Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're a long way away
Speaker 1: from being eligible for the All Under twenty five team.
Speaker 1: I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm with a man who's well over
Speaker 1: twenty five as well. It's Nick Shook. He wrote the
Speaker 1: article we're going to be talking about a little later,
Speaker 1: but not before we get to some news. First day.
Speaker 1: Teams are all showing up to training camp, and like
Speaker 1: as we're taping, more and more news is popping, like
Speaker 1: the Jalen Carter contract just now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, teams, players show up, contracts get done
Speaker 2: apparently when you need a little FaceTime just to get
Speaker 2: the pen on the paper. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 2: but it's it's flying left and right. And you know what, Greg,
Speaker 2: You're right about the All under twenty five. As I
Speaker 2: get older, I just thank god. I'm thinking myself in
Speaker 2: athlete years and I'm close to retirement in athlete years.
Speaker 3: That's rough. That's a rough admission.
Speaker 1: It is eye opening when you realize, yeah, you're older
Speaker 1: than almost everyone you're unquote covering, so you're almost there, Shook,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you. You really know you're old when
Speaker 1: you start calling like professional athletes kids if they're in
Speaker 1: their young twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty much where we are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about the Bucks first, so I will
Speaker 1: get to that Jalen Carter contract extension. We have some news,
Speaker 1: and like I mentioned, we're going to talk about Shook's
Speaker 1: All Under twenty five team. It is an amazing list
Speaker 1: to be on. All the players want to be on.
Speaker 1: It's highly coveted, and he had his big list out
Speaker 1: on NFL dot com. But we'll start with the Bucks,
Speaker 1: who had two big items of news. Vita Vea has
Speaker 1: requested a trade and Baker Mayfield has showed up to
Speaker 1: training camp with the news that he will no longer
Speaker 1: negotiate a contract and he will be a free agent
Speaker 1: after the year. Have thoughts on that one, but let's
Speaker 1: start with the vita Vea news because it was more surprising.
Speaker 1: I think there's a real chance he ends up back
Speaker 1: with the Bucks and that this is just negotia. Nick,
Speaker 1: let's start with the odds that you think Videvea could
Speaker 1: actually get traded.
Speaker 2: Oh God, I mean, I think it's it's less than
Speaker 2: like fifty percent possible. UK, just because I don't think
Speaker 2: that he's it's not that he's not an excellent player,
Speaker 2: because he is, but you have to consider age with
Speaker 2: this in contract demands.
Speaker 3: He's thirty one years old.
Speaker 2: It's going to be hard to find a partner that
Speaker 2: is going to be willing to give up the capital
Speaker 2: necessary to acquire Vita Vea that the Buccaneers will demand
Speaker 2: without considering his age. And then also there's the idea
Speaker 2: of you acquire him to then extend him, and he's
Speaker 2: going to want money that mirrors his production. That's where
Speaker 2: the way it gets weird is because he was a
Speaker 2: rookie in twenty eighteen, which is crazy because it feels
Speaker 2: like just yesterday I was listening to him talk at
Speaker 2: the combine. But that's how quickly time goes and how
Speaker 2: fast these things can change. So I think that you're right.
Speaker 2: They do come to terms on an agreement eventually. I
Speaker 2: don't think it lands near the money that he wants,
Speaker 2: though there's going to be. It could be a drawn
Speaker 2: out process. And the weird thing about this is that
Speaker 2: he's going to be a training camp but they don't
Speaker 2: know about his participation yet. I anticipate a hold in.
Speaker 2: We'll see how long that goes on and whether that
Speaker 2: force is either side's hand, but I don't think that.
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna take a lot of negotiating.
Speaker 2: A lot more than has happened so far, which led
Speaker 2: to this trade request, and it's a really weird time
Speaker 2: for Jason light the general manager of the Buccaneers.
Speaker 1: It is really tricky between this one and the Baker
Speaker 1: Mayfield contract, because I think they're both complicated. I would
Speaker 1: put the over under if I had been setting it
Speaker 1: for you, like around thirty five percent, which is actually
Speaker 1: high in my mind. I think there's a legitimate chance
Speaker 1: he could get traded. I think the most likely outcome,
Speaker 1: the one that makes the most sense for the Bucks
Speaker 1: as long as Vidave was okay for it with it,
Speaker 1: would be to get a big one year raise and
Speaker 1: they just make him happy by making him a top
Speaker 1: five to eight top defensive tackle for money this year.
Speaker 1: Is that enough to get him into the building and
Speaker 1: just happy and they're not worrying about the long term
Speaker 1: of it all. I put it as high as thirty percent, though,
Speaker 1: because I think the Bucks don't want to give him
Speaker 1: a big contract. He is older than most people that
Speaker 1: were drafted back in twenty eighteen. He was an old prospect.
Speaker 1: He's a very unique player. John Ledyard, who I really respected,
Speaker 1: did a list on his sub stack. People should check
Speaker 1: that out. Audibles and analytics. He had him as the
Speaker 1: number twelve defensive tackle that feels about right where he lands,
Speaker 1: like he gives you pass rush that most guys that
Speaker 1: strong don't. But he's not peaked Exter Lawrence. He's not
Speaker 1: Jalen Carter. You know, he's not Jeffrey Simmons. Though you
Speaker 1: know Jalen Carter we're going to get to is making
Speaker 1: thirty four million dollars a year on his extension, and
Speaker 1: Vidavey is at eighteen, so I could see him getting
Speaker 1: a big raise. He's also a type of player that
Speaker 1: it's just tricky body size, how much he's actually on
Speaker 1: the field. Do you want to be paying huge money
Speaker 1: for his age thirty two that's next season, age thirty
Speaker 1: three season maybe, But it's all about like where the
Speaker 1: guaran Teas would be. And yet, if you're Vita Vea
Speaker 1: and you're like, if I had hit free agency, if
Speaker 1: for instance, I have to write about it, I'm now
Speaker 1: going from his voice to my voice. I'm now Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1: If I have to write about it like some team
Speaker 1: like Tyler Linden Bram got twenty eight million dollars like
Speaker 1: Fight a Veil would make it an insane amount of
Speaker 1: money if he actually got out there. And so it's complicated.
Speaker 1: He's complicated. You don't think so, I'm not sure because
Speaker 1: we're in this weird place now where veteran d tackles
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: Are valued more than they've been over the last decade.
Speaker 2: I think about guys like I used the Browns as
Speaker 2: an example because they were plugging their defensive interior with
Speaker 2: veterans for years. It was Sheldon Richardson, More recently it
Speaker 2: was MALIEK. Collins and Shelby Harris, and they do still
Speaker 2: carry value both with experience and production if you can
Speaker 2: marry the two and prove that that's still within a player.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad that you brought up the dexter lawrence
Speaker 2: and the connection to the Bengals, because I think that
Speaker 2: there's actually could mirror what happened with Trey Hendrickson and
Speaker 2: the Bengals last year, which is that they gave him
Speaker 2: that one year raise and they basically agreed after this done.
Speaker 2: I like that that is your projection, is that that
Speaker 2: could be the possible outcome of a just a hefty
Speaker 2: one year raise and then you part your ways, because
Speaker 2: let's think about it at thirty two years old. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you might cash in with a team that's desperate for
Speaker 2: defensive interior help, that believes that they can win now,
Speaker 2: but that market's going to be a lot smaller. So
Speaker 2: it's a very very precarious situation for Vidavea to be in.
Speaker 2: But I also understand because if you look at him
Speaker 2: versus the rest of the market, he's pretty far down
Speaker 2: the list. He's behind Cam Hayward, He's just slightly ahead
Speaker 2: of Ed Oliver, He's behind Christian Barmore, Kenny Clark, Leonard Williams.
Speaker 2: In terms of apy way at the top is Jeff
Speaker 2: Simmons at thirty five point two. We got vidave at
Speaker 2: seventeen point seven, so he's not going to double it,
Speaker 2: but he's got to climb a little bit based on
Speaker 2: his production. I don't think the Buccaneers are necessarily going
Speaker 2: to be the team willing to do that over multiple years.
Speaker 1: Right, Milton Williams got about twenty six per year last year?
Speaker 1: Would he be asking for something around then? Are the
Speaker 1: Bucks at all worried about the fan base? He's beloved.
Speaker 1: They just lost Mike Evans, the most beloved player on
Speaker 1: the roster. Their quarterback is entering a free agent year.
Speaker 1: Vidavea is now probably the most beloved player on the roster.
Speaker 1: It's actually a relatively young team and he is still productive.
Speaker 1: He tied with Byron Murphy for the most pressures last
Speaker 1: season of anyone from a zero one or two technique,
Speaker 1: which is you know about how far you are and
Speaker 1: what gap you're in geared to the ball, basically a
Speaker 1: gap or right over the nose. He was second in
Speaker 1: double team's face and that's partly because of the position
Speaker 1: that he plays. But he's unique, and if he's declined,
Speaker 1: I think it's only, you know, by a little. He's
Speaker 1: kind of a one of one and so it's tricky
Speaker 1: and why I give it as high as thirty thirty
Speaker 1: five percent, Like, yeah, sounds like a lot. You got
Speaker 1: to pay him the money and give up what I
Speaker 1: would imagine would be a second round pick. I think
Speaker 1: that might get it done. I don't think a third
Speaker 1: should get that done. I mean, we just saw like
Speaker 1: Trent McDuffie go for a lot like hendrickson the original
Speaker 1: Max Crosby trade. The Dexter Lawrence trade what Miles Garrett is.
Speaker 1: I know if Vitave is not at this level, but
Speaker 1: you know, Odiggy Zuos is one that's a little lower
Speaker 1: for a third. But like people are giving up picks,
Speaker 1: people are just doing things, and there are there is
Speaker 1: a lot of cap room out there. And so there
Speaker 1: was a report that he wanted to play for a
Speaker 1: West Coast team California. His former GM is with the Raiders.
Speaker 1: To me, that makes no sense. Why would they do that?
Speaker 1: You know, who has the most cap space in the
Speaker 1: NFL right now? It sort of doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 1: It's the San Francisco forty nine. How about Vida Veya?
Speaker 1: Just how about him adding to that group? Give up
Speaker 1: another draft pick? This team's old anyways, you have so
Speaker 1: much cap space, like a team that's trying to win
Speaker 1: like that. Could it be at arms race, you know
Speaker 1: in the NFC West. That would be fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be very exciting for forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers fans that are looking for reasons to you know,
Speaker 2: I mean they're already excited based on what the team
Speaker 2: did last year, and then they think, well, we're gonna
Speaker 2: be healthy this year.
Speaker 3: So they're gonna have a better chance.
Speaker 2: It would be another thorn or another you know, twist
Speaker 2: of the knife and Buccaneers fans hearts if they were
Speaker 2: to use Mike evanston Niners and then trade Vida Veya
Speaker 2: to the Niners and just kind of make this whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I got a text from one of
Speaker 2: my closest friends who is a diehard Buccaneers fan going
Speaker 2: way back to when we were you know, kids, We
Speaker 2: met in high school, and he just texted me out
Speaker 2: of nowhere, this Bucks blow up and rebuild is going
Speaker 2: to be legendary, lol, Basically him coping with the idea
Speaker 2: that more of his favorite players are going to be gone.
Speaker 1: Soon, that that's a good transition to Baker Mayfield, who
Speaker 1: showed up to camp and according to Greg Auman of
Speaker 1: Fox Sports, who was a longtime beat writer there too,
Speaker 1: said he showed up with the intention that contract tacts,
Speaker 1: contract talks are over, that they maybe never even really happened,
Speaker 1: and Baker Mayfield doesn't want the distraction. ESPN said earlier
Speaker 1: this week Jeremy Fowler that Baker Mayfield was comfortable, you know,
Speaker 1: if if they had to use the franchise tag on
Speaker 1: him next year, he would be comfortable with that, and
Speaker 1: that would be you know, upwards of forty five close
Speaker 1: to fifty million dollars a year if they had to
Speaker 1: tag him. It makes sense for both sides, really, but
Speaker 1: especially the Buccaneers. And yet Baker Mayfield on a prove
Speaker 1: it contract year has some recipe to be chaotic in
Speaker 1: maybe a good way for us as podcasters, but maybe
Speaker 1: not the best if you're a Bucksman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: If you saw Netflix's new quarterback season this year, have
Speaker 2: Baker one of them. I almost feel like he came
Speaker 2: to the realization that, hey, maybe trying to play through
Speaker 2: every injury to give my team the best chance of success,
Speaker 2: and also to be stubborn because I refuse to go
Speaker 2: off the field as not the best move for me.
Speaker 2: He reflected on him, you know, suffering a shoulder injury
Speaker 2: with the Browns and it kind of derailing his time there,
Speaker 2: and then he experiences a similar thing with the Buccaneers
Speaker 2: this past season as part of their late season meltdown.
Speaker 2: And now he's going to go into a contract year
Speaker 2: in which you know, he's going to have to prove
Speaker 2: to them that he's worthy of another extension. But it's
Speaker 2: funny because I don't really necessarily think that he Like
Speaker 2: I think he's earned more than that in his time
Speaker 2: with the Buccaneers. Like, let's think about where they were
Speaker 2: as a franchise post Tom Brady. They had no idea
Speaker 2: where they were going. Oh, Baker Mayfield happens to be
Speaker 2: out there, needs a job, Let's take a flyer on him.
Speaker 2: He succeeds, Let's give him a three year extension. Because
Speaker 2: we still really don't fully believe in him, but we
Speaker 2: believe in him enough to give him a three year extension.
Speaker 2: It's almost like he still is never going to earn
Speaker 2: the trust of this front office that he needs to
Speaker 2: to really get this contract that he desires. And it
Speaker 2: feels as if he is aware of that at this
Speaker 2: point and is going to take that, put the chip
Speaker 2: on his shoulder and make it even bigger than it
Speaker 2: already is and say, fine, I'll just go prove to
Speaker 2: you that I'm worth all the money this year. But
Speaker 2: is he going to risk it by playing through a
Speaker 2: potential another injury if he were to get injured again.
Speaker 2: Obviously you don't want any players to get hurt, but
Speaker 2: it's like there's a weird balance between the two of
Speaker 2: like contract year, Stubborn got to prove my point, but
Speaker 2: also have experienced in recent years that playing through injury
Speaker 2: is not the best. So it's gonna be one of
Speaker 2: those things that we're going to monitor week by week
Speaker 2: throughout this season. Because he's got the most to lose
Speaker 2: this year, he also has a lot to gain. And
Speaker 2: he's also one of the streakiest quarterbacks in the NFL.
Speaker 1: Right the streakiness you hit it there, the pressure of
Speaker 1: it all like it could be electric. You know, Joe
Speaker 1: Flacco's Super Bowl run and him finishing on the NFL
Speaker 1: network desk and literally saying like, well that that contract's
Speaker 1: going to be expensive after he won the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: and the owner like having to fork over the biggest
Speaker 1: contract ever. It's high variance. And yet when I watched that,
Speaker 1: Baker comes across as very likable, much more mature. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of thoughts on that quarterback. I think
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to finish it the first couple
Speaker 1: of times because I just found it boring the first
Speaker 1: two seasons. I thought this season was easily the best
Speaker 1: one because Jayden Daniels was probably the only one to
Speaker 1: me that wasn't ultra compelling, But Flacco, Baker, and especially
Speaker 1: cam Ward all really dynamic in different ways. Cam Word
Speaker 1: was incredible. But it got me thinking about Baker of like, man,
Speaker 1: his career outcome, it could have been, it could have
Speaker 1: been different, worse in a lot of different ways. Like
Speaker 1: he's really carved out like a pretty incredible career. And
Speaker 1: even when he's going through all these injuries and yeah,
Speaker 1: he's drinking beers at the New York City Marathon and
Speaker 1: he's just he's not a big guy. You do wonder
Speaker 1: how he's gonna age a little bit, Like have we
Speaker 1: already seen the peak of Baker Mayfield. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's possible. I could he could have another big season
Speaker 1: or two, Like it's certainly possible. But he hasn't won
Speaker 1: with overwhelming physical skills. He's an extremely accurate quarterback with
Speaker 1: a great arm, don't get me wrong. Like he's very
Speaker 1: athletic and you can keep to like, but he is streaky.
Speaker 1: The whole chip on his shoulder, like cliche in the
Speaker 1: mentality does seem like it really does matter for him
Speaker 1: a lot, and like those players are validable and like
Speaker 1: he's had a volatile career. So you do wonder if,
Speaker 1: like you know, the Bucks are a little worried.
Speaker 3: About I'm gonna I'm gonna go out on a.
Speaker 2: Limb here, And I think you're right because they worry,
Speaker 2: like well, his style of play, his build. Is it
Speaker 2: really the long term success that we're looking for in
Speaker 2: a quarterback, especially as he's thirty years old now, which
Speaker 2: again reminds me of my.
Speaker 1: Age thirty one, thirty one?
Speaker 2: Okay, even worse, how about this for a career ender,
Speaker 2: like an ending arc.
Speaker 3: This is a bit of a reach.
Speaker 2: And I understand this because they're not the same quarterback,
Speaker 2: but I do see some similarities.
Speaker 3: Do you remember.
Speaker 2: John Elway's physical state in his last like three to
Speaker 2: four years in the NFL.
Speaker 1: Yes, one of the most physically dominant quarterbacks of all time. Yes,
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2: But age hit him pretty hard. Now we all remember,
Speaker 2: you know, the helicopter hit in the super Bowl.
Speaker 3: And everything else. That was one of his defining moments
Speaker 3: of his career and everything else.
Speaker 2: If you trunk that down in terms of timeline and
Speaker 2: then reduced the overall athletic ability, you could maybe find
Speaker 2: a comparison during the two so it could it could
Speaker 2: drop off a lot sharper and it could be a
Speaker 2: bad situation for them, So I understand their hesitance.
Speaker 1: Baker just looks like a normal dude a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, which.
Speaker 3: Is yes, he's not built like saros No.
Speaker 1: For an NFL player. I mentioned the Jalen Carter contract.
Speaker 1: We'll move on from Baker because we'll be talking about
Speaker 1: him plenty, but just a lot on the line. By
Speaker 1: the way, free agents next year, I've already started looking,
Speaker 1: you know, talk about a guy who would be excited
Speaker 1: to hit the free agent market. I mean he would
Speaker 1: get a good contract. Him and Kyler Murray right now
Speaker 1: are the class of the potential free agents. Mac Jones,
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins, you know, to like it's it's not great.
Speaker 1: It's basically him and Kyler at the top. So great
Speaker 1: quarterbacks don't get to free agency. Great defensive tackles don't either.
Speaker 1: Jalen Carter didn't even get to the second to last
Speaker 1: year of his rookie contract because they had already put
Speaker 1: a fifth year option on So what they did on
Speaker 1: Tuesday is they extended him four years, which means it's
Speaker 1: a total six year contract. The extension part of it
Speaker 1: is four years, one hundred and fifty two million with
Speaker 1: a one hundred and six million dollars guaranteed. So hit
Speaker 1: you know, topping one hundred million dollars guaranteed is big
Speaker 1: time the next three years, essentially knowing that are are
Speaker 1: going to be locked up. That said, they he gives
Speaker 1: up his control for six years. If you tack on
Speaker 1: the years that were already on his contract, it's more
Speaker 1: like a six for one to eighty. Then it's thirty
Speaker 1: one per year. And more importantly, like that, the percentage
Speaker 1: of the cap is going to go down and down
Speaker 1: and down as you go. My takeaway when the contract
Speaker 1: is this long for such young players, the Eagles will
Speaker 1: have Jalen Carter on their roster as long as they
Speaker 1: want to for the rest of his career. He is
Speaker 1: giving up that control. If he has a Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame caliber, all pro type of career, he's going to
Speaker 1: be an Eagle until he's ineffective. And that's what you
Speaker 1: give up when you when you take this much guaranteed money,
Speaker 1: this long and contract and makes a lot of sense
Speaker 1: for both sides.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2: I felt like this is obviously the big question mark
Speaker 2: that was next on Howie Rosman's agenda when it came
Speaker 2: to who's he going to extend next?
Speaker 3: That are these key pieces. And I know that.
Speaker 2: There had been some chatter that maybe they weren't long
Speaker 2: for each other. But anybody who's got a working pair
Speaker 2: of eyes and understands football knows how important he is
Speaker 2: to this team. Anybody who watched this defense play last
Speaker 2: year when they didn't have him knows how important he
Speaker 2: is to this team. And so if you go try
Speaker 2: to go through exactly real quick and contextualize all this,
Speaker 2: Ye're like, well, he wasn't an All Pro last year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he played eleven games, got himself tossed from the first
Speaker 2: game of the season before it even started.
Speaker 1: Was a little up and down. Was a little up
Speaker 1: and down, you like, sometimes he's kind of been up
Speaker 1: and down his whole career though, to be honest, Yes,
Speaker 1: so you think.
Speaker 2: Lash plays are so big that they justify the lulls.
Speaker 2: And we can always go back to their run to
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl two seasons ago as a concrete example
Speaker 2: of how important he is to that team. On that
Speaker 2: you know, fantastic defensive front that they have, so while
Speaker 2: you keep key guys like this on your team and
Speaker 2: continue to try to retool around them. You're following the
Speaker 2: Chiefs method to a degree, but in the Howie Roseman fashion,
Speaker 2: this makes a lot of sense. This is money that's
Speaker 2: well deserved, and as long as he can stay healthy,
Speaker 2: he'll probably prove that he's worth it. And like you said,
Speaker 2: as the years go on, the cap continues to increase,
Speaker 2: it's going to be more and more team friendly.
Speaker 3: Where does it play him? You said it was one.
Speaker 1: I mean it would be. It depends on the way
Speaker 1: that schefter frames it. In the agent's Drew Rosenhouse, so
Speaker 1: he cites so it's it's to make the agent look better.
Speaker 1: Carter is the highest paid defensive tackle by about three
Speaker 1: million over Jeffrey Simmons, who's three million over Chris Jones,
Speaker 1: Dexter Lawrence, and Milton Williams last. But that's only counting
Speaker 1: the extension money. I'd have to go into like how
Speaker 1: their deals worked with the extension, but either way, even
Speaker 1: on average for the six years, he's over thirty million dollars.
Speaker 1: We are now at that point where defensive linemen are
Speaker 1: making quarterback money. Okay, Jalen Carter is making quarterback money
Speaker 1: and he's making it next to Jordan Davis, you know,
Speaker 1: who just got a big extension too. So this is
Speaker 1: a team that pays their defensive lineman. And this this
Speaker 1: might be a pretty you know, direct result of them
Speaker 1: not being able to keep Jalen Phillips, Like maybe there
Speaker 1: is more money in the cookie jar this offseason instead
Speaker 1: of putting it off another year before they played paid Carter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you take their ap wise per year and
Speaker 2: the two extensions of the sign with their defensive interior,
Speaker 2: which I think is important, especially when they're healthy, because
Speaker 2: it's the best defensive interior duo I think in the
Speaker 2: NFL when they're healthy, million dedicated per year to those
Speaker 2: two guys. That's a lot of money. That's money.
Speaker 1: Who is next to Fletcher Cox all those years? I
Speaker 1: feel like they had a great, a good defensive tackle duo.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he has paid a lot of defensive linemen
Speaker 1: over the years, and it's a position that usually you
Speaker 1: aren't at your best the first two or three years
Speaker 1: just physically it is just hard to hold up. And
Speaker 1: so the fact Jordan Davis we've seen like dramatic improvement,
Speaker 1: so their their Betty on Jalen Carter getting even better.
Speaker 1: And when I say he's up and down, what I
Speaker 1: mean is that for entire games, for entire weeks stretches
Speaker 1: at a time, he looks like the best defensive player
Speaker 1: in the NFL, Like he's right there with like Miles Garrett,
Speaker 1: literally like he is that dominant a player for like
Speaker 1: a game or two at a time, and then he
Speaker 1: just he gets a little quiet and maybe you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't see it like on an every snap basis,
Speaker 1: in the same way that the great greats, like a
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett, dude, game after game. But he'll he'll be
Speaker 1: paid like a great you know who was a great
Speaker 1: back in the day. Upcoming Hall of Famer Luke Keighley
Speaker 1: going to be inducted into Canton. You'll be there not
Speaker 1: only a week away, is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? The Hall of Fame game is next week.
Speaker 1: Nine days. Crazy. He is going in as a linebacker
Speaker 1: and it's a big Louke Keighley year. Not only was
Speaker 1: he on NFL daily at some point, maybe that was
Speaker 1: last year, he's going to be the number one analyst
Speaker 1: for Netflix football. I don't know if you're aware of this.
Speaker 1: I'm throwing this into the the news rundown. Luke kick
Speaker 1: Keikley is going to be their first number one analysts.
Speaker 1: Before they were kind of like rotating guys that worked elsewhere,
Speaker 1: but he's going to be like the dedicated Netflix guy
Speaker 1: on all the big Netflix games. So the second game
Speaker 1: of the season is Noah Eagle, who's usually with NBC,
Speaker 1: and it is an NBC production. It's a little confusing
Speaker 1: on Netflix, but Keickley get gets a big spot in
Speaker 1: Australia with the Rams and the forty nine Ers.
Speaker 2: So NFL Daily has long been established as a fan
Speaker 2: of alternate broadcasts, you know, especially on primetime games, and
Speaker 2: Luke Keigley sees the spotlight in the alternate broadcast space
Speaker 2: last year with ESPN specifically, it was the Colts primetime
Speaker 2: game Philip Rivers first start against I believe the forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers, right where Keikley is doing the Tony romo,
Speaker 2: but doing it a million times better, which is that
Speaker 2: he's essentially telling you what's going to happen on the field,
Speaker 2: doing it with less words, and doing it more clearly
Speaker 2: and without the whole rise and fall of energy that
Speaker 2: often accompanies Tony romo and just showing his expertise and
Speaker 2: how he was He made himself into one of the
Speaker 2: best players in the NFL during his time, which guys
Speaker 2: would often, you know, recall stories in which he would
Speaker 2: be calling their plays out before the snap because he
Speaker 2: knew what was coming and then would go make the tackle.
Speaker 3: Now he brings that to the broadcast booth.
Speaker 2: He was excellent in that ESPN broadcast on that primetime night,
Speaker 2: and he's going to be excellent in this job.
Speaker 3: It's a well deserved opportunity for Luke Keighley.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it. You know, I've interviewed him.
Speaker 1: I've seen him in interviews over the years. He's so
Speaker 1: low key and I was like, does he have the
Speaker 1: juice to be like a broadcaster type has been.
Speaker 3: That's the key, though. You don't have to have the
Speaker 3: juice and be screaming into them, but.
Speaker 1: A little though. There's like a balance.
Speaker 2: You can't have no juice, and I think that that
Speaker 2: will come. But what he's going to be able to
Speaker 2: do is educate the average viewer on a platform that
Speaker 2: has lacked that voice in there still. You know, it's
Speaker 2: like the nascent era of Netflix streaming NFL games. I
Speaker 2: think that's going to be so valuable that he's going
Speaker 2: to be a fan favorite among anybody who's curious about
Speaker 2: the game of football.
Speaker 1: Now, all I mean is you got to speak authoritatively.
Speaker 1: It's not like you have to scream or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And for all I know, like he already is and
Speaker 1: can and does, and I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: They said he had great chemistry with no Eagle. That
Speaker 1: was Andrew Marshawan in the Athletic with that report. And
Speaker 1: he's been doing radio for the Panthers. It's not like
Speaker 1: I've been listening to the radio broadcast of the Panthers,
Speaker 1: so that that is great practice of like learning your craft.
Speaker 1: Let's pivot to the Kyle Shanahan news, which we talked
Speaker 1: about on Monday, in terms of his car accent. I
Speaker 1: did just want to date he has been showing up
Speaker 1: to practice on a very limited basis. He's still coming
Speaker 1: off of that concussion and we'll see when he's back fully.
Speaker 1: Grant Cone of Sports Illustrated dot Com, who covers the
Speaker 1: forty nine ers, found a public records report that said
Speaker 1: Kyle Shanahan reportedly had a cell phone in his hand
Speaker 1: at the time of the accident. But the officers made
Speaker 1: no charges because it was the victim who he crashed
Speaker 1: into that actually went over the median into his side
Speaker 1: and crashed and they determined afterwards that no one was
Speaker 1: at fault. So that is the official police vantage point
Speaker 1: of the Kyle Shanahan accident. And I don't think that
Speaker 1: there's going to be much more on that, And we
Speaker 1: just hope that Kyle Shanahan is ready and eventually, obviously
Speaker 1: he'll answer questions about the accident and about his recovery
Speaker 1: when he's back and good enough to be in front
Speaker 1: of a microphone. The Vikings signed Jamal Adams. Remember Jamal
Speaker 1: Adams was in the league last year on the Raiders. Yes,
Speaker 1: the Vikings also suspended their defensive backs coach Gerald Alexander
Speaker 1: for three weeks for a dui. This is the second
Speaker 1: dui from a position coach in as many days. When
Speaker 1: it came to the Commanders, their coach, Gerald Alexander was
Speaker 1: suspended for three weeks. And then I'm just going to
Speaker 1: run through some news really quick before we get to
Speaker 1: you're all under twenty five team. When it comes to
Speaker 1: pupp lists, just you tell me what stands out to
Speaker 1: you off of this list that I give you. Devon
Speaker 1: ah Chan not on the pup list. We'll be ready
Speaker 1: to practice tomorrow. And if you're just tuning in, six
Speaker 1: teams have been practicing now, the Panthers and Cardinals for
Speaker 1: about a week, the Seahawks, the Patriots, the forty nine ers,
Speaker 1: the Rams now for about three days. So we've had
Speaker 1: these practice reports. Every other team was showing up on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: and we'll start practicing on Wednesday. So that's why we
Speaker 1: got a lot of pupp list information and more will
Speaker 1: be coming tomorrow. Devon eight Chan of the Dolphins will
Speaker 1: be ready to practice tomorrow on some basis. DeForest Buckner,
Speaker 1: the defensive tackle for the Colts, was cleared to return
Speaker 1: from a neck injury, will not be on the pup list,
Speaker 1: will be practicing. His teammate Alec Pierce will be on
Speaker 1: the pup list. He is at least a week or
Speaker 1: two away from any level of practice. According to the GM,
Speaker 1: Chris Ballard, Tucker Kraft no surprise coming off at torny
Speaker 1: acl is on the pup list, and Jalen Ramsey is
Speaker 1: going to be out for a few weeks with an
Speaker 1: injury we didn't know about. For the Pittsburgh Steelers. What
Speaker 1: stands out to you for those injury updates to start camp.
Speaker 2: Probably Ramsey given his age and importance to the Steelers
Speaker 2: defense as kind of a star. Not you know, he's
Speaker 2: a little bit of a safety slash slot corner type
Speaker 2: of guy at this point in his career. Not encouraging,
Speaker 2: but they're also not too worried about it. That's probably
Speaker 2: what stands out to me the most good news for
Speaker 2: a chan because he's going to have to carry that
Speaker 2: offense this year in Miami, so it's nice for him
Speaker 2: to hit the ground running.
Speaker 3: It's about it.
Speaker 1: As we're taping this. By the way, more contracts are happening.
Speaker 1: The Vikings signed tackle Brian O'Neil to a four year,
Speaker 1: ninety six million dollar contract extension. That's too bad. I've
Speaker 1: been working on my top my early top twenty five
Speaker 1: list for next year's free agents. Brian O'Neill was under
Speaker 1: consideration in aging. You know, tackle that's had some injury issues,
Speaker 1: but rock solid, good starter when he's been out there.
Speaker 1: He's been on the Vikings forever. So we'll get into
Speaker 1: the details, at least I will behind the scenes and
Speaker 1: just see where the contract guarantees are, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: he's going to be locked in for the next couple
Speaker 1: of years. So that's good news for the Vikings, bad
Speaker 1: news for my list. Baker Mayfield would be very good
Speaker 1: news for my list, so I hope he makes it
Speaker 1: to free agency. The Chiefs lost in edge Ethan Downs
Speaker 1: to a torn acl You hate to see that. Early
Speaker 1: in camp, people that cover the team closely thought he
Speaker 1: was a good bet to make that team as a
Speaker 1: kind of edge depth special team er. So unfortunate for
Speaker 1: Downs that the Panthers keep having bad luck. The cart
Speaker 1: was out for Titan Mitchell Evans at practice on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: so we'll find out more on him. It's an ankle injury.
Speaker 1: Dave Canalis didn't sound that worried, but we'll see. And
Speaker 1: then JC Horn, their cornerback, is off the PEP list.
Speaker 1: That's it for the injury news. Who knows more might
Speaker 1: happen by the time we finished taping, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: take a break and then we're gonna come back with
Speaker 1: some of the controversial picks on Nick Chook's all twenty
Speaker 1: five and underta or is it under twenty five?
Speaker 3: It's under twenty five?
Speaker 1: Back on NFL Daily. It is contract season, Shook. You're
Speaker 1: an important part of NFL Daily. Your eyes are raised.
Speaker 1: Where is this dude going? You know, we got iHeart,
Speaker 1: we got NFL media. Is it out with the new
Speaker 1: responsibilities you have on the written side yet for NFL media?
Speaker 1: Big responsibility.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that that's public yet. But you're coming
Speaker 3: to be seeing me more this year, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1: So we're working on it. We're working on making sure
Speaker 1: Nick Shook is locked in like Jalen Carter and making
Speaker 1: him a bigger part of the NFL Daily universe. And
Speaker 1: I couldn't be happier. He'd be on my all under
Speaker 1: thirty five team. You're still under thirty five.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, I'm thirty four. Let's go.
Speaker 1: You're playing days long past. But you are an offensive
Speaker 1: line expert. We will get to the offensive lineman in
Speaker 1: a minute. But this exercises on NFL dot Com. Check
Speaker 1: it out. You can find it just look up Shook
Speaker 1: All under twenty five team, and we start at quarterback.
Speaker 1: Was easy to go with Drake May.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know I understand that you could think about Caleb,
Speaker 2: you could think about Stroud.
Speaker 3: I had to go with Drake May.
Speaker 2: The guy finished second in NFL MVP last year, he
Speaker 2: led his team to the Super Bowl. I just couldn't.
Speaker 2: I couldn't pick anybody else, regardless of the arguments. And
Speaker 2: Jade Daniels doesn't qualify because he's not under twenty five,
Speaker 2: and that's the key. Under twenty five. By the start
Speaker 2: of the NFL season, we have a couple of guys
Speaker 2: that missed it by mere days.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Jayden Daniels wouldn't even have been an option.
Speaker 1: But it is amazing how things change fast, because I
Speaker 1: think Jayden Daniels would have been the consensus answer a
Speaker 1: year ago. Caleb Williams would definitely have been the consensus
Speaker 1: answer two years ago. And yet I think there's a
Speaker 1: pretty big gap right now. And Caleb and Drake May
Speaker 1: both have the advantage that they were compared to a
Speaker 1: lot of these quarterbacks drafted pretty young. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Drake May's just turned in twenty four and he could
Speaker 1: still be getting better. I like that CJ. Stroud is
Speaker 1: eligible for this list, but but Jaden Daniels is not
Speaker 1: a reminder that's see, he's still developing at running back.
Speaker 1: It's really just deciding between the best running backs in
Speaker 1: the league. This was just kind of a reminder to
Speaker 1: me that John Robinson and Jamier Gibbs are still both
Speaker 1: under twenty five entering the season, and so is Devon
Speaker 1: e Chan. By the way, you could absolutely make the
Speaker 1: argument that's one, two three in the league depending on
Speaker 1: where you have James Cook and eight. Chan's only he's
Speaker 1: under twenty four. I think like it really is something
Speaker 1: that running backs. It's unfortunate for them, but they're at
Speaker 1: their very best right right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are, they are, and then they usually fall
Speaker 2: off a cliff. That's the old dreaded age thirty wall,
Speaker 2: not always true for everybody. Derek Henry looking at you,
Speaker 2: congratulations on beating the allegations of the age thirty wall.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they're usually their best right when they get
Speaker 2: the NFL because of the wear and tear that iss
Speaker 2: associated with the position. But it was nice to have
Speaker 2: two running back slots so I could put Bijon and
Speaker 2: Jamier in there.
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, that's because you're making the slots. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's okay. I would have just padded.
Speaker 3: Follow in previous formats in a column that I picked
Speaker 3: up with.
Speaker 1: So you're just a lemming. I know you're picking up
Speaker 1: a lot of columns. Yes, just send me taking this past.
Speaker 1: You can do whatever you want. So if you wanted
Speaker 1: to do that, you absolutely could. And the argument would
Speaker 1: be that Jamir Gibbs is a better player than any
Speaker 1: third receiver you could find, because you're your top two
Speaker 1: receivers was Jackson Smith Injigba and Tetoa McMillan, which was
Speaker 1: cool to see on this list already, And so is
Speaker 1: Jamir Gibbs better than any third receiver? I would imagine
Speaker 1: he is. The options would have been Malik Neighbors, who's hurt,
Speaker 1: Brian Thomas Junior who wasn't the same in his second year.
Speaker 1: Lad mcconkee, I guess would be an option there. But
Speaker 1: it's crazy when they do the top one hundred reveal.
Speaker 1: I wonder how high Bijon and Jamiir Gibbs are going
Speaker 1: to be period. I mean, if you're kind of taking
Speaker 1: away positional value, are they top ten players in the NFL?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would put them there just because of how
Speaker 2: important they are to their offenses, like both just as
Speaker 2: three down backs. I mean, we know that Bijon's like
Speaker 2: the central focus of the Falcons offense both under the
Speaker 2: previous regime and will be into this one too because
Speaker 2: he's one of the best players in the NFL, and
Speaker 2: the same as large as true for Jamior Gibbs, who
Speaker 2: took over that backfield and gave the Lions reason to
Speaker 2: trade away David Montgomery. But you're right, it is the
Speaker 2: process that I can still do thing I want right
Speaker 2: and you know what affords me that opportunity the flex position,
Speaker 2: which is where Devon h Chan landed.
Speaker 3: So we did make the team. Jokes on the haters.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is where I have a problem, and I'd
Speaker 1: have very few problems. I wanted to have more problems.
Speaker 1: It would have made a better segment. Welik Neighbor's just
Speaker 1: too hurt to put on.
Speaker 3: And no, you can't.
Speaker 1: I can't justify any of the other receivers because Brian,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would much rather
Speaker 1: have run a two tight end set here with Brock
Speaker 1: Bowers and Colston Loveland than put a Chan out there
Speaker 1: with the third running back. I think you could even
Speaker 1: make the argument you just leave Bajhon Robinson, you say sorry,
Speaker 1: Jamiir Gibbs, and you go thirteen personnel and you go,
Speaker 1: you go Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland. That's actually too much.
Speaker 1: I don't think Tyler Warmon Warren is as good. I
Speaker 1: do think Colston Loveland. If I'm just buying stock in players,
Speaker 1: I would rather have him on my team than Devon
Speaker 1: ah Chan or any third receiver. I'm going Loveland.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say that you wanted
Speaker 2: three receivers, because the modern NFL often sees three receivers.
Speaker 2: Although you're right, the shift toward twelve thirteen personnel create
Speaker 2: space for not.
Speaker 1: Love One kind of is that third receiver. He is,
Speaker 1: but he is a bigger Puka Nakua. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: not as good as Puka nakuah, but he can do
Speaker 1: a lot of the same things.
Speaker 2: But he's also operating in an offense that also has
Speaker 2: another good tight end opposite him in Cole Commit. So
Speaker 2: you have to consider that as well. And let's consider
Speaker 2: the positional value argument that you just made. I think,
Speaker 2: if I'm looking at each of those players individually, who
Speaker 2: is most important to me. If I'm building this roster
Speaker 2: out this offensive and I'm taking eight Chan over Love Loveland.
Speaker 1: You're crazy.
Speaker 3: No, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I love h Chan and ultimately I would put Gibbs
Speaker 1: in my starting lineup just because he's so good. I
Speaker 1: have a little of a bit of an issue putting
Speaker 1: him as high as Bajon. Like I guess, I want
Speaker 1: to see another year of Gibbs in this all do
Speaker 1: everything that's fair inside runs to just but to me,
Speaker 1: he's like a top twenty five player in the league,
Speaker 1: and he's a strong number two running back. H N.
Speaker 1: I'm not there yet. I'm not all the way there,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be a difficult. Yeah, I'm worried
Speaker 1: you're not going to get there this year either. Would
Speaker 1: you take Loveland over Warren if you're drafting right now.
Speaker 2: That's tough because you have to consider how do they
Speaker 2: use Tyler Warren. You have to think about the quarterback
Speaker 2: situation and how it evolved over the course of the
Speaker 2: season with the Colts.
Speaker 3: You only have one year of sample size.
Speaker 2: That's because like Loveland's your long term answer at that
Speaker 2: position in Chicago.
Speaker 3: Oo, yes, I will, I will.
Speaker 2: You know why, because for as good as Tyler Warren is,
Speaker 2: and he's excellent, he's almost a bit too much of
Speaker 2: a throwback for me to want to take him as
Speaker 2: highly as I would take Colston Lovelin. But I do
Speaker 2: think that the jury is still out on this debate
Speaker 2: because we haven't seen Loveland thrust into a tight end
Speaker 2: one situation yet.
Speaker 1: I think you was the last five games of the year.
Speaker 1: But I hear what you're so, there's two guys on
Speaker 1: the field. He doesn't have to do everything, but that's fine.
Speaker 1: That's just the NFL. And he can block, and it's
Speaker 1: why I had Trey McBride as my tight end one.
Speaker 1: I got into trouble on Twitter on Monday with Raiders
Speaker 1: fans when I said Trey McBride is tight end one
Speaker 1: in the league. I was making the case that the
Speaker 1: Cardinals offense is really exciting in one of the things
Speaker 1: I said was Trey McBride's side in one. This isn't fantasy,
Speaker 1: bro Trey McBride is the king right now. It's not
Speaker 1: Rock Bauers could go to Canton Brock Bauers. I've been
Speaker 1: pumping up since the day he got into the league.
Speaker 1: He is special, special, but he wasn't fully healthy last year.
Speaker 1: And the two way flexibility that Trey McBride gives you,
Speaker 1: he has a chance to be like the best at
Speaker 1: that since maybe gronk in Kittle, like, you got to
Speaker 1: put Kittle in that. You can't just ignore Kittle. But
Speaker 1: he is in that conversation already with Pete Kittle, and
Speaker 1: so so for now I know we're getting off track.
Speaker 1: Y're all twenty five team, but well, no, no, a
Speaker 1: tight end one to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah he is.
Speaker 2: Obviously he's not eligible because he's twenty six years old
Speaker 2: coming up on twenty seven. But you know who agrees
Speaker 2: with you the folks who make madd An NFL because
Speaker 2: they listened him as one of their six nine nine
Speaker 2: overall players.
Speaker 3: So I think you're onto something here.
Speaker 1: Top six players in the NFL. That's pretty wild. It
Speaker 1: was Stafford, Josh Allen, Miles, Garrett, did JSN get in there?
Speaker 3: JSN? And Jamar Chase and Trey McBride. That was your six.
Speaker 1: I feel bad for Justin Jefferson. What did he do?
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't great season, but he's probably.
Speaker 3: In ninety eight.
Speaker 1: I would put Bajan in there at a ninety nine.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree, offensive Lineman. You went Joe Alt and Josh
Speaker 1: Simmons as your tackles. It's interesting. Tyler Booker as one
Speaker 1: of your guards. Grays Abel as another one, Tyler Booker
Speaker 1: of course with the Cowboys, grays Abel of the Seahawks,
Speaker 1: Josh Simmons, the first round pick of the Chiefs last
Speaker 1: year who missed a lot of time, and Joe All
Speaker 1: who was hurt for the Chargers, but it's look when
Speaker 1: he's been out there, and then at center a little
Speaker 1: bit of a surprise. Tanner born A Bordalini, who was
Speaker 1: the toughest one of these guys to put on. Who
Speaker 1: did you think about?
Speaker 3: Joe Alt was a slam dunk.
Speaker 2: Simmons was difficult just because he hasn't played a full season,
Speaker 2: but when he was out there, he was very good.
Speaker 2: I Zabel was a bit of projection, I think because
Speaker 2: he wasn't super consistent as a rookie, but you see
Speaker 2: the signs of what he can become. I think about
Speaker 2: when he played against the Steelers and kind of got
Speaker 2: victimized by Cam Hayward, but that happens to young guys.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the NFL. Tanner BORDERLINI was very easy to pick.
Speaker 2: He's been one of my favorites since I saw him
Speaker 2: at the Combine a few years ago, and he really
Speaker 2: took a huge step forward last year on a Colts
Speaker 2: offensive line that I think you and I both agreed
Speaker 2: they were headed in the wrong direction a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago, and then their rebuild turned out to be
Speaker 2: the right move and surprised a lot of us.
Speaker 3: He's a key part of that. So that was an
Speaker 3: easy choice as well.
Speaker 2: And I think Tyler Booker maybe there's a bit of
Speaker 2: like personal to him on that list. I'm telling you
Speaker 2: it's a little bit more projection. But he still finished
Speaker 2: sixteenth among eighty one qualified offensive guards according to PFF,
Speaker 2: So I'll roll with it.
Speaker 1: Well. The theory that if you're closer to the ball
Speaker 1: that it might take you a little longer to develop,
Speaker 1: and that makes sense because you need to get the
Speaker 1: strength to hold up the NFL is born out when
Speaker 1: you look at the options, because there just aren't many
Speaker 1: good guard and center options. There are not many good
Speaker 1: defensive tackle options, and these are all the interior players.
Speaker 1: And so I didn't have a problem with that because
Speaker 1: I didn't know where I would go at guard. Scaransky
Speaker 1: from Tennessee would have made sense. He was a month
Speaker 1: too old, so yep, no fault there. He was initially
Speaker 1: on the list in the center could have been Zach
Speaker 1: Frazier Graham Barton are two good young centers. But I
Speaker 1: have no problem BORDERLINI makes sense tackles where I would
Speaker 1: change Simmons. Simmons and you're calling your shot. The ceiling
Speaker 1: is probably the highest it It might look best, and
Speaker 1: nflgms might agree with you. The fact that he was
Speaker 1: away from the team and you're not really sure what
Speaker 1: was going on there at some personal issues. You got
Speaker 1: armand Membu just sitting right there, who was there the
Speaker 1: whole time and is physically awesome. You also have Darnell Right,
Speaker 1: who bears. Fans will tell you and real ball knowers
Speaker 1: will tell you he has developed into one of the
Speaker 1: best right tackles in the league, and he's going to
Speaker 1: get paid and he's still under twenty five. So those
Speaker 1: are two good options. I would have taken Membo over Simmons.
Speaker 1: Plus you kind of took two left tackles and cheated.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest.
Speaker 2: I know, well, well All's playing right because he doesn't
Speaker 2: have to play left.
Speaker 1: Oh my bad, No, No, I'm an idiot. You're you're right.
Speaker 1: He could be playing left, but left.
Speaker 3: He's a left archetype.
Speaker 1: For sure he could be playing left. He might play
Speaker 1: left someday, but actually no darnifi.
Speaker 2: By the way, Donald right doesn't qualify. He turns twenty
Speaker 2: five in August. Ah, I just waited to make it.
Speaker 2: Just like Scronsky.
Speaker 1: At Edge, you have Nick Herbig, We've talked a lot
Speaker 1: about him. Abdul Carter. I feel like we were ahead
Speaker 1: of trend having Abdol Carter in our top twelve. I
Speaker 1: think I think Edge draft some options, although I agree
Speaker 1: with your two picks would be touly Polotu. He's only
Speaker 1: twenty three years old. How is that possible? How young
Speaker 1: he got drafted? Super incredible and he's doing a new contract.
Speaker 1: He's someone to watch in terms of a possible holdout.
Speaker 1: Not many other great options. It got me thinking there's
Speaker 1: been a few busts and slow developers at Edge the
Speaker 1: last couple of years. Dallas Turner, I think Jalen Walker
Speaker 1: has potential for the Falcons, but Chop Robinson, Miles Murphy,
Speaker 1: Mike Green some players that haven't worked out, and so
Speaker 1: there weren't a ton of options. I think behind your
Speaker 1: Edge picks, any thoughts on your edges?
Speaker 2: No, because I thought about because part of the exercise
Speaker 2: is going through the recent draft classes to make sure
Speaker 2: he didn't miss anybody, and I land on a guy
Speaker 2: like Chop Robinson, landing on a Miles Murphy, and I'm
Speaker 2: just like, it's just not there. I think that what
Speaker 2: I've found is the trenches are where the young guys
Speaker 2: have the hardest time to find instant success and end
Speaker 2: up on a team like this.
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy Will Anderson, who might be in
Speaker 1: the top three, top five, top ten, certainly of the
Speaker 1: top one hundred players list. He only missed this by
Speaker 1: a week, So that's how.
Speaker 3: Yep, he's still makes the job that much harder.
Speaker 1: Defensive tackles, I mentioned not much depth. You have Byron
Speaker 1: Murphy from the Seahawks, Man, what a good young player
Speaker 1: that is. And Walter Nolan from the Cardinals, And this
Speaker 1: was the position where, yeah, they're just you had to
Speaker 1: sort of make a projection from Nolan. Why did you
Speaker 1: do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because when he stepped on the field, you could
Speaker 2: see that he was immediately one of their best players
Speaker 2: and made an instant impact. He just didn't play very
Speaker 2: much as a rookie because of injuries. He began the
Speaker 2: season injured. He suffered an injury, ended the season injured.
Speaker 2: It was just a rough rookie year for him. But
Speaker 2: when he's healthy. I mean, there was a reason that
Speaker 2: when we went into the pre draft process last year
Speaker 2: you heard his name being mentioned all the time because
Speaker 2: his college tape was fantastic and in the games that
Speaker 2: he played, it translated immediately. It's just a matter of
Speaker 2: if he needs to stay healthy for a whole year.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to watch him play football this year.
Speaker 2: I hope he can stay healthy for a full season.
Speaker 2: I think he's the name that a lot of people
Speaker 2: don't know yet and they're gonna know it soon.
Speaker 1: Totally agree, and yet it points out how hard it
Speaker 1: is to find a good young defensive tackle and the
Speaker 1: classes recently have been pretty disappointing. TYLERK Williams for the
Speaker 1: Lions last year. Jerry Newton for the Commanders has been
Speaker 1: hurt his first two years. Mason Graham will see not
Speaker 1: a bad rookie year, but makes sense he went with
Speaker 1: Nolan like Kenneth Grant struggled his rookie year. Moro Ojamo
Speaker 1: from the Eagles just missed the cutoff good good young player,
Speaker 1: but only missed it by a month or two. I
Speaker 1: tried to poke some holes in your list, and finally
Speaker 1: I found one. At linebacker, you have Cedric Gray and
Speaker 1: Carson Schwestinger. I would definitely go Edrin Cooper. This is
Speaker 1: the first one. I was just like, I'm going Edrin
Speaker 1: Cooper over Cedric Gray and Cooper with the Packers by
Speaker 1: the way for everyone yes tuning in.
Speaker 2: And as soon as we arrived at this group, I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: Cooper's not on the list. And that's where I think
Speaker 2: I got lost in the process, because not to say
Speaker 2: that these picks that I made weren't good, but I agree.
Speaker 2: I think Edge Cooper is one of the better inside
Speaker 2: linebackers and he probably deserves to be on this list.
Speaker 3: So that's that's a blind spot missed for me.
Speaker 2: But Cedar Gray piled up a ton of tackles on
Speaker 2: a bad Titans team, but also on a Titans defense
Speaker 2: that has Jeff Simmons on it that had to Andandre
Speaker 2: Sweat in the interior last year. He did his job well.
Speaker 2: And I think that there's always going to be value
Speaker 2: in a player who consistently piles up a lot of tackles,
Speaker 2: unless you're like a Joe Shobert and you're making those
Speaker 2: tackles six years down the field.
Speaker 1: I mean, CRA's a good player. I like him too,
Speaker 1: I just I just think Cooper could be special. John
Speaker 1: Campbell of the Eagles is one to watch this year
Speaker 1: as someone who could really emerge. I started thinking about Schwetzinger,
Speaker 1: and if you look at the defensive Rookie of the
Speaker 1: Year winners, he used to always be off ball linebackers.
Speaker 1: At one point, like five straight years it was off
Speaker 1: ball linebackers. It was like Jonathan Vilma and Demitoe Ryan
Speaker 1: Drod Mayo. And I was starting to think there are
Speaker 1: kind of two archetypes of defensive Rookie of the Years
Speaker 1: at linebacker, and some turn out to be all time greats. Erlacker, Keikley,
Speaker 1: Patrick Willis. Jonathan Bilma was like a tick below that,
Speaker 1: but he was an incredible player. And then others are
Speaker 1: more like they were so mature and smart and professional
Speaker 1: right when they were rookies. They were kind of like
Speaker 1: as good as they would ever be as a rookie,
Speaker 1: and they were good players, but defensive Rookie of the
Speaker 1: Year that never kind of went to the next level.
Speaker 1: I would throw Girod Mayo, the former Patriots coach, in
Speaker 1: that mix. Demiko Ryans as a player is kind of
Speaker 1: in that mix. He was a good player, but but
Speaker 1: he didn't really take that set. Brian Cushing is another
Speaker 1: text in the Texans had a few which bucket do
Speaker 1: you think Swesseninger fits in.
Speaker 2: That's a good question because I think about archetypes when
Speaker 2: you're describing those two groups, what made them, you know, special?
Speaker 2: And when you mentioned the likes of a keik Ley
Speaker 2: or Patrick Willis, it's not only the understanding of the
Speaker 2: game and the instinctive play, but it's also the athleticism,
Speaker 2: the ranginess of it, and especially now as we lean
Speaker 2: so heavily on sub packages defensively that if you have
Speaker 2: that range and you can go sideline to sideline, then
Speaker 2: you can carve out a very productive long career.
Speaker 1: And I think Schwestinger leans in that direction. That's the
Speaker 1: big strength of his It's just a matter of can
Speaker 1: he stay on the field. I mean, he played sixteen
Speaker 1: games last year and he got it out his final
Speaker 1: game to win over the Steelers, which earned him a
Speaker 1: lot of praise in the locker room from his teammates.
Speaker 3: Can you do that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Consistently over the next five to ten years. That's really
Speaker 2: what's going to define it. And I hate to like
Speaker 2: couch it with like ooh, can you stay healthy? But
Speaker 2: I think for him, especially because that's his greatest strength, athleticism,
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be an important part of it.
Speaker 1: Well, player type, You're absolutely right, and what do they
Speaker 1: Similar questions were asked about er Locker, Keighley, maybe even
Speaker 1: Patrick Willis in terms of size. So in terms of range,
Speaker 1: you're right, Schrestenaier has got it. And yeah, he was
Speaker 1: a walk on. He hasn't been playing big time football,
Speaker 1: like he's still learning things. I do think like archetype,
Speaker 1: he kind of fits into that mold versus the other.
Speaker 1: And then the secondary list was almost laughable because it
Speaker 1: was so good. Kamari Lassiter, Christian Gonzales, Cooper Degene you
Speaker 1: have kind of as a flex but I put him
Speaker 1: at let's say slack cornerback basically safety is NICKI min
Speaker 1: Worry and Brian Branch. I mean that that could just
Speaker 1: be your all pro that could just be who are
Speaker 1: the five best defensive backs in the league. They all
Speaker 1: happen to be twenty or under twenty five, which is
Speaker 1: just an interesting thinking about different positions, which ones are
Speaker 1: good early, which ones aren't. That it's just it's instructive.
Speaker 1: Sas Gardner's not even on this list, and he only
Speaker 1: missed it by a week or else you would have
Speaker 1: had to make a tougher decision. But he got that
Speaker 1: monster contract before he was twenty five. So still like
Speaker 1: a lot of good young defensive backs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the like we said, it's harder, I think,
Speaker 2: to flourish early in your career when you're closer to
Speaker 2: the ball as opposed to when you're playing secondary. The
Speaker 2: same as true ethic for a receiver for young guys.
Speaker 2: That and especially now we get guys to come out
Speaker 2: of college with a complete route tree and can immediately
Speaker 2: make a difference at the NFL level. The same is
Speaker 2: kind of true now for cornerbacks. You know, it's kind
Speaker 2: of the evolution of the game. Receivers getting better, so
Speaker 2: our cornerbacks need to get better, our safeties need to
Speaker 2: get better. But it is funny little inside Baseball the
Speaker 2: debate I had with editors about how exactly to classify
Speaker 2: some of these guys, because like Dejean, spent his career
Speaker 2: as a slot corner. He was also an All Pro
Speaker 2: corner opposite Quinion Mitchell last year. Does he end up
Speaker 2: in the flex because he's a slot corner even war
Speaker 2: he played all over the place. Right, He's classified as
Speaker 2: a safety everywhere except next Gen, but he played all
Speaker 2: over the place. Some people could see him as a
Speaker 2: slot as well. I keep him with his standard classification
Speaker 2: as it stands right now. Branch gets on the list
Speaker 2: because even though he battled injuries last year, his production
Speaker 2: over his first three years has been worthwhile. The one
Speaker 2: guy that I need to see a little bit more from,
Speaker 2: and this is going to rub you the wrong way,
Speaker 2: is Christian Gonzalez. He's the I think, of the five
Speaker 2: in this group, he's the one that I still need
Speaker 2: to see more from. Because Lassiter opposite Derek Stingley has
Speaker 2: been an excellent player for the Texans.
Speaker 1: I agree. Christian Gondalas is almost like the Jalen Carter
Speaker 1: of cornerbacks in that you see it, it's just everything
Speaker 1: you want. He's going to get this monster contract. He's
Speaker 1: taking a surprising route that he's practicing fully at camp
Speaker 1: despite needing the new contract, wanting the new contract, and
Speaker 1: he's going to be in pads and everything. Good on
Speaker 1: him for doing that, but I respect either way of
Speaker 1: doing it. I agree with you. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: been in every week, every month, every game situation for him.
Speaker 1: It's just the flashes. The streaks are capital elite like
Speaker 1: better than Kamari Lassiter even and as good as anything
Speaker 1: Sauce did. But I agree. I kind of am with
Speaker 1: you there.
Speaker 3: Awesome. I'm glad that we don't. I will say this.
Speaker 2: I want to give one mention because I didn't have
Speaker 2: room for honorable mentions. And again, apologies to Edge Cooper,
Speaker 2: but the one guy that I wanted to put in
Speaker 2: the secondary group that I.
Speaker 1: Tried my hardest was Xavier. I know, my favorite was
Speaker 1: the only one you asked me about. I was flat
Speaker 1: at you, yeah, because I couldn't. I was.
Speaker 3: I lost sleep over it. I wake up at the morning.
Speaker 3: I was like a god, text great because I need
Speaker 3: to eliminate one.
Speaker 1: Brian Branch has done so much and I know he's
Speaker 1: coming off in exactly that he's been great.
Speaker 2: So yeah, what Wats had five makes last year, Wats
Speaker 2: is going to be a good player.
Speaker 3: He was really good at Notre Dame. I don't know
Speaker 3: how he lasted to the third round. I can't wait
Speaker 3: to watch him this year as well.
Speaker 1: Shout out Terry Fatteno for that Falcons team that draft
Speaker 1: with Jalen Walker actually my age. Well, but he won't
Speaker 1: he won't get to see it. We're on another rebuild.
Speaker 1: We don't need to see any more out of Nick Schuck.
Speaker 1: We know he's contract extension worthy. I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: working with you all season long. Shook but not tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Hit that music. We're going to do some news. We're
Speaker 1: going to do another division preview. People have been liking
Speaker 1: the division preview format. Thank you for that. Jordan will
Speaker 1: be with me in the studio. We're going to be
Speaker 1: talking AFC North. Shoot. We should have Shooky on that show.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get him in the mix.
Speaker 3: See of the
Speaker 1: H