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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease, are we on.

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Speaker 2: The cusp of learning the truth about what happened to

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Speaker 2: American beauty teen girl Natalie Holloway. Natalie Holloway and all

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Speaker 2: a student set to head off to college and pre

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Speaker 2: med her life cut short when she goes on a

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Speaker 2: senior trip to Aruba, class sponsored. She's never seen alive again. Many,

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Speaker 2: including myself, believe that she was murdered by a judge's.

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Speaker 1: Son in Aruba.

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Speaker 2: Yorn e Van der Sloot, It's such a long and

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Speaker 2: sortied story Natalie Holloway except a ride, very uncharacteristic. I

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Speaker 2: believe that she had been given a Ruthie in her

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Speaker 2: drink at a casino that night in Aruba. We have

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Speaker 2: now learned, after traveling to Aruba and investigating, that that

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Speaker 2: was the modus operandi method of operation of the judge's son,

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Speaker 2: Jorn vander Slute, to give tourist girls Ruthie's and then

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Speaker 2: rape them. Long story short, I believe that's what happened

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Speaker 2: to Natalie that night. She left very uncharacteristically, left her

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Speaker 2: friends behind, gets in the car with this guy out

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Speaker 2: of it. This girl was never seen again. Orn vander

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Speaker 2: Slute holds the answers to her death, and now, after

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Speaker 2: trying to bribe Natalie's mother by promising to tell the truth,

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Speaker 2: he's facing federal charges for extortion and wire fraud. As

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Speaker 2: part of a plea deal, he says he'll reveal what

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Speaker 2: happened to Natalie. Is it true? I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 2: on series six, sem one eleven. Listen to this.

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Speaker 3: It looks like you're in.

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Speaker 4: Vander Sloade's going to plead guilty in his federal extortion case.

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Speaker 4: Core Record show. He has a plea and sentencing hearing

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Speaker 4: set for Wednesday morning at the Federal courthouse in Birmingham.

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Speaker 5: This is in the case where he allegedly told Natalie

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Speaker 5: Holloway's parents that he would tell them where her body

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Speaker 5: was in exchange for thousands of dollars.

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Speaker 6: For the last eighteen years, Natalie Holloway's family and her

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Speaker 6: community have endured the pain of the unknown. Now, family

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Speaker 6: attorney John Kelly tells us you're Ron Vanderslote is revealing

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Speaker 6: details about Holloway's death in Aruba. The confession is part

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Speaker 6: of a plea bargain and a federal wirefraud case link

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Speaker 6: to Holloway's disappearance.

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Speaker 7: They're opity further, you know, investigation or search or anything

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Speaker 7: like that.

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Speaker 3: If that's what you're asking for Natalie's remains, What.

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Speaker 2: Are we actually taking his words for it? I can't

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Speaker 2: believe that's happening. So he tried to basically extort a

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Speaker 2: grieving mother for thousands and thousands of dollars to tell

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Speaker 2: her where now he's remains. We her, He gets the

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Speaker 2: money and then lies, and now he's doing it again.

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Speaker 2: He's getting a plea deal in exchange for telling us

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Speaker 2: renale he's remains are Seriously, anybody's going to believe him?

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Speaker 2: With me in All Star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know Right now, you were just hearing our

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Speaker 2: friends at WVTM. Now take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 2: at the Today Show.

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Speaker 4: Joran vander Slouth will appear in an Alabama courtroom once

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Speaker 4: again the prime suspect and not Onie Holloway's disappearance for years.

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Speaker 4: Vanders Slute has never been charged with her murder, but

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Speaker 4: he was extra douted to the US months ago, accused

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Speaker 4: of attempting to extort the Holloway family. Vandersloot pleaded not guilty,

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Speaker 4: but according to the Holloway family attorney, the court will

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Speaker 4: consider a plea deal this week with the major contingency.

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Speaker 7: It was conditioned upon mister vandersleuth through billing details of

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Speaker 7: how Natalie died and our body was disposed.

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Speaker 2: Of seriously, and we're gonna just give him a plea deal.

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Speaker 2: Is it a sweet plea deal for another sack of lies?

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Speaker 2: What a piece of crap. There's no other way to

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Speaker 2: put it. He is leading everybody down the garden path

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Speaker 2: with me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know. But first I'm going to go straight

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Speaker 2: out to Carol Robinson, senior investigative reporter for Alalabama dot com. Carol,

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Speaker 2: is somebody actually believing him?

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Speaker 8: Nancy, I'm a little bit surprised by all of it, honestly. Again,

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Speaker 8: you know, we know that this is the condition of

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Speaker 8: the plea, but we don't know how you prove what

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Speaker 8: he's told them.

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Speaker 2: I'm just telling you, okay. Cheryl McCollum joining me right

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Speaker 2: now now, Director to Cold Case Research Institute, forensic expert.

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Speaker 2: You can find her at Coldcasecrimes dot org and she's

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Speaker 2: a star of the new podcast Zone seven. Cheryl, please

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Speaker 2: just let me do a lightning round with you, if

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Speaker 2: that's even possible. With Cheryl McCollum, this is yes. No,

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Speaker 2: that's what that means. Yes, no answers, No, Cheryl. Isn't

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Speaker 2: it true that you and I and Natalie's mother just

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Speaker 2: got back from going to a room of where we

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Speaker 2: almost got arrested? Yes, trying to find the truth. Isn't

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Speaker 2: that true?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 9: Absolutely so, we're.

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Speaker 2: Traveling across the world to try to find out what

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Speaker 2: happened to n Aalie Holloway. And it's because your in

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Speaker 2: Vanderschlut has never told the truth, nor has his father.

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Speaker 2: The judge who I say, your in Vanderschlute gave him

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Speaker 2: a heart attack and he died, but I think the

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Speaker 2: judge his father was in on disposing of her body

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Speaker 2: as well. The whole reason you and I had to

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Speaker 2: go there is because we want an answer, is to

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Speaker 2: try to help Beth the mother, and we couldn't get

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Speaker 2: them because your Vanderslut has been lying since day.

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Speaker 3: One, Nancy.

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Speaker 9: Beth told us he had changed.

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Speaker 2: I knew, I knew you could not do it. Yes, no,

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Speaker 2: but that's okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 9: Beth told us there he had changed it, and.

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Speaker 2: That was you running away while I was getting arrested.

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Speaker 2: That was you nothing but elbows and tailhold. That's all

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Speaker 2: I could see.

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Speaker 9: Gosh, I was saving myself.

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Speaker 7: Honey.

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Speaker 2: Yes, somebody had to be the scribed. Somebody had to

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Speaker 2: tell the world right why Nancy Grace was arrested? Go ahead?

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Speaker 9: But she told us there he had changed his story

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Speaker 9: like seventy times.

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Speaker 2: Why wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait wait, actually seventy

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Speaker 2: are you exaggerating?

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Speaker 9: I'm exaggerating. But the point is she told us every

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Speaker 9: single time.

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Speaker 7: We know for a fact.

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Speaker 9: In twenty sixteen, he says, she's buried in a house.

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Speaker 9: Then she's with dog bones.

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Speaker 2: What what house? Dog bones? Out to see? Wait? Wait

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Speaker 2: wait wait? The fisher huts.

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Speaker 9: Yep, sex traffic. You know, buried under the hotel. He

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Speaker 9: had dropped d off of the hotel. He left her

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Speaker 9: on the beach. I mean he changes his story every.

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Speaker 2: Time he talked, left one out. I couldn't write that

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Speaker 2: fast house with his dog was with dog bones, the

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Speaker 2: fisherman hut, buried under the hotel out to see beach up?

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Speaker 2: That was it? Sex traffic. All of these stories have

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Speaker 2: come from your Vandersloep.

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Speaker 9: Okay, go ahead, and we've all seen him confess multiple

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Speaker 9: times on tape and then you know he extorts Beth.

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Speaker 2: I guess the one when you said on the beach

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Speaker 2: was the one where he was caught on tape and

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Speaker 2: he was saying that she vomited and choked on her

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Speaker 2: own vomit and died. Right, yeah, okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 9: So you know it's tomorrow morning going to be any

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Speaker 9: big revelation for everybody, most probably not. He's never told

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Speaker 9: the complete truth. He's thrown people under the bus, including

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Speaker 9: his own father. He's allowed friends to tell, you know,

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Speaker 9: their version of what occurred. But here's what I think.

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Speaker 9: I think whatever he tells Tomara Aruba should get some

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Speaker 9: warrants ready for him and the Kalpo brothers.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, guys, in less than twenty four hours, your vander Sloot,

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Speaker 2: the judge's son that murdered Natalie Holloway. Yeah, I'll say it.

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Speaker 2: Come on, come after me, Vandersloot, Come after me, man,

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Speaker 2: because you know what, when you follow a civil lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: that means you will take the stand. Because I would

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Speaker 2: call him and put him on the stand as my

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Speaker 2: first witness in a civil lawsuit and grill him like

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Speaker 2: a hot dog about what happened the night that Natalie

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Speaker 2: was killed, and all of his different stories and all

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Speaker 2: of his similar transactions, all the times that we learned

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum while we were in Aruba. You know what

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Speaker 2: you tell it. I don't want a Q and A

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Speaker 2: with myself, Cheryl McCollum about his MO about slipping drugs

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Speaker 2: into drinks and girls. Everybody the old casino knew that

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Speaker 2: was what he was doing.

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Speaker 9: Everybody knew it. Everybody knew him the night the day

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Speaker 9: she went missing. Beth landed that night, went straight to

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Speaker 9: the hotel, then went to Carlos and Charlie's. They told

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Speaker 9: her your hand Vandersloot they named him. He was seventeen

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Speaker 9: years old. She went to the house. He stood in

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Speaker 9: front of the stepfather, her father, her mother and described,

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Speaker 9: oh yeah, I was touching her and her underwear had

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Speaker 9: flowers and bordered on it. Not only did every bartender

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Speaker 9: know his MO was to slip roe hipnol to a

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Speaker 9: tourist that he knew was leaving the next day, because

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Speaker 9: what are the odds that somebody's going to stay behind

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Speaker 9: miss their flight? Have to pay hundreds of dollars to

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Speaker 9: get on a new flight to make a police report.

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Speaker 9: He knew that the likelihood was almost kneel that somebody

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Speaker 9: would do that.

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Speaker 2: You know, joining me in addition to senior investigative reporter

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Speaker 2: for al dot Com, Carol Robinson and Cheryl mccollumb. Also

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Joseph Scott Morgan with me,

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Speaker 2: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet,

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Speaker 2: host of a new hit series Body Bags with Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan. Joe Scott Just for people that don't know

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Speaker 2: what a roof is or GHB Georgia homeboy, explain what

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Speaker 2: that does if that slipped in a woman's drink.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a precursor. The drug itself or hibbenol, is

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Speaker 10: actually a precursor. Just so that people understand this as

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Speaker 10: a precursor for anesthesia. So if that's how powerful it is.

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Speaker 10: So if you go to get surgery, for instance, before

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Speaker 10: they actually put you under, there's that kind of drug

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Speaker 10: that they will administer to you. It gives you got

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Speaker 10: kind of warm, milky like floating feeling you don't have.

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Speaker 10: You can't defend yourself you're not going to be able

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Speaker 10: to move your arms. You react very slowly. It puts

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Speaker 10: you into almost like a dream state. And actually this

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Speaker 10: particular drug as it applies to GHB, has almost an

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Speaker 10: amnesia effect like to it, so you can't remember things.

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Speaker 10: That's why it's been referred to as a date break

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Speaker 10: drug because people can be attacked after having it been

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Speaker 10: administered to them and they'll wake up they have no

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Speaker 10: idea where they are. But you know the thing about this,

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Speaker 10: if he Vandersloot does in fact have this history of

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Speaker 10: utilizing this drug, he understands what the potential is with

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Speaker 10: the drug because he can manipulate, he can guide. Once

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Speaker 10: once you have this drug in somebody's system, Nancy, you

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Speaker 10: can guide and direct them to do whatever and the

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Speaker 10: hell it is you want them to do, even if

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Speaker 10: it leads to a homicide.

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Speaker 2: Which leads us to today right now. Can you imagine

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Speaker 2: what is going through Beth's mind. She has had a

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Speaker 2: quest for justice since Natalie went missing, way back when

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Speaker 2: she's done everything possible. She's spent all her time, all

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Speaker 2: of her money, her hopes, her dreams, her plans dashed

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Speaker 2: in one night in Aruba when she let her daughter

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Speaker 2: go on a trip heavily chaperoned, nobody did. It's not

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Speaker 2: the school's fault. It's not the chaperone's fault. It's not

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Speaker 2: the mom's fault. It's your Vanderslute's fault. It's like saying,

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Speaker 2: whose fault is it? When a jackal sneaks up to

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Speaker 2: the watering hole in the serengetti and then attacks and

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Speaker 2: tears the throat out of a young gazelle. Whose fault

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Speaker 2: is that? It's the jackal's fault. Your Vanderslute is the

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Speaker 2: jackal in this scenario? Will we find out anything tomorrow morning?

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Sam brought with NBC.

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Speaker 4: Kelly expects vander Slute's detailed narrative of how Natalie died

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Speaker 4: to be revealed after court this week, but much remains

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Speaker 4: under wraps. Back in twenty ten, federal prosecutors accused vander

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Speaker 4: Slut of attempting to extort a quarter of a million

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Speaker 4: dollars from Holloway's mother, Beth for information about how her

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Speaker 4: daughter died. Kelly says the Dutch national later agreed to

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Speaker 4: reveal the location of Natalie's remains in Aruba in exchange

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Speaker 4: for a twenty five thousand dollars payment the information proved false.

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Speaker 2: I mean joining me Doctor John Deleatory, licensed psychologist mediator.

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Speaker 2: He specializes in forensic criminal psychology. Oh and you can

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Speaker 2: find him at resolution fcs dot com. Doctor Delatory, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. I'm just thinking about what

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Speaker 2: is going to happen tomorrow. You know, when you don't

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Speaker 2: know a horse. Look at his track wreck. This guy's

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Speaker 2: done nothing but lie since he murdered Natalie Holloway. Why

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Speaker 2: do we expect him to tell the truth tomorrow morning.

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Speaker 2: He's just going to say what he thinks people want

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Speaker 2: him to say to get a play deal. That's all

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Speaker 2: it's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, this is simply a matter of procedure. No

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Speaker 3: one who is in their right mind is going to

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Speaker 3: believe anything, Vandersloot says. Everybody knows that it's going to

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Speaker 3: be another concoction that he has because he enjoys the concoction.

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Speaker 3: He enjoys having people as a worm on the fishook.

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Speaker 3: That's the part that he enjoys. No one's going to

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Speaker 3: believe him. But this is simply a matter of procedure,

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Speaker 3: something that has to get through for this what I'm

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Speaker 3: going to say, is a travesty of justice. This is

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Speaker 3: nowhere near the justice that Natalie Holloway deserves.

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Speaker 2: You know what, You just says something, and I'm going

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Speaker 2: to write this down. Everybody, guys on the panel, this

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Speaker 2: is this is really interesting. Everything you said, Delatory is interesting,

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Speaker 2: but he enjoys the concoc hold on. I go write

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Speaker 2: that down because it reminds me of something that happened.

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Speaker 2: I went to California for a victim's rights march, and

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Speaker 2: while I was there, a young girl came up to me,

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Speaker 2: like she's about seventeen, and she told me this horrible

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Speaker 2: story of attacks on her, an attack on her, how

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Speaker 2: she's been a crime victim, of sex abuse victim, and

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Speaker 2: she's trying to work through it, and she wanted to

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Speaker 2: talk to me. So I fly back to New York.

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Speaker 2: I gave her my email and phone number, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to help her. For the next couple of years,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Delatory say three years, I would listen to her

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Speaker 2: on the phone, I would try to find her counselors.

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Speaker 2: I would just all sorts of time, and I paid

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Speaker 2: for some of the counselors to try to help her.

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Speaker 2: Wait for it. So the stories I didn't see it

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Speaker 2: at the time, became more elaborate. In the end. She

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Speaker 2: had said she had a job at Starbucks and the

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Speaker 2: Starbucks got robbed and she was further traumatized, and she

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Speaker 2: was victimized, and I went, well, you know, and the

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Speaker 2: people hadn't been caught. So I said, well, what do

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Speaker 2: police say? And she said, well, we and there wasn't

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Speaker 2: a clear answer. I said, well, let me get the

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Speaker 2: police report, and I'm going to help you go to

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Speaker 2: a victim specialist and we're gonna I'm gonna help on

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Speaker 2: the case. I'm gonna personally get involved and I will

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Speaker 2: come out there and help investigate the case to get

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Speaker 2: the robbers. It's very involved. Well, as it turned out,

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Speaker 2: there was no case, and I finally got a hold

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Speaker 2: of her aunt, who the little girl that turned out

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Speaker 2: had been impersonating her aunt and writing me about her condition.

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Speaker 2: The whole thing for like years was liese just to

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Speaker 2: get attention, I guess, and enjoying the concoction. And at

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Speaker 2: the end I didn't feel I just felt really bad

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Speaker 2: for this girl, This little girl, she couldn't have bet

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Speaker 2: that point been over twenty years old. But that is

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Speaker 2: very bizarre.

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Speaker 6: RV.

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Speaker 2: Brandt joining me Senior Inspector US Marshall Service, International Investigations Branch,

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Speaker 2: Chief Inspector, DOJ, Office of International Affairs. Author of Solo Shot,

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Speaker 2: Curse of the Bluestone, which is awesome, and Flying Solo

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Speaker 2: top of the World. Erv Brant. All of this is

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Speaker 2: happening here, but the murder case can never go forward

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Speaker 2: anywhere but in Aruba. So how do we take this

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Speaker 2: case here? The extortion case, get the statement he's going

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Speaker 2: to get, assuming there's no immunity deal, but the Fans

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Speaker 2: can't grant him immunity in Aruba and then get him

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Speaker 2: back to Aruba to be tried for murder.

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Speaker 7: Me and t Bell would be an action by the

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Speaker 7: ruined government. The United States wouldn't have a saying it.

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Speaker 7: Once Yourn pleads guilty or is found guilty, whichever happens,

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Speaker 7: he's going to be sentenced in the United States, then

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Speaker 7: he's going to be sent back to Peru. He's only

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Speaker 7: he was extradited only on the condition that he'd be

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Speaker 7: returned to Peru, so he's going to go back to Peru.

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Speaker 7: It would then be up to the Aruben government to

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Speaker 7: extradite him from Peru to Aruba. He couldn't go from

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Speaker 7: the United States back to Aruba.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just trying to think through what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: And I also want to follow up on doctor John

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Speaker 2: Delatori's statement that he's enjoying the concoction. James shell nutt

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Speaker 2: is with me, high profile lawyer joining me from the

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Speaker 2: shell Nut Firm and you can find him at shell

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Speaker 2: nut law Firm dot com. Major case detective, former SWAT

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Speaker 2: twenty seven years on the force, James shell Knight, have

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Speaker 2: you ever seen anything like that where a person just

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Speaker 2: lies and lies and lies and they enjoy spinning the web.

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Speaker 2: That takes a lot of time and effort. I got

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Speaker 2: too much to do to engage in that type of

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Speaker 2: bizarre confab.

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Speaker 11: Well, it takes a lot of effort for me and you.

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Speaker 11: For him, he's enjoying it like he is relishing in this.

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Speaker 11: You know, if you look at the if you look

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Speaker 11: at the news broadcast where they showed him coming into

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Speaker 11: Alabama being transported in the car. Yeah, and one of

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Speaker 11: them he has a smile on his face. This is

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Speaker 11: his limelight. This is what he obsesses about, is what

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Speaker 11: he thinks. Well, super Bowl, Absolutely he's getting his wish

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Speaker 11: right here, and he's loving every second of it.

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Speaker 2: I'm just wondering back to you, Sheryl McCollum, does he

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Speaker 2: want to go back to Peru? In the Peruvian jail,

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Speaker 2: He's got it so good. He has unlimited conjugal visits.

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Speaker 2: He's had I think either one or two babies. He's

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Speaker 2: gotten married, he's dumped that wife for a quote younger woman. Seriously,

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Speaker 2: this is real. He gets drugs, he gets alcohol in

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Speaker 2: the Perusium prison.

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Speaker 9: Why not go that exactly? And you and I talked

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Speaker 9: about when he first landed in Alabama, his world was

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Speaker 9: going to be so different. He thought, Oh, I'm going

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Speaker 9: to come here and make a big show. And suddenly

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Speaker 9: he realizes, I have no girlfriends here, I'm not getting

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Speaker 9: special treatment, I'm not able to gamble, I'm not having

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Speaker 9: conjugal visits. I can't, you know, have the guards at

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Speaker 9: my beck and call. So he wants to go ahead

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Speaker 9: and plead because remember he originally pled not guilty. He

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Speaker 9: wants this plea deal so he can go back, go

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Speaker 9: back to the life that he enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: Even the lawyer attached to the case says, their credibility problems. Boy,

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Speaker 2: that's one way of putting it. Okay, take a listen

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Speaker 2: to Sam Brought with NBC.

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Speaker 4: Mister Kelly, representing the family, said, there's no doubt there

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Speaker 4: are credibility issues here, especially since Vanderslude has changed his

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Speaker 4: story at least seven times over the course of the

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Speaker 4: last couple of decades. However, what mister Kelly told me

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Speaker 4: was that this deal is contingent upon the FAI corroborating

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Speaker 4: the information that vander Slope provided, which is to say

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Speaker 4: they think it is legitimate.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: I did find it interesting that he also told me

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Speaker 4: they're no longer conducting a search for her remains what

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Speaker 4: was the point then of getting that information? Specifically, He

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Speaker 4: said that will all come to light after court, and

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Speaker 4: he is expecting Beth, her mother to speak following those proceedings.

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Speaker 2: To Carol Robinson, senior investigative reporter al dot com Alabama

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Speaker 2: dot com, do we know if there is some sort

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Speaker 2: of immunity deal in place, even including Aruba or Peru,

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Speaker 2: because we know after he murdered Natalie, he then went

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Speaker 2: on to murder Stephanie Tasciana Flores, who he also met

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Speaker 2: at a casino in Peru, and then we think had

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Speaker 2: sex with her and then killed her.

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Speaker 8: So according to my sources, there is no immunity as

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Speaker 8: part of the deal. And I've also been told and

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Speaker 8: I guess you won't really know until tomorrow, but I

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Speaker 8: don't know that he's going to stand up in court

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Speaker 8: and you know, tell what happened. I think it's going

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Speaker 8: to be something that may come out slowly in court filings.

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Speaker 8: But I don't expect and this can change, but I

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Speaker 8: don't expect him to stand up there in court tomorrow

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Speaker 8: and say this is what I did and how I

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Speaker 8: did it. I'd be very surprised if that happened, but

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Speaker 8: I've been surprised before. But as far as the community know,

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Speaker 8: according to my sources, Aruba could still charge him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it could have been devised that way.

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Speaker 2: James shelnot joining me Swatt major case turned lawyer. There

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Speaker 2: could be an agreement between US and Aruba, but you

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Speaker 2: can't get Aruba to do anything, so I doubt they've

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Speaker 2: entered into any type of an agreement for immunity. I

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Speaker 2: think that Carol Robinson is absolutely correct. So what that means,

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Speaker 2: let's just break it down very quickly. What that means

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Speaker 2: is his story that he's going to give tomorrow is

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Speaker 2: going to be carefully constructed so he avoids a murder

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Speaker 2: charge like she choked, she choked on a piece of

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Speaker 2: rip and died. It's going to be some story that

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Speaker 2: gets him off the hook.

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Speaker 11: Well, well partially I agree with that, but think about this.

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Speaker 11: You know, to be charged with a homicide in Aruba

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Speaker 11: or here, you don't have to have actually intended their death.

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Speaker 11: You can put them in a situation such as giving rehipnol,

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Speaker 11: which I think is likely what happened, but giving her

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Speaker 11: a hypnol and then her choking to death. Once you

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Speaker 11: put into play that course of action by giving her

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Speaker 11: a hypnol, if she died, if that is his story tomorrow,

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Speaker 11: in court or at some point after that, a Ruba

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Speaker 11: can still come back and charge him with Natalie's homicide.

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Speaker 2: Okay, SHERYLM. Collum, what do you think of that?

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Speaker 9: I think that's likely, and that's what I'm saying. I

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Speaker 9: think that Capoe brothers are on the hook. I think

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Speaker 9: he's on the hook. Whatever is said tomorrow that is

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Speaker 9: in play. They should immediately take action in a Ruba

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Speaker 9: because they have not. But now it's not just well

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Speaker 9: he was smoking pot so we can't take his word

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Speaker 9: for it. Well, he was in a car with somebody

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Speaker 9: we don't know. We can't take his word for it.

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Speaker 9: This is in a court of law. It's been accepted

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Speaker 9: and verified by the FBI. So Aruba needs to take action, period.

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Speaker 2: So let me ask you this, Carol Robinson, regardless of

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Speaker 2: how it comes out tomorrow, what do you believe the

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Speaker 2: story is going to be? Because I don't see your

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Speaker 2: Vanderslout ever telling the truth because number one, he never

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Speaker 2: has told the truth, and number two, telling the truth

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Speaker 2: what open him up to a murder charge in Ruba.

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Speaker 8: I still think he's gonna I think one of the

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Speaker 8: stories he's told along the way was that, you know,

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Speaker 8: she fell and hit her head. And I still believe

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Speaker 8: that that's going to be what he says happened, if

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Speaker 8: he doesn't just blame the whole thing on his dad,

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Speaker 8: because his dad is not here to defend himself.

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Speaker 2: But how could he blame it all on his dad?

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure that out. You know what, Joe Scott,

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Speaker 2: You've been from the get go. How could he blame

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Speaker 2: his dad for the death.

431
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 10: Well, he's already thrown his dad under the bus. With

432
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 10: you know the story. You know, I was reading the

433
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 10: supplement report, the affidavit that the FBI agent had written,

434
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 10: and you know, he says, well, yeah, dad, Dad took

435
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 10: her remains to this house and essentially buried her within

436
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 10: the house in that location. So he you know, he's

437
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 10: already he's already, you know, cross the rubicon. I guess

438
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 10: with that, we know that he's a scumback, all right,

439
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 10: he's willing to say anything about his dad. But here's

440
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 10: another perspective on this, I think, Nancy I find interesting.

441
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 10: As you know, it's very frustrating, you know, firsthand, going

442
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 10: down there to that place to try to get anything done.

443
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 10: Aruba is going to step into the spotlight tomorrow, more

444
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 10: so than ever before. I think It's one thing to

445
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 10: have FBI agent showing up down there, having to deal

446
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 10: with the consulate and all those sorts of things that

447
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 10: come along with an investigation, But now they're entering onto

448
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 10: the stage and they are going to come under intent scrutiny,

449
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 10: I think for really the first time, because this is

450
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 10: going this is entering into a US federal court. And

451
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 10: the one thing that does talk down there are tourist dollars.

452
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: You know, what. You're actually making my teeth hurt because

453
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: we went through all of this when she was first

454
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: kidnapped and murdered. In fact, tourism in Aruba went up

455
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: from the US. Did you know that, Joe Scott, I

456
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: screamed on air every night, I'm never going to Aruba.

457
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 2: I'm never going to Aruba, explained why they were all

458
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 2: kinds of protests, and tourism went up, Joe Scott, it

459
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: actually went up. I hate to dash your dreams.

460
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 10: Oh there's nothing dashed, but I have to say that

461
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 10: they're entering onto a big stage here.

462
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: You mean the Federal Court, And yes, I do. I

463
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: hope you're right. Cheryl McCollum. I don't think he's right.

464
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: I don't think that anyone is gonna not go to

465
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: a rub but just because we're not the only reason

466
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: I put one toe on Aruba with you and with

467
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: Beth is because I thought I could help Beth Holloway.

468
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: I thought I could help her, and I think we

469
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: did help her to a certain extent with some answers.

470
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: But you know, speaking of blaming him, blaming the father

471
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: who is now dead because he gave him a heart attack,

472
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,959
Speaker 2: Cheryl isn't it true that we learned when we were

473
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: in Aruba just recently that the judge, Judge Vandersloot, your

474
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: Vanderslut's father was at the casino with him the night

475
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: he met Natalie.

476
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 9: He was He's sitting diagonal from Natalie while they're sitting

477
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 9: there gambling. You can see your in Natalie, but he's

478
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 9: right across the table. Not only did he know his son,

479
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 9: he knew what he was doing. He was bankrolling a

480
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 9: lot of this gambling. And keep in mind, he was

481
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 9: seventeen and he would go to bars, he would go

482
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 9: to the casinos, and everybody at every hotel, every bartender

483
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 9: that we met, knew him. They knew his routine, they

484
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 9: knew his mo But I will say one thing, and

485
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 9: this was something when we were there and the police

486
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 9: showed up trying to arrest us, you said to that officer,

487
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 9: it has taken seventeen years and you've done nothing for Natalie,

488
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 9: but in seventeen minutes you want to arrest her mother.

489
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 9: I thought that was pretty impactful.

490
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: I was just trying to save you from getting arrested

491
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: because you were running from the scene. That said, I'm

492
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: never going to let you live that down. So what

493
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: do we think your van der Slout is going to say,

494
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: You might as well flip a coin because it's not

495
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: going to be the truth. But take a listen to

496
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: our friends at Fox Niece. This is what we think

497
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: he might say this time.

498
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 5: I've never before seen email sent by the prime suspect

499
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 5: in the unsolved two thousand and five disappearance of Natalie Holloway,

500
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 5: revealing a new piece of evidence in the case. Just

501
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: days two days after the disappearance, Jorm van der Slutt

502
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 5: wrote to a friend, quote, my dad got a boat

503
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 5: two days later. We went for a ride and took

504
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 5: care of things. That's all I'm going to say.

505
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: Well that's enough, so you know, bottom line, Cheryl, what

506
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: does that tell you again?

507
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 9: How many times does somebody get to confess to committee

508
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 9: murder and hiding a body. Even what Joe Scott was

509
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 9: saying a minute ago about him throwing his dad under

510
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 9: the bus, he did, but only after she was dead,

511
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 9: So again he only should be looked at for homicide.

512
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 9: And then the Capo brothers and his father by helping

513
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 9: him after the fact, they were with him.

514
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: We're learning a little bit more. Take a listener from

515
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: Callahan Waltz.

516
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 12: We have to understand that this was early on. We've

517
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 12: seen Jordan Vnislout change his story time and time again

518
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 12: over the course of many years, and even the claims

519
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 12: that he made and the reason why he's in America

520
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 12: right now for the extortion charges and claiming that he

521
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 12: was going to show the Holloway family where he had

522
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 12: buried her body. So this new evidence I hold a

523
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 12: lot of weight in this new letter to David g

524
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 12: this email that him and his father had dumped her

525
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 12: body at sea. But what's interesting is that Jordan Vannisluer

526
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 12: and his father didn't own a boat, so they would

527
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 12: have had to borrow a boat or rent one. And

528
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 12: if they can find that boat that they had borrowed

529
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 12: or rented, perhaps they can find more evidence to prove

530
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 12: that her body was dumped at sea and could eventually

531
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 12: lead to possibly the prosecution because again he's never been

532
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 12: charged with her murder.

533
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: No one has ever been charged.

534
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

535
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: Too, Doctor John Delatory joining me, renowned psychologist, Doctor Delatory.

536
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how Natalie's mother does it. I really

537
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: I don't, because even now I have nightmares, flashbacks, you

538
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: name it, after the murder of my fiance just before

539
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: a wedding. But I know what happened to him. I

540
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: know who murdered him. She has no idea whether Natalie's

541
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: remains are buried somewhere. I think about that lighthouse where

542
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: Chryl and Beth and I went when we were just

543
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: in Ruba looking for clues, on the far end of

544
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 2: the island. There is nothing there, but you know, a

545
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: pack of wild dogs, all starved, begging for food. It

546
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: was desolate, the wind was blowing. It was just a horrible,

547
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 2: horrible thought to think Natalie's bones were somewhere buried there.

548
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how she's gone on. I don't know

549
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: how she has managed to keep it together, doctor del Tory.

550
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: She does it because it's necessary. She does it because

551
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: she's her mother. And that's that's the gig. When you

552
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: sign up to be the mother or father of someone,

553
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: this is what you do, right This, this is this

554
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: is your entire reason for being and and and and

555
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: She's fueled by the love and the desire for justice

556
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 3: and the anger that she has for answer for questions

557
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: being unanswered. There's so much that's happening right that it's

558
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: that for her, it's necessary and and and I think

559
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: that's kind of where she needs to be in order

560
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: to keep going, because this would be exhausting and it

561
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: would be debilitating for anybody.

562
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: Oh and guys, if you could actually be around Beth,

563
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: she's so calm and methodical, and she'll tell you the story.

564
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: Remember Cheryl when she told us that she had been

565
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: just like out of her mind to get answers, running

566
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: all around the island, begging for help, not getting any

567
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: help from cops, from locals, from anybody's almost as if

568
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: they wanted to thwart her, not just refused to help her,

569
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: but actually hurt her. And then she got to the

570
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: story where she was actually going up to this little

571
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: vista where there was a tiny chapel about the size

572
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: of a kitchen, little bitty chapel on the top of

573
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: the hill. I think the name was Buena Vista Beautiful View,

574
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: and you could once you get to the top, you

575
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: look out through mountains it looks like onto the ocean.

576
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: And she couldn't take it one more minute. She asked

577
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 2: the cab driver to let her out at the foot

578
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: of this little mountain. She got out and she saw

579
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: a cross on the side of the road, and she

580
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: got out and knelt down in the dirt and started praying,

581
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: Please help me, God, I've got to find my daughter.

582
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: I've got to find my daughter. She saw another cross,

583
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: and she half crawled, half walked to the next cross

584
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: and the same thing. As it turned out, it was

585
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: one of these stations to the cross walks, and they

586
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: were like, I forgot that. She say, twelve or seventeen

587
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: crosses going up the side of the mountain, and she

588
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: would go to each one and throw herself on the

589
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: cross and beg and plead and cry and scream and

590
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: beat the earth. When she got to the top, she said,

591
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: this is Natalie's mother. She said. An overwhelming peace came

592
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 2: over her, and it felt like this was the first

593
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: grand soil on Aruba that was not evil. And she

594
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: knew at that moment that Natalie was dead. You remember that.

595
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 9: I remember that, and I'll tell you something else. You

596
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 9: and I sat with her in front of that chapel

597
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 9: for probably an hour, just not moving, not talking, just

598
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 9: being with her present.

599
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 7: In that moment.

600
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 9: And she turned to us at one point and she said,

601
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 9: I know y'all think I'm crazy, but I brought her

602
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 9: passport dustin case.

603
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: She said that for ten years after Natalie went missing,

604
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: she never left the house without Natalie's passport in case

605
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: she got the call anywhere in the world that Natalie

606
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 2: had been found. It's just been horrible, horrible thing for her,

607
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: and I hate to see her dashed tomorrow in court

608
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: when Vandersloute lies again listening our friends at WVTMI Cut

609
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: one eighteen.

610
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 6: Of course, vanderslow It has claimed to know where Holloway's

611
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 6: body was hidden before. He offered similar intel to Halloway's

612
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 6: mother in twenty ten in exchange for a quarter of

613
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 6: a million dollars. Ultimately, though his tips proved false and

614
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 6: he was charged with wirefraud. Former US attorney Jay Town

615
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 6: believes this new offer should come with more credibility. I

616
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 6: think those would be personal conversations with Holloway family where they.

617
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 3: Can at least understand why the Bureau and the prosecutors

618
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 3: believed this particular admission.

619
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: Carol Robinson, what are the particulars of tomorrow morning? How's

620
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: it going to go down?

621
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 8: Well, we don't really know all the details yet. We

622
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 8: just know that he will appear with his public defenders,

623
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 8: you know, in court at nine point thirty. We expect him, obviously,

624
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 8: to stand up and issue a guilty plea and be sentenced,

625
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 8: and I do not have any information on what that

626
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 8: sentence may.

627
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: Be, So everything is still shrouded in mystery. Irv Brandt,

628
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: let me just ask you this, RVF. You've been around

629
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: the world hunting down felons. Do you think there's any

630
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: hope that Aruba after tomorrow will prosecute him for Natalie's murder?

631
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 7: None?

632
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 8: Agreed?

633
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 7: What it's what Joe Scott saying earlier about putting the

634
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 7: pressure on Aruba. Aruba doesn't want pressure. If they bring

635
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 7: charges extra item, it's just going to keep it in

636
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 7: the news. They won't do it. There's no way they're

637
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 7: going to do it.

638
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: I thought maybe, or Brent, you might throw me a

639
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 2: bone here and let me think there's a chance he'll

640
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: get prosecuted for murder. But you're saying, no, it's never

641
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: going to happen, right, Is that what you're telling me?

642
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 7: That's that's exactly what I'm saying. He's going to be sentenced,

643
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 7: He's going to go back to Peru, and Ruba's going

644
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 7: to hope that he dies in prison in Peru and

645
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 7: then that's going to be the end of it.

646
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: We'll see about that. We'll see in court tomorrow morning. Goodbye.

647
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: It's not very often in my line of business that

648
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 2: I get to announce happy news. But I have happy news.

649
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: A happy first birthday to wonderful, brilliant, sweet baby Charlie,

650
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: the joy of his mom and dad's life, Kate and

651
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: Zach Abrams. In this world where we report, investigate, follow

652
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 2: criminal cases every day, I love this photo and I

653
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: love being able to say Happy first birthday, Baby Charlie.

654
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: You are so loved. Happy birthday.