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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Folks, we have an amazing show for you this morning.

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Speaker 3: How are we doing, Crystal and Emily doing well?

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Speaker 2: Ryan is I think en route to Cuba is the idea,

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Speaker 2: So just us this morning.

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Speaker 3: Ryan is pursuing regime change in Cuba.

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Speaker 2: I think Emily said he's going to be installed by

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Speaker 2: the CIA.

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Speaker 4: We don't know that he won't.

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Speaker 2: It's that's true, that is true. We have no evidence

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Speaker 2: that he will not be installed as the new Cuban

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Speaker 2: puppet dictator of the United States.

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Speaker 3: So waiting Comrad Groom, he stopped in Miami to pick

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Speaker 3: up some ex pats. He picked up Clovicular. Now they're

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Speaker 3: heading over to Cuba. That's exciting. We also have some

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Speaker 3: other housekeeping. Sager later today is interviewing former counter terrorism

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Speaker 3: official Joe Kent, so stay tuned for that. Between the

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Speaker 3: two of them, we've never gotten closer to a host

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Speaker 3: being arrested, sort of a Don Lemon style situation. So

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Speaker 3: I'm very excited for all that. But we've got a

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Speaker 3: big show today.

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Speaker 2: You know, you did just inspire a thought though, Griffin,

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Speaker 2: how amazing would a Ryan Clovicular interview actually be.

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Speaker 3: Really really good?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean I feel like that would be groundbreaking. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. Did you guys just see that Andrew Callahan.

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Speaker 2: I know you did because I sent it to the

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Speaker 2: chat Is moment.

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Speaker 4: Yes, you saw it.

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Speaker 6: I also saw the moment where he met his biggest

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Speaker 6: supporter on kick because you sent it.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. That was really that was honestly just

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Speaker 2: kind of heartbreaking, sad all the way around, as Clovicular

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Speaker 2: off and is in my opinion, but the moment with

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Speaker 2: Callahan where he's Cliviguilar's like, there's really nothing you would

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Speaker 2: change about your face when you look in the mirror

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Speaker 2: and Callahan just like leans back, crosses his legs and

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Speaker 2: he's like, no, not a thing. Clar crashes out Major

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Speaker 2: Cortisol spike and ends a interview. It's kind of extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: Male self confidence is his kryptonite.

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Speaker 3: Good point, which I think is also I think I

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Speaker 3: think Ryan would destroy him. Then, yeahs as someone who's

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Speaker 3: tried to upgrade Ryan's appearance, myself and he and you know,

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Speaker 3: hit a wall there.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you try to look Smack got shut.

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Speaker 4: Down the time he told you to fix his hair

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Speaker 4: and he just went.

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Speaker 3: But folks, let's get to some far more serious topics here.

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Speaker 3: We have a lot going on in the show today.

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Speaker 3: We have updates on possible ground deployment on or near

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Speaker 3: the Iranian border with US troops. We've got some oil updates,

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Speaker 3: and we've got some potential contradictions between what Hegseth heard

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Speaker 3: from the fallen Soldiers family and what Hegseeth has been saying.

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Speaker 3: And then we also have David Soota coming on to

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Speaker 3: tell us a little bit more about the updates or

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Speaker 3: the Phase two of the master plan, so we're excited

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Speaker 3: to speak to him.

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Speaker 7: Plus ye bunch.

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Speaker 2: More focused on the unitary executive, like basically the way

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Speaker 2: that previous administrations over decades and previous operatives over decades

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Speaker 2: have turned the presidency into effectively a monarchy, just in

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Speaker 2: time for Trump to come in and want to be

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Speaker 2: king and have the powers.

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Speaker 4: To do so.

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Speaker 3: Really great timing there. But let's start with our friend

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Speaker 3: Benjamin Netanyah, who Israeli Prime Minister Netanyah, who says can't

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Speaker 3: do a revolution in Iran from the air, there needs

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Speaker 3: to be a ground component as well. He says there

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Speaker 3: are many possibilities for a ground component, but won't share

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Speaker 3: what they are.

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Speaker 7: What do we make of it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly looks like that's the direction we're heading in,

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Speaker 2: and we can talk about some additional reporting about you know,

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Speaker 2: it's really coming down to the straight upfoe moves. It's

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Speaker 2: also we now have the Huthis onsar a LA who

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Speaker 2: are saying they are going to join the fight, which

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Speaker 2: means that one of the alternative pathways for oil will

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Speaker 2: potentially also be shut down because they successfully shut down

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Speaker 2: that pathway previously just using you know, drones and menacing

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Speaker 2: ships in the area. So you know, at this point,

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Speaker 2: I think what Manyao is acknowledging here is that he

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Speaker 2: has helped to get the US to a point where

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Speaker 2: there is going to be no more significant strategic success

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Speaker 2: without some ground troop component, which he's happy to see

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Speaker 2: our service members go in and fight and get slaughtered,

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Speaker 2: and US to be weakened in the region well, along

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Speaker 2: with of course Iran and the GCC member states being

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Speaker 2: weakened as well. And you know, I'm always very clear

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Speaker 2: that ultimately this is all Trump's fault. He's the one

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Speaker 2: who ultimately decided to go in. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of the reporting about, oh, they have different

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Speaker 2: aims and maybe there's going to be a blow up,

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I put that in the same category

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Speaker 2: as the repeated leaks to Barack Ravine during the Biden

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Speaker 2: the Brandon administration, where it was always very upset with

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Speaker 2: net Yahoo blah blah blah. I think they're similarly absurd

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Speaker 2: that there's some significant break coming between the Trump regime

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Speaker 2: and the net Yahoo regime. But you know, one other

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Speaker 2: thing that I'll mention here is in Netanyahu's comments, which

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Speaker 2: we're going to place some mothers of that are very

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Speaker 2: interesting that I want to hear Emily's take on for

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Speaker 2: you in a moment, but he did a classic thing

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Speaker 2: of in English. He was like, this thing could be

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Speaker 2: over really quickly, I think in response to a question

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Speaker 2: from Richard Engel, He's like, this could be over a

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Speaker 2: lot quicker than people think. And then in Hebrew to

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Speaker 2: the Israelis is like, this is going to go as

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Speaker 2: along as long as it needs to go. We're going

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Speaker 2: to be in here as long as we need to

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Speaker 2: be there. So, you know, very different messages to the

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Speaker 2: English speaking world versus the domestic audience in Israel.

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Speaker 6: And I think the two things that seem right now

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Speaker 6: fundamental things that seem to have been totally what's the

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Speaker 6: right word here, like I don't want to use the

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Speaker 6: word that's too generous, but seem to have been underestimated

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Speaker 6: on behalf of the United States.

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Speaker 4: Is the strait of her moves and.

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Speaker 6: The what Iran would do, how far they would go

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Speaker 6: with the strade of her moves, and the ability of

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Speaker 6: anti regime coalition forces on the ground in Iran to

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Speaker 6: stage some type of revolution. And that's where you do airstrikes.

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Speaker 6: You see the presence saying this is for the freedom

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Speaker 6: of the Iranian people. We now know that they were

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Speaker 6: overly confident about what would happen in the strait of

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Speaker 6: her moves, and with those two puzzle pieces being.

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Speaker 4: Clearly I mean the administration.

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Speaker 6: They probably weren't a hundred percent certain about either of them,

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Speaker 6: but clearly they thought the likelihood that they would be

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Speaker 6: able to have a revolution, They would be able to

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Speaker 6: create the conditions for a revolution that would topple the

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Speaker 6: regime if they kill the Iyatola and struck all of

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Speaker 6: these different places and created chaos. These Raelis obviously have

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Speaker 6: a different take on that than our government. But if

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Speaker 6: you have those two pieces wrong, you can see how

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Speaker 6: you start getting closer and closer to ground troops, which

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Speaker 6: is exactly what people were saying, exactly what we were

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Speaker 6: saying on this show. It becomes a spiral, and that's

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Speaker 6: so easy for it to happen. But when you have

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Speaker 6: those two puzzle pieces being incorrect, that's how you get

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Speaker 6: ground troops. It's exactly the recipe that people predicted.

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Speaker 2: It is the escalation trap, as Professor Pape has laid

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Speaker 2: out for us multiple times on our show, where now

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Speaker 2: the only way that Trump could actually end this war

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Speaker 2: at this point would be not only for him to

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Speaker 2: walk away, but for there to be significant concessions given

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Speaker 2: to Iran. I mean, he would have to not only

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Speaker 2: walk away, but walk away with his tail between his

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Speaker 2: legs saying what would you like to make you feel

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Speaker 2: safe and secure? Iranian government that is still firmly in

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Speaker 2: place and now also is directly controlling who comes and

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Speaker 2: goes from the Strait of Hormuz. So it's you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's in a he has created an absolute

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Speaker 2: mess for himself, and you know, here's some of the indications.

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Speaker 2: This is again Rock Ravine Mark Capudo about what is

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Speaker 2: being considered Trumpmull's risky carg Island takeover to force Iron

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Speaker 2: to open straight. We also have news that more marines

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Speaker 2: are being rushed to the region. There's expected to be

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Speaker 2: some overlap between this new deployment of marines and the

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Speaker 2: marines that have already been rushed into the region, so

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Speaker 2: that seems like it could be, you know, leading to

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Speaker 2: some sort of boots on the ground. I did see Emily,

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Speaker 2: do you remember who it was or Griffin, do you

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Speaker 2: remember who it was? One of the Republican senators who

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Speaker 2: was like, well, if the boots are only on an island.

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Speaker 2: That's not the same as boots on the ground in

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Speaker 2: like mainland or on. I liked that definition of boots

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Speaker 2: on the ground. Yeah, I wish I could remember who

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Speaker 2: it was, but in any case, revied reporting. Here the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration considering plans to occupy your blockade Aron's carg

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Speaker 2: Island to Iran to reopen the straight of horror.

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Speaker 8: MOUs.

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Speaker 2: Let me also show you this US warplanes and helicopters

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Speaker 2: is from the Wall Street Journal kickoff battle to reopen Hormuves.

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Speaker 2: So this battle has already started now. USNS allies have

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Speaker 2: intensified the battle to reopen the Strait of Hormuves, sending

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Speaker 2: low flying attack jets over the sea lanes to blast

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Speaker 2: Iranian naval vessels, and Apache helicopters to shoot down Iran's

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Speaker 2: deadly drones. According to American military officials, the stepped up

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Speaker 2: operation is part of a multi stage Pentagon plan to

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Speaker 2: reduce the danger from Irani in arm boats, mines, and

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Speaker 2: cruise missiles which have halted ship traffic through the waterway.

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Speaker 2: Not exactly Iran is getting the ships through that they

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Speaker 2: want to get through, but in any case, if the

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Speaker 2: danger can be reduced, the US could send US warships

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Speaker 2: through the straight and eventually escort vehicles in and out

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Speaker 2: of the Persian Gulf, but it will still likely take

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Speaker 2: weeks for the US to clear out Iran's web of

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Speaker 2: assets that have harassed traffic through a chow point for

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Speaker 2: twenty percent of the world's oil experts in a large

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Speaker 2: amount of commercial shipping traffic. And there is is a

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Speaker 2: quote in here they're using these A ten wart hogs

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Speaker 2: extensively in this operation, apparently for the military people out there,

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Speaker 2: to whom that means something. And there is a quote

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Speaker 2: in here where someone an analyst, as military analyst, says, look,

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Speaker 2: even here it is lowering the threat to the point

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Speaker 2: where ships can resume transiting the strait is doable, but

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Speaker 2: it takes time, and you are probably never going to

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Speaker 2: get to one hundred percent. We could reach a stage

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Speaker 2: where we're getting ships through and they could still get

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Speaker 2: a lucky shot. So that is the landscape. At this point.

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Speaker 2: You know, the battle has already joined, they have already escalated.

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Speaker 2: They're now trying to restore control over the strait of hormones.

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Speaker 2: The ability of our ships and our ally ships to

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Speaker 2: be able to pass through and it will take a

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Speaker 2: lot of time, it will be very risky and very dangerous.

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Speaker 2: And even after all of that work, even in the

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Speaker 2: most optimistic scenario, you are still going to have the

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Speaker 2: possibility of an Iranian drone coming in and lowing something up,

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Speaker 2: with DEVI stating consequences for you know, for lives and treasure.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 6: I saw an update this morning that the death toll

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Speaker 6: right now in Lebanon is around one thousand, and Iran

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Speaker 6: is around thirteen hundred. And I don't know the breakdown,

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Speaker 6: first of all, I mean it's I don't know how

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Speaker 6: confident we are in those numbers or the reports are

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Speaker 6: in those numbers. But and I don't know what the

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Speaker 6: breakdown is of civilians to militants. That's two thousand already

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Speaker 6: in this war. That's two thousand. I mean, we're double

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Speaker 6: digits of Americans. That's two thousand people just in the

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Speaker 6: time span of a couple of weeks. And just we're

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Speaker 6: so numb to people being bodies in the Middle East,

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Speaker 6: in particular in the Middle East, that's especially after Gaza.

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Speaker 6: But that's that's it's hard for me to believe how

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Speaker 6: little conversation there is about how much death there's already been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and we had a major incident yesterday as well.

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Speaker 2: I can put this up on the screen, where an

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Speaker 2: F thirty five aircraft was apparently struck by the Iranians.

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Speaker 2: This marks first, This is an extraordinary This is like

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Speaker 2: the highest tech of our high tech fighter jets. It's

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Speaker 2: supposed to be stealth. The fact that they were able

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Speaker 2: to hit this plane, this jet was apparently very significant,

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Speaker 2: says US. F thirty five aircraft makes emergency landing after

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Speaker 2: combat mission over Iran. By the way, there is some

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Speaker 2: I think appropriate skepticism about exactly the story that we're

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Speaker 2: being told here that the F thirty five fighter jet

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Speaker 2: landed safely and the pilot is in stable condition. I

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Speaker 2: have seen some conjecture they haven't said where or who

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Speaker 2: or any of the specifics, so there is some conjecture

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Speaker 2: over whether that part of this is true or not.

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Speaker 2: I also saw some conjecture that another F thirty five

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Speaker 2: may have also been been struck, but this is all

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Speaker 2: still very unconfirmed. What we do know is that Iran

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Speaker 2: was at least able to hit this one jet, and

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Speaker 2: the Iranians release some of the footage that they purported

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Speaker 2: to be from that takedown. They said. An F thirty

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Speaker 2: five fighter jet from the US has made an emergency

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Speaker 2: landing at n air Base in the Middle East after

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Speaker 2: carrying out a combat mission over Iran. Aircraft landed safely.

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Speaker 2: Pilot is in stable condition. We are aware of reports

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Speaker 2: that a US F thirty five aircraft conducted emergency landing

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Speaker 2: at a regional US air base after flying a combat

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Speaker 2: mission over i Run. Aircraft landed safely. Incident is under investigation.

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Speaker 2: CNN reported two anonymous sources saying the plane, which costs

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Speaker 2: up to one hundred million dollars, was likely hit by Iran.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that they can take shots at these things, this,

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Speaker 2: according to the military analysts, is very significant because it

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Speaker 2: makes it much more dangerous for the US to just

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Speaker 2: fly these sorties over Iran because now you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: they have a capability. We did not know that they had,

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Speaker 2: so now we have to plan for that, and that

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Speaker 2: isn't you know, that is a very clear risk for

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Speaker 2: these pilots who are involved. We've already had a number

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Speaker 2: of other aircraft, American aircraft I saw, you know, upwards

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Speaker 2: of somewhere around sixteen that have been damaged or destroyed

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Speaker 2: in a variety of circumstances. Some of the circumstances I

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Speaker 2: continue to believe we're not getting the accurate story about,

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Speaker 2: including the three that just plummeted from the sky and

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Speaker 2: they're like, h oops, friendly fire. We didn't know, you know,

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Speaker 2: something happened. The refueling one is also big question marks

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Speaker 2: there too.

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Speaker 3: They said it was like it wasn't offensive or defensive,

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Speaker 3: it was like a neutral error that those three planes

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Speaker 3: went down. Is this like the ghost of Kuwaid or

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Speaker 3: something like, I'm not really sure what's happening.

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Speaker 2: One of the theories. One of the theories again unconfirmed,

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Speaker 2: but listen, I mean, we just can't believe anything this

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Speaker 2: government says. At this point. We'll tell you about some

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Speaker 2: of the just insanely basic things that Pete Hegseth is

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Speaker 2: out here lying about in a moment. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: one of the theories is that it was actually like

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Speaker 2: a GCC allied pilot that went rogue, a Kuwaiting pilot

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Speaker 2: in particular and intentionally shot down are fighter jets. That's

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Speaker 2: one of the theories to me, that's much more plausible

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Speaker 2: at least than the idea like Oopsie's we just had

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Speaker 2: some sort of an unspecified incident, and all three of

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Speaker 2: these happened to you know, crash to the ground in

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Speaker 2: the same day.

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Speaker 4: Definitely doesn't make sense. No, definitely does not sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this reporter from Newsmax shared some about the

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Speaker 3: accelerated deployment of the Marines and sailors heading to the

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Speaker 3: Middle East. Four officials tell Newsmas the Boxer Amphibious Ready

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Speaker 3: Group and the embarked eleventh Marine Expeditionary Units deploying ahead

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Speaker 3: of schedule. There are roughly twenty five hundred Marines four

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Speaker 3: thousand total service members seemingly to potentially take or blockade

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Speaker 3: this carg Island area, which essentially, you know, seems strategically

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Speaker 3: kind of like a killbox for.

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Speaker 7: These US soldiers.

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Speaker 3: Additionally, we have some sought here from Scott Besson talking

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Speaker 3: about his ideas for carg Island.

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Speaker 7: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: There's laser focus on it.

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Speaker 8: As I said, there was a bombing campaign last week

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Speaker 8: a military at Caragio and were destroyed. And the other

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Speaker 8: thing I can tell you, if you're an oil worker,

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Speaker 8: you don't want to work there. So all the oil

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Speaker 8: workers that are being coerced to stay there and you know,

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Speaker 8: we will see what happens with whether that eventually becomes

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Speaker 8: a US.

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Speaker 3: All right, so it could eventually become a US asset,

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Speaker 3: maybe the fifty first state.

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Speaker 7: You never know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is all amidst the fact that they

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Speaker 3: tried to get other countries to come into the straight

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Speaker 3: up our moves to provide back up. They're all like, actually,

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Speaker 3: we're going to hard pass on that. So I guess

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Speaker 3: now we're like, okay, we'll just dump all of our

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Speaker 3: service men in there, see how that goes well.

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Speaker 4: And I was I was watching a BBC report last night.

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Speaker 6: This probably sounds obvious to many people, but Iran has

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Speaker 6: prepared for these possibilities for a long time, and they

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Speaker 6: have other ports that aren't just going to that. Carg

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Speaker 6: Island is not going to US. Takeover of Carg Island

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Speaker 6: is not going to prevent so prevent them from using So.

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Speaker 4: It's just it does look like escalation spiral.

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Speaker 6: It does look like Trump might have some excuse to

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Speaker 6: say this limited operation.

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Speaker 4: Just like Crystal said, it's not boots.

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Speaker 6: On the ground and the boots on the island as

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Speaker 6: though the island doesn't soil. And then from there your

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Speaker 6: your boots on the ground. That's we all know how

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Speaker 6: that goes. We've all seen how that has gone over

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Speaker 6: the last twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Well, and first from speaking of Professor Pape, you know

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Speaker 2: what he warns is, first of all, we were taking

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Speaker 2: a look at the geography of this area of these

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Speaker 2: Sheer cliffs. To Emily's point, you know, the Iranians been

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Speaker 2: gaming this out for literally decades thinking about this. They

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Speaker 2: also learned a lot, well, they learned a lot from

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Speaker 2: the Iran Iraq War, which we of course were you know,

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Speaker 2: backing I rock in. And then we've learned a lot

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Speaker 2: more recently from the Twelve Day War. And some of

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Speaker 2: the speculation I've seen is actually this capacity to take

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Speaker 2: down our F thirty five fighter jets or potentially take

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Speaker 2: them down, was developed after the Twelve Day War. So

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Speaker 2: that tells you they haven't just been sitting there like

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Speaker 2: I'm sure this diplomacy with Jared Kushner and Steve Wicoff's

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Speaker 2: gonna work out this time. No, they were clear eyed.

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Speaker 2: They knew that this was very likely, if not, you know, inevitable,

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Speaker 2: and they've been thinking about how exactly to prepare. So

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Speaker 2: taking carg Island is one thing maybe you can. You

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Speaker 2: could probably accomplish that, you know, with the US military

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Speaker 2: come in full force, bomb a bunch of shit, you know,

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Speaker 2: kill a bunch of kill a bunch of people, and

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Speaker 2: probably some of our service members die as well. But

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Speaker 2: then you also have to hold Carg Island and it's

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Speaker 2: you know, very close to the Iranian mainland. Would not

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Speaker 2: be hard for shaw He drones which had been apparently

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Speaker 2: you know, been able to fly. It will basically wherever

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Speaker 2: they want, damage whatever they want throughout this throughout this war.

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Speaker 2: So you are in a very very difficult position. And

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Speaker 2: now what Now you're entrenched on Carg Island and you

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Speaker 2: know where you're gonna Now we're staying there forever. We're

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Speaker 2: claiming this is a US asset. Not clear that that's

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Speaker 2: going to certainly not going to topple the regime. As

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Speaker 2: Griff and emilyin both of you guys are pointing out,

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Speaker 2: they have other options which again they they developed partly

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Speaker 2: during the Iran Iraq War. Actually, they it will definitely

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Speaker 2: be damaging to their economic prospects, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 2: But again there this is existential for them, so they're

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Speaker 2: willing to take a lot more pain, and because we

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Speaker 2: hold carg Island also does not mean that we've cleared

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Speaker 2: up the problems with the Straight of Horror moves, which

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Speaker 2: is a separate and independent issue. It may help, but

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Speaker 2: it's not going to solve that problem. So now a

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Speaker 2: lot of the war focus is around this new problem

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Speaker 2: that has been created in the war, where victory is

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Speaker 2: effectively being defined as just getting back to some semblance

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Speaker 2: of the pre war status quo. Though even if you're

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Speaker 2: able through some you know, miraculous feed and ironie collat

394
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Speaker 2: military class whatever to reopen the Straight of Horror moves,

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Speaker 2: you have still created a situation where you have a

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Speaker 2: more hardline government in place in Iran which is much

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Speaker 2: more likely to pursue nuclear weapons and much less likely

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Speaker 2: to engage in the future in any sort of diplomacy

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Speaker 2: with you. And that is just sort of done and

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Speaker 2: baked in at this point, which is part of why

401
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Speaker 2: this escalation is very likely to continue. Because let's say

402
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Speaker 2: there is some miraculous off ramp that has achieved right now,

403
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Speaker 2: the Iranians rationally may very well begin pursuing a nuclear

404
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Speaker 2: weapon or moving again in that direction, and Israel will

405
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Speaker 2: be right here back in DC you know, Natannalhu himself

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Speaker 2: and all of his allies saying you're not gonna let

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Speaker 2: this happen. You said there can be no nuclear Iran.

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Speaker 2: You can't let this happen on your watch, and we

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Speaker 2: will be right back here all over again. So it

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Speaker 2: is a very very grim landscape in front of us.

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Speaker 6: Yes, and it's sadly going everything that you just laid out, Chrysal.

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Speaker 6: I was struck by how this is what people were

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Speaker 6: talking about the likelihood of this happening, exactly what we're seeing,

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Speaker 6: Like the outline of this is exactly what people were

415
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Speaker 6: warning was going to happen and being called pannikins or

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Speaker 6: whatever else. But like just three weeks ago, it was

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Speaker 6: fairly clear that unless Trump did a quick cut and

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Speaker 6: run midnight hammer thing, which he was not indicating, is

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Speaker 6: what he would do. Obviously this was something at a

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Speaker 6: larger scale. This exact pattern, pattern is probably the right word,

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Speaker 6: is what would reveal itself over the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 6: And I don't think it gives anyone pleasure to be

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Speaker 6: right about that, but it's so it's going so closely

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Speaker 6: to the script.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Yeah, everyone to know, Yeah, go ahead, can you

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Speaker 2: cueue up the one where he's talking about number one

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Speaker 2: state sponsor of terrorism and of course, yeah, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: got that ready to go for us.

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Speaker 3: So we got Pete Hegseth here talking about a little

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Speaker 3: bit of the of the funding of the Iranian country.

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Speaker 7: Let's take a listen here.

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Speaker 9: That's why you had millions of Iranians protesting because they

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Speaker 9: felt like their condition, quality of life did and match

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Speaker 9: what it could be or should be, and what was.

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Speaker 4: The Iranian state.

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Speaker 9: There's a reason we come call Iran the number one

437
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Speaker 9: state sponsor of terrorism because they took the money they

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00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 9: make and they invested in tunnels, and they invested in missiles,

439
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 9: and they invested in launchers and UAB two hundred billion dollars.

440
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,719
Speaker 9: I think that number could move. Obviously, it takes uh

441
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 9: it takes money to kill bad guys. So going back

442
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 9: to Congress and folks there to ensure that we're properly

443
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 9: funded for what's been done, for what we may have

444
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:35,959
Speaker 9: to do in the future.

445
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: Incredible in what we may have to do.

446
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 6: Ye billion dollars. That tells you what they think is coming.

447
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 6: That's exactly that. That is your indication they are preparing

448
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 6: for a long drawn, drawn out war. At this point,

449
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 6: they're asking Congress right now for an additional two hundred

450
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 6: billion dollars.

451
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: Yes, and isn't I think I saw some stats yesterday

452
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: that's more than we sent to Ukraine in four years

453
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 2: of that war. Just for perspective, like, this is a

454
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: massive amount of money, and he says that that number

455
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: could move. It's not moving down. The only direction it's

456
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: gonna move is up. I actually saw Lauren Bobert this

457
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: morning saying that she's a no on the additional war funding,

458
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 2: so you know, she then got further pressed, oh, well

459
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: do you you know, do you think that this war

460
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: should continue? And she's like, that's up to Trump. So

461
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 2: she kind of differs on that point, but at least

462
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 2: as saying two hundred billion dollars, I don't think I'm

463
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 2: voting for that. But the lack of self awareness here

464
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: of Hegseth within minutes of each other, saying that the

465
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: reason Iran is the number one state sponsor of terrors

466
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: because they take their money and they spend it on missiles,

467
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: and then moments later asking Congress for two hundred billion

468
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: dollars for missiles, taking our money and spending on missiles

469
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: for starting World War three and bombing little girls in

470
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: grade school pretty and you know, the American public is

471
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: so propagandized that I think most people won't even won't

472
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: even really notice that. It's like it's it's it's different

473
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 2: when we're on to us it than when we do it.

474
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 2: You know, it's not the same when they do it.

475
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 2: But you know, that is the reality of what our

476
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: state is becoming. They're asking for one point five trillion

477
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: dollar defense buddy, they already have one trillion dollar defense budget,

478
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: and now you're coming back and asking for two hundred

479
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: billion dollars more for a war that we're told has

480
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: already been a glorious victory. Trump told us we already

481
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: won this thing. This little excursion just so insane, and

482
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 2: you can only imagine what good could actually be done

483
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: with that money.

484
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 6: Instead, I just want to say, I just pulled this up, Crystal.

485
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 6: This is astounding so as according to the Council for

486
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 6: Foreign Relations Counsole Foreign Relations, as of December thirty one,

487
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 6: twenty twenty five, the US Congress has made available one

488
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 6: hundred and eighty eight billion dollars in spending related to

489
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 6: the war in Ukraine. According to the US Special Inspector

490
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 6: General for Operation Atlantic Results. So think about that. Think

491
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 6: about that everyone, over several years of war in Ukraine,

492
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 6: one hundred and eighty eight billion, which is a lot

493
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 6: of money, by the way, already a lot of money.

494
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 6: We are two three weeks into I guess three weeks

495
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 6: now into this war in Iran, and they're asking for

496
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 6: two hundred billion dollars from Congress.

497
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 4: However, a war, I mean again.

498
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 6: Donald Trump said he would end the war in Ukraine's

499
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 6: end the war in Gaza, but he said he would

500
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 6: not start new wars, not start new wars. And this

501
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 6: entire question of whether there was an imminent threat, we're

502
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 6: playing semantics with it right now. But I think everybody

503
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 6: understands because the Secretary of State and the Speaker of

504
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 6: the House came out and said it. When the war

505
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 6: started was nudged, at least the timeline was nudged by

506
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 6: the Israelis.

507
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 4: And I agree with Crystal.

508
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 6: I think our government has plenty of agency if that's

509
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 6: the case. We chose, we still made our decision. But

510
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 6: the question of whether this is a war of choice

511
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 6: or necessity has pretty much been answered, And two hundred

512
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 6: billion dollars two hundred billion dollar requests three weeks into it.

513
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: Speaking of he said, having a hard time selling this war.

514
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 3: We have a clip here where he did a little

515
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 3: story from his son on why we have to keep

516
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: fighting this war.

517
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 9: My thirteen year old son popped into my office last

518
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 9: night while I was editing these remarks. He asked about

519
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 9: the war and the families I met at and I

520
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 9: looked at him and I said, they died for you,

521
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 9: so that your generation doesn't have to deal with a

522
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 9: nuclear Iran.

523
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 5: True.

524
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, So the families who said finished this, we will,

525
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 9: and I say the same to every American who wants

526
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 9: peace through.

527
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 7: All right.

528
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: So the families, they of the fallen soldiers, they told Pete,

529
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 3: you know what it's worth it, Let's finish the finished

530
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 3: the damn job. Except some of the families are disputing

531
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 3: that conversation. Father of service member kill and I Iran

532
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: war said he never told Pete. Hegseth to finish the job.

533
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: They go on to say in this article that they

534
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 3: are just a little confused and unsure, you know, I mean,

535
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: then these are patriotic families, right, so you know these

536
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: are this is not something that they want to believe

537
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: that their son or daughter, you know, died for a reason,

538
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: but they're just they just are not sure. And that

539
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 3: was the conversations in this report that they were asking

540
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 3: Pete about, I hope this.

541
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: Is worth it just so senseless. And we actually had

542
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: a video of another parents have fallen service member saying,

543
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: you know, I'm actively wanting the war to stop, So

544
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: to lie about something like this to me is just

545
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 2: so incredibly low. Like to use these service members' families

546
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: and then to put words in their mouths so that

547
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 2: you can use them like a little puppet, you know,

548
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: to get your talking points across, is so disgusting to me.

549
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 2: Not to mention obviously the story with his own son

550
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: is completely and totally fake. And even if it's not fake,

551
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: I am driven completely insane by the gas lighting here

552
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 2: about the timeline, let us not forget it was the

553
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: first Trump administration that tore up the Imanian nuclear deal

554
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: that was working, and it was this Trump administration that

555
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 2: twice used diplomatic negotiations as a ruse to attack and

556
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: start a war with a run in that second set

557
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: of negotiations. We now have multiple people who are involved,

558
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: we have the omanis, we actually have one of the

559
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: British officials involved who said this, there were incredible concessions

560
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: made here. This was a deal that was workable, that

561
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: went beyond if you were concerned that the original deal

562
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: with Obama wasn't strong enough, it went beyond that. And

563
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: they didn't even bother these clowns to send negotiators that

564
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: even understood what was being discussed. So to him, for

565
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: him to say, oh, we're doing the work to keep

566
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: Iran from getting a nuclear weapon to make the world

567
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 2: safe for our children, what total and complete bullshit you

568
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: have made it more likely that Iran, and by the way,

569
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: a whole host of other countries around the world, pursue

570
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: nuclear weapons because that is ultimately the only deterrence that

571
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: may work to keep us from coming in and bombing

572
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: their countries and murdering their children and their heads of state.

573
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: And those also cut a bunch of the energy and

574
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: nuclear scientists that would have been able to analyze and

575
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 3: create like a new framework or a new deal for us.

576
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 7: So thank you big balls for that as well. Emily,

577
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 7: what were you saying.

578
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 6: Well, I just said the idea that Iran's that you're

579
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 6: going to stop Iran from wanting a nuclear weapon. So

580
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 6: long as Israel has nuclear weapons, it's just not happening.

581
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 6: And like that, that is just in the Middle East.

582
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 6: There are multiple countries with nuclear capacity. So if you're Iran,

583
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 6: you can't bomb away the sentiment that they want to

584
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 6: be they want to have a nuclear weapon capacity, and

585
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 6: you can try to you could even try to change

586
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 6: the regime, and it's not going to bomb away the

587
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 6: sentiment among people in Iran that that's something that they

588
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 6: should have, that they need to have, and that, as

589
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 6: Crystal saying, in of itself, is the idea that we're

590
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 6: not going to be dealing with this in another generation unfortunately,

591
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 6: tragically not happening.

592
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: And on that note, Emily, we needed your expertise for

593
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 3: this next one before we get to Seroda. So we

594
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: don't know why we're doing it. We don't know who

595
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: we're doing it for. Actually, we may now know who

596
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 3: we're doing it for. The spirit of Genghis Khan. Let's

597
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: take a listen to net and Yahoo here.

598
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 5: Let's rule the lessons of history one hundred pages.

599
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 10: In which she said this reproves that, unfortunately, I'm happy

600
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 10: Jesus Christ has no advantage over Rginia's huntry because if

601
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 10: you are long enough, people will overcome good.

602
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 5: Compression will overcome moeration. So you have no choice.

603
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 10: If you look at the world as it is today,

604
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 10: you have to be blind not to see the democracy

605
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 10: led by the United States have to reassert their will

606
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 10: to defend themselves and to oppose their enemies in time,

607
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 10: while there's still time before the jarring gong of danger.

608
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 5: Wakes them up and wakes them up too late. This

609
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 5: is where we.

610
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 7: Are now, of danger.

611
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 6: All right, Yeah, that's b.

612
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 7: Family.

613
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: I know you're always asking yourself, what would jingis con.

614
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 6: The bracelet. I mean, apparently he's paraphrasing Durant, who was

615
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 6: making a comment on human nature.

616
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: Pull up that quote. I have it.

617
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 6: Yet, nature and history do not agree with our conceptions

618
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 6: of good and bad. They define good as that which survives,

619
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 6: and bad is that which goes under. In the universe,

620
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 6: is no prejudice in favor of Christ as against Genghis Khan.

621
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 4: And that's.

622
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 6: It's my perspective of that him trotting out that paraphrase

623
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 6: quote right now is that it does It feels almost

624
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 6: like taunting. And you know, Nietzsche would Nietzsche's perspective on

625
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 6: christ was that it was a sort of a slave morality,

626
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 6: that the Christianity valorizes weakness, and that's been throughout history

627
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 6: a criticism of of Christianity. And whether or not Natania

628
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 6: who was intentionally trying to poke at Christians and Christians

629
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 6: in America, like a Tucker Carlson for example, who are

630
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 6: making Christian arguments against you know, the War Gaza and

631
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 6: the like.

632
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know.

633
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 6: I would recommend a couple of books, Dominion by Tom

634
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 6: Holland and Air We Breathed by Glenn Scribner is a

635
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 6: really good one too, about where there's the universalism in

636
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 6: Christianity that.

637
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 4: It again it feels like.

638
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 6: Kind of taunting that Jesus comes along and says, go

639
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 6: and baptize, go and make disciples of all nations, all nations,

640
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 6: which is historically somewhat unique. And he says there will

641
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 6: be one shepherd in one flock, meaning everyone in the

642
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 6: world is covered by the sacrifice. And then Paul says

643
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 6: there is no Jew or Greek that's in Galatians, and

644
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 6: that Tom Holland rightly points out, changes absolutely everything. And

645
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 6: is it true that Christians have done a poor job

646
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 6: throughout his honoring the egalitarianism of christ message. Yes, of course,

647
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 6: but that's still there's still a tension between Christianity and

648
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 6: other religions because of that, and it does Yahoo tritting.

649
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 4: Out that quote is.

650
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 6: It feels it feels like he might have been intentionally

651
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 6: trying to poke a bear, whether it's Tucker or someone else.

652
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: Well, they came out after the fact and were like,

653
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: it felt the need to issue a statement on the

654
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: Twitter account, the official like Prime Minister of Israel Twitter

655
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 2: account that was like, we meant no offense to Christians.

656
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: We were just quoting this thing. But you know, the

657
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: funny thing to me, like coming at this from a

658
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: totally non religious perspective, is this this dodge that I've

659
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: seen not just from him, but from plenty of other

660
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: people who are not even like that sympathetic to him

661
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: or were like, he's just quoting something. It's like, just

662
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: because you're quoting someone else doesn't mean that that like

663
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 2: original quote was also a good thing, you know, I mean,

664
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 2: that's still a choice. You're like co signing this idea,

665
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: And to me, it was just very revealed of what

666
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: I think is a dominant mindset, not just with net Nahu,

667
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: but within Israel. They see themselves as inherently moral right,

668
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: not based on their actions, not based on what they

669
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: do in the world, which you know, to me is

670
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: how you define moralities like what do you do? Do

671
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: you cause harm? Or do you cause people? Like what

672
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: are you?

673
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 4: What are you?

674
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: Are you geniciding children in Gaza? Because that seems to

675
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: have a real bearing to me on whether you are

676
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: a moral actor. But the view here offered by net

677
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: Yahoo is we are inherently the good side. So even

678
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 2: if we commit evil acts, it's in service of our

679
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: own inherent goodness. And this is a you know, I mean,

680
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: this is a supremacist ideology, which is what Israel, what

681
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: Zionism is based on, as a Jewish supremacist ideology. And

682
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: a lot of times when he's speaking to you know,

683
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 2: an American audience or Western audience in general, then I'll

684
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: talk about Western values, to talk about Judeo Christian values.

685
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: So then we get also brought in the fold of

686
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: the inherently good. And so he's saying here and again

687
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: very noteworthy this is offered in English. I think it

688
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: could be seen as a as a taunt to Christian.

689
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 2: I think that's certainly the case, especially since there's been this,

690
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, this tension with the Tucker Carlson's of the world,

691
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 2: et cetera.

692
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 6: And the Pope has called for a ceasefire, by the way,

693
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 6: So it's yeah, it's not it's not just Protestant Protestants

694
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 6: in America. There's a lot of religious backlash.

695
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: That's that is that's a great point. But so you

696
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: have that angle of it, but you also have him

697
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: projecting some American audience. You may be feeling a little

698
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: squeamish about this, like girls' school, that you just bond

699
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 2: and murder all these children. But trust me, you're still

700
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: the good guys here. You're still no matter what you

701
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: do in this war, because if you don't act in

702
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: barbaric ways, in evil ways, then the ultimate evil, the

703
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: inherently evil under you know, and what's underneath the service

704
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 2: there is Muslims, Persians, Iranian Arabs, you know, anybody who

705
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 2: would the Israelis. If you don't act against that inherent

706
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 2: evil in this barbaric way, then those people will win out.

707
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's a kind of a rehash of

708
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: his Children of the Light versus Children of the Darkness

709
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 2: speech at the beginning of the you know, the genocidal

710
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: assault on Gazo, where again it's like anything is justified

711
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: in our attempts here to decimate and destroy the Palestinian

712
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: people because we're the good ones, not because of what

713
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: we do, just because who we are, and they're the

714
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: bad ones, not because of their age or who they

715
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 2: are or what they do, but just inherently. And that

716
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: is such an abhorrent, deeply abhorrent, destructive, disgusting worldview to me.

717
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: But that's what you know, that is the ideology, that

718
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: is the reigning ideology in Israel. You have to say

719
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: at this point.

720
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 6: I think what turned people like Tucker Carlson then actually

721
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 6: like carry Prejon Boler against what they were seeing a

722
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 6: Gazos precisely the part of their faith and it's emphasized

723
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 6: all the time about the vulnerable. And again this was

724
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 6: Nietzsche's contention with Christianity actually, and Tom Holland has done

725
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 6: really great debates on those. People should just pop that

726
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 6: into YouTube and watch his debates or read dominion.

727
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 4: It's fantastic. But I think when you see the.

728
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 6: Powerful abuse civilians that are powerless, that's very, very moving

729
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 6: to a lot of Christians on everybody, but like Augustine

730
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 6: or not agusting Aquinas, that is just war doctrine. And

731
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 6: you can make a pretty good argument, and that's probably.

732
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 4: Why Popolio has called for a ceasefire.

733
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 6: If you look at the United States and Israel's decision

734
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 6: to launch this particular war, you could you could argue

735
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 6: that it's violating the Christian tradition of what constitutes a

736
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 6: just war. And so Netanyahu, who is secular by the way.

737
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 4: He's that's disputed.

738
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 6: I mean, he's he's a political figure, and I think

739
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 6: has tried to, you know, send different signals at different

740
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 6: times in his career. It feels like, to your point

741
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 6: about the children of life versus the children of the directness,

742
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 6: he's trying to make this argument that you can use

743
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 6: strength and that's that can be used against civilians because

744
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 6: ultimately you're on the you're on the good side, and

745
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 6: that's what's important, is protecting your people. You're like that,

746
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 6: and I think that's attractive to a lot of people

747
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 6: around the world. But the more you see like the girls'

748
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 6: school for example, or other civilian abuses of civilians, it

749
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 6: doesn't fly with other people.

750
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean being absolved for your crimes. I'm sure

751
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 2: that does feel good to a lot of people, like, oh,

752
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: here's an excuse where you get to act with impunity

753
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: and you know, indulge your most barbaric and cruel instincts.

754
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 2: But really, if you think hard enough about it, because

755
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: you're good, it's all fine. The other thing, and you know,

756
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: I think there are others who could probably who could

757
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: probably lay this out more effectively and with more knowledge

758
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: than me. But Jonathan green Blatt recently, in addition to

759
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 2: saying all kinds of other crazy crap, he said something

760
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: about we are no longer the like weak need Jews

761
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: or the knock need jude or the Jews or something

762
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: like that. And this is an idea that goes back

763
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: to World War Two, deeply anti Semitic, but in a

764
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: like sort of self loathing anti Semitic way, that the

765
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: there is like victim blaming of Holocaust victims, that they

766
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: weren't strong enough to stand up. And so part of

767
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 2: the founding of Israel was the idea that like, we're

768
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: going to create a state that is it will stand up,

769
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 2: that will I mean committed terror, stax and ethnic cleansing,

770
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 2: in order to found the state, and we are going

771
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: to be barbaric in a way, you know, and cruel

772
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: and tough and strong in a way that you know,

773
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: our ancestors who were slaughtered in the Holocaust in a

774
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: way that they weren't again deeply disgusting view, but you know,

775
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: offered by someone like ADL's Jonathan Greenblatt, who supposedly is

776
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: all against anti sempittiss sposed to be his whole thing,

777
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: and it sort of reminds me of that as well,

778
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: where it's like, you know, we can't afford to have

779
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 2: to indulge in these little nice Christian values. We are

780
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: the good guys, and we are going to use whatever

781
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: means necessary to even if those things look evil to you,

782
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: but underneath the surface, because we're the good guys always

783
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 2: and forever, no matter what we do, you know, you

784
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: just don't understand that we're actually fighting evil with evil,

785
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: and we have to do that because we don't have

786
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: the luxury of acting other ways any other way.

787
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 6: Just my quick point on that would be that is

788
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 6: the story of human history, like that is what tribalism

789
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 6: that is very historically normal. That is what tribalism predating

790
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 6: nation states.

791
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: That's what it is.

792
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 6: And liberalism after World War two was precisely conceived to

793
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 6: overcome that because it leads to atrocities, and Israel has

794
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 6: never been able to because of the trauma that the

795
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 6: Jewish people suffered through the Holocaust, the industrial scale genocide

796
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 6: that's within living memory of people. That's not like, not

797
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 6: everybody has been on board with that because there's this

798
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 6: constant fear and understandably, so I have another genocide coming along,

799
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 6: and you know, we don't have to go like that's

800
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 6: that just took us to a totally different deeper layer.

801
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 6: But that's liberalism was meant precisely to overcome those instincts,

802
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 6: will to power style instincts, and that's why we have

803
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 6: international groups and.

804
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 4: Treaties and laws.

805
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 6: So that's I think a fundamental source of tension has

806
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 6: been for the last one hundred years.

807
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 2: Well, and let me say one last thing before We've

808
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: got David Serota waiting here, and I do want to

809
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 2: get him in, which is that you know, hag Steth

810
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 2: and Steven Miller and the whole Trump regime they like

811
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 2: to frame the idea of like international law or respect

812
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: for civilians or rules of engagement as like weak and

813
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: woke and pathetic and not realistic, blah blah blah. Steven

814
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: Miller says it the most sort of like directly. Pet

815
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: hag Seth does as well, though, And Pete haig Seth,

816
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that he's famous for

817
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: is going and trying to get pardons for war criminals.

818
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: So that is his worldview. But I think we already

819
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: see in the Iran war that when we blow up

820
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: all of the rules of engagement and international norms and

821
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: you know, and law and any sort of care and

822
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 2: concern for civilians, this puts our own service members at risk.

823
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 2: It puts the world economy at risk. I mean, it

824
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: puts everything on the table. So we're already living with

825
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: the consequences of blowing up all of those you know

826
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: what would be perceived as sort of like woke liberal niceties.

827
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: It's not just that you get to do what you

828
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: want to your enemies. Your enemies also get to do

829
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: what they want to you. And in a world where

830
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: asymmetric power projection is more easily available than it ever

831
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: has been before, that seems like a pretty foolish, pretty foolhardy,

832
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: and ultimately destructive way to go outside of you know,

833
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: any sort of moral concerns for morality.

834
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should probably try to keep some of these

835
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 3: planes in the air before we start acting like Janus Khan.

836
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: On on that note, why don't we get over to

837
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: the man uncovering the master plan? David Serota, David, are

838
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 3: you there? I'm here, Yes, welcome, David. How are you today?

839
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 7: Good? Thanks for having me. Yeah, we're happy to have you.

840
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 7: What's going on?

841
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: You know, we're told that there is It doesn't seem

842
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 3: like there's a big plan with this war, but apparently

843
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 3: you have uncovered the master plan, so update us on

844
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: what's going on there.

845
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 11: Well, I think the master plan is as it relates

846
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 11: to the Iran war, It's like the president woke up

847
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 11: one morning and decided to go to start World War

848
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 11: three and there was no public justification and for it,

849
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 11: there was no congressional authorization for it. It was just

850
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 11: like the King woke up on the wrong or I

851
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 11: guess in his frame maybe the right side of the bed,

852
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 11: and decided to start World War three, which is destabilizing

853
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 11: the entire planet. And the point of our audio series

854
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 11: is to ask the question, how is something like that

855
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 11: even possible. And so how is it that we've arrived

856
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 11: at a place where a president has a constitution that

857
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 11: says Congress declares war, and yet we're now where we

858
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 11: are where a war was started almost basically like a

859
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 11: World War three esque situation like that wasn't just like

860
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 11: one bombing. We're now in like a World War three

861
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 11: esque situation without any real authorization at all. And so

862
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 11: it's this question of how did Donald Trump become a king?

863
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 11: But it's not really only about Donald Trump. It's how

864
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 11: did the presidency become a monarchy? And I think to

865
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 11: answer that question you have to answer the question of

866
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 11: how it started really over the court fifty years ago

867
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 11: and how it's evolved over fifty years. We were at

868
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 11: this place in our country's history, or a similar place

869
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 11: to it during and after Watergate. Watergate was seen as

870
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 11: a scandal about an imperial presidency that had gotten out

871
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 11: of control, not just out of control in terms of

872
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 11: targeting Richard Nixon, targeting his political opponents. But remember that

873
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 11: was a time when Richard Nixon campaigned promising to end

874
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 11: the Vietnam War and then secretly, months later, secretly expanded

875
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 11: the Vietnam War. It was a time where Richard Nixon

876
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 11: started cutting off spending that had been authorized and passed

877
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 11: by Congress. Roads were in the process of being made,

878
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 11: and then the road construction had to stop because Richard

879
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 11: Nixon asserted the right to say he could decide what

880
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 11: spending moved forward and what spending.

881
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 7: Did not move forward.

882
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 11: So all of the fights that I think that we've

883
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 11: gotten used to now, and these examples of kind of

884
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 11: an imperial presidency, we have been here before. But the

885
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 11: thing is is that after Watergate, Congress really pushed back

886
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 11: and took back some of that power. I mean, there

887
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 11: was the War Powers Resolution, there was the Budget Impoundment Act,

888
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 11: which was designed to stop presidents from doing what Nixon

889
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 11: had done. But there was really a backlash to the

890
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 11: backlash that started after Congress took back some of its power.

891
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 11: And there has been an ideology on the I wouldn't

892
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 11: call it the libertarian righte and in sort of the

893
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 11: center of the Republican Party, you know, the sort of

894
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 11: the Dick Cheney wing. Dick Cheney, of course, was the

895
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 11: chief of staff to Gerald Ford right after Watergate. This

896
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 11: real idea that Congress should never encroach on the president's authority.

897
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 11: And that's I think part of why we are here today.

898
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 11: Where we woke up, you know a few weeks ago

899
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 11: when the President decided, Hey, I'm just going to start

900
00:47:58,960 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 11: World War three.

901
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me go ahead and play for people a

902
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: little bit of or we'll just play this whole trailer

903
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: for the new season A master plan. First season was

904
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: so incredible, such extraordinary journalism. I can't wait to dig

905
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: into this one and see what you've uncovered here as well.

906
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and play this for everyone so they

907
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: can get a taste of the what you guys have

908
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: put together.

909
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 5: I have never been a quitter.

910
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 11: Once upon a time, an imperial president was cast out

911
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 11: of the palace, but all the president's men refused to

912
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 11: relinquish the throne's power.

913
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 5: I must America first.

914
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 11: So they went to work rewiring the government. They didn't

915
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 11: just take back the controls. They began building something new,

916
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 11: something stronger.

917
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 5: They gave the president.

918
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 11: The power to go around Congress to launch unauthorized warsower.

919
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 5: They ignored the law and cut secret arms deals.

920
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 11: The Pentagon says millions of dollars worth of weapons were

921
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 11: turned over to the CIA for shipment to Iran. They

922
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 11: manufactured vast new executive powers for a war on terror

923
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 11: that would characterize Montanamobig as the least worst place we.

924
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 5: Could have selected.

925
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 6: The Obama administrations continuing a Bush Era of policy authorizing

926
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 6: the killing of US citizens abroad.

927
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 11: The goal of this master Plan was to create an

928
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 11: all powerful president, or, as some called it, the unitary executive.

929
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 9: You're not going to be a dictator, I said, no, no,

930
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 9: no other than day one.

931
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 11: So when a man longing to be a king took

932
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 11: the throne, he inherited unprecedented hours to get his way,

933
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 11: and those powers are now turning our world upside down.

934
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 11: Welcome to Master Planned Season two.

935
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 5: The Kingmakers. How could President?

936
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: First of all, that animation is fantastic.

937
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 7: Ben Clarkson, the artist is amazing. He's amazing.

938
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a sort of an AI could never

939
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: AI could never.

940
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 7: No, No, trust me.

941
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 11: The number of screenshots and storyboards that he put up

942
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 11: I saw him draw.

943
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 7: That was like, that's the kind of thing AI can

944
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 7: never do.

945
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is extraordinary. And one of the pieces I've

946
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,959
Speaker 2: been thinking about is, you know, on the one hand,

947
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 2: you've got you've got these actors, you know, Bill Barr

948
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: being another one, of these is really pushing forward the

949
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 2: idea of the unitary executive. But perhaps what also the

950
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: Founders didn't anticipate is the way that Congress would just

951
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: be like, Okay, sure, we don't actually want any responsibility.

952
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,479
Speaker 2: Go ahead, because the last time they took a vote

953
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: on war, the Iraq War, it ended up coming back

954
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: to bite, you know, the vast majority of them who

955
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: voted for it, bite them in the ass. So they're like,

956
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: we don't really want to take a vote on this war.

957
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: We would rather just you do it, and then down

958
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: the road, if it goes poorly, we can say it's

959
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: his fault and not have to, you know, face any

960
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 2: sort of political repercussions for it.

961
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 6: Well, and that in and of itself was the AMF

962
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 6: was such a broad delegation of power to the executive.

963
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 4: That plus it in that to Crystal's.

964
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 11: Point, it's such a good it's such a good point, right, Like,

965
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 11: Like I think the founders like they didn't get everything right, right,

966
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 11: Like I think this idea that the founder's got everything

967
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 11: right is is sort of this presumption and it's it's

968
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 11: not actually.

969
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: Like a religion, yeah, religious kind of faith.

970
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, And where I think they got things right. Okay.

971
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 11: Generally speaking, is that the Constitution as a document is

972
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 11: like afraid of concentrated power. That that's like the foundational

973
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 11: baked in, Like it's the theory is we need to

974
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 11: like disperse power a little bit because you literally.

975
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 7: Do not want one dude having all the power.

976
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 11: Okay, I think that's probably like good call, Like you

977
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 11: got it right. Where they didn't get it right, you're

978
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 11: at least for the modern era, is the presumption that

979
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 11: the branches would protect their own power. That whether it's

980
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 11: the courts or whether it's Congress, that the presumption was

981
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 11: that they would jealously people in those institutions would jealously

982
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 11: guard their power as an institution. And I think in

983
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 11: the modern era, what we've seen is that actually the institution,

984
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 11: especially when it comes to the Republicans, the institution that

985
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 11: is supreme for the Republicans is the Republican Party and

986
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 11: not the Presidency or the Congress or the courts. And

987
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 11: so no matter where you are in any of those institutions,

988
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 11: the Congress, the Courts, the Presidency, you're serving the larger institution,

989
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 11: which is the Republican Party. And so yes, you're willing

990
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 11: to like.

991
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 7: Be a judge.

992
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 11: The Supreme Court is constantly deferring to executive power when

993
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 11: a Republican is in the executive. Congress is constantly deferring

994
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 11: to the Trump administration when the Republicans control it. And

995
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 11: I do think your point, Crystal is so important that

996
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 11: that after the Iraq War, the Congress kind of figured out, like, hey,

997
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 11: instead of taking tough votes to stop anything, we can

998
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 11: just not vote at all. Like it's actually easier for

999
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 11: us to not vote at all because who knows when

1000
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 11: any kind of vote is going to come back to bite.

1001
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 11: Maybe maybe it's the next election cycle, but maybe it's

1002
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 11: like three election cycles from now, so they haven't wanted

1003
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 11: to vote. And I think that's like a really dangerous situation.

1004
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 11: Like it not everything was better in the past, but

1005
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 11: it was better I think when Congress felt an institutional

1006
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 11: prerogative to fight with the executive branch over who gets

1007
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 11: to decide things, because that creates like power and countervailing power,

1008
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 11: which is supposed to create some kind of balance.

1009
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 6: Which is a really good argument for getting rid of

1010
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 6: the philibus. To be honest, what happens with that? And

1011
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 6: I wanted to ask the cause war powers the intelligence community,

1012
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 6: and even just thinking about Watergate, all of that goes

1013
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 6: into it. When you hear, like as someone on the right,

1014
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 6: when you hear federal society world talk about unitary executive theory,

1015
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 6: a lot of what you hear is it's about the

1016
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 6: growth of the federal bureaucracy. The argument, I think charitably

1017
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 6: their argument would be that the sprawling federal bureaucracy needs

1018
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 6: to come under the power of the democratically elected president.

1019
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 6: And the example I always use with Ryan when we

1020
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 6: kind of get into debates about this is you wouldn't

1021
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 6: want given the revolving door like an Exon mobile executive

1022
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 6: or an Exon mobile, just regular staffer coming into the

1023
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 6: EPA and under a climate concerned president making decisions that

1024
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 6: are undermining the decision of the president, or the will

1025
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 6: of the president, or the or the policy of the president.

1026
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 6: So I was going to ask David, like, how you

1027
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 6: see the way that this has been intentionally set up

1028
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 6: and designed to tackle those kind of different arenas where

1029
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 6: executive power is concerned. There's more power, but there's also bureaucracy,

1030
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 6: but then there's also the intelligence community. It's a kind

1031
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 6: of a tangled mess. I was curious to get your

1032
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 6: take on it.

1033
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 7: It's a great set of questions.

1034
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 11: And look, look, I think let me preface this by saying,

1035
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 11: I think the Democrats, if they ever take back the presidency,

1036
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 11: I think one of the big questions is, Okay, all

1037
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 11: this power has been concentrated in the White House, do

1038
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 11: you use that power or do you use your power

1039
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 11: in office to not use it or relinquish it?

1040
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 5: Right?

1041
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 11: And I don't think it's an acceptable outcome to have

1042
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 11: where we're in this pattern where Republicans use all the

1043
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,280
Speaker 11: executive power that's there in an aggressive way and grab

1044
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 11: even more executive power, and then Democrats get in office

1045
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 11: and either spend their time not using that power or

1046
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 11: actually relinquishing it.

1047
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 7: Like that's a ratchet effect. That's bad. I think when

1048
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 7: it comes to domestic policy.

1049
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 11: The example that you laid out, Look, I think that

1050
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 11: the question over whether a president with a mandate has

1051
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 11: the power to do what they have promised voters to

1052
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 11: do is at the heart in part of the democracy crisis.

1053
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 11: Like when I hear that term democracy crisis, part of

1054
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 11: what I hear and what I think about is presidents

1055
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 11: get into office. I think it's the Democrats often get

1056
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 11: into office and then don't really make an effort to

1057
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 11: really deliver on their promises.

1058
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 7: That shreds the social contract.

1059
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 11: That harms people's belief that democracy matters, and ultimately sows

1060
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 11: the kind of disillusionment that someone like Donald Trump takes

1061
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 11: advantage of it and says, I will get in and

1062
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 11: I will use all the power to deliver everything I

1063
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 11: am promising. Now, I don't think Donald Trump's actually done that.

1064
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 11: I think he's betrayed a lot of what he promised.

1065
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 11: The war is a good example of that. But I

1066
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 11: think that's like the dynamic we're in. And I think,

1067
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 11: but I guess I would say this. I think there's

1068
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 11: like a middle ground between the Democrats not really using

1069
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 11: executive power and being deferential to the to quote unquote

1070
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 11: norms and Donald Trump so aggressively using executive power that

1071
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 11: it's like sort of completely unprecedented. And I think in

1072
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 11: some cases, you know, extra judicial, extra constitutional right like

1073
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 11: I'll give you, let me give you like one random example,

1074
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 11: like I think of the Obama presidency and I think, okay,

1075
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 11: here's a person who used aggressively, in an unprecedented way

1076
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 11: executive power to prosecute the drone war, to assert the

1077
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 11: right to put American citizens on a kill list, right, Like,

1078
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 11: that's a really really, really extreme view of executive authority,

1079
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 11: right to extra judicially execute American citizens, right.

1080
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 7: Okay.

1081
00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 11: I also think of the Obama administration not using existing

1082
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 11: unchallenged executive authority to change IRS regulations to close one

1083
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 11: of the biggest and most egregious tax loopholes on the books,

1084
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 11: the private equity tax loophole. I think of the Obama

1085
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 11: administration not using executive authority to require Fortune five hundred

1086
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 11: SEC regulated companies to disclose their dark money spending, something

1087
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 11: that the Obama administration could have done. So my point

1088
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 11: is is that I think there's like a middle ground

1089
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 11: here where Democrats get into office and use the existing

1090
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 11: unchallenged executive authority in ways that don't have to go

1091
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 11: beyond the Constitution, but are there for the taking. Now,

1092
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 11: one asterisk on this very quickly, which is I do

1093
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 11: think actually Joe Biden tried to do some of this

1094
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 11: at the agency level, like the FTC, the CFPB, And

1095
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 11: I think what's important to remember is that the opposition

1096
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 11: to that agenda, you know, anti trust enforcement et cetera,

1097
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 11: et cetera, will very quickly switch sides on their views

1098
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 11: of executive power when it's not their executive right. I

1099
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 11: mean it was like the concert, like the cut the

1100
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 11: Chamber of Commerce. Some Republicans were marching into court saying,

1101
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 11: you know, Joe Biden has no right to use the

1102
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 11: FTC or the CFPB and the way he's using it.

1103
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 11: And you're like, gi me, you guys are like the

1104
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 11: unitary executive Party, Like and I think this gets to

1105
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 11: the to the core of a problem here. It's like,

1106
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 11: you know, we're talking on the eve of the no

1107
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 11: Kings protest. My question for everyone is, Okay, do you

1108
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 11: not want a king or do you just not want

1109
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 11: the king that's not your king? Right, Like, let's really

1110
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 11: get to the issue here and let's really be honest

1111
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 11: about what each side actually wants. Do you do you

1112
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 11: not want kings or do you only not like the

1113
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 11: fact that it's not your king? I mean, I'm I'm

1114
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 11: like to be honest, I mean I don't want a king,

1115
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 11: but like I'm I'm torn on this question of like

1116
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 11: what ultimately needs to be done. I do think that

1117
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 11: at the cent or this again, I go back to

1118
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 11: it the democracy crisis. You're totally right, if a president

1119
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 11: gets elected promising climate policy and then is stuck with

1120
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 11: an EPA that's implementing exon mobiles agenda, right, Like, that

1121
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 11: is a that's not just an executive power executive branch problem.

1122
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 11: That's a democracy problem because the president has promised and

1123
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 11: gotten elected on those issues.

1124
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1125
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 2: Well, I mean FDR is a great example here. I mean,

1126
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 2: in some ways, it's kind of unavoidable to not just

1127
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: view the tools in like in the in theoretical terms

1128
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 2: of like this tool's good and that one's bad. I

1129
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 2: think it's kind of unavoidable to look at the content,

1130
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: you know, is the content of what is being done here,

1131
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: good or bad? Right, some of FDR's things were really bad, actually,

1132
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 2: but a lot of them on the economic front were

1133
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: very good, and they were very popular, and they were

1134
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 2: in accordance with the will of the people, which the

1135
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, up until he threatened them with court packing,

1136
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 2: was effectively blocking. So you know, it's it is a

1137
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 2: little bit tricky when you get down to it. And also,

1138
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 2: of course you raise the prospect very much of like, okay, well,

1139
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 2: if Republicans are throwing out the rules and doing whatever

1140
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 2: they want, and then Democrats are like, we're just gonna

1141
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 2: you know, stay within these boundaries. Then that's an asymmetric fight.

1142
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 7: So let me let me add there.

1143
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 11: Yeah, there's an interesting question about the independent agencies that's

1144
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 11: coming down the pike right now in the Supreme Court.

1145
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 11: And for those who don't know, there are a set

1146
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 11: of agencies that aren't just like other executive branch like

1147
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 11: the Department of Homeland Security HHS. Those are normal, regular,

1148
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 11: non independent executive branch agencies. President has total hiring and

1149
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 11: firing power over them. There are certain regulatory agencies, like

1150
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 11: the Federal Trade Commission that that were designed to be

1151
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 11: slightly more insulated from the political cycles, where the commissioners

1152
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 11: have you know, five year terms. It's harder to fire them.

1153
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 7: Uh.

1154
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 11: And and the Trump administration is trying to say that

1155
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 11: Trump can fire members of these independent agencies, and there's

1156
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 11: really like a constitutional question, right. They're trying to use

1157
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 11: the Constitution to supersede the idea that such these kinds

1158
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 11: of agencies.

1159
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 7: Can even exist.

1160
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 11: And this is where I like, I get the idea

1161
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 11: that the president gets elected and wants to implement policy

1162
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 11: and want and therefore needs to hire and fire. But

1163
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 11: I also think, like what's dangerous here is that the

1164
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 11: Congress and previous presidents have set up these particular agencies

1165
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 11: deliberately to be independent. And my point is, if you

1166
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 11: want to argue that that's bad, right, you want to argue, okay,

1167
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 11: and independent FDC is bad, pass new legislation to change

1168
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 11: the independence of the FTC. Don't start making constitutional arguments

1169
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 11: that say that Congress is not allowed to create independent agencies.

1170
01:02:59,520 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 7: Right.

1171
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 11: That's where I think we get into like when we're

1172
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 11: talking about a king. It's like, if you want to

1173
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 11: make the small d democratic argument that the SEC or

1174
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 11: the FTC are out of control and not letting presidents

1175
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 11: implement policies that they campaigned on, then pass legislation to

1176
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 11: change the structure of those agencies. Don't start making a

1177
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 11: unitary executive argument that says one line in the Constitution

1178
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 11: Article two means Congress is simply never allowed to create

1179
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 11: these kinds of agencies. I mean, I kind of think

1180
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 11: in a lot of ways those independent agencies, their independence

1181
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 11: has served the purpose that they were laid out, that

1182
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 11: they're supposed to be slightly insulated from the whims of

1183
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 11: this or that election because they are they're supposed to

1184
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 11: be more sort of empirical in their application. But let's

1185
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 11: have that debate rather than saying, yeah, these are not allowed,

1186
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 11: these are basically illegal.

1187
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're going to have an authoritarian leader,

1188
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 2: I want one that's a lot better than the once we're.

1189
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 6: Be getting lately.

1190
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 2: I'm looking at you know, I'm looking at China, like

1191
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 2: they seem pretty smarter over there. I mean, if we're

1192
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 2: gonna have no freedom of speech here either, I don't know.

1193
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 11: Maybe yeah, I mean problem, Well, we got a good

1194
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 11: we got a good king who makes good decisions. Then

1195
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 11: you know, four years later, you're not going you probably

1196
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 11: aren't going to get to like I think that's the

1197
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 11: theory of the constitution, like like like like for every

1198
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 11: good king you're gonna have, you're gonna have a really

1199
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 11: a bunch of really bad ones.

1200
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 2: Well, let me let me ask you about this. And uh,

1201
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: this is some some new news that is pretty interesting. Trump,

1202
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 2: according to the Wall Street Journal, told Inner Circle some

1203
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 2: mass deportation policies went too far. President directs a new approach,

1204
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 2: as some advisors believe immigration is no longer as strong

1205
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 2: a political issue for him. He's seeking to lower the

1206
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: profile of his mass deportation effort has directed his top

1207
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 2: advisors too adopt a new approach on one of the

1208
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: central campaign promises. They go on to say, in conversations

1209
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 2: with top advisers and his wife, Milania, Trump has become

1210
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 2: convinced that some of his administration's deportation policies went too far.

1211
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 2: Voters don't like the term mass deportation, and he's told

1212
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 2: them he wants to see more attention on arresting bad

1213
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 2: guys and less chaos in American cities. Court of people

1214
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 2: familiar with the matter, now, I think a lot of caveats, right. Uh, well,

1215
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 2: we'll see what the actual actions are. We will say

1216
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 2: there hasn't been another like city invasion like we saw

1217
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis. And to bring this back to you know,

1218
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,439
Speaker 2: to your reporting here in master plan, now it looks

1219
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 2: very clearly like the mass protests and mass resistance in

1220
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 2: Chicago and Minneapolis and other states and countries across in

1221
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 2: LA and other states and cities across the country, this succeeded,

1222
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 2: you know, it worked as a check. So Congress may

1223
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 2: have laid down, Uh, the Supreme Court laid out the

1224
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 2: red carpet for this, you know, bullshit, cruel and unusual bullshit,

1225
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 2: and but the people really, you know, rose up and

1226
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 2: made it very made it very difficult, and created a

1227
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 2: lot of public awareness. Where they're right that the politics

1228
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 2: of this have completely shifted since Trump came back in office.

1229
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 2: So so, even as they've consolidated in all this power

1230
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 2: in the executive branch, and even as this president and

1231
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 2: his cronies seem to act like they're never going to

1232
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 2: have to face voters again, which is kind of scary,

1233
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 2: how much of a check do the people still serve,

1234
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 2: you know, for democratic accountability on the unitary executive.

1235
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 11: It's a great question. I am heartened by the news

1236
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 11: this morning. I will say I do think that it's

1237
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 11: not a coincidence that Trump initially pulled the deployment in

1238
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 11: Minneapolis back when Democrats finally started talking about cutting off funding.

1239
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 11: I do think that's that's that's a little part of

1240
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 11: the great point, you know, I do think that like

1241
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 11: Congress's power of the purse.

1242
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: But why did Congress do that exactly because they were

1243
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 2: under pressure from the base. It wasn't just a domino nowhere.

1244
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 7: But that's right, Yeah, you're totally right.

1245
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 11: So it's like public pressure on Congress to use its

1246
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 11: actual power. It's unchallenged power of the power of the purse. Ultimately,

1247
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 11: all of that colludes to back a president office at

1248
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 11: least momentarily. I should mention I think this is important.

1249
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 11: Another important lesson when it comes to the power of

1250
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 11: the purse for the Iran war, that public pressure on

1251
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 11: Congress to not just pass resolutions or try to pass

1252
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 11: resolutions of disapproval of the war, but to actually defund

1253
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 11: the war is going to be incredibly, incredibly important. Like

1254
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 11: this idea that Democrats can can say I'm against the war,

1255
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:34,959
Speaker 11: but I'm going to vote for the two hundred billion

1256
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 11: dollars supplemental for the war is a lot of nonsense

1257
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 11: and everyone should be focused really on that specific thing.

1258
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 11: The Democrats trying to carve out this like middle ground,

1259
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 11: like you know, I can be against the war, but

1260
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 11: I don't want to quote unquote undermine the troops by

1261
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 11: defunding the war.

1262
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 7: That is a nonsense position.

1263
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 11: So I guess it's to say, the more pressure there

1264
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 11: is in public, the more it will create a more

1265
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 11: fortified opposition in Congress, and the more I think Donald

1266
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 11: Trump will be constrained. Now, I do think ultimately if

1267
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 11: Trump wants to continue seriously illegal, unconstitutional and wildly unpopular

1268
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 11: policies he can, and ultimately we have to mention it,

1269
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 11: like the question of impeachment should be real, Like I

1270
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 11: think this ultimately we are I think we're headed towards

1271
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 11: this question, especially on the Iran War, of if he

1272
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 11: never comes to Congress for a declaration of war, there

1273
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 11: is no explicit authorization, and this war drags beyond the

1274
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 11: War Powers Acts sixty to ninety day time threshold, there

1275
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 11: is a big question of like what to do. And

1276
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 11: what I worry about is like, if the Congress Act

1277
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:05,440
Speaker 11: actually passes the War Supplemental Bill, is that interpreted legally

1278
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 11: and certainly within the administration as the authorization they need?

1279
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 11: In other words, it's just a funding bill explicitly for

1280
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 11: the war. Does that become the Iran Wars Gulf of

1281
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,759
Speaker 11: Talking resolution? And if it does, then then you've taken

1282
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 11: a legal, a legal tool off the table.

1283
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if you guys saw Scott Jennings

1284
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 2: doing his thing on CNN yesterday and I can't remember

1285
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,719
Speaker 2: who was fighting with, but they got into this fight

1286
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 2: over whether this was a war or not, and he

1287
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 2: said America hasn't fought a war since World War II.

1288
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

1289
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean with that, that's where we are, like,

1290
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 11: we're still it's a military incursion, a military what I mean?

1291
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 2: And Iraq was, and Afghanistan was, and Vietnam was. I mean,

1292
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: it's like, you've got to be kidding. And whoever was?

1293
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 2: I wish I could give credit shame because off the

1294
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 2: top of my head and forgetting who it was. But

1295
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 2: he was, like, I think the veterans of Iraq, Afghanistan

1296
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 2: would have something to say about whether they were set

1297
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 2: to fight and die in a war or not. So

1298
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 2: you know what's interesting Orwellian abuse of language.

1299
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 11: Yes, so interesting that you bring this up. There was

1300
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 11: a debate inside of the Reagan administration that we uncovered

1301
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 11: in our reporting for Masterplan, in which it was John

1302
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 11: Roberts as a young lawyer. It was over whether to

1303
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 11: classify the Lebanon Military Operation and the Grenada Military Operation,

1304
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 11: both initially conducted without congressional authorization, whether to allow it

1305
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 11: to be classified as a war for purposes of providing

1306
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 11: veterans benefits and the like war combat war service benefits,

1307
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 11: to the to the to the soldiers who were in

1308
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 11: that and it was a debate over well, if we

1309
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 11: say they were wars and we didn't get a congressional

1310
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 11: authorization for a war, how to like, it's sort of

1311
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 11: a legal gray area. And I think, what's I bring

1312
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 11: it up only to say, look, these issues have been

1313
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 11: debated before inside of the executive branch, at least in

1314
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 11: like a serious way, Like it was interesting to see

1315
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 11: John Roberts taking the idea that Congress has war making

1316
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,719
Speaker 11: authority like that was a serious thing. I think we're

1317
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 11: so far away from that now where it's just presumed

1318
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 11: that Congress doesn't really have in any real way war

1319
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 11: making authority. And I just go back to this idea

1320
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 11: that really, ultimately what we're learning is the only real

1321
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 11: power that Congress has. It may there may be a

1322
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 11: line of the Constitution to declare war. The only real

1323
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 11: power it has here is the power of the purse.

1324
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 11: Like I just I know it's like it's it's it's

1325
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 11: so important to underscore.

1326
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 3: David. So if you're saying that democracy is the antidote

1327
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 3: to these this this master plan, well that seems like

1328
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 3: something that we have to solve them. I got to

1329
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 3: get rid of democracy. Where does this save Act fall

1330
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 3: into this master plan in terms of, you know, depressing votes,

1331
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 3: making it more difficult to vote.

1332
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 7: What is your reaction to the current savee plan? Do

1333
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 7: you think it will.

1334
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 6: Pass if Congress, actually the democratically elected representatis of Congress

1335
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 6: actually pass it.

1336
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:17,719
Speaker 4: Here's the question too.

1337
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 7: I know, I know.

1338
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 11: Well, look, I think the when we use the term

1339
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,640
Speaker 11: master plan, what we're really talking about is there's a

1340
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 11: handful of powerful interests, oligarchs, billionaires, et Cetera's corporations for

1341
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,959
Speaker 11: a very long time. If you're one of those those powers,

1342
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 11: you look at democracy as the problem, right because you

1343
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 11: need increasingly unpopular policies to maintain your wealth and power,

1344
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 11: to maintain a concentration of wealth and power in a

1345
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 11: small handful of a small.

1346
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:54,919
Speaker 7: Group of players.

1347
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 11: One way you do that, that was season one of

1348
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 11: Master Plana. Legalize corruption so that the elections can be bought,

1349
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 11: so that it is less a one person, one vote

1350
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 11: democracy and more a one dollar, one vote democracy, so

1351
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 11: that the election choices, no matter what they are, deliver

1352
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 11: the unpopular policies you need. The second thing you do

1353
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 11: is you try to concentrate power in one person's hands,

1354
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 11: the president, so that the president so you don't have

1355
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 11: to deal with the Congress.

1356
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 7: You don't really have to deal with with.

1357
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 11: The courts, Like that's hard to Congress members have to

1358
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 11: go back to their districts every two years and deal

1359
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 11: with actual people. So part of the way to subvert

1360
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 11: democracy is to concentrate power. The finals part of this

1361
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 11: is to simply make it harder, if not impossible, for

1362
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 11: people to actually even vote, right I think, and I

1363
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 11: think that's you know, what the Save Act represents. And

1364
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 11: I think it's easy to like presume that the motive

1365
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,680
Speaker 11: here is just like you know, doctor evil motives, right,

1366
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 11: Like it's just people like like the people pushing this

1367
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 11: just are evil because they want to be evil.

1368
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 7: No, it's actually a motive of self interest.

1369
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:13,520
Speaker 11: We want to maintain power knowing that the policies that maintain.

1370
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:14,560
Speaker 7: Our power are unpopular.

1371
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 11: So we have to do all of these things to

1372
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 11: essentially keep that power because if we allow an actually

1373
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 11: flourishing democracy to operate, we're not going to get the

1374
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 11: unpopular policies that we want. I mean, Lewis Powell in

1375
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 11: the Powell Memo in Season one Master Plan, I mean

1376
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 11: he lays this out, I mean literally, like the problem

1377
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 11: that the conservative movement saw at the time was the

1378
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 11: government has become too responsive to the people. Like the

1379
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 11: government is passing all the Ralph Nader is getting all

1380
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 11: these things past that we the oligarchy, do not like.

1381
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 11: And the problem is that the government has become too

1382
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 11: responsive to what the public wants.

1383
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 7: And I think ultimately this question of.

1384
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 11: We originally struck a balance, like the Constitution was supposed

1385
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 11: to strike a balance, like you don't want the hot

1386
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 11: passions of every whim that the public wants to be

1387
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 11: legislated at any time, because that can get out of it.

1388
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 7: You know, that's mob rule.

1389
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 11: So there needs to be like some you know, small

1390
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 11: are republican checks on that problem, you know, representative democracy.

1391
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:24,840
Speaker 11: But I think we've swung so far to the other

1392
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 11: side that we're now at the stage of talking about

1393
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 11: making it harder for people just to cast votes. I mean,

1394
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 11: that's really how far this plan has gone.

1395
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 2: David, Where can people find Masterplan Season two and where

1396
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,200
Speaker 2: can they support you guys over at lever News.

1397
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 7: Uh, thanks for asking.

1398
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 11: Go onto your phone right now, pull up your podcast app,

1399
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,560
Speaker 11: whichever one is your favorite app. Just type in Masterplan, subscribe,

1400
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 11: go listen to episode one. If you don't have a

1401
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 11: podcast app, just go to Masterplan podcast dot com.

1402
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 7: All all the episodes will be.

1403
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,680
Speaker 11: There that and we are the lever so you can

1404
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 11: find all of our reporting at levernews dot com. And

1405
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,759
Speaker 11: just a huge thank you to Breaking Points and Breaking

1406
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 11: Points as audience for always being such great supporters of

1407
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 11: our work and letting your audience know about our work.

1408
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 11: We are independent investigative journalists. It's not easy to get

1409
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 11: our work, our work out there, but you guys are

1410
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 11: a huge help and we really appreciate it.

1411
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 6: Well, we have podcast Your podcasts are incredible.

1412
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 2: Sure they are really excellent.

1413
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 4: Storytelling is so good.

1414
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 7: I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

1415
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 2: Great to see us always, David, Great to see you guys.

1416
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 7: Thanks again.

1417
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 3: All right, that'll do it for us here in the

1418
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 3: first half of the show. If you want to see

1419
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 3: the second half, y'all know the deal. Emily, where do

1420
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 3: they go?

1421
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 6: Breakingpoints dot com?

1422
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 4: Of course? Where else?

1423
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 7: Of course?

1424
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 2: Where read the Breaking Points twenty six though, so sorry, guys.

1425
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 4: They've been liberated. They're taking Cuba with Ryan.

1426
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 7: That's right.

1427
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 2: One last thing before we get over the premium section, though,

1428
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 2: Thank you to everybody who' submitted questions for Sager for

1429
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 2: the Joe Ken interview. I know he was going over them, Griffin,

1430
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure you dug into them as well, and he

1431
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 2: was saying, like, there's actually a lot of really good

1432
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 2: questions here, so really appreciate that input. And if you

1433
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 2: want to be able to, you know, contribute to such

1434
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 2: things in the future, breakpoints dot com that's how you

1435
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 2: do it.

1436
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, start doing our job for us, really

1437
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 3: good stuff.

1438
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 2: Yes, please pay us money and then also do our

1439
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 2: job for us.

1440
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 4: Created.

1441
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 2: How is this pitch going?

1442
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 6: Yes, this is going perfect. We should in an all

1443
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 6: credit to soccer. He created a massive list of his

1444
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 6: own questions for Joe Kent and then he got great

1445
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 6: audience questions and now there's a great synergy happening behind

1446
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 6: the scenes.

1447
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, yes, all right, we'll see y'all in the

1448
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 3: second half.

1449
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: Hey, if you like that video, hit the like button

1450
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Speaker 1: or leave a comment below. It really helps get the

1451
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 1: show to more people.

1452
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Speaker 2: And if you'd like to get the full show add

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Speaker 2: free and in your inbox every morning, you can sign

1454
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Speaker 2: up at breakingpoints dot com.

1455
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 7: That's right at the full show.

1456
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 1: Help support the future of independent media at breakingpoints dot com.