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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work.

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Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of

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Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the

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Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. Become a Breaking

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Speaker 1: Points Premium Member today, where you get to watch and

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Speaker 1: listen to the entire show ad free and uncut, an

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Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our

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Speaker 1: reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate and

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now,

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Speaker 1: So what are you waiting for? Go to Breakingpoints dot

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Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today

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Speaker 1: when we have Bristol. Indeed, we do lots of interesting

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Speaker 1: stories to get to you today. Twitter has some new

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Speaker 1: rules that are questionable at best. I would dare say

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Speaker 1: that they are anti science. So we'll tell you about those.

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Speaker 1: The Biden administration categorically ruling out doing anything about student debt.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we already covered how they're going to restart

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Speaker 1: student loan debt payments at a time when Americans do

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Speaker 1: not feel good about their finances and how they are

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Speaker 1: doing now and projecting into the future. So we'll tell

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Speaker 1: you about that. Also, this is actually a good news

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Speaker 1: something exciting the way that gen Z is organizing on

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Speaker 1: TikTok getting involved in the labor movement in particular, exciting

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Speaker 1: new direction. There some stunning news about corruption in DC

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Speaker 1: News media, Beltway media. I know you're going to be

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Speaker 1: shocked to learn about that. We also and actually we

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Speaker 1: should have programming note about this. So we have two

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Speaker 1: guests on to debate what the US should do about Taiwan.

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Speaker 1: But we've had some technical issues this morning, which by

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Speaker 1: the way, might show up during the show. We've been

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Speaker 1: having some problems with the camera. Right now, everything is working,

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Speaker 1: but it's caused us to start late. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to do those guest segments. We're going to post them later.

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Speaker 1: So for those of you. Yeah, to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you guys get it on time, especially our premium subscribers.

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Speaker 1: A couple other programming notes. First of all, how do

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Speaker 1: you like our new Holland season decor. It's actually Sager's

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Speaker 1: idea to pull this out, but I love how it looks.

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Speaker 1: And thanks to our graphics, guys are putting together a

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Speaker 1: new little holiday flair breaking VINS graphic for us. One

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Speaker 1: other programming note is tonight, I alongside Kyle Kolinski, Marian Williamson,

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Speaker 1: and Katie Helper are going to be hosting a live

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Speaker 1: stream for julian A. San Sager is going to join

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Speaker 1: us as a guest. We have an incredible, truly astonishing

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Speaker 1: lineup of people who are involved here. And this is

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Speaker 1: not everybody, but we've got Assange's brother Gabriel, who's of

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Speaker 1: course we've interviewed on this show as well. We've got

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Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, We've got Ryan Graham, We've got Stephen Donziger

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Speaker 1: who is now home, still not free, but at least

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Speaker 1: he's home. Rokanna is going to join us, Abby Martin's

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Speaker 1: going to join us. Some of the reporters who have

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Speaker 1: been covering it on the ground in the UK are

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Speaker 1: going to join us, Susan Sarandon, Daniel Ellsberg, Chomsky, cornell Os.

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Speaker 1: So that's all going to kick off tonight at seven

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Speaker 1: point thirty. We're going to stream it on our channel,

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Speaker 1: Katie streaming in on her channel, Kyle streaming it on

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Speaker 1: his channel as well. But listen, guys, this is one

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Speaker 1: that is so important. Of course we've been covering here.

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Speaker 1: The way that the prosecution of massage started under Trump

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Speaker 1: continued under Biden poses a grave threat to the First

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Speaker 1: Amendment and especially to criminalizing journalists. This is why the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration decided they wanted to prosecute usage, but they

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Speaker 1: decided they couldn't do it without also criminalizing The New

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Speaker 1: York Times and every other publisher that releases classified information,

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Speaker 1: which is something that journalists do all the time and

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Speaker 1: that publishers do all the time. So this is a really,

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Speaker 1: really important one. We want to put on as much

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Speaker 1: pressure as we can. So if you guys can join

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Speaker 1: us here tonight seven thirty, we would really love that.

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Speaker 1: That's right, I'll be joining. It'll be really I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to make the same point that I have here,

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Speaker 1: which is that doesn't care how you feel about a person.

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Speaker 1: It matters about case law, the princident, about the president

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Speaker 1: and the principle. And this is one where it's just

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Speaker 1: clear as day as to what the exact example that

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Speaker 1: would be set in in terms of US law against journalists,

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Speaker 1: even our potential ability in order to expose things of

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Speaker 1: people in power, and that's what matters the most in

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Speaker 1: our profession. Everybody should be speaking up for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're not, And that's really disgusting, especially the number

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Speaker 1: of journalists who were very upset about attacks on the

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Speaker 1: First Amendment during the Trump administration. They were concerned though

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Speaker 1: about like mean comments or tweets about Jim Acosta. But

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Speaker 1: this thing that Trump did, which was the worst thing

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Speaker 1: he did in terms of attacking the press, there were

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Speaker 1: very few who had anything to say about it. Then,

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Speaker 1: Julian is coming very close to extradition now with the

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Speaker 1: UK High Court ruling that he can in fact be

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Speaker 1: extradited to the US. Now is the time to raise hell.

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Speaker 1: So that is our goal for this evening. There you go,

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Speaker 1: all right, So first story up this morning, so really

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Speaker 1: disgusting and stunning comments. I should stop saying that because honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's not that surprising part par for the course. We

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Speaker 1: should maintain our shock and disgust at these things even

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Speaker 1: though they are part of the course. Nancy Pelosi got

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Speaker 1: asked about whether members of Congress and their spouses should

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Speaker 1: be banned from profiting off their positions in public service

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Speaker 1: by trading stocks. Let's take a listen to that exchange.

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Speaker 1: Mata speaker Insider just completed a five months investigations. By

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Speaker 1: that's fully nine members of Congress and one hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty two to secure congressional staffers as violate as the

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Speaker 1: stockcast the inside dream law. I'm wanting to get any

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Speaker 1: reactions to that. And secondly, you should members of Congress

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Speaker 1: that their spouses be banned from trading into the wild stocks?

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Speaker 1: WI urrying longer now. I don't know to the second

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Speaker 1: mine any We have a responsibility to report in the

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Speaker 1: stock on the stock, but I don't. I'm not familiar

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Speaker 1: with that five month review. But if the people aren't reporting,

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Speaker 1: they should be because is this is a free market

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Speaker 1: in people, we have free market economy that should be

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Speaker 1: able to participate in that. The free market, yes economy,

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Speaker 1: and should be able to participate in it. It's so

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Speaker 1: disgusting this attitude. You are supposed to be public servants.

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Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be cashing in for profit off

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Speaker 1: of the vast amounts of inside information. You have. The

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Speaker 1: reporter there, and I wish I knew who it was.

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Speaker 1: I would give them a lot of credit for asking

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Speaker 1: this question. They're referencing this Insider investigation into just the

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Speaker 1: amount of corruption and how widespread and by partisan it

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Speaker 1: is in Congress. We can throw that tear sheet up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. We covered this early this week, and

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Speaker 1: you can see why this type of reporting matters so much,

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Speaker 1: because since a mainstream outlet actually took the time and

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Speaker 1: went to the trouble of doing this analysis, it results

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Speaker 1: in this kind of a question and this kind of

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Speaker 1: a very very revealing statement from Nancy Pelosi. And of

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Speaker 1: course what Insider tracks, your sager, is the fact that

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Speaker 1: they expose people who sit on defense committees who are

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Speaker 1: trading defense stocks. They expose people who claim to be

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Speaker 1: you know, environmentalists and anti climate change who are investing

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Speaker 1: in fossil fuel. They exposed people who were profiting off

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Speaker 1: of the pandemic. All of these things where because they're

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Speaker 1: in this position of trust that the public put them

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Speaker 1: into they have access to information that they're then turning

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Speaker 1: around and profiting off of, or that could be in

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Speaker 1: a position to impact the types of decisions that they're making.

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Speaker 1: That's the real problem is then you don't know are

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Speaker 1: they acting in your best interests? Are they acting the

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Speaker 1: best interests of their stockportfolio. Even the most libertarian of

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Speaker 1: libertarian free marketeers will tell you that crony capitalism and

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Speaker 1: government capture, regulatory capture is the greatest threat to the

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Speaker 1: free market. And so if you do believe in a

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Speaker 1: free market I believe also very much one, then there

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Speaker 1: actually has to be a level playing field and your

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Speaker 1: ability in order to trade stocks. And one of the

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Speaker 1: recognitions that we should have there is that you cannot

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Speaker 1: have a level playing field whenever you're having such a

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Speaker 1: dramatic amount of influence over the stock market yourself, whenever

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Speaker 1: you are a speaker of the house literally. I think

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Speaker 1: what's especially gross is the defense of her husband, who

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Speaker 1: has routinely been caught trading on a look trading, making

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Speaker 1: big time trades hours before votes. Multimillion dollars To be

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent clear, this woman is worth one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars Now, look, if that's not enough

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Speaker 1: for you, that's fine, but then don't serve in the

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Speaker 1: United States Congress. Nobody's forcing you to serve here. You

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Speaker 1: are welcome, Madam Speaker, to retire, and you and your

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Speaker 1: husband can day trade in your mansions and eat Jenny's

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Speaker 1: ice cream all day long. My guests, sounds pretty nice.

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Speaker 1: She's like eighty years old, she's got a bunch of grandkids.

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Speaker 1: Go for it. But if you're going to have the

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Speaker 1: public trust within you, especially in your position like this,

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Speaker 1: to say that you have to be able to have

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Speaker 1: your cake and eat it too, that's the most disgusting part.

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Speaker 1: And you know, here's my one great hope there is

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Speaker 1: at least a somewhat bipartisan thing about this. People who

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Speaker 1: hate Nancy Pelosi so much, many Republicans have actually gotten

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Speaker 1: themselves now in the position being like, okay, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess we have to ban it, which I would support.

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Speaker 1: Are there any Republican members so current? One? The one

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Speaker 1: that I saw who said it, his name was Blake Masters.

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Speaker 1: He's running for Senate in Arizona as Republican, kind of

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Speaker 1: an interesting New right ish type figure. We're gonna see

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Speaker 1: if he wins. The primary. Trump had a fund raiser form,

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Speaker 1: so I do expect him to win. You know, if

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Speaker 1: he beats Mark Kelly or not, we'll see. But he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the very first things he would

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Speaker 1: do when he comes into Congress is actually endorses to

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Speaker 1: legislation introduce it. And also we know that AOC already

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Speaker 1: said this in House of Representatives. That could be a

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Speaker 1: good right left. I mean, it's almost it really is

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Speaker 1: kind of a perfect limits test because it's like, what

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Speaker 1: are you actually about, What do you actually want this

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Speaker 1: position for? Is this for your personal elevation, profit ambition,

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Speaker 1: career positioning, et cetera, or you actually want to do

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Speaker 1: some good things? And listen, we can agree, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can debate all day long what those good things

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Speaker 1: might look like and have different ideas, but if the

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Speaker 1: foundation of just like having people there with good intentions

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Speaker 1: who aren't just self interested in trying to cash in,

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Speaker 1: like that's the baseline that you have to have in place,

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Speaker 1: and then we can go from there. So yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's what's sad is of course, while you have a

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Speaker 1: few loan voices out there, you know a few members

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Speaker 1: of the squad, maybe one person who might get through

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Speaker 1: a Republican primary, all right, you know. I mean the

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Speaker 1: sad thing is that it's far from close to anywhere

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Speaker 1: like a majority, and obviously the person who has one

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Speaker 1: of the most powerful people in all of Washington has

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Speaker 1: totally dismissed it and utterly discarded it, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: out of hand, contemptuously too, like it was a ridiculous question.

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Speaker 1: Going along with this is the fact, you know, one

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Speaker 1: way that our elites cash in and achieved more power,

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Speaker 1: more money, and all of those things for themselves is

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Speaker 1: through you know, the stock trading that they're doing in

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Speaker 1: the House and in the Senate and their staffers as well,

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Speaker 1: and other government officials and positions of power. That's one way.

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Speaker 1: Another way, though, was just exposed by Pro Publica. They

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Speaker 1: had a great write up that wasn't even so much

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Speaker 1: an article on you know, new information, although there was

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Speaker 1: some new data there that's worth getting into. But they

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Speaker 1: track over more than a century, how these American dynasties

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Speaker 1: of you know, royalty level wealth are created and then

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Speaker 1: sustain generation after generation, even after you know, the fail

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Speaker 1: sons and the failed daughters. It's absolutely nothing and the

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Speaker 1: intersection of that dynastic intergenerational wealth with the rigging of

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Speaker 1: our public policy. Let's go ahead and throw this tear

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Speaker 1: sheet up on the screen, because this was really important.

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Speaker 1: If you guys have time, it's a it's a relatively

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Speaker 1: lengthy read, but it's pretty fascinating, especially if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in history. The great Inheritors how three families shielded their

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Speaker 1: fortunes from taxes for generations. So they track several of

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Speaker 1: these families, including the Melons and the Mars and I

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Speaker 1: can't remember what the other one is, and how they

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Speaker 1: used tax avoidance schemes from the very beginning. Oh, the

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Speaker 1: scripts that that was one, which is an interesting one

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Speaker 1: because the magnate there, he's founded newspapers that were meant

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Speaker 1: for the working class, and you'd have these sort of

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Speaker 1: like working class instincts sometimes like pro working class and

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Speaker 1: anti rich instincts, but when it came down to it,

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Speaker 1: his personal fortune and avoiding taxes was the number one priority.

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Speaker 1: And so since they were able to achieve that, then

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Speaker 1: they were able to pass this generational wealth down and

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Speaker 1: down and down. And so the idea that, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: three generations later, it's all going to be gone. No,

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Speaker 1: that's not actually what happens. In fact, you have huge

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Speaker 1: numbers of the individuals who are, you know, the wealthiest

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Speaker 1: in the nation. It's like a third of all the

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Speaker 1: wealthiest people in the country. They didn't build it. They

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Speaker 1: didn't they just inherited. They didn't do anything whatsoever to

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Speaker 1: deserve it. The fortunes of Andrew Mellin his peers approved

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Speaker 1: so durable they say over the past century that today

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Speaker 1: one third of the top fifty wealthiest Americans on the

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Speaker 1: Forbes list are heirs. Sager. I think that piece of

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Speaker 1: information is actually very dangerous in a way to the

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Speaker 1: status quo, because we have all this mythology about like

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Speaker 1: how you know, the people who are the elites and

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Speaker 1: who are the wealthiest, like they're just a different class,

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Speaker 1: they're different breed. They just they earned it through their

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Speaker 1: hard work and they're brilliant visions and their innovations. We've

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Speaker 1: talked to here a lot about how a lot of

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Speaker 1: those people are just financial engineers playing with money, and

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Speaker 1: then a third of them they didn't do a damn thing.

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Speaker 1: They just got lucky by birth, and you know, we're

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Speaker 1: born rich. I've tried to explain this so many times

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Speaker 1: about why focusing on Bezos and Musk is actually the

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Speaker 1: worst way in order to focus on billionaires. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: look to their credit, they both built two incredible world

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Speaker 1: changing companies. Now, the rest of the people on the

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Speaker 1: Forbes list, the guys who are worth the one point two's,

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Speaker 1: the one point threes, the new billionaires, they're just headphones guys.

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Speaker 1: They're doing nothing. They're adding zero to the US economy.

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Speaker 1: And then a lot of them one third are the

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Speaker 1: Walton fam Jim Walton, who's apparently what was it, he's

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Speaker 1: like buying all private water rights, Yeah, the wall state

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Speaker 1: of Montange. That's right. The Waltons are like determining the

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Speaker 1: state of the private water market. Or at the Gail Disney,

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Speaker 1: who's always on Twitter, you know concept Look, apparently she's

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Speaker 1: actually quite you know, pro you know, wealth confiscation or whatever,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting. But regardless, it's more when

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Speaker 1: we look at the way that intergenerational wealth spills down,

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Speaker 1: nobody is saying he should not be able to allow

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Speaker 1: and pass stuff on to your children. But what this

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Speaker 1: piece shows you, and why we pair it up together,

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Speaker 1: is you have there the speaker of the house worth

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Speaker 1: herself in the or in the range of dynastic wealth

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million. That's more than you can

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Speaker 1: spend in several lifetimes. It's being passed down to all

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Speaker 1: of her children. And also to juxtapose her wealth and

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Speaker 1: her defense of her and her husband's trading in the

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Speaker 1: mansions in which she lives, in which the squalor of

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Speaker 1: many of the people of San Francisco are in right now.

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Speaker 1: And some of the things that you guys will read

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Speaker 1: in this piece, which are just eye popping is Mortimer Sackler.

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Speaker 1: I love that that Mortimer. Mortimer is his first name.

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Speaker 1: Heir to the Sackler dynasty. He took in a two

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars by age twenty two. Snortstrom, the grandson

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Speaker 1: of the founder, he collected one hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 1: million in twenty nineteen. William Wrigley, the great grandson of

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Speaker 1: the chewing gum pioneer, raked in five hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: million dollars in trust income throughout that year. That are

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Speaker 1: once again all heirs sitting on fortunes which are vast

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Speaker 1: and doing what exactly. And here's the thing. Nobody's saying,

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Speaker 1: you have to take all of it, even some or

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Speaker 1: all of it, you know, the majority of it. But

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Speaker 1: the whole point of the piece is that they pay

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Speaker 1: almost nothing in taxes. That they have created a system

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Speaker 1: of Nancy Pelosi and many of these other people which

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Speaker 1: have architected where they can shield the vast, vast majority,

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Speaker 1: where they pay an effective tax rate far lower than

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Speaker 1: any of you. If you're a working stiff out there,

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Speaker 1: you're paying higher taxes than them. And that's what's wrong.

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Speaker 1: And this is of course part of how the racial

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Speaker 1: wealth gap becomes so persistent over time because of course,

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Speaker 1: at the time when these fortunes were made, you know,

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Speaker 1: black people were rampantly overtly discriminated against, both by the

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Speaker 1: public and also in law. So the fact that these

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Speaker 1: fortunes persist basically forever means that you are, you know,

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Speaker 1: locking out people from achieving that American dream. I mean,

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Speaker 1: some of the numbers here, they say, the scripts Melan

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Speaker 1: and Mars families, just those three families, their combined well

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Speaker 1: today is pegged at one hundred and fourteen billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: These are fortunes that were made a century ago, and

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Speaker 1: still this is the way that it persists. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, you said that no one is advocating that

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Speaker 1: you take all of it. Actually I am advocating, well,

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Speaker 1: it's very very high position. It's state tax. Because here's

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Speaker 1: the problem is that wealth persists, and wealth grows at

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Speaker 1: a much more rapid pace than income does. So if

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Speaker 1: you're working stiff, if you're earning wages, you are never

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Speaker 1: gonna have the chance to catch up because they're always

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Speaker 1: This is how vast inequality just becomes generated and persists

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Speaker 1: and accelerates generation after generation. And by the way, some

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Speaker 1: of these people actually scripts himself, he saw the way

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Speaker 1: his own kids were like spoiled, lazy, entitled, and he

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Speaker 1: initially in his life was in support of a large

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Speaker 1: estate tax because he thought, this isn't good for society,

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Speaker 1: it's not even good for these kids and the grandkids

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Speaker 1: who never have to do anything in their life whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: But in the end, when it came time to pass

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Speaker 1: his vast fortune onto his own children, he was also

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Speaker 1: a rampant misogynist. I think he only really gave to

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Speaker 1: his son or his sons, or gave like half as

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Speaker 1: much to his daughter and his wife or whatever. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: when it came time for him to pass it forward,

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Speaker 1: he decided that he would avail himself of every trick

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Speaker 1: in the book in order to ensure that his wealth sustains.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, to take it back to the

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Speaker 1: beginning with Pelosi and the Democrats, some measures to try

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Speaker 1: to capture some of these vast fortunes in order to

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Speaker 1: fund the public good. There was some thought that that

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Speaker 1: was going to have it the Biden administration, not the

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Speaker 1: most radical things, not the things that I might be

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Speaker 1: in favor of, but some moderate steps to try to

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Speaker 1: actually tax these vast fortunes which today go completely untaxed essentially,

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Speaker 1: And that was Those were some of the provisions that

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Speaker 1: got killed the quickest, not because they're politically unpopular. On

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Speaker 1: the contrary, they are wildly politically popular, and the whole

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Speaker 1: thing was more popular when it included those provisions, but

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Speaker 1: because you had a huge lobbying effort undergone in part

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Speaker 1: by some of the errors of this dynastic wealth, funded

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Speaker 1: by those same very people, to make sure that those

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Speaker 1: provisions ultimately got stripped out. And then when you have

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Speaker 1: a Congress that sees themself as part of that class,

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Speaker 1: and is in fact oftentimes part of that class, you

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Speaker 1: end up with the situation that we fight ourselves in today.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely true. Okay, let's move on to Twitter. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot about the content moderation policies

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Speaker 1: over at Twitter and why they matter, and they'll put

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Speaker 1: that at the very top, which is that Twitter is

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Speaker 1: where the elites have discussions. That matters a lot because

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Speaker 1: those discussions filter down through different cable news mediums, radio,

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere to you. So even though you may not

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Speaker 1: be on Twitter, you are very influenced by Twitter. Politicians

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Speaker 1: are always there, the doctors even are always there, the

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Speaker 1: public health people, everybody's debating and talking. It's a medium

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Speaker 1: of discussion. So when that medium has policies which hurt journalism,

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Speaker 1: it has a disproportionate impact on the entire field. When

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Speaker 1: that medium has a disproportionate impact and its censorship policy,

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Speaker 1: it will affect what you see and what you don't

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Speaker 1: in many other cases. So let's put that at the top.

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Speaker 1: And that's why this new censorship policy matters a lot.

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Speaker 1: Let's put it up there on the screen. Please. Twitter

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Speaker 1: is going to penalize users who claim that vaccinated people

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Speaker 1: can spread COVID nineteen. So I'm going to read directly

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Speaker 1: from the new section on their website. Quote. When tweets

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Speaker 1: include misleading information about COVID nineteen, we may place a

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Speaker 1: label on those tweets that includes corrective information about that claim.

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Speaker 1: We may apply labels to tweets that contain, for example, false, false,

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Speaker 1: or misleading claims that people who have received the vaccine

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Speaker 1: can spread or shed the virus to unvaccinated people. Users

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Speaker 1: can receive penalties up to and including a permanent ban.

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Speaker 1: So that change was made on December second, twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: This matters a lot because it actually directly contradicts the

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Speaker 1: CDC's previous announcement and guidance prior to the month or

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Speaker 1: to the day of December second. That's our second thing.

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Speaker 1: Put that up there on the screen, please where you

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Speaker 1: can see here directly. CDC Director Rochelle Wolenski. Now this

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Speaker 1: statement July thirtieth, twenty twenty one, quote high viral loads

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Speaker 1: suggest an increase risk of transmission and raise concern that,

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Speaker 1: unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with DELTA can

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Speaker 1: transmit the virus. Now, I'm not saying that vaccinated people

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Speaker 1: are the only people who can transmit the virus. I'm

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Speaker 1: not making claims like that whatsoever. But we also Crystal

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Speaker 1: have some new data out this morning that because of

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Speaker 1: the way that populations are dramatically more vaccinated than not now,

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Speaker 1: we do see quite a bit of omicron spread amongst

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Speaker 1: the vaccinated. I'm doing my monologue today. One of the

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Speaker 1: things I'm mentioning is a Cornell University, a place where

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Speaker 1: they have a hard vaccine mandate for all employees and students,

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Speaker 1: has seen some six hundred cases of omicron breakout. That

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Speaker 1: is actually nothing that much to worry about. If you're vaccinated,

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Speaker 1: your chance of hospitalization and death is dramatically reduced. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you will get a cold essentially, or a mild case

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Speaker 1: of the flu. That's basically what happened to me after

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Speaker 1: I got COVID and I was backaccinated. But the irresponsibility

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Speaker 1: of this moderation policy is that is directly contradictory not

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Speaker 1: only you know, of general scientific consensus, but even from

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Speaker 1: the most you know out there people at the CDC. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they see no problem with that. It's outrageous. The

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Speaker 1: whole case for people getting boosters right now is because

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Speaker 1: because now you know, there's a big concerted effort from

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Speaker 1: the federal government for people not just the elderly, but

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Speaker 1: all adults to go out and get their third shot.

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Speaker 1: Is because not that if you're vaccinated you should be

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Speaker 1: worried about severe hospitalization and death, but because you want

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Speaker 1: to have a booster so you can further limit the spread.

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Speaker 1: That indicates that if you are vaccinated, you can still

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Speaker 1: spread COVID. Now, listen, what a lot of anti vaxxers

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Speaker 1: do is they will conflate the fact that you can

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Speaker 1: spread COVID if you're vaccinated with the idea that you

429
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: are just as likely to spread COVID if you're vaccinated

430
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: as not that claim is false and if that claim,

431
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: you know, that could be vacchecked or whatever. But to

432
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: go directly against the science. Here what the CDC says,

433
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: which is that especially with omicron, I just read a

434
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: New York Times article this morning about how it is

435
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: likely there will be more breakthrough infections with omicron among

436
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: the vaccinated, and that that will if you have vulnerable

437
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: people around you, that that's something you should be concerned

438
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: about because you can in fact spread it. Again, if

439
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: you're vaccinated, and especially if you have your booster, you

440
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: are less likely to spread COVID. But yeah, you can

441
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: still spread it, and so what their official policy is

442
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: directly anti science. I mean, there's just no other way

443
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: to possibly read it. And the reason that this is

444
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: also important is because something that we've been pointing to

445
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: and many others as well, is that you know, the

446
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: people at Twitter, they're not scientists, they're not public health officials,

447
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: the people at Facebook, the people on YouTube, you know,

448
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: they're not public health officials or scientists or experts. And

449
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: you're putting this tremendous power into their hands to deem

450
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: what's true and what's false on coronavirus and you know,

451
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: every other medical issue, when you know, sometimes the science

452
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: is unclear, it's complicated, there's oftentimes debates among scientists about

453
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: what the right courses and what we're seeing in the data,

454
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: and there are different studies that can be contradictory. So

455
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: the idea that they're going to be able to sort

456
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: that out effectively, obviously this type of guidance very clearly

457
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: demonstrates that they are not in a good position to

458
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: be able to be effective effective moderators of what the

459
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: truth is in science. Oh absolutely. And even you know,

460
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what that less likely figure is

461
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: on vaccination is pretty hard. I was just trying to

462
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: find I know there's a Lancet study which looked into this.

463
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: There's not really a hard number in terms of what

464
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: that is. It also changes depending on alpha variant, delta variants,

465
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: and omicron variant around the exact you know how likely

466
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: you are to spread it even if you are vaccinated.

467
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: And once again, I mean, look, the core case to

468
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: me is hospitalization and death, especially in the elderly and

469
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: in the obese. If you have any sort of come morbidity,

470
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: or if you're elderly, then a case of COVID can

471
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: be a real problem for you. I mean, at very

472
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: least it can severely hurt your immune system. And I

473
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: can tell you of a personal experience. My ninety year

474
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: old grandmother got COVID and was in the hospital in India.

475
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: She survived thanks to the vaccine, or at least what

476
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: I suspect to be the vaccine. Yeah, it's pretty amazing

477
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: if you're in your nineties. Previously that was probably a

478
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: death sentence. But that doesn't mean that, you know, she

479
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: hasn't had some reduced impact on her immune system. So

480
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: I just think that it's important for people to keep

481
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: that in mind. And especially to look at that, especially

482
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: when we're talking booster policy. But beyond that, the point

483
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: is is that it's a rapidly changing situation. Putting in

484
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: moderation standards like this and exposing people to permanent bands

485
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: for claims which are outright true just goes to show

486
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: that these people are not interested in science. They are

487
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: not interested even necessarily in robust debate. They are willing

488
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: to air on the side of what they think is

489
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: the morally just position. And maybe you can think that,

490
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: but it does not matter. What matters is that we

491
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: actually have the ability to talk honestly. Something that we'll

492
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: be covering in a future show, but which I just

493
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: literally saw this morning, Crystal, is that the White House

494
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: has been holding quote information sessions with Twitter influencers who

495
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: are doctors, so they are literally the Surgeon General of

496
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 1: the United States is trying to get influential doctors on

497
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: Twitter to kind of parrot the party line of the

498
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: White House. And I'm looking at this, I'm like, this

499
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: is crazy. I mean, we have the White House, which

500
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: has been wrong in many cases around science. Joe Biden,

501
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: our President of the United States, who's a boosted man,

502
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: still requires masks indoors in his building. Look maybe, okay,

503
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: maybe that's fine as old as hell, but you know,

504
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a very uh, that's not a very

505
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: inspiring thing to watch and say, like, hey, how come

506
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: the White House has a mask mandate when the district

507
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: of Columbia, the city that we live in, doesn't even

508
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: have one. Uh, they don't have an answer to that question.

509
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: They're just paranoid. So they go far beyond what the

510
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: science calls for. All the time. That's the right, they

511
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: can do what they wish. But the problem is is

512
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: that then they're the people setting national policy, they're also

513
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: the ones who are influencing this type of discussion, discussion,

514
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: our discourse, all of that. And that is what really,

515
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, sets me a flame when that's sort of

516
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: standard like operating procedure for white houses though there, I

517
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: mean Obama did and Trump did this sort of stuff too,

518
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: bringing in conservative influencers, and I would pose it that

519
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: conservative influencers have far less influence than the Twitter doctors. Oh,

520
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: I totally disagree. I don't know, I totally disagree with that.

521
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there is a very effective right wing pipeline

522
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: that does not exist, certainly true certainly on the left.

523
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: Liberals obviously have a lot of cultural power and institutions

524
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: and social cultural issues. I would say yes on COVID

525
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: and how it's going to impact like blue Pole. I mean, look,

526
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: I can tell you that I know for a fact

527
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: that these you know, the DC mayor and the local

528
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: COVID officials in Santa Barbara or wherever, California, they are

529
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: heavily impacted by what these blue checks on Twitter are saying.

530
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: And some of these people are freaking crazy. I mean

531
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: we're talking about I see folks out there who are

532
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: like mask forever. Yeah, I don't think because it's so

533
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: like tribal that you have. Yeah, you have one group

534
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: that's very influenced by that, and you have another group

535
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: that's very influenced by you know what Ben Shapiro or whoever.

536
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: Is Absolutely, I'm speaking only in public health context, not

537
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: in Yeah, it is standard operating procedure. Absolutely. I just

538
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: think these people have a very outsize impact on how

539
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: it could come and affect all of our lives, which

540
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: is bothersome. And it seems to see that how much

541
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: influence they have and direction from the top can also

542
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: be an issue. But I mean the major point to

543
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: me is it's very clearly this policy is far beyond

544
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: what science is. Who knows how this segment will do.

545
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I'm very curious how YouTube treats it. Indeed, indeed,

546
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: all right, so let's track a little Biden campaign promise

547
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: that they now are just pretending he never made, which is,

548
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: when he was running for president, Bernie wanted to cancel

549
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: all student debt, and Biden took a much more conservative position,

550
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: which is he wanted to cancel the first ten thousand

551
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: dollars of debt. So some enterprising reporter decided to ask

552
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: our great Press Secretary Jen Zaki, what the hell happened

553
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: to that promise. Here's how that went. I think he

554
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: said last week that you were working on a plan

555
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: to help students pay. But what about President Biden's campaign

556
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: to forgive or cancel ten thousand dollars and student let debt?

557
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: Pardon me? You know, what is the message to those

558
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: people who feel that it's yet to follow through on

559
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: that Congress sends him a bill, He's happy to sign it.

560
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: They haven't sent him a bill on that yet, go ahead,

561
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: so just totally dismisses it. There like oh, well, he

562
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: has got a bill, so he's not going to do it. Well,

563
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: you have the power to cancel debt. Trump used this power.

564
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: Obama also used this power, not to have a blanket cancelation.

565
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: But the power is there to cancel as much of

566
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: student debt as you decide you want to do. This

567
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: is not even like some of the things I push for,

568
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: like I think, based on the analysis of David Dane

569
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: and others, that you could expand Medicare to everyone, that

570
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: one would be challenged in the court. That's a dice

571
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: to your proposition. This one. The precedent is really pretty

572
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: clear that they have the power to cancel however much

573
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: of the debt as they ultimately want. And so this

574
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: is where you see just how much bs this is.

575
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: They pretend like they can do nothing, and this is

576
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: something Democrats are so great at. They pretend, oh, the

577
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: Republicans and the parliamentarian and the filibuster, and gosh, we

578
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: would if we could, but we didn't get a bill,

579
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: so we just can't do it. This is one hundred

580
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: percent in your control. You just decided you don't want to.

581
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: And you know who used to know this, President Joe

582
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: Biden was put that tweet up there on the screen.

583
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: This is while he was president of the United States. Additionally,

584
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: we should forgive a minimum of ten thousand dollars per

585
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: person of federal student loans, as proposed by Senator Warren

586
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: and her colleagues. Young people and other student deadholders bore

587
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: the brunt of the last crisis should't happen again. Apologies,

588
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: that was actually March of twenty twenty. But regardless, this

589
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: is a position that was already endorsed by the President

590
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: of the United States during the course of the presidential campaign.

591
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: Asked about it there at the podium, She's like, yeah,

592
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: you can send us a bill and sign it. Look,

593
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just very clear these people they have

594
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: no interest in trying to think big whatsoever, in trying

595
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: to you know. Matt Stoler had a comment in his

596
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: section of his Premium sub stack, which he publicized I

597
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: thought was so spot on, and it was like, Biden

598
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: can't decide what he is. Sometimes he wants to be

599
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: the defender of the status quo. Sometimes he wants to

600
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: be some sort of new populist politician. By trying to

601
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: be both, he ends up not being able to defend either,

602
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 1: which is what makes him such a catastrophic politician in

603
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: this age and why his approval ratings are such, you know,

604
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: are collapsing. He's both personally inept at speaking at you know,

605
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: appearing and using the bully pulpit whatsoever, and on a

606
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: policy level, is so all over the map that he's

607
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: a restrictionist and isolationist in some cases whenever it comes

608
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: to like Afghanistan, a neo khon when it comes to

609
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: Ukraine and the defense of NATO, A big bill spender

610
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: when it comes to the Cares Act of twenty twenty

611
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: one right after he became president, and then some weird

612
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: bipartisan deficit hawk whenever it comes to build back better.

613
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: What the hell are you? Nobody in this country can

614
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: be like Joe Biden is an X type politician. Yeah,

615
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: he just is. I don't really know how much. I mean,

616
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: that's he's I guess throughound his whole career. Part of

617
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: why he is kind of hard to figure is because

618
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: he's very reactive. It's just however he feels about the

619
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: personalities involved, or about the debate of the day, or

620
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: you know, how it sort of gels with one of

621
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: his little slogans or personal family lore that he trots

622
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: out that determines policy versus any kind of a real

623
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: sort of strategic vision, impetus direction ultimately and so so yeah,

624
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: I mean he's all over the board just to really try.

625
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 1: I've home the point that this is very different from

626
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: what he was saying and what he promised on the

627
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: campaign trail. Here he is on the campaign trail talking

628
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: about student debt. I'm going to make sure that everybody

629
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: in this generation gets ten thousand dollars knocked off of

630
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: their student debt as we try to get out of

631
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: this god awful pandemic. There you go, and again, look

632
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: I get it. Working with Congress, it's very hard. Mitch

633
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: mcconnald's very difficult, man, phil Buster Joe Manchin and Kirsten

634
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: Cinema or genuine obstacles because they're so corrupt and they're

635
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: just doing the better of the donors. You know, you

636
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: want to throw up these roadblocks like the parliamentarian these

637
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: other things, But on this one, it's really clear. If

638
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: you wanted to act, you could, and you've decided you

639
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: didn't want to. And by the way, just like putting

640
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: the morality and the utility of this policy aside, young

641
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: people are some of your strongest supporters, and they are

642
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: also some of the least likely to turn out in midterms.

643
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: So if you wanted to just you know, maybe throw

644
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: a bone to some of the people that you'd like

645
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: to show up and vote your people back in in

646
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: the midterms, well this wouldn't be a terrible idea. The

647
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: other thing I'll say about this is Iromy was messaging

648
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: both of us. I thought he made an interesting point.

649
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: Is he's like, you know, the thing with the student

650
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: debt and with the college you know, the student loan

651
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: payments as well, is that these people were basically sold

652
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: a false bill of goods, and rather than focusing the

653
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: Democratic Party focusing on building the labor movement, building wages

654
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: so that you had other solid middle class options to

655
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: go to without a college degree, instead what they leaned

656
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: into was everybody's got to go to college. That's that's

657
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: the one path for all, and you know, we're going

658
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: to push you that in that direction. And in the process,

659
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: of course, higher education costs skyrocketed, and what people are

660
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: getting out of it is, you know, ultimately not what

661
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: was promised. Yes, you were still much more likely to

662
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: get higher wages going on in college than coming straight

663
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 1: out of high school. But you're saddled with such debt

664
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: that they were effectively sold to false bill of goods,

665
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: which I do think is a really important moral context

666
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: around all of this. No question. One of the things

667
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: that frustrates me the most around a lot of the

668
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: democratic discussion is they're like, relieve all the debt, and

669
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, listen, I'm totally for some sort of

670
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: debt relief, but these people are criminals in the universities.

671
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: I mean, we did that segment in the past about

672
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: that Columbia what was it, the Columbia film student who

673
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: had one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt, some

674
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: outrageous six figure number, and we've got zero job opportunities

675
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 1: out of it. They increasingly the inflation in the cost

676
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: of tuition relative to the job market is astounding. It

677
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: is criminal. There are a variety of reasons as to

678
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: why that exactly has happened, and there any discussion of

679
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: pairing back student debt without a discussion of the incentives

680
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: and what they charge should be moot day one in

681
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 1: my opinion, And that's part of the issue I see

682
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: as well, the universities and the crooks and all the

683
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: private debt collectors or whatever that are making money hand

684
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: over fist on this. You know. The other thing is

685
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: that Biden himself should acknowledge that he is the one

686
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: who set up that original what is it, the two

687
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: thousand and five, two thousand and seven debt bill, which

688
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: made it so that you actually can garnish student you know, wages,

689
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: a student debt from your from your wages, isn't wasn't

690
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: he part of making sure you can't, Yeah, you can't

691
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: discharge exactly what I'm talking about. I'm recalling, I'm forgetting

692
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: the exact year that this debt legislation. But he was

693
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: the pioneer. Warren fought him on and then said not

694
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: a word about once he was actually running for president.

695
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: It was a different less Warren. Yeah, all right, So

696
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: from the bad news to the good news about the

697
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: young people, this is kind of cool. So Kellogg's, as

698
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: you guys know, workers at four different locations, they have

699
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: been on strike for quite a while and their big

700
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: issue is about two tier wages and system of wages

701
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: and benefits. This is something we've seen throughout a lot

702
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: of these strikes and Kellogg's came back with a contract.

703
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: Workers overwhelmingly rejected it, and so Kealag said, fine, then

704
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: we're just going to replace you with a bunch of scaps. Wow.

705
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Some TikTokers and folks on Reddit thought that they would

706
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: maybe mess with Kellogg's not only by boycotting them, but

707
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: also since Kellogg's is now, you know, having to hire

708
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: fourteen hundred workers to replace these striking workers, why don't

709
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: we mess with their hiring and resume system. So let's

710
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: go ahead and throw this tear sheet up on the screen.

711
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: This actually started on Reddit on the anti work subreddit

712
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: where they were talking where they were trying to come

713
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: up with ways to effectively spam the resume the application process,

714
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: and then a TikToker took another step forward and actually

715
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: wrote code to try to flood kellogg with bogus job

716
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: applications after it says the company announced it would permanently

717
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: replace striking workers. Let's take a look at who that

718
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: TikToker is and what he has to say about it. Well, well,

719
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: will it is about that time again? Do I remember this? Well,

720
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 1: apparently Kells is planning to replace workers who are fighting

721
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: for better workplace conditions and better pay. And so people

722
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: are at the antework suburb and found out that using

723
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: these websites to do it these locations. So you know

724
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: what I have to do, you know, not a couplet

725
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: little something, some little something some you know. I'm not

726
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: going to try to explain exactly what this does. I'm

727
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: just going to show you. Go ahead, run the code peace.

728
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: When I ran on one of the four websites, it

729
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: starts up an application. You need to sign in. Okay, Well,

730
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: it goes through the process of of signing in, has

731
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: a privacy agreement itself because his creates an account up

732
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: and then it feels everything else, all of it including

733
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: filling out the resume and then automatically applies application has

734
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: been said. And in case you're wondering gifts, all the

735
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: data is relevant data. Zip codes, match cities, match stage matches,

736
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: all matches up perfectly. I'm still working on the rest

737
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: of the fields. But not bad for a day's work,

738
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: I'd say so. Backed. Yeah, I love I love the

739
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: creativity and the like. He's really I mean, he's going forward.

740
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: Apparently it's working. I've seen a bunch of different tiktoks

741
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: with a lot of views of people talking about this

742
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: and engaging with it. I actually I joined TikTok. I

743
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: was inspired by this gentleman. Black Madness twenty one is

744
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: his handle. He was my very first follow. But he

745
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: had also written code after that Texas heartbeat law passed

746
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: to similarly spam an anti choice website that was trying

747
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,479
Speaker 1: to gather data about who might be breaking that law,

748
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: and so he wrote code to help automate the process

749
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: of spamming that website too. Also, remember gen Z, You

750
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: remember how they flooded the Trump rally with RSVPs and

751
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: trick them into thinking, I mean, it seemed to actually work,

752
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: trick them into thinking that they were going to have

753
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: tens of thousands more people at that rally than they

754
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: ultimately did, and it made for a very embarrassing situation

755
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: for him. Y yeah, Tulsa, And yeah, it was at

756
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: a time when you know, the campaign was just getting

757
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: kicked off, and it was it was controversial to do

758
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: in person events at all, and then they ended up

759
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: with this very embarrassing flop of a tiny, tiny crowd,

760
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: which his whole thing was big crowd size. Though it

761
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, it made a difference in terms of public perception.

762
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: But I just like the militancy and the creativity that

763
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: you see from this generation that isn't you know, They're

764
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: not going to just sit around and hope that Joe

765
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: Biden does something good. They're kind of taking matters into

766
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: their hands. No. Absolutely, It's very interesting to me around

767
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: the labor element of this. I mean, you know, it's

768
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: not surprising they have a bunch of gen Z kids

769
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: who are socially liberal who you know might be working

770
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: in or pot university life and more. But to work

771
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: and actually have some labor activism that would be a

772
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: wholesale change from whenever I was coming up in college.

773
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm the millennial. You know, I

774
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: went to college, graduate from college in twenty fourteen. I

775
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: don't think I spoke the word union the entire time

776
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: we were there, and I went to the to GW

777
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: to George wasthing University here, very classic. Everybody wanted to

778
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: be like Hillary on ironically Stream the Crane. But one

779
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: of the things that you would hear from them is

780
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: always around like international relations and you know a lot

781
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: of game marriage stuff. Because this was pre Oberger Fell.

782
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: A lot of social issues, but it was never any

783
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: discussion around both the financial crisis and especially around labor activism.

784
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: My kind of original awakening was around the financial crisis

785
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: and realized I'm like, none of these people know anything

786
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: or about anyone who's ever left lost home. And that

787
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: impact I started reading books are kind of the inklings

788
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: of what would ended up becoming the Trump backlash. George

789
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: Packer had a book twenty thirteen called The Unwinding had

790
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: a big impact on me as well. All of these

791
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: really is to say that if there is a change,

792
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: and I hope our show can have some role in

793
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: that in pushing younger people to understand both working class issues,

794
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: wages and the equity within economy. And I don't mean

795
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: equity in a racial sense, in terms of like how

796
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: we actually have a more balanced society and the way

797
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: that organized labor and how the people at the lowest

798
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: bottom of the wage spectrum in Totem pole play within that.

799
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: It would just be a huge plus. So I hope

800
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: this is a I'm still not going to join TikTok,

801
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 1: but I will. I will watch from Afar with great interest.

802
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: At this time, I I'm still scared of TikTok because

803
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: I don't really understand. I'm going to spend some time

804
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: with my thirteen year old helping me to really get it.

805
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: Maybe I should get a separate phone to protect all

806
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: my data and TikTok, your data is already gone. You're

807
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: probably right, give it up. I've already been stolen. I'm

808
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: crystal ball BP there. Don't expect me to post anything

809
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: anytime too, because I'm too scared to embarrass myself. But

810
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: I am gonna You know, if you have suggestions of

811
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: good people to follow, I would appreciate that. But I

812
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: think your point is a really important one. We know

813
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: from the polling, the younger you are, the more pro

814
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: union you're likely to be interesting. But there's been a

815
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: disconnect between that and actual sort of like understanding of

816
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: the labor movement, just because the labor movement has been,

817
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 1: you know, so marginalized, and because there are so few

818
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: people who were actually members of labor unions at this

819
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: point that it's not a part of daily conversation in

820
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: American public life the way that it used to be

821
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: several generations ago. I mean, obviously, I'm significantly older than you,

822
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 1: and from you know, for my generation, we weren't thinking

823
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: about unions whatsoever when we were coming out at college.

824
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: It took me, you know, running for political office and

825
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 1: engaging with rank and file and labor leaders to really

826
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: understand labor and why it was so important. And that's

827
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: me coming from, you know, a family that has a

828
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: pretty significant labor history. My mom was in a union

829
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: as a teacher. My dad his family, my mom's dad

830
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: was sheep metal worker. My dad's family also came you

831
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: know on a labor movement in operating engineers in West Virginia.

832
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: So even with that history, I still was totally uneducated

833
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: about it until I started to run for political office

834
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: and really started to engage with it. So it is

835
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: extremely exciting to see a major cultural shift in understanding

836
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: and engagement with labor issues because you know, ultimately, I

837
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: think that's the only way out of where we are.

838
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: I think if you want to build any sort of

839
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: working class power, multi racial working class power, that's the

840
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: place it starts. So to see these little, you know,

841
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: encouraging moves, creativity and true activism that's being widely shared

842
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: on TikTok and among gen z, I do think that's

843
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: really exciting. One of the more exciting things that's out

844
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: there right now. It really is, I said previously, I'm

845
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: again shamelessly stealing from somebody who tweeted this I don't know.

846
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: Which is that the people who kind of came of

847
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: age like we did post financial crisis have a weird

848
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: amount of familiarity with the financial system, like derivatives and

849
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: credit to false swaps and all this other stuff, you know,

850
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: the Big Short movie and all that. We have a

851
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: higher amount of what Wall Street like lexicon than the

852
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: general population. Just because of that. I think the current

853
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: generation is going to see that through the supply chains,

854
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 1: through truckering, through unions as well the Great resignation, having

855
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: more familiarity with that, and I would encourage them to

856
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: really delve deep into our history and to learn about

857
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: labor politics of the nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties, and the

858
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: nineteen forties in particular post World War Two, so analogous

859
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: to sew how much of our is happening in our

860
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: economy right now. So look, it's a deep part of

861
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: our history. They don't teach it anywhere. I didn't learn

862
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: it until I started reading books for myself. I never

863
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: heard about unions in school. A little bit of West

864
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: Virginia a teapot dome. It's effective. I mean it actually

865
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: was explicit. There was an explicit effort, like an actual

866
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 1: conspiracy to excise all teaching of labor history from American

867
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: textbooks in places like West Virginia. That was even more overt.

868
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys know, West Virginia has extraordinary history

869
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: of militant labor movements and some of the bloodiest battles

870
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: fought on American soil in West Virginia, you know, as

871
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: coal miners were trying to unionize. That was all banned

872
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 1: from West Virginia's textbooks until very recently. So it's not

873
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: an accident. It was intentional that these issues, and you

874
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: know the details of our history around these issues were

875
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: ultimately hidden. But look, if you're graduating either from high

876
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: school or college right now, you know what kind of

877
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: a labor market you're graduate into. It. It's precarious. It's

878
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: you have very little power. And so when you see

879
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: something over here that's like, oh, this could be an answer,

880
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: Oh I could actually have a say in my workplace,

881
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: you can see how that would be extremely attractive and

882
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: why there would be a big appetite for moving back

883
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: for having the pendulum swing back in that direction of

884
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: working workers having power in their workplace. Yeah, it's really interesting. Okay,

885
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: move on. Fun segment always about the media, this one

886
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: not as much about cable news but about how stuff

887
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,959
Speaker 1: works here in DC. So it's about punch Bowl News. Now,

888
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: to be clear, we actually use a lot of reporting

889
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: from punch Bowl News that's actually important. We find that

890
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: they have some of the best on the ground stuff

891
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: from Capitol Hill, updates, sources, and more. However, what you

892
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: have always known is that DC media in particular is

893
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: deeply intertwined with lobbyists and with corporate power in a

894
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: way that cable news is even less so. And what

895
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean by that is that the most important newsletters

896
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: in Washington, punch Bowl News being one of them, Politico Playbook,

897
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: axios Am are specifically sponsored by the largest corporations on

898
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: earth because they want their news in order and their

899
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: ads in order to get in front of congressional staffers,

900
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 1: other people who are in media, the players at the

901
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: top who set regulations. It's one of the most effective

902
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: ways for them to lobby against stuff is by co

903
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: opting the DC media elite. One of the famous times

904
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: where this was actually called out was when Bernie Sanders

905
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: did that live stream with the Washington Post and it

906
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: was sponsored by Bank of America. So it was like,

907
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: Washington Post sits down with Bernie Sandered. He came out,

908
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: He's like, is this really sponsored by Bank of America.

909
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: It was like, I'm sure the Washington Post people were

910
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: like freaking out. But that was a you know, the

911
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: first time that I even saw politician spot like this.

912
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: So that's the background. It matters a lot in terms

913
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: of setting the way that people view the news, experience

914
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: the news, and understand what's going on in this city.

915
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: Are three very important newsletters, Axios Am, punch Bowl News,

916
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: and Playbook. Punch Bowl is run by Jake Sherman, Anna Palmer,

917
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: and I'm forgetting the other guy. I think his name

918
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: is John something. They are former Playbook employees of Politico

919
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: spun off their own company. So let's put this up

920
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: there on the screen and finally get to it. This

921
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: is really interesting. So punch Bowl News recently hosted a

922
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: on a Sunday afternoon, a Washington football team little meetup

923
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: in which it was attended by quote, the American Investment Council,

924
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: which is the private Equity Industries Trade Group, Bruce Andrews

925
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: of Intel, John Cott Lobbyist, A Capital Council, Marissa Mitrovich

926
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: of Frontier Communications. People from law firms like consulting firms

927
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: like McKenzie, Microsoft, Johnson and Johnson, Toyota, the National Restaurant Association,

928
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: American Express, some law firms which represent National Beer Association, JP,

929
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: Morgan and Chase, the corporate lobbyists of Business Roundtable, which

930
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: is the largest lobbying organization for Fortune five hundred companies,

931
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: a TikTok executive, a man that I've actually exposed here

932
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: on the show before, Blackstone Group, Exxon Mobile. So who's who? Together?

933
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: They probably represent what over trillions of dollars in market cap,

934
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: I mean some of the that right there is one

935
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: of the largest sectors of the entire US economy. And

936
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: what's even more interesting that the prospect dug into is

937
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: that the seats and the box in which they were

938
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: hosting the event appears to have been even donated to

939
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: the group. And of course, you know, this is a

940
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: very influential team here in DC. Dan Snyder, the man

941
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: who owns a team, is a billionaire. And what you're

942
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: seeing is all kinds of not only co optation but

943
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: direct spawnship by all of these groups. In punch Bowl News,

944
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: hosting a quote unquote confab between reporters and their actual

945
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: sponsors is something that other media organizations actually took a

946
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: long time to try and develop firewalls if there even

947
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: is such a thing ye between the sales staff and

948
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: the people who sponsor them in this case, that barely exists.

949
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: And David Siota over at the Daily Poster is always

950
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: just showing you who is sponsoring this week's punch Bowl

951
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 1: News in some cases is presented by Pharma, presented by Facebook.

952
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: Something that has irked me personally, Crystal, is that punch

953
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: Bowl News has gone all over New York Media trying

954
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: to present themselves as some cool newsletter subscription company because

955
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: they charge a premium subscription just like in the way

956
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: that we do with their product. And they're revealed their

957
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: revenue to the Wall Street Journal. Let's put this up

958
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: there on the screen where you can actually see within there.

959
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: It's called journalists venture beyond their newsroom to try to

960
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: crack cash in well, what they reveal to the Wall

961
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: Street Journal is that they've made a million dollars in

962
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: revenue since the on ten million dollars this year. So

963
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is that one million of

964
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: their dollars has come from paid subscriptions, but they made

965
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: ten million, which means what that nine million, aka ninety

966
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: percent of their revenue is coming from corporate ads like

967
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: Facebook and like ax On, and like Pharma and like

968
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: private equity. One of the reasons that you and I

969
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: left the Hill is because, let's be honest, that's how

970
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 1: the Hill made money too. It's all about DC Beltway

971
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: insider media who charge premium ad rates to a bunch

972
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: of people who want influence lawmakers. And I want you

973
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: to think about that part for a minute. I think

974
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: that's really important because we were uncomfortable at the Hill

975
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: just knowing that was happening at all. We didn't even

976
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: have happen, We had nothing to do with it with it.

977
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: We didn't even know who was you know, the sponsors were,

978
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: or who was coming in, who was average. We didn't

979
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,919
Speaker 1: even know unless someone wrote us about it and was like, hey,

980
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: did you know you're sponsored by the American Petroleum or

981
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: whatever pissed off. Yeah, And so we felt uncomfortable just

982
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: even knowing that was happening, even when we had nothing

983
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: to do with it. Now, imagine how just flagrantly corrupt

984
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: it is to have the same people who were doing

985
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: the quote unquote journalism having buddy buddy relationships, hanging out

986
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: at a football game taking pictures together, and this total

987
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: intertwining of the content and the journalism and the editorial

988
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 1: decision making with the corporate advertising. As you said, this

989
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: is way worse than cable news because again, at cable news,

990
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: there's one department that is buying and selling ads, you know,

991
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: that's dealing with the corporate people and having that whole engagement,

992
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: and then the anchors are not they're not involved with that,

993
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: so and they're same thing. They don't really know, you know,

994
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: oftentimes exactly who's who's advertising or sponsoring during their hours,

995
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: et cetera. And it's ever changing. So there's at least

996
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: some some lines there. There's some distance between the content

997
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: and the editorial and the advertising here. I mean, there's

998
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: just there's nothing. And you see on the newsletter, you

999
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: see who it's paid for by. You see the way

1000
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: they're directly overtly courting these individuals, And yeah, I mean

1001
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: this is part of the direction that the media landscape

1002
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,479
Speaker 1: is going in because do I think that punch Bowl

1003
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: is going to pay any price for this type of

1004
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: thing Layton corruption though. It is just all totally out

1005
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: in the open, and I don't think they'll pay a

1006
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: price for it. I don't think they'll be, you know,

1007
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 1: pushed down a flight society. I don't think Jake Sherman

1008
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: will get any fewer CNN at MSNBC. You can see

1009
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: how much I watched People News. Yeah, it's not I mean,

1010
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: they're not going to have a problem with it. So

1011
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: it just shows you this will become the new norm

1012
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: because it's highly profitable for these people. I do want

1013
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: to say about the Washington football team and Dan Snyder

1014
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: that he is total trash and has absolutely driven a

1015
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: once proud team in joo the ground. I don't know.

1016
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if about football. Grew up as a

1017
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: Redskins fan, and it's been hard to watch, right, I

1018
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: don't know enough. I like that quarterback Taylor Haneke. All

1019
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: I can say is from this is that I cannot

1020
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,919
Speaker 1: emphasize to everyone who's watching this show enough how much

1021
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: influence these people have. They are many celebrities here in

1022
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: DC because they have this town wired. They talk to

1023
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: every single person who matters. They use their reporting to

1024
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: get scoops, and they drive the new cycle in a

1025
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,959
Speaker 1: way that if you were to say, of the top

1026
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: fifteen most important people in DC, I would definitely put

1027
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: them in there. Yeah, alongside people like Nancy Pelosi and

1028
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer, President Biden. I mean, they are that influential

1029
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: into how this town works. I see our role sometimes

1030
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 1: as really trying to explain, having been inside the system,

1031
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: how exactly that system works to people who are watching,

1032
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: because you're not crazy. It really is just a small

1033
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: group of people, and those small group of people, with

1034
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: their outside influence, they make outsize cash and even us

1035
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: a skeptical of as we are, we have to depend

1036
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: on what they're doing. Nobody else does it. There's no

1037
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: other because they're the ones that get the money, they're

1038
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: the ones that get the access. So we use Punchable

1039
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: in particular during the build back better because when that

1040
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: was like hot and having now we're kind of like,

1041
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: well it's kind of stripped down for parts at this

1042
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: point and maybe not going to pass at all. But

1043
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: when those when those negotiations were really hot, I mean

1044
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: they had, you know, one development after another, and there

1045
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: were very few other places where you could get that information.

1046
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,439
Speaker 1: So what we try to do is we try to take,

1047
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, that information and sort of question it for

1048
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: what their biases might be there to try to present

1049
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: you the closest to what's actually going on. But that's

1050
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: part of why they're influential, is because since they do

1051
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: have so much money and so much access, there's no

1052
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: other option but to use that. Reporting on things like that,

1053
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: it's very difficult. We try to be very transparent about that,

1054
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: and I always keep it in a grain of salt,

1055
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: to be like, just so you know where this is

1056
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: coming from. Why we try to try to information from

1057
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: all sides, but it just look, this is why it's

1058
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: so hard, and it's exactly because of the people who

1059
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: pays them. Crystal, what are you taking a look at? Well, guys,

1060
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: they knew it was coming. As we learn more details

1061
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: about the powerful tornadoes that claim scores of human lives

1062
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: across five different states, we are also learning more about

1063
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: exactly what caused these storms to be so deadly for casters,

1064
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: After all, they were issuing dire warnings well in advance.

1065
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: Meteorologists have actually become extraordinarily effective at predicting when and

1066
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: where tornadoes are going to strike. New York Times spoke

1067
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: with a cashier at gas station in Mayfield, Kentucky, that

1068
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: was the hardest hit town, who told them that her

1069
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: phone had beefed with alert all day long, that she

1070
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: was glued to the forecast and the impending storm was

1071
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: all that customers were talking about as they came and went. Quote,

1072
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,479
Speaker 1: we all knew the storm was going to hit, She said,

1073
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: There's no way a single person here didn't know the

1074
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: storm was coming. So how did so many still perish? Now?

1075
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: One reason, of course, is just the inescapable whims of

1076
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: Mother Nature. The tornadoes hit at night in areas with

1077
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: significant population centers, a result that actually might be caused

1078
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: by climate change shifting the traditional tornado alley. But some

1079
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: of the deaths were entirely preventable. At a candle factory

1080
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: in Mayfield and at an Amazon distribution center in Illinois,

1081
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: workers died on mass for a simple reason, human greed.

1082
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: At the candle factory, a place that has come to

1083
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: symbolize the utter devastation of these storms, we have now

1084
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: learned that workers were told if they left early, they

1085
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: would be fired. Here's NBC news quote for hours. As

1086
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: word of the coming storm spread, as many as fifteen

1087
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: workers begged managers to let them take shelter at their

1088
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: own homes, only to have their requests rebuffed. One year

1089
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: old Elijah Johnson he was one of those workers. He said,

1090
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: I asked to leave, and they told me I'd be fired.

1091
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: Even with the weather like this, You're still going to

1092
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: fire me, he asked, yes, a manager responded. Johnson said

1093
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: that managers went so far as to take a role

1094
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: call in hopes of finding out who had left work early.

1095
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: With Christmas just around the corner. Continued production of scented

1096
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: candles for companies like Bath and Body Works that was

1097
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: put above workers' lives. When a tornado decimated the building,

1098
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: eight workers were ultimately killed. Many more were trapped under

1099
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: the rubble, terrified for their lives, praying to God to

1100
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 1: save them. And then, of course there's Amazon. So Osha

1101
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: is now investigating whether their actions and neglect contributed to

1102
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: the deaths of six workers at an Illinois distribution center.

1103
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: But what we already know here is beyond damning. First

1104
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: of all, after the tornado hit, Amazon didn't even know

1105
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: how many people were there. Only seven of the one

1106
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety people on site were actually employees of Amazon.

1107
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 1: The rest were drivers who were deemed independent contractors. That's

1108
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: a classification that allows Amazon to skirt labor regulations and

1109
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: which apparently also keeps them from having to give a

1110
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: single care about who these human beings are. As one

1111
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: ast Twitter user wrote, quote, they may not have any

1112
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: clue about the human beings in that center, but I

1113
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: bet they know exactly how many iPads were in that warehouse,

1114
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: well said. Second of all, Amazon has a standard policy

1115
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: against allowing workers to have phones with them at work.

1116
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,919
Speaker 1: The implications and emergency situations are obvious, as the rest

1117
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: of the community is getting alerts and warnings and forecasts

1118
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: and updates from loved ones. Amazon workers are wholly dependent

1119
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: on the goodwill of their bosses and corporate overlords to

1120
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: tell them about their safety and any hazardous weather that

1121
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: might be headed their way. As one worker at a

1122
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: different Amazon facility told Bloomberg News after these deaths, there

1123
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: is no way in hell I am relying on Amazon

1124
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: to keep me safe. If they institute the no cell

1125
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: phone policy, I am resigning. And finally, as was the

1126
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: case with the candle factory, it appears that workers were

1127
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: held hostage at the deadly facility, forced to stay even

1128
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: as they wanted to flee for their safety. This outrageous

1129
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: situation ultimately ended in tragedy. Just take a look at this.

1130
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: These are the very last text that Amazon driver Larry

1131
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: Verdon sent to his girlfriend, quote, I'm fueling up now

1132
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: be home after the storm. Amazon won't let us leave.

1133
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: Thirty minutes later, his girlfriend texts to check in. I

1134
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: hope everything is okay. I love you. Larry would never respond.

1135
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: Killed by the wrath of mother nature combined with the

1136
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: callousness of his fellow humans. He leaves behind four children,

1137
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: and this is far from the first time that Amazon's

1138
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: first forced workers to continue through deadly conditions, whether it

1139
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: was a flooding from Ida and extreme heat wave in

1140
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest, or the tens of thousands of positive

1141
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: COVID cases that it hid from its workers and from

1142
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: the public. But there's no accident that a small candle

1143
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: factory in Mayfield, Kentucky would share the same greedy and

1144
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: deadly Ethos is one of the world's largest multinational companies. Ultimately,

1145
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: in this country, workers' lives matter less than profit. That

1146
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: is the cold, hard truth. What else can you take

1147
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: from the fact that workers were threatened with job loss

1148
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: if they dared try to save their own lives. In fact,

1149
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: that state of affairs is literally codified into law. We're

1150
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: going to talk to David Strote more about the scoop tomorrow,

1151
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: but he uncovered that industry groups, including some tied to Amazon,

1152
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: just blocked legislation in Illinois that would have protected workers

1153
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: from retribution for leaving the workplace for their own safety.

1154
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: At well, employment means the boss can fire you for

1155
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: any reason, and that includes trying to save your life. Sure,

1156
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: you might say, well, it's a free country. Ultimately, those

1157
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: workers they could walk out anytime that they want. But

1158
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: when monopolies dominate every sector of society, what other choice

1159
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: do you really have? The technical freedom to walk amounts

1160
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: to no real freedom at all when so few good

1161
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: opportunities are available, and of course, being jobless in America,

1162
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: that is not an option. Your job and your boss

1163
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: has you prisoner. Amazon, they might pioneer some of the

1164
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: most brutal workplace tactics, but treating workers as disposable that

1165
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: is a feature of our system, not a bug. This

1166
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: has never been more clear than it was during the pandemic.

1167
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: Remember all the essential worker discourse bosses were happy to

1168
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: put up a sign about how much they love there

1169
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: are workers who are risking their lives for low wages

1170
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: to keep the country running. Did they pay them more

1171
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: with few exceptions, No, Just like how those same bosses

1172
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: were happy to throw out Black Lives Matter banners while

1173
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: they were lying to their disproportionately black workforces about the

1174
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: number of COVID invections at their own workplaces. It is

1175
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: entirely appropriate to feel discussed in loathing for people like

1176
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos who create these workplaces and their rules and

1177
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: the mechanisms of enforcement. But is a corrupt system that

1178
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: is the real problem here. It is worker powerlessness in

1179
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: the place where they spend most of their lives that

1180
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: is the real problem. Because we love the whole idea

1181
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: of democracy in this country in theory, but somehow democracy

1182
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: in the workplace that is considered radical, that is considered foreign.

1183
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: So call me crazy, but I think workers' lives are

1184
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: worth more than scented candles, and I think they should

1185
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: have enough power in their workplace to not be held

1186
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: hostage and cut off from communications as a deadly Tornado

1187
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: runs its course, and Sager, the more that we learned

1188
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: about these tragedies, both at the candle factory and with Amazon,

1189
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: the more you realize how preventable. And if you want

1190
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium

1191
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com. All right, Sager, what

1192
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 1: are you looking at? Well, for a little while there,

1193
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: it seemed like things were finally calming down. Even the

1194
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: mentally ill folks in charge of the City of Washington,

1195
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: DC finally rescinded their mask mandate mask wearing outside in DC,

1196
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: a metric that I used for the paranoia level of

1197
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: the average upper middle class lib it was declining. I thought,

1198
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: perhaps we would get to the other side of this thing.

1199
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: Should have known better, because it was just two days

1200
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: later that the Omicron panic started. Omicron is in New York,

1201
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: Omicron is in California. Omicron and a guy who is

1202
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: triple vax. Oh my god. That was the internal media

1203
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: diet for many of the people, and predictively, the science,

1204
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: the logic, and the insanity. It has now come right

1205
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: back so swiftly that I honestly feel like I'm losing

1206
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 1: my mind. Sure, we may not have lockdowns, but we

1207
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: do have a paranoid elite that is destroying the lives

1208
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: of young people, of consumers, and of everyday citizens at

1209
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: exactly the time when we need to collectively realize this

1210
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: is never going away. The chief offender is once again

1211
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: the state of California, which has preempted all local regulations

1212
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: and is instituting a statewide mask mandate indoors that applies

1213
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: not only to your business. But listen to this, in

1214
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: the case of Santa Cruz, California requires quote, masks must

1215
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: be worn in private settings, including your home, when non

1216
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: household members are present. That is a real sentence that

1217
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: I just read from the order of Santa Cruz, California.

1218
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: And the worst part is what brought it back in

1219
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: the first place. The impetus, according to the state's Secretary

1220
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services, was a large increase in

1221
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: the number of coronavirus cases note not deaths, not hospitalizations.

1222
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: Cases to the extent that those two are related. It

1223
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: is predominantly amongst people who have not had the vaccine

1224
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 1: or do not have access to early intervention therapeutics. So

1225
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: once again, case count is the only thing that these

1226
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: people are focusing on, and they are thus setting a

1227
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: standard that there is no permanent return to normal. I

1228
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: can't emphasize this enough. There will always be COVID cases

1229
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: in America, not just America worldwide. You need to accept this.

1230
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: This thing is literally endear now. It's in animals. You

1231
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: could eradicate it right now in all humans. It would

1232
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: still be mutating and jumping in the future. It's okay

1233
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: because from what we see and continue to see, all

1234
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: variants have not jumped the vaccine in terms of hospitalization

1235
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: or death or therapy. You indexability to rebuse hospitalization and

1236
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: deaths from COVID. Therefore, the cases themselves only matter insofar

1237
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: as they actually kill people. And if they do kill

1238
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 1: people who want to risk it, well that's on them,

1239
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: not on the rest of us. And yet sensible mindset

1240
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: is being embraced by not only the largest state by

1241
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: population in the Union, but by worse to institutions that

1242
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: are not even accountable to democrats. To to democratic impulse,

1243
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: private institutions with massive sway over American cultural life have

1244
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: caught the same mind disease as the public health bureaucrats,

1245
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 1: and they are setting up a future where COVID theater

1246
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: will literally stay here forever. You don't believe me, take

1247
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:40,839
Speaker 1: a look at the wealthiest corporation in the United States.

1248
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 1: Apple is reinstating a mass mandate all US stores, limiting

1249
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: store occupancy till when that's up to Apple soon, many

1250
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: large retail corporations will follow suit. I guarantee you won't

1251
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: even matter if the government in your area does have

1252
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 1: a mass mandate. The private businesses will enforce the policy

1253
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,759
Speaker 1: of the mentally ill. But it's actually worse than Apple.

1254
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: The places where I actually start to lose it are

1255
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:07,839
Speaker 1: the universities where I hear tales of true insanity. College

1256
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: students thrust into chaos with sporadic testing, people narking on

1257
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: each other for going to parties, and a bureaucracy accountable

1258
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: to no one that revels in enforcing mandates with no

1259
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:22,440
Speaker 1: scientific backing. George Washington University, where I went to undergraduate

1260
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: here in the DC, is requiring booster shots for its

1261
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: entire student population or they will not be eligible to

1262
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,440
Speaker 1: register for summer or fall semester on campus, zero consideration

1263
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: of where they need one or not they have COVID

1264
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: already on top of their vaccine doesn't matter considering that

1265
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 1: one of the first cases of omicron was even caught

1266
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: by somebody who was boosted. Is there zero evidence right

1267
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: now that that is even going to stop cases and

1268
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: transmission broadly? So, once again, where does this end? GW

1269
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: is not the only offender. Take a look at Cornell,

1270
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: which is shutting down its entire campus and moving to

1271
01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: a quote alert level read after rapids spread COVID among students.

1272
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: Now you know what Cornell doesn't mention in their cancelation.

1273
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: They already have a vaccine mandate. Every single one of

1274
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: those students is vaccinated. In addition to being young, they

1275
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: have a minuscule chance of death or illness, and so

1276
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,719
Speaker 1: do all of their employees who also are vaccinated. This

1277
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: is a moral panic. You can tell me I'm cherrypicking,

1278
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: but I'm not a fool. I saw social justice ideology

1279
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: ripple through universities in the twenty tens to emerge at

1280
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 1: the state, Hollywood, and media level by twenty seventeen. Now

1281
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: I see COVID mania institutionalized at the top universities and corporations.

1282
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: Directional power in elite liberalism starts with the bureaucratic mindset

1283
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 1: and from their ripples out to all of our lives.

1284
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: And that's why I know. Maybe I sound a little crazy,

1285
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 1: but honestly, I'm fed up. I've had enough, not just

1286
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 1: for myself, but watching young people who I care about

1287
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 1: have their entire lives destroyed by people with little to

1288
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 1: lose and who are basing their decisions on emotion and

1289
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: have been for some time. Is there a fix to this,

1290
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: I honestly cannot tell you. It's not like you can

1291
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 1: vote out the president of Cornell or GW or the

1292
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: CEO of Apple. Those people are accountable only to their peers,

1293
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: to the extent that they're accountable at all. But I

1294
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 1: know one thing they absolutely cannot resist is a crushing

1295
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: resistance to this nonsense. I don't know what that looks like.

1296
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: Most people be gardgingly comply because they're just trying to

1297
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: get by in life. I'm still trying to figure it out, too.

1298
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: All I know is that this cannot stand. It's got

1299
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: to break eventually. If the elites want to remain in power,

1300
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: they better listen now before somebody comes along and actually

1301
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: smash us it all apart. I mean, the Cornell thing, Crystal,

1302
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: I think is nuts. These people are all vaked. What

1303
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: are you supposed to do? I mean, you have kids

1304
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 1: like and if you want to hear my reaction to

1305
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1306
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: We have some very interesting guests to join us right now.

1307
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,759
Speaker 1: We have Patrick Porter and Elbridge Colby. They wrote dueling

1308
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 1: in National Review on whether the United States should or

1309
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: should not defend Taiwan. Obviously that has come to the

1310
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 1: forour of US foreign policy, and it's something which I

1311
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: have very complicated feelings on. I don't even know yet

1312
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 1: where I stand Crystal as well, and we're trying. My

1313
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,560
Speaker 1: failings aren't that okay? But anyway, mine's still interesting. I

1314
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: don't really know what So I thought, you know, we

1315
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: would air some of the debate here on the show. Bridge,

1316
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: why don't we start with you? You wrote the United

1317
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: States should defend Taiwan. We have a tear sheet of that.

1318
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 1: Let's put it up there on the screen. Could you

1319
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,719
Speaker 1: just give us a short summary of that view, about

1320
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: what you were trying to express there and what exactly

1321
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: that you think. Sure, great to be on with you

1322
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: guys and with Patrick. I mean, look, this is fundamentally

1323
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 1: about us about Americans interests and about China's ability to

1324
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: dominate Asia. Look, the reality is Asia is going to

1325
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,879
Speaker 1: be well over fifty percent of global GDP in the future.

1326
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: If China dominates it, which it clearly wants to do,

1327
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 1: it will dominate our lives, our jobs, our economic you know,

1328
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 1: specs and security we're just talking about. And it will

1329
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 1: undermine our liberties, which they're already trying to do. Look

1330
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: what they're doing in Australia, and we look what they've

1331
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: done in the NBA and Disney, et cetera. And Taiwan

1332
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: is not about Taiwan per se, It's about us. But

1333
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 1: Taiwan is really important to preventing China from dominating Asia

1334
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,839
Speaker 1: because it's Look everybody out there, a lot of countries

1335
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: like India, Japan, Philippines, et cetera. They'd like to live

1336
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: without being dominated by China, but they're worried about whether

1337
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 1: it's prudent to stand up to Beijing. That's the big question.

1338
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 1: And the only rational basis they can do that for

1339
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 1: or with is American leadership and strength. And again I'm

1340
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: not a fetishist on American leadership. I think we need

1341
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: to do less in the rest of the world. I've

1342
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: opposed essentially every military action in my adult life by

1343
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 1: the United States. But this is central issue. This is

1344
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 1: really critical to our interests, and they're all going to

1345
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: be looking how we treat Taiwan because we do have

1346
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 1: our credibility on the line with Taiwan. That's the fact,

1347
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: and it's also very militarily significant. It's right in the

1348
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: middle of the sort of Western Pacific area what's called

1349
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 1: the First Island Chain. Sounds obscure, but look, the reality is,

1350
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 1: we're best at naval, aerospace, high technology warfare. We don't

1351
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:07,799
Speaker 1: want to get in the ground war on the Asian mainland.

1352
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: That's been bad for US. Taiwan's in island, Japan's islands,

1353
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: Philippines or islands Australia, et cetera. That's our wheelhouse. So

1354
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: if we let Taiwan go, our alternatives are going to

1355
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: be much worse because countries in the region are you say, oh, well,

1356
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 1: I guess you sold them down the river despite all

1357
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: your flapping your gums. Well, if I'm in Manila, I'm

1358
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: probably gonna look to cut a deal too. And so

1359
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: the best course for US is to defend Taiwan, but

1360
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 1: really to focus on it to make it less costly

1361
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: and risky. And that's a matter of our defense establishment,

1362
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 1: our political establishment, doing less elsewhere and really focusing on

1363
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 1: making it tenable. And it is tenable because it's very

1364
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 1: difficult to launch and sustain an amphibious attack across one

1365
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:47,600
Speaker 1: hundred miles of water. So we can do this. We

1366
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: just need to focus, and we haven't been, which is infuriating. Frankly, Patrick,

1367
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: before I have you sort of rebut and give your

1368
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: side of that, I actually want you to defend the

1369
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 1: peace that you both agree on, because you start from

1370
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: a sort of basic framework that China is aggressive. You write,

1371
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 1: Beijing's desire to dominate is clear. You say you agree

1372
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: with Bridge that it needs some containing. I mean, just

1373
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,759
Speaker 1: justify that. Why do you think Chinese aggression is clear?

1374
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: And why do you think that Americans should care what

1375
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 1: China's ultimate goals are? What are the concrete risks in

1376
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: terms of Americans and how they live their lives? Well? Great,

1377
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:31,640
Speaker 1: and thank you for having me on. And can I

1378
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: urge everybody to buy and read Bridge's book, which is

1379
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: a landmark work. Quite simply, I believe that China's bid

1380
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,719
Speaker 1: for dominance in Asia is threatening at a very practical level,

1381
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: because it's a raging that is determined not only to

1382
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: be the leading regime in Asia, but to suppress descent everywhere.

1383
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 1: We should be mindful of the goals it's set out.

1384
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 1: And it literally claims the entirety of the South China Sea.

1385
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 1: It's outlawed descent any on earth about Hong Kong. And

1386
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 1: we've seen and that your show has shown the way,

1387
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 1: the and serious way it uses its economic coercip powers

1388
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: to silence dissent. And the danger is that a China

1389
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: that becomes overmighty in the region. It's not so much

1390
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: that you wake up one morning one morning and China

1391
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 1: is present in Washington. It's it's not the danger of

1392
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: physically running the table and taking over all the territories.

1393
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: It's becoming such a dominant state that, in effect, across society,

1394
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 1: across across the economy, across civil society, Americans end up

1395
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 1: having to censor themselves and watch what they say for

1396
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: fair untry. Can I just push on that a little bit.

1397
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 1: Doesn't that have as much to do with US policy

1398
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: as it does about China. I mean, we didn't have

1399
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: to ship all of our manufacturing capacity overseas and make

1400
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: ourselves so dependent on China that, you know, whether it's

1401
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 1: Hollywood or whether it's tech companies, feel that they have

1402
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,639
Speaker 1: to or should you know, bend the need to whatever

1403
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: it is the Chinese government ultimately once. I mean, doesn't

1404
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: that have a lot to do with the fact that

1405
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:09,719
Speaker 1: domestically we've put profit margins and increases in GDP over

1406
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: any other sort of national value here it does. I

1407
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: think the United States has inadvertently made itself vulnerable to this.

1408
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: And I think one of the most important fronts in

1409
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: this struggle is exactly that, the geoeconomic front, the industrial front,

1410
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: not just the military front. So I entirely agree, But

1411
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't make the problem go away. It means that

1412
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 1: action is needed across a whole range of areas. And

1413
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:36,599
Speaker 1: so Patrick, get in. Then you've come to this shared assumption, though,

1414
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 1: but you come on the opposite side of the spectrum,

1415
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: and then Bridge will come to you. Go ahead, Patrick, Okay.

1416
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:46,719
Speaker 1: So I believe that the United States shouldn't ultimately commit

1417
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,839
Speaker 1: to fighting for Taiwan for two reasons. Firstly, the issue

1418
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: is too dangerously war prone. It's singularly dangerous as a

1419
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: flashpoint it's too high a risk of de terrence failing

1420
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: and too higher risk of iff or shooting. Ward does

1421
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: breakout that the United States does not get the swift, overwhelming,

1422
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 1: decisive war that it wants, the one that it wants

1423
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: to fight at acceptable cost. But secondly linked to that,

1424
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,959
Speaker 1: while I believe and I agree with Bridge that Taiwan's

1425
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 1: fate matters, and that failing to refusing to fight for

1426
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 1: Taiwan would have consequences, it doesn't matter so much that

1427
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: it's worth going to the brinkover. In other words, I

1428
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 1: think I think Bridge exaggerates the strategic consequences. Now, I believe,

1429
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: and I agree with Bridge that were the uvers to

1430
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 1: ultimately stay back and only offer support short with measures

1431
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 1: short of war, that would create manifold problems. It would

1432
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 1: create problems with alliances, It would create problems with want

1433
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: to do the day after, but nothing like the problem

1434
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: of actually getting into a major war where the US

1435
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: can't control the escalation and which would do the thing

1436
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 1: with Bridge fears, which would destroy America's position in Asia. Yeah,

1437
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 1: I mean Bridge, look guards on the table. I think personally,

1438
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 1: I think it's insane to risk war with China. But

1439
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: I thought one of the more compelling points that Patrick

1440
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 1: made in his piece is just that China cares a

1441
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 1: lot more about Taiwan than we do. And so we've

1442
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: seen how this has gone for America, but for other

1443
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,679
Speaker 1: countries as well, whether it's getting embroiled in Afghanistan where

1444
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: the Taliban cares a lot more about that country ultimately

1445
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: than we do. So even with a force that is

1446
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: vastly militarily inferior, like the Taliban was, we end up

1447
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 1: more or less defeated just because we don't really care

1448
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: as much, nearly as much about Taiwan as China does.

1449
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: Patrick compares it to the way that Americans feel like

1450
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 1: about Texas. So what do you say to that point

1451
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 1: of just, you know, this doesn't make a lot of

1452
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: sense strategically when they have so much more at stake

1453
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 1: and invested in it. Well, a couple of points, I mean,

1454
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: And I think Patrick and I share a lot, and

1455
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 1: you know I respected and sympathized with your instincts, Crystal,

1456
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 1: But look, here's the facts. Over fifty percent of global

1457
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 1: GDP is going to be in Asia, and if the

1458
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 1: Chinese dominate Asia, it will matter immensely, and so it

1459
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:57,879
Speaker 1: won't be a matter of our choice what our economic

1460
01:19:57,920 --> 01:19:59,879
Speaker 1: policy is. It won't be a matter of our decision.

1461
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 1: All the debates you're having about how to reform the

1462
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: social media companies won't matter because they will all be

1463
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 1: essentially behold in their work for the Chinese. That's the reality.

1464
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,640
Speaker 1: It's about power, and that's what Patrick and I agree on,

1465
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,719
Speaker 1: and I think it's really critical that we not become

1466
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 1: so solipsistic that we think that we can chart our

1467
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 1: future without considering the world at large. If we were

1468
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 1: over fifty percent of GDP, ourselves might be different, but

1469
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 1: we're not going to be We're all going to be

1470
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 1: working for the Asian market in the future, and we

1471
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: have to reckon with that. The second point is, well, look,

1472
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 1: the Chinese have cared more about Taiwan than we have

1473
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: since nineteen forty nine, but they haven't been able to

1474
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: take it over for a couple of reasons. One, they

1475
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 1: couldn't Unlike in Taiwan, in Afghanistan, which was a foolish

1476
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: nation building mission disconnected from a real practical military goal,

1477
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 1: this is a very clear goal, which is defeat the

1478
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: invasion a lah Brittain in nineteen forty Moreover, there's some

1479
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: people who do care a lot more about the fate

1480
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 1: of Taiwan than we do, and that's the Taiwanese, and

1481
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:51,719
Speaker 1: they don't want to be taken over by the Chinese.

1482
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 1: So the Chinese actually have a very tough problem. And

1483
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 1: the point I would say in response to Patrick is

1484
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 1: we're going to have to be prepared to fight that

1485
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: war at some point or another. That's the real question.

1486
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: Because Taiwan is a hundred miles from China. But you

1487
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 1: know what else is South Korea? So you now what

1488
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 1: else is one hundred miles from Taiwan. The Philippine island

1489
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 1: of Luzan and Japan is only about two hundred and

1490
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 1: three hundred miles I think from China or Taiwan, depending

1491
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: on how you measure it. So we're going to have

1492
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: to be willing to fight over there. We did this

1493
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: in World War Two. We had the same arguments, but

1494
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:20,879
Speaker 1: then it was actually less compelling. Now Asia is clearly

1495
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 1: the center of the world. If we let the Chinese

1496
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 1: run rough shot over it. I mean, what they're doing

1497
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,719
Speaker 1: to Lebron and John sayinge that's just a tiny taste

1498
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 1: of what's going to happen to us. And they are

1499
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: very willing to do it. Chijinping lived in a cave

1500
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,560
Speaker 1: for five years as a teenager. He's basically murdered a

1501
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 1: lot of his political opponents. If you think he's going

1502
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 1: to treat us more gently than he's treating the Chinese people,

1503
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: then I think we're not reckoning with reality. So it's

1504
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 1: a tough look, it's a tough decision. It's not cut

1505
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: and dry. But the key is if we're clear headed

1506
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: about it, and we present them with a situation where

1507
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 1: they know they'll fail or they have a high probability

1508
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:55,880
Speaker 1: of failure, we'll be able to keep going and it'll

1509
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: be satisfactory. Bridge. Let me ask you of this, and

1510
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: this is a common one that I completely sympathize with.

1511
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 1: Taiwan's only spending two point one percent of its defense

1512
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 1: on GDP I'm sorry, GDP on national defense. So if

1513
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: they really cared so much about defending themselves, why are

1514
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 1: they barely hitting a target that Poland and the Eastern

1515
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 1: European countries are surpassing. They don't seem to want to

1516
01:22:15,479 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 1: defend themselves as much, so why should we. So it's

1517
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 1: a disgrace, first of all, and I tell them that

1518
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: to their faces. I mean, if they continue in this,

1519
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 1: they will actually reach the point where it will become

1520
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 1: irrational for us to defend them. So they need to stop.

1521
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,240
Speaker 1: And I tell them that all the time in very

1522
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: blunt terms. Secondly, though, if what I'm saying is true,

1523
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: which is that we would defend Taiwan for our own interest,

1524
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,679
Speaker 1: not for theirs, that's ultimately a secondary point. It matters

1525
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: because it matters about how much they can contribute to

1526
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 1: the fight, and thus how much cost and risk we

1527
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 1: have to incur. Well, frankly, we're not doing it for

1528
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 1: the Taiwanese benefit. And one of the things I say

1529
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: to the taiwan Is is we may defend you, but

1530
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: we may defend you in ways you don't like. During

1531
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:51,560
Speaker 1: the Cold War, we told the West Germans, if you

1532
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 1: don't build up a real military, we'll wage your taxble

1533
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: nuclear war on your territory because we don't want to

1534
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,000
Speaker 1: let the Soviets dominate West Germany's too important. And that's

1535
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: the similar kind of model here. The taiwan should actually

1536
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 1: make sure they get get up and get you know,

1537
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: spend more, which they are doing, by the way, too slowly.

1538
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,800
Speaker 1: They are increasing but partially honestly to keep themselves out

1539
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: of being such a terrible battlefield. Because my view is

1540
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:13,640
Speaker 1: we may do things, you know, I mean, we're not

1541
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:15,640
Speaker 1: just going to like sign over Taiwana the Chinese and

1542
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 1: let them have TSMC and all these military capabilities. That

1543
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 1: would be crazy. So but you know, that's a lot

1544
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: of that's going to be in their hands. Patrick, I mean,

1545
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't want a new Cold war, and I certainly

1546
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 1: don't want a new hot war. What's your response to

1547
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: bridges argument here that effectively prepare it being ready for

1548
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 1: war is inevitable. We're on this collision course, so you

1549
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 1: may as well accept it now and put your chips

1550
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 1: on the table now. Well. I sympathize with the underlying

1551
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:45,599
Speaker 1: point that we're in the middle of now of an

1552
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: intense security competition that does post the risk of war.

1553
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,080
Speaker 1: On that risk of the war, both Bridge and I

1554
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 1: agree with is worth running ultimately because it's about something

1555
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 1: that Americans care about, which is their liberty. The issue

1556
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 1: of debate here is where and when to run that risk,

1557
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: And the difference between us is that I see Taiwan

1558
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: not just as one flash point amongst a number of

1559
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: potential flashpoints, not just as one domino amongst one dominant

1560
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 1: many dominoes, but as a singularly dangerous one, which is

1561
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 1: very different in the way Beijing season to say Philippines, Japan,

1562
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:20,440
Speaker 1: South Korea. Now to Bridges's point about counterbalancing and being prepared, absolutely,

1563
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: what America should do is not set back passively, but

1564
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 1: help other countries in the region do what they're already doing,

1565
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,720
Speaker 1: developing the ability to block and frustrate China's bid for

1566
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:34,280
Speaker 1: dominance recent initiatives such as missile proliferation or August, but

1567
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 1: also litigation about territorial disputes, to make sure that it's

1568
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 1: as difficult as possible for any power to actually run

1569
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 1: the table and dominate the region. But it does matter

1570
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: where and when the US takes the risk. It mattered

1571
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 1: during the Cold War, where and when the US took

1572
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 1: the risk. Yeah, I think you guys both make important points.

1573
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that we wanted to highlight

1574
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: here on the show for a long time. We're going

1575
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 1: to have links down the description for both of the

1576
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:00,479
Speaker 1: articles that you guys wrote. And I really appreciate you

1577
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 1: guys making it work. Thank you, Thank you gentlemen. Pleasure,

1578
01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 1: thank you much. Absolutely okay, guys, and we're really glad

1579
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:07,559
Speaker 1: that we were able to fit the guests in. At

1580
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 1: the top, we had some catastrophic technical problems. I was like,

1581
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: I don't think this is going to work, but that's

1582
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:13,600
Speaker 1: what we do here at breaking points. So thank you

1583
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: very much to our technical team. But we have a

1584
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 1: little bit of an announcement for the holiday season. We

1585
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 1: wanted to say, yeah, So we were thinking about how

1586
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 1: we could give back during the holiday season. And as

1587
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 1: you guys know, labor movement really important to us here

1588
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 1: and we've been tracking these all these different strikes over

1589
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:31,559
Speaker 1: a number of months, and I think maybe the longest

1590
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: running strike at this point is the Warrior Met Coal miners,

1591
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:39,679
Speaker 1: and those folks have been out for months and months

1592
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 1: doing battle not just with Warrior met Coal, but with

1593
01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:46,799
Speaker 1: the private equity barons who now de facto own that company.

1594
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 1: They are not asking for much. All they want is

1595
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 1: their wages to be what they were back in twenty sixteen,

1596
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,599
Speaker 1: and they have been out of work for months trying

1597
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,559
Speaker 1: to demand the very basics of what would be fair

1598
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 1: in this situation. So in order to support them in

1599
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 1: a holiday season, I mean, they have kids, they have

1600
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 1: medical bills. They have a lot of things that are

1601
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: going on that makes this a very tough time of year.

1602
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 1: We wanted here at Breaking Points. We're going to contribute

1603
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars to their strike fund to help

1604
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 1: to support them, and we'd really like to encourage you all,

1605
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 1: the Breaking Points audience to support their strike fund as well.

1606
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 1: We're going to put the link down in the description box.

1607
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 1: We'll be talking about this, you know, throughout the remainder

1608
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 1: of the year, encouraging you all to give and to

1609
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 1: support them because again, their battle sometimes because it's so longgoing,

1610
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: because it's all the way down in Alabama, for a

1611
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,760
Speaker 1: variety of reasons, they end up getting ignored. But they

1612
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 1: have been so courageous. Remember there were there was violence

1613
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 1: from the boss, people getting hit by cars, the court

1614
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 1: system issuing an injunction to keep them from picketing. They

1615
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,599
Speaker 1: have just had the deck stacked so aggressively against them.

1616
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 1: So we want to shine a light on them, want

1617
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:01,800
Speaker 1: to lift them up during the holiday season as much

1618
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 1: as we can. There's gonna be linked down their description

1619
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: as always. If you can support us, become a premium

1620
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:07,639
Speaker 1: member today. But enough of that, Enjoy the holiday season.

1621
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 1: I hope you guys like the decor. It's not just

1622
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,640
Speaker 1: about celebration, it's about getting back as well. Thank you

1623
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:13,839
Speaker 1: for supporting our work so we can support the Warrior

1624
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 1: met Cole Striking miners as well. And we will see

1625
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: you guys later. Love you guys, have a good one