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Speaker 1: Bodydas, but Joseph's gotten more. I just got back from

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Speaker 1: Great Britain. I spent most of the time that I

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Speaker 1: was over there in London, and the people over there

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Speaker 1: are just remarkably friendly. And here's why I know I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to do this, But on three separate occasions,

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Speaker 1: I had total strangers walk up to me and tell

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Speaker 1: me to take my phone out of my back pocket

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Speaker 1: and put it inside of my jacket. And the reason

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Speaker 1: they told me that is that there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of pickpockets around and apparently this is a huge thing

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Speaker 1: in London, and I just didn't really think about It's

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Speaker 1: something that you don't think about here in America that much,

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Speaker 1: I guess maybe if you live in New York, but

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Speaker 1: certainly certainly not in Alabama. And I thought, how horrible

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Speaker 1: would that be to have your pocket picked and then

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Speaker 1: somebody use your credit cards to buy things that they'd

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Speaker 1: always wanted. Now, let's take that and think a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the case I'm going to tell you about today. Imagine,

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Speaker 1: if you will, your lady who is estranged from your husband,

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Speaker 1: hadn't been together in a while, and then he kills you.

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Speaker 1: He takes your credit cards and goes out and purchases

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Speaker 1: cleaning supplies with them to clean up the mess that

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Speaker 1: he created from your homicide. That's what we're dealing with

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Speaker 1: today in the case of Crystal Rash. I'm Joseph Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Bags. Brother Dave, you ever

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Speaker 1: had your pocket picked?

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Speaker 2: When you were talking about that, I thought, what a

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Speaker 2: nice group of people, because we haven't been you and I,

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Speaker 2: Joe and I live very near one another geographically speaking,

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Speaker 2: although both of us are used to being in much

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Speaker 2: bigger cities, and it's one of the things that when

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Speaker 2: you were first talking about I thought, what a kind

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Speaker 2: thing to tell you. Except I remember being in the

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Speaker 2: city and I never put anything in my back pocket

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Speaker 2: in the city. I always put in my suit, coach

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Speaker 2: or in my front pocket. Yeah, basic things of life

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Speaker 2: in a big city. So you're in London.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I hope my son doesn't hear this, because every

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Speaker 1: time he goes out somewhere, tell him to put his

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Speaker 1: wallet in his front pocket, and that's your standard practice.

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Speaker 1: And he's going to hear this now because now it's

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Speaker 1: for the whole world, right, and he's going to chastise

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Speaker 1: me about it because I've been preaching to him, but

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Speaker 1: it's longer we get sorry.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was an amazing thing that somebody would

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Speaker 2: take the time to share that with you, whether they're

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Speaker 2: you know, in that big city all the time or

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Speaker 2: not recognizing. Hey, do they call us Yanks?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't hear that term very much, primarily Americans,

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Speaker 1: and they don't say it with a sneer, contrary with

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Speaker 1: some people might think everybody is just Look, everywhere has

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Speaker 1: got jerks. Okay, it doesn't matter where you are. You'd

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Speaker 1: be the smallest town in the south, and you think

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Speaker 1: you're going to run into totally hospitable people and you'll

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Speaker 1: run into a jerk. They're everywhere. But on the whole,

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Speaker 1: I have yet to have a bad experience. I've been

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Speaker 1: going to London Oil England for ten years, almost ten years.

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Speaker 1: People will bend over backwards to help you if you're lost,

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Speaker 1: and it's very easy to get lost in London because

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Speaker 1: it's so massive. But yeah, it was completely enjoyable. But

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Speaker 1: you know, interestingly enough, Kim and I while we were

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Speaker 1: over there, we went into one of the oldest, oldest

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Speaker 1: pubs still operational in London and there was a sign

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Speaker 1: when we walk when we walked in next to a

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Speaker 1: Guinness beer ad, an old Guinness beer ad. They had

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Speaker 1: a sign adjacent to it and it says take care

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Speaker 1: there are thieves about and wow, that's kind of chilling,

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Speaker 1: you know. And there was more than one sign like

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Speaker 1: that in the same specific of course, where this pub,

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Speaker 1: where this pub is Dave is actually located in Whitechapel,

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Speaker 1: where Jack the Ripper did perpetrated all of his cases.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, maybe there's.

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Speaker 2: A maybe that's why maybe they're saying it's there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, nefarious behavior.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you the way that you brought it

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Speaker 2: in there of in this day and age, when somebody

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Speaker 2: does get a hold of your credit cards, debit cards,

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Speaker 2: they can trash you pretty quick, you know. I actually

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Speaker 2: was at I was in a college town and had

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Speaker 2: to stop and get gas and needed some cash for

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Speaker 2: where I was going, So I went and used to

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Speaker 2: tell her at a convenience store, and two hours later,

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Speaker 2: I get a buzz on my phone from my bank

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Speaker 2: because there's somebody six hundred miles away trying to buy groceries.

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Speaker 2: And they're like, there's it's impossible, this doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 2: And I was able to stop the account, shut everything down.

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Speaker 2: I got hacked at that college town convenience store with

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Speaker 2: my teller machine, so people can tell you quickly. And

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up because it wasn't a

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Speaker 2: stranger danger that got her and the money. It was

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Speaker 2: somebody that she had shared a life with. And police

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Speaker 2: found out that Crystal Rash and her husband, Zachariah Rosh,

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Speaker 2: they did have separate bank accounts and they did not

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Speaker 2: plunder each other's accounts. They were separate, and they were

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Speaker 2: kept separate that neither one had permission from the other,

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Speaker 2: even in their married life, for going into that account.

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Speaker 2: And when the police are talking with Zachariah Rosh, that

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Speaker 2: became an important part of this case because Crystal Rush

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Speaker 2: went missing and they weren't even exactly sure when she vanished.

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Speaker 2: How many times have we had that on this show, Joe,

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Speaker 2: where we have a story about somebody who vanishes and

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Speaker 2: the closest person and to them doesn't bother to report

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Speaker 2: them missing. Ever, it was her husband didn't. He's last

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Speaker 2: person known to be with her. He does a reporter

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Speaker 2: missing her stepmother does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're talking, we're talking literally, I think twelve

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Speaker 1: days down range from when she was last seen. We

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Speaker 1: have to back up and say that she was last

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Speaker 1: seen or known to be alive, back on June the eleventh.

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Speaker 1: She was not reported missing until June twenty third, So

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Speaker 1: there's this big delay. And as we have talked about

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Speaker 1: on body bags beforehand, the longer we moved down that timeline,

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Speaker 1: the more things get diminished. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: not only do things get diminished by time and where

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Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things that we look at

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Speaker 1: as these kind of outside factors in cases, but also

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Speaker 1: get diminished by further and nefarious activity. So if you've

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Speaker 1: got this huge gap of Tom Dave and you have

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Speaker 1: a suspect that still has control over, say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a human remain, then it's during that period of time

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Speaker 1: this individual can do just about anything that they want

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Speaker 1: to do with a victim's body. And in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: there are some pretty ghastly things that have happened here,

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Speaker 1: my friend.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, Joe, because yeah, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: June eleventh, that's our starting point. That's the last time

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Speaker 2: anyone remembers seeing Crystal Rush. And actually the proof is

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Speaker 2: in the pudding. She was Crystal Rosh was seen at

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Speaker 2: a thrift store with Zachariah Rosh, her husband. Now granted

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Speaker 2: he is estranged, Okay, she has filed for divorce. They

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Speaker 2: are not living together as husband and wife. They're in

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Speaker 2: the process of a divorce that was instigated by Crystal.

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Speaker 2: But they are seen together on surveillance cameras in the

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Speaker 2: store shopping together on June eleventh. But what gets this

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Speaker 2: whole ball rolling is that's the last time. Because as

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Speaker 2: the days go on and she doesn't have a lot

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Speaker 2: of contact with people, and finally her stepmother sees her car.

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Speaker 2: Her stepmother sees Crystal's car and realizes she hasn't talked

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Speaker 2: to her, not getting return calls or return message. I mean,

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Speaker 2: these little things start piling up. But when friends started

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Speaker 2: getting messages from Crystal, the messages didn't ring true. And

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Speaker 2: so as police get notified on the twenty third by

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Speaker 2: Crystal's stepmother can't get her. Her car's over here, I

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Speaker 2: don't know where she is. Would you do a quick

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Speaker 2: check on this for me? The police are already almost

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Speaker 2: two weeks behind the eight ball. Yeah, So they start

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Speaker 2: digging through everything and that's what led them to bringing

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Speaker 2: in Zachariah Raj. They wanted to know why were you shopping,

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Speaker 2: why were you buying cleaning supplies? And why are you

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Speaker 2: using Crystal's bank card? You know, that's that doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: to be the proper thing for an estranged husband to do.

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Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. And here here's kind of an interesting

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Speaker 1: little tidbit here. If you want to kind of get

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Speaker 1: an inside peek at all this, Dave, you look back,

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Speaker 1: you know, retrospectively. I think you know, kind of conducting

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Speaker 1: this retroactive investigation where they're going back.

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Speaker 2: Is that normal?

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Speaker 1: Really? Yeah? Yeah, it is. You have to. You have

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Speaker 1: to go back as far as you can. Because listen,

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Speaker 1: if if you're working a case that you suspect is

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Speaker 1: missing or is a homicide or both, you have to

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Speaker 1: I think in all of our minds, we began to

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Speaker 1: think about, well, what is it that connects what previous

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Speaker 1: events connect the victim and the disappearance in their death?

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Speaker 1: And so you have to go back in that anti

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Speaker 1: mortem state and try to build that out. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's a daunting task, but you know, it's less daunting

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Speaker 1: when you have numbers, Dave. And here here's something a

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Speaker 1: little tidbit for all our friends. When they did a

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Speaker 1: search of Crystal's financial records, what really kind of stood

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Speaker 1: out is that on June the third, she had a

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Speaker 1: balance in her bank account of over nine thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: You jump all the way forward to June twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: that's down to twenty nine hundred dollars. Now, listen, you know,

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Speaker 1: you could say, well, you know she got paid. You know,

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Speaker 1: you get paid the first of the month, and you know,

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Speaker 1: when you've got more going out than you've got coming

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Speaker 1: in and you're paying bills and whatnot, Yeah, you would

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Speaker 1: expect there to be a diminishment at funds. But that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty striking amount. So over that five dollars, ye, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, precisely, man, So how do you account

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Speaker 1: for that? And the thing about it is nowadays, if

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Speaker 1: you're using a card which is easily tracked, if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a debit card, for instance, and you're going in,

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Speaker 1: you're swiping this thing for every time. You know, we

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Speaker 1: talk a lot about cell phones, don't we, Dave, and

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Speaker 1: we forget what gets caught, It gets left in the dust.

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Speaker 1: Here is that for a long long time, we've been

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Speaker 1: able to track people with their financial records. You know,

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Speaker 1: you go and you utilize a debit card somewhere. Well,

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Speaker 1: every time you do a strike on one of those

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Speaker 1: cards that literally pinpoints the location where it puts you,

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Speaker 1: you know that card is going to be in hand.

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Speaker 1: Somebody has to actually utilize that card in order to

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Speaker 1: make this happen. Now, I guess you know, you could

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Speaker 1: say that you know, well, maybe they were online purchases

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Speaker 1: and things like that, but still those things are trackable,

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Speaker 1: and this is I think moving forward with this case.

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Speaker 1: I think this is going to be damning, damning information

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Speaker 1: because Dave is always been said, and I don't know

201
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Speaker 1: that it necessarily rings true, but it does. Sometimes money

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Speaker 1: is the root of all evil. Well, you know, Dave,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that you know that that's necessarily a

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Speaker 1: true statement that I just made. People have quoted that

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Speaker 1: for years and years. Money is the root of all evil,

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Speaker 1: the love of money. It is the love of money.

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Speaker 1: But there's also something else that comes along with us.

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Speaker 1: And I've said many times that most of us are

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Speaker 1: at more are at more peril uh at the hands

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Speaker 1: of the person that we're in bed with, than we

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Speaker 1: are on some stranger and sometimes that you know, things

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Speaker 1: come about, anger, jealousy, possessiveness, you know, all those things

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Speaker 1: that come around, and I would argue, I could argue

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Speaker 1: the point that they those things rival and their ferocity

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Speaker 1: probably even more than the love of money that would

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Speaker 1: drive and you know the fact that you're stealing from

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Speaker 1: a dead person after the fact, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: it's really grimmy, isn't it, you know when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, insult to injury, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about the when police

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Speaker 2: are tracking this and they're going to start with, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we got the phone call on the twenty third, don't

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Speaker 2: We don't know where she is. And so as they

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Speaker 2: start looking back, they're going to try to find the

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Speaker 2: last time they can identify Crystal Zara Rosh being somewhere.

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Speaker 2: And so once they can identify it, we know she

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Speaker 2: was here, do they start going from like Juna love

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Speaker 2: now and saying, okay, where was she on the twelfth,

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Speaker 2: let's find out? Yeah, And then they hit that part

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Speaker 2: where now we don't know we know that this is

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Speaker 2: absolutely last day. Okay. Now they look at in this case,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned the bank statements, and you can see where

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Speaker 2: they started and how it ended yet we don't have

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Speaker 2: any proof of life after June eleventh, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of expenders do. They then break down what was he

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Speaker 2: buying and was he with anyone? Because there's surveillance video

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Speaker 2: at these places, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are. And that's the other thing. There's

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Speaker 1: three big components here to this case from a forensics perspective.

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Speaker 1: First off, you've got the financials, which I think is

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Speaker 1: standing alone. They're damning. And then you know we had

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Speaker 1: mentioned the text or you did specifically these text messages.

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Speaker 1: How many cases have we covered over the year's day

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Speaker 1: where we've got somebody that will get their hands on

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Speaker 1: somebody's mobile device and start to pretend that it's they're acting.

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Speaker 1: They're acting as the decedent, you know, trying to play

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Speaker 1: the game out if you will put people off sin.

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Speaker 1: So you're going to have digital records as far as

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Speaker 1: phone records go. And then on top of that, I

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Speaker 1: think that what's crucial here are going to be these

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Speaker 1: CCTV records as well. Boy, you've got individuals that are

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Speaker 1: coming in and out, and you marry that up with

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Speaker 1: the financial statements where you're going in to purchase things.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got CCTV of them actually purchasing things. Boys,

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Speaker 1: that's a that is a huge amount of evidence to

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Speaker 1: present the accused with by the police.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was thinking about the CCTV cameras because

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Speaker 2: when you were in London, you know, at Crime Con London.

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Speaker 2: For those of you don't know, there's a show on

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Speaker 2: body bags, you know that Joe did with an incredible

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Speaker 2: It was blood spatter and everything else. It was just

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Speaker 2: really brilliant and Joe Millington, her voice is so soothing.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I just wanted to tell her, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what do you want me to admit to because I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'll do it just to hear her talk. It was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I found myself it's the old Mike Myers thing

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Speaker 1: from Coffee Talk on SNL who said it's like but uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so yeah, that's that's the way Joe's

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Speaker 1: voice is.

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Speaker 2: But I thought about that with London and all the

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Speaker 2: CCTV cameras there.

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Speaker 1: And they are everywhere.

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Speaker 2: But Europe is a different place than the United States.

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Speaker 2: You know, everything's closer together and here in the United

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Speaker 2: States we're spread out a little bit, so we don't

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Speaker 2: have necessarily cameras on every street corner, but in every

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Speaker 2: place you're going to use a card pretty much under

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Speaker 2: surveillance because it's so cheap.

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Speaker 1: Now, so you've got that, yeah, you've got card. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's just say you go to an ATM. Well there's

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Speaker 1: videography with that, uh and and then you know, and

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Speaker 1: they're all over banks and then some ATM machines actually

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Speaker 1: have uh you know, CCTV contained therein so you can

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Speaker 1: see it. And there's been cases, you know, where you've

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Speaker 1: got a perpetrator using a card, you got a clear

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Speaker 1: shot of their face and you know with you were

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Speaker 1: comparing you know how it is in London where you've

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Speaker 1: got cameras everywhere, and you look at the coburger k

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Speaker 1: where they're just they're trying to scrape together anything that

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Speaker 1: can of the of the white Sedan, remember that, you know,

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Speaker 1: passing by stores. They did the twenty mile loop. And

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Speaker 1: in our case with Crystal, you know, the thing that

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Speaker 1: is going to be so damning with this is that

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Speaker 1: you've got multiple points of contact. And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we look for in forensics. We try

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Speaker 1: to take as much of the data, whether you know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about forensic toxicology, we're talking about DNA, or

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Speaker 1: we're talking about electronic are in financial data, and we're

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Speaker 1: trying to connect the dots and see if there's any

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Speaker 1: overlay with a lot of these things, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of any kind of connectivity between these and they're going

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Speaker 1: to have a lot of this, I think. And if

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Speaker 1: you want to take it to another level, some of

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Speaker 1: the items that Zachary Rash was purchasing, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: now hold on to your head. Where talking about cleaning

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Speaker 1: supplies and and drum roll sulfuric acid and so get that.

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Speaker 2: Is there any bration forgetting cleaning supplies and acid?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So when you begin to think about the nature

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Speaker 1: of sulfuric acid, it's obviously it's it's highly highly caustic,

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Speaker 1: so it will burn you, it will clean, It's used

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Speaker 1: to clean surfaces many times. And I'll tell you one

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Speaker 1: of the one of the utilities that it has actually

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Speaker 1: is you can take it, for instance, like if you

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Speaker 1: have a car port, right and you've got oil stains

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Speaker 1: that are on the car port, you can actually take

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Speaker 1: this stuff and apply it directly directly to that surface

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Speaker 1: in order to get to get those stains off. Of

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Speaker 1: those surfaces, and it will you know, it'll be used.

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Speaker 1: It has multiple uses, you know in industry, everything from

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Speaker 1: explosives to making a paint to just tons and tons

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Speaker 1: of things. But you know, you have to think about, well,

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Speaker 1: what would have been his purpose for wanting sulphuric acid?

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Speaker 1: Because this is in fact an industrial They just latch

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Speaker 1: onto these words industrial cleaning agent. So it's it's so

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Speaker 1: caustic that you could actually take it, and I think

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people believe that you can take

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Speaker 1: it and you can actually render down a body with it.

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Speaker 1: Well maybe you can remove stains with it and those

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. So it's very very dangerous.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking you're getting an industrial cleaner. What did you

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Speaker 2: eat that has to be cleaned with the uric acid?

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Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense at all. Now what we

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Speaker 2: have here is we got some facts. We've got money

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Speaker 2: being spent by you, mister Rash, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: we're charging you now with spending your wife's money without

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Speaker 2: her permission. That's we don't know where she is, but

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Speaker 2: we know you spent money that you've already told us

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Speaker 2: you don't. Because that was during their interview. They brought

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Speaker 2: him in and said, you know, you were spending her

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Speaker 2: money in her card and we can't find her. Did

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Speaker 2: you have permission to use her card while she's gone?

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Speaker 2: And he's like, no, we don't do that, and you

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Speaker 2: realize that's against the law, right, and so they charged him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's and I'm glad you brought that updated.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a salient point because if you if you have,

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Speaker 1: if you suspect somebody, and we see this played out

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Speaker 1: over and over in crimes, and I urge anybody that

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Speaker 1: follows to crime you look for for these individuals that

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Speaker 1: where the police are looking to charge them with something

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Speaker 1: more specific, probably more horrific, and they will on secondary

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Speaker 1: charges to hang on them just so that they can

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Speaker 1: hold them on this. But you know the fact that

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Speaker 1: this was a theft of thousands of dollars. First off,

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Speaker 1: This just the theft alone puts it into the felonious category.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about a felony that you're being charged

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Speaker 1: with in most states. You know, you look at the

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Speaker 1: way it has been in the past. If you if

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Speaker 1: you steal something of value or like an item, or

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Speaker 1: if you steal steal moneies and it's over four hundred

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Speaker 1: ninety nine dollars point ninety nine cents. That's that's a

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Speaker 1: felony count. And so every time, every time you go

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Speaker 1: and you withdraw, say, for instance, something above that above

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Speaker 1: that level, these would be individual counts that you could

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Speaker 1: credit them with and hold them there. And so you

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Speaker 1: can present us to a magistrate and say, look, you know,

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Speaker 1: look sir, we've got we've got this individual we're charging.

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Speaker 1: He's gotten more felony felt any offenses that were charging

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Speaker 1: him with. We didn't make sure he doesn't get out

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Speaker 1: of jail. And all the while, in the background, the

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Speaker 1: police are working the case of Crystal, who to this

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Speaker 1: point is missing. You have no idea what's happened to her,

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Speaker 1: but what you do know is that she's being robbed

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Speaker 1: and the individual that robbed her has gone out and

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Speaker 1: purchased items that would be consistent with trying to eradicate

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Speaker 1: any kind of evidence, either of the body or the

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Speaker 1: spilling of blood. And I think that those you know,

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Speaker 1: you couple all of that together. They had to hold

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Speaker 1: this guy, Dave.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was thinking about other crimes we've covered

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Speaker 2: where police ended up charging suspects with other crimes, trying

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Speaker 2: to put them on ice a little bit, Yeah, to

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Speaker 2: get to the bottom of it. And what came to

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Speaker 2: mind was Haley Cummings, the little girl who went missing

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the night when he seventeen year

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Speaker 2: old babies that are watching her and her dad and

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Speaker 2: the baby center of getting married. And anyway, they had

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Speaker 2: them charged with a couple of different crimes along the way,

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Speaker 2: and it was a substantial amount of time. All the while,

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Speaker 2: I thought the charges seemed to be get pushed a

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Speaker 2: little bit to keep them in jail, separated, to get

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Speaker 2: them to talk about what happened to Haley, you know,

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Speaker 2: and that never happened. We still don't know what happened

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Speaker 2: to Haley Cummings. But in this case, we've got a

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Speaker 2: guy who has, by his own admission, admitted to a

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Speaker 2: crime of using his wife's money hair card, her account

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Speaker 2: that he wasn't entitled to because he told them, no,

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Speaker 2: we don't she's not allowed to use mind, I'm not

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Speaker 2: supposed to use hers.

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Speaker 1: So there you go.

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Speaker 2: We're going to lock up for this one. Think about

401
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Speaker 2: that for a little while.

402
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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the motivation behind this is to make sure

403
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Speaker 1: that you're keeping them off the streets because okay, let's

404
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Speaker 1: just say we've already got this gap of tom where

405
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Speaker 1: Crystal's been missing, right right, I mean we viral on admission.

406
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Speaker 1: We talked about this in the first segment of our program,

407
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Speaker 1: where she has been seen load these many days, and

408
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Speaker 1: Lord only knows what has become of her remains at

409
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Speaker 1: this point in time. Well, let's just say you get

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Speaker 1: this individual incarcerated, you don't hold them, or you decide

411
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Speaker 1: not to affect an arrest on him early on, Well,

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Speaker 1: you're just giving him more time because if he knows

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Speaker 1: where she's at, he can continue to do whatever it

414
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Speaker 1: is that he's doing with cleaning supplies. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: the more time you have where he's out walking the streets,

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Speaker 1: the colder and colder this case becomes. And that's always

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Speaker 1: a problem. But you know what, I think the police

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Speaker 1: happened upon something that would make even the strongest among

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Speaker 1: us shudder in horror. Well, Dave, I want to throw

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Speaker 1: a list out to you, brother and kind of get

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Speaker 1: your reaction to this. All right, So you're a cop, right,

422
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Speaker 1: you're a detective, and you get your hands on a

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Speaker 1: suspect's phone and you begin to break this thing down

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Speaker 1: to check out what kind of searches they've been doing

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Speaker 1: on the phone. It just bear with me now and

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Speaker 1: listen to this list that I'm going to give to you.

427
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Speaker 1: You've got on here May twenty eighth, you've got searches

428
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Speaker 1: relative to gunshot ones to the chest versus the head.

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Speaker 1: All right, If that's not chilling enough, you get to

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Speaker 1: June eleventh, and you've got a Google search for well,

431
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: a nine millimeter kill an animal if shot to the head,

432
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: and then on June the twelfth, search for carpet cleaner.

433
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: He jumped to the twenty third. Hey, here's a question

434
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: that's been posed in a search engine. Can police get

435
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: search warrants on Sunday? And Wisconsin? Kind of od? On

436
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: the twenty fourth of June, search queries included sulfuric acid,

437
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: including is sulphuric acid flammable? And let's finish it off

438
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: with this one June twenty fifth, the subject who you

439
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: now have the possession of his phone, Dave, Wisconsin, missing

440
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: person alert that was searched out. So you take that

441
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: in its totality. If you're an investigator, do you start

442
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: having that little bell go off in your brain?

443
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: You know?

444
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: That look, we might be onto something here. You know,

445
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you proofs into pudding man when he.

446
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 2: Looked up on June twenty third, we know that that

447
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: was the day Crystal raw stepmother called police and asked

448
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: them to do a welfare check because she hadn't seen

449
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: her and she had seen Crystal's car, but no sign

450
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: of Crystal. So June twenty third police do a welfare check,

451
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: and it's on that date that he searches. Can police

452
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: get search warrants on a Sunday in Wisconsin? Well, June

453
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: twenty third is a Sunday, So the very day stepmom

454
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: reports Crystal missing is the same day her husband as

455
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: strange though he may be actually searches. Can they get it?

456
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: Do I have basically, hey, do I have time to

457
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: clean up anything else before they show up? By the way,

458
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: I think police can get a search warrant whenever a

459
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: judge will sign.

460
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: It any day, and there's always a magistrate standing boss

461
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: expressly for this purpose. And generally folks might know this,

462
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: Folks might not know this. There will be what the

463
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: way this happens? When you go to get a search warrant,

464
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: there's generally a junior assistant disc attorney that's on call.

465
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: So the way this works is you under their direction.

466
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: Because warrants have to be very specific, you can't just

467
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: can you tell us, explain that a little bit, Joe.

468
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know it.

469
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: Until I started actually covering a lot of crime, I

470
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: didn't realize what they I thought they could just say,

471
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: I think Joe Scott Morgan has X y Z in

472
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: his house and this is why I think it, and

473
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 2: the judge goes, okay, and that's not it at all.

474
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: They actually have to do some very specific crafting of

475
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: the case. The search warrant alone will tell you what

476
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: police already know.

477
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, what they already know. It's a big revealed. The

478
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: old adage, you know, a wide net catches a lot

479
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: of fish, does not apply to a warrant. You have

480
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: to be very specific as to what you want. So

481
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: you can't just say, uh, and that's for our own

482
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: constitutional protections. You want it. I want to trust me.

483
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: You want it. You don't want somebody to say, Okay,

484
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm writing up a search warrant for Dave max home

485
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: and we're showing up with this piece of paper. Let

486
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: us in. We're going to search your entire house. Like

487
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, they can't go in pulling the walls apart

488
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: and digging into what they refer to as hidden spaces

489
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: if they're not specifically enumerated in that search warrant. You

490
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: have to say where you're going to look and what

491
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: you're looking for. So he has an awareness at least

492
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: that they're on to him, I think at least. And

493
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: so if you've back to what I was saying, if

494
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: you've got like a junior district attorney that's on call,

495
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: they will be on call. The police can go to

496
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: that individual and say, here, take your fantasy law degree,

497
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: look at this warrant that we've written up, and make

498
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: sure that it passes muster. Because once they take it

499
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: from them, they're going to take it to the judge,

500
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: last magistrate. They're going to look at it and they

501
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: will go over it and they'll say this needs to

502
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: be corrected, this needs to be need you to expand

503
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: on this, whatever the case might be, and you have

504
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: to go back, you might have to do a rewrite

505
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: on it. It's like it's almost like English class, only

506
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot more at stake here. Okay, So you know,

507
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: once you get that warrant. You go in there and

508
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: you begin to search. But here's something that's really chilling, Dave.

509
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: When you begin to match these dates up. Remember what

510
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: we said, the last time Crystal was known to be

511
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: alive was back on jun the eleventh. Well that search

512
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: the search for Junior eleventh, that's enumerated here. Now, if

513
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: this doesn't send a chill up and down your spine,

514
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: will a nine millimeter kill an animal if shot in

515
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: the head? Okay, that was searched the same date that

516
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: she was last known to be alive, you'd jump ahead

517
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: to the twelfth. And this even gives it mor of

518
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: a chill. He's looking for carpet clean at that point

519
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: in Tom. So, if we're you know, if we're kind

520
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: of broadly looking at the thing, trying to determine, well,

521
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: what the heck has happened here, you know, it would

522
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: lead us to believe at least that she was shot,

523
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: and then she was shot on a carpeted surface. Now

524
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: you think about, well, what links are you going to

525
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: have to go to to clean this mess up? Because

526
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, we we have the luxury as forensics people.

527
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: We go into an environment that's kind of frozen in

528
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: tom for us. Once we've gotten everybody out of let's

529
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: say it's a standing structure like a home. Once we've

530
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: gotten that person out of that environment, we lock this

531
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: thing down and it's frozen. They're not going to get

532
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: back access to it. And dude, we're you know, whereas

533
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: you have somebody that flies into a fit of rage

534
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: to pull out a gun, in this case, it doesn't

535
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: sound like flying into a fit of rage. It sounds

536
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: a bit planned to me. But in any case, you

537
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: shoot them. Well, you know, when you shoot somebody like this,

538
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: if you're one of these people that does this, you

539
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: don't count on the volume of blood you're going to have.

540
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: You don't count on the mess that you're going to have.

541
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: So suddenly, this individual, if he is the person that

542
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: did this, he's looking at a body. They're at his

543
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,959
Speaker 1: feet and he's got this giganic mess that he's got

544
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: to clean up and to boot. It's on a carpeted surface,

545
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: which makes it even more difficult.

546
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: When looking at the dates. June eleventh, they're at the

547
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: goodwill store together, seen on video together, and then after

548
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: that she's not seen again, but he is seen spending

549
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: her money. That's what landed him in jail. By the way,

550
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: he was in jail a week after she is reported missing.

551
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: She's reported missing on June twenty third, or well, that's

552
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: when they actually started looking for her, and a week

553
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: later her husband. They've already zeroed in on him. We've

554
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: always said they always look at the closest person to

555
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: the individual, and they lock him up on the financial crimes,

556
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: using the card he wasn't entitled to and then buying

557
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: these cleaning supplies, acid and whatnot. So it's months later

558
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: you know they're investigating. And it's interesting because once they

559
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: had him in the clink, they were able. They went

560
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: ahead and got a search one for the house June

561
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: twenty sixth, and there were two different trips out to

562
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: the property Joe, separated by a couple of days. The

563
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: first day they get on the property, they find a

564
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: number of cars. One in particular catches their attention. It's

565
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: a twenty twenty three Mitsubishi that I'm a little confused

566
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: on some of the titling here, but it was known

567
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: to be Crystal's car, and it was parked on the

568
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: property in such a way that if you were driving

569
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: by the property, you wouldn't see it.

570
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: It's obscured from the road.

571
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of a hint to police. Look at

572
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: this car. Yeah, the floor in the middle of the

573
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: parking lot is not going to be their main attention.

574
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you how seriously they took it.

575
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: They loaded this car up and flatbeded it, and so

576
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: they've gone back. They've taken this car to the Wisconsin

577
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: State Police Lab where they have a forensics garage. And

578
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: so when we can take a car into a garage

579
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: like this, we have everything at our disposal, everything from

580
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: alternative light sources which you're talking about, like infrared, these

581
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: sorts of things where we've got these different spectrums of

582
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: light where we can analyze things, because you know, just

583
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: a regular household lighting situation is not the most ideal environment.

584
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: Certainly flashlights aren't to pick up on little nuances. You

585
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: use the light source that you have and certain things

586
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: will rise to the top. You might even have to

587
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: wear special glasses to look through in order to facilitate

588
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: this analysis. If you're using if you're using certain types

589
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: of light sources that we utilize in crime senge investments.

590
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: Is kind of the stuff we see on TV.

591
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: Then yeah, you see it and they make it and

592
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: it's very dramatic, you know, Yeah, And I got to

593
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: tell you it's very boring and it's tedious. When you're

594
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: going to.

595
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: Til you see something explode on the screen.

596
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, at that moment time, it's almost you know,

597
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: it's almost a Eureka moment. But part of you is

598
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: kind of expecting to see it, And so when you

599
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 1: find it, you try to remain as political and detached

600
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: as you can because you have to document this very,

601
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: very thoroughly while you have that car. And also, here's

602
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: the other thing. If you get that car in there

603
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: and you've got evidence that some type of trauma has

604
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: taken place in there on any level, you have to

605
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: make the decision, Well, am I going to cut this

606
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: piece of carpet out? Am I going to take the

607
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: headliner out? Am I going to take the entire seat? Dave,

608
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: I've been in courtrooms where it seems like, piece by

609
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: piece they brought an entire car into a courtroom. Of

610
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: course I'm going over the top with that, but every

611
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: internal element of the car, in the cab of the

612
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: car has been brought in, steering wheels, gear levers, dashboards, seats, headliners, carpeting, everything,

613
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: and so after it's been tested, you know, you try

614
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: to determine first off, what is it. If you're looking

615
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: for blood, you don't know that that's blood when you

616
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: see it. Okay, if it's blood, is it human blood

617
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: or animal blood? If it's human blood, then what type

618
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: of blood is it? As far as blood typing? And

619
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: then DNA wise, you go back and you try to

620
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: determine if this blood belongs to the individual. It might

621
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: be missing, and so you but you want that car

622
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: in an environment where you can really go through it

623
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb. But you know they had

624
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: something else, did they, Dave. They didn't just have the

625
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: car that they were looking at. They found elements out.

626
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: They found burn residue. They found burn residue in the yard.

627
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: And this is what got my attention, Joe, because of

628
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,959
Speaker 2: a couple of cases that we've done. I knew right away.

629
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: You know, in a number of places around this great nation,

630
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: we have burn piles in our yards and fields and

631
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: things like that. Yeah, but a burn pile is different

632
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: than a burned area. You can tell it my house

633
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: where the burn pile is. Right at this particular house,

634
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: they called it burn residue. Yeah, they could tell there

635
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: had been a fire here. That to me meant not

636
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 2: a burn pit, burn pile, but a fire took place

637
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: in this spot, not a regular burn place.

638
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

639
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true or not. It just

640
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: struck me like that.

641
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: It's the wording is odd in this particular case. It

642
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: sounds almost like it was randomized. But here's the thing

643
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: about it, Dave, is that when they begin to kind

644
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: of sift through this area, they do begin to turn up.

645
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: Now they've reached a point now in this investigation where

646
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: they have had to reach out to a forensic anthropologist.

647
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: So anytime anytime you do that at a scene, first off,

648
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: you're either recovering something that you don't know what you

649
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: are recovering okay as a cop, and generally what will happen.

650
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: You'll see something odd on the ground and it's one

651
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: of those moments. It's one of those moments, and I've

652
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: been part of them several times over my career. It's

653
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: one of those moments where you say freeze, red light,

654
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: and everybody freezes and you say, I don't know what

655
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: this is. And generally you'll call one of your other

656
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: colleagues over there to look at it, and somebody will

657
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: look at you and say, I don't know what that is,

658
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: but dog on, that looks like bone. It could be

659
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: charred bone. We need to call the people at the university,

660
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: and generally, you know, forensic anthropologists. I think a lot

661
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: of people think that these people have some kind of

662
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: standalone office that are out there. You know, Hi, you

663
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: know forensic anthropologists here. It's not the way it works.

664
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: There's not enough yet there as well there.

665
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: I'm not Joe, you're I'm not kidding. I thought that

666
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 2: the police knowe. Hey, we got here's the guy closest.

667
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: It's a Sunday called Bill. He's up there in Jacksonville.

668
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: He can be there in fifteen minutes.

669
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: It's not like these guys are not They're all. Most

670
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: of them that you come across work at a university.

671
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: So they're teaching. They're teaching, they're doing research. That's where

672
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: you're going to find most of them. Every now and

673
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: then you might find an independent person that's out there

674
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: that have kind of gone out on their own. But

675
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: there's not enough work to, you know, for forensic anthropologists

676
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: to be able to do these things. Lots of times

677
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: you'll find them in museums. As a matter of fact,

678
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: two of the finest in the history of the US

679
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologists worked at Smithsonian and so, and that's been

680
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: portrayed in movies and that sort of thing over the years.

681
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 2: You have to go to those types of people to

682
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: get them to go out into the They're going to

683
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: go up in this guy's you backyard and sift through

684
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 2: his dirt pile or dirt.

685
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: Let me say something, forensic anthropologists live for this stuff. Oh,

686
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: this is what they do. Trust me, it is they wait.

687
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like the firefighter. They're reactive.

688
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: They're sitting there and they're waiting for the alarm to

689
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: go off. But you know, here's the thing you were

690
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: talking about. We're going to call Bill, they're on call

691
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: or whatever. You do not, I mean, you do not

692
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: want to be in this position and say who can

693
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: we call. So most of the time with police departments,

694
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: they will already have a relationship with these individuals, with

695
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologists who are going to study bones or skeletal remains.

696
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: And then you're going to have a relationship with a

697
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: forensic odentologist who is a forensic dentist. And this is

698
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: not somebody where you can just go into the well.

699
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: I was about to say, go into the yellow pages

700
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: that don't exist anymore, but Google search these people and

701
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: they're just around the block. You have to have these relationships,

702
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: and even with forensic odentologists, which people might find. I

703
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: don't know, some people might find this kind of off putting,

704
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: if you will. I've worked with forensic odentologists, the forensic

705
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: dentist that worked two in particular that were mentors of

706
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: mine that worked at LSU Dental School School of Dentistry,

707
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: that were dental professors, but being an odental just was

708
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: not their full time gig. But you know, I worked

709
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: with a guy in Atlanta that was our odentologist with

710
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: the Medical Examiner in Atlanta. Well, he's a he's a

711
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: private dentist. He's digging people's mouths, cleaning their teeth and filling,

712
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: doing fillings and extractions and all that stuff. Oh and

713
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: by the bye, he's also doing forensic odentology where he

714
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: would go out and examine decomposing human remains and look

715
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: at the teeth and remove the jaws and do all

716
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: these sorts of things that those guys do so they

717
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: this case actually involves two of these individuals because they

718
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: found they found what turned out to be bone chips

719
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: in the area adjacent to where what was that phraseology?

720
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: You burn site, A burn site, a burned site where

721
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: you're going to have these what I like to refer

722
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: to it as you're going to have these kind of

723
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: deposits of carbon and it'll be black most of the time,

724
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: and you'll see this this kind of scorched area. I

725
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: think my question is was this area dugout at all?

726
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: And if it was dug out, how deep did it go? I,

727
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: miss I actually gave you the wrong phrase. Investigators saw

728
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: burn residue on June twenty sixth Okay, right, it was

729
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: June thirtieth. That's when they came out there with a

730
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: medical examiner and other investigators. They revisit the burn residue

731
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: and they refer to it now as the burn site

732
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: burn site. And so what they're going to have if

733
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: they have burn residue, it's pretty clear you're probably going

734
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: to have what appears to be at least maybe charred wood,

735
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: charred leaves. There'll be evidence on the ground on the

736
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: surface area where something hot has count contacted that area

737
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: to the point where maybe you have grass that was

738
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: underlying the area that is now scorched. All right, But

739
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: if you're talking about particulated bone, which sounds like what

740
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: we're dealing with, like bone chips, Dave, it would take

741
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: and I know I've mentioned this before, but just hear

742
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: me out. It would take so much time, and time

743
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: is what we're dealing with here. It would take so

744
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: much time to render down a human remain to the

745
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: point where you could particulate it where you only have

746
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: bone chips left. I remind our friends that you know,

747
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: with a crematorium, which is an enclosed oven that has

748
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: an ongoing natural gas supply, in order to render down

749
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: an average human body, we're talking fourteen hundred to eighteen

750
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: hundred degrees fahrenheit, and that's sustained. That sustained. It's the

751
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: difference between and this is so grotesque, but it is

752
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: truly the difference between cooking cooking in an oven as

753
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: opposed to holding something over an open fire and cooking

754
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: it so you would and what that means is that

755
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: this would have been a labor intensive event if they're

756
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: trying to render down the body in that spot, and

757
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: most of the time. Once you've rendered down a body,

758
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: many people will go to the next length, which will

759
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: mean that they're going to try to particulate the body.

760
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: They're going to try to break it down and diminish

761
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: it as greatly as it can. But I think they've

762
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: the one saving grace here. Going back to our friends

763
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: in forensic idontology. They recovered a tooth, didn't.

764
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: They find a tooth?

765
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 3: One tooth is all they're saying they found. But they

766
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 3: found a tooth, and based on that one tooth, they

767
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: were able to affect an identification of positive identification of crystal.

768
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: And that's where we sit today.

769
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: They've got a tremendous amount of physical evidence in this case.

770
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: I think that the tale is left to be told

771
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: as to whether or not Zachariah Roush is going to

772
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: be found guilty or not guilty. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

773
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: and this is bodybags