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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and

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Speaker 2: tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 3: We have a great story we want to get to.

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Speaker 3: We've been talking about this a lot. We haven't it's

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Speaker 3: been on the terminal. We've been like, we've got to

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Speaker 3: get to Matt Boyle and talk about it. It has

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Speaker 3: a growing number of corporate leaders buckling under the stress

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Speaker 3: and uncertainty of the AI age. I would argue that's

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Speaker 3: why they get paid. Millions are looking for a very

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Speaker 3: human solution, and that is a chief of staff.

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Speaker 1: If you want to know how hard it is to

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Speaker 1: be a CEO right now, you can check out another

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Speaker 1: one of Matt's recent stories as well. This one, though,

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Speaker 1: is about a chief of staff. Matt Boyle, senior reporter

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Speaker 1: working management for Bloomberg News. He joins us here in

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. What the heck does a chief

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Speaker 1: of staff do?

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Speaker 4: Kind of everything?

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Speaker 2: I would say, yes, it is one of the most

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Speaker 2: unique roles I've ever looked at in sort of the

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Speaker 2: C suite, and I guess it is in the C

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Speaker 2: suite's leg They're literally they're attached to the hip, to

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Speaker 2: the CEO or the division president, whoever they're working for.

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Speaker 2: But let's say a CEO, you have to be a concierge.

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Speaker 2: You have to be a confidant, you have to be

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Speaker 2: a consigliere, you have to be kind of everything. But

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Speaker 2: it all comes down to another C word, chemistry. If

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Speaker 2: you do not get along with the boss, the CEO,

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Speaker 2: it's never going to work, no matter how talented you are.

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Speaker 1: Who are the types of people who are successful chiefs

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Speaker 1: of staff?

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Speaker 4: Imagine the corporate world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine you combine like the best executive assistant of

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Speaker 2: all time with like a strategic genius from McKinsey, and

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Speaker 2: you might get a great chief of staff because one

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Speaker 2: day they're just sort of like answering emails or they're

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Speaker 2: writing a speech for the boss. The next day the

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Speaker 2: CEO is like, oh, we've got to enter you know,

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Speaker 2: the Chinese market, Go figure it out. Or you know

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Speaker 2: there's there's a problem on the factory floor, Go take

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Speaker 2: the pulse of all our factory workers and report back

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Speaker 2: to me. So like, they are thrown onto these complex

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Speaker 2: assignments with you literally usually no notice, and they just

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Speaker 2: kind of have to figure it out.

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Speaker 3: How often does a chief of staff grow along with

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Speaker 3: an executive who who ultimately become CEO and the CEO

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Speaker 3: like tags them, takes them along as they move on.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I spoke to one woman who did the

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Speaker 2: job for both Jeff Bezos and Eric Schmidt. So if

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Speaker 2: you get a taste for it, and you're in certain

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Speaker 2: circles like tech, and the word gets out that you

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Speaker 2: are a very good chief of staff, you can do

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Speaker 2: it for some time. Although the media and tenure is

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Speaker 2: only two point three years because I mean a lot

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Speaker 2: of times they might burn out.

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Speaker 4: There's no chemistry with the CEO.

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Speaker 2: But once you're in call exactly, it is a twenty

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Speaker 2: four to seven job.

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Speaker 4: Your time is not your own.

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Speaker 2: I've been friends with some chiefs of staff and we've

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Speaker 2: been out for drinks at eleven o'clock at night and

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Speaker 2: there's a call coming in up.

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Speaker 4: Got to go, my boss.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it is a tough role, but you know

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Speaker 2: it's done by highly ambitious people who want to use

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Speaker 2: that job as.

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Speaker 4: A springboard to something even bigger.

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Speaker 3: Where do they go?

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Speaker 2: They often go into the C suite proper. It's it's

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Speaker 2: because they are roaming around the company and they know

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Speaker 2: all the inner workings. The next job can be often

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Speaker 2: the chief operating officer certainly, or you're running a business unit,

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Speaker 2: a unit of the company you were at. Sometimes you

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Speaker 2: just become a chief of staff again. But you know

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Speaker 2: the real ideal is to leverage that into a c

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Speaker 2: suite role.

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Speaker 3: Our men are women better chief of staff? Sorry, Tim,

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Speaker 3: I'm just.

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Speaker 4: Curious loaded question.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I wish I had some stats on it,

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Speaker 2: although there's a lot of statistics out there. There's a

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Speaker 2: whole chief of staff association. There are executive recruiters who

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Speaker 2: just hire for this role. So I never got any

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Speaker 2: sort of real like sort of hard like you know,

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Speaker 2: gender breakdown on it. But it's less i think, to

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Speaker 2: do with demographics and just more to do with you know,

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Speaker 2: how competent are you, how how much are you able

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Speaker 2: to sort of put your ego aside, because these are

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Speaker 2: all ambitious people who probably want to be CEO one day.

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Speaker 2: But if you are the chief of staff, it is

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Speaker 2: not about you, you know.

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Speaker 1: So my experience with chiefs of staff come from my

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Speaker 1: work many years ago working at the Huffington Post and

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Speaker 1: Marianna Huffington had chiefs of staff and it's it's pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty remarkable to see where they went after so one

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Speaker 1: of her chiefs of staff, Dan co to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and run for Congress. He ultimately lost, but then he

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Speaker 1: became Marty Walsh and Boston's chief of staff when he

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Speaker 1: was Mayor of Boston, and then he went to work

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Speaker 1: in the White House. Herbie' zisken went to work in

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Speaker 1: the White House as well for Kamala Harris, for the

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Speaker 1: Vice President. I mean, it's really remarkable to see.

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Speaker 2: But it's also much more common role you mentioned White

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Speaker 2: House to see this in political circles between the West Wing.

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Speaker 2: You think of the show The West Wing. You know,

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Speaker 2: the chief of staff on that show was a hero.

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Speaker 2: But it really has moved from politics. Well started in

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Speaker 2: the military, then to politics, then to big corporates. But

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Speaker 2: now like startups have chiefs of staff, Microsoft has more

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Speaker 2: than three hundred chiefs of staff running around Redman and

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Speaker 2: the world. I don't know exactly why. Why do you

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Speaker 2: have so many good questions? They wouldn't talk to me.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why, but a lot of they're usually

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Speaker 2: more of them in tech and financial services circles. For

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Speaker 2: some reason, you know you're going to see more of

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Speaker 2: a preponderance of them, But three hundred kind of blew

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Speaker 2: my mind.

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Speaker 1: Why why does the role take on different significance in

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Speaker 1: the AI era?

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Speaker 2: Well, let's see, I mean the CEO is trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out AI. We all are trying to figure out AI.

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Speaker 2: The role of the CEO is so much more complex.

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Speaker 2: You've not only got AI, you've got geopolitical chaos going on.

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Speaker 2: You need so on let's say with AI. Okay, how

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Speaker 2: is this going to change how we work? What sort

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Speaker 2: of governance do we need? What about all these tokens?

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Speaker 2: How expensive are they? And I know obviously some of

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Speaker 2: those decisions will fall under a CFO or an HR chief,

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Speaker 2: But a good chief of staff can grab some of

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Speaker 2: that AI adoption responsibility and just run with it. And

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Speaker 2: if you're suddenly the point person on AI in a

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Speaker 2: big corporate you're looking pretty good.

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Speaker 3: What was the wildest thing that you in reporting this

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Speaker 3: out that you came across.

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Speaker 2: Well, it came across some old friends of mine from

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Speaker 2: high school and college who are who have done this

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Speaker 2: role and are are certainly good at this role. But

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Speaker 2: what got me was the professionalization of it. There are

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Speaker 2: courses at Harvard Business School and Oxford about becoming a

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Speaker 2: better chief of staff. McKinsey runs a forum where all

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Speaker 2: chiefs of staff just show up and they kind of

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Speaker 2: just trade notes and kibbets and talk about the job.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine the energy level of those? Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: a lot of total type is one of those things.

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Speaker 1: Do you want the wine flowing or do you not

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Speaker 1: want the wine flowing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you think about how much access they have

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Speaker 3: and what they hear. They are in the room when

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Speaker 3: things are being said.

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Speaker 2: Love, we got to fly on the wall the staff forum, right,

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Speaker 2: do you think this lasts?

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Speaker 1: You know, this stuff can kind of be fads.

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Speaker 2: Some of Yes, you're right, some c suite rolls and

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Speaker 2: are kind of fly by night.

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Speaker 4: Not this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this role goes back to Napoleon. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's going away anytimes. As long as there are CEOs,

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Speaker 2: there will be chiefs of staff.

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Speaker 3: Four hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: Is that that was a little bit of an outlier.

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Speaker 2: It's more common to be like but still you're making sense.

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Speaker 3: I think you should be paid even more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm thinking more.

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Speaker 2: Some of them certainly get more. Now that's those are

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Speaker 2: just the posted roles. You know, some of them are

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Speaker 2: never posted because they know exactly who they want and

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Speaker 2: they're probably they might be making half a million, who knows,

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Speaker 2: but commonly median salaries, you know, to fifty three hundred

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Speaker 2: still a nice chunk of change, certainly, but some of

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Speaker 2: them could easily make far more. And then it's what

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Speaker 2: they can make after that that is really impressive.

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Speaker 3: I could just imagine the documents they have to sign.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the documents they have to sign. They have

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Speaker 2: to get the lunch order right too, I mean, don't

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Speaker 2: forget that.

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Speaker 1: Hey, let me just tell you guys something. I would

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Speaker 1: be the worst chief of staff, would you? Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you'd be great. No, what do you I

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Speaker 1: don't have the organizational prowess you need to be so organized.

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Speaker 4: You need that.

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Speaker 2: I mean a lot of journalists are organized, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of journalists are badly organized.

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Speaker 4: So like, yeah, it goes both ways.

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Speaker 1: It's also why I could never produce this show.

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Speaker 2: I think it could be.

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Speaker 1: I'm to do that.

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Speaker 3: I think it would be fun. Go for it. No, No,

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Speaker 3: I'm really happy.

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Speaker 2: I'm really happy here. That boy. We love you.

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Speaker 3: Senior reporter, working management for Bloomberg News