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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Deeth. We are joined by

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Speaker 2: a very special guest for today's news episode. We have

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Speaker 2: reporter and host of Pop Crime TV, Lauren Conlin. Welcome, Lauren,

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. This is such

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Speaker 2: an honor.

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Speaker 3: Thanks to comment.

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Speaker 2: We thought it would be so cool to have you

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Speaker 2: because we're friends with you and we're usually like texting

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Speaker 2: back and forth with you about these stories and we're like,

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Speaker 2: wait a second, everybody might want to hear us talk

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Speaker 2: about it. So we also had that incredibly juicy dinner

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Speaker 2: a couple of last month.

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Speaker 3: I guess you know, it.

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Speaker 1: Was so fun. It was so fun, and yes, we

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Speaker 1: do go back and forth, and I wanted to ask you, Nicole,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get there, but the bodies and the

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Speaker 1: jet blue wheel, well, I was like, how is this possible?

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Speaker 1: How is this possible? And you're right, people do probably

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Speaker 1: want to hear about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So let's start talking about all right. So

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Speaker 2: we uncover a whole lot of true crime this week

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Speaker 2: when we came back from vacation, but obviously the biggest

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Speaker 2: thing that happened was there was a terrorist attack, So

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Speaker 2: let's start with that story maybe. Yeah, So, hours after

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Speaker 2: ringing in the New Year, a ton of people were

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Speaker 2: still partying on Bourbon Street in New Orleans, and then

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Speaker 2: suddenly this pickup truck came barreling down the street. He

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Speaker 2: hit a bunch of people, and then after that, he

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Speaker 2: gets out of the car and starts shooting as police

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Speaker 2: are responding to the scene. Yeah, that was terrible. We

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Speaker 2: were away on our trip where you guys were away too, right, Lauren.

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Speaker 1: You were away. I was in Florida, right, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just it was heartbreaking to wake up to news

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Speaker 1: like that. And I think that it's very scary when

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Speaker 1: you just see a couple headlines and you don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going on on. And to be honest, guys, the

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Speaker 1: FBI still doesn't know what's going on. I mean, this guy,

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Speaker 1: we think his name is shamsu Din Jabbar. I believe

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Speaker 1: he was radicalized for a number of reasons. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everything right now is pointing to that. Because he was

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Speaker 1: a US citizen, he was born and raised here. A

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Speaker 1: year before he carried out this New Year's Day attack,

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Speaker 1: he was in Egypt. He's spent a few month months

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Speaker 1: in Egypt, and you know, Egypt is known for having

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Speaker 1: a subsidiary of ISIS. And we know now that he

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Speaker 1: was flying an ISIS flag on the truck. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's scary. This ISIS subsidiary. It was founded,

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Speaker 1: I believe in twenty fourteen, and they took responsibility for

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different kidnappings and a bunch of different attacks.

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Speaker 1: And he it's called ISIS Sinai. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you've heard of this, but and it was actually I

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Speaker 1: stand corrected. It was formed in twenty eleven and it's

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Speaker 1: linked to al Qaeda. And yeah, I mean, he also

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Speaker 1: had a lot of different stuff going on in his life.

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Speaker 1: He was married multiple times, I believe, you know, two

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Speaker 1: or three times, and his latest divorce he was going

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Speaker 1: through that. He owed a lot of money, he wasn't

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Speaker 1: able to see his children. So I think at this

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Speaker 1: point it for me to speculate that he was radicalized.

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Speaker 1: I think that's valid for where we are right now

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Speaker 1: with the investigation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And I think you can't ignore that the

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Speaker 2: ISIS flag was in the truck as well. And then

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Speaker 2: we have to talk about the meta glasses too, and

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Speaker 2: him going to the scene of the crime in October,

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Speaker 2: riding around on a bicycle with these glasses which kind

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Speaker 2: of make him really easily blend in and scoping out

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Speaker 2: where he's going to plan this attack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that just proves that it was premeditated. To me,

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Speaker 1: you know, this was going to happen, whether whether or

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Speaker 1: not anybody suspected this guy to do anything. You know,

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Speaker 1: this was in his head and it's just it's heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think the FBI at first was saying

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Speaker 2: that it wasn't a terrorist attack because there were photos

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Speaker 2: circulating online very early on of FBI agents taking photos

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Speaker 2: of this flag that was in the back of his truck.

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Speaker 1: I think they say that to downplay things at first

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Speaker 1: and to possibly just mitigate the circumstances so people don't

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Speaker 1: go crazy. I mean, who knows. I think they're also

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Speaker 1: thinking of people that might want to just go crazy

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Speaker 1: on Muslims in general to retaliate who you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a number of reasons. But it bothered me a little

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Speaker 1: bit after the fact that they kept saying it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a terror attack over and over and over. Days later,

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Speaker 1: after we kind of found out a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about this guy's history, because I'm just like, you don't

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Speaker 1: know that yet, especially that the fact that we found

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Speaker 1: out that he did did the Egypt and he was

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Speaker 1: flying this flag. I mean, it's like, you got to

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Speaker 1: stop saying that because you don't you don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think back in the day, they used to be

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Speaker 2: able to do that, where there was only news on

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Speaker 2: the TV and you just listen to what you heard

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Speaker 2: and that's all you knew.

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Speaker 3: But they need to come up.

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Speaker 2: With a different way of approaching this because of social media,

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Speaker 2: because we're all on X and just like looking at

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Speaker 2: all of these pictures and stuff, and this is how

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Speaker 2: you lose trust in the government because you're trying to

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Speaker 2: tell us not to believe what we see with our

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Speaker 2: own eyes, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. And they also said something like we

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Speaker 1: believe that he did not work with anyone else, he

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Speaker 1: worked alone. I have I guess I have issue with this.

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Speaker 1: For them to go out and say it's statement like

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Speaker 1: that so quickly after the incident, I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: right either, because it could take months, it could take

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Speaker 1: a year for them to actually figure out if he

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Speaker 1: worked alone or not. He knew there were no barricades there,

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Speaker 1: and that was a huge, huge point of contention with

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Speaker 1: the Louisiana State Police and the City of New Orleans

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Speaker 1: in general, because there should be a barrier a fairly yeah,

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Speaker 1: and barricades, and somebody, I don't know if it was him,

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Speaker 1: but somebody had to inform him or alert him that

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Speaker 1: they weren't there, and it's wide open for him. But again,

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Speaker 1: I just think it's it's irresponsible to come out and

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Speaker 1: say things like that. He did not, you know, work

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Speaker 1: with anyone else. He worked alone. I just I don't

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Speaker 1: think that it's it's you know, it's it's confirmed at

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Speaker 1: this point.

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Speaker 3: Dude, my husband worked.

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Speaker 2: He is a firefighter, but he went to school for

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Speaker 2: emergency management. That was what his bachelor or his master's

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Speaker 2: degree was for. And I remember years ago we were

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Speaker 2: on the boardwalk just walking with all these people, and

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Speaker 2: he's just like this, this is what he learned in school.

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Speaker 2: So he's just looking around all the time, and he's like,

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Speaker 2: this is such a soft target. Someone could drive right

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Speaker 2: up this ramp and just mow down all these people.

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Speaker 2: And and I never I didn't think of it as

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Speaker 2: a regular mom walking on the boardwalk with my kids.

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Speaker 2: But now you're walking and I just was in Las

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Speaker 2: Vegas the other day. We're walking on that Friedmont Street,

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Speaker 2: like the original part of Vegas, and they had those

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Speaker 2: big barricades up that no one could drive through because

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Speaker 2: people are walking on that street all the time. And

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Speaker 2: you think like, Okay, if this was just there, this

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have happened, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I was just going to say. And now

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Speaker 2: that the super Bowl is happening in New Orleans next month,

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Speaker 2: they're saying they're amping security. But why weren't we amping

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Speaker 2: it in this party town on the biggest partying day

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Speaker 2: of the year.

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Speaker 1: That is the question. Why not on New yor Z Eve.

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Speaker 1: And just to go back to the driving, I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to law enforcement and just people that served on the

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Speaker 1: Anti Terrorism Task Force and they said that is one

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Speaker 1: of their biggest fears is vehicles because they can't be stopped,

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Speaker 1: right they can, and they cannot be traced as a

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Speaker 1: terror attack either. And I know that we're probably going

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Speaker 1: to get into the Lost Vegas attack as well, but

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Speaker 1: it is really interesting that both of these guys use

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Speaker 1: the Turo app from what I learned about the Tururo app.

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Speaker 1: It is a little bit more flexible, a little bit

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Speaker 1: more lucy goosey than let's say, renting a car from

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Speaker 1: Alamo or Enterprise and things of that nature, because Turo

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Speaker 1: you're actually renting it from another car owner. So it

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Speaker 1: is a little bit different. Again, I don't necessarily believe

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Speaker 1: in coincidences, but and I don't know if I'm going

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Speaker 1: if I'm jumping a gun too far here, But I

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Speaker 1: just want to point out Matthew Libbelsberger, who was responsible

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Speaker 1: for the cyber truck explosion and from Jabbar. They both

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Speaker 1: served at Fort Bragg, and they both served in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: and they both used the Turo app, and they carried

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Speaker 1: out these crimes on Me Year's Day. Again, it could

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Speaker 1: be nothing, but I do think it's worth it.

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Speaker 3: How is it? How is it nothing?

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Speaker 1: I know?

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Speaker 2: Are to ignore the coincidences in this case, with you know,

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Speaker 2: the cyber truck explosion at the Trump Hotel being only

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Speaker 2: hours after the New Orleans attack and same exact thing,

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Speaker 2: Like you're saying, they've both runted the cars through essentially

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Speaker 2: the same apps. They both were serving in the military.

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Speaker 2: They did say at some point they were at the

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Speaker 2: same case base camp, but they can't prove that their

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Speaker 2: time's overlapped right now.

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Speaker 3: So right, I think it'll be interesting to see if

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Speaker 3: there were connections, right, And.

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Speaker 1: It also could be you know, it could be a

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Speaker 1: little bit less conspiratorial than we're thinking. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: the other day, you know, I do believe it. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we've got We've got Luigi Mangioni, right who

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Speaker 1: shot the CEO. In his writings, he said something like, well,

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Speaker 1: I was possibly going to use a bomb, I'm paraphrasing,

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Speaker 1: but that would kill too many innocent people, you know.

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Speaker 1: Then we have Libelsberger and so by the way, to me,

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Speaker 1: that indicates that Luigi Manzioni is of sound mind. Then

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Speaker 1: you have Libbelsburger, who appears to not be of sound

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Speaker 1: mine because not only did he use explosives, but he

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Speaker 1: also died by suicide. That would indicate you're not of

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Speaker 1: sound mine. And then you've got from Sue Jabbar, which

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Speaker 1: to me, I believe he's radicalized. And I think there

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Speaker 1: could be a component of traumatic brain injury there with

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Speaker 1: Jabbar as well as Libelsburger, because they served in the army,

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Speaker 1: and we know that vets don't get treated very well.

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Speaker 1: That's my opinion in the United States. They don't get

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Speaker 1: the help they need. It's also looked down upon if

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Speaker 1: they reach out to somebody and say, I need help.

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Speaker 1: My head is not right, especially if they're still serving.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's really interesting here to possibly dive

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Speaker 1: into some of these head injuries that these guys could

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Speaker 1: possibly have death.

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Speaker 2: There was this other guy that carried out a mass

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Speaker 2: shooting a couple years back that had a history of

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Speaker 2: traumatic brain injury and being in the service as well.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that like up in Maine or I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it was Maine or no, it was

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Speaker 2: north of us, all right, remember that that he went

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Speaker 2: in the bowling alley and all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many of them you can't even keep

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Speaker 3: you can't even keep on top of it.

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Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to bring up was the metaw glasses, Like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent familiar with what, Like, what

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Speaker 2: what's the point of those positive?

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously yeah, no, I'm kind of with you.

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Speaker 1: To me, it's like body cam. It's like yoddycam footage.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's really all it is to me, because

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Speaker 1: I had a friend that had them, and I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of like, why are these so cool? It's just kind

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Speaker 1: of like you're recording in in four D. I guess

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Speaker 1: everything that's that's around you. But I don't even think

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Speaker 1: he was recording half the time. But these he was

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Speaker 1: wearing these glasses. It was only one or two instances.

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Speaker 2: What what I don't understand, Like I I just don't

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Speaker 2: understand why a person needs that, Like whether theread of

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Speaker 2: that technology in construction, Like a lot of construction workers

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Speaker 2: or architects will wear them as they're trying to landscape

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Speaker 2: projects and everything. But beyond at the mall, I just

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Speaker 2: don't yet landscrafters at the mall. I'm just trying to see,

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Speaker 2: Like they keep creating this Facebook Live, this, that and

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Speaker 2: the other, and you think, like, really, what is the point?

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Speaker 2: They don't ever sit there and say what are the

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Speaker 2: bad things that people are going to do with this

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Speaker 2: technology that we're making?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, this brings up a good point about this. In

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Speaker 2: the Vegas situation, he used chat gvt to help him,

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Speaker 2: oh magically plan this attack, and you know, the the

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Speaker 2: owners of chat gvt are trying to say basically that

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Speaker 2: their system is trained to flag these and not encourage

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Speaker 2: it or anything. But it was just using information already available.

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Speaker 3: On the internet.

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Speaker 2: So what kind of defense is that.

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Speaker 1: That's a horrible defense. And I mean, just going back

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Speaker 1: to Libelsburger. I don't know if you guys saw, but

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Speaker 1: there's this podcaster Sean Ryan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: Did you see all of that where he yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had someone on his show who got emails from

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Speaker 1: from Libelsburger and and they were describing him saying something

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Speaker 1: about drones and just again conspiratorial things. I believe that

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Speaker 1: some of these emails have been verified, but I mean

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Speaker 1: they were getting a lot of heat saying that they

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Speaker 1: weren't real, and I'm just like, what don't they have

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Speaker 1: to why would they lie about this stuff? It's not

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, They're not daining anything from

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Speaker 1: And I guess if he gets enough clicks and views

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Speaker 1: that I don't think he necessarily would need this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but he just blew up, like why would he

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Speaker 2: sabotage his his He had a good standing prior to this,

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Speaker 2: And no, I think the FBI has confirmed that these

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Speaker 2: are real emails from that guy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, so again, I don't know if all

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Speaker 1: of that. There was a bunch of them, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if all of them. I mean, you could

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Speaker 1: be right, I should I should have checked this morning,

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Speaker 1: but I guess I. He again, like MANGIONI, kind of

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Speaker 1: spells it out for us and says, this is not

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Speaker 1: a terror attack. He just needed to cleanse himself from

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Speaker 1: the deaths of his brothers and from all the people

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Speaker 1: that he killed while he was serving. And it's just

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Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking to be honest with you, and with even

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Speaker 1: more bizarre and it just tells me again, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a doctor, but he was going through it, and he

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Speaker 1: did have some kind of brain injury. As he's texting

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Speaker 1: his ex girlfriend like everything is fine, right, but his

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Speaker 1: wife had kicked him out. Apparently he's going through all

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Speaker 1: of these issues and everything's fine when he's texting her.

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Speaker 1: It's bizarre and sad.

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Speaker 2: Well, they can tell if he had traumatic encephalopathy from

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Speaker 2: having previous injuries, because what happens is if you have

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Speaker 2: a brain injury, one of them is probably okay, but

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Speaker 2: then it's something about having multiple brain injuries and then

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Speaker 2: you start just having almost signs of dementia. This was

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Speaker 2: first noticed in boxers actually from getting punched in the

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Speaker 2: head all of the time, and they can't really die,

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Speaker 2: no sit until autopsy because they have to look at

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Speaker 2: the brain under the microscope, and obviously you can't really

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Speaker 2: do without huge chunks of your brain while you're still alive. Now,

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Speaker 2: the problem in his case is going to be that

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Speaker 2: he was burned so bad in this particular suicide, but

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Speaker 2: there might still be viable brain tissue left. Because you

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Speaker 2: think that he was burned beyond recognition and of so

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Speaker 2: that makes you think that, you know, he might have

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Speaker 2: been skeletonized or something like that, but that's just not

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Speaker 2: the case. If you even if you want to cremate somebody,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't completely make their body just ashes, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean. You have to cook somebody, cook, use

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Speaker 2: the word cook for a very long time at a

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Speaker 2: high temperature, for so sixteen hundred to eighteen hundred degrees

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Speaker 2: fahrenheit for ninety minutes to cremate a person. Right, so

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Speaker 2: this particular fire was at a high it was a

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Speaker 2: high temperature, but just he was only in that short

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Speaker 2: period of time. So not to be gross, but think

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Speaker 2: about sticking a piece of steak in the oven even

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Speaker 2: if it's at nine hundred or one thousand degrees, you

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Speaker 2: stick it in for a minute. It's not going to

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Speaker 2: cook it all the way through, right, It's just going

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Speaker 2: to be crispy on the outside kind of and raw

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Speaker 2: on the inside. And that's what happens in some of

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Speaker 2: these fire deaths. So that's how they were able to

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Speaker 2: determine that he shot himself before the fire, because they

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Speaker 2: could tell that he was hemorrhaging before the fire, rather

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Speaker 2: than getting shot after.

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Speaker 3: He was already burned.

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Speaker 2: So he does have some soft tissue left, so I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if they'll have enough to be able to

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Speaker 2: look at it. Do you want to talk about too,

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Speaker 2: how they identified his body.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about this about the tattoo.

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Speaker 1: How are they able if he's charred to a crisp

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Speaker 1: how are they able to sort of still see a tattoo.

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Speaker 2: So a tattoo is actually on where you're looking at it.

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Speaker 2: Your skin is the epidermis, but it goes deep into

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Speaker 2: the dermis of the skin and the bottom layers of

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Speaker 2: the skin.

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Speaker 3: So if he had any skin left.

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Speaker 2: They would still be able to see it. And we

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Speaker 2: have a friend, her name is a friend Michelle Miranda,

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Speaker 2: doctor Michelle Miranda. But she does forensic tattoo. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you've ever seen her on Instagram, but she

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Speaker 2: just focuses and just does research in forensic tattoos.

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Speaker 3: It's really cool and wow.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so she would be I mean, you could

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Speaker 2: talk to her about this for hours, how they identify

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Speaker 2: people and stuff. But yeah, I don't think that his

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Speaker 2: whole entire body was so charred that there was no

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Speaker 2: way to see. It's just maybe especially he shot himself

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Speaker 2: in the head and then the explosion occurred because of

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Speaker 2: those gases near his head, so that his teeth were missing,

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Speaker 2: his facial features weren't recognizable anymore, but his arm or

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Speaker 2: wherever he had the tattoo, that piece of skin could

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Speaker 2: have still been present, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just confused about that because there was

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Speaker 1: all these reports that he was charred to occur. Then

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we were able to identify him with

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Speaker 1: the tattoo, And I'm like, oh, no, that's I don't

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Speaker 1: get it. But also iw.

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Speaker 2: You know, and yeah, and that's and and that's what

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Speaker 2: starts speculating. All the speculation starts online because there's all

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Speaker 2: of these pictures online of his id was like barely charred, right,

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Speaker 2: so people and the gun was bare so they're like,

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Speaker 2: how come the fire was so bad that you can't

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Speaker 2: even recognize him? But like I said, he and he

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Speaker 2: even looked this up. He was looking up how to

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Speaker 2: carry this out, and he looked up how if he

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Speaker 2: shot himself, how that fire coming out of the gun

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Speaker 2: would cause the explosion, So that all happened near his head.

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Speaker 2: So I would say that that's where the majority of

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Speaker 2: the damage and the fire were from the initial explosion.

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Speaker 2: But your body's also made with fat. That that's fuel,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, that's that fuels the fire.

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Speaker 2: Whereas if those things were at the bottom of his feet,

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Speaker 2: it is possible because there were witnesses, they got him

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Speaker 2: out really fast, you know what I mean, and he

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Speaker 2: wasn't in there too long. So that's what I think

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Speaker 2: happened with that. Were you also freaking out because I

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Speaker 2: read he was originally planning to take this out at

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Speaker 2: the Grand Canyon and you were there, right, yeah, that

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Speaker 2: wad I didn't hear that that was the original plan.

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Speaker 2: And I guess right now they're trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: why he made the last minute change. Wait seriously, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm not joking. I'm really happy because I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: freak out about this ship.

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Speaker 3: I would have been like, we're not going there, you

378
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Speaker 3: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Like, well, it would have been around what day were

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Speaker 2: you there on that day or the day after?

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Speaker 3: I was there? No, I was there.

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Speaker 2: I was there the day I was there on January second. Problem,

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Speaker 2: So what happened the day before?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Wow, yeah I was there January second.

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Speaker 1: That theory scary, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: But the whole time I was I went to a

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Speaker 2: lot of these different places with the National Parks aspect,

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Speaker 2: like the Grand Canyon. We waited in line for over

390
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Speaker 2: an hour in our car just to get in. So

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Speaker 2: there's so many people there, like and of course, now

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Speaker 2: my husband's got me thinking the same exact way of

393
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Speaker 2: just like this could totally happen, Like why wouldn't they

394
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Speaker 2: just come here?

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Speaker 3: There's all these people. It's it's freaking scary, man.

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Speaker 1: People are scary.

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Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, it's really terrifying, and you know, to think

398
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Speaker 2: this his hack could have been so much worse. But

399
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Speaker 2: they were saying the cyber truck was actually one of

400
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Speaker 2: the poorish choices of cars to do this because it

401
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Speaker 2: contained most of the explosion. So if it was any

402
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Speaker 2: other car, it could have been way worse and injured

403
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Speaker 2: a bunch of people. But at least, you know, only

404
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Speaker 2: maybe he intentionally did that so other people wouldn't get hurt.

405
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Speaker 1: I mean, I know that would make him too sound

406
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Speaker 1: of mine, I don't know, you know what I mean.

407
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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I you're right, because I did see

408
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Speaker 1: that the if he had a different type of car,

409
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Speaker 1: it wouldn't necessarily go upward like you had that. It

410
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Speaker 1: kind of got his head and it went upward the

411
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Speaker 1: explosion and the fire. But just going back to some

412
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Speaker 1: of the conspiracies, you know, Elon Musk, he shot down

413
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Speaker 1: a couple of conspiracies of people who said, well, maybe

414
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Speaker 1: somebody shot him or forced him to shoot himself and

415
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Speaker 1: then the car drove itself to the location. But Elon

416
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Speaker 1: Musk said, no, you have to be an active presence

417
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Speaker 1: in the driver's seat in order for it to do that.

418
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Speaker 1: But I do think it it cannot be lost. The

419
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Speaker 1: symbolism here, right, you have an Elon Musk car in

420
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Speaker 1: front of a Trump hotel. It's just it's beyond me

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Speaker 1: and this guy was supposedly a Trump supporter, so that

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Speaker 1: right there, I'm like, well, I've already said I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily believe in coincidences, But what does that mean? What

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00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: what does that mean to everybody?

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Speaker 3: It is? It's so weird. I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: You can't you can't ignore that at all, right.

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Speaker 1: So we just don't have answers. That's yeah, there's no.

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Speaker 3: But will will they?

429
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 2: In both cases, with both terrorist attacks, their loved ones

430
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: were saying they seemed totally normal and didn't especially with

431
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: the first guy in New Orleans, they didn't seem any

432
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: there was any signs of him being radicalized until he

433
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Speaker 2: started posting all those videos on Facebook hours before the

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Speaker 2: attack exactly. And which is a whole other thing, because

435
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, I'm censored on Instagram so bad, oh, I

436
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 2: mean for years. And I'm just like, if they can

437
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: figure out that I'm posting a video of someone getting

438
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 2: open heart surgery or something and they could take it

439
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: down within a minute, I just don't understand how they

440
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 2: can't find this stuff and have keywords or something that

441
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: triggers the.

442
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: System that gets it off right away. I know they

443
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 3: have it.

444
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: I just know it, you know, Well, they now I

445
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: think things are going to be a little bit more

446
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: lucy goosey, if you will, because he's making changes. Mark

447
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg to Facebook saying they're not going to start putting

448
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: those misinformation disclaimers and whatnot. And I mean, yeah, I

449
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: get it, because whatever you were doing was really working

450
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: for everybody. And you're right, it wasn't exactly quote unquote fair.

451
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't. There was no balance, if you will,

452
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: because why would you get censored but this guy wouldn't.

453
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Well, we can go. We could talk a

454
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 3: whole episode about about that, about everything.

455
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 2: All right, Should we shift gears to Brian Coburger, Yes, yes, yes.

456
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: All right.

457
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 2: So if anybody has ever listened to the show before,

458
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 2: we have talked at length about Brian Coburger. So for

459
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: those of you who don't know, which has to be

460
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: less than one percent of our listeners, he was the man.

461
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 3: Listen. I'm serious.

462
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll be at a party or something and they'll say, like,

463
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: what case is the biggest case that you're interested in

464
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 2: this year? And I always say, oh, Brian Coberger and stuff,

465
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, if I haven't heard of that,

466
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: And I'm.

467
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: Like, what the fuck?

468
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: Wait? Do you that? Like me? My husband told me

469
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: other this is so weird, and I'm sorry to interrupt you,

470
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: but the exact same thing happened to me. I brought

471
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,239
Speaker 1: it up at a party, exactly a party because I'm like, well,

472
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: if anybody knows any crime story that has to be Idaho,

473
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: it has to be Coburger. And I was shocked, just

474
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: like you. I was like, you don't know that, and

475
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: my husband's like, not everybody is as crazy as you

476
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: or as you know.

477
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like.

478
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: What do you mean? This is on mainstream news. It's

479
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: not like it's just me talking about it exactly.

480
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 3: It's absolutely crazy.

481
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: My husband's one of those people though, that just will

482
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: have absolutely no idea. What's like major freaking news last night?

483
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: I said, did you see all these? I said, text

484
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: your cousin who lives in LA and make sure he's okay.

485
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: And he's like about, what, Oh my god, I don't know.

486
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 3: The entire city's burning down.

487
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: It's not funny.

488
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 2: I like, I kind of get jealous of people that

489
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 2: could live in that world, really, because it must be

490
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: you know, ignorance is bliss, Like it just must be

491
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: so nice to just not be worried at all times.

492
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: Like every day you wake up and I'm thinking, like yesterday, okay,

493
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about this terrorist attack that was horrible,

494
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: and then you're like, wait a second, LA is burning

495
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: down right now, and all.

496
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: This has happened. It's just like all the time it's

497
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: turned on.

498
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: You know, Nicole, I'm with you. I say that all

499
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: the time. I kind of wish I used to be

500
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: very ignorant, and I kind of wish I was back

501
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: in that in that place. But I mean I do

502
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: when I don't. But it's weird because you go to

503
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: bed at night and your brain just starts spinning. For

504
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: me anyway, and I'm always just thinking. I always just

505
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: make sure to pray and to be I tell my

506
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: kids never take an ordinary day for granted, because ordinary

507
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: days are the best days. You go about your routine,

508
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: nothing's wrong, and I think that's just important to remember

509
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: all the time, especially with the climate that we live

510
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: in right now.

511
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 3: Oh definitely.

512
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 2: So for those of you who don't know about this case,

513
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: which I could confidently say that three of us are

514
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: slightly judging you for Frankoberger is the man Chargers killing

515
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: four students in Moscow, Idaho, and he was apparently investigated

516
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: in another home invasion a year before that.

517
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: Yes, well they didn't investigate him until he was the

518
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: suspect for the the Yes, the four murders in Idaho

519
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: are the four co eds. So yeah, I mean at

520
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: first that was a little bit unclear to me. They

521
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: looked at him, yes, exactly, yeah, yeah, And I mean, guys,

522
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: I have to say, I think that this is going

523
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: to help him in his trial. And I do. I

524
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: think this is going to help him because even though

525
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: they said he's got these bushy eyebrows, and that was,

526
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, a huge descriptive element that the one surviving

527
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: roommate had described he had these bushy eyebrows. So did

528
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 1: the person whose house he broke into, or the whatever

529
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: perpose this is, whoever this guy is, uh, he broke

530
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: into this house and they described this purpose having bushy

531
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: eyebrows as well. However, there is a big difference in

532
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: their heights. Yeah, right, So this Brian Coburger is around

533
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: six feet is that right?

534
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's about six feet Is it possible that

535
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: this other person has the height off? Because what grown

536
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: adult male is five foot three there's not many of them.

537
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it, like, like I know that

538
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: you've seen guys that are that small, but like not really. Ever,

539
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: it's very rare to see a dude that's five foot three.

540
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: You're right, You're right.

541
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: I mean that's how I don't know how tall you are.

542
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: I'm five foot I'm almost five foot nine, right, Like, OK,

543
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: for guys to be shorter than me already is rare,

544
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: and that short is every you're like five, I'm five,

545
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: I'm five four, which they said that this aspect was

546
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: between five three and five to five, So yeah, around

547
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: my height. That's just it's I mean not to say

548
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: that that's not possible obviously, but it's it's just like

549
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: keep that in mind that that's not that cool. The

550
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: other thing going against him was he wasn't yet enrolled

551
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: in the university, so it's not like the height was

552
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: the only difference. I think there are, you know, weird

553
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: similarities in the sense of broken in the middle of

554
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: the night was silent through the entire exchange, holding a

555
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: knife sche mask. You're right that this is going to

556
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: hurt him, because if it's definitely not him, then who's

557
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: that person that is called that's what.

558
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna help him. I think that they're

559
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: gonna say, well, what about this guy who has the

560
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: same type of m O. However, this guy is much shorter.

561
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: Why are you not looking into this guy? Why are

562
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: you only a focused hyper focused on my client. I

563
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: feel like that's what his team is going to say,

564
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: if they're good defense attorneys or public defenders, whatever he's using.

565
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: I believe a public defender. And she is good. That's

566
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: the thing. She is good and thus far I think,

567
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean personally, you guys, I think he's guilty. He

568
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 1: is the guy where there is Unford. Okay, there's no

569
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind he is the guy.

570
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: Why just because his mugshot is the scariest freakin' thing ever. Like,

571
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: I'm sorry when that when that came out and they

572
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: were like, because we were on it was wasn't it

573
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: last year around there or two years ago around this

574
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: time twenty Yeah, because we usually go away that time

575
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: and we're in the car and I hear that they

576
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: have a suspect and when that picture came across, it

577
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: like scared me.

578
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: When I looked at his eyes, I.

579
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: Know he's scary. He is blank behind him. Yeah, he

580
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: is blank and that's it for me. I mean, also,

581
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: I do think they have a lot of evidence against

582
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: him or that they can use against him, just because

583
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: they don't have the murder weapon. I don't think that's

584
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: going to be an issue. I really don't. I don't

585
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: think we've seen all of the DNA testing it. I

586
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: mean we haven't. That's just that's factual. So I believe

587
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: that he is the guy. But this is going to

588
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: be I think this is going to be big or

589
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: a big part of his defense. Like why didn't you

590
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: look at this guy, this shorter guy who seemed to

591
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: have the same features supposedly as my client here. I mean,

592
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: you guys had your mind made up already. You didn't

593
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: do any other investigating. And that's kind of what Scott

594
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: Peterson said, right there was a burglary. Why didn't you

595
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: look into this burglary? You had your mind, you know,

596
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: made up about me? And I just don't think I

597
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: don't think it's it's necessarily going to matter in the end,

598
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: but it's something, right.

599
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: Think about the people that the woman that was in

600
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: the first burglary in twenty twenty one. Also, so you

601
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,959
Speaker 2: know this happens in twenty twenty one, in October, and

602
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: then they don't think they can't catch anybody who's done it.

603
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden at the beginning of

604
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, so they were saying thirteen days after

605
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: Cober was arrested, that's when they started looking into him

606
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: for this case, this other case potentially. So now you're thinking,

607
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: not only did somebody break in my house, but it

608
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: was potentially this horrific murderer, and thank god I escaped that,

609
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, now they don't think

610
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: he did it, and now your case is still unsolved. Yeah,

611
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: it's very scary to think about. You know, we had

612
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: a similar thing happened in our family when I was thirteen.

613
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: Somebody broke in our house when I was home alone

614
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: with my younger cousin, and I've been able to be

615
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: at peace with that because they caught the person very quickly,

616
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: and luckily nothing happened to us. So I'm thinking about

617
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: how horrific this entire situation must have been.

618
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: I am I'm shook. That is so traumatizing for you.

619
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: It was because I was a single mom and I

620
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: was at work, and it was during the summer and

621
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: she was home.

622
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 3: I was working in the pathology lab like.

623
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: Normal day, and I get a call that Maria calls

624
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: me and she's like, someone's in the house. And I

625
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: was like, well, we had just didn't we just move

626
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: in and we just moved in that house I think

627
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: three months before. So she said she go I said,

628
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: what do you mean, and she's like, there's a guy

629
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: in the living room. And then I still I didn't

630
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: think anything of it because I thought my sister was

631
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: still home and was it was like the cable person

632
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: or whatever, because we were living with my sister and

633
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: my niece at the time. And I was like, oh,

634
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: it's probably just the Comcast guy like putting in the cable, right,

635
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: And then I said, we'll go upstairs and tell Annie.

636
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: And then she told me that she wasn't home, and

637
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god. And luckily the cops

638
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: came and everything, and here it was just this guy

639
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: that was like a drifter walking up the street and

640
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: he was high on drugs and he just wandered in

641
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: the house. There was cash on the table, he didn't

642
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: even touch it. Like it ended up working out so fine.

643
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: Wait, Maria, you did see like, did he see you

644
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: and your cousin?

645
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: So this is what happened.

646
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: So we lived in this Victorian house and I was

647
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: sleeping in your bedroom and my mom's bedroom at the

648
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: time had one door that went into the living room

649
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: and one door that went to the upstairs because it

650
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: was like a former like drawing room or whatever, the

651
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: old setup. So I heard a bunch of noise. We had,

652
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: like you know, this was what two thousand in two

653
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, so we had like beads in the

654
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: window whatever the style was at the time, and I'm

655
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: hearing these beads moving like crazy, and I'm like, what

656
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: is that noise? So I opened the door and I

657
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: see this like huge man just standing in the dining room.

658
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: And you know, I had been asleep, so I didn't know.

659
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was going on.

660
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 3: Like you, I assumed maybe it was a cable person

661
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 3: or something.

662
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: We just moved in and that's why I called you

663
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: and then called Anny to see where you were. And

664
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: then it was clear that the person wasn't supposed to.

665
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: Be in there.

666
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: So luckily I was able to back into the bedroom,

667
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: close that door, go out the other door, and go upstairs.

668
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: And then we just like you know, threw a dresser

669
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: in front of the door, waited for the cops to

670
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: get there. But it was and I feel like I'm

671
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: in a really lucky situation because nothing bad happened. I

672
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: didn't really have an interaction per se. I just saw

673
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: this man that was turned around. So they cops came.

674
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: She described him perfectly. They found him walking up the street.

675
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: Then we had to go with the cops and she

676
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: had to identify the person in a lineup, which was

677
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: it was it was outrageous, but but yeah, and she

678
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 2: one hundred she described them one hundred percent. The cops

679
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: were just like, yo, your daughter is like on her shit,

680
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: like one hundred percent. And then she pointed him out

681
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: and it just was like it was so insane. But

682
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: my general point is, like I had I had, I

683
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: had a home invasion situation that went pretty good all

684
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: things considered. So I'm thinking about waking up three point

685
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: thirty in the morning there's a man in a ski

686
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 2: mask holding a knife. I don't know if I'm about

687
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: to get murdered, it's actually assaulted or what. And then

688
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: they've never caught this person.

689
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I'd move I would move far far away.

690
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: I'm serious, I would they regardless if it was Coburger now,

691
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: which at this point they're saying it wasn't. They still

692
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 2: need to keep that investigation open and try to find that.

693
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: Person, especially if he was that much smaller than Coburger.

694
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: But Nicole, you bring up a great point. It is

695
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I mean, I don't know the

696
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: last time I have seen a man smaller than me.

697
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: You're right, I don't go out that much anymore, but

698
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: in life in general, I haven't seen like a dad

699
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: at school that's that much smaller than me. So I

700
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: guess that's what I'm thinking of. But no, that's a

701
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: good point. I just I feel like I need this

702
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: trial to happen. I would like to move on with

703
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: my life some of me that you know what I mean.

704
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: I mean, And also I do believe, you know, the

705
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: families are are just clearly beside themselves. And I don't

706
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: want to speak out of my ass because I don't

707
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: know what it feels like. But I would think that

708
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: they need him to be convicted in order to start

709
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: healing and to move on with their life or or

710
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: this part of their life. And again I don't know.

711
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend like I know, but for me,

712
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: I think I would want that and that would help

713
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: me heal or start to heal, I should say, but

714
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting, and you guys weigh in here.

715
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: But the whole death penalty by firing squad, they're saying

716
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: that is technically more humane than lethal injection, Nicole, I

717
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: mean it is, it.

718
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: Is, It is for sure, yeah, because you'll get shot

719
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 2: and you'll die right away.

720
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 3: The lethal injection is really terrible.

721
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: Actually, all the autopsies that they do on those people

722
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: have signs of pulmonary edema, which means like you essentially

723
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: feel like you're drowning and you're alive for a while

724
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: before death occurs. Which, listen, I don't have a problem

725
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 2: if some of these people suffer, to be honest with you,

726
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 2: but yeah, if you want to, if you really want

727
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: to get like get the job done and be the

728
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: least pain as possible, then just shoot the person in

729
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 2: the head right away and like end it for them

730
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: right or the chest, you know, I don't know where

731
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: they I think they aim for the heart, probably, I'm

732
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: not I don't think that they've met someone in that.

733
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: I don't know. I really don't even know about it.

734
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: I just know that I've always said that, like if

735
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 2: you're gonna it's the same thing like if you want

736
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: to talk, I shouldn't even say this out loud, but suicide,

737
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 2: like you definitely do not want to OD on medication.

738
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 3: You would want to just shoot yourself to take in medication.

739
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 3: It's the worst way to go.

740
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: We had a girl one time that I got some

741
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: woman tried to o D on Thailand all, very young girl,

742
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: like seventeen years old, tried to o D on Thailand

743
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: all and she lived her She had to get her

744
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: liver taken out. It was terrible. I had another person

745
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: that drank bleach before and she ended up living and

746
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: they had to take out her esophagus because the bleach

747
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: totally corroded her esophagus. Just like things like that, and

748
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: you're just like, shooting is just kind of like right,

749
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: it's done, you know what I mean?

750
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: Women don't tell you that. No. I studied this a

751
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: little bit last year. I was I was researching for

752
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: the Sandra Birchmore case. Who they did you know that case? No,

753
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: she was pregnant and it actually it's a horrific case.

754
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: I mean, she was groomed allegedly by these police officers.

755
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: He's Stoughton police officers in Massachusetts, and one of them,

756
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: who was Mary, got her pregnant. She died by suicide,

757
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: but it was so bizarre because they she died with

758
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: a It was she hung herself, but it wasn't really

759
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: a hanging. She tied one part to the doorknob and

760
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: then she opened it or something however that works. But

761
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: it was just weird because women don't necessarily do that.

762
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: They generally take pills. So that right there was like

763
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: a huge red flag, I guess. And then later it

764
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: was determined that it was a homicide and not a suicide.

765
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: But that's what kind of caused me to look into

766
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: females in general and the manner in which they try

767
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: to die by suicide. So not to be super depressing, sorry,

768
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, it is. It's rare for females to use guns.

769
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm not sure what they're going to do

770
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: with him, but I've always had this theory since this

771
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: whole entire case started, that there's just more to the case.

772
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 2: And I don't know, because he's a criminal justice student

773
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: in a PhD program that maybe he was trying to

774
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: carry out this murder so he could write a paper

775
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: about it somehow about the investigation and stuff like there's

776
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 2: some kind of spin to it. I don't know, Like

777
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: I keep trying to think he is he an intelligent person,

778
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: you know, like a super uh what like Ted Kaczinsky

779
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: type of person? Or is he just like I don't

780
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 2: believe that he would be so sloppy with leaving the

781
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: knife sheath.

782
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 3: And the DNA. I don't know, you know what I mean, Like,

783
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: I'm like, you can't be that smart and in that

784
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 3: program and no, but couldn't he be prepared for the

785
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: adrenaline If this was really his first time, I was.

786
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: Just gonna say that it was his first It was

787
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: his first time, really I believe carrying out murders like this.

788
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: And you could say the same thing for Luigi Mangioni.

789
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he's an IVY league grad. He most likely

790
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: planned this for a very long period of time, but

791
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: even he messed up. If if you don't have the experience,

792
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: I would think that your first time is not going

793
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: to be perfect, especially if you're committing crimes of this stature.

794
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: It's not like it's your I mean, I don't I

795
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: don't want to minimize other crimes and other victims I

796
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: guess or other survivors, but your first time, you want

797
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: to just stab for people in a house full of

798
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: multiple people. And I mean he knew he was allegedly

799
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: he was at the house many times before this happened,

800
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: and Luigi MANGIONI, I feel like he was watching Brian

801
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: Thompson before. That's how he knew the entrance he was

802
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: going to come in, and he had planned this and

803
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: and you know it was thought out. It's just like

804
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: you don't know until you're actually doing it.

805
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: In my opinion, Yeah, well, I mean that's true.

806
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: And you you're taking someone's life, you don't you don't

807
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: know how you're going to react to that. It's not

808
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: the same as killing someone on a video game, right,

809
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: Like there's emotions associated with that, right right. And and

810
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: the way Brian Coberger did it was just so it's

811
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: not like shot and the body fell down and you

812
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: walk away. I mean it was it was engaging and

813
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: gruesome and very gruesome and not even expecting how I mean,

814
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: if you you saw the blood dripping outside of the house,

815
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 2: I mean it was. It was a scene I can't

816
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: even imagine. I can't imagine. I just for first responders

817
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: and for forensic investigators to have to walk into that,

818
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: I just I can't.

819
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

820
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so personal. It's so personal. I mean,

821
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: you're you're fighting as a victim. You're fighting and fighting

822
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: and fighting, and at what point, you know, I've thought

823
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: about this with other cases I've covered, But at what

824
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,479
Speaker 1: point does your body just stop fighting? Right? At which point?

825
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Because you hear about these victims and how many times

826
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: they were stabbed, and how badly it would hurt just

827
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: for you to be stabbed once, you know, let alone

828
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: sixteen to thirty times. I mean, it's unspeakable. It's just

829
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: something that I wish I could get out of my head.

830
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: But again, go going back to when I lay down

831
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: at night and I try to go to sleep, these

832
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: are the things that my messed up brain thinks about.

833
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, wait till the trial and you start hearing

834
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: about the actual autopsy reports and they tell I don't

835
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 3: know how much of that they're going to publicize, but

836
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 3: it's going to be worse than we even could imagine.

837
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: Really, right, Well, I feel like this is when we

838
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 2: were watching the Jodyarias trial, which I was way too

839
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: young to be watching every single day, but I feel

840
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: like every day as the more information came out, and

841
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 2: like you're saying, the stabbing are so intimate and you

842
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: have to keep doing it over and over. So her

843
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 2: self defense argument was like, Okay, how many times did

844
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: she end up stabbing him, like thirty over thirty times

845
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: or something crazy? Right, So at what point is it like,

846
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: all right, it's definitely not self defense because most people

847
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 2: wouldn't just keep engaging like that exactly.

848
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: And I've been covering a case out of Kansas or Oklahoma,

849
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: i should say, but I recently returned from the pre

850
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: trial hearing and these two women, one of them was

851
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: in a custody battle with basically her mother, her ex

852
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: mother in law. She was never married to her son,

853
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: but the ex mother in law allegedly planned got four

854
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: other people to help plan her murder, and also her

855
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: supervisor who was kind of like an acquaintance of hers

856
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: or a girlfriend of hers, who was a mother of

857
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: four and a preacher's wife and the mother of four

858
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: she was stabbed sixteen times, who she had nothing to

859
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: do with anything right, nothing to do with anything. And

860
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: then you have Veronica, who was in the middle of

861
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: all this. She was stabbed over thirty times. And I

862
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: think Nicole, you would find Gillian, the supervisor her autopsy

863
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: really troubling because they and after hearing what I heard

864
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 1: at the pre trial hearing, I believe she was paralyzed.

865
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: And the defendant who saw her after she was stabbed,

866
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: I believe fourteen times he noticed that she was blinking

867
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: and not moving, and so he decided to stab her

868
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: in the jugular, and I believe that is what killed her.

869
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: But he thought to himself, well, we're going to bury

870
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: these women, it's probably better if I stab her then

871
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: have her wake up fifteen feet underground in a chest freezer.

872
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, wow, you're so You're so kind,

873
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: How nice are you? But it's the most disturbing and

874
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: terrifying case I have come across in a very very

875
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: long time justice fase women cannot.

876
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: There's definitely a difference between people who kill people like

877
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: that versus.

878
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 3: Just shooting someone, you know what I mean?

879
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, totally sorry. I didn't mean to bring it

880
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: down that much.

881
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 3: But yeah, sorry, I'm like, no, you're good. I mean

882
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: we're always on our show.

883
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: That's the thing. It's like our show, and it's the

884
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: same vibe as yours. Like we try to keep positive

885
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: and be and laughing about certain things, but we're also

886
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: talking about terrible the most terrible day in some people's lives.

887
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, yes, all right, let's talk about this. This

888
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 3: nick you nurse.

889
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: So in the last couple of months at this Virginia hospital,

890
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: a couple of newborns in the nick you were suffering

891
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: what they are calling unexplainable fractures, which prompted this internal investigation.

892
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: So is it common that dead babies get fractures or

893
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: in the nicku they would be more susceptible to getting fractures. No,

894
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: I mean when the most common injury or fracture that

895
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: would occur in a newborn like that is when they're

896
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: being born and they're getting either pulled out of a

897
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 2: C section, their breech presentation, or they're stuck in the

898
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: vaginal canal. Sometimes, like even one of my coworkers, his

899
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: son's clavigal got broke when they were pulling the You know,

900
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: when they're using four steps to pull a baby out

901
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: that's stuck, right, and it's sometimes they have to do

902
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 2: excessive force to get the kid out because they don't

903
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: want I mean, a broken clavigal isn't a dead.

904
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: Baby, right, right.

905
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: So that's the most common call of a fracture, and

906
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 2: a newborn like that is accidental, you would say. When

907
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: you see fractures in children that are under eighteen months

908
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: old that don't walk yet, it's almost always child abuse.

909
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: Wow. Oh well, yeah, I just want to know this woman.

910
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: I was trying to search her on Facebook. I just

911
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: what is your background, like, what is her what was

912
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: her childhood like that she allegedly felt the need to

913
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 1: do this. Could she not have children of her own?

914
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: I mean I always try to look into to one's psyche. Again,

915
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 1: not a doctor, don't have any type of degree there.

916
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: But you got to wonder, she's not just doing this

917
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: quote for fun, right, She's got to be telling herself

918
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: something that that makes her do this, that makes her

919
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: think that this is the right thing to do. I mean,

920
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: that's just something that it's so horrific and it's so disturbing.

921
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to make sense of it. I guess, yeah.

922
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: And I saw photos her from when she graduated from

923
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: nursing school, and it's like, it looks like she has

924
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: a supportive family that was there that I think the

925
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: same thing. I'm like, what happened in this young how

926
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: she's young right like twenty she's twenty six, and it

927
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 2: seems like she's been a nurse for at least five years.

928
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: And I guess what prompted this investigation in particular was

929
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: three babies ended up getting fractures between November and December

930
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: of last year, and then when they started investigating it,

931
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: they realized they had four similar cases from the summer

932
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three. So there are seven potential victims

933
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: that they know about, right, so and so, one of

934
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 2: the dads of the victims was interviewed and said that

935
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: all of so, all seven babies have the same thing

936
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: in common is that they're all male.

937
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: It's so gross. I mean, they're babies. I yeah, that's

938
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: that's where I'm just like, no. And when you said

939
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: something about people facing lethal injection and some of these

940
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: people possibly deserve to suffer, people that harm children and babies, Yeah,

941
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: they deserve to suffer. Yeah, I say, yeah, I don't care.

942
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: They deserve it. That's that's it's inhumane. I mean a child,

943
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: a baby, an infant, They can't defend themselves. My gosh.

944
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: No, we always are bringing up the argument, why are

945
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: you going through all of the schooling and everything to

946
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 2: end up doing these egregious crimes And she's only twenty

947
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: six year old? Twenty six year old, I mean she's

948
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: facing now up to potentially thirty years in prison between

949
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: the multiple charges she has. So you've completely ruined your

950
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: life and you you've barely just started your adult life.

951
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: What are you thinking doing this? You will get her goal?

952
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 3: I don't.

953
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: There's just more to it, because if you're a nurse

954
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: and you have any education, like you know that you're

955
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 2: going to get in trouble doing this. You're It's not

956
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 2: something you could just get away with. You can't just

957
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: say any of your patients has a weird thing. You

958
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: can't just be like, oh, I don't know how that happened,

959
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: and they're not be an investigation. And there's specifically like

960
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: orthopedic doctors that specialize in this. They could tell fractures

961
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: that happen if they're typical with abuse or whatever, like

962
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: they have certain looks to them these cases, certain areas

963
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: of the bone if they're broken, they're almost always associated

964
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 2: with abuse cases because they just don't naturally break like that,

965
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: you know. So when she did that, she had to

966
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: know that they were going to do imaging and they

967
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 2: were an investigation. So it's not like, remember like Charles Colin,

968
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 2: the one that was so yeah, he's just going to

969
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: bring that up. Okay, so do you do you know

970
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 2: about that case? My friend Amy, she was in this.

971
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: It's the movie The Good on Netflix, but it's based

972
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: off of the nurse serial killer who killed they think

973
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: up to four hundred victims. But basically, the hospitals knew

974
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: he was a problem and knew he was probably killing

975
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: these patients, but didn't want the pr crisis, so they

976
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: just kept moving him around.

977
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: Oh I do remember, yes, Oh my gosh.

978
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 2: But he was like slipping things into the ivy. It

979
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: was like a little less obvious that he was doing it,

980
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 2: and then they would say, Okay, this person just went

981
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 2: into a diabetic coma, and then they thought, Okay, that's weird.

982
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: But it started like not adding up. But it was

983
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: a little bit more discreet than just blatantly breaking a

984
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 2: neonates leg, you know, like it's just so weird.

985
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you guys watch Dexter Original Sin?

986
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did. I didn't start the new one yet though,

987
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 3: Oh that's.

988
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: What I mean. So no, No, the new one's called

989
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: Original Sin. And there this is not giving anything away.

990
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: It's actually so good by the way. I didn't think

991
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: I would like it because I love the original characters,

992
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 1: but I love this. But there is the cliche nurse

993
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: that you know, harms people. And again this doesn't really

994
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: give anything away. But it's what you said, it's very

995
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: it's subtle, it's not breaking limbs. And you'd think that

996
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: if you're going to do that, you would do it

997
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: in a subtle manner if you don't want to get caught.

998
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: But I think that, and again, without knowing everything, there's

999
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: a difference. Right, you are mentally ill and you're inherently evil?

1000
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: Could you be both? Probably is this woman one over

1001
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: the other. I'm thinking maybe she's more mentally ill, because,

1002
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: like you said, it seems very obvious at this point

1003
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: that you're gonna get caught if you're doing it in

1004
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: this manner.

1005
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's just it's the same thing as like

1006
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, like maybe teachers that that end up

1007
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: being that harm children or priests that are children and stuff.

1008
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: It's like people go into these fields so they have

1009
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 2: access to what they're trying to do, So it could hapen.

1010
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: Nurses and doctors are people just the same as everyone else, right,

1011
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: So it's like you're just gonna get a bad one

1012
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: once in a while, right, I don't know. It's just

1013
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: so disturbing to think about, because you know, your average

1014
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: baby isn't in the nicku, right, so these are children

1015
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 2: that are specially put in there. Yeah, they're premature babies

1016
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: that have to be in there for because they need

1017
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 2: assistance to go out into the real world, whatever that

1018
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 2: particular thing is.

1019
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 3: But they are definitely more fragile.

1020
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: But the bones, you know, when a fetus is born,

1021
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: the bones are some of them are softer, especially the skull,

1022
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 2: because it needs to increase in size as the child

1023
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 2: grows into an adult. But the bones themselves are still

1024
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 2: very strong and they don't just easily fracture. I think

1025
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: one of the excuses they gave to one of the

1026
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: parents was they thought that the baby's leg broke when

1027
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: the baby was getting an injection. And I'm like, no, like,

1028
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 2: unless there was excessive force, you know what, I mean,

1029
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: like something wasn't right about that, so they wouldn't just

1030
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: break easily like that.

1031
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Also, she didn't look overly arrogant either, because sometimes these

1032
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: alleged killers are just arrogant and they think, oh, we'll

1033
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: never get caught, we can do whatever we want. Judging

1034
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: from her mugshots, she looks a little bit timid. She

1035
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like somebody who would be, you know, over confident.

1036
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, she she just looks very she looks

1037
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: very unassuming.

1038
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: Right, it's a totally total Yeah.

1039
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 2: Let's wrap up though with talking about the wheelwll drama.

1040
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: So we had closed Tuesday show discussing this United flight

1041
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: that landed in Maui and they discovered a dead body

1042
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 2: in the wheelwell. And now it has happened again, this

1043
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: time in Florida with two dead bodies. So the one

1044
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 2: in Maui was on Christmas Day, right, or Chris Christmas

1045
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 2: Eve or Christmas Day, So that was only a couple

1046
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, and now this one just happened.

1047
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't understand. I I mean, this is I was

1048
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: just on a Jet Blue flight for Laudernal and from Bla,

1049
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: and that's what I immediately thought of literally a week ago.

1050
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: But they believe these bodies.

1051
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,959
Speaker 2: Oh those bodies I was gonna say, these bodies were

1052
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 2: definitely on your plane.

1053
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 3: They were there for a long time.

1054
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean, so okay. They described that they were doing

1055
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: a routine check. Cool. Where was this routine check before?

1056
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: For two weeks? Three weeks? Why are we just discovering

1057
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: that there are decomposed bodies? I mean, I don't understand

1058
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: this at all. How do you get up there, Nicole?

1059
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: What would happen to your body when you were going,

1060
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 1: you know, across the country on multiple flights here, I'm

1061
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: my mind is just going crazy.

1062
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: So we just talked about this yesterday. The main cause

1063
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: of death with Stowways is number one. It's cold, so

1064
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 2: you could get hypothermia. I mean most of these people

1065
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: die anyway, Stowways all like most of them. There's a

1066
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: few documented cases of survivors. But humans can't survive in

1067
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 2: that really cold temperature like negative degrees sometimes negative fifty degrees.

1068
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 3: Right, they could literally freeze to death.

1069
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 2: In the air, right, Yes, in the air high altitude,

1070
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: So you can't live in a high altitude either if

1071
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 2: you're a human. Lack of oxygen, you could just pass

1072
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: out right away. And that's what usually happens, is they

1073
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: go up up, the altitude's too high and they just

1074
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 2: they pass out because of the lack of oxygen. And

1075
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 2: they're up in the wheel well and when the wheels

1076
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: come down to land the plane, they fall out onto

1077
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,760
Speaker 2: the ground and like splat on someone's driveway.

1078
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: Can't I can't.

1079
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 2: I have a case of it in the grosser room

1080
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: of a person that just fell on a suburban neighborhood,

1081
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 2: like splat on someone's.

1082
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: Driveway in front of their minivan. I mean, it fell

1083
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 3: from an AirPod.

1084
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's more nuanced than this, but

1085
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm just being silly, but just to not pay for

1086
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: your flight and to not be I mean, it just

1087
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: doesn't seem worth it. And I know again, I know

1088
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: that it's more than that, there's different circumstances, but like that,

1089
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: it does seem like a death sentence to anybody who

1090
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: whose brain thinks rationally, Yeah.

1091
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 2: How are they accessing the wheelwall? I mean, that's that's

1092
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: the scariest part of it, because if they could get

1093
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: in the wheel well, then they can get They're hiding

1094
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: in the bottom of a plane, like if they have

1095
00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 2: bomb strapped to them that that's that's a problem.

1096
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 3: Right, you know what I mean?

1097
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: Mm hm. Did you see that really dumb movie on

1098
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: Netflix with tarn Edgerton.

1099
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: I just watched it.

1100
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's that too. You're like, Okay, you're

1101
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 1: making this seem really easy, and then it's so simple

1102
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,919
Speaker 1: to just dismantle a bomb on a plane and jump

1103
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: in there. And I'm I'm thinking of this right now

1104
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: as we discuss this.

1105
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly what I was thinking about too, because

1106
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 2: I just watched that, I think on Sunday night or something.

1107
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 2: So mom for this movie on Netflix is basically like

1108
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: this terrorist group puts this like ear piece in a

1109
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: TSA agent's ear and they're like, you're gonna let this

1110
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 2: bag go through with the bomb or we're gonna kill

1111
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: your pregnant girlfriend and whatever. It's this whole drama. But

1112
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: then they show the guy, like a spoiler alert for

1113
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: anybody else at the end of the movie that they

1114
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: showed this man just like so easily disabling this bomb

1115
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: midflight mid air.

1116
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: Right, yep. It's like Jason Bateman too is the bad guy,

1117
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: and I actually love Jason Bateman, but he's doing the

1118
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 1: same sarcastic voice that he always uses, but he's this big,

1119
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 1: it's it's such a waste of two hours. I wouldn't recommend.

1120
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 3: It was hard to believe totally totally, but this is

1121
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 3: this is my point too.

1122
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 2: With the conditions being so cold, it's essentially like you're

1123
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: putting these bodies. I mean, they probably died the first

1124
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 2: time they went up in the air, right, just because

1125
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 2: of the altitude. Especially this plane went to freaking Salt

1126
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 2: Lake City, high altitude and freezing right.

1127
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 3: But the bodies were.

1128
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 2: Essentially refrigerated, slashed frozen up there. So for them to

1129
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 2: be decomposed, it had to just be a really long time.

1130
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: Like they can't decompose in those conditions, you know what

1131
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 2: I mean.

1132
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: So how long would you think, I would say, I

1133
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: mean you're saying two weeks, it could be even longer

1134
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: than that. Like, yeah, just if.

1135
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: They're I mean, if the planes landed in Florida and

1136
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: it's there for a couple of days, then okay, that

1137
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: could definitely cause advance decomposition for sure. But if you're

1138
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 2: saying like they were saying, it went from it originated

1139
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 2: in Jamaica, they did say they thought that they were

1140
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 2: from Jamaica.

1141
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,439
Speaker 3: But I'm like, no, because that was only a day ago.

1142
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: There's no way it went from.

1143
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: Jamaica, Jamaica to JFK to Salt Lake City to JFK

1144
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 2: to Fort Lauderdale in one twenty four hour day.

1145
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, or over the course of two days

1146
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 3: whatever it was, because.

1147
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: I think I just read on it was CNN or

1148
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: something that local law enforcement had speculated that they were

1149
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: there for two weeks. But I I don't know. I

1150
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 1: just I'm thinking to myself like this, it's it's scary,

1151
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: Like you said, how do they get up there? And

1152
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: how are they not discovered? If it's a routine check?

1153
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: Why are you not doing more routine checks? But I

1154
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: Am not going to pretend like I know the inner

1155
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 1: workings of you know, how airports and planes operate, because

1156
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: I really don't. But does that affect the way a

1157
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: plane flies too? I mean, I just I don't. I

1158
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: just don't understand it. I'm very alarmed.

1159
00:58:58,920 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I.

1160
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 2: Don't know how if the bodies are dead up there,

1161
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 2: and thus there's a pocket that they can go in

1162
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 2: where they wouldn't fall out because they can't hold on

1163
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: to anything obviously, unless they were jammed somewhere, because that's

1164
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 2: another thing. When the landing groes up and down, it

1165
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: crosses people to death too, because there's like all different

1166
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: sorts of causes of death. But when they say a

1167
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 2: body's badly decomposed, I don't know what that means, because really,

1168
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: if a person's decomposed in Philadelphia for one day in

1169
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 2: the summer, it looks pretty nasty. You can get green

1170
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: and bloated and smelly, but then completely decomposed or severely

1171
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 2: decomposed of me is like skeletonized remains. So there's such

1172
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 2: a variety. I mean, it could be months that a

1173
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 2: person was up there. I just don't really know. But

1174
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 2: was it what they're describing. Was it a routine inspection

1175
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 2: or did they start smelling something when they're working on

1176
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 2: a different part of the plane and that's what problems

1177
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 2: at the inspection.

1178
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: They are not telling us that. If that's the truth,

1179
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: I would be real. I mean, I mean, look, if

1180
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: somebody else commented on X they're like, what if there's

1181
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: a serial killer that works at the air and they

1182
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: stashed the bodies in a wheelwhow Oh, that's actually interesting.

1183
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: But I don't think so. But yeah, but I love

1184
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: the imagination there. Look, I think I think I would

1185
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 1: like to know more as to how this happened, and

1186
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: I would like to see some Jet Blue sales right

1187
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: now bookings have their bookings drop. Seriously, I want to

1188
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: know or more people going to Delta to American I'm curious.

1189
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 2: Is there a way you could check to see if

1190
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 2: it was the same plane you were on as well?

1191
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: Because you said JFK I flew out of LaGuardia, so okay.

1192
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: I felt very relieved hearing you say that just now,

1193
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: because I don't think I read the JFK part, So

1194
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: thank goodness. I think I think we're good.

1195
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: Well, Lauren, thank you so much for coming on our show.

1196
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell everyone where they could find you?

1197
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: Yes? Thank you so much for having me. This was

1198
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: so fun. You can find me on YouTube at pop

1199
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: Crime tv or my website which is Popcrime dot tv.

1200
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: And you can find me on social media at Lauren

1201
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: Emily Conlin on Instagram and Conlin Underscore Lauren on Twitter

1202
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: and Lauren Conlin for on TikTok.

1203
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 3: Wait, before what about this?

1204
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: I want to hear about this Fox Nation show that

1205
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 2: you did to tell because I think our listeners will

1206
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 2: really want to watch that too.

1207
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for bringing that up. Yeah, so

1208
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: right now, streaming on Fox Nation, I'm part of a

1209
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: special that it's about thirty three minutes. It's about the

1210
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: capture of Luigi Mangioni, and it's about Brian Thompson, the

1211
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: United Healthcare CEO. A lot of what's in that special

1212
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: is based on my reporting, because the minute I found

1213
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: out that he was killed, I raced down to the Hilton.

1214
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to just retrace all of his steps because

1215
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe a crime

1216
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: like this was caught on camera and that we didn't

1217
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: know more, and that we weren't able to catch him

1218
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: right away, and just knowing that you can't go anywhere

1219
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: in Manhattan, you can't go to a coffee shop, you

1220
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: can't go anywhere without being caught on film. I was

1221
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,919
Speaker 1: just fascinated and I wanted to know more. So, Yeah,

1222
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: watch the special. I would really love that, and it's

1223
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,919
Speaker 1: really interesting. It's really well well done. You do need

1224
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: a subscription to Fox Nation, so I don't I think

1225
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: it's like seven dollars a month. You can always do

1226
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: a trial and campful if anything.

1227
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, sometimes you could log like when I go

1228
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 2: to my Comcast or I don't know what it's Exfinity

1229
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 2: or whatever. Sometimes you could log in through your provider

1230
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 2: and have access to stuff for freeing a session or

1231
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: something for free.

1232
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: Yes, they actually said that, use your like when somebody

1233
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: was logging in, use your Comcast or Exfinity. You're absolutely right.

1234
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's awesome. I'm excited for you that you

1235
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 2: got to do that. And it is such an interesting case.

1236
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: So I can't wait for the trial of that either.

1237
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: Same here, and I think it was just important to

1238
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: show that Brian Thompson was a human being with children.

1239
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: And you know, we just we we shouldn't take the

1240
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: law into our own hands. It's not right. We'll live

1241
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: in a lawless country if we all start to do that.

1242
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, really, you're right.

1243
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1244
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 3: All right, Well, thanks for being here.

1245
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'll talk to you guys soon.

1246
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure, thank you for listening to mother nos death.

1247
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.

1248
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 2: I have a master's level education and specialize in anatomy

1249
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I

1250
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without

1251
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 2: the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,

1252
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 2: and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform

1253
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 2: people based on my experience working in pathology, so they

1254
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 2: can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.

1255
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: Always remember that science is changing every day, and the

1256
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 2: opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge

1257
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 2: of those subjects at the time of publication. If you

1258
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 2: are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or

1259
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 2: having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit

1260
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 2: an urgent care center, emergency room.

1261
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 3: Or hospital.

1262
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 2: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1263
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 2: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks