Speaker 1: Kaboom. If you thought four hours a day, minutes a
Speaker 1: week was enough, I think again. He's the last remnants
Speaker 1: of the old republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He
Speaker 1: treats crackheads in the Ghetto Cutter the same as the
Speaker 1: rich pill poppers in the penthouse the Clearinghouse of Hot
Speaker 1: takes break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with
Speaker 1: Ben Maller starts right now in the air everywhere and
Speaker 1: a very Happy Friday to you. Is another edition of
Speaker 1: The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller and Danny g Radio
Speaker 1: And we welcome into the podcast do Joe, So you
Speaker 1: know the drill. Normally on Friday Friday Friday, we like
Speaker 1: to bring somebody into the podcast that I know, someone
Speaker 1: who I am a fan of. And this week we
Speaker 1: are in for a special. If you're familiar with the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles media scene, uh you know who this guy is.
Speaker 1: But if not, you're gonna learn all about him. One
Speaker 1: of the more interesting characters in media. He a longtime,
Speaker 1: longtime writer, beat writer columnists Between the by Lines his autobiography.
Speaker 1: He wrote a while back there about his career in
Speaker 1: sports journalism. But Doug chric Corean is the name he
Speaker 1: hosted a very popular radio show in Los Angeles. Co
Speaker 1: hosted the McDonald Douglas Show on the airwaves around l
Speaker 1: A for a number of years. But his bread and
Speaker 1: butter as a sportswriter at the Los Angeles Herald Examiner,
Speaker 1: the Long Beach Press Telegram, and back in the days
Speaker 1: when being a sportswriter was a massive, massive undertaking, newspapers
Speaker 1: dominated the landscape. It's not like today with the Internet
Speaker 1: and social media and all that stuff. And Uh, Doug's
Speaker 1: the perfect guy to get on because we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: to Doug about all his career and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But he also knows Jerry West better than just about anybody.
Speaker 1: And we can get into the documentary that has been
Speaker 1: going on, the docuseeries, not a documentary, the docuseriies about
Speaker 1: the Lakers. Also, I've got to get in to some
Speaker 1: point here with Doug Wilt Chamberlain and the bigger than
Speaker 1: life stories about Wilt, and Doug traveled with the Lakers
Speaker 1: and was around Wilt new Wilt very well for a
Speaker 1: number of years. So we'll get into some of that
Speaker 1: and uh and get into it. So right now, let's
Speaker 1: give it up for the man, the myth, the legend
Speaker 1: Doug Chrick Coreyan, who joins us now on the Fifth
Speaker 1: Hour with Ben Maller and Danny g And Doug, I've
Speaker 1: known you a long time. I'm a massive fan. Why
Speaker 1: have we not had you on this podcast? Suit of
Speaker 1: bad job by me? Dog? I don't know, but it
Speaker 1: has been a cultural derivation for me to talk to you.
Speaker 1: You know, man, how much I like you. I patterned
Speaker 1: my radio career after you. You got to remember that
Speaker 1: you were my favorite. And uh, of course I get
Speaker 1: that much older than you. I don't ain't sure when
Speaker 1: I started were you in radio? Back know, I was
Speaker 1: a listener. I listened to you and the Big Nasty
Speaker 1: Joe McDonald. You guys said you dominated the afternoon drive
Speaker 1: airwaves in l A. And then, uh, it was one
Speaker 1: of you, one of the people that when I got
Speaker 1: to know you, I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool
Speaker 1: you and and Big Joe and those guys, because because
Speaker 1: I listened to you, and then I got into the business,
Speaker 1: and then you guys kind of became my friends and stuff.
Speaker 1: So that was pretty cool early on. And well, you
Speaker 1: hold let me tell you something that I've never told you. This.
Speaker 1: You hold the distinction of being one of the few
Speaker 1: people in sports talk radio and in sports the big
Speaker 1: nasty never he liked you. He really genuine like you.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you did it. You and him
Speaker 1: for buddies. Yeah, we we had a few radio beefs,
Speaker 1: a couple of but we we did actually we had
Speaker 1: a couple of radios. But but Joe and I became
Speaker 1: you know, we were good friends, and we had a
Speaker 1: little radio like a radio beef at a M eleven fifty.
Speaker 1: But then we but then we were good to go.
Speaker 1: Then we were we were we were, we were great
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, miss Joe, Uh, why can you imagine?
Speaker 1: You know, for those who don't know that didn't hear
Speaker 1: Doug hosted the number one afternoon show. You know how
Speaker 1: many years did that show run? Doug? You and Camp
Speaker 1: we were there three years, and then at eestn we
Speaker 1: were there five years. And then of course we were
Speaker 1: a k Max and you know, we did some stuff
Speaker 1: out here in Long Beach, but we were together off
Speaker 1: and on for thirteen years, really solid for nine years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And what made that show so good? What do you
Speaker 1: think the secret? You know, I think the uniqueness of
Speaker 1: our show. Ben at the time time was and started.
Speaker 1: I was a lifetime sportswriter in Los Angeles. You know,
Speaker 1: I go back to ninety governor Lakers in the series
Speaker 1: against the Celtics. I mean, I was a beat writer
Speaker 1: for the Lakers and Will Chamber and Jerry Western Eljam
Speaker 1: Baylor were there. And Joe went to every sporting event
Speaker 1: as you know, every Godger game, every Clipper game, every
Speaker 1: Laker game, and every Ram game, Raider game. Joe was
Speaker 1: working in radio. So I think because of you've got
Speaker 1: a lot of inside stuff because of us. Because I
Speaker 1: was part of the sporting senior all those years, I
Speaker 1: knew everyone, you know. I was very good friends with
Speaker 1: Al Davis and John Wood and I mean you name it,
Speaker 1: and I knew him because I covered them all. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that was the uniqueness. A lot of people
Speaker 1: that get in sports talk radio did not have that
Speaker 1: kind of background where we were actually when we were working,
Speaker 1: like for instance, when I was on the radio at
Speaker 1: that time. Now it's not so unique. Today's wortswriters are
Speaker 1: in it, but not a lot of sportswriters when I started,
Speaker 1: there was no sport. Very few they start hiring them then,
Speaker 1: but very few sportswriters were on the air in those days.
Speaker 1: You know, I think maybe Krnheiser was. I'm not even
Speaker 1: sure back but that's what made us unique in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles because when you listen to us, we knew what
Speaker 1: what we were talking about because we have so much
Speaker 1: inside information. Well, and and Big Joe like ran the
Speaker 1: Dodger locker room. I it was unreal like everybody, the
Speaker 1: Dodgers and the Lakers. I mean he was there every
Speaker 1: single day. I didn't go to very Dodger game. I
Speaker 1: went to a lot of Laker games. I definitely, you know,
Speaker 1: in New Time and everything else, I definitely did that.
Speaker 1: But I think what made that it was a free
Speaker 1: flowing as you know operation. We used to rip the
Speaker 1: hell out of me. I mean, what other radio show
Speaker 1: where the here co host RiPPs you all the time
Speaker 1: and that's okay. We used to have an argument and
Speaker 1: my a moron or my imbecile? Amight, Indio, what's one
Speaker 1: I might today? Joe? You know, it was all tongue
Speaker 1: in cheek, but a tongue of cheek on the square
Speaker 1: with Joe, as you know, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: And then you know you think about oh boy, you know,
Speaker 1: Joe passed away a few years ago, but the what
Speaker 1: he would have been doing with some of the stuff
Speaker 1: that's happened Doug the last five years or so? Ho
Speaker 1: canoli man the world? The world we live in now,
Speaker 1: she's the GM of the Lakers. Would be assassinated, verbally, persecuted,
Speaker 1: assassinated and viscerated. I can use one word after another
Speaker 1: and describing what happened. Yeah so so so do let
Speaker 1: me ask you, now, you were a very successful sports writer,
Speaker 1: the beat guy columnists for a long time. What was
Speaker 1: what was easier for it was the radio? Is it right?
Speaker 1: In the column? What what did you find writing a column?
Speaker 1: You know my nature. I'm a writer, you know, I
Speaker 1: literally thousands and thousands of stories and thousands of sports columns.
Speaker 1: I mean, I became a sports comics in nineteen Thrillo
Speaker 1: gave me the column that I think it was seventy three,
Speaker 1: seventy two or seventy three. And you know, I was
Speaker 1: the beat writer for a long time. I covered the Lakers,
Speaker 1: I covered the Rams for seven seasons during the seventies,
Speaker 1: and I coduced basketball there in the Walton years Sydney
Speaker 1: which years, and you know, and did all the boxing.
Speaker 1: But I became an actual Pool Time columnist in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy eight met On. That's all I wrote were columns said,
Speaker 1: although although I took ironically you get to kick out
Speaker 1: this Ben and nineteen eighty five, I believe who was
Speaker 1: it was. I think Spencer left the Laker beat at
Speaker 1: the Hero examuter to go to the post, or somebody
Speaker 1: left and I took over the Laker beat. I wrote
Speaker 1: the column still, but I took over the Laker beat
Speaker 1: midway through the season that they finally exercised the Boston
Speaker 1: Celtic ghost member. They beat the Celtics in n and
Speaker 1: I covered that team the second half of the season. Okay,
Speaker 1: so when you writing, how many columns do you think
Speaker 1: you wrote in your time there, I would say literally,
Speaker 1: I mean, but this way, Harold, I was writing four
Speaker 1: column vote vote papers, Prestogram and Harold four columns a year,
Speaker 1: and yeah, right, uh, I'm sorry, of course, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: just got to do the math. I can't do it, Offen,
Speaker 1: but literally, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. I
Speaker 1: got it. At the end of the Long Beach prest
Speaker 1: Long Beach Press Telegram, I did a cityside column once
Speaker 1: a week. Also in the last two years era, which
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed, I got into hard news. I did
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on cityside, and I recently did
Speaker 1: that with the late and great Long Beach Report, which
Speaker 1: I did one story. It was more political, you know,
Speaker 1: knocking the local mayor and stuff like that. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: the nice thing about that column, even though it was
Speaker 1: very political, I never mentioned Republican, I never mentioned Democrat.
Speaker 1: I never mentioned Trump, I never mentioned Biden. I just
Speaker 1: mentioned the local people. And you know that I wasn't
Speaker 1: left when your right winger, I wrote what I thought
Speaker 1: was fair. Anyway, that was a different time of my life. Well,
Speaker 1: and also we'll get to that, but I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: right in the column, like did how often did you
Speaker 1: get writers? How often did you get writer's block? We
Speaker 1: just didn't have anything. Never you never got it. You
Speaker 1: never you want something. Then when you write columns, and
Speaker 1: there's certain you know, obviously I would interview a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but there's a lot of columns you right
Speaker 1: off the top of your head, I think, well, like
Speaker 1: I'd wake up on a for instance, at the Press
Speaker 1: telling you am, I'd wake up on a Monday. They
Speaker 1: wanted a Tuesday, and maybe I didn't go off the
Speaker 1: Dodger Stadium on uh Sunday or Anaheim Stadium, or maybe
Speaker 1: I didn't cover a RAM game, or they weren't in town.
Speaker 1: You know, this is early they left the ninety four.
Speaker 1: Of course, the last six to the last parts of
Speaker 1: my career, they weren't even in town. But I would
Speaker 1: come up with stories on my own, you know, and
Speaker 1: I think some of the best columns I ever wrote
Speaker 1: those kinds of stories, just making them up on the
Speaker 1: you know, just I get an idea and expanded into
Speaker 1: a column and I thought it would be pretty good.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times I would I would do
Speaker 1: a local piece. I'd go for a walk around and
Speaker 1: just do a mood piece and be not a lot
Speaker 1: of my sports columns were non sports, and people love
Speaker 1: those kind of columns. Yeah. And when you when you
Speaker 1: were doing you worked in the newspaper business, and the
Speaker 1: hay kind of the heyday. I don't know the hey day,
Speaker 1: but one of the hey days of the newspapers when
Speaker 1: you when you see what happened to your industry, and
Speaker 1: I see it in radio. Radio is a much different
Speaker 1: medium now than it was when I started. The way
Speaker 1: the business is run. But you you worked at some
Speaker 1: huge news papers, you had a lot of influence, and
Speaker 1: now you look at newspapers today, it's just not the same. Though.
Speaker 1: What's your perspective on what you've seen in your lifetime
Speaker 1: with a newspaper business. That's a great question. And then
Speaker 1: first off, I go back so far the first five
Speaker 1: years of my career. I sent my columns in her
Speaker 1: stories in like, for instance, from the Forum a Western
Speaker 1: Union Perdie Parristein would be there in the Western Union
Speaker 1: machine and I've given my piece of paper and it'd
Speaker 1: send it Western Union. When I was in Philadelphia, a
Speaker 1: guy uh would send it Western Union. That's the way
Speaker 1: it was sent in those days. When you're on the road,
Speaker 1: you do a Western Union. But what is so dramatically different,
Speaker 1: and it really is when you were sportswriter, especially at
Speaker 1: the Harold Los Angeles Hero examer which was a very
Speaker 1: prestigious sports section. The guy named Bud Fellow was sports
Speaker 1: in there when I got there, and we were the
Speaker 1: top sports of the people in town. Read the Harold
Speaker 1: Examber's sports You're too young to remember, but it was
Speaker 1: a very good sports page. Melvin Derst to call him.
Speaker 1: You know, Alan Mallaman was. You know, they had so
Speaker 1: many good writers, Lyle Spencer, I could go on on
Speaker 1: Tom Singer, Dick Miller, Bob Hunter. You know, we had
Speaker 1: a lot of good people. They're very good people. And
Speaker 1: sportswriters were treated like a king's I mean because in
Speaker 1: those days when I got there, in you know, before
Speaker 1: I I apprenticed at uh Cameriell Daily News and the
Speaker 1: Pacific Colisadium Post and Hilario Das Register, and then I
Speaker 1: got into the Hero Exameter. But they were treated on
Speaker 1: my gosh. I would go into Little Joe's at North Broadway,
Speaker 1: and Andie Stagnon, who was the bartender, never paid for anything.
Speaker 1: Ernie tasked at the Gaylor. I'll go have a drink
Speaker 1: or dinner. You you know, they would take care of sportswriters.
Speaker 1: There was there was prest There was prestige, right, There
Speaker 1: was a lot of because you didn't get see people
Speaker 1: read the newspapers in those days. Your only other outlet
Speaker 1: was TV and and the TV sports tasters would beyond
Speaker 1: for three minutes so you'd get your big info. You know,
Speaker 1: it's three minutes at eleven o'clock a night or something
Speaker 1: like that. But remember you couldn't wait to get the
Speaker 1: paper the next morning. And the Harold Examiner. When I
Speaker 1: first got there, was an afternoon paper, but then it
Speaker 1: became a morning paper and they would read, you know,
Speaker 1: what we wrote. They hinged on every word. I mean
Speaker 1: when I was with the Rams for seven years and
Speaker 1: I was a little different sportswriter from the normal guy.
Speaker 1: I injected my humor into my game stories, not the humor,
Speaker 1: my opinions, you know, and some humor of course, but
Speaker 1: but and writers in those days, a lot of them
Speaker 1: didn't do that. And I took very strong stands. Writers
Speaker 1: didn't do that in those days. In factors, some pettiness
Speaker 1: among my colleagues that would even talk to me on rampchips,
Speaker 1: because you know I would. I used to rip a
Speaker 1: guy named Chuck Knox how conservative he was, and you know,
Speaker 1: people just didn't do that in those days. Well I did,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, you're too young to remember, Chuck. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I remember you. I remember you guys talking about my show.
Speaker 1: You called them what ground shuck was it was as nickname.
Speaker 1: One other thing that Ben that was dramatically different. When
Speaker 1: I covered the Lakers like I was a twenty four
Speaker 1: year old kid. Can you imagine this? Here I am
Speaker 1: from a little place, a little farm community, a ten
Speaker 1: miles south of President or the southern Pacific town that
Speaker 1: started because of the railroad and stopped there. And you
Speaker 1: know this and that my graduating class was sixty five
Speaker 1: people in Bud frill Will assigned me to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: The Laker beat writer and left or whatever wasn't there
Speaker 1: and I took it over here. I'm traveling. But in
Speaker 1: those days, the writers traveled with the team. Do you
Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying? Traveled with the teams. THEE and
Speaker 1: the Times didn't travel that year during the regular season.
Speaker 1: They didn't send their beat writer, who I think was
Speaker 1: Dan after that year or Mouth Florence. I think it
Speaker 1: was Dan Affton. So so I would be with the
Speaker 1: team and would fly first class. Here I am flying
Speaker 1: first class. My first trip. Chick Heer and took me
Speaker 1: to every player on the team, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West.
Speaker 1: I played hearts. You love this story is a great story.
Speaker 1: On the first time I ever was on a Laker
Speaker 1: road trip, I played hearts. I was the fourth member.
Speaker 1: I knew how to play Hearts World Chamber, Jerry West,
Speaker 1: Elgin Baylor and me played Hearts together. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: what a twenty four year old wide eyed in my
Speaker 1: my boyhood idol was Elgin Baylor? Right, even doing the
Speaker 1: ticks he used to do with us. You remember they
Speaker 1: go to the side and everything, Well, you wouldn't twitchy
Speaker 1: and I. I loved Elgin and he was a great
Speaker 1: He and I used to play after that. We played
Speaker 1: a lot of Gin together. I never beat him. He
Speaker 1: was a great gin player. He and Chick were very
Speaker 1: good players. But here I am with the team. So
Speaker 1: you really get to know. Guys don't do that today?
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? Do you think they travel with the team.
Speaker 1: The sportswriters they'll do that, and the players don't want it, right,
Speaker 1: the players today don't want anything. They don't like it. No, No,
Speaker 1: in those days, you get you got to build the players.
Speaker 1: I mean, I knew Will Chamber. He didn't have anything
Speaker 1: going on. He called me doug'scot to dinner. Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: you know that it would we were that close. I'll
Speaker 1: walk around and walking around with him in the multiple
Speaker 1: one time we're walking, that's when you know, well, you
Speaker 1: have to understand Will, I loved it. He didn't talk
Speaker 1: to me the last ten years of his life. He
Speaker 1: got mad at me. But that's another story I might
Speaker 1: tell you later. But we were walking. You gotta understand.
Speaker 1: Will was very liberal with the truth, you know, hyperple
Speaker 1: levers his middle name. I could tell you a story
Speaker 1: after story with Will. He said, yeah, you look like it.
Speaker 1: In those days, I was kind of waiting with the
Speaker 1: I was a big guy with to Tim. You know,
Speaker 1: they were not the guy you see now. I was.
Speaker 1: I was within heavy weights and this. You said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been spressed six hundred one time, and I knew
Speaker 1: he didn't come on. I mean, I know, wait, you
Speaker 1: know I worked out when I was in college, and
Speaker 1: for four years I worked out three three hours every
Speaker 1: other day, was trying to get big and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And I know, wait, with six hundred pounds, you gotta
Speaker 1: be kidding. At that time, not very few many men
Speaker 1: in the world. Because Ben Spress six other towns and
Speaker 1: that was a great exaggeration as his claimed to have
Speaker 1: gotten to bed with. Yeah. I was going to ask
Speaker 1: you about that though, because that's the great urban legend.
Speaker 1: But she started. He wrote in his book that he
Speaker 1: he betted twenty thousand women there. You traveled with you
Speaker 1: travel with him? Yeah. We were in New York one
Speaker 1: one year, my second year of the team. He calls you, guy, said, well,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Well? Well do everyone in New York?
Speaker 1: He called me. I thought, just called the dinner. We
Speaker 1: went out to dinner a big galloners, some damn place.
Speaker 1: You know, I will say this, but you know, out
Speaker 1: with Will at nighttime, I mean I could the point
Speaker 1: after Boston one time. It really was. I mean, people
Speaker 1: gravitated to him. My god, he was a complete you know.
Speaker 1: He told me the great story in Cincinnati. He went
Speaker 1: to a mattenee in the afternoon, walked in and some
Speaker 1: ladies screens. She thought, you know, I mean, think of it.
Speaker 1: You see it walk what was a very imposing figure.
Speaker 1: He has seven one it boks in it. He had
Speaker 1: the longest slaves ever. Jabar doesn't have those long lads.
Speaker 1: We'll have those long you remember you said, did I
Speaker 1: did at the form and some woman's screams she got scared.
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, that's that's happened to me a couple
Speaker 1: of times. He gets scared because he liked to go
Speaker 1: to the Mattenees. You know, he didn't see movies and stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could go on and on about wild stories.
Speaker 1: What other story A great story. It was during the series,
Speaker 1: the nineteen NBA series, Alan alamand me and Wilter got
Speaker 1: off the plane and we were in the cab going
Speaker 1: to the you know, the hotel there. I can't remember
Speaker 1: what hotel it was. But he saw a couple really
Speaker 1: nice look and they were college girls and tells the
Speaker 1: cap stuff I want to get out, goes over there,
Speaker 1: talks to him, and then he comes back. He says,
Speaker 1: since I was it going, that's all right? So I
Speaker 1: think it was that night is when I went to
Speaker 1: the point after I saw him. I wasn't with him
Speaker 1: when I went there. The point after it was. There
Speaker 1: used to be one out in the San Fernando Valley.
Speaker 1: It was a very popular disco, you know, nice for
Speaker 1: kids that you know, not teenagers. You know, there's a nightclub.
Speaker 1: We're in there and we're sitting I see well, I said, well,
Speaker 1: what happened those two girls? I got him this afternoon
Speaker 1: and eastful? I mean, come on, they were both eighteen
Speaker 1: or night He said, oh yeah, but but he was
Speaker 1: in dery you just took it with it, like Jerry said,
Speaker 1: take it with a shrug. You know it was a
Speaker 1: dry Hello, Yeah, what do you what do you mean? No?
Speaker 1: I never saw Will play in person. I've heard amazing
Speaker 1: I've seen the numbers, I've seen video of him. But
Speaker 1: was he would be a dominant Yeah? He was a
Speaker 1: great player, great rebounded, really a good rebounding, great player.
Speaker 1: But the problem with Will, and there was a reason
Speaker 1: why I only won two World championships. There were times
Speaker 1: that he would hide. He just did not have the
Speaker 1: show we say competitive passion, even Shaquille. I mean I
Speaker 1: saw it. I saw it the first half of Game
Speaker 1: seven of the Celtics and Lakers. I was there. I
Speaker 1: saw it. First Halmlet happened. Russell out played him like
Speaker 1: you can't believe. They built that eight team for whatever.
Speaker 1: The big lead at half time and they caught up
Speaker 1: this or that. But Will was not very good that
Speaker 1: first half. And then I guess he got this legage
Speaker 1: when he came out and BBK should have put a
Speaker 1: back in, but he didn't. Then they lost by what
Speaker 1: one point or two points? Made death? You know you
Speaker 1: shot You're the perfect person as this because lately some
Speaker 1: of the chatter shows have been going back and forth
Speaker 1: and and just besmirching the name of all these guys
Speaker 1: that you covered back in the old days with the
Speaker 1: Lakers and saying just the NBA in general, like these
Speaker 1: guys weren't real, they couldn't do anything today and today's
Speaker 1: NBA and you've you're the perfect guy because you you
Speaker 1: covered those teams and now you you still I'm assuming
Speaker 1: you still watch the NBA occasionally there. How, how accurate
Speaker 1: are those people slamming the old NBA? Uh? What do
Speaker 1: you think about comparing the different eras and how the
Speaker 1: sports evolved? Well, I think, wait a minute, the players
Speaker 1: today athletically there was nothing like that. Yeah, all these teams,
Speaker 1: they had a lot of big, slow, white guys and
Speaker 1: they also unfortunately had a quota on a lot of
Speaker 1: those teams. You know that there'll only be so many
Speaker 1: African Americans even when I covered in not the Celtics,
Speaker 1: but there were certain teams that you knew but the
Speaker 1: great players could have played today, a lot of players
Speaker 1: would have been very mediocre, probably wouldn't even make it.
Speaker 1: I mean, just looked at every team, Anthony Edwards and Maranthum.
Speaker 1: You just go every team has a stud now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's just so many better athletes, and the
Speaker 1: athletes are better, and the teams would be better. But
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something. That good Laker team with will
Speaker 1: let's put this way, no one's going out rebounded. They
Speaker 1: would not rebound them today. You know they might be
Speaker 1: to my guest, Jim McMillan was six five and news
Speaker 1: the other forward on that team. Uh who was the
Speaker 1: other forward on the great Laker team of UHL was gone. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But like the other thing too, about the you know,
Speaker 1: the different eras and all that you think about Judge that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the nineteen seventy Yankees would get slaughtered today.
Speaker 1: Come on, a lot of the guys were five ft tan.
Speaker 1: But the best player route to play today. But I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you, though, that I do kind of respect
Speaker 1: the grit that guys had to have back in the
Speaker 1: olders when they had jobs. They had other jobs because
Speaker 1: they weren't making enough money in their sport and they
Speaker 1: had to do They had to become a construction worker,
Speaker 1: drive a truck, or sell cars or something like that.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine Can you imagine today? Though, like if
Speaker 1: the players today, I had to go out and get
Speaker 1: a job in the off season because they needed to
Speaker 1: pay their books. Yeah, it lose their minds. It was
Speaker 1: totally different then. I mean, do you think guys a
Speaker 1: guy like Elgin Bayder, I doubt if he lifted weights.
Speaker 1: Fabulous player, I'm telling you Eli in his prime, people
Speaker 1: before he heard his knees couldn't hold his only games anybody.
Speaker 1: I mean, there were guys Maurice Stokes who died very young.
Speaker 1: He could have been. There were Bill Russell would have
Speaker 1: been a very very good player today. To leave it
Speaker 1: was quick. He could get down there. You know, he
Speaker 1: couldn't shoot, but boy was here. They talked about this
Speaker 1: Williams and Boston Mark Williams or whatever's day. Men. Russell
Speaker 1: would have been great today defensively and he blew out
Speaker 1: of play. They're best players in those days, the Oscar Robertson's,
Speaker 1: Jerry West and those kind of walk. Prasiers and Well
Speaker 1: Walton came later, but they were great players. But there
Speaker 1: were I'd say the NBA that I covered sixty eight, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, starting in sixty eight, I'd say two thirds
Speaker 1: of players couldn't play today. I hate to say that
Speaker 1: that they couldn't because it maybe they could play better
Speaker 1: if they had the condition. Do you understand maybe need
Speaker 1: to stop these guys too, but there were two there
Speaker 1: were so many guys. Uh, Larry Siegfried maybe to play today,
Speaker 1: I doubt it. You know. Well the other thing too also,
Speaker 1: as I just popped in my the late great Tommy Hawkins,
Speaker 1: who I knew a little bit, but you and you
Speaker 1: know him. I know Tommy was around forever. But okay,
Speaker 1: there you go, perfect. So you Tommy told me a
Speaker 1: story one time in the early days when when the
Speaker 1: Lakers moved from Minneapolis, they were so desperate to get
Speaker 1: people to go to these games at the sports Arena
Speaker 1: that during the day sometimes they would drive around on
Speaker 1: a flat, flatbed truck around l A with a megaphone.
Speaker 1: That's that's insane, dog. You you think about what how
Speaker 1: that started and what it is like today. It's like
Speaker 1: a cult around around the Lakers these days, and what
Speaker 1: it was. It's insane. When you in this in sixty eight,
Speaker 1: when you started covering the team, what was the what
Speaker 1: was the buzz about where the Lakers? Did they own
Speaker 1: the town? It seemed like it was the Dodger town
Speaker 1: up until the Lakers took over at some point, maybe
Speaker 1: the eighties, but what was that dynamic light? Yeah, the
Speaker 1: Dodgers still were living off you know, the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: What they won three World championships? I think, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: there were no good anymore. Remember sixty nine? Have any teams?
Speaker 1: They were no good. They got a little better than
Speaker 1: seventy one. They want a penance, I believe seventy two,
Speaker 1: seventy four they got the worst series. Yeah, but the
Speaker 1: Lakers started when they got will they start selling out
Speaker 1: the form they get and you know, an exciting team
Speaker 1: and it was a good. Then you gotta help me.
Speaker 1: Who's the foreword on that seventy gonna? I'm gonna look
Speaker 1: it up now, nineteen what I haven't Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at up nuts right now. I mean it's
Speaker 1: gotta be a very good player that I forget. The
Speaker 1: seventy two Lakers we're looking at? Is that what we're
Speaker 1: looking at? Yeah? Good Rich and West for the back.
Speaker 1: All right? So here, let me give me the right
Speaker 1: you got Keith Lee roy ellis happy, happy Hairston. There
Speaker 1: you go, Yeah, you're right happy here. Number fifty two
Speaker 1: Doug in the program, Number fifty two. But number one,
Speaker 1: you are there, Yeah, joined crazy and not talking. Let
Speaker 1: me one of the reasons I to have you on
Speaker 1: here this crazy story which has been bouncing around this
Speaker 1: week about a guy that you know very well, Jerry West,
Speaker 1: and this documentary that he filed the lawsuit over this.
Speaker 1: I have not full disclosure. I have not watched the documentary.
Speaker 1: I have all my producers are huge Laker guys dog
Speaker 1: and they tell me, they tell me these things, and
Speaker 1: I've read stories about it. I've not actually seen it first,
Speaker 1: but apparently it's very demeaning to the legacy of Jerry
Speaker 1: Red Jerry West. I saw you wrote a column on
Speaker 1: I saw it on Facebook. You know that's where it was,
Speaker 1: and you explained in great detail there. But for the
Speaker 1: listener who doesn't have access to that dog on a
Speaker 1: scale of one at ten, obviously, Jerry's filed the lawsuit,
Speaker 1: But where where is this ad on the scale of
Speaker 1: anger here? For for Jerry and minus minus chian minus
Speaker 1: Chan's complete faith news, complete disinformation, complete, I mean the
Speaker 1: portrayal of Jerry West as a public persecution of one
Speaker 1: of the nice, nicest, grounded, amiable superstars in the history
Speaker 1: of sports. I know you've probably met him. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you met him at the forum because you're a nicer guy.
Speaker 1: I guarantee it's very nice to you. He's nice to everyone.
Speaker 1: And to portray him in this manner, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he's not. I talked to Jerry all the time. I
Speaker 1: mean I talked to him twice yesterday. And you know
Speaker 1: he's going to be at my I'm going to be
Speaker 1: inducted into this Hall of Fame on on Sunday, the
Speaker 1: National Boxing Hall of Fame. Jerry, of course he's coming, Jerry, Jerry.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you about Jerry West, my friendship going
Speaker 1: back fifty four years. I'll tell you. Of course I
Speaker 1: am to him. He went to my wife's second wife's,
Speaker 1: my wedding with her, and then he went to her
Speaker 1: funeral unfortunately she passed away, you know, very young. And
Speaker 1: then he also to my retirement party. He came to
Speaker 1: my book signing when I had my book. He has
Speaker 1: been the most loyal and loyal friend that I have.
Speaker 1: That's how loyal. If I asked Jerry to do something,
Speaker 1: he does it for me. He's always done it, and
Speaker 1: I'll do anything for him. This this guy is the
Speaker 1: nicest guy, and for them to do what they're doing,
Speaker 1: you know, portraying him as some sort of intemperate boso.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, they have him just among other things,
Speaker 1: they have him screaming and a pussing at Jerry Buss.
Speaker 1: He would never do that. That's not Jerry. Yes, he
Speaker 1: has his moves stuff like that, but I mean, Jerry
Speaker 1: what has been overlooked. He's had his big impact on
Speaker 1: the success of the Lakers that anyone in its history
Speaker 1: think of this. Then who do you think, uh during
Speaker 1: the showtime years, who supplied all the chemistry players? Just
Speaker 1: answer the question? Who you want to keep going about? Cooper,
Speaker 1: Jerry West, he he made sure James Worthy, I like
Speaker 1: an idiot, campaigned in the Herald, you gotta get dominic.
Speaker 1: Wil becons he's the most exciting player, and Jerry tried
Speaker 1: to explain he wouldn't hit in. Of course, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: have pit in. You know, he wouldn't be James Worthy.
Speaker 1: He took worthy instead of dominant. And then that uh
Speaker 1: Bus was on the threshold, as we all know, after
Speaker 1: they lost to Sampson and the Houston Rockets. I remember
Speaker 1: that I do that last that shot they were going
Speaker 1: to make the big trade for I think it was
Speaker 1: was an agent that Marcot Wire. I think it was
Speaker 1: Marcot Wire or market Market I think yet it was
Speaker 1: market markt Wire. And the trade was made. I wrote
Speaker 1: it in the Herold Examiner. It was a big story
Speaker 1: in the Herald Lakers. The trade worthy environed Stott, you know,
Speaker 1: the to the to the Mavericks for this and that
Speaker 1: and the only reason it was made. He went to
Speaker 1: Jerry Busts and I'm resigning, you can't make this trade.
Speaker 1: And of course he didn't make the trade. And they
Speaker 1: went on the win the They beat the Pistons in
Speaker 1: and the Detroit uh and the Celtics here whenever they
Speaker 1: said I was, I think the Celtics in the Pistons
Speaker 1: and then they lost to the Pistons and they came
Speaker 1: back and went, yeah, yeah, they lost the Pistons because
Speaker 1: pat Riley took the damn team over to Santa Barbara
Speaker 1: after they were twelve and oh in the playoffs Byron
Speaker 1: Scott tour Hamstring, don't you remember that? And the magic
Speaker 1: Johnson went out the second day. Yeah. Well, that was
Speaker 1: the best Laker team I ever saw. Was the eighty
Speaker 1: nine team that that team was really good, really good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so was Old, but it was better than the team
Speaker 1: to beat the Pistons the year before. But you know
Speaker 1: the thing about the thing about Kareem, which is, and
Speaker 1: I've never understood this sty the most dominating, the most
Speaker 1: unstoppable shot and I've ever seen in my life and
Speaker 1: any any athletic endeavor the sky hook, and no one
Speaker 1: other than Kareem has been able to really consistently pull
Speaker 1: that shot off. You think if you could take a
Speaker 1: young player and teach them that move when they're thirteen
Speaker 1: or fourteen, by the time they got to the NBA
Speaker 1: and the rest of the wy'd be unstoppable that no
Speaker 1: one could do. You know, Kareem, here's something that's gonna
Speaker 1: stunt you. What I said and I had, I did
Speaker 1: not have a good relation personal action ship with Kareem.
Speaker 1: I'm the one that in the Harrow Examber when Year
Speaker 1: said they should trade trade him. You know, after he
Speaker 1: got one rebound in the game, and that was all
Speaker 1: because it wouldn't working on his hook, wouldn't force to
Speaker 1: do that. But it was a soft you know, he
Speaker 1: didn't have that book shot. And then he developed it.
Speaker 1: He realized and he's the most underrated player in the
Speaker 1: history of basketball. A lot of people say he's the
Speaker 1: greatest player. He might be, and look what he did accomplish.
Speaker 1: Six World champion ships, three college championships at u c L.
Speaker 1: A great player, great competitor, this all said. You know,
Speaker 1: he was very He was kind of borish with the media.
Speaker 1: He wasn't you know, although he would always answer my
Speaker 1: questions when once he was on talk radio. He came
Speaker 1: down to the studios when I was at ESPN, and
Speaker 1: he actually we talked about it and he said, Val
Speaker 1: used to kissed me off all the time, and this
Speaker 1: and that. But he was you know, I'll say one thing.
Speaker 1: He always answered my questions and he was always civil
Speaker 1: with me, even though he hated he despised me a
Speaker 1: couple of he's become even more grumpy as he's gotten older.
Speaker 1: Here it's great player, though, you can't take that away.
Speaker 1: And he's he's the best center in NBA history history irrespectable.
Speaker 1: Will I love Will, But Kareem was a savage competitor.
Speaker 1: You know who could have been the best center if
Speaker 1: he stayed healthy. Bill Well, he was unbelievable. He had
Speaker 1: one of yeah, two healthy years and that was it.
Speaker 1: All right? So do the greatest the great player debate? Doug.
Speaker 1: You've covered the NBA fifty years, You've been around the NBA.
Speaker 1: I'm a Jordan guy something. Where you who's the greatest
Speaker 1: player that you've seen in your life in the NBA?
Speaker 1: The greatest player I've seen in my life? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: Jordan was very good. I mean, I mean obviously as
Speaker 1: the greatest ever. You know, I'll tell you who's really
Speaker 1: was good and we don't. I mean Kobe was pretty
Speaker 1: good too, sure, yea very very good, better offensively that Jordan.
Speaker 1: Not defensively, but offensively. How do you ever stopped Kobe?
Speaker 1: Couldn't stop him, No one could stop him. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess you have to get the Jordan Obo. There's a
Speaker 1: case to be made for Kareem. Kareem was a great player.
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you not for you he got
Speaker 1: six World championships. Yeah, you could say Jordan never lost,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think the Acres faced much sterner
Speaker 1: competition and they were also hurt by injuries. A lot
Speaker 1: of injuries happened with the Lakers, you know, key like
Speaker 1: losing to the Pistons that year in four straight please.
Speaker 1: Then how were they going to beat the Pistons without
Speaker 1: Byron Scott and Magic Johnson? You answer the question, that's
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna have. All that could have been another
Speaker 1: championship for the Magic, which would have given him six.
Speaker 1: You know, Jordan was very fortunate, but not I have
Speaker 1: to face great Celtic teams when they were good. He
Speaker 1: was very I'm serious he was. Those Celtic teams were great,
Speaker 1: you know that. Yeah, and the expansion area he was
Speaker 1: very ports I mean he faced that, you know, Portland Trailblazers,
Speaker 1: Seattle SuperSonics and Utah was good. But you know, Utah
Speaker 1: please the Lakers when king they never beat the ladies
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, I guess you would have to give
Speaker 1: up the Jordan. But I'll tell you there's it's close.
Speaker 1: It's very close. Yeah. Alright, So the all these years
Speaker 1: as a sportswriter, dog, biggest jerk athlete you ever covered,
Speaker 1: the guy that just was a pain in the behind,
Speaker 1: who would it be? Well, for a time we became
Speaker 1: friends later on that you know. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you know my history with a linebacker named Isaiah Robertson.
Speaker 1: He tried to beat me up at it was big
Speaker 1: headlines in the Times l A Times back then. In
Speaker 1: in an afternoon practice, he went after me, had a
Speaker 1: helmet his hand and he was tackled by Ray Malavas.
Speaker 1: And I can't remember the other guy that Larry Mark.
Speaker 1: What was the upset? What was the upset? What did
Speaker 1: you write about? What he was upset about? Rich Saul?
Speaker 1: That choked him out in the locker room. And I
Speaker 1: found out about it, and I made a terrible mistake.
Speaker 1: I told sportswriter from the l A Times named Ted
Speaker 1: Green up in the press box the previous RAM game,
Speaker 1: that about it. I told him about it, and then
Speaker 1: he called me. I had a cap in the l A. Times.
Speaker 1: I was. I always went to the Ram practice in
Speaker 1: those days. They practiced blair Field on Long Beach, you
Speaker 1: know the baseball field there there during the season. They
Speaker 1: practiced there during the week. And he says, I'm going
Speaker 1: to write it in Tomorrow's l A Times. You know
Speaker 1: other people know about this, Doug, and I think he
Speaker 1: d s and me. I mean, he just wanted to
Speaker 1: write it, so that forced me to right. I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to write it. I mean I I I Isaiah
Speaker 1: cussed me out every time I went out there, he
Speaker 1: called me an s ob this and I took people
Speaker 1: said why didn't you just well, I'll tell you that
Speaker 1: story in a second. So I went up to Isaiah
Speaker 1: and I says, is there any truth to the rumor
Speaker 1: that you were choked out by? You know? He went crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy and took off his helmet and came after me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Malabay, see a guy named Larry Marshall tackle to
Speaker 1: hit me over the head of that damn helmt he
Speaker 1: killed me and uh Ken Burney writer then working for
Speaker 1: the l A Daily News. Remember he recovered the Dodgers.
Speaker 1: Remember Kenny Gerney, I do I do he just retired.
Speaker 1: He's discovering. I think he's with the MLB right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think he just retired. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. And he said, you look faster than Carl
Speaker 1: lewis you. I've never seen a guy run that past
Speaker 1: and I did. I mean it was a general and
Speaker 1: I got the hell awaight, and Carol rosen Blue said
Speaker 1: get the hell out of here. And Rosenblue, of course
Speaker 1: the owner, and he was a friend of mine too.
Speaker 1: I had two people at the end of their lives
Speaker 1: not talk to me Wilt Chamberlain for ten years and
Speaker 1: Carol Rosen, who was very nice, very nice. In fact,
Speaker 1: my first year on the beat, he bought bought me
Speaker 1: some Gucci loafers, blue loafers, the big joke. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I saw, I love your loafers and nixt
Speaker 1: Island living. I have no today if you if I
Speaker 1: said that, oh my god, you're taking that. You know?
Speaker 1: He sent it to my apartment in uh in Belmont
Speaker 1: Shore was with my first wife. These beautiful loafers, I
Speaker 1: mean those days, they probably cost seventy eight bucks. My god,
Speaker 1: and that was a running choke of oh yeah, they
Speaker 1: were beautiful. I couldn't have pulled but that guy. And
Speaker 1: there's a follow up to that story. Okay, New Year's
Speaker 1: Eve the night uh it was right after or before
Speaker 1: I can't remember. They believed that it was before they
Speaker 1: got beat in the playoff game by the Cowboys. I
Speaker 1: think of seventy eight, I can't remember. I think they
Speaker 1: did by then. Malavasi was the coach. No, no, Chuck,
Speaker 1: Chuck might have still been the was he the coach?
Speaker 1: Was he probably still was the coach. Okay, Okay, so
Speaker 1: I'm in a place called Bobby mcvies here in Long
Speaker 1: Beach and I walked in and there's Isaiah New Year's
Speaker 1: He he chased me out, and they say that the bodyguards,
Speaker 1: they said they had to get him, like the guys
Speaker 1: that though. The security guys grabbed and I ran out
Speaker 1: to my car and got out of it. But we
Speaker 1: made up. Later he saw me at a reunion and
Speaker 1: we shook hands and he actually came into the ESDM
Speaker 1: studios with Joe. We laughed about it. You know that's
Speaker 1: years yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure sure. Unfortunately he died
Speaker 1: I think in a car accident. That's too bad. So
Speaker 1: before I get you out of here, Doug, I kept
Speaker 1: you a wife. But one of my other favorite Doug
Speaker 1: recorin stories when Tommy was sorta he he was the
Speaker 1: GM briefly of the Dodgers, and and this is hilarious.
Speaker 1: I still laugh when I think about this. So as
Speaker 1: I remember the story, Doug Tommy when he took over
Speaker 1: his I think it was the interim GM of the Dodgers.
Speaker 1: He had told the media, right, whatever you want, say
Speaker 1: whatever you want about me, I don't mind, I'm fine whatever.
Speaker 1: Two days later, I'm in the I'm in the press
Speaker 1: box at Dodger Stadium, in the press dining room there
Speaker 1: and Tommy comes. It was a Sunday. He comes storming
Speaker 1: into the press box. Where's Pricry and where's dog? And
Speaker 1: he was furious with you. I don't know what you wrote, Doug.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that was all, but he, Tommy
Speaker 1: was on a mission to find you because of something
Speaker 1: that you had written. Don't you even even remember? I
Speaker 1: think that was the Bill Russell story that I wrote
Speaker 1: that Russell said that it was Russell the manager. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Bill Russell was the manager. Yeah, yeah, that's that was it.
Speaker 1: He got piste off about that that I wrote that
Speaker 1: how could you write that? This? And that? Wouldn't talk
Speaker 1: to me for two years. I don't you remember when
Speaker 1: I used to go on that that Sports Writers show.
Speaker 1: Remember they used to have it, Yeah yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 1: Round the Round Table. And I looked at always they
Speaker 1: have me on a lot, and now look at Tommy,
Speaker 1: please talk to me. And finally, at the two thousand
Speaker 1: World Series between the invested Yankees, I saw Tommy and
Speaker 1: Rod Dado I think it was Tipty Third Street walking
Speaker 1: in New York, and I said, Rod, tap Tommy to
Speaker 1: talk to me. He said, what do you mean, because
Speaker 1: rod Dado loved me, you know, you'd always say this
Speaker 1: that take a lot of story. Short. We shook hands,
Speaker 1: but we didn't talk. You know, we didn't talk at all,
Speaker 1: you know, for for two years, two years, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was his biggest booster. My god, I wrote
Speaker 1: one one. Uh you know, funny. It was always kind
Speaker 1: of a funny call up with Tommy. Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: It was wild. But anyway, we'll talk to listen. I
Speaker 1: love you to death. Dog. You You're a great guy,
Speaker 1: and thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. And
Speaker 1: you have nothing, you have nothing to wrote you you
Speaker 1: are going to Boxing Hall of Fame. But you said, right,
Speaker 1: what did it tell me? More? Yeah? This this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this satur National Boxing Hall of Fame. I'm the recipient
Speaker 1: of Howie Steinler Award. I always was a farmer, owner
Speaker 1: of the Main Street Jam. He was murdered in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventies seven by a couple of guys that they don't know.
Speaker 1: They never found him, and his daughter picked me to
Speaker 1: be the recipient. And because I'm a recipient of that award,
Speaker 1: I'm automatically inducted to the Hall of Famous. My fourth
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame I've been in. This is what happens
Speaker 1: when you be seventy eight years old, started getting in,
Speaker 1: you get start getting in. What give me the list
Speaker 1: of all? You said? Boxing Hall of Fame? What other
Speaker 1: hall of fames is dr it's just small ones. Armenian
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, half Armenian at the Giant. I'm in
Speaker 1: the California State Hall of Fame, National Boxing Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame and the San Pedro Hall of Fame. The athletic
Speaker 1: call it the San Pedro one they have. Actually, it's
Speaker 1: like a Hollywood star out there. My name's out there.
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool, that's nice. That's for those would be
Speaker 1: my fourth one and uh, Jerry West will be at
Speaker 1: our table. What about the nice? What about the PHIL
Speaker 1: Trainees Hall of Fame? Do they have a PHIL Trainees
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame? You gotta should training trade Bil training. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a gym in Long Beach. I want the Boys
Speaker 1: and Girls Club gym. There's a PHIL training gym. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well for those who don't know, for those the fellows
Speaker 1: who know, the PHIL training is famous locational Long Beach.
Speaker 1: I've only been there a couple of times. But Doug
Speaker 1: and Joe. You guys all, I mean you ran the place. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna tell you, Ben, don't don't make me
Speaker 1: endure years of cultural depervation by not having me on
Speaker 1: your great show. Oh no, I love yes, I love you.
Speaker 1: You haven't called me and it's very hurtful. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're my friend. I patterned my career. Now. I promised
Speaker 1: that we'll we'll have you on again, and I do
Speaker 1: thinking have a a great rest of your Daniel. I
Speaker 1: congratulations on the Boxing Hall of Fame. That is I
Speaker 1: did not know that. That is awesome and and thank you.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you and thank you dog. I love you, Ben,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you all.