Speaker 1: I guess, well, well, what's that man go? So one
Speaker 1: of the things I love about my parents is how
Speaker 1: they travel like you know them and they're pretty unassuming,
Speaker 1: but they always end up in these wonderful little adventures.
Speaker 1: Like when they were young and in Paris together, they
Speaker 1: were at dinner at some place where there was also
Speaker 1: this big band with strings, and the band started up,
Speaker 1: but no one was moving to the dance floor, and
Speaker 1: the bandleader was kind of just begging people to join in.
Speaker 1: And then my dad swept up my mom and they
Speaker 1: danced on this empty floor, and of course people joined in.
Speaker 1: But when I got back to their table, the band
Speaker 1: leader brought them this fancy bottle of really smooth brandy
Speaker 1: and then joined them at the table, and they had
Speaker 1: this wonderful night together and kind of became friends. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's such a sweet story. Yeah, but they kind of
Speaker 1: embraced people wherever they go. So they went to Cancoon
Speaker 1: once and instead of staying at a resort, they actually
Speaker 1: traveled down the Yucatan to see these pyramids that only
Speaker 1: archaeologist seemed to go to. And I mean, it's because
Speaker 1: my mom's obsessed with ancient cultures. But while they were there,
Speaker 1: they made friends with these fishermen who invited them to
Speaker 1: dinner at their house, so of course they went, of course,
Speaker 1: And then they met their families, and they stayed late,
Speaker 1: and and they were still sending postcards back and forth
Speaker 1: from the US when they came back. I mean, those
Speaker 1: are just like two of a thousand stories like that.
Speaker 1: And as kids, we meet all sorts of people from
Speaker 1: their travels. But I mean, now that I have kids,
Speaker 1: I keep wondering, how do we make most of this
Speaker 1: world into our travel, Like, how do we use it
Speaker 1: to understand culture is better and broaden our perspectives while
Speaker 1: you know, having so much fun doing it. And I
Speaker 1: think we actually have the perfect person on to give
Speaker 1: us a roadmap for that, the incredible Rick Steves. So
Speaker 1: let's dig in a their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and it's always I'm joined
Speaker 1: by my good friend man guest Ticketer and sitting behind
Speaker 1: the soundproof glass ironing his Safari suit, that's our Palin
Speaker 1: producer Tristan McNeil. It looks so straight like I thought
Speaker 1: he was done with it. But it's never good enough
Speaker 1: for Tristan. He wants perfect Chris before he gets out
Speaker 1: there for the lions. Now, Tristan is excited about our
Speaker 1: guest today, and that's because our guest today has helped
Speaker 1: so many Americans be smarter, more thoughtful travelers. He's the
Speaker 1: host of a popular travel series on public television and
Speaker 1: a weekly show on NPR, and he's here to talk
Speaker 1: to us about the release of the updated edition of
Speaker 1: his book, Travel as a Political Act. Rick Steves, Welcome
Speaker 1: to Part Time Genius. Nice to be with you now, Rick,
Speaker 1: I loved reading about you explaining that your most powerful
Speaker 1: travel experience was actually your very first one. You went
Speaker 1: to Norway with your parents. I think you're at the
Speaker 1: age of fourteen. Can can you tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about that? Yeah, well, I had a lot of
Speaker 1: beautiful experiences in that trip, and I much I think
Speaker 1: when you're referring to his I was in the park
Speaker 1: and also behind the palace, and remember my parents were
Speaker 1: just trying to make me happy and lavishing me with
Speaker 1: love and attention, and I was kind of a you know,
Speaker 1: as a typical fortunyear old kid being dragged on a
Speaker 1: family vacation. And I remember looking out in that park
Speaker 1: and it was just speckled with families, and I saw
Speaker 1: all these parents loving their kids as much as my
Speaker 1: parents loved me, and it occurred to me, Wow, this
Speaker 1: world is home to billions of equally precious children of God.
Speaker 1: And that was sort of a jolt for me. It
Speaker 1: got me out of my ego and ethnocentric kind of trap,
Speaker 1: and it opened me up to just a passion for
Speaker 1: better understanding our world. Later on that same trip, I
Speaker 1: was and I was on the carpet at my Norwegian
Speaker 1: relatives living room and bergen and we were watching uh
Speaker 1: Neil Armstrong step on the moon, you know, one small
Speaker 1: step for men and one giant lead for man kind.
Speaker 1: But I heard that in Norwegian, and I saw the
Speaker 1: enthusiasm of all my Norwegian relatives, like just really just
Speaker 1: ecstatic about this, and it occurred to me it wasn't
Speaker 1: just an American accomplishment. This was a human accomplishment, and
Speaker 1: the whole planet was excited about this. And I thought
Speaker 1: in the United States people were really into waving their flag,
Speaker 1: but uh, from a planetary point of view, it was
Speaker 1: just a huge, great thing for for all of us.
Speaker 1: And these were little moments that I had in my
Speaker 1: childhood that contributed to my outlook. And I've spent my
Speaker 1: career encouraging Americans to basically go beyond Orlando, to to
Speaker 1: get out of their comfort zone and and broaden their
Speaker 1: perspectives through travel. And I'm very excited about that whole
Speaker 1: value of travel. Yeah, it's funny. My mom talks about
Speaker 1: that same experience watching the moon landing in India, and
Speaker 1: it is it was such a global phenomena. Since nine eleven,
Speaker 1: you've been traveling and giving this talk travel as a
Speaker 1: political act. He tell us what it means to travel
Speaker 1: as a political act. Yeah, I've been teaching like mad
Speaker 1: ever since I was a kid, my love of travel,
Speaker 1: and I had didn't have any grand plan, but I've
Speaker 1: been at for decades now, and if I look back,
Speaker 1: it does have kind of a natural progression or evolution.
Speaker 1: Back in the eighties, it was for me all about
Speaker 1: budget travel, cheap tricks. Uh. I wrote a book called
Speaker 1: Europe through the back Door, and I was teaching people,
Speaker 1: you know, how to catch the train and pack light
Speaker 1: and get a hotel and a nice meal, and that's
Speaker 1: all important stuff and that's the foundation. And I see
Speaker 1: that as kind of the the lowest rung of what
Speaker 1: you could think of as Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs
Speaker 1: if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of human needs. And then
Speaker 1: in the nineties, I figured, well, we've cut the train
Speaker 1: and we know how to pack light and stay safe
Speaker 1: and healthy. Now let's teach about enjoying the history and
Speaker 1: the art. For travelers history and they are at the culture.
Speaker 1: That's really why we travel. And I wrote a book
Speaker 1: called Europe one oh one, and my my passion was
Speaker 1: for teaching people to appreciate the culture and h Then
Speaker 1: after nine eleven, I realized, you know, the pinnacle of
Speaker 1: this Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs is inspiring and encouraging
Speaker 1: and cooking Americans to get out of their comfort zone
Speaker 1: to gain an empathy for the other nineties six percent
Speaker 1: of humanity. And that's what I've been teaching a lot
Speaker 1: since then. In fact, I'm going on a on a
Speaker 1: road trip here in the next month while I'll be
Speaker 1: in cities, given this talk about how we can travel
Speaker 1: as a political act, and that really means again getting
Speaker 1: out of her comfort zone, going south of the border,
Speaker 1: gaining an empathy for the other humanity, and coming home
Speaker 1: with what I think is the most beautiful souvenir. That's
Speaker 1: a broader perspective. And uh, you know, a mindset where
Speaker 1: you're more inclined to build bridges and less inclined to
Speaker 1: build walls. Are We have so many more questions for you, Rick,
Speaker 1: but before we get to those, let's take a quick break.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, and we're talking to
Speaker 1: Rick Steves about the latest edition of his book, Travel
Speaker 1: as a Political Act. I like that you had been
Speaker 1: in the book to having had tickets to India three
Speaker 1: years in a row, but pushing off the trip for
Speaker 1: your worry about going to Egypt. And I also love
Speaker 1: that line use that the people who would benefit the
Speaker 1: most from travel off and stay home. But I'm curious, like,
Speaker 1: how do we push ourselves to embrace them comfortable and
Speaker 1: sort of make the trips to places we might not
Speaker 1: be as home with. Yeah, you know, I'm not at
Speaker 1: all advocating going to dangerous places. There have been writers
Speaker 1: that have had that as their publicity stunt, and they
Speaker 1: go to war torn areas. I don't go to war
Speaker 1: torn areas. I've never traveled anywhere where I think it's dangerous.
Speaker 1: In fact, just this week I can filed out of
Speaker 1: a plan to go to Egypt. I just don't think
Speaker 1: it's quite right for me to go to Egypt and
Speaker 1: encourage Americans to go there, because it's still struggling with
Speaker 1: a lot of issues that are important, and I think
Speaker 1: Americans might be uncomfortable there. But I've traveled a lot
Speaker 1: lately in countries like Iran and Cuba and Palestine and
Speaker 1: Russia and Denmark and the Netherlands and Portugal and Rocco,
Speaker 1: and I just love, um, you know, having experiences and
Speaker 1: taking notes and learning from my mistakes and and helping
Speaker 1: other Americans go what I consider beyond our land. Don't
Speaker 1: mention that earlier, And it really is kind of my
Speaker 1: mission is to get Americans out of their comfort zone
Speaker 1: and to realize the world is not a pyramid with
Speaker 1: us on top and everybody else trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: There's smart people doing things different than us. This is
Speaker 1: not America bashing. This is just acknowledging that there's not
Speaker 1: the work ethic. You know, I was raised thinking we
Speaker 1: have the work ethic. It's a work ethic. My Norwegian
Speaker 1: relatives have a different work ethic. They don't have the
Speaker 1: work ethic. And my Spanish. My Spanish mins have a
Speaker 1: Spanish work ethic. It's not as hard as ours, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't make it a better or worse thing. They
Speaker 1: choose to work less and have more time with their families.
Speaker 1: That is a work ethic. And we have a work ethic.
Speaker 1: And when we travel with a with a curiosity, in
Speaker 1: an open mind, we challenge these norms that we think
Speaker 1: are given and they're they're really not, and that lets
Speaker 1: us make smarter decisions on how we want to run
Speaker 1: our lives and how we want to weave the fabric
Speaker 1: of our communities. Well, I I do love how how
Speaker 1: human this book is, and that's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I like it so much, is you know, you're not
Speaker 1: sort of just talking to people and ask them to
Speaker 1: embrace everything you're saying. You're saying like your opinions will
Speaker 1: differ from mine because we draw from different experiences. And
Speaker 1: I really love the perspective you've you've filled this book with.
Speaker 1: But I did want to ask you about this story
Speaker 1: of being in Turkey and observing a whirling dervish or Suphie.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought the way you describe it was
Speaker 1: so beautiful and and I'd love to hear a little
Speaker 1: bit about that and and what it means to sort
Speaker 1: of have your I think you call it cultural furniture rearranged. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh well, as a tour guide, you can imagine. First
Speaker 1: of all, you mentioned how I'm trying to be respectful
Speaker 1: of people with different life stories and different viewpoints. And
Speaker 1: I've learned that just because as a tour guide, you've
Speaker 1: got the bully pulp, but you're holding the mic and
Speaker 1: people are trapped on that bus, and it's really important
Speaker 1: if you if you want to have a challenging, stimulating,
Speaker 1: transformational experience, that you don't abuse the bully pulp it.
Speaker 1: So you know, we all have to respect that nobody's
Speaker 1: got a luck on the truth here, and we're in
Speaker 1: this together and we just have a chance to travel
Speaker 1: around and learn from fascinating and sometimes scary sort of circumstances.
Speaker 1: Scary not meaning dangerous, but just scary because kind of freaky.
Speaker 1: When I'm in Turkey, I love to meet a dervish
Speaker 1: and introduce that dervish to my tour groups, and I
Speaker 1: account in the book. I think it's even the leadoff
Speaker 1: story and travel as a political act. How as a
Speaker 1: tour guide, I found this dervish and I said, Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm an American tour guid. I've got twenty Americans at
Speaker 1: the hotel and we'd love to see you whirl. You know,
Speaker 1: he's whirling dervishes. He said, I'm not a photo of
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a monk and I'm praying. But if
Speaker 1: you want to watch me pray, I would welcome you
Speaker 1: to watch me, but I need I need to be
Speaker 1: able to explain to you what I'm doing. So I
Speaker 1: said perfect where and when he said, on my rooftop
Speaker 1: at sundown. So we gathered my group and we went
Speaker 1: up to his rooftop and he walked. He came out
Speaker 1: dressed up in his dervish outfit, you know, and he
Speaker 1: welcome to us, and he said, I'm a I'm a dervish.
Speaker 1: That's what you Americans would probably call him a monk.
Speaker 1: And I follow My prophet is Nevellana. I think the
Speaker 1: Christian equivalent would be St. Francis the Profit of Love.
Speaker 1: Everybody can get their brains around his teachings and so on.
Speaker 1: And he said, five times a day, I spin myself
Speaker 1: into a meditative trance. And he showed us how he
Speaker 1: places one foot in the middle, and that symbolizes his
Speaker 1: home and his family. And then the other foot goes
Speaker 1: around and around on the outside, celebrating the diversity in
Speaker 1: God's great creation. And he spins with that motion, and
Speaker 1: one hand goes up to accept the love of his creator,
Speaker 1: and the other hand goes down like the spout on
Speaker 1: a tea kettle, to shower God's love on his beautiful creation.
Speaker 1: And the dervish spins himself into a meditative trance and
Speaker 1: loses himself and that beautiful idea that he can be
Speaker 1: a conduit of God's love, and standing there as a
Speaker 1: tour guide, the travel teacher with twenty Americans who had
Speaker 1: no idea what a dervish was except this comic cruise
Speaker 1: ship entertainment, you know, and watching him lose himself in
Speaker 1: that beautiful idea and his head tilted over and his
Speaker 1: robe billowed out. And then for me to hand over
Speaker 1: to the left and see the faces of my tourists,
Speaker 1: just wonder struck, and to know that they were being
Speaker 1: changed right now and they were going to go home
Speaker 1: with that beautiful souvenir. And that's an empathy for other people,
Speaker 1: a broader perspective. And then when they implement that broader
Speaker 1: perspective back here in this beautiful country of ours. They're
Speaker 1: making travel a political act. And uh, that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I think is the greatest accomplishment for a tour
Speaker 1: guide and a travel writer like me is to help
Speaker 1: American travelers learned about the beauty and the diversity on
Speaker 1: this planet and go home and not be afraid of it,
Speaker 1: but to celebrate it. It's hard to imagine a more
Speaker 1: powerful experience than to have set there and have you know,
Speaker 1: a dervish explain what this was all about. That that's
Speaker 1: that's such a wonderful story. Rick, I was hoping you
Speaker 1: could tell us a little about your experience of being
Speaker 1: a Lutheran and Namibia, you know, like that the priorities
Speaker 1: there can be different, and reading the Bible through different
Speaker 1: eyes there can Can you talk a little bit about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a Lutheran and I think it's fun to think
Speaker 1: that there's more Lutherans in the Maybe than they're in
Speaker 1: the United States. And I've been on trips with the
Speaker 1: Lutheran Church help film mission workings on in Papa, New
Speaker 1: Guinea and this and that, and uh, I think the
Speaker 1: important thing for Ethno cent to Christians to understand is
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's different ways that cultures embrace different faiths.
Speaker 1: And uh, in my travels, I've I've really enjoyed trying
Speaker 1: to be open minded about that and and learning from
Speaker 1: other people. And uh, it's just Lutheran's have this funny
Speaker 1: notion that Lutherans are all Germans or Scandinavians. It's another
Speaker 1: example of b s no centristity, and we don't all
Speaker 1: have jello and green hymnals and this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And casse roles as the garrison keeler jokes would be uh.
Speaker 1: And uh that always is a powerful opportunity. And in
Speaker 1: our travels we can, uh, we we can all you know,
Speaker 1: endeavor to better understand God without being judgmental of each
Speaker 1: each other. I'll never forget as a Christian tour guide
Speaker 1: with a group in Turkey dancing in the living room
Speaker 1: of a mayor of a little village that had never
Speaker 1: met an American tour group before. And and I was
Speaker 1: the big shot because as I was the tour guy,
Speaker 1: and he was the big step because he was the mayor.
Speaker 1: So he came over to me and we're all snapping
Speaker 1: our fingers and shaking our shoulders and dancing, and he
Speaker 1: took me over to the most sacred place in his house.
Speaker 1: It was the his Koran bag, where he hangs his
Speaker 1: Koran on the wall. And he said, in my Koran bag,
Speaker 1: I keep a copy of the Bible, the Torah and
Speaker 1: the Koran, because I believe as Christians, Jews and Muslims
Speaker 1: are all children of the same God, people of the book.
Speaker 1: And I just thought, Wow, I wish more Americans could
Speaker 1: could meet this Muslim and to realize that there's just
Speaker 1: so much there's so much joy and the challenges for
Speaker 1: us to understand each other and respect each other and
Speaker 1: know how we can live together, you know, as neighbors,
Speaker 1: and sounds almost tried. But that's sort of the fundamental
Speaker 1: thing about travel. We humanize this planet and we come
Speaker 1: home not fearful, but we come home celebrating the diversity
Speaker 1: and the joy and the love that just abounds on
Speaker 1: this planet. And that's one thing I come home with
Speaker 1: from wherever I travel, is that just the love of
Speaker 1: a father or a mother for their child. It's perfectly
Speaker 1: the same here or Guatemala or Sri Lanka or Papua
Speaker 1: New Guinea or Norway or Morocco. I think it's really
Speaker 1: interesting in your guides to places like Amsterdam, you know,
Speaker 1: you choose to include, you know, sections on prostitution and marijuana,
Speaker 1: both of which are legal there. And I think it's
Speaker 1: very interesting philosophy that you have around this. Can you
Speaker 1: talk about that philosophy on uncovering topics like these. I
Speaker 1: don't think everybody needs to be into the same things,
Speaker 1: but when you travel, you get expose two issues. Whether
Speaker 1: it's the importance of water in a thirsty community it
Speaker 1: doesn't where women have to abandon their kids and walk
Speaker 1: for water every day, Whether it's the importance of separation
Speaker 1: of mosque and state like we have separation of church
Speaker 1: and state, or whether it's the importance in the case
Speaker 1: of the Netherlands compared to the United States, of not
Speaker 1: legislating morality. Legislating morality. Uh, that's a very important issue,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, we might learn about that in school,
Speaker 1: but to actually go to a place like the Netherlands
Speaker 1: and and talk with people who say, you know, a
Speaker 1: society has to make a choice tolerate alternative lifestyles or
Speaker 1: build more prisons, and New Americans lock up ten times
Speaker 1: as many people per capita as we do here in
Speaker 1: the Netherlands. Either you are inherently more criminal people. Are
Speaker 1: there something screw about your loss? Now, you can't dismiss
Speaker 1: that we lock up ten times as many people here
Speaker 1: in the United States as they do in Europe, most
Speaker 1: of Europe. And uh uh, and it is because we're
Speaker 1: really quick to legislate morality and uh and we incarceerate
Speaker 1: people to solve our problems. Where it is in Europe,
Speaker 1: they would rather have a system of pragmatic harm reduction
Speaker 1: when it comes to prostitution. Nobody's gonna say prostitution is
Speaker 1: a good thing, But I think that you can look
Speaker 1: at this challenge in a pragmatic harm reduction kind of
Speaker 1: way and realize that it's going to happen one way
Speaker 1: or another. And uh, why don't we legalize it and
Speaker 1: regulate it and let prostitutes have their union and required
Speaker 1: that they get a medical checkup before they get their
Speaker 1: license and they're not passing diseases, and organize it in
Speaker 1: a way so when they have a dangerous client and
Speaker 1: they push their emergency button, they're not rescued by a pimp,
Speaker 1: but they're rescued by the local policeman. It doesn't work
Speaker 1: out quite that nice, but that's the that's the ideal,
Speaker 1: and that's what they're striving for. In the Netherlands, it's
Speaker 1: quite impressive. The same thing with the drug problems in
Speaker 1: the United States have got this opioid crisis, well, they've
Speaker 1: had that crisis in Europe before. In fact, the two
Speaker 1: countries that have the most progressive laws about their drugs
Speaker 1: hard and soft are the Netherlands and Portugal. And both
Speaker 1: of those countries were responding a decade or two ago
Speaker 1: to an opioid crisis and they decided to take the
Speaker 1: marijuana out of the equation and gain credibility for their
Speaker 1: law enforcement and and UH. In those countries, the word
Speaker 1: for addicted is enslaved. They don't see these people as
Speaker 1: criminals that need handcuffs and lawyers and cops. They are
Speaker 1: sick people that are enslaved to hard drug addiction. They
Speaker 1: need compassion and counseling and nurses and UH. In those countries,
Speaker 1: they don't have the overdose depths that we have, they
Speaker 1: don't have the incarceration rates that we have, and they
Speaker 1: don't consume more drugs than we do. They just deal
Speaker 1: with it. In a smart, pragmatic, and compassionate way. So
Speaker 1: these are examples of ways that we can learn from
Speaker 1: our travels and make our country a better place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting to observe those differences. Now, one area where
Speaker 1: we might all have certain things in common that I
Speaker 1: thought was very interesting is you know you mentioned being
Speaker 1: impressed by the level of pride and perhaps even surprised
Speaker 1: at times that the national pride from place to place. Well,
Speaker 1: these are the fun things that I've been able to
Speaker 1: put into travel as a political act. And and when
Speaker 1: my publisher was telling me we needed to reprint the
Speaker 1: second edition, I said, hold off, because there's been so
Speaker 1: many changes. I want to rework it for the new
Speaker 1: third edition. And as far as pride goes, we're dealing
Speaker 1: with this whole America first thing, and tribalism and nativism
Speaker 1: and Erexit and and air togon, and there's all these
Speaker 1: changes in these turmoil and the political landscape, both in
Speaker 1: Europe and in the United States, and we can learn
Speaker 1: from that. I mean, we're looking at failed countries in
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean basin that when they fall apart, they've got
Speaker 1: millions of refugees heading for Europe. We'll think of the
Speaker 1: failed nations. You've got Libya, you've got Syria, you've got Iraq.
Speaker 1: Those political borders were drawn by European colonial interests a
Speaker 1: century ago. And now we have an idea that, oh,
Speaker 1: they've got to be democratic. So we threw out their
Speaker 1: strong arm leaders. There Saddam Hussein's, their Kadafis and their Assads,
Speaker 1: and and what you get is a country that falls apart.
Speaker 1: It's a fake country. It can't be held together in
Speaker 1: a democratic way. We created the fake countries, and then
Speaker 1: a century later we said you gotta have democratic rulers.
Speaker 1: And the consequences, they fall apart, and then they all
Speaker 1: these desperate people knock on the door of Europe. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is the consequences of europe and American colonial interests
Speaker 1: not sensitive to local ethnic realities. There is this pride
Speaker 1: in these countries, but it is ethnic pride, and there
Speaker 1: Pean Union has has really respected ethnic pride. As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, the European Union does not fund political
Speaker 1: units that were created after wars when line lines were drawn,
Speaker 1: like today's Austria. The European Union funds ethnic realities. I've
Speaker 1: got a friend who is an archaeologist who renovates castles
Speaker 1: in the Tyrol, and if he wants money, he doesn't
Speaker 1: go to Vienna. You'll go home with nothing. He goes
Speaker 1: to Brussels. And when he goes to Brussels, he doesn't
Speaker 1: say I got something great for Austria. He says I's
Speaker 1: got a cool idea for the Tyrol, and Brussels gives
Speaker 1: him money because Brussels understands it is the ethnic regions
Speaker 1: that really are the truth. And today the little language
Speaker 1: is nearper more widely spoken uh now than they were
Speaker 1: a generation ago, because Europe is embracing these sort of
Speaker 1: ethnic realities. I just love this idea that there's that
Speaker 1: national pride that does not die away, and when it's respected,
Speaker 1: I think things go better. And this is an example
Speaker 1: of how when you travel you home with just a better,
Speaker 1: more human, more real understanding of the dynamics that are
Speaker 1: shaping the headlines that we're going to be reading throughout
Speaker 1: the rest of our life. Well. I also liked how
Speaker 1: some of that pride was also um shown in things
Speaker 1: like an appreciation of cheese and how that changed your
Speaker 1: perspective and how cheese could be eaten cold. You talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that that's that's a great example,
Speaker 1: you guys. And uh, I always used my experience as
Speaker 1: a tour guide and a travel writer in Europe is
Speaker 1: just sort of the classroom for this. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: when I grew up, I was cheese was no big deal.
Speaker 1: It was orange and the shape of the bread. You know,
Speaker 1: here you go cheese sandwich. Uh. And you go to
Speaker 1: Europe and and these European cheese mongers in Europe are
Speaker 1: evangelical about their cheese. Going to like in France, you're
Speaker 1: going to a cheese shop and and it's just a
Speaker 1: festival of mold. And I'll never forget the story. I
Speaker 1: talked about it in couple as a political act. The
Speaker 1: cheesemongers saw me as this American cultural bumpkin, you know,
Speaker 1: and oh, I'm as you're come over here and he
Speaker 1: picks up a mouldi wad of goat cheese and he
Speaker 1: takes a deep whip and he goes, oh, spell this cheese.
Speaker 1: It sells like the feet of angels. You know. It
Speaker 1: seems a little over the top. But but you know,
Speaker 1: even long before that, as a tour guide, when I
Speaker 1: was a kid doing you know, vagabond minibus tours around Europe.
Speaker 1: I had a passion for exposing my Americans the stinky,
Speaker 1: expensive cheese. You don't need to go home and have
Speaker 1: fancy taste and cheese, but it is good to know
Speaker 1: that a lot of people do and you have that option,
Speaker 1: And to me, it's just humbling. I just love to
Speaker 1: shake up my ethnocentricity and my cultural self assuredness and
Speaker 1: realize that there's more than one way to live our
Speaker 1: lives and we can really learn a lot. And it
Speaker 1: was just a joy for me to to just kind
Speaker 1: of collect all the most um fascinating and and u
Speaker 1: impactful experiences I've had in in a lifetime of traveling
Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone, hanging out with people who
Speaker 1: find different truths to be self evident and God given,
Speaker 1: and and collect all those experience in my Travel as
Speaker 1: a Political Act book. I give the talk Travel as
Speaker 1: a Political Act all over the United States. People can
Speaker 1: google it and watch me get the talk if they
Speaker 1: want to. And I thought writing the book would just
Speaker 1: simply be giving the talk to the page, you know,
Speaker 1: and writing up my talk. But it didn't turn out
Speaker 1: very well that way. But what I ended up doing
Speaker 1: was digging deeper and actually going back to the original
Speaker 1: experiences in the field and writing them up. And it's
Speaker 1: not it's a guidebook in disguise. Travel as a political
Speaker 1: actor is not designed so you can go to Cuba,
Speaker 1: or go to Palestine, or or go to Denmark and
Speaker 1: have the same experience I had. It's just a reminder
Speaker 1: that we can we can connect with people, and we
Speaker 1: can uh learn more about our country by leaving it
Speaker 1: and looking at it from a distance. And the world's
Speaker 1: a fascinating classroom and we have that option. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not that you you shouldn't go to Masilon, but
Speaker 1: you do have the option to go to Monagua instead
Speaker 1: of Mazilan, and that would be h an adventure that
Speaker 1: would broaden your viewpoint instead of your wasteline. I love
Speaker 1: how you talk about hearing experiences from locals and seeing
Speaker 1: history and foreign lens through their eyes. Like I think
Speaker 1: you got perspectives of a war torn region over I
Speaker 1: think it was a green walnut, Grandpa. Or how you
Speaker 1: got to see someone show you how they put on
Speaker 1: a headscarf and how like one tiny twist changes the
Speaker 1: meaning of it. But how do we get that sort
Speaker 1: of insight when we're traveling within the US. Well, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. My focus is traveling outside of the US.
Speaker 1: A lot of people, you know, a lot of people
Speaker 1: just don't have the finances or the the interest in
Speaker 1: been going far away for whatever reason. And our country
Speaker 1: is so multifaceted and uh and multicultural, and you know,
Speaker 1: you can have these same sort of travel experiences within
Speaker 1: our own country. That's something I'd like to do more of.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's just rich cultures, and for
Speaker 1: to me, I'm just so inspired by the fact that
Speaker 1: there are really important things to some cultures that are
Speaker 1: not important to other cultures. There are cultures that have
Speaker 1: baggage that other cultures don't have. There are cultures that
Speaker 1: have Nathan Hales that other cultures don't have. I was
Speaker 1: raised thinking, you know, Nathan Hale, Ethan l and Patrick
Speaker 1: Henry were like like amazing patriots. Well they were great patriots,
Speaker 1: but they weren't unique. And all over the world you've
Speaker 1: got Nathan Hale's doing their thing. You mentioned getting close
Speaker 1: enough to a culture where you learned that just the
Speaker 1: twist of the headband on the scarf is going to
Speaker 1: change the whole impression or meaning of how this woman
Speaker 1: is wearing that scarf. You know, I had the good
Speaker 1: fortune of going into a scarf shop in his stand
Speaker 1: bowl and scarps are are very stylish for women. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm interested. How it's interesting how so many a lot
Speaker 1: of Americans are just really put off by the fact
Speaker 1: that Muslims make their women wear scarves. You know. Well,
Speaker 1: Jewish women wear scarves after they're married, or they even
Speaker 1: wear wigs if they're an orthodox Jewish family to go out.
Speaker 1: They can't go out showing their own hair, I mean
Speaker 1: in some families. And who am I to judged that
Speaker 1: students until recent times also had women covering their hair.
Speaker 1: We're all on parallel evolutionary tracks. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we've had the Reformation, we've had the Revolution, We've had
Speaker 1: Vatican too. You know, we've learned, we're affluent, we've benefited
Speaker 1: from time and uh in a winning economic sort of system.
Speaker 1: Other societies are are behind us, perhaps in their evolutionary track,
Speaker 1: but hopefully you know, people are going in the in
Speaker 1: the same direction, and we have to give everybody a
Speaker 1: little wiggle room. All right, Well, we have time for
Speaker 1: a few more questions for Rick. But before we get
Speaker 1: to those, let's take a quick break. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: Part Time Genius, and we're talking to one of our
Speaker 1: favorite travel guides and travel writers, Rick Steves. I'm curious
Speaker 1: if there is a trip that stands out as one
Speaker 1: that maybe age you most nervous before you went on it,
Speaker 1: and where maybe you looked back and thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I went on the trip. Well, what
Speaker 1: was I so nervous about to begin with? Is there
Speaker 1: one or a couple that stand out more than others? Mhmm,
Speaker 1: you know, I am. I've been fearful about a lot
Speaker 1: of places in might travels. I for three times I
Speaker 1: was planning on going to India when I was much younger,
Speaker 1: and every year I found an excuse not to go
Speaker 1: there because I was afraid of the extreme poverty. And
Speaker 1: I finally got there and and it was it really
Speaker 1: opened me up to the world. In India's my favorite
Speaker 1: country on the planet. And I realized there's a lot
Speaker 1: of squalor and a lot of desperation in India. But
Speaker 1: there's an odd way to measure joy in book terms,
Speaker 1: not in individuals, but in the book sense. A billion
Speaker 1: people on the Indian subcontinent, there's a lot of joy
Speaker 1: on that continent. And it's even hard to I I
Speaker 1: hesitate even to talk about it, but India rearranges your
Speaker 1: cultural furniture better than any other place. Definitely hum me.
Speaker 1: Before going to Egypt, I heard all these scary stories
Speaker 1: about how intense the beggars were and it was so
Speaker 1: hot that tires were melting to the streets, and there's
Speaker 1: no maps anywhere, just so they can keep you confused.
Speaker 1: And these were the stories that backpackers were hearing in
Speaker 1: Greece before flying to Egypt. And I finally flew there
Speaker 1: and it was an amazing experience. I'm so glad I
Speaker 1: went there. I'll never forget walking across the wall from
Speaker 1: Jerusalem to Bethlehem. First time I did it, it was
Speaker 1: scary going into Palestine. And then after that, after spending
Speaker 1: a few days in Palestine, I realized what's most scary
Speaker 1: about it is it's a poor country. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: it's there's a tenfold difference in per capita income from
Speaker 1: Israel to Palestine. There's a lot of hard scrapple people,
Speaker 1: a lot of soldiers in the streets keeping the peace
Speaker 1: and everything, and but there was nothing dangerous about it.
Speaker 1: I just was afraid at first, I was afraid to
Speaker 1: go to Iran. We almost left our big professional TV
Speaker 1: camera in Athens, went in with our little sneak camera,
Speaker 1: thinking people would be throwing stones at an American film
Speaker 1: on the streets of Tehran got to Tehranto is that
Speaker 1: I swear in Iran. It was the friendliest welcome I've
Speaker 1: ever received with my film crew. As we're working the
Speaker 1: Tehran is a city of ten or fifteen million people,
Speaker 1: I think, and um, we're a lot of traffic jams
Speaker 1: and h I'll never forget where it stuck in one
Speaker 1: traffic jam, and it's just silent. And finally the man
Speaker 1: in the next car asked my driver to roll down
Speaker 1: his window. He passed over a bouquet of flowers and
Speaker 1: he said, please give this to the foreigner in your
Speaker 1: back seat and apologize for our traffic. I just thought
Speaker 1: that never happens here in Seattle I live. You know,
Speaker 1: the traffic, in the traffic jam. But Theran has that
Speaker 1: sort of warmth and beautiful person to person um um
Speaker 1: loveliness that you wouldn't know if you didn't travel there.
Speaker 1: And that's what I just love, is that vivid image
Speaker 1: of actually going there, whether it's uh, you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's Guatemala or the Yucatan, or Morocco or Sri Lanka.
Speaker 1: There's so many great places we can go to. And
Speaker 1: with travel as a political act, I just collect my
Speaker 1: favorite experiences from a lifetime of travel like this in
Speaker 1: hopes of inspiring Americans to go beyond Orlando. Well, we
Speaker 1: love it so much, but before we can let you go, uh, Rick,
Speaker 1: what would you tell us where you're headed next or
Speaker 1: where you're excited to go next. Yeah, I'm in a rut.
Speaker 1: For the last thirty years, I've spent four months a
Speaker 1: year in Europe. Every year, I spend April and May
Speaker 1: and the Mediterranean. I go home in June and then
Speaker 1: I go back to the north of the Alps for
Speaker 1: July and August. And I do this to update and
Speaker 1: right my guide books. We've got fifty Rick Steves guide
Speaker 1: books all over Europe. I've got a scout new TV shows.
Speaker 1: The biggest part of our business here I work with
Speaker 1: a hundred people in Seattle is my tour program. We
Speaker 1: took about twenty people on a thousand different tours this
Speaker 1: last year. So I work on the tour program and
Speaker 1: I take the tours, and then I spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time producing the TV shows. It takes six days
Speaker 1: to make one of our thirty minute episodes for public television,
Speaker 1: and we do about a dozen of those every two years.
Speaker 1: So that's what my work is. And and I've got
Speaker 1: new projects all the time, so I'll be filming in
Speaker 1: Sicily and Scotland this year. I'm also looking forward to
Speaker 1: doing a TV show one hour Primmer on the fundamentals
Speaker 1: of global hunger and poverty, and I'm going to use
Speaker 1: Ethiopia and Guatemala as a classroom, so that'll be a
Speaker 1: new show we'll be offering through public television I hope
Speaker 1: in the next year. Wow, you're an incredibly busy guy
Speaker 1: and we really appreciate your spending time with us. I
Speaker 1: hope all of our listeners will check out the latest
Speaker 1: edition of Travel as a Political Act, which I believe
Speaker 1: is out this week. But Rick, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. Pleasure to talk to both of you, and
Speaker 1: and happy travel. Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius
Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works and wouldn't be
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Speaker 1: for us. Did we? Did we forget Jan Jason who