Speaker 1: Hell I Suck At Dating with the Unglers and Dared
Speaker 1: Haven and I heard radio podcast What is Up? Everyone?
Speaker 1: Welcome to the very special Labor Day weekend edition of
Speaker 1: Help I Suck At Dating. We thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. We've got the whole squad with us today.
Speaker 1: Jared's with us. We have Mark somewhere over there. We've
Speaker 1: got Becky, you've met all of these people last week.
Speaker 1: We've got Easton somewhere in the world, probably not listening,
Speaker 1: but he's at least logged into the zoom call Jared.
Speaker 1: What's going on, man, how's your Labor Day weekend? They
Speaker 1: was good. Easton is definitely listening. He just put his
Speaker 1: face up. My Labor Day weekend was good. I flew
Speaker 1: back from the East Coast, so we are back in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles now. I got a test for COVID today,
Speaker 1: so we'll wait for the results on that. But dude,
Speaker 1: it was good. It was just pretty low key, like
Speaker 1: I said, traveling and uh, hanging out the house. Now.
Speaker 1: Ashley and I have a movie date night plan for tonight.
Speaker 1: We're gonna watch Scream four because we're gonna, you know, September.
Speaker 1: It's getting towards Halloween. Um, and that's about it. How
Speaker 1: is your labor day weekend? What did I do this? Say?
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of band renovations, so I
Speaker 1: spent most of the weekend cutting wood, painting, painting quite Hansy,
Speaker 1: she's good, Yeah, she was. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think
Speaker 1: either of us. I don't think we would either call
Speaker 1: each other good at dude, painting is hard. It's like
Speaker 1: in theory, you're just like, oh, you're just rubbing a
Speaker 1: brush up and down some wood. It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: But then like you paint and it dries and you
Speaker 1: look at it and you're like, wow, that really sucked.
Speaker 1: Did you find that a good bonding experience between the
Speaker 1: two of you or was did it like tear your
Speaker 1: relationship apart? Do you guys start arguing? Or was it
Speaker 1: like nice moment? No, it was neither the things. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's funny because I said, well, what's funny is I
Speaker 1: was like, this is gonna be a great bonding moment
Speaker 1: for us, just jokingly, and Killen goes, what do you mean,
Speaker 1: We're like, we're already bonded. How did we How do
Speaker 1: we need to keep having bonding moments? And it was
Speaker 1: just it was a very funny moment that I guess
Speaker 1: maybe isn't as funny now that I'm retelling the story.
Speaker 1: But uh, now there was some like there was some
Speaker 1: hurt feelings, not like obviously seriously hurt ornything like that,
Speaker 1: well just because it's like, you know, she would paint something,
Speaker 1: and she does. She did a fantastic job, and I
Speaker 1: mean eternally grateful that she was there helping me paint.
Speaker 1: But then I would look at it and be like, no,
Speaker 1: like and it was just like my stupid like perfectionism
Speaker 1: where I'm like, which is I've never a perfectionist obviously,
Speaker 1: but like you know, when you are working on your
Speaker 1: own things and you want them to be done to
Speaker 1: the best of the ability that you're capable of, and
Speaker 1: I saw like one little stroke out of place, and
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no no, no, we gotta go
Speaker 1: and do another layer of paint over this to make
Speaker 1: sure everything is even um. But it was all obviously
Speaker 1: a good hearted and fun and everything. But yeah, we
Speaker 1: got most of the painting done. We got I got
Speaker 1: a couple of new lights installed. I got a bunch
Speaker 1: of new van stuff installed. So we got a bunch
Speaker 1: of work done, which is really nice. I've been like
Speaker 1: so obviously, as you guys know, I like, I did
Speaker 1: the van last year with my dad, and then like
Speaker 1: a month ago I got the whole thing and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, this van sucks, like I
Speaker 1: don't like anything about it. So that's why I took
Speaker 1: it all apart, and that's why I'm doing all of
Speaker 1: this now. And even in its incomplete state, it is
Speaker 1: like leaps and bounds better than it used to be.
Speaker 1: So it's pretty nice to be able to like, you know,
Speaker 1: have a part and had obviously have because because when
Speaker 1: I did the van the first time, I didn't have
Speaker 1: Kaylin with me, and so it's now it's nice to
Speaker 1: be able to like stay in the van with Kaylin
Speaker 1: and both of us be like, oh, like we both
Speaker 1: had a hand in creating this little home that we
Speaker 1: get to travel around and you know, so that's like
Speaker 1: it's that's definitely the great body. Well that's what I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you. Are you so when you redid
Speaker 1: the van this past weekend, did you redecorate it more
Speaker 1: just like whatever you wanted? Or now is Kylin having
Speaker 1: a say like, oh, I think this would look better. Like,
Speaker 1: for example, when you decorate an apartment, you know you
Speaker 1: do it for both. I'm like, okay, Ashley, well, you
Speaker 1: know we have to compromise because a guy and a
Speaker 1: girl living here and we both have different likes. Are
Speaker 1: you doing the same thing with the van or is
Speaker 1: it just kind of your style? No, it's happy. You're
Speaker 1: absolutely right, and it's it's a lot of like when
Speaker 1: we're painting, I'd be like, do you think I should
Speaker 1: paint this? And like I'll have I'll have the answer
Speaker 1: already in my head, but I am curious to hear
Speaker 1: like what she would say, and like how she would
Speaker 1: weigh in on the situation, And usually I would say
Speaker 1: almost ncent time we agree on things. So it's like,
Speaker 1: should be paint this? No, no no, no, we shouldn't paint that,
Speaker 1: should paint that? Yeah, we should definitely paint that. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then also like, the only reason there's a toilet
Speaker 1: in there now because when I first at the van,
Speaker 1: there was no toilet, but now there's a toilet in there.
Speaker 1: And the reason I have a toilet is just specifically
Speaker 1: for Kalin, Like, as a guy, you can just step
Speaker 1: outside into the woods and take a you know, take
Speaker 1: a piss wherever you want to take a piss, but
Speaker 1: as a girl, it's a little bit more. There's a
Speaker 1: little more steps involved, and so it's nice that she
Speaker 1: kind of has that ability, you know, like especially like
Speaker 1: in urban areas to Like, we haven't really done much
Speaker 1: of urban camping in the van, her and I, but
Speaker 1: there were a couple of times where I was like
Speaker 1: sleeping in it in l A and I like really
Speaker 1: had to use the bathroom at like three in the morning.
Speaker 1: But like I'm parked on some streets and it's like,
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do? I feel like p
Speaker 1: and a a water jug or something. But then it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're stumbling through the night. You're aiming. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you miss. There's like a little bit of a stench
Speaker 1: that sticks around. It's nice to have, uh that what
Speaker 1: happens if you guys have to defecate. Uh. There's a
Speaker 1: very strict rule of no number two is in the van,
Speaker 1: and we've actually we've upheld the note number two real
Speaker 1: pretty good. I mean, you know, it's like two number
Speaker 1: two is are way more predictable. You can just like
Speaker 1: take a trip down to a gas station. I mean
Speaker 1: sometimes they're unpredictable, and those are the ones that you
Speaker 1: need something asap. Yeah, listen, under extreme circumstances, of course
Speaker 1: we'll do. Number two is number three in the van,
Speaker 1: but we haven't gotten there yet, and it's actually been
Speaker 1: a pretty good system. Like even to this day, there's
Speaker 1: probably only been like five number ones. Like we try
Speaker 1: not to do it that frequently just because it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of weird that there's a toilet literally
Speaker 1: touching the bed that you sleep in every single night. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we we found a way to make it work,
Speaker 1: and it's been good. It's been a good labor day.
Speaker 1: It's like, looking at the van now, it looks much
Speaker 1: better than it before. It's still, like I said, isn't complete,
Speaker 1: but we're getting closer and closer to haven't finished, and
Speaker 1: Labor Day was was helpful for that because otherwise, you know,
Speaker 1: Caitlin is able to fly out to Colorado, which is
Speaker 1: where we are now, and we were able to get
Speaker 1: some work done. But anyways, enough about me, enough about
Speaker 1: the van, enough about Kylin, enough about all that crap. Well,
Speaker 1: definitely not. We're not done talking about vans. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you that much well, you're absolutely right and and and
Speaker 1: you're right because for the listeners, we have a very
Speaker 1: special episode today. Uh So, a couple weeks ago, maybe
Speaker 1: like a month or two ago, I met a girl
Speaker 1: in Sequoia and Caitlin and I were on a trip
Speaker 1: up in Sequoia. We met a couple of fellow van
Speaker 1: lifers and she was kind enough to agree to come
Speaker 1: on the podcast and tell us all about her experience
Speaker 1: with van life. She's been doing it for I think
Speaker 1: like over a year now. Um, so we're gonna have
Speaker 1: her come on and talk to us about her experience
Speaker 1: with the van life. I want to get to know
Speaker 1: more about like her dating lifestyle in the van, because
Speaker 1: ninety six percent of my lifetime in my van has
Speaker 1: been with a girlfriend who's been very understanding, and I've
Speaker 1: never really been single in it. So, um, that's coming up.
Speaker 1: What else are we doing today, Jared? Besides that, Well,
Speaker 1: we're talking about uh well, number one, we said last
Speaker 1: week that we're gonna bring new dating terms to every podcast,
Speaker 1: So I found another one that I don't think we've
Speaker 1: talked about yet on this podcast. You know, like dating slangs,
Speaker 1: Like we talked about ghosting last week. I've already forgotten
Speaker 1: the term. Oh, Michelle's there. Michelle's somehow made it into
Speaker 1: the zoom called before we were able to take our break. Michelle,
Speaker 1: we're so stuck to have you on, but we can't
Speaker 1: talk to you right now. We have to take a
Speaker 1: commercial break, and then we're gonna jump right back in
Speaker 1: and well, I guess we'll just get right to it
Speaker 1: and then, Jared, hopefully you can save your dating terms
Speaker 1: for later, or better yet, maybe we can answer and
Speaker 1: talk about them with Michelle. Sweet. All right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take a quick break. You guys as listeners, stay tuned,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get right to Michelle. All right, everybody,
Speaker 1: welcome back to help I suck at dating. And as promised,
Speaker 1: we have a van lifer here. Her name is Michelle,
Speaker 1: and she has been living in a van for I think,
Speaker 1: like their how long over a year obviously, right, Michelle? Yeah,
Speaker 1: almost two years? Actually almost two years, two years in November. Awesome, Okay, cool.
Speaker 1: So for the listeners, I gave him like a quick
Speaker 1: little background about you and all that stuff. And I've
Speaker 1: heard it all from you too, from when we weren't
Speaker 1: sequoied together. But I want you to be able to
Speaker 1: at least share with listeners, like how you got into
Speaker 1: it while you're doing it, what you love about it? Uh,
Speaker 1: just kind of like the whole genesis of the situation.
Speaker 1: Cool Actually, I, Um, I got into it kind of
Speaker 1: through music festivals. I I saw some people doing it
Speaker 1: when I was working at music festivals, probably like six
Speaker 1: years ago. Um, and then fast forward like three years
Speaker 1: after that, I was like, I'm going to build my
Speaker 1: own band. So that was, you know, like three years
Speaker 1: ago now. Um. I did it mostly because I wanted
Speaker 1: to travel and do photography. So that was like one
Speaker 1: of the main goals just learn more, travel around and
Speaker 1: see see the states. How old you, Michelle? I'm twenty nine,
Speaker 1: so you were when you right around there when you
Speaker 1: moved into the van? Yeah yeah yeah. And I bought
Speaker 1: it about like six months before I left, so and
Speaker 1: built it out. It took about three months. And so
Speaker 1: what did you tell your friends and family when you
Speaker 1: were like, Hey, listen, this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I'm going to move into a van and live there. Um.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I have like an accounting and like
Speaker 1: finance a degree, so it was like very like out
Speaker 1: of the blue kind of. But I've always been a traveler,
Speaker 1: so they weren't too surprised. Um, they weren't super supportive,
Speaker 1: but they now love it and are supportive, and I
Speaker 1: think it's awesome, So that's good. I've got a question
Speaker 1: for you. So when I first did it, all of
Speaker 1: my friends and family were very supportive of it. They
Speaker 1: were like obsessed with the idea. They're like, awesome, where
Speaker 1: we love it. But there was like a like a
Speaker 1: public stick stigma I guess attached to it, where people
Speaker 1: that I've never met or have never known before we're
Speaker 1: like talking down on the idea of it all. Have
Speaker 1: you experienced that at all? Because so for the listeners,
Speaker 1: Paula Michelle on Instagram, it's Michelle dot Lawrence right, yeah, yep,
Speaker 1: so follow her on Instagram. She has a wonderful aesthetic
Speaker 1: and isn't a very talented photographer and you're not gonna
Speaker 1: regret that. But have you experienced any like public backlash
Speaker 1: or um, anything like that for the choices that you've
Speaker 1: made for your lifestyle. I feel like I get a
Speaker 1: little bit discriminated against because my van looks old, and
Speaker 1: so if I'm in a parking lot, or doing something
Speaker 1: totally normal. People will like just because it's a van
Speaker 1: call me out on things that like, oh, a car
Speaker 1: has been here for you know, a part here for
Speaker 1: four hours, but they'll notice my van for I don't
Speaker 1: know if you get that you're in you're in a sprinter, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's mine is like clearly a conversion, and
Speaker 1: yours is a little bit more incognito. I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But if I'm in a really nice neighborhood and parked
Speaker 1: on the side of the street, I get like some
Speaker 1: like people will be like, oh, there's a sketchy van,
Speaker 1: and like sometimes called the cops or you know, come
Speaker 1: out and knock and be like, oh, I have children,
Speaker 1: so I was just checking to make sure that you
Speaker 1: were normal. I guess I don't know which is like
Speaker 1: you can it's like annoying, but you can kind of
Speaker 1: understand where they're coming from too. I feel like, right, yeah, no, fully, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I welcome it. Usually if I'm parked outside someone's house.
Speaker 1: I was in Santa Cruz for a while, and um,
Speaker 1: I would like park and go surf and walk around
Speaker 1: this place called the Point. It's just on the ocean,
Speaker 1: and I would always try to make sure the neighbors
Speaker 1: knew that I was, that it was me and it
Speaker 1: was my van, and but it's pretty yeah, that's how
Speaker 1: I'm your neighbor now, so I'm obviously the one who's
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could do it, because, like
Speaker 1: I remember watching This Is Gonna Be I saw Into
Speaker 1: the Wild, uh, and love the movie, love the story
Speaker 1: of Christma Candles, ended up reading the book, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking to myself, I would love to just let
Speaker 1: go of everything caught up by credit cards, you know,
Speaker 1: and just live in the woods somewhere, you know. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure that it was a little bit of an
Speaker 1: inspiration for you both, even though you guys have very
Speaker 1: nice vans and it's honestly like a studio apartment at
Speaker 1: this point. But I guess like after a week I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to do it, just because I would
Speaker 1: miss the normalcy. I would be honestly, would be too scared.
Speaker 1: That's what it would really come down to. Be scared. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, I would. I would be scared. Would
Speaker 1: you be afraid of I would be afraid of someone
Speaker 1: breaking into the van. I would be afraid of like
Speaker 1: being um like like you guys said, not a nuisance
Speaker 1: to people, but like people looking at me weirdly, Like
Speaker 1: you guys talked about even parking on the side of
Speaker 1: the street and like having to find a place to
Speaker 1: park where you're not going to have the cops called
Speaker 1: on you. That would make me new. I feel like
Speaker 1: you need to reiterate that, like most of the time
Speaker 1: people are too worried about their own lives to focus
Speaker 1: on what's going on around them. So I would say
Speaker 1: like nine percent at this time, no one notices me,
Speaker 1: Like even though I'm a girl in a van, people
Speaker 1: are just walking down the street. They don't even look
Speaker 1: at it. Um, it's just like a few times in
Speaker 1: the two years, it's probably been like a handful of
Speaker 1: times that something's happened where someone will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're in the wrong space, or like I kind of
Speaker 1: will park in like a uh, like the gym I
Speaker 1: shower at Planet Fitness, so I'll park in the parking
Speaker 1: lot and some of them are you can park overnight
Speaker 1: and some you can't, and so like it'll be a
Speaker 1: situations like that, But most of the time, nobody really
Speaker 1: notices you at all. And I think that that I've
Speaker 1: only had like less than I've only been doing it
Speaker 1: less than you, especially with my injury when I was
Speaker 1: living with Kalen full time, even less because of that.
Speaker 1: But there was a few circumstances where a few instances
Speaker 1: where just because it was a van in a parking lot,
Speaker 1: people get like slightly more suspic is shis of it.
Speaker 1: And so I think I was in a parking lot
Speaker 1: once for even like forty five minutes and a cop
Speaker 1: came banging on the door and he like made me
Speaker 1: get out and he was like looking around. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, we got some complaints about you being
Speaker 1: parked here. I was like, I'm literally just sitting here
Speaker 1: watching Netflix. Yeah, no loitering. Yeah. Do you guys think
Speaker 1: this is will be the rest of your life or
Speaker 1: do you see yourself, you know, one day getting out
Speaker 1: of the van and going back to you know, an
Speaker 1: apartment house, go and so forth. People ask me this
Speaker 1: a lot, and like recently I've been having people just
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, how long are you going to
Speaker 1: do it? Because I initially was telling people I was
Speaker 1: just going on a three month road trip and then
Speaker 1: but like in the back of my head, I knew
Speaker 1: that if I liked it, I would continue to do it.
Speaker 1: And so like, I'm almost thirty, we'll be thirty in June,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I have no, Like I don't want
Speaker 1: to live in a house. I can't imagine maybe eventually,
Speaker 1: but like maybe like a couple of years down the road. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have no I have no desire to rent at all.
Speaker 1: This is like an extremely easy, fun way to live.
Speaker 1: So well, Michelle, you have a name for your van, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's Carl Carl, So you couldn't imagine giving Carl up
Speaker 1: anytime soon. And people ask me, like, when Carl dies,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? I'm like, Carl is not
Speaker 1: gonna die, He's a car. Yeah, what a horrible way
Speaker 1: to thing. I'm very much the same. I'm in the
Speaker 1: same boat too, where I don't see myself really renting
Speaker 1: a place again. Um, but I guess I've kind of
Speaker 1: been intrigued and Kitlin and I haven't toying around with
Speaker 1: the idea of like buying a place that we would
Speaker 1: like split time between that and the van. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, it's like once you kind of experience like
Speaker 1: not having to pay rent and the ability to kind
Speaker 1: of move around freely as you want to. It's like
Speaker 1: if you were to go back to renting an apartment
Speaker 1: somewhere on the East Coast or West Coast or river,
Speaker 1: it is you're kind of like stuck in that spot,
Speaker 1: especially like renting, because you're you're you're paying so much
Speaker 1: money to essentially lease out of space for a short
Speaker 1: amount of time, and if you're not there while you're renting,
Speaker 1: you feel like you're like paying for something that you're
Speaker 1: not getting anything from. So it's like, why would you
Speaker 1: not want to be at your rental property? You know.
Speaker 1: So I'm kind in the same boat too when I
Speaker 1: first did it, And again I feel we were talking
Speaker 1: to you about this because I have kind of gotten
Speaker 1: the cheap skateway of doing the whole van life thing
Speaker 1: where I bought the van, moved into the van. I
Speaker 1: did it for like four months, and then I got
Speaker 1: a girlfriend and I basically moved into my girlfriend's apartment
Speaker 1: and then I would be quarantine, right Yeah, and well,
Speaker 1: and I broke my leg, and so it's because of
Speaker 1: that as well. But I say, of doing it, I
Speaker 1: don't get it. Yeah, you're selling short. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: I haven't really fully uh like I've committed to the
Speaker 1: lifestyle of van life thing, right, but I still have
Speaker 1: the luxuries of having like an anchor point back in
Speaker 1: Santa Monica Kalin's apartment or both worlds. Isn't that what
Speaker 1: you like? Michelle? Is that something you'd want one day
Speaker 1: to be able to have van life? But also the
Speaker 1: security of so I get this a lot where so
Speaker 1: I'll be in a house right and people will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're in a house. It's like, because I live in
Speaker 1: a van, I'm not allowed to be in a house anymore.
Speaker 1: Like I can still have friends that have houses and
Speaker 1: I can use their bathroom a like when I'm at
Speaker 1: their house, you know what I mean. So I feel
Speaker 1: like a lot of people because you're in a van,
Speaker 1: Like if you're dating someone that's in a house, you
Speaker 1: would go, like, even if you were in a house,
Speaker 1: you would go over to the house. So it's essentially
Speaker 1: the same thing. It just becomes this this thing where
Speaker 1: you kind of live outside their house and then things
Speaker 1: because and where you can, Yeah, things get really intense
Speaker 1: very fast if you start dating someone, especially when they
Speaker 1: live in a house, and even if they live in
Speaker 1: a van. Too, and you're dating someone that lives in
Speaker 1: a van, You're you're just like traveling together and parking
Speaker 1: next to each other, so it gets really intense for
Speaker 1: so is that like? And I'm kind of being facetious,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, I do want to know this,
Speaker 1: is that kind of like the Facebook official of dating
Speaker 1: someone in van lice is if you guys like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now we're gonna start parking next to each other, that's
Speaker 1: a big deal. I guess I don't know. It depends
Speaker 1: on the person. I think, why do you think that is?
Speaker 1: Why do you think it intensifies so quickly? Because I
Speaker 1: was trying to think about it while you were explaining
Speaker 1: that whole situation, and I agree with you. It does
Speaker 1: seemed to happen that way. And I guess the only
Speaker 1: way that I could really explain it would be that
Speaker 1: you have all this time, and like the reason that you,
Speaker 1: from my understanding, moved into the van was to enable
Speaker 1: your ability for exploration and photography and explore these tree
Speaker 1: artists that you have and a lot of people that
Speaker 1: live in a van share those same ideas and the
Speaker 1: same mentality, So it's like, why wouldn't you share that
Speaker 1: with someone else that you might also be like romantically
Speaker 1: interested in, and so I guess, uh, that's that's my
Speaker 1: I guess explanation as to why it intensifies. Right, It's
Speaker 1: just shared interests and the ability to explore those interests together, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think also going on trips with people makes you closer,
Speaker 1: like you and Kaylyn do a lot of traveling together,
Speaker 1: and traveling makes people closer, and it makes it feel
Speaker 1: more intense because you're having those experiences together versus just
Speaker 1: going over to each other's houses every now and then.
Speaker 1: You're spending like a week together in a small van,
Speaker 1: so it makes it more it makes it feel more intense.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, right now, that makes sense. But but yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so Jared was going to get to the point of it,
Speaker 1: and I definitely want to to to dive into a
Speaker 1: little bit more because we are dating podcast, and as
Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top of the podcast, I think
Speaker 1: before you join us, I haven't really been single and
Speaker 1: living in a van at any point, because I you know,
Speaker 1: I've had the band for fourteen months and David Klein
Speaker 1: for thirteen months. So what has your experience been like
Speaker 1: as a single woman living the Vani life for the
Speaker 1: past two years just kind of like a brief thirty
Speaker 1: foot overview of what you've experienced. Well, so I went
Speaker 1: into living in the van not really looking for that.
Speaker 1: Um I. I was kind of just of the mindset
Speaker 1: that if I was doing what I loved and learning
Speaker 1: and exploring and doing the things that I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: I would find someone that was doing the same, which
Speaker 1: is interesting because you're the pool of people that are
Speaker 1: actually doing or living how they want is kind of small,
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate. So when I what I've experienced with
Speaker 1: dating is that I'll meet someone and they'll see my
Speaker 1: life and either they'll want to change theirs, which is
Speaker 1: like very hard to have someone look at you and
Speaker 1: be like I want to change my life. I hate
Speaker 1: my job, I hate living in this apartment, Like I
Speaker 1: hate everything about my life. Can you don't want to
Speaker 1: put that on someone? Um or you find someone, so
Speaker 1: you it kind of narrows your pool, I guess. So
Speaker 1: you just want to find people that have similar interest
Speaker 1: to you, which is living in a car, which is
Speaker 1: like not that many people. But well, and and Jared
Speaker 1: and I have talked about this a lot on this podcast.
Speaker 1: Throughout its entire lifespan. Is we feel like the most
Speaker 1: successful or at least like the most prevalent dating app
Speaker 1: is Instagram, And we we know that people meet people
Speaker 1: all the time through d m s and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, and so when people maybe see your lifestyle,
Speaker 1: they want to at least be part of it or
Speaker 1: replicate it. And then do they reach out to you
Speaker 1: or like what? Like meeting people in today it's easier
Speaker 1: than it's ever been before, right, so when you meet
Speaker 1: someone that you might be interested in, like, how does
Speaker 1: that all kind of transpire? I guess I thought also
Speaker 1: leaving being like alone in my van traveling across the country,
Speaker 1: I would feel lonely. But I've never like I felt
Speaker 1: more lonely living in my apartment in a town than
Speaker 1: I do living in the van traveling across the country
Speaker 1: because people are excited about what I'm doing, so they
Speaker 1: want to hang out more. And there are so any
Speaker 1: town I'm in, there's people like, hey, let's hang out.
Speaker 1: And even before I had the small following I do,
Speaker 1: it was it was people from high school or college
Speaker 1: that we're in random cities and towns that were like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's grab coffee when you're driving through. So I've I'm
Speaker 1: like really fortunate that that happened and I didn't get
Speaker 1: like and I'm kind of an I'm outgoing, so I
Speaker 1: would go into a coffee shop and strike up conversation
Speaker 1: with a random person and then hang out for for
Speaker 1: a week Like that wouldn't be rand, that would be
Speaker 1: normal for me. So that's such an interesting point you make.
Speaker 1: Two is I feel the exact same way. When I
Speaker 1: was living in my house in Los Angeles with like
Speaker 1: three of my best friends. I would never say I
Speaker 1: felt lonely, But I feel like ever since, I've like
Speaker 1: definitely focused more like traveling and doing these things. Um,
Speaker 1: people get way more excited for me for the things
Speaker 1: that I'm doing, and they feel more inclined to like
Speaker 1: reach out and like check in. And so you're maybe
Speaker 1: like not around as many people as you're used to,
Speaker 1: but you're definitely not communicating more frequently with the people
Speaker 1: that you're close with. Yeah. I always tell people that
Speaker 1: I like chose when I got in a van to
Speaker 1: play life instead of letting it play me, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like we're on this earth to play a game.
Speaker 1: Kind of It's like do it the best you can
Speaker 1: have the most fun, like you know, obviously be responsible,
Speaker 1: but don't let life play you. And a lot of
Speaker 1: in that mentality shift is like so important for me,
Speaker 1: especially with dating um. Having someone that agrees with that
Speaker 1: and like it is living their life to the fullest
Speaker 1: is really important. So do you guys like living in
Speaker 1: the van? I love it so much. I love it
Speaker 1: so much. You would like it if you came and
Speaker 1: hung out in here, you would like it. It's like
Speaker 1: a little cabin. Honestly, it's the best. It's like it's
Speaker 1: it's so nice to you a little wake up in
Speaker 1: like a small little space no where everything is being
Speaker 1: a cool new place and just like it's cozy. I honestly, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I definitely there's a noticeable shift
Speaker 1: in my like happiness when I am like traveling and
Speaker 1: doing stuff like that versus when I'm just like you know,
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica or something that I'm happy both times,
Speaker 1: but there's like a very noticeable difference. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's for everyone though, Like I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say everyone this would be the best fit
Speaker 1: for everyone. So let me ask you Michelle, if you
Speaker 1: had if you had to choose one and say, because
Speaker 1: we are dating podcasts obviously, and a guy you met
Speaker 1: either said I want you to move out of the
Speaker 1: van for the rest of our lives and buy a
Speaker 1: house so we can move on, or would you rather
Speaker 1: have a guy say I want to live in a
Speaker 1: van for the rest of our lives. I never want
Speaker 1: to live in an apartment or a house again. So
Speaker 1: you had to choose, what would you choose? I would
Speaker 1: I would choose a van for the rest of your life,
Speaker 1: for the rest for you, I'm very envious. I swear,
Speaker 1: I swear no, I believe you, but I would I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to view with someone that's like I
Speaker 1: want to be in a in a house or That's
Speaker 1: another thing I was thinking about when asked to be
Speaker 1: on the podcast. It's it's almost so I'll meet someone
Speaker 1: in a random city that I'm in and if I
Speaker 1: have interest in them, and I have plans to leave
Speaker 1: that city like the next day or the next week,
Speaker 1: but I kind of like a person and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't have plans to come back to this city
Speaker 1: for a year. Puts a lot of pressure on me,
Speaker 1: like should I stay? Should I see how this goes?
Speaker 1: And then they know that I'm staying probably because of them.
Speaker 1: You can play it off, you know what I mean
Speaker 1: a little bit. But it's like it makes it a
Speaker 1: little bit confusing because I'm not rooted in a place,
Speaker 1: so I don't have to be anywhere. So if I
Speaker 1: meet someone somewhere and I'm choosing to stay because of them,
Speaker 1: that's like a huge pressure. Right happened? Yeah, for sure?
Speaker 1: Can do you? Do you mind talking about it? Because
Speaker 1: that's very interesting. Well, that's exactly kind of like I was.
Speaker 1: I met this guy and in a city, in a city,
Speaker 1: I just it was a town, a small town, and
Speaker 1: we hung out for you know a little bit, and
Speaker 1: then I had plans to go to a different state,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I guess I just I went, but I
Speaker 1: wanted to stay. But I didn't want it to get intense,
Speaker 1: so I was just like, yeah, well that's very sweet.
Speaker 1: How let's go. How long ago did you leave? I
Speaker 1: feel like you're getting all like cut with me. It's
Speaker 1: very it's very very it's very just very like Nicholas
Speaker 1: Sparks story right there, you know, where like the girl
Speaker 1: in the van meets a guy from a small town
Speaker 1: and she's got to go, but she wants to stay,
Speaker 1: but they don't know if it's ever gonna work out,
Speaker 1: and she leaves, and and then you know, obviously you
Speaker 1: guys still have well do the Bachelor van life edition
Speaker 1: in this story right now, dude, that would actually be
Speaker 1: a really good idea. Michelle is the bachelor atte she
Speaker 1: goes down the town, all these been life tuters down
Speaker 1: with this. I think we should pitch this through a
Speaker 1: television network right now, let's pitch it. I'll get ABC
Speaker 1: on the horn. How far can you hike? Though? Right? Right? Right? Well,
Speaker 1: and that's a that's an interesting point you made earlier too.
Speaker 1: It's like to Jared's question where he asked you would
Speaker 1: you rather be with a guy in a house or
Speaker 1: a guy in a van? I feel like you would
Speaker 1: never want to be with a guy that would give
Speaker 1: you the sort of ultimate him anyways, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: or someone that would say something like, oh, you have
Speaker 1: to stay here to date me if you leave. I
Speaker 1: don't want to date you, like I really need to.
Speaker 1: I'm focusing on myself, but if I were to get
Speaker 1: into a relationship, it would have to be like in
Speaker 1: and out or like us traveling together. I would never
Speaker 1: give up what I'm doing or my happiness or just
Speaker 1: to live in the same place with someone you know, well, Michelle,
Speaker 1: So I'll be honest with you. Our listener base of
Speaker 1: this podcast is predominantly female. But let's say guys and
Speaker 1: sending this right now, and he's very interested in getting
Speaker 1: your attention. What would be the best way for someone
Speaker 1: to like find you? Well, obviously find you on Instagram,
Speaker 1: but like what would be the what would be necessary
Speaker 1: for him to do to be like for you to
Speaker 1: get excited to meet him or something like that, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, how does what's kind of
Speaker 1: your thing? Oh? No, that's a hard one. I think
Speaker 1: it's so situational. I definitely like when like you mean
Speaker 1: like sliding the d M s or like or like
Speaker 1: if you were scrolling through his Instagram page, what would
Speaker 1: be something that would jump out to you? Yeah, oh,
Speaker 1: I love I like I love active people. So if
Speaker 1: it's any like sports type of Instagram, I like that?
Speaker 1: Is that? What we're is that along the line of,
Speaker 1: so you want somebody's active, So would you rather be
Speaker 1: like are you looking for like a sports guy or
Speaker 1: somebody who's more like you know, goes on hikes and
Speaker 1: in wilderness either or would be good like photographers. Also,
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about musicians because they have a similar
Speaker 1: lifestyle that would that would work with my life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then obviously people that like snowboard, pike bike Are
Speaker 1: you even interested in are you even interested in having
Speaker 1: someone with you at all times? Or do you kind
Speaker 1: of enjoy the aspect of like you had when when
Speaker 1: when Michelle and I met, she was traveling with one
Speaker 1: of her friends, Kira, which I assume is she's still
Speaker 1: with you. Yes, well she's with some of our friends now,
Speaker 1: but she's with me. So would you rather would you
Speaker 1: rather keep doing your solo thing that having your friends
Speaker 1: come along when they can, or would you prefer to
Speaker 1: have like romantic partner with you for a large part
Speaker 1: of it as well? Because I feel like a big thing,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier too, is like the ability to
Speaker 1: go out on your own and like experience these things
Speaker 1: and figure it out on your own. I feel like,
Speaker 1: ideally I would meet someone that has like their own
Speaker 1: projects going on. So let's so it could start off
Speaker 1: being like, you know, we're coming in and out and
Speaker 1: that they have their like they're not just like living
Speaker 1: my life all of a sudden. So they travel and
Speaker 1: do their own thing. Um, and I travel and do
Speaker 1: my own thing and we come together like in between.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be opposed to someone to travel with
Speaker 1: someone full time either. Yeah, it just if it would
Speaker 1: work out, you know, like if I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: have a job in I want to shoot photos in Utah,
Speaker 1: Like if I can just go there and they don't
Speaker 1: have to feel like they have to follow me because
Speaker 1: they have, you know, something that they have to do
Speaker 1: in Colorado or California or something like that. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the only way to have a
Speaker 1: sustainable relationship and also do van life. Because Dean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but it seems
Speaker 1: like that you and Caitlin have a pretty good balance,
Speaker 1: which is something that you need because even so I've
Speaker 1: been married for a little over a year and we've
Speaker 1: been my wife and I have been living together for
Speaker 1: about two and a half years, and it comes to
Speaker 1: a point where you just need, like I need another room.
Speaker 1: You know. I'm very lucky to be able to like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you go in the fan you know, say in the
Speaker 1: living room watch TV. I'm gonna go in my little
Speaker 1: room to the side and and just like play a
Speaker 1: video game. Like you need that space. And if you
Speaker 1: guys live together in a van, that would be very
Speaker 1: nervous for me because there is no space unless, like
Speaker 1: you guys said, you have your own things going on.
Speaker 1: So I guess Michelle, and you know, I want to
Speaker 1: get your take on this too, Like, could you ever
Speaker 1: see yourself living with somebody else in a relationship in
Speaker 1: one van? I can, but I don't really. I would
Speaker 1: prefer them to have their own van or they're all
Speaker 1: vehicle and like we can sleep in one or the other,
Speaker 1: but we can have our own separate space if it's
Speaker 1: long term we're traveling together. Michelle, I think we talked
Speaker 1: about this too. It's funny seeing when you post pictures
Speaker 1: of yourself in your van, you're like, wow, that van
Speaker 1: is pretty big and spacious, but it's because you're you're
Speaker 1: you're a small person, and so it's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: five ft tall, so my van's like five one. So
Speaker 1: a lot of people will be like, I bought the
Speaker 1: same van and I can't stand up in it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So if you hard to imagine it. If you hard
Speaker 1: to imagine a guy that's like six ft tall coexisting
Speaker 1: and cohabitating in the van with you, you know, that's
Speaker 1: something that you go through. Well, I'm tall, I've got
Speaker 1: I've got a high top van, so I can stand
Speaker 1: in mind. But it's funny because mine, my van is
Speaker 1: you know, taller than Michelle's. But I feel more cramped
Speaker 1: in it than when I see photos of her. And
Speaker 1: then especially it is more cramped in there because you
Speaker 1: have so many cabinets. Yeah, I've got a lot of
Speaker 1: I'm a big a fan of storage. That's that's definitely true, dude.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, and I obviously love when Calin joins me
Speaker 1: on the van trips, but she'll like bring her her
Speaker 1: carry on suitcase into the van and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: well I've never really counted where her carry on suitcase
Speaker 1: is gonna go while we're like moving through the van
Speaker 1: um And then that like makes it extra crowded. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of a constant going through things to get
Speaker 1: rid of things and add things like donate clothes and
Speaker 1: bring clothes in. Like when Kira came in the van,
Speaker 1: she's going to be here for a couple of months,
Speaker 1: I was I didn't want a suitcase laying around, so
Speaker 1: I just got rid of half of my stuff basically,
Speaker 1: and she half of her stuff. Yeah, have you, guys,
Speaker 1: how has the experience been with your friend in the
Speaker 1: van with you? Because that that's your I mean again,
Speaker 1: I don't know for certain, but I would imagine that's
Speaker 1: like your biggest taste of cohabitating in the van. Right.
Speaker 1: Have you guys got to the point where you get
Speaker 1: upset with each other? And I think that, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's been good. We're very good at communicating, and
Speaker 1: we often say like, if we communicated with men like this,
Speaker 1: life would be easier because if I start feeling something,
Speaker 1: we just say it, so there's no like grudge holding,
Speaker 1: you know. Um And then yeah, she's super helpful and
Speaker 1: treats it like it's her space, which is really nice,
Speaker 1: instead of it being my space that she's living in. Um,
Speaker 1: So it's been really good. Nice. Nice? Is the allure
Speaker 1: of van life more about living in the van or
Speaker 1: the ability to travel whenever you want? I think it's
Speaker 1: a combination. I don't I feel like my van is
Speaker 1: as comfortable as an apartment, and I don't have to
Speaker 1: pay for an apartment. Like my van total cost seven
Speaker 1: seven thou dollars, like think about how like and I've
Speaker 1: lived in it for two years, so it saves me
Speaker 1: a lot of money and like stress, I guess from
Speaker 1: having to make money to pay rent, so I can
Speaker 1: be a little bit more free with the projects that
Speaker 1: I want to do or learning Like I before I left,
Speaker 1: I had just gotten into photography, so like learning how
Speaker 1: to even make money doing that. I had the ability
Speaker 1: to do that because I wasn't. I didn't have like
Speaker 1: intense monthly bills. Yeah, that is that is a big
Speaker 1: point because you know, both you engine yourself. Both you
Speaker 1: and Dean both have professions that you guys are able
Speaker 1: to do while traveling, which is key. So you said
Speaker 1: that you said something that was interesting. Your van was
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars, So like what does that get you?
Speaker 1: So somebody who's listening to podcast right now thinking of themselves,
Speaker 1: I want to do van life. I want to do this,
Speaker 1: Like so what is like if they have like ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, what does that get you? Like for your
Speaker 1: how many miles did your van have it? What did
Speaker 1: it come with? Like a bed? And Yeah, so no, I,
Speaker 1: well it's a g mc Vendora night. Holy, that's awesome
Speaker 1: one a great year because I was born that year.
Speaker 1: But to that car twenty thirty two years old? Holy?
Speaker 1: Did you just said you were born that year? How old? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I bought it for three thousand, three hundred dollars. Um,
Speaker 1: I talked him down. I bought it from a guy
Speaker 1: named Carl, and then I named the van after him
Speaker 1: because he was the coolest guy. He was like a
Speaker 1: seven year old wood worker. He lived in like a
Speaker 1: role very small town in Vermont. It was so excited
Speaker 1: about the van and lived in the van and Sedona
Speaker 1: the year before. He was just super amazing. So um yeah,
Speaker 1: So I bought the van and then I got it
Speaker 1: the inside and put a bed, a sink, a heater.
Speaker 1: I have a van that was all about three or
Speaker 1: four grand and then how many miles did you get
Speaker 1: the van four with? When you spent a little biodometer
Speaker 1: has been broken since I got it. It has six Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was broken when Carl, the previous owner had
Speaker 1: it as well, So we have no idea. Well isn't
Speaker 1: that scary though, because you know we were talking earlier
Speaker 1: that Carl could die and he won't die, but like
Speaker 1: he could die. It's funny too, because I had the
Speaker 1: transmission go out and I brought it. I brought it
Speaker 1: to the shop and the guy was like basically told
Speaker 1: me to scrap the van because it's like the building
Speaker 1: the transmission is worth more than the van itself. And
Speaker 1: I was like, did you see the inside though, And
Speaker 1: so I showed him that I live in it and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it was like two thousand dollars to fix it,
Speaker 1: but that was like a one time fix. And my
Speaker 1: transmission I have a three year warranty on it and
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars added on too, Like the seven thousand
Speaker 1: is still what is it like dollars less than a
Speaker 1: sprinter van. So I could fix the transmission every year
Speaker 1: for like for forty years in comparison to buying a
Speaker 1: sprinter van and having bills. I just don't know cars
Speaker 1: that well. So is that is that logistically possible to
Speaker 1: just keep building the transmission and then the car literally
Speaker 1: will never die? Yeah? They have like they sup up
Speaker 1: old old cars and make them run again. It's just
Speaker 1: you just have to keep fixing it. When of one
Speaker 1: of I guess when something dies it's basically either the
Speaker 1: van or the car isn't worth as much as fixing it,
Speaker 1: or they can't find the problem, so that not finding
Speaker 1: the problem would be the only issue. But I maintain it.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the nice thing about those the older
Speaker 1: vehicles is they're less, less electronic, and more mechanical, so
Speaker 1: they're easier to pinpoint the problems with them. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but michell before we let you go, because we need
Speaker 1: to let you go. But one of the one of
Speaker 1: the most common questions I got asked about the van
Speaker 1: is is what kind of advice I would have for people?
Speaker 1: And I always struggle with that question because my situation
Speaker 1: is very different than a lot of the people that
Speaker 1: are inquiring about what advice I would have for them,
Speaker 1: especially because most of people inquiring are are women, and
Speaker 1: I feel like women in the van life community or
Speaker 1: minority right, Like it's about it's predominantly men um and
Speaker 1: you kind of we're in a unique situation or not
Speaker 1: not not so much, but you like pulled yourself up
Speaker 1: by the bootstraps essentially and put yourself into this lifestyle. Um,
Speaker 1: whereas I kind of I had just a kind of
Speaker 1: a different approach to it. So what kind of advice
Speaker 1: would you have for the listeners, like they said, they're
Speaker 1: they're predominantly women, and and the ones that are interested
Speaker 1: in maybe getting into van life, what advice would you
Speaker 1: have for them to make that transition or that leap
Speaker 1: or uh anything before they would fully dive in. So
Speaker 1: before I get into that, I do specifically remember someone
Speaker 1: asking me the hardest thing about van life and I
Speaker 1: did respond dating, which is so funny now to think back,
Speaker 1: because it is it is more difficult, I feel, like
Speaker 1: to date, like finding a bathroom in a shower, and
Speaker 1: like carking is easy. Like it's really easy in my
Speaker 1: opinion to live in a van. Some people would say not,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, dating is probably the hardest part, I
Speaker 1: think because it just gets weird. But like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: it's not like you're focusing on day anyway. So it's
Speaker 1: if that's the hardest part, it's not that hard because
Speaker 1: exactly make it a priority and it's fun. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: but so as far as advice, um, I car camped
Speaker 1: with an ex boyfriend of mine before I got the van.
Speaker 1: So he had like a four runner and we would
Speaker 1: sleep in the back and so I got experienced with
Speaker 1: him and knowing how to car camp and feeling comfortable
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. So like, as a woman,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are just afraid, like
Speaker 1: Jared's afraid to live in a in a van and yeah,
Speaker 1: so so as a woman, that's like even you know more.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that it's more scary, but no,
Speaker 1: I definitely, yeah, I mean it's it's a little bit
Speaker 1: scarier if there's no doubt about it. Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: would say maybe doing it with someone like even do it,
Speaker 1: Like if anyone wants to come for a week road trip,
Speaker 1: I'll show you how to do it, you know, like
Speaker 1: I'll show you where to park and where to feel safe.
Speaker 1: I never park in a place where I don't feel safe. Um,
Speaker 1: And I think just going for it is like the
Speaker 1: big one and knowing that it's not going to be
Speaker 1: as difficult as you think it is. Doing a lot
Speaker 1: of research. I washed a lot of YouTube videos, but
Speaker 1: it's really it's really not that difficult. You just have
Speaker 1: to like feed yourself, find a shower, and find parking.
Speaker 1: Those are like the three things that are like different
Speaker 1: than your normal living in an apartment and stay warm,
Speaker 1: depending on where you are. Yeah, following following, the weather
Speaker 1: is good, but I have a heater, so I have
Speaker 1: yet to install my heater. It's since ampen meaning to do.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you. I think it's just something
Speaker 1: that you need to just do and then decide later
Speaker 1: on whether you think it's uh, it's for you or not. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's smart. Like no, if you feel uncomfortable in
Speaker 1: a situation, like I, don't get out and get into
Speaker 1: my van too much once I've parked. I always park
Speaker 1: if I'm in like a city or in a small town,
Speaker 1: a park near a nice park with nice houses. I
Speaker 1: don't park in in what seems like dangerous locations. I
Speaker 1: very rarely park by myself with no cell service, just
Speaker 1: so that I have that extra I have family members
Speaker 1: that follow me uh on my phone to know where
Speaker 1: I am at all times. Is there is there anything
Speaker 1: at all? Is there anything? Is there anything at all
Speaker 1: that you regret doing or not doing? Uh, as far
Speaker 1: as my builder like, anything at all? Anything in general
Speaker 1: about the van or the lifestyle you've chosen. No regrets,
Speaker 1: no regrets. No, I'm not no, Yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like everything that has gotten me
Speaker 1: to this point has happened for a reason. So I
Speaker 1: feel like it's all been good and it's all been
Speaker 1: extremely fun. I was really happy that I did it
Speaker 1: by myself for a year. Like now I have Kira
Speaker 1: traveling with me, I'm traveling with more people. But I
Speaker 1: was just kicking it alone, meeting new people, going to
Speaker 1: festivals bet or like music concerts. You can't really do
Speaker 1: that with COVID, but I was doing things by myself,
Speaker 1: going to restaurants by myself, doing computer work, learning how
Speaker 1: to use my tripod and take photos and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: So it was like really fulfilling to learn new things,
Speaker 1: do something independently, not relying on anyone else. That was Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a it's a big recommendation. I yeah, you're killing
Speaker 1: it too. Um well, So for the listeners out there
Speaker 1: that want to follow along with Michelle, be sure to
Speaker 1: checker out on Instagram. It's Michelle dot Werence with two
Speaker 1: ease at the end of Lawrence, Yeah, everything was taken.
Speaker 1: Why don't you just DM Michelle dot Lawrence and be like, YO,
Speaker 1: give me this this uh this handle? Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like she's got it. So and now you're
Speaker 1: Lawrence with two eas Anyways, all right, Michelle, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Uh, and
Speaker 1: hopefully our vans will cross paths one of these days soon. Again,
Speaker 1: thank you, Michelle. Yes, nice meeting you too. All Right, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to help I suck at dating and we
Speaker 1: are in the final segment of Labor Day edition of
Speaker 1: this podcast. Anyways, I don't know what I'm saying right now.
Speaker 1: I'm just speaking words that come to my brain. We've
Speaker 1: got the whole group of dudes at your disposal, we
Speaker 1: have emails, we've got shared's dating terms, We've got so
Speaker 1: many dudes and owns things to be answered, questions. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stop talking now and hand it over
Speaker 1: to Jared. I think that's the best for everybody. So
Speaker 1: we have some dating terms over here, like we promised earlier,
Speaker 1: and then Michelle so kindly agrees to this with her presence.
Speaker 1: That was a great segment. She was really really cool.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that uh you brought her on. But the
Speaker 1: first dating term and curious if you guys have any
Speaker 1: idea what this possibly means. Hopefully we haven't talked about
Speaker 1: it on the podcast. Before you guys know what mooning is,
Speaker 1: And no, I don't mean pulling your pants down. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's the only definition of mooning I know is when
Speaker 1: you pull your pants down. Any guesses over there, Easton Mark,
Speaker 1: what could mooning be in the dating world. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: guess it's when you're so into somebody you're mooning over them,
Speaker 1: so like, you know, you are fawning over them, like
Speaker 1: you can't see anything but them. Unfortunately, that is incorrect
Speaker 1: Eastern Any guesses. I think it's a shortening of honeymooning,
Speaker 1: like the honeymoon phase, like you're you're just you're seeing
Speaker 1: things through rose colored glasses. You're ignoring some potential faults
Speaker 1: or red flags. Oh that's such a good guess. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: not the correct one. Mooning. This is the correct definition
Speaker 1: on zeus dot com. So please take this with a
Speaker 1: grain of salt. Is someone texting you too much? That's
Speaker 1: usually when people moon, And no, I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: pulling down your pants. Is so someone your backside mooning?
Speaker 1: Someone is putting your phone on. Do not disturb when
Speaker 1: someone calls you so named because oh it's so named
Speaker 1: because of a little half moon icon on your iPhone.
Speaker 1: The example is I can't handle all of Jake's text
Speaker 1: right now. I'm going to moon him, akut him on
Speaker 1: do not disturb. That's pretty funny. I'm curious if people
Speaker 1: are getting mooned right now listening to this. What about monkeying?
Speaker 1: You guys know what money is in the dating world.
Speaker 1: Before we jump to monkeying, I do want to say
Speaker 1: that I am always on mooning mode. I'm always mooning everyone.
Speaker 1: My phone is never not on do not disturb the
Speaker 1: moon guy. I am a big mooning guy. And you
Speaker 1: want to know what I'm just gonna share a quick
Speaker 1: story before we jumped to monkeying. Is this actually came
Speaker 1: to bite me in the butt? Not too long ago,
Speaker 1: maybe two or three months ago. I was getting out
Speaker 1: of my car and I dropped my phone in the
Speaker 1: middle of the street, and I went back up into
Speaker 1: Kalen's apartment. Was we ate dinner, was sitting there. An
Speaker 1: hour later, I was like, where's my phone. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen my phone in a while. Uh, And so I
Speaker 1: started freaking out, and I tracked on Kalin's phone, and
Speaker 1: it turns out it's like, you know, a mile away.
Speaker 1: So someone picked up my phone and walked away with it, uh,
Speaker 1: And so I started texting and calling him, and eventually
Speaker 1: I got through to him and I was like, hey, like,
Speaker 1: I think you have my phone, and this guy was
Speaker 1: like super uh, super helpful, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: here I am, come meet me and you can get
Speaker 1: your phone. And so I was like, cool, kail, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your phone. Go get my phone. But
Speaker 1: since my phone was on mooning mode, I called this
Speaker 1: guy like fifty times and I was like, this guy's
Speaker 1: blowing me off. He's gonna steal my phone and cash
Speaker 1: in on a big payday. But the phone, the phone
Speaker 1: calls just weren't like illuminating the screen or anything that.
Speaker 1: And so it took me like three hours to track
Speaker 1: this guy down and eventually I did. Um. So that
Speaker 1: so mooning, as great as it is, I might come
Speaker 1: to bite you in the butt. Sometimes, gonna stop mooning. No,
Speaker 1: I still moon to this day. I'm just gonna be
Speaker 1: more more more conscious of where I leave my phone.
Speaker 1: You know, Dean moons himself monkeying and he guesses what
Speaker 1: monkey could be in the dating world. I think it's
Speaker 1: a shortened form of monkey branching, and it's going from
Speaker 1: partner to partner as monkeys do to trees. That's what
Speaker 1: exactly what I was thinking to see. I think it's
Speaker 1: something different. I think it's um you know, you know,
Speaker 1: the great apes have a practice of um picking like
Speaker 1: bugs and things out of their partners, like back in
Speaker 1: their hair. I think it's some kind of intimate exchange
Speaker 1: like that. I think it's it's a very deep level
Speaker 1: of intimacy. I love how much you looked into it,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately you're wrong. While we're on the while we're
Speaker 1: making outrageous claims too, I'm gonna say that monkeying is
Speaker 1: uh some weird like fixation with monkey tails. And so
Speaker 1: what you do is you make your partner put on
Speaker 1: a tail that looks like a monkey tail. That's monkey wow.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's exactly the way it is. Dean Mark
Speaker 1: is correct on this one. When it comes to dating,
Speaker 1: monkey means bouncing from relationships to relationship without having time
Speaker 1: for yourself in between monkey and can lead to repeating
Speaker 1: old patterns and developing bad habits when it comes to
Speaker 1: the type of people you go out of. The example
Speaker 1: is Aaron, stop monkeying and give yourself a break from
Speaker 1: dating for once. Yeah, And we don't like monkeying, Especially
Speaker 1: on this podcast. We always encourage people have to take
Speaker 1: some time for themselves. Figure that you can't love someone
Speaker 1: else until you love yourself, and you can't love yourself
Speaker 1: if you're always monkey in. I couldn't agree more. Do
Speaker 1: you guys want one more? Should we get to emails? Look?
Speaker 1: All right, so this one is our bombing? Our bomb bombing? Oh,
Speaker 1: Dean sounds like he knows this one. No, I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to think of what are bombing? Because the letter
Speaker 1: are bombing? Yes, of course, of course. I think what
Speaker 1: it means is when you tell someone over and over again,
Speaker 1: how how how real they are. They are so sick
Speaker 1: of being called real, but you keep our bombing them.
Speaker 1: You're dropping out our bomb on them about how real
Speaker 1: they always are. It's like, stop being real and just
Speaker 1: be like, you know, just be a little fake for
Speaker 1: a second. Okay, okay, interesting, Mark Gee, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of like inappropriate word that starts with R that
Speaker 1: they might be abbreviating here, and I can't come up
Speaker 1: with one. I'm gonna say it's um it's as I
Speaker 1: know you spelled it that way, but it's a tweak.
Speaker 1: It's when somebody's always saying, are are you here yet?
Speaker 1: Are you okay? Are you? Are? You got at me?
Speaker 1: What's going on? Nice? That's a good one. That's a
Speaker 1: good very annoying. I get that, I have. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I have two guesses. I know this is allowed. Two guesses.
Speaker 1: One is, uh, someone who's always interested in a certain
Speaker 1: job that may start with an R. That's something I
Speaker 1: was thinking about. That's okay, interesting interesting answers here. That's
Speaker 1: the race car driver, radio host. But the other idea is, uh,
Speaker 1: maybe it's someone who's constantly saying like, I'm so ready,
Speaker 1: I'm ready. I'm just so, I'm so ready for anything,
Speaker 1: but they're never actually starting anything. I'm ready, I'm ready
Speaker 1: to have kids, I'm ready to move in with you.
Speaker 1: I think East's on it. I think that's the answer.
Speaker 1: I'm on Eastan's camp now. I think that that should
Speaker 1: be the answer, because that's the best one i've heard. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: everybody is wrong here. Are bombing is when you read
Speaker 1: someone's message and don't respond, you are are bombing them.
Speaker 1: Example is Alex is totally are bombing me. I can
Speaker 1: see he read my text two hours ago. And he
Speaker 1: still hasn't responded, leaving someone on red exactly. But but
Speaker 1: that's not the lingo in with me. If I said that,
Speaker 1: I'd be like that guy from two that guy is
Speaker 1: So if you texted us that, we would totally would
Speaker 1: have our bombing, all right? So should we get to emails? Yeah? Lazy.
Speaker 1: As a question, she says, my friend's boyfriend of a
Speaker 1: little over a month with dming a girl on Instagram
Speaker 1: and flirting with her. He also told her to come
Speaker 1: out to l A. My friend found out, she broke
Speaker 1: up with him. Our other friend says, why he wasn't cheating?
Speaker 1: They were only talking on Instagram. We say he was
Speaker 1: cheating on her. Would you say he was cheating? And
Speaker 1: do you believe wants a cheater always a cheater? Uh?
Speaker 1: To answer the first part of the question, Yes, he
Speaker 1: was cheating on you, maybe not physically, but definitely emotionally
Speaker 1: and definitely planning to cheat on you physically if he
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten there if he went to Los Angeles. Number
Speaker 1: two to that question, wants a cheater, always a cheater.
Speaker 1: I disagree with that for obvious reasons, but that's just
Speaker 1: my take. I don't know Jerry what do you think.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty much on board with you on both ones. So,
Speaker 1: like cheating to me is kind of well, it's it's
Speaker 1: not the same. But like you know how there's different
Speaker 1: stages of murder. There's premeditated or there's you know, um,
Speaker 1: you know we're getting charged for second degree second exactly right.
Speaker 1: There's also different levels of cheating. So like, I do
Speaker 1: feel like this falls under the cheating term even though
Speaker 1: it's not physically cheating, Like it's kind of like, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: second degree cheating. If you will, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I just I'm sorry to interrupts you. I disagree with you.
Speaker 1: I think if this were a murder, this is premeditated murder,
Speaker 1: which is the worst type of murder. This is premeditated cheating,
Speaker 1: which is the worst type of cheating. But yeah, he
Speaker 1: didn't cheat yet, you know what I mean? Because but
Speaker 1: he had planned to, you could still get you could
Speaker 1: still get arrested for conspiring to murder someone. This guy
Speaker 1: should get done for conspiring to cheat on his gent.
Speaker 1: You don't get charged with first degree murder if the
Speaker 1: murder had never happened. Fair, Okay, I see where you're
Speaker 1: coming from there. Conspiracy to cheat, which is very bad,
Speaker 1: and I still think falls under the cheating label. Okay,
Speaker 1: but I I do agree, Like I could see the
Speaker 1: other friend saying, well, this isn't the worst level of cheating,
Speaker 1: and it's not, but it's still cheating. I agree. Secondly,
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with you, Deane. Once a cheater is
Speaker 1: not always a cheater. People change, people evolve, people grow,
Speaker 1: people mature. You have to give them, you know, you
Speaker 1: have to give people a second chance human beings. Things
Speaker 1: are not black and white. You know, everything is in
Speaker 1: the gray. I don't even think it's necessary. Like if
Speaker 1: you get cheated on, I don't think you owe that
Speaker 1: person a second chance. But if you date someone that's
Speaker 1: cheated in the past, that's maybe someone you owe that
Speaker 1: owe it to them and yourself for to figure out
Speaker 1: whether they're still going to be cheaters. And when I
Speaker 1: think about this, and as we were talking about the
Speaker 1: cheating thing, I've talked about this before, Like when I
Speaker 1: was much much younger than I am now, I like
Speaker 1: got drunk and kissed a girl while I was dating
Speaker 1: someone else. That's cheating. But that's like in my drunken
Speaker 1: in in uninhibited state, I made a mistake that I
Speaker 1: felt sorry for later on. That's like, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: a lesser form of cheating. Yea, that's right, And I'm
Speaker 1: grateful now that my girlfriend can look at that and
Speaker 1: forgive me for doing that because she understands what I
Speaker 1: did and why I did it and how stupid it
Speaker 1: was and however regret it, et cetera. So that's that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I thought of when you're saying that, and
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I didn't mean give the person
Speaker 1: that you cheated on a second chance, But like if
Speaker 1: someone has said, yes, I've cheated in a relationship before,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they're always a cheater. It just means that,
Speaker 1: like you can move on. They were in the wrong spot,
Speaker 1: they were young, they were stupid, totally, and I hope
Speaker 1: they also the audience realizes that, you know, we're with
Speaker 1: the analogies to murder and manslaughter. We're kind of a
Speaker 1: little you know, joking, let's you know, just I don't
Speaker 1: know the pretty grave things to do. That's grave things,
Speaker 1: but obviously one is far worse than the Listen, if
Speaker 1: you get if if I get cheated on, they're dead
Speaker 1: to me anyway, so they might as well be murdered.
Speaker 1: You know enough. Yeah, but you're right before I say
Speaker 1: anything else, that's really stupid. Maybe you should be one
Speaker 1: of the next email or we I kind of want
Speaker 1: to get Mark and Easton Steak on this too. What
Speaker 1: do you guys think? Well, real quick, um, I think
Speaker 1: women come out more fully formed than men do, and
Speaker 1: so and age boys and boys in their twenties are
Speaker 1: stupid and we'll do stupid things and they will realize
Speaker 1: how stupid that was and figure it out. So yes,
Speaker 1: I believe that people can change and mature. And also,
Speaker 1: you don't hear it talked about much, but people who
Speaker 1: cheat put themselves in a position to cheat. And that's
Speaker 1: exactly what this guy was doing. He was laying the
Speaker 1: groundword repeating. But but like, there is no it doesn't
Speaker 1: just happen. It's not just an accidental thing. You don't
Speaker 1: just fall on top of somebody. You set it up.
Speaker 1: You go, you're on a work trip and you invite
Speaker 1: somebody to your room, You go to the bar with
Speaker 1: somebody you work with, you start drinking together. There's usually
Speaker 1: alcohol involved, and if you start doing that, you are
Speaker 1: like being in your situation. You're drinking with that girl
Speaker 1: you ended up kissing her, well, probably should have been
Speaker 1: digging with her in the first place. When you had
Speaker 1: a girlfriend, you know what kind of you start going
Speaker 1: down the road. And this guy was going way full
Speaker 1: speed down the road. Yea, yeah, you put yourself in
Speaker 1: bad positions. But also mark to not under sell myself.
Speaker 1: You said guys are stupid in their early twenties. I
Speaker 1: thirty one years old, my friend, and I'm still I
Speaker 1: apologize that. Don't short s Tell me? Did Easton went
Speaker 1: away in? I don't know you. I don't know how
Speaker 1: he could say it any better than than you. Guys.
Speaker 1: How about this this guy was? This guy was not cheating, okay,
Speaker 1: he was just being nice just to a new friend,
Speaker 1: and I think he should be rewarded. He's a hero.
Speaker 1: I love the Devil's advocacy. It's great, but you're wrong, alright.
Speaker 1: From Amanda. My name is Amanda and I'm happily married.
Speaker 1: I've recently run into one of my exes and I
Speaker 1: have brought up a lot of emotions and anger when
Speaker 1: seeing him our relationship and badly and all those emotions
Speaker 1: came flooding back. Is this normal? Or how do I
Speaker 1: let go of everything? I by no means want to
Speaker 1: hash it out with this guy. I just want to
Speaker 1: not care anymore about what happened. Jared, what do you think? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's completely normal. Like again, we're humans. We have emotions,
Speaker 1: and we we do smart things and we do dumb things,
Speaker 1: and sometimes we care and sometimes we don't care. And
Speaker 1: about X is Yeah, it's it's very easy just to say, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't even care about that person anymore. Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like, yes, you're happy, you're married, and that's great,
Speaker 1: and you've moved on and that's amazing. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: you don't want any ill will towards this person. But
Speaker 1: I also don't want you to think that it's completely
Speaker 1: abnormal for you to see an X and then just
Speaker 1: feel weird about it. I mean I I like, you know,
Speaker 1: Ashley and I just were in Jersey visiting her family
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, and um, you know, we went
Speaker 1: to places where she was very depressed about a guy
Speaker 1: and she's like, this feels weird to be here with
Speaker 1: you because you're my husband. And here I was, like
Speaker 1: ten years ago in this very same spot, crying over
Speaker 1: a guy that I thought I was madly in love
Speaker 1: with and so you know, it's it's completely normal and
Speaker 1: you just have to accept that and and uh be
Speaker 1: okay with it. Yeah, I agree. I think it's totally
Speaker 1: normal to have old feelings uh reached the surface sometimes.
Speaker 1: But I think what really differentiates uh the good from
Speaker 1: the bad as in terms of like how you should
Speaker 1: feel about yourself is if you let those feelings lead
Speaker 1: to action, uh, And if they do lead to action
Speaker 1: involving this X of yours, that's when you should really
Speaker 1: start feeling bad about it, right, Because it's normal to
Speaker 1: have feelings. Like Jared said, we're all human, we all
Speaker 1: experience things, and it's it's stupid to uh say that
Speaker 1: everything that we've experienced is no longer going to affect
Speaker 1: us in the future. But if you let that affect
Speaker 1: your actions going forward, especially when you're committed to someone
Speaker 1: for us your life, that's when it gets bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of like the previous email or you know where
Speaker 1: this guy that was going to cheat on his girlfriend
Speaker 1: put himself in a really bad position. That's what usually happens.
Speaker 1: Like you have to kind of have that same mindset
Speaker 1: with this. Don't put yourself in a bad position like
Speaker 1: you're gonna have. Yeah, you're gonna see your ex and like,
Speaker 1: all these emotions are gonna come flooding back. But then
Speaker 1: you have to just move on with your life and
Speaker 1: realize you're happily married and look towards the future and
Speaker 1: don't dwell on the past. Don't like stalk this guy
Speaker 1: on social media to see what he's up to and
Speaker 1: then like think about reaching out. Don't just don't even
Speaker 1: put yourself in a bad situation like that. Like, just
Speaker 1: accept the fact that it's okay that these emotions came
Speaker 1: running back to you, and then you know, look, look
Speaker 1: towards the future, you know, with the person that you're
Speaker 1: happy with right now. This is very Tanya rad advice
Speaker 1: I'm about to givet but I think it could already
Speaker 1: like it. Write this guy a letter, write down everything
Speaker 1: you want to say, get it all out, and then
Speaker 1: destroy the letter and do not send it. I like
Speaker 1: that way of getting it all off your cheft and
Speaker 1: everything you would like to say to him, but without
Speaker 1: engaging him, which would be weird, without bringing him back
Speaker 1: into your world again, it's all weird. Just do it,
Speaker 1: write it down and maybe even symbolically, if you've got
Speaker 1: a safe way to do it, burn it, And there's
Speaker 1: a symbolism there of getting it all out and then
Speaker 1: letting it all go up into the air. That's such
Speaker 1: good advice. Why has Tanya never been on help by second? Dang?
Speaker 1: Would it? Basically he's got a small glimpse of air
Speaker 1: and we saw how great it was, So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I would it be helpful to talk about it like
Speaker 1: with a friend or something like, like just so you
Speaker 1: can get it out in a better way. Or do
Speaker 1: you think like you shouldn't bring anyone else into this
Speaker 1: at all besides her favorite podcast? I well, the favorite
Speaker 1: You can always bring it to your favorite podcast. Obviously
Speaker 1: we're an open door here, but I do. I think
Speaker 1: it's a great idea. Like you know sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: not that I can't talk about things with Ashley, but
Speaker 1: I can't talk about them as extensively or as in
Speaker 1: detail as I want to that I could with like
Speaker 1: one of my closest guy friends, you know. And she
Speaker 1: actually just experienced that. She hung out with my sister
Speaker 1: and one of our really close friends. They went to
Speaker 1: the beach and I went golfing, and she got to
Speaker 1: like she said, she was like it was so much fun.
Speaker 1: Because we got to talk about like x is and
Speaker 1: boys and just like you know, talk about dumb stuff
Speaker 1: that like I just I can't talk to you about.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I totally understand that, Like I you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm sure if I saw an X, I'd want
Speaker 1: to just like vent about it for thirty you know,
Speaker 1: for thirty seconds, and I can't do that to her,
Speaker 1: so I would talk about it with a friend. I
Speaker 1: think your advice is valid, Easton, And it's it's always
Speaker 1: nice to hear from a friend about why that person
Speaker 1: is your ex and they usually know the best liston
Speaker 1: as to why they're ex. Right, It's always good to
Speaker 1: get it that way as well. Um sweet, Well, you guys,
Speaker 1: I feel like that might have been our most successful
Speaker 1: email response segment ever. I think feeling good about it.
Speaker 1: I feel pretty good about it. It was a pleasure
Speaker 1: to be a part of it. That just means Mark
Speaker 1: east and you guys need to involve yourselves with these
Speaker 1: emails every single week. So you've just added another checklist
Speaker 1: to the old job. Sorry about that. There's no doubt
Speaker 1: if there's if there's one good thing to come from
Speaker 1: this whole COVID pandemic and having to zoom in for
Speaker 1: these podcast is we get to see Easton and Mark
Speaker 1: a lot more than we I guess had eventually started
Speaker 1: seeing less and less of them in studio, So I'll
Speaker 1: take it. You know. It's like the small victories that
Speaker 1: we have to learn to live with. And I think
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's only good for the Help by
Speaker 1: Syco Dating podcast. They were becoming too big for our podcast,
Speaker 1: but now with COVID they're forced to zoom right back
Speaker 1: down to earth. Hey, listen, we're gonna we're still gonna
Speaker 1: win that People's Choice Award this year or next year.
Speaker 1: I don't remember when we said we were going to
Speaker 1: win one, but we're going. We can't account this year. Yes,
Speaker 1: and when we win it, Mark in Easton, I We'll
Speaker 1: probably start doing this podcast three or four times a week,
Speaker 1: so hopefully guys get used to that. Anyways, that's gonna
Speaker 1: do it for this week's episode of Help I Suck
Speaker 1: At Dating. Thank you guys all for listening. Big thank
Speaker 1: you to Michelle. Be sure to follow her on Instagram
Speaker 1: is at Michelle dot Lawrence with two ease on the
Speaker 1: end of Lawrence UM. Big thank you to Lizzie and
Speaker 1: Amanda for emailing in. Hopefully we were able to help
Speaker 1: you guys with your questions. And of course, what is
Speaker 1: Mark holding up over there? East and I were both
Speaker 1: holding up our People's Choice Awards. People's Choice? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we're all look at that. You guys both have
Speaker 1: it right in front of you. Isn't that nice? What
Speaker 1: do I have? I have a Slowie Kardashian candle and
Speaker 1: I've got this Starbucks cup. But hey, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: this time next year, we're all going to be able
Speaker 1: to hold our people Choice Awards up to the zoom
Speaker 1: video camera. Big thank you to all you guys, Jared,
Speaker 1: Mark Easton, Thank you guys for being part of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you to the listeners. Be sure to tune next week,
Speaker 1: where maybe we will suck just a little bit less.
Speaker 1: Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts