WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Miranda Rights Work 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.840 M Hey everyone, it's me your buddy Josh, and for 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.760 this week's s Y s K Selects, I've chosen for 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.360 you guys, my buddies, how Miranda Rights Work. It's a 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:15.320 pretty great episode. It's full of stuff like irony, interesting history, 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:20.119 uh and sometimes unpalatable but important civil rights. So I 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.759 hope you all enjoy it. It's one of my favorites. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.480 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:41.120 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:46.440 Clark and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and um this 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.479 stuff you should know. Jerry just told us right before 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.360 she pressed record, don't forget to be clever. What is 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:59.600 that about? I don't know, man, I pressure I'm a 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.280 little to own off right now. Well, I think maybe 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.240 because you said Miranda rights sort of named after the 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.679 Sex in the City character. Is that what you're talking about? 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.160 That was like forty five minutes ago. It's a call back. 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.600 So I guess that was clever in Cherry's book. That's 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.520 the thing. Like, I didn't even consider that clever, you know, 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.959 juvenile maybe so Miranda from Sex in the City. So 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.399 what was your response to that one? I don't remember 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:28.840 what I said. I thought it was fairly clever. We'll 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.200 just skip over that. You said you have the right 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:37.160 to remain fabulous. Oh yeah, that's right. So that's the 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.880 recap of a conversation we had a little while ago. Everybody, well, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.880 people always say that I want to know what happens 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.880 behind the scenes. Just tom foolery. There you go, Chuck. Yes, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.080 I know that. Uh, you and I have both been 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.840 arrested many times, and we've done some time in the 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.240 stir and all that, so we know what miranda rights are. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:59.600 Not true, But the average person also knows what Miranda 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.360 rights are because they're so ubiquitous on every cop show, 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.400 every lawyer show, every every show. I think they show 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.400 up on like e er, it's still on, it's on, right. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.840 I have no idea that I'm like season seven. I 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.360 have no idea. I don't think it is. I had 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.520 a pretty good long run, sure, But Miranda rights are 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.720 just this thing that have become totally ingrained in our culture. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.000 We can all say it, well, let's say it together. 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.600 You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.200 can and will be used against you in a court 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.359 of law. But hey, buddy, don't fret. You have the 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.440 right to an attorney, and if you cannot afford one, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.760 one will be appointed to you. Right. And then over time, 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:39.839 apparently some agencies have added and if you waive these rights, 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:41.800 you can invoke them at any time. Yeah, I hadn't 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.280 heard that one. They know, they hadn't made it to 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.160 TV yet, really, right, Yeah, you know the goes like 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.120 short and sweet. I'm not even gonna tell you that. Yeah, Castle, 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.680 he's all business. Yeah. Is he a cop though? And 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.840 I think he's a private investigator, although I'm not sure. 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.600 So he wouldn't have to mirandize anybody, but he just 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:04.200 cast so he he does. I've never seen it. I 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.680 love Nathan Fillon though, Oh who doesn't. Yeah, he's a 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.320 nice guy. But this idea that Miranda rights are. You know, 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.640 they're everywhere and everybody knows them and knows what they 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.440 You know that they exist. But the first of all, 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.520 the case behind him, I think is probably unknown, and 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.920 then secondly, like what they're designed to do, really, the 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.640 real nuts and bolts of it, I hadn't. It hadn't 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:27.840 really occurred to me, even though it's pretty self evident 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.440 when you think about it. Yeah, and it seems really straightforward, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.000 but it can't get a little tricky, uh, which will 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.000 discuss how that happens. Well. So the idea of the 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:41.520 Miranda rights is fairly recent, um, goes back to nineteen 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:49.360 sixty six, the case called Miranda versus Arizona, the Arizona Yeah, yeah, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.440 which is like the legal profession came and be bothered 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.320 to include the s when they abbreviate versus. You know. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.320 And we should also point out that, um, it wasn't 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.040 just this one case. Uh, it was Miranda v. Arizona 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.240 gets all the press because the name Miranda, but it 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.760 was actually four cases that they consolidated. Um. But we 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.440 want to give Vignera v. New York West over the 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.800 United States, and California v. Stewart their due as being 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.440 part of this thing. And they basically all the cases 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:28.320 were similar in that them there were confessions after interrogations, um, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.800 and those confessions were used against these various people. Right. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.560 But we're with Miranda though. The lawyers of these um, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.880 well not just us, I mean everybody does. It's called 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.880 it's the Miranda case, the Miranda laws, the Miranda rights. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:49.440 You're miranda ized, you know. Um. But the the the 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.080 whole point behind these In all of the cases, the 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:56.920 that the complainants had was that they're the people who 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.240 committed these crimes and made these confessions, and we're are 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.960 convicted for him. We're not aware that they didn't have 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.239 to talk to the police. Right, And this is actually 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.320 the Miranda case goes back to nineteen sixty six. But 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:14.000 the American right guaranteed by the Bill of Rights in 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.360 the constitution Fifth Amendment to to refrain from self incrimination. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.360 That goes back to, like you said, the Fifth Amendment 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.760 basically says that you don't have to tell on yourself. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.600 The cops can't make you talk, is what that is. Yeah, 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:32.640 but until nineteen sixty six they I guess you just 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:37.360 needed to be you know, up on your constitutional knowledge. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.320 And then in nineteen sixty six they eventually will get 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.160 to the case they said, you know, maybe we should 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.640 start telling people this when we arrest them. Um. So 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.239 let's go back in time to nineteen sixty three. Uh 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:54.360 in Phoenix, Arizona, UM, the cops picked up Ernesto Miranda 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.120 for questioning and a kidnapping and rate case. His car 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.880 was spotted near of the scene of the crime. He 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.880 was called in. When he got there, he was like, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.400 I didn't do this. Man like, he was completely cooperative. 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.400 It's like, I didn't do any of this. Two hours later, 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.880 an interrogation they had he was not identified in a lineup, 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.320 but the cops said, the girl identified you in the 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.279 lineup and he went, oh, well, I guess I think 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.120 his direct quote was, well, I guess I ought to 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:27.000 tell you about it then, And so the cops lied 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.240 to him. And this is a clear case of you know, 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.480 like not doing things the right way. Well, this no, 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.360 the Supreme Court is upheld the use of deception by 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.000 police in interrogation. They can lie there their tails off 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.080 to you, right, but not if you're not Miranda. I 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.920 That was the point is he didn't know that he 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.640 could just be quiet and not say anything. So he 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.080 just volunteered the information, signed a written confession. And that's 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.520 the whole point. And that's what the justices in the 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.520 Supreme Court who heard the Miranda case and all the 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.760 other cases that combined to make it um we're getting 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.840 at was that you, when you are being interrogated by 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.640 the place you're in their custody, they are allowed to 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.839 use deception. They are allowed to UM use all sorts 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:12.920 of tactics to core course, you two talk, But if 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.080 you're not aware that you don't have to talk, then 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:21.160 what you're saying amounts to an involuntary confession and hence 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.400 shouldn't be able to be used against you because you 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.920 have a constitutional right against self incrimination. If you're informed 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.720 that you have that right, then you are making the 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.760 decision to go ahead and confess against yourself and you're 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.120 waiving that right, yes, and that can be used in 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.760 court exactly, so they give you the option essentially. So 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:42.880 this is what the whole case was about. UM. In 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.920 ninety six, like we said, the Supreme Court heard this 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.680 case and ruled he was convicted we should say, right 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.880 based on that confession and sentenced to thirty years I believe, 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.960 and that the Supreme Court case was part of an 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.640 appeal that's right from that three years later they heard 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.640 this case. Yeah, and apparently, like the the other three 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.920 people probably represent even more than just those four cases total. 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.480 Usually when the Supreme Court here's something, there's a lot 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.040 of it going on in the courts. Yeah, yeah, um, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.200 And they said in a five to four decision, you 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:19.520 know what the the suspect has to be read his rights, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:24.480 which one now'll cause miranda rights. Yeah, and they specifically said, um, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.720 prosecution may not use statements stemming from custodial interrogation of 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.520 the defendant unless it did demonstrates the use of procedural 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:37.200 safeguards effective to secure the privilege against self incrimination. But 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.880 the key there is custodial interrogation and established a couple 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.880 of things. Is one, you can't self incriminate from the 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.360 moment you're in custody. Um, So like it's not like 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.600 you're on trial or something, and that any confession is 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.719 uh involuntary basically. And again the reason that they're differentiating 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.120 between in custody and not in custody is because once 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.400 you're in custody, the cops can do things like lie 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.600 to you or something like that. That's right, um. And 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.559 in custody is those the three key words taken into 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.920 custody or is where all the gray area has been 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.040 since then and still is today. Yeah, Because they were 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.200 pretty clear in their ruling, like, yeah, this person has 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.840 to be read their rights, and how let's even print 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.440 some cards for police officers to carry around with them 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.520 so they can read off of the card if they 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:30.920 have to. Yeah, and we should point out that Miranda. 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.160 Actually they retried him without his confession and his girlfriend 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.880 um said he he confessed to me, so that was 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.160 used in court. So he was found guilty again since 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.760 the twenty thirty years again, paroled after five years and 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.599 then sold those little Miranda cards with his autograph on 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.880 him for a while for like a buck fifty. And 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.600 then he was stabbed to death in a bar fight 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.880 in the nine Yes, and the suspect who stabbed him 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.080 was read his Miranda rights and so he never talked 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:04.240 and he walked. Really, oh my god, the irony. It's 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.160 definitely irony. Wow, And like the the truest form of 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:35.080 the word. That's right, man. So custodial interrogation is is 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.280 one of the keys here. Um in custody is where 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:43.000 it gets a little hinky. Like if you're in the 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:44.800 back of a police car and you get your handcuffs on, 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.080 then you're in custody, right, that's pretty straightforward. Or even 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.800 if you don't have handcuffs on, if you're if the 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.079 cops lock you in the car and you're you're are 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.080 it's understood by you that you're not allowed to get out. 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.640 You're in police custody. Right. The official definition of custody 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.480 and the mirand decision is quote unquote denial of complete 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.120 freedom of action. But that's open to interpretation. You know 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.199 it is because, um, you know, if you're being if 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.200 you're handcuffed and you're putting the back of a locked 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.480 police car, you're obviously denied freedom of action. You obviously 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.600 have to be mirandized. Right, you can bang your head 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.160 on the little clear glass in front of you, right, 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.520 What were you saying in police chases like the the 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.840 you can defecate or urinate or whatever, do whatever you want, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.959 but that is not freedom of action. Um. It's been 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:38.000 brought up though that because of the um the legal 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.239 authority that cops represent with their uniforms and their outwardly 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.719 worn guns and you know, tasers, all that stuff, their 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.920 mirrored sunglasses, that they have some sort of um, they 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:54.320 project a sort of just talking to a cop, a 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.280 person might feel detained. Yeah, it's an implied Um. Yeah, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.360 I think it's like an implied detention. Like if the 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.360 cop came to my front door and said he had 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.320 some questions for me regarding a crime. I don't think 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.880 I would feel even though it's within my right, I 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:10.800 don't think I would feel like I was able to 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:12.800 say no, actually, I'm going to go to the grocery 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.719 store right now, right exactly, and just walk past them 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.040 and get in my car, or even I'm gonna have 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.920 to ask you guys to leave, which again you said 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.000 it is your right to do. They haven't placed you 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:27.040 into custody, but you you don't have to be Miranda's 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.040 in this situation because you can tell the cops to leave. 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.079 If you are in an interrogation room and you tell 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.920 the cops to leave, they're not gonna listen to you. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.040 If they're on your front doorstep and you tell them 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.839 to leave, they are supposed to listen to you, and 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.640 because of that, you're not being you. You have freedom 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:44.199 of movement. You can go back in your house, you 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.560 can go to the grocery store. You can tell the 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.000 cops to leave. So, even though the perception might be 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.840 that you are being detained by the cops just by 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:52.560 their very presence, and you don't feel like you can 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.160 tell them to leave, the law isn't this. This law 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.679 isn't designed to let you be slippery, right, like a 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.480 trap fix stop, for instance, is a is a kind 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.800 of a not weird. But if you get stopped by 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.559 a cop and you'd say, um, you know, I've got 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.040 five pounds of weed in my trunk by the way, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.960 mr officer, you caught me, that can be used in 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.040 court because that is a non custodial situation, right, which 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.280 is weird. Though I didn't realize that a traffic stop 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.760 is considered non custodials. That mean you can just drive 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:31.840 off because then you know, then that's a custodial situation. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.680 So does that mean that you can drive off legally 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.280 or does that mean that the courts just it is 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.679 a gray area that the courts of That means you're fleeing. 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:45.760 That means you're evading, evading what arrests a traffic stop? Okay, well, 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.040 then that means you can't leave, you don't have freedom 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.120 of movement. Therefore, that's a custodial situation and you should 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.760 have to be mirandized when you're pulled over. Well, hey, 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.360 you talked to the Supreme Court, my friend, I've been trying. 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.000 But I do have a question if there are any 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:05.040 um constitutional lawyers or any kind of lawyer really who 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.839 knows what they're talking about. Defense attorney, Um, I'm very 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.760 curious about that, Like, are you allowed legally to just 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.240 drive off once a cop pulls you over since it's 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.320 a non custodial situation. My answer is no. I would 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.520 imagine no too, because every time you do, they well, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.040 because you have committed a crime and the in the 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:29.120 cop has has pulled you over. Maybe uh, I don't know. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:30.920 I mean that's where the language gets tricky. You're not 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:34.960 in custody, maybe you're temporary detained a bit of there's 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.240 some specific language that allows for this. And I would 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.440 never like argue this with a cop who pulled me over. 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.560 That's not what I'm getting at. I'm just genuinely, like, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.600 I'm genuinely curious. If you can't drive off, then how 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.600 is it a non constidious situation? That's my question. Yeah, 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.640 that's a good question. Um, but that shows the slippery 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.680 slope in the gray area, you know, right, And like 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.400 you said, I mean if you say, hey, I've got 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.760 five pounds of weed in my trunk and the cop 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.360 never mirandized you, and then after they says, well, you're 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.760 under arrest, and then he mirandizes you and you shut up. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.800 From that point on, they can still use that initial 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.560 exact confession because it was non custodial. Yeah. Uh. And 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.720 here's the other thing. A lot of people, well not 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.240 a lot of people, some folks may be confused by 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.160 if you're not read your Miranda rights, then you just 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.560 you get released or whatever. Right, not true at all. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.720 That just means that they can't use what you have 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.800 said in court, and any ancillary, uh incriminating evidence that 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.600 came from that confession can't be used either, right, Like 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.240 if they arrest you and you say, they tell you 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.120 you're placed under arrest, and then they're like, so, um, 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.520 we're going to get some tacos rather than here's what 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.280 we have to tell you about your Miranda rights, And 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.400 then you say, I've got a bunch of weed on me, Like, 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.280 they can't use that confession about the weed two against 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.880 you because you hadn't been mirandized. You've been told that 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.800 the cops wanted tacos. Yeah. I wonder what keeps someone 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:06.840 from voluntarily talking about evidence so it won't be able. Yeah, man, 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:12.600 we are criminal minds right here. I'm sure there's workarounds 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.440 for all this. You're like Mandy Patinken and like the 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.120 rest of the cast right here at this table and Entel. No, 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.800 it is any in Criminal Minds. I don't know. He's 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.600 in the Homeland. I watch that. He's also in the 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.800 Prince's Pride. He's in Nego Montoya Monday thinkin. He was 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.720 also the alien cop in Alien Nation. A lot of 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.600 people don't know that. Jimmy Cohn, you never saw Alien Nation. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:37.880 That was that good. That was a great movie. It 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.120 always looked silly to me. I'll tell you what when 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.520 you're it is a great movie. Yeah, it was cruel. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.400 Did you see that one? Yeah? It was nothing like 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.200 I had, like a good plot and it was like 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.600 to live in Die in l A with aliens right 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.520 or enemy Mine on Earth? Yeah, I never saw that one. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.080 It was. It was just kind of the same deal. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.800 It's like it's Lucas at Jr. In an alien suit 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:05.080 and Dennis Quaid, right, Uh, Randy quick, Dennis Quaid. It 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.600 definitely wasn't Randy. It wasn't like banking Dennis Quaid. I'm 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.000 pretty sure. All right, So Miranda rights here is the 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.960 requisite meandering tangent. Uh So there's an important thing we 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.639 haven't covered yet. Um, in regards to Miranda rights. And 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.439 it was recently got a lot of press with the 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.240 bombings in Boston, and that is the public safety exception 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.439 UM in the case of the the Boston bombing. What 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:36.320 was his name, Uh, Joe Car Sarnia. Okay, so jos 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.480 Car Joe Car did Joe Car. There's a lot of 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.960 ways to say it that are wrong, and then there's 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:43.760 one right one which I may have had in there. 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.960 So he is in the hospital. They everyone knows what happened. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.320 You know that the bombings went off. The one brother 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.320 was killed, they caught the other one, uh, and he 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.320 was wounded. And so he was in a hospital and 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.840 they had what they called an urgent public safety interview 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.760 in the hospital with out reading him his rights. He's 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.560 asking for an attorney. They're like, you're not getting an attorney. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.800 Why why don't you tell us what's going on? And 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.719 he did, Yeah, he did. He confessed to the bombing. 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.760 He told them about um possible other bombs. I think 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.320 that's how they found out that the apartment was possibly 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.919 rigged with explosives, or at very least there were explosives 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.960 in his apartment, his brother's apartment, UM. And they found 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.920 all this out by denying him his right to keep quiet. Yeah, 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.840 and a lot of people were saying, well, you guys 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.480 just blew the case. You guys, why didn't you mirandize him? 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.320 And it was because of this public safety exemption that 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.600 came about, um that the Supreme Court ruled on in Yeah, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:48.080 New York v. Quarrels. Benjamin Quarrels was in custody at 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.919 a grocery store in nineteen eighty and rape victim had 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.080 identified him, and the cop frist them and said, hey, 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.840 you've got an empty gun holster. Here is there a 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.080 gun nearby? And he was like, yeah, it's right over there. 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.000 Cop Win got the gun unloaded. It obviously secured the scene. 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:09.520 And that became a court case because he was the 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.960 gun evidence was thrown out. An appellate court agreed, and 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.199 then later on the Supreme Court said, no, you know 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:20.400 what that's called, Uh, you know, securing the scene. That's 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.320 a public safety exception. You can't have a gun loaded 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.560 gun in there. You can't have bombs waiting to go 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.480 off potentially somewhere else. So forget the mirandizing. You need 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.080 to secure everything, right and um, once that once that 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.240 threat to public safety is secured, then you have to 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.800 mirandize them. Yeah, in which the Boston case, he just 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.680 shut up after that, so too late. Yeah, exactly, the 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.560 Feds had gotten all they wanted out of him and 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.359 were like sure, whatever, And apparently a judge ordered the 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.000 FEDS to mirandize the guy after like two days of 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.320 this questioning. I bet that was a pretty satisfying reading 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.600 of the rights at that point. I'm sure, you know, 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.199 because they knew they were covered. But I mean, this 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.200 is such a gestapo tactic too, like, well, this question 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:02.960 you about everything we want for two days until the 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.200 judge ordered us to mirandize. That means that some attorneys 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.760 are going to have to go through all two days 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.720 of that confession to pick out what at what point 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.320 the public safety exemption was basically exhausted. And I mean, 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.320 you can argue that any question that has to do 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:23.200 with possible future terrorist attacks is you know, preventing or 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.400 protecting public safety. Yeah, but it's just like, uh, I mean, 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.080 I don't know, it definitely skirts the spirit of the law, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.280 I would think. Yeah, And I found an article written 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:38.840 by the guy who originally I think wrote the Quarrels 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.240 verdict and he he was like, you know what, in 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.880 the case with the Boston bomber, you they shouldn't even 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.199 done that anyway, because there was so much evidence they 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.000 didn't even need these confessions, and it was in the 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.080 true spirit of trying to secure public safety to find 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.520 if there was other explosives. But from that point on, 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.239 they're like, it was completely unnecessary because the guy was 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.879 convicted just from you know, the evidence was so strong 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.360 that they didn't even need that confession exactly. So like 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.120 after they found out about the bombs or whatever, whether 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.600 their word weren't bombs, then it seems to me like 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.439 the public safety exemption would have been exhausted and they 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.919 would have had to have mirandized him. It's a slippery slope. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.040 But I mean, it's not like the CIA has to have, 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.719 you know, admissible evidence in court to go after all 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:28.040 the people that um Joe kar named, if he named 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:33.120 anybody or whatever, he gave up, you know. So it's 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.320 just I don't know, Yeah, I'm coming to trust like 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:43.240 Obama's security policies like less and less real. That's my opinion. No, 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.960 I get it. It's it's a it's a very fine 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.400 line between like, hey, this guy's a terrorist and get 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.480 that information or people still have their human rights right exactly. 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.480 And it's such a difficult thing to to swallow to 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:00.639 the concept that some little punk who him and his 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.399 brother blew people up in Boston and took people's lives 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.160 and legs and that they did this, that the concept 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.560 that they have any rights whatsoever is pretty unpalatable. But 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.840 we as a society have decided that, yeah, you do 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.200 have rights. If you're an American system, you have certain 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:20.560 rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.639 of Rights and and court interpretation of those rights. And 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:29.399 that's the law of the land. And um, I guess 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:35.879 to just routinely skirt around those whenever, whenever it's determined 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.320 to be called for by whoever is in charge and power. 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:44.600 That's that's equally impalatable. Impalatable to me because also, um 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:49.119 you know, the courts judged a criminal suspect when you 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:52.280 invoke the public safety exemption. It's not that that person 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:56.119 doesn't have any rights, it's that the safety of the 0:22:56.160 --> 0:23:00.439