WEBVTT - Rich Thanks to Racism 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.800 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woke F Daily with 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.239 me your girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Long Island Bunker. 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.680 You know, I often say to you that you need 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:23.680 to take a break so that you do not have 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.960 a breakdown. And with all of the compacted crises that 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.440 we are dealing with at this time and making the 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:36.280 march to midterms, there never seems like the right time 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.680 to take a break. But I say that you have 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.080 to make that time. And so for me, dear friends 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.120 here on woke F, I am going to be taking 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.800 a much needed vacation so that I can rest and 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.440 recharge as we head into what I believe is going 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.960 to be one of the craziest falls we've ever seen. 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:04.000 I have left you with eight amazing episodes that we 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.319 have recorded back in twenty twenty one with some of 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:14.959 the most thoughtful, engaging and insightful commentary that looks at 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:20.200 our politics, our spiritual nature, our emotional well being, and 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.960 a look inside frankly with some of the guests that 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.440 we are bringing to all of you. These conversations have 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:33.759 been heard by our amazing Patreon supporters who get video 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:39.640 episodes every single day. Because of their belief and financial 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.520 support of woke F throughout the years, and so I'm 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.840 really excited to bring all of you across all the 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.639 platforms that you listen to woke F daily on these 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:55.480 episodes and these interviews that I think will be enticing 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.560 to all of you. They hit on all of the 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:02.600 major topics that we consistently discuss here on woke F, 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:08.680 from racism to gender inequality, to police misconduct to wealth inequality, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.600 which my God, and the need and the need and 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:16.320 the need upmost for spiritual connection and wellness practices that 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:22.560 allow us to successfully maneuver all of the things that 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.359 have been thrown at us over the past couple of years. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.040 And so, friends, while I will be out from the show, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.640 I will not be out of sight for the next 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.120 several days, and so you can continue to follow me 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.280 on Instagram and on Twitter at D two Cents, D 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.639 E two c E n TF. Of course, I will 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.520 be dropping in with my two cents and you can 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.520 check me out on TikTok, where I'm sure certain that 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.040 I will drop a few videos in the next couple 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.880 of days, and there you can find me at Danielle 0:02:56.040 --> 0:03:01.160 Moody Underscore. I hope that you all enjoy these next 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:05.080 fantastic episodes that we have. Do drop your thoughts in 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.079 the comment section, do hit me up in the socials. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.960 Just don't draw my attention to anything that is terrible 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.000 because I'm taking a break from the news. But dear friends, 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.960 I really do hope that you enjoy these next eight 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:22.600 episodes and I will see you with brand new episodes 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:27.240 after Labor Day. Hey there, I want to tell you 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.080 about another podcast I think you'll love. The Brown Girl's 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.160 Guide to Politics, hosted by a Shanty Goehler, the president 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.560 of Emerge BGG, is the one stop shop for women 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.440 of color who want to hear and talk about the 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.200 world of politics. Join a Shanty this season as she 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.760 talks to incredible women of color who are changing the 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.400 face of politics and tackling some of the most important 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.240 issues facing the United States, from reproductive justice to voting rights, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.520 to climate change and more. Tune in every Tuesday wherever 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:58.840 you get your podcasts. It's no secret that the news 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.640 is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:07.240 podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca free Erantini. For 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.840 a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week, the 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.760 Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists to 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:15.800 break down the issues in a way that won't just 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.960 leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get the Bituation 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.960 Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and streaming on YouTube 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:29.880 and Twitch friends. I am so excited to welcome to 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.120 Wika affadaily for the first time. Jim Freeman, civil rights 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.960 lawyer and head of the University of Denver's Social Movement 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.320 Support Lab and the author of Rich Thanks to Racism, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:47.480 How the ultra wealthy got rich off of Racial justice. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.799 Let me see, Jim, one of the things that really 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.240 concern me as this pandemic has gone on is that 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:01.560 we have seen how much disparity there is in the 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.440 United States, like we have always known, right UM. But 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.280 when you see who is essential, who is not, who 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:14.200 is actually profiting off of this pandemic, and who needs 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.760 the twelve hundred dollars that uh that were that was 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.839 put together in the COVID nineteen relief plan that was 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.719 just passed by UM and signed by the Biden administration. 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.359 What comes up for you when you think about the 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.960 context of your book and how people have gotten rich 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.440 off of racism, Like this is not just a oh 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.000 like you say, this isn't just about educating people out 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.719 of racism. This is a policy. Well, then there's there's 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.640 a lot that comes up for me, as you might imagine. Um, 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.040 I mean, certainly, you know the you know how the 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:59.120 cashier at your local pharmacy is now recognized properly as 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.800 an essential worker, but yet we've never felt it appropriate 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.880 to pay that essential worker a living wage. Certainly that 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.120 comes up for me. But you know, generally, I mean, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:17.640 you know, I think this is really an acceleration of 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.880 a lot of the things I talk about in the 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:24.400 book and and and what that really is is, you know, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.440 it's very exciting that there are a lot of people now, 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:33.240 particularly after last summer, who started to recognize the urgency 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.000 to end systemic racism. And it's very exciting that lots 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.120 more people are joining this movement, joining these efforts. I mean, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.280 I think the movement that's being built right now can 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:47.039 can finally achieve that goal. But I wrote the book 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.400 because there's very little understanding of what and who stands 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.960 in the way of that. And it's a lot of 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.880 these dynamics that you're talking about Right, because I wanted 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.440 people to understand that the biggest reason why systemic racism 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.880 persists is that these dynamics pre COVID and during COVID, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.440 which are so devastating for so many people of color 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.880 and so many communities of color, are for a lot 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.880 of large corporations and Wall Street banks enormously profitable. They 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.920 are the biggest reason why we have these deeply unjust 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.160 policies on the books, and they're also heavily invested in 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.560 preserving and expanding racial inequities, which I refer to as 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.640 as strategic racism. So the book is really intended to 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.320 give people a roadmap of what it's going to take 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.720 to truly dismantle systemic racism, because while it's very doable, 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.360 there's still not enough people supporting racial justice efforts and 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.360 far too many people opposing them. And as you say, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.320 a lot of those people are getting even more wealthy 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:50.760 and more powerful as a results of this global pandemic. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.440 I mean, we're looking, you know. One of the things 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:58.000 that come up for me is a recent headline Jeff 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:03.200 Bezos right is now worth one hundred and forty three 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:09.000 billion dollars, and in the headlines, right, are the workers 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.120 that work in the Amazon factories, right, that have been 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.400 working around the clock to ship us all our packages 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.840 so that we could work from home, who don't have 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:23.080 proper healthcare, who don't have the ability to sue their 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:31.280 employer for unhealthy work environment. And yet he's the becoming 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.520 the richest and richest and richest. I mean, he's going 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.800 to probably reach at some point a trillion dollars in 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.400 net worth, and yet the people that work for him 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.600 can't afford to put food on the table. We see 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.960 these stories and we kind of just shrug Jim about it, 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.640 Like we get mad, and we're mad, and we're on 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.120 social media for a day or two, and then we 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.960 all go back to business as usual. How do you 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.760 sustain you think the outrage and the attention where the 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.839 tension needs to be due, which is that we have 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:09.040 a very wrong sized capitalistic structure that is based on 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.080 racism and injustice and ensuring that some people stay on 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.719 the bottom while other people stay on the top. How 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:20.800 do we sustain the attention and the outrage. Well, I 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.560 think a big part of it, I mean, you're absolutely right. 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.920 I mean I think a big part of it is 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:33.040 exposing the full circle of that injustice, right, because there 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.600 are there are a lot of people who are starting 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.600 to recognize the injustice of what of what you just said. 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:42.440 There are a lot of people who have for a 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.920 long time, obviously, but more and more people are recognizing 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.920 the injustice of what you just said. What I think 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.760 people didn't have much understanding of is how not only 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.440 are billionaires like that making a tremendous amount of money 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.720 off of people who aren't being paid a living wage, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.720 who can pay for, you know, all the things that 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:10.160 we should take as a given for you know, for 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.000 meeting people's basic human needs. Not only are they doing that, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:17.800 they're then taking their money and reinvesting it in strategies 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.080 to further oppress those people, right, and particularly communities of color. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.240 And most of the time that's done in secret. It's 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.200 not done in public view. Like they're not passing all 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.360 these criminal justice policies with their name on it, right, 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.560 They're not passing all these immigration policies with their name 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.680 on it. Right. They're doing this mostly in secret through 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:45.520 organizations like ALEC American Legislative Exchange Council, And so they're 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.560 making money off of us, or they're taking the money 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.880 that we give to them for the products that we 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.120 need to survive, and then they're using that to make 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.160 our lives harder on the back end. So I think 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.920 there's a lot of strategies and tactics that we need 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.840 to employ to to, like you say, sustain the outrage. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.080 What I hope that this book contribute was shedding some 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.440 light on what that looks like and how that contributes 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.440 to systemic racism in particular. You know, in your book 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:16.600 Rich Thanks to Racism, you look at three particular areas 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:21.400 of focus. You look at our education system, criminal justice, 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:28.480 and immigration. Walk me through those three and why those 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.000 three were chosen, as I mean, obviously they should be. 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.800 I talk about this unwoke a of all the time 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.560 as a former educator. I say that there is no 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:44.360 better mechanism to support the consistency of white supremacy without 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:49.439 the public education system, Without us telling kids who is important, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.640 who is not, who is worth studying, who is not, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.760 what is considered classic literature, what is not right. We 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:01.680 are purposefully educating under the guys that racism will die 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.560 out with generations. And if that were the case, it 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.120 would have died out hundreds of years ago. So why 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.000 did you look at these particular areas and what do 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.839 they show us about how racism is exacerbated and how 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.600 the ultra wealthier profiting off of it in these particular areas. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.120 I focused on those three areas in particular because you know, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.439 there may not be a more significant racial justice issue 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.920 in the US right now than the massive overinvestment in 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.600 the criminalization of people of color, alongside the dramatic underinvestment 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.679 in the systems and strategies that would create healthier, safer, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:46.280 and more equitable communities nationwide. Right So, on those three issues, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.600 you know, we've dramatically expanded the criminal justice system, made 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.760 it the catch all solution for an enormous variety of 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:57.920 public health and safety issues, and particularly within black and 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.760 brown communities. Then we took that same coach, that same 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.800 destructive and ineffective tough on crime approach, and we exported 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:09.080 it to the immigration enforcement system while implementing a variety 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:14.080 of cruel and discriminatory policies targeted undocumented folks. And then meanwhile, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.120 like you say, we have never in the entire history 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.480 of our country been willing to create a truly equitable 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.440 education system. We've never been willing to put youth of 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:26.439 color on equal footing with white youth. So the harm 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.479 caused by each of those within communities of color is astronomical. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.520 But what they also share in common is that the 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.679 ultra wealthy are heavily invested in maintaining and even exacerbating 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.920 those inequities. So if you follow the money behind all 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:44.880 the public policies that create those systems, what you soon 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.800 find is that you wind up coming back to the 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.920 network that the Koch brothers created of billionaires and multi 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.480 millionaires who are investing in those systems. You find organizations 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.520 like ALEC with large corporations and Wall Street banks that are, 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.400 like I said, pushing these policies, usually secretively, and those 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.800 two groups in particular have made huge investments in think 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.640 tanks and advocacy organizations and media outlets that have been very, 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:17.000 very successful in advancing that that agenda. But then what 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.000 I also want to do is breakdown why, like what's 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.960 the strategy behind it? And I obviously spill a lot 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.600 of ink about this in the book, but the short 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.000 answer is because it's all those things are economically advantageous 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.640 for them, you know, they I refer to them as 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:37.840 racism profiteers. They make money off of mass incarceration through 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.280 the prison industrial complex and those dynamics, but a variety 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.440 of others too that before writing book I wasn't even 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.600 aware of. They also make money off immigrant attention. They 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.200 make money off of school privatization. That's one layer. But 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.680 another layer is they pay less in taxes when we 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.400 as a society choose to dehumanize people rather than meeting 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.800 their basic human needs, which is a big part of 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.560 all those systems. And I would also say that systemic 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.760 racism is extremely effective at controlling us, at dividing us, 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.400 at causing us not to recognize our common interests. So 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.560 all of those dynamics help them maintain their political and 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:17.240 economic power. You know, it's so depressing because the reality 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.000 is is that none of this is shocking or surprising. 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.400 It is it's just a matter of connecting the dots, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.680 you know. A couple of um Like a year or 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.920 so ago, we had the president and CEO of Color 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.000 of Change on and Color of Change was very instrumental 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.440 in unearthing although the things that ALEC had been doing 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.600 right basically taking the black and brown communities money by 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.520 day right, and then voting and then creating legislation that 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.240 would upend our lives at night. That's that is their 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.440 m O. And but when you bring these things to 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.160 the forefront, I feel like the conversation that we continue 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.800 to have is trying to shame the it's your shame 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.200 Republicans into doing the right thing. We try to appeal 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.960 to their moral character. Shouldn't we do more? Right? We 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:11.360 are the eleventh wealthiest nation in the world, and yet 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.120 our poverty levels in the and the issues that affect 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.760 our country look similar to those that are in developing nations, right, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.360 and so we know then that it isn't about money 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.040 or access to money. It is about a choice. And 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.480 so given that fact that we know that you're making 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.560 profit off of people's back, which is the whole premise 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.520 of your book, how do we stop it? What is 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.680 the What is if the incentive isn't, oh, we're going 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.520 to give you tax breaks if you keep your businesses here, 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.120 or we're going to try and you know, give you 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.720 these breaks. Because Republicans still believe in some type of 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.200 trickle down when there isn't a desire for there to 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.000 be a trickle down. There never was, which is why 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.840 after thirty years, we haven't seen a trickle down. So 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.560 what do we do here? Because the naming and the 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.480 and the shaming is important, right, recognizing you can't fix 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.440 something unless you actually see the problem. But the reality 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.600 is many people like yourself see the problem, articulate the problem, 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.320 and yet still here we are. Yeah, you're right. I 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:20.560 mean the I think trying to expose those issues, like 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.959 you say, is it's part of you know, popular education, 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.840 just letting folks know what's going on with with their 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.840 money and with the politics that affect their lives, but 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.080 ultimately solving it is, which is really, you know, the 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.760 only purpose of writing book. I'm a civil rights lawyer. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.199 I'm interested, and I support social movements. My interest is 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:44.520 in getting more people involved, and so what I really 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.639 wanted to say was that, you know, if you actually 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.439 break down that agenda and the power behind it. You know, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.480 for a long time, I thought as a civility, So 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.159 I thought I was working against ignorance. That's what I thought. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:01.760 I thought if I educated enough people, then then people's 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.040 best intentions would come out and we would solve all 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.640 these issues. And turns out I was the one who 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.800 was deeply ignorant early on in my career, and now 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.359 you know, I've recognized that the only there's only one 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.919 source of political power that is comparable to that of 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.120 organized wealth, and that's the power of organized people. Right. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.280 I think ultimately it's going to require stronger multiracial mass 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.720 movements to dismantle systemic racism and create a society that's 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.680 far more attentive to the well being of all its people. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.560 Because the solutions to the issues, the policy issues that 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.560 I talk about in the book, they're not complicated. They 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.280 you know, folks of color in the communities most directly 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.240 impacted by these issues have been saying the stuff for 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.399 a very long time. The problem is is not the 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.399 ideas or you know, the folks were supporting. The problem 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.920 isn't the opposition. So we need to build strong enough 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:02.000 movements to implement those those solutions. And like you say, also, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:03.720 we have to be able to get to the point 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.240 where we can make a collective demand the ultrawealthy as 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.960 a group that they stop advancing strategic racism and not 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.000 only do that, but support the effort to dismantle the 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.360 systems that perpetuate racial inequity and that lead to profits 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.080 for them, and they either do that or we find 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.320 other solutions that limit their powers so that the rest 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.320 of us can do it. But you know, my other 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.040 question is where is the incentive to limit their power 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.239 when in fact they're the ones that are funding the 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.240 packs right of the members of the members of Congress 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.840 who vote against their constituent's best interests as a way 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.679 to fill their coffers. And so it's there there is 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.439 the understanding that we need this collective movement, and we 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.119 know that we've been working on that. We've been telling 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.280 people you need to vote, you need to vote in masks, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.080 they show up, they do it. Historic numbers. Now we 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.639 see a historic number of voter suppression pieces of legislation 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.080 that are being offered up in over forty states across 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.480 this country. And so while we see the power is 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.720 actually in the people, right, but we see that the 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:14.600 people and their ability to utilize that power is being 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:19.240 dead ended by a political party. And so it's you 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.280 have this information, you know what will stop it. I 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:27.119 guess my feeling is that we're headed towards a powder 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.960 keg moment in America right like, where there are so 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.760 many ills and so many problems and we're pointing at 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.800 the ultra rich, and we're saying you're a root of 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.040 a lot of these problems. Money is a root of 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.679 a lot of these problems. How do we how do 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:47.680 we move forward if the masses are being silenced? Right, 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.800 if communities of color continue to be surveiled in a 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.080 way that doesn't allow us to exercise our vote and 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.560 our power to stop to stop this, because just to 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.919 say that you need to do better, Bezos, you need 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.400 to do better Murdock, and this, that and the other, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:09.359 they're not going to Yeah, you're right, I mean they 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.560 have um. Currently they have no incentive to stop what 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:17.000 they're doing. Um. They don't UM. And we haven't created 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:22.480 that incentive for them. And so you know, I so 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:28.000 it's not enough, um, just to educate ourselves and and 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:33.440 vote better. Yeah. And you know one thing I argue 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:39.280 for in the book is um um more of what 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.960 we might call participatory democracy. Right. If if our version 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:47.359 of democracy is just you know, voting every two years, 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.640 every four years and then tuning out and and appealing 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.680 to the benevolent paternalism of those who are in office, 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:56.280 then we are going to be sorely disappointed by what 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.280 comes out of it. So what I what I suggest 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.800 is is folks finding other ways to get involved in 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:09.359 a more consistent basis far more often. And you know that. 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:12.920 And really what I'm arguing for in the book is 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:19.199 people powered organizations, you know, building strong mass organizations. In 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.560 this work, it's the difference between winning and losing, right, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.600 between having a powerful organized force pushing for change and 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:30.239 merely having a large number of isolated voices in the wilderness. Right, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.480 there can be a million protesters out in the streets 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.080 yelling about various injustices. But if those million folks are 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:40.760 a million atomized individuals, then whatever impact is created by 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:43.040 their actions will quickly dissipate. We'll be back to business 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.560 as usual before long. But if those million protesters are 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.040 members of organizations that can start to build off of 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.640 the momentum created by that protest and channel it into 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.240 positive social change, then we can start to collectively shift 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.440 a needle. So I give I only offer two action 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:06.800 steps in the book. UM. One is supporting UM grassroots 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:11.520 racial justice organizations that are that already exist. UM. There's 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.920 hundreds of them out there in every state. UM. They're 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:17.560 usually severely underresourced relative to their opposition in the fights 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:19.679 UM that they're taking on and have been taking on 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.400 for a very long time. UM. So they need financial 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:24.600 donations and they need you know, every other kind of 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:27.240 support UM that folks can offer as well. And the 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.920 other thing I say is that we should be creating 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:33.800 what I call community equity assemblies in every community in 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:37.680 the US. Which so what does that look like, Well, yeah, 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:42.040 it's yeah, it's UM. Initially it can be very informal, 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.600 you know, just groups of people coming together to talk 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.560 about equity issues and their issues, talk about systemic racism 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:55.120 and other um, you know, other UM equity issues and 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.639 and just to learn about it and and start to 0:23:57.640 --> 0:23:59.800 think about how you can address it locally. It could 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:01.240 be just a few people, doesn't have to be a 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:06.040 formal body, but UM. And by the way, you know, 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.439 little groups like that create enormous change around the country 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:11.960 every day. I'm fortunate enough to you know, to work 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:14.080 with a lot of them. But over time, you start 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.200 building in more people, bringing in more people rather UM 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:22.280 and UM, and start getting more involved in local political 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:26.160 processes or state political processes. All of a sudden, UM, 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:31.399 we can start shifting things very very quickly. We can 0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:35.439 we can have um folks um getting a much bigger 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:37.479 seat at the table when it comes to budget decisions, 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.720 when it comes to policy decisions, And it really doesn't 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:44.879 take um that many people or that much time for 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.080 um UM for all of a sudden things to change 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:52.240 pretty dramatically once we start shining a light on equity 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:56.600 issues and we have people who are educating themselves about 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:58.639 these issues in a in a national level and an 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:02.280 international level, but also in very very local level who 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:07.640