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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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Speaker 1: there's Chuck. What are you gonna do about it? Short stuff?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is called outdated names for people.

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Speaker 1: Addition, I guess so i'd love so. A lot of

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Speaker 1: this came from the NSA, the National Security Agency, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the one that's been spying on Americans for decades now, okay,

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Speaker 1: and they basically hid behind hoboes when they were talking

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Speaker 1: about tramps and bumbs, which I assume is what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. But they're like, according to hoboes, this is

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Speaker 1: what this means.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, these are old terms used back then. So

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Speaker 2: just know we're not suggesting that anyone call an unhoused

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Speaker 2: person a bum or a tramp.

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Speaker 1: No, But specifically, the NSA says that hobos. Say specifically

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Speaker 1: that a hobo is a traveling itinerant worker who wants

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Speaker 1: to work, who also loves to travel. And the way

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Speaker 1: that they put it is a hobo travels to work

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Speaker 1: and works to travel frequently. They're working so they can

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Speaker 1: save up enough to tide them over through the winter,

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Speaker 1: which they'll take off then they'll get back on the road.

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Speaker 1: They travel by train, by car, however they can we

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Speaker 1: talked about them in the hitchhiking episode, if I remember correctly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then according to the NSA, According to hoboes, the

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Speaker 1: difference between a tramp and a hobo and a bum

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Speaker 1: and a hobo is that a tramp is also a traveler,

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Speaker 1: but they don't like to work. It don't work. And

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Speaker 1: then a bum again according to hoboes, according to the NSA,

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Speaker 1: neither travels nor works. So there you go. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: putting that all on me.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean you're the one that put this one together.

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Speaker 2: We got to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: You can't get around.

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Speaker 2: Hoboes is what we're going to concentrate on specifically, as

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Speaker 2: you'll see in a minute here, hobo signs. But the

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Speaker 2: word hobo itself, no one's really sure where that comes from.

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Speaker 2: There are a bunch of ideas, as always as to

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Speaker 2: its origin. Some you know, as usual, make more sense

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Speaker 2: than others. For real, one is h oe ho boy. Like,

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Speaker 2: if you were traveling around working, you might have some

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Speaker 2: farming tools like a hoe, so you might have been

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Speaker 2: a hoe boy, which could have become hobo. I say

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Speaker 2: that this may be not so great.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're crazy. That's my number one. Oh yeah mm hmm,

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Speaker 1: all right, what's what Okay, what's your let me hear

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Speaker 1: your pick. Then what's the what's the Where the word

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Speaker 1: hobo come from?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if I was picking just from this list,

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Speaker 2: I would go with because this did start after the

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Speaker 2: Civil War, when there were soldiers who either wanted to

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Speaker 2: go home and would hop a train or didn't want

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Speaker 2: to go home and would hop a train in the

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Speaker 2: other direction. But homeward bound h o bo makes a

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Speaker 2: little more sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Sure, No, I would put that one at second.

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Speaker 2: That's number two.

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Speaker 1: We have to at least name check the other one

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Speaker 1: real quick.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So there's one that says that it was basically a

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Speaker 1: shortened version of Hello Boy, just a friendly greeting, and

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Speaker 1: that that came to low boy and then low bo

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Speaker 1: and then hobo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a terrible idea as well. But it's

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Speaker 1: hilarious to just say those different words in progression.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I would also say it's probably not a Latin

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Speaker 2: thing in origin, but there are some people who say

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Speaker 2: it's from the Latin homo bonus, meaning a good man.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't. So when somebody's saying like bonus in

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Speaker 1: the nineties, they were saying like good, I guess it

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Speaker 1: never occurred to me that they were speaking Latin.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I'm sure that's what was going on.

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Speaker 1: So well, let's just set up what we're really talking

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Speaker 1: about here today, Chuck. We're talking about hobo signs, as

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Speaker 1: I believe you said. And so one thing that hobo's

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Speaker 1: have in common is that they like to travel. They

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Speaker 1: very frequently prefer solitude, and yet they have a camaraderie

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Speaker 1: with one another. So when you're traveling as you're a

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Speaker 1: hobo and you're going from like town to town and

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Speaker 1: you're saying, like, hey, where can I get work? Where

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Speaker 1: can I get a free meal or something like that,

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Speaker 1: you're met varyingly with different kinds of attitudes. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: those attitudes are probably going to stay roughly the same

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Speaker 1: over you know, shortish spans of time at least. So,

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Speaker 1: because you care about other hoboes and because you don't

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Speaker 1: really meet up with them very frequently, you would leave

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Speaker 1: a sign. And this is what became hobo signs. There

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Speaker 1: were signs that a hobo left for another hobo basically

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Speaker 1: saying like this is a great place to get a

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Speaker 1: free meal, stay away from this house because this is

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Speaker 1: where the local cop lives. All sorts of really useful

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Speaker 1: information and over time, essentially a codified system developed.

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Speaker 2: Fantastic, What a great setup.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: All Right, we'll take a break and we'll be right

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Speaker 2: back to talk about what was on these signs right

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Speaker 2: after this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we talked about hobo signs, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to start talking about that again beginning now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you mentioned, you know, hobo's lived a very early,

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Speaker 2: fairly solitary life. I guess they would hook up with

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Speaker 2: friends every now and then. But the fact that you're

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Speaker 2: traveling around and you're not all congregating in a big

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Speaker 2: group to tell one another like hey, this next town

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Speaker 2: you're coming upon, X, Y and Z, you should know

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Speaker 2: they would leave these signs. They were temporary on purpose. Basically,

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Speaker 2: they were like chark or charcoal, because, like you said,

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Speaker 2: some certain people might have certain attitudes about someone coming

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Speaker 2: through town looking for work. There are changes in attitudes.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm not going to do it, thank you,

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 2: Pjmy Buffett and the person who lived in that farmhouse

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Speaker 2: last year may have been super helpful and need some help,

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Speaker 2: but maybe a year later they didn't, so that sign

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Speaker 2: would need to be changed. So that's just sort of

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Speaker 2: a clumsy way of saying, Hey, let's not make these

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Speaker 2: signs permanent because they need to change to convey the

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Speaker 2: most recent information exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so the signs, some of the signs that they

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Speaker 1: developed just make intuitive sense. Like there's a top hat

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Speaker 1: that was the sign that a wealthy person lived there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a train engine would be a good spot to mark

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Speaker 1: a train. And this one I'm kind of puzzled by

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Speaker 1: because you wouldn't actually find out if it was a

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Speaker 1: good spot until you were successful or not. If you

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Speaker 1: were unsuccessful, you wouldn't go back and leave that sign

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Speaker 1: that it was a good spot. If you were successful,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't be there anymore to leave the sign that

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Speaker 1: it was a good spot. I just find that a

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Speaker 1: head scratcher. But more often than not, Oh, there was

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Speaker 1: another one across said that if you you know, gin

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Speaker 1: up some religious talk with people who live here, they'll

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Speaker 1: give you a free meal.

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Speaker 2: I love that one more often.

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Speaker 1: Than not, though they they didn't really have any intuitive

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Speaker 1: connection to what they were conveying. The symbols.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that cross one is really great, because at some

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Speaker 2: point some hobo was not having much luck with the

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Speaker 2: lady of the house, and then they started talking about

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Speaker 2: Jesus and she was like, would you like a slice

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Speaker 2: of pie?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: The guy's like, oh, okay, I got you.

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Speaker 1: Apparently George Washington was like that, but with horses instead

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Speaker 1: of religious talk.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to believe anything you ever say anymore, So.

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Speaker 1: That one is true. That's a story from Gilbert Stewart,

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Speaker 1: the famous portraitist, who couldn't get him to become at all, like,

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Speaker 1: like to smile at all, And apparently his horse walked by,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, George Washington just started beaming

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Speaker 1: and talking about his horse and horses in general. So

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Speaker 1: Gilbert Stewart knew that for the rest of the sitting

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Speaker 1: he would just bring up horses, and George Washington would

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Speaker 1: just be up and chipper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, let me flash a smile, let me

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Speaker 2: see those pearly brown waters. So all right, so you

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Speaker 2: mentioned a few things that made sense, like the top

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Speaker 2: the top hat and stuff like that, but there were

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Speaker 2: also a lot of symbols in this code that you know.

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Speaker 2: It was sort of the symbol of the hobo that

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Speaker 2: if you just look at it, it's not intuitive. For instance,

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Speaker 2: a picture of a chicken that someone has drawn, you

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Speaker 2: might think, hey, this might be a place where I

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Speaker 2: could get some chicken. Yeah no, no, no, that means

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Speaker 2: you can use the telephone for free.

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Speaker 1: Right, boxy you is a good camping spot. Some are

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Speaker 1: just like where did you get this? The sideways cross

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Speaker 1: cross on its side on a circle in one of

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Speaker 1: the quadrants, the top quadrant, and then and the circle

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Speaker 1: has three dots inside, and that means that there's a

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Speaker 1: doctor that lives there, and you won't charge for medical attention.

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Speaker 1: I like, where would you possibly come up with that?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I tried to make sense. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you did two of a lot of these, And I

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Speaker 2: wonder if some of them did make sense to the

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Speaker 2: creator or if it was just literally like, hey we

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Speaker 2: need something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get Maybe they just kept adding to it.

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Speaker 1: They were like, well, this one will be a sideways cross.

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Speaker 1: They're like, no, that's already means there's a Satanist that

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Speaker 1: lives there. Okay, Well what about a sideways cross top

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Speaker 1: of the circle. That's a Satanist who loves to talk

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Speaker 1: too much?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: What about one with three dots, and they're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: doctor who doesn't charge for medical advice.

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Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, that's a good one. That's a real one,

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Speaker 2: right that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the one.

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Speaker 2: I was Oh that sideways cross right right right, Okay.

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Speaker 2: So there's also a circle next to a square. Each

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Speaker 2: of them has a dot in the middle, and that

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Speaker 2: means that the man of the house has a bad temper.

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Speaker 1: M h pretty, steer clear, pretty good words.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these were like steer clear or go here.

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Speaker 1: They had like an extra little layer of information too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The only one that made any sense was the three

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Speaker 2: perpendicular diagonal lines.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that made sense.

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Speaker 2: Was unsafe. I just thought it might mean like three

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Speaker 2: strikes is usually a bad thing, Okay, but I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's just a guess. Okay, that made more sense than

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Speaker 2: any of the rest of them. I think.

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Speaker 1: So where these signs came from is just completely lost

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Speaker 1: to history. Although some people are like, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you exactly where it came from, we should probably say

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Speaker 1: at this point there are some people who don't believe

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Speaker 1: that there ever actually was a codified roughly fifty signs

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Speaker 1: that hobo's used to leave to one another. There's a

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Speaker 1: group called the Historical Graffiti Society that Atlas Obscure profiled

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Speaker 1: some years back. And these people search for those things

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Speaker 1: and they're like, I wish this would I would be

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Speaker 1: proven wrong because I want to find them. I've never

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Speaker 1: found anything like that. They think that it's possible that

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Speaker 1: the whole thing was generated by early twentieth century media

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Speaker 1: fascination with hobo and the hobo lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: Oh that is I mean, I thought that reading of

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Speaker 2: it was right, but they're just saying that it was

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Speaker 2: just a creation of media.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So they trace it back even further to there

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Speaker 1: was a famous hobo I can't remember his name, but

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Speaker 1: he wrote a series of like fantastic books that were

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Speaker 1: really popular, and they think that the signs were introduced

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Speaker 1: in there. To me, that doesn't mean that the whole

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Speaker 1: thing was made up right, right.

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: I think that that like possibly it wasn't nearly as codified.

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Speaker 1: But they're like, we've never found a single one. And

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Speaker 1: we found like they found some in chalk that are

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Speaker 1: one hundred years old, but they don't bear a resemblance

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Speaker 1: to this. Instead, it's usually the first letter of whatever

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Speaker 1: direction they were traveling. Yeah, their nickname and then maybe

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Speaker 1: the year or the date that's a genuine, documented, verified

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Speaker 1: hobo signs. Hobo's definitely used those one hundred plus years ago.

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Speaker 2: Well, speaking of nicknames, we kind of have to mention

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Speaker 2: one thing, right, yeah, yeah, so yeah. John Hodgman, a

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Speaker 2: writer of books and podcaster of the Judge John Hodgman podcast,

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Speaker 2: very famously created eight hundred hobo names in one of

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Speaker 2: his books. And I figured we could just go through

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Speaker 2: a couple of these. Do you have a list by

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Speaker 2: any chance? No? I have them all memorized, Okay, Chili mixed,

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Speaker 2: Wilma Benson, that's not bad, flea stick, uh, Tommy Lyce Combey,

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Speaker 2: let me see. Let me do one more, how about

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Speaker 2: prostate davy. So Hodgman came up with eight hundred names.

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Speaker 2: That was I've never talked to him about that. I

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Speaker 2: imagine that was arduous, and I'm sure he never wanted

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Speaker 2: to do that again because I think he also had

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Speaker 2: people for years saying to create a hobo name for

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Speaker 2: them and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and you'd be like, no, I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Fun stuff.

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Speaker 1: Though, Just to wrap it up, there was an actual like,

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Speaker 1: there was documented hobo signs. That seem to have generated organically,

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Speaker 1: and that it was called war chalking, And essentially it

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Speaker 1: came about in a very specific period of time in

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Speaker 1: the early two thousands, when Wi Fi started to become ubiquitous,

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Speaker 1: but free Wi Fi was very hard to find, and

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Speaker 1: so a hobo would find some place where somebody had

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Speaker 1: like a Wi Fi router that didn't understand how to

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Speaker 1: add like a security key to it, and so there

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Speaker 1: was just free Wi Fi. So they would leave a

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Speaker 1: little mark for other hobos to say, like, you can

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Speaker 1: get free Wi Fi here. And then as people started

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Speaker 1: to get savvier and added security to their routers, that

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Speaker 1: kind of went away, but simultaneously, free Wi Fi zones

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Speaker 1: like in some cities now are just completely wired up

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Speaker 1: with free Wi Fi. Like that kind of grew in

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Speaker 1: its place. So the whole premise of war chalking lives

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Speaker 1: in a very very small window of time. I just

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Speaker 1: find that fascinating interesting.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love it to chuck and I love the short stuff,

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Speaker 1: and the short stuff is out. Stuff you should Know

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Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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