1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: Is this how the House Republics are starting a new term, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: cutting taxes for billionaires, raising taxes for working families, making 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: inflation worst. Democrats, more than any other majority in history, 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: are addicted to spending. We will use the debt ceiling 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: of leverage. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: DC's top name. She was unheard of previously to not 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: see people on these committees, but Pelosi did it. Many 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: Americans believe they said things about COVID, like about Jewish 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: space lasers, which should keep them off of a committee 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: like that. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: More members of Congress want to block the Talk. Welcome 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: to the fastest hour in politics. As a movement to band, 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: tick Talk gains momentum a nationwide band. We'll talk about 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: it with Congress. But Rusty Johnson, who helped write to 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: build to ban the platform on government devices, see how 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: he feels about the next move here. President Biden means 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: I'm trumping economic data showing continued growth, but issues another 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: warning over the debt ceiling. Will have the latest from 20 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: the Capitol and discuss it with White House Economic Advisor 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: Jene Sperling. And as the White House faces new criticism 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: from the president's own party on immigration policy, will have 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: analysis from our panel, Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican strategist Rick Davis, 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: along with Democratic strategist Jim Kessler of Third Wave. The 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: move to band TikTok here in Washington is gaining momentum, 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: at least on Capitol Hill, as Republican Senator Josh Holly 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: introduces legislation to prohibit the app on all devices nationwide 28 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: and as similar measure, as Bloomberg reports, is now cooking 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: in the House, seizing on concerns about the way the 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Chinese owned app handles our personal data. It's owned by 31 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: a company called byte Dance. We've talked about it many 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: times here, but this move is not new. In fact, 33 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: springs from an effort last year to band TikTok on 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: government devices. The Congressman from South Dakota, Republican Dusty Johnson, 35 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: helps to write the legislation that became long Well, the 36 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: name of the bill is block the Talk. Now. I 37 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: know some of your viewers are curious. They just some 38 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: I'm some cranky old man who wants to take away 39 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: their TikTok. And there are some prominent voices out in 40 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: the public square, like a Federal Communications Commissioner Brennan Carr, 41 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: who would advocate for just that, say hey, we should 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: not have this app. This app is such a national 43 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: security threat that it shouldn't even be available on some 44 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: of the purchasing platform. That was Congressman Johnson talking with 45 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: a starting point back in September when this whole idea 46 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: took hold, and he's with us right now, fresh off 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: votes on the House floor. Congressman Dusty Johnson, welcome back 48 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. We appreciate the time. So I have to 49 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: ask you, after what you just said, are you just 50 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: a cranky old man? Well, I am a bit of 51 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: a cranky old man. I feel a lot better about 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: the fact that we got our bill pass in December. 53 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: Now we have as we speak, we continue to have 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: a TikTok pulled off government devices. They should never have 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: been on those gush darns used to begin with. And 56 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: I would just know it for your listeners, I mean, 57 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: this is not this is not some idle threat. I'm 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: not howling at the moon here TikTok has been fined 59 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars by our government for privacy concerns. 60 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: We have employee whistleblowers from within the company that have 61 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: told us that China, the Chinese Communist Party quote, sees everything, 62 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: all of the data people are using and uploading on 63 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: that app. This thing is a real problem. I can't 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: get my kid off TikTok. Is there a file on 65 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: my kid in Beijing? There is absolutely a file on 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: your kid that TikTok, and almost certainly by dance and 67 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: almost certainly the Chinese government have I know people think 68 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: TikTok is just about fun dance videos, but the reality 69 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: is that this thing has been designed as a trojan 70 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: horse to be able to scrape up wild amounts of 71 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: American information. And I think that's why you saw the 72 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: move to ban TikTok from government devices as such a 73 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: broad based bipartisan push. I was just named the Select 74 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: Committee on China. This is also going to be a 75 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: broad based bipartisan move because the threat from the Chinese 76 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: Communist Party is multidimensional and it's not going away. You're 77 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: concerned about data collection, are you also concerned about the algorithm? 78 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: Because we don't exactly know how this thing works or 79 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: or just how exactly they have managed to create such 80 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: an addictive product. Congressman, it is really interesting that you 81 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: bring that up, because that is a developing part of 82 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: this story. As people have monitored the thieves that young 83 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: people in China get from their version of TikTok and 84 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: the content that American children get from their feet of 85 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: TikTok is wildly different. The Chinese kids are getting productive, supportive, 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: educational content. The Americans are getting garbage. The Chinese are 87 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: trying to do what they can to slow down America 88 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: while they're speeding up their own country. You mentioned in 89 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: that interview, and by the way, the director of the 90 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: f UH the the FBI, Chris Ray, mentioned that one 91 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: of the one of the f c C commissioners is 92 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: actually behind this as well. If there's a concerted effort 93 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: in the House, support in both chambers actually the Senate 94 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: now as well. You've got uh the FCC on board. 95 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: Will there be a national band? Would you support that? 96 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: I want to get a little more information before I 97 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: support a national band. I'm a freedom guy. I've taken 98 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: TikTok off my phone. I don't think anyone should have 99 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,559 Speaker 1: it on their own phone. But before I start telling 100 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: people that they don't have that control over their own phone, 101 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that this is indeed a 102 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: legitimate national security threat, that that imposes such a problem 103 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: that we need to take that kind of action. But 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: but the China Committee is going to be talking about 105 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: things like that starting very very soon. Uh is breaking news, Congressman, 106 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: I have to ask you about and you probably saw 107 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: this coming. Bloomberg is reporting that House Republican leaders are 108 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: considering now extending the debt limit to September thirty. And 109 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: it's a way for me to ask you about this 110 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: because it's obviously been a very a very big deal. 111 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: Is something that President Biden spoke about today in Northern Virginia. 112 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: List they're actually threatening to have us to fault on 113 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: American debt and debt that's been accumulated over two hundred 114 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: and thirty years, okay, and the interest on that that 115 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: we've never ever done that. So we have a retour 116 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: aventary total question, what in God's name with the Americans 117 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: give up the progress we've made for the chaos they're suggesting. 118 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you want to attempt to answer 119 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: the president here, but does buying time through the end 120 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: of September increase the odds of resolving this without a 121 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: problem here? Congressman, that's a tactic that there is not 122 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: consensus around yet. But there is consensus around, uh, certainly 123 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: among Republicans and also among an increasing number of Democrats, 124 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: is that it is irresponsible for the president to not 125 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: negotiate on the debt ceiling. The last eight major fiscal 126 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: reforms that our country has enacted came about as part 127 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: of a negotiation over a debt ceiling. And it makes sense. 128 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: What we're getting is a credit card bill, and it 129 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: is a whopper, and I get it. We have to 130 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: pay the credit card bill. We absolutely should not default 131 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: on our debt. But when a company gets that credit 132 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: card bill show up in the mail, it is exactly 133 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: the right time for that. I'm to sit down and 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: have a family conversation about how do they get the 135 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: spending under control. This White House says they should be 136 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: two separate conversations. That default and spending they're not going 137 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: to deal with in in one stop. Here, we've got 138 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: a staring contest. It seems like going on between President 139 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: Biden and your new Speaker Kevin McCarthy, both ends of 140 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Avenue. You must enjoy the idea of getting them 141 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: in the same room. Are we gonna make that happen soon? 142 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: You're saying it exactly right. Step one has to be 143 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: to get the President United States and Speaker of the 144 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: House in the same room. They have got to have 145 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: an adult conversation, and for the President to refuse to 146 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: do so is infuriating. The only thing that any of 147 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: us should want is a reasonable, sensible, and responsible resolution 148 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: to this issue. And we can we can get this done. 149 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: We have to raise the Dutch chilling, and we have 150 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: to enact real and substantial fiscal reforms. We're going to 151 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: get it done. Getting back to TikTok for a moment here, Congressman, 152 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: we understand that Marco Rubio, Josh Holly on the Senate side, 153 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: there's actually a Democrat from Illinois in your House of 154 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: Representatives that are are all raising their hands to team 155 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: up with the idea of a national TikTok ban. When 156 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: will you make up your mind if you're on board? What? 157 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: What would make up my mind? What? What would get 158 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: me on board? Yeah? Or when do you think you 159 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: would you like to make up your mind to see 160 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: if you want to be part of this. Oh, sure, absolutely, 161 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: I think what we need to let the China Committee 162 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: do a little work. I think you can get a 163 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: lot of political mileage out of introducing a bill like 164 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: that or to get on board with it. But to me, 165 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: before we really decide to pass a bill, we better 166 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: make sure that if we're gonna erode Americans freedom like that, 167 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: that we're doing it for the right reasons and that 168 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: it is legitimately that big a threat. I think TikTok 169 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: is that biggest threat. But I want to make sure 170 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: before I get on on board a nationwide ban. I'm 171 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: told that you're running back for votes. Congressman, will let 172 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: you do that, and I appreciate your time on the phone. 173 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: Congressman Dusty Johnson, Republican from South Dakota, getting things started 174 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: here on the fastest hour in politics. I mentioned Chris Ray, 175 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: FBI director. He did talk about this, Uh, it was 176 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: in a recent speech. He said the same words essentially 177 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: in congressional testimony as well, favoring a national ban at 178 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: least Tacitly, he talked about this in the University of Michigan. 179 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: Listen to the director, it's parent company isn trolled by 180 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: the Chinese government, UH, and it gives them the potential 181 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: to leverage the app in ways that I think should 182 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: concern us. The idea of entrusting that much data, that 183 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: much ability to shape content and engage in influence operations 184 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: that much access to people's devices in effect to that 185 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: government is something they concern national security concerns. Let's assemble 186 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: the panel for their thoughts on this. Rick Davis's back 187 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican strategists joined the day by 188 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: Jim Kessler, co founder, a Third Way Democratic strategist and 189 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: former legislative policy director for Senator Chuck Schumer. Gentlemen, great 190 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: to have both of you here. Rick. We talked about 191 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: the government ban the end of last year. Is the 192 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: National Band next? Yeah? I think extending blocked the talk 193 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: to uh national Band is going to generate quite a 194 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: bit of Graham swell. Um. You know, people are still 195 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: waking up to the fact that China is listening in 196 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: to so many aspects of American life and making conclusions 197 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: on how to compete with us by doing that. Uh 198 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: that Um, I still think like like Congressman Johnson said, 199 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: there needs to be more advocacy, there needs to be 200 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: more understanding. But I think as people understand what they're into, uh, 201 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: they're going to realize that, uh, it doesn't supply our culture, 202 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: our society, our economy, our politics with anything positive that 203 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: why not just get rid of it? And so uh 204 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: you can certainly replace it with other social media apps 205 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: in the United States that don't create a foreign threat. 206 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think this is this is gonna find 207 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: its way into the public domain in a big way. 208 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: People you know, did a double take Jim Kessler when 209 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump threatened to do the very same thing. Remember 210 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: he filed an executive order citing the International Emergency Economic 211 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: Powers Act and and threatened to ban TikTok. TikTok sued 212 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: the government back. That was three years ago. Is this 213 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: a bipartisan issue now? I think it is. Of China 214 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: is a surveillance state, and she Jimping believes that if 215 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: you control the cyber sphere, you control really the world. 216 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: Um TikTok, I believe is a piece of that. I 217 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: think it's it's got to be on the table. Whether 218 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: there's a TikTok band in the United States, there are 219 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: you know, some efforts to see if TikTok can be 220 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: separated from the Chinese parent company and enough safeguards being 221 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: put up, um, you know, so that people will not 222 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: be surveilled. I'm open to looking at that. But you know, also, 223 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: as a parent of a seventeen year old, I'd love 224 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: to see TikTok on for other reasons. Thanks the tablet 225 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: fifteen in my house, Jim, And it's like the only 226 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: thing that matters. Kids don't even watch TV anymore because 227 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: they want to just say they're glued to the TikTok rick. 228 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: It's it's it's addictive. I use that word intentionally because 229 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: of the way this algorithm works. I don't know if 230 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: you heard what the congressman said. This thing is written 231 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: of to work in a certain way, in a way 232 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: that YouTube never never managed. That that that keeps people 233 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: from putting the phone down. It's it's basically a digital drug. Yeah, 234 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: and look, I mean we see that in other social 235 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: media applications that aren't owned by the Chinese Red Army. 236 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: And so the reality is, um, we've got to come 237 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: to grips with how social media has has really affected 238 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: our culture, you know, especially teenagers. We know that there's 239 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: a lot of data out there on the impact on 240 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: young people with what they see and and watch on 241 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: these on these uh you know, social media outlets, and 242 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: we know how uh negative it can be to our politics, right, 243 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the Russian meddling in in in 244 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: our politics by and large was to divide people. And 245 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: of course we find out algorithms that are written by 246 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: our own uh countries outlets, uh exacerbate the negative. And 247 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: so I think I think this is a much broader issue. 248 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: But I'm so glad that we're starting to come to 249 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: grips with the fact that Chinese is you know, really 250 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: a pernicious influence in our in our in our social media, 251 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: and we've we've got to start doing something about it. 252 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: So are we all cranky old men here? Jim? I mean, 253 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: I know my kid doesn't listen to the show, but 254 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: if if if he and his friends were listening, that's 255 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: exactly what they would say, out of touch, old and cranky? 256 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: What what? What are we missing? Yes, we are cranky 257 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: old men. But the reason why we're cranky old men, 258 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: and I want to echo with Rick Davis just said, 259 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: we have a social media atmosphere out there in which 260 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: the algorithms are set to that so that anger sells, 261 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, and so the economic consentatives for a lot 262 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: of social media is to get us upset, or get 263 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: us angry, or to get us jealous. And I just 264 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: feel like it's the air pollution around us that is 265 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: affecting this country. And put the red Chinese Army aside, 266 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: like this is a problem in America everywhere. I think 267 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: it's Jim. Government officials are on this, major media outlets 268 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: are on this. I've been told I need to be 269 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: on this because I'm an on air uh personality or whatever, 270 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: even a journalist, that you have to be there because 271 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,479 Speaker 1: that's where the eyeballs are. Jim, that's a very difficult 272 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: thing for a lot of people to say no to 273 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: what happens though, to the official accounts. When you consider 274 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: government officials, like I said on TikTok in the middle 275 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: of this conversation, well you know, I'm on Twitter all 276 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: the time. I'm not on TikTok, but I don't on 277 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: Twitter all the time. And look, it is an angry 278 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: cess pool there, and I think it affects the country, 279 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: and I think it is part of the polarization here, 280 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: TikTok did a surveillance scheme. They're masquerading as entertainment. And look, 281 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: Rick Davis is right, there'll be another social media platform 282 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: that will predict kids that might not have the surveillance 283 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: aspect to it, but it all have the other negative 284 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: mental health aspects to it that I just think we've 285 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: got a dress suit. So let's say they pass a 286 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: bill here they banned TikTok. Rick, what keeps the Chinese 287 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: from just inventing another app, another trojan horse with a 288 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: similar algorithm. Well, I do think that the federal government 289 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: is certainly getting a smart to the tactics of China. 290 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: You know, you saw during the Trump administration a full fledge, 291 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: all of government approach to try and ban Huawei, which 292 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: was just another trojan horse, uh to steal our data 293 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: in the form of a cheap cell phone. Um, but 294 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: we've got some real challenges here, right. This is an 295 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: emerging issue that luckily right now is bipartisan. Right, there's 296 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: nobody out there saying, you know, being soft on China 297 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: tech is somehow a partisan issue, and so so I 298 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: think that that this is something I know that previous 299 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jim Kessler, this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, 300 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: So no. With Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. White House 301 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: remains consistent, no negotating on the debt ceiling. You've certainly 302 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: heard that here before, even as Republicans ask for budget 303 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: cuts before in agreement. White House Press Secretary Karine Sean Pierre, 304 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to default, we see this as a 305 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: separate matter. We see this a very differently, and it 306 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: should be done without conditions. Had a chance to talk 307 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: about all of this earlier today with one of the 308 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: President's closest economic advisors, Gene Sperling, who brought up the 309 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: topic actually on his own while we were discussing this morning. 310 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: Is better than expected g d P report. Positive data 311 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: makes the White House feel like the policies are working 312 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: and that we will achieve a soft landing. But the 313 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: administration is warning that the good times won't last if 314 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: we default or even get close to a default. Remembering 315 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: that Spurling was there in the Obama White House when 316 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: the whole fiscal cliff thing happened. In listen, I think 317 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: what is really the most concerning uh for really, I 318 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: think almost any responsible economic leader in the private sector 319 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: or public sector. Is the idea that that they would 320 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: return to to what happened in twenty eleven, where you 321 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: actually saw a political party say hey, if I don't 322 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: get our way on our fiscal priorities, we will default 323 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: the United States for the first time in its history 324 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: and risk national and even global recession. You know, I 325 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: really thought we'd all learned our lesson. Really, Democrats and 326 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: Republicans since tyn have not gone there. Democrats didn't not 327 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: to pay bass Well. I want to ask you about 328 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: that because people should know that you were there for 329 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: the fiscal cliff. You were you were actually the head 330 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: of the National Economic Council in a different administration. Is 331 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: it different this time or are you using the lessons 332 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 1: you learned then to figure out a solution here? You know, 333 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: the point I want to make is that virtually everybody, 334 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: I think virtually everybody has learned the lessons from twenty eleven. 335 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: I think we were President Obama and Vice Bread and 336 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: in Biden at the time, we're very willing to engage 337 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: in in a good faith fiscal negotiation. UH with Republican 338 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: leadership of the House in twentyn over, what combination of 339 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: measures should be done to uh, you know, put the 340 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: put put our fiscal situation on on a stronger path. 341 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: And then but we tried to keep that separate from 342 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: the debt limit. They started to merge together over time, 343 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: and people you know would say, it doesn't matter, you know, 344 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: if they feel they need to use that as a 345 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: hub for negotiations, why should it bother anyone? And then 346 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: we thought what happened. We saw that even when the 347 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: uh you know, Speaker of the House, John Bayner, wanted 348 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: to take a more responsible position, he could not control 349 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: his members. And we got into a situation at a 350 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: critical time of the economy where we came with consumer confidence. 351 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: We significantly hurt our economy. We had our first downgrade 352 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: by a major credit agency. Ever, all of that as 353 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: a self inflicted wound. We've already dealt with external shocks 354 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: from the Arab spring to the Fukushima meltdown in Japan. 355 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: This was a self inflicted and after that, I feel like, 356 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: not just Joe Biden and Barack Obama, but I feel 357 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, they all said we 358 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: shouldn't go there. So we've had ten debt limit increases 359 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: over twelve years, three of them were under President Trump. 360 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: Nobody Democrats didn't do payback. They didn't say, okay, you 361 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: either give us paid family leave or worked in a 362 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: defaulty economy. So when so, yes, I don't think it's 363 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: just we who have learned that lesson. I think every 364 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: responsible economic leader in the public and private sector would say, go, 365 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: have a strong negotiation. You know that you usually do. Uh. 366 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: They control a house, they have leverage, we have the 367 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: veto pen, we have leveraged. That's normal political democracy over budget. 368 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: But what we're not doing is a negotiation in which 369 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: people threatened to default the US economy if they don't 370 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: get their way. And let me be clear, it's not 371 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: right when Republicans do it for, you know, to try 372 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: to jam in Medicare or Social Security cuts. That would 373 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: be unpopular and it wouldn't be the right thing for 374 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: progressives to do to try to promote any of their agenda. 375 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: Nobody should threatened that the United States full faith and 376 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: credit as a bargaining ship in a negotiation. Well, Gene, 377 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: it's in part because of that experience you have that 378 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: your name keeps popping up on the Bloomberg terminal here 379 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: that that you're on a shortlist they say, to possibly 380 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: replace Brian Deese as head of the National Economic Council. 381 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: You're the only person who have ever held that job twice. 382 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: Would you do it again? Um? You know. One of 383 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: the reasons that I've been able to be in three 384 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: different White Houses that you learn never comment on any 385 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: personnel question, so uh, you know better if you're asking, 386 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: you'll respect me uh not not going there, And truthfully, 387 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't go there on a 388 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: question about any job or or anyone. It's the president 389 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: and the president alone who speaks and makes those announcements. 390 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: Many thanks for the insights, Jene Spirling, thanks for being 391 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: back with us as ever on Bloomberg. Thank you so much, 392 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. So I'm not going near the NBC position, 393 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: but he had a lot to say about the death ceiling, 394 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: and as the standoff continues, I would point you to 395 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: the breakfast Club. You've heard about this group of Republican 396 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: senators in the breakfast club, they include Senator Ted Cruz. Well, 397 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: they meet, I guess every Tuesday at breakfast, even though 398 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: they don't eat breakfast. It's confusing but he says he 399 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: knows how this is going to happen, not that we 400 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: will never raise the death ceiling. It is not my 401 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: position that we will never raise the debt ceiling. Rather, 402 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: what the rules say is we will use the debt 403 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: ceiling as leverage to force real and meaningful structural reforms 404 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: to fix the underlying problem. Doesn't have to be a 405 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: total solution for everything. Okay, so let's bring the panel 406 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: in on this. Rick Davis and Jim Kessler, uh, Rick, 407 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz and and it seems like just about everybody 408 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: seem to know how this is going to end. It's 409 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: about using the time that we have here, I guess too, 410 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: to try to enact some reforms. But it doesn't sound 411 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: like Republicans, aside from some folks like Andy Biggs, actually 412 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: see this going into default or want to see a default. Yeah. 413 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: I think this is where everybody agrees with the outcome, 414 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: but nobody, I mean nobody agrees with how to get there. Uh. 415 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: The White House has one point of view. I just 416 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: want to clean debt ceiling. Uh. Moderates in the Republican 417 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: Party are willing to look at different things to connect 418 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: it to whether it's the GDP or the debt or inflation. Uh. 419 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: Then there's others who want massive spending cuts in the 420 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: domestic side in order to do the trade off with 421 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: that UM. At some point in time, most of these 422 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: things are gonna peel off and and you're gonna get 423 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: down to some real horse trading. But I think it's 424 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: just naive to think that you can't use anything in 425 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: Washington as leveraged to get what you want. This is 426 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: a town of leverage. Every issue has another side to it, 427 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: and boats that you need for something else you're doing. So, 428 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: I think the administration needs to join forces in the Senate, 429 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: in the House uh to get something done. I think 430 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: this idea of leaving it up to Kevin McCarthy is 431 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: wrought with problems because on his own he hasn't proven 432 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: it he can get much done unless it's on the 433 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: sixteenth ballot. Wow, Jim, you know Senator Chuck Schumer as 434 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: well as anyone he doesn't want Kevin McCarthy can figure 435 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: this out. What role will the Senate actually play in 436 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: crafting a deal if if they can in the end, 437 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: on some day, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, and Joe Biden 438 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: will come up with something and Kevin McCarthy will have 439 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: to eat it. And as for the Tuesday Club, I 440 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: think the reason why they don't need breakfast is they 441 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: don't trust each other. They think they one of them 442 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: put poison in it. You don't believe that kind of 443 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: a group, that is not real trustworthy. Just on on 444 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: these structural changes such as security checks, Department of Defense 445 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: interest on the day, federal pensions and veterans pensions. That's 446 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: forty eight cents of every dollar that the federal government spends, 447 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: and half of what's left is healthcare. Like, I don't 448 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: know what these people are. They better put something on 449 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: the table because you know, these structural changes are really 450 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: going to mean something for people. Listen to Ran Paul. 451 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: He's in the breakfast club, and he's got a solution 452 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: for this whole thing to be fixed. He spoke at 453 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: the same time Ted Crew a hundred billion dollar cut 454 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: and free spending. We would balance our budget in just 455 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: four years. This is amazing. We have an opportunity here. 456 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: It could be done, but it would take compromise between 457 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: both Paul parties. Republicans would have to give up the 458 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: sacred cow that says we will never touch a dollar 459 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: in military, and the Democrats would have to give up 460 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: the sacred cow that they will never touch a dollar 461 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: in welfare. I guess it's easy for him to say that, Rick, 462 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: What is he right? Uh? Well, I mean, you know, certainly, 463 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: and there's some component to that, right, you can always 464 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: improve spending at the defense department. There is waste and 465 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: fraud and abuse at the Defense Department and fifty billion 466 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: dollars a lot of money, so you got to clean 467 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: that up. And he's right about spending. Um. That being said, 468 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: I mean, Rand Paul's a libertarian, right, he likes to 469 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: go everybody's box, and it's just not a practical, practical 470 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: approach when trying to solve a really important economic issue, 471 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: you know, like that ceiling. So I think he's a 472 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: gad fly on this issue. I mean, he's not actually 473 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: proposing a specific outcome. He's basically saying, pox on all 474 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: your houses, let's throw everything us And the reality is 475 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: that that nobody's prepared to do that. So his voice 476 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: is singular. I would say the Breakfast Club Keen Coming 477 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: of Age movie, why in the world would you want 478 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: to be associated with that? This is a great question 479 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: with apologies to Richard Vernon, young man, you'll get the horns. 480 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 1: That's right. Don't mess with the principle. This is Bloomberg 481 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: Son On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden 482 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: gets another letter. He gets a lot of letters, you know, 483 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: this time about immigration, and not from Republicans. It's from Democrats, 484 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: seventy seven of them criticizing the administration's policies but essentially 485 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: restrict the asylum process at our southern border. Referring to 486 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: the president's new policies we talked about when he rolled 487 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: him out earlier this month before his trip to the 488 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: summit in Mexico City, was that all this month? Wow? 489 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: Among the seventies seven Democrats signing the letters some pretty 490 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: big names, beginning with Congresswoman Alexandria Costio Quartet. Last year, 491 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: President Biden promised to end Title forty two. Instead, he 492 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: is now expanding restrictions on asylum seekers. She was joined 493 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: at a news briefing outside the Capitol this morning by 494 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: a couple other lawmakers on that list, including Senator Bob Menendez, 495 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Anyone who 496 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: tells you that the only way to secure our border 497 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: is to punish asylum seekers is lying. It's why we 498 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: are appalled to see President Biden replicate President Trump's immigration strategy. 499 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: As elected officials, we are duty bound to propose legal solutions, 500 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: one that protects asylum seekers while also securing the safe 501 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: removal of migrants who have no legal claim to stay 502 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: in the United States. Let's sell the panel for more 503 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: on this. Rick Davis is here, Republican strategist of course, 504 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributed along with Jim Kessler, the co founder 505 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: of Third Way Democratic strategist. Uh Jim, this is not 506 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: looking great for the president. Is he losing his own 507 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: party on this issue. We know republic are angry at 508 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: him about immigration, but these were some pretty bold faced 509 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: Democrats well on this issue. I think President Biden is 510 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: wise to move to the center on this. I think 511 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: that's where he always was in the debates. In he 512 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: was the only one who raised his hand when he 513 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: said that, you know, there should acrossing the border legally. 514 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: Is is a criminal act. Voters, A lot of voters 515 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: feel that Democrats are not paying attention to the border. 516 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: I know there's seventy seven Democrats on that letter, but 517 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: there are a lot more Democrats who were not on 518 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: that letter as well. There does need to be some 519 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: reform of asylum. I think the President is in the 520 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: right place. Well, I'll tell you it's never easy here, Rick. 521 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: We've talked about immigration policy a lot Title forty two, 522 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: specifically recently, Democrats want Title forty two gone. They don't 523 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: like the president's most recent move to restrict asylum. Republicans 524 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: say he's destroyed the southern border. What's Joe Biden do here? Yeah, 525 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: I would say some Democrats don't like his policy on 526 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: Title forty two. There are there are some Democrats, including 527 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: Kristen Cinema from a border state, who actually see some 528 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: merit in the approach. So um, the reality is that 529 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: I understand no. Well, yeah, she was when he put 530 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: it into place. But the bottom line is that these 531 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: are all patchwork. Um uh. Nobody's coming out with a 532 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: workable solution of a comprehensive plan like have been passed 533 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: in the Reagaan administration, offered in the Bush administration and 534 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: promoted through John McCain's candascy for present, where we would 535 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: actually address all the issues that are vexing our country 536 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: around illegal immigration on the border, and until that's done, 537 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: you're really only just putting a band aid on it. 538 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: I would say the politics on this thing, I'm more 539 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: optimistic than I was a year ago. UM you know. Uh. 540 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: The aforementioned Senator Cinema, Independent from Arizona, UM, you know, 541 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: has had very productive conversations with UH Senator Tillis, Republican 542 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: from North Carolina at the end of the last session 543 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: over a little bit more of a comprehensive bill on 544 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: border security and and and has just come back from 545 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: the border with another Republican, Senator Cornin from Texas, another 546 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: border state where I mean, I think they're making some 547 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: progress on coming up with ideas that can be some 548 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: kind of a bridge between what the Biden administration is 549 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: doing and what other issues need to be resolved. It's 550 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: far from being comprehensive, but it's the first signs of 551 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: bipartisanship on this issue that I've seen in a long time. 552 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: Rick makes a great point there, Jim. That trip to 553 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: the border, which was overshadowed by the president's summit in 554 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: Mexico City, also included a Democrat from Delaware, guy named 555 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: Chris Coons is pretty close to Joe Biden, so who 556 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: was the audience for AOC Menendez, Corey Booker and others 557 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: today at that briefing. Was it the president or they're 558 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: just talking to people at home? Well, I think they 559 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: are trying to talk to the president, but but they're 560 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: also talking to the groups. You know, there are a 561 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: lot of immigration advocacy groups. Some of them are taking, 562 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty left wing position on this, not 563 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: all of them, And you know that I do think 564 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: that in the end, I agree with Rick, there is 565 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: a better chance of bipartisan action on immigration now than 566 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: there has been in a while. You know, there are 567 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: some promising talks, but there's gonna be somebody's going to 568 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: be unhappy on the left and somebody's going to be 569 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: unhappy on on the right if if something gets done, 570 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: and something desperately needs to get done, are there numbers 571 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: for this in the House? Rick, you take the twenty 572 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: maybe away who wanted to block Speaker Kevin McCarthy in 573 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: his fifteen rounds or whatever. We got to uh that 574 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 1: they're not going to sign onto any kind of compromise 575 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: here on the boarder that involves Democrats. How do you 576 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: get a bipartisan bill a comprey hands of Bille through 577 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: this House. Yeah, well, as Jim says, you're never gonna 578 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: make everybody happy with this, and so you've got in 579 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: this case. I mean, I can't imagine a scenario where 580 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: you're not gonna have to have, you know, Republicans and 581 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: Democrats in the House voting on the same built together. 582 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: I know that's heresy these days, because it's either all 583 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: Republicans voting against something or voting for it, and vice versa. 584 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: And and yet I do think there are enough people 585 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: who are sick and tired of this issue and realize 586 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: the US is the loser on this by not doing 587 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: anything about it, and and and and it may be 588 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: the time where people are willing to cross the aisle 589 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: on both sides and say, you know what, we can't 590 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: go into the election cycle in four with another year 591 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: where we're just going to beat each other up over 592 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: immigration and get nothing done for the country. Where's Chuck 593 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: Schumer on this, Jim, your former bosson colleague. Can he 594 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: get the menendez Is and the Bookers on board with 595 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: something comprehensive. You know, he has been involved in immigration 596 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: comprom mises in the past, and a bill you know, 597 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: passed the Senate, and it looked like it was going 598 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: to pass the House until Eric Cantor, the Republican Um 599 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: majority leader, lost his primary and and and the bill 600 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: got shelved. I do believe, you know, he would like 601 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: to see a compromise agreement there and if something comes together, 602 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, Look, he had blessed what Kirsten Cinema was 603 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: doing with Tom Tillis, and I think that's an indication 604 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: of where he is. He wants to see something happen. 605 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: The fact that it's quiet, that group is quiet Rick 606 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: is encouraging, isn't it. It is because this is a 607 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: harder one to prosecute in the open right. I mean, 608 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: as as Jim made mention, there are lots of outside groups, 609 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: invested interests, they want to meddle in this, and they all, 610 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, they all have their own point of view, 611 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: and that's very hard to knit something together if you 612 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: have to do it in public and in private. So 613 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: I'm hopeful u uh. And I think the Biden administration 614 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: is keeping their head down, not getting in the way 615 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: of this. Uh. And by extending Title forty two, they 616 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: bought time to let Congress work its will. So I 617 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: do think that you know maybe this was just for show, 618 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: uh these Democratic members, but it actually isn't productive, and 619 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: so I think someone needs to go back to them 620 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: and say, like, what are we doing to actually be 621 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: productive with a solution rather than grandstandard. Rick and Jim 622 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: final thoughts. Next, this is Bloomberg, So Nong with Joe 623 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg Sound Once brought to you 624 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: by Innovation Refunds. This is your daily reminder here Innovation Refunds. 625 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 1: Time to take advantage of the newly extended employee retention credit. 626 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: Innovation Refunds has helped small and medium sized business is 627 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: impacted by COVID claim over three billion dollars in refunds. 628 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: Standing by to help your business get back the money 629 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: it may be eligible to receive. Learn more at get 630 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: refunds dot com. So if you don't already feel old, 631 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: I'm going to help you out right now. It was 632 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago today, a quarter of a century, 633 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: when the President of the United States said this to 634 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: the American people. Now, I have to go back to 635 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: work on my State of the Union speech, and I 636 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: worked on until pretty late last night, but I want 637 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: to say one thing to the American people. I want 638 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: you to listen to me. I'm gonna say this again. 639 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: I did not have sexual relations for that woman, Miss Lewinsky. 640 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: I never told anybody to lie, not a single time never. 641 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,479 Speaker 1: These allegations are false, and I need to go back 642 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: to work for the American people. Thank you, friendly Crows. 643 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: It was not for another seven months the nation watched 644 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: as President Bill Clinton spoke to them again in a 645 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: deposition in January, I was asked questions about my relationship 646 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: with Monica Lewinsky. While my answers were legally accurate, I 647 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: did not volunteer information. Indeed, I did have a relationship 648 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: with Ms. Lewinsky that was not appropriate. In fact, it 649 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: was wrong. It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and 650 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: a personal failure on my part, for which I am 651 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: solely and completely responsible. This, of course, all broke out 652 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: with the help of then Independent Council of the Late 653 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:37,879 Speaker 1: Ken's Star and a little help from Matt Drudge helps 654 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: to redefine the idea of an independent council. Now Here 655 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: we have another sitting president being investigated by a special counsel, 656 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: and the most previous president also under investigation by a 657 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: special counsel. Some thoughts from our panel on this. Jim 658 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: Kessler and Rick Davis are with us. Rick, when you 659 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: look back on this twenty five years ago, my goodness. 660 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,240 Speaker 1: First of all, an incredible period of time has passed 661 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: as we sort of figure out exactly what happened and 662 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: whether it was worth it. How does it inform our 663 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: idea of an independent council or a special council with 664 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: what's happening now today. Well, I think the Star investigation 665 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: was a precursor to what we've seen since then, and 666 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: that was high profile, uh prosecuted in the open, lots 667 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: of leagues, lots of information floating around, and then no 668 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: real outcome, right, two years of taxpayer dollars spent investigating 669 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: this issue and and nothing really happened. Subsequent to that, 670 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: we've seen other special councils who have chewed up two 671 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: years or more in an investigation and nothing really happened. 672 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: So I'm hopeful that the Justice Department has learned its 673 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: lessons through the last twenty five years, especially when investigating 674 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: presidents or former presidents, and will not actually spend two 675 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 1: years of a taxpayer money to come up with nothing, 676 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: and and and and that doesn't mean you have to 677 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: predetermine the outcome. You just have to predetermine how much 678 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: money in time you're gonna be willing to expend on 679 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: the taxpayers. I have to do, Jim Kestler, were the 680 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 1: lessons of twenty five years ago prevent mission creep from 681 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: these current investigations? I don't think so. Look, the first 682 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: thing I want to say is we should all owe 683 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: an apology to Monica Lewinsky, who was treated horribly during 684 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: that period by the political system and the media and 685 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: was blamed and she really wasn't her fault. So I 686 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: just want to note that the years ago she was 687 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,280 Speaker 1: raped through the coals. Yeah, you're right. I also believe 688 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: that in politics like there is a tip for tat, 689 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: and you know, the Star investigation really was not legitimate 690 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 1: in my viewpoint. But what it means is then there's 691 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: gonna be another investigation, and then another investigation, and then 692 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: another investigation. Here we are in twenty three with two 693 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: simultaneous special counsels, which we had more time with Jim 694 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: Kessler and Rick Davis. By the way, Monica Olinsky, writing 695 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: this week in Vanity Fair twenty five years later, quote, 696 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: as the years pass one's taste in partners gets better. 697 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg.