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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that gives you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 1: facts behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows and more.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jordan Runt Dog and I'm Alex Hego.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the second in our two part installments

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Speaker 1: celebrating David Bowie's breakthrough album, The Rise and Fall of

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Speaker 1: Ziggy Stardust and The Spiders from Mars, which turns fifty

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Speaker 1: years old this very week. Now. Bowie broke so many

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Speaker 1: boundaries and defied so many expectations, So in keeping with

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Speaker 1: that same bold spirit of innovation, we're delivering our first

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Speaker 1: two part episode. We hope you enjoyed. How do you

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Speaker 1: think it's going? I think you can map out the

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Speaker 1: progress here with the rise and fall of my serotonin levels. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think we're killing it. I like to think of

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Speaker 1: each one of us as different glam rock icons from

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Speaker 1: the seventies. Oh who are you? Which glam rock icon

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Speaker 1: are you? I am Iggy Pop during his terrible Berlin phase.

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Speaker 1: Berlin phase, not the couch phase. But who among us

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Speaker 1: has not been Iggy Pop living on his ex manager's couch.

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Speaker 1: If you could be a phase of Bowie, what phase

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Speaker 1: would you be? Oh gosh, um happy Bowie, like happily

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Speaker 1: married to a supermodel and not caring about things, but

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Speaker 1: before he had cancer. Um you mean like peak Bowie. Um.

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Speaker 1: Also David also in Berlin doing a lot of coke. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've never been to Berlin. Yeah, so I would like

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Speaker 1: to go there and do coke with Iggy pop and

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Speaker 1: right heroes one of the best ever who among us? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What about you? Oh man? I mean I would probably

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Speaker 1: be Diamond Dogs era. I would probably be taking on

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Speaker 1: a little too much, trying to do something it was

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Speaker 1: a little too crazy, a little too ambitious. That makes

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Speaker 1: sense to nobody but me. So yeah, probably Dinmond Dog's era.

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Speaker 1: If I was honest with myself, that tracks I mean,

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Speaker 1: in case this isn't obvious, And I know I mentioned

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Speaker 1: this in the last episode. Bowie as someone who means

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Speaker 1: a lot to me, if you allow me the shameless plug.

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Speaker 1: I spent a year writing and researching a scripted biographical

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Speaker 1: podcast for the folks that I heard called Off the

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Speaker 1: Record David Bowie, which came out in early to mark

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Speaker 1: the fifth anniversary of David's ascent to a new astral plane.

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Speaker 1: So he's someone that I feel very passionate about, so

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Speaker 1: please forgive me if I start to ramble. No, it's

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Speaker 1: a great podcast. Everyone should go listen to it. Jordan

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Speaker 1: made himself much like Bowie insane on it, uh and

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Speaker 1: much like Bowie's face when he subsisted on Red Pepper's

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Speaker 1: milk and cocaine, Jordan's subsisted on British candy, regional sodas,

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Speaker 1: and Seltzer. So you know, we got the Berlin Trilogy

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Speaker 1: out of it, and you find folks got an incredible podcast,

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Speaker 1: So go listen to it. But we're gonna go deep

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Speaker 1: on the Ziggy era for this one. In our first episode,

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Speaker 1: we just discussed the world that shape Ziggy start us.

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Speaker 1: Now we look at how Ziggy started us shape the world,

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Speaker 1: or at least a generation of artists. Today, we're going

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Speaker 1: to discuss how the Starman took flight, blasting Bowie into

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Speaker 1: the upper echelon of the music world, setting a benchmark

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Speaker 1: for rock and roll theatricality, physicality, and pure imagination, not

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Speaker 1: to mention pure rock and roll excess. Oftentimes, this took

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Speaker 1: the form of glitter and cocaine, but sometimes a dark

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Speaker 1: shadow and cocaine. Will also take a look at Bowie's

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Speaker 1: complex relationship with both his band and the lgbt Q community,

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Speaker 1: meditate on the likelihood that he was a sex addict,

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Speaker 1: explore his vaccination with Japan, and explain why he ultimately

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Speaker 1: killed off his most famous creation at the peak of

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Speaker 1: Ziggy's popularity. So, without further ado, here's everything else you

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Speaker 1: didn't know about David Bowie's the Rise and Fall of Ziggy,

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Speaker 1: Start Us and the Spiders from Mars. So the Zikist

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Speaker 1: artist store officially kicked off four months before the album

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Speaker 1: came out, on February two, at the Toby Jug Pub

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Speaker 1: in London, which is a truly spectacular name for a pub.

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Speaker 1: I have to say it was definitely a humble start,

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Speaker 1: considering the stadiums that were to come. Uh sixty people

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Speaker 1: milled around in front of the two foot high stage.

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Speaker 1: David would later say Ziggy was a case of small beginnings.

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Speaker 1: I remember when we had no more than twenty or

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Speaker 1: thirty fans at most. They'd be down in the front

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the audience was indifferent. And it

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Speaker 1: feels special because you and the audience kid yourselves that

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Speaker 1: you're in on this big secret. You feel kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: It all gets so dissipated when you get bigger. A

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Speaker 1: lot of artists, I feel like when they play the

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Speaker 1: bigger rooms like arenas and stadium start feeling like it.

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Speaker 1: It's harder to make it feel like it's a group

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Speaker 1: of friends or a clubhouse anyway. So the band his

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Speaker 1: Spiders from Mars, which we should say are Mick ronson

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Speaker 1: and guitar at, Trevor Boulder on base and Woody woodman

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Speaker 1: Z on RUMs. The spectacular named Woody woodman Z. The

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Speaker 1: band spent the spring months criss crossing England and cramped

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Speaker 1: cars and vans, playing mostly empty clubs and college venues,

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Speaker 1: and it was really not glamorous. They hold their own

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Speaker 1: gear and they peed in pub kitchen sinks. One time

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Speaker 1: a venue lost power in the middle of a gig,

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Speaker 1: and David was forced to amuse the crowd by giving

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Speaker 1: an imprompt to rundown of his outfit to just kill

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Speaker 1: time while they worked on getting the uh the electricity back.

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Speaker 1: Another time, David tried to crowd surf as he's seen

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Speaker 1: his buddy Iggy Pop do, and there weren't enough people

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Speaker 1: and he fell flat on his face. So remember all

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Speaker 1: this when we were talking about the you know, twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar room service bills at the Beverly Hills Hotel

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Speaker 1: and stuff later on, you know, in the next year

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Speaker 1: or so. This is very humble beginnings. But slowly but

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Speaker 1: surely words started to spread and the audience started to swell.

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Speaker 1: And The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the

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Speaker 1: Spiders from Mars was released on June six two, and

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Speaker 1: as I said, it was a slow burn, first, selling

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Speaker 1: eight thousand copies in its first week, which was respectable

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Speaker 1: but hardly earth shattering. But then in July seventy two,

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Speaker 1: there was one performance that would change everything. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: this was an appearance on the British television program Top

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Speaker 1: of the Pops. And this show in England was kind

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Speaker 1: of the everest for every music act in the UK.

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Speaker 1: Once you've been on Top of the Pops, you were

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Speaker 1: officially a star. Everyone watched it. It It was like their

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Speaker 1: version of Ed Sullivan. And in a pre digital age,

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Speaker 1: this was one of the few opportunities you had to

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Speaker 1: actually see your favorite artists, you know, when they weren't

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Speaker 1: out on the road on tour. I love this. While

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Speaker 1: Bowie and his band are waiting to go on, the

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Speaker 1: staff of the BBC assumed that they were extras from

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Speaker 1: Doctor Who because of their flamboyant Spiders from Mars outfit um,

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Speaker 1: which is great. But seven thirty pm on the night

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Speaker 1: of July six, some fifteen million people got their first

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Speaker 1: look at Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. You know,

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Speaker 1: Bowie's not one who really trades and cliches, but it

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Speaker 1: really was a star is Born kind of moment, and

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Speaker 1: it's fitting for such a star making performance. He played Starman,

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Speaker 1: his latest single, and life would really never be the

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Speaker 1: same for David again after this Top of the Pops performance.

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Speaker 1: Just two days after the broadcast, the band performed a

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Speaker 1: charity show at London's Royal Festival Hall, where David was

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Speaker 1: introduced as quote the next biggest thing to God the

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Speaker 1: hell of an intro, and within a week of the

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Speaker 1: performance on Top of the Pop Starman, the single entered

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Speaker 1: the top ten. The Ziggy Starts LP started flying off

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Speaker 1: shelves and by the end of the year, practically everything

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Speaker 1: that David had ever done was charting. He'd done a

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Speaker 1: number of albums before this, and it all flopped upon

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Speaker 1: its release, but all of a sudden they under the

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Speaker 1: charts too, and fans started camping out outside of his

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Speaker 1: his home. One of these fans was a young boy, George,

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Speaker 1: who would borrow make up quite a bit from David. Um.

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Speaker 1: So Yeah, the Beatles had the Unsullivan Show, Bowie had

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Speaker 1: Top of the Pops. Everything about it was just right.

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Speaker 1: It was the right time, it was the right song,

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Speaker 1: it was the right style. The day after the show aired,

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Speaker 1: classrooms and playgrounds were a buzz with talk of this

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Speaker 1: alien who would hijacked the BBC air waves for three

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Speaker 1: and a half precious minutes. And not only did the

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Speaker 1: show helped launch David's career in the UK, but it

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Speaker 1: also started an untold number of other musical careers. You had,

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Speaker 1: future members of You Two, the Smith's Joy Division, and

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Speaker 1: so many more all watched this show and cited it

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Speaker 1: as a major influence and catalyst for wanting to jump

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Speaker 1: start their own bands. So to say you change lives

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Speaker 1: with that performance isn't an understatement at all. And with

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Speaker 1: Bowie's confident flamboyance, he'd issued a challenge that was important

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Speaker 1: for younger people to see. If you want my talent,

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Speaker 1: accept all of me, makeup and all, and he was

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Speaker 1: good enough that people did. And his triumph was really

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Speaker 1: a triumph for anyone who ever felt like an outcast,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of made him, uh really for the

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Speaker 1: rest of his career the patron saint of the weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and again, we can't underscore enough the fact that homosexuality

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Speaker 1: had been on the books legal for just five years

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Speaker 1: in the k at this point. But you know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like a switch had suddenly flipped. Um. There's a

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Speaker 1: book called Glitter Up the Dark by um Sasha Geffen

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Speaker 1: who notes that plenty of gay men were still being

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Speaker 1: arrested for consensual sex acts. They quote an l g

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Speaker 1: B t Q activist named Peter Tatchell who said in

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Speaker 1: seventeen that the partial decriminalization of homosexuality in nineteen six

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Speaker 1: seven was very partial. Indeed, but in July uh that year,

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Speaker 1: two thousand people marched through London in the UK's first

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Speaker 1: ever Pride rally. So progress was incremental. And it's strange

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Speaker 1: to think about now you mentioned how that wasn't like

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Speaker 1: a switch was flicked. The acceptance in the mainstream culture

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Speaker 1: was very gradual. The thing that raised the most eyebrows

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Speaker 1: about David's performance on Top of the Pops. Wasn't his

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Speaker 1: crazy outfit, wasn't his feat makeup. But it was a

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Speaker 1: moment that I when I rewatched this clip doesn't even

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Speaker 1: register with me. It's the moment when the band launches

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Speaker 1: into the Starman chorus. David goes over to guitarist mcronson

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Speaker 1: and casually drapes his arm around him and they pull

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Speaker 1: each other close so they can sing together. And viewers

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Speaker 1: today I really don't think we think twice about seeing

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Speaker 1: such an act. But in the early seventies in England,

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Speaker 1: such a physical contact between men, especially men who were

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Speaker 1: dressed like that, was shocking. I mean, you know, the

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Speaker 1: people wondering could these men and drag adjacent outfits be

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Speaker 1: a couple? Gasp, I say, yeah, I am also struck

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Speaker 1: in that performance by it's such a common, obvious thing

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Speaker 1: that you see people do all the time. But the

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Speaker 1: way that he points right into the camera and says

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Speaker 1: I had to phone someone, so I picked on you.

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Speaker 1: It's such a meaningful thing that kids in the UK

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Speaker 1: would have looked at and been like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that moment. They really love it so much. It's so good.

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Speaker 1: But so you know, we do have to talk about

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Speaker 1: David's courting of the queer vote, which is a light

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Speaker 1: way of putting the fact that he treated the public

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Speaker 1: perception of his sexuality charitably as another thing that he

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Speaker 1: could kind of pick up and use. Um. You know.

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Speaker 1: On the cover of Man Who Sold the World, he's

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Speaker 1: lounging on a piece of furniture in the quote man

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Speaker 1: dress from a British designer really Mr Fish, who I

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Speaker 1: believe Big Jagger would also shop from at one point.

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Speaker 1: But the other big bomb he drops around this time

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Speaker 1: is months before the Top of the Pops performance in

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Speaker 1: February of nineteen two. He's giving an interview to Melody Maker,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the biggest British music Is that tabloid?

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Speaker 1: Would you call it a tabloid music publications? I think

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Speaker 1: it's a yeah. That that in the New Musical Express

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Speaker 1: Enemy and kind of the two. Well it hasn't this

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Speaker 1: part hasn't aged well. Uh. Michael Watts described David as

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Speaker 1: rocks swishiest outrage, a gorgeously effeminine boy who's as camp

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Speaker 1: as a row of tents. This is in his article

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Speaker 1: for Melody Maker. Yeah, uh yeah, swish was kind of

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Speaker 1: like a soft slur back then, not a great thing

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Speaker 1: to see in print. But um so, anyway, the quote,

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Speaker 1: the pool quote from the interview is Bowie saying, I'm

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Speaker 1: gay and always have been, even when I was David Jones.

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Speaker 1: And then he shoots down the fact that he may

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Speaker 1: have been doing this to court controversy. He says, I'm

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Speaker 1: not outrageous, I'm David Bowie, and which is a great quote.

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Speaker 1: Greatly he did have a way with a sound bite,

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Speaker 1: um and predictably caused an enormous delusion the press. There

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Speaker 1: were very few, if any, openly gay musicians in England

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Speaker 1: at the time, and coming out in the pages of

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Speaker 1: a print publication, much less one of the publications was

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Speaker 1: really just a move that didn't have any precedent um.

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Speaker 1: And also the fact that David had a wife and

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Speaker 1: kid who is in her own way kind of a

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Speaker 1: celebrity at this point too, and she was like she

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a fashion star, right, um my

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Speaker 1: going at my talent tales out of school there, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean she kind of I mean, part

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Speaker 1: of the reason that they ended up breaking up was

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Speaker 1: that she felt like they had kind of a mutual

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Speaker 1: understanding that they would focus on making David a pop star,

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Speaker 1: and then once he was up on that ledge, he

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Speaker 1: would pull her up and she would be an actress, raconteur,

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Speaker 1: cultural provocator kind of type figure. And then he got

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Speaker 1: so caught up in his own world that he sort

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Speaker 1: of didn't really reciprocate. But you know, we mentioned this

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Speaker 1: in the last episode two, when David met all of

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Speaker 1: his artistic friends and confidants, like the the Andy Warhol crowd,

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Speaker 1: they all thought that his wife Angie was like the

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Speaker 1: really interesting, cool, innovative one, and they thought that David

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Speaker 1: was kind of like this mousey meek drip was the

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Speaker 1: word that they used. So, yeah, his relationship with his

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Speaker 1: wife Angie was really very fascinating. They almost seemed like

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Speaker 1: it reminds me of the relationship between Frank Underwood and

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Speaker 1: his wife whose name escapes me on The House of Cards,

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Speaker 1: Like it seemed very much an arranged union of power. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she does not have good things to say about him,

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Speaker 1: and um, please kill me, which I as for this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so funny. She basically for all of the and

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Speaker 1: they had a very open marriage for all of the

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Speaker 1: people that either one of them slept with while they

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Speaker 1: were together. The person who sort of broke up their

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Speaker 1: marriage was Iggy Pop because she was just like, I

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Speaker 1: did not like that friendship. Um great music came out

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Speaker 1: of it, though. Anyway, she was caught off guard by this.

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Speaker 1: She said, you could have at least said you were bisexual.

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Speaker 1: But predictably, the story kicked off a widespread debate about

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Speaker 1: the exact nature of David's sexual identity. Was this a

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Speaker 1: proud declaration of sexual independence or was it just an

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Speaker 1: easy way to garner some inches in the columns. As

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Speaker 1: with most things, the truth lies probably somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 1: David was the son of a pr man. His first

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Speaker 1: straight job, oh god, that bad word play, had been

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Speaker 1: in advertising, and you know, throughout his entire career he's

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Speaker 1: just sort of been mastered, getting the press to kind

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Speaker 1: of dance at his tempo. Um. Well, I think the

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Speaker 1: thing that's important to note is that he'd been trying

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Speaker 1: to break into the music world since thinking sixty four

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Speaker 1: sixty five, so this is like seven years at this point.

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Speaker 1: So he was kind of on the sidelines watching other

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Speaker 1: people do it, watching what worked. So he was not

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Speaker 1: only had you know, seven years of studying how the

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Speaker 1: game was played. But it was also a lot older

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Speaker 1: than the big sixties stars who broke on through. I

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Speaker 1: mean the Beatles, the Who, the Kinks, and the big

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Speaker 1: bands that you know, we're getting huge. When he first

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Speaker 1: was trying to break into the industry in the mid

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Speaker 1: sixties were in their late teens really, and now Bowie

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Speaker 1: was like twenty five. So he was much more sophisticated

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Speaker 1: in the art of media manipulation and much more savvy.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's an important thing to know that

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Speaker 1: he was half a generation removed from all the big

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Speaker 1: sixties stars, and I think that that half generation, that

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Speaker 1: that five six seven year period made a huge difference. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he was always just sort of along with aliens

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Speaker 1: and jazz, the gays or is big another big parlor

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Speaker 1: fascination for him, you know, on the road Aroak the

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Speaker 1: Beats have some queer themes running through the entire genre. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Alan Ginsburg, it's a huge figure in that. John Rishi's

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Speaker 1: a city of night and as a teen he would

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Speaker 1: make claims to his bandmates that he was bisexual. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of different people have thrown around words like opportunist,

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Speaker 1: narcissist contrived. Watts, who wrote that article said, personally, I

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Speaker 1: think he was lying. I think he said it for

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Speaker 1: effect as much as anything else. He is a master

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Speaker 1: at misleading the press and creating headlines as a result.

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Speaker 1: And then four years later, David talked to him again,

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Speaker 1: which was possibly a mistake, and denied the whole thing bisexual.

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Speaker 1: Oh lord, No, positively not, he said, which sounds like

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Speaker 1: he's like clutching. Actual. He said that that was just

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Speaker 1: a lie. I never adopted that stance. It was given

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Speaker 1: to me. I've never done a bisexual action in my

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Speaker 1: life on stage, on record, or anywhere else. Fantastic, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, yeah, yeah, like camp like he's like winking

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Speaker 1: as he says it um. Later that same year, he

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Speaker 1: told Playboy, It's true I am bisexual, but I can't

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Speaker 1: deny I have used that fact very well. I suppose

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Speaker 1: it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Then

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, he would characterize his homosexual declaration as

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Speaker 1: the biggest mistake I ever made and advised fans not

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Speaker 1: to believe everything that they read. The eighties period really

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Speaker 1: lost him a fair amount of fans because that was

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Speaker 1: sort of the era when he this is the era

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Speaker 1: when he became MTV famous and famous in a way

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Speaker 1: that he had really never been for all of his

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Speaker 1: artistic breakthroughs all throughout the seventies, when he started doing

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Speaker 1: Let's Dance and getting the video of China Girl played

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Speaker 1: on MTV and stuff, that was a whole different level

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Speaker 1: of like mall fame that he'd never really been. And

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Speaker 1: so he I mean again, he looks like the perfect

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Speaker 1: pop star for Reagan's America. And he kind of started

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Speaker 1: to walk back a lot of his um things that

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Speaker 1: would mark him as different from the main stream, and

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Speaker 1: one of that was the set s truel stance. And

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends who talked about that

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Speaker 1: period in a really disparaging way because it was just

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Speaker 1: because they thought that he was abandoning them. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then like ten years later in the nineties, he's saying, um,

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Speaker 1: I think I was always a closet heterosexual fun fun

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Speaker 1: turn of phrase there. I was physical about it, but frankly,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't enjoyable. It was almost like I was testing

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Speaker 1: myself For me, I was more magnetized by the whole

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Speaker 1: gay scene. It was like another world that I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to buy into. Oh there's the quote. I didn't

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Speaker 1: sell out, I bought in uh. And then, like we said, Angie,

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of score settling acts, grinding and please

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Speaker 1: kill me. She says. When David said in Melody Maker

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Speaker 1: that he was gay, then he changed it and said

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Speaker 1: he was bisexual, which is what he really meant. He

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Speaker 1: never would have had the balls to do that unless

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Speaker 1: he had been hanging around with Iggy Pop and lou Reid,

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Speaker 1: because they represented this place across the ocean where things

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Speaker 1: were changing. So as an American woman, you know, she

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Speaker 1: kind of painted that statement in his whole stance there

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Speaker 1: as sort of a by way of his fascination with

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Speaker 1: American culture, and in particular, you know lou Red and

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Speaker 1: Iggy Moore, who were both kind of dabbling and pushing

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Speaker 1: those boundaries themselves, although in an extremely not famous way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were both such fringe figures by at

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Speaker 1: this point. So thanks for changing in the States, but

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Speaker 1: they were changing a lot more slowly in the UK,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of David's friends were really concerned that

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Speaker 1: he ruined his career with this announcement and Melodymaker that

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Speaker 1: he was gay in early nineteen seventy two, and obviously

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Speaker 1: he did meet with some resistance, especially actually ironically later

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Speaker 1: on when he did come to the States, when a

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Speaker 1: lot of Southern program directors refused to play him or

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Speaker 1: allow him on their show for interviews. One station manager

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Speaker 1: even said to him, we don't have perverts on this show.

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Speaker 1: Just yeah, which I mean. It's really funny because Alice

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Speaker 1: Cooper had made the transition from dresses and high heels

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Speaker 1: to embracing the full on gore and horror in his set.

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Speaker 1: So blood and dead babies were fine in America, but

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Speaker 1: not a man in a dress. I think that is

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Speaker 1: America in nineteen seventy two and maybe two. And during

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Speaker 1: these ziggy shows, David incorporated a bit of stage business

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Speaker 1: where he'd throw himself at mc ronson's feet during the

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Speaker 1: Guitar solo and Suffragette City and the photographer Mick Rock,

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Speaker 1: the recently departed brilliant photographer Rock photographer Mick Rock, incredible name,

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Speaker 1: incredible talent Um captured this moment for posterity where Bowie

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Speaker 1: is on his knees at Ronson's feet as he's playing

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Speaker 1: a solo, David's faces notably near Ronson's crotch photos of

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Speaker 1: this right. But there's this one in particular that David

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00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 1: loved so much that he ran it as a full

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Speaker 1: page advertisement in the Music Pressed. And it was supposedly

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Speaker 1: a thank you to his fans and staff, it was

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Speaker 1: basically an advertisement for himself a look how outrageous I

387
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Speaker 1: am picture that he paid to have placed in the

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Speaker 1: Music Press. But the stunt had the unintended consequence of

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Speaker 1: making life difficult for Mick Ronson and his family, who

390
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 1: all endured shouts of various homophobic slurs. Paint was thrown

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00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: on the Ronson's front door and even on the new

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Speaker 1: car that Mike had just bought them. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: things were a lot slower to change in England than

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Speaker 1: some parts of America, I should say, in the early seventies.

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Speaker 1: And this all kind of gets to a larger question

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Speaker 1: of was Bowie good for the l g B t

397
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Speaker 1: Q community. Many in the Burgeinn and gay rights community

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Speaker 1: regarded David as a hero, and this always made David

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Speaker 1: really uneasy. And he was very happy to encourage people

400
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Speaker 1: to be themselves, let their freak flag fly, so to speak.

401
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: But he saw himself as an artist rather than an activist,

402
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to become a lightning rod for

403
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Speaker 1: socio political causes. For all of the personas that David

404
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: would inhabit over the years, he never adopted that of

405
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: a radicalized street fighting man, and this disappointed some people

406
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 1: in the LGBTQ world who felt betrayed and in some

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Speaker 1: cases even used by David as he began to walk

408
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Speaker 1: back his seemingly proud sexual declaration in the eighties. Like

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00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,959
Speaker 1: I just mentioned, but despite this complicated alliance, it's impossible

410
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: to downplay the impact that David had in bringing gay

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00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: culture to the mainstream. And to this point, homosexuals and

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00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 1: mass media were basically punchlines and stereotypes. David projected strength, talent, youth,

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Speaker 1: and success, and to quote the designer Jean Paul Gautier,

414
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: he gave many the courage not to hide, and that

415
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: went for homosexuals and also really anyone who deviated from

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Speaker 1: the norm. We're going to take a quick break, but

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more too much information in

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Speaker 1: just a moment. You know, we had just talked about

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Speaker 1: Angie saying that America was kind of a longstanding promised

420
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Speaker 1: land for David, and so we come to the First

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Speaker 1: American Tour September nineteen seventy two, complicated slightly by the

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00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: fact that David refused to fly. If it flies, it's

423
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: death was his mantra um. Yeah, he refused to stay

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00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: in hotel rooms higher than the fourth floor because he

425
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: had a real problem with heights. So he took an

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Speaker 1: ocean Liner QUE two. The ocean liner from England to

427
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: New York had great expense. We did we talk about

428
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: DeFries last time? Tell you the phrase, no, we have not.

429
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: Probably the biggest wheeler dealer manager this side of Elvis's manager,

430
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: Colonel Tom Parker. He is quite a character and he's

431
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: still alive, so we should be very careful. So we'll

432
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: pepper in some of his greatest hits as we go.

433
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, he decided to play up this phobia

434
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: actually because Zeppelin has their famous jet with the logo

435
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: plastered on it. Elton John had a private jet, but

436
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: David has an ocean liner. And it's interesting. Uh. I

437
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: was just reading in the dogget book The Man Who

438
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: Sold the World about how the twenties and thirties were

439
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: kind of coming back into vogue at this time, at

440
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: least for a certain hipster intelligencia in Britain because they

441
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: were kind of retreating back even further than World War

442
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: Two to this what they saw is kind of this

443
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: last era of glamour. So anyway, yeah, Ocean Liner would

444
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: play into that. Like this was around when did Great

445
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: Gatsby movie with Redford come out, Like it was seventy

446
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: seventy four, so yeah, around the same time, right, de

447
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: free it's de Freeze, right, I think it's the Freeze. Yeah, yeah,

448
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: he is. Strategy with David could best be described as

449
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: fake it till you make it. For years, any British

450
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: act who wanted to break into the United States kind

451
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: of had to start from scratch. They would slept around

452
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: these tiny venues, play third on the bill supporting American

453
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: acts and try and just build buzz by really just

454
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: hitting the bricks. And de Freeze planned to skip all that,

455
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: not just cut the line. David Bowie would arrive on

456
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: American shores as an a lister. He insisted that David

457
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: would never open for anyone but always headline, which I

458
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: wasn't Also a thing that Proviso and Hendricks and the

459
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: Who that was like the big power move at the time, right,

460
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: I think so yeah, I mean that might have been

461
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: the power move for them, But I don't think he

462
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: would write clauses into his performance contract demanding the largest

463
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: grand piano in any city that he was playing for

464
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 1: his gig. They won't even name it. They just like

465
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: whenever the biggest one is give us that thing. Well,

466
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: anything less than nine feet would result in the immediate

467
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: cancelation of his performance. Yeah, just a couple of other

468
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: choice bits from the Riders. If the venue didn't have

469
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: a private walk away from the entrance to the dressing room,

470
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: they would have to build one so that David could

471
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: remained unseen. And uh, he was expected to live up

472
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: this image on on his end as well. He was

473
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: booked into the highest end hotels so that David could

474
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: get used to the v I P treatment. Oh, it

475
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: was like training. This was before he was on tour.

476
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: He would spend weekends extremely high end London hotels to

477
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: get used to having people weight on him and stuff. Yeah,

478
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: and they gave him a large yorkshireman named Stewie George

479
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: who was hired as his personal bodyguard. And um, they

480
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: would actually rehearse leaving venues in a hurry like the

481
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: scene from the bodyguard. I don't know if he was

482
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: actually carried Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston, but yeah, he

483
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: would spring outside into one of three vans, one real

484
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: one and two decoys that would be idling outside of

485
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: the venue and old. It's really insane. He grew up

486
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: with a hard days night. This is like all the

487
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: hard Days Night fantasies and yeah, yeah, yeah, George is

488
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: a wacky guy. He gave an interview to the Sun

489
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: recently that fed this constant music industry scuttle butt that

490
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: Bowie and Mick Jagger used to sleep together all the time,

491
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: adding the fascinating variation on that that ballet dancer Rudolph

492
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: Nuyev was banned from a very specific threesome that the

493
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: pair had with an unnamed famous British female singer. I

494
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,479
Speaker 1: don't know why he was locked out of that, but um,

495
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: it's not the first time that there's an overlap between

496
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger and Neureev. Christopher Anderson's bio of Jagger, called

497
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: Mick the Wildlife and Mad Genius of Jagger, includes the

498
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: claim that Nouriev and Jagger playfully trapped Geraldo Rivera in

499
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: the middle of a sexual sandwich at a party. I

500
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 1: don't know what that means. Maybe they just ran up

501
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: on him and started grinding on him, but Rivera claimed

502
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: that this was mixed serious attempt to seduce him. So

503
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: there's your Mick Jagger weird sex stuff corner. Now tell

504
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: us about Maine Man Jordan's yes to aid. In his

505
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: American assault, Tony Defrees set up a field office in

506
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: New York City for his newly formed management company called

507
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: MainMan One word, well, yeah, one word maine Man, and

508
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: the expensive offices in Midtown Manhattan were basically a stage

509
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: set designed to project strength, importance, and above all success. Again,

510
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: this is a guy with no hit records in the

511
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: United States. But the rooms, they were all decorated with

512
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: elegant leather armchairs and framed portraits of David and expensive

513
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: stationary and everything looked amazing. But the suggestion of immense

514
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: wealth was purely a facade. DeFreeze was very much of

515
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: the you need to spend money to make money, and

516
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: he knew how to spend money. Look a kind of

517
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: similar approach with his employees, who were hired more or

518
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: less because they looked cool rather than for any professional skills.

519
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: The new York main office was staffed with basically a

520
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: cast of freaks for Castomy warhol Well, yeah, the cast

521
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: of Pork Andy Warhol's play. When we use that term loosely, Um,

522
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: they were all Warhols factory freaks, and they were urged

523
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: to act and look like a million dollars and this

524
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: involved pretending that they had a million dollars. So they

525
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: were turned loose with company credit cards and encouraged to

526
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: pay for lavish meals with huge groups of industry insiders.

527
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: There were fleets of limousines kept on constant call, and

528
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: on top of their hundred dollars a week salary, which

529
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: was decent back then, staffers had their rent paid. And

530
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: you know who else had the rent paid? A group

531
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: known as the f O d s or Friends of David,

532
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: who were people who had no tangible role within the

533
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: company but they were taking care of anyway. Yeah. At

534
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: Lee Chowders says in please kill me that de Frieze

535
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: and Tony Zanetta, Yeah, yeah, took him out to dinner

536
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: or and made the decision that he would be the

537
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: VP of the company just based on their dinner conversation,

538
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: and then he promptly installed Cherry Vanilla, another factory figure

539
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: as the secretary, which is an incredible time. They had

540
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: no idea what they were doing and just doing it

541
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: on our CIA's time. It was amazing, yeah, I mean.

542
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: And the best part is, in order to add this

543
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: extra layer of mystique around David, Tony Duffries turned down

544
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: basically all interviews by this point in late nineteen seventy two,

545
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: and instead the aforementioned Cherry Vanilla, who was a factory

546
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: She did have a background in pr but she was

547
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: mostly a denizen of Warhol's factory, would give interviews, but

548
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: she would just make outrageous claims about him being like

549
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: communists and all this other stuff. And during one she

550
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: claimed that David met a point to sleep with everyone

551
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: who worked for him. And the following day the main

552
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: man offices were flooded with job applications, but again the

553
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: employees were better at looking cool than being productive. And

554
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: you mentioned de Freeze drafted the indie Warhol acolyte named

555
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: Tony Zanetta to act as tour manager for this US tour,

556
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: but the title meant absolutely nothing to Tony Zonetta, who asked,

557
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: what does the road manager do? And Tony DeFreeze. David's

558
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: manager just kind of annoyed by the question, just said,

559
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: just just make sure they find Cleveland, which is where

560
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: the tour was due to kick off. He Zenetta claims

561
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: on the Diamond Dogs tour he was partying in a

562
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: hotel with a bunch of these A listers and they

563
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: knocked on the door and they're like, it's the cops,

564
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: and everyone just drops their drugs on the carpet, and

565
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: then he got arrested for it because the room is

566
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: in his name. I just love that, like just a

567
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: coordinated thing. Everyone just drops a bunch of blow and

568
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: weed and whatever else on the floor, so they walk in.

569
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of celebrities like standing around, like

570
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: just studiously ignoring a drug littered shag carpet. That's how

571
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: I imagined it, anyway. But thankfully Tony Zonetta and the

572
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: Bowie crew did find Cleveland, where Bowie made his American

573
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: debut on September two, and this by metis ocation was

574
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: nearly a total loss after organizers failed to provide a

575
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: properly huge Baby Grand piano under nine feet. They were

576
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: not messing around. They were gonna completely scuttle his American

577
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: debut until they found an appropriately enormous set of keys

578
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: borrowed from the City Symphony Orchestra. But thankfully, other than that,

579
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: his American debut went off without a hitch. But something

580
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: really interesting happened afterward. David met a twenty one year

581
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: old fan from Akron, Ohio named Chrissy Hind who was

582
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: the future front woman of the Pretenders, and she and

583
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: her friends chauffeured David around the rest of the night

584
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: in her mother's oldsmobile to like a local diner and

585
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: hung out. I love pre fame rock stars hanging out,

586
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: and I love that he was so not big that

587
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: he could just meet up with some fans to go

588
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: out to a diner in Cleveland. That's I love this

589
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: so much. So I got some good old fashioned American hospitality.

590
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: But this hospitality was taken to a a logical conclusion

591
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: when yeah, they had a lot of fun on this

592
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: tour in different ways. They would love to just crash

593
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: these hotel cocktail lounges late at night in their full

594
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: makeup and costume, just to see the looks of everybody

595
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: as they kind of strutted in, looking and sounding like aliens.

596
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: Because if you're in Cleveland, you probably, isn't it. I

597
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: think it's lou Reid who U Mick Ronson plays on

598
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: the Transformers the Transformer tour with him, and I think

599
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: it's in the classic albums for Transformer that He's like,

600
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't understand a single word, he said, Yeah, is

601
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: that is that? All these like northern English guys come

602
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 1: in and it's just like, and you're in Cleveland. You

603
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: have not heard that accent before? Um? Yeah. And so

604
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: Zanetta got a call one morning that well, David just

605
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: had gone missing. All the gears packed the cruise ready

606
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: to go, David is nowhere to be found, and so

607
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: thankfully he gets another phone call from David, who also

608
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: has no idea where he is uh and gives him

609
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: the wonderful description I'm in a house. There are trees everywhere.

610
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: I think I'm in the middle of a forest. Stories honestly,

611
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: kudas to the bell hop at the hotel, who somehow

612
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: manages to work out where he is based on that.

613
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: But then they found him happy, so all's well, that

614
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: ends out well. But you know, the stories of the

615
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: stuff they got off to on this tour are endless

616
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: and usually related to sex stuff. Uh, you know. Once

617
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: at a party, Bowie sets his sight on a woman

618
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: who is dancing with disgusting garbage person Kim Fowley, one

619
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: of the worst people in the l A music scene,

620
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: and David sidles up to him and politely asks are

621
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: you in love with this woman? Or may I take

622
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: her into the bathroom? And um, he responded in the

623
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: in the negative. I'm pretty sure the woman was like

624
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: overhearing all of this. I think she was like right

625
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: there listening to they really talked about her as if

626
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: she wasn't there, uh and receiving no objection, David then

627
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: turns to her and says, how do you do I'm

628
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: David Bowie. I'd like to discuss life or the universal whatever,

629
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: my dear, and takes her by the hand and they

630
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: go off looking for a restroom. David Bowie bat in

631
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: a thousand. My favorite seventies rock star pickup line. I

632
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: think edging that out belongs to Mick Jagger, who used

633
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: to ask people do you prefer to wake up in

634
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: the city or the country, and that would decide whether

635
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: or not they would take him to his London town

636
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: house and Chelsea or his baronial manner star Groves in

637
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: the British countryside Jagger. Uh. Many people who knew David

638
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: during this time have posited that he was possibly suffering,

639
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: maybe not suffering, per se, from sex addiction. One person

640
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: who do him would describe him with less than charitable brio,

641
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: as screwing everything that moved and quite a bit that didn't. Uh.

642
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: And this got taken to its illogical conclusion one night

643
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: at his hotel when some creepy wheeler dealer in Hollywood

644
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: offered to procure a dead body for his pleasure, still

645
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: warm if he liked, David thankfully was deeply horrified and

646
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: rejected the indecent overture. I'm gonna guess it was Keim Fowley.

647
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna in my mind the imagined certainly all right,

648
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: getting into weird growth stuff. Let's tread carefully here. Speaking

649
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: of deeply upsetting moments, we would be remiss not to

650
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: mention the troubling claim of Laurie Maddox, who was a

651
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: member of the so called baby groupies I term I

652
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: don't like. They were a click of teenagers who hung

653
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: around with visiting musicians who roamed the sunset strip clubs

654
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: at night, and Maddox is probably most famous for her

655
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: very tempestuous relationship with led Zeppelins Jimmy Page while she

656
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: was still a minor. Prior to that, she said that

657
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: she lost her virginity to Bowie during the Ziggy Stardust

658
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: tour when she was fifteen years old and David was

659
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: twenty six. Now, her version of events has varied considerably

660
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: over the years and occasionally features historical impossibilities, leading some

661
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: to doubt her story, but she's repeated the general just

662
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: for decades and tells her tale with utmost fondness. She said,

663
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: I remember him looking like God. Who wouldn't want to

664
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: lose their virginity to David Bowie? And to this day,

665
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: Maddox claims that her experience with Bowie wasn't only consensual,

666
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: as or her words, but also a cherished memory, which

667
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: creates a thorny moral quandary for herself and also Bowie's fans. Now,

668
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: Maddox has always rebuffed those who sought to label her

669
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: a victim, and while she admits that her perception is

670
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: shifted following the rise of the Me Too movement, she

671
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: still denies that she was ever taken advantage of by Bowie,

672
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: and her quote is, we were friends. It was all

673
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: pure fun. It was a different time in rock and roll,

674
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: and in that era, some of the world's most famous

675
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: rock stars shamelessly engaged in relationships with young girls. Some

676
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: of these women have no regrets, and others remain scarred

677
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: by their experience and the time it was just an

678
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: accepted part of the Hollywood music scene. Um, I guess

679
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm glad that it's a positive memory for her. See,

680
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: Hollywood was, as you might expect, the scene of the

681
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: most extreme accesses on the Z Stardust tour, the Bowie entourage.

682
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: You stay at the Beverly Hills Hotel cost a hundred

683
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, including twenty dollars in room service bills alone.

684
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: And this is nineteen seventy two. That is that is,

685
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: it's a lot of money now, but that's serious money. Then. Yeah,

686
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: Childers basically says admirably, they basically bullied our CIA into

687
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: doing this. It was easier for a huge company of

688
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: like our c A to give us whatever we wanted,

689
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: then to listen to us, he says, and please again him,

690
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: please kill me. They didn't want us there at all,

691
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: So I just come in with this blonde hair flying

692
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: and say I need fourteen tickets to Kansas City and

693
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: they go, okay, fine, you got them, just go away.

694
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: It was a totally unheard of tactic, but it worked.

695
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: We lived the credit. I have no idea how much

696
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: we went into debt with our CIA, but of course

697
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: the philosophy was once you went so far into debt,

698
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: they didn't dare cut you off because then they'd never

699
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: make it back again. Yes, the tours sole concession to

700
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: cost cutting was a decree that groupies quote be sent

701
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: home without breakfast. Lee Childers, who was part of the

702
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: Warhol crowd that got absorbed into the Bowie MainMan management madness,

703
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: apparently doesn't know how much they went into debt. I

704
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: do um In all, the seventy one day tour cost

705
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: roughly seven thousand dollars a day and lost four hundred

706
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: and eighty five thousand dollars, which directly resulted in the

707
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: cancelation of our CIA records annual Christmas bonus to help

708
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: pay that off. Yeah, so, he says he arrived at

709
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills Hotel three or four days before the

710
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: entire day of the entourage forty eight people at the

711
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Hotel. Um. The funniest thing quote is that

712
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: the Roadies would go up to the Sunset Strip and

713
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: pick up tourists and bring them back to their rooms

714
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: and order dinner on room service, and then the Rhodes

715
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: would pay them for the dinner, which sounds like a

716
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: scam from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. All of our

717
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: expenses were paid for. So the Roadies would go to

718
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: the Strip three or four times a day, bring back

719
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: these tourists, sit them down in their room, and serve

720
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: them these fabulous lobster dinners with chocolate soufflet's, and then

721
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: charge the tourists for it. So the tourists were getting,

722
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: like I guess, essentially at a discount room service at

723
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills Hotel and the road and that was

724
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: pure profit for the Rohodies. Just an incredible series of events.

725
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: But at least they got a record out of it,

726
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: right Jordan's Yes Our Cia got a new album. It

727
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: was during Bowie's first American tour in late nineteen seventy

728
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: two that he wrote the bulk of what would become

729
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 1: a Latin saying, which Bowie would describe as Ziggy Goes

730
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,959
Speaker 1: to America Dispatches from his Alien alter ego on the Road.

731
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: It was basically a sequel album, although musically very different

732
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: thanks to the addition of pianists Mike Garson, who added

733
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: these incredible like cracked cabaret piano flourishes. He's an incredible player.

734
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,959
Speaker 1: And they recorded that album that winter of the winter

735
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: of seventy three, and it was due for release in

736
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: the spring of seventy three, around the same time that

737
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: the Ziggy Startus tour went to Japan. Yes, uh, much

738
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: like Tom Waits, David Bowie was big in Japan. Yes, yeah,

739
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: it's really funny. Ziggy Startus have been selling NonStop in Japan,

740
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: despite almost no promotional effort whatsoever. It remained in the

741
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: charts over there for two years. And I guess when

742
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: you think about it, the attraction was kind of understandable.

743
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: Their culture, the Japanese culture had been a major part

744
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: of Ziggy Startus DNA. David had been drawn to Japanese

745
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 1: styles and colors and textures while designing Ziki's costumes, creating

746
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: a look that in a quite literal sense, was alien

747
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: to Western audiences and most notable the outfits that Bowie

748
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: commissioned from the future fashion icon Kansai Yamamoto, who designed

749
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: the most famous Ziggy outfits, kimonos and the big kind

750
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: of bear like outfits and stuff. Yeah, he had his

751
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: first London show in ninety one and we had talked

752
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: a little bit about Ziggy's hair last time, and uh,

753
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: here's what Bowie had to say about Yamamoto's influence on

754
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: that quote. He had just unleashed all the kabuky and

755
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: No inspired clothes on London and one of his models

756
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: had the kabuky lion's mane on her head, this bright

757
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: red thing. And uh, Yamamoto would say of Bowie in

758
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: a bit of rye Japanese understatement, he has an unusual face.

759
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: He's neither man nor woman. I mean, to the Japanese,

760
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: Bowie was like a rocked up, larger than life reflection

761
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: of their own cultural heritage. And they illustrated this point

762
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: quite literally when they welcomed him to Japan with a

763
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,479
Speaker 1: massive ninety foot poster of his face, which I think

764
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: was inducted into the Guinness Book World Records as the

765
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: largest poster in the world ever at the time, was

766
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: hung from a Tokyo skyscraper. Um. Yeah, so two things,

767
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: one that no theaters and and o H. And probably

768
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: one of the visual touch stumps from that that's going

769
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: to be most familiar to Western audiences is that was

770
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: the inspiration for David Byrne's Big Suit. Um. They have

771
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: these very squared off wardrobe. I mean they' kimonos, but

772
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: they were very squared off looking stylized fashions and their productions,

773
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: and that is David Byrne had gotten into that on

774
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: the stop making sense eron his whole big Suit thing

775
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: was trying to look like a square with a tiny

776
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: little head. Yeah. Kabuki is really fascinating, uh, and this

777
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: whole tour allowed David to really delve more into it.

778
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: Anyone who doesn't know it's a Japanese theastrical style. The

779
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: word kabuki is a word that means song dance art,

780
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: which is, you know, kind of the perfect word to

781
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: describe what David was trying to do with a ziggy

782
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: Startus project. And it's characterized by elaborate makeup, garish costumes,

783
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: and physical expressionism, which you know, again, it's easy to

784
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: see why kabuki would appeal to David and in many ways,

785
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: it's the Eastern counterparts to the mime work that David

786
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: had done back in the sixties. He studied with a

787
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: very famous performer named Lindsay Kemp. And it's also interesting

788
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: because kabuki performers were exclusively male, so they played both

789
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: men and women, sometimes in the same scene, rapidly changing

790
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: costumes to express this change of personality. So for David,

791
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: a man who swapped personas like clothes as the mood

792
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: suited him, this was very compelling and his trip to

793
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: Japan had very marked influence on his performances. Because he

794
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: assumed that the Japanese audiences didn't understand his lyrics, he

795
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: delivered these incredibly physical performances, probably the most physically demanding

796
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: shows of his life up to that point, activating his

797
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: songs with his hands and his body. And due in

798
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: part to this physical exertion, he started performing part of

799
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: the show in what was basically a red sequin jockstrap,

800
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: and the sight of this whipped the crowd into a frenzy,

801
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: and at one point he was forced to barricade himself

802
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: in his dressing room for hours after the show because

803
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: the audience was more or less stampeding um so so

804
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: horny hern as you meditate on that. We'll be right

805
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 1: back with more too much information after these messages, rolling

806
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: right along. David Bowie famously retired Ziggy at the height

807
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: of this insanity, and the reasons for it are legion

808
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: so first and foremost, he's just physically dog diamond dog tired, uh,

809
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: year and a half of touring runs you ragged, especially

810
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: doing this extremely physical mime influenced stuff. His costumes are

811
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: literally coming apart of the seams. Um. You know, dog

812
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: It talks a lot about this. I'm sure people in

813
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: his circle talked a lot about this. But you know,

814
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: he was skin and bones at that point. He was

815
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: barely topping a hundred pounds and he was not a

816
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: short either. So yeah, during the gig at Radio City

817
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: Music Hall in February, he collapsed, uh, and he just

818
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 1: wanted to stay home, but DeFreeze booked him to play

819
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: sixty concerts in fifty two days across Britain and pitching

820
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: a third US tour in just under a year, plus

821
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: shows in China and Russia. And you know, you mentioned

822
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: a little bit about the he's not quite his drug

823
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: adult at this point, but dog. It does say each

824
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: successive week of this period saw him ingesting more cocaine

825
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: and less food. You understand why when you see sixty

826
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: concerts and fifty two days, that's insane. Yeah, it's insane.

827
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: The tour routing from this, it's like so many of

828
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: these guys, that's why they had vocal court surgery and

829
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: it's like why you know, he did lose a big

830
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: chunk of his upper register. Robert Plant. Yeah, if you

831
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: listen to that Glasgow show, he's not really doing. He

832
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: can still do like the falsetto stuff, but yeah, it's bad, dude.

833
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: Alton John had nodes surgery. Robert Plants. Robert Plant's voices

834
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: was shot by like, you know, like five years into Zeppelin,

835
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: Like I mean they were also smoking and doing you know,

836
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: stepped on cocaine. Uh Facet number two. The Spider Spiders,

837
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,959
Speaker 1: the spiders. The relationship with the Spiders are breaking down.

838
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons, but as always, it

839
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: comes back to filthy lucre and um, you know, David's

840
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 1: also distancing himself from this at this point, while also

841
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: getting closer to mc ronson the pay thing is wacky.

842
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: Garson is the most recent higher into the band, and

843
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: he got a much better rate than Boulder and Woodman's

844
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: because they were kind of grandfathered into a lower pay rate. Um,

845
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: They're on a plane one day and wood He is

846
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: paging through a magazine. He sees an ad for Lamborghini

847
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I wish, I wish, I I

848
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: love that car, and Carson says, why don't you get it?

849
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: You can afford it, And this leads into an awkward

850
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: moment where they compare their pay and uh, Woodman's told

851
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: the BBC in Garson was getting paid three times what

852
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: he was and I guess I just found this. He said.

853
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: The final straw was to freeze, saying to us, I

854
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: would rather pay the road crew more than you, so

855
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: that Batt'll do a number on the tight camaraderie of

856
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: peeing in pub sinks together. I mean, that seems like

857
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: it's the old manager trick of trying to like split

858
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: the singer from the band and have the singer go

859
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: solo so that you know there's less money than it

860
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: has to be divided up. So, I mean, it almost

861
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: seems like he's intentionally trying to to be as crass

862
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: right and so the seasons ascent Yeah and again, man,

863
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: I just can't be stressed how great those guys truly were,

864
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: just as such a great meat and potatoes rhythm section

865
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: that band is. Um Yeah. So things get so bad

866
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: that woodman Z and Trivor Bowlder the bassist are barely

867
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: talking to David and they almost they they boycotted shows

868
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: until mcronson basically begs them to come back. And speaking

869
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: of filthy Lucra, another problem for the Zig Startust tour

870
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: is that they stopped selling David. Well, maybe more Tony

871
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: Defreese than David had violated the first rule of show business,

872
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: which is always leave them wanting more. Bowie had taken

873
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: so many trips across England across the United States that

874
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: he basically eliminated demand to see him, and American seats

875
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: were going unsold. Promoters were worrying about making a return

876
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: of their investment. Plus the American tours never made any

877
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: money anyway. We mentioned that the first American tour was

878
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: almost half a million dollars in debt, so these tours

879
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: were basically a pr move. They increased David's fame but

880
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 1: decreased his bank account, and this has been to freeze

881
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: his plan from the start, but the spending was spiraling

882
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 1: out of control and tours were on average making back

883
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: less than a quarter of what they spent, and the

884
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: plus David stubborn refusal to fly meant that he can

885
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: only play a limited number of shows anyway, so there

886
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: was only so much that they could do to recoup

887
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: their expenses. Our Cia Records refused to underwrite another tour,

888
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: and main Man Management didn't have the money to mount

889
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: the tour themselves. They were hemorrhaging money to the tune

890
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: of a thousand pounds a week. They were losing, and

891
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: Bowie himself, for all of his growing fame, at this point,

892
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: he didn't have the money. There were times when they

893
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: would get back home after a tour and find that

894
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: the door to their home had been padlock shut by creditors,

895
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: and they would send their young son to stay with

896
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: friends just so they could be, you know, ensured that

897
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: he had regular meals and stuff. So Bowie didn't have

898
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: any money. And finally, another reason why David needed to

899
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: kill Ziggy was that, just purely from an artistic standpoint,

900
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: he felt stifled by Ziggy, and for the first time,

901
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: I think David had wanted success for the better part

902
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: of a decade. At this point finally realized the downside

903
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: to having a hit on this scale, and he was

904
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: basically a nobody. He could explore creatively to his heart's content.

905
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: Now with these fans, there was an expectation and expectation

906
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: as the artist arch enemy. He would later say, I

907
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: felt for the first time and the only time, that

908
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: I was working for someone else. And his Ziggy start

909
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: Us follow up, A Laddin Saying, was basically a sequel,

910
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,479
Speaker 1: and David hated to repeat himself creatively, and this time

911
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: he ceded to label pressure in popular demand that he

912
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: made this album that was very similar to the sound

913
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: and style of Ziggy Startust. He created an alter ego

914
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: and it had completely taken over his life. It was

915
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: like a cancer. It just grew and grew and threatened

916
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: to kill the host audiences, journalists, label executives, even his

917
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: own entourage. They all wanted Ziggy, not David Jones. So

918
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: David just simply played Ziggy at all times, and it

919
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: really messed with his mental state. He became lost in

920
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: the fantasy. He was insulated from a normal daily life

921
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: by his coterie of handlers. The security guards and all

922
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: the sycophants who to freeze kind of put in place

923
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: specifically to make him feel like a star. And now

924
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: he just was treated like this alien who was in

925
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: constant need of protection. And as a result, David to

926
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: be blunt lost touch with reality, and he gave a

927
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: quote in later years, the doppelganger and my self, we're

928
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: starting to become one and the same person. Then you

929
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: start on the trail of chaotic psychological destruction. So it

930
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: was really a case of David phasing out Ziggy before

931
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: Ziggy phased out him, and so David decided to kill

932
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: him off or retire him, which was better to keep

933
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: his options open, And it really seemed like the perfect

934
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: solution to all of David's personal and professional problems because

935
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: in the short term it would excuse him from all

936
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: the upcoming toward dates, which he was too tired to do. Anyway,

937
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: we're also shaping up to be a financial disaster poorly attended.

938
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: By canceling these dates for creative reasons and not economic ones,

939
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: he could save face and not look like a failure,

940
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: and it actually would do quite the opposite. It would

941
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: bolster his reputation as an unclassifiable artistic enigma, because who

942
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: else would abandoned their star making persona. It made him

943
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: look like a daring and adventurous creator rather than some

944
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: guy who was just exhausted and overexposed. So the whole

945
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: retirement idea a stroke of public relations genius because it

946
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: offered David creative freedom and the well deserved rest. The

947
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: Beatles had retired from the road in nineteen sixty six

948
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: at the peak of their career, so why not David.

949
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: The one person who objected to David retiring ironically was

950
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: not ironically but just interestingly, was Bob Dylan. Uh. Dylan

951
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: talked about this on an episode of his Theme Time

952
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: radio show. In recent years, he said, David told every

953
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: I can't can you do a Bob Dylan? David told

954
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: everyone he was gonna retire after the Ziggy Strotist tour.

955
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: Remember that maybe that I told him not do it.

956
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: He sounds like the crypt keeper these days, though, because

957
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: he's such a chain smoker. So I can't imagine Dylan

958
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: and Ziggy, shall we say, interacting in this stage. But yeah,

959
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: I guess Dan told him not a motorcycle, So yeah,

960
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: but I guess for not the last time, but we

961
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: didn't listen. So arrangements are made aid for the final bow,

962
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: which would take place on the last day to the tour,

963
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: which is, you know, one of the better ones, the

964
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: sold out gig at the Hammersmith Odeon on July three,

965
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: ninety three. The plan was top secret, kept strictly between

966
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: David and De Frieze. Not even Angie was told about it,

967
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: and neither was half the band. Ronson was tipped off,

968
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: but he has said at one point in the end

969
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: it was almost the last minute decision, but Woody and

970
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: Trevor were not UM after nearly three years of just

971
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: being thickest thieves. Uh. They were summarily dismissed on stage.

972
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: Nowadays you get called into HR. Back in the day,

973
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: they would have just done it to you on stage.

974
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: Uh D. A Penna Baker second deal in connection did

975
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: don't look back UM was hired to document the proceedings.

976
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 1: At one point they sent the famous Rolling Stones mobile

977
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: recording studio and I this must have been insane. Penna

978
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: Baker apparently had signs posted around the Hammersmith Odeon that

979
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: told the crowd to bring flash cameras and take as

980
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: many photos as they possibly could good lord, can you

981
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: imagine being in a sold out Hammersmith odeon with many, many,

982
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: many many people in the crowd having flash and cameras. Yeah,

983
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 1: imagtion being on stage with that and high on cocaine

984
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: and wearing a jockstrap. Talk about a stressful show, I mean,

985
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: sold out hometown gig, recording a live album, incredibly famous

986
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:28,919
Speaker 1: documentary in filming you. David was understandably very stressed out

987
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: before the show. And there's this really interesting story from

988
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: a woman named Julie, and she confirmed it to me

989
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: when I was doing this Bowie podcast. She had tickets

990
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 1: to what would become known forever more as the Ziki

991
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: Starts Farewell concert when she was just thirteen, and before

992
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: the show, in amongst all the teenage Bowie clones outside,

993
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: she spotted the real thing pacing outside the venue. I

994
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: totally alone. No one spotted him because I guess everyone's

995
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: dressed like David Bowie. It's almost like awere's waldo thing.

996
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: It's like, oh wait a minute, that's the real one.

997
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 1: So she approached him and was really just gonna go say,

998
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, high and offer words of praise and thanks.

999
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: But according to her, he started to break down, and

1000
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: he'd fled his dressing room a few moments before just

1001
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: to get some peace outside, and he just started unloading

1002
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: on this young girl, saying that he was worried that

1003
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: he was going crazy, he didn't know who he was anymore,

1004
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: his marriage was going wrong, his finances were a mess.

1005
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: It was such a funny little private moment between Bowie

1006
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: at this critical juncture in his career and this teenage fan.

1007
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: And then he spots some roadies looking for him and

1008
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 1: he bounds off inside, which must that must been terrifying.

1009
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: He won a moment of peace and you see these

1010
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: presumably huge road manager people off stalking out looking for you.

1011
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: So he runs back inside and watches his fans enter

1012
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: the theater from the balcony like some fascist dictator. But yeah,

1013
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: as you mentioned the rhythm section, Woody Woodman's and Trevor

1014
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: Boulder found out on stage that they were fired. It

1015
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: was just before the trade show closer Rock and Roll Suicide,

1016
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: and David gave a little moment on stage where he

1017
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: thanked the road crew in the band, and you can

1018
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: see him in the footage almost imperceptibly paused before plunging

1019
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: the knife into his most successful creation and into the

1020
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: backs of some of his closest associates. He said, of

1021
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: all the shows in this tour, this particular show remained

1022
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: with us longest because not only is it the last

1023
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: show of the tour, but it's the last show we'll

1024
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 1: ever do. Thank you. And the spiders are all looking

1025
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: at each other as they're starting the song, like wait,

1026
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: what what did he just say? And it's worth thought

1027
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: rock and roll suicide long song, and they're all kind

1028
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: of looking at each other, mouthing at each other like

1029
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: what wait, we do we just get sacked? And what

1030
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: women's He later said that he considered storming off in

1031
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: the middle of the song, but managed to keep his

1032
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: composure to play through. But after taking their final balance,

1033
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: they looked in vain for David to get some kind

1034
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: of an explanation, and according to them, he was nowhere

1035
00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: to be found. I can't he could be brutal when

1036
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: he was done with people. He was done. I know.

1037
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: We talked in the prior episode about what an incredible

1038
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: music fan he was and if he liked your music,

1039
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: he remained a fan for life, as as sweet as

1040
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: he could be to the artist that he loved and admired.

1041
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: When he was done, it was like flicking a switch.

1042
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: He was done. Yeah, I have no segue for that.

1043
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: But Jeff Beck was there? Oh yeah, can have Jeff

1044
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: Beck played guitar on on two of these songs. Uh. Yeah.

1045
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: The movie didn't get released until eighty three, and he,

1046
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: I guess Beck that'st not to be in it because

1047
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: he felt out of place, which is kind of funny. Uh.

1048
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: Other notes, Marlena Dietrich and Ringo Starr we're both in

1049
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: the audience. I think Lulu too. Yeah. I hope they

1050
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: were all there together. It's a fun little trip down.

1051
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: The press reaction to David's news was monumental, and I

1052
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: had heard, actually that the Frieze and David had actually

1053
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: tipped off a few key journalists to prep stories so

1054
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: that they would go Actually, I heard that the story

1055
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: was actually going to press before the concert was even over.

1056
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: Uh so yeah, there's all sorts of stories about how

1057
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: far in advance this was prepped. But the news when

1058
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: it was over and done was huge, especially because of

1059
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: a press release that David's management company put out that

1060
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: dramatically said that David was leaving the concert stage forever

1061
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: and it would take weeks before it kind of became

1062
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: clear that they weren't talking about David himself, but Ziggy

1063
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: Ziggy was the one that wasn't going to perform again,

1064
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: And he said he was making this pivot to movies.

1065
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: He was going to adapt Robert Hinman's Stranger in a

1066
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: Strange Land. Three years later he starts in The Man

1067
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: Who Fell to Earth. It really does seem like they

1068
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: were positioning him for a pivot to film, you know.

1069
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: Even even the one press release made Man said that

1070
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: David Bowie will be writing the script for his own future.

1071
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: But as sad as it was for his band mates

1072
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: and for all the legion of fans who love Ziggy Stardust,

1073
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: Bowie was free all his obligations performance wise. We're all

1074
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: up in smoke. A year almost to the day after

1075
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: his star making appearance on Top of the Pops, David

1076
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: had carried out the self immolation foretold and the Ziggy

1077
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: Stardust narrative. It was a real life rock and roll suicide.

1078
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: Through the act of killing Ziggy, David put the master

1079
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: stroke on his most enduring work of art. And I

1080
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: just find this really funny. For years, Bowie apparently wouldn't

1081
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: look at tapes of himself performing as Ziggy Stardust, but

1082
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: when he finally did, he thought they were hilarious. And

1083
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: I love that, And I just think that's a perfect

1084
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: spot to end, because people forget how damn funny he was.

1085
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: And you know, I mentioned this in the first episode.

1086
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: It's funny. David was not one of my go to

1087
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: people growing up, but he always cropped up in my

1088
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: life in very strange ways. The first article I was

1089
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: ever asked to write for Rolling Stones about Bowie and

1090
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: my heart asked me to do this Bowie biography podcast,

1091
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: And there's some strange force that keeps bringing him to me,

1092
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: and that seems to be the case when I spoke

1093
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: to numerous Bowie super fans for the show I was

1094
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: working on. There's something almost supernatural there. So it felt

1095
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: right to honor the fiftieth anniversary of his breakthrough with

1096
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: all we got this two part episode. Plus, like I

1097
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: said also in the last episode, Bowie people were the best.

1098
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: The Bowie fans were the most kind, supportive people, and

1099
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to do right by them, so I salute

1100
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: them and I salute the Starman two. With this episode,

1101
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun. Well, we had a

1102
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: lot of fun because it's not only the last show

1103
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: of this Bowie episode, it's the last show will ever do.

1104
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: Just this ain't a podcast, This is suicide. Thanks for listening, folks.

1105
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan run Talk. We'll catch

1106
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: you next time. Too Much Information was a production of

1107
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown

1108
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: and Jordan Runt Talk. The supervising producer is Mike Johns.

1109
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: The show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan run

1110
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: and Alex Heigel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and

1111
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,919
Speaker 1: the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard,

1112
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts

1113
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: and I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

1114
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.