1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you, 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: want you to know. If you are watching this on video, 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: please paid no attention to the skeleton slowly getting closer 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: and closer to the camera on my end. We've decided 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: to just let that one ride. Surely nothing weird will happen. 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: But speaking weird things, today's question are you one of 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: the people who's heard an inexplicable bump in the night. 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: Have you felt a sharp thump or a pinch against 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: your back, only to turn around and find the room 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: behind you is empty? For people who believe in ghost 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: or for any fan of horror movies in general, today's 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: subject will be familiar. We are exploring the concept known 20 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: as the poulter Geist. So here are the facts. For 21 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: a lot of us in the West The term Poultergeist 22 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: is most often associated with a fictional film with the 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: same name, poulter Geist. In that film, there's a normal, 24 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: everyday family in California with the unfortunate surname of Freeling. 25 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: The Freeling family. They've right, it's I don't know, it's 26 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: a good script, but they fall victim to a malevolent 27 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: spirit or spirits that, at first seeing playful and friendly. 28 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: They communicate with the kids through a television screen, but eventually, 29 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: of course, they turned sinister. The youngest daughter of the 30 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: household disappears. This prompts her parents increasingly desperate to seek 31 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: help from a parapsychologist and an exorcist. And you know, 32 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: without debating whether or not Poultergeist is a horror film 33 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: instead of a horror themed family film, it's only rated PG. 34 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: By the way, we can say this is this is 35 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: probably Uh. One of the things that people most associate 36 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: the idea of poulter geist activity with, wasn't it wasn't 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: there a line about a poulter Geist in the first 38 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: Ghostbusters movie. That doesn't he equate one of the one 39 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: of the the ghost sightings to being a poltergeist. Yeah, 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: that's correct. Uh, and we also see poulter geist activity 41 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: in Ghostbusters. We see remember in the library, books are 42 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: flying off the shelves, right, So that's a that's a 43 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: hallmark of what is often for trade as poultergeist activity. 44 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: It's weird because collectively all this stuff we call poulter 45 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: geist activity is a real thing in that there are 46 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: numerous cases of purported activity throughout history. So there are 47 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: real reports. The question is what exactly are people reporting? Yeah, exactly. 48 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, Poltergeist Too is the one that 49 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: gave me nightmares as a kid. So if you're in 50 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: the mood for a movie that might actually scare you, 51 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: I'd recommend that one. I'll tell you what gave me nightmare. 52 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: Is that lady with the really creepy little baby voice. 53 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: Was she the exorcist through the parapsychologist? I care? This 54 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: house is very Yeah, I I think she's probably one 55 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: of the most captivating parts of that. And Matt's Poltergeist 56 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: to the is that the one with the scene of 57 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: the evil animated braces, that's I believe, maybe I'm in act, 58 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: I believe that's the one. And the one with the 59 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: meat there's like some scene with meat that I remember 60 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: watching in my cousin's house, and from then on it 61 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: was it was overly. I couldn't look at steak the 62 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: same way. I have a real soft spot in my 63 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: heart for stop motion meat. There's a great stop motion 64 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: meat scene in that Peter Jackson movie Dead Alive U 65 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: also known as brain Dead. There's like a piece of 66 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: meat that's like kind of an adorable. There's a part 67 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: where it's looking at itself in the mirror and like preening, like, oh, 68 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: look at me, I'm a beautiful piece of meat. And 69 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: then there's also obviously the films of Jans vank Meyer. 70 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: He animates meat a lot as well, so I actually 71 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: find that stuff delightful. I haven't seen part too, Tho'll 72 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: have to check it out. I just remember the creepy 73 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: clown from one we have we have speaking of meat, 74 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: we have an artist in our audience who does these 75 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: like photo realistic paintings of meat. I've got to actually 76 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: I have one of those hanging up in the house. 77 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: I'll put it up here when I get this set together. 78 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: But with with Boulder, guys, I think we can agree. 79 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: One of the other really compelling characters is the villain. 80 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: No spoilers, but he's he's he's a really creepy guy 81 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: who walks. I remember being a kid and and uh 82 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: really catching his vibe when he goes to the doors 83 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: of houses and he's like, uh, whale doom. Uh they're 84 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: well doom. You guys may remember that. But they didn't 85 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: make up. The point of this is they didn't make 86 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: up all the stuff that happens just in a brainstorming 87 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: session in the writer's room. They were taking accounts of 88 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: things that have been reported as real life events, and 89 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: they didn't make up The word Poultergeist either. It comes 90 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: from the German language. It's a it's a combination of 91 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: two words poultern making sound to rumble and geist ghost 92 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: or spirit. So it's not a huge plot twist that 93 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: we would call a noisy spirit of poulter geist, especially 94 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: if we were German. The phrase does go back a 95 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: long time, right, eight hundreds, I believe in Germany eighteen 96 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: eight something around then. But but it's not just Germany, 97 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: that that wasn't the only place. Just because they came 98 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: up with the name doesn't mean they're the only ones 99 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: experiencing something like this. In a lot of places. There 100 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: are other invisible entities that aren't necessarily spirits or ghosts, 101 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: that have the power to in some way manifest in 102 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: the corporeal world, move things, push, people, interact with us 103 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: and objects. Um it really there there's a wealth of 104 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: historical tales, even if it's even if they're not true, 105 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: or perhaps you don't believe that they're true stories. There 106 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: are so many tales throughout time about this kind of activity. Yeah, 107 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: collectively known as ghost lore instead of folklore sometimes, which 108 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: I think is just chef's kiss. So it's your point, Matt. 109 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: There might be cases in merry Old England that were 110 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: blamed on a bog Art instead of a aulter Geist, 111 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: but if you look at what's happening or what's being 112 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: reported to have happened, the activities are very much the same. 113 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: That means that a lot of people throughout time and 114 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: throughout the geography of the world have been reporting similar 115 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: things under a different name. So the term poulter Geist 116 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: is an umbrella label that we're using to describe any 117 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: number of things, and for the true believers, a poulter 118 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: geist can be best understood as sort of a genre 119 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: of a ghost, a type of entity or spirit, or 120 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: it can also be understood as just that set of 121 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: activities or abilities attributed to these kinds of things. I mean, 122 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: if you wanted to assign like a personality to a 123 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: poulter Geist, it's kind of the gremlin of the ghost world, right, 124 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, it's activities can range from 125 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: the mischievous, like we said in poulter Geist the movie, 126 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: where it's like stacking chairs or you know, making books 127 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: flutter around like in the Ghostbusters, or a little bit 128 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: more devious, but they're not your exercis level demonic uh power, 129 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They tend to be a 130 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: little more innocuous, but when we have examples where things 131 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: go a little further than that. So it is a genre, 132 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: like you said, kind of a wide swath of ghostly attributes. Yeah, 133 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: and we did talk about how generally, whatever this entity 134 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: is purported to be, it is invisible to most observers, 135 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: if not all observers. It's just it's it's either invisible 136 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: or mostly invisible. And you might hear it speak in 137 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: some cases, usually just say some like cryptic, epic threatening stuff. 138 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: Very rarely to say like hey, sorry, I didn't know 139 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: that was the good China that I busted. But we 140 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: see in the cases where we see polter guys specifically 141 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: portrayed or described as entities, we also see several common threads. First, 142 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: the big one, the one we've already talked about a 143 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: little bit, the movement of object X by some undetermined means. 144 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: Cutlery flying through the air, yeah, falling out of the hutch, 145 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: furniture being overturned, books zoom and off shelves, mirrors, cracking windows, 146 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: doors slamming open then shuts. Psychokinesis maybe, but the best 147 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: way to describe it right now in the episode is 148 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: movement of objects by undetermined means. That's the first thread, 149 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: But there are two other really big ones, right, I mean, 150 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: we often see these events centered around a person, a 151 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: haunted individual that is being visited by this uh, you know, 152 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: somewhat malevolent spirit um And often, but not always, it's 153 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: an adolescent girl, which is interesting. Yeah, and we'll probably 154 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: talk about this later in the episode. But the concept 155 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: of puberty and in the female body specifically, yeah, appears 156 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: to be something that has been looked at before, like 157 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: through actual scientific means. It feels a little sketchy, but well, 158 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: we'll talk about it a little later. It's dodgy for sure, 159 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: and that's that's part of our exploration today. Hinges on 160 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: that aspect because it is relatively unusual in the world 161 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: of ghost lure to have a specific person being haunted 162 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: fitting that like, because of that demographic there's a question 163 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: of causation that's tremendously important. The third big thread in 164 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: this ghost lare is that the Poultergeist usually isn't just 165 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: messing around. It has an aim, a motivation, a cause. 166 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: In the fictional film poulter Geist promised last time, Last time, 167 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: we'll bring it up. The the antagonistic spirit, the oh 168 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: They're welcome, Oh They're welcome, character wants to kidnap the 169 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: youngest daughter of the again unfortunately named Freeling family because 170 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: it will be able to gain power by consuming her light. 171 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: And this is heavily implied to be something innate to her, 172 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: possibly at this time in her life, although she's younger, 173 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: she's like eight years old. Uh, It's it's heavily implied 174 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: that it might also be like some kind of shining 175 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: esque nascent psychic powers. There's something special about her. But 176 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: with those three common threats, with the idea of telekinesis, 177 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: psychokinesis or moving objects, the idea of a certain type 178 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 1: of person being haunted, the idea of the ghost or 179 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: spirit or entity having an aim. We can see examples 180 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: of Poultergeist, or i should say, examples of poulter Geist 181 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: stories reported as fact throughout history, and like we could you, 182 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: there is probably a podcast that examines each one of 183 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: these in the in the Cannon, and that podcast could 184 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: be entirely dedicated to it. But we wanted to give 185 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: you a few examples of polter geist stories. Some you 186 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: may have heard of before, some you may have not. 187 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: That's great, and we can start out with hunting a 188 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: purported haunting that occurred in Tennessee. It's known as the 189 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: Bell Witch of Tennessee. Mm hmm. Now it's it's quite old. 190 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: It's quite a bit older than a lot of the 191 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: ones will be talking about. This one originates in the 192 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, between eighteen seventeen and eighteen twenty one. And 193 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: here's the gist of the story. There's a family there 194 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: in Tennessee. The father or the head of the household, 195 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: his name is John Bell, Sr. And the entire house, 196 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: everybody living in it begins to experience strange stuff. There's 197 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: some entity that they think is an entity at least 198 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: DA has the ability to speak to them, like directly 199 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: to them while they're in the house. That is not 200 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: a member of the family, just somebody else, some disjointed 201 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: voice that talks to them. And it's also able to 202 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: do things that we've described earlier in a lot of 203 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: these commonalities. It's moving things, it's throwing things, it's able 204 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: to affect the physical environment, and it's able to they think, 205 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: shape shift into other things that they will then see 206 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: maybe around the house, um, maybe even within the house. 207 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: But they are attributing all of these sightings to the 208 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: same one thing, the same entity. Yeah, and and this 209 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: this story is one of the most famous accounts of 210 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: poltergeist activity in the US. You have probably heard something 211 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: about it. You've probably also, perhaps unknowingly seen some piece 212 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: of fiction based on this. The verdict here organize these 213 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: by time place, just verdict. So so the verdict here 214 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: is that there is a huge problem with any research 215 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: into this story. The huge problem is this the first 216 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: printed account, called The Authenticated History of the Bell, which 217 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: was published in eight that's seventy five years after these 218 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: events occurred. And for this reason, the authenticated history of 219 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: the Bell, which is often treated as a work of 220 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: historical fiction, our modern understanding of whatever the facts maybe, 221 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: is inevitably tainted by all the embellishments that occurred, uh, 222 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, in the almost centuries worth of time before 223 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: something happened and after it got written about, and not 224 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: I mean taking account all the embellishments that have occurred 225 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: since it was published and two thousand twenty, because there 226 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: are videos you can find videos online right now, pretty 227 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: recent videos that claim a lot of things about the 228 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: Bell Wish. And there's an important part of time here too. 229 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: When we talked about our observe aations, you'll notice that 230 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: there there's a a sort of glory days of Poltergeist reporting, 231 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: and it drops off around the time that we entered 232 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: into the glory days of the technological revolution. So our 233 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: when we hear stories about the belt Witch, even if 234 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: we go to the closest primary source we can find, 235 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: we're still almost a century away from what happened. So 236 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: it's it's just very difficult to know what is true 237 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: what is not. So that's that's one example, and we're 238 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: not saying nothing weird happened. We're saying it is almost 239 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: impossible to figure out out of the things that are reported, 240 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: which are factual, in which are later rumors. People added 241 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: because it made him sound cool at the general store 242 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: or at the local Saluon Next, we have what's collectively 243 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: referred to as the Great Amherst Mystery that took place 244 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: in Nova Scotia, Canada. As another Canadian, pretty famous Canadian 245 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: um uh poulter geist story called the chill Whack poulter Geist. 246 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: I only say that because I did a podcast about 247 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: this part of Canada once and I pronounced it chili 248 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: whack and I got yelled at, so chill whack. This one, though, 249 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: is in Nova Scotia, Canada, that took place between eighteen 250 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: seventy eight and eighteen seventy nine. Um and eighteen year 251 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: old female by the name of Esther Cox lived with 252 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: her sister's family and was the victim of an attempted 253 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: sexual assault. Shortly after that took place, there came a 254 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: series of Knox bangs, Russells and all sorts of other again, 255 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: like these noises that are associated the whole idea of 256 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: the ghost. What is it? The the noisy ghost or 257 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: the ghost clang, as the name translates to in German. 258 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: These noises were plaguing the household, keeping people up all night. 259 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: Esther started having seizures. Parts of her bodies would swell um, 260 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: and this is kind of the escalation we're talking about. 261 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: She was simultaneously feverish and then would get chills various 262 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: different times, and objects in the house would appear to 263 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: fly around of their own volition. And visitors came over 264 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: the next few months. Um. They left with the pretty 265 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: serious impression that this was actually happening, that there was 266 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: a poulter geist, a worker. This would have been a 267 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: phenomenon that would have been familiar to folks in those 268 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: days because of that lore and things like the bell 269 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: Witch and a lot of contemporaneous investigators believe this to 270 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: be a series of supernatural events, but there are later 271 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: things in the chronology that proved this might not be 272 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: the case entirely. For a time, Esther Cox fell ill 273 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: with diph theory a and which she was confined to 274 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: her bed for about two weeks. I believe the activities 275 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: ceased entirely. This is one of the reasons that later 276 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: investigators like Walter f Prince in nineteen nineteen built a 277 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: pretty compelling case for trickery on the part of Esther Cox. 278 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: However he was He was quick to say he thought 279 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: this occurred while in a disassociative state, so that would 280 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: mean that Cox herself was not like actively trying to 281 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: make things worse. And she got locked up for arson 282 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: later in life. She only served one month out of 283 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: four and when she came back after that month in prison, 284 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: the events ceased entirely. She got married twice, she lived 285 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: a normal life until passing away at the age of 286 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: fifty two. So there are weird things that happened in 287 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: her life that uh seemed to coincide with drop offs 288 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: in the ghost activity. There was also not activity during 289 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: that month she was in prison. If you blast a 290 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: little bit later in history seven, you've got another one 291 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: that that has some similar hallmarks. In a lawyer's office 292 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: in Rosenheim, Germany, there were a very similar series of 293 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: occurrences that revolved around a nineteen year old secretary named 294 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: Anne Marie Shobbery. Things like lights flickering and paintings, you know, 295 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: going crooked and falling off the walls and um, you know, 296 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: when the fluorescent tubes were unscrewed, there would be like 297 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: massive arcs, electrical spikes and furniture moving things like that. 298 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: And it was investigated, and they called in physicists and 299 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: parapsychologist by the name of Hans bender Um, and he 300 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: investigated and couldn't figure it out. But it was kind 301 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: of believed pretty widely that this was a hoax. There 302 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: were apparently hidden nylon threads found Um and Uh, And 303 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: similar to to the previous story ben Uh, the incidents 304 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: stopped when this Uh, the secretary left, the employee of 305 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: the firm in ight. It's weird because if you believe 306 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: that something is actually happening, the leaving of somebody or 307 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: the removing of someone from a situation may make you 308 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: believe or may make you think that the haunting is 309 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: attached to that person. So when they leave, no more haunting. Yeah, 310 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,239 Speaker 1: but the poultry haunts a person, not a place, right, 311 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: That's one of the assumption. But if your skeptical, well, 312 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: obviously it stopped when that person is gone, similar to 313 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: a crime being committed or something like a serial killer 314 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: being caught. Once you put away that person, there's no 315 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: more killings. It is problematic though, because you know, a 316 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: lot of the kind of debunking of these things revolve around, 317 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: you know what, kids like attention and kids like to 318 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, maybe some with a little bit more of 319 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: a sociopathic desire for attention could possibly go to some 320 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: great length to say look at me, you know, and 321 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: get that that desired attention. And so but it's interesting 322 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: because because it's a revolver under person, when that person leaves, 323 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: it goes away, and so you it's very easy to 324 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: kind of like get those things mashed up together, you know, 325 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: which which is it? Well? And there's also oh, there's 326 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: something to talk about here about the length of time 327 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: of a hunting how long something actually lasts, because we've 328 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: seen here already and when we've been talking about that 329 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: these can go on for years or in the case 330 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: of the the events that Noel you already mentioned here earlier, 331 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: the Chiliack poltergeist in Canada, it only went on for 332 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: I think two months, right, And that's another thing that's 333 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: associated with these polter geist occurrences. They're typically pretty short. 334 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: Uh They're not years. They're usually you know, three or 335 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: four months, maybe five months max, which still seems like 336 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: an awful long time to be tortured by a restless spirit. 337 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, this was from I think two months between 338 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: fifty one and fifty two, and it's just the same 339 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, loud sounds, bangings on the wall, uh, 340 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: flying objects from the like. And then there's another case 341 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: around the same time, the Brother Dolly case where you 342 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: had stains, which is a new one, uh, carvings of 343 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: images and words in well language, um of a religious 344 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: nature to your point, been of that cryptic, kind of 345 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: vaguely religious language. And this one took place for multiple years. Yeah. Yeah, 346 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: So these commonalities should not be considered um hard constraints. 347 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: They're always going to be things that occur on the edges. Again, 348 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: there are many examples. One thing I love about them 349 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: is they're odd, fascinating names. The marketing is wonderful. You've 350 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: got the Drummer of Tedworth, the Black Monk of pontre Fract, 351 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: and the Seaford poulter Geist and so on and so on. 352 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: But I want to I want to explore that one 353 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: common thread that I was saving until now, which is 354 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: simply put kids crave attention. So many parents in our 355 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: audience today likely recognized this idea. Kids want attention, right, 356 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll do weird things. Sometimes they'll do things they 357 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: know they're not supposed to do. Sometimes they'll do pranks, 358 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: even inappropriate behavior, to get some eyes on. Just so 359 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: you know, my my son. While we were recording this 360 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: has been has he's coming like three times. You probably 361 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: haven't seen it or heard it, hopefully because Paul is 362 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: doing his job very very well. But by like the 363 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: Ben and Nol have probably seen him come in and 364 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: I'm having to mute and look at him. And it's 365 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: just because he needs attention right now and he knows 366 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: that I'm doing anything and he's great at it though, 367 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: like he's he's he's a charge, he's an attention ninja. 368 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: I love it. Also earlier though, like there was like 369 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: this very ghostly plaintiff little piano line wafting in the background. 370 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, what is what is this ghostly piano? Like 371 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: that's that's that's the boy. Well Dad's recording, damn ye. 372 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: I think I think he plays piano pretty well. It 373 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: was awesome nine inch nails or something. It was super spooky. 374 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: So this idea, right, which is something clearly we in 375 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: the show can identify with and clearly something you listening 376 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: can identify with this. This is a common thing, and 377 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: it's part of the reason that more skeptical investigators, people 378 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: like Joe Nicol with two Else, will argue that Poultergeist 379 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: activities are typically caused by what he describes as an 380 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: individual motivated to cause mischief. So there is someone haunting 381 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: the house and throwing things, and they do have a mission, 382 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: and there just happened to be human rather than other 383 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: world he said. He notes that, um, this is something Matt, 384 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: you and I were talking about off air. He notes 385 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: that a lot of these seemingly telekinetic events when you 386 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: look at the facts of the case, the placement of 387 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: the people and the things, a lot of these things 388 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: are events that could easily be accomplished by a kid 389 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: who's out to like plague. There's somewhat gullible parents, and 390 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: then of course when things are told and retold and embellished, uh, 391 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: maybe maybe there's some parents or people in authority who 392 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: don't want to say, Well, it turned out my nine 393 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: year old had figured out like a pretty clever way 394 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: to spook the ship out of me by knocking on, 395 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, the upstairs bathroom floor at three in the 396 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: morning and then we so instead I'm going to embellish it, 397 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say, you know, it went away when 398 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: I prayed, not when my kid went back to you know, 399 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: their grandparents for the summer. And and that's how you 400 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: end up with strange stories of like Andrew Jackson visiting 401 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: the bell Witch before he became president. It's a great yard, 402 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: it's also completely untrue. So that's why we we see 403 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: this idea unless less anybody think that we're being discriminatory 404 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: against children. They were obviously awesome. We have to note 405 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: that in numerous cases, numerous, numerous, numerous cases, competent investigators 406 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: found activity activities purported to be poltergeist provably hoax is 407 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: perpetrated by children, such as the famous fox Sters, and 408 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: proving the thing is, proving that those things were hoaxes 409 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: did nothing to uh stem the popularity of the story 410 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: of people loved it. People. People don't want the truth. 411 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: People want a cool story. People want like something that 412 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: captivates their imagination. The truth is always way less interesting. 413 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: You know. It makes me think some of these parents 414 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: probably deserved it. They were probably awful parents, and they 415 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: needed to have a good lesson taught to him, like 416 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: in Matilda where she like you know, gradually files off 417 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: the bottom of her father's shoes or something like that 418 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: to make him think he's getting shorter, or hems his pants, 419 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: does something weird like that, but super covertly and over 420 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: a long period of time to make him think he's 421 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: losing his mind. Uh that you know, and they were 422 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: horrible parents. I mean, I know it's just a story, 423 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: but you know that stuff holds true. Yeah. The reality 424 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: is it appears that in several of these cases there's 425 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: there has been something terrible going on or the one 426 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: we just the one we just mentioned, um the commerce, Yeah, 427 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: I mean sexual salt was involved and there was trauma 428 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: and there was a need for something, right, but that 429 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: she needed something it appears that way at least, and 430 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: it was probably attention and care and you know, it appeared. 431 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: There are several that we've looked at. One of them 432 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: that occurs in Ohio, I think Columbus, Ohio that we 433 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: can talk about maybe a little later, where there's the 434 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: same kinds of thing happening there. There's somebody who is 435 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: in great need, who is a child who um is 436 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: looking for something that maybe they're not getting. I deeply 437 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: appreciate that point because it's something we had explored in 438 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: our earlier look at exorcism, specifically non Western exorcism. There 439 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: are socio political factors inherent in this because all people 440 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: are intelligent, even children, or have the potential to be. So. Yeah, 441 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: children are terrifyingly intelligent. They're brilliant. Uh until about puberty, 442 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: I guess. But we we see people who are traditionally 443 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: left voiceless through one avenue or another in society finding 444 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: innovative ways to make their voices heard. So it shouldn't 445 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: be surprising that children who are often not listened to 446 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: will do their level best to be heard. And just 447 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: like in the case with um Non, a lot of 448 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: non Western exorcisms, many of the possess are themselves children, 449 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: or they are people identifying as women who are in 450 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: societies that oppress women. So now it's not me voicing 451 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: a problem, says the possessed or the haunted. Now it 452 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: is another entity, a powerful one one that society must 453 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: pay heed to. There's a very interesting sociological argument there. 454 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: But what gives you might be saying, are you all 455 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: out here to ruin my Wednesday or Friday by telling 456 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: me that all Poulter geists are hoaxes. Are they just 457 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: misunderstandings of mundane phenomenon? Could there be any real, provable 458 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: sand to at least some of the stories. I hope not. 459 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. 460 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So, I mean, you know, 461 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: we've we've been through. We've spent the first part of 462 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: this episode kind of debunking as we go a little bit. 463 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: And indeed, there are hoaxes of plenty in the world 464 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: of Poulter guys, just like there are in the world 465 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: of psychics and mediums, and all of those a lot 466 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: of pageantry involved. Um, I'm fascinated by the angle of 467 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: children being kind of forgotten and mistreated and using this 468 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: kind of behavior as a way of acting out or 469 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: or you know, giving themselves a voice. But while the 470 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: vast majority of the events paranormal researchers tout as solid 471 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: proof of alter geists are often pretty readily dismissed by 472 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: academics and skeptics, science does have some interesting ideas about 473 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: what might actually be happening to folks who would be 474 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: unfortunate enough to be actual victims of some sort of 475 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: antagonistic supernatural force. So polter geist as a natural phenomenon 476 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: um is super unsettling. Uh. Is it a figment of 477 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: the mind or something more? Yeah, it's no secret that 478 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: scientists have for a long time. Uh. If we want 479 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: to be polite, we will say scientists have for a 480 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: long time suspected the ghosts are an illusion or they're 481 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,959 Speaker 1: a a cultural lens through which we interpret other events. 482 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: There are a series of sensations may be created in 483 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: the mind of us as observers. This is compounded by 484 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: the fact that patients who suffer from specific types of 485 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: neurological or psychological conditions often have reported strange presences around them, 486 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: hearing voices right from no discernible source. This is not 487 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: just something that happens through the lens of mental illness 488 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: as we now understand it. This is also probably neurology 489 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: probably plays a huge part in the role of historical prophets, 490 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: fissionaries and saints and so on. But dismissing every alleged 491 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: case of apoulter geist haunting as the product of an 492 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: unsound mind doesn't give due diligence to the events themselves. 493 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: We never want to be that jerk in any horror 494 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: movie or story who says it's only the wind and 495 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: someone's like, I'm bleeding out of my eyes, that that's 496 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: that's the wind. It just it looks like blood because 497 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: it's in your eyes. We don't want to be those people, Yeah, 498 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: we we don't. And we also don't want to be 499 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: those people that. You know, I believe that because someone 500 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: is experienced something like that that I don't know. I 501 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: I have problems with thinking about it as an unsound mind, right. 502 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: I do wonder sometimes if there is something more to 503 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: that connection beyond you know, to maybe um seeing someone 504 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: or hearing the voice of amuse or someone like that 505 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: that isn't truly there. Um. I wonder if we would 506 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: say it's an unsounded mind because it's not a nominally 507 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: functioning mind, right, it doesn't that person doesn't experience that 508 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: the the world the way that many of us do. 509 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: I think there's I think there is, uh, there's something 510 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: special to that experience. Yeah, there's a I mean there's 511 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: a profound link, isn't there. We we don't understand the 512 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 1: brain fully, we don't really understand the creative process not uh. 513 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: And we also I don't know. I I agree. I 514 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: think it is dismissive to immediately it's the same thing 515 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: is saying you're crazy, and honestly, honestly, the way we 516 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: use normal for most conversational descriptions of this stuff that's 517 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: border borderline ridiculous. Normalcy in that sense is a myth 518 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: and never really existed. It's as made up as some 519 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: of the more skeptical folks might think. Go star. But 520 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: the point of this is to your to what you're saying, Matt. 521 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: If we dismiss any kind of description like this automatically 522 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: as the product of a quote unquote unsound mind, then 523 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: we are not exercising critical thinking, and we are not 524 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: conducting good science, and maybe more importantly, we're not helping 525 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: a person who is convinced that something is making their 526 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: life horrific. So we have to look at the studies, 527 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: and luckily there are studies about this. There's one really 528 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: interesting one we found that that happened because some people 529 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: in Switzerland got together and they wanted to see whether 530 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: they could recreate the experience of being physically touched by 531 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: a ghost. Not only whether they could recreate it, but 532 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: whether they could provably reproduce it multiple times. And the 533 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: crazy thing is they did Yeah, I mean, I believe 534 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: that that two of the volunteers got so freaked out 535 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: that they like pieced out and or like I'm done, 536 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: We're done with this. UM. And it's really interesting the 537 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: way they set up this experiment. They actually used robotics 538 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: UM and they allowed twelve volunteers to control the movement 539 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: of this like jointed robot arm using their index fingers. Uh. 540 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: And the first volunt set of volunteers were blindfolded and 541 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: those moment movements rather were relayed to another robotic arm 542 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: which would touch the volunteers back. I'm assuming it was. 543 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it would be in pure darkness since 544 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: they're blindfolded. UM. When both the finger pushing and the 545 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: back touching occurred at the same time, it created a 546 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: compelling illusion. I'm trying to picture this, so it's another 547 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: individual touching the device and then it's sinking up with 548 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,479 Speaker 1: another device. I'm a little bit Yeah, good, I'll paint 549 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: a picture for you. Imagine you're standing in a room, 550 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: you got your blindfold on right in front of you, 551 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: where like at arms reach, there is a device that 552 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: you can control right here right doing it. Right immediately 553 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: behind you, there is a robot that's on a shelf 554 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: and it's got an arm that can extend out and 555 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: come back. And all you're doing is manipulating what's in 556 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: front of you. And then, in real time, the way 557 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: you would with a video game controller, that robot is 558 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: touching your back as you are telling it to touch 559 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: your back. They are not aware of this robotic arm 560 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: at the back though, yeah, exactly. They just thought they 561 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: were manipulating this thing in front of them. So when 562 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: it was working like that in real time, um, it 563 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 1: gave this the volunteers the sensation that they were touching 564 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: their own backs somehow because it was in sync. But 565 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: the weird stuff occurs when they gave the the pushing 566 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: of the button and then the actual action of touching 567 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: the back. They gave it a delay of about five 568 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: hundred milliseconds, very slight delay, right, uh, just ever so 569 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: slightly off, just a little bit of kind of a tactile, 570 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: uncanny valley vibe, that is how I would describe it. 571 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: And so when this happened, suddenly the volunteers did not 572 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: feel this like I'm unsettlingly touched, touching my own back. 573 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: Somehow they felt that they were being touched by something else, 574 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: something inhuman, by ghostly presence. And then they also, additionally, 575 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: again just because of that delay, had the feeling that 576 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: they were being watched. They reported that they had they 577 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: felt as though they were drifting backwards towards this unseen 578 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: ghostly hand, which means their appropri reception, your sense of 579 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: your body and space was being fundamentally influenced. And then 580 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: they also reported, on average, the strong sensation of two 581 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: invisible presences standing very very very very very very very 582 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: close to them, like when you you know, how if 583 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: you put your hand close enough to the skin of 584 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: someone with a fever, you can feel the warmth, right, 585 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: so something like that, And several volunteers reported up to 586 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: four presences. So a five millisecond delay made them think 587 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: there was a gang of ghosts that was just sort 588 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: of tapping them until, you know, doing whatever their robot 589 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: hand was instructed to do. And two volunteers got to 590 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: use the scientific term severely freaked out. It harsh, harsh 591 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: their mellow, you know, and they refused to continue the experiment. 592 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: So the report argues that these sensations, these things we 593 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: call ghosts do not haunt the waking world. Instead, they 594 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: haunt our brain. Now that makes sense, And I mean honestly, like, 595 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: as you were walking through these descriptions and I'm kind 596 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: of closing my eyes and trying to picture this, I 597 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: kind of started freaking myself out a little bit because 598 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: it is a very strange, disfluent sensation to like be think, 599 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: think you're in control of something. And then introduced that 600 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: lag and introduced that other element where yeah, I could 601 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: see how like if I was facing forward and I'm 602 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: touching something that's in front of me, and then all 603 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I feel it like the feedback loop 604 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: of that is a little disconcerting. But then you introduced 605 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: that delay. Not to mention the sensory deprivation of just 606 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: being blindfolded alone, that's probably a big part of it too. Um. 607 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: I imagine if you did this in a purely sensory 608 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: deprived environment, it would probably amplify those sensations a lot, 609 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: because the other feeling of moving backwards, or the feeling 610 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: of like being disjointed in space and time, um a lot. 611 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: You know, you can you can trick yourself into a 612 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: lot of things just by closing your eyes really hard 613 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: and seeing visual distortions and sun spots and all the 614 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: little flashy things that happened. Um, I can imagine this 615 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: harnessed that pretty damn well. Pretty How do you come 616 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: up with this? What a weird concept, what a weird experiment? 617 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,399 Speaker 1: I guess they got a good deal on robot arms, 618 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, they had some lesson from some other thing exactly, 619 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: and you got also if you if you want to 620 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: experience there are a lot of interesting hacks you can 621 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: do to your own sense of appropriate reception. One one 622 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: thing for the gamers in the crowd, you can play 623 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: a game called Mirror's Edge. It's a first person p 624 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: o V parkour game. Mat. I think you and I 625 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: may have talked about this year's back when it came out. Yeah, 626 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's all. That's a really fun, strange game. 627 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: In fact, you can just do virtual reality of any 628 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: kind in a lot of ways. You can experience some 629 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: of that stuff, true, Yeah, Or you know, just take 630 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 1: a shower in the dark, that's what I do. Yeah, yeah, 631 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: I think it's weird that people shower with the lights on, 632 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like unrelated, if you guys 633 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: ever drink a beer in the shower. It's apparently a 634 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: thing people love to do, and I did it for 635 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: the first time the other week, and let me report back. 636 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: It is a delightful little luxury a shower beer. Just 637 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: putting that out there, unrelated please continue. So a co 638 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: author of this study, by the way, we would be 639 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: remiss if we didn't mention. The study came about led 640 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: by a professor olog Blanket and his co author summed 641 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 1: up their findings by saying the following quote. Our brain 642 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: possesses several representations of our body and space. Under normal conditions, 643 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: it is able to assemble a unify self perception of 644 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,720 Speaker 1: the self from these representations. But when the system malfunctions 645 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: because of disease or in this case, a robot, this 646 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: can sometimes create a second representation of one's own body, 647 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: which is no longer perceived as me, but as someone 648 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: else of presence. So also shout out to stuff you 649 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: should knows. Uh did they do that? They did an 650 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: episode on that rare uh psychological condition where someone feels 651 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: like their hand is not their own. Yeah, oh, what 652 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: is that called? What is called phantom hand? I'm kidding, 653 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell it's called that sounds 654 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: very unsettling, though I don't. I don't like it one bit. 655 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,919 Speaker 1: That was in the TV show where we on set 656 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: for that episode. I think we were. Yeah, the characters 657 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: based on us play player role in that alien hands syndrome, 658 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: I believe is the name. And then there's phantom limb. 659 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: But I like phantom hand. That also sounds like a 660 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 1: cool martial arts move that you would see in a 661 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: in a kung fu movie. But so there we have 662 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: these feelings of presence. The researchers call them fops. These 663 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: feelings of presence, again through a cultural lens, are often 664 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: interpreted as spirits, angels, demons, other supernatural creatures. Because you know, 665 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: many of these reports occur before the rise of modern 666 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: psychology or modern research into neurology. And we do have 667 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: one last note that pertains to our earlier conversation about 668 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: neurological disorders, because you see, before the researchers took these 669 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: volunteers and subjected them to the terror of the unknown 670 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: robot hand, they scan the brains of people who had 671 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: neurological disorders and had also encountered feelings of presence in 672 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,439 Speaker 1: the past. That's right, and they identified disturbances within those 673 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: brains in three specific regions, the insular cortex, the parietal 674 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: frontal cortex, and the temporo parietal cortex. Now that may 675 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: mean nothing to you, as it does to me, a 676 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,919 Speaker 1: guy who doesn't know much about parts of the brain. 677 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: But these these sectors, within all of our heads, we've 678 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: all got these. They're involved in self awareness, our understanding 679 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: of where we are in space and time, and who 680 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: we are, what we are in the sensations of movement, 681 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: in creating movement within our bodies, and our sense overall 682 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: of where we exist in physical space and time. So 683 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of weird, right, those are important things to just 684 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: be able to function right, knowing where you are, what 685 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,439 Speaker 1: you are, and how to move about. So we're gonna 686 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,839 Speaker 1: we're gonna continue down and find some things that are 687 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: even spookier in this world of scientific research into what 688 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: causes possibly poultergeists and other ghosts encounters. But first we're 689 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: gonna hear a word from our sponsor and we come 690 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: to it. This is this is my favorite part. This 691 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,399 Speaker 1: is the weirdest, most out there part. This involves two 692 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 1: Italian researchers, Piero Brovetto and Vera Maxia, They sought to 693 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: explain the origin of Poultergeist phenomena through the lens of 694 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: what they would describe as a quantum mechanical vacuum. Let 695 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: us pause and participate in the silent groans that every 696 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: physicist in the audience just expelled. Here's the deal at 697 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 1: the top, by the way, right right, and this is 698 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, this is an argument familiar to people who 699 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: perhaps delved into uh speculative science for characters like Carrie 700 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: in the Stephen King novel and later film. These researchers 701 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 1: argue that children during puberty undergo tremendous physiological changes various 702 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,439 Speaker 1: parts of their bodies, including, of course, the brain. That's 703 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: not controversial. That's something we can all agree on. Most 704 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 1: of us listening to the show today have probably experienced 705 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,360 Speaker 1: puberty firsthand. If you have not, you're in for a 706 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,399 Speaker 1: wild ride. Congratulations. Yes, make the most of the super fun. 707 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: So here's where these researchers ideas take a sharp turn 708 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 1: into fringe science. Bravetto and Maxia did not stop there. 709 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: They argue that changes in the adolescent brain, particularly that 710 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: of biological females UH somehow involved fluctuations in electron activity 711 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: long story short, that can somehow create disturbances up to 712 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: quote a few meters around the outside of the brain. 713 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: And these disturbances, they say, would be similar in character 714 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 1: to the quantum mechanical fluctuations that physicists believe occur in 715 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: the vacuum, in which virtual particle and antiparticle pairs pop 716 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: up for just a fleeting moment before they annihilate each 717 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: other and disappear again and then it starts over right. 718 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: They just something strange happens with those virtual and antiparticles, 719 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,439 Speaker 1: and they go on to say that within the pubescent brain, 720 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: the extra fluctuations that are triggered because of that what 721 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: the brain is going through, they believe that the number 722 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: of virtual particles surrounding the person is increased, which again, 723 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: like I'm still wrapping my head around just the concept 724 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: of virtual particles, but it's all good. The concept here 725 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: is that it would slowly increase the presence of air 726 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: around them. I was just trying to google virtual particles 727 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: and it came up with virtual party ideas, which I 728 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,760 Speaker 1: guess is a product of COVID. Uh please man, please continue? 729 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: So sorry? Oh yeah, okay, So increasing the number of 730 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: virtual particles around a person in theory, according to these guys, 731 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: would also increase the air pressure surrounding them. And the 732 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: thought is maybe the way the air pressure then is 733 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: altered could make a physical object, a paper or something 734 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: with very little mass would be much easier to manipulate 735 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: than maybe a telephone or something like that. But they're 736 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 1: saying they could move an object potentially by changing this 737 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 1: air pressure with their virtual particle pubescent brains. And yeah, 738 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: that if that is you believe them because think about 739 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: the tremendous change in air pressure that would be needed 740 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 1: to point matt move very heavy objects piece of paper? 741 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: Maybe why not? Uh slam a door? Yeah? An Oxford 742 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: English dictionary? Right? Uh? Two? Three very different objects in space. So, 743 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,320 Speaker 1: as we previously established in earlier episodes, everything we know 744 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: about the brain right now seems to indicate that this 745 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,760 Speaker 1: would be at the very least an implausible series of events. 746 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: This paper was published by the way, in the journal 747 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:34,880 Speaker 1: neuro Quantology. One note that I find hilarious. Brian Josephson, 748 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: a Nobel laureate physicist who is on the editorial board 749 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 1: of NeuroQuantology, was contacted for his input about the paper, 750 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: and while he was trying to be nice, he said, 751 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: it sounds distinctly flaky to me, at which point reading this, 752 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 1: I rolled my eyes and thought, editors, But you know, 753 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 1: despite being a little tight on time here, this is 754 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,240 Speaker 1: all to prove that there is research happening in this field. 755 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,399 Speaker 1: We get like a brief shout out to the very 756 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: end to one of my favorite hobby horses in this realm. 757 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,440 Speaker 1: But you wanted to tell us a little bit about 758 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,960 Speaker 1: the work of one Ian Stevenson, Right, Yeah, that's right, 759 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: only to kind of highlight the the idea that you know, 760 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: we know from folks like Russell targ you know, who 761 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: is a very renowned physicists um who did work with M. I. 762 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,440 Speaker 1: T and their research labs, but then ultimately went on 763 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 1: to uh focus his life's work on developing technology and 764 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: methods for harnessing psychic ability, something that the scientific community 765 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 1: at large doesn't believe to be a thing. And this 766 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: is a guy who comes from that world, and I'm 767 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 1: always fascinated by and it always gives a little more 768 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: credence some of these claims when you see people that 769 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,200 Speaker 1: kind of make that transition from the scientific to the 770 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: more spiritual or fringy or what have you. So this 771 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,680 Speaker 1: is a good example of that. This guy Ian Stevenson UM. 772 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: He was a can Adiens psychiatrist, Canadian born psychiatrist, but 773 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: did did his work in the US at the University 774 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: of Virginia School of Medicine. He worked there for fifty years. 775 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: He was the chair of the Department of Psychiatry from 776 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty seven UM and a Carlson Professor of 777 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,319 Speaker 1: Psychiatry from nineteen sixty seven to two thousand and one. 778 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: And I happened upon him in in preparing for this episode, 779 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 1: from a paper that he wrote in the Journal of 780 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: American Society for Psychical Research UM. And this is from 781 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,360 Speaker 1: volume sixty six from June of nineteen seventy two. And 782 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,480 Speaker 1: the title of the work is our Poulter Geists Living 783 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,880 Speaker 1: or Are They Dead? Um? And And the thing I 784 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 1: liked about that is that it kind of presupposes that 785 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: Poulter Geists are a real phenomenon, you know. It like 786 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: launches in with that kind of preconceived understanding. And I 787 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: appreciated that because it's not trying to debunk it, it's 788 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: kind of trying to explain it a little bit and 789 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,280 Speaker 1: go through something amples that he found in his research, 790 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,200 Speaker 1: most of which took place in India, and it was 791 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: a lot of the things we're talking about. There's one 792 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 1: called the case of Secre Kumar, which he acknowledges had 793 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,719 Speaker 1: some problems in it because there was a long gap 794 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 1: from when the events of the case actually occurred and 795 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: then when they were recorded, largely by uh, folks who 796 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,920 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily witness it. But he goes through and describes 797 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: them very matter of factly, things like books flying off 798 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: shelves and food disappearing and and um other you know, 799 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: some of these kind of run of the mill poulter 800 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,160 Speaker 1: Geist type activities, and uh, A lot of his work 801 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,319 Speaker 1: wasn't so much focused on poulter Geist. It was more 802 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: focused on proving the existence of the afterlife. So it 803 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 1: didn't want to go to do two t be into him. 804 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,600 Speaker 1: But if you, if anyone wants to read this paper, 805 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,719 Speaker 1: I definitely recommend it. It's it's you can find the 806 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: full text of it as a PDF online and it's 807 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 1: called Our poulter Geist Living or Are They Dead? And 808 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,880 Speaker 1: just an interesting dude. I think he'd be good to 809 00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 1: to dive into a little bit more. But there are 810 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: are examples of folks from the scientific community that do 811 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: put some credence into this whole phenomenon, and then they 812 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: don't just think it's you know, our mind playing tricks 813 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,640 Speaker 1: on us. Right. Yeah, So these Italian researchers and then 814 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 1: researchers like Stevenson. He also has some interesting work on 815 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: reincarnation which makes the same kind of assumption. It starts 816 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: from the assumption that reincarnation exists and attempts to prove 817 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: the process that it that it occurs through. But again 818 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,400 Speaker 1: he gets shredded by a lot of colleagues. He's not uh, 819 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:39,319 Speaker 1: you know, he's definitely has his critics. And there's an 820 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,360 Speaker 1: elephant in the room that we have to address. We 821 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,759 Speaker 1: set up at the top, we said it's one of 822 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 1: the most prominent. Not your room meant there's a elephant. 823 00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,359 Speaker 1: There's an elephant in the room inside all of us. Right, 824 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: Elephants are amazing, Yeah, and the or whatever we have 825 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: that passes for such. So this elephant in this episode 826 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,440 Speaker 1: is the cause stept of psychokinesis. Telekinesis why is all 827 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,480 Speaker 1: this weird moving around? Right, That's the question that so 828 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 1: many people have asked over the course of human civilization. 829 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:15,320 Speaker 1: While we have explored a few common causes or explanations 830 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: for poulter Geist pranks by the living, often children, scrambled 831 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,239 Speaker 1: sensory processing in our brains, and the possibility of a 832 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: still unproven in tropic neural activity related to puberty, there 833 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:34,800 Speaker 1: is this one big ghostly, spooky carry esque elephants, things 834 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,880 Speaker 1: moving without physically touching them. This has been treated as 835 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,440 Speaker 1: a distinct type of research, one without the trappings of 836 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: campfire tales and ghost stories and spooky stories to tell 837 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,480 Speaker 1: in the dark type approaches. There has been a ton 838 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,440 Speaker 1: of research into psychokinesis, and some of it is very 839 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 1: easily dismissed, and there's some that's more interesting. In a 840 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,280 Speaker 1: future episode, I would love for us to dive deeper 841 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 1: into the strange experiment at Duke University beginning in the 842 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,400 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. This is when the university opened an official 843 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,680 Speaker 1: Harris psychology lab headed by one jb Ryan. J. B 844 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,160 Speaker 1: Ryan may be familiar to some of us. He is 845 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,600 Speaker 1: the guy who literally coined the term Harris psychology. So 846 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna get into that later, and I think you're right, 847 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,200 Speaker 1: we have to get into Stevenson later. We may even 848 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,440 Speaker 1: get into specific, more robustly documented poltergeist cases later in 849 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,320 Speaker 1: the future, if this is of interest to our fellow 850 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,840 Speaker 1: conspiracy realists. To bring it all back around, however, for 851 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,239 Speaker 1: our purposes today, we're not saying that strange things did 852 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 1: not occur and later become recognized or called poltergeist cases. 853 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,400 Speaker 1: We're saying that the causes of these things were often misattributed. 854 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,759 Speaker 1: That part is inarguably true. We're also saying that as 855 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:56,240 Speaker 1: time went on, society began to shape the original stories 856 00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,160 Speaker 1: to something that would fit their own, larger or all 857 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 1: our narratives, and they became embellished with multiple retellings. They 858 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:11,880 Speaker 1: became increasingly compelling at the cost of becoming decreasingly factual. 859 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: That's that's what happened, especially with the older ones in 860 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,440 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, when we're looking at you know, the 861 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,760 Speaker 1: rise of spiritualism and so on, and you know, poulter 862 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: Geist in the crowd. Uh. If you feel like we 863 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:30,160 Speaker 1: got it wrong, let us know. Yeah, did you hear that? 864 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:36,920 Speaker 1: Stop it? I I don't know what's going on. Somebody's 865 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,960 Speaker 1: playing drums on my desk underneath it. Don't make me 866 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: actually go play the actual drums to to spook the 867 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:48,120 Speaker 1: poulter Geist because I'll do it well that that skeleton 868 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 1: behind me, Agent Scully seems to keep creeping a little 869 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:56,200 Speaker 1: bit closer to the camera as we can do. So 870 00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,319 Speaker 1: that's it for us today. But we passed the other 871 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 1: worldly to it to you yours to hold it spook 872 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,279 Speaker 1: a lee high. What do you think about this? Could 873 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:09,800 Speaker 1: there be some sort of compelling, provable, reproducible cause for 874 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,920 Speaker 1: poulter Geist activity? Could it be a mystery in the 875 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,360 Speaker 1: developing brain of a young adult? Uh? Could it be 876 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,919 Speaker 1: just a cultural lens through which we view weird things? Yes? 877 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: Who knows? Well? We want to know what you think, 878 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:29,320 Speaker 1: so find us on social media. We are conspiracy stuff 879 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook. On Yes, on Instagram, we are 880 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,960 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff Show. If you also go on Facebook, you 881 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 1: can find our community page is called Here's where it 882 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: Gets Crazy. We highly recommend you check it out spend 883 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,800 Speaker 1: some time there. If you don't want to do that stuff, 884 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,320 Speaker 1: you can give us a call. All you have to 885 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:56,400 Speaker 1: do is dial one eight three three st d w 886 00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,520 Speaker 1: y t K. Let us know your story and most importantly, 887 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,000 Speaker 1: let us know whether you are comfortable with it being 888 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,480 Speaker 1: used on the air because we need to know. While 889 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,680 Speaker 1: we're on the subject of listeners, we do have to 890 00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,919 Speaker 1: give a shout out to Victoria w Over on our 891 00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: Facebook page. You mentioned Matt Here's where it gets crazy. Uh, 892 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:24,280 Speaker 1: just because they were they started a drinking game based 893 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: on catchphrases we've used in the show. So I hope 894 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,280 Speaker 1: nobody gets alcohol poisoning. But also want to shout out 895 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,400 Speaker 1: all the all the people who have written in and 896 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,720 Speaker 1: decided to in place of identifying one of the hosts 897 00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: to get onto that page. You have been telling us 898 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,920 Speaker 1: some jokes that are amazing. So shout out to Jordan's 899 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: s who gives us the correct term for Pinterest users 900 00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: her husband calls them pin terrorists. Uh, and shout out 901 00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:57,120 Speaker 1: to Gerald T who says, uh, here's my current favorite 902 00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: joke to windmills built close together. We're getting to know 903 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,920 Speaker 1: one another. What kind of music do you like? Asked one. 904 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,439 Speaker 1: The other replied, well, I've always been a big metal fan. 905 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes wouldn't, sometimes wouldn't a lot of times wouldn't, But 906 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,600 Speaker 1: okay anyway, so we were frivol with that. But what 907 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: if you don't like phones, if you don't like social 908 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,800 Speaker 1: media or amazing memes and awesome jokes. There is still 909 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,600 Speaker 1: one way you can always contact us, regardless of the 910 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,280 Speaker 1: day of the week, the time, your position on poulter Geist, 911 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,720 Speaker 1: whether you are or are not currently haunted. You can 912 00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,680 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email where we are 913 00:58:43,040 --> 00:59:04,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want 914 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,800 Speaker 1: you to Know is a production of I heart Radio. 915 00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 916 00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,320 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 917 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:13,200 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.