WEBVTT - Reinventing Broadband for All 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.240 Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.440 I want to shift the discussion and now to communications 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.600 and telecoms because data is from the National Telecommunications and 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.600 Information Administration shows that roughly one in five US households 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.200 are not online, and that's especially in suburban and rural areas. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.479 So of course this is an important priority for the 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.960 Biden administration, which has earmarked forty two billion dollars in 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.880 grants to help kind of bridge this digital divide. But 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.000 it's also a major issue outside the United States. So 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.080 enter this space. Toronto Wireless, which has spent over a 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:43.559 decade developing a network to rival fiber with less physical infrastructure. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.479 We're going to novel way to direct wireless signals around obstacles. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.880 The company announcing today that it raised fifty million dollars 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.560 from Digital Alpha Advisors, a VC that focuses on digital infrastructure. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.080 And mind you, it was already valued last year at 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.880 over a billion dollars. So here we have with us 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.920 in the interactive broker studio is Basil all One. He 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.920 is the CEO of Toronto Wireless. Passil thank you so 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.360 much for joining us. In studio as well. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.200 Yeah, I know, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.040 Explain to us first why Toronto's technology is different. 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.480 Yeah, it's an important question because people as there's a 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.360 lot of wireless technology around your satellite. Of course, wireless, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.960 there's five G, there's Wi Fi, and Toronto actually started 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.520 more than a decade ago. As you noted, it's a 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:34.040 very deep tech company with the idea that home broadband 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.640 it's incredibly voracious. It takes about thirty to fifty times 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.480 more band with to serve a home than to serve 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.040 a mobile, So there had not been yet built a 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:49.520 wireless technology for home broadband. Instead, there were other technologies 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.960 being used that can kind of do the job. 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:53.680 But what people really. 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.240 Want, especially now, is they want a high speed connection, 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.280 low latency, and they wanted to rival fiber in terms 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.120 of performance, but they'd like to deliver it from a 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:02.880 wild's point of view. 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:03.320 So this is. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:09.000 A really deep dive rebuild of wireless technology with some 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.800 really advanced tricks to get better performance non line of 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.639 sight in both license and unlicensed spectrum. And if you're 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.640 familiar with that, that's a pretty interesting trick. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.200 I'll turn the microphone on and join the conversation. A 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.000 heavily regulated industry when it comes to that spectrum. But 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.560 explain the tech here, because the road to providing you know, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.080 wireless internet to homes is paved with the carcasses of 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.960 many a company. I was there when Starry launched its service, right, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.080 that was one that was promising in cities that believe 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.920 was line of sight though, Yes, so how do you 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.520 do this in a way that does it for a 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.240 cheaper does it cheaper than the wireless companies like T Mobile, 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.799 A T T and Verizon, but also does it without 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.960 the infrastructure of the large carrot telecom carriers. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.679 Yeah, it's of course it's a bit complicated, but it's 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.880 really fundamentally important right now because you know, digital divide 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:07.280 is so critical at the moment. 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.920 So look at it this way. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.519 In the world of spectrum, you know, you have really 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.880 high frequency spectrum, which is really good at high speeds 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.239 because it's high frequency, but it's line of sight and 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:24.400 it's also impacted by weather a very high frequencies. So 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.600 that technology is really good for speed, but it's not 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.640 so good because if you have to have a tower 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.520 within line of sight to every home, you're trying to 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.360 serve it's incredibly expensive because you have to have thousands 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.000 and thousands of towers in every city. On the other hand, 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.280 you have low frequency spectrum six hundred eight hundred makes 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.960 like the spectrum just sold between T Mobile and Comcast. 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:42.560 Today was announced that. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.040 Spectrum is incredibly good at distance, but it's not quite 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:46.600 as good at really high speeds. 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:47.960 You have to use a lot more spectrum. 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.760 Midband, right between two and seven gig hits, where we operate, 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.240 is kind of that sweet spot. You get non line 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.680 of sight like low frequency signals, travels nice around corners, 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.120 and but you also get very very good speeds. The 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.880 challenge with midband is it's all used for the mobile network, 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:09.560 and if they think about the economics of delivering bits 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:14.000 to customers, the mobile ARPU, a revenue per user is 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.760 about the same as you get for a home. Yet 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.600 to support a home you have to deliver thirty to 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.240 fifty times more bits in a given period of time. Yeah, 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.480 we stream a lot of Netflix, yeah right, right right, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.560 and on big screens, which really makes the difference, and 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.039 now on demand, which makes it even more difficult. So 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.359 the challenge has been how do you solve that problem. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.080 How do you get better spectral efficiency specifically, but also 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.119 can you use both licensed and unlicensed and still deliver 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.040 a reliable service? And that's basically the technology Toronto has 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.200 perfected over ten years. 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.080 I'm an obvious said this talk to about why use 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:49.520 unlicensed spectrum? 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:49.800 Right? 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.040 It's great, No, it's a really important question. The reason 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.320 is is that the licensed spectrum is often is pretty 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.520 quickly consumed by the mobile network in that sweet spot 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.600 of spectrum where you want to operate, and so you 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.360 have to decide how you're going to handle that. Either 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.240 you allocate more to fix, but you know you're not 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.800 going to get much money for that, or you can 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.719 avail yourself of unlicensed. The problem with unlicensed is that 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.160 at any moment in time, somebody else can start using 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.440 it as well, and then what happens to your signal 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.920 if somebody nearby starts transmitting in the same spectrum. And 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.560 the technology that Toronto really innovated here is the ability 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.839 to cancel that interference, basically not listen. It's a way 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:31.520 to think of it is and this is a really 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.200 good analogy. You're sitting in an auditor or in an 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.920 audit a groom full of people, and there's someone twenty 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:38.400 people a way that you want to listen to, and 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.919 people are talking pretty loud right next to you. We 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:46.040 have the ability in real time to silence, not jam, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.560 but just not listen, to mute from our point of 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.840 view all those signals that are really close and listen 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.560 to that distant signal, and we actually picked that signal up. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:58.120 That is a very unique technology requires CHIFS digital signal processing. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:05:59.960 It's a pretty interesting trick. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.920 So who are your customers and your potential customers? If 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.840 we think about rural areas, increasingly they're being served by 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:11.480 companies like Starlink that's satellite right band. Densely packed areas, 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.080 especially in the United States, can be served by wireline operators. 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.480 You are already have laid the cable and done the groundwork. 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:19.240 Exactly who are your customers? 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.920 Yeah, so another really good question, because what you learn 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.000 if you're in this business of delivering broadband is that 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.320 you need a toolkit. You don't need just a tool. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.080 It's like telling someone to build a house with a hammer. 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.120 You're saying, no, I'm going to. 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:33.159 Use the right tool for the job. 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.120 In the dense areas, as you note, oftentimes not always, 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.000 but oftentimes fiber is the right answer. It it's expensive 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.560 to do, but you have enough density to justify the economically. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:42.360 It makes sense. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.080 In the ultra remote where there's no infrastructure, satellite is 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.800 really the only choice, honestly because you you know, House 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.520 and Leo satellites are quite good for that. There's no 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.400 way to solve this problem, and it is a real 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.000 challenge for the country. Our country, but curls around the 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.039 world without solving it with multiple tools. And where we 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:03.760 come in is actually between and and so let's say 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.560 sparse urb and dense herb rural. It's very hard from 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.680 a capacity a pointing for the satellite to really support that. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.600 In mass it's very hard to get the economics out 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.960 of fiber. So we come in and help right there. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.240 And that's where where, And that's by the way, if 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:18.640 you look at it, it's a big part of the problem. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.000 One of the one more comment on that. You know, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.040 there's a lot of focus right now on the Infrastructure 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:24.840 and Jobs Act and the forty two point five billion 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.240 dollars you mentioned, but what's not as reported is that 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.600 in the US, which is kind of interesting, we have 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.280 about one hundred and thirty five million households. There's about 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.920 fifty million households that have exactly one choice that are 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.040 not one choice for internet service providers, that are not 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.080 considered unserved or underserved. So there's a there's a big 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:43.600 opportunity to help there as well. 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:45.880 So what is the equipment that you need? When I 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.680 got FiOS, the guy just came and ran a fiber 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.200 optic line from the basement up to my building, and 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.880 we have, you know, the Verizon modem. What's the equipment 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:54.280 that you need. 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.440 Yeah, it's almost it's almost the same. You have a 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.920 little device, although in our case you have a small 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.600 antenna about the size of us all notebook computer. It's flat, 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:03.840 so it's not like the size of a big satellite dish. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.640 It's pretty it's pretty small. And you put and that's 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.640 on the outside of your house pointing in the general 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.600 direction of a tower or a building where our receiver is. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.640 You run an Ethernet cable into your house and you're done. 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.640 That's it, and that's it. And then on the other side, 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.240 we of course grab all those signals and and connect 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:20.120 them to the Internet. 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.400 I believe you talked last year, maybe last March, about 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.480 the potential to maybe go public in twenty twenty three. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.200 Is that something that's still on the table to help 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:28.600 you grow. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.720 I think twenty twenty three is certainly not. But I 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.640 will say this is this company is interesting and one 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.720 of the reasons I'm enthused about it is that it's 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.760 it's the intersection of a quite large market globally and 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.200 very very deep technology difficult to reproduce. You know, a 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.240 lot of sweat equity has gone into this company, So 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.240 I think it does warrant potential for a public offering. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.160 And we're still you know, building the company and let's see. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:54.720 Yeah, I mean, you know, look, I mean it's it's 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.400 going to depend on the market, but it's also going 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.680 to depend on our progress. But right now it's looking 0:08:58.800 --> 0:08:59.200 quite good. 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.000 How much is this service per household? And does it 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.160 depend on how much usage you have? 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.360 Yeah, so it varies. It's not usage based generally. Our 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.120 customers of our one of our customers just launched a 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.679 service on our equipment that's offering two two hundred down 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.800 fifty up for fifty bucks. Other people are offering four 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.280 hundred made services. And now we're launching a gigabit platform 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.000 and that's going to launch n Q four, so you 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.360 can do gigabit down and in fact we just shipped 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.720 our first units that this week and as much as 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.280 five hundred megabits up, so it's a really strong service. 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.240 So you can get tiered services like you have on others. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.440 You have kind of a starter package. You can get 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:36.800 a little bit more, pay a little bit more of. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:37.240 That kind of thing. 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:37.920 So interesting. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:38.360 Thank you. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.319 Basil all One, he's the CEO of Toronto Wireless. He 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.439 joined us in the studio to talk about interesting wireless technology.