WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Hobo Signs

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck. What are you gonna do about it? Short stuff?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is called outdated names for people.

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<v Speaker 1>Addition, I guess so i'd love so. A lot of

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<v Speaker 1>this came from the NSA, the National Security Agency, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the one that's been spying on Americans for decades now, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and they basically hid behind hoboes when they were talking

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<v Speaker 1>about tramps and bumbs, which I assume is what you're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. But they're like, according to hoboes, this is

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<v Speaker 1>what this means.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, these are old terms used back then. So

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<v Speaker 2>just know we're not suggesting that anyone call an unhoused

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<v Speaker 2>person a bum or a tramp.

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<v Speaker 1>No, But specifically, the NSA says that hobos. Say specifically

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<v Speaker 1>that a hobo is a traveling itinerant worker who wants

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<v Speaker 1>to work, who also loves to travel. And the way

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<v Speaker 1>that they put it is a hobo travels to work

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<v Speaker 1>and works to travel frequently. They're working so they can

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<v Speaker 1>save up enough to tide them over through the winter,

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<v Speaker 1>which they'll take off then they'll get back on the road.

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<v Speaker 1>They travel by train, by car, however they can we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about them in the hitchhiking episode, if I remember correctly. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and then according to the NSA, According to hoboes, the

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<v Speaker 1>difference between a tramp and a hobo and a bum

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<v Speaker 1>and a hobo is that a tramp is also a traveler,

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<v Speaker 1>but they don't like to work. It don't work. And

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<v Speaker 1>then a bum again according to hoboes, according to the NSA,

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<v Speaker 1>neither travels nor works. So there you go. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>putting that all on me.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean you're the one that put this one together.

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<v Speaker 2>We got to talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't get around.

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<v Speaker 2>Hoboes is what we're going to concentrate on specifically, as

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<v Speaker 2>you'll see in a minute here, hobo signs. But the

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<v Speaker 2>word hobo itself, no one's really sure where that comes from.

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<v Speaker 2>There are a bunch of ideas, as always as to

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<v Speaker 2>its origin. Some you know, as usual, make more sense

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<v Speaker 2>than others. For real, one is h oe ho boy. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>if you were traveling around working, you might have some

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<v Speaker 2>farming tools like a hoe, so you might have been

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<v Speaker 2>a hoe boy, which could have become hobo. I say

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<v Speaker 2>that this may be not so great.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you're crazy. That's my number one. Oh yeah mm hmm,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, what's what Okay, what's your let me hear

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<v Speaker 1>your pick. Then what's the what's the Where the word

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<v Speaker 1>hobo come from?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, if I was picking just from this list,

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<v Speaker 2>I would go with because this did start after the

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<v Speaker 2>Civil War, when there were soldiers who either wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>go home and would hop a train or didn't want

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<v Speaker 2>to go home and would hop a train in the

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<v Speaker 2>other direction. But homeward bound h o bo makes a

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<v Speaker 2>little more sense to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, No, I would put that one at second.

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<v Speaker 2>That's number two.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to at least name check the other one

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<v Speaker 1>real quick.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's one that says that it was basically a

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<v Speaker 1>shortened version of Hello Boy, just a friendly greeting, and

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<v Speaker 1>that that came to low boy and then low bo

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<v Speaker 1>and then hobo.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's a terrible idea as well. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>hilarious to just say those different words in progression.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I would also say it's probably not a Latin

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<v Speaker 2>thing in origin, but there are some people who say

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<v Speaker 2>it's from the Latin homo bonus, meaning a good man.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's that one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I didn't. So when somebody's saying like bonus in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineties, they were saying like good, I guess it

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<v Speaker 1>never occurred to me that they were speaking Latin.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, I'm sure that's what was going on.

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<v Speaker 1>So well, let's just set up what we're really talking

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<v Speaker 1>about here today, Chuck. We're talking about hobo signs, as

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<v Speaker 1>I believe you said. And so one thing that hobo's

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<v Speaker 1>have in common is that they like to travel. They

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<v Speaker 1>very frequently prefer solitude, and yet they have a camaraderie

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<v Speaker 1>with one another. So when you're traveling as you're a

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<v Speaker 1>hobo and you're going from like town to town and

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<v Speaker 1>you're saying, like, hey, where can I get work? Where

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<v Speaker 1>can I get a free meal or something like that,

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<v Speaker 1>you're met varyingly with different kinds of attitudes. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>those attitudes are probably going to stay roughly the same

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<v Speaker 1>over you know, shortish spans of time at least. So,

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<v Speaker 1>because you care about other hoboes and because you don't

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<v Speaker 1>really meet up with them very frequently, you would leave

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<v Speaker 1>a sign. And this is what became hobo signs. There

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<v Speaker 1>were signs that a hobo left for another hobo basically

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<v Speaker 1>saying like this is a great place to get a

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<v Speaker 1>free meal, stay away from this house because this is

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<v Speaker 1>where the local cop lives. All sorts of really useful

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<v Speaker 1>information and over time, essentially a codified system developed.

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<v Speaker 2>Fantastic, What a great setup.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you. I appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 2>All Right, we'll take a break and we'll be right

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<v Speaker 2>back to talk about what was on these signs right

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<v Speaker 2>after this.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we talked about hobo signs, and we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to start talking about that again beginning now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like you mentioned, you know, hobo's lived a very early,

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<v Speaker 2>fairly solitary life. I guess they would hook up with

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<v Speaker 2>friends every now and then. But the fact that you're

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<v Speaker 2>traveling around and you're not all congregating in a big

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<v Speaker 2>group to tell one another like hey, this next town

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<v Speaker 2>you're coming upon, X, Y and Z, you should know

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<v Speaker 2>they would leave these signs. They were temporary on purpose. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>they were like chark or charcoal, because, like you said,

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<v Speaker 2>some certain people might have certain attitudes about someone coming

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<v Speaker 2>through town looking for work. There are changes in attitudes.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I'm not going to do it, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Pjmy Buffett and the person who lived in that farmhouse

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<v Speaker 2>last year may have been super helpful and need some help,

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<v Speaker 2>but maybe a year later they didn't, so that sign

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<v Speaker 2>would need to be changed. So that's just sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a clumsy way of saying, Hey, let's not make these

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<v Speaker 2>signs permanent because they need to change to convey the

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<v Speaker 2>most recent information exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And so the signs, some of the signs that they

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<v Speaker 1>developed just make intuitive sense. Like there's a top hat

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<v Speaker 1>that was the sign that a wealthy person lived there. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a train engine would be a good spot to mark

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<v Speaker 1>a train. And this one I'm kind of puzzled by

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<v Speaker 1>because you wouldn't actually find out if it was a

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<v Speaker 1>good spot until you were successful or not. If you

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<v Speaker 1>were unsuccessful, you wouldn't go back and leave that sign

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<v Speaker 1>that it was a good spot. If you were successful,

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<v Speaker 1>you wouldn't be there anymore to leave the sign that

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<v Speaker 1>it was a good spot. I just find that a

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<v Speaker 1>head scratcher. But more often than not, Oh, there was

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<v Speaker 1>another one across said that if you you know, gin

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<v Speaker 1>up some religious talk with people who live here, they'll

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<v Speaker 1>give you a free meal.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that one more often.

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<v Speaker 1>Than not, though they they didn't really have any intuitive

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<v Speaker 1>connection to what they were conveying. The symbols.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that cross one is really great, because at some

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<v Speaker 2>point some hobo was not having much luck with the

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<v Speaker 2>lady of the house, and then they started talking about

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus and she was like, would you like a slice

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<v Speaker 2>of pie?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>The guy's like, oh, okay, I got you.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently George Washington was like that, but with horses instead

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<v Speaker 1>of religious talk.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to believe anything you ever say anymore, So.

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<v Speaker 1>That one is true. That's a story from Gilbert Stewart,

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<v Speaker 1>the famous portraitist, who couldn't get him to become at all, like,

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<v Speaker 1>like to smile at all, And apparently his horse walked by,

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<v Speaker 1>and all of a sudden, George Washington just started beaming

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<v Speaker 1>and talking about his horse and horses in general. So

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<v Speaker 1>Gilbert Stewart knew that for the rest of the sitting

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<v Speaker 1>he would just bring up horses, and George Washington would

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<v Speaker 1>just be up and chipper.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he said, let me flash a smile, let me

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<v Speaker 2>see those pearly brown waters. So all right, so you

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned a few things that made sense, like the top

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<v Speaker 2>the top hat and stuff like that, but there were

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<v Speaker 2>also a lot of symbols in this code that you know.

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<v Speaker 2>It was sort of the symbol of the hobo that

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<v Speaker 2>if you just look at it, it's not intuitive. For instance,

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<v Speaker 2>a picture of a chicken that someone has drawn, you

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<v Speaker 2>might think, hey, this might be a place where I

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<v Speaker 2>could get some chicken. Yeah no, no, no, that means

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<v Speaker 2>you can use the telephone for free.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, boxy you is a good camping spot. Some are

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<v Speaker 1>just like where did you get this? The sideways cross

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<v Speaker 1>cross on its side on a circle in one of

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<v Speaker 1>the quadrants, the top quadrant, and then and the circle

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<v Speaker 1>has three dots inside, and that means that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>doctor that lives there, and you won't charge for medical attention.

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<v Speaker 1>I like, where would you possibly come up with that?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I tried to make sense. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>you did two of a lot of these, And I

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<v Speaker 2>wonder if some of them did make sense to the

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<v Speaker 2>creator or if it was just literally like, hey we

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<v Speaker 2>need something.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I get Maybe they just kept adding to it.

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<v Speaker 1>They were like, well, this one will be a sideways cross.

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<v Speaker 1>They're like, no, that's already means there's a Satanist that

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<v Speaker 1>lives there. Okay, Well what about a sideways cross top

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<v Speaker 1>of the circle. That's a Satanist who loves to talk

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<v Speaker 1>too much?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>What about one with three dots, and they're like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>doctor who doesn't charge for medical advice.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, yeah, that's a good one. That's a real one,

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<v Speaker 2>right that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was the one.

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<v Speaker 2>I was Oh that sideways cross right right right, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's also a circle next to a square. Each

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<v Speaker 2>of them has a dot in the middle, and that

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<v Speaker 2>means that the man of the house has a bad temper.

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<v Speaker 1>M h pretty, steer clear, pretty good words.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of these were like steer clear or go here.

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<v Speaker 1>They had like an extra little layer of information too. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The only one that made any sense was the three

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<v Speaker 2>perpendicular diagonal lines.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, that made sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Was unsafe. I just thought it might mean like three

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<v Speaker 2>strikes is usually a bad thing, Okay, but I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's just a guess. Okay, that made more sense than

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<v Speaker 2>any of the rest of them. I think.

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<v Speaker 1>So where these signs came from is just completely lost

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<v Speaker 1>to history. Although some people are like, I can tell

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<v Speaker 1>you exactly where it came from, we should probably say

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<v Speaker 1>at this point there are some people who don't believe

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<v Speaker 1>that there ever actually was a codified roughly fifty signs

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<v Speaker 1>that hobo's used to leave to one another. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>group called the Historical Graffiti Society that Atlas Obscure profiled

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<v Speaker 1>some years back. And these people search for those things

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<v Speaker 1>and they're like, I wish this would I would be

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<v Speaker 1>proven wrong because I want to find them. I've never

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<v Speaker 1>found anything like that. They think that it's possible that

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<v Speaker 1>the whole thing was generated by early twentieth century media

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<v Speaker 1>fascination with hobo and the hobo lifestyle.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that is I mean, I thought that reading of

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<v Speaker 2>it was right, but they're just saying that it was

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<v Speaker 2>just a creation of media.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So they trace it back even further to there

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<v Speaker 1>was a famous hobo I can't remember his name, but

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<v Speaker 1>he wrote a series of like fantastic books that were

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<v Speaker 1>really popular, and they think that the signs were introduced

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<v Speaker 1>in there. To me, that doesn't mean that the whole

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<v Speaker 1>thing was made up right, right.

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<v Speaker 2>You know?

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<v Speaker 1>I think that that like possibly it wasn't nearly as codified.

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<v Speaker 1>But they're like, we've never found a single one. And

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<v Speaker 1>we found like they found some in chalk that are

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred years old, but they don't bear a resemblance

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.440
<v Speaker 1>to this. Instead, it's usually the first letter of whatever

0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:47.160
<v Speaker 1>direction they were traveling. Yeah, their nickname and then maybe

0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.640
<v Speaker 1>the year or the date that's a genuine, documented, verified

0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 1>hobo signs. Hobo's definitely used those one hundred plus years ago.

0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, speaking of nicknames, we kind of have to mention

0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:04.040
<v Speaker 2>one thing, right, yeah, yeah, so yeah. John Hodgman, a

0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.080
<v Speaker 2>writer of books and podcaster of the Judge John Hodgman podcast,

0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 2>very famously created eight hundred hobo names in one of

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.360
<v Speaker 2>his books. And I figured we could just go through

0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.000
<v Speaker 2>a couple of these. Do you have a list by

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:27.960
<v Speaker 2>any chance? No? I have them all memorized, Okay, Chili mixed,

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Wilma Benson, that's not bad, flea stick, uh, Tommy Lyce Combey,

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 2>let me see. Let me do one more, how about

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>prostate davy. So Hodgman came up with eight hundred names.

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.360
<v Speaker 2>That was I've never talked to him about that. I

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.840
<v Speaker 2>imagine that was arduous, and I'm sure he never wanted

0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 2>to do that again because I think he also had

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 2>people for years saying to create a hobo name for

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 2>them and stuff like that.

0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, and you'd be like, no, I'm not

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 1>doing that. Yeah.

0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Fun stuff.

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Though, Just to wrap it up, there was an actual like,

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.439
<v Speaker 1>there was documented hobo signs. That seem to have generated organically,

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and that it was called war chalking, And essentially it

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.040
<v Speaker 1>came about in a very specific period of time in

0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 1>the early two thousands, when Wi Fi started to become ubiquitous,

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 1>but free Wi Fi was very hard to find, and

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 1>so a hobo would find some place where somebody had

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.080
<v Speaker 1>like a Wi Fi router that didn't understand how to

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 1>add like a security key to it, and so there

0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.280
<v Speaker 1>was just free Wi Fi. So they would leave a

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 1>little mark for other hobos to say, like, you can

0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>get free Wi Fi here. And then as people started

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.280
<v Speaker 1>to get savvier and added security to their routers, that

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of went away, but simultaneously, free Wi Fi zones

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.520
<v Speaker 1>like in some cities now are just completely wired up

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>with free Wi Fi. Like that kind of grew in

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.800
<v Speaker 1>its place. So the whole premise of war chalking lives

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.680
<v Speaker 1>in a very very small window of time. I just

0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.440
<v Speaker 1>find that fascinating interesting.

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I love it.

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.079
<v Speaker 1>I love it to chuck and I love the short stuff,

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 1>and the short stuff is out. Stuff you should Know

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 1>is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 2>For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.600
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