually a pretty exciting time and enterprise software,

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Speaker 1: insofar as enterprise software can be exciting at all. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: of course, you know there's competition here from Zoom and

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Speaker 1: Google Meet and Microsoft Teams and just go WebEx And

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Speaker 1: in the same way that you're kind of moving on

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Speaker 1: to let's say, zooms turf a little bit, you've got

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Speaker 1: Zoom announcing some chat features. Are you at all concerned

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Speaker 1: about them taking Slack market share? No, not at all.

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Speaker 1: And to be clear, we at Black are a happy

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Speaker 1: Zoom customer, and I don't expect that to go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: There just is a lot of use cases that that

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Speaker 1: aren't covered by the thirty minute video call. There's also

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Speaker 1: a huge amount of stuff that Zoom does that I

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Speaker 1: don't think Slack will ever do, and also vice versa.

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Speaker 1: But um, we're at this moment where it really feels

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Speaker 1: like I'm personally as optimistic as I ever have been

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Speaker 1: in the last twenty years. It really feels like there's

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to create a couple of brand new categories.

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Speaker 1: In the same way that everyone has the standard set

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Speaker 1: of email and calendar and word processor and spreadsheet, there's

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Speaker 1: a couple more slots there that the pandemic made clear.

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Speaker 1: We're really important, and so we're excited to spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time experimenting there and uh and releasing new stuff.

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Speaker 1: Now you don't have to worry about this as much

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Speaker 1: now that slack is part of salesforce. And I wonder,

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Speaker 1: actually if there's some relief that you actually don't have

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Speaker 1: to worry about the market meltdown. But you've been building

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Speaker 1: companies for more than twenty years, you live through the

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Speaker 1: dot com boom and bust. What's your take on what's

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Speaker 1: happening with the economy right now? If Elon Musk has

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Speaker 1: a super bad feeling about it, how does Stupent Butterfield feel? Well? Uh, So,

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Speaker 1: I'm from pretty old at this point. I graduated from

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Speaker 1: post school in ninety one, so I worked through the recession,

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Speaker 1: right through the dot com crash, that whole roller coaster

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight of course as well, and a

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Speaker 1: couple of other littler ones. UM. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: suggest that there's no dislocation and there's no like immediate

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Speaker 1: negative impact for a lot of people, um in the

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Speaker 1: short term. But at the market level, I see this

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Speaker 1: um kind of working itself out over. Maybe it's six

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Speaker 1: months if we're super super lucky, maybe if it's eighteen months. Um,

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Speaker 1: if it's a little bit more realistic. But we do

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Speaker 1: come up the other side, and so many great companies,

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Speaker 1: including it slock. We're started. You know, there's company that

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Speaker 1: became slock started at two thousand and nine, kind of

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Speaker 1: right in the in the absolute bottom part of the trough. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's also a lot more opportunity now. Interesting. UM,

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Speaker 1: So how do you think Silicon valid looks different after this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if it's not a major dislocation, is it

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Speaker 1: just a sort of evolution. Yeah, I mean, so if

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Speaker 1: we're talking about like just stock prices and big multiples

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Speaker 1: have come down to a pretty realistic level now, and

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Speaker 1: so now we'll see if people can deliver the earnings

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Speaker 1: that are expected, will kind of stay in the same

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Speaker 1: box for a while. UM. The bigger question is whether

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Speaker 1: that whether you imagine a recession that would really impact this.

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Speaker 1: But I think something else is going on at the

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Speaker 1: same time, which is we've really realized, uh, the importance

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Speaker 1: of all the digital infrastructure that supports productivity and collaboration,

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Speaker 1: and just to make that like a little bit more

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Speaker 1: tangible for people. If you go back to March and

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Speaker 1: imagine that a parallel universe where you could keep traveling

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Speaker 1: for work and use conference rooms and commune, go to

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Speaker 1: the office, all of that stuff, but you took away

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Speaker 1: the software, all of these companies would have just disintegrated

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Speaker 1: in like twenty four hours. So at some point in

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Speaker 1: the last twenty years, we switched from a world where

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Speaker 1: the physical HQ is more important than the digital to

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Speaker 1: the other way around. And yes, we use digital h

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Speaker 1: Q as a marketing term, but I just mean obviously

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Speaker 1: all of these companies continue to exist, and when that happens,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more interest in investment. You know.

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Speaker 1: The worst case scenario is a is a chief information

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Speaker 1: officer who've used technology as like HVACT for the building,

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Speaker 1: like you're just trying to get it as cheap as

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Speaker 1: possible as opposed to an investment in the organization's overall

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Speaker 1: effectiveness and the ladder case is really what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: with customers now. Flat is becoming more and more integral

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Speaker 1: to all kinds of workforces and has been in the

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Speaker 1: news recently because the January six Committee has asked Twitter

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Speaker 1: for Slack messages tied to their decision to ban former

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Speaker 1: President Trump, etcetera. I'm so curious for your thoughts on this.

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Speaker 1: If Slack has been subpoena and I know Twitter has

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Speaker 1: refused to hand this misinformation over, and if you were subpoena,

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Speaker 1: if Slack would comply, UM, I gotta be honest now

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Speaker 1: at this point, I have no idea if we've been subpoena.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. UM. You know, obviously we have

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Speaker 1: a range of customers. In fact that when I'm a

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Speaker 1: softball opportunity to mention. We also announced gov Slack today,

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Speaker 1: the fed ramp high version of Slack used by like

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Speaker 1: Lockheed Martin and the U. S. Army software factory. Um.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of different compliance requirements and message

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Speaker 1: retention rules and stuff like that, and I think that

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Speaker 1: the investigations are generally gonna be of Slacks customers, not

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Speaker 1: of Slack that was gonna be my next question. Your

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Speaker 1: effort to attract more government agency. How exactly do you

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Speaker 1: intend to do that? How do you plan to handle

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Speaker 1: some of these very sticky issues like privacy. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we have government customers in twenty different countries, and some

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Speaker 1: of those have been long established. I think there's about

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Speaker 1: thirteen US federal agencies using slack, but there's also state, local,

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Speaker 1: municipal usage. There's usage in UM in Australia and the UK,

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Speaker 1: in Japan and France, in Germany and UM. The kind

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Speaker 1: of benefit that slack brings to petty organization that uses

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Speaker 1: it are are obviously there for the government as well,

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Speaker 1: and I think we would be an opportunity to create

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of a fabric that goes through

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Speaker 1: the whole federal government because those agencies are pretty autonomous

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Speaker 1: UM and it's much much harder, kind of notoriously harder

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Speaker 1: for them to coordinate that it should be, all right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Slack CEO Stewart Butterfield. Always good to have you on

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Speaker 1: the show. Thanks for checking out to our New York studios.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate stuff. Elon Musk says Tesla's new plans in Germany

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Speaker 1: and Texas are losing billions of dollars as the ev

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Speaker 1: maker tries to ramp up production. In a video just

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Speaker 1: posted online that was taped three weeks ago, the Tesla's

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Speaker 1: CEOs comments offer new insight into the day's leading up

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Speaker 1: to his decision to cut costs by laying off employees.

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Speaker 1: The staff reductions will affect about ten percent of Tesla's

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Speaker 1: salaried workforce over the next three months. Coming up, we

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Speaker 1: are going to head to Toronto for a conversation with

431
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Katzenberg fresh off a panel at the Collision conference

432
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: about disrupting legacy industry, something he knows a thing or

433
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: two about. Plus will get his thoughts on the current

434
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: economic climate and where he's putting his money these days

435
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: and a company he's invested in. That's all coming up next.

436
00:21:51,600 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Welcome back to Bloomber Technology and Emily

437
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: Chain in San Francisco. It was a choppy day for

438
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: tech stocks as the market tried to make up its

439
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: mind on the fed and risks of recession. Where do

440
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: we land bloom Brooks lad Low back to unwind it all. Yeah,

441
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: so we're like modestly lower right across multiple industries, especially

442
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: tech indusseries look at then as that one hundred off

443
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: by around two tents and one percent outside selling and

444
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: semi conductors chip stock some of the worst performers and

445
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: biggest tracks and drags on both the SMP five hundred,

446
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: and then as that one hundred yours cd MC fan

447
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: PUSS Index, which is made up of those mega cats

448
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: and some US listed shares of Chinese tech companies modestly lower,

449
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: but they've been higher during the session. We kind of

450
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: swung between games and losses. The market trying to make

451
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: up its mind about the Fed's ability to fight in

452
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: relation without causing recession. Don't take my word for it.

453
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: Have a listen to FED chair j Power. It is

454
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: our goal. It is going to be very challenging. It

455
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: has been made significantly more challenging by the events of

456
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: the last few months, thinking they're of the war and

457
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 1: you know, command of these prices and further problems with

458
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: supply chains, and the question whether we're able to to

459
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: to accomplish that is going to depend to some extent

460
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: on factors that we don't control. So the market kind

461
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: of sees you on the idea this is the biggest

462
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: admission so far that there's a real risk of hard

463
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: landing or recession. We had a lot of other things

464
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: to say, right the labor market still incredibly tight, the

465
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: economy still incredibly robust. You because some of the tech

466
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: movers really interesting, especially in regards to news CYD. We

467
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: look at Amazon and up a quarter of a percent

468
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: news out of a leaked memo where Amazon is talking

469
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: about the turnover in its workforce, for example, being very

470
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: high relative to other industries, it being a real concern. Well,

471
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: what happens to that labor market as we moved towards

472
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: a FED that's fighting inflation, not just with interest rates,

473
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 1: with the shrinking of its balancy and the other name

474
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: that just catches my eye with regards to the demand story,

475
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: because according to fed Pale, the demand is still their

476
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 1: Netflix up four point according to reports from Wall Street

477
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: Journal considering an ad tear for one of its subscription models,

478
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: basically add support in conjunction with names like Google comcasts.

479
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: You have some interesting guests coming up, but kind of

480
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: be interested in their take about Netflix. One of the

481
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: worst performers year today wasn't really participating in the rally

482
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: of recent days, but having a great day on Wednesday,

483
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: all right, interesting to say the least. Thank you, and well.

484
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: Despite fears that the US is heading towards a recession

485
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: as inflation drives up costs and some companies start layoffs,

486
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: there was a more up ink tone at this year's

487
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: Collision conference, where thirty five thousand people showed up to

488
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: hear about the future of technology. Joining me out from Toronto,

489
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Katzenberg, founding partner at Wonder COO and former chair

490
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: of Disney, also see of dream Works of course, along

491
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: with Harry rabat Chande, and he is the founder and

492
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: CEO of our and online cybersecurity firm and one of

493
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: Katzenberg's investments. UM, Jeffrey, Harry, thank you both for joining us.

494
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: I know you've just been on stage talking about disrupting

495
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: legacy industries, and Jeffrey, this is of course something you

496
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: know a thing or two about. So tapping you as

497
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: an investor first, given everything you've seen, everything you've tried

498
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: to do, what industries do you see right now that

499
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: are most right for disruption? Well, whether it's right for

500
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: disruption or not, I think that the place of opportunity

501
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: today that we're quite focused on continue to be is

502
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: on cyber security, both for enterprise and for the consumer. UM.

503
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: I think it will UH have faced less headwinds and

504
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: a UH down recession economy than many industries. UM also

505
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: think that future of work continues to be a place

506
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: of great opportunity. The disruption out of uh COVID has

507
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: been extreme in terms of the workforce and the tools

508
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: that it needs today in terms of productivity of collaborating, sharing,

509
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: the moving of information and people, I think is going

510
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: to be a place of tremendous innovation over these next

511
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: couple of years. So there are bright slots, but no

512
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: question we're in for choppy times. Interesting, Harry, you know

513
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: there's an actually huge number of cybersecurity unicorns out there

514
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: right now, and especially you know many companies with which

515
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: raised at HAFT evaluations when times were good. How do

516
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: you think Aura stands out on that list? Look away,

517
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: So this is my second go around building a business UH.

518
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: The first time we went through the down cycle in

519
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: two thousand, two thousand one. Again to know seven a

520
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: week and you learn a lot of usins having been

521
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: through the cycles. So this time around, we're very focused

522
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: on keeping the fixed for the fixed cost of our

523
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: business low, looking for opportunities where there's availability for asymmetric

524
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: risk reward payouts, whether it's M and A, organic growth vectors, etcetera.

525
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: But keeping the core of our business quite tight and

526
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: making sure that we're mindful of cost of burn and

527
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: having raised a lot of capital last year, we're well

528
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: set up. So it's it's it's really something that we

529
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: have to stay focused to make sure we're creating a

530
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: lot of runway and continue to keep focusing on our product. Yeah.

531
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: And the other thing, Emily, is is it or is

532
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: a mature business. It's got two million customers, almost three

533
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: million of revenue, It's a profitable business um and um,

534
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: and a fair amount of wind in its sales right

535
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: now in terms of its growth. So this is growth,

536
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: but it's profitable growth. I think that sort of makes it,

537
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, in a slightly unique category right now. So, Jeffrey,

538
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: I mean, given that you've also seen a number of downturns,

539
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: run companies through downturns, how pronounced do you think this

540
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: one in particular is going to be? Is this a

541
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: recession with a big R or a little R? Is

542
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: it inevitable? You know what? I'm you just went way

543
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: above my pay grade family, and uh, you know, I

544
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: just have to say, you know, I think and this

545
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: is what I admire so much about Harri and how

546
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: he's running his business. You plan for the worst and

547
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: you hope for the best. And what I mean by

548
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: that is is that you know, he really has buttoned

549
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: down his business. He's running it, you know, on a

550
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: smart basis, on a profitable basis. But this is also

551
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: a time of great opportunity and there are going to

552
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: be things for us to do, whether it's an M

553
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: and a um uh, you know, direct to consumer. You know,

554
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: the ad markets probably going to become more favorable, so

555
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: there there are You've got to be able to play

556
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: offense and defense, you know, at this at the same time,

557
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: you need an offensive team and a defensive team. And

558
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: that's what I think Harris built well for this for

559
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: this company. Well, speaking of offense and defense, in part

560
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: the promise of cybersecurity is you know, the the the

561
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: ability to play really good defense. And we've been warned

562
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: so many times about the threat from Russia in the

563
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: midst of this ongoing war on Ukraine. Are how big

564
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: are the threats out there on the cyber landscape and

565
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: how do you see that threat evolving as we go

566
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: through this, you know, potentially pronounced economic crisis for six

567
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: eighteen months or longer. I mean, I think it started

568
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: with COVID. As people are moving more and more online,

569
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: a lot more data started moving online as well. And

570
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, whether you're looking at should nation state and

571
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: nation state attacks or you're looking at attack on enterprises.

572
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: The interesting thing we see is some of those who

573
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: are prevalent, they're getting a lot more sophisticated. But the

574
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: new thing that we're starting to see is there's an

575
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: acceleration of the sophistication of attacks on families and consumers.

576
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: So it's going all the way from nation to nation

577
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: to enterprise and consumers and family. Um. You know, I

578
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: do think that over the next come twelve to eighteen months,

579
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: the trend doesn't seem to be slowing down. From what

580
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: we can see, there's some new variant of a different

581
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: kind of an attack happening every week. UM, and you know,

582
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: UH criminals seem to be enjoying their work and UH

583
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: showing showing that. An interesting statistic is is that in

584
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: the last twelve months, the amount of theft UH digital

585
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: theft versus burglary has actually now surpassed it. So there's

586
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: actually more criminal activity theft going on against all of

587
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: us as consumers on our digital footprint, then in our

588
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,239
Speaker 1: homes and our apartments and around our physical goods, and

589
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: that trend is actually accelerating. So that value right now

590
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: is I think in terms of what or is solving for?

591
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: Is you know, really really strong and only going to

592
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: get stronger? Jeffrey, I have to ask, given of course,

593
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: what you saw with Quimby and your long history and

594
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: the entertainment business, what is your thought on the collapse?

595
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: And I'm like, can I congratulate you? Sure? Can I

596
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: congratulate you on that. It took you, It took you

597
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: eight and a half minutes to say the word Quimby

598
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: out loud. So thank you. You you got you got

599
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: the over. You got the over, not the under. But

600
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: go for it. Yes, I'm sorry, it is not the

601
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: only thing you're going to be remembered for if I

602
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: have anything to say about it. But I do want

603
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: to know what you think about what's happening in streaming

604
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: right now. The collapse in Netflix is stopped, you know,

605
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: have we hit a peak? And is it all downhill

606
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: from here? No? Here's what I would say. You know, truly,

607
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: one of the great entrepreneurs of our time is Read Hastings.

608
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, everybody were naysayers a decade ago when he

609
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: came along with this idea streaming. They were all nay

610
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: sayers when he came along with this idea for you know,

611
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: binging of content. You know, there's so many things that

612
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, popular opinion were contrary to him and his

613
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: vision for that company. He's built a great company. There's

614
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: no question that you know it is actually you know,

615
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: hit some rough patch for sure. But the last thing

616
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: I would do right now today is bet on Reid

617
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: Hassin's being down, let alone out. So you asked me,

618
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: do I think, you know, what is the future of streaming.

619
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: The future streaming is going to be strong, likely more consolidation.

620
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: So there's a lot more competition today. There's a lot

621
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 1: more offerings out there today, more than all of us

622
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: can consume. And so with that they're going to be

623
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: winners and losers. Do I think Netflix is going to

624
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: be in the winter column for sure? Is it going

625
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: to see seven dollars a share? Soon? Probably? Not. I

626
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: wonder if you think Disney and CEO Bob J. Pecker

627
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: and the winner column. You I mean, obviously the long

628
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: history there. Um, you know we've seen, you know, some

629
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: some tumult in the executive suite. You know what a

630
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: succession look like there, and how does Disney fit into

631
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: the future of the entertainment business. Disney will also be

632
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: in that wind column. You know, if you had to

633
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: pick today, you would say Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Disney, Warner Discovery.

634
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: They're all going to in some fashion, shape or form

635
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: being the wind column. You know, once again, you know

636
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: Shapik has a complicated hand to play. Um. You know, uh,

637
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: probably no company had more of its businesses adversely affected

638
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: by COVID. I mean literally Broadway shutdown, theaters shut down,

639
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: theme park shutdown, cruise ship shutdown. Do I have to

640
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: keep going? And you know he's trying to navigate now,

641
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, sort of the next renaissance of Disney. It's

642
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: a bar, it's a big challenge. My guess is he's

643
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: up to it. Jeffrey, I appreciate you humoring us and

644
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: putting on your entertainment legend hat uh as well as

645
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: your investor hat. Jeffrey Katzenberg. Wonderco Ari Rabit Chondren of

646
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: our coming to us from the Collision conference in Toronto.

647
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: Thank you both. Time now for our crypto report. Bitcoin

648
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: trading once again around the twenty dollar level, moving in

649
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: tandem with falling stocks. This is concerns about a global

650
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: recession grow and while some crypto companies are laying people off,

651
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: others are more optimistic even about the near future. I

652
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: want to talk about all this and more with Bloomberg's

653
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: own Hannah Miller Hannah falcon X raising a big round today.

654
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: How in the midst of a very are you called

655
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: the crypto winter? Yeah, I know. It's an exciting company

656
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: that's now valued at eight billion dollars, up from a

657
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: three point seven five billion dollar valuation from its last fundraise.

658
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: And this is a company that is has a lot

659
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: of interesting stuff about it. Its founder Um has a

660
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 1: really impressive background. It was formed was formerly at Google

661
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: um and this funding round came together in the past

662
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: few weeks even as market conditions were changing. Uh So

663
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: it's super exciting, especially when you see other companies like

664
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: block By looking to raise a down valuations. Well, we're

665
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: back to twenty dollars for bitcoin, But the CEO of

666
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: Binance says the worst part is probably over, is he right?

667
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: I think cz is being a bit optimistic here. Um,

668
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of fragility in the market. We

669
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: could see trouble for other lending platforms. We've already seen

670
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: Celsius and Babble hit um, and there's still a lot

671
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: of uncertainty revolving around regulation and also purity. You know,

672
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: hacks and scams have just been a lingering problem for

673
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: the crypto industry. We've seen layoffs at coin Base, layoffs

674
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: at robin Hood. You know, when you're talking to your sources,

675
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: talking to your companies, just how bit bad is it

676
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: or how bad does it feel on the inside of

677
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: some of these organizations. Yeah. So I've been told by

678
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: multiple people to expect more layoffs in the future, that

679
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: this is going to be a trend after a rash

680
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: of over hiring last year. And basically people believe that

681
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: this crypto winter is going to last for another six

682
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: months to hear, but that it will be shorter than

683
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: the previous one because we have clearer uses for blockchain now.

684
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking decentralized finance, gaming and n f T s

685
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: that will help people stay interested in crypto and blockchain.

686
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: All right, well, Hannah will continue to follow your reporting

687
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: on all of this. Bloomberg's Hannah Miller, thanks so much.

688
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: Coming up Apple's first union and what it means for

689
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: a potential wave of tech unions across the country. Talk

690
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: about that next. This is Bloomberg. Big tech has long

691
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: been hostile to organize labor, but as of late, there

692
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: have been some serious moves to change that. This past weekend,

693
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 1: employees at a Maryland Apple store voted to thirty three

694
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: to unionize. The move creates the first union of Apple

695
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: retail employees in the United States. And running the campaign

696
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: and Towson was the International Association of Machinists. David Telivian

697
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: Eastern Territory General vice president, joins us now to talk

698
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: about this big win. And David, the votes we've seen

699
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: at some of the Amazon warehouses have been a lot closer.

700
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: Why do you think Apple employees voted here almost two

701
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: to one. We're we're very pleased with the outcome of this.

702
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: The workers in Maryland were are very excited. They were

703
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: very involved in this whole process. They came to us

704
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: because of our presence in the community, and uh we

705
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time with them over the long

706
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: period of time talking to them who we are, what

707
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: we do, and they were just very very excited about

708
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: having the opportunity, uh to organize and have a say

709
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: in the future. Now, Apple hasn't responded to this union

710
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: vote directly, but in the past, as as news about

711
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: the forming of a possible union broke, they did tout

712
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: their benefits. They've touted, uh, what these workers are paid.

713
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: Do you think this vote in Maryland will result in

714
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: more unions being formed at Apple across the United States?

715
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: I do. We've received many, many phone calls from across

716
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: the country from coast to coast right now, and uh,

717
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: it's the out The outpour has been very good. It's

718
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: it's definitely a wave and we're we're very pleased with that.

719
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: Workers had to put a lot on the line down

720
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: in Maryland to stand up and and have a say

721
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: in the future. And we're hoping that other workers in

722
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: Apple see that they were able to do it. They

723
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: didn't buy into some of the anti union rhetoric that

724
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: was out there that the machines union we do a

725
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: lot of good things. These are very highly skilled employees

726
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: and uh, we're a very highly skilled union. So We're

727
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: very pleased that they were able to hold tight, hold strong.

728
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: And when they walked out that door and you heard

729
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: the screams, that was the sound we want to hear

730
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: across this entire state, I mean country. How Apple have

731
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: to deal with the unions, like what kind of discussions

732
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: and agreements will have to be had. Um. Typically, what

733
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: we'll do is we'll try to do a meeting Greek,

734
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 1: we will send the letter. We're gonna be certified. Hopefully

735
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: at the end of the week. Uh, it's usually about

736
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: a seven day process. We should be certified without any issues.

737
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: Once we're certified, I'll send a letter to Apple, to

738
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: the CEO and request to meet with them, and then

739
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: we'll start the process to collectively bargain a contract for

740
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: the employees. And what will change for workers at unionized stores, everything,

741
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: their whole world's gonna change. They'll have the ability to

742
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: have a say in their future. Uh, they'll have a

743
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: voice on the job. Scheduling is a big thing for them.

744
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: They love their job. They do a lot of great

745
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: stuff and you know, they connect people to these products

746
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: that you know, we can't figure them out. We go

747
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: to these stores, we meet with them, highly technical highly skilled.

748
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: They help us get our stuff together. You know, it's

749
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: for them. I think that because they do love their job,

750
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: they want to have more, saying like their schedule, just

751
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: anything to do with their future working conditions, safety on

752
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: the job, they'll have, they'll have the ability to do that. Um.

753
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: We're seeing a similar conversation happening at Amazon, and I

754
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: actually spoke to Amazon CEO Andy Jassy about union efforts

755
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: at Amazon warehouses. Take a quick listen to what he

756
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: had to say. We happen to think they're better off

757
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: without a union for a number of reasons, including the

758
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: fact that you know, it's it's much harder when you

759
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: have a union to have a direct relationship with your

760
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: manager and to get things done quickly. How would you

761
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: respond to that, David, Yeah, I think that's silly, to

762
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: be honest with you, just to be frank. Uh, for us,

763
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: that the union is, it's the people there, the people

764
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: on site, the employees at that store, they are the union.

765
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: They keep trying to say it's a third party coming

766
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: in and they're gonna not be able to be personal

767
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: and have friendships. That's absolutely false, not true. Uh, the

768
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: union is the people you know on site, there and

769
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: the relationships can continue. We have great relationships with many

770
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: many companies that we work with, so I wouldn't expect

771
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: anything different from a CEO from Amazon. How long does

772
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: a union last for? Will this have to be renewed?

773
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: And is this going to be an ongoing fight even

774
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: in in tosin whether or not it happens beyond no.

775
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: What we'll do is we usually negotiate a contract, typically

776
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: the three year contracts, but once once we're um officially,

777
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: once it's officially certified, will be the bargaining agent for

778
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: them and hopefully it goes forever. And last quick question.

779
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: You know tech has so far been you know, fairly

780
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: immune to these kind of union negotiations. How do you

781
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 1: imagine this could change the tech industry. We've got about

782
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: thirty seconds left. I think it's gonna be a great change.

783
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: I think that these are kind of the workforce that

784
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: needs a union. They've been typically they're not a traditional

785
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: you know what we would call a traditional union, so

786
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: they've been kind of left behind on that. And now

787
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: they're standing up saying they want more. Uh, they want

788
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: to be able to negotiate over hours of work, working conditions,

789
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: all the things that a union does. So. I think

790
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna when when workers around the country, US and

791
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: Canada see what we're doing, I think they're they're gonna

792
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: step up and want to be part of this. I'm

793
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: very excited. I don't I don't think it's going to

794
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: slow down. I think it's gonna keep keep moving forward.

795
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: All right, David Selivian, General vice president at the International

796
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: Association of Machinists and Aerospace s Workers, thank you for

797
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: joining us. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.

798
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: We're back tomorrow with cloud Flair CEO Matthew Prince Proton

799
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: Mail CEO Andy En to talk big tech privacy. You

800
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: don't want to miss it. This is Bloomberg