1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: I guess, well, well, what's that man go? So one 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: of the things I love about my parents is how 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: they travel like you know them and they're pretty unassuming, 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: but they always end up in these wonderful little adventures. 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Like when they were young and in Paris together, they 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: were at dinner at some place where there was also 7 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: this big band with strings, and the band started up, 8 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: but no one was moving to the dance floor, and 9 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: the bandleader was kind of just begging people to join in. 10 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: And then my dad swept up my mom and they 11 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: danced on this empty floor, and of course people joined in. 12 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: But when I got back to their table, the band 13 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: leader brought them this fancy bottle of really smooth brandy 14 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: and then joined them at the table, and they had 15 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: this wonderful night together and kind of became friends. Wow, 16 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: that's such a sweet story. Yeah, but they kind of 17 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: embraced people wherever they go. So they went to Cancoon 18 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: once and instead of staying at a resort, they actually 19 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: traveled down the Yucatan to see these pyramids that only 20 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: archaeologist seemed to go to. And I mean, it's because 21 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: my mom's obsessed with ancient cultures. But while they were there, 22 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: they made friends with these fishermen who invited them to 23 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: dinner at their house, so of course they went, of course, 24 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,199 Speaker 1: And then they met their families, and they stayed late, 25 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: and and they were still sending postcards back and forth 26 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: from the US when they came back. I mean, those 27 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: are just like two of a thousand stories like that. 28 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: And as kids, we meet all sorts of people from 29 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: their travels. But I mean, now that I have kids, 30 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: I keep wondering, how do we make most of this 31 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: world into our travel, Like, how do we use it 32 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: to understand culture is better and broaden our perspectives while 33 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: you know, having so much fun doing it. And I 34 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: think we actually have the perfect person on to give 35 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: us a roadmap for that, the incredible Rick Steves. So 36 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: let's dig in a their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and it's always I'm joined 38 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: by my good friend man guest Ticketer and sitting behind 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: the soundproof glass ironing his Safari suit, that's our Palin 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: producer Tristan McNeil. It looks so straight like I thought 41 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: he was done with it. But it's never good enough 42 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: for Tristan. He wants perfect Chris before he gets out 43 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: there for the lions. Now, Tristan is excited about our 44 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: guest today, and that's because our guest today has helped 45 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: so many Americans be smarter, more thoughtful travelers. He's the 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: host of a popular travel series on public television and 47 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: a weekly show on NPR, and he's here to talk 48 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: to us about the release of the updated edition of 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: his book, Travel as a Political Act. Rick Steves, Welcome 50 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: to Part Time Genius. Nice to be with you now, Rick, 51 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: I loved reading about you explaining that your most powerful 52 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: travel experience was actually your very first one. You went 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: to Norway with your parents. I think you're at the 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: age of fourteen. Can can you tell us a little 55 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: bit about that? Yeah, well, I had a lot of 56 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: beautiful experiences in that trip, and I much I think 57 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: when you're referring to his I was in the park 58 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: and also behind the palace, and remember my parents were 59 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: just trying to make me happy and lavishing me with 60 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: love and attention, and I was kind of a you know, 61 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: as a typical fortunyear old kid being dragged on a 62 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: family vacation. And I remember looking out in that park 63 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: and it was just speckled with families, and I saw 64 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: all these parents loving their kids as much as my 65 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: parents loved me, and it occurred to me, Wow, this 66 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: world is home to billions of equally precious children of God. 67 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: And that was sort of a jolt for me. It 68 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: got me out of my ego and ethnocentric kind of trap, 69 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: and it opened me up to just a passion for 70 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: better understanding our world. Later on that same trip, I 71 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: was and I was on the carpet at my Norwegian 72 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: relatives living room and bergen and we were watching uh 73 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: Neil Armstrong step on the moon, you know, one small 74 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: step for men and one giant lead for man kind. 75 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: But I heard that in Norwegian, and I saw the 76 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: enthusiasm of all my Norwegian relatives, like just really just 77 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: ecstatic about this, and it occurred to me it wasn't 78 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: just an American accomplishment. This was a human accomplishment, and 79 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: the whole planet was excited about this. And I thought 80 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: in the United States people were really into waving their flag, 81 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: but uh, from a planetary point of view, it was 82 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: just a huge, great thing for for all of us. 83 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: And these were little moments that I had in my 84 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: childhood that contributed to my outlook. And I've spent my 85 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: career encouraging Americans to basically go beyond Orlando, to to 86 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: get out of their comfort zone and and broaden their 87 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: perspectives through travel. And I'm very excited about that whole 88 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: value of travel. Yeah, it's funny. My mom talks about 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: that same experience watching the moon landing in India, and 90 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: it is it was such a global phenomena. Since nine eleven, 91 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: you've been traveling and giving this talk travel as a 92 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: political act. He tell us what it means to travel 93 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: as a political act. Yeah, I've been teaching like mad 94 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: ever since I was a kid, my love of travel, 95 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: and I had didn't have any grand plan, but I've 96 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: been at for decades now, and if I look back, 97 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: it does have kind of a natural progression or evolution. 98 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: Back in the eighties, it was for me all about 99 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: budget travel, cheap tricks. Uh. I wrote a book called 100 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: Europe through the back Door, and I was teaching people, 101 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: you know, how to catch the train and pack light 102 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: and get a hotel and a nice meal, and that's 103 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: all important stuff and that's the foundation. And I see 104 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: that as kind of the the lowest rung of what 105 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: you could think of as Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs 106 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of human needs. And then 107 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: in the nineties, I figured, well, we've cut the train 108 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: and we know how to pack light and stay safe 109 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: and healthy. Now let's teach about enjoying the history and 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: the art. For travelers history and they are at the culture. 111 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: That's really why we travel. And I wrote a book 112 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: called Europe one oh one, and my my passion was 113 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: for teaching people to appreciate the culture and h Then 114 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: after nine eleven, I realized, you know, the pinnacle of 115 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: this Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs is inspiring and encouraging 116 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: and cooking Americans to get out of their comfort zone 117 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: to gain an empathy for the other nineties six percent 118 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: of humanity. And that's what I've been teaching a lot 119 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: since then. In fact, I'm going on a on a 120 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: road trip here in the next month while I'll be 121 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: in cities, given this talk about how we can travel 122 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 1: as a political act, and that really means again getting 123 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: out of her comfort zone, going south of the border, 124 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: gaining an empathy for the other humanity, and coming home 125 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: with what I think is the most beautiful souvenir. That's 126 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: a broader perspective. And uh, you know, a mindset where 127 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: you're more inclined to build bridges and less inclined to 128 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: build walls. Are We have so many more questions for you, Rick, 129 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: but before we get to those, let's take a quick break. 130 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, and we're talking to 131 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: Rick Steves about the latest edition of his book, Travel 132 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: as a Political Act. I like that you had been 133 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: in the book to having had tickets to India three 134 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: years in a row, but pushing off the trip for 135 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: your worry about going to Egypt. And I also love 136 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: that line use that the people who would benefit the 137 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: most from travel off and stay home. But I'm curious, like, 138 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: how do we push ourselves to embrace them comfortable and 139 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: sort of make the trips to places we might not 140 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: be as home with. Yeah, you know, I'm not at 141 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: all advocating going to dangerous places. There have been writers 142 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: that have had that as their publicity stunt, and they 143 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: go to war torn areas. I don't go to war 144 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: torn areas. I've never traveled anywhere where I think it's dangerous. 145 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: In fact, just this week I can filed out of 146 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: a plan to go to Egypt. I just don't think 147 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: it's quite right for me to go to Egypt and 148 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: encourage Americans to go there, because it's still struggling with 149 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: a lot of issues that are important, and I think 150 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: Americans might be uncomfortable there. But I've traveled a lot 151 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: lately in countries like Iran and Cuba and Palestine and 152 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: Russia and Denmark and the Netherlands and Portugal and Rocco, 153 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: and I just love, um, you know, having experiences and 154 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: taking notes and learning from my mistakes and and helping 155 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: other Americans go what I consider beyond our land. Don't 156 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: mention that earlier, And it really is kind of my 157 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: mission is to get Americans out of their comfort zone 158 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: and to realize the world is not a pyramid with 159 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: us on top and everybody else trying to figure it out. 160 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: There's smart people doing things different than us. This is 161 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: not America bashing. This is just acknowledging that there's not 162 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: the work ethic. You know, I was raised thinking we 163 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: have the work ethic. It's a work ethic. My Norwegian 164 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: relatives have a different work ethic. They don't have the 165 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: work ethic. And my Spanish. My Spanish mins have a 166 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: Spanish work ethic. It's not as hard as ours, but 167 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't make it a better or worse thing. They 168 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: choose to work less and have more time with their families. 169 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: That is a work ethic. And we have a work ethic. 170 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: And when we travel with a with a curiosity, in 171 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: an open mind, we challenge these norms that we think 172 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: are given and they're they're really not, and that lets 173 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: us make smarter decisions on how we want to run 174 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: our lives and how we want to weave the fabric 175 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: of our communities. Well, I I do love how how 176 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: human this book is, and that's one of the reasons 177 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: I like it so much, is you know, you're not 178 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: sort of just talking to people and ask them to 179 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: embrace everything you're saying. You're saying like your opinions will 180 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: differ from mine because we draw from different experiences. And 181 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: I really love the perspective you've you've filled this book with. 182 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: But I did want to ask you about this story 183 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: of being in Turkey and observing a whirling dervish or Suphie. 184 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: You know, I thought the way you describe it was 185 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: so beautiful and and I'd love to hear a little 186 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: bit about that and and what it means to sort 187 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: of have your I think you call it cultural furniture rearranged. Yeah, 188 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: Oh well, as a tour guide, you can imagine. First 189 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: of all, you mentioned how I'm trying to be respectful 190 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: of people with different life stories and different viewpoints. And 191 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: I've learned that just because as a tour guide, you've 192 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: got the bully pulp, but you're holding the mic and 193 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: people are trapped on that bus, and it's really important 194 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: if you if you want to have a challenging, stimulating, 195 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: transformational experience, that you don't abuse the bully pulp it. 196 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: So you know, we all have to respect that nobody's 197 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: got a luck on the truth here, and we're in 198 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: this together and we just have a chance to travel 199 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,359 Speaker 1: around and learn from fascinating and sometimes scary sort of circumstances. 200 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: Scary not meaning dangerous, but just scary because kind of freaky. 201 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: When I'm in Turkey, I love to meet a dervish 202 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: and introduce that dervish to my tour groups, and I 203 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: account in the book. I think it's even the leadoff 204 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: story and travel as a political act. How as a 205 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: tour guide, I found this dervish and I said, Hi, 206 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: I'm an American tour guid. I've got twenty Americans at 207 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: the hotel and we'd love to see you whirl. You know, 208 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: he's whirling dervishes. He said, I'm not a photo of 209 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a monk and I'm praying. But if 210 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: you want to watch me pray, I would welcome you 211 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: to watch me, but I need I need to be 212 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: able to explain to you what I'm doing. So I 213 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: said perfect where and when he said, on my rooftop 214 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: at sundown. So we gathered my group and we went 215 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: up to his rooftop and he walked. He came out 216 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: dressed up in his dervish outfit, you know, and he 217 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: welcome to us, and he said, I'm a I'm a dervish. 218 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: That's what you Americans would probably call him a monk. 219 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: And I follow My prophet is Nevellana. I think the 220 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: Christian equivalent would be St. Francis the Profit of Love. 221 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: Everybody can get their brains around his teachings and so on. 222 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: And he said, five times a day, I spin myself 223 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: into a meditative trance. And he showed us how he 224 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: places one foot in the middle, and that symbolizes his 225 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: home and his family. And then the other foot goes 226 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: around and around on the outside, celebrating the diversity in 227 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: God's great creation. And he spins with that motion, and 228 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: one hand goes up to accept the love of his creator, 229 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: and the other hand goes down like the spout on 230 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: a tea kettle, to shower God's love on his beautiful creation. 231 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: And the dervish spins himself into a meditative trance and 232 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: loses himself and that beautiful idea that he can be 233 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: a conduit of God's love, and standing there as a 234 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: tour guide, the travel teacher with twenty Americans who had 235 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: no idea what a dervish was except this comic cruise 236 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: ship entertainment, you know, and watching him lose himself in 237 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: that beautiful idea and his head tilted over and his 238 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: robe billowed out. And then for me to hand over 239 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: to the left and see the faces of my tourists, 240 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: just wonder struck, and to know that they were being 241 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: changed right now and they were going to go home 242 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: with that beautiful souvenir. And that's an empathy for other people, 243 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: a broader perspective. And then when they implement that broader 244 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: perspective back here in this beautiful country of ours. They're 245 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: making travel a political act. And uh, that's kind of 246 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: what I think is the greatest accomplishment for a tour 247 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: guide and a travel writer like me is to help 248 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: American travelers learned about the beauty and the diversity on 249 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: this planet and go home and not be afraid of it, 250 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: but to celebrate it. It's hard to imagine a more 251 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: powerful experience than to have set there and have you know, 252 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: a dervish explain what this was all about. That that's 253 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: that's such a wonderful story. Rick, I was hoping you 254 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: could tell us a little about your experience of being 255 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 1: a Lutheran and Namibia, you know, like that the priorities 256 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: there can be different, and reading the Bible through different 257 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: eyes there can Can you talk a little bit about that. Yeah, 258 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: I'm a Lutheran and I think it's fun to think 259 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: that there's more Lutherans in the Maybe than they're in 260 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: the United States. And I've been on trips with the 261 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: Lutheran Church help film mission workings on in Papa, New 262 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: Guinea and this and that, and uh, I think the 263 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: important thing for Ethno cent to Christians to understand is 264 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: there's you know, there's different ways that cultures embrace different faiths. 265 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: And uh, in my travels, I've I've really enjoyed trying 266 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: to be open minded about that and and learning from 267 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: other people. And uh, it's just Lutheran's have this funny 268 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: notion that Lutherans are all Germans or Scandinavians. It's another 269 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: example of b s no centristity, and we don't all 270 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: have jello and green hymnals and this sort of thing. 271 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: And casse roles as the garrison keeler jokes would be uh. 272 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: And uh that always is a powerful opportunity. And in 273 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: our travels we can, uh, we we can all you know, 274 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: endeavor to better understand God without being judgmental of each 275 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: each other. I'll never forget as a Christian tour guide 276 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: with a group in Turkey dancing in the living room 277 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: of a mayor of a little village that had never 278 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: met an American tour group before. And and I was 279 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: the big shot because as I was the tour guy, 280 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: and he was the big step because he was the mayor. 281 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: So he came over to me and we're all snapping 282 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: our fingers and shaking our shoulders and dancing, and he 283 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: took me over to the most sacred place in his house. 284 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: It was the his Koran bag, where he hangs his 285 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: Koran on the wall. And he said, in my Koran bag, 286 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: I keep a copy of the Bible, the Torah and 287 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: the Koran, because I believe as Christians, Jews and Muslims 288 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: are all children of the same God, people of the book. 289 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: And I just thought, Wow, I wish more Americans could 290 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: could meet this Muslim and to realize that there's just 291 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: so much there's so much joy and the challenges for 292 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: us to understand each other and respect each other and 293 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: know how we can live together, you know, as neighbors, 294 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: and sounds almost tried. But that's sort of the fundamental 295 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: thing about travel. We humanize this planet and we come 296 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: home not fearful, but we come home celebrating the diversity 297 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: and the joy and the love that just abounds on 298 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: this planet. And that's one thing I come home with 299 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: from wherever I travel, is that just the love of 300 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: a father or a mother for their child. It's perfectly 301 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: the same here or Guatemala or Sri Lanka or Papua 302 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: New Guinea or Norway or Morocco. I think it's really 303 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: interesting in your guides to places like Amsterdam, you know, 304 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: you choose to include, you know, sections on prostitution and marijuana, 305 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: both of which are legal there. And I think it's 306 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: very interesting philosophy that you have around this. Can you 307 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: talk about that philosophy on uncovering topics like these. I 308 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: don't think everybody needs to be into the same things, 309 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: but when you travel, you get expose two issues. Whether 310 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: it's the importance of water in a thirsty community it 311 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: doesn't where women have to abandon their kids and walk 312 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: for water every day, Whether it's the importance of separation 313 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: of mosque and state like we have separation of church 314 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: and state, or whether it's the importance in the case 315 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: of the Netherlands compared to the United States, of not 316 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: legislating morality. Legislating morality. Uh, that's a very important issue, 317 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: and that's you know, we might learn about that in school, 318 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: but to actually go to a place like the Netherlands 319 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: and and talk with people who say, you know, a 320 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: society has to make a choice tolerate alternative lifestyles or 321 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: build more prisons, and New Americans lock up ten times 322 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: as many people per capita as we do here in 323 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: the Netherlands. Either you are inherently more criminal people. Are 324 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: there something screw about your loss? Now, you can't dismiss 325 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: that we lock up ten times as many people here 326 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: in the United States as they do in Europe, most 327 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: of Europe. And uh uh, and it is because we're 328 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: really quick to legislate morality and uh and we incarceerate 329 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: people to solve our problems. Where it is in Europe, 330 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: they would rather have a system of pragmatic harm reduction 331 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: when it comes to prostitution. Nobody's gonna say prostitution is 332 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: a good thing, But I think that you can look 333 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: at this challenge in a pragmatic harm reduction kind of 334 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: way and realize that it's going to happen one way 335 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: or another. And uh, why don't we legalize it and 336 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: regulate it and let prostitutes have their union and required 337 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: that they get a medical checkup before they get their 338 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: license and they're not passing diseases, and organize it in 339 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: a way so when they have a dangerous client and 340 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: they push their emergency button, they're not rescued by a pimp, 341 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: but they're rescued by the local policeman. It doesn't work 342 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: out quite that nice, but that's the that's the ideal, 343 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: and that's what they're striving for. In the Netherlands, it's 344 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: quite impressive. The same thing with the drug problems in 345 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: the United States have got this opioid crisis, well, they've 346 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: had that crisis in Europe before. In fact, the two 347 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: countries that have the most progressive laws about their drugs 348 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: hard and soft are the Netherlands and Portugal. And both 349 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: of those countries were responding a decade or two ago 350 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: to an opioid crisis and they decided to take the 351 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: marijuana out of the equation and gain credibility for their 352 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: law enforcement and and UH. In those countries, the word 353 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: for addicted is enslaved. They don't see these people as 354 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: criminals that need handcuffs and lawyers and cops. They are 355 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: sick people that are enslaved to hard drug addiction. They 356 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: need compassion and counseling and nurses and UH. In those countries, 357 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: they don't have the overdose depths that we have, they 358 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: don't have the incarceration rates that we have, and they 359 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: don't consume more drugs than we do. They just deal 360 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: with it. In a smart, pragmatic, and compassionate way. So 361 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: these are examples of ways that we can learn from 362 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: our travels and make our country a better place. Yeah, 363 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: it's interesting to observe those differences. Now, one area where 364 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: we might all have certain things in common that I 365 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: thought was very interesting is you know you mentioned being 366 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: impressed by the level of pride and perhaps even surprised 367 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: at times that the national pride from place to place. Well, 368 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: these are the fun things that I've been able to 369 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: put into travel as a political act. And and when 370 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: my publisher was telling me we needed to reprint the 371 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: second edition, I said, hold off, because there's been so 372 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: many changes. I want to rework it for the new 373 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: third edition. And as far as pride goes, we're dealing 374 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: with this whole America first thing, and tribalism and nativism 375 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: and Erexit and and air togon, and there's all these 376 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: changes in these turmoil and the political landscape, both in 377 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: Europe and in the United States, and we can learn 378 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: from that. I mean, we're looking at failed countries in 379 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean basin that when they fall apart, they've got 380 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: millions of refugees heading for Europe. We'll think of the 381 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: failed nations. You've got Libya, you've got Syria, you've got Iraq. 382 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: Those political borders were drawn by European colonial interests a 383 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: century ago. And now we have an idea that, oh, 384 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: they've got to be democratic. So we threw out their 385 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: strong arm leaders. There Saddam Hussein's, their Kadafis and their Assads, 386 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: and and what you get is a country that falls apart. 387 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: It's a fake country. It can't be held together in 388 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: a democratic way. We created the fake countries, and then 389 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: a century later we said you gotta have democratic rulers. 390 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: And the consequences, they fall apart, and then they all 391 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,239 Speaker 1: these desperate people knock on the door of Europe. Uh. 392 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: This is the consequences of europe and American colonial interests 393 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: not sensitive to local ethnic realities. There is this pride 394 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: in these countries, but it is ethnic pride, and there 395 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: Pean Union has has really respected ethnic pride. As a 396 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: matter of fact, the European Union does not fund political 397 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: units that were created after wars when line lines were drawn, 398 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: like today's Austria. The European Union funds ethnic realities. I've 399 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: got a friend who is an archaeologist who renovates castles 400 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: in the Tyrol, and if he wants money, he doesn't 401 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: go to Vienna. You'll go home with nothing. He goes 402 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: to Brussels. And when he goes to Brussels, he doesn't 403 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: say I got something great for Austria. He says I's 404 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: got a cool idea for the Tyrol, and Brussels gives 405 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: him money because Brussels understands it is the ethnic regions 406 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: that really are the truth. And today the little language 407 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: is nearper more widely spoken uh now than they were 408 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: a generation ago, because Europe is embracing these sort of 409 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: ethnic realities. I just love this idea that there's that 410 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: national pride that does not die away, and when it's respected, 411 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: I think things go better. And this is an example 412 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: of how when you travel you home with just a better, 413 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: more human, more real understanding of the dynamics that are 414 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: shaping the headlines that we're going to be reading throughout 415 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: the rest of our life. Well. I also liked how 416 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: some of that pride was also um shown in things 417 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: like an appreciation of cheese and how that changed your 418 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: perspective and how cheese could be eaten cold. You talk 419 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: a little bit about that that's that's a great example, 420 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: you guys. And uh, I always used my experience as 421 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: a tour guide and a travel writer in Europe is 422 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: just sort of the classroom for this. And uh, you know, 423 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: when I grew up, I was cheese was no big deal. 424 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: It was orange and the shape of the bread. You know, 425 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: here you go cheese sandwich. Uh. And you go to 426 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: Europe and and these European cheese mongers in Europe are 427 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 1: evangelical about their cheese. Going to like in France, you're 428 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: going to a cheese shop and and it's just a 429 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: festival of mold. And I'll never forget the story. I 430 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: talked about it in couple as a political act. The 431 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: cheesemongers saw me as this American cultural bumpkin, you know, 432 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: and oh, I'm as you're come over here and he 433 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: picks up a mouldi wad of goat cheese and he 434 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,479 Speaker 1: takes a deep whip and he goes, oh, spell this cheese. 435 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: It sells like the feet of angels. You know. It 436 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: seems a little over the top. But but you know, 437 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: even long before that, as a tour guide, when I 438 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: was a kid doing you know, vagabond minibus tours around Europe. 439 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: I had a passion for exposing my Americans the stinky, 440 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: expensive cheese. You don't need to go home and have 441 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: fancy taste and cheese, but it is good to know 442 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: that a lot of people do and you have that option, 443 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: And to me, it's just humbling. I just love to 444 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,239 Speaker 1: shake up my ethnocentricity and my cultural self assuredness and 445 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: realize that there's more than one way to live our 446 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: lives and we can really learn a lot. And it 447 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: was just a joy for me to to just kind 448 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: of collect all the most um fascinating and and u 449 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: impactful experiences I've had in in a lifetime of traveling 450 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone, hanging out with people who 451 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: find different truths to be self evident and God given, 452 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: and and collect all those experience in my Travel as 453 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: a Political Act book. I give the talk Travel as 454 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: a Political Act all over the United States. People can 455 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: google it and watch me get the talk if they 456 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: want to. And I thought writing the book would just 457 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: simply be giving the talk to the page, you know, 458 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: and writing up my talk. But it didn't turn out 459 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,239 Speaker 1: very well that way. But what I ended up doing 460 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: was digging deeper and actually going back to the original 461 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: experiences in the field and writing them up. And it's 462 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: not it's a guidebook in disguise. Travel as a political 463 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: actor is not designed so you can go to Cuba, 464 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: or go to Palestine, or or go to Denmark and 465 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: have the same experience I had. It's just a reminder 466 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: that we can we can connect with people, and we 467 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: can uh learn more about our country by leaving it 468 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: and looking at it from a distance. And the world's 469 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: a fascinating classroom and we have that option. You know, 470 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: it's not that you you shouldn't go to Masilon, but 471 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: you do have the option to go to Monagua instead 472 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: of Mazilan, and that would be h an adventure that 473 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: would broaden your viewpoint instead of your wasteline. I love 474 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: how you talk about hearing experiences from locals and seeing 475 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: history and foreign lens through their eyes. Like I think 476 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: you got perspectives of a war torn region over I 477 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: think it was a green walnut, Grandpa. Or how you 478 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: got to see someone show you how they put on 479 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: a headscarf and how like one tiny twist changes the 480 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: meaning of it. But how do we get that sort 481 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: of insight when we're traveling within the US. Well, that's 482 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: a good question. My focus is traveling outside of the US. 483 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: A lot of people, you know, a lot of people 484 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: just don't have the finances or the the interest in 485 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: been going far away for whatever reason. And our country 486 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: is so multifaceted and uh and multicultural, and you know, 487 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: you can have these same sort of travel experiences within 488 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: our own country. That's something I'd like to do more of. 489 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's just rich cultures, and for 490 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: to me, I'm just so inspired by the fact that 491 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: there are really important things to some cultures that are 492 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: not important to other cultures. There are cultures that have 493 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: baggage that other cultures don't have. There are cultures that 494 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: have Nathan Hales that other cultures don't have. I was 495 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: raised thinking, you know, Nathan Hale, Ethan l and Patrick 496 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: Henry were like like amazing patriots. Well they were great patriots, 497 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: but they weren't unique. And all over the world you've 498 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: got Nathan Hale's doing their thing. You mentioned getting close 499 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: enough to a culture where you learned that just the 500 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: twist of the headband on the scarf is going to 501 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: change the whole impression or meaning of how this woman 502 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: is wearing that scarf. You know, I had the good 503 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: fortune of going into a scarf shop in his stand 504 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: bowl and scarps are are very stylish for women. Uh, 505 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: I'm interested. How it's interesting how so many a lot 506 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: of Americans are just really put off by the fact 507 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: that Muslims make their women wear scarves. You know. Well, 508 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: Jewish women wear scarves after they're married, or they even 509 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: wear wigs if they're an orthodox Jewish family to go out. 510 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: They can't go out showing their own hair, I mean 511 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: in some families. And who am I to judged that 512 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: students until recent times also had women covering their hair. 513 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: We're all on parallel evolutionary tracks. And uh, you know, 514 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: we've had the Reformation, we've had the Revolution, We've had 515 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Vatican too. You know, we've learned, we're affluent, we've benefited 516 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: from time and uh in a winning economic sort of system. 517 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: Other societies are are behind us, perhaps in their evolutionary track, 518 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: but hopefully you know, people are going in the in 519 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: the same direction, and we have to give everybody a 520 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: little wiggle room. All right, Well, we have time for 521 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: a few more questions for Rick. But before we get 522 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: to those, let's take a quick break. Welcome back to 523 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius, and we're talking to one of our 524 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: favorite travel guides and travel writers, Rick Steves. I'm curious 525 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: if there is a trip that stands out as one 526 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: that maybe age you most nervous before you went on it, 527 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: and where maybe you looked back and thought, you know, 528 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: I'm so glad I went on the trip. Well, what 529 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: was I so nervous about to begin with? Is there 530 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: one or a couple that stand out more than others? Mhmm, 531 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, I am. I've been fearful about a lot 532 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: of places in might travels. I for three times I 533 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: was planning on going to India when I was much younger, 534 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: and every year I found an excuse not to go 535 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: there because I was afraid of the extreme poverty. And 536 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: I finally got there and and it was it really 537 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: opened me up to the world. In India's my favorite 538 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: country on the planet. And I realized there's a lot 539 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: of squalor and a lot of desperation in India. But 540 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: there's an odd way to measure joy in book terms, 541 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: not in individuals, but in the book sense. A billion 542 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: people on the Indian subcontinent, there's a lot of joy 543 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: on that continent. And it's even hard to I I 544 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: hesitate even to talk about it, but India rearranges your 545 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: cultural furniture better than any other place. Definitely hum me. 546 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: Before going to Egypt, I heard all these scary stories 547 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: about how intense the beggars were and it was so 548 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: hot that tires were melting to the streets, and there's 549 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: no maps anywhere, just so they can keep you confused. 550 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: And these were the stories that backpackers were hearing in 551 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: Greece before flying to Egypt. And I finally flew there 552 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: and it was an amazing experience. I'm so glad I 553 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: went there. I'll never forget walking across the wall from 554 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: Jerusalem to Bethlehem. First time I did it, it was 555 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: scary going into Palestine. And then after that, after spending 556 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: a few days in Palestine, I realized what's most scary 557 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: about it is it's a poor country. Uh you know, 558 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: it's there's a tenfold difference in per capita income from 559 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: Israel to Palestine. There's a lot of hard scrapple people, 560 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: a lot of soldiers in the streets keeping the peace 561 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: and everything, and but there was nothing dangerous about it. 562 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: I just was afraid at first, I was afraid to 563 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: go to Iran. We almost left our big professional TV 564 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: camera in Athens, went in with our little sneak camera, 565 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: thinking people would be throwing stones at an American film 566 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: on the streets of Tehran got to Tehranto is that 567 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: I swear in Iran. It was the friendliest welcome I've 568 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: ever received with my film crew. As we're working the 569 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: Tehran is a city of ten or fifteen million people, 570 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: I think, and um, we're a lot of traffic jams 571 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: and h I'll never forget where it stuck in one 572 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: traffic jam, and it's just silent. And finally the man 573 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: in the next car asked my driver to roll down 574 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: his window. He passed over a bouquet of flowers and 575 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: he said, please give this to the foreigner in your 576 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: back seat and apologize for our traffic. I just thought 577 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: that never happens here in Seattle I live. You know, 578 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: the traffic, in the traffic jam. But Theran has that 579 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: sort of warmth and beautiful person to person um um 580 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: loveliness that you wouldn't know if you didn't travel there. 581 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: And that's what I just love, is that vivid image 582 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: of actually going there, whether it's uh, you know, whether 583 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: it's Guatemala or the Yucatan, or Morocco or Sri Lanka. 584 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: There's so many great places we can go to. And 585 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: with travel as a political act, I just collect my 586 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: favorite experiences from a lifetime of travel like this in 587 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: hopes of inspiring Americans to go beyond Orlando. Well, we 588 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: love it so much, but before we can let you go, uh, Rick, 589 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: what would you tell us where you're headed next or 590 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: where you're excited to go next. Yeah, I'm in a rut. 591 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: For the last thirty years, I've spent four months a 592 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: year in Europe. Every year, I spend April and May 593 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: and the Mediterranean. I go home in June and then 594 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: I go back to the north of the Alps for 595 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: July and August. And I do this to update and 596 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: right my guide books. We've got fifty Rick Steves guide 597 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: books all over Europe. I've got a scout new TV shows. 598 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: The biggest part of our business here I work with 599 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: a hundred people in Seattle is my tour program. We 600 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: took about twenty people on a thousand different tours this 601 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: last year. So I work on the tour program and 602 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: I take the tours, and then I spend a lot 603 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: of time producing the TV shows. It takes six days 604 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: to make one of our thirty minute episodes for public television, 605 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: and we do about a dozen of those every two years. 606 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: So that's what my work is. And and I've got 607 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: new projects all the time, so I'll be filming in 608 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: Sicily and Scotland this year. I'm also looking forward to 609 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: doing a TV show one hour Primmer on the fundamentals 610 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: of global hunger and poverty, and I'm going to use 611 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: Ethiopia and Guatemala as a classroom, so that'll be a 612 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: new show we'll be offering through public television I hope 613 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: in the next year. Wow, you're an incredibly busy guy 614 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: and we really appreciate your spending time with us. I 615 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: hope all of our listeners will check out the latest 616 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: edition of Travel as a Political Act, which I believe 617 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: is out this week. But Rick, thanks so much for 618 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: joining us. Pleasure to talk to both of you, and 619 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: and happy travel. Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius 620 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works and wouldn't be 621 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things. 622 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: We couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does the 623 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and does 624 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 1: the exy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact 625 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: producer thing. Gabe Loesier is our lead researcher, with support 626 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and 627 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: Lucas Adams and Eve. Jeff Cook gets the show to 628 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard, 629 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: we hope you'll subscribe, And if you really really like 630 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: what you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review 631 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: for us. Did we? Did we forget Jan Jason who