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Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Travis. Clay talks

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Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome and appreciate all of you

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Speaker 1: listening to us the Wins and Losses Podcast. I am

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Speaker 1: Clay Travis, and we are about to be joined by

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Speaker 1: Megan Kelly, who has had a really impressive media career.

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Speaker 1: She also fled the law as as quickly, probably as

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Speaker 1: she could. I'm actually curious. I read quite a bit

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Speaker 1: about her practice of law and her most recent book.

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Speaker 1: But we're going to run through a bunch of different stories,

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Speaker 1: but beginning right off the top here. Megan, thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining us, and was leaving the practice of law the

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Speaker 1: best decision you ever made in your career? It was

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Speaker 1: definitely one of them. Um. Yeah, it wasn't that easy

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Speaker 1: at the time, but yes, in retrospect for sure. By

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Speaker 1: the way, thank you for having me. Um. So you

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Speaker 1: know how it is when you become a lawyer or

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Speaker 1: anything that requires a bunch of schooling, right, So it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of money and a lot of time. Your

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Speaker 1: ego gets attached to it. And I had worked my

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Speaker 1: tail off. I was at a big, well respected firm,

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Speaker 1: Jones Day, which I loved, and I was about to

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Speaker 1: make partner. I was there nine years, I practiced law

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Speaker 1: nine years and was about to make partner. And that

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Speaker 1: was a feather that I wanted in my cap. You know,

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Speaker 1: I felt that I had earned it, and I don't

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Speaker 1: remember my twenties because I was at the office of

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Speaker 1: the entire time, and I really felt like I should

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Speaker 1: stay long enough to get that feather. But then I

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Speaker 1: just got honest with myself and realized I was miserable. Miserable.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's they say the law is a jealous mistress,

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Speaker 1: and you know, my mistress is so needy. She was

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Speaker 1: calling constantly. She never gave me a weekend off, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted my mistress to go away. So finally I

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Speaker 1: did find, you know, the resolve to get out, and

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Speaker 1: I never looked back. You know. It's just the parts

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Speaker 1: of the practice of I do miss, but the overall

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Speaker 1: lifestyle I don't miss one bit. So I want to

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Speaker 1: kind of dive into that because we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of lawyers who listened to this show, and you hit

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Speaker 1: on several different interesting angles there that that I find

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Speaker 1: to be fascinating. And I want to start with the

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Speaker 1: first one. One of the pratfalls I would say of

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Speaker 1: having success is people look at you like you're crazy

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Speaker 1: when you decide to do something else. And I people

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Speaker 1: who kind of know my story and are listening. I

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Speaker 1: practiced law for a couple of years, and I remember

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Speaker 1: I started at twenty five. I had what I call

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Speaker 1: a quarter life crisis, and I was looking around the

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Speaker 1: office and I was like, oh my god, this could

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Speaker 1: be the next fifty years of my life being a litigator.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, this is not what I love.

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Speaker 1: It's slow moving. I don't like the procedural aspects of

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Speaker 1: the law. I don't really enjoy writing over the same issues,

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Speaker 1: arguing about things that I don't really care about, frankly,

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Speaker 1: and so I ended up like writing was my escape,

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Speaker 1: writing about sports, which led into radio, which led into TV.

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Speaker 1: For you, was there or a moment in your career

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Speaker 1: where you had sort of an epiphany and you thought

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Speaker 1: this is not for me, even though, like you said,

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Speaker 1: you're about to be partner. You're being very successful, You're

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Speaker 1: making a lot of money. What I called the golden

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Speaker 1: handcuffs very often of being a lawyer, where you can't

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Speaker 1: quite find the will to escape. What was it for

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Speaker 1: you that was that final impetus or epiphany or was

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Speaker 1: there one or was it a gradual process? Well, there

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Speaker 1: was there was a moment, an aha moment. But you know,

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Speaker 1: like you, I know, you had a middle class background,

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Speaker 1: and so did I and so and I put myself

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Speaker 1: through law school, so I had a bunch of debt

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Speaker 1: and I had never seen or even dreamed of money

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Speaker 1: like they were paying me. You know it was it

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Speaker 1: felt like a fortune and one that I could never

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Speaker 1: rebuild if I left the firm. I mean, just I

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Speaker 1: was so proud of myself, you know, for making good

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Speaker 1: and earning real money on my own, paying back my

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Speaker 1: law school debt, and I just thought, who am I

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Speaker 1: If I'm not Megan Kelly Esquire. Yes, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: who I am or whether I could ever achieve this

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Speaker 1: level of success. And of course the firm pulled me

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Speaker 1: aside and kind of telegraphed, You'll never achieve this level

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Speaker 1: of success if you leave. You know, you're a great

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Speaker 1: guy who I love. A Jones pulled me aside. He

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Speaker 1: was in the issues and Appeals department, which is very

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Speaker 1: are you day, and he said MKA. He said, no

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Speaker 1: matter how good you are at whatever else you intend

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Speaker 1: to do, you will never be as good at that

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Speaker 1: as you are at the practice of law. You don't leave.

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Speaker 1: And you know you've got really smart people saying things

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Speaker 1: like that to you. You think I shouldn't go like I.

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Speaker 1: But with all that in mind, there was one night

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Speaker 1: I was in Chicago and I was driving home in

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy one night at two am, yet again, and

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Speaker 1: just tears were streaming down my face because I was exhausted.

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Speaker 1: As you know, the practice of law is incredibly acrimonious.

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Speaker 1: I was a litigator, so you know, constant fighting, and

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Speaker 1: it's really it's just snake pit fighting. Um. I was

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Speaker 1: just stressed out and I hadn't seen I'd missed funerals,

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Speaker 1: I'd missed weddings, and I thought maybe I could just

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Speaker 1: go off the road and break a femur. Like if

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Speaker 1: I broke a femur, then I'd have to be in

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Speaker 1: the hospital for a while. It can't just be like

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Speaker 1: a rib because I'll have to go back. It's wild

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Speaker 1: that lawyers think like that, but you sometimes do start

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Speaker 1: to think, Man, if I just had an illness that

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Speaker 1: I know, I could get over but you know, like

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad, but I couldn't work for a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Like, but when you start thinking if

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Speaker 1: I could break a leg, I could have a little

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Speaker 1: bit more time to myself, it's kind of a sign

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Speaker 1: that maybe you don't have the perfect work life balance

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Speaker 1: right right right, And it's like you finally get to

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Speaker 1: the point where you're like, I don't care anymore. I

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Speaker 1: went to visit my friend who worked in Boston as

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Speaker 1: a nurse at her around that time, and she had

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Speaker 1: no money, and we've got to high school together, we

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Speaker 1: were always close friends. And she was so happy. She

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Speaker 1: was living a crappy one bedroom walk up and we

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Speaker 1: went to the corner bar. We had a couple of

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Speaker 1: beers for like a buck each, you know, contrasted to

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Speaker 1: my life in Chicago with the big, fancy martiniz and

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Speaker 1: the steak dinners and the nice purse, you know, and

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Speaker 1: she was so happy, and I was so happy with her.

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Speaker 1: It was just a reminder that I really didn't need

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Speaker 1: all those trappings at all. You know, they were just

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Speaker 1: window dressing around a life that I wasn't enjoying. And

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Speaker 1: so those two things kind of got me to the

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Speaker 1: point where I was like, all right, I gotta get out,

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Speaker 1: and now the big question is what the hell else

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Speaker 1: can I do? Yeah, so you mentioned the way that

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Speaker 1: you approached the law if you come from a middle

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Speaker 1: class background. I remember, as a second year summer associate,

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Speaker 1: I was working in downtown Nashville, where I grew up.

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Speaker 1: My dad was in another building. He was a lifelong

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Speaker 1: state employee, and I was making more money as a

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Speaker 1: summer associate at twenty three years old or whatever the

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Speaker 1: heck I was than he was at you know, sixty

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Speaker 1: three or four years old, approaching retirement age. And remember

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Speaker 1: him coming into that building and seeing the office and

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Speaker 1: everything else. And there are those trappings of success, right,

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Speaker 1: if you never have experienced them before, it can feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit constraining to even think, oh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: leave and try something else. But yet almost every lawyer

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Speaker 1: you talked to has a parachute plan, right. They have

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Speaker 1: something they would do if they weren't practicing law, and

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Speaker 1: so many of them get wrapped up. So you make

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Speaker 1: the decision to try something else, and you eventually are

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Speaker 1: going to get into working in journalism and doing reporting

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Speaker 1: and being on television what made you think that you

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Speaker 1: would be good at that? And did you have any

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Speaker 1: other things or aspirations that you also considered exploring when

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Speaker 1: you decided to leave. So I confess I had nothing

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Speaker 1: other than journalism that I thought about. I had in

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Speaker 1: high school. I had thought, perhaps I want to be

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Speaker 1: a journalist. I took one of those APT two tests.

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Speaker 1: You're one of those tests that says this is what

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Speaker 1: you should be, and it's that journalist, and I thought, okay,

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Speaker 1: well that's interesting. I like to write, I like to read. Um,

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Speaker 1: I like to tell stories. But I kind of I

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Speaker 1: did like a couple of day internship with the All

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Speaker 1: of any Times Union, my local paper I'm from Albany,

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Speaker 1: New York, and a couple of other small things. And

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Speaker 1: then I went to Syracuse, so not to the journalism school.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get in there. Um. I went for policy

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Speaker 1: and I took a bunch of classes at Newhouse and

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Speaker 1: I liked it. But then I just got sidetracked with

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Speaker 1: the whole law thing. And so when I decided to

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Speaker 1: leave the law, it was a natural next step to consider.

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Speaker 1: And what I realized was and I'm sure you and

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Speaker 1: a lot of your listeners who are lawyers understand this.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't exactly been preparing for journalism, but I had,

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Speaker 1: in the way you see in the Karate kid with

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Speaker 1: the wax on and wax off, been learning skills that

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Speaker 1: would make me very good at the next profession if

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Speaker 1: as so long as I chose wisely. You know, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of skills you learn in law school

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Speaker 1: and in the practice of law that are very transferable, uh,

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Speaker 1: in helpful ways to other jobs. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things I loved through law school and as as a

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Speaker 1: litigator was getting up on my feet and making an argument.

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Speaker 1: I loved that. I loved being on and having the

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Speaker 1: pressure of real people looking at me and in the

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Speaker 1: case of a judge testing me, uh, and the case

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Speaker 1: of a jury needing to be persuaded in easy to

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Speaker 1: understand terms and to see if I could do it,

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Speaker 1: you know. And in the law, you really do have

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Speaker 1: to have a foothold, at least in the facts. Unlike

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Speaker 1: journalism today, UM, you kind of have to stick with

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Speaker 1: the record. And that's the challenge, right. You might have

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Speaker 1: bad facts and you've got to find a way through them.

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Speaker 1: I loved all that. I hated interrogatory. I hated the acrimony.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't too keen on like the really nasty depositions.

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Speaker 1: But I loved arguing in front of courts of appeal.

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Speaker 1: I loved all the trials I did. It was like

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Speaker 1: that stuff, And so I just thought, all those skills

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Speaker 1: are going to translate for me in journal So when

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Speaker 1: I first started, I stunk, but I knew eventually I

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Speaker 1: could be good if I just kept practicing. When you

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Speaker 1: say you stunk, what does that mean? You know, for

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Speaker 1: people out there who haven't ever thought about the discipline

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Speaker 1: of being an on air reporter, did you go back

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Speaker 1: and watch yourself? What were you doing poorly? And how

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Speaker 1: did you get the opportunity to even find out that

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Speaker 1: you stunk? What did you have to do? And how

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Speaker 1: much I'm always fascinated by this. How much of a

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Speaker 1: pay cut? I know this is in your book, but

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Speaker 1: how much of a pay cut did you have to

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Speaker 1: take to move from nearly being a partner at one

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Speaker 1: of the elite law firms in the country to basically

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Speaker 1: starting all over again as a journalist. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was huge. I was approaching a seven figure deal um

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Speaker 1: and I took a job at Page seventeen thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a year when I when I left, so it was

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't making seven figures, so it would

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Speaker 1: have been a partner. But um, but there's a big

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Speaker 1: drop from several hundred thousand dollars a year your ish

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Speaker 1: to sev dollars a year that most people frankly wouldn't

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Speaker 1: take no matter what. That's right, and you really do

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Speaker 1: have to slam face first into the wall of unhappiness.

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Speaker 1: I think to make that leap. At least that's what

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Speaker 1: it took for me, you know, you know, thinking about

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Speaker 1: harming yourself, like that's that's more than a red flag,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a five alarm fire kind of flag. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you know what happened with my evolution in terms

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Speaker 1: of like growing and getting my feet you know? Under

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Speaker 1: me was I had a buddy who, um, she was

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Speaker 1: in my guitar class, and she offered to help me

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Speaker 1: make a resume tape, which I had never even heard of.

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand. I was like, don't I have just

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Speaker 1: have to tell him that I'm about to make partner

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Speaker 1: at a big law firm. She's like, no one's going

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Speaker 1: to give a damn about that. She was right, don't

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Speaker 1: even wanted to see a paper resume. They just wanted

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Speaker 1: to see a tape of you on camera delivering it

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Speaker 1: can be fake news, but just they just want to

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Speaker 1: see how you penetrate the lens. So she helped me

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Speaker 1: make it, and and the guy who shot the tape

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Speaker 1: for me agreed to hook me up with his professor

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Speaker 1: at this local college in Chicago, and that professor let

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Speaker 1: me audits his journalism class. So I went there every

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Speaker 1: Wednesday night after I left Jones Day, and I was

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Speaker 1: like the old lady at that point, I was like

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Speaker 1: one with all these you know, twenty nineteen year old

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Speaker 1: I was like, isn't learning fun? Kids? You know? And

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Speaker 1: and I was loving it. I'm learning all about this

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Speaker 1: new profession that I'm considering. And we'd have to go

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Speaker 1: down on the streets of Chicago. So there I'd be

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Speaker 1: on South Michigan Avenue in the blustery cold weather at

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Speaker 1: eight pm doing fake news reporting into this professor's sort

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Speaker 1: of real looking TV camera, and you couldn't stop. You

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Speaker 1: had to do a minute long report. You had to

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Speaker 1: nail it, you know, you couldn't have to. You have

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Speaker 1: to treat it like it was a live shot and

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Speaker 1: it was thrilling, and all I could think was this

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Speaker 1: is what I want to do, and please God, don't

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Speaker 1: let anyone from Jones Day by right now. So when

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Speaker 1: do you when do you actually confess to the partners

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Speaker 1: and the people that you worked for and with at

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Speaker 1: Jones Day that you were exploring in a serious way journalism,

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Speaker 1: Like how far into the process did you get before

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Speaker 1: you were like, Hey, this is you know, not guitar

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Speaker 1: lessons that I'm just doing on the side. This is

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Speaker 1: something that that maybe I have an interest in. So

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Speaker 1: I kind of got discouraged. There. I was with my

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Speaker 1: resume tape, thinking okay, great, but I don't have a

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Speaker 1: single connection, you know, in news. I don't have anything

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Speaker 1: on my resume to suggest I could do news. You know.

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Speaker 1: I just had that feeling that I'm sure a lot

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Speaker 1: of people get, which is just apathy and self doubt

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Speaker 1: and you know, the desire to stay in my couch.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, my therapist always says, the desire

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Speaker 1: to stay on one's couch couch should always be fought

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Speaker 1: like that retreat is that it's almost always at And

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Speaker 1: one day I was watching Lifetime television, Lifetime television play

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Speaker 1: and they ran this movie, this you know, lifetime movie

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Speaker 1: called the Jessica Savage Story. And she was this amazing

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Speaker 1: journalist back in the late seventies eighties who was making

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Speaker 1: it in the man's industry, one of the only women.

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Speaker 1: She was like Jessica and Connie Chung and a young

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Speaker 1: Barbara Walters. And that was it, and it was a

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Speaker 1: great story. It ended in ruination, sadly, but as most

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Speaker 1: lifetime stories do, at least you didn't get murdered by

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Speaker 1: her husband, right. But I was inspired to try, so

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Speaker 1: I started cold calling news directors and every single one

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Speaker 1: was like, by you know, no one wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to me. They didn't they didn't want to help me.

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Speaker 1: Theyn't want to give me a chance. And uh, Finally

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Speaker 1: I got smart and I decided to walk my tape

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Speaker 1: into the news station in dc um W j l

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Speaker 1: A and they had a cable channel that was like

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Speaker 1: their sister, and I thought, maybe they'll pop me on

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Speaker 1: that cable channel that like, not a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are watching. I got a shot there and I went in.

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Speaker 1: I met this guy, Bill Lord, who was the news

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Speaker 1: director for both and God bless that guy. He put

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Speaker 1: me on the air. So he started just just one

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Speaker 1: day a week, one day a week. And at that

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Speaker 1: point I had to disclose to Jones Day that I

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Speaker 1: was doing this because hey, they might see me and

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Speaker 1: be he could create an ethical conflict depending on what

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Speaker 1: I was reporting on UM. So he, you know, I

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Speaker 1: sort of said, it's just gonna be fun. I just

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Speaker 1: want to try it out. And they were a little leary,

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Speaker 1: but said okay, do it. And then I was doing

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Speaker 1: pretty well and the Lord said, well, how about you

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Speaker 1: do two days a week? So I did Saturdays and

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Speaker 1: Sundays and I did the law job the other days.

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Speaker 1: And then they came to me and said, how about

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Speaker 1: you do another day of a week. And that would

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Speaker 1: have required me to go part time at Jones Day,

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Speaker 1: and so I went. I spoke with a head of

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Speaker 1: general Litigation, a guy named Tim Cullen, who was so great,

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Speaker 1: and he said, Okay, I'm sad because this feels like

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Speaker 1: a trial separation and those usually lead to divorce. And

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Speaker 1: I said, Tim, you know it very well might, but

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Speaker 1: I gotta try. So he he let me stay at

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Speaker 1: Jones Day, you know, part time. UM. And then eventually

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Speaker 1: I decided it was time to make a full time leap.

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Speaker 1: All right, so your how old? The first time you

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Speaker 1: go on air with I think it was w j

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Speaker 1: l A. You said, so that would have been two

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Speaker 1: thousand three, so I was thirty two. Okay, so you've

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Speaker 1: never really done television before you're thirty two years old.

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Speaker 1: You get to go on this, uh, this relatively small

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Speaker 1: station in Washington, d C. What did you do the

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Speaker 1: first time that you were on television? The very first

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Speaker 1: time I ever saw myself on television, it was taped,

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Speaker 1: so I was clear like it was a taped piece.

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Speaker 1: But what would you remember the time? Do you remember

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Speaker 1: the topic of the tape piece? Do you remember what

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Speaker 1: you reported? It was the very first thing I ever

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Speaker 1: did was on a hurricane, and it was Hurricane Isabelle

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Speaker 1: that had gone through Virginia, and I thought for sure,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna be doing doing mostly legal stuff.

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Speaker 1: Is that that had been my pitch? And I remember

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Speaker 1: calling Bill Lord. My first day was a Friday, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, probably don't need me, right because the

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Speaker 1: storms come in and you know you're not gonna need

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, legal expert type, And he goes, if you

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Speaker 1: don't already have rain boots and rain pants and rains

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Speaker 1: like that, you better go get up and get in here,

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Speaker 1: like oh no, And so it was a crazy night.

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Speaker 1: I did a report on not that night, but the

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Speaker 1: next day on the hurricane, and it was fine. But

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Speaker 1: the first time I had to do a live shot

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Speaker 1: where it's like go, you know, like I'd practiced on

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Speaker 1: the streets of Chicago, was at the d. It was

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Speaker 1: the dullest airport and there was something going on with

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Speaker 1: the airport and security and they had a scare. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's just back when we were still pretty close to

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Speaker 1: nine eleven and there was a scare every other day, um,

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Speaker 1: and and it was here in the headlights, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they're like you can hear the anchor toss to you.

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Speaker 1: And really, I'm like, I don't know who the hell

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Speaker 1: I am? Who the hell am? I just say your name,

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Speaker 1: say something, say something resembling anything. And I got through it,

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Speaker 1: and I thought I had been totally incomprehensible. When I

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Speaker 1: looked back at leader, it was okay. It wasn't hideous,

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00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: but it was terrifying. Be sure to catch live editions

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Speaker 1: about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at

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Speaker 1: six am Eastern three am Pacific. I'm Clay Travis is

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Speaker 1: Wins and Losses. We're talking with Megan Kelly. So do

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Speaker 1: you go back, like an athlete and study your early

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Speaker 1: tapes in television to figure out what you're doing well?

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Speaker 1: Or did you find that you kind of got a

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Speaker 1: sense for how you were doing. What about the discipline

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Speaker 1: of television came to you and how did you get better?

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Speaker 1: I definitely went back and looked at the tapes, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's a must do, you know, because it

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Speaker 1: is a visual medium and you have to see or

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Speaker 1: whatever the mechanism is, listened to yourself and see what

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Speaker 1: works and what doesn't work. You know, you may think

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Speaker 1: you sound fine, when you go back and you watch yourself,

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Speaker 1: you see a totally different product. So I did that

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Speaker 1: for years when I first started, you know, at w

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Speaker 1: j l A, and then and then at Fox News.

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Speaker 1: But the truth is that is a skill you only

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Speaker 1: develop by doing it over and over and over. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's like typing, and you you cannot type seventy words

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Speaker 1: a minute before you've done and so on. So I

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Speaker 1: would just say yes to everything, which I think every

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Speaker 1: young person in a job should do. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: I always tell the young people who are asking me

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Speaker 1: for advice, you know, if they want you to empty

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Speaker 1: the trash, empty the trash, like say yes to every

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Speaker 1: weekend ship to working on Christmas. You know, have some gumption,

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Speaker 1: go after it, you know, don't don't be ah, I'm

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Speaker 1: above this kind of person. And that leads to opportunity,

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Speaker 1: you know, because the sad truth is it will set

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Speaker 1: you apart from of your competition, um so and and

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Speaker 1: and it just happened to be and in my profession,

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Speaker 1: as it is in most that that makes you better.

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Speaker 1: You know, you get your ten thou hours in and

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Speaker 1: before you know it, you're doing it almost effortlessly. What

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Speaker 1: I have found is, and this is probably a legal

396
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Speaker 1: background as well, what I get to do now is

397
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Speaker 1: make argue months. But instead of having to take as

398
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Speaker 1: you said earlier, sometimes you're on the wrong side of

399
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Speaker 1: an argument. You're like, boy, I'd rather have the facts

400
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: of that other side now, you know, with the position

401
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 1: that I'm in, And I think you get to do

402
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Speaker 1: this now as well. You get to look at all

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Speaker 1: the facts, array them as you see fit, and then

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Speaker 1: make your case. And as you were talking about your

405
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Speaker 1: legal career, it struck me watch having watched your television show. Basically,

406
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Speaker 1: what you're doing is arguing in front of a jury

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Speaker 1: every single night about cases and stories that matter the

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Speaker 1: most to you in a compelling fashion. Right, It's basically

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Speaker 1: like an oral argument that you get to make every

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Speaker 1: single night when you're doing a live television show. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: and one of the biggest challenges but also rewards if

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Speaker 1: you do it right. Of of doing that show in

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Speaker 1: that way was taking really condensed, really difficult subjects and

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Speaker 1: condensing them in a way that my imaginary viewer that

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Speaker 1: the one I picture in my head, Yes, she's working.

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Speaker 1: Who do you picture? By the way, who do you picture?

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Speaker 1: Because I I do that for my radio show, my

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Speaker 1: television show to an average person who's watching, Who in

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Speaker 1: your mind is an average Megan Kelly viewer. I have

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Speaker 1: a woman in my head named Madge who lives in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: She works all day, She's got a couple of kids,

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Speaker 1: and she and her husband come home from work and

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Speaker 1: at night and they turn on the TV. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: have a glass of wine and they want to consume

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Speaker 1: their news in a way that is easy to understand,

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Speaker 1: somewhat entertaining, trustworthy, and that they don't have to work

427
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: too hard to get. So it's my job to take

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Speaker 1: something hugely complex, like a Supreme Court ruling on redistricting,

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Speaker 1: and try to make Madge not have to work for

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Speaker 1: it at all. If Madge has to hit the rewind

431
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: button on the remote control, I have failed. It should

432
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: it's I used to call it. It's like cool water

433
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 1: going over a hot brain. That's how I want my

434
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: news delivery to feel to the consumer. And and if

435
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: you have to try too hard on the air, you

436
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: haven't tried hard enough prior to getting to air. But

437
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 1: I will say, Clay, one of the things I like

438
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: about you and and one of the things I think

439
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: maybe the solution to our entirely disgustingly broken media is

440
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: more lawyers delivering the news in whatever way works for them.

441
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: Because lawyers, I think, in their soul they're programmed to

442
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 1: understand at least both sides and to try in some

443
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: way to recognize the other argument. I do. And I

444
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: don't know if it's just that we're soul as hacks

445
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: or you know, these trained elite arguers. The latter sounds better,

446
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: but whatever it is, most lawyers I know, Dan Abrams

447
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: is another they they're really good at being fair. I

448
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: don't think there's any doubt at all. I mean, what

449
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: I always say on my show is I care about

450
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: three things. The facts, the facts, the facts. And one

451
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: of the things that troubles me the most about our

452
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: country today is you can disagree with my opinions or

453
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: your opinions or anybody's opinion out there in the world

454
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: of media, or your friends and family posting on social

455
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: media all day, but if you start with incorrect facts,

456
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: then you get to a place with an incorrect opinion.

457
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: And so uh, there's a lot of people who don't

458
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: care about the factual basis whether you're a Democrat, Republican, independent,

459
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: and it seems like we have lost that, particularly in

460
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: a social media age. And I do think lawyers are

461
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: better attuned to being able to consider both sides of

462
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: an issue and at least understand the importance of facts,

463
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: because what you're talking about is basically the skills of

464
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: a great trial lawyer. And a great trial lawyer can

465
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: take facts which are honest and accurate and put the

466
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: best spin possible on them to advocate for the cause

467
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: they believe in. But they know that the facts have

468
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: to be right, or the jury is not going to

469
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: trust them right face to face. It seems to me

470
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: we've lost the ability to recognize the foundational basis of fact.

471
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that is most disturbing me

472
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: and most inspiring me to get back out there, because

473
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: both sides do it right. You know, President Trump, I

474
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: always say he doesn't. He doesn't have an adult relationship

475
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: with the truth. You know. I think all of his

476
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: years in real estate, UM sort of led him to

477
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: tolerate a certain level of you know, puffery. We would

478
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: have called it in the law UM. And so he is,

479
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: I think, by nature and optimists who tries to oversell

480
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: positive outcomes. But he also if he gets himself in trouble,

481
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: he's not just gonna level with you about what he

482
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: did and why it wasn't a big deal. He's going

483
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: to try to tell you the facts are other than

484
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: what they are. That's a character trait that he has,

485
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: for better or for worse. But on the left, you

486
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: see like a post factual world when it comes to

487
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: discussions on tough subjects, you know, like the transgender issue

488
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: and the gender issue in general. You know that there's

489
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: there's no more biological sex and that you know, having

490
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: having certain genitalia is totally irrelevant to whether you're a

491
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: woman or a man. I don't believe that's true. Scientifically,

492
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: we can talk about what your life is like and

493
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: how you want to be accepted, and I'm totally pro

494
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 1: all of that, but there is a basis in science,

495
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: and I don't like the silencing of the scientific community

496
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: or even in the you know, all the Black Lives

497
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: Matter protests that we saw this summer. You know, you

498
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: can want to be an advocate against racism without making

499
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: up lies about the police. Uh. And I'm not talking

500
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: about George Floyd, but I'm talking about the lives that

501
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: were put out there about the number of cases of

502
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: police brutality, but police killings of black men, there are

503
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: real data on that, and they've been they've been either

504
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: suppressed their silenced. In fact, I've represented, I've got it

505
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: right here. I mean that that I keep because it's

506
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: been such a big topic in the world of sports. Um,

507
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, a police officer is seventeen times seventeen and

508
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: a half time as likely to be killed by a

509
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: black potential suspect as a police officer is to kill

510
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: an unarmed black man in this country. Right, that's a fact.

511
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm reading directly from the Wall Street Journal. The data

512
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: is clear and transparent and straightforward. That is factual basis.

513
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: Now we can talk once we have those facts in

514
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: place about ways to make the country better based on

515
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: our relationship between police and those that they consider suspects

516
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: of crimes, whatever race. They might be right to try

517
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: to dial down the tension, but it's as if that

518
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: fact makes people uncomfortable, and so you can't even have

519
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: an honest conversation about how to fix things if you

520
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: can't begin with a common basis effect. That's right, because

521
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: they'll call you a racist, and no one wants to

522
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: be called a racist. And and it's it's sad because book,

523
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm sort of a free agent now, right, so it's

524
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: like I don't really care what they call me, and

525
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: they've already called me all the me memes that I'm

526
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: doing just fine. But I do worry about civilians, right,

527
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, because they don't want

528
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: to put themselves out there. I've got good friends who

529
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: are you know, they're successful doctors and lawyers, and they

530
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: can't even like a tweet without having to worry about.

531
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: And that's not okay. You know that the data on

532
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: police shootings or killings of black suspects are knowable. They

533
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: are knowable. It's not a perfect science, but they have

534
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: been reported for years. The Washington Post has been keeping

535
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: running tally of it all. And for some reason, and

536
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, people can draw their own conclusions, these activists

537
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: want us only to look at the percentage of black

538
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: people in the population, which tends to be around and

539
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 1: then look at the number of black people who are

540
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: killed by police in a year, and that's just not

541
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: the relevant data. They don't want you to factor in

542
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: at all the level of black criminality, and that The

543
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal has been doing a great job and

544
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: reporting the savas on this, but over the violent crimes

545
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: in the major cities of this country are committed by

546
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: black men. Now, the cops are not they're they're not

547
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: arresting women if that doesn't make them sexist against men.

548
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: They're going after the people who are committing the crime,

549
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: and so necessarily the interactions between those guys and polices

550
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: they're going to go up. And they're fraught because if

551
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: you resist arrest, and the data show that that's what's

552
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: happened in virtually all these cases where a death results,

553
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: your odds of getting injured or killed by the police

554
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: officers go up exponentially. That's an argument that is all

555
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: factual based, Right. I think it's an important one that

556
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: needs to be discussed in the country. You couldn't say

557
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: that on CNN today. You couldn't say that today on MSNBC. Right,

558
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: I really don't think you could. Why do you think

559
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: and you worked and had your own show, and you

560
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: did had a tremendous success at Fox News. Why do

561
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: you think our society, media culture has created this world

562
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: where there are facts that aren't allowed to be spoken

563
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: on television on certain networks, and by the way, you

564
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: can make it across the board, right there facts probably

565
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: that make Fox News viewers uncomfortable that don't get shared

566
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: very often. We don't have a Walter Cronkite of the

567
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: world who's sitting down and kind of the arbiter that

568
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: everybody trust to be a great official, so to speak,

569
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: of the world at large. How do we put the

570
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: genie back in the bottle? Can we are things going

571
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: to even get worse from here? Boy? I mean, I

572
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: think with what's happening with this sort of woke culture. Um,

573
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: you know, the social justice warriors. It's going to be

574
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: tough there. There that's a small group of Americans. They

575
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: do not represent the majority in trying to cancel everybody

576
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: and shut everybody up. But they're really loud, and the

577
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: media is they're in complete fealty to that small group. Um.

578
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: And so it's dangerous. And I'll tell you most they're are.

579
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: There are so many intellectuals black end white, but a

580
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: lot of black intellectuals who are sort of pushing a

581
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 1: more heterodox view, you know, from Glenn Lowry to Coleman

582
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: Hughes obviously, um, Shelby Steele, Thomas Soul. But so you

583
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: can read black intellectuals who have done all the research

584
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: on this um and see what their worldview is. It

585
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: would it would back up everything I just said. Right,

586
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: go look at read Jason Riley in the Wall Street

587
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: Journal if you want to know the facts. Um. But

588
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: if a white person says it, they're going to call

589
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: you a racist. So you just you know, to really

590
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: know what's going on, you have to actually be prepared

591
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: to take some you know, some some punches in their face.

592
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: But I think what's happened with the media is they're

593
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: left They're not just liberal, they're leftist, and they love

594
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: to virtue signal. You know, early on in my career,

595
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: I got sent down to cover the Duke what we

596
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: now know is the fake rape case with a cross case. Yes,

597
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: and uh, I went out. When I first heard about

598
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: that case, I was new to Fox. It was like

599
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: two thousand five, and I at the time, it's thirty four,

600
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: so I was whatever, not that far out of college.

601
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: And I was like, these guys they probably did it,

602
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, like action the cross players, and you know,

603
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: you had you had preconceived stereotypes as a you know,

604
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: girl who had gone to Syracuse. You're like, oh, I

605
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: can see these stupid lacrosse guys doing something like this,

606
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: by the way, everybody does. And then one of the

607
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: great things about being a lawyer is you end up

608
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: representing people that you're like, man, this guy seems like

609
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: a total jerk, and then you start to look at

610
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: the facts and you're like, man, maybe this is not

611
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: very similar at all to what was initially reported. So

612
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: that's fast. So you go down to Duke, and when

613
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: do you start to have doubts about that case as

614
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and you start to look at it because

615
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: you're in a unique position there. Well, i'll tell you

616
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: the first thing I happened before I left for North

617
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: Carolina was britt Hume, my boss and the DC Bureau said, um,

618
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: keep an open mind. And it was just the small

619
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: piece of advice, but it was the best advice, right

620
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: because it just a good reminder that it really isn't

621
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: about what I think, It's about where the facts lead.

622
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: And I'm going down there in a fact finding mission.

623
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: So that's what I did. And I went down and

624
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: Fox gave me the you know, latitude to develop sources.

625
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: Normally they just have each other to a camera. We

626
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: have to do live shot every half hour on a

627
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: big story like that. But they sent a different report

628
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: to to do that so I could actually develop sax.

629
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: And it was very clear if you just had an

630
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: open mind, the facts did not support this woman delegations.

631
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: Her story started to fall apart very early, and I

632
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: reported those inconsistencies in her story and so on, and

633
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: at the time, this is very early in my career,

634
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: people were suggesting it was racist of me and each

635
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: sexist of me to be quote siding with these three

636
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: white privileged guys instead of this uh, single mother, black

637
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: um person who lived on sort of the Durham side

638
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: as opposed to the Duke's side. You know, it's like

639
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: that there's two areas of Durham one's one's less affluent

640
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: than the other. And uh, I just had to forge

641
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: through that. You just had to say, Okay, they're gonna

642
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: call me names, but I have to report the news.

643
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: That's what I made me paid to do. And you

644
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: know who the other person was who was getting the

645
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: facts right, who was on cable news at that time,

646
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: Dan Abrams, who I mentioned earlier, a lawyer who came

647
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: to MSNBC at the time from Court TV. And his

648
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: dad is Floyd Abrams, the famed First Amendment attorney who

649
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: argued New York Times to be solid it. So I

650
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: just think, you know, being open minds of the facts

651
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: helped me land in the right place and on these

652
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: cop shootings. Um that you just have to be open minded.

653
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: You have to be open minded and go where the

654
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: evidence goes. You know, the Michael Brown case in Ferguson,

655
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: you know people should go that. Kamala Harris and others

656
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: are still referring to Michael Brown as a victim, that

657
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: she's murdered, that he was murdered. He was not murdered.

658
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: And there were at least five black eyewitnesses who said

659
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: they saw him turn and run after the officer when

660
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: the officer, you know, was already had already been attacked,

661
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: hands up, don't shoot. A proven law. Yet it contends

662
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: to be continues to be propagated well, And that's so

663
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: that's what we have to be aware of now that

664
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: the media is in full virtue signaling mode, because what

665
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: I've noticed with with these cases is the media, which

666
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: again is leftist, it's not just liberal, it's leftist. They

667
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: will take these incendiary cases, these videos of of a

668
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: white police officer, or even if of a black police officer,

669
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: and they'll say that's racist too, if it's if it's

670
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: a black defendant, and they'll say they'll play it over

671
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: and over, over and over and over to tell you

672
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: that all police are brutal, and all police are racist,

673
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: and it's systemically racist, and it's so misrepresentative because you

674
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: could do the same with a white police officer. They're

675
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: doing this to a white defendant, and that that doesn't

676
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: mean that all police need to be stopped because they

677
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: must be brutal against everybody either. Because if you look

678
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: at the numbers of police killings of defendants here in

679
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: New York City, they in the seventies, they were in

680
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: the four hundreds a year. Now they're down to thirty

681
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: plus in a year. The police are going in the

682
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: right direction on this stuff. They're aware that they've had problems.

683
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: But when it comes to race, it's the media that

684
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: drives the narrative that it's a black white thing, and

685
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: they do that for reasons of their own, especially in

686
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: an election year you mentioned earlier. So you're covering Duke

687
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: Lacrosse in two thousand five, that is before there is

688
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: actually a social media universe really, I mean Facebook is

689
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: just getting started, then Twitter doesn't exist. That has put,

690
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, sort of jet fuel or added steroids to

691
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: what was already a trend line moving in that direction

692
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: of everybody being able to find their own worldview by

693
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: turning on their television or just picking up their phone. Uh,

694
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: what was it like for you? I'm curious as you

695
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: move up in the world to go from Megan Kelly,

696
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 1: who's a reporter, right, like you're not necessarily giving your

697
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: own opinions to making that transition to an opinionist, and

698
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: how did you do it? Well? I mean, I think

699
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm sort of a hybrid. You know. I'm still a

700
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: journalist and that's why I was out there angering presidential

701
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: debates for Fox. UM. But I've I've offered opinion in

702
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: the fields that I think I have some expertise in,

703
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: and that's tended to be legal stuff, you know. And

704
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: I think this whole Black Lives Matter thing started based

705
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: on a legal case, and I know how to look

706
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: at a legal case, and I've never gotten one wrong.

707
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: I've never looked at one of these situations and said

708
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to come out and been

709
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: proven wrong on it. And there's a reason for that,

710
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: you know. I'm I'm an objective juror on this stuff.

711
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: I will go where the evidence takes me. Um. So

712
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: that's sort of what I've tried to do. I've tried

713
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: to sort of hold on to my journalistic integrity. You know,

714
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: I'm not somebody who would go out there. I watched

715
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: somebody like Nicole Wallace on the MSNBC. I don't know

716
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: what she is. She used to work, She's a work

717
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: in Republican circle. She's as far from Republican as you

718
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: can get now, and she's openly saying she's hosting a

719
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: daytime quote news show on MSNBC, but she openly says

720
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: she's going to vote for Joe Biden. So back in

721
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: my day, you weren't supposed to do that as a journalist.

722
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: You we didn't announce who you're going to vote for.

723
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: You didn't announce whether your pro choice or pro life.

724
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't touch those rails either. But I do

725
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: feel very comfortable correcting the record, even on dicey issues.

726
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: What you mentioned the Donald Trump, the debate that you did,

727
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: which I thought was fantastic and so well managed, but

728
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: it obviously turned your life upside down. What is your

729
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: relationship like now, if at all, with President Trump? Have

730
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: you had any interaction with the White House since? And

731
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: how did you find him both as a private in

732
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: a public figure. How much overlap was there in the

733
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: way he would behave privately versus the way he behaved publicly.

734
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: So privately, I before the debate and even ultimately after

735
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: the debate have found him utterly charming. You know, you

736
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: might be surprised utterly charming generous, self deprecating, effusive, and kind, complementary. Um,

737
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: I had nothing but kind feelings toward him, and and

738
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: I still have kind feelings toward him. I don't like

739
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: what he did towards me for those nine months, and

740
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: I don't love the way he talks about you know,

741
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: some of my fellow citizens these days. You know, he's

742
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: not careful with his language and it can be problematic. UM.

743
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: And I see the flaws that people accuse him off.

744
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: There's no question he can be thin skinned and so on.

745
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: We all have our problems and his are magnified because

746
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: he's the president. But professionally, we went through a very

747
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: tough period together for those nine months. Wasn't tough for him,

748
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: It was tough for me, and I hated it it was.

749
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: It was really just one of the most challenging things

750
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: I've been through professionally, and it was one of those

751
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: things that sort of there's probably a lesson in it,

752
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: because you know, I asked tough questions of all the

753
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: guys that night. The only difference was Trump wouldn't let

754
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: it go. You know, he made a thing out of

755
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: it and wouldn't let it go. And ultimately I couldn't

756
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: get him off my back. You know, Roger L's tried

757
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: and Sean Hannity tried for me, and he was tight

758
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: with Trump. He just he just wouldn't he wouldn't back off.

759
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: He was I think he was enjoying the storyline. And

760
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: so finally the lesson is it only stopped when I

761
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: took it in hand myself and I contacted him through

762
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: a friend. It was actually Brian kilmead Um who got

763
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: a message to him that I wanted to meet with him.

764
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: And you know, Roger Leader said, you should have met

765
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: on neutral ground, you should have gone a Trump tower.

766
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: I was like, Roger, I don't care. I don't care

767
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: if it looks like I'm pursuing him or I'm an

768
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: aspect dary Well I am. I'm a journalist. The nature

769
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: of our relationship is, you know, pursuer and pursued. And

770
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: so we met and I basically, I mean the conversation

771
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: was off the record, but the bottom line is I said,

772
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: please knock it off. You know you've done You've done

773
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: this long enough. You made your point. Um, I want

774
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: you to put me back on the sidelines where I belong,

775
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: you belong in the playing field. And I belong on

776
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: the sidelines. Put me back there. No harm done and

777
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: he was totally gracious about it, and we've never had

778
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: a problem since. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports

779
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows

780
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I

781
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.

782
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: You said earlier in our conversation, I'm Clay Travis. This

783
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: is wins and losses. We're talking with Meg and Kelly.

784
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: Retreat is almost always bad. You left Fox for NBC.

785
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: Obviously that didn't work out. Maybe it did because maybe

786
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: you're happy where you are now. If you were going back,

787
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: would you say, hey, I should have stated Fox, I

788
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: could have kept doing that show. Or was leaving Fox

789
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: like leaving the practice of law for you? You You felt

790
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: like you had done everything you could there and you

791
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: were ready for another new challenge. And how would you

792
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: say to people out there who were, you know, trying

793
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: to weigh decisions that they make in their own career,

794
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: how did you make that choice? And looking back on it,

795
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: would you change anything? It's so smart, Clay, this is

796
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: this is why you're doing so well. Um. That's a

797
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: great question, and it the answer is it was the latter. Um,

798
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: it was. You know, I don't regret leaving Fox at all.

799
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: I kind of missed my old show because I think

800
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: it was a service. I think it was an honest

801
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: show that you could trust. And if The Kelly File

802
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: we're still on now, I would watch it, you know.

803
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons why I'm I'm launching

804
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: this podcast, you know, because I do want to get

805
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: back to doing the news in a way that I

806
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: think is fair and illuminating and hopefully yeerless. Um. But

807
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: I don't regret the decision to leave, because it was

808
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: just a combination of things. It had been a rough

809
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: time with Trump, yes, but that was in the past.

810
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: But you know, the Roger Ail thing changed my life

811
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: a lot at Fox. And even when it came out that,

812
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, he really did have this side of him

813
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: that was really problematic. Um, people found it tough to forgive,

814
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: you know, not everybody, but you know, I have dear,

815
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: dear friends there. Some of my best friends are there.

816
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: But some people who I really loved and admired just

817
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: never got over it. You know that I they thought

818
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: I had turned on him because I didn't support him.

819
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: And you know you I couldn't explain it any better

820
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: than you know I had publicly. You know, it's I

821
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: too felt loyal to Roger and grateful to him for

822
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: what he'd done for me over the course of my career.

823
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: But when faced with the direct question about whether he

824
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: was capable of doing this two women or not, there

825
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: was no way I was gonna lie. There's just there's

826
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: just no way I was going to do it. So

827
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: my life changed a lot there. The dynamic changed. And

828
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: while it was changing, um, my life was explosive. It

829
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: was you talked about acrimony. You know, I left a

830
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: lot because it was too many hours and it was

831
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: too acrimonious. Put that on steroids for my time in

832
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: cable news prime time. Um, you know O'Reilly told me

833
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: before I joined the prime time lineup that he said

834
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: it's a snake pit, and it got it. I've never

835
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: been told something more true. And so every time somebody

836
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: would come after me, there was somebody in the press

837
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: or another journalist or Trump or whoever, it would lead

838
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: to another crisis meeting. You know, the Trump thing had

839
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: led to armed guards in my life, people showing up

840
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: at my apartment. It was dangerous and we lived like

841
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: that for nine months. So I was weary, you know.

842
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I had three young kids

843
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: at the time, they were seven, five, and three, and

844
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: I missed them. I missed mothering. And I remember talking

845
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: my therapist about at the time and he said, you know,

846
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: he said, look at Chelsea Clinton. She had two parents

847
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: who were incredibly busy, you know, they weren't there with

848
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: her every day. She turned out just fine. And I said,

849
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about my kids turning out fine. I'm

850
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: worried about missing it. I'm missing the whole thing. I

851
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: don't see them anymore. I don't see them Monday through

852
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: Friday because of these hours. You know, I go to

853
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: work before they get home from school now, and what

854
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm doing isn't good enough. So I just there were

855
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: a lot of tears that year. There was so much stress,

856
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: and my life was was totally joyless. And I thought,

857
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: once again, despite the fact that I was making a

858
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: lot of money and offered a lot of money to

859
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: stay and had a position of influence, it was irrelevant

860
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: to me. I was running and it wasn't running to NBC,

861
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: but I was just running to a different lifestyle and

862
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: the reason I went to NBC over anybody else, So

863
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: simply I thought I could do this morning show that

864
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: would let me then get home to my kids. I

865
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: could still do the news and get home to my kids.

866
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: And you know, that obviously did not work out, and

867
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: I wasn't well thought out on my part either, But

868
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: it was a good move to get out and I

869
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: did exercise some new muscles there and I got to

870
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: interview Vladimir Putin, which is cool. Um, So it wasn't

871
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: all bad. And and the bottom line is now in

872
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: I am totally engaged with my kids, with my husband,

873
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: with my personal life, tight friendships now with my friends

874
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 1: that had gone unnurtured. I feel well, I feel healthy,

875
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: I feel happy, you know, as happy as an Irish

876
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: Catholic living in New York and b And there's a

877
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of things going against me, um um.

878
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: And I don't regret it from it. I don't regret

879
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: for one minute. One of the things that I think

880
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: is fascinating about becoming a public figure, and obviously you

881
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 1: did that leaving the law, which is a serious job

882
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 1: and it's filled with acrimony, but most of the time

883
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: you're not gonna wake up in the morning and people

884
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: aren't going to be mentioning your name or having a

885
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: strong opinion about you. Is lots of people that you

886
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: don't know at all and you'll never be able to

887
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: interact with suddenly have such strong opinions about you. And

888
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: I find that transition to be utterly fascinating. I've certainly

889
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: seen it in my life. And I was talking with

890
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: my wife the other day and she was like, what

891
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: percentage of the American public do you think has a

892
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: positive view of you? And I was like thirty and

893
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: she was like really, And I was like, well, I

894
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: mean the media. I'm in the media. I'm in the

895
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: opinion business. I was like, a lot of people like me,

896
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: but a probably more people dislike me because they have

897
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: kind of a you know, caricatured version of me because

898
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: they've heard opinion they don't like and they think about that.

899
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: And I said, but the really, the truth is, and

900
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: I'm brought to this because of what you just mentioned,

901
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: your three young kids. I've got a twelve year old,

902
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: a ten year old, and a six year old. And

903
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: I said, really, the only thing I care is what

904
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: people in my house think about me, because they know me,

905
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: and then secondarily people that are close to me and

906
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: my family, and then people that I work with on

907
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: a daily basis. I really don't care outside of that,

908
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: but I'm curious for you and I and my wife

909
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: says like that's my superpower. I just genuinely don't care

910
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: what people I don't know think about me. But I

911
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: wonder if that's true for you and what it was

912
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: like to suddenly go from I would say you got

913
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: generally favorable pressed with the Kelly File too suddenly, and

914
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: you may disagree with that, but it seemed generally favorable.

915
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: It's at least as favorable as somebody who's working at

916
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: Fox News can get to. Suddenly you are just getting

917
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: attacked on all angles by everyone, and it's like that

918
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: had to be wild. What does that experience like to

919
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: be in the center of the storm like you were

920
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: and still are to a certain extent, but certainly then

921
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: you really were well. I mean, that was very stressful,

922
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: like being misread, resented day after day. It felt like

923
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: every word I said turned into a ridiculous controversy not

924
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: supported by the facts, and you know, there's only so

925
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: much you can do about that. I've I've always sort

926
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: of been of the belief that you just have to

927
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 1: let that go because you can't control what the media

928
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: is going to do and say about you or what

929
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: people think of you. Um. But when it comes in

930
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: every other day over the course of you know, more

931
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: than a year, it's it's hard. I'm not gonna lie,

932
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: it was. It was tough on me emotionally. Um. I

933
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: think in general, in general, I'm of the belief that

934
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: you know, life in the public square, if you're doing

935
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: it right, means loved hate, It never ignored, you know,

936
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,479
Speaker 1: like you just have to resign to that that you'll

937
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: all have people, you know, scoff at me as I

938
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: walk down the street and I but I'll have far

939
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: more people come over and want to hug me and

940
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: coll me. They love me, and my kids see both sides,

941
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 1: you know. They they're Even my little guy, who's now seven,

942
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: he gets it. You know, he'll see something a picture

943
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 1: of me on the tabloid or whatever, and I'll say, oh, honey,

944
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, there's lots of lies about mommy out there,

945
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: and he'll say, well, why don't why don't you correct them?

946
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: And I'm like, because there's no need the people who

947
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 1: believe that stuff want to believe it, and the people

948
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: who don't believe it don't need to be persuaded. You know,

949
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: my fans know who I am and they don't believe

950
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: the nonsense. And the other people, in my experience have

951
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: been very agenda driven. They're they're in a different kind

952
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: of bubble. There's really no point um in fighting those fights,

953
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: so you kind of have to surrender to it if

954
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna put yourself out there is a public figure.

955
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: Why the podcast? You are starting a new podcast? We

956
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 1: have a lot of people that you're working with who

957
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: I know are super smart on the business side, and

958
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: I think you've chosen well there. But why this particular

959
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: way to reach your audience. Well, I really wanted to

960
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: be independent, meaning not have a corporate sponsor above me

961
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: controlling everything. I didn't set you know, but old media,

962
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: if you will, because there are pressures. There are pressures

963
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: to cover the news in a certain way, to not

964
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: say certain things, um, and I just don't want to

965
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: live like that anymore. I'm at a point in my

966
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: life where I don't want to do that, and I

967
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: think we're at a point in our country where we

968
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: need more free agents who are just ready to say

969
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: what's true, no matter what slings and arrows right, no

970
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: matter what slings and arrows come. And I'm in a

971
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: position to do it now. You know, It's like I've

972
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: been at ABC, I've been at NBC, I've been at Fox. UM,

973
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of things, and I'm ready to

974
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: just be in control of my own little empire. And

975
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: and honestly, if we start with ten listeners, great, maybe

976
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: the next week we'll have twelve, and over time I

977
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: will build up my relationship again with my audience, who

978
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 1: I do believe is there. I know how they feel.

979
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: I know there are strong people out there who don't

980
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: believe in these nonsense safe spaces, who really want to

981
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: have challenging conversations, who are way tougher than you know,

982
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: these media people give them credit for. You know, those

983
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: are the people I'm going after and there it's great

984
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: because they have more and more options in podcasting. I

985
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: think my voice will be additive to the ones that

986
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: are already out there, and hopefully people remember that I

987
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: do the news. I bring the news in a way

988
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 1: that's user friendly. UM. But for me, it just made

989
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,479
Speaker 1: perfect sense because I wouldn't have a corporate master. Um,

990
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 1: I could. I could do things the way I wanted to.

991
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: And I genuinely believe that this is the future, and

992
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: that you know, television news is dying, it's yesterday. Digital

993
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: as the future, and so this is where should place

994
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: your bet. I've got two quick questions for you, because

995
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: I know you're busy, um, and then I've got a

996
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: broad question for you at the end, if we can

997
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: run through really quick because I jotted down, Um, in general,

998
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: did you watch Bombshell? And if so, what's it like

999
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 1: to have someone as talented as Charlie's her own playing you?

1000
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: Like most people you know jokingly kind of say, I

1001
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,479
Speaker 1: think Wolf Blitzer. Somebody was like, hey, if somebody played

1002
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: you in a movie, who would owe is der Fauci.

1003
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: He was like, who would you want? And he was

1004
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: like Brad Pitt and everybody kind of laughs. Charlie Starone

1005
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: played you. And if you were like a normal you know,

1006
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: woman sitting out there, and You're like, any woman can

1007
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: play you in a movie. A lot of women, especially

1008
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: around your your age, my wife's age, you'd be like, oh,

1009
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: I would love to have Charlie's throne. So did you

1010
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: watch it, and what is it like to have somebody

1011
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: that accomplished inhabiting you in some way. I did watch it.

1012
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I was going to watch it

1013
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: because I had nothing to do with it, and I

1014
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: was concerned that it was going to be a hit

1015
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: piece either. I don't know either about me or my

1016
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: friends at Fox. You know, I still love Fox. I

1017
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: still have a lot of good memories there, and I

1018
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: just I just knew they'd probably turn it into a

1019
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: parody of people who I really care about. Um And

1020
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: to some extent they did, and I really hated what

1021
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: they did to Brian kill me in that movie, just

1022
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: as one example. UM. But I did ultimately watch it,

1023
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: and I up actually doing a piece with some of

1024
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: the women who were portrayed in there, whose stories were portrayed,

1025
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: and I posted it on on my YouTube channel. If

1026
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: you want to go look it up. It's actually really good.

1027
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: I think the women were very open about their experience

1028
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: at Falks. But look, it was surreal and it was

1029
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: incredibly emotional. I didn't expect it to be quite that emotional,

1030
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: you know that I'd have tears running down my face

1031
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: in certain certain scenes, you know, whenever they showed my

1032
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: kids on the screen. Even now, even telling you about it,

1033
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: it chokes me up. I get that thing in my throat,

1034
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, because it was tough for them too, like

1035
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 1: the whole couple of years, Trump and nails and all that.

1036
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: Um it just brought back a lot of painful memories.

1037
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: And of course I'm thinking to myself, there's a reason

1038
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: I repressed all of this. Imagine taking one of the

1039
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: most difficult years or two of your life and been

1040
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: seeing it on the big screen. You know, Red Back

1041
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: performed back for you. Um So it was traumatic in

1042
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: some ways, but overall I felt, you know, the movie

1043
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: was a force for good. Is it did help hina

1044
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: light on sexual harassment and how how it usually goes

1045
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: down and how tricky it is to navigate. Um So

1046
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: I'm in favor of that. And you know, I thought

1047
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: Jay Roach, the guy who directed it made it happen,

1048
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: was a terrific guy. So as a part of that,

1049
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: the Me too movement sexual harassment, I think, and this

1050
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: kind of ties in with the Duke Lacrosse in many ways.

1051
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: The Brett Kavanaugh hearing, and I don't know that I've

1052
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: heard you talk a ton about this, but it fired

1053
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: me up in a really big way as a lawyer,

1054
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: because it was to me, it was like Duke Lacrosse,

1055
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: except in the Senate Judiciary Committee. I don't know what

1056
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: you think about Brett Kavanaugh. I don't know if you've

1057
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: ever met him before, but when you looked at all

1058
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: the evidence there, it to me was so transparent that

1059
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: that was a attempt to get him without the goods,

1060
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: so to speak. If you're a lawyer, you look at

1061
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: all the facts and everything else. And what started as

1062
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: something that I think is very reasonable, me too, moved

1063
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: to believe all women, which is fundamentally anti everything lawyers

1064
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: are taught. Right if we went to law school and

1065
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: they said, oh, you have to believe the white person,

1066
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: well that's everything that was wrong with the Jim Crow

1067
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: South and everything before then. And the same thing, to

1068
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: me is true of believe all women, or believe all

1069
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: Hispanics are all agents, or the only thing that matters

1070
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: is the facts. Where you is troubled by the evolution

1071
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: and how quickly it moved from what may well have

1072
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,439
Speaker 1: been occurring at Fox News with Roger Ailes and many

1073
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: other people in media having to deal with sexual harassment

1074
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: to something with Brett Kavanaugh, which is fundamentally not that.

1075
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: It seemed to me it was an awkward high school

1076
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: encounter even if it ever occurred that I think almost

1077
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: everyone who's ever been sixteen or seventeen has experienced, and

1078
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: I don't even believe it happened. But even if you

1079
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: accept the allegation on its face, as lawyers often do

1080
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: or judges do, there was no basis to it. So

1081
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: I too felt deeply affect did by what happened in

1082
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: that case, and was disgusted by the allegations that were

1083
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 1: thrown at Brett Kavanaugh with zero, zero, credible supporting evidence.

1084
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: In the case of especially these later ones who came forward, Um,

1085
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: we can talk about Blasi for because I put her

1086
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: in a different category. But yes, you go back and

1087
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: take a look at some of my coverage on NBC.

1088
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: There were articles written up about it because let's just say,

1089
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: I was the lone voice defending Brett Cavanaugh and just

1090
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: holding people to account it. There was a guy named

1091
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: Jacob Jacob sober Off who came on my show and

1092
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: said he's now been subjected to five allegations of sexual assaults.

1093
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 1: I said, hold on, that's not true, and we went

1094
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: through and of course I had it at the ready

1095
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: because as all lawyers do about exactly what had been alleged.

1096
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: And you know, creepy poorn lawyer, as Tucker would say,

1097
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: Michael Avanadi's client, who was the worst of all of them? Um,

1098
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: and then and then there was the one that he

1099
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: was counting in there, which was the mother of some

1100
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: woman who may have been Brett Cavanaugh's girlfriend at some point, remember,

1101
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: is her daughter saying he drew her against the wall.

1102
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: And the NBC published that account. Oh my god. And

1103
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: by the way, the the actual daughter, the actual girlfriend

1104
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: later came out and said, that's that didn't happen. So

1105
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: if somebody had bothered to check with me, you might

1106
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: not have gone out on that limb. But this is

1107
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: this is how the news works. So you've got this guy,

1108
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: Jacob Soberrock out there saying five allegations of credible assault.

1109
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So? Yeah, Even while I was

1110
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: NBC on NBC, I was, I was outraged about what

1111
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: was being done to him. I think the blade before

1112
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: thing is it's not egregious for the media to report

1113
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: on that, and the facts on that deserve to be heard.

1114
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: Her testimonial. I was fine with her offering that testimonial.

1115
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: My own, you know, personal take as a lawyer on

1116
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: what probably happened there was you know, the concept in

1117
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: the law of the eggshell plaintiffs. Yes, and it's basically,

1118
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, some people are I don't want to say

1119
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: that the weaker is not the word I'm looking for,

1120
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: but no, that the people are out there who are

1121
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,439
Speaker 1: not aware of it, like the thin skull. Like if

1122
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: you accidentally hit somebody who has a thin skull, it's

1123
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: a it's a concept and a plaintiff law, you're responsible

1124
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: for what happens to them, but they can be impacted

1125
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: in a way that would not happen to the average person.

1126
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: Does that make sense like for people I'm trying to say,

1127
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: until way for people to understand it, that's exactly right.

1128
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: So you know, you sort of you don't know who

1129
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna hit, who you're dealing negligently hit the softball.

1130
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: You don't know how tough their skull is going to be.

1131
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: And my impression of her was she was a very

1132
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: fragile person who seemed very very nervous, very um maybe

1133
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: slightly not all together and U and so My impression was,

1134
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: this is a girl who may have had some sort

1135
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: of an interaction with the young Brett Havanaugh, and in

1136
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: her world it was something significant. In his world it

1137
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: was enoughing, and in the average woman's world it was

1138
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: it might have been nothing. And because I just I

1139
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: have a hard time believing she just totally made it

1140
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: up for political purposes to to kill the guy. Though

1141
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: I've seen that happen, I have definitely I don't rule

1142
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: that out, um, but I think to come with it

1143
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: thirty years later and expect this guy who's had a

1144
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: stellar record on the bench, not a whiff of problematic

1145
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: reports while he's been on the federal bench. In fact,

1146
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: to the contrary, so many female character witnesses, young girls,

1147
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: old women, talking about would an advocate he's been so nothing,

1148
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: nothing credible at all. Um. Is was really unfair because

1149
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: the guy there was no way he could defend himself.

1150
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: How do you I mean he tried, he had the

1151
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: journals and all that, and nobody remembered her story, including

1152
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: her own friend. UM. Anyway, so that's that's blasi forward.

1153
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 1: I didn't object to a media vetting of the claim

1154
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: she brought forward. Everyone else I feel very differently about.

1155
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: It was a huge smear job. It changed the Supreme

1156
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: Court nomination process forever. What the Democrats were doing to

1157
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh was disgusting and unforgivable. It was unforgivable the

1158
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: fact that they accused him of gang rape from this

1159
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: Julie Sweat Knicks allegations, which were completely and obviously focused

1160
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: from day one, day one. It was disgusting. And the

1161
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: fact that they would run with an allegation like that

1162
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: at places like NBC, but wouldn't run the Harvey Weinstein

1163
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: rape stories that Rose mcgallen was on the record with

1164
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: and other women were on the record with with NBC.

1165
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,919
Speaker 1: That's just one of the media that dropped the ball

1166
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: on It is egregious, right. It just tells you everything

1167
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: you need to know about bias. They protect the guy,

1168
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: the rich guy. He's donated to all the Democrats and

1169
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, he makes legal threats, so okay, peace out.

1170
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: By the way, they have their own, you know, predator

1171
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: inside the halls of NBC. As it turned out, um

1172
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: which recording to Roning was exactly why they didn't want

1173
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: to tell the story of Harvey Weinsteins. But as long

1174
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: as it's a Republican nominated of the Supreme Court. Have

1175
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: Adam go for it? Julie Sweat, Nick Michael Abanadi? How

1176
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: many times can we put you on television? Um? Anyway,

1177
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: to me, it was a travesty and we're gearing up

1178
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: for another one. That's what I was gonna say. We're

1179
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: talking before this. This is not going to go up

1180
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: till next week. But how much of a mess do

1181
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 1: you think this next day? And I guess what I

1182
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: should say because you got me fired up too. These

1183
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: are theoretically some of the brightest legal minds in politics

1184
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: that are on the Senate Judiciary Committee, sitting as Democrats, right,

1185
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: And I watched those hearings and I just thought to myself,

1186
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: how in the world could you ever think this makes

1187
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: sense as an objective lawyer? Right? The way that so

1188
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: many of those Democrats behaved, And I would like to

1189
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: think that Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee wouldn't behave

1190
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: the same way. We may have to wait a few

1191
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: years to find out, but to me, the precedent that

1192
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: the Kavanaugh here hearing set is effectively no one is

1193
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: eligible to be a Supreme Court justice because everybody's got

1194
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: something that somebody negative can say about them, even if

1195
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't rise to the level of being criminal. Well,

1196
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: that's the thing is like people are taking a hard

1197
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: look at Coney Barrett saying, oh, they're going to come

1198
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: after her for her faith or you know, for this

1199
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: ruling or for that ruling. They're going to come after anyone.

1200
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: If I were Trump, I would pick who I genuinely want,

1201
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, I would want to pick the one who

1202
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: would give me the best legacy on the bench with

1203
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: the rulings I hope for right that who's going to

1204
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: be institutionalist and originalists and represent, you know, my world

1205
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: view when it comes to law the best possible, because

1206
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: whoever it is is going to get killed unfairly by

1207
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: the press and by the Democrats. And I think you're

1208
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: doing more generous than I am. I don't look at

1209
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: those Democrat lawyers and think these are some of the

1210
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: best legal minds in the country. I really know very

1211
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: few people who have. I said, for Paul, for politicians,

1212
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,439
Speaker 1: they're some of the best legal minds, right, I mean

1213
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: that that's the best of the elected officials unfortunately, that

1214
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: have a law degrees that we could rely on. And

1215
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: I just sat there discussed it. I mean, you know,

1216
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Um And by

1217
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: the way, years why the Lindsay Graham moment was so huge.

1218
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: We all watched and I covered at length while the

1219
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: wall gavel, the gavel the Supreme Court confirmation hearing is

1220
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: in recent history of John Roberts, of Samuel Alito, of

1221
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: Lana Kagan, if Sonia Soto mayor, none of this happened.

1222
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: There was like a little Aldo who got a little

1223
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: bit unfairly beat up and his wife shed a tear. Right.

1224
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: It's like a sad moment in the in the process,

1225
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: that's it, And that was already more vicious than it

1226
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: used to be, other than bourk And to see them

1227
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: try to destroy this man, destroy him without any concern

1228
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: for the truth, for what, what would be admissible in

1229
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: a court of law, what's appropriate to report to an

1230
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: audience of millions, was infuriating. And so I think we're

1231
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: going to see it again. I think I don't know

1232
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: how to solve it. I think it's like a nuclear

1233
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:56,439
Speaker 1: arms race now where no one's gonna step down. Each

1234
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: side just keeps raising the anti Although all I can

1235
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: hope is that because I think Trump's going to fill

1236
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: the seat, and I think he's going to get his vote,

1237
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: and I think he's going to install the next justice

1238
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court. Um. And I don't think the Democrats.

1239
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: I I don't believe they're going to pull the trigger

1240
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: on unpastacking the court. Yeah. Yeah, I just I can't

1241
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: believe they do that. It's that is killing the Supreme Court.

1242
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court is done. If they do that, it's over.

1243
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: I just by the way I go that far. Yeah,

1244
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I was just gonna say, if you

1245
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: want to read about that, there's a fantastic book by

1246
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 1: Molly Hemingway h called Justice on Trial, the Kavanaugh Confirmation

1247
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: and the Future of the Supreme Court. It goes all

1248
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: the way through. Uh, it's an incredible book. Molly Hemmingway.

1249
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I get it right. And

1250
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: Carrie Severino did a phenomenal job on that. All right,

1251
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: I've kept you for a long time. Final question here

1252
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: because I'm always kind of curious. This is the Wins

1253
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: and Losses Podcast. I'm Clay Travis. We've been talking with

1254
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: Megan Kelly and by the way, this is fantas like

1255
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: I want to bring you on to talk when this

1256
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: when this process actually starts playing out on the Supreme Court, like,

1257
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: I feel like it's gonna be I feel like it's

1258
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: gonna be covered so poorly that I'm already fired up

1259
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 1: about just wanting to have a panel of smart lawyers

1260
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: who aren't trying to come at this from a like

1261
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you who I think should be on

1262
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, Right, I'm not the president. I probably

1263
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: would disagree with many of the rulings that Brett Kavanaugh

1264
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: would make, or Sonya Sada mayor for that purpose, whoever

1265
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: you want to point to, Right, But Brett Kavanaugh was

1266
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: imminently qualified and probably as good of a choice as

1267
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: Donald Trump could make. Right, Like regard if you're acknowledging

1268
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: that the Republican is going to make the choice, I

1269
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: think Amy Coney Barrett, based on everything that I know

1270
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: about her, and if research, is an eminently reasonable choice.

1271
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: This isn't George Bush trying to put Harriet Myers on

1272
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 1: the Court because he's good friends with her. You know,

1273
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: this is an eminently reasonable choice. And I just feel

1274
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: like the media by and large is going to do

1275
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: such an awful and crappy job of covering this that

1276
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: I feel like there has to be an outlet that

1277
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: can do a good job of it. And I'm sure

1278
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: you'll do a good job on your podcast, but I

1279
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: feel like that's being lost now. I couldn't agree more.

1280
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: And it did occur to me, you know, for the

1281
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: purposes of my launching this podcast. It was good timing,

1282
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, to have this battle. I do respect the

1283
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: work of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. For the record, I do

1284
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: think she was a liberal icon. She was She was

1285
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 1: a fighter for women. I refer not to what she

1286
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: did on the bench, but what she did as an

1287
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: advocate prior to that and at Harvard coming up in

1288
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: a man's world. So I mean respect, respect, And I

1289
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: loved her friendship with Scalia and they were an example

1290
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: and bipartisanship. Um. But this battle is going to require objective,

1291
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: fair voices out there where people know they can turn

1292
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: for the truth, the truth, and I know you're one

1293
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: of them, and I will be too. As soon as

1294
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: I get this thing launched the week of the twenty eight,

1295
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: we will be listening, all right. Final question, what do

1296
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: you wish you could go back and tell yourself when

1297
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: you walked out of the law firm and into your

1298
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: media career. That would have helped you the most to

1299
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: be prepared for what was to come. Mm hmm, wow.

1300
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: I might have said, you just turned back in there, girl, don't.

1301
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: You'll be a partner. You can become really successful there

1302
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: and you know, at some point you can ride off

1303
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: into the sunset. I mean, I got a lot of

1304
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: friends who who have stayed in the partner life and uh,

1305
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: and they're doing well. And the positive with that is

1306
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: you grind and it's a tough, tough job, but by

1307
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: and large, you don't have to worry about waking up

1308
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: and pulling out your phone and somebody is you know,

1309
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: somebody has come after you and you're trending, you know

1310
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: on on Twitter. You know. Okay on that front. The

1311
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: difference between your adversary coming after you in the practice

1312
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: of law in my experience, and those who come after you,

1313
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: as you know, in this profession and media is the

1314
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: lawyers still have honor. They do, not all of them,

1315
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 1: but for the most part, lawyers still have honor in

1316
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: my experience, and they they won't try to hurt you

1317
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 1: unfair early. Um. That's not the case in media. Their

1318
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: their business is to be unfair and unfactual in today's

1319
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: day and age, and so as frustrating as that can be,

1320
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: it is it is like that's our reality, and one

1321
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: just now has to learn how to navigate around it,

1322
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: and then, unfortunately help people who aren't in the media

1323
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: learned to navigate around it because they also live in

1324
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: a world of Facebook and Twitter where things they're just

1325
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: said about them that aren't true, and now they have

1326
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: to pussy foot around every issue when they're at their

1327
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: jobs lest they lose them, you know. And so I

1328
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: don't know. I just think the call is greater than

1329
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: ever to do what we're doing. But sure, I think

1330
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 1: in some ways my life would have been easier had

1331
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: I just taken that partnership and tried a bunch of

1332
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 1: cases and retired with you know, I guess in fifteen

1333
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: more years with it, with a fat pension of some sort. Um. Listen,

1334
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with this because I've mentioned my therapist

1335
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 1: several times. He's amazing. Um. After one one of the

1336
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,679
Speaker 1: many blow ups in my life or we were talking

1337
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: and uh, he said, you know, Megan, you don't always

1338
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: have to take the path of most resistance. And I thought,

1339
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: you know. If you know me at all, you know

1340
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: that I do. Some of us are just pugilistic by nature,

1341
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, the flame finds us. And I

1342
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: think that's brought great, great gifts into my life and

1343
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: some downsides as well, but I'm balanced. I wouldn't train

1344
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: any of it. This has been phenomenal. This has been fantastic.

1345
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: I would encourage all of you to go make sure

1346
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: that you subscribe to Megan Kelly's new podcast. Go follow

1347
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: her on Twitter at Megan Kelly. I'll tweet out the link.

1348
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: If you haven't followed her already, you can make sure

1349
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 1: you do it just in time for the Supreme Court

1350
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: confirmation battle that appears it's going to be eminent on

1351
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: the next few days. Megan, thank you so much. I

1352
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: know how busy you are. This was phenomenal. Look forward

1353
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: to being able to talk some time again down the line.

1354
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: Thanks Clay, I appreciate it. That is Megan Kelly. I'm

1355
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: Clay Travis. This has been wins and losses. Be sure

1356
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: to catch live editions about Kick the Coverage with Clay

1357
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,440
Speaker 1: Travis weekday. He's at six am Eastern three am Pacific,