1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: If FBI informant Mickey Windecker has a favorite movie, I'm 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: pretty sure I know what it is. The Punisher and 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: certain extreme situations The Law is Inadequate. In the two 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: thousand and four film, actor Thomas Jane plays a guy 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: named Frank Castle whose family is murdered by the mafia. 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: As a result, he becomes a bone crushing vigilante on 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: the hunt for his family's killers. The Punisher is an outlaw, 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: a man who meets out his own brand of justice 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: as a way to make up for what he sees 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: as the failures of the police and the criminal justice system. 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: He's not bound by rules or laws. He's bound only 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: by his own sense of morality and justice. He's judged 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: jury and Punisher. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: a valid motive. It's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: Mickey two thinks of himself as being bound only by 16 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: his unique sense of morality and justice. But there's more 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: to it than that. Mickey wants to be the Punisher, 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: and you know who helps make that happen, the FBI. 19 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm Trevor Aaronson from Western Sound and I Heart Podcasts. 20 00:01:34,920 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: This is Alphabet Boys, episode four, The Punisher. I drive 21 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: out to a nondescript apartment complex north of Denver. I 22 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: knock on a first floor unit near the parking lot, 23 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: and Cassie Windecker opens the door wearing sweatpants and a 24 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: baggy tshirt. The door opens to Cassie's living room, which 25 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: has a floor to ceiling stripper pole in the middle. 26 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: On the wall our movie posters for Beetlejuice and Friday 27 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: the Thirteenth. Gothic decorations are strewn throughout the apartment. Halloween 28 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: isn't anytime soon. Cassie's just really into the imagery. I 29 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: start setting up my recording equipment. I was like, gosh, 30 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: it's this video. Cassie was working late the night before 31 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: and she's just rolled out of bed. She sees I 32 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: have an audio recorder, not a camera, and she's relieved 33 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: because I'm known as this model, like might be good 34 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: for our reputation. I don't know. So I'm recording now. 35 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: If you could just introduce yourself the way you'd like 36 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: to be referred. Okay, Hi, my name is Cassieky. Did 37 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 1: you go by Cassie Windecker? Honestly, so the whole vin 38 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: Decker thing Windecker. I hate it. I'm trying your intimate. 39 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: I'm so tired of it. Cassie started seeing Mickey in 40 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, about five years before Mickey would become an 41 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: FBI informant investigating racial justice activists in Denver. Cassie is 42 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: Mickey Windecker's third ex wife. Her hair is long and 43 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: her eyes are green. She has gauges in both of 44 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: her ears and tattoos all over her body, including a 45 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: Halloween pumpkin on her neck, an anchor below one eye, 46 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: and large letters across part of her forehead that read confidence. 47 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: These days, Cassie works at a strip club and as 48 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 1: an adult model. Online, she's known as kill A Cassie 49 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: Cassie with a A if you want to look her 50 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: up on Instagram. Cassie is short for Cassandra, you know, 51 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: the Trojan princess in Greek mythology who uttered prophecies that 52 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: were true, but we're doomed to be ignored to the 53 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: extent she can. Cassie has been warning people about Mickey Windecker, 54 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: who entered her life when he came to her aid 55 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: over a torn ear. One of my gauges, well, my 56 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: left ear lobe it had ripped, and I made a 57 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: status on Facebook, like can anybody at a shop or 58 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: anything like fix my ear? And he had commented on it. 59 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: And he used to work at like all the strip clubs. 60 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: He used to go to Hers Call and he did 61 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: all the stuff I did. He has known as like 62 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: the vampire guy, like the guy with the hers, the 63 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: cool guy. You know, everybody loved him. And I go 64 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: down there and like he fixed my ear, which is cool. 65 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: You know, it was fine. It's still fixed by him. 66 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: Like he did a good job. But like that's how 67 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: I met him. Mickey and Cassie had been acquainted through 68 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: Denver's Gassine and the Denver Hearse Association, an organization for 69 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: people who drive around in hearses and want to show 70 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: off their rides. The Denver Hearse Association publishes photos of 71 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: young beautiful women posing next to what some people call 72 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: undertaker's limousines or more crudely, meat wagons. Cassie was the 73 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: Hearse Girl of the Year two years in a row. 74 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 1: Mickey was known for driving around Denver and his hearse, 75 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: for participating in Zombie Apocalypse cosplay events around town, and 76 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: for playing a bit part In a locally produced grindhouse 77 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: movie called Killer Inc. About a tattoo artist who doubles 78 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: as a serial killer. About an hour into Killer Inc, 79 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: Two women, one blonde, the other burnette, pull into a 80 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: wooded area and a black hearse. The hearse was one 81 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: Mickey owned at the time, with a biohazard symbol painted 82 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: on the hood. Jamie, Mickey's second wife, played the burnette. 83 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: In the scene, both women get out of the hearse. 84 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: I thought you were tired, Mickey's x Jamie says, as 85 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: the blonde woman takes off her top. The two women 86 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,239 Speaker 1: then start making out in the back of the hearse 87 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: as Mickey, baseball bat in hand, walks up and watches 88 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: Peeping Tom style. He's flipping the bat in his hands 89 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: as if getting ready to attack the two women. Just then, 90 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: Killer Ink's main character sneaks up behind Mickey, snaps his neck, 91 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: grabs the baseball bat, clubs one of the women, and 92 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: then strangles the other with his bare hands. Mickey didn't 93 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: get a single line in the movie, and honestly, his 94 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: scene didn't make a whole lot of sense. But then 95 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: no one watches a grindhouse movie for the story. I 96 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: guess anyway back when Mickey fixed Cassie's ear. This is 97 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: what she knew of him her sky zombie cosplay role 98 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: in that Grindhouse movie. And at that time, Mickey had 99 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: a girlfriend and Cassie a fiance, but that didn't stop 100 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: them from getting together. Yep. It was nuts because we 101 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: didn't date, we didn't anything. We moved in together immediately, 102 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: and then he at my grandma's house asked me and 103 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: Miriam was in a couple of days. Typical military men, 104 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: which is unfortunate. Not all of them, but a lot 105 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: of military men. I want to marry right away because 106 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: I've had happened before. I should have learned the first time. 107 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: Those are at least real military men. Cassie's infatuation with 108 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: Mickey wasn't based on any physical connection. I didn't even 109 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: find him attractive the whole time, which was crazy. The 110 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: infatuation was based on drugs, which Cassie says Mickey provided 111 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: to her. My drug of choice was heroin and xanax 112 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: at the time, and on money, which Mickey appeared to 113 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: have lots of in cash. And he laid down all 114 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: this money on his boat like ten gran and he 115 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: took a picture of it and he send it to me, 116 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: and he was like, do you want to come home 117 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: to this every day? And I was like, oh, you know, 118 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: all stupid about it. Some people are like that. I 119 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: was very shallow with the money. Cassie says Mickey didn't 120 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: work much, not any sort of official job anyway, and 121 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: the drugs he provided to her acted as a kind 122 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: of leash. He could pull her in any direction he 123 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: wanted to, so long as he had pills to offer. 124 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: Their relationship could get pretty dark and violent. Many of 125 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: Cassie's allegations about Mickey in this episode are impossible to corroborate. 126 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: In most cases, she and Mickey were the only witnesses 127 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: to the alleged behavior, But the claims Cassie makes about drugs, money, 128 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: and violence are similar to others about Mickey that can 129 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: be found in criminal and civil court files over the 130 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: last two decades. Some of these claims are also documented 131 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: in the FBI's internal reports about Mickey. Throughout their relationship, 132 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: Cassie says Mickey was controlling. For example, he would go 133 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: to the strip club when she was working and count 134 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: the number of private dances she did in a night, 135 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: and then calculate how much money she should have and 136 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: if I was short or like got too much, he 137 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: would flip his shit. Oh it was bad. Any money 138 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: she earned was his, none of it was mine. And 139 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: when we would go shopping, he'd be like he'd drained me. 140 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: And by the time I'd get to a store, I 141 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: wanted Cassie, that's stupid, and it's just like we're at Claire's. 142 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: Let me get some cool I'm a girl and I'm 143 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: a stripper. I want some glitterary perfume or something that's stupid. 144 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: And you know you're gonna guys are gonna want you. 145 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: That's my job. I want them to want me so 146 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: I get money. I hope I'm asking this. Was he 147 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: sexually or physically abusive. Yeah, So he would always and 148 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: this is this is gonna make me laugh, because I 149 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: do get nervous. I have a nervous laugh. He would 150 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: always say, I don't know why, but I have sex 151 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: in my sleep. And I would say, huh, that sounds weird. 152 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: I was like, what dreams? You know? I can understand that, 153 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: And I could understand fantasizing and you know, you're you're 154 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: you're a human being. We all do it. But no, 155 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: he would literally have sex with me while I was 156 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: asleep and I would catch him. He would be wide awake, 157 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I'm not I'm not a woman 158 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: that's like I need consent. You know, you're my husband, 159 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: totally cool. I tell every boyfriend and whatever this, You're 160 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: totally fine. Do whatever you want when I'm asleep. So 161 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't like a rape thing or anything. I'm not 162 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: I'm not hashtag me too. I'm not doing that. But 163 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: I will say it'd be weird because he would only 164 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: want to do stuff when I was like asleep, and 165 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: I feel like that's so he could do what he wants, 166 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: get it over with and that'd be it. And whenever 167 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: I wanted anything sexual, it was just like I don't 168 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: want to right now. Phsd's acting up, YadA, YadA, YadA. 169 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: But if you go do anything like you're cheating, I'm like, 170 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: how is porn cheating? How is anything you know besides 171 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: another person cheating. I mean he met like masturbating with yeah, 172 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, I was a lot 173 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: younger at the time too, and you know, being on 174 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: drugs and just you know, you you want to do that, 175 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: and even even anybody come on, you know, thirty forty 176 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: fifty doesn't matter who you are. There's times when you're 177 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: not getting anything. If you're not happy, you're gonna want 178 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: to master ate. And he would, like he would, he 179 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: would just abuse you for that. He had abuse it 180 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: for being on your period. I remember he used to 181 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: have me put up a little red string when I 182 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: was on my period because he hated the word period. 183 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: He hated me talking about it. I had to go 184 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: to therapy just to be able to learn how to 185 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: talk about my female organs again and use the word. 186 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: And even I feel disgusted saying period because of Mickey. 187 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, he would, um, he would. He would say, 188 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: women who bleed are disgusting, And I'm like, we all bled, dude, 189 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: how do you think you were made? How do you 190 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: think you were on this earth ruining shit? Like, oh, 191 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean, this is all classic woman hating stuff. But 192 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: Cassie stayed, I don't really know what I want was doing, 193 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: to be honest, but it was just like I was 194 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: constantly getting spoiled too, and I know that was probably 195 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: dirty money. I think, you know, he never worked, but 196 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: it was like constantly, you know, every finger I had 197 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: had a ring on it every finger, and one time, 198 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: out of curiosity, I went to like, you know, get 199 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: it tested. All of them were real, you know, real gold, 200 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: real diamond. It's like, wow, did did he ever say 201 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: you know where he would have gotten the money to 202 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: bude us? Yeah, because once in a while I would ask, 203 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: and if the gift was really big, I wouldn't even 204 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: I'd be like, whoa, I'm not even gonna ask. I 205 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: don't want to know. I don't want to know. It's 206 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of like that would be the good Fellas. You're like, 207 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: what is he doing? But I don't know because I'm 208 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: happy and I got nice dresses and shit, so I 209 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: don't want to ask, you know, just go on your day. 210 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: Mickey would tell Cassie that his father had owned a 211 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: taxi company and left him a bunch of money, but 212 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: that never made sense to her because Mickey's money came 213 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: in erratically and always in cash. So one time I 214 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: remember we go to some type of like court house 215 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: slash like just police station thing and a rappahole, and 216 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: I remember I waited in the car again and he 217 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: came back out and he was just like, here's a 218 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: new iPhone. And I was like, huh new iPhone, huh, 219 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: and it was a government building that he got it from. Yes, 220 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: And at the time I'm just like, oh iPhone, like 221 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: you know. But then also I'm like, did he go 222 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: in there? Because it was like evidence, you know, it's 223 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: a police station. Cassie began to suspect that Mickey was 224 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: working with the cops and that's how he was getting 225 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: his money more after the break so, Cassie began to 226 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: suspect that her new husband was secretly working for the police, 227 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: or maybe Mickey just liked pretending to be a cop. 228 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: Cassie wasn't sure. Mickey, remember, has been accused multiple times 229 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: in criminal and civil court proceedings of impersonating a police officer. 230 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: One time, we went downtown and we were near the library. 231 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: There's this like water fountain thing by the library, watching 232 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: homeless people and like drug dealers hang out there, just 233 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: kind of the spot to be when you're doing bad shit. 234 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: So we're down there. I'm kind of like, you know, 235 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: why are we down here? I remember I was smoking 236 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: weed eat a hot dog, and I'm like, huh, this 237 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: is weird. Why are we down here? And I keep 238 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: asking him, you know, why are we down here, and 239 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: his excuse was always like, oh, I'm gonna take you 240 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: somewhere to eat, but I'm want to cruise around and stuff. 241 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: There was this guy, you know, he like rolled up 242 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: to the window and he's like, hey, you guys want 243 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: to buy anything, And Mickey was like he went to 244 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: grab towards his shirt like he had a little intercom 245 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: speaker and went, there's some activity going on down here, 246 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: and he is some like weird code. I don't remember 247 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: the code, so we'll just go with four eight nine 248 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: to something and the guy said whoa whoa wall put 249 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: his hands up the drug dealer and he goes, dude, please, 250 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: I'll do anything. And then Michael pulls out his iPad, 251 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: grabs it, takes picture of the dude and it is 252 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: like again reaching for like his upper shoulder, and he's 253 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: like nine oh two, we gotta da da datta da 254 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: cha cha chid to the left, to the right, boom 255 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: boom bam, and the guy just he runs and Michael 256 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: literally were in my Honda Civic chasing this dude and 257 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, why are we chasing this guy? Like what 258 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: do you do to you? And he would just like 259 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: shut up. Cassie like just shut up, like he wouldn't 260 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: tell you, he'd just shut the fuck up, like and 261 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: he would like abuse you while you're like, you know, 262 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: like shut up, like use force, like press you down 263 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: on your seat type, like you know what, you're about 264 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: to get in a car accident and somebody called you back. 265 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: He would do that in my car. It wasn't his car. 266 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: I remember at that moment, I was like, he just 267 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: impersonated a whole as Coop and I was right, there, 268 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: can I get in trouble? Like what in the fuck? 269 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: Like whoa? And the way he did it was just 270 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: so nonchalant and so natural. He's done this before and 271 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: he's doing it again. Mickey had an obsession with the Punisher, 272 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: the Marvel Comics anti hero, and He's not alone. The 273 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: Punisher logo, a skull with long teeth, has been widely 274 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: adopted as a symbol by police officers and pro police 275 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: Blue Lives Matter demonstrators. It's not uncommon these days to 276 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: see T shirts and flags adorned with the Punisher logo, 277 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: an American flag and a thin blue line. During the 278 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty, the Punisher became a symbol of 279 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: police solidarity against the Black Lives Matter movement that was 280 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: critical of American policing. Some of the January six insurrectionists 281 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: also wore clothing with the Punisher logo. Anyway, back to Mickey, 282 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: anything you see, the Punisher logo was on it. Anything 283 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 1: you see, And he would always wear the Punisher necklace 284 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,239 Speaker 1: even when he took a shower or a bath, like 285 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 1: never came off, just like a big kid in the 286 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: worst way, in the worst way. It's awful. Cassie says 287 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: that obsession bordered on identity crisis. He literally thought he 288 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: was the Punisher and the Punisher's badass, so that's a disgrace. 289 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, no, he definitely thought that was who he was. 290 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: And that's the hard part, right when you're dealing with 291 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: the psychopath or somebody who's narcissistic, they believe themselves so 292 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: much that they will believe their own lies to the 293 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: point where it becomes true. They lie to themselves so 294 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: much to where if they were to take a polygraph, 295 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: they'd pass it because he believes he's the Punisher. If 296 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: you ask, are you the Punisher, Michael Vindecker, yes, fullhearted me. 297 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: He would pass with flying colors because when you believe something, 298 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: you become that thing. And narcissists, that's the number one 299 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: rule that they have. It's like fight club, you know, 300 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: that's their number one rule, believe what you think. In 301 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: the comic book series, The Punisher is a marine, but 302 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: Mickey I couldn't find any record of him ever serving 303 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: in the US military, and as far as I can 304 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: tell from court records, Mickey's never been one for steady 305 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: employment either. He was divorced twice before he married Cassie, 306 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: and then one of those divorce filings, Mickey listed that 307 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: he was unemployed and had been unemployed. But people who 308 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: knew Mickey also told me that he was flushed with cash, 309 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: always with wads of money in his pockets. Where did 310 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: the money come from? Why do you have so much money? 311 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: And he's like, you like money, that's why he got 312 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: with me, and it's just like, okay, you have a point. True. However, 313 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: now is the time to ask questions because I could 314 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: show you where I get mine. I bust my ass 315 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: literally on a poll. What are you doing? I remember 316 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: when I said that, he got really pissed and left again, 317 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: took the car again, and I would just go walk 318 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: to friends houses because it's like you took my car, 319 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: so I would just go walk and it was like 320 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: he had come back in the night and just flip 321 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: it around. I need to do that creepy shit where 322 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: he'd like sit in the corner with the cigara and 323 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: all dark so you can just see like the cherry 324 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: of it all read, and then he flipped the line 325 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: on them, but like where have you been, just as 326 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: he did when he introduced himself to the racial justice 327 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: protesters in twenty twenty. Mickey wore military fatigues when he 328 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: was married to Cassie. He had patches all over his shirt, 329 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: the kind that looked like they have to be earned 330 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: in battle. He spoke some Kurdish and he told Cassie 331 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: he'd fought in the Rock. But she soon learned that 332 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: his uniform and patches weren't exactly standard issue. He'd buy 333 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: his uniform at the local army surplus store, and those 334 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: patches he'd get them printed at a local shop. We've 335 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: got to calar on the middles a lot because they 336 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: knew like screen printing and patches and stuff. And he's 337 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: always like Kurdish this, Kurdish that, And there was actual 338 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: like Kurdish people who worked there. Oh, they hated him 339 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: because they were like, this is illegal. But he pumped 340 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: him up so much and made him believe that he 341 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: was actually Kurdish like because he learned the language. One day, 342 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: Mickey began telling Cassie that the Peshmerga, the Kurdish fighting 343 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: force in Iraq, had called him up for duty. She 344 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: had to buy his plane ticket, which even then she 345 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: thought was strange considering they was being called up. But whatever, 346 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: Cassie thought, maybe that's how it works with the Kurdish forces. 347 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: So Mickey the Punisher in his own mind, flew to 348 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: Iraq to join the Peshmerga fighting the Islamic State. But 349 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: Mickey's tour in the Middle East didn't last long. I 350 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: spoke to several people who were with Mickey in Iraq, 351 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: and few of them wanted to be publicly associated with 352 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: him in any way. You know how when you first 353 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: meet people or either go to a job, you know, 354 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: everyone wants to do like a little round table, introduce 355 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: yourself stuff like that. Well that's what we did. One 356 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: of these guys agreed to be recorded if I didn't 357 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: use his name. He remembered meeting Mickey when he first 358 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: arrived in Iraq, and Mickey, out of everybody, he was like, yeah, 359 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm retired sergeant major of Army, which already knew that 360 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: was bullshit because the dude was only like forty years old, 361 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: forty two something like that. But he was like, yeah, 362 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: I was retired from the French Foreign Legion after ten years. 363 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: So obviously all that time doesn't actually add up. How 364 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: much combat did did Mickey c in A Rock and 365 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: Syrie when you were with him, Oh the sea, So 366 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: our very first fight, firefight, he showed up very very late, 367 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: like right at the tail end of the firefight. I 368 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: mean he was going around telling everybody he was a 369 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: demolition specialist. Dude was going around literally cutting wires off 370 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: of IDs, so he could have got anybody's killed, you 371 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: know in the vicinity. Was he a skilled fighter or 372 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, like, how would you despire them? No? Okay, 373 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: call of duty. There you go that he got most 374 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: of his training from video games, I would say, more 375 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: or less TV. When Mickey was with the Peshmurga and 376 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: I Rock, he'd posts pictures of dead bodies on Facebook. 377 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: Sometimes he'd pose with them. These pictures always seems suspicious 378 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: to me. Because the bodies Mickey would pose next to 379 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: appeared to have been dead for a while. I found 380 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: a guy named Alan Duncan, a Scottish volunteer fighter for 381 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: the Peshmerga. At the time I contacted him, he was 382 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: in Kiev helping Ukrainian forces as a medic during the 383 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: early months of the Russian invasion. Power things in Key 384 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: for you, Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's fine. It depends 385 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: on the part of the city that you're in. You know, 386 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: the sorry rens go off every now and again, but 387 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: there's no blinkket carpet and they seemed very target at 388 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: the minutes. You know. Duncan knew about Mickey's tour with 389 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: the Peshmerga, and he told me that it wasn't uncommon 390 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: for Americans to come to a rock, take pictures and 391 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: then return home as if they were war heroes. There 392 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: is this really suspicious photo that I saw he had 393 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: posted where it looked like it was it was I 394 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: assume it was an ISIS fighter, could have been another fighter, 395 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: but this guy had clearly been shot in the head 396 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: and his body had been out for quite a while, 397 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: like just based on the deterioration, and Mickey is standing 398 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: over it, like he killed the man. It's like, I 399 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: think that body's been there a while, you know. It's 400 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: like it did seemed like that that he was just 401 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: trying to kind of, you know, take pictures that put 402 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: himself in the in the action kind of thing. Pretty much. Yeah, 403 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: he probably went down a few days later. I thought, 404 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: probably what it is, probably there for a couple of hours, 405 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: and then they took him away back wherever he was 406 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: living up. This is all in line with what Cassie 407 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: was hearing. Back in Denver. Mickey had bragged to some 408 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: of his Kurdish comrades that he was married to a 409 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: model back in the United States, and some of those 410 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: men looked up Cassie online and started messaging her. And 411 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: it was pretty cool. And I was having people send 412 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: videos if I love you, kill a Cassie and I 413 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: love you, you know, in their language. I was felt 414 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: so loved, and they would tell me things. They'd be like, 415 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: Mickey is like a volunteer. Mickey is just having fun 416 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: all days, sleeping, like telling me the truth. In Iraq, 417 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: the American volunteers began complaining about Mickey in private conversations 418 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: as well as on social media. One of Mickey's fellow 419 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: American fighters posted the Facebook fucker is a liability to us. 420 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: We would like to ship his ass out. After just 421 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: two months in a Rock, Mickey arrived back at the 422 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: Denver Airport. He said he was honorably discharged, portraying himself 423 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: as a war hero. Once back in the United States, 424 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: Mickey would tell everyone he could that he was a 425 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: Kurdish diplomat and that he had diplomatic immunity. He uses 426 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: that twos and now at the restaurants. If this food 427 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: comes back wrong, he'll be like, I'll beat your the 428 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: shit out of you. I got the diplomatic community any 429 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: chance he gets. That word comes out of his mouth 430 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: like it's saliva. And Mickey also started providing information to 431 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: a small local police department outside Denver. He began giving 432 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: officers a lot of tips, and that started to annoy 433 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: the cops. That's that's the break. After Mickey had returned 434 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: from a Rock, Cassie kicked drugs and left him. I 435 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: got out, I got my cats. Didn't even grab my stuff. 436 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: I just grab the cats. Mickey through everything in the trash. 437 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: It's like whatever, it's material, I'm not me and my 438 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: cats we're not material. Well, we're literally gonna die. We 439 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: need to get out. But a couple of weeks after 440 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: leaving him, Cassie needed to return to Mickey's apartment to 441 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: collector mail. And this is gonna sound very petty and stupid, 442 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: but I'm a female and I was waiting for a 443 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: tooth lightning kit. I paid a lot of money for it, 444 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: and all my mill is still going there, all my checksum. 445 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: I ended up ordering like another debit card too that 446 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: got sent there by accident. Had no choice but to 447 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: go and get my mill. Cassie asked a friend named 448 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: Travis to accompany her. As she and Travis entered the apartment, 449 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: Mickey was holding the mail in his hand. Cassie remembers 450 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: Mickey asking, this is what you fucking came for, right? 451 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: He was like, you left me, You left the best 452 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: thing of your life, like you and now you're not 453 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: leaving at all. And he goes in to his room, 454 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: our old room, grabs his gun, and I'm just like, oh, 455 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: so I turned to leave. Travis leaves and I am 456 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: just like, oh shit, oh this is it. I'm done. 457 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: This is exactly what I was afraid of. I'm done 458 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: over mail, and so he gets the gun. Michael gets 459 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: the gun. There was a wooden table in the little room, 460 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: and we're both standing there and I'm just at this point, 461 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, fucking do it. I'm tired of your ship. 462 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: Just do it. Like you've ruined me so much, just 463 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: kill me, please, Like I was begging him to just 464 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: do it, kind of just testing him to fucking do it. 465 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: I kept saying that, and he was like, if I 466 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: cannot have you, nobody's gonna have you. You're gonna die today. 467 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: And all I remember is he picked me up, but 468 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: my throat body slam me onto the table like literally 469 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: like wwe type shit, And I blacked out for a 470 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: little bit and then I woke up to the gun 471 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: and him just right on me, like like straddling on 472 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: top of me with this gun. And I remember I 473 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: was I was sitting there and I was like, don't 474 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: die like this. Don't let Michael be your ending. He 475 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: already fucked it up enough. So I took everything in 476 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: me and I got up and got somehow I kicked 477 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: the back door out and like I started screaming bloody murder, 478 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: like help me, he's gonna kill me. Local police from Sheridan, 479 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: a city just south of Denver, responded to nine one 480 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: one calls about Cassie screaming as she ran out of 481 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: the apartment. The officers who responded were wearing body cameras. 482 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: Cassie was sitting in the driver's seat of her Honda Civic, 483 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: holding the back of her head and complaining of pain. 484 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: I went inside. He like walked on the doors. I 485 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: tried to leave and start getting violins. If you're not 486 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: gonna leave, I'll kill you. I'll kill you, So then 487 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: I please leave it. Tell him twenty times, please back up, 488 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 1: Please leave? What's his name, Michael? What's his last name? 489 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: Michael Windecker? Want to go? Where's Michael at now? He's 490 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: like he threw me against the table. Michael Windecker, He's 491 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: inside the apartment. Through cheers, her voice cracking with emotion 492 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: and fear, Cassie told police the story you just heard. 493 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: She went to get the mail. Mickey got a gun 494 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: and then grabbed her and slammed her against the table. 495 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: Why do you think able to style? Okay? The police 496 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: officer then walked up to the apartment where Mickey was waiting. 497 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: In the video, I see he's wearing black pants with 498 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: a wallet chain and a black short sleeved shirt with 499 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: a punisher logo printed on the upper left side. On 500 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: Mickey's bedroom door was another larger logo for the punisher. 501 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: Inside the bedroom, police officer saw what appeared to be 502 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: a gun. Hey, why don't you come out of her? 503 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: You get guns in there? It looks like an air 504 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: fifteen right there. No, that's my airsoft, Mickey said. An 505 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: airsoft rifle looks similar to a real one, but it 506 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 1: fires pellets instead of bullets. Mickey told the police officers 507 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: that Cassie was lying. He didn't assault her, she assaulted him. 508 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: In fact, he said he was so sure this would happen, 509 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,239 Speaker 1: that she'd assault him and then claim he did it, 510 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: that he secretly set up a camera to record Cassie's visit. 511 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: But oddly, the camera only recorded the first minute after 512 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: Cassie arrived and then shut off comes down. I try 513 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: to record it with my camera right there. For some reason, 514 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: they don't record the amount of time while I'm sitting 515 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: down and shut off. I don't know why. So then 516 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,239 Speaker 1: hafter it's all said and done, she comes over and 517 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, look, I told her, I still love you. 518 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: I'm still worried about you. Look, I know you're on drugs, 519 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: You're fucking these other guys, you're doing prostitutions. I say, 520 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: I still care about you, but you know this is 521 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: not cool. She starts getting like she gets defends it 522 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: the entire time. I'm like, cass I'm I'm trying to 523 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: defense it. I'm trying to talk to you, be civil here. 524 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: So literally, I'm sitting. She literally blows the head gasket. 525 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: So I stand up. Now, literally I'm this far away 526 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: from her the whole entire time, not twenty minutes. She 527 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: blows a head gasket. Well, that's why I'm trying to waiting. 528 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: So she I'm standing this far away from her. I 529 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: stand up at the chair and I'm like, Cassie, I'm like, 530 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: the fuck are you talking about? I'm trying to be 531 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: cool and civil here. And she's like whatever, bro, fuck 532 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: you da dada, and she starts going off the fucking chain. 533 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: So then she starts fucking screaming. She tosses the fucking table, 534 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: starts fucking throwing the fucking chair. I lay fell over 535 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: the fucking chair. Okay, that's how I got the She 536 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: got the claw mark on me and on my fucking face. 537 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 1: I literally followed her in the chair. I get up, 538 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck. Then she goes to fucking 539 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: come out. What do you mean you got the claw 540 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: mark by falling off the chair. I got cover because 541 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: she called me. She fucking called my fucking face in 542 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: my hand. Okay. So then she starts fucking screaming da 543 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: da da da Da da da da da. Then she 544 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: fucking goes fucking ape shit ballistic, tossing the fucking table, 545 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: and then she's like next day, No, I'm over here 546 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: like this. Lewis down here and she's like, fuck you, dadda. 547 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: She grabs the fucking table, throws the fucking table, goes 548 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: down with the fucking table, gets back up, starts fucking screaming. 549 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm like what the fuck. She storms out the door, 550 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: So I try to build. I'm like, Cassie, what the 551 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: fuck is wrong? If you calm down, don't act like 552 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: a goddamn heathen. So I go outside to talk to 553 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: her and she starts running down the street screaming of 554 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: bloody fucking murder. I'm like, what the fuck. One of 555 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: the officers shined his flashlight on Mickey's neck trying to 556 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: find the claw marks he was claiming to have. They 557 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: couldn't see any. That's when the officer asked Mickey a 558 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: specific question. So, Michael, you always call us for everything. 559 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: Why didn't you call us for this? Because I already 560 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: saw she was on the phone with you. Guys, how 561 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: do you know she was on the phone with us. 562 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: I could hear screaming outside. I can hear her. That 563 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. You call us for everything, the 564 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: police officer told Mickey. What he meant was Mickey would 565 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: constantly call the Sheridan Police Department, claiming to have information 566 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: about crimes. His calls were so frequent that the officers 567 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: knew Mickey. Mickey reported all sorts of alleged crimes, most minor. 568 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: He reported a verbal disturbance when two of his neighbors 569 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: were arguing. He reported a kid who was shoplifting, He 570 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: reported a couple trying to steal a motorcycle, and on 571 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: and on call after call to police. Yeah, Mickey was 572 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: a snitch, and so if Cassie really assaulted Mickey, police 573 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: officers appeared to reason, why wouldn't he have been the 574 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: first one to call them to report the incident? They 575 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: concluded inside the apartment that Mickey was the one who 576 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: assaulted Cassie. All right, what's your phone down for me? Yeah, 577 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: you're under arrest. Turn around, but chance bend your back. 578 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: Her spreads feet for me. Putch hands together, alish fingers. 579 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: There you go, so she should not be arrested for anything. 580 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: No thrown in a jail cell. Mickey tried once again 581 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: to demonstrate his value as an informant, presumably to help 582 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: him wriggle out of his current predicament. A police officer 583 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: walked up to Mickey's jail cell door, the body camera 584 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: recording the interaction. Somebody one of the officers said that 585 00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: you had to speak to me about a murder. What's that? Okay? Well, 586 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: actually you'll need to probably talk to two detectives about that. 587 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: Well it's tough to hear. But Mickey says, when I 588 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: get out, I'll go to the scene where the murder happened. Okay, 589 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: So it didn't happen in Sheridan. This has nothing to 590 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: do with Sheridan, Okay, all right, hang tight, all right. 591 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Mickey appeared to be offering information for sale. Meanwhile, Cassie 592 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: was taken to the hospital and within like thirty minutes 593 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: that I was in the hospital, I get a text 594 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: from Michael, Hey, bitch, I'm out, and I'm just like 595 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: the cops were still they're getting statements from me, and 596 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, excuse me, hello, hello, Like when I show 597 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: them in the text and they were just like, we 598 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: don't know how he's out. Mickey was never charged with 599 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: a crime for his alleged assault of Cassie, and Cassie 600 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: continues to live in fear that one day he'll try 601 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: to kill her. Everybody excuse me as this very you know, 602 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: I go by kill a Cassie. Oh she's strong, she's 603 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: never been through it really much. You know, she's she's 604 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: a bad girl, you know. Oh yeah, I am terrified. 605 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: Every day when I hear a motorcycle, my ibs flares 606 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: and I'm like, where's the emmodium? Like you gotta laugh 607 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: at it, because what else you gonna do. I had 608 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: told Cassie that the reason I was interested in Mickey 609 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: was because he'd worked as an FBI informant who had 610 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: been infiltrating racial justice activist groups. I asked her if 611 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: she found that surprising, I'm not surprised. If anything, I 612 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: was like, Wow, he's still doing that shit. He didn't 613 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: calm down. I'm not gonna lie as a little selfish. 614 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: I was like, at least he's staying away from me. 615 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: You know. I felt really bad for the people that 616 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: I knew he was screwing over Everything he does just 617 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: gets expunged because he's working for the cops, and it's 618 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: freaking terrifying. He can literally murder somebody and they're like, well, 619 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: you're giving us good information. We're just gonna sweep that 620 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: body under the rug. Because it happens a lot. Happens 621 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: way more than we think. People get sweeped under, you know, 622 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 1: put in the dirt, get cremated, and then they wipe 623 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: their hands, they move on because it's a good dirty cop. 624 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what's going on. Mickey's long history of 625 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: deception and violence. It didn't appear to give the FBI 626 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: any pause when they signed him up to spy on 627 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: protesters around Denver in the summer of twenty twenty, and 628 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: it also didn't appear to concern federal agents that Mickey 629 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: became a leader in the very movement he was supposed 630 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: to be spying on. The activists even had a nickname 631 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: for him. They called him Drill Sergeant. Can I feel 632 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: so a jickin here? You? That's in the next episode. 633 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: This is Trojan Hearse, Season one of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet 634 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: Boys is the production of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. 635 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 1: The show is reported, written, and hosted by me, Trevor Aaronson. 636 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: For more information about the series or to drop us 637 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: a tip, head to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz. 638 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: You can contact me on Twitter and Instagram at Trevor Aaronson. 639 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: We believe this story is important and could result in 640 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: changes to FBI oversight and public policy. But to have impact, 641 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: people need to hear the story, so we need your help. First, 642 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: tell your friends about the show. Personal recommendations are the 643 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: best recommendations. Second, spread the word on social media. At 644 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: alphabet Boys dot xyz. You'll find FBI undercover recordings and 645 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: secret documents. You can share stuff the government never wanted public. Third, 646 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: help us ride the algorithms by leaving a rating or 647 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: review on your favorite podcast app that helps other people 648 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: find us. And thanks for listening.