1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Well, Tim and I just were talking before the podcast 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: and we're like, damn it, we're doing the podcast for 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: the podcast, So we just decided to hop on and 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a really honest conversation about the chat Merimnesday, 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: because you and I haven't even fully formulated what we're 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: going to discuss today, but it's such an interesting topic 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 1: and I think we both have so many different things 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: to say that we're just gonna chat it out. 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm already getting dms from the listeners in the 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: same vein, like they're just wanting to contribute to the conversation. 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: So I'll read some of those two just because it's 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: really an interesting thing to think about. So why don't 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: we start with Okay, So on Wednesday, if you guys listened, 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: I recorded a podcast with Jordan Dan, who is a 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: somatic therapist and she has a really cool page on Instagram, 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: And I was telling Chip this a little bit, but 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: like she uses these pop culture events or like reality 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: TV shows to show us kind of like human behavior 20 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: from a psychology standpoint, which I think is really interesting 21 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: because you can hear all these psychological terms, you can 22 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: learn all these things about that. But if you don't 23 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: know how to apply them or like experience them, like 24 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: witness them in real life, it kind of goes up 25 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: in one ear out the other, you know. But when 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: she's using these references, you can connect the dots, and 27 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: I think that's such a good way to learn, or 28 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: it is for me. It's really interesting. So it's why 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: I talk about that I love watching these dating shows 30 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: in the first place, is because I'm doing the same 31 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: thing when I'm watching. But she and I had an 32 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: interesting conversation based on a post she had done about 33 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: the Love Is Line reunion. So again, like I said 34 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: on Wednesday, if you're watching that season, the last season 35 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: of Love is Blind, and you haven't made it to 36 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: the reunion yet, we will have spoilers in this podcast, 37 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: So don't listen yet. Go finish your show, come back 38 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: and listen and contribute to the conversation. But if you 39 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: didn't watch, like I know you didn't even watch this season, 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: I still think this has an interesting conversation. And it's 41 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: still because this is not the only time this has 42 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: happened in reality TV or a union in reality Yeah, 43 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: like it's just it's a situation. I think we can 44 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: all contribute in some way, shape or form to the conversation. 45 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: So we were watching the Love is Blind reunion and 46 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: Jordan did a post about this part of it. But Chris, 47 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: who was one of the guys on this season, he 48 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: was an idiot during the season, Like he just he 49 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: showed his like level of emotional maturity, and I think 50 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: some of his own insecurities did start to come out, 51 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: and he wasn't happy in his relationship for whatever reason. 52 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: I mean, that's for him to decide, but the way 53 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: he communicated that to his partner was really that, like 54 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: he basically tried to blame her for the reason he 55 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: wasn't happy in her body and essentially like saying, I'd 56 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: rather date someone who went to plates every day or 57 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: that's my typical norm or that's whatever, and I'm not 58 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: getting this in this relationship. So obviously he gave a 59 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: lot of hate, a lot of hate after that. You 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: can't talk about a woman's body that way. I mean, 61 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: she's a beautiful girl. Like it was just it was 62 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: very body shaming. And also like, don't. 63 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: They choose each other too? Like that's confusing to me. 64 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: Well, love is blind, you don't see them. 65 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: Oh, nevermind, yeah. 66 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: So, I mean, I think that's the other thing people 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: aren't taken into consideration is these people are in an 68 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: experiment where they're not seeing the person physically until the 69 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: big reveal, and I do think it would take your 70 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: mind a second to adjust, especially if they're not your 71 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: typical type not which is funny. 72 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: Which is funny to me because I feel like that's 73 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: exactly what the experiment is meant to expose, is that 74 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: we're so caught up in the physicality of people from 75 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: the get go that we miss the emotional depth of 76 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: a relationship that doesn't take that into consideration. And one 77 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: of the problems that I had with it because I 78 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: did watch the first season and it's fascinating and I 79 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: think it's a really fascinating idea, but once the show 80 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: was a hit, it seemed like they were just putting 81 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: and even the first season, everyone was, you know, fairly attractive. 82 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: I feel like it should be more of a mixed 83 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: bag because it really gets to the root of love 84 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: and it being blind. But you know, I think, you know, 85 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: they're also making television and they need hot people to 86 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: put on the poster. So but I think it's interesting 87 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 2: that this having not watched it arose because clearly that's 88 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: going to be an issue, which is why they don't 89 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: do it. 90 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this season, I will say in their defense, 91 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: this season, I felt like it had a bigger range 92 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: of what people looked like than previous seasons. So maybe 93 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: they were getting that feedback in multiple places because they 94 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: did do a better job. And part of the reason 95 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: Chris was getting so much hate is because he's just 96 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: a regular looking dude, you know, like he wasn't. He 97 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: wasn't this brad pit character. Not that that should mean 98 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: that you talk about anyone else's looks anyway, but like 99 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: people were kind of like, who the fuck do you 100 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: think you are? Like what it was? Yeah, So I 101 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: mean I think all of the since he got hate, 102 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: I see, and I think I have a little more 103 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: empathy maybe than other people, coming from an experience where 104 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: I got trolled and was blamed for all these things 105 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: or whatever. He actually did do something really shitty though, 106 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: like his response wasn't great. However, what happened at their 107 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: union really bothered me. And that's not because I want 108 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: to excuse what he did or how he handled this situation, 109 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: but knowing what I know about what it's like to 110 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: get hate on social media. I already knew this dude 111 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: of getting blasted, and like, I don't think people understand 112 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: what that's like. Like it isn't just like, oh, you 113 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: get made fun of and the couple different posts that 114 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: like we're seeing, it's like you're getting dmmed constantly with 115 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: people telling you how shitty you are. You wake up 116 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: to everyone telling you what a terrible fucking human you 117 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: are every second of the day, and it's incessant, like 118 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: it's non stop, and I don't care who you are, 119 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: that will take a toll on you. Then when you 120 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: get when you have to go back on to a 121 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: show like that, and also I don't care what you did, 122 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: it will get to you. Like unless you're a full 123 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: blown fucking narcissist who gets off on any sort of attention, 124 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: it's going to wear you down. So then you go 125 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: to the reunion where you have to be back out 126 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: there exposed, knowing you're gonna get shitted on. Like he 127 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: knew walking into that he was gonna get annihilated, but 128 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: he came in anyway and kind of like with hat 129 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: in hand, vibe like apologized multiple times with listening was 130 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: saying yes, I understand what I did. Visibly looked like 131 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: he was going to cry, throw up with completely red 132 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: and sweaty the whole time. So I'm sitting here going, Okay, 133 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: this is a moment. I mean, it sucks for him, 134 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: like he humiliated himself to learn, but he can learn, 135 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: he can grow, and hopefully he would never move or 136 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: he would move out of that and never act like 137 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: that again with someone. But the problem I had was 138 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: like when it was very obvious to me that of 139 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: what I just said, like he got it, he's apologizing, 140 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: he realizes, like he's facing the consequences of this, Like 141 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: they just kept going like they would not stop trying 142 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,559 Speaker 1: to beat the point in or humiliate him more, shame 143 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: him more. And so it became this thing where I 144 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: was like, why are they doing that? Because now it's 145 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: turning into this thing that he's probably not going to 146 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: grow as much ross because he's gonna have to shut 147 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: down to even be able to survive. Then it's like 148 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: it just sends someone off so far, like it doesn't 149 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: it's not a teachable moment like it at all. And 150 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: I don't know we've talked about this before. I always 151 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: think about like couple's therapy, and like, if we were 152 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: doing it in a productive way where you're seeing someone 153 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: else aside, you're learning, you're growing, you're apologizing, you're changing 154 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: your behavior, that's beneficial. If that would have been what 155 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: was happening here, it could have been beneficial forever. 156 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: Was everyoneling up on him? 157 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: Was it? 158 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: Like everyone mostly Nick Lache? Which was the hardest part 159 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: for the Oh, that's. 160 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: Probably the producer's trying. That's but that's probably also the 161 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: producer's trying to create drama and to be honest, like 162 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: they're lucky he showed up like a lesser person would 163 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: have been like, I'm not coming because I know what 164 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: you're gonna do. 165 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: You know, there's this other guy, Alex, who I actually 166 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: do think is like very narcissistic, and I'm like, he 167 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: should have been getting more shit, but he didn't get 168 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: very much at all. And then when he did get stuff, 169 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: all he did was defend, deny, never apologized, never took ownership. 170 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's the problem in child. Why are 171 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: we not going after that? Because a person sitting here 172 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: acknowledging the pain they caused and apologizing, that's different. You 173 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: gotta like, look at that. We all make mistakes, and 174 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: that's the part that really bothers me. So anyway, my 175 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: conversation with Jordan was interesting because when she posted about 176 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: that moment, I was like, thank you so much for 177 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: posting about this. No one is talking about this, And 178 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: when I was watching, I was thinking the same thing. 179 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: But the rest of her comments were what really startled 180 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: me about our society. And I think I know this, 181 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: but when I see it reiterated over and over and over, 182 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: I get so upset and scared in like stress, because 183 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is wild. This is what we do 184 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: or think or whatever. But everyone is so defending them 185 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: and like saying, no, Chris acted up, he should be 186 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: taken down. How do you defend the abuser? And you know, 187 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: all of these things, like labeling me, all these things. 188 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: Those were the responses to her to her post. 189 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: Because our post was viral. 190 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: It's so interesting to me because hearing you like even 191 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: talk about it all, like because I don't hate reality television, 192 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 2: I just don't watch it, and I wonder if it's 193 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: because I just don't have the capacity to put up 194 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: with that stuff. And I'm not like saying, like I 195 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: even recognize it. I'm recognizing it now just as topic 196 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: like to me, it is an unhealthy thing to have 197 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: to witness, I guess, and I know that a lot 198 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: of it is producers are trying. There's there's always the 199 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: gotcha moments. They're trying to make situations stressful so that 200 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: people say the wrong thing. And we live in a 201 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: time now like is it that it's reality television or 202 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: social media's fault. I don't know that it is. I 203 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: think that it's just this is the way that humans behave, 204 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: and now we're behaving in front of cameras constantly, so 205 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 2: we're just getting caught more. But before everything was on 206 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: television or on social media, if you said something gnarly 207 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 2: to somebody, you would either not work it out, or 208 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: you would work it out privately or maybe with some 209 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 2: friends or a therapists or whatever, you know, whoever you 210 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 2: needed in the situation. But you didn't have to work 211 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: it out in front of the world in an audience, 212 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: and particularly a world in an audience has no idea 213 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: anything about you where the. 214 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: Backstory of the situation are really going on. Because if 215 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: you think you know because of reality TV, you don't. 216 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: Right and look I'm sitting here as someone who has 217 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 2: a microphone in front of my mouth. I'm not reading 218 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: a script. It is very likely that I could say 219 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 2: something that might offend people, and that is I can 220 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: tell you for certainty that is never my mo is 221 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: to get on here and offend anybody. But that doesn't 222 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: mean that when we're just talking freely, we don't say 223 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,479 Speaker 2: things that might actually hurt people. And to not allow 224 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: everyone the opportunity to acknowledge that they've hurt somebody and 225 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: repair that relationship is dehumanizing, I think on both sides, 226 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 2: Like it makes you if you're doing that, if you're 227 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: forcing that upon somebody, I don't know what the right 228 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: verb there is, but if that's the way that you're 229 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: acting towards people and you're not giving them the grace 230 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: to apologize and grow and learn from a mistake that 231 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: they've made, you're cruel. Like that is, you are not human. 232 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: You are not acting as if you have a heart. 233 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: Because it also in first that you think you're perfect 234 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: and never made a mistaken. 235 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's kind of that And that was like 236 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: my biggest point with Jordan was it's so wild to 237 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: me to watch people be ostracized in these scenarios and 238 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: then be like public shaming. I don't know if you 239 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: heard this part in the podcast, but I was comparing 240 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: it to what I think about like back in the 241 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: day and either Roman times or like medieval pun whatever, 242 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: where they were like public hangings or the gladiators are 243 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: going and biting in the middle of the crowd and 244 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: everyone's cheering on someone dying. Like crazy to me, But 245 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: I don't really see this that differently, like maybe they're 246 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: not physically dying, although a lot of people have committed 247 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: suicide for these reasons. But I just don't understand how 248 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: people aren't grasping that their behavior in response when we're 249 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: doing this public shaming and humiliating and talking to people 250 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: without allowing repair, like you're talking about it's equally as bad, 251 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: Like how do you not see your own bad behavior 252 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: you're in response to bad behavior? Does that make sense? 253 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: Like you hating on someone and trying to tear them down, 254 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: especially if they're taking ownership and apologizing is equally as 255 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: bad to me as the offense that you're upset about, Like. 256 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: Really, the only person who has a right to respond 257 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 2: to an apology negatively is the person who has been harmed, 258 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: you know, by saying, hey, I hear you. This is 259 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: what it made me feel. Like, you know, I don't 260 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: think that it's necessary for someone who is not affected 261 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: by the offense to like come in and defend somebody 262 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: or just straight up be mean about it because they 263 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 2: want they want to prove that they're a better human 264 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: being than someone else. 265 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: That Okay, what you just said is a key point 266 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: to me, the what do you s approve you're better 267 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: than someone else? Because to me, I'm like, I understand 268 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: why it was a moment they needed to talk about 269 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: and just girl that he said this about of course 270 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: deserves an apology, and like I'm glad that they had 271 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: the moment publicly for her to express how it hurt her. 272 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: Things like that. I will say. What I didn't like 273 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: is they almost were doing and this is so the producer, 274 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: like you said, they were doing this thing where it 275 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: was like Jess was being lifted up to be this 276 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: powerful female this you know, blah blah blah woman hear 277 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,479 Speaker 1: me roar, which I was just like, this is exhausting 278 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: because it's like, of course I want her. 279 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: To have virtue signaling too. 280 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: Yes, but it's like Chris is apologizing, he's owning what 281 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: he did wrong. He's wishing you well, saying you deserve 282 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: the best, so we don't need to keep beating him 283 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: down with a hammer like till he's further in the ground, 284 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: and like, just like everyone, move on, you say your 285 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: piece whatever. And even Jess then launched into naming out 286 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: all these insecurities of his So I'm like, okay, so 287 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: now you're doing what you're mad at him for doing 288 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: to you on the show. Ohoh, like she was saying, basically, 289 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: she thought he was really insecure about his finances, so 290 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: he had to target her. And like she starts weighing 291 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: in on that publicly that's humiliating for him, not that 292 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: she didn't have the right to do that if that's 293 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: what she wants to do. I just don't see it 294 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: as any different than what they're getting mad at him about. 295 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: So it's just this weird, exhausting loop. And like you said, 296 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: with reality TV, I had to stop watching the house 297 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: live shows because I'm like, this is embarrassing. These are 298 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: like a grown adult women in their forties and fifties. 299 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: Printlege grown adult women. 300 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: Fighting and like what in knowing the role they're supposed 301 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: to play and doing these embarrassing things that like, why 302 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: are we highlighting that behavior as okay? Why are we 303 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: like exalting them and giving them a platform for behavior 304 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: that's actually highly embarrassing for adults to add life. 305 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 2: Right and making them richer At the same time, it's 306 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: a self fulfilling prophecy, and I feel like it's making 307 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: humanity worse. No one's learning the lessons from watching these shows. 308 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: In fact, I think it then spills over onto social 309 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: media and makes it worse. I think it's really interesting 310 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: that you have this conversation this week because I don't 311 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: know if you saw the news yesterday, but the Supreme 312 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: Court ruled in favor of a rule against a meta 313 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: and YouTube that social media is addictive and can cause 314 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: harm to kids. And it was just one case. It 315 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: was a group of mothers for I think it was 316 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 2: one kid that killed herself or something. But anyway, I 317 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: was reading an article in the New York Times about it. 318 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: You know, it's said that you know, it's not only 319 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: addictive for kids, it's addictive for humans. Because it sorry, 320 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: it's addictive for adults as well. Kids. Some kids aren't human. 321 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: It's addicted for adults as well because of the dopamine 322 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: hits that we get and one of like, there's several things. 323 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: There's obviously the admiration that you get when people like 324 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 2: your stuff or make great comments about you, but there's 325 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: also the addiction to the rage baiting that a lot 326 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 2: of people are just addicted and to go on and 327 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 2: fight with strangers on the internet. There's an addiction to them. 328 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: What a sad state that that is? 329 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: Quality, Yeah, And you know, it's like, it's one thing 330 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: if you're sitting in a television studio with a bunch 331 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: of your cast members who are just berating you for 332 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: some shitty thing that you said to your other cast member. 333 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 2: It's another thing when you have someone saying really shitty 334 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: things to you from across the internet when you don't 335 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: they could be sitting in prison for murder saying this 336 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 2: shit to you and wanting to fight with you, Like 337 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: you don't know anything about these people. They don't know 338 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: anything about you, but people are addicted to it. It's 339 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: crazy to me. 340 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: That makes so much sense to me because I still 341 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: to the day get people sitting on me for the 342 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: reality TV show that I was on and like I 343 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: got fake, accused of some affair I didn't have, and 344 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: people just run with it, right, And it's like they 345 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: would come at me literally threatening to kill me and 346 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: that telling me I should die. Thank god I had 347 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: the like support system I did and the therapy that 348 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: I had under my belt, or else I would have 349 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: just believed it. And like it still made me. I mean, 350 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: I say this all the time, and I think this 351 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: is probably maybe one of the first times in saying 352 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: this out loud, but it definitely made me want to die, 353 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: Like to be here. That period of time was one 354 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: of the darkest of my lives. And you do start 355 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: to question, like why am I even here because you 356 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: start to believe all this hate and like am I 357 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: that bad? Like whatever? I didn't even do it, like 358 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: I know any of the shit. And I still my 359 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: brain was getting so confused because so many people were 360 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: telling me who I was all day every day, and 361 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: these stories are getting right in papers and on social 362 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: media sites or whatever, as if they are fat and 363 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: they're not. But they don't do their research, like it 364 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. All they need is a source to 365 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: legally print it, yes, and then so it's just like anyway, 366 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: all of that is to say, I just think that 367 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: we're not really fully understanding how toxic that is. But 368 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: even on Jordan's posts, I commented thank you, and I 369 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: got trolled because I said it was hard to watch, 370 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: and then some lady goes, we'll turn it off, then, sweetie, 371 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: I mean so pissed, and so then I'm like, bitch, like, 372 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: of course I want to fight back. But I calmed 373 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: myselves down and I was like, hey boy, like a 374 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: dawned on me. By the way, this is Jordan's page 375 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: where she can post whatever she wants to post. I'm 376 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: following her as a fan of what she posts, and 377 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm commenting positively about what she posts. And you're gonna 378 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: have the audacity to come in here and tell me 379 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: that I'm the one who needs to do something different. No, like, 380 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: you're the misplace here, you know, right right? And I 381 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: send that back in some better way than I just said. 382 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: But then if they come back again. 383 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: The bait, Yeah, you took the bait. 384 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: It took the bait, and you just fucking can't that 385 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: it's so difficult as a human being, because it is infuriating. 386 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 2: It's infuriating, it is it. 387 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: Is, and I think we all care too, as much 388 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: as you don't want to care what people think about you, 389 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: especially if you're being misunderstood or mislabeled, or the voices 390 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: are just as loud as they could ever be. It 391 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: just is the most terrible feeling, and it's human nature 392 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: to want to defend yourself from that, like or explain 393 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: yourself or whatever. So I just can't see another thing 394 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: another way Chris could have handled it better, if I'm 395 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: being honest, like not to say that what he did 396 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: originally was not fucked up, but it's like like you're saying, 397 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: are you a human who's never made a mistake in 398 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: your life? Are you? No? And his just happened to 399 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: be on camera in front of millions of people, So like, 400 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: let's give him the chance to make it right. Then 401 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: you can decide. But he was trying to make it 402 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: right in my opinion, And I just don't think then 403 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: we need to keep beating someone down, Like we've got 404 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: to get a better grasp of human nature, learning how 405 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: to make repair with each other in allowing space for empathy, 406 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: grace and growth, like that is what we're all fucking 407 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: here for. And the whole way we're doing it now, 408 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: no one's going to evolve. 409 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, Otherwise it's an admission that you want terrible people 410 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 2: in the world, Like you want all these people to. 411 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: Be terrible, Like, but you're acting like a terrible person. 412 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: Right right, And maybe that's their cooping mechanism for being 413 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: a terrible person, Like misery does love company in. 414 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: This scenario didn't feel like that. It just felt like 415 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: everyone wanted to get on their high horse. Like I 416 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: felt like nick Lache was trying to go almost viral 417 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: and like handing it to him kind of you know, 418 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: like he'd can yeah. 419 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: Tough guy, Yeah, like tribal task, come. 420 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: On all back, a lot of things you here, Okay, 421 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: But like I just found it to be like he thought, oh, 422 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: and like producers were probably saying, this is the thing, 423 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: this is what everyone's gonna want to see, so go 424 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: at him your moment. Even Vanessa is Shay like puts 425 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: her hand on his leg at one point. I've read 426 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: that as like, Okay, that's enough, because it just was 427 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: too much. It was like not his place really either 428 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: as a host. 429 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: Well, and those shows are those are those reunions live 430 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: or they tape? Yeah, so I'm sure you know, he 431 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 2: was just like trying to give the producers as much 432 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 2: footage as he could. So it's like he just keeps 433 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: escalating it just you know, because who knows, maybe they 434 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: would only use one sentence of it and or not 435 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: use it at all. 436 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: But yeah, it felt like they used everything. 437 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 2: The television magic of it all makes it even worse 438 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 2: because they're trying to it's clickbait, you know. 439 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what I think, like we all have 440 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: to start because even if you start factoring in the 441 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: Taylor Frank Pall stuff that's going on right now and 442 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: the Bachelorette, and then I'm canceling and then whatever, Like 443 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: if anyone really needs to be held accountable right now, 444 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: I almost feel like it's the networks, the producers, Like 445 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: there's a reason they have to have psychiatrists on all 446 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: these shows. Now, there's a reason that you have to 447 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: do psycho vows before you're on a show like this, 448 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: or that you have to like we had to do 449 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: calls with a psychiatrist and then you have to know 450 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: you can call them at any point. I'm like, Okay, what. 451 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 2: Are we doing right? Like that should have been a 452 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: major red flag, Yes. 453 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: Like if that is the condition that you know there's 454 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: someone you can call because this is going to be 455 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: so bad. That's a problem. Like I just I'll also 456 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: just listen to Lisa Renna's book on audio tape because 457 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: I was curious and it was really insightful about kind 458 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: of the backstory of the Housewives. I'm going to take 459 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: it all with a grain of salt because obviously it's 460 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: her book and she can say whatever she wants and 461 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: spen it however she wants. But I feel like she 462 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: was really addressing that toxic nature of those shows and 463 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: how toxic it was for her even and why she 464 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: stayed on after she realized that, and what it did 465 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: to her as a human. And it was just really interesting. 466 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: And those are the things that people watching aren't considering, 467 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: and like you said, they just say, oh, well, you 468 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: sign up for it. 469 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: Have you seen the show. There's a scripted show called 470 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: I think it's called Unreal, and I believe that it 471 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 2: was created by someone who used to work on The Bachelor, 472 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: The Bachelorette. I think it was The Bachelor. Yeah, because 473 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: it's mostly women on the show, and it's a scripted 474 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: version of that, so you see all the behind the 475 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: scenes stuff, and you see like how many shrinks they 476 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 2: have on those shows because they're like assigned to certain contestants. 477 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: And not only are they there to support the contestants, 478 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 2: they're also there to exploit them because they know they can. 479 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 2: They can be in the producer's ears and be like, 480 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: you know, she's scared of the dark, why don't you 481 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: punish her by making her do this? It comes from 482 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 2: such an informed, fucked up place that you have to 483 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 2: believe that whoever wrote it witness shit like this, Like 484 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: just there there, there's one, and you know it's an 485 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 2: old show. I think they only did two seasons of it. 486 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 2: But like the girl one of the contestants, her father 487 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 2: is on his deathbed and she knows it, and he 488 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: dies before she has to like do a dinner date 489 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: or something. They know it's he's like in his last moments, 490 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 2: and they don't tell her, and then when they when 491 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 2: they finally tell her, she freaks out and it's all 492 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 2: on camera and she tries to run away, and it's 493 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: just so fucked up. Rather than pulling her and being like, hey, 494 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: we need to get you to the hospital, and. 495 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: They make you think they're your friend. The producer, right, 496 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: and you're with each other so much that you drop 497 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: your guard and like, I mean, I felt like, oh, 498 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: these these people have my back. Some of the producers 499 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: would hang out with us, remember, yeah, And it was 500 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: just like and then how do you throw me under 501 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: the bus? And they're like, it's easy. 502 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 2: Baby, Yeah, welcome to Hollywood, baby. 503 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 3: Yeah. 504 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: And when people say, Tom, are you used to say 505 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: to me when you signed up for I'm like, you 506 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: think I signed up for this? Excuse me? Let me 507 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: let me walk you back through what the actual conversation 508 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: was when I was asked to do this though, and 509 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: it was nothing like this. It was, Hey, this will 510 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: be good for your business. Hey, this is what needs 511 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: to happen. You won't even have to be on it 512 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: this much like I have editing control. We'll take care 513 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: of you, like we'll make sure you're all right whatever, 514 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: until it doesn't serve them and then they throw you 515 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: under the butt. If I had known that, yes, I've 516 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: watched a million reality shows, but like, did I know 517 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: that's how it worked? No, you really don't know. I 518 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: mean everyone can say of like, oh, you know what 519 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: it is, promise you it's different when you're. 520 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: In Also you like to your personal experience. You didn't 521 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 2: walk into a casting and ask to be like their 522 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: personal relationship that landed you on the show, So you 523 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: didn't feel like you needed to sleep with someone. Eye opened. 524 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: Why you know what's so funny is I feel was 525 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: so stressed about it. Like the producer, my main producer 526 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: would always say to me, why did you want to 527 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: view reality TV? Because I wouldn't want to talk about 528 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: so many different things because I was never going to 529 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 1: like put my family through any of that, Like they 530 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: didn't sign up for this, I did, you know. And 531 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: then with my clients, I was so protective of my 532 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: actual life that I had worked so hard for, even 533 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: though some of it did get destroyed because of what 534 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: happened or whatever. And it's like it was super unfair 535 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: ultimately because it had nothing to do with me or anything. 536 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: I just trusted the wrong people. And I think anyone 537 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: can do that, and especially if you're like me, Like 538 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: I had been working so hard to build something and 539 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: I knew something needed to give or shifts, and I 540 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: was in the season where it was like, Okay, just 541 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: say yes to things coming your way, you know, give 542 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: it a go. And I had turned down probably four. 543 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 3: Or five reality shows before this, So this is that 544 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 3: shows you like, Oh, I felt a lot safer in 545 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 3: this situation because of how it was presented to me 546 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 3: than I ever had, And I was like, you know what, 547 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 3: I'll give this a go for a second. Her out 548 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: to be terrible experience for me. Big life lessons obviously, 549 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 3: but it pisses me off when I see people punishing 550 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 3: people who sign up for this, even if it is 551 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 3: different than how I did it, because I just know 552 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: it's not. You never think you'll be the one to 553 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 3: be made into the villain. 554 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: Or else you wouldn't do it. 555 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: Nobody would be unless that is your personality. 556 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: To begin with, and you're like a supreme narcissist. That's 557 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: a thought, a path. Yeah, but most people aren't. 558 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: I'm curious if how your life would be different. Now, 559 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 2: I'm bringing this back to the topic at hand. Had 560 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: had your dignity been recognized and you had gotten the 561 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: apology that you deserved and you'd had sort of what 562 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: was the what's the Jordan mentioned something? She said, Oh, 563 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: the process of accountability, Like if those who hurt you 564 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: recognize their behavior, apologize, let you say your piece, and 565 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: how that might be different, how you might be front today, 566 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: if the scars would be different. I guess you know, 567 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 2: because you did. You were never afforded that. 568 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: And never I probably never will be, is the truth. 569 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: But well, I mean, yeah, I don't think you will. 570 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think because in my situation, I truly believe 571 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: there are just the reality that's out there about or 572 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: whatever is being pitched as reality is not what I experienced. 573 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: But I truly believe we'll never meet at the real place. 574 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say. 575 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying? Like we're never going 576 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: to see this through the same lens, because we obviously 577 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: be the world. 578 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: Two people's realities can be very different. 579 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: Yes, I feel like I tried to hear the other 580 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: person's reality multiple times and mine was never ever even 581 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: attempted to be heard an ounce of being heard. So 582 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: that is frustrating. And I think to your question, to 583 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: answer your question, the way my life would be different 584 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: is that there's still this piece of me that feels 585 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: stuck in that narrative and I don't want to be, 586 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: but I don't know how not to be in a way, 587 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: like I've done all the things you can do love, 588 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: cut the chords. I've done, release ceremonies, I've gone to therapy, 589 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: I've done all these things, and there's still this high 590 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: that I wish that I didn't have because it's never 591 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: been resolved or somewhat like the repair conversation have never 592 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: even been a possibility, and so I think it keeps 593 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: you a little bit stuck to some degree, even though 594 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: you know they say, like your work of letting go 595 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: is all on you, yes and no. In my situation, 596 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: there's some things that I just yeah, I'm just gonna 597 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: have to accept, and that's where I live. But yeah, 598 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: I feel for people who go through even even if 599 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 1: they had bad behavior on the show, which I actually didn't, 600 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: so that's more mine a little bit different, But like 601 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: if they had bad behavior, I feel for them even 602 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: if they can't make a public repair, And like the 603 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: lessons aren't obvious to people to where we can forgive 604 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: and move on because their life is never going to 605 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: be the same. And I'm lucky enough to like my 606 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: life with Set and Stone enough to where it didn't 607 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: impact like the bigger part of my career, you know, 608 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: just more of like the online stuff, but I don't 609 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: know what that with them. A lot of people like 610 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: leave their jobs to do these shows that you know, 611 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: like they take these massive risks that I'm like, wow, 612 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: now they're maybe working at like Walgreens or waiting table. Wow, 613 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: it's like they can't get hired, you know, like stuff 614 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: like that. Like it's way more damaging than people think. 615 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's because it's on television. People view 616 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: these people as celebrities and not just like normal people 617 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: who did a reality show. 618 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: People specifically are normal people. 619 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: So they have fans, So their fans perpetuate the anger 620 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 2: and the animosity and all the things, even if the 621 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: contestant on the show has moved on and accepted the 622 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 2: apology exactly. So Chris is going to have to deal 623 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 2: with this until the end of the time, you know, 624 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: until somebody worse. 625 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's marked in his life, like for 626 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: the rest of his life, Like there's no escaping it. 627 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: He'll always be that guy regardless of I mean, I 628 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: would hope he does something with it. And like, you know, 629 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: sometimes you can use your pain for purpose, like we 630 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: talk about, but it's tough in the public court of 631 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: opinion because like people make such snap judgments, and like 632 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: the way we're operating right now, which is why we're 633 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: even having this conversation, is there's no mistakes. If you 634 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 1: make a mistake, you're canceled, you're whatever. And that's just 635 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: like so unrealistic for human beings. And also like if 636 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: the situation was reversed and we shine the mirror on you, 637 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: what would it look like? 638 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: Right right? Yeah, I mean I think we blame we 639 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 2: blame the camera. You know, it's like we blame the camera. 640 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 2: We didn't, thankfully God, growing up as a kid before 641 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: we knew anything about the world. Like, I mean, there 642 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: are kids that are making mistakes on the internet right 643 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: now that will never get jobs or get into college. 644 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: And they're fucking kids. Man. I'm like, I know, kids 645 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: do dumb things, and it should be those they should 646 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: be celebrated as opportunities to learn, not as opportunities to 647 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 2: shame and humiliate. 648 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just think on a bigger scale, what 649 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: this is actually exposing isn't just the bad behavior of 650 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: the person on the show. It's exposing our inability as 651 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: adults to know how to do relationship. We don't know 652 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,959 Speaker 1: how to do repair, we don't know how to have 653 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: conversations where if someone look harm they can express themselves 654 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: be heard and the other you know, like we don't 655 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: know how to do that as a culture. And it's 656 00:33:53,280 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: showing what I want to try to shine a light 657 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: on because that's so much of the work I've done 658 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: in my personal life for so long, and it's like 659 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: really tough on a bigger scale to see it. And 660 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: I mean it starts with our government, with our people 661 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,959 Speaker 1: that are on TV with massive exposure. Like we all 662 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: just have some things to think about, I think, but 663 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 1: a lot of people just don't want to think about it, 664 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: so stay on your high horse whatever. But I just 665 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: think life and karma and whatever will end up coming 666 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: back to you. And I just am curious what life 667 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: would look like if we all started to kind of 668 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: evaluate the way we're treating each other on a bigger 669 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 1: scale and how we relate to each other and operate 670 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: in relationship. 671 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: I saw this thing the other day on the internet. 672 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: I follow a guy that I used to work with. 673 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: His name's Jason Flohm. He posted this yesterday and I 674 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 2: thought it was pretty insightful. I mean, I don't think 675 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: it's like one hundred percent on the nose, But it 676 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,959 Speaker 2: says the real reason you're tired all the time. It's 677 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: it's not your workload, it's your open loops, the text 678 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 2: you haven't answered, the apology you owe, the decisions you're avoiding, 679 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 2: the conversation you keep postponing. These running the background of 680 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: your mind all day, draining your battery. Close your loops, 681 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: watch your energy return. Mental clutter is more exhausting the 682 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 2: physical work will ever be. And it made me think, like, 683 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,879 Speaker 2: I'm a procrastinator and I hate it, but I am, 684 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 2: and I've never figured out how to not be. I 685 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: work well under pressure, but I also have trouble with confrontation. 686 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 2: I'm not a confrontational person, but I also know nothing 687 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: feels better than clearing the air. So like an apology, 688 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 2: like I am, I will apologize for something that I've done. 689 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: I'll own my mistakes. But this was a really nice reminder, 690 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 2: like it's the little things that become really big things. 691 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: And if you have an apology to somebody, it can 692 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: lift a lot of weight off of your back just 693 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: to get it over with. And you might not get 694 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: the outcome that you want, but at least you have 695 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: the peace of mind and you get your dignity back, 696 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,879 Speaker 2: like you hiding from an apology is to me can 697 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: heat you from the inside out? 698 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: Or is this the conversation even if you were harmed, 699 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: like even the conversation and a calm way. I think 700 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: I am all for all of that kind of resolution 701 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 1: and making things right with people. And I totally agree 702 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: with that statement of like the it actually waives ony 703 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: more to hold it in, So like the more you 704 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: can have the hard conversation, apologize if you need to 705 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: own your part, but also talk about your feelings or whatever, 706 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: like the way lighter you feel. I totally believe that 707 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: I was gonna read this DM I got from a 708 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: listener because I thought this was and it's very appropriate 709 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 1: for right now. But it's so spot on. But she said, 710 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm listening to the Wednesday podcast. Wouldn't it be far 711 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: more interesting and cathartic for the participants if the reunion 712 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: shows were mediated by or at least had present therapists. 713 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: You could guide them through a real conversation, provide some 714 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: real healing opportunities, and hold people accountable for their behavior, 715 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: both at the point of inflicting hurt through questionable behavior 716 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: and so that the quote unquote victim doesn't become the perpetrator, 717 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: but does get some vindication from the conversation. And that's 718 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: that's exactly what I was thinking. It's like Jess deserved 719 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: a moment to have say her piece and talk about 720 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: how it impacted her or sure, and then she became 721 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: the perpetrator by then launching into what he was insecure 722 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: about why he did that. Instead of them asking him, 723 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: they never said, hey, Chris, yes, what was driving you 724 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: to do this? They didn't give him the opportunity to 725 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: say any of that or own it. She just started 726 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: throwing him under the bus and like publicly humiliating him 727 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 1: of his with his insecurities. And it's like, so now 728 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: you're doing what he did to you well. 729 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 2: And it's it should never be on the victim just 730 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 2: to define the why of Chris's actions. Yeah, because she can't. 731 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 2: I mean, she's incapable of doing that. It's all assumptions. 732 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all assumptions exactly. Yeah. I just I don't know. 733 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: It was a really interesting, like I do feel like 734 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: people there's definitely the side of the Internet that is 735 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: still so angry, and we see all of these same 736 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: dynamics politically like Jordan's point is, nobody's even using critical 737 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: thinking anymore. They're just reacting all the time. And I've 738 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,919 Speaker 1: been saying that forever too. It's like what I think 739 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: these shows do is they give a platform to reaction 740 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 1: versus actual like adult human behavior, because adult human behavior 741 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 1: is not interesting TV. And I learned that the hard way. 742 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: But not interesting unless you're talk it. And that's the 743 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: truth like of those shows. So we all we have 744 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: to look at the bigger picture that's happening to us 745 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: and also realize what's happening to our brains as a viewer, 746 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,479 Speaker 1: Like you are being produced all the time, like they 747 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: cut things. Sure you can't like make someone into a 748 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: villain fully if they didn't say something, but like what 749 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: I learned, they'll cut things from different scenes to make 750 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: it look like it's a reaction happening right now that 751 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: never fucking happened. But like we don't really know what's 752 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: happening just because we're watching a show. There's editing, there's 753 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: all these things going on, And so I think it'd 754 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: be really interesting if we started using some critical thinking 755 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: and like actual relational skills when we're watching and observing, 756 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: Like I don't know. Would reality TV go away or 757 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: would we just have a more like high functioning audience, 758 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: Like I don't know, it would be very intriguing to 759 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: me to see. 760 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we need more comedic reality television, 761 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 2: Like there's just like something that would make us laugh. 762 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: You. I've been watching stand up shows. I watched the 763 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: funniest stand up comedian and I'm not she's married to. 764 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: Speaking of reality TV, Gabby Wendy who was on her 765 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: Bachelor and now she's a Levian but since she's dating, 766 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: we're married to this woman. Her name's like Robbie. Something 767 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: so funny, Like I heard delivery, Oh my God, and 768 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: it was about hard topics and a lot of people 769 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: might get offended by it, but I couldn't get offended 770 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: because it was so funny. 771 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 2: I think we all need to learn, we all need 772 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 2: a good laugh. My favorite reality show that I just 773 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 2: realized they made more episodes of It used to be 774 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 2: hosted by Shennon Doherty and the more recent episodes are 775 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: Tracy Morgan. It's Oh. It's called Scare Tactics and they 776 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: put people in really scary situations and scare the shit 777 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 2: out of them and it's so funny, like because some 778 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 2: of them are like all right, but it's just so funny. 779 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 2: It's so good. I laugh out loud. You should watch it. 780 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you look at anyway. I would love 781 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: to know you guys thoughts on this if you watched 782 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: The Love Is Bond Reunion and you felt the way 783 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: I did, or if people differently. I'd be interested to 784 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: hear it. You can always email us at the Edge 785 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: at velvet Sedge dot com. You can slide into my DMS. 786 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm at Velvet's Edge, Chip. 787 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 2: I'm at chip door. Should see H P D O 788 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 2: R S C H. 789 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: If you guys go on the weekends and you're living 790 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: on the edge, I hope you all have remember too. 791 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: A casual bye.