1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: Chuck and this is stuff you should know. It's just 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: Josh and Chuck today. Yeah, that's all right, don't freak out, Chuck. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: We're gonna make it. Just sorry. 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: I'm just glad we're recording. This is just a little 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: inside baseball here. This is our third attempt at this recording. Sessh. 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, well you diffuse my inside joke to you that 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: I didn't have enough time to prepare for this episode. 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: So, yeah, my internet went out because of a windstorm 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: last week, and then we were like, you were kind 12 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: enough to be like, we'll just do it next Thursday. 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: And then yesterday your internet had problems, and I said, well, 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: let's just do it tomorrow morning, because you know, Friday 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: morning at eight fifty five is when the voice is 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: in perfect shape. 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: Right, which was also very kind of you. So we've 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: been kind to one another throughout this ordeal. 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: At least you got to do that. People. If you 20 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: want to stay married. 21 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, you want the other person to hold your hand, 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: you'd better be kind. 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: But I'm excited to finally and you know, probably it 24 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: was probably good that I had a lot more time 25 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: with this, because this is one of those sort of 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: thought experimentee, get your brain in the right frame of 27 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: mind kind of episodes, and we love doing these, and 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: this is going to be a good one. 29 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So what we're talking about today, Chuck, 30 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: is the Silurian hypothesis, which if I could do anything 31 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: with this thing, I would rename it. I'd be like, guys, 32 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: that was a terrible decision. 33 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: I keep listening everybody, so right, I promise is interesting. 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: So the whole thing came out of we'll explain in 35 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: a second, but we should probably talk about where it 36 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: came from and why we don't like this name. The 37 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: whole thing came out of a meeting between a guy 38 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: named Adam Frank who's an astrophysicist at the University of Rochester, 39 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: and a guy named Gavin Schmidt, who's the big wig 40 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: director for the Goddard Institute for Space Studies, a NASA joint. Yeah, 41 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: and Adam Frank went to Gavin Schmidt and said, hey, 42 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out if we could find ancient 43 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: defunct civilizations elsewhere in you know, off of Earth. What 44 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: would I look for? And the reason he was doing this. 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: This is a it's an answer to the family paradox, 46 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 2: where is everybody? Well, one answer is, well, they were here, 47 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: but now they all died out. So Adam Frank is 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: looking for evidence that they were there. And Gavin Schmidt said, 49 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: let me just stop you right there and up the 50 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 2: ante here. 51 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: Well, actually, you know what Gavin Schmidt said. What he said, 52 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: let me tell you something, Professor Frank hey, and Professor 53 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: Frank said, oh god, I had a dime for every 54 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: time somebody did that, right, so so close. Yeah, Schmidt 55 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: was like, hey, buddy, would you say I'll one. 56 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: Up, you'll up at okay, up. 57 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: The ante here? What if it's planet Earth? And what 58 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: if there were ancient civilizations here? My friend? Yeah, and 59 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: they said check please. 60 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, Adam Frank just vomited directly all over Gavin Smith's desk, 61 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: very famously. 62 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think they sort of started chatting 63 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: about this thing, and we should point out that, you 64 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: know what we're gonna They wrote a paper. We'll get 65 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: to that in a second, and they named it Silurian hypothesis. 66 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: But neither one of them think like, oh I think 67 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: this is what happened. It's more, you know, it's a 68 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: thought experiment. It's what happens when two remarkably intelligent people 69 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: get together sometimes and take LSD. 70 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: One of the other things about it that I think 71 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: makes it worthwhile too. First of all, these guys are 72 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: the first scientists to seriously explore the idea which you 73 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: can apply science to anything like that, and sure they 74 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: even though they don't think it's correct, they don't rule 75 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: it out. Yeah, you can't rule it out. There's not 76 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: enough information to rule it out right. 77 00:03:58,720 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 78 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: But the other thing that it does is that it 79 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: provides kind of like a guide to see what we're 80 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: doing now, what we're going to leave in the far 81 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: future as well. 82 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so. I imagine they went to another venue, 83 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: they went to a bar afterward to have a drink, 84 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: keep this party going, and they were like, well, you know, 85 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: there's been enough time for something like this to have happened, 86 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: because when you look at the fossil record, the oldest 87 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: thing that we know of is a cyanobacteria fossil that's 88 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: about three and a half billion years old that was 89 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: from the ocean. And if you're talking about complex life, 90 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: then you only have to go back about five hundred 91 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: and forty million years ago to the Cambrian explosion. So 92 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: like anything beyond that was you know, stuff like soundo 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: bacteria that we know of at least, so any prior 94 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: intelligent species wouldn't theoretically be older than that Cambrian explosion. 95 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, they call it an explosion because everything went from 96 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: single celled organisms like you were saying, to like basically 97 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 2: all the types of animals on the planet today. Yeah, 98 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: just like it exploded. It's just the best name for it. 99 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: It really can't add to that. But there's another guy, 100 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: another character we need to add here, and his name 101 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: is Jason Wright. 102 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: I like this guy. 103 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 2: He's an astronomer at Penn State. And he said, whoa, 104 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: whoa guys, And this is in a separate paper that 105 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: I think even predated the Silurian hypothesis paper. 106 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: He was sitting next to them overhearing them at the bar. 107 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: Right, they were like covering their work while exactly so, 108 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 2: Jason Wright says, not to them directly, but in general, 109 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: he's like, Okay, we don't know that you have to 110 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: stop at the Cambrian explosion to look for intelligent life 111 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: on Earth. In the past. And the reason why is 112 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: because we have a really like that's using a really 113 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 2: limited definition of life. That's using the kind of life 114 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: that has certain body plans with the cent nervous system. 115 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: Some have like backbones, some don't, some are jellyfish. Doesn't matter, Like, 116 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: what if there's other kinds of life out there? What 117 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: if some of those single celled organisms had gotten together 118 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: and formed like a hive mind colony, right that was 119 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: capable of intelligent industrialization. We wouldn't know that, like think 120 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: out of the box, guys. 121 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because you know, it's hard to wrap your 122 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: head around all we know is us and what happened 123 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: with the development of how we got to now. Yeah, 124 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: So he's like, you know, turn that off, everybody, because 125 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: that could have happened what Josh Clark just said. And 126 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: they were like, who's Josh Clark? And they said, you'll 127 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: find out sooner enough, he said, Or maybe there was 128 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: another like Cambrian like explosion that happened like way way 129 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: back before that, and maybe it's maybe they didn't leave 130 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: any fossils behind, or so few that we didn't find them, 131 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: or maybe you know, that was a cataclysm that destroyed everything, 132 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: like there was this complex life. It destroyed everything, and 133 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: it kind of just rebooted the system with these single 134 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: celled organisms, and that's what we know is the start, right, Yeah, 135 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: And they yeah, whoa buddy. 136 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: I know it's pretty cool. 137 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: Can I pay for this guy's drink? 138 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? Can I buy you a beer? So Gavin Schmidt 139 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: and Adam Frank are like, we think we're onto something here. 140 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: Let's let's kind of flush this out a little more. 141 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: And I think it was Gavin Schmidt who suggested they 142 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: call it the Silurian hypothesis. And the reason we call 143 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: it the Silurian that's a I think a period or 144 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: an epoch or something in Earth's history five hundred something 145 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 2: million years ago. But they weren't naming it after that. 146 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: They were naming it after a race of lizard people 147 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: who are characters on Doctor Who. 148 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you watch Do you have any doctor who experience? 149 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: None? I feel like it's like this whole thing out 150 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: there that's waiting for me to meet it, and I'm like, 151 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: I don't know. 152 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I've never I don't know anything about it. 153 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: But I just caveat that because there may be emails 154 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: coming in that are like they're not lizard like people. 155 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: They are this like, I have no idea. I looked 156 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: at pictures of them like you did, and they look 157 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: like lizard reptilian type creatures. 158 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: They do. So that I mean for all INtime process 159 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: is if you're not super into Doctor Who, they're. 160 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: Lizard people, I really really hope. 161 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: So the reason that they named it after this race 162 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: of lizard people and Doctor Who is that on the 163 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: in the Doctor Who universe, they lived about three hundred 164 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: million years ago, which would actually make them place them 165 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: in the Carboniferous period, not the Silurian and apparently all 166 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: Doctor Who fans are aware. 167 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: Of that because they're all Doctor Frank's right. 168 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: But they supposedly survived a bunch of cataclysms here on 169 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: Earth by moving underground hibernating until things cooled off a 170 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: little bit. And now they're back in the Doctor Who universe, 171 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: so they would like the ancient civilization. And so there's 172 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: two reasons why I find the unfortunate that they named 173 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: it after that. One it just makes the whole thing 174 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 2: silly to a degree. Apologies to Doctor Who fans, but 175 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: it it like this is an actual, like academic exercise. 176 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 2: They're engaged in. It has a silly thing out of 177 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: the gates. 178 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: It's a tea. I mean again, we're not saying doctor 179 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: who is silly, but it'd be like us coming up 180 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: with like the Family Ties hypothesis or something right right, 181 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: Like it's named after a TV show. 182 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: It says like before you even read the abstract, don't 183 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 2: take this seriously. But it's meant to be taken seriously. 184 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: It's not tongue in cheek at all. The paper isn't 185 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: at least or the hypothesis. The other reason why is 186 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: because every single author who wrote any piece or article 187 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 2: about this hypothesis afterward uses a hypothetical lizard race to 188 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: discuss what we would be looking for. And it's so obnoxious, man, 189 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: So we're not going to do that. We're not even 190 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: going to try to guess what they would be like 191 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: or look like. They're just the hypothetical ancient industrialized civilization 192 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: that we're looking for. So if we're looking for something 193 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: like that here on earth, Chuck, what would we start 194 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 2: to look for? 195 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: Well? And I mean those are sort of the questions 196 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: these guys started. I guess they went to another bar 197 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: and started asking. They're pretty sloshed at this point, that's 198 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: gonna say, and they start asking even more questions. I 199 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: guess after they got over the I mean, hopefully they 200 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: didn't have to argue about Silurian. I'm praying they were 201 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: both Doctor Who fans and that doctor Frank didn't have 202 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: to convince Oh Gavin, you know, I think it might. 203 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: Have been the other way around, and based on titles, 204 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 2: I think Frank would have had to go along with it. 205 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, either way, they started to sort of ask 206 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: these big questions, and what it really comes down to 207 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: are two main questions, what should we be looking for? 208 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: And in order to think about what should we be 209 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: looking for, a good place to start art is well, 210 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: what are we leaving behind that a future archaeologist or 211 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: geologist might look for? 212 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 213 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: And when they started poking around a little bit, they 214 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: found that, you know, there's some stuff here that that 215 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: does bear a resemblance to like possible signals that something 216 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: could have happened as far as an ancient industrialized civilization 217 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: that just went away. 218 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 2: Like you can't hear it, but my jaw just dropped. 219 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: All right, Josh's jaws on the floor. We're going to 220 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: seek some medical attention, and we'll take a little break 221 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. 222 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: Definitely, child. 223 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: Y s K. 224 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: Stucks. 225 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: I don't know that you know it stuck and sucks that. 226 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: It's a great name. 227 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: I could remember. 228 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: That's the name of it. It's a great name. All right, 229 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: stucks net with an X. 230 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: All Right, So we're back, and we were talking about 231 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: where you might or what you might look for if 232 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: you're looking for a previous advanced civilization and sort of 233 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: the obvious first place. You know, we're going to start 234 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: easy and get a little more complex here. It's just 235 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: like all the all the physical stuff, Like if you're 236 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: an industrialized, intelligent civilization, you're going to have industry and 237 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: cities and factories and things and skyscrapers and buildings, and 238 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: it's hard to wrap your head around all that stuff 239 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: being gone one day when you're living amongst it. But 240 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: like the life of a skyscraper is about fifty years 241 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: without human intervention to you know start. You know, that's 242 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: why when you go to New York, every building has 243 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: scaffolding on it practically, because you have to keep those 244 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: buildings up. They start falling apart because of corrosion and erosion. 245 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: So without that, even though it's hard to imagine, everything 246 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: will eventually be gone. And we're talking about in the 247 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: grand scheme of the big, big timeline, so like hundreds 248 00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: of millions of years. 249 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but for a city itself, I mean, apparently 250 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: water intrusion is a big problem for all of those 251 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: tall buildings as well as erosion and corrosion and all that. 252 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: They're like, it's not going to take millions of years 253 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: for them to go away. We're talking thousands to tens 254 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: of thousands of years. 255 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and our. 256 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: Cities will be just completely rubble, especially ones that are 257 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 2: built on like solid ground or rocky ground well above 258 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: sea level, because those are the ones that are most 259 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: like open and left vulnerable to the processes of erosion 260 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: that sweep across Earth's surface and wipe the whole thing clean. 261 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, it wouldn't take very long. The stuff that's 262 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 2: underground might be a little more easily preserved, like they're 263 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: you know, any under any city, there's a huge network 264 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: of infrastructure of pipes and cables and tunnels and hard 265 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: hats and stuff like that that conceivably, even after the 266 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: city above is long gone, that stuff could could be 267 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: preserved to a certain degree. 268 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And we should shout out this guy 269 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: that did you dig him up? Or was that Livia 270 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: I think found him. Yeah. His name is it starts 271 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: with the J, but as yan Zeala Schevitz, and he's 272 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: a paleontologist at the University of Lester. Nice work, oh 273 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: boy in the UK. And we shout him out because he, 274 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, he sort of let us down this path 275 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: of looking underground, potentially looking underwater because things would just 276 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: deteriorate a lot slower down there. But he's just a guy. 277 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: I just want to recommend if you're if you want 278 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: to get into some heady sort of YouTube stuff, just 279 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: google yan Zella Schevitz. It's z A l A s 280 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: I E V I c Z. Because I went down 281 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: a little because we had so much extra time, just 282 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a rabbit hole. This guy, he 283 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: has a bunch of YouTube where he speaking to the 284 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: university groups and classrooms and things, and he's just super 285 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: smart and interesting. 286 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, the stuff he's into is super cool too. But yeah, 287 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: he himself gets it across really well. 288 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: I like it. 289 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he points out he was the one he 290 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: I think he chose San Francisco. Like San Francisco's a goner. 291 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: It's not gonna be around very long once we're gone. 292 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: And by the way, I keep saying once we're gone. 293 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: Remember that amazing two thousand and seven book The World 294 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: Without Us by Alan Weisman. 295 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Never heard of it? 296 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: Oh, yes you have. It was like all the thing 297 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: back in two thousand and seven. They made like TV 298 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: shows about it and all that. So this guy basically 299 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: went to the trouble of figuring out in five years, 300 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 2: ten years, fifty years, one hundred years, thousand and so on. 301 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: That sounds familiar what the planet would be like, yeaf 302 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: if humans just suddenly vanished, And like he goes into 303 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: detail of like the processes of erosion and crosion, what 304 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: effects it's going to happen. It's just so fascinating. 305 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: That's super cool. 306 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is super cool. Like the series, at least 307 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: one series I think on like Science Channel or something 308 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: like that was what was worth watching too. But that's 309 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: I mean, that has a lot to do with what 310 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: we're talking about. So the top side city's gone, the 311 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: stuff underneath might be preserved, but the cities that are 312 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 2: built along water and there's a lot of cities that 313 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 2: are built along water. Yeah, they like say New Orleans 314 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: is actually built below sea level. When people are gone 315 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: from New Orleans, New Orleans is gonna go away really quick, 316 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: but it will probably get preserved or at least covered over, 317 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: if not preserved by a lot of the muck, the 318 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: delta muck that's brought down the Mississippi River, and that 319 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: will could conceivably create the conditions to preserve the whole 320 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: city in some form of fashion. 321 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: Totally. But and you know, a lot of the thought 322 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: experiment is like introducing things and poking holes in it. 323 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: There's not a lot, like you know, if you lived 324 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: in an urban area. It's kind of hard to think 325 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: that there's not much urban area in the world, but 326 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: there really isn't. I think the liberal estimates have it 327 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: at about a little less than three percent, like two 328 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: point seven two point eight percent of the world has 329 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: been urbanized. Some people put it as low as one percent. 330 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: So there's there's a lot of just land out there still. 331 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: So you're looking if you're looking for an ancient civilization, 332 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: I mean, who's not to say that it could have 333 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: been like fifty percent of the earth, But chances are 334 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: it would be something a little more like what we're doing. 335 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 2: For sure, And so like you were saying, like, that's 336 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 2: one of the cool things about this as a thought experiment, 337 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: Like you raise this point and then you like poke 338 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: holes in it, then sometimes you can kind of support 339 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 2: it instead. And so, like a legitimate question would be, like, 340 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 2: why are we assuming that an ancient civilization from millions 341 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: of years ago in Earth's history had cities? Yea, and 342 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: point the reason why if they have any kind of intelligence. Typically, 343 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: the more of an intelligent organiz you put together, the 344 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: more advanced it becomes. Like twelve thousand years ago, there 345 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: was something like fifteen million people across all of planet 346 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 2: Earth tops. But then as we started to grow in 347 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: density thanks to agriculture and animal domestication, all of a sudden, 348 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: our technology started to develop at a really rapid pace geologically speaking, 349 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: and now here we are. So we could assume that 350 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,239 Speaker 2: there'd be some form of density, because you need x 351 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: number of intelligent organisms to advance to an industrialized civilization, 352 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: one would imagine, So there's actually a legitimate reason to 353 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: think that they would have cities that we could look 354 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 2: for the problem is this, Chuck, and you know this 355 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: as well as I do. We'll see the Earth does 356 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 2: not like things like cities and ruins or fossils. Let's 357 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 2: talk about fossils. 358 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that seems to be the next best 359 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: place to start looking. If let's say the buildings are gone, 360 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: fossils are or how we know what happened in our 361 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: distant past. But fossils are tough, just because of how 362 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: rare they are and how hard it is to make one, 363 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: and how sort of lucky it is that they happen 364 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: to begin with, and that we find them. The t 365 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: rex is a great example, just a little like back 366 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: in the envelope math. Some estimates say that somewhere in 367 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: the neighborhood of twenty thousand t rexes at any given 368 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: time during their run, we're walking stomping around planet Earth 369 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: with their tiny little baby arms. They were around for 370 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: about two and a half million years. That comes out 371 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: to roughly one hundred and twenty seven thousand generations on 372 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: the lifespan of a t rex. So we're talking total, roughly, 373 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: of course, about two and a half billion individual t 374 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: rexes that lived and died at any point in their history, 375 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: and we only found fifty fossilized skeletons, which is about 376 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: two millions of one percent of the total population. 377 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I should forewarn you that two millions of one 378 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: percent is my math personally, but I did use an 379 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 2: online percentage calculator like three different times to make sure 380 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: so it's it's accurate. 381 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: My friend, Oh, I know the math people are always 382 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: checking checking you. I was about say, getting your back, 383 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: but really trying to. 384 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: Prove you're getting I got a target on my back, 385 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 2: that's what they're trying to get. 386 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: Uh. But you know the movie Jurassic Park, as silly 387 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: as some of that stuff was with great movie, don't 388 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: get me wrong, but you know the the mosquito being 389 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: covered in amber, Like if you if you look at 390 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: that movie, like that one mosquito got trapped in amber. 391 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what we're talking about here, is 392 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: just sort of the dumb luck of the fossil happening 393 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: to begin with a and then that fossil that's buried 394 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: eventually getting pushed up to the Earth's surface where we 395 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: can find it, right but within the window between it 396 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: popping up and it being findable to it eroding to 397 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: where it's not findable anymore. It's like it's it's all. 398 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why we don't have, you know, billions 399 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: and billions of fossils, is because it's just really rare 400 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: to make one and find one. 401 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, not just making one, but yes, finding one. It's 402 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: all a product of time and space and a really 403 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: complex formula. And I saw an article called how Can 404 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: I Become a Fossil? By John Pickerel from twenty eighteen 405 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: on BBC really well worth reading. 406 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: Did it start listening to the Doobie Brothers. 407 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: Nice, Oh yeah, rip Dicky Bets. 408 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: Huh well not Almond brothers, but sure, well yeah, I 409 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: know I knew that, but yeah, okay, I mean they're 410 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: both brothers. Yeah yeah, same time period, Rip Dicky Bets. 411 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: That was that was a tough one. 412 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 2: If you had been in my brain, it would have 413 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: been no, I got yeah, of course. 414 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: And it's also nine twenty. 415 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: So John Pickerell cited an estimate that one tenth of 416 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 2: one percent of all the species that have ever existed 417 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: has had one of their individuals fossilized. Oh wow, so 418 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 2: just really tiny, tiny percentages of fossils are ever created. 419 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 2: But and also I got to just say this quote too. 420 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: There's another article called the scene as a joke. 421 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought you were going to skip this one. 422 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: This is great. 423 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. A guy named Peter Brannan who's a science writer, 424 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: wrote it, and basically he's explaining like just how insignificant 425 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 2: humans have been on Earth, even as much as we've 426 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 2: affected Earth. It's just how insignificant it actually is, and 427 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 2: how easily Earthball shake our our stuff off. Yeah, but 428 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: he had this great quote. I think you should say it. 429 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: Oh, okay, do you know where he's from so I 430 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: can prepare. 431 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: No, let's say Austria, Cherk. 432 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's sort of German. I'm just 433 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: going to read him as American. This is this is 434 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: a great quote. Each fossil was its own miracles, sampled 435 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: randomly from almost two hundred million years of history. A 436 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: few stray, wind blown pages of a library. 437 00:22:59,359 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 2: Isn't that great? 438 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? That really drives it home. 439 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 2: It really does. So hats off to Peter Brandon and 440 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: John Pickerel. Definitely go read those and also go watch 441 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: youtubes of Yon Zelhevich, z Lushevich. 442 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: Right, Zela Schevitz kind of likevitz. 443 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: Right but with a Z. 444 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 445 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 2: So all of that said, though, we have discovered really 446 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: really old fossils. The oldest hominid our ancestor, the oldest 447 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: indisputable ancestor to humans, Australipithecus and amensis, was walking around 448 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 2: four and a half almost four and a half million 449 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: years ago, and we have a skeleton of that guy. 450 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 2: So as miraculous as fossilization and discovery of fossils is, 451 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 2: it does happen. 452 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And that's hominids are our old buddy. Yan 453 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: Zelisovitch is like, you know what else could happen is 454 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: we're creating a bunch of potential techno fossils as we advance, 455 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: Like somebody could find a smartphone one day, somebody could 456 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: find a grocery bag that's been fossilized. Sure, the more 457 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: likely thing that's going to be found is not some 458 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: smartphone that you could plug in and then reboot. 459 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: Right, they'd be like, let's see what pictures this guy. 460 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: But it might be something like a brick or a 461 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: glass bottle that's you know, that clearly human made, that's 462 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: like artificial in shape, and it may be stamped with 463 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: like a company name or something like that. Like something 464 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: like that is more probable for a future anthropology archaeologist 465 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: to find as a techno fossil. Yeah, so, or plastic, right. 466 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: Plastic is another good one. We actually don't know how 467 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: long it takes plastic to break down to its constituent parts. 468 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 2: We know that it breaks down into really really small particles, 469 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 2: but there's still like microparticles of plastic. It's like intact 470 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: particles of plastic. Right, And if a future like race 471 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 2: discovered our plastic, they'd be like, this is really bizarre. Yeah, 472 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: because by definition, the plastic we make is artificial. There 473 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 2: are like polymers in nature like cellulose that are an 474 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 2: analog to our plastic, but all the plastic we make 475 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: is not found in nature. So if they found that, 476 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: they'd be like, this is kind of weird, what's going 477 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: on with this? 478 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 479 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: And then chicken bones too, chuck, hmmm. 480 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen there was an Instagram account it 481 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: may have been called Atlantic Chicken Bones that we're just 482 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: these great pictures of chicken bones in parking lots and 483 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: sidewalks all over Atlanta. 484 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: Right, So that's a really great point. There's the people 485 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: who are like all bully on the anthroposceine, the idea 486 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: that the humans are creating our own geological era or epoch, say, 487 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 2: like chicken bones are probably a pretty good bet for 488 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: like fossilized evidence of our presence. Because we raise and 489 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 2: kill so many chickens at Box the Mine, their bones 490 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: get everywhere, and they are anatomically different from all other 491 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: kinds of chickens because we've bred them to be different, 492 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 2: like have huge breasts and not be able to walk 493 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: in all sorts of terrible stuff. So if you found 494 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 2: other chicken bones in the fossil record, and then you 495 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 2: found our broiler chicken bones, you'd be like, what is this? 496 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: And also why are they in Antarctica? 497 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: Right? I also want to point out, since I brought 498 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: up Atlanta chicken bones, I am a lover of fried chicken, 499 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: as you know. Yeah, it's probably my favorite food. And 500 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: I have been known to have car chicken. 501 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: As long as there's no shower chicken, I'm still that's 502 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: still fine on the sand that. 503 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 1: No, you want to keep it crispy, you don't want 504 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: any humidity in there. But I've always resisted the urge 505 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: to toss my chicken bones because I have dogs, and 506 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: I walk dogs, and if you're not paying attention, that 507 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: dog can snap up at chicken bone on the sidewalk 508 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: pretty easily. So just a psa there, try and keep 509 00:26:58,800 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: those chicken bones in the box. 510 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and chicken bones can splinter so readily that it 511 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 2: can really hurt your dog's throat stomach. You don't want 512 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 2: a dog eating chicken bones. 513 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, did I ever tell you this will be 514 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: quick about when my deceased dog Buckley ate an entire 515 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: drummet that fell off the grill. No, it popped off 516 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: many years ago Buckley left us, But I looked down. 517 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, shoot, chicken bone or chicken drummet, 518 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: and it was just gone. And it was gone so fast, 519 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: and Buckley was there, but I was like, he wasn't 520 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: chewing or evening. I was like, what happened to that thing? 521 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: Ten minutes later? Oh no, he barfs up a hole. 522 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: He swallowed it whole, a whole chicken drummet that was 523 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: still steaming from the heat of the grill. 524 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 2: So good. 525 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: So it was like, I mean, thank god he did that, 526 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: because that would not have been good. 527 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: No. 528 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, he swallowed that thing like a pill, and then. 529 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: When he threw up, he wiped his mouth. 530 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: He's like, totally right, yeah, I think he thought it 531 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: was worth it. 532 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: So I said something earlier, Chuck, we were talking about ruins, fossils, 533 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 2: all that stuff. I said that Earth doesn't really like 534 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and I was right. 535 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: Are you setting me up? 536 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? 537 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, because here on Earth we have plate tectonics, 538 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: we have a situation where if you're talking about the 539 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: ocean crust, it subducts below the lighter continental crust and 540 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: it's going to push everything down, down, down toward the 541 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: mantle where it melts and then eventually comes back up 542 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: via like a land volcano, maybe an undersea volcano, to 543 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: form a new crust. And it's just like this this giant, 544 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: super super slow recycling conveyor belt. 545 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it takes I think, on average, about two hundred 546 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: and fifty million years for new crust to go through 547 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: that whole cycle. That's just on average. It can take 548 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of years longer. Yeah, take less, but 549 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: that's just kind of generally how slow it is. The 550 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: point is is that after X number of millions of years, 551 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 2: that crust is what and everything attached to it is 552 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: totally gone. Once it hits that mantle, it doesn't discriminate 553 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: everything gets melted. Everything gets melted in the middle. What 554 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: about on land, Well, land is not subject to the 555 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: forces of like subduction, right, but it does have that 556 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: erosion through wind and water, and everything just kind of 557 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 2: gets recycled in its own way. Plus also the plates 558 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: that do collide with one another, and there's you know, 559 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 2: continental fault lines obviously too, that produce earthquakes when they collide. 560 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: The stuff anywhere near those edges gets all kinds of 561 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: messed up. Yeah, and that's how a lot of mountain 562 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: ranges form. And then there's the Himalayas. The thing is 563 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: is that erosion, that process of erosion that completely recycles 564 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: Earth's surface over X number of years. An eighty eight 565 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,479 Speaker 2: million year, the Himalayas will be gone. It'll just be 566 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: a meadow where they's. 567 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite sort of facts of the 568 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: show right there. Yeah, it's hard to imagine this stuff, 569 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: but yeah, what is it eroding at like point one 570 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: millimeter per year? And again we're talking these we're talking 571 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: on timelines of hundreds of millions of years here, right, 572 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 1: So eighty eight million years, Yeah, that's it just go 573 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: romp in the meadow. 574 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, because even if we're just going back to the 575 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: Cambrian explosion. And you can argue that you can go 576 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: back further like Jason Wright did. But even if you're 577 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: just going back five hundred and forty million years, that 578 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: means continental crusts have like reinvented themselves twice since then. Yeah, 579 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: the Earth's surface has been recycled countless times. Apparently the 580 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: oldest surface stretch of Earth is only is like less 581 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: than two million years old. 582 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: Oh geez, that's really young. Yeah. 583 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: And the reason all this stuff is hard to imagine, 584 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 2: like the Himalaya is going away, is because our sense 585 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: of time is so limited to about the span of 586 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: a lifetime, yeah, plus a couple of decades. Maybe that 587 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 2: when we start to think a tens and in hundreds 588 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: of millions of years into the future of the past, 589 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 2: we just stop. It just doesn't It doesn't really make 590 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 2: sense to us unless we really apply ourselves with episodes 591 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: like this. 592 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 593 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: So you've got plates colliding, you've got glaciers do all 594 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: sorts of They move entire regions around like bulldozers. But 595 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 2: even something as humble as the movement of earthworms through 596 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: the soil over enough time, that's going to erode fossils, ruins, 597 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: subterranean networks of pipes, and essentially we're back to square 598 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: one trying to figure out what to look for for 599 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 2: an ancient civilization. 600 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: Are we done almost? All right? Maybe we should take 601 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: a break and we'll come back and talk about why 602 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: we're striking out and where we go next. 603 00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: Definitely should also stuck. 604 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: You know what, Stuck. 605 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: That's a great name. 606 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the name of it. 607 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 2: It's a great name. All right, stucks net with with 608 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 2: an X. Okay, chuck. So we've seen that we can 609 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 2: dismiss the archaeologists, Thank you everybody, and bring in the geologists. 610 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, like, take your take your whip, take your fedora, 611 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: pack it all up, go take a break because the 612 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: geologists are on the scene. You can doctor Jones, you 613 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: can take a seat. 614 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 2: Right, So, I can't even like, what are the geologists like? 615 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 2: They just they don't have a movie franchises like the 616 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: archaeologists do. 617 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're not looking for grails, they're looking 618 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: for residue. So it's not it's grabby. 619 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess they're the thing that you most associate 620 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 2: with is like a slight coffin a really large, empty room. 621 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, like there the would never be a movie called 622 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: Indiana Jones and the Ancient Tree Ring. No, you know, no, unfortunately. 623 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: But that's what we're talking about, is the fact that 624 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: if we were to have a future geologists look back, 625 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: that's what they would likely be looking for. Like, forget 626 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: the fossils, They're gonna be looking for just little bits 627 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: of residue by looking at these tiny little layers of 628 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: sediment that we deposit every day all over the place 629 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: that eventually becomes rock. And this is how we know 630 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: look back at our own past to learn things. That's 631 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: how we knew that the dinosaurs were exploded basically because 632 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: of that asteroid, and that Cambrian explosion happened because we 633 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: have studied geology. 634 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've learned to study those layers that get put 635 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 2: down and put down. And the problem is on Earth's surface, 636 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 2: as we've seen, there's the process of erosion, and there's 637 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: an entire layer across the whole globe. It's not just 638 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 2: in one spot, but there's a billion year stretch of 639 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: the geological record that's just gone. It's missing this. Yeah, 640 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 2: I hadn't either. It's called the Great Unconformity. And like 641 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 2: we'll just never know what was there, what happened during 642 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 2: that time, because there's no record of it. They think 643 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 2: that it was just a period where there wasn't a 644 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: lot of sedimentation put down, but there was a lot 645 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: of erosion. 646 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 647 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: So some people suggest that it was during Snowball Earth 648 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 2: one of those periods where like ice sheets cover the 649 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: entire globe three miles thick, and that they could erode stuff, 650 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: you know, pretty cleanly across the globe. It's a pretty good, 651 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 2: pretty good theory. But stuff like that happens. So when 652 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 2: we're looking on Earth's surface, you run into problems. But 653 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 2: because that oceanic crust takes so much longer to recycle, 654 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: we could look there and conceivably find something hundreds of 655 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,479 Speaker 2: millions of years old. 656 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I also got to say Snowball Earth is I mean, 657 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: that's the next great Netflix show waiting to happen. 658 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 2: Maybe that's about an adventurous geologist. 659 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: Maybe, so I love it. So, Yeah, going back to 660 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: underwater seems to be a better bet than because of 661 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: stuff like the Great Unconformity. Going back underwater, where that 662 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: process is of wearing stuff away is much much slower, 663 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: is probably a better bet for us and a better 664 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: bet for future geologists. 665 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, because all the stuff that enters the ocean, or 666 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 2: is born and lives and dies in the ocean, it 667 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: becomes detritus that eventually tumbles down to the ocean floor 668 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 2: and it gets locked in as sediment there, and it 669 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 2: happens really really slowly, Like I think zero point eight 670 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 2: centimeters every thousand years is about the average sedimentation. So 671 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 2: that means that so far we have accumulated about point 672 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 2: one six centimeters of ocean sediment that would bear our presence, 673 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 2: possibly even bear the signals that we ever lived. But 674 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 2: we're doing we're adding to it every day thanks to 675 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 2: things like nitrogen fertilizer that we overuse that enters the 676 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: water sheds and eventually goes to the ocean and then 677 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 2: goes and gets trapped in sediment. And so if you 678 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 2: were a future archaeologist or geologist and you were looking 679 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 2: at the layer where we existed, you'd be like, what 680 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 2: is all this nitrogen suddenly doing here? And then also 681 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 2: what are these weird polymers that used to be our plastic? 682 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: From all this stuff, all the plastic that ends up 683 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 2: in our oceans, those will eventually fall down to the 684 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: bottom and become trapped in the sedimentary layer. Two. 685 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that super soaker that your kid lost beyond 686 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: the point where the waves would bring it back in 687 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: is eventually going to end up at the or the 688 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: trash that is floating around the ocean. All that stuff 689 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: is going to go down as well. And so this 690 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: is going to lead behind like a trace, a sediment trace, 691 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: where a future geologist might say, well, hey, I see 692 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: that there was this specific time period one hundred million 693 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: years ago where there was a spike in nitrogen, or 694 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: a spike in these weird human made polymers, or maybe 695 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: they didn't know that there were humans. 696 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 2: But either way, like we're lizards. 697 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, something that doesn't jibe with what we have going 698 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: on today. There are all these weird spikes, So there 699 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: was clearly something going on in this time that we 700 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,919 Speaker 1: now think of as our time here on planet Earth. 701 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's how we we find mysterious signals in 702 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 2: the geological record. You compare it to what's above and 703 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 2: what's below it. And if something suddenly appears or disappears, 704 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 2: you know, like it's like look here, look closer here. 705 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 2: Now radioactivity will probably be a marker that will be 706 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 2: behind two from all the nuclear tests, there'll be plutonium 707 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: two forty four and iodine one nine, which have half 708 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: lives in the millions, tens of millions of years. If 709 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 2: we end up going out in a massive nuclear war, 710 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: you bet that will leave quite a signal in the 711 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 2: geological record. And one of the other things about leaving 712 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 2: like a record in oceanic crust is that the Earth 713 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 2: goes through cycles of like cooling and warming and cooling 714 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 2: and warming, and when it cools, the sea levels decline. 715 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 2: It gets sucked up into ice, and so what's under 716 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 2: the ocean may end up hundreds of miles inland, right 717 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 2: future archaeologists to find, probably more easily than they would 718 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 2: if it were underwater at the time. 719 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So you know, sort of striking out 720 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: all over the place such that our old astronomer friend 721 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 1: Jason Wright is like, maybe Earth is not the place 722 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: to look. Maybe you should be you know, we should 723 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: be looking on a place like Mars that doesn't have 724 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: plate tectonics and is probably a better, more hospitable place 725 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: for some ancient thing to be discovered one day. 726 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and not necessarily a Martian civilization, but an intelligent 727 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 2: Earth civilization that sent probes to Mars or something like that. 728 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: The European Space Agency also points out that if anybody 729 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 2: had been around to send like a probe out into 730 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 2: geosynchronous orbit the furthest reaches of geosynchronous orbit around Earth, 731 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 2: it would still be there. It's orbit wouldn't have collapsed yet. 732 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: So you know, we need to look for sixty six 733 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 2: million year old probes spinning around Earth. That's a good 734 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 2: good start too. 735 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so all of this sort of presents a paradox 736 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting, which is that if you're going to 737 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: be an industrialized civilization that lasts long enough to leave 738 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: something behind for some future geologists to find, then that 739 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: means that you found some sort of sustainable way to survive. 740 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: And if you found a sustainable way to survive, that 741 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: means you're not making as much of a findable im 742 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: packed on Earth. You're living more sustainably, and so you're 743 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: not dumping plastics into the ocean or nitrogen into the 744 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: ocean and sort of cleaning up your act and erasing 745 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 1: your path a little bit better. If you're not doing that, 746 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: then that means you haven't found a sustainable way to live. 747 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: So that means you're going to as society die out 748 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: much quicker, so you're going to be just a shorter blip. 749 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: So either way, it's just going to make things more difficult. 750 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, whether you're long lived or short lived, the record 751 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 2: you leave is going to end up just being a 752 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 2: blip in the geological record. 753 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, again on that huge timeline. 754 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 2: So like, I'm sure some people are pulling their hair out. 755 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 2: They're like, how then, like it is even impossible to 756 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 2: find signals that an ancient civilization existed or what signals 757 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 2: will we leave too? And yes there are, And what 758 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 2: you want to look for is not like traces of 759 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 2: fossils or strange appearances of elements in the geological record 760 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 2: and sediments. Instead, you want to look at the impressions 761 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,760 Speaker 2: that the effects of those things had on Earth, because 762 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 2: those get locked into geological records and they can stay 763 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 2: around for a very very long time, so much so 764 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 2: that we can look back into Earth's far, far far 765 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 2: distant past. Yeah, and we see signals that were like, 766 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: can't rule out that this some industrialized ancient civilization produced 767 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: these effects on Earth because we don't know what. 768 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: Happened, yeah, exactly, And what we're talking about is something 769 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: called a hyper thermal event where three things kind of 770 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: line up, which is an abrupt extinction of maybe not everything, 771 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: but many, many, many species. That's pretty obvious. That coincides 772 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: with a build up of carbon in the atmosphere and 773 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: a lot of rapid coastal erosion. All of those three 774 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: things happening at once is called a hyper thermal event, 775 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: and it's a pretty good indication that something really really 776 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: big happened to wipe out most. 777 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and usually the hyperthermal events we found are caused 778 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 2: by negative carbon isotope extrusions, which is basically just a 779 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 2: different way of saying a ton of organic CO two 780 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 2: was pumped into the atmosphere and it had all of 781 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 2: these telltale marks, sea level rise leading to erosion, mass extinctions, 782 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 2: dogs and cats living together, all that stuff, right, And 783 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 2: so if we look in the past, there are events 784 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 2: that coincide with this. One of them is the Paleocene 785 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 2: Eocene Thermal Maximum, the PETM. It took place about fifty 786 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: six million years ago, so basically after the dinosaurs died 787 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 2: out and right after mammals started to take over Earth, 788 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 2: it got really hot. And I was trying to figure 789 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 2: out how hot the surface tempts and the Arctic Sea 790 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 2: were about seventy three degrees farrenheight twenty three degrees celsius. 791 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 2: That's what you find today around the Panhandle in the 792 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 2: Gulf of Mexico. These are the Arctic seeds today. The 793 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 2: global annual surface temperatures about fifty nine degrees farent height 794 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,879 Speaker 2: fifteen celsius. Yeah, back then it was ninety degrees farent 795 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 2: hyder thirty two degrees celsius. Like, that's the global temperature, 796 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 2: the average across all of the globe. So it was 797 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 2: really really hot. And they have traced that to tons 798 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 2: of carbon dioxide suddenly appearing in the atmosphere causing all 799 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 2: these changes. 800 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that lasted for about one hundred thousand years. 801 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: But that's not the only one. There have been other 802 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: events similar to that in the Cretaceous period, in the 803 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: Jurassic period, in the Palaeozoic era, and then in the 804 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:42,760 Speaker 1: six million years since the PETM the Paleocene Eocene thermal Maximum, 805 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: there were even more of those hyper thermal events. And 806 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: again they sort of all bore the same similarities, right. 807 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's only so many ways that Earth responds 808 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 2: to being messed with yeah, and so like all of 809 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 2: these things kind of do bear a strike similarity, and 810 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 2: there are things, there's natural things that you can point 811 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 2: to that could have caused them, like massive volcanic activity 812 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 2: across Earth, or a sudden huge depositive shale ended up 813 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 2: in the mantle and got recycled very quickly, and all 814 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 2: sorts of CO two was released in the air. Who knows. 815 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 2: But what Schmidt and Frank basically point too is like, 816 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 2: and again they don't think this is correct. They say, like, 817 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 2: you can't rule out, yeah, that this is a marker 818 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 2: of an ancient civilization creating climate change in exactly the 819 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 2: same way that we're creating climate change today, because we 820 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 2: are laying down the foundations of a geological signal that 821 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 2: will be detectable hundreds of millions of years in the 822 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 2: future as a hyper thermal exactly like the ancient hyper 823 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 2: thermals we've discovered in Earth's past. 824 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is basically, if we do ourselves in with 825 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: climate change. 826 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're predicting if we just keep going with 827 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 2: fossil fuels just for the rest of the century, by 828 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,760 Speaker 2: the end of the century, will have increased the global 829 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,240 Speaker 2: temperature by about four point eight degrees celsius, which is huge. 830 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 2: Is that qualifies as a hyper thermal maximum, and that 831 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 2: PETM like the biggest hyper thermal maximum that ever happened 832 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,879 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, that took place over like one 833 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,320 Speaker 2: thousand plus years. We're doing this in a couple hundred years, 834 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,240 Speaker 2: so it will really stick out in the geological record. 835 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the PETM had a five to seven 836 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,319 Speaker 1: celsius degree rise, and if we're looking at four point 837 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,280 Speaker 1: eight in that spend of time, that's trouble. 838 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's just by the end of the century. 839 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,439 Speaker 2: Who knows if we just keep going. We're not quite 840 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 2: sure when the whole thing will study itself out and 841 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 2: what the peaks will be when it does, you know. 842 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. 843 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,320 Speaker 2: So there's one other thing that I found really interesting 844 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 2: is that the fossil fuels that we're using to create 845 00:45:55,280 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 2: inadvertently this hyperthermal and Earth's geological record is create from 846 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,240 Speaker 2: the mass extinctions from the past. Those die offs turned 847 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 2: into fossil fuels that we use today to essentially add 848 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 2: all that carbon to the atmosphere, which is creating these 849 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 2: warmer conditions. Yeah. And then if you take it one 850 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 2: step further, We're eventually going to create these mass extinctions 851 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 2: that will create the fossil fuels for another industrialized civilization 852 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,280 Speaker 2: to come tens of millions of years in the future. 853 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: That's right. We're just insignificant, aren't we. Yeah, but also 854 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: overly significant somehow. 855 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,359 Speaker 2: That's right. If you really want to get that driven home, 856 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 2: go read Peter Brandon's The Anthropistine as a joke. It 857 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 2: really it almost made me feel like fine about climate 858 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 2: change because it just in the grand scheme of things, 859 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,879 Speaker 2: it's so insignificant. I had to be like, no, no, 860 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 2: it matters. It's important. Stop thinking like that. Yeah, uh 861 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 2: so you got anything else? 862 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. This is long a way did 863 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,439 Speaker 1: for us and a lot of fun. 864 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's hope we remembered the press record. 865 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: Oh god, I would just retire. 866 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,720 Speaker 2: Well, since Chuck said he would just retire, of course, 867 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 2: that means he's triggered. 868 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: Listener mail, Yes, this is a story from Dylan. This 869 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: is one that I know about or knew about, but 870 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if we ever talked about it. But 871 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: it's a pretty interesting little thing. Okay, hey guys, I've 872 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: been listening to you for about two years. Helps cut 873 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 1: down on my commute and I often learn a lot 874 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: during the hitchhiking up. You were talking about the Curb 875 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry David picks up a sex 876 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: worker so he can ride in the carpool lane to 877 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: a Dodgers game, and I wanted to let you know 878 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: something about that episode. Did you know this? 879 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 2: No? I thought this was amazing. 880 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that episode was actually used to help secure an 881 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: alibi for a man, Juan Catalan, who is arrested for murder. 882 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: They filmed the episode during an actual Dodgers game, and 883 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: it just so happened that one and his family were 884 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: sitting in the same section as Larry David when they 885 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: were filming, and Wan's lawyer used the raw footage from 886 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: the episode to help exonerate him. So they picked up 887 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: this guy for murder. Yeah, and they proved him wrong 888 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: thanks to this Curby Your Enthusiasm footage. He was like 889 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: he was at the Dodger game. He couldn't have done it. 890 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,280 Speaker 2: God did not want one in jail. 891 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: Amazing. There's a short documentary on Netflix called long Shot, 892 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,439 Speaker 1: and it is truly one of the stories you can't 893 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: believe is true. Thanks for the years of entertainment. I 894 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: love sharing the knowledge with you guys, food Listener mail, 895 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,800 Speaker 1: Stay positive and keep testing negative. Dylan. 896 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 2: Awesome, Dylan, You're a cool cat we can tell. Thanks 897 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 2: a lot for that great email. That was amazing and 898 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 2: we will definitely go watch Long Shot very soon. 899 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:43,960 Speaker 1: Totally. 900 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 2: Do you want to get in touch with this like 901 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 2: Dylan did, You can send us an email. Send it 902 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 2: off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 903 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 904 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio up Apple Podcasts, 905 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 906 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 2: MHM