1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? And 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: it really is? What's up on? Laura Curni and I'm 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Alexa Kristen. Welcome back to at Landia Episode eight, Crazy Eights, 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Crazy Eights. We are going to be talking to Meredith 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: Levi and the cr of New York Times about all 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: things that The New York Times is doing, content, t brand, 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: what's the future, some of the acquisitions that they've made 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: in the agency world that I think are really really interesting. 15 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: But first we want to talk about what just gets 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 1: our goat and Laura loves that. Laura loves it when 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: I think gets it really does get your goat? Um. Yeah, 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: So we were talking about things that we're driving us 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: bonkers in the avertising industry, particularly around creative right now 20 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: and content. But before we get into all of that, 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: more news from the industry that recently broke. So Facebook 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: has confirmed, but they've been talking about this for a 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: really long time, like that they're getting closer to the 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: TV model, so that they're going to be licensing content 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: and creating their own unique content. So their licensing content 26 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: from people like Attention who we Love, vox Um, BuzzFeed. 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: And what's interesting about that is it looks like Facebook 28 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: had one of two strategies, either pick the partners that 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: everybody else's or, which I hope is a smarter strategic one, 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: is the content that consumers are engaging with most on 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: their platform, which would make sense. I mean, you would 32 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: think that that's what they're doing. It's really looking at 33 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: like who's really getting the engagement. So there's two forms. 34 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: The long form seems like they're gonna have some original 35 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: i p that they're going to own, and then the 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: short which they said will be twenty to thirty minute 37 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: shows which will be mostly scripted, which will be interesting 38 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: to see with advertising breaks by the way, so we'll 39 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: talk about that. I've got an opinion, yes, And then 40 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: you've got the shorter form, which seems like it will 41 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: just be licensed content with the same model that everybody 42 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: from NBC to Hulu to whomever is engaged in which 43 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: and Snapchat for that matter, But who knows, I mean, 44 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: who knows like opportunity coming from the other publishers, right, 45 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: But the opportunity here is this, right, And if I 46 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: was NBC, I would actually be super worried and frustrated 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: because they've made big investments in recode, you know, Vox, 48 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: and big investments in um like with BuzzFeed, So I 49 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: would be worried, like is Facebook going to get content 50 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: that is preferential? What happens if I'm paying for contestion? Yeah? 51 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: What happens if I'm paying for content where I'm getting 52 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: paid views? Because you have to pay to play? That's 53 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: the truth. We all know that, right, So how do 54 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I drop an algorithm? Like? What does that mean? Like? 55 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: How does that work? I don't know how they're going 56 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: to deal with that. But what's really interesting to me 57 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: is there's a huge opportunity to create even with those 58 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: if they're licensing content, the opportunity to create content that 59 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: is totally for Facebook. That's truly, I mean I hate 60 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: this term, right, not branded like in terms of branding, 61 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: but tone reason to go to Facebook to watch that 62 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: content or ABC or somebody else totally, or even their 63 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: own websites. In some cases, the relationship actually, now that 64 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: you bring it up, is an interesting one because the relationship, 65 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: at least the benefits that I've seen for NBC doing 66 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: deals with Box and BuzzFeed has been less pulling in 67 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: their content to the portfolio inasmuch as it's scaling outwards 68 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: and created targets that they might not be able to 69 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: reach on NBC dot Com for example, and being able 70 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: to say, hey, we've got this extended reach. So if 71 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: you're coming as advertiser X, you can of course advertise 72 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: targeting millennials on on NBC, but then also going across 73 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: the box. So it'll be interesting to see does NBC 74 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: now say, hey, we want a piece of the content 75 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: PI two? How is that going to work? And so 76 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: these are all real time questions people we don't know, 77 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: but we're we're curious and we will keep asking. And 78 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: then it begs a huge question to me, which we 79 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: were going to be talking about later, and we're going 80 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: to be talking to Meredith Levian about some of this, 81 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: is does that end up turning Vox and more of 82 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: a content production studio that they may have into a 83 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: true like creative agency exactly and then boom, we need 84 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: a sound effect for that. Kim Um. Yeah, it's totally interesting. 85 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: And one of the conversations we were engaged with UM 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter this week with our listeners was saying around 87 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: a particular article that came out from digit ay that 88 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: was talking about how micro influencers are no longer just 89 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: endorsers of brands, but that brands are actually going to 90 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: them and saying like, hey, can you create an entire 91 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: advertising campaign including the creative from from your voice from 92 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: A to Z. So it's interesting to see. And I 93 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: actually was having a conversation with another mega media company 94 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: yesterday UM and asking them explicitly like, our brands coming 95 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to you to create a straight up creative spots UM 96 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: brand advertising campaigns that are white labeled. Your media company 97 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: is not associated, and he was like, more than you 98 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: would know. And one of the reasons that I think 99 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: that this is important and understanding how media companies i e. 100 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: Publishers like a Vice or in now this or I 101 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: mean Fox or BuzzFeed have credibility to come to the table. 102 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: And this is something that was the impetus for this 103 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: morning's rant when I was texting you today saying, I'm 104 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: so sick and tired of getting served thirty second pre 105 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: rolls on top of ten second news clips. Like everybody, 106 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: I'm enamored with click bait of the most interesting thing 107 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: coming out of Washington, d C. Or in this case, 108 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: the Vatican, and you know, there's oftentimes just these ten 109 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: second news clips of Milan just the hand, the hand. Yeah, 110 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: that's all I want to see. But I gotta watch 111 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: a thirty second pre roll to get to a five 112 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: second hand slap of Milannia. I don't understand that. And 113 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners were actually complaining about that 114 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: too and saying like this, this is a broken model. 115 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that publishers recognize 116 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: is when you put content first, products second. I'm not 117 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: saying in priority, but just in terms of what the 118 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: users coming in, you're more savvy. And I think this 119 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: is what my gro influencers due to. You're more savvy 120 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: in terms of figuring out how to best integrate the 121 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: message versus giving it some sort of standardized template to 122 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: build around the stent. I wanted to go there too, 123 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: because I think that like with the Facebook stuff, Facebook, 124 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, reportedly said that there would be ad breaks. 125 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: There's a huge opportunity right to right size from a 126 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: time standpoint, right, how much time are we going to 127 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: make you look at ads? But more importantly make it 128 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: valuable content? If there's some kind of relationship second fifteen seconds? 129 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: Should I make a thirty second? Because rules? I mean 130 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: that's old broadcast right, that started in broadcast US went 131 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: over to remnant media digital right, and for some reason 132 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: little remnant media and digital became the standard for video. 133 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: I don't know why. It makes no sense, right, I 134 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: mean I think that's why in some ways Vine was 135 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: so even though Vine wasn't about advertising, Vine was so 136 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: genius because it was it didn't matter. It was like 137 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: six second videos, right that you could actually get something from. 138 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: But the point is here is like, is there an 139 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: opportunity for Facebook to actually not only just create content 140 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: that's right for the platform and that can live outside 141 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: of the platform and grow outside of the platform, but 142 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: can it actually create a whole new ad model, especially 143 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: if it's around scripted shows, you know. So they think 144 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: the opportunity is huge here for Facebook to lead. Actually, 145 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: the best practice that came up on a panel I 146 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: was on recently around how this bad behavior is starting 147 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: to seep into the podcast space around host reads in particular, 148 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: It's just lazy. It's lazy, and I think it actually 149 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: was eye opening because we're so immune in the ad 150 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: world to kind of take what we know and as 151 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: we were just saying, apply it to And so what 152 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: brands are starting to do is pass around, you know, 153 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: boilerplate messaging points. And the same five points that I'm 154 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: reading are the same five points that David Platz is 155 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: reading America, John Farrow is reading that Phoebe Robinson is reading. 156 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: And I think that listeners are also saying, hey, how 157 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: come I'm hearing the same message? And like the hosts 158 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: actually believe what they're saying, You know, is there an 159 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: opportunity for brands to really think about the contextual nature 160 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: of the podcast and talent sitting there live reading and 161 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: now podcasting is so much more of an intimate experience, 162 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: I will argue than just standard terrestrial radio or even 163 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: satellite radio, because you have to elect right to put 164 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: this in your ear, to download and subscribe. And so 165 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: if someone's listening to Two Dope Queens, I want to 166 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: hear it from their perspective. I want to hear Phoebe 167 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: talk about why she likes this or what her perspective is, 168 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: and so writing the content, writing the ad copy specifically 169 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: for the hosts, especially for shows that are in the 170 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: top rankings, and you're in potentially five hundred listeners right 171 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: per week or listeners in millions. Yeah, we'll get there. 172 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: We'll get there. We'll get listen to that. Anyhow. We'll 173 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: be back after this break with Meredith Levan, the c 174 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: R of New York Times. So excited to have our 175 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: truth matters. We'll be back. We are so excited to 176 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: have someone who not only we respect as a female, 177 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: total girl boss, total girl boss, but someone who we've 178 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: worked with for I don't know, at least four years now. 179 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: Meredith Levian, the Chief Revenue Officer of the New York Times, 180 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Industry renegade, Industry Renegade. I'm 181 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: so happy to be here. This is like the one 182 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: podcast that I really really really want to do, mostly 183 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: because I just want to hang out with you guys. 184 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: Like that's bookmaking us blush. Laura can't blush because she's 185 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: so tanned blush. So, Meredith, there's a lot going on 186 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: in your world, both as The New York Times the 187 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: media company, but also the industry pioneers of many new 188 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: interesting products on the advertising side, Can you talk to 189 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: us a little bit about how you're seeing the market 190 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: in seventeen and where The New York Times is differentiating themselves. Sure, 191 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: that's such a big and there's a huge question, and 192 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: we're just jumping right out. Yeah, that's great. And I 193 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: want to say one more time. I was saying this 194 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: to you guys before we went on Mike, so I 195 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: want to say it on Mike. I am so impressed 196 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: that you're doing this care before. Lots of people say 197 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: I want to make a show or a book or 198 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: a podcast, and very few people actually do. And the 199 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: window between you saying you wanted to do it and 200 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: actually doing it was like the shortest I've ever seen. 201 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: I admire that. So um, just to go to the 202 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: question of how we see the marketing world in the 203 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: ad world right now, we gave a name to what 204 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: we think is the biggest trend going on, at least 205 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: in our part of the business last year. We called 206 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: it the Fall of advertising and the rise of programming. 207 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: And I think I've probably been in meetings with both 208 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: of you were one way or another in the course 209 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: of our day jobs we talked about something related to that. 210 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: But we really believe that we are in a moment 211 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: where all of the rules as we understood them about 212 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: advertising not all that most of the rules about advertising 213 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: are changing, and the biggest issue is that savvy marketers 214 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: need meet consumers where they are with content that has 215 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: value to them, real value to them, and in formats 216 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: that are actually going to want to make them stay 217 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: and engage and build a relationship. And we think that 218 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: has just fundamentally changed how companies need to think about 219 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: reaching their customers and keeping relationships with them. How is 220 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: that perspective and the fact that that is happening change 221 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: your conversation with creative agency that media companies are programming? Yeah, yeah, 222 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: I mean that's huge. Media companies, tech companies like everybody 223 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: brands now should be getting into programming. What does that 224 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: mean and how do you talk to an age a 225 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: creative agency about that? I think, probably most importantly for us, 226 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: we're now going to market as a creative launchpad for 227 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: programming for marketers, and what that means is we have 228 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: T Brand Studio, which is a full service programming shop 229 00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: and frankly for u T brand was born January like 230 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: seventh or eighth, two thousand and fourteen. Started working on it, 231 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: you know, four or five months in advance of that. 232 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: Basically from the day I got here and a few 233 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: weeks later when SEB. Thomas got here and it started 234 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: out as content studio. Everybody gave us a lot of 235 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: credit for being a pioneer. We deserved none of that. 236 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: We were in a pioneer like we were like the 237 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, hundred content studio to launch something like that. 238 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: But you know, we we came from Forbes, which you know, 239 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: was doing lots of work in the brand of content space, 240 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: and we were, you know, growing up in the shadow 241 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: of BuzzFeed Advice, who had had been market makers for this. 242 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: But the thing we did differently and said differently, and 243 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: it goes to your broader question about this programming change 244 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: our relationship with marketers. Thing we did differently is said, 245 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: we are going to aspire to create content, which we 246 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: now call programming at the quality level of the New 247 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: York Times and at a quality level befitting the audience 248 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: of the New York Times. Level of engagement that goes 249 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: with the New York Times. So by having that kind 250 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: of conversation and by coming into meetings and saying we're 251 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: not just talking about advertising, I think that's like a 252 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: huge misnomer, like and people talk about, especially like institutional media, 253 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: because like the monetization and the advertising, you guys, the 254 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: bottom line, you have fundamentally changed the conversation to a 255 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: content state conversation from ad conversation. Is that still happening? 256 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean, are you still getting a lot of ad conversations? 257 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: Like that's where people coming through programmatic, programmatic and tonnage 258 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: and yeah, sure. And here here's what I'll say. Distribution 259 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: still has a role, right, I mean totally running a 260 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: very large and profitable newspaper, we have a fairly big 261 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: digital ad business, so of course we still get bought 262 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: for that. We figured out pretty early on. Look, we've 263 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: had a thesis for four years that has said original, independent, thoughtful, killer, 264 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: content creation plus distribution is distribution alone is a platform game. 265 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: That's and talking about models because Alex and I talk 266 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: a lot about how the news space in particular has 267 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: seen a lot of disruption from the guys at Axios 268 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: and the rise of newsletter of focus publishers were like 269 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: eagerly watching what Dan Rather is going to do coming 270 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: out of using guts on Facebook. I love them. But 271 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: one of the things that we challenge each other in 272 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: our thinking a lot is like, what is the future? 273 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: Um or is it really the future? Is it harketting 274 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: back to the original days of subscription model versus ad 275 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: revenue model? And as somebody who is the chief revenue officer, 276 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: that has to be an interesting one. And know, following 277 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: your Truth Matters campaign you saw tremendous spikes and subscription 278 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: and support of the newsroom. What does that do on 279 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: your side of the house and how you're thinking about 280 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: content and how you bring that to advertisers. As a 281 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: way to say the models changed, I would also love 282 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: to say, like, is it a verse this right? So 283 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: everyone talks about at revenue versus subscription? I don't think 284 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: that's the conversation. Why are we Why are we having 285 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: that conversation, Meredith? Why are we having that conversation? Well, 286 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're changing that conversation. We're looking for 287 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: people who bend the conversation into a new direction You're 288 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: doing and I love it. I love it. So let 289 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: me say a couple of things about it. The first 290 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: one I would say is the big thesis of The 291 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: New York Times in terms of our long term business model, 292 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: is having a direct relationship with highly engaged consumers who 293 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: make a daily habit out of brand New York Times 294 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: and all that that provides and means in their lives period. 295 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: Right now, that means we have a fast, growing and 296 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: rich consumer subscription business, and we have growing and rich 297 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: at business. And we strongly believe that those two things, 298 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: to Alexa's point, don't need to exist and shouldn't exist 299 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: in conflict with one another. And I think the problem 300 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: in the world of digital advertising has been broadly, It's 301 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: not specific to The Times, but broadly, the digital ad 302 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: business grew up at odds with that, which is good 303 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: for consumers. It's interesting, though, because why the industry has 304 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: given this sense of feeling that because content exists behind 305 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: the paywall, if you're subscribing to something and you're paying 306 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: for it, that means that advertising shouldn't be there. I 307 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: fundamentally disagree with that, because if you're creating content at 308 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: the quality of New York Times journalism, shouldn't that also 309 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: be something that I want to engage in it's useful, 310 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: right exactly. Val, Let me say two things about that. 311 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: I think there has been so much bad, interruptive, intrusive 312 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: advertising that is fundamentally at odds with good consumer experience, 313 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: and I think that's why that reputation has existed. I 314 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: think there's also been um too many ads in too 315 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: many places where ads don't belong, taking too much data 316 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: from consumers who really don't need to give up that data. 317 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: So our strategy is provide a rich and fabulous and 318 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: pristine user experience and put ads where they can at 319 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: at you know, at at a minimum, do no harm 320 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: to that user experience and ultimately, at best add value 321 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: to it. That's right. I just want so like when 322 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: you were talking, I was getting goose bumps because I'm 323 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: thinking about all these twenties something media strategist who are 324 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: sitting at their desk with these flow charts, and I 325 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: want to say, put the flow chart down and think 326 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: about how else you engage this audience. That's how you 327 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: write it means just like it's not line items. Media 328 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: is just a point of distribution, right, and what we 329 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: do as marketers and just because you sit within a 330 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: media agency, doesn't all this sudden mean that you're not 331 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: able to critically think? Yeah, well that you say line 332 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: item and I think, what is a line items terrifying? 333 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: What does it mean to a person? What does it 334 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: mean to a human being? And you know, the what 335 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: would I say to the twenty two year old media 336 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: plan or who you're referring to. Think about the person 337 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: on the other end of this thing that you're trying 338 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: to accomplish, Like what's going to make their choice easier 339 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: or their you know, their half hour more entertaining, or 340 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: their life better? Right, minimize that add to get to 341 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: the content that you want to see. Yes, but let's 342 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: let's pivot towards the future, because we see you in 343 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: the New York Times at the forefront of that. Yeah, 344 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: so you acquired Fake Love. It's like a digital experiential agency. 345 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: And then kind of at the intersection of um physical 346 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: world and digital world, which online offline? What's that relationship? 347 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: And then hello, society, who's influence our marketing company? Right? 348 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: Basically social programming with influencers distribution. So I mean I 349 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: would assume I say this with a smile, all right, 350 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: I would assume that you guys are really looking at 351 00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: carving out more probably vigorously your niche audience is and 352 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: talking to them around with content and people influencers that 353 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: really matter to them and then building out those audiences. 354 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: But that's my that's like we've talked what's the strategy behind. Yeah, 355 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: Fake Love helps us on the experiential side. Um, what 356 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: they bring is extraordinary imagination for the beautiful where the 357 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: world is going in terms of how you can think 358 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: about the digital world the physical world together. They also 359 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: do this thing that like we just don't talk about enough, 360 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: which is live experiences. So you know, live experiences are 361 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: the thing that you know very well. It was at 362 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: my wedding, you know what. I should have had Carlos 363 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: Watson at my wedding. But Carlo guest. Yeah, he was 364 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: on a few episodes ago and one of the things 365 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: we found as a really interesting takeaway was he said 366 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: the best brands, in his opinion, that are coming to 367 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: Ozzie are the ones who are asked or the most 368 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: forwarthinking are the ones that are asking for experiences. Yes, 369 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: and those might be physical experiences, they might be digital experiences. 370 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: But what does experience mean? It means participatory, It means 371 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: like something I can only do in a particular moment 372 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: and that requires me to participate in it. And and 373 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: that's right. That's like you know, I I um, I 374 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: tease said, who you both know? SEB tomas A. Like 375 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: let's just say I t said period, but I tease 376 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: have all the time that experiences the New Black. That's 377 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, the reason Fake Love has been such an 378 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: important acquisition for us, kind of even more important than 379 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: the monetary value. And I would say the same thing 380 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: about Hello Society. What Helo Society gives us is this 381 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: extraordinary creative capability with experts in a bunch of domains 382 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: that really matter to the New York Times and really 383 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: matter to our marketing partners. Do you think you can 384 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: scale experiences or does that even matter? Like that's such 385 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: a good question. So my friend Andrew Essex, who's now 386 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: at Tribeca Film Festival, but was it drug for a 387 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: long time. I think I stole from him the two 388 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: words that I say missed off in great scales. If 389 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: people go to an experience, even a hundred people, but 390 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: that experience is extraordinary and memorable, it will scale because 391 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: they're going to post about it, They're gonna tell their friends. 392 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: They're going to pass it on, and those friends are 393 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: going to pass it on. I think one of the 394 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: things that and we obviously watch you closely, we've worked 395 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: together for a number of years, is it fit voyeuristically 396 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: like it's um. I think one of the things that 397 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: I've always wondered and we talk about, is is there 398 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: a world where T Brand spins off as its own 399 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: creative agency, where there is not necessarily a need to 400 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: tie it to New York Times medicle? Great question. I 401 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: feel like I'm, you know, sitting here with the board. UM, 402 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: but it's it's a good question. We think about it 403 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: a lot, and I'll say, UM, a lot of the 404 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: word we do now UM, not the majority of it, 405 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: but enough that it's worth talking about. Isn't because companies 406 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: want to buy distribution. It's because they want to buy 407 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: the ideation that comes from a creative shop that is 408 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: owned by empowered by the New York Times. Have creative 409 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: agencies called you for work? Oh sure? I mean Fake 410 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: Love does a lot of its work in partnership with 411 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: creative agencies, and so does T Brand. And We've got 412 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: lots of examples where an agency will call us and 413 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: say help us solve a specific content problem. Our best 414 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: gifts are, um, what is the kind of content, the subject, 415 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: that format, the means of discovery that's going to make 416 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: a large group of people stand up and take notice? 417 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: And who can do that better than an organization with 418 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: the recruiting capabilities and the tools and the know how. 419 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: New York Time we talked about the earlier. I wanted 420 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: to say to you, you're not selling as well. Absolutely 421 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: we had, but you shouldn't be called the chief revenue officer. 422 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: You mean a new title? Can we rename it? Where's 423 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: Mark Thompson speaking of speaking? No, I wish it was. 424 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: We wish it was because we had an amazing conversation. Best. 425 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: By the way, can we have a minute about Mark Thompson? 426 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: Great great leader, great boss, had a lot of vision. 427 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: I always say, like so many people get lots of 428 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: credit for so many different things. At the New York Times, 429 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: that man three years ago said, like everything is the phone, 430 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: and everything about our differentiation is product and the user 431 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: experience is about how fast we can really tilt the 432 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: whole company to programming for that phone first, because if 433 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: we get that right, whatever device or form factor comes next, 434 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: we will have proven that we're not about anyone media 435 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: that's where it starts, anyone form factor. But we can 436 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: do the work we do in the world in whatever 437 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: way people want to experience. He's a total visionary. No 438 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: vest feeling right now with dinner, Yeah, because you are 439 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: sitting in between. I know it's kind of awkward, but 440 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: he had no idea what was going to happen. We 441 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: didn't either. We started talking. We had this great conversation 442 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: and we looked at him and said, he was really 443 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: maybe part of the rationale behind where we figured we 444 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: could really have a podcast because if we could ping 445 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: pong Mark and we're like, oh, if he had a 446 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 1: good time in that conversation, who yeah, yeah. I mean 447 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: one of the questions Alex and I were adamant and 448 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: pushed him in was why aren't you or why We're like, 449 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: there's no reason, there's no reason. Tell us there's a 450 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,239 Speaker 1: reason that I learned now for the dramatic pause there. So, UM, 451 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: what I will say is this, Um, great brands have 452 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: been advanced through site, sound and motion. Great brands have 453 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: been advanced. God, your formats that make people feel eight. 454 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: You know, we don't have a top of the funnel 455 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: problem in that The New York Times probably has a 456 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: hundred percent on aided awareness all over the planet. But 457 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: every brand, every great brand, and we are I always say, 458 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: we are on a journey to be we're world class 459 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: news brand. We are on a journey to being a 460 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: world class consumer brand. And part of that journey is 461 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: making many, many more people feel strongly about The New 462 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: York Times such that they make it a daily habit, 463 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: such that they're willing to pay for it, such that 464 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: they spend more time with us, so we can engage 465 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: them in more of our content and more ads. And 466 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: we think sits on and motion is going to play 467 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: a very big role in that. So I will say 468 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: four months ago, if you said why aren't you in 469 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: the audio business in a big way, we actually Well, 470 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: what I want to say is we are. Um, we're 471 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: doing a lot of experimentation in video. I don't necessarily 472 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: think video is the same as being on television UM 473 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: or being in film. I think they're all kind of 474 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: fusing format. But what I can say to you is 475 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: there's a huge appetite now to be much more experimental there, 476 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: um than we were two years ago. When you asked 477 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: Mark so everyone's talking about the bundle in television, and 478 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: the other day Viacom Um, Bob back Ish, the CEO 479 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: of Viacom, was talking about the kind of entertainment bundle 480 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: for twenty dollars. I would love the New York Times 481 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: to make a news bundle. No one has done this 482 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: with credible news sources that are completely the antithesis of 483 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: cable news, which is fine, right, that I could buy. 484 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: If I could buy The New York Times, if I 485 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: could buy some of the other players that I read 486 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: and that I interact with through you would be amazing. 487 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: I would do it in a heartbeat. And that you 488 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: told me that on my devices, on any screen, whether 489 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: it was video, site, sound and motion. As you said, 490 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: I would pay a premium for it. I want the 491 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: New York Times to do the first news bundle, please. 492 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: I love to hear that. What I will say, So 493 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: I'll say this just on your bundle point. We spent 494 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about that. Um. You know 495 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: we launched a bundle with Spotify. Um, yeah, I love 496 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: that five or six months ago, maybe a little bit less. 497 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: You've got a free subscription of Spotify. It's basically you 498 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: could buy a New York Times and Spotify premiums scriptions 499 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: together at a discount and um with great benefit. And 500 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: that's been a terrific experiment for us. We're really excited 501 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: about that. I actually think, UM, the pent up demand 502 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: for brands that can direct attention two things that are 503 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: worth your time. There's pent up demand for that, especially 504 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: in the last you know something days. We've gotten to 505 00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: a place so where food like fire water and news 506 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:08,479 Speaker 1: right a water and news like good journalism is like 507 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: an essential part of human right. That's what. But if 508 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: you say what's driving that, that's what's driving that right on? 509 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: And I want to say one more thing about that. UM. 510 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: You know, we're in this interesting period where the news 511 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: has become the news UM, and also where people are 512 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: really thinking about news. Has what you're saying, Alexas, news 513 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: has entered the consciousness is something people need to think about. 514 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: Fake News Crisis exposed that UM and really serious, hardcore 515 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: primary source reporting in the systems and structures required to 516 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: do it and do it well have been under economic 517 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: siege since newspapers lost their distribution monopolies and were The 518 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: world is sorting that out now, and The Times feels 519 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: a great sense of responsibility on behalf of the category 520 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: and for ourselves to remind the world why it's important, 521 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: why we need it, and why it's good to buy 522 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: unti ryptions And what's your favorite product at The New 523 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: York Times. You know how I'm gonna answer that, right, Um, 524 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: The Daily So I I love Daily. I could fill 525 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: up a hole when we get Michael Barbara. Michael Barbara 526 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: and I would say, you should you should try together, 527 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: you should try. I will say yes to my part 528 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: of that. He's amazing, and I want to say to 529 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: the two of you what he did. And it's not 530 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: just Michael. It's Michael, and it's the team around him. 531 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: Lisa Tobin, Sam heading Kinsey Wilson. You know what those guys, 532 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: Sam Dolnick, what those guys did was make us realize 533 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: that in very short order, if we've got an imaginative 534 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: idea in a space where we're the insurgent, not the incumbent, 535 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: we can do it, and we can do it at 536 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: a grand scale because of the work we do in 537 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: the world and our brand and the quality level which 538 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: we do that work. And Michael Barbaro has literally changed 539 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: the way people who work at the New York Times, 540 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: think about what the New York Times can be. Yeah, 541 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: I think this is huge. So okay, we're going to 542 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: play our game because we know we have to let 543 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: you go. So I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you the 544 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: bad version and we may edit this out. But the 545 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: bad version is have you ever played the game kill? 546 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: Fuck Mary? So who are you going to kill? I 547 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: went to Thank God? Thank God? So we do a version, 548 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: but it's what would you kill in this world? So 549 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: our world of advertising, marketing, media, entertainment, whatever, What would 550 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: you buy? Um? And then what would you do yourself? 551 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: So it's killed? What would you buy? D I y 552 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: do yourself? Okay, I would kill the ability to post 553 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: anything without understanding the source from which it came, which 554 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: pretends to be in the space of journalism. Love fake news, 555 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: but like, you can't just kill fake news, You've got 556 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: to kill the news that comes from a source that 557 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: can be verified, trusted, known, or understood as having the 558 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: right to pursue that topic. That. Um, what's the second one? 559 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: By what would you buy? I would buy maker equipment, 560 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: and I would put it in many, many more people's 561 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: hands because I think we are at the dawn of 562 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: a renaissance of extraordinary um ideas being brought to life 563 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: by professionals, by amateurs, by people who have never made 564 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: anything in their life. And the third one is why why? 565 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: What would you do yourself? I want to make a 566 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: movie or film or you can be answered this, by 567 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: the way, faster than anyone we've ever asked, including like 568 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: Ca Carlos, including everyone like you. I just want to 569 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: know that I answered it faster than Carlos. So we're 570 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: renaming you. You're like the chief I don't know idea, 571 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, fad or badass of the New York Times. 572 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: I'll come back to you. Thank you, So, Meredith, how 573 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: can our listeners get in touch with you if they 574 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: have ideas or questions or want to come create with you? 575 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: So they can email me Meredith dot Levy in at 576 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: my Times dot com. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Twitter. 577 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: Um My EA is constantly trying to get me, teaching 578 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: me how to use instragm more effectively. And I'm on Facebook. 579 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: But just drop me a note. We'll see you and 580 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: open for imagination and ideas from anywhere. I love it. 581 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: This was awesome. Thank you so much, and thank you, 582 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 1: thank you. This episode has been made possible by our 583 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: wonderful family at Piano Plea so big thanks to Cameron Drew's, 584 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: our producer, Amaron Drews, Matt Turk, Andy Bowers. Thanks so much. 585 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks within all New Adlandia. 586 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: Full Disclosure. Our opinions are our own