WEBVTT - Clay Travis Chats With Megyn Kelly 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:05.760 This is Wins and Losses with Clay Travis. Clay talks 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.879 with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:20.960 Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome and appreciate all of you 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.880 listening to us the Wins and Losses Podcast. I am 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:25.800 Clay Travis, and we are about to be joined by 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.720 Megan Kelly, who has had a really impressive media career. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.120 She also fled the law as as quickly, probably as 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.640 she could. I'm actually curious. I read quite a bit 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.920 about her practice of law and her most recent book. 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:40.479 But we're going to run through a bunch of different stories, 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.479 but beginning right off the top here. Megan, thanks for 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.800 joining us, and was leaving the practice of law the 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.120 best decision you ever made in your career? It was 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.840 definitely one of them. Um. Yeah, it wasn't that easy 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.600 at the time, but yes, in retrospect for sure. By 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:57.920 the way, thank you for having me. Um. So you 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.120 know how it is when you become a lawyer or 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.000 anything that requires a bunch of schooling, right, So it's 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.040 a lot of money and a lot of time. Your 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.960 ego gets attached to it. And I had worked my 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.080 tail off. I was at a big, well respected firm, 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.800 Jones Day, which I loved, and I was about to 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.960 make partner. I was there nine years, I practiced law 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.200 nine years and was about to make partner. And that 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.039 was a feather that I wanted in my cap. You know, 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.880 I felt that I had earned it, and I don't 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:28.959 remember my twenties because I was at the office of 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.120 the entire time, and I really felt like I should 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.840 stay long enough to get that feather. But then I 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:41.080 just got honest with myself and realized I was miserable. Miserable. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.880 You know. It's they say the law is a jealous mistress, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.399 and you know, my mistress is so needy. She was 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.640 calling constantly. She never gave me a weekend off, and 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.840 I wanted my mistress to go away. So finally I 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.440 did find, you know, the resolve to get out, and 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.840 I never looked back. You know. It's just the parts 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.280 of the practice of I do miss, but the overall 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.120 lifestyle I don't miss one bit. So I want to 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:07.920 kind of dive into that because we have a lot 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.000 of lawyers who listened to this show, and you hit 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.400 on several different interesting angles there that that I find 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:15.880 to be fascinating. And I want to start with the 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.520 first one. One of the pratfalls I would say of 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.440 having success is people look at you like you're crazy 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.400 when you decide to do something else. And I people 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.520 who kind of know my story and are listening. I 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.080 practiced law for a couple of years, and I remember 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.040 I started at twenty five. I had what I call 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.000 a quarter life crisis, and I was looking around the 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.079 office and I was like, oh my god, this could 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.880 be the next fifty years of my life being a litigator. 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:41.920 And I was like, this is not what I love. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.120 It's slow moving. I don't like the procedural aspects of 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.120 the law. I don't really enjoy writing over the same issues, 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.000 arguing about things that I don't really care about, frankly, 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.160 and so I ended up like writing was my escape, 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.120 writing about sports, which led into radio, which led into TV. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.800 For you, was there or a moment in your career 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.280 where you had sort of an epiphany and you thought 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.440 this is not for me, even though, like you said, 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.040 you're about to be partner. You're being very successful, You're 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.160 making a lot of money. What I called the golden 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.680 handcuffs very often of being a lawyer, where you can't 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.280 quite find the will to escape. What was it for 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.400 you that was that final impetus or epiphany or was 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.239 there one or was it a gradual process? Well, there 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.920 was there was a moment, an aha moment. But you know, 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.120 like you, I know, you had a middle class background, 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.000 and so did I and so and I put myself 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:35.920 through law school, so I had a bunch of debt 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:40.080 and I had never seen or even dreamed of money 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.200 like they were paying me. You know it was it 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.560 felt like a fortune and one that I could never 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.520 rebuild if I left the firm. I mean, just I 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.960 was so proud of myself, you know, for making good 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.920 and earning real money on my own, paying back my 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.280 law school debt, and I just thought, who am I 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.760 If I'm not Megan Kelly Esquire. Yes, I'm not sure 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.680 who I am or whether I could ever achieve this 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.040 level of success. And of course the firm pulled me 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.920 aside and kind of telegraphed, You'll never achieve this level 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.240 of success if you leave. You know, you're a great 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.120 guy who I love. A Jones pulled me aside. He 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.360 was in the issues and Appeals department, which is very 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.080 are you day, and he said MKA. He said, no 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.719 matter how good you are at whatever else you intend 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.039 to do, you will never be as good at that 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.920 as you are at the practice of law. You don't leave. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.800 And you know you've got really smart people saying things 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.000 like that to you. You think I shouldn't go like I. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.680 But with all that in mind, there was one night 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.600 I was in Chicago and I was driving home in 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:44.320 the Kennedy one night at two am, yet again, and 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.600 just tears were streaming down my face because I was exhausted. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.039 As you know, the practice of law is incredibly acrimonious. 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.760 I was a litigator, so you know, constant fighting, and 0:04:54.800 --> 0:05:00.279 it's really it's just snake pit fighting. Um. I was 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.160 just stressed out and I hadn't seen I'd missed funerals, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:08.839 I'd missed weddings, and I thought maybe I could just 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:10.960 go off the road and break a femur. Like if 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.400 I broke a femur, then I'd have to be in 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.479 the hospital for a while. It can't just be like 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:20.760 a rib because I'll have to go back. It's wild 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.479 that lawyers think like that, but you sometimes do start 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.599 to think, Man, if I just had an illness that 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.120 I know, I could get over but you know, like 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.719 it wasn't that bad, but I couldn't work for a 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.479 couple of weeks. Like, but when you start thinking if 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.520 I could break a leg, I could have a little 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.239 bit more time to myself, it's kind of a sign 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.919 that maybe you don't have the perfect work life balance 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.479 right right right, And it's like you finally get to 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.160 the point where you're like, I don't care anymore. I 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.080 went to visit my friend who worked in Boston as 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.960 a nurse at her around that time, and she had 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.000 no money, and we've got to high school together, we 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.400 were always close friends. And she was so happy. She 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.159 was living a crappy one bedroom walk up and we 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:04.960 went to the corner bar. We had a couple of 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.640 beers for like a buck each, you know, contrasted to 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.240 my life in Chicago with the big, fancy martiniz and 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.120 the steak dinners and the nice purse, you know, and 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.840 she was so happy, and I was so happy with her. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.920 It was just a reminder that I really didn't need 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.800 all those trappings at all. You know, they were just 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:28.159 window dressing around a life that I wasn't enjoying. And 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:29.760 so those two things kind of got me to the 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:31.640 point where I was like, all right, I gotta get out, 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.360 and now the big question is what the hell else 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.200 can I do? Yeah, so you mentioned the way that 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:39.960 you approached the law if you come from a middle 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.160 class background. I remember, as a second year summer associate, 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.160 I was working in downtown Nashville, where I grew up. 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.640 My dad was in another building. He was a lifelong 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.359 state employee, and I was making more money as a 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.440 summer associate at twenty three years old or whatever the 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.440 heck I was than he was at you know, sixty 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.760 three or four years old, approaching retirement age. And remember 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.120 him coming into that building and seeing the office and 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.080 everything else. And there are those trappings of success, right, 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.760 if you never have experienced them before, it can feel 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.280 a little bit constraining to even think, oh, I'm gonna 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:20.240 leave and try something else. But yet almost every lawyer 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.160 you talked to has a parachute plan, right. They have 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.880 something they would do if they weren't practicing law, and 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.120 so many of them get wrapped up. So you make 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.800 the decision to try something else, and you eventually are 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.240 going to get into working in journalism and doing reporting 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.520 and being on television what made you think that you 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.720 would be good at that? And did you have any 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.480 other things or aspirations that you also considered exploring when 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.440 you decided to leave. So I confess I had nothing 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:56.400 other than journalism that I thought about. I had in 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.520 high school. I had thought, perhaps I want to be 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.520 a journalist. I took one of those APT two tests. 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.480 You're one of those tests that says this is what 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.480 you should be, and it's that journalist, and I thought, okay, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.600 well that's interesting. I like to write, I like to read. Um, 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.320 I like to tell stories. But I kind of I 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.160 did like a couple of day internship with the All 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.640 of any Times Union, my local paper I'm from Albany, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.280 New York, and a couple of other small things. And 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.320 then I went to Syracuse, so not to the journalism school. 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.200 I couldn't get in there. Um. I went for policy 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.600 and I took a bunch of classes at Newhouse and 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.400 I liked it. But then I just got sidetracked with 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.280 the whole law thing. And so when I decided to 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.360 leave the law, it was a natural next step to consider. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.000 And what I realized was and I'm sure you and 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.160 a lot of your listeners who are lawyers understand this. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.520 I hadn't exactly been preparing for journalism, but I had, 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.600 in the way you see in the Karate kid with 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.400 the wax on and wax off, been learning skills that 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.800 would make me very good at the next profession if 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.080 as so long as I chose wisely. You know, there 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.920 are a lot of skills you learn in law school 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.160 and in the practice of law that are very transferable, uh, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.120 in helpful ways to other jobs. And one of the 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.880 things I loved through law school and as as a 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.760 litigator was getting up on my feet and making an argument. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.040 I loved that. I loved being on and having the 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.080 pressure of real people looking at me and in the 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.280 case of a judge testing me, uh, and the case 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.320 of a jury needing to be persuaded in easy to 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.199 understand terms and to see if I could do it, 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.040 you know. And in the law, you really do have 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.000 to have a foothold, at least in the facts. Unlike 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.480 journalism today, UM, you kind of have to stick with 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.600 the record. And that's the challenge, right. You might have 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.439 bad facts and you've got to find a way through them. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.920 I loved all that. I hated interrogatory. I hated the acrimony. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.520 I wasn't too keen on like the really nasty depositions. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.000 But I loved arguing in front of courts of appeal. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.040 I loved all the trials I did. It was like 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.600 that stuff, And so I just thought, all those skills 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.719 are going to translate for me in journal So when 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:05.480 I first started, I stunk, but I knew eventually I 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.320 could be good if I just kept practicing. When you 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.080 say you stunk, what does that mean? You know, for 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.040 people out there who haven't ever thought about the discipline 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.920 of being an on air reporter, did you go back 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.959 and watch yourself? What were you doing poorly? And how 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.640 did you get the opportunity to even find out that 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.040 you stunk? What did you have to do? And how 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.320 much I'm always fascinated by this. How much of a 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:28.840 pay cut? I know this is in your book, but 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.960 how much of a pay cut did you have to 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.760 take to move from nearly being a partner at one 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.680 of the elite law firms in the country to basically 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.199 starting all over again as a journalist. I mean it 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:45.079 was huge. I was approaching a seven figure deal um 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.760 and I took a job at Page seventeen thousand dollars 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.480 a year when I when I left, so it was 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.600 I mean, I wasn't making seven figures, so it would 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.640 have been a partner. But um, but there's a big 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.520 drop from several hundred thousand dollars a year your ish 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.439 to sev dollars a year that most people frankly wouldn't 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.840 take no matter what. That's right, and you really do 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.599 have to slam face first into the wall of unhappiness. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.680 I think to make that leap. At least that's what 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.320 it took for me, you know, you know, thinking about 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.440 harming yourself, like that's that's more than a red flag, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.720 you know, that's a five alarm fire kind of flag. Um. 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.520 So you know what happened with my evolution in terms 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.520 of like growing and getting my feet you know? Under 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.520 me was I had a buddy who, um, she was 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.040 in my guitar class, and she offered to help me 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.080 make a resume tape, which I had never even heard of. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.280 I didn't understand. I was like, don't I have just 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:41.760 have to tell him that I'm about to make partner 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.480 at a big law firm. She's like, no one's going 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.880 to give a damn about that. She was right, don't 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.720 even wanted to see a paper resume. They just wanted 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:52.240 to see a tape of you on camera delivering it 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:53.920 can be fake news, but just they just want to 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.360 see how you penetrate the lens. So she helped me 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.560 make it, and and the guy who shot the tape 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.319 for me agreed to hook me up with his professor 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.240 at this local college in Chicago, and that professor let 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:10.200 me audits his journalism class. So I went there every 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.360 Wednesday night after I left Jones Day, and I was 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.400 like the old lady at that point, I was like 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.000 one with all these you know, twenty nineteen year old 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.480 I was like, isn't learning fun? Kids? You know? And 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.160 and I was loving it. I'm learning all about this 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.240 new profession that I'm considering. And we'd have to go 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.840 down on the streets of Chicago. So there I'd be 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.480 on South Michigan Avenue in the blustery cold weather at 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:39.400 eight pm doing fake news reporting into this professor's sort 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.240 of real looking TV camera, and you couldn't stop. You 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.280 had to do a minute long report. You had to 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.319 nail it, you know, you couldn't have to. You have 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.400 to treat it like it was a live shot and 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.520 it was thrilling, and all I could think was this 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.640 is what I want to do, and please God, don't 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.240 let anyone from Jones Day by right now. So when 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:07.439 do you when do you actually confess to the partners 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.040 and the people that you worked for and with at 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.559 Jones Day that you were exploring in a serious way journalism, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.760 Like how far into the process did you get before 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.720 you were like, Hey, this is you know, not guitar 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.120 lessons that I'm just doing on the side. This is 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.200 something that that maybe I have an interest in. So 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.440 I kind of got discouraged. There. I was with my 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.400 resume tape, thinking okay, great, but I don't have a 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.480 single connection, you know, in news. I don't have anything 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.160 on my resume to suggest I could do news. You know. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.640 I just had that feeling that I'm sure a lot 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.640 of people get, which is just apathy and self doubt 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.240 and you know, the desire to stay in my couch. 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.200 And by the way, my therapist always says, the desire 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.000 to stay on one's couch couch should always be fought 0:13:55.040 --> 0:14:00.560 like that retreat is that it's almost always at And 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.360 one day I was watching Lifetime television, Lifetime television play 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.960 and they ran this movie, this you know, lifetime movie 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.880 called the Jessica Savage Story. And she was this amazing 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.240 journalist back in the late seventies eighties who was making 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.120 it in the man's industry, one of the only women. 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.000 She was like Jessica and Connie Chung and a young 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.480 Barbara Walters. And that was it, and it was a 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.840 great story. It ended in ruination, sadly, but as most 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.160 lifetime stories do, at least you didn't get murdered by 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.880 her husband, right. But I was inspired to try, so 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.160 I started cold calling news directors and every single one 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.360 was like, by you know, no one wanted to talk 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.160 to me. They didn't they didn't want to help me. 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.400 Theyn't want to give me a chance. And uh, Finally 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.440 I got smart and I decided to walk my tape 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:51.200 into the news station in dc um W j l 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.640 A and they had a cable channel that was like 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.120 their sister, and I thought, maybe they'll pop me on 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.040 that cable channel that like, not a lot of people 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.320 are watching. I got a shot there and I went in. 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.000 I met this guy, Bill Lord, who was the news 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.440 director for both and God bless that guy. He put 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.560 me on the air. So he started just just one 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.640 day a week, one day a week. And at that 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.400 point I had to disclose to Jones Day that I 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.560 was doing this because hey, they might see me and 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.680 be he could create an ethical conflict depending on what 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.160 I was reporting on UM. So he, you know, I 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.000 sort of said, it's just gonna be fun. I just 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.560 want to try it out. And they were a little leary, 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.760 but said okay, do it. And then I was doing 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.680 pretty well and the Lord said, well, how about you 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.800 do two days a week? So I did Saturdays and 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.680 Sundays and I did the law job the other days. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.560 And then they came to me and said, how about 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.440 you do another day of a week. And that would 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.680 have required me to go part time at Jones Day, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.000 and so I went. I spoke with a head of 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.160 general Litigation, a guy named Tim Cullen, who was so great, 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.280 and he said, Okay, I'm sad because this feels like 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.240 a trial separation and those usually lead to divorce. And 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.280 I said, Tim, you know it very well might, but 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.440 I gotta try. So he he let me stay at 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.360 Jones Day, you know, part time. UM. And then eventually 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.560 I decided it was time to make a full time leap. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.360 All right, so your how old? The first time you 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.480 go on air with I think it was w j 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.600 l A. You said, so that would have been two 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.680 thousand three, so I was thirty two. Okay, so you've 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.840 never really done television before you're thirty two years old. 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.120 You get to go on this, uh, this relatively small 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.880 station in Washington, d C. What did you do the 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.400 first time that you were on television? The very first 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.920 time I ever saw myself on television, it was taped, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.920 so I was clear like it was a taped piece. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.480 But what would you remember the time? Do you remember 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.240 the topic of the tape piece? Do you remember what 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.360 you reported? It was the very first thing I ever 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.600 did was on a hurricane, and it was Hurricane Isabelle 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.920 that had gone through Virginia, and I thought for sure, 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.200 I thought I was gonna be doing doing mostly legal stuff. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.960 Is that that had been my pitch? And I remember 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.640 calling Bill Lord. My first day was a Friday, and 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:02.520 I was like, probably don't need me, right because the 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.000 storms come in and you know you're not gonna need 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.639 a lawyer, legal expert type, And he goes, if you 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.880 don't already have rain boots and rain pants and rains 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:11.760 like that, you better go get up and get in here, 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:17.000 like oh no, And so it was a crazy night. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.919 I did a report on not that night, but the 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.000 next day on the hurricane, and it was fine. But 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.159 the first time I had to do a live shot 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.639 where it's like go, you know, like I'd practiced on 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.159 the streets of Chicago, was at the d. It was 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.399 the dullest airport and there was something going on with 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.720 the airport and security and they had a scare. You know. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.760 It's just back when we were still pretty close to 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.920 nine eleven and there was a scare every other day, um, 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.520 and and it was here in the headlights, you know, 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.840 and they're like you can hear the anchor toss to you. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.240 And really, I'm like, I don't know who the hell 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.360 I am? Who the hell am? I just say your name, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:56.240 say something, say something resembling anything. And I got through it, 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.359 and I thought I had been totally incomprehensible. When I 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.160 looked back at leader, it was okay. It wasn't hideous, 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.520 but it was terrifying. Be sure to catch live editions 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.280 about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.639 six am Eastern three am Pacific. I'm Clay Travis is 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.240 Wins and Losses. We're talking with Megan Kelly. So do 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.399 you go back, like an athlete and study your early 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.359 tapes in television to figure out what you're doing well? 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.119 Or did you find that you kind of got a 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.960 sense for how you were doing. What about the discipline 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.680 of television came to you and how did you get better? 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.239 I definitely went back and looked at the tapes, and 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.639 I think that's a must do, you know, because it 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.480 is a visual medium and you have to see or 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.800 whatever the mechanism is, listened to yourself and see what 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.400 works and what doesn't work. You know, you may think 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.560 you sound fine, when you go back and you watch yourself, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.320 you see a totally different product. So I did that 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.600 for years when I first started, you know, at w 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:58.440 j l A, and then and then at Fox News. 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.040 But the truth is that is a skill you only 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:06.600 develop by doing it over and over and over. You know, 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.880 It's like typing, and you you cannot type seventy words 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.800 a minute before you've done and so on. So I 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.320 would just say yes to everything, which I think every 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.400 young person in a job should do. I mean, I 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.080 I always tell the young people who are asking me 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.679 for advice, you know, if they want you to empty 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.920 the trash, empty the trash, like say yes to every 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.720 weekend ship to working on Christmas. You know, have some gumption, 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.560 go after it, you know, don't don't be ah, I'm 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.720 above this kind of person. And that leads to opportunity, 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.240 you know, because the sad truth is it will set 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.879 you apart from of your competition, um so and and 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.200 and it just happened to be and in my profession, 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.080 as it is in most that that makes you better. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.359 You know, you get your ten thou hours in and 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:55.120 before you know it, you're doing it almost effortlessly. What 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.520 I have found is, and this is probably a legal 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.320 background as well, what I get to do now is 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.800 make argue months. But instead of having to take as 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.800 you said earlier, sometimes you're on the wrong side of 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.919 an argument. You're like, boy, I'd rather have the facts 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.520 of that other side now, you know, with the position 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:10.919