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Speaker 1: M oh, well, I was doing it as you were

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Speaker 1: doing it. I could have done it. I really would

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Speaker 1: have done it for you. If I will do that. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is Behind the Bastards, a podcast where I will

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Speaker 1: not do an impression of Sophie because I want to

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Speaker 1: keep our work relationship. No, please, please, please do it.

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Speaker 1: That's how you sound. We are Wow. This is a

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Speaker 1: podcast about the worst people in all of history. Speaking

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Speaker 1: of the worst people in all of history. Andrew T,

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Speaker 1: I am that king. Uh no, not not the worst

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Speaker 1: person in all of history. But you're fighting some of

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Speaker 1: the worst people in all of history on the lines

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Speaker 1: of the strike against those Hollywood motherfuckers. It really is.

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Speaker 2: I should but yes, those you are all Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the bad Hollywood motherfuckers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm on I'm on a strike.

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Speaker 2: I'm a member of the Writer's Guild of America. And

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Speaker 2: also I realized the other day I did a project

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Speaker 2: for Writers Guild of Canada, which I don't really know

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Speaker 2: how that all worked, but I did have sign some paperwork.

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Speaker 1: So exciting, exciting.

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Speaker 2: It might be might have a union up up north

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Speaker 2: of the border. Also, but yeah, it is like the

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Speaker 2: clowns that run the studios. It's shocking, Like how if

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Speaker 2: they were doing their jobs remotely correctly, None, no one

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Speaker 2: reasonable would know their names now, like, not one of them.

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Speaker 1: No, And there's only one wild outside of the current

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Speaker 1: crop of studio heads. There is only one studio executive

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Speaker 1: I can name, and it's my namesake, Robert Evans, not

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Speaker 1: because of anything he did as a studio head, but

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Speaker 1: because of his contributions to cocaine sciences, which I do respect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's I mean, there's like reasons one might

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Speaker 2: know about them, but honestly, like I a person who's

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Speaker 2: worked in you know, television for years now prior to

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Speaker 2: the strike, Like I guess I knew who Bob Iiker was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Disney, but the Disney I don't.

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Speaker 2: Think any of us had any Like I don't know

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Speaker 2: you'd hear these names, but it'd be one in one

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Speaker 2: of your the other, like they should be anonymous rich shadows.

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Speaker 1: They could have one knows, cash checks for millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars a year and had nobody know who they are

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Speaker 1: or be angry at them. But they wanted tens of

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars a year, and so they've decided to

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Speaker 1: cause problems for themselves.

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Speaker 2: Like I think by the way, you're even that joke

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Speaker 2: is off by an order of magnitude. Yeah, you're like

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Speaker 2: to baseline hundreds and try to get millions or billions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's probably more accurate. Speaking of corrupt motherfuckers. Yeah, Andrew, who,

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Speaker 1: what do you know about G Gordon Liddy A less

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Speaker 1: than I should? Yeah, everyone does, now we've I don't

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Speaker 1: think this violates any of the WGA stuff. There were

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Speaker 1: two big Watergate shows that launched recently. Like all TV

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Speaker 1: shows about historical moments, both of them are wrong in

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Speaker 1: specific interesting ways and accurate in other more minor ways.

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Speaker 1: Neither of them really get into Both of them feature g.

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Speaker 1: Gordon LIDDI neither of them really accurately describe him as

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Speaker 1: a person, Like one of them kind of picks the

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Speaker 1: he was this absolute unhinged, like maniac fucking cartoon character,

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Speaker 1: and one of them like portrays him as like this

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Speaker 1: violent psychopath, and the reality is he was, like there

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Speaker 1: were pieces of that in him, and he is. He

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Speaker 1: is a crazy He's one of the craziest bastards to

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Speaker 1: ever be involved in American politics. But neither of them,

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Speaker 1: neither of them quite get it. I think what's most

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Speaker 1: fascinating about this weirdo. He is such a fucking weirdo.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, there's plenty of Watergate podcasts like

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Speaker 1: you can. You can spend a whole week learning about Watergate,

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Speaker 1: listening to like five different fucking shows on the matter.

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Speaker 1: I really just wanted to focus on on g Gordon Liddy,

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Speaker 1: both because I grew up. He was definitely on the

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Speaker 1: radio a lot when I was a kid, so I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of experience with mister Liddy, but also

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Speaker 1: he is he's the proto type of all of these

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Speaker 1: fucking right wing media freaks that we are deluged with today,

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Speaker 1: think like and they're all They're all aping g Gordon Liddy,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Crowder, you know, whenever he wears his fucking shoulder

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Speaker 1: holster to go, you know, be a little fucking abusive

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Speaker 1: prick on his on his dumb ass fucking political YouTube

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Speaker 1: show or whatever. I guess he's on Rumble now, Alex Jones,

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Speaker 1: when he like lie about all these hardcore violence he's

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Speaker 1: done and how tough he is, how he could kill

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Speaker 1: a man without blinking, you know, Enrique Tario talking about

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Speaker 1: how like you know, oh, I don't regret anything ha

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Speaker 1: ha ha. Oh, please don't throw me in prison for

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Speaker 1: twenty two years, mister Jeff. Like, they are all aping

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Speaker 1: aspects of g. Gordon Liddy, but none of them. None

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Speaker 1: of them have what Liddy had in the center. None

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Speaker 1: of them are number one, none of them are actually

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Speaker 1: as committed. They're all grifters. And Lyddy had some grifter

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Speaker 1: in him. But Lyddy was a believer. He was a

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Speaker 1: believer in terrible things like but he was he was

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Speaker 1: not like, he was not like all of those the

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Speaker 1: guys I just named are completely hollow in their center.

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Speaker 1: Lily was not. Now the center of him was something

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Speaker 1: like dark and evil and like unsettling and greasy, but

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Speaker 1: there was there was mass there, you know.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, I mean you're still yeah, certain kinds

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Speaker 2: of dark chocolate, but the darkest of chocolate, I get you, right,

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Speaker 2: That's the innovation is or I guess right, that's what

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Speaker 2: makes you the og is like actually believing the shit

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Speaker 2: as yea being like a clear shill.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he's he was not just a shill. I mean

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Speaker 1: that was a part of him. And in fact he's

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Speaker 1: like one of I think he might be the first

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Speaker 1: of these guys to like really get into shilling gold.

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Speaker 1: So that's interesting. He's fascinating again. There's there's there's both.

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Speaker 1: There's some weight to him, there's a degree he's he's

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Speaker 1: an original too. All of these guys are very much

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Speaker 1: consciously aping g Gordon Liddy, and Liddy was an original figure.

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Speaker 1: You know. The other thing that's interesting about Liddy is

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Speaker 1: that he wrote an autobiography and it is like number

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Speaker 1: one most of the time. When you get these guys

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Speaker 1: who are at the center of like a massive politic,

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Speaker 1: you think, think about the Trump administration, right, how within

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Speaker 1: like a month or two of him. Honestly, like while

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Speaker 1: he was still in office, there were fucking books coming

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Speaker 1: out left and right. As soon as one of these

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Speaker 1: guys would get fired, right, you know, somebody would get

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Speaker 1: like two million dollars and hooked up with a ghost

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Speaker 1: writer about it being Badaboo. You've got you know, fucking

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Speaker 1: the Mooch's memoir about his weekend the Trump White Ats

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, the room where it happens, starring some

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Speaker 1: guy whose name I've already fucking forgotten. Yeah, from Twitter,

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Speaker 1: from from from all these fucking weirdos. But it was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, these are cash grabs. Right, most of these

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Speaker 1: are cash grabs. You know. Again, you're you're sort of

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Speaker 1: stretching out someone who probably doesn't have that much that's

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Speaker 1: interesting to say. So you can get a couple of

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Speaker 1: anecdotes that will go viral in like a Business Insider article,

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Speaker 1: and you're just kind of hoping that, like, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: the the fame of the administration will make the book

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Speaker 1: worth whatever they're paying for it. Lyddy's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of that for Watergate. Right, all of these guys write books,

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Speaker 1: you know. John Deane's got his fucking book, you know,

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Speaker 1: And Lyddy writes a book after he gets out of prison.

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Speaker 1: Lyddy writes his own book. And it is like I

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Speaker 1: read part of what I do is I like read anytime,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm one of these bastards and they've written

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Speaker 1: a book about their life. I'll get in there. I

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Speaker 1: have never read a crazier autobiography than she Gordon Liddi's.

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Speaker 1: And it is it is pure Lyddy. Right, we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about this is not like, you know, adulterated by

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Speaker 1: some fucking publishing house trying to massage his image. He's

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Speaker 1: trying to massage his image sure at points, but like

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Speaker 1: it is, it is a it's like that. You know,

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Speaker 1: we did for about a year, you know, off and

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Speaker 1: on my friend's Katie Cody and I would talk about

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Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro's novel because like when once some somebody writes

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Speaker 1: a novel, you can't not learn things about them, right

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Speaker 1: from that process. You get so much more with Lyddie's

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Speaker 1: Saudo biography. So episode one is largely going to be

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Speaker 1: us reading through his depiction of his early life and childhood,

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Speaker 1: and I will be fact checking it wherever I can.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot I can't fact check, right because Liddy's

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Speaker 1: talking about like what he was thinking and feelings like

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Speaker 1: an eight year old, right, I can't. I don't have

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Speaker 1: outside I'm not gonna like refer to John Dene's hire,

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Speaker 1: you know, but we will bring it out. You know,

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Speaker 1: I read Dean's memoir for this too. I read a

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Speaker 1: book called King Richard. You know, We've got a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other sort of a number of other sources on

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Speaker 1: like the Watergate stuff and on his career before Watergate

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Speaker 1: was in the FBI. But for this early part, we're

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Speaker 1: just gonna be Lyddy. You know that that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a significant amount of what we talk about. So without

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Speaker 1: further ado, I guess I should roll roll in with this.

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Speaker 1: Are you ready to learn about Let's get Lyddy? Sorry

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Speaker 1: about our best Republican Yeah, that's that's the thing is

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Speaker 1: g Gordon Lyddy would be such a great name for

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Speaker 1: like like a SoundCloud wrapper. That's the real tragedy. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was born too early. Tragedy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Daniel, can you can you add just like a

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Speaker 3: let's get Lyddy and then can you add just like

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Speaker 3: some really awesome sound effect here?

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Speaker 1: Please? Sure, let's get Lyddy. I don't understand this, but

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna soldier Dane will understand the reference because he's

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Speaker 1: Lyddy would have wanted me to soldier forward. He never

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Speaker 1: thought about what was happening either. George Gordon battle Liddy

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Speaker 1: was born on November thirtieth, nineteen thirty in Brooklyn, New York.

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Speaker 1: His father, Sylvester, was a lawyer and stockbroker. He would

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Speaker 1: eventually be one of the men responsible for bringing Volvo

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Speaker 1: to the United States. So we have G. Gordon, but

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Speaker 1: he his dad to thank for American Volvos. If you're

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Speaker 1: a Volvo driver. His mother Maria. That's not nothing. His mother,

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Speaker 1: Maria was a homemaker. Now I just read his name

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Speaker 1: Gordon Battle lyddy, given the fact that he is a

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Speaker 1: violent madman as an or at least he puts on

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Speaker 1: the image of a violent madman as an adult, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna guess everyone's wondering, like, what the fuck is the

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Speaker 1: story behind that name? But like, the fact is, as

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Speaker 1: far as I can tell, his parents weren't like nuts, right,

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Speaker 1: And the story here is actually like pretty tame. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting, but it's not like wild. He's named

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Speaker 1: his namesake is a was a New York lawyer and

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Speaker 1: Democratic politician named George Gordon Battle, which is a pretty

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Speaker 1: cool guy, a pretty cool name, and he seemed to

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Speaker 1: have been a pretty cool guy. He was defense attorney

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Speaker 1: for Earl Browner, who was the head of the US

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Speaker 1: Communist Party. He helped raise money for a number of

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Speaker 1: really good causes. He was the chairman of the National

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Speaker 1: Committee on Prison Labor Reform, and he's one of the

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Speaker 1: men who fought hard to stop Central Park from being

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Speaker 1: developed right from like it being replaced with like buildings

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Speaker 1: and shit. Right. He was childless, but he spent his

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Speaker 1: entire working life fighting to add more public playgrounds to

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Speaker 1: New York City. If you grew up in New York

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Speaker 1: City and spent time on a playground, Gordon Battle George

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Speaker 1: Battle has a lot to do with that, and in

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Speaker 1: the late nineteen twenties, seeing what was going on in Europe,

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Speaker 1: came a tireless opponent of anti Semitism for the last

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Speaker 1: act of his life. So yeah, like a pretty cool guy,

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Speaker 1: smart psychond tell this might key you into the fact

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Speaker 1: that g Gordon Liddy's parents were not politically the kind

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Speaker 1: of people you might expect to likese raise a fascist,

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Speaker 1: political criminal right Like, they were not, Like, it's not

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Speaker 1: one of these cases where you've got like, you know,

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Speaker 1: super hard right family who's like really mentally abusive to

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Speaker 1: their kid, and you're just like, I see why this

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Speaker 1: dude grew up to be a piece of no. Like, again,

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Speaker 1: they're not perfect people, Like we'll cover some of that,

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Speaker 1: but they seem to have not been the folks you

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Speaker 1: might expect, right, and the story of how they wound

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Speaker 1: up raising this maniac anyway is fascinating. So he grows

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Speaker 1: up affluent, his family is kind of upper middle class

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Speaker 1: when he's a little kid, and like Rich by the

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Speaker 1: time he's in his teens, I think would be fair

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Speaker 1: to say Liddy's despite the affluence, Liddy's early childhood was

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Speaker 1: not pleasant. This was not due specifically primarily to his parents' actions,

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Speaker 1: but rather to a quirk of his psychology. He was

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Speaker 1: terrified of everything. Now, in his defense, his world was frightening.

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Speaker 1: The world of nineteen thirty is a scary place to

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Speaker 1: be a child, and this was kind of exacerbated by

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Speaker 1: the fact that the family home lay directly underneath the

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Speaker 1: path of the Hindenburg Zeppelin. So as a little kid,

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Speaker 1: his earliest memory is this monster in the sky, just

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Speaker 1: like barreling over his house making this terrifying noise. In

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Speaker 1: his autobiography, he recalls being just absolutely piss horrified by

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Speaker 1: the quote bloated shapes, swelling and roaring with incredible power

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Speaker 1: as it came on and on, trapping me in the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the box and blotting out the sky. The

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Speaker 1: box in this instance is his backyard and hoboken with

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Speaker 1: a family moved soon after his birth. But like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's his earliest memory is like the Hindenburg, terrifying. There's

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Speaker 1: like a dragon in the sky ampuk it he was

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Speaker 1: now he may be lying about he was not yet

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Speaker 1: two when this happened, and like, so I always kind

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Speaker 1: of a little grain assault when people talk about remembering

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Speaker 1: shit that happens with their two but it does. People

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Speaker 1: do remember shit from that time, so not impossible. And

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't know why he would lie about this. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's always like the world's most awful people are the

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Speaker 1: world's most scared people in a way that it's like, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, it would be cute if you didn't give

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Speaker 1: these people half the you know, any of the power

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Speaker 1: they have. This is this is why we need to

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Speaker 1: be so careful about like not giving people power, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You never know what's going on you want.

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Speaker 1: You see, like a kid at the playground, that kid

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Speaker 1: could be brewing up some Hitler particles, right, Like, you

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Speaker 1: never know what's going on in their heads. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to read a quote from his autobiography here. I

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Speaker 1: had been walking for six months, but due to the

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Speaker 1: concern of my mother, I hadn't yet spoken an intelligible

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Speaker 1: word I beget or to the concern of my mother,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't yet spoken an intelligible word. I began to

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Speaker 1: speak immediately to articulate my first memory, absolute overwhelming fear.

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Speaker 1: So he starts speaking to try to express to his

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Speaker 1: mom how scared he is of the Zeppelin now. His

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Speaker 1: second memory comes in the spring of nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 1: when he and his mother and sister had moved to

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Speaker 1: d C temporarily. Their grandfather was dying of terminal cancer,

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Speaker 1: and Sylvester wanted to care for his father. I think

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Speaker 1: he didn't want the family to have to be there.

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Speaker 1: Maybe their grandpa didn't want his grandkids to see him

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Speaker 1: like that. But while he was there, he experienced like,

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Speaker 1: while you know, he's living with his mom in d C,

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Speaker 1: there's like a fire drill at the building they're living,

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Speaker 1: like a surprise fire drill, and he's too young to

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Speaker 1: really understand it. So he recalls experiencing absolute overwhelming fear. Quote.

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Speaker 1: The early memories that follow are still fragmented, but the

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Speaker 1: theme is common. Lying on the floor, or as my

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Speaker 1: paternal grandmother lashed me with a leather harness, shouting bad,

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Speaker 1: bad fear, my mother insisting I not use my left

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Speaker 1: hand as she forced me into right handedness, and my

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Speaker 1: inability to understand why more Fear rounding the corner and

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Speaker 1: coming upon a truck mounted vacuum, a giant air hose

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Speaker 1: sneaking across the sidewalk from a huge bag suction engine

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Speaker 1: rolling as it cleaned the flus of coal furnaces, running

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Speaker 1: from the sound, and the threat no certainty that I

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Speaker 1: would be sucked inside the monster bag. Fear soon My

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Speaker 1: every waking moment was ruled by that overriding emotion, fear.

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Speaker 1: So you've got this mix of like, yeah, understandable stuff, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: his grandma was, you know, very aggressive with her punishment

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Speaker 1: of him. I don't think uncommonly so for the area,

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Speaker 1: but like that's a scary thing to deal with. His

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Speaker 1: mom didn't want him to be left handed, and like

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Speaker 1: that scared him. And then like just shit, he and

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Speaker 1: these like nightmare vacuums driving around cleaning out flues and shit,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's just scared of everything as a kid.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: That also, though, I will say, having said the last thing,

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Speaker 2: I guess if he's taking all these pains to I

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Speaker 2: guess I'm just so conditioned to assume he's like a

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Speaker 2: lying lunatic that if he's trying to convince us how

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Speaker 2: scared he was.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm thinking he simply wasn't. I mean maybe right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's the thing, one way or the other. He

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Speaker 1: does say a lot about him, but like, right, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know why he would lie about

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Speaker 1: this in particular. I guess, you know, because it builds

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Speaker 1: to something later. But like, yeah, I don't find this unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Like when I was elementary school, I had a teacher

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Speaker 1: who like would harass me about using my left hand right,

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Speaker 1: like that was not an uncommon thing back, especially for Catholics. Right,

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Speaker 1: if it's written to it, this is like post jail,

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Speaker 1: though I guess it's like it's nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 2: He writes, this is like this is how I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to justify my the way I am. That that would

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Speaker 2: be my only thought as to, yeah, whether or not

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Speaker 2: it's a lie. But the emphasis this yeah, because the

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Speaker 2: other counterpoint is everything he described is very COVID. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are afraid of those things. I

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Speaker 2: don't see how you're more afraid of those things.

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Speaker 1: A lot of kids grow I think what's interesting is

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Speaker 1: sort of his reaction to the fear. But he he

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Speaker 1: has as we'll talk about he develops a I don't

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Speaker 1: think the fear that he has is abnormal, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of kids get scared of weird shit. I think

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Speaker 1: his his obsession with like his fear as a failure,

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Speaker 1: a moral failing for him is the thing that is

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Speaker 1: interesting to look what I Yeah, that is kind of

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Speaker 1: where we're going here. So he's also a sickly kid.

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Speaker 1: He has probably I think it would be asthma, and

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Speaker 1: so his his treatment for this is that he would

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Speaker 1: spend hours every day in a tint in his bedroom

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Speaker 1: breathing medicated steam with a mustard plast, a mustard plast

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Speaker 1: on his chest. The gold there was to relieve mucus congestion,

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Speaker 1: to stop his persistent cough. And it's here I should

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Speaker 1: note some of the something, which is that g Gordon

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Speaker 1: Lyddy and I actually have a lot in common because

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Speaker 1: I had the I had the modern version of that.

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Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I had asthma and I

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Speaker 1: would have to spend hours almost every night hooked up

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Speaker 1: to this weird machine the size of a projector that

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Speaker 1: like pumped all butterol missed into my lungs. Like that

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Speaker 1: was like a thing that I had to do as

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Speaker 1: a little kid. I was like reading that was weird

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Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, yeah, I've been through that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's not I think Liddy's certainly that's

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Speaker 1: Liddy's experience. Seems like it was more physically unpleasant, but

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Speaker 1: even like mine was not painful, but it is this

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Speaker 1: weird thing that kind of separates you from like other kids,

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Speaker 1: from your your your brothers and sisters, from your your

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Speaker 1: family members, you're and stuff like the fact that you

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Speaker 1: have to spend all this time like attached to this machine,

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Speaker 1: like I'm sure it also to do something, you know,

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Speaker 1: a sick yeah, yeah, yeah, in order to keep breathing right. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My asthma was ever that bad.

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Speaker 2: But I did have a trip where I came back

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I had the I I think they had

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Speaker 2: a manual version of this at the at the urgent Care,

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Speaker 2: which was just like, I don't know, a fucking fire

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Speaker 2: extinguishers volume, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What we need. I don't understand why these don't exist.

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00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: Andrew is our butterol cigarettes. I would smoke those still,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want I just want to I just

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Speaker 1: want to chain smoke for health. You know, it's.

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Speaker 2: Probably not impossible to get a little vape cartridge of LB.

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Speaker 1: Just just vaping out bututerol. Like you know, I just

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Speaker 1: blow it. I'm still health about you fuckers.

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Speaker 2: Blowing steroid clouds, steroid cotton.

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Speaker 1: This is a fifty to fifty mix of al butterol

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Speaker 1: and tobacco. Oh my god, that would make my flavor.

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Speaker 1: That would burst my heart. Yeah, it seems healthy. So yeah,

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00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: he's got this experience, and I think, probably to a degree,

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Speaker 1: separates him from it. And you have to when you're

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Speaker 1: doing this. Lyddy is always a guy who lives inside

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Speaker 1: his head to a significant extent. He's and that's part

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Speaker 1: of why he's so unhinged, as he's always he's thinking

380
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Speaker 1: about like very strange things all the time. His mind

381
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Speaker 1: is like NonStop going in these kind of manic circles.

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Speaker 1: That is part of why he becomes like the plotter

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Speaker 1: that he becomes. And I think, you know, given that

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Speaker 1: I went through something similar, I kind of might tie

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Speaker 1: some of it back to that, Like it's hard not

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Speaker 1: to just sort of get stuck in your own head

387
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 1: a lot when you have that as an early life experience.

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Speaker 1: His grandpa dies in thirty five and the family moves

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Speaker 1: back to Hoboken together, you know, and he's he you know,

390
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Speaker 1: is a is a weird little kid, he recalls being

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Speaker 1: because he's kind of raised in the city and the suburbs,

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Speaker 1: absolutely terrified of the natural world. As a little kid,

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Speaker 1: nature was so alien to him that like one of

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Speaker 1: his earliest fears is the fact that moths would arrive

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Speaker 1: at nighttime. Quote. I had been frightened for the first

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00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: time a moth fluttered against my bedroom window on a

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Speaker 1: warm summer night, the light through a giant shadow on

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Speaker 1: the opposite wall, terrifying me, frantic screams, then my mother

399
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Speaker 1: explaining it was just a harmless moth or perhaps a miller.

400
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: From that moment on, the night was filled with giant

401
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: moth millers out to get me. I knew it. So

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00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: my fear grew each to experience breeding more so he's

403
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Speaker 1: by at least if you believe his sort of yah

404
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 1: recitation of events, he is just stacking up these like

405
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: very normal experiences that are deeply traumatizing to him.

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Speaker 2: And like, yeah, I guess it's like, I mean, right now,

407
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Speaker 2: I see what you're saying about, Like why would he

408
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Speaker 2: make this up?

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00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, in this detail and this like yeah, I think

410
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: some of this must be true. Is does he play

411
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: it up? Sure? I mean, that's the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: that he is, you know. And I also think I'm

413
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Speaker 1: certain the way you know, this happens to all of

414
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Speaker 1: us to some extent over time. You know, your memories,

415
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: you think on them, you change them, you tell stories.

416
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: You know, maybe you jazz something up for a story

417
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: you tell somebody, and like that makes it into your memory. Right,

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00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: So I think there's probably just something obviously as happens

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Speaker 1: to most people, because I do think he probably believes

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Speaker 1: a lot of this, whether or not it's all literally true.

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Speaker 1: Another one of his most searing in a literal sense

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00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: early moments is later that same summer, you know, where

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00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: he becomes terrified of moths. His parents take him camping

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Speaker 1: in the woods, maybe to try to get him over

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00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: that fear. And in the morning, he's like poking around

426
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: their campfire spot and he picks up a coal that

427
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: he doesn't realize is burning, and it like hurts him.

428
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: It burns his hand. Now, I think most kids have

429
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: a version of that. I burnt myself in a car

430
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: lighter by accident when I was a kid. We used

431
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 1: to have those and if you're a gen z kid.

432
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: We used to have cigarette lighters built into every car.

433
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: If you want to know how much your grandparents smoked.

434
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: That was just the world for a while. Yeah, yeah,

435
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: and electronic like lighter yeah, flame. No, he popped out

436
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: of the car and I'll light your cigarette.

437
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: I tried to pick up a spent sparkler moments after

438
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: it had got out.

439
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not wise again, almost a I'm gonna guess

440
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: very close to one hundred percent of people listening, whether

441
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: or not they remember it. At a moment like this,

442
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 1: it's basically every kid you know touches something hot at

443
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: some point and hurts themselves. Lyddy describes this as investing

444
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: in him a pathological fear of both fire and pain,

445
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: and his suffering increased when his doctor prescribed him regular

446
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: hypodermic injections for his respiratory I think these are allergy shots,

447
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 1: which I also got as a kid. So again, this

448
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: becomes like this constant regular because he's doing this every month.

449
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: This is just like this endless fucking train of horror

450
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: for him, where like he's just constantly dreading the next

451
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: time he's gonna go get this shot and deal with

452
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: this pain. Right at the same time, he develops you

453
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: know what's to be his worst childhood terror, which is

454
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: a fear of God. Again very common. His family is

455
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: this poor kid is just miserable. His family is super Catholic,

456
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: and he goes to a Catholic school that Lyddy refers

457
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: to exclusively as SS. I believe the s's stand for

458
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: it's it's the Peter and Paul Roman Catholic Church. I

459
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: think the two s's are Saint Peter and Saint Paul.

460
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: But he's also he talks about the Naziss constantly in

461
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: this in moments where it has nothing to do with

462
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: what he's like referencing, Like, he loves bringing up the SS.

463
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: So I don't think anyone else called the school this,

464
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: I think you is just he found it another way

465
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: he could write SS out and so he had to

466
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: do it.

467
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 2: I mean that's another thing the modern loves to do

468
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: is just remind you that zis just a little bit.

469
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: Oh, Andrew Hitler didn't love the Nazis as much as

470
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: g Gordon Lyddy did. This guy, Ah, it's so funny.

471
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: Here's how he describes his religious upbringing. Quote, God we

472
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: were informed was omnipotent, unlimited power, demanded and deserved the

473
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: utmost reverence and deference, and left no room for a

474
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: sloppily performed sign of the cross. An imprecise sign of

475
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: the cross was an insult to God, punishable by a

476
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: sudden crack on the head from monitoring nuns. Such punishment

477
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: was to be received gratefully, otherwise retribution might come from

478
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: God himself. The retribution of Almighty God for a sloppily

479
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: made sign of the cross was terrible. Only last year

480
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: we were solemnly assured a lazy, a reverent, careless boy

481
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: had made a sloppy sign of the cross while saying

482
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: his nightly prayers. The good nuns alas were not present

483
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: to crack him on the head, and as God was

484
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: not one to let such a sin go unpunished. The

485
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: next morning, the little boy found his right arm withered, twisted,

486
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: and paralyzed for life. Ah yeah, I love the Catholic shit.

487
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: Such ah so funny, My God just ruining children, just

488
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: just going off like a bomb in millions of childhoods

489
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: around the world.

490
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah for making the gang sign, Lazil.

491
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking up to get the Catholic gang sign.

492
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck are you talking about God? You

493
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: do this all the what God has so much time?

494
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, imagine like it's so hard for me to

495
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: get into the head of someone who is like, yes,

496
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: God is constantly watching small children to see if they

497
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: make like a minor mistake in the positioning of their hands,

498
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: and he will cripple them for life for doing so.

499
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: Like yeah, because like none of them ever frame it

500
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 1: as like, yeah, you know, I'm a Catholic because God's

501
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: fucking nuts, like this is the only way to avoid

502
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: his anger, like fuck, fuck the guy, but I just

503
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: don't want to death, Like yeah, I'd like I'm a

504
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: little bit more, you know, if people prefer to do

505
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: him a little bit more like a mob boss, like yeah,

506
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: if you don't pay your protection, he's gonna fuck you up.

507
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

508
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? It's got I guess there

509
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: are some people who talk about him that way, but

510
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: usually it's all dressed up and anyway whatever. Well, salvation

511
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: are the ones that are like, if there is a God,

512
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: what's preventing you from raping and murdering? And and that

513
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: those are the people you have to look at the

514
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: hardest because you're like, uh, I mean I could think

515
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: of things man a lot. I don't really want to

516
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: do those things. I guess it's. Yeah, So whether or

517
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: not he exaggerated his experience here, and I don't think

518
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: he did. I know some people, including my dad, who

519
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: grew up Catholic in this, well, my dad was, you know,

520
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: not this old, but like I've known people who were

521
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: kind of from you know, around that period of time

522
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: and raised in Catholic schools, and like you get stories

523
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: like this from the nuns. A lot of old Catholics

524
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: have horror stories from the nuns. And yeah, the fact

525
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: that Liddy's like like living in fucking constant fear of

526
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: God is not like when I was a kid, I

527
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: had a period of time I went through like that.

528
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: We're like I would just be terrified because I'd like

529
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 1: killed a bug or something while playing and like, oh

530
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: my god, if I like damned myself to hell for eternity.

531
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: You shouldn't tell kids about stuff like that, you know. Well,

532
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: it's the same as.

533
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: Like dare too because the and you're like, oh.

534
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: None of this matters, I'm gonna murder all the bugs

535
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: fucking you know, I'm the reason there aren't any fucking

536
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: fireflies anymore. I wiped them all out, you know, just

537
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: just just to spite the Lord got them anyway. Speaking

538
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: of genocide, you know who else likes wiping out? You know,

539
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: the natural world in order.

540
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: To extinctions doesn't have to be ansde every gedocide.

541
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not every genocide, but some you know, some genocides. Yes,

542
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: his ads, we're back so so far, most of Liddy's

543
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: experiences in the world have been terrifying and negative. But

544
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: he did have one shining really, he had two shining

545
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: things that one of them is reading. He becomes a

546
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: reader from an early age. He finds himself particularly in

547
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: love with like a lot of this kind of colonial fiction,

548
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: Ruyard Kipling and the like, you know, the stuff you

549
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: would expect. And then the other thing that he has

550
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: he viewed as kind of a wholly positive thing from

551
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: his childhood was patriotism. The nuns, he said, introduced him

552
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: to authority, first God and then the flag. After morning prayers,

553
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: they would pledge allegiance to the flag. And you know,

554
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: the nuns were as strict about this as anything else.

555
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: Here's how he writes about learning how to do the

556
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: pledge of allegiance. We stood at rigid attention, facing the flag,

557
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: in lines straight enough to rival those of the mast

558
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: SS and Lenny rievenstalls triumph of the will began at

559
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: the words to the flag. We shot out our right

560
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: arms and unison palms down straight as so many spears

561
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: aimed directly at the flag. It was the salute of

562
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: Caesar's legions, recently popular in Germany, Italy and Spain. Is

563
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: that not true? Oh yeah, no, there you can find

564
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: pictures of American schools. It was not like universal, but

565
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: it was not wildly uncommon for kids in some schools

566
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: and some you know, fucking especially some private schools to

567
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: do the fascist salute, you know, which was previously the

568
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: Roman salute, right, or at least a variant of it. Yeah,

569
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: so it's not like other kids have this experience, right,

570
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: there's no reason you think he's lying about this. It

571
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: is insane that he just like he has he's described

572
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: because he's describing it as like the SS. But he

573
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that in like a negative sense like he has.

574
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: There's at no point does he like think about this

575
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: kind of fucked up to do that? Is it bad?

576
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: If we look at like where the Nazis win. Does

577
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: it may be bad to do this with kids? Absolutely

578
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: not for a second. Does g Gordon Lyddy consider that

579
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: he was organized? We were as organized as thes, my friends,

580
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: my buddies, the ssh what a maniac. So, oh my god,

581
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: this is where we should introduce his second mother, the

582
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: family housekeeper, a German immigrant named Toresa. Now, if you've

583
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: had like rich or very upper middle class friends, you know,

584
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: when you were a kid, you may have like known

585
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 1: someone who had like a nanny, a full time nanny,

586
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: sometimes even a live in nanny who like helped raise

587
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: them as a kid. I had a friend who grew

588
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: up in a similar circumstance and expressed to me at

589
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: one point that it was like really confusing to him

590
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: as a little kid because he kind of didn't know

591
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: entirely whether this was his mom or his mom was

592
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: his mom, because like the nanny did a lot more.

593
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, that was like, yeah, that is

594
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: kind of a weird thing to put a kid through, right,

595
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: And there's this moment that kids like that tend to

596
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: have where they like realize this person who is kind

597
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: of a mom to them is an employee of their parents, right,

598
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: is there because they're being paid. It's taking care of

599
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: them because they're being paid, And like that can mess

600
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: you up a bit. In Gordon's case, this is going

601
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: to mess him up a lot because Teresa is also

602
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: a literal Nazi. She is a German immigrant to the

603
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: United States. She's absolutely obsessed with the Nazis. With Hitler,

604
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: she tells him all of these wonderful stories of her homeland, Germany,

605
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: all of these different myths and legends, and she talks

606
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: to him constantly about this terrible war that Germany went

607
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: through before he was born, and how afterwards the country

608
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: fell into chaos. But now a hero has arisen and

609
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: is in the process of saving the German nation. Quote.

610
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: Great roads were being built, and unlike in the United States,

611
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: everyone in German and he now had a job. My

612
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: mother had won an Emerson shortwave radio in a raffle

613
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: at Sspeter and Paul Parrish and Teresa and I would

614
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: listen to programs broadcast from her native land, the volume

615
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: swelling and receding in cycles. Now Lyddy had listened to

616
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: FDR on the radio like most Americans in the Great Depression,

617
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: and he had found some comfort in that saying, we

618
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: have nothing to fear but fear itself as a scared

619
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: little kid, but nothing in his life up to that

620
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: point had inspired or influenced him the way his first

621
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: Hitler speech did. This is the defining moment of his childhood.

622
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: Now in his autobiography, Lyddy claims to have had a

623
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: memory like a tape recorder. Given how bad he actually

624
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: is as a spy, I think he's lying about this,

625
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: but he claims. He claims that he can replay audio

626
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: perfectly in his head and like sometimes an involuntary switch

627
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: will throw and he'll hear music that will like launch

628
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: him into a certain emotional state. I don't know the

629
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: degree to which I think that he's telling the truth

630
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: about this, But also, I'm gonna read you this paragraph.

631
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't know fully why you would lie about this.

632
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god. The music that poured through the Emerson

633
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: from Germany was marshal and inspiring. I lost myself and

634
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: its strains. It made me feel a strength inside I

635
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: had never known before from playmates who were German, I

636
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: learned some of the language. One day, Teresa was excited

637
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: he was going to be on the radio just wait

638
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: till I hear him speak eagerly. I joined her at

639
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: the Emerson. First, the music, the now familiar strains of

640
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: a song that started defan Hoch raise the banner. It

641
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: was a rousing, powerful anthem, the horsted Vessel song. Now, Cambrew,

642
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: we got to take a second here, do you know

643
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: what the horse vessel lied is? No, it's the horse

644
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: vessel song. Horst. So back during the rise of the

645
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: Nazi Parties, before Hitler's in power, Joseph Goebbels, the future

646
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: Propaganda Minister, ran the party's Berlin operations, and a big

647
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 1: part of his plan was to Winstan get a series

648
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: of running fights and raids with communists and social Democrats

649
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: in order to spark media condemnation of chaos and disrupt

650
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: the organizing of the party's enemies. Right, he's both trying

651
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: to get like the media flipping out about like, ah,

652
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: there's so much chaos. We really need a law and

653
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: order guy in office, and also trying to like physically

654
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: murder and hurt, you know, two for one. So you

655
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: do the violence and then you step into self the violence. Now,

656
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: one of Joe's top thugs is a guy named Horst

657
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: vessel and Horst is a construction worker. He is a

658
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: low level gangster and a pimp. He is running a

659
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: prostitution racket out of his apartment, and his landlady, he

660
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: was a widow of a Communist party member, is scared

661
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: that she will lose the apartment if the police catched

662
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: Horset running an illegal business out of it. Now, there

663
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: is a debate about precisely what happened, but the generally

664
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: accepted story is that Horst refused to pay his rent

665
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: and threatened to beat his landlady. She goes to a

666
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: local Communist bar to get some of her husband's old

667
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: friends to help her evict him. Horst was also an

668
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: assault leader for Joseph Goebbels, so go you know. He

669
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: was known for running vicious raids on these very poor

670
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: Berlin neighborhoods where he would beat people nearly to death.

671
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: The Communists that his landlady goes to had been victimized

672
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: by Horse before and they knew about him. So when

673
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: she comes to them and is like, this guy is

674
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: causing me problems, They're like, let's just fucking off this

675
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: son of a bitch. So they shoot the bastard in

676
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: the head Joseph Goebbels never want to let a murder

677
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: go to waste turns Horst into a martyred saint, and

678
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: his death is used as evidence of communist evil. The

679
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: song that g Gordon Liddy like is listens to and

680
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: is like inspired by as a child, was written in

681
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: the honor of this, like Murderer and Pimp, and became

682
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: the official anthem of the Nazi Party. So that's what

683
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: he's listening to. Right, Oh, yeah, God, he's like eight, right,

684
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: he's eight or nine.

685
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: You know what's so interesting about this is it really

686
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: puts like paid to the and like this is obvious

687
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: to anyone who's not a fucking idiot, but like, you know,

688
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: people growing up. It's like, you know, I grew up

689
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: in like Reagan times and it's like, oh, the sanitization

690
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: of Reagan and like, oh, Republicans aren't Like Republicans today

691
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: are really bad, but they weren't always like this. We

692
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: used to be able to get along. And like not

693
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: if you're alive today, not one person alive today has

694
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: been a party to a right wing that was quote reasonable.

695
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,959
Speaker 1: No, no, this is like goes back a very far time.

696
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: Like this is not well, I mean, honestly, if you

697
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: lived in fucking Portland through twenty twenty, we had a

698
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: fucking right wing gangster get killed. Here. That like not

699
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: an uncommon story to what happened with Horst. But g

700
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy as a small child, loves this song about

701
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: a dead Nazi pimp. But he loves Hitler's voice even more.

702
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: He was again, is this kid whose entire life is

703
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: feel who was absolutely overwhelmed by terror all day? According

704
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: to him, Uh, he is drawn by the pure confidence

705
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: in Hitler's voice. Here was the very antithesis of fear, sheer,

706
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: animal confidence and power of will. He sent an electric

707
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: current through my body, and as the massive audience thundered

708
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: its absolute support and determination, the hair on the back

709
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: of my neck rose, and I realized that I had

710
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: stopped breathing. And this is like the moment that teaches him.

711
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,479
Speaker 1: He has this like powerful realization of like you can

712
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: conquer fear, and like sets him on this course to like,

713
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, conquer it, like to become the master of

714
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: his fear in his pain, just like Hitler.

715
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 2: That's so wild. It's so wild that you would admit

716
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 2: this shit like this.

717
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: And it is it's weird, like again that you would

718
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: put this in a book after fucking yeah, to launch

719
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: your career as a talk show hosts.

720
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: This is basically same the same people that like respond

721
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 2: to like Jordan Peterson.

722
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god, he would have loved Jordan Peterson.

723
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

724
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: But it's it's like in the way that like, I

725
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: feel like most Jordan Peterson fans you see now like

726
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: don't admit that this is what they're driven by. That's

727
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: so weird to hear it so baldly said like this,

728
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: That's the thing. All of these modern guys, a lot

729
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: of these like modern right wing media people are basically Nazis,

730
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: have friends who are literal Nazis, like the Signpost shit,

731
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, they'll do the Fuintest stuff. But even Flintes,

732
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: even Nick Fuintes, doesn't write shit like this. Yeah. Yeah,

733
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: it's it is like remarkable that you would just put

734
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: this down. It's fascinating. Liddy never is going to shed

735
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: this deep fascination with Hitler in the Nazis. It's almost

736
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: like a fucking what's the word here, It's almost like

737
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 1: a fucking syndrome for him, right, Like it's a reflex

738
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: like bringing up the Nazis, like, he can't help it,

739
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 1: you know. And again he would always claim he never

740
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: claims to be a Nazi, right, he would say, obviously

741
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: Hitler was a monster. I learned later they had gone far,

742
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: you know, much too far, and like you know, had

743
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: to be stopped. And on most fascists who said this,

744
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: I would be like, oh, this is just a shallow

745
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: attempt to allay suspicion. Lyddy's case is weirder because, for

746
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: one thing, he's admitting all of this when he doesn't

747
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: need to. He is absolutely no doubt, in my mind,

748
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: a bone deep fascist rights has died in the wole

749
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: it committed, a fucking fascists has ever existed, you know,

750
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: this alt he is an ultimate follower. He's like a

751
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: born henchman in constant search for a fearer. But I

752
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: actually think he's not lying when he says he doesn't

753
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: consider himself fully a Nazi. And I the reason why

754
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: is very simple. It's his dad, right. He worshiped his father,

755
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: so Sylvester Liddy was his son's hero. And in his

756
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: autobiography over and over again he repeats this belief that,

757
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: like his dad, is almost incapable of error, and his

758
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: dad hates Nazis, and it's one of those things. Liddy's

759
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: definitely a fascist. His dad hatred of Nazi. If you've

760
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: you've seen that meme of like the cheeto stuck in

761
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: the place of like the the lock. Oh yeah, yeah,

762
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: Like that's the one thing keeping him from like just

763
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: becoming a full on neo Nazi. I guess, I.

764
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: Guess that is the thing that is translated to the

765
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: modern right wing too, is like like they espouse everything

766
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: the Nazis.

767
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: Believe they are friendly neo.

768
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: Nazis, but will also say shit like well like socialism

769
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: is the real you know, they love a national socialist

770
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: part or like the Democrats are the real Nazis, and

771
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: you're like, I mean, they really just have it both ways.

772
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: They like recognize Nazi is a bad thing to be

773
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: but they don't recognize or they recognize that the word

774
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 2: nazis a bad thing to be called.

775
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: It's I think with Lyddy, I think what interests me

776
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: about him is that the conflict is a little different because,

777
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: like number one, most of the guys that you're talking

778
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: talking about would never admit to like having this much

779
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: admiration of Hitler in the Nazis right, because it would

780
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: be giving away too much, right right. I don't know

781
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: how to characterize the exact nature of his belief, but

782
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: I do kind of think it's one of those like

783
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: he was his entire life ready to fully embrace Hitler

784
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: in the Nazis. It was just his respect for his

785
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: dad holding back like this tiny this like creaking broken down,

786
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: damn holding back the flood of Nazi water. And in fact,

787
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: so when his you know, Gordon hears his first Hitler

788
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: speech and he like goes to his dad to be like,

789
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: I've just heard the most incredible guy. And when Sylvester

790
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: is like, wait are you talking about Hitler? No, no, no, no,

791
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: fuck that dude. He is a monster. He's going to

792
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: lead the world and do a horrible, horrible war. You

793
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: are not allowed to listen to him anymore. And I

794
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: kind of wonder if his dad hadn't been this guy,

795
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: does Liddy just become like a full on Nazi like

796
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: his he marching with like fucking George Lincoln Rockwell, like

797
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 1: completely you know, swastika mask off, you know, fucking doing

798
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 1: shots with David Duke. Yeah right, yeah, probably, yes, maybe

799
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: there's a good shit. Similarly, that that's.

800
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: Like the type of thing that was like again quote

801
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 2: unquote acceptable at the time, or it was like a

802
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: you know in the time, it was a type of

803
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: political expression that was like.

804
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't know, this is like the weirdest,

805
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: like characterizing this exactly is the weirdest part to me here.

806
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: So you know, so again, very young Liddy spends the

807
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: end of the nineteen thirties, when he is like eight

808
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: or nine, treating Hitler like a forbidden dessert, right, or

809
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: like a hidden playboy magazine. Right. He can't be caught

810
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: listening to him, right, And he will claim later this

811
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: isn't because I'm I loved Hitler's you know politics, It's

812
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: because I just found him magnetic. It's like we you

813
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: absolutely were in look at this politics. You are a

814
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: bone deep fact. No one has ever been more of

815
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: a fascist than ug Gordon Lyddy. It's really like like, yeah,

816
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: I like the I like the fucking what the confidence

817
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: and the auditory style. Yeah, I don't know, man, Broye,

818
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: there's other confident ass motherfuckers out there. So Teresa is

819
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: like a big influence on him in this because you know,

820
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: while he can't be caught in the open listening to

821
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: his Hitler speeches. It becomes this like thing that they share,

822
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: right that like when his dad's out and like no

823
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: one else is around, they'll listen to some Hitler speeches, right,

824
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: They'll turn on the radio and like sneak it together.

825
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: And again, she is the primary female influence in his

826
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: early childhood. And like, I don't know, I think actually

827
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: honestly reading this, I thought back to how when I

828
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: was a little kid and my mom was out of town,

829
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: my dad and I would watch like South Park, right,

830
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: which I wasn't allowed to watch, but like my dad

831
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: would kind of you know, And that's a powerful thing

832
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, whatever it is for you,

833
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: Like if you've got like an adult in your life,

834
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: who will be like, hey, you know, normally, you know,

835
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: I had to watch you know, horror movies. But let's

836
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: put on Friday the thirteenth or whatever. Just been the

837
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: rest of your life you love fucking you know, horror

838
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: movies or whatever. Like for him, that's Hitler, then that's

839
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: the experience he has. That's like woman who raises him.

840
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: You know, let's get on, let's get what they're talking about.

841
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Adoll Hitler. Now, obviously fascists are bad at estimating risk,

842
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: and Teresa was not careful enough with her attempts to

843
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: propagandaize this kid. Eventually h Sylvester catches them. Quote it

844
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: was bad enough that he would come home on warm

845
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: days to the voice of Joseph Goebbel's booming sonorously from

846
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: the Emerson worst when he found our address was on

847
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: the German embassy mailing list for Nazi propaganda. The Hindenburg, however,

848
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: was the last straw. The problem was that Teresa did

849
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: not accept the official crash explanation, but static electricity ignited

850
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: hydrogen being vinted as part of the landing procedure. She

851
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: was certain the Hindenburg had been sabotaged by the United States.

852
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: This is it, Hindenburgh truth there, that's okay, this is

853
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: so true. That's so wild about this is like this

854
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: is his autobiography. Yes, yes, he's writing all of this out.

855
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: You could, if you wanted to, for instance, attempt to

856
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 2: rehabilitate your image in the nineteen eighties, simply just say,

857
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, I was a sickly child, and I loved

858
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: fucking the rate, I love the radio. But then in

859
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: you know, that could all of everything that you've said

860
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: so far could be two and a half sentences and

861
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: starts wherever the shit that's relevant.

862
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: Yes, well that's kind of why I believe a lot

863
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: of this, right because like there's definitely he lies for

864
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: a number of especially when we get to Watergate. There's

865
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: like a lot of shit that he just like is

866
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: bullshit that he brings up about like John Dene and stuff,

867
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: like a lot of stuff that is not true in

868
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: this that is like legacy making, myth making. But like,

869
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what why of lying the first How

870
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: does this help you?

871
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 3: G Gordon Lyndy, Like the fascists are already on your side. Yeah,

872
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 3: Like so like this may just be yeah, we thought

873
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 3: this would be your This is to try to like

874
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 3: broad in the audience a little bit, get a little

875
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: like you know, some ragged Democrats whatever, No fuck is this.

876
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: This is something unique, something totally unique, and you know

877
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: what else is unique? And sponsors of our podcast, none

878
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: of whom were raised by a Nazi. Well probably probably

879
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: most of whom were not raised by Yeah.

880
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 2: There's some real a list sponsors you could get, though,

881
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: were definitely raised by.

882
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: The Reagan coin. People might have been raised by a Nazi?

883
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: Is that ed Eddie Volkswagon, you know, buyer sponsored this fucker. Sure,

884
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: hopefully Volvo pops in or something. You know, we're back.

885
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: So Sylvester not a perfect dad, right, But his reaction

886
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: to all of this, everything that happens, does kind of

887
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: make me think that he was trying to do the

888
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: best he knew, how because when he when he like

889
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: comes in eventually, he like comes in on like Teresa

890
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: Rantick about how the Hindenburg was an inside job or whatever,

891
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: and he fires, he fires her, and he he eventually

892
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: he brings in a new maid, and he I think,

893
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: because he's so concerned that his son is becoming a Nazi.

894
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: The new maid he picks is a Jewish refugee named

895
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: Sophie who had just escaped Nazi Germany. And I think

896
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: his goal here is both like, give this refugee a

897
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: decent job, and also like, well maybe if my son

898
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: meets this woman who has been victimized by Hitler's reshime,

899
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: it will deradicalize him. I don't know. Again, we can

900
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: argue was that the right call, but I think he's

901
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: trying Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so tough. That's that's a

902
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: wild situation to be a day.

903
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 2: I see what you're trying to do here, but that

904
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 2: could go so yeah, amazingly wrong.

905
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: And Lyddy does not like her. He claims later he

906
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: came to like respect and you know, have empathy for her,

907
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: but he does not write about her very much, so

908
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true. In Hitler, Liddy continued

909
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: to see a totem of strength and icon to emulate

910
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: in purging his body and mind to fear and weakness

911
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: that he felt characterized his childhood. Now. While Liddy was

912
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: falling in love with Hitler, he had a few other

913
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: childhood heroes growing up. Quote frequently ill I was nursed

914
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: patiently by my mother, who used the occasions to teach

915
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 1: me the family history and various tales of personal courage

916
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 1: and accomplishment against odds. To keep from boring me by repetition,

917
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: she would make up stories of high valor, usually about

918
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: American Indians and their warriors ability to resist the most

919
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: horrible tortures without the slightest indication of discomfort. Among her

920
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 1: true story was that of Glenn Cunningham, a farm boy.

921
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 1: His legs were burned so badly he would never walk again,

922
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: and who became our national champion. In the mile of

923
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: family members, my mother's favorite was her older brother Raymond.

924
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: He too was slightly built, but that hadn't stopped him

925
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: from being the leader of all the boys in the neighborhood,

926
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: from fighting off much larger boys who tried to force

927
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: him from the Prime Street corner for selling magazines in Washington,

928
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: d c. From becoming an eagle scout, from putting himself

929
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: through Georgetown University and it's law school. I learned how

930
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: Uncle Ray had been there when John Dillinger was slain

931
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: in Chicago, how he was wounded at the gun battle

932
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: in which mab Barker and her gang were shot or captured,

933
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: and that he hadn't even noticed his wound until aft

934
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: of the battle and had not bothered to report it.

935
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: His Uncle Ray becomes an FBI agent, right, And to

936
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: be clear, there's not actually any evidence that Ray was

937
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: nearby when John Dillinger was killed, but this is probably

938
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: family law rather than Gordon lying. I think he does

939
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: grow up and taught this right. And I think Uncle

940
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: Ray is a giant piece shit and the fabulous too,

941
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: also a terrible influence. But this is so these two

942
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: things are critical to understand. Letty, he grows up like

943
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: afraid constantly, and like you know, just this like kid,

944
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: he's like short, he's small, he feels like he's weak,

945
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: and he's always scared. And his mom is constantly trying

946
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: to build him up by telling him stories about his

947
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: like great grandfather and his grandfather and like how good

948
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: his dad wasn't boxing and his uncle Raymond is killing

949
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: all these people. And this like drives him crazy a

950
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: little bit, right, Like the fact that the fact that

951
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: he feels like he has to become worthy of these

952
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: men who are in his genetic line, and he feels

953
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: like he's so weak and scared all the time. Like this,

954
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: this like fucks him up as a kid, right yeah, Yeah,

955
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: So he grows more and more ashamed of his perfectly

956
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: natural reactions to the world. Now, part of what incites

957
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: this is that he had, by this point read a

958
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: book by America First Leader Charles Lindberg, in which Lindbergh

959
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: discussed that he had picked his wife based on her

960
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: racial characteristics because he wanted them to breed genetic powerful

961
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: children together. So he has this sort of idea in

962
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: his head that like I come from a line of powerful,

963
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: like genetically powerful men, and it's my responsibility to become

964
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: worthy of the genes of my ancestors. Right and right

965
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: now I'm too weak. I'll never be worthy of breeding

966
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: with an Aryan princess if I don't conquer my fear

967
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: of the heroes.

968
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 2: And you know what, to be fair, except for the

969
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 2: Aryan part.

970
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: Listen, why that's why you do half the shit you do,

971
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, to just impress the person you want to fuck. Yeah, yeah,

972
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: well that's fair. In his case, it's like a theoretical person, right, yeah,

973
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: And he has to become worthy of the semen that

974
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: he's inherited from his dad and his uncle. So of

975
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: all the heroes in his childhood, his dad and his

976
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: uncle Ray are the living ones he actually knew. Ray

977
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: again is a short guy, but he's dating a model

978
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: and this model is much taller than him, which g

979
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy finds very attractive. He's always got kind of

980
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: a king for that. And he carried Ray would always,

981
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, when he'd come over to see the family,

982
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: he would like always be wearing a gun and he

983
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: would brag about who he was carrying a thirty eight

984
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: super automatic there was powerful handgun in the world. Lyddy

985
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: repeats it a bunch. This is the most powerful handgun

986
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: in the world. My uncle has got the best gun

987
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 1: in the whole planet. That is a debatable claim handgun wise,

988
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: but I think he probably heard it from Ray and

989
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: repeated it all his life. Gordon grew obsessed with his

990
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: uncle's sight arm, and since this was the nineteen thirties,

991
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: gun safety was not a priority. Quote. One day, when

992
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 1: I was five, I slipped into Ray's room and found

993
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: it lodged in the lid of his suitcase. This was

994
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: a rarity. Not only was it something I feared, so

995
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 1: did everyone else. My curiosity got the better of my fear,

996
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: an uncommon occurrence. Quietly, I withdrew the pistol and examined it,

997
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: then managed to get the hammer back at the safety off.

998
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: Proud of this accomplishment, I walked into the room where

999
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: the adult sat Chadow to show them what I had found.

1000
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: Uncle Ray spotted me immediately he knew the pistol was loaded.

1001
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: Ray's rising He placed himself directly in front of the muzzle,

1002
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: smiled warmly, then reached down and placed his finger between

1003
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 1: the hammer and the firing bin. He grasped the piece

1004
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: and gently disarmed me. This gun, he informed me quietly,

1005
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: was his. He would get one for me soon. Thereafter

1006
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: he did a pistol replica of the colt. So a

1007
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: couple of livings there, Uncle Ray, I think maybe the

1008
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 1: wrong thing to do is to give the kid who

1009
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: has just stolen your gun and pointed it at some

1010
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: adults an exact replica of that pistol. There might be

1011
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: other lessons to teach first, is what I'm saying, right like,

1012
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: don't point guns at the people.

1013
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I guess I don't know the layout

1014
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 2: of this living room either. By I don't feel like

1015
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: Ray had to step right in front of the pistol

1016
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 2: to do this stuff.

1017
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: Feel like he had other options. Yeah, come from the side.

1018
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: Maybe don't leave a loaded and chambered thirty eight Super

1019
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: in your fucking suitcase in your room with kids around. Ray.

1020
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: You never know, Yeah, everyone was so drunk back then,

1021
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: right Like, Yeah, you never know when you're gonna really

1022
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: want to win the argument. No, exactly, you might, you could.

1023
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: You might need that thirty eight Super at any moment. Yeah, So,

1024
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: from what I can it's also very funny to be

1025
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: because like today. Back then, you know, thirty eight Super

1026
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: was one of the more power certainly one of the

1027
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: most powerful handgun rounds that was available to people today.

1028
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: The thing that's most famous for is like Cartel guys

1029
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: love getting nineteen elevens plated in gold and thirty eight Super.

1030
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,439
Speaker 1: That's like the Cartel pistol, right, like if you want

1031
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: to be yeah, Like it's like yeah, So that is

1032
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: kind of amusing to me. All of this nonsense, this

1033
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: like worship of men in his family, his like Hitler shit,

1034
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 1: his constant fear, he he it leads him to have

1035
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: this kind of like obsession with making a reality of

1036
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: my genetic potential. That's the way he describes it, you know, right,

1037
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: He's got to like he's got to fix himself so

1038
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 1: that he can earn his genes. So this starts with

1039
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: his first fear, the Hindenburg and its last runs before

1040
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: the disaster, Lyddy had made his parents take him to

1041
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: watch it so he could stand out underneath it and

1042
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: force himself not to run away. His success in this

1043
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: thrilled him, and it made him commit to conquering other fears.

1044
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: Since he was scared of heights, he started hanging out

1045
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: with a boy he knew who ran around on the

1046
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: rooftops of nearby buildings do what you might call kind

1047
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: of early parkourship. That boy also took Lyddy to the docks,

1048
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: which is this like forbidden place with all these scary

1049
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: foreigners in it. And on one occasion they're snooping around

1050
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: a boat and they get yelled at and they both

1051
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: run away, and Lyddy spends days beating himself up, like

1052
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: he's almost like mortifying his skin because he's so ashamed

1053
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: that he didn't like confront the guy or something instead

1054
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,479
Speaker 1: of running away from this sailor when he's breaking onto

1055
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: a boat. Now, in order to deal with this, he

1056
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: keeps going back to the boat, and his goal is

1057
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: he just wants to hide on it near the saale

1058
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: to prove that he's not scared of them. He conquers

1059
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: this fear, but he earns a new one, which is

1060
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: that there's these giant wharf rats around and one of

1061
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: them like chases him off the boat, and he kind

1062
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: of loses his mind in a panic. And for a

1063
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: year or more, this tears at him, the fact that

1064
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: he's like reacted with fear to these rats. But then

1065
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: About a year later, when he's nine, the family cat

1066
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: brings a dead rat into the house, and I don't

1067
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: really know what to do here other than read you

1068
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: what followed. The carcass was still warm and remarkably undamaged.

1069
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: To demonstrate to myself my lack of fear, instead of

1070
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: using a stick, I picked it up with my hands,

1071
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: then looked for a place to bury it. As I

1072
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: walked towards the trees in the back, I saw some

1073
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: old bricks and got the idea for a test to

1074
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: destroy forever any dread I still might harbor for rats.

1075
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: I put the rat down and with the loose bricks

1076
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: built a small enclosure in the gravel next to the garage.

1077
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: I filled it with broken twigs, bark in small branches,

1078
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: and went into the kitchen for matches. For the next hour,

1079
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: I roasted the dead rat. Then I removed the burned

1080
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: carcass with a stick and let it cool. With a

1081
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: scout knife, I skinned it, then cut off and ate

1082
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: the roasted haunches of the rat meat, this tasteless and stringy. Finally,

1083
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: I dismantled the little fireplace and burned the rest of

1084
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: the carcass. As I stamped down the earth over the

1085
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: remnants of my meal. I spotted the cat Tommy. I

1086
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: smiled as the thought occurred to me. From now on,

1087
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: rats could fear me as they feared cats. After all,

1088
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: I hate them too. Oh my god. If your child

1089
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,479
Speaker 1: has that experience, that's so far beyond serial killer shit.

1090
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: Like serial killer shit is like torturing and animals. It's

1091
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: not doing that. Sania's already dead, but in some ways

1092
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: it's more alien and weird, like I must conquer the

1093
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: rats will fear me if I've eaten them. Yeah, that's

1094
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: what works.

1095
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: That's just so like also like totally cool to never

1096
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 2: tell anyone that story.

1097
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a story you keep to yourself. Andrew's so

1098
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: wild to say this out loud. This is this is

1099
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: the thirties. Your parents are putting you in an institution

1100
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: if you tell them that story. Yeah, I just right.

1101
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: But that's what happens in the thirty that's just early

1102
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: enough in the twentieth century or close enough to the

1103
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: depression that like you might find one or two people

1104
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: that it's like been their brother. Yeah, but not for

1105
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: that reason, right, yes, yes, right, So if you hear

1106
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: the whole thing, he will always be, you know, for

1107
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: the rest of his childhood, obsessive with this need to

1108
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: conquer various fears and prove himself a man. Now, the

1109
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: thing that he wants to ultimately do, the number one way, really,

1110
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: the only thing in his mind that's going to cure

1111
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: him forever of this sort of like inadequacy syndrome he has,

1112
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: is to go to war. Right That's the ultimate way

1113
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: to prove that you're a man and worthy of your

1114
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: genes is killing some people. And luckily for him, World

1115
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: War two, you know, kicks off right around the time

1116
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: he's starting to become, you know, an adolescent. Unfortunately for him,

1117
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: he's like eleven or twelve when the US gets into it,

1118
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: and there's at least like six years he's got a

1119
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: weight before he's going to be able to enlist. His

1120
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: only meaningful feeling about the war then, is not like

1121
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: horror at all the people dying, you know, fear that

1122
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: maybe his country will lose any of that. He's he's terrified.

1123
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: His greatest fear is that he won't have time to

1124
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: fight in it. He won't get to go to war, right, Like,

1125
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: That's that's really what fucks him up. So while he

1126
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: suffers through this torturous weight. He decides the rational thing

1127
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: to do is to prepare himself to be a soldier,

1128
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: and Gordon that meant one thing killing Now later in

1129
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: life he is going to be famous for just absolutely

1130
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: this guy. There's never been a dude who fetishized guns

1131
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: more than G. Gordon Liddy or violence more than G.

1132
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: Gordon LIDDI. But Lyddy is not. He's not naturally a

1133
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: violent person. He's not someone to whom actually carrying out

1134
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: violence is like a thing he's immediately comfortable with, right,

1135
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: and so he's going to have He's going to dedicate,

1136
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: like his adolescent years, to becoming comfortable with carrying out

1137
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: violence for no good reason, right, not like violence he

1138
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: needs to carry out because he's ashamed of the fact

1139
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: that he's like not comfortable killing things. Now. The easiest

1140
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: way in his mind to become comfortable with violence is

1141
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: to get a gun and start shooting animals. But again, Sylvester,

1142
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: his dad understands who his boy is and is like, no,

1143
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: we're not getting you a gun. We are we are

1144
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: absolutely not buying you a gun. You have to think

1145
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: he knew his boy and was like, the last thing

1146
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: this the last thing my Hitler loving child needs is

1147
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: a firearm.

1148
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: I mean, there has to be some real concern when

1149
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 2: this kid really wants to go fight a World War two.

1150
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: Which, yeah, the closest Sylvester will get is buying his

1151
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: kid a Daisy bb gun. And this is also going

1152
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: to prove an error because Liddy's a little too smart

1153
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: for his own good. So he looks up at the

1154
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: library the recipe for black powder and he starts making

1155
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: his own gunpowder. He buys charcoal and sulfur and saltpeter

1156
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: from the pharmacy, claiming his mother needs it for canning.

1157
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: You can use sulfur and saltpeter, you can use for canning.

1158
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: I think the charcoal was probably for the fire. And

1159
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: then from a neighborhood kid, he says he buys a

1160
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: six inch long section of gun barrel and twenty two

1161
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: caliber that included a chamber, right, because you need the

1162
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: chamber in order to make a gun the work. So

1163
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: he saws off the barrel of his Daisy and he

1164
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: attaches the twenty two barrel by friction fit, and then

1165
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: he like basically he builds this into a functioning twenty

1166
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: two caliber rifle using like it's very janky, Like it's

1167
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: got like a plunger fire type situation here, Like it

1168
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: sounds like a very dangerous and inaccurate firearm. But it

1169
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: does function. It has no sight, like you cannot really

1170
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: aim at very well. But he claims he shoots and

1171
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: hits a squirrel with it. Right now, this is pretty

1172
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: fucked up because you shouldn't shoot an animal with a

1173
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: weapon that you can't be precise with right because you may,

1174
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: for example, hid it in the guts and it will

1175
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: die in agonizing death as opposed to dying quick, which

1176
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: is what happens. He shoots the squirrel in the belly,

1177
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: and he has to like kill it, right, He has

1178
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: to like execute it at close range, and he, you know,

1179
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: he doesn't eat the squirrel. He doesn't what you can do.

1180
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: He has like no use for the body. He's just

1181
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: killing it to kill it. So he he executes it

1182
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: and then he cuts off its tail to tie around

1183
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: his handlebars. Now this is definitely like serial killer adjacent shit.

1184
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: Lyddy claims that he doesn't feel excited or happy after

1185
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: doing it. In fact, he's horrified by it, like like

1186
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: it haunts him and like his mom catches him doing

1187
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: it too, so like that's probably part of you know,

1188
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: why he feels bad and this this is what really

1189
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: fucks him up, because the thing that fucks him up

1190
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: is not that he he hurts this squirrel or that

1191
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: he kills it, but that he feels bad about hurting

1192
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: the squirrel, and that fucks him up because he feels like, now,

1193
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: I'll never be able to be a soldier if, like,

1194
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: I can't kill a squirrel without feeling anything, how can

1195
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: I kill men? Right? That has its own internal logic.

1196
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on there, and none of it's

1197
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: any good. How could I expect to be a soldier

1198
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: in the war. I had to do something to free

1199
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: myself from this disabling emotionalism. The widowest fascist here, he

1200
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: is such a fucking like the deepest fascist. There's more

1201
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: like fucking young Hitler has more like redeeming quality, says

1202
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: a kid, than fucking g Gordon Lyddy. Oh god, it's

1203
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: fucked up, so man. The thing he eventually lands on

1204
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: was volunteering to help with his neighbor's small chicken farm.

1205
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: He offers to basically, yeah, he's got this neighbor with

1206
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: a chicken farm, and he's like, look, I need to

1207
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: learn how to kill all, like gut and kill all

1208
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: of the chickens that you need killed. And you know,

1209
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: if you've never done this, killing butchering chickens and specifically

1210
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: like gutting and preparing them to be eaten is a

1211
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: very it's a particularly unpleasant process. Like chickens in my

1212
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: in and a lot of people's opinions are like a

1213
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: less pleasant animal to like butcher than a lot of

1214
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 1: other animals. So the guy who owns this farm is like, yeah, sure, Gordon,

1215
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: you could fucking kill all of my chickens. And so

1216
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: that's like again bad adulting. Also this if this kid

1217
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: comes to you being like I need to kill something,

1218
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: Can I kill you? I have to learn how to

1219
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: kill efficiently and without emotion or thought. Right, that's how

1220
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 1: he phrases it. So apparently he claims he learns how

1221
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: to kill without feeling that by murdering all of these chickens,

1222
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, I was satisfied. When it came my turn

1223
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: to go to war, I would be ready. And like

1224
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: I should note here, giguldn't Liddy never killed anybody, right,

1225
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: not for lack of trying, but like I honestly don't

1226
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: know if he ever, like was the kind of guy

1227
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: who would have been good at this. So much of

1228
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: this is like he's got this is like an image

1229
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: he wants to present. He wants people to think of

1230
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,439
Speaker 1: him as a badass, as a killer, as a dangerous man, right,

1231
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, as this guy who could do without thinking, Like,

1232
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: I don't think killing chickens actually prepared him for murdering people.

1233
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: Part of which is that, like I don't, he never

1234
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: kills anybody, right, He's never in combat, He never experiences

1235
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: anything like this, you know.

1236
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: I mean part of the part of the wa to

1237
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 2: be dispassionate killer issue is thinking that working in this

1238
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 2: slaughterhouse might help you become a dispassionate killer.

1239
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 1: Nope, absolutely not, is it. Like, Yeah, there's there's a

1240
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: lot here, including the fact that like Adolf Hitler, a

1241
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: fucking man with a lot of blood on his hands,

1242
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: never could have worked at a chicken slaughtering like he was.

1243
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: He was too Like again, the dude was a vegetarian.

1244
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: He was like horrified by the suffering of animals, didn't

1245
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: care about people suffering, you know. But yeah, just a

1246
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: dangerous maniac. G Gordon Liddie, one of the one of

1247
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: the least one of the least mentally uh uh healthy individuals,

1248
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous brains ever to be born.

1249
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, to be given power, Yeah, of any kind, Jesus Christ.

1250
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 1: This is a man who needed like dedicated care right

1251
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: of some sort. He needed a lot of people focused

1252
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: on stopping him from being a danger to him, mitigating

1253
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: mitigating his risk to others. Yeah if and yeah that

1254
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: that that never happened. So Jesus, we are building to

1255
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: how he masterminds the Watergate break in badly. Again. This

1256
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: is a man who is bad at everything but being

1257
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: a media guy. Right, He's pretty effect of it, being

1258
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: like a right wing media figure. He's a terrible failure

1259
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: at every other aspect of his life pretty much. Some

1260
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: people say he was a pretty good lawyer, you know,

1261
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: so maybe I'll give him that. We'll talk about that too,

1262
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,799
Speaker 1: So we'll find out. Right now, Andrew, let's talk about

1263
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 1: how are you doing. I'm you know, I'm alive. We're

1264
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: just uh, you know, still just striking and hanging out

1265
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: and podcast. It's great. Love it. I don't love it,

1266
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: but it's just you know, what are you gonna do? Excellent. Well,

1267
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: support the strike, you know, help out. Oh yes, I

1268
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: pulled up.

1269
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: A link if you are listening to this and you

1270
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 2: are some the entertainment community fund to search for that,

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01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 2: I don't know whatever, ask chat GPT to find it

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01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 2: for you don't do that. And yeah, and I do

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Speaker 2: a podcast called you know as this racist we are.

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Speaker 1: We're doing some picket line diaries just to do uh

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01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: you know what the actual uh sandals on the ground

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01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: of being on strike is like. So, yeah, that's it.

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01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, check out those picket diaries. And until next time, folks,

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01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: remember David Zaslov's home addresses. Oh you probably we'll probably

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01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: bleep that. Not the first time we've had to bleep

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Speaker 1: that uns Yeah, good stuff. Behind the Bastards is a

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01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,679
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media,

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01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,640
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us

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01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,560
Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:42,520
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.