WEBVTT - Fan Favorite: How does Rick Steves Think You Should Travel? 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:02.240 I guess, well, well, what's that man go? So one 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:04.400 of the things I love about my parents is how 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.520 they travel like you know them and they're pretty unassuming, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.800 but they always end up in these wonderful little adventures. 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.840 Like when they were young and in Paris together, they 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.760 were at dinner at some place where there was also 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.800 this big band with strings, and the band started up, 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.160 but no one was moving to the dance floor, and 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.000 the bandleader was kind of just begging people to join in. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.320 And then my dad swept up my mom and they 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.360 danced on this empty floor, and of course people joined in. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:30.720 But when I got back to their table, the band 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.920 leader brought them this fancy bottle of really smooth brandy 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:35.599 and then joined them at the table, and they had 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.600 this wonderful night together and kind of became friends. Wow, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.040 that's such a sweet story. Yeah, but they kind of 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.000 embraced people wherever they go. So they went to Cancoon 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.440 once and instead of staying at a resort, they actually 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.200 traveled down the Yucatan to see these pyramids that only 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.400 archaeologist seemed to go to. And I mean, it's because 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.360 my mom's obsessed with ancient cultures. But while they were there, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.320 they made friends with these fishermen who invited them to 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.640 dinner at their house, so of course they went, of course, 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.199 And then they met their families, and they stayed late, 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.800 and and they were still sending postcards back and forth 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.280 from the US when they came back. I mean, those 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.560 are just like two of a thousand stories like that. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.160 And as kids, we meet all sorts of people from 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.360 their travels. But I mean, now that I have kids, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.520 I keep wondering, how do we make most of this 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.240 world into our travel, Like, how do we use it 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.320 to understand culture is better and broaden our perspectives while 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.039 you know, having so much fun doing it. And I 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:31.840 think we actually have the perfect person on to give 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.640 us a roadmap for that, the incredible Rick Steves. So 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:58.160 let's dig in a their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.720 Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and it's always I'm joined 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.240 by my good friend man guest Ticketer and sitting behind 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.640 the soundproof glass ironing his Safari suit, that's our Palin 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.760 producer Tristan McNeil. It looks so straight like I thought 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.040 he was done with it. But it's never good enough 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.919 for Tristan. He wants perfect Chris before he gets out 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.079 there for the lions. Now, Tristan is excited about our 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.480 guest today, and that's because our guest today has helped 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.280 so many Americans be smarter, more thoughtful travelers. He's the 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.960 host of a popular travel series on public television and 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.440 a weekly show on NPR, and he's here to talk 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.640 to us about the release of the updated edition of 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.120 his book, Travel as a Political Act. Rick Steves, Welcome 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.079 to Part Time Genius. Nice to be with you now, Rick, 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.320 I loved reading about you explaining that your most powerful 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.440 travel experience was actually your very first one. You went 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.320 to Norway with your parents. I think you're at the 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.480 age of fourteen. Can can you tell us a little 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.440 bit about that? Yeah, well, I had a lot of 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.440 beautiful experiences in that trip, and I much I think 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.400 when you're referring to his I was in the park 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.240 and also behind the palace, and remember my parents were 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.920 just trying to make me happy and lavishing me with 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.920 love and attention, and I was kind of a you know, 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.000 as a typical fortunyear old kid being dragged on a 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.080 family vacation. And I remember looking out in that park 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.600 and it was just speckled with families, and I saw 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.720 all these parents loving their kids as much as my 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.079 parents loved me, and it occurred to me, Wow, this 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.400 world is home to billions of equally precious children of God. 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:29.000 And that was sort of a jolt for me. It 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:33.160 got me out of my ego and ethnocentric kind of trap, 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.720 and it opened me up to just a passion for 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.320 better understanding our world. Later on that same trip, I 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.760 was and I was on the carpet at my Norwegian 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.640 relatives living room and bergen and we were watching uh 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.440 Neil Armstrong step on the moon, you know, one small 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.640 step for men and one giant lead for man kind. 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.400 But I heard that in Norwegian, and I saw the 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.600 enthusiasm of all my Norwegian relatives, like just really just 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.400 ecstatic about this, and it occurred to me it wasn't 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.440 just an American accomplishment. This was a human accomplishment, and 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.040 the whole planet was excited about this. And I thought 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.000 in the United States people were really into waving their flag, 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.840 but uh, from a planetary point of view, it was 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.600 just a huge, great thing for for all of us. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.599 And these were little moments that I had in my 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.839 childhood that contributed to my outlook. And I've spent my 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:29.560 career encouraging Americans to basically go beyond Orlando, to to 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.040 get out of their comfort zone and and broaden their 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.520 perspectives through travel. And I'm very excited about that whole 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.760 value of travel. Yeah, it's funny. My mom talks about 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.719 that same experience watching the moon landing in India, and 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.640 it is it was such a global phenomena. Since nine eleven, 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:48.800 you've been traveling and giving this talk travel as a 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.440 political act. He tell us what it means to travel 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.159 as a political act. Yeah, I've been teaching like mad 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.960 ever since I was a kid, my love of travel, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.640 and I had didn't have any grand plan, but I've 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.000 been at for decades now, and if I look back, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.279 it does have kind of a natural progression or evolution. 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.560 Back in the eighties, it was for me all about 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.760 budget travel, cheap tricks. Uh. I wrote a book called 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.680 Europe through the back Door, and I was teaching people, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.800 you know, how to catch the train and pack light 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.720 and get a hotel and a nice meal, and that's 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.600 all important stuff and that's the foundation. And I see 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.520 that as kind of the the lowest rung of what 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.320 you could think of as Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.320 if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of human needs. And then 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.279 in the nineties, I figured, well, we've cut the train 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:31.840 and we know how to pack light and stay safe 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.560 and healthy. Now let's teach about enjoying the history and 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.120 the art. For travelers history and they are at the culture. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.279 That's really why we travel. And I wrote a book 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.520 called Europe one oh one, and my my passion was 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.760 for teaching people to appreciate the culture and h Then 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.400 after nine eleven, I realized, you know, the pinnacle of 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.560 this Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs is inspiring and encouraging 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.920 and cooking Americans to get out of their comfort zone 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.440 to gain an empathy for the other nineties six percent 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.200 of humanity. And that's what I've been teaching a lot 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.120 since then. In fact, I'm going on a on a 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:04.760 road trip here in the next month while I'll be 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.720 in cities, given this talk about how we can travel 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.239 as a political act, and that really means again getting 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.440 out of her comfort zone, going south of the border, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.560 gaining an empathy for the other humanity, and coming home 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.159 with what I think is the most beautiful souvenir. That's 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.440 a broader perspective. And uh, you know, a mindset where 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.680 you're more inclined to build bridges and less inclined to 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.840 build walls. Are We have so many more questions for you, Rick, 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.880 but before we get to those, let's take a quick break. 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.400 Welcome back to Part Time Genius, and we're talking to 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.200 Rick Steves about the latest edition of his book, Travel 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.920 as a Political Act. I like that you had been 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.600 in the book to having had tickets to India three 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.640 years in a row, but pushing off the trip for 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.760 your worry about going to Egypt. And I also love 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.280 that line use that the people who would benefit the 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.600 most from travel off and stay home. But I'm curious, like, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.240 how do we push ourselves to embrace them comfortable and 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.120 sort of make the trips to places we might not 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.720 be as home with. Yeah, you know, I'm not at 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.120 all advocating going to dangerous places. There have been writers 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.000 that have had that as their publicity stunt, and they 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.160 go to war torn areas. I don't go to war 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.840 torn areas. I've never traveled anywhere where I think it's dangerous. 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.120 In fact, just this week I can filed out of 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.360 a plan to go to Egypt. I just don't think 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.200 it's quite right for me to go to Egypt and 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.000 encourage Americans to go there, because it's still struggling with 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:39.880 a lot of issues that are important, and I think 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.920 Americans might be uncomfortable there. But I've traveled a lot 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.000 lately in countries like Iran and Cuba and Palestine and 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:50.400 Russia and Denmark and the Netherlands and Portugal and Rocco, 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.440 and I just love, um, you know, having experiences and 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.640 taking notes and learning from my mistakes and and helping 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.240 other Americans go what I consider beyond our land. Don't 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.320 mention that earlier, And it really is kind of my 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.920 mission is to get Americans out of their comfort zone 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.200 and to realize the world is not a pyramid with 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.160 us on top and everybody else trying to figure it out. 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.280 There's smart people doing things different than us. This is 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.720 not America bashing. This is just acknowledging that there's not 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.520 the work ethic. You know, I was raised thinking we 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.000 have the work ethic. It's a work ethic. My Norwegian 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.640 relatives have a different work ethic. They don't have the 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.720 work ethic. And my Spanish. My Spanish mins have a 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.400 Spanish work ethic. It's not as hard as ours, but 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.880 it doesn't make it a better or worse thing. They 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.120 choose to work less and have more time with their families. 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.040 That is a work ethic. And we have a work ethic. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.719 And when we travel with a with a curiosity, in 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.000 an open mind, we challenge these norms that we think 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.360 are given and they're they're really not, and that lets 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.079 us make smarter decisions on how we want to run 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.560 our lives and how we want to weave the fabric 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.040 of our communities. Well, I I do love how how 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:58.960 human this book is, and that's one of the reasons 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.160 I like it so much, is you know, you're not 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.760 sort of just talking to people and ask them to 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.320 embrace everything you're saying. You're saying like your opinions will 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.960 differ from mine because we draw from different experiences. And 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.520 I really love the perspective you've you've filled this book with. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.600 But I did want to ask you about this story 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.280 of being in Turkey and observing a whirling dervish or Suphie. 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.640 You know, I thought the way you describe it was 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.720 so beautiful and and I'd love to hear a little 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.520 bit about that and and what it means to sort 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.600 of have your I think you call it cultural furniture rearranged. Yeah, 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:31.760 Oh well, as a tour guide, you can imagine. First 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.840 of all, you mentioned how I'm trying to be respectful 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.080 of people with different life stories and different viewpoints. And 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.319 I've learned that just because as a tour guide, you've 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.040 got the bully pulp, but you're holding the mic and 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.920 people are trapped on that bus, and it's really important 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.400 if you if you want to have a challenging, stimulating, 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.079 transformational experience, that you don't abuse the bully pulp it. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.520 So you know, we all have to respect that nobody's 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:53.880 got a luck on the truth here, and we're in 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.320 this together and we just have a chance to travel 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:01.359 around and learn from fascinating and sometimes scary sort of circumstances. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.640 Scary not meaning dangerous, but just scary because kind of freaky. 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.840 When I'm in Turkey, I love to meet a dervish 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.679 and introduce that dervish to my tour groups, and I 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.680 account in the book. I think it's even the leadoff 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.160 story and travel as a political act. How as a 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.640 tour guide, I found this dervish and I said, Hi, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.080 I'm an American tour guid. I've got twenty Americans at 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.720 the hotel and we'd love to see you whirl. You know, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.880 he's whirling dervishes. He said, I'm not a photo of 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.000 I'm a I'm a monk and I'm praying. But if 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.320 you want to watch me pray, I would welcome you 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.079 to watch me, but I need I need to be 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.000 able to explain to you what I'm doing. So I 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.280 said perfect where and when he said, on my rooftop 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.920 at sundown. So we gathered my group and we went 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.199 up to his rooftop and he walked. He came out 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.480 dressed up in his dervish outfit, you know, and he 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.440 welcome to us, and he said, I'm a I'm a dervish. 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.640 That's what you Americans would probably call him a monk. 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.680 And I follow My prophet is Nevellana. I think the 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.720 Christian equivalent would be St. Francis the Profit of Love. 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.720 Everybody can get their brains around his teachings and so on. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.360 And he said, five times a day, I spin myself 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.120 into a meditative trance. And he showed us how he 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.080 places one foot in the middle, and that symbolizes his 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.920 home and his family. And then the other foot goes 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.560 around and around on the outside, celebrating the diversity in 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.920 God's great creation. And he spins with that motion, and 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.360 one hand goes up to accept the love of his creator, 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.080 and the other hand goes down like the spout on 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.280 a tea kettle, to shower God's love on his beautiful creation. 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.880 And the dervish spins himself into a meditative trance and 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.120 loses himself and that beautiful idea that he can be 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.000 a conduit of God's love, and standing there as a 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.439 tour guide, the travel teacher with twenty Americans who had 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.960 no idea what a dervish was except this comic cruise 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.880 ship entertainment, you know, and watching him lose himself in 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.760 that beautiful idea and his head tilted over and his 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.040 robe billowed out. And then for me to hand over 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.120 to the left and see the faces of my tourists, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.280 just wonder struck, and to know that they were being 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.120 changed right now and they were going to go home 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.320 with that beautiful souvenir. And that's an empathy for other people, 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.960 a broader perspective. And then when they implement that broader 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.840 perspective back here in this beautiful country of ours. They're 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.120 making travel a political act. And uh, that's kind of 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.320 what I think is the greatest accomplishment for a tour 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.439 guide and a travel writer like me is to help 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.839 American travelers learned about the beauty and the diversity on 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.880 this planet and go home and not be afraid of it, 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.600 but to celebrate it. It's hard to imagine a more 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.920 powerful experience than to have set there and have you know, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.280 a dervish explain what this was all about. That that's 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.839 that's such a wonderful story. Rick, I was hoping you 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.800 could tell us a little about your experience of being 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.599 a Lutheran and Namibia, you know, like that the priorities 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.520 there can be different, and reading the Bible through different 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.120 eyes there can Can you talk a little bit about that. Yeah, 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.719 I'm a Lutheran and I think it's fun to think 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.880 that there's more Lutherans in the Maybe than they're in 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.240 the United States. And I've been on trips with the 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.360 Lutheran Church help film mission workings on in Papa, New 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.600 Guinea and this and that, and uh, I think the 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.400 important thing for Ethno cent to Christians to understand is 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:14.000 there's you know, there's different ways that cultures embrace different faiths. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.800 And uh, in my travels, I've I've really enjoyed trying 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.160 to be open minded about that and and learning from 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.680 other people. And uh, it's just Lutheran's have this funny 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.480 notion that Lutherans are all Germans or Scandinavians. It's another 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.439 example of b s no centristity, and we don't all 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.840 have jello and green hymnals and this sort of thing. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:36.200 And casse roles as the garrison keeler jokes would be uh. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.440 And uh that always is a powerful opportunity. And in 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:44.720 our travels we can, uh, we we can all you know, 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.080 endeavor to better understand God without being judgmental of each 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.800 each other. I'll never forget as a Christian tour guide 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.640 with a group in Turkey dancing in the living room 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.400 of a mayor of a little village that had never 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.120 met an American tour group before. And and I was 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.160 the big shot because as I was the tour guy, 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:02.800 and he was the big step because he was the mayor. 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:04.800 So he came over to me and we're all snapping 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.360 our fingers and shaking our shoulders and dancing, and he 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.680 took me over to the most sacred place in his house. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.520 It was the his Koran bag, where he hangs his 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.200 Koran on the wall. And he said, in my Koran bag, 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.440 I keep a copy of the Bible, the Torah and 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.960 the Koran, because I believe as Christians, Jews and Muslims 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.320 are all children of the same God, people of the book. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.120 And I just thought, Wow, I wish more Americans could 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.920 could meet this Muslim and to realize that there's just 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.680 so much there's so much joy and the challenges for 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.320 us to understand each other and respect each other and 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.280 know how we can live together, you know, as neighbors, 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.400 and sounds almost tried. But that's sort of the fundamental 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.560 thing about travel. We humanize this planet and we come 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.080 home not fearful, but we come home celebrating the diversity 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.800 and the joy and the love that just abounds on 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.640 this planet. And that's one thing I come home with 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.760 from wherever I travel, is that just the love of 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.160 a father or a mother for their child. It's perfectly 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.880 the same here or Guatemala or Sri Lanka or Papua 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.240 New Guinea or Norway or Morocco. I think it's really 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.400 interesting in your guides to places like Amsterdam, you know, 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.320 you choose to include, you know, sections on prostitution and marijuana, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.640 both of which are legal there. And I think it's 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.000 very interesting philosophy that you have around this. Can you 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.920 talk about that philosophy on uncovering topics like these. I 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:34.920 don't think everybody needs to be into the same things, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.080 but when you travel, you get expose two issues. Whether 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.080 it's the importance of water in a thirsty community it 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.560 doesn't where women have to abandon their kids and walk 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.440 for water every day, Whether it's the importance of separation 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.880 of mosque and state like we have separation of church 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.240 and state, or whether it's the importance in the case 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.320 of the Netherlands compared to the United States, of not 0:15:55.440 --> 0:16:00.520 legislating morality. Legislating morality. Uh, that's a very important issue, 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.360 and that's you know, we might learn about that in school, 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.760 but to actually go to a place like the Netherlands 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:07.840 and and talk with people who say, you know, a 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.120 society has to make a choice tolerate alternative lifestyles or 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.520 build more prisons, and New Americans lock up ten times 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.200 as many people per capita as we do here in 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.160 the Netherlands. Either you are inherently more criminal people. Are 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.520 there something screw about your loss? Now, you can't dismiss 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.920 that we lock up ten times as many people here 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.960 in the United States as they do in Europe, most 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.000 of Europe. And uh uh, and it is because we're 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:34.200 really quick to legislate morality and uh and we incarceerate 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.440 people to solve our problems. Where it is in Europe, 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.280 they would rather have a system of pragmatic harm reduction 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.200 when it comes to prostitution. Nobody's gonna say prostitution is 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.280 a good thing, But I think that you can look 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.320 at this challenge in a pragmatic harm reduction kind of 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.760 way and realize that it's going to happen one way 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.640 or another. And uh, why don't we legalize it and 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.480 regulate it and let prostitutes have their union and required 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:02.320 that they get a medical checkup before they get their 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.359 license and they're not passing diseases, and organize it in 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.159 a way so when they have a dangerous client and 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.280 they push their emergency button, they're not rescued by a pimp, 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.960 but they're rescued by the local policeman. It doesn't work 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.520 out quite that nice, but that's the that's the ideal, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.320 and that's what they're striving for. In the Netherlands, it's 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.480 quite impressive. The same thing with the drug problems in 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.040 the United States have got this opioid crisis, well, they've 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.560 had that crisis in Europe before. In fact, the two 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.760 countries that have the most progressive laws about their drugs 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.720 hard and soft are the Netherlands and Portugal. And both 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.200 of those countries were responding a decade or two ago 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.800 to an opioid crisis and they decided to take the 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.719 marijuana out of the equation and gain credibility for their 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.560 law enforcement and and UH. In those countries, the word 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:49.159 for addicted is enslaved. They don't see these people as 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.160 criminals that need handcuffs and lawyers and cops. They are 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.720 sick people that are enslaved to hard drug addiction. They 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.680 need compassion and counseling and nurses and UH. In those countries, 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.160 they don't have the overdose depths that we have, they 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.920 don't have the incarceration rates that we have, and they 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.400 don't consume more drugs than we do. They just deal 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.280 with it. In a smart, pragmatic, and compassionate way. So 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.080 these are examples of ways that we can learn from 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.680 our travels and make our country a better place. Yeah, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.760 it's interesting to observe those differences. Now, one area where 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.199 we might all have certain things in common that I 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.640 thought was very interesting is you know you mentioned being 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.040 impressed by the level of pride and perhaps even surprised 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.320 at times that the national pride from place to place. Well, 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.960 these are the fun things that I've been able to 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.720 put into travel as a political act. And and when 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.800 my publisher was telling me we needed to reprint the 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.280 second edition, I said, hold off, because there's been so 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.360 many changes. I want to rework it for the new 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.080 third edition. And as far as pride goes, we're dealing 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.880 with this whole America first thing, and tribalism and nativism 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.080 and Erexit and and air togon, and there's all these 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.679 changes in these turmoil and the political landscape, both in 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.640 Europe and in the United States, and we can learn 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.199 from that. I mean, we're looking at failed countries in 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.160 the Mediterranean basin that when they fall apart, they've got 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.639 millions of refugees heading for Europe. We'll think of the 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.520 failed nations. You've got Libya, you've got Syria, you've got Iraq. 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:21.280 Those political borders were drawn by European colonial interests a 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.960 century ago. And now we have an idea that, oh, 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.240 they've got to be democratic. So we threw out their 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.040 strong arm leaders. There Saddam Hussein's, their Kadafis and their Assads, 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.840 and and what you get is a country that falls apart. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.399 It's a fake country. It can't be held together in 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.439 a democratic way. We created the fake countries, and then 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.040 a century later we said you gotta have democratic rulers. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.720 And the consequences, they fall apart, and then they all 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.239 these desperate people knock on the door of Europe. Uh. 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.879 This is the consequences of europe and American colonial interests 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:56.320 not sensitive to local ethnic realities. There is this pride 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.920 in these countries, but it is ethnic pride, and there 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.159 Pean Union has has really respected ethnic pride. As a 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.800 matter of fact, the European Union does not fund political 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.800 units that were created after wars when line lines were drawn, 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:16.000 like today's Austria. The European Union funds ethnic realities. I've 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.040 got a friend who is an archaeologist who renovates castles 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.720 in the Tyrol, and if he wants money, he doesn't 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:23.920