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Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great

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Speaker 1: when you get a sponsor that you already use. And

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Speaker 1: guess what. Quint's is something that in the Todd household

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Speaker 1: we already go to. Why do we go to Quint's

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Speaker 1: Because it's a place you go where you can get

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Speaker 1: some really nice clothes without the really expensive prices. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things I've been going through is I've

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Speaker 1: transitioned from being mister cot and ty guy to wanting

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Speaker 1: a little more casual but to look nice doing it.

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Speaker 1: Is I've become mister quarter zip guy. Well guess what.

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Speaker 1: Guess who's got amazing amounts of quarter zips? It is Quints.

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Speaker 1: I have gotten quite a few already from there. The

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Speaker 1: stuff's really nice. They have Mongolian cashmere sweaters for fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't

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Speaker 1: normally get that for fifty bucks or less. Italian wool

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Speaker 1: coats that look and feel like designer the stuff. I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest, right, you look at it online, you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when

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Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I

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Speaker 1: take it to my dry cleaner so I don't screw

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Speaker 1: it up when I clean it. But I've been quite impressed.

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Speaker 1: In Hey, it's holiday season. It is impossible to shop

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Speaker 1: for us middle aged men. I know this well. Tell

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Speaker 1: your kids, tell your spouses, tell your partners. Try Quints,

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Speaker 1: your adult child, what to get your mom or dad,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're gonna find something that is going

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Speaker 1: to be comfortable for them on Quints. So get your

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Speaker 1: wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quints. Don't wait.

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Speaker 1: Go to quins dot com slash chuck for free shipping

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Speaker 1: on your order and three hundred and sixty five day

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Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck, free shipping and three hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty five day returns quints dot com slash chuck. Use

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Speaker 1: that code. Hello there, I'm Chuck Todd. Welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of the Chuck Podcast. Let's just say, in my

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Speaker 1: personal sports fandom, I experienced the old wide world of sports,

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Speaker 1: full of victory, agne, agony of defeat, all in the

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Speaker 1: same day. The thrill of Miami's victory. I will tell

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Speaker 1: you more at the U during my college football update

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Speaker 1: and get into the details. My picks, my my nit picks.

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Speaker 1: I have plenty of them, particularly in the Miami offense.

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Speaker 1: But there are some observations on that game that if

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Speaker 1: you weren't there, you don't fully appreciate the game, and

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Speaker 1: you're probably are stupidly believing Ohio State's gonna blow Miami

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Speaker 1: out because that ain't gonna happen that, I will guarantee you,

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Speaker 1: but I will explain when I get to that. But

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Speaker 1: of course the agony of defeat was the most bizarre.

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Speaker 1: If you know, when you do all these, you know,

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Speaker 1: the dumbest thing that has been added to televised sports

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Speaker 1: is the so and so and so team as a

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Speaker 1: ninety seven percent chance to win. Well, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: to quote Hans Solo, don't ever give me the odds,

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Speaker 1: you know, type of thing, because that is not why

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Speaker 1: any of us watch sports. All right. Yes, there's a

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Speaker 1: handful of gamblers that may watch sports just to make

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Speaker 1: sure they have bet the odds correctly, but most of

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Speaker 1: the time we watch sports for the improbable, not the probable,

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Speaker 1: and so those stats are sort of weirdly annoying. All

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Speaker 1: that set the fact that the Bears were down ten

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Speaker 1: at the two minute warning, had to make a field

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Speaker 1: goal and swirling win recovering on sidekick, and then they

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Speaker 1: stupidly don't go for two on the time on the

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Speaker 1: touchdown and play for overtime. It worked out for them,

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Speaker 1: but it was one of the more shocking decisions because

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Speaker 1: it kept the Packers back into that game. But it's

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Speaker 1: just at some point that except I am reminded of

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Speaker 1: myself that regular season NFL, no matter how important that

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Speaker 1: game is, pales in comparison to college football. You have

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Speaker 1: this kind of when you care this much about a

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Speaker 1: college football team, and anybody who's a college football fanatic,

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Speaker 1: remember fana is short for fanatic, You probably know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. But I will save the college football as

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Speaker 1: I always promise. For the end of the podcast, let

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Speaker 1: me give you the full rundown of what we got

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Speaker 1: here and what we got all week. This is a

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Speaker 1: holiday week. Instead of three downloads this week, there will

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Speaker 1: be two, although there'll actually be a third download, but

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Speaker 1: it'll be sort of a flashback, if you will. An

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Speaker 1: interview I did six a few months ago that we

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Speaker 1: think is especially relevant now. That will come later this week,

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Speaker 1: but I will have two new episodes this week, obviously

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Speaker 1: the one you're listening to right now. And my guest

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Speaker 1: is Lenn Caldwell. She's the chief Washington correspondent for PUCK.

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Speaker 1: She covers Capitol Hill as well as anybody that's out there,

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Speaker 1: and we do basically a little bit of a year

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Speaker 1: in review and a year in preview of Congress. This

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Speaker 1: was the year that Congress completely gave up its right

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Speaker 1: to governance. Apparently I'm being a tad snarky, but only

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Speaker 1: a tad right. We have seen, you know, Congress giving

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Speaker 1: up its power has been just like the Hemingway definition

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Speaker 1: of bankruptcy. First it's slowly, then it's quickly. Right, Congress

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Speaker 1: has been slowly giving away executive authority to presidents probably

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Speaker 1: for a good forty to fifty years, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you got one who decided they were

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Speaker 1: really going to exploit that, and then suddenly their power

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Speaker 1: was lost quickly. But it's an important conversation. We also

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Speaker 1: get in a little bit in twenty twenty six. Plus.

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Speaker 1: Leanne is just one of those friendly people. I've worked

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Speaker 1: with her at NBC over the years. I just enjoy

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Speaker 1: the way she reports, the way she analyzes things. And

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Speaker 1: I think, as many of you know, if I know

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Speaker 1: the person really well that I'm interviewing, I think it

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Speaker 1: only makes the conversation that much better. I also have

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Speaker 1: my toodcast time machine. We're going to We're not going

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Speaker 1: to go that far back. We're going to go back

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Speaker 1: to the very early nineties. And I'll just give you

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Speaker 1: one word clue. It's a pretty easy one if you're

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Speaker 1: of a certain age, peristroika, and we'll leave it at that.

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Speaker 1: I'll do a little Q and A. Let me get

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Speaker 1: into a few things here, obviously. Look, the most dominant

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Speaker 1: story of the weekend is for sort of one set

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Speaker 1: of political junkies. And I say one set because I

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Speaker 1: don't count my I believe I'm a political junkie. I

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Speaker 1: don't count myself consumed with the Epstein store. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I know the broad strokes of the Epstein story.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt there might be details that embarrass individuals,

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Speaker 1: but I think we know the broad strokes. What are

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Speaker 1: the broad strokes? Rich guy gets access because he's rich

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Speaker 1: and has a plane, and too many famous people who

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Speaker 1: want free rides. Too many politicians who want free plane

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Speaker 1: rides and big donor checks look the other way at

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Speaker 1: shitty character people. Okay, bottom line, we've seen this is

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Speaker 1: this is this goes back forever. If you've got enough money,

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Speaker 1: you can essentially bribe your way out of bad character traits.

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Speaker 1: That's really what we have here. Here's a rich guy

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Speaker 1: who used his wealth to pretend he had powerful friends

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Speaker 1: and famous celebrity people. And why did these celebrities and

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Speaker 1: powerful people get suckered into Epstein's world Because they're they're

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Speaker 1: consumed with their own celebrity, and they enjoyed sort of

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Speaker 1: the trappings of wealth, the trappings of exclusivity. And and

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Speaker 1: I'll keep going back free private plane rides. So it

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Speaker 1: is not to me, it is it is, it is not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not here to excuse anybody that is connected to

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Actually just the opposite. To me, it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like, great, it's an MRI. I'm gonna find out

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Speaker 1: who's high character, who's low character. And for me, your explanation.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the end of the day, you wanted

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Speaker 1: to hang out with the rich people, You wanted to

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Speaker 1: be in the celebrity. Anybody can be suckered into it.

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Speaker 1: It is a lot of fun. I've been to some

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Speaker 1: of these exclusive VIP opportunities at big events and sporting events.

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Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, it's pretty cool and all of

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Speaker 1: us I think, whenever we've had that brief moment of

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Speaker 1: access behind the velvet rope, it's really cool to be

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Speaker 1: behind the velvet rope. And then sometimes you get behind

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Speaker 1: the velvet rope and you think, why is there a

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Speaker 1: velvet rope here? Should there even be one at all?

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I am digressing, But what are we learning

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Speaker 1: from the Epstein files. Well, if you run the government,

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Speaker 1: you get to you know, and you decide you're going

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Speaker 1: to follow the law. And it looks like the the

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Speaker 1: Justice Department is, you know, going to follow the law

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Speaker 1: on their own pace. They didn't nothing in the law

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Speaker 1: said what order they had to release the files, and

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Speaker 1: they're taking advantage of this. Am I surprised. I don't

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Speaker 1: think any of us should be surprised that the first

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Speaker 1: tranche of files would be which was going to get

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Speaker 1: the most attention, would have the least amount of Trump

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Speaker 1: in it and the most amount of Bill Clinton in it. Right,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, it's like being shocked that there's

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Speaker 1: gambling going on. And if you need to know what

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Speaker 1: that reference is, just go watch the movie Costablanca. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, if I don't care how old you are,

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Speaker 1: go watch the movie Costablanca. First of all, it'll help

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Speaker 1: you understand half the references of your parents and grandparents

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Speaker 1: if you've never seen the movie. But second, it's a

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Speaker 1: really good movie. It's still a really good movie. It

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Speaker 1: holds up pretty well. Yes, I'm not going to get

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Speaker 1: into the parts about personal relationships, but the sort of

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Speaker 1: the larger concept of the film it holds up pretty well.

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Speaker 1: So go watch it so you can understand some of

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Speaker 1: these references. But the point is is that I don't

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Speaker 1: think we should be surprised that the Trump Justice Department

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Speaker 1: is if they feel as if there will eventually release

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that includes Trump, it will be probably

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Speaker 1: in as low of a profile day as you can

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Speaker 1: possibly have, and so I suspect will continue to see

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Speaker 1: the as whatever early stuff they can that they will

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Speaker 1: frontload anything that embarrasses Democrats and backload anything that embarrasses

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Speaker 1: Trump or any allies of Donald Trump. I say allies

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump because remember, they'll be Republicans early on

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Speaker 1: in this, but if they're not allies of Trump, they'll

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Speaker 1: have no problem trying to embarrass those folks. And of

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Speaker 1: course you do have the Democrats on the House Oversight

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Speaker 1: Committee who've been doing their own version of trickling out

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Speaker 1: sort of information that is, you know, emphasizes stuff that

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Speaker 1: makes Trump or people that Democrats don't like look bad,

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Speaker 1: like we saw with the David Brooks situation. David Brooks

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Speaker 1: gave an explanation saying it was the only time he'd

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Speaker 1: ever attended event with Epstein at it didn't quite know.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a plausible explanation. I think people you

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Speaker 1: look at a track record over time, right, being in

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Speaker 1: a room once with Jeffrey Epstein shouldn't be an indidable defense.

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Speaker 1: It's when you've consistently done it, when you knew that

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Speaker 1: there were questions about him, when you knew sort of

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Speaker 1: as Donald to use the words of Donald Trump, he

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Speaker 1: kind of likes them young. It's not as if this

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Speaker 1: was a hidden secret. But again, people look the other

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Speaker 1: way because he was rich and he was offering them

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Speaker 1: free playing riots. So I'm not surprised that what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing you shouldn't be surprised. And this is one of

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Speaker 1: those stories that if you really care about it, you're

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Speaker 1: going to find something in this release that reinforces your

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Speaker 1: view of all of it. And if you've noticed I

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Speaker 1: didn't say which that's the point. It will simply reinforce

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Speaker 1: your view of all of it. The question and is

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Speaker 1: one of the facts. There will be individual people whose

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Speaker 1: character I think correctly gets essentially demoted in polite society

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Speaker 1: by what we see and what and what we hear.

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Speaker 1: I am sorry, Here's what I hope the real fallout

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Speaker 1: is from this. Can we make character matter again? Do

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Speaker 1: we now see that character is destiny? That character does count?

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Speaker 1: Because you know, here we are obsessing over the Epstein

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Speaker 1: story sort of collectively is sort of in the in

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Speaker 1: the more populist media world. And I say populous, I

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Speaker 1: mean that the influencer culture in this or that, and

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Speaker 1: certainly mainstream media and the in the fight for clicks,

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Speaker 1: in the in the gaming of algorithmic media. Epstein is

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Speaker 1: this sort of you know, sticky story that people want

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Speaker 1: to get to trust. How do I know it's I

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Speaker 1: always know? How do I know it's sticky? When I'm

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Speaker 1: with family and people who are who I don't consider

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Speaker 1: huge political junkies ask me about certain stories. This is

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Speaker 1: one that they're asking me about. By the way, speaking

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Speaker 1: of that, I had a friend of mine the other

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Speaker 1: day during the during the earlier part of the week,

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Speaker 1: asked me, this is an old, old friend of mine.

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Speaker 1: Did Trump really pave over the rose Guard? And he

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Speaker 1: is not And this is my friend is not a

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Speaker 1: huge political junkie. I mean, he's got a great life,

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Speaker 1: runs a uh he's been sort of runs a car

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Speaker 1: dealership and just lives it. Lives a different life, doesn't

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Speaker 1: is it consumed by politics, right, but is smart and

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Speaker 1: follows current events and sort of pays attention, don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong, But doesn't sit here and pay attention to

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Speaker 1: some of these things. And you know, it's like the

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Speaker 1: rose Garden thing. You know, some of you that are

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Speaker 1: probably listening to this podcast, Oh, I knew he paved

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Speaker 1: over the rose Guard. Yes, because you're kind of into it, right,

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Speaker 1: you've chosen to subscribe to my podcast. You're kind of

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Speaker 1: into politics. But it was a reminder of how much

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Speaker 1: of this sort of ridiculous stuff Trump has done that

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Speaker 1: people haven't noticed or perhaps didn't really believe right. You think,

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Speaker 1: no way he paved over the rose garden. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: he paved over the rose garden. He turned he turned

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Speaker 1: out the area outside the Oval office into some sort

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Speaker 1: of nineteen fifties era of Florida patio. I think the

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Speaker 1: only thing missing is a tazzo and the umbrellas. But

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Speaker 1: other than that, that's what he's done. You know. Look,

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Speaker 1: I've grown up in Florida, spending a lot of time

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Speaker 1: in Texas. I love me a good patio bar, don't

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Speaker 1: get me wrong, But I don't think anybody wanted the

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Speaker 1: White House turned into a patio bar, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of what he turned the Rose Garden into. But it

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Speaker 1: was such an incredible reminder about what doesn't penetrate, what

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Speaker 1: doesn't break through. So Epstein breaks through. You know what

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Speaker 1: didn't break through this week was a story about public health.

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Speaker 1: So I, as you know, a few months ago, I

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Speaker 1: was very focused almost week to week about all the

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Speaker 1: damage that I believed Robert F. Kennedy Junior was doing

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Speaker 1: to the nation's health, putting our children in harm's way.

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Speaker 1: And now we have sort of, we do have a

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Speaker 1: pretty good report that puts it to it. And Peter

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Speaker 1: Odez who's one of the world's leading epandemiologists. He is

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Speaker 1: somebody that was a frequent expert I used during our

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Speaker 1: COVID coverage back in the NBC days. Just he's a

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Speaker 1: scientist first, Okay, Now he's an outspoken scientist. He really

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Speaker 1: bothers him when you have people not using science in

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Speaker 1: order to persuade or gas like or mislead the public.

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Speaker 1: And one of his tweets caught my eye where he

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Speaker 1: talked about so the HHETS put out a put out

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Speaker 1: a tweet if you will, that said, let me quote

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Speaker 1: it accurately. So HHS puts out awe that says you

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Speaker 1: are biggest MAHA wins this year. And Peter Otez said,

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Speaker 1: biggest Maha wins. Hey measles returned after twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: whooping cough is back. The National Pandemic Preparedness canceled along

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Speaker 1: with mRNA technology. America's children are now at risk for

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Speaker 1: chronic appatitis and liver cancer, a swing and a miss

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Speaker 1: on autism, and the CDC is in tatters. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you're a proponent of Bobby Kennedy here junior on this stuff,

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Speaker 1: if you are a vaccine skeptic, you may think Peter

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Speaker 1: Otez is the devil, and you may think, oh, he

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Speaker 1: is spinning and he is this or that. But the

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Speaker 1: fact of the matter is what he said is backed

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Speaker 1: up by facts, and what HHS has done is not.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with the extraordinarily alarming numbers. And this

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Speaker 1: to me is nine thousand times more important than the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files. And I'm not trying to belittle the victims here,

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Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, what this is

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Speaker 1: administration is doing to our children in the area of

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Speaker 1: public health should alarm folks. So we have now two

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Speaker 1: thousand confirmed cases of measles in the United States. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're on the verge of losing our measles free status

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Speaker 1: that we've held since two thousand and it's not just

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Speaker 1: whooping cough, which is a brutal respiratory infection and those

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Speaker 1: of us are a certain age. We never thought we

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Speaker 1: were going to get whooping cough. Why because we had

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Speaker 1: a vaccine for it. We have a vaccine for it, okay,

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Speaker 1: and it is back with a vengeance. Now HHS will say, well,

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Speaker 1: this is the reason that measles and whooping cough are

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Speaker 1: back is because the public doesn't trust public health or

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Speaker 1: the CDC. Yes, because of what you've done to public

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Speaker 1: health in the CDC Bobby Kennedy, Judy said, well, the

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Speaker 1: public doesn't trust it. Yeah, because somebody who's completely uninformed,

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Speaker 1: who speaking of character as destiny, pretty much the lowest

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Speaker 1: character person you could put in office given his personal mean,

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Speaker 1: just think about the uncomfortable, gross and disgusting back and

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Speaker 1: forth between him and his digital paramour, Olivia Newsy and

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Speaker 1: that whole. Look. I did not want to get into

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Speaker 1: the Liz of Newsy business, but Kennedy sort of roll

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Speaker 1: in it. This is a creepy, seventy year old guy

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Speaker 1: who had his own really disturbing, disturbing relationship with one

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Speaker 1: of his wives that ended in her suicide. This is

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Speaker 1: a such a low character individual and he's doing all

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Speaker 1: of this. Look, the point is is that this stuff

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Speaker 1: it is. I bring it up because it is a

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Speaker 1: reminder why we should we should care about the character

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Speaker 1: of people that are in public offices, and character should

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Speaker 1: matter a lot. So, yes, there's a crisis of trust

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Speaker 1: when it comes to public health, all due to one

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Speaker 1: man and his crusader crazy and vengeance on the public

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Speaker 1: health entity. And it is Robert Kennedy Junior. The fact

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Speaker 1: that all of this uh is a whooping coffin measles

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Speaker 1: and we didn't we didn't have this at all. This

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Speaker 1: is made Look, there is one thing that collectively, both

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Speaker 1: the scientific community and those in the MAHA world are

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Speaker 1: giving them a little bit of credit, and that is

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Speaker 1: on the issue of food dies. Okay, Doctor Otes and

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Speaker 1: other mainstream medical people agree that the US has been

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Speaker 1: a bit of a wild West when it comes to

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Speaker 1: allowing certain food dies in our foods compared to Europe.

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Speaker 1: Europe much more, much stricter on this stuff, much more

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Speaker 1: careful on this stuff. By the way, I just noticed,

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with cheerios. They have a healthier version of

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Speaker 1: fruit loops, essentially gluten free food fruit loops, if you will.

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Speaker 1: And you could see that in the summer they had

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Speaker 1: food died. Now they don't. It's it's pale. They quote fruity.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't pop out of the bowl. But that's okay,

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Speaker 1: tastes great. I like it. It's one of my guilty

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Speaker 1: pleasures at night. It's a version it deserved for me.

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Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

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Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen When my father passed away,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

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Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother, single mother, now widow, myself

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00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

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Speaker 1: pay for college? And lo and behold, my dad had

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Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

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Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

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Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

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Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment. Well,

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Speaker 1: guess what. That's why I am here to tell you

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Speaker 1: about Etho's life. They can provide you with peace of

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Speaker 1: mind knowing your family is protected even if the worst

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Speaker 1: getting life life insurance fast and easy, all designed to

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Speaker 1: You can get a quote in as little as ten minutes,

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Speaker 1: your home. You can get up to three million dollars

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Speaker 1: in coverage, and some policies start as low as two

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Speaker 1: dollars a day. That would be billed monthly. As of

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Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number

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Speaker 1: one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect

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Speaker 1: Ethos dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary and

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Speaker 1: the rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me,

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Speaker 1: life insurance is something you should really think about it,

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Speaker 1: especially if you've got a growing family. But while you

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Speaker 1: can give them credit for that, the fact that they

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Speaker 1: have not used take the issue of autism, saying that

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Speaker 1: the science doesn't prove that vaccines don't cause autism. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but what science proves that it could be. There's been

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Speaker 1: no study that is said vaccines trigger autism. So because

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Speaker 1: you've yet to find a study that does it and doesn't,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that it isn't scientifically proven yet that it.

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Speaker 1: You see, this is how gaslighting works, right, They sort

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Speaker 1: of makes your mind go wait, what, wait, what the

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Speaker 1: fact of matters? No scientific study backs up the idea

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Speaker 1: that vaccines cause autism, and so then they change it.

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Speaker 1: But no scientific study backs up the idea that there's

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Speaker 1: an open question about it. There's only an open question

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Speaker 1: about it from people who just refuse to look at

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Speaker 1: the science. The scientific answers have said one thing and

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Speaker 1: then getting rid of mRNA technology. And this goes back

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Speaker 1: to what was messaging on the COVID vaccine. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I just did a media hit the other day for

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Speaker 1: a for a for a smaller news organization that was

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Speaker 1: asking me, well, didn't the media contribute to the public's

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Speaker 1: mistrup distrust of public health? You know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: the person is wrong. There was a there were too

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Speaker 1: many people who touted the vaccine as a cure for COVID,

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Speaker 1: touted the vaccine as a shield for COVID. What the

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Speaker 1: vaccine was and what, for instance, what I always emphasized

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Speaker 1: at my coverage of it, what every expert I would

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Speaker 1: be very careful in particular about asking the following question,

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Speaker 1: Does this prevent you from getting COVID? No? But it does.

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Speaker 1: Is it increases the likelihood that it is you get

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Speaker 1: over COVID faster, you're less likely to be hospitalized, which

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Speaker 1: means you're less likely to pass it on. It never

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Speaker 1: said it was a zero, And so what happened was

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Speaker 1: a few people sort of in characterizing it, well, do

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Speaker 1: you know this is going to go away? This is

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Speaker 1: the way to shield yourself. Look, it was a protection, right,

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Speaker 1: It's a ninety eight point six percent type of protection, right,

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't one hundred percent. It wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: prevent you from getting COVID. It was going to prevent

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Speaker 1: you from having COVID kill you. There is a huge difference.

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Speaker 1: It's more like the flu vaccine and how it was

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Speaker 1: how it was communicated, how it was communicated between experts,

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Speaker 1: those of us in the media, back to you interpret it.

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Speaker 1: And so what happened is you had people who exploited

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Speaker 1: the and say, aha, you said there'd be no more

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Speaker 1: COVID cases and I still got COVID. This vaccine doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And that stuff went like wildfire. And this is what

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Speaker 1: is really sort of given mRNA vaccines a bad name

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Speaker 1: when it is a technological marvel. And if we cut

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Speaker 1: why would we cut funding? Why would you cut funding

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Speaker 1: on a cutting edge to technology. I understand if you

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Speaker 1: want to increase scrutiny of the research that comes out

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Speaker 1: of this, but why would you cut the funding and

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Speaker 1: allow other countries. We're the United States of America. We're

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Speaker 1: the first country in first world. Why would we intentionally

428
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: put ourselves behind on science? Intentionally put us Again, nobody

429
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: is saying you just take it as you go. If

430
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: you want to increase scrutiny of mRNA vaccines, be my guest. Okay,

431
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: that is helpful to everybody. But you just cut funding

432
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: is cutting off your nose's space. It's almost like you

433
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: don't want to hear of the great breakthroughs that mRNA

434
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: vaccines might be able to create. So it is it

435
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: is when you see stories like what we see. We're

436
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: really one of the most devastating parts of the Trump

437
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: administration this year, all right, is been in the area

438
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 1: of public health. And yet this is sort of like

439
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: it's always kind of a sidebar conversation. It is never

440
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: and I think part of it is you've got plenty

441
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: of people who are uncomfortable with the technical aspects of

442
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 1: the debate. Don't want to get caught. Trust me, I'm

443
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: always constantly trying to make sure I'm saying these things correctly.

444
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: So I think people hesitate to jump into this debate

445
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: too much because of the technical aspect of it. They

446
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: don't want to say something that makes them look stupid.

447
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: But the fact is, let's just look at the results.

448
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: And ever since Bobby Kennedy Junior essentially became the face

449
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: of public health, fewer people are getting the viseels vaccine.

450
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: We're now going to have fewer people getting a hepatitis

451
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: be vaccine, Fewer people are getting a whooping cop vaccine.

452
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: He is mainstreaming fringe ideas, fringe beliefs, fringe thoughts about

453
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: science that are just not backed up by actual facts

454
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: and figures, and it is putting kids in harms way,

455
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: and ultimately, I will believe this is a suburban nightmare.

456
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: I think this is an underrated political issue, and I

457
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: think it's one. I think it's one that Republicans, particularly

458
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: in Capitol Hill, ought to be a bit more mindful

459
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: of speaking of things that I think are sort of

460
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: a weird moment, and I wanted to I wanted to

461
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: talk about this a minute because speaking like the Epstein Files,

462
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: there's another story that I just don't quite care about

463
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: or get my arms about, but I feel like I

464
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: have to care about it because I cover politics, and

465
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: that is this dust up within the world of Maga

466
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: between Candace Owens, Ben Shapiro, Barry Wise, Megan Kelly, all

467
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: of this. You know, if you're if you know, you know,

468
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: but if you don't, you don't. And I consider myself

469
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: somebody who really doesn't know, but I have to know,

470
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: so I do my best to follow it pretty closely

471
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: to try to understand it. But what you're really seeing,

472
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: and I think the best is sort of what we're

473
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: watching because a lot of elected Republicans care a lot

474
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: about what Tucker Carlson is saying, what Candace Owens is saying,

475
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: or what Megan Kelly is saying, or some folks that

476
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: are really kind of fringe people to sort of normal Americans, right,

477
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: the folks that are not obsessed with politics every day.

478
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: In fact, these are people that have no name. ID

479
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: was sort of the broad swath of normal voters. Right.

480
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: Maybe they've heard of Tucker Carlson, but Candace Owens, who's that, right?

481
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: They may remember Megan Kelly from from mainstream media days.

482
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, Oh, they've seen some things about him, you know,

483
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: maybe Barry Wiss now, but it's sort of these aren't

484
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: sort of well known figures to sort of a broad

485
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: swath of the middle. I know this because unlike the

486
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: story like Epstein, which did penetrate. You know, this story

487
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: really hasn't penetrated. But I've had a few people try

488
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: to like, what is this mess? Can you explain this?

489
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: Candase owns and all this stuff? And I think the

490
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: best way to think about it is that the maga

491
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: influencer infighting that we're seeing right now is actually very

492
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: similar to sort of the relationship between the Democratic Party,

493
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: say twenty fourteen to twenty twenty two, to the groups,

494
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: where it felt like the party was more captured by

495
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: the groups. So if you look at sort of twenty

496
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: fourteen to twenty twenty two Democrats went through, you might

497
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: call it a great awokening. Right the woke movement started

498
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: to take off, and it appears to be a mirror

499
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: image of what we're seeing in maga world right now,

500
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: and especially in Republicans right. They're very striking when you

501
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: compare the groups on the left to the influencers on

502
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: the right and how they've hijacked the conversation away from

503
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: the average voter and sort of the same thing that

504
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: helped Republicans paint Democrats as sort of man. They're consumed

505
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: with the groups. They don't really care about you. Well,

506
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: we're now seeing Republicans are consumed with their influencers. Are

507
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: they really care about you? Right? So, from in twenty

508
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: fourteen to twenty twenty two, the Power Center and the

509
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: Democratic Party were these groups, right, they were the non

510
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: profits or the activist NGOs, the academic departments, you know,

511
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: always coming up, you know, with a new way to describe,

512
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: to describe a group of people as victims of something. Well,

513
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: in the right, that power Center is independent podcasters, it's

514
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: ex personalities, Twitter personalities, alternative media mobiles, right, like Megan Kellen.

515
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: And what were these groups trying to do. On the left, Well,

516
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: they were creating purity tests, right, if you didn't use

517
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: the latest terminology right, latin X right, that was a

518
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: creation of the groups, didn't come from the actual Latino community.

519
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: But if you didn't use it, well you weren't you

520
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: weren't awoke, you were problematic. Well, on the right, it's

521
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: sort of more. The test is if you don't believe

522
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: the latest conspiracy theory. You know, Candice Owans has one

523
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: and something to do with Egyptian airplanes stalking the Kirks

524
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: in some form or another. I mean, the point is

525
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: the more I articulated, the crazier it sounds. And you're like,

526
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: these people have influence. Yeah, they have influenced. If you're

527
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: not at least buying or just asking questions on the

528
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: latest conspiracy theory, then you're part of the controlled opposition.

529
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: You're bought and paid for, right, could be by the Jews, Right,

530
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: you're bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical companies. You're

531
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: bought and paid for by the deep state. But that's

532
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: sort of how right that's that's in the same way,

533
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, these groups sort of shamed Democrats and what

534
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: they were doing. Oh you're you know, you're you're you're

535
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: not woke, you don't really care. It's a similar type

536
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: of shaming. So what happened, Well, for about ten years,

537
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: Democratic politicians were petrified of their own activist space. They

538
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: were petrified of pissing off the groups so that they

539
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: would back off certain policy solutions because well, of the

540
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: groups won't like that one, even if it was going

541
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: to be more popular or actually have a better chance

542
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: of passing. Well, now what you have with these crazy

543
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: maga influencers. Republican politicians are terrified of their influencer base

544
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: and it leads them to entertain some fringe theories that

545
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be entertaining and what normal voters find bizarre. So,

546
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting the right is currently late to

547
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: the party, I guess you could say in terms of

548
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: institutional capture, right, because for a long time, the Republican

549
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: Party was a top down organization. The RNC, Fox News,

550
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: maybe Heritage Foundation a the structures completely change, right, There's

551
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: no more referee on the right anymore. In the Obama era,

552
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: the democratic referees were the activists, some of them were

553
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: in the media, some of them weren't on the right.

554
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: Fox News was based on the referee. Now, if Fox

555
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: says something that the base doesn't like, the base just

556
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: switches to crazy right Tucker Carlson's network, Candice owns YouTube,

557
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, maybe oan or something like that. And there's

558
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: sort of an incentive for like to find new weird

559
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: ways to capture the imaginations. Right, So democratic groups were

560
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: incentivized to find new forms of systemic oppression to stay relevant. Well,

561
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: right wing influencers are incentivized to find new conspiracies or

562
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: hidden truth to keep their subscribers paying. If you just

563
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: talk about marginal tax rates, you're not going to get

564
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: five million views. But if you talk about assassination plots

565
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: and Egyptian airplanes following mega influencers around, hey, guess what

566
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: you might be able to get five million people. And

567
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: then try to explain this though to the normal voters

568
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: right who haven't woke on the left or red pilled

569
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: on the right. So it did seem as if for

570
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: gave way too many Democratic politicians essentially subcontracted their brain,

571
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: if you will, to activist groups. Instead of talking to

572
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: a plumber in Ohio, right, they talk to the head

573
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: of a racial justice and Goo in DC to find out,

574
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: quote what voters wanted. Well, on the right, Republican politicians

575
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: are subcontracting their brain to influencers, and instead of talking

576
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: to a small business owner in Florida, they look at

577
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: what Charlie Kirker Nick Flunt's is. You know, what's something

578
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: that about Charlie Kirk or Erica Kirk or Nick Fluntes

579
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: is on X to decide what their base may care about.

580
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: They've convinced themselves that the act somehow their actual political

581
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: base cares about what some of these fringe figures think.

582
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: You know, and there may be a handful of grasstops.

583
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: But this gets to the feedback loop, right, And the

584
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: fact is the activists know how to make the politicians

585
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: seem as if they're hearing from the public when they're

586
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: really not. They're hearing from organized campaigns, either out rhythms

587
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: or paid or or some sort of paid campaign of sorts.

588
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: And I have to be honest, there's a whole vacuum

589
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: here now. And I think in the same way that

590
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: I think that, I think the democratic attachment to the

591
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: groups is breaking. It's not broken yet, but I think

592
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: they're getting They're sobering up here, and you're seeing more

593
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: Democrats behave a lot more independently, think a little more independently.

594
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if we see that right right now.

595
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: On the right, they seem to still be a bit consumed.

596
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: What does Trump think? A bit consumed what these influencers

597
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: think first, rather than actually just talking to their voters first.

598
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: On that side, and in that sense, it's a form

599
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: of audience capture, right, And it's pretty clear I think

600
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: Democrats for about a decade were captured by this wolk left.

601
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 1: You saw it in the governance of the first half

602
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: of the Biden four years, particularly with how they handled

603
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: the board that was done by groups, that was done

604
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: so they didn't offend the groups rather than just solving

605
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: the problem and moving on. They eventually figured out that

606
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: the groups were wrong about this, but they didn't start

607
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: that process on the border until about the last year

608
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: eighteen months of the Biden presidency. At this point, I

609
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: think the rights captured by this crazy right. They're sort

610
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: of so consumed they've sort of forgotten the plot. And

611
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: that's the only reason to pay any attention to what

612
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: appears to be some sort of circle circular firing squad here.

613
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: I don't even know who stands where anymore between your Candaewans,

614
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: your Tucker Carlsons, Berry Weiss As you're making Kelly's, you know,

615
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: the shots across the bars. There's accusations of anti Semitism here.

616
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: I think there's some real issues there, don't get me wrong,

617
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: But it's a It's what it really is. It's just

618
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: a battle for attention. It's a battle for clicks. So

619
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: to me, the main players that I'm all talking about here,

620
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: I don't think any of them are very honest. I

621
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: think they just simply care about their grift. They care

622
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: about exploiting the moment for maximum financial gain, whether they're

623
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: part of an independent podcasting network that they've developed because

624
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: they're refugees from what was a more mainstream version of

625
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: media that they were in part of, think Tucker Carlson,

626
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: Megan Kelly, or they just want this relevance and they

627
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: don't like it that Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson from

628
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: mainstream media are taken there and they're going, oh, yeah,

629
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: well we can go crazier than Candas owns. So it's

630
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: a I do think it's it's the only reason to

631
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: pay attention to it is that it is I think,

632
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: really putting Republicans, you know, sort of the average elected

633
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: republic can they they are they're way too consumed with

634
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: what they're input This is exactly like what happened on

635
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: the left. The left got so consumed about the group's

636
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: think they stop worrying about what voters think. Well, we

637
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: now have elected Republicans so consumed about what their influencers

638
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: think that they've actually forgotten about the voters. And I

639
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: think that this is something that could you know, could

640
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: end up becoming yet in especially when when the economy

641
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: is not good, especially when there's job displacement with AI.

642
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: Instead of focusing on those problems, they've been obsessed with this,

643
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: right you can. It's it goes back to the infamous

644
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: ad that worked against Kamala Harris. She's for they them,

645
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: he's for you. Well, in this case, these republic elected

646
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: Republicans seem to care more about they them on their

647
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: influencer side than the rest of us in the actual

648
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: voting electric. All right, with that, I will sneak in

649
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: a break. As you see, I didn't even get to

650
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: the whole Kennedy Center business. And I'll tell you why,

651
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: because you know, this is this is Trump's brilliance with

652
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: his buffoonery, which is, you know, if you if you

653
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: sort of over index and complain too much, you put

654
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: his name on a building and it's on an arts building,

655
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: or it's on the institute a piece. Is this really

656
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: a big deal? You know, don't take your eye off

657
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: the ball with the voters. Look, you know, but at

658
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: the same time, the guy's more obsessed with manufacturing a

659
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: legacy that is going to get a eras the second

660
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: he dies, rather than worrying about lowering the cost of

661
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: groceries for you. So look, I happen to think all this,

662
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: everything that's been done, all of that, none of it

663
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: is good politics for him, and all of it is

664
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: just going to accumulate. It is. It is one of

665
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: those things. This is incremental and I'm going to just

666
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: go beat up the same metaphor I use quite a bit.

667
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: It is it is. This is happening slowly until it

668
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: ends up happening quickly. And we're seeing this slow build

669
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: of a movement that is about to come is going.

670
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: When it crashes, it's going to crash hard, and it's

671
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: going to seem like it happened quickly. But we're in

672
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: the middle of seeing a lot of it. Whether it's

673
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: the influencers becoming their own version of a woke right

674
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: and basically making elected Republicans way out of touch with

675
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: the average person. Right, that's happening. You've got Trump so

676
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: consumed with his own ego that he has stopped worrying

677
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 1: about being a populist for the people that he said

678
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: we're the forgotten men and women of America. He apparently

679
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: has forgotten them when he thinks about life at the

680
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: Kennedy Center. All of this is accumulating, and it may

681
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: look slow and it's a drip here and a drip there,

682
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it's going to be

683
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: an avalanche. All right, let me sneak in a break

684
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: when we come back. My conversation with my good friend

685
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,680
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696
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Speaker 1: for thirty percent off. Well, joining me now for a

710
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: little end of the year, Where the hell is Congress headed?

711
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: Next is a good conversation with my friendly and Caldwell.

712
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: She's the chief Washington correspondent for Puck, which is more

713
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: and more becoming a must read these days. Puck one

714
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: of my Yeah, it's one of my look in this

715
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: day and age of independent you know where we have

716
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people questioning corporate owned media, shareholder controlled media,

717
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: all of that nonsense. Independent owned news operations, I think

718
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: are should be having a moment, and let's just say

719
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: Puck's having a moment. Join it.

720
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: I love it. It's great. Actually, it's a good place

721
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 2: to work. I get to cover what I want to cover. No, yeah,

722
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: it's it's great. It's I don't really have You've been.

723
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: At the Washington Post at NBC. Right. It doesn't get

724
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: more mainstream media than that. You and I got to

725
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: know each other at NBC.

726
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 2: You hired me at NBC.

727
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: I hired Well. I wasn't going to be so presumptuous,

728
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: but I'd like to think I had good judgment here.

729
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: What how do you answer the question of, Hey, what's

730
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 1: the difference between LeAnn called Well the reporter for PUCK

731
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: and Leanne called Well the reporter for NBC and the

732
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: Washington Post. How do you answer that question?

733
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, that's said. No one's actually asked me

734
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: that question in that way. I would say, there is

735
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: not actually a lot of difference in my and how

736
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: I approach my job. But specifically, I still covering the Hill,

737
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: still covering politics. I think what is different is that

738
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: I have changed my focus completely away from the incremental,

739
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: and I now think more deeply about the impacts of

740
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 2: what's happening on the Hill. I think about the big

741
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: picture a lot more, and I really get to lean

742
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: into kind of the conversations that are happening behind the

743
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: scenes instead of what everyone is just saying publicly. You know,

744
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: So I think that rather than my approach, it's more

745
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 2: kind of the angle that's different.

746
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I sort of answer it very similarly. I'll say,

747
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, look it, I don't have to worry about

748
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 1: the busy work of Washington reporting. And what do we

749
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: mean by the busy work of art? Look what you

750
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: just describe as incrementalism, like what time is this briefing

751
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: going to be? Is this going to happen the next

752
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 1: tomorrow or the next day? All important information that major

753
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: news organizations it might be planning planning specials around it,

754
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: or planning coverage or trying to These are all important

755
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: things that you know, people didn't really understand that part

756
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: of our job is when I was chief White House correspondent,

757
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: I felt it a lot more there than I did

758
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: obviously meet the press. But which was and you certainly understood,

759
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: which was the amount of logistics and operational information we

760
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: had to spend our time gathering in order to help

761
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: and again, all necessary for the larger organization and I'm

762
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: not you know, oh the president, you know, take to

763
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: the presidential address. Well, suddenly I would have been working

764
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: with our executives. What are they looking for? What time?

765
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: How much are they asking for? And it's like suddenly

766
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 1: half my day is being chewed up by this logistical thing.

767
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: It's like it's like at home spending half your day

768
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: on hold with the cable company while you're trying to

769
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: figure out how you're getting you know, how they're going

770
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: to come over to fix something, to not have to

771
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: you know that was said, there are times that would

772
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: be thirty percent of your job, right.

773
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, yeah, yes, because you have to as you

774
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: well know, there's this production element that you have to

775
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 2: be that the network needs and so you know, and

776
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: my job as a reporter, of.

777
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: Course, you and I are questioning do they need it?

778
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: Like you know, the amount? I mean, I think that's

779
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: the thing. Like I mean, I didn't mean to cut

780
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: you off there, but it's like, yes, if you think

781
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: through if you think about the network through the prism,

782
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: the older prism, then yeah, it makes sense when you

783
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: think about how consumers get information, it made no sense.

784
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, that's that's an absolutely great point.

785
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: And also it's like, you know, from a reporter standpoint,

786
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: it was a lot of making sure you had what

787
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: someone else had, and so there was very little ability

788
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: to do original thought because it was always making sure

789
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: that everyone, every network or every outlet was in the

790
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: same place jaistically with the content.

791
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: And oh, well that's an important it's an important point.

792
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: Let me put a put a signpost on that wall.

793
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: Street Journal is reporting that there's going to be a

794
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: vote tomorrow on the ACA subsidies. Hey, Leanne, can you

795
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: go check that out? Is it tomorrow? Right? Like in

796
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: your life?

797
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 2: Can you confirm that?

798
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: Yes? And it's like yeah, and maybe in the maybe

799
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: confirming that information might get you another piece of information

800
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: that can't help your reporting. Don't get me wrong, Like

801
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: doing that was a totally useless exercise, you know, because

802
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: you were then suddenly all right, well maybe you know

803
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: what else can you tell me? And then suddenly you're like, oh, okay,

804
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: now I learned a little bit something else. But if

805
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 1: people wonder why the mainstream media sounds like group think,

806
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: well it's because all of our bosses are constantly asking

807
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: us could we're constantly asking us to confirm everybody else's stories,

808
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: and that would be kind of a circle jerk totally.

809
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I tell people, you know, when you

810
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: they ask a different version of the question you asked me.

811
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: No one at PUCK has ever said, can you confirm this? Like,

812
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 2: not once it's been It's amazing. I have spent zero

813
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: time confirming other people's reporting.

814
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about Congress this year. There are days

815
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: you think, oh my god, the sky is falling, and

816
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: there are days you're like, yeah, this is just another

817
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: day in the life at Congress, and you know this

818
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,439
Speaker 1: is is this your fifth year covering Capitol Hill?

819
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 2: No, oh my god, chak longer than that.

820
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: Everything, the time space time continuum is just done for me.

821
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: With Covidney right the day after Trump got elected first term.

822
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: So what's that?

823
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: So it's almost nine years, So you're nine years years

824
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: you've been covering the Hill nine years. I could sit

825
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: here and say you've covered a more dysfunctional version of

826
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: Congress than when I started covering Capitol Hill in nineteen

827
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: ninety three and ninety four going through there. And yet

828
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: there were veterans back then who'd say, oh, you have

829
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: no idea, you're covering a very This Gingrich era so dysfunctional.

830
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: Da da da da da. Right, like every there's always

831
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm mindful of the following fact everybody thinks they're time

832
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: covering Congress specifically, is that there's never been a time

833
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: like this, and there's truth to that, right that we

834
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: are sort of increasingly like out each Congress outdues the

835
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: previous one in its dysfunctionality. So you've done it nine years,

836
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: So you walk me through your nine years of dysfunctionality.

837
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 2: Well, let me just say I'm going to expand that

838
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 2: a little bit. A lot of people do blame the

839
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 2: Gingrich years for like going off the cliff. So I

840
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: guess you were there at the beginning of what people

841
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: now maybe it's revisal, but.

842
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 1: You know what the Gingrit's apologists would say, it started

843
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: with Jim Wright, and it started with the Democrats in

844
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: eighty six when they insisted on seating that's called it's

845
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: this fight called the Bloody Eighth Indiana's eighth congressional district.

846
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: A recount h indicated that the Republican one. The Democrats

847
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: didn't accept the recount, and they literally seeded the Democrat

848
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: even though the recount had so the point is is

849
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,479
Speaker 1: that it's just like the judiciary wars. It's Harry Reid's fault,

850
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: it's bitch McConnell's fault. Guess what, guys, you all, you

851
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: all broke it and you all have to pay the

852
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: pottery barn bill.

853
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So the past nine years during Trump, I guess,

854
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 2: you know, Trump and then Biden and then again now

855
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 2: it's just you know, first four years of Trump, the

856
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: story was what everyone how every Republican secretly hates Trump?

857
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: Like the story would always be, can you react to

858
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: whatever Trump tweeted? It was Twitter back then, or whatever

859
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: he said, and people would start to say, oh, I

860
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 2: didn't see it, you know, try to dodge, but it

861
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 2: was there was so little respect for the man, and

862
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: that was always the story. Now and this Trump era,

863
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 2: I almost feel like what people say about Trump behind

864
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: the scenes doesn't even matter because they are doing whatever

865
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 2: he wants publicly, handing away, you know, so much of

866
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: their congressional authority to Trump. Even if they don't like

867
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: it and they complain about it, they're doing it and

868
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 2: that's what matters, you know. The first Trump term, of course,

869
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: we went through an impeachment. All the investigations January sixth,

870
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 2: which I was there for. Uh, and that you know,

871
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 2: all of that has changed Congress so much, the lack

872
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: of trust between the parties. People just really don't like

873
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: each other, you know.

874
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: Of course, And it's no longer theater. It used to

875
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: be theater. Yeah, behind the scenes. Boy, let me tell you,

876
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: Tom Cole he gets along with everybody, and he may

877
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: still get along with everybody right by the way, for

878
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: what he's probably right. Everybody loves Tom Cole. You know,

879
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: he's too he doesn't know how to be mean, which

880
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, but for the most part you would hear

881
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: it seemed more theater than not. And now it seems real,

882
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 1: like this stuff's personal.

883
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 2: It feels yeah, it's it's very personal. And it's not

884
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 2: just at a member level too. The staffs don't really

885
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: like each other. And that's like another layer where the staffs,

886
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: you know, everyone kind of got the joke. And now,

887
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: for the most part, there are very few people who

888
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: hang Republicans who hang out with Democrats and vice versa. Yes,

889
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: there are some.

890
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,479
Speaker 1: Is that just is that a generational phenomenon. I've gotten

891
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: a sense that the younger congressional staffers are a bit

892
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: more are well, I mean they were, they were they'd

893
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: learned politics in the social media era, which is a

894
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: very which is to me, a very awful way to

895
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: have learned politics. But they they sort of believe that

896
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: their counterparts are what the social media caricature has created

897
00:53:59,040 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: of that is.

898
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, I think that. I think that there is

899
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 2: a lot of generational component to that. The people who

900
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: have been there for a very long time, you.

901
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: Know, still they know how to still like work with

902
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: the other side, or at least at least they know

903
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: somebody they can work with on the other side.

904
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 2: Ye sure, yeah, yeah, totally. And there's like the appropriators,

905
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 2: you know, they have to work with each other, et cetera.

906
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 2: But it's just, you know, January sixth did a lot

907
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: a lot of damage and it took years for it

908
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: to kind of get back to a base level. And

909
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: then now it's just I think that the Congress story is,

910
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 2: you know, how diminished of an institution will Congress be

911
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 2: by the end of Trump's first term? You know, I

912
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 2: always question what if Mike Johnson's legacy is, if that's

913
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 2: what it's going to be, if he's just going to

914
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: kind of hand over the keys to the capit all

915
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 2: to the President.

916
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: Well, it was interesting. We were you know, we have

917
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: gone through these fits and starts of strong speakers and

918
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: week speakers. Was a strong speaker, Tom Foley was a

919
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: week Jim Wright. Tom Jim Wright wanted to be a

920
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 1: strong speaker. It sort of got him out, It sort

921
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: of cost him the speakership. Fully was a week speaker.

922
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: Gingrich was a strong speaker. Then we had hasted extraordinarily

923
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: weak speaker. Very much more in the lines of the

924
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson, right, Uh, Pelosi brought strength again to the speakership,

925
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: and then it sort of was trying to encourage Bayner

926
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: wanted to be a strong speaker. He got thrown out

927
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: for being one. Right, Ryan wanted to try to you know,

928
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: he was trying to it sort of re establish the speakership.

929
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 1: It all, you know, it sort of arguably why he left.

930
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: Slash cost him his role. So I agree with you

931
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: on Johnson, but I don't know whether I mean, I

932
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: think he's going to go down as probably an even

933
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: weaker seaker than Dennis Haster. I think it's just saying something.

934
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I mean, especially how this Congress,

935
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: this session of this Congress ended up.

936
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: We're not and we're not done right, Like, I mean

937
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: this Congress, you know, this.

938
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 2: Year of this seat Congress. Yeah, right, and the last

939
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 2: week was tumultuous.

940
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: Well, and it's been tumultuous arguably for the last two months. Right.

941
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: There was that day where you had a party on

942
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: party crime, Right, you had the Democrats trying to censure

943
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 1: another Democrat. Republicans were met. I mean, it seemed I

944
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: was talking with Mike Turner the day after it happened,

945
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: and he goes, he said, the only thing missing were

946
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: the canes, you know, where they were just going to

947
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:50,439
Speaker 1: start like actually physically assaulting each other. But that, I mean,

948
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: the damage Johnson did to the Institution by keeping them

949
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: away during the government shutdown, I mean, that turned out

950
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: to be just a massive miscalculation by his part, wasn't it. Yeah.

951
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 2: I literally wrote the Institution irrelevant and it I was

952
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: shocked at the number of Republicans who were okay with it.

953
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: But it proved it. Yeah, it proved to be a

954
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: massive mistake. They are going to come out as being

955
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: extremely unproductive. They could have been working on other things.

956
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: They're way behind, and it just broke a lot of

957
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: trust within the party because one thing, a couple of

958
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: Republicans actually during that process had said to me that

959
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 2: one of the things that happens, especially like during a

960
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 2: government shutdown, and you know, the leaders aren't talking to

961
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 2: each other and everything stalemated. But then it's like, you know,

962
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 2: all the rank and files they're bored, and so they

963
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: start talking to each other and they're like, we're over this.

964
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 2: Let's not that they're bipartisan plan ever become reality, but

965
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: they're talking starts to put pressure on leaders, and he

966
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: completely eliminated that aspect of what legislators want to feel

967
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: is like they are having some sort of input or

968
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: say or impact, and he negated that entire underspoken element

969
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 2: of what the shutdown and what just kind of like

970
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: the day to day job is.

971
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: So, why do I think we are underplaying the possibility

972
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: of another shutdown in January? Why do we assume there

973
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: won't be one? It feels like to me all the

974
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: ingredients are there for another shutdown in January.

975
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 2: I think that based on my discussions with Democrats so far,

976
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: very preliminary, but they feel like they came out so

977
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 2: much on top of the last shutdown. They completely changed

978
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 2: the narrative to healthcare obviously an issue that they are

979
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 2: very comfortable with, and Republicans, as we see, cannot just

980
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: a mess yeah, not deal with and so the risk

981
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: of another shutdown the base might get mad, but the

982
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: risk of another shutdown could absolutely eliminate all of this

983
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: goodwill with voters that they have built up by fighting

984
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 2: quote fighting for health care.

985
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

986
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

987
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

988
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

989
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

990
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

991
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

992
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

993
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

994
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

995
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars. So,

996
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: with more than one thousand lawyers across the country, they

997
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

998
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, You need somebody to get your back.

999
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot Com, Slash podcast or

1000
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: now Pound Law, Pound five two nine law on your

1001
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same.

1002
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

1003
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: unless they win. Let me ask it this way, though,

1004
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: do they everything that they've gained by sounding the alarm

1005
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: about healthcare at the time? Right the whole though? You know,

1006
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: in theory, why did they Why did they instigate the

1007
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: shutdown to sound the alarm on healthcare subsidies? So if

1008
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: we still don't have if we have an alarming problem

1009
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: on healthcare skyrocketing, which they're going to be, and already

1010
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: being quoted on huge prices for people, how do you

1011
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: not do whatever it takes in January when there's an

1012
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: opportunity to essentially corner the Republican majority to get them.

1013
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: You know, the point is, do you just want the

1014
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: issue or do you want to put it, you know,

1015
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: force them to to deal with this problem? Now?

1016
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: I mean I think Democrats absolutely want the issue. It's

1017
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 2: good politics for them. You know, they would never say

1018
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: that or admit it, but they do know that the

1019
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 2: issue helps them. But there is actually some I think

1020
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 2: overly optimistic belief that there are some chances for some

1021
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 2: bipartisan agreement in January.

1022
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: I think something's coming. I do, well, this is a

1023
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: I think that is coming. But b I think you

1024
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: have to use the threat of a shutdown to.

1025
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 2: Get it done. Yeah, and I think that they, you know,

1026
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 2: maybe they go there. Like I said, it's it's early.

1027
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 2: They definitely do not want people to start, any of

1028
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: their members to start threatening a shutdown right now, because

1029
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: then they look like arsonists and and so you know,

1030
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 2: obviously it's very much it's very much a possibility. I personally,

1031
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: I don't think that they're going to do it. I

1032
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 2: think that they're too risk averse to do it.

1033
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: But I expected Trump to flip on this, and he hasn't.

1034
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: He's digging in and he dug in again last night,

1035
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: and it's like I, I, you know, there's a part

1036
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: of me that you know it sits there and says, well, yeah,

1037
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: I'd love to you. I would beat up the insurance

1038
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: companies too, like why do we want to give more money?

1039
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: But then my response, my follow up is what's the

1040
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: alternative system to insurance companies, mister president, right, Like, this

1041
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: is the problem the Republicans have. Well, we don't want

1042
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: to subsidize insurance companies. How else are we giving people healthcare?

1043
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, you're going to give the money to the

1044
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: people instead. But you still have to pay the insurance company.

1045
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: Right, like the people, right, not of it. Really, it

1046
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: feels like a great it feels good to say it.

1047
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: We're not going to give it directly to the insurance companies.

1048
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: We're going to give it to you to give directly

1049
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: to the insurance companies. I know.

1050
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 2: I was actually surprised too, because there's the populist strain

1051
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: in the Republican Party that Trump purportedly believes in which

1052
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 2: we all know he doesn't, that thinks that these Obamacare

1053
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 2: subsidies need to be extended at least for now, until

1054
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 2: there's another plan or whatever. You know. Josh Holly is

1055
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 2: one of those people who's really been pushing it, and

1056
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 2: I thought that he was going to give into but

1057
01:03:55,560 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 2: he did not, And I you know, and I'm.

1058
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: Just you know, it's his own polster telling everybody that

1059
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: this is a disaster in the making. Yeah, it's Tony

1060
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: Fabrizio that has been sounding this alarm, which is why

1061
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: I expected him to flip.

1062
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, no, I was gonna say, but I think

1063
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 2: that I'm only speculating here. But you know, I think

1064
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,919
Speaker 2: that a lot of it has to do with the

1065
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: fact that it is Obama Care, that there is a

1066
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: lot of disdain for anything Biden. I mean, his whole

1067
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 2: presidency so far has been undoing what Biden did, and

1068
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 2: he obviously hates Barack Obama and so not wanting to

1069
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 2: prop up something that his predecessor did, and like creating

1070
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 2: this healthcare system, and that that is a big that's

1071
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 2: a big issue on the Hill too. A lot of

1072
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 2: a reason I've been told by multiple Republicans that they

1073
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 2: were so resistant for extending these subsidies is because fifteen

1074
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 2: years ago they vowed to never do anything to support

1075
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 2: the Affordable Care Act, and that that stance from you know,

1076
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 2: almost two decades ago is staying with them now. So

1077
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: you could say, regardless of what the Affordable Care Act

1078
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 2: issue is, so there's some Republicans who will not do anything.

1079
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: So basically, while Donald Trump thinks everybody's got Trump arrangement syndrome,

1080
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: what you're saying is that there are a lot of

1081
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: Republicans who still have Obama derangement syndrome.

1082
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1083
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: That ultimately is the is the virus that has not

1084
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: been cured.

1085
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, and actually Josh Holly will say

1086
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 2: that on the record too. He'll say, look in these

1087
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 2: private meetings, closed door meetings with Senate Republicans, there are

1088
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 2: just people who are so dug in on anything anti

1089
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 2: Obamacare that they just won't even consider it.

1090
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: It really is such an intellect it's such an intellectual, intellectual,

1091
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 1: dishonest argument, right, because what Obamacare turned out to be

1092
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: was was essentially not government health care, but government support

1093
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: supporting a market based system that was essentially run by

1094
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: the private sector. Because what Democrats wanted to do they

1095
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: couldn't because the insurance companies made it clear that they

1096
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: were going to destroy any you know, they just you

1097
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: know what, Clinton tried to take the insurance companies out

1098
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: of this. Well, guess what, right? It just they lost

1099
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: that argument. And the irony is that this was a

1100
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 1: this was a Heritage Foundation idea that Mitt Romney put

1101
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: in the Massachusetts that Bama Obama ends up implementing. I mean,

1102
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: the anger that these Republicans have had an idea that

1103
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: was originally incubated at the Heritage Foundation when it was

1104
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: an actual conservative think tank, and not what it's turned

1105
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: into in the last year or two is is still

1106
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: like this this ironic pill that none of them seemed

1107
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: to want to want to admit to take and admit.

1108
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, because remember Obamacare the compromise is what Democrats wanted

1109
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 2: was a single payer plan and this is the best

1110
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 2: that they could get. They literally, like you said, and you.

1111
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: Know what Trump wants. What Trump has been advocating is

1112
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 1: a form of a single payer plan. Yeah, yeah, he

1113
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: actually had. Anytime he talks about it, it's the closest

1114
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, he comes to you know, it is it is.

1115
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: It is amazing to me how often that they messed

1116
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: this up, right, Like you know, look, Democrats seem to

1117
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: be allergic to border security, right, there is just some

1118
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: right you see it? You know, sometimes you're like, how

1119
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: is it that you guys don't see that the public

1120
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: is pro immigration, legal immigration, but wants some border security,

1121
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,479
Speaker 1: Like it's okay to lead with that. It's the same

1122
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: thing with Republicans and there it's there's something right, like

1123
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: both parties have this, and to me, these are the

1124
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: two issues that do the right where they don't think straight.

1125
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: They never think like the average person. They're so dug

1126
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: in on a specific piece of their you know, their

1127
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: rationale for obstructing on that issue that they can't acknowledge

1128
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 1: another part of this. You know.

1129
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a great This is an issue

1130
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: that is obviously confounded Republicans for decades. I mean, this

1131
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 2: is a hard issue. It took Democrats really. I mean,

1132
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, Hillary kink In, like you said, had her

1133
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 2: plan that didn't go anywhere.

1134
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: If you if you're going to let the private sector

1135
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: deal with healthcare, there, you know the system is going

1136
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,799
Speaker 1: to always look this gobbledly good. You know, we're allergic

1137
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: to government run stuff here, right, unless it's so security,

1138
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 1: unless it's better, you know, but it is, you know,

1139
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 1: they're all I am surprised that Trump didn't just expand

1140
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: Medicare and call it trump Care.

1141
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:53,680
Speaker 2: I know.

1142
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: I mean, he could have brought it down to fifty plus,

1143
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: said no to the subsidies, but brought that down to

1144
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,719
Speaker 1: fifty plus, letting people buy into Medicare at fifty years old,

1145
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: rather than the you know, you'd had Democrats supporting that idea.

1146
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean like there was a way for them to

1147
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: put their own Yeah, there's a way to put their

1148
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: own signature on this in a way that could you know,

1149
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: that would appease certain parts of the left absolutely, but

1150
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: would also make up for a more sensible system that

1151
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: actually business wouldn't hate.

1152
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 2: Well. And also that's why during the government shut down,

1153
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 2: Democrats I thought it was kind of lame at first

1154
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 2: or dumb at first that they were so focused on

1155
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 2: what Trump was saying and what Trump was going to do.

1156
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:44,480
Speaker 2: But I came to realize towards the end that Republicans

1157
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: couldn't do anything without Trump, and so they put all

1158
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: of their focus on, well, what, you know, what is

1159
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 2: Trump going to do? And when Trump, you know, didn't

1160
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 2: come out in support of you know, the bipart is

1161
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 2: and efforts, then they knew it was just it was

1162
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 2: just it was just done. But you know, I think

1163
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:12,839
Speaker 2: that this also gets into which I wrote about for Sunday,

1164
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 2: is how little Trump thinks about Congress in the sense

1165
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 2: of he doesn't think any more legislation needs to come

1166
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:27,719
Speaker 2: through the Hill. He said in October that he's done

1167
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,719
Speaker 2: with legislating. He said it again in December. He's done.

1168
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 2: They don't need another bill. And you know, Trump just

1169
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 2: thinks that he can do everything that matters through executive order.

1170
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 2: And the reality is that Republicans cannot get anything through

1171
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 2: Congress without Trump, and so they're in this position where

1172
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 2: they need the president, but the President is done with them.

1173
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 2: He got his tax extenders, he got his money for

1174
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:01,599
Speaker 2: immigration enforcement, and he he was able to reverse like

1175
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: all the clean clean energy stuff through the one big,

1176
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 2: beautiful bill. And so there's nothing else that he cares

1177
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 2: about on the Hill.

1178
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: So there's not going to be another reconciliation, huh.

1179
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 2: I mean members of congres like Speaker Johnson says that

1180
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 2: there he's going to try. He wants one, other members

1181
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:26,520
Speaker 2: of Congress, other Republicans want it, but if Trump's not involved,

1182
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 2: they can't get it. That's why healthcare fell apart is

1183
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 2: because Trump completely absent.

1184
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 1: Well, it's because you know I've been calling Mike Johnson

1185
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: a Spino speaker in name only.

1186
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, you know, I keep.

1187
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: I keep hoping this will you know, the way Scotus

1188
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: and Potus takes off Rhino and Dino Spino right speaker, Yeah,

1189
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: I keep waiting for that to to get some traction,

1190
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 1: but it is, it's up to Trump. And so if

1191
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: Trump's got, i mean, the only thing he wants from Congress,

1192
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm guessing is him is a congressionable order changing the

1193
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: name of the Kennedy Senator to the Trump Kennedy Center.

1194
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: Right like that that that's about all he would care

1195
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: about getting out of Congress.

1196
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean look at the Look at the

1197
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:11,520
Speaker 2: military pay that he announced.

1198
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: That's money that was already appropriated to the Defense Department.

1199
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: And it's discretionary. It's essentially discretionary housing allowance, right.

1200
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And he is claiming that it's tariff revenue money.

1201
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: He's not even admitting that Congress passed this because like

1202
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 2: he just not.

1203
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:31,560
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not the first president to try to

1204
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 1: take something that was already done and put a new

1205
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: label on it and stamp it. Hey, look at I've done, right, Like,

1206
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, oh, we're giving the military extra money. Well

1207
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: let's call it my pay raise, you know, or.

1208
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 2: My bonus or right totally. But like, why don't you

1209
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 2: just say, look at what we passed or whatever, rather

1210
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 2: than say it's from tariff revenue, which actually is a

1211
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 2: I don't know why he would say it anyways, because

1212
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 2: then he'd have to take them well, repay the tariff

1213
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 2: money if the Supreme Court rules.

1214
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: So this gets to a question about the next six months,

1215
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: because it's interesting. You don't think there's really much legislating

1216
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: that's going to happen other than what they have to

1217
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: the have to stuff that we're not going to see

1218
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: an A want twos. Okay, Well, one of the half

1219
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 1: tows that might come is if the Supreme Court rules

1220
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: the way most of us expect, the Supreme Court rule

1221
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: on the president's tariff authority or lack thereof, and he

1222
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 1: will need you know, in theory, he has appliant appliant House,

1223
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: at least a House Republican conference that I think in

1224
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: probably he can get anything out of them. Senate's going

1225
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 1: to be a harder left on tariffs. I mean, I

1226
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: think we all know that. Does that not change his

1227
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: tune about the necessity of and he would want reconciliation

1228
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 1: on TERRF authority because you know, he needs to afford

1229
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,720
Speaker 1: to lose Republican votes on this.

1230
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, So I had heard from you know, outside,

1231
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 2: from lobbyists who say that they are already considering like

1232
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:06,959
Speaker 2: how to go to Congress for how to pass the tariffs.

1233
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 2: I you know, I don't even know if House Republicans

1234
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 2: will do it though.

1235
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: Check.

1236
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:18,759
Speaker 2: I think that as polling is continuing to as polling

1237
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 2: is suggesting that people are starting to tie tariffs with

1238
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 2: high costs, these Republicans who are facing voters in you know,

1239
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 2: a few months from whenever this tariff decision comes out,

1240
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 2: I just don't see them giving Trump like blanket authority

1241
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 2: to continue this tariff regime. Definitely in the Senate and

1242
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: even in the House, we'll see. But I just I

1243
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 2: really think that, you know, outside circumstances are going to

1244
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 2: dictate this, the political circumstances and the economic circumstances. But

1245
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 2: if things are how they are now, I'm not sure

1246
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 2: if even they'd be on board.

1247
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: Well, I do expect the White House to find other

1248
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, even the President has sort of hinted, he goes, well,

1249
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: if they take it away, I've got other ways to

1250
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 1: do this. But it will be harder, and it will

1251
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: be more complicated, and it will get in the way

1252
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: of his so called deal making that he's done, that's

1253
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:20,600
Speaker 1: for sure. So if if if there really isn't going

1254
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:24,480
Speaker 1: to be much legislating. Then how many more retirements are

1255
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 1: you know? I mean to me, that's the that's going

1256
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: to be the the story of the next three weeks, right,

1257
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: is how many members decide over the holidays. I'm out,

1258
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm done.

1259
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. So I wrote and reported a couple

1260
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 2: of weeks ago that people were Republicans were really bracing

1261
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:47,480
Speaker 2: for a lot of retirements.

1262
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 1: What is a lot another dozen?

1263
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,520
Speaker 2: Well, I was told at least twenty.

1264
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 1: Another twenty, we already are at a fairly Look, this

1265
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: is where in the higher end of the retirements. It's

1266
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 1: nowhere near the all time record, but we're at the

1267
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: higher end. Another twenty would put us in that in

1268
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:09,440
Speaker 1: an all time situation.

1269
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see if that plays out. I was

1270
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 2: told that obviously a lot of these people are still

1271
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 2: making their decisions but serving, you know, And the Republicans

1272
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 2: that I some of the Republicans I talked to, they

1273
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 2: were like, look, don't don't don't make this a a

1274
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 2: that most of these people are from safe seats really

1275
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 2: or maybe that second or third tier competitive seat. But

1276
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 2: it is an indictment on what it's like to serve

1277
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 2: in Congress right now, are you going to put up

1278
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 2: if you have any sort of familial strife or member

1279
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 2: is sick, or there's you know, things going on in

1280
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,919
Speaker 2: your family that's not perfect, in your life that's not perfect.

1281
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 2: Why would you do this? Like in a when the

1282
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 2: job is fun, when you're s sucessful, when you're passing legislation,

1283
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 2: you can overcome that stuff. But then you're you start

1284
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 2: to weigh things differently, and you know, I'm told that

1285
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:13,520
Speaker 2: like the Texas Republicans are, and of course the California

1286
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 2: Republicans are just pissed. They are mad about the redistricting effort.

1287
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: We're mad at the White House and Johnson right there.

1288
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: They're somehow mad that Johnson can't tell the president no,

1289
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: that's I guess what they're mad at him at right.

1290
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, they are not standing up for them, especially

1291
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 2: on the redistricting effort. Even though some of these seats

1292
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 2: were made safer for Republicans. People don't like to they're.

1293
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 1: New, but they're new districts.

1294
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 2: You have to be new with new lines and meet

1295
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 2: new people and fundraising.

1296
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 1: Now, this is one of those perfect storms. The times

1297
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: that we've had record breaking retirements are when we've had

1298
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: both an unpopped the majority party is in the White

1299
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 1: House and it's unpopular, coupled with a reapportionment, right it

1300
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 1: redistricting year nineteen ninety two is one of the ninety

1301
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: four cycle sort of was a big one on that,

1302
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 1: both ninety two and ninety fourths or two cycles in

1303
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:10,759
Speaker 1: a row. And here we are in a mid decade.

1304
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:15,919
Speaker 1: But it's both an unpopular majority party that they're facing,

1305
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: which is sort of the typical six year ititch type

1306
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: of mindset, and it happens to there's a whole bunch

1307
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,600
Speaker 1: of redistricting that happened, and so you don't want to

1308
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 1: you already fighting an uphill battle, and you know, do

1309
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: I really I know I'm in a fifty nine percent district,

1310
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 1: but fifty nine percent districts might be swing districts. I

1311
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,480
Speaker 1: don't want to have to race ten million dollars.

1312
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 2: This cycle, right, totally, totally. And one member from a

1313
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 2: swing district, you know, said that they're going to have

1314
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: to raise tens of millions of dollars for you know,

1315
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 2: they're in a big media market whatever, but you know,

1316
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 2: they just said that their race could be a sixty

1317
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,640
Speaker 2: million dollar race for not you know, total, but for

1318
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 2: a district, which is which is mind these days.

1319
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 1: And you know, you know, I've never been like a

1320
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 1: huge the whole money in politics thing like I've I've

1321
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,959
Speaker 1: I've I empathized with those that fight, you know, that

1322
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 1: are in that advocacy world. And it's just like, hey man,

1323
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 1: money in politics, it's just you're never going to you know,

1324
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: get rid of it. But but you do. You're like, Okay,

1325
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: this is getting crazy because North Carolina Senate, it's probably

1326
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: going to be our first billion dollar centuries one billion

1327
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 1: with a B. Main's going to be six hundred million

1328
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 1: is an estimate. Maine, Okay, Like no, right, and like

1329
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 1: you're going to buy Boston to get the tiniest piece

1330
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 1: of like of the southern tier of Portland. Right, it

1331
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: is we are we have hit absurd levels on money

1332
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 1: where if you don't have access to rich people, you

1333
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 1: can't run for office. And that is where suddenly when

1334
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders runs around saying oligarchy, you're like, well, I am,

1335
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: how do you holse? Do you what do you call it?

1336
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 1: Where everybody that runs for office has to have a

1337
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: rich person on their side in order to win.

1338
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, or be rich. It's you know, I was talking

1339
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 2: to a couple members the other day and they said

1340
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 2: that now fifty percent of their time is spent fundraising.

1341
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,880
Speaker 2: And you know, I mean, I don't even know how

1342
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 2: you find the time. You barely sleep, but that is

1343
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 2: just miserable to have to sit there and call people

1344
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 2: and call people, and you know, and there's a point

1345
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 2: of everyone admits that there's a point of diminishing returns,

1346
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:42,400
Speaker 2: that too much money actually stops working, but you still

1347
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 2: have to raise it, and you still have to spend it.

1348
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: And all those donors. You know, it's funny now the

1349
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: million dollar donor thinks, hey, I gave a million dollars.

1350
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 1: I expect them, I expect something I expect, you know,

1351
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: And the average member of Congress going, yeah, you know,

1352
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:10,599
Speaker 1: I'll jump, I'll I'll jump if you're a ten million

1353
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 1: dollar donor. But a million dollar donors there's a get

1354
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: you know. I joke. I give a little bit of

1355
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 1: money to the University of Miami Athletic Department. I also

1356
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 1: give money to my alma moner, GW basketball. I give

1357
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 1: less to GW basketball, but they're more grateful because I'm

1358
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:28,600
Speaker 1: a it's a smaller pool right when you're part of

1359
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 1: you think you think you're giving a lot of money,

1360
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,600
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, there's there's fifty people ahead of

1361
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 1: you that give all that, you know, and they're going

1362
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: to get the priority, and they're going to get the attention,

1363
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 1: and they're going to get the love and affection and

1364
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So a million dollars doesn't even

1365
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 1: buy what it used to buy anymore when it comes

1366
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 1: to donors, which is just perverted, I'm sorry, just perverting

1367
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: the system. The system's already a mess.

1368
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,760
Speaker 2: Well, then Trump has, you know, a billion dollars of

1369
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 2: his own money that he could spend to help House

1370
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 2: Republicans keep the majority. He hasn't yet. He has said

1371
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,679
Speaker 2: that he will help, but they have not yet gotten

1372
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 2: a commitment as to how much, how what that's going

1373
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 2: to look like. And I'm really interested. I don't know

1374
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 2: the answer to this yet, but I'm really interested, Like,

1375
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 2: is he going to spend a bunch of money to

1376
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 2: try to primary state senators who don't go along with redistricting,

1377
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 2: which will have no impact on control of the House.

1378
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: But no, you're probably just dividing your own party and

1379
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,799
Speaker 1: just making it that much harder to have a good ninture.

1380
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, and getting back to

1381
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 2: the lack of legislating. Trump is so determined to keep

1382
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 2: control of the House that he unleashed this entire bloody

1383
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 2: redistricting war for what not to legislate because he does

1384
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 2: not want to get impeached again.

1385
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 1: Like, so, what's the likelihood of that? I mean, I

1386
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 1: find this.

1387
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 2: I think I think it's low.

1388
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: I don't think I think it's I can't think of

1389
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 1: a dumber idea for House Democrats in the seventh year

1390
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: of Trump being in president of the United States to

1391
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: impeach him. I mean, look, I'm not saying you might

1392
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 1: have grounds to do it. I'm not saying to me,

1393
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 1: if if the next group, if if people want to

1394
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,759
Speaker 1: impeach him, let the Republicans impeach him.

1395
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I agree, And I think that it's I

1396
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 2: think that Democrats aren't going to do it. We'll see

1397
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,559
Speaker 2: what Trump does. But but yeah, so he's operating. Trump

1398
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 2: is operating out of this PTSD from his first term

1399
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 2: in these impeachments, and that's why he wants to prevent

1400
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 2: Democrats from ruining the House. Has nothing to do with

1401
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 2: his agenda or his goals or what he wants to

1402
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:50,080
Speaker 2: do for the country.

1403
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:54,759
Speaker 1: All right, of the let's talk about the four leaders. Yeah, Johnson,

1404
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Schumer, Thoon. Let's start with who I think are

1405
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 1: the most unpopular within their own party these days for

1406
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons. Johnson on the Republican side, Schumer

1407
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: on the Democratic side. Who's more likely to return as

1408
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:15,759
Speaker 1: leader of their of You know, in this case, Johnson

1409
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: might be the minority leader, but he would still be

1410
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 1: the leader if Republicans lose the House come January fourth,

1411
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven. I mean who's still going to be there?

1412
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 1: Schumer or Johnson?

1413
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 2: I think Schumer I don't think he'll be there, yeah,

1414
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 2: and Johnson won't Yeah. I mean, of course, it all

1415
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 2: will depend on the outcome of the.

1416
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 1: Mis Johnson only come back if they somehow hold the House.

1417
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if they lose a house, I think that

1418
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 2: there's going to be a huge shake up in leadership.

1419
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 1: On likelihood that Johnson seeks reelection, so.

1420
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:57,559
Speaker 2: He'll serve you know for twenty eight you mean no,

1421
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 2: I think for you think he definitely runs through re

1422
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 2: election this sight, right, I think he definitely runs.

1423
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 1: Because that would send does he because remember Paul Ryan

1424
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:08,600
Speaker 1: announced in April right of eighteen he wasn't coming back. Yeah,

1425
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 1: you don't expect something like that from Johnson.

1426
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 2: I don't. Johnson thinks way too highly of himself and

1427
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 2: his ability to bow out. Now, Yeah, I think he's

1428
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 2: in it for this cycle. I think that if Republicans

1429
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: lose the House, you know, they lose that slot, and

1430
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 2: so there's not a spot for him unless he becomes

1431
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 2: leader minority leader. But then there's Scalise, that's the person.

1432
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's going to run for reelection

1433
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 2: as Scalise. I think he's a higher probability of not

1434
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 2: than Johnson for sure.

1435
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's already found out he's never going to be speaker. Yea, Right,

1436
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: he learned that the hard way in his was he

1437
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,240
Speaker 1: six hours that he tried to get the votes? Was

1438
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,639
Speaker 1: that what it was about, right, Like, okay, go ahead,

1439
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:56,040
Speaker 1: you get about six hours so you can get the

1440
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 1: votes and get the votes. Okay, let's move on. Yeah.

1441
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:05,840
Speaker 2: No, yeah, he's not going to be speaker. He just hasn't.

1442
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 2: He doesn't have the allies among the conference that you need.

1443
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 2: He has made a lot of people angry, and then

1444
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 2: who does.

1445
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: Who would be Is there a committee chair, in fact,

1446
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 1: is there a committee chair that just gets shipped done

1447
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 1: on the Republican side? That would be like, like I

1448
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 1: remember one of the reasons, but Bob Livingston was supposed

1449
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 1: to be the person to replaced Gingrich, and the reason

1450
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 1: was I think he was on ways and means. It

1451
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 1: was like, you know, he gets stuff done, Like you

1452
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: know the idea that a committee chair that can get

1453
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 1: stuff done, especially in a tough committee like ways and

1454
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 1: Means or approbes or something like that, or even rules

1455
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 1: that it like, Okay, if you know how to do that,

1456
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 1: then maybe you've got the skill set to be to

1457
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: be Speaker or to be leader of the caucus. Who's

1458
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: the committee chair that knows what they're doing?

1459
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 2: Jim Jordan's He's the quiet which is crazy that these

1460
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:05,799
Speaker 2: if you know Wyatt and that's why he is subtle,

1461
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 2: He's very he's going to give this.

1462
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 1: One more college tries to be leader of the House Republicans.

1463
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's Jim Jordan. I think that

1464
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:20,799
Speaker 2: Tom Emmer. He has some enemies too, but he really

1465
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:24,680
Speaker 2: has a good relationship with the Freedom Caucus and so

1466
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,799
Speaker 2: I think he could have a shot he has built.

1467
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:30,799
Speaker 2: He's like worked really hard to build that relationship with Trump,

1468
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:32,760
Speaker 2: and so those are.

1469
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: The still though, isn't it.

1470
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I think it's gotten a lot

1471
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 2: better this year, especially with he's the guy who kind

1472
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 2: of has to clean up Johnson's mess a lot, or

1473
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 2: try to. And Richard Hudson, Yeah, you know Richard Hudson.

1474
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's one that I get, like, I hear good,

1475
01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: I hear people don't have bad words to say about him,

1476
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: whether they're or non mega.

1477
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everyone like really likes him. He's like a

1478
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 2: fun person. I don't want the job, but but yeah,

1479
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 2: you know, I forgot about him actually, but yeah, he's

1480
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:14,680
Speaker 2: someone that you can keep in mind. But as far

1481
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 2: as like Schumer is concerned, you know Schumer, I do

1482
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 2: not think he's running for reelection. No one on the hill,

1483
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,719
Speaker 2: no Democrat thinks he's running for reelection.

1484
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,840
Speaker 1: I can't imagine him doing it. Nobody have talked to

1485
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:31,880
Speaker 1: New York. I think people would be shocked if he did.

1486
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 1: And I assume the only way he does is if

1487
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 1: somehow Democrats get the Senate and he's a majority leader again,

1488
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 1: then he might not want to give it up.

1489
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a possibility, but I

1490
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:44,879
Speaker 2: think that he's just like too damaged within the party,

1491
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 2: I think. But I think the reason he's going to

1492
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 2: be leader after twenty six or you know, if they win,

1493
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 2: if they win the majority, then absolutely, If they don't,

1494
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 2: I think he'll still be leader. Kind of let him.

1495
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:00,720
Speaker 1: But there might be a real challenge they don't, right,

1496
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 1: especially if like that, Let's say Democrats win forty seats

1497
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,800
Speaker 1: again in the House. Yeah, right, it's a forty seat

1498
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: pick up in the House, thirty to forty. The new

1499
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: forty would be thirty. So let's say it's thirty, right,

1500
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 1: twenty five to thirty, which I think is the highest

1501
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 1: end it could be, and Democrats only pick up two sentences, right,

1502
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I imagine there's a little bit of do

1503
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: you guys know what you're doing, you know, with when

1504
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 1: it comes to Senate races, et cetera, et cetera.

1505
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:30,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's already that people are mad about

1506
01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 2: the primaries and the heavy handed of like Grandpaton, you know,

1507
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:34,439
Speaker 2: but they's.

1508
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 1: So what's funny about it is that where they're heavy

1509
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: handed is stupid, and where they're not heavy handed, it's stupid,

1510
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 1: like like Texas, how did you let that happen? And

1511
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: then you tried to get involved in Iowa and Maine,

1512
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 1: Like it makes no sense to have gotten involved in

1513
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 1: Iowa in particular, you know, I with Maine. I kind

1514
01:29:53,479 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 1: of get it now, how they how they how they

1515
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 1: leak that. I just think the way they handle the

1516
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 1: OPO on Platner was just stupid. They were like, look

1517
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: at all this fluff we got, you actually turned am in.

1518
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 1: You wasted all of that ammunition, just complete just absolute

1519
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:15,320
Speaker 1: political research practice. It was stupid. I don't know who

1520
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: made that decision. Was that a d SEC decision or

1521
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 1: a Janet Mills campaign decision? It was just stupid.

1522
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:24,759
Speaker 2: I heard it was a DS decision. I don't you know. Again,

1523
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:28,799
Speaker 2: I'm just but I was told that, like the Janet

1524
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 2: Mills operation, like they're I mean, they're good, she won governor,

1525
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:35,599
Speaker 2: but they're not like they're not DS material.

1526
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:39,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is a d dss DS material. I'm sorry,

1527
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,600
Speaker 1: what proof has the DS been anything. I'm some of

1528
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 1: those guys I love over there, and I've they've been

1529
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: good sources for me for decades. But that's the problem.

1530
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: I think that they still think everything looks like two

1531
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 1: thousand and six or twenty twelve. I just think that

1532
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 1: they've lost I think they've lost touch on where today's

1533
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and today's swing voter is. And then there's

1534
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 1: conceding defeat in all of these light red states. Yeah,

1535
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 1: they just are conceding defeat. Where are they in Kansas?

1536
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 1: Where are they in Florida? Where are they in some

1537
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 1: of these states that they've got to put on the

1538
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:18,120
Speaker 1: map even if they don't get to fifty.

1539
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's obviously, I mean, you are just expressing

1540
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 2: the frustration with Democratic Caucus, who was thinking the exact

1541
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 2: same thing. But Jillibrand is an ally of Schumer's. She's

1542
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 2: a loyal soldier, and it's really Schumer who's running it. Obviously.

1543
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,200
Speaker 1: Well, the fact that you don't see jili Brand ever

1544
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 1: speak about Center racist publicly, I mean she keeps a

1545
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:49,640
Speaker 1: very low profile. Yeah, it has always been right. It's

1546
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:51,760
Speaker 1: interesting how low of a profile she's kept on this.

1547
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually is. I hadn't even thought about that,

1548
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 2: but it is, I think because my brain just always

1549
01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 2: goes to Schumer. I don't even didn't even realize it.

1550
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 1: Which is what makes the which was what made that decision.

1551
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:05,920
Speaker 1: I would semi surprise that the rest of the Senate

1552
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: Democrats wanted to concentrate all of that with the two

1553
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:09,720
Speaker 1: New Yorkers.

1554
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:11,799
Speaker 2: Yeah they didn't.

1555
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Jeffries. He's going to get a shot

1556
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:21,880
Speaker 1: at being speaker, it seems like. But there I feel

1557
01:32:21,880 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 1: like there's creeping doubts about whether he's got it, But

1558
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 1: nobody's going to challenge him per se if it stepped

1559
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 1: in front of him unless they somehow didn't win the House.

1560
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think that he is being given a

1561
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 2: very long runway. But I will also say I feel

1562
01:32:43,320 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 2: like last week, with the whole health care debacle in

1563
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 2: on the Republican side, that Democrats that that could be

1564
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 2: the week that Hakim Jeffries became Speaker of the House.

1565
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 2: Like I think that maybe you can point and you know,

1566
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 2: we'll obviously see that happens in the next ten but

1567
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 2: I feel like that was a really critical week for Jeffries.

1568
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 2: His long shot messaging bill of a three year extension

1569
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:13,679
Speaker 2: of the Obamacare subsidies, which no one had thought had

1570
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 2: any chance discharged, now has support from Republicans because the

1571
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:23,000
Speaker 2: Republicans messed it up so much and you know, throughout

1572
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 2: this process, some Democrats were telling me outside Democrats were

1573
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,679
Speaker 2: telling me that Jefferies had not been given enough credit

1574
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 2: for the strategy. And I feel like they or they

1575
01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:39,400
Speaker 2: feel like they're validated. Now. You know, Jeffries has a

1576
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:41,520
Speaker 2: lot of challenges.

1577
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 1: I don't envy. I think he's got the toughest job

1578
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,799
Speaker 1: of anybody right now in leadership outside of Johnson. Johnson's

1579
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:50,519
Speaker 1: got his own, but he sort of he allows himself

1580
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:54,120
Speaker 1: to be put in a box. Jeffries has got. You know. Look,

1581
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:59,799
Speaker 1: I think Jeffries and Schumers should take more incoming for

1582
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: for mismanaging the New York City mayors race, like just

1583
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 1: completely screwing up the Cuomo you know how they mismanage

1584
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:08,120
Speaker 1: that is to me on the two leaders of the

1585
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 1: Democratic Party both are from New York City, and they

1586
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 1: buried their head in the sand when Andy Cuomo decided

1587
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 1: that he was going to run. What the heth were

1588
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 1: they thinking? Right? Like, they just didn't It's not about

1589
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,320
Speaker 1: mam Donnie, mom, Donnie to me, is a symptom of

1590
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 1: the mismanagement of the Cuomo situation.

1591
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 2: Well also totally, I mean, and the funny thing is

1592
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 2: is that Schumer and Cuomo have a horrific relationship. Schumer

1593
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 2: like Cuomo and the fact that yeah, and they still

1594
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 2: didn't do more so it was really really mystifying. I

1595
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 2: and you never really got a good answer about it.

1596
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:52,679
Speaker 2: I will say that in my reporting, New Yorkers didn't

1597
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 2: really care about what Schumer did. It's just like whatever, No.

1598
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 1: I get that, But it's not about the public perception.

1599
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:02,800
Speaker 1: It's about you want to be a leader of your party. Yeah,

1600
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: you're you're You should have jumped in front of the

1601
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,679
Speaker 1: freight train that was Andy Cuomo and say sorry, buddy,

1602
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:12,519
Speaker 1: no and found a found a candidate and got behind

1603
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:15,600
Speaker 1: somebody else, or done something differently, maybe, you know, you

1604
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: could say. But the the way they they behaved as

1605
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 1: if they were paralyzed by the situation.

1606
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was very very odd. And it

1607
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 2: was the donors that came down to the donors.

1608
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 1: And I guess, yeah, no, you're right. Well that tells you, right,

1609
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:37,559
Speaker 1: And they said about that Cuomo is the only one

1610
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:40,360
Speaker 1: that could be pro Israel anyway. I just the whole

1611
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:42,640
Speaker 1: thing is just sort of bizarre to me. Let me

1612
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 1: get you out of here. On this is John Thune,

1613
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: the tallest little person or does he really has he

1614
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:54,439
Speaker 1: actually started to develop a power base and a power structure.

1615
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:58,680
Speaker 1: I asked, because I've heard crankiness about Thune, meaning that

1616
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:04,599
Speaker 1: they wish Thune. Would they miss Mitch McConnell protecting them

1617
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:07,519
Speaker 1: from tough folks and John. One thing John Thune won't

1618
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:09,680
Speaker 1: do is Sorry, guys, I'm not standing in the way

1619
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 1: of this vote that Trump wants, you know, but the

1620
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:15,000
Speaker 1: but he did shut down the the filibuster talk right

1621
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 1: getting of the filibuster, so that I assume won him

1622
01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 1: some plaudits. But where's the how would you assess Thunes

1623
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 1: uh hold on his position right now?

1624
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:29,080
Speaker 2: Good? I think that that's why you see the least

1625
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:32,200
Speaker 2: amount written about Thune is because it's hard to come

1626
01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:36,440
Speaker 2: up with like a good story about Thuone people generally

1627
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:42,479
Speaker 2: like him. The filibuster was a huge test, will continue

1628
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 2: to be a huge test. The blue slips. I know

1629
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:48,720
Speaker 2: Grassley is kind of leading that, but you know, no

1630
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:52,880
Speaker 2: other kind of disinstitutional stuff. And also how the NRSC

1631
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:58,320
Speaker 2: like how these primaries go. There's some frustration that the

1632
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:02,719
Speaker 2: NRSC VSA of e Fune is also not being tough

1633
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:05,520
Speaker 2: enough in some of these primaries, like in Texas.

1634
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 1: No, I could I could hear an argument. You know,

1635
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:11,519
Speaker 1: I didn't think Cornyn was going to file because I

1636
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:14,799
Speaker 1: thought he would feel pressure not to file. Yeah, because

1637
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 1: Pax didn't be in the nominee is a huge problem.

1638
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 2: Yes, it's an absolutely huge problem. But he filed and

1639
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 2: they Yeah, they've really mismanaged that and they were unable

1640
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,599
Speaker 2: to keep Wesley Hunt out of the out of the race,

1641
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:37,120
Speaker 2: and so, you know, it is it's a big test

1642
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 2: for thoone. It's interesting because McConnell in twelve and fourteen,

1643
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:46,960
Speaker 2: after fourteen, I think it was that's when he really

1644
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 2: became involved in primaries and in the Purple Operation because

1645
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 2: he was screwed so badly in the primaries and John

1646
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:59,640
Speaker 2: Cornyn ironically was the NRSC chair in twelve and fourteen

1647
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 2: having to deal with, you know, taking a back seat

1648
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:06,960
Speaker 2: in these crazy primaries, and then McConnell stepped in after

1649
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 2: that and is like, no, I'm running this operation. So

1650
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:12,880
Speaker 2: Dune hasn't seemed to do that yet and people are

1651
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:15,640
Speaker 2: kind of wanting him to put a little muscle. But

1652
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 2: that's really the biggest complaint I've heard.

1653
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: Interesting, Well, it's the best beat in Washington still isn't

1654
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 1: it leante?

1655
01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:25,720
Speaker 2: It is, Yes, it is.

1656
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's always been my mantra. It's the best

1657
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 1: beat in Washington, don't you know. Don't try to go

1658
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:33,960
Speaker 1: cover the white House. It sucks. Covering the white House

1659
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:36,080
Speaker 1: is boring. Yeah, and the Hill is awesome.

1660
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:39,160
Speaker 2: Now the white House is more prestigious, but the Hill

1661
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:39,880
Speaker 2: is the best.

1662
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:43,800
Speaker 1: That's where you actually find news. Let me get you

1663
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 1: out of here on this. How do you describe when

1664
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 1: you have to tell people what Puck is that aren't

1665
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:51,040
Speaker 1: familiar with it, how do you describe it?

1666
01:38:53,200 --> 01:39:01,439
Speaker 2: I describe it as an email subscription newsletter. That the

1667
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:06,559
Speaker 2: easiest way to describe it, I tell say is it's

1668
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 2: like a newer vanity fair, like a new version of vanity.

1669
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:19,559
Speaker 1: Interesting because because there's you know, there's some culture, there's business,

1670
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:23,760
Speaker 1: there's there's there's even sports now, right, It's it's sort

1671
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 1: of the the look I like the idea of the

1672
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 1: four Corners, Silicon Valley, New York, Washington, LA. Right, like

1673
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 1: all of the cultural touchstones of America that sort of

1674
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 1: make us, you know, uh, make things run. But it's

1675
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 1: a I get it, but I imagine it is sometimes

1676
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:44,640
Speaker 1: hard to describe.

1677
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:47,360
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and that's why I say that because also

1678
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:51,400
Speaker 2: the writing, you know, the writing matters. They really take

1679
01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:53,080
Speaker 2: a lot of we will take a lot of pride

1680
01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:58,799
Speaker 2: in in the presentation, and I feel like I'm writing

1681
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 2: a mini magazine piece every time I write. And so

1682
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:05,880
Speaker 2: it just you know, our editors, you know John Kelly

1683
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:09,240
Speaker 2: who started it, the top editor. They both came from

1684
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair, Like so many people grew up in that

1685
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:16,400
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair Heyday world, and so it's like a modern

1686
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:18,439
Speaker 2: version of that.

1687
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you say Vanity Fair, even though Vanity

1688
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 1: Fair was was a monthly and so didn't you know

1689
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 1: I would argue what you guys, because I agree. It's

1690
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 1: that it reminds me more of the weekly pieces that

1691
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:33,519
Speaker 1: Time and Newsweek used to produce that were filled with

1692
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,479
Speaker 1: because Time and Newsweek didn't have to worry about the

1693
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 1: day to day manutia, they got to take a step

1694
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 1: back and sort of have that. And so to me,

1695
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:46,200
Speaker 1: you most emulate Howard Feinneman from the nineties. Oh, because

1696
01:40:46,240 --> 01:40:49,439
Speaker 1: Howard Fineman was the chief political correspondent for Newsweek and

1697
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:52,559
Speaker 1: he always sort of authored the big picture. Nancy Gibbs

1698
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:55,559
Speaker 1: was the person that Time Magazine you know, and she

1699
01:40:55,680 --> 01:40:58,400
Speaker 1: eventually became editor of Time, but she also was that,

1700
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, there were these who could write it in

1701
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:05,880
Speaker 1: its tremendous skill and it is what I think smart,

1702
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:08,040
Speaker 1: the way smart people want to consume this information.

1703
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 2: So well, thanks. Yeah, I think that it's like a

1704
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:16,760
Speaker 2: great niche and I think it was missing, especially in

1705
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:21,519
Speaker 2: this like you know, cable news, yeah, and punch bowl

1706
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 2: News of like every minute this is happening.

1707
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm not going to bring up the there's two news

1708
01:41:27,320 --> 01:41:29,800
Speaker 1: organizations that should have been filling this vacuum and chose

1709
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 1: not to, and you used to work out one of them. Yeah. Yeah,

1710
01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:38,080
Speaker 1: We'll leave it there, Leah Caldwell. Always a pressure. Enjoy

1711
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:39,360
Speaker 1: the holidays, Enjoy your break.

1712
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 2: Thanks YouTube, Chuck.

1713
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:51,479
Speaker 1: So there you go everything you need to know about

1714
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 1: Congress again. We have my debate about the prediction markets,

1715
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:03,680
Speaker 1: but Mike Johnson staying speaker for the all of the

1716
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: twenty twenty sixth calendar year. The odds aren't one hundred percent.

1717
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 1: Question is are they even fifty percent? Just something to

1718
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,200
Speaker 1: think about there. All right, let's go into the toodcast

1719
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 1: time machine for our little history lesson of the week,

1720
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:27,799
Speaker 1: and we are going back to December twenty sixth, nineteen

1721
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,519
Speaker 1: ninety one for a reminder. How do I pick my

1722
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,479
Speaker 1: historical deep dives for the toodcast time Machine. I just

1723
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,800
Speaker 1: look at the week we are in and look back

1724
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 1: in history for essentially this week in history, but instead

1725
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:44,680
Speaker 1: of calling it this week in history, you do the

1726
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: podcast time Machine. So we're going back to December twenty sixth,

1727
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:50,280
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. It's pretty momentous day in world history.

1728
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: It was the day that the Soviet Union formally dissolved,

1729
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:59,400
Speaker 1: officially ending the Cold War. On December twenty seventh, Mikhail

1730
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 1: Gorbachev resigned as leader of said Soviet Union, and so

1731
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 1: we thought the end of history. But it's actually a

1732
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: pretty good reminder, and it's actually go dovetails pretty well

1733
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: with the time Machine episode we did a couple of

1734
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 1: weeks ago on the fall of the Ottoman Empire and

1735
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:25,719
Speaker 1: how you know, some things are still not resolved, okay,

1736
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:28,160
Speaker 1: and the fall of the Ottoman Empire and World War One.

1737
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 1: We haven't resolved War War one. We resolved World War

1738
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 1: two more than we've resolved World War One. Well, the

1739
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 1: collapse of the Soviet Union, I would argue, is still unresolved. Right,

1740
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:41,880
Speaker 1: it is. It is too I could it is too

1741
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 1: soon to declare whether it was an historical positive or

1742
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:49,559
Speaker 1: an historical negative. Why do I say that? Well, let

1743
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:52,880
Speaker 1: me let's go back down, Let's go into the rabbit hole,

1744
01:43:52,920 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 1: that is the collapse of the Soviet Union. So it's

1745
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:58,719
Speaker 1: late ninety and the Soviet flag comes down over the Kremlin.

1746
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 1: The Cold War ended not with a bang, not with

1747
01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:06,480
Speaker 1: a war, but simply with a resignation, right for Mikhail Gorbachev,

1748
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:10,160
Speaker 1: and we all exhaled because for the first time in

1749
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:13,639
Speaker 1: nearly half a century Americans, we're going to go into

1750
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:16,240
Speaker 1: a new year without a superpower rival staring us down.

1751
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 1: No nuclear brinksmanship, no ideological stand up, no Berlin Wall.

1752
01:44:21,720 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: I mean I had, by the way, I had matchbox

1753
01:44:26,240 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 1: cars that were made in West Germany. Okay, So for me,

1754
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:34,519
Speaker 1: my fifty three years on this planet, this is still

1755
01:44:34,600 --> 01:44:38,920
Speaker 1: a monumental and unbelievable event, especially when you're raised one

1756
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:45,600
Speaker 1: way and all of a sudden everything is new. But

1757
01:44:46,200 --> 01:44:49,240
Speaker 1: all of this felt final, right, It felt resolved. It

1758
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:53,200
Speaker 1: felt like history chose a winner. Francis Fukuyama famously even

1759
01:44:53,240 --> 01:44:55,400
Speaker 1: called at the end of history, we'll get into that

1760
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:58,439
Speaker 1: actually in my time machine segment here. But as it

1761
01:44:58,439 --> 01:45:01,879
Speaker 1: turns out, we were not witnessing the end of anything.

1762
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: It was essentially the end of the first act. It

1763
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 1: was arguably the end of the beginning, as they say,

1764
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:11,600
Speaker 1: and I don't know if we're now at the beginning

1765
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 1: of the end. So when the Soviet Union formally dissolved

1766
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 1: on December twenty sixth, nineteen ninety one, the dominant emotion

1767
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:23,519
Speaker 1: in the West wasn't fear. It was confidence. Communism had failed,

1768
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:29,040
Speaker 1: market capitalism had won, small l small D liberal democracy

1769
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 1: stood alone. The liberal democrats won, and that confidence found

1770
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,640
Speaker 1: its most famous intellectual expression in the work of Francis Fuguiyama,

1771
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 1: whose argument popularized by the headline that was the end

1772
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 1: of history. Sometimes headlines can warp a perception of very

1773
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 1: detailed analysis, but it did capture the mood of the moment,

1774
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 1: right there is no more historical fight over authoritarianism or democracy.

1775
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 1: Democracy was the winner. And that is what he was

1776
01:45:58,040 --> 01:46:01,200
Speaker 1: arguing in that sense, is that there wasn't He was

1777
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:04,639
Speaker 1: essentially saying, wasn't going to be the end of history,

1778
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:07,479
Speaker 1: maybe even the end of authoritarianism, but there was no

1779
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:14,639
Speaker 1: more legitimate ideological rival to liberal democracy, But what did

1780
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,679
Speaker 1: a lot of people here instead? Hey, the hard part

1781
01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 1: is over. The direction of history is settled, and what

1782
01:46:21,160 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 1: comes next is just implementation. You know, once we introduced

1783
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:31,280
Speaker 1: democracy fully in Russia's piece of cake. Unfortunately, when you

1784
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:34,640
Speaker 1: think that way, you stop asking certain questions. Right, And

1785
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:37,200
Speaker 1: one of the biggest mistakes I think that we made

1786
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,639
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties was treating the Soviet Union

1787
01:46:39,680 --> 01:46:43,200
Speaker 1: like it was simply a failed state, one country. It wasn't.

1788
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:46,160
Speaker 1: This was a collapsed empire. Allah, the fall of the

1789
01:46:46,160 --> 01:46:52,280
Speaker 1: Ottoman Empire. Empire collapses don't behave like regime changes. They

1790
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:57,120
Speaker 1: actually behave like massive earthquakes. Right, there's all sorts of aftershocks.

1791
01:46:57,640 --> 01:47:02,200
Speaker 1: Borders will move faster than identities do, Institutions disappear faster

1792
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:05,439
Speaker 1: than replacements can be built because of this large structure.

1793
01:47:05,479 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 1: That's what we saw at the fall of the Ottoman

1794
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:08,760
Speaker 1: Empire in the Middle East. That's what we saw the

1795
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:13,080
Speaker 1: fall of the Soviet Union, and the humiliation often outweighs

1796
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:16,559
Speaker 1: the liberation. It's not like people the humiliation of the

1797
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:21,480
Speaker 1: Soviet Union or the former Soviet Union, particularly Russia, didn't

1798
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:26,240
Speaker 1: necessarily lead to euphoria. There and so that's why I

1799
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:28,720
Speaker 1: think the better. You know, we sort of treated the

1800
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:31,439
Speaker 1: fall of the Soviet Union like the post war Germany

1801
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,080
Speaker 1: or post war Japan, when it really should have been

1802
01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 1: treated like the Ottoman Empire. Then again, we didn't do

1803
01:47:37,200 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: that one right either, right, So we had new nations

1804
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:44,439
Speaker 1: with weak institutions of former Soviet republics. There was deep

1805
01:47:44,520 --> 01:47:48,640
Speaker 1: resentment in the former imperial core because they've lost their status. So,

1806
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, Russians weren't all enthusiastic about this, as we know,

1807
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:58,040
Speaker 1: as Vladimir Putin did this day professes, and we've had

1808
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: decades of instability before anything that's resembled small d democratic

1809
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:05,719
Speaker 1: normalcy which has emerged. It's happened in a few places,

1810
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:08,800
Speaker 1: but it's still fledgling, right. You know, it's better in

1811
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 1: your Estonias and in your Polands, it's less so even

1812
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:15,839
Speaker 1: in your Ukraine's not good and hungry, certainly terrible in Russia.

1813
01:48:17,240 --> 01:48:21,120
Speaker 1: On the Ottoman Empire, the best you know post fall

1814
01:48:21,600 --> 01:48:24,960
Speaker 1: story is Turkey, and that's not exactly a great story,

1815
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:28,599
Speaker 1: and in fact, it had its ups and downs. Even

1816
01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:30,960
Speaker 1: after the fall of the empire. It took us, there

1817
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:36,599
Speaker 1: was a coup, there was another collapse, So it was

1818
01:48:37,360 --> 01:48:41,800
Speaker 1: this we should have realized this was not going to

1819
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:47,559
Speaker 1: be a straight line and so, but it doesn't introduce

1820
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 1: the question why is democracy not taken in Russia? Right?

1821
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:53,960
Speaker 1: And there's always been this sense of well, if if

1822
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:56,720
Speaker 1: a society doesn't have a history of it, it's not

1823
01:48:56,840 --> 01:49:00,800
Speaker 1: going to work. That you're going to have a few

1824
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 1: sort of false starts, right, But the question is is

1825
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 1: that the people or was it structural? And I think

1826
01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: there's a good argument here on structure. Look, there wasn't

1827
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:16,080
Speaker 1: any democratic muscle memory, right, that was a big problem. Okay,

1828
01:49:16,880 --> 01:49:19,840
Speaker 1: not easy. I think Poland had a better shot because

1829
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:23,880
Speaker 1: you had an opposition, right, Lequalessa was the opposition, but

1830
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:25,680
Speaker 1: it was an opposition in some ways. It was like

1831
01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 1: a government in exile, so there was you could sort

1832
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:33,360
Speaker 1: of see how a democracy would work. There'd be a

1833
01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:40,320
Speaker 1: debate and such. But you know, that's may explain why

1834
01:49:40,360 --> 01:49:44,439
Speaker 1: Poland worked in Russia didn't. The other part is there

1835
01:49:44,479 --> 01:49:46,960
Speaker 1: was no tradition of independent courts in a lot of

1836
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:49,799
Speaker 1: these places, There was no free media, and they hadn't

1837
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:53,679
Speaker 1: had a history of peaceful transfers of power. You also

1838
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:57,639
Speaker 1: had an economic collapse that was taking place even as

1839
01:49:57,720 --> 01:49:59,840
Speaker 1: they were trying the West was trying to help with

1840
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:04,560
Speaker 1: so called reform. But what happened was the quick privatization

1841
01:50:05,320 --> 01:50:07,799
Speaker 1: of the Soviet sort of public markets to the private

1842
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:12,559
Speaker 1: markets essentially created oligarchs, not a middle class. Right, wealthy

1843
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:15,000
Speaker 1: people were just sort of created out of thin air,

1844
01:50:15,640 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 1: very similar to what we saw in the fall of

1845
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:21,040
Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire. Right, you get a king kingdom, you

1846
01:50:21,080 --> 01:50:23,880
Speaker 1: get a kingdom, you don't get a king. This tribe here,

1847
01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:26,720
Speaker 1: this tribe there, Yes, this tribe here, this tribe here,

1848
01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:30,040
Speaker 1: and no, right, you run the oil company, will make

1849
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:33,120
Speaker 1: you wealthy and rich and will privatize it's all yours.

1850
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:35,960
Speaker 1: You do this. Sorry, no, So what happened. You created

1851
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,799
Speaker 1: super wealthy people, but you never created a middle class.

1852
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:42,680
Speaker 1: It didn't you know, actual free market capitalism. You know,

1853
01:50:42,720 --> 01:50:45,000
Speaker 1: you sort of go from zero to wealthy and you

1854
01:50:45,040 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 1: sort of earn your way up there. When you just

1855
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 1: sort of get handed it, there's no appreciation, there's just

1856
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:55,280
Speaker 1: no you know, then you end up running it the

1857
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:58,719
Speaker 1: way the only way you knew how it was run

1858
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 1: when you were in charge as an apparactic of the

1859
01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:08,559
Speaker 1: Communist party. And so what happened the average Russian they thought,

1860
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 1: this is democracy a bunch of oligarchs. So instead of

1861
01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:15,439
Speaker 1: one dictator threatening gulag, we now have all these rich

1862
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:19,599
Speaker 1: people who are just basically ripping off the government. So

1863
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:23,640
Speaker 1: it's no wonder that they didn't fully buy into democracy

1864
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:27,800
Speaker 1: as much as say we did here in the United States, which,

1865
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:30,200
Speaker 1: of course, oh, by the way, took quite a bit

1866
01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:32,640
Speaker 1: of time before we became a full democracy. Arguably it

1867
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:35,000
Speaker 1: took us all the way. Our founding was in seventeen

1868
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:37,560
Speaker 1: seventy six. We didn't become a full multi ethnic democracy

1869
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:44,200
Speaker 1: until nineteen sixty five. It's an important fact that we

1870
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:48,400
Speaker 1: sometimes forget when we criticize the inability of other countries

1871
01:51:48,479 --> 01:51:52,639
Speaker 1: to hurry up and have democracy ten years after an

1872
01:51:52,640 --> 01:52:02,040
Speaker 1: authoritarian regime falls. So I think you had millions of

1873
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 1: Russians who didn't believe that. Boy, this first these first

1874
01:52:05,160 --> 01:52:07,400
Speaker 1: few years of democracy don't look like don't look any

1875
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:10,160
Speaker 1: good to them. They're just creating rich dictators. And then

1876
01:52:10,479 --> 01:52:17,200
Speaker 1: the third sort of issue was the imperial identity didn't disappear, right,

1877
01:52:17,320 --> 01:52:20,320
Speaker 1: it just sort of and how do we know this?

1878
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:25,519
Speaker 1: See Vladimir Putin. And you also had some weirdness because

1879
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:28,439
Speaker 1: of the way the Soviet Union, Russians went and moved

1880
01:52:28,479 --> 01:52:30,880
Speaker 1: to other places. So you had this sort of a

1881
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:34,280
Speaker 1: lot of ethnic Russians who woke up suddenly outside of

1882
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 1: Russia's borders, right, former client states suddenly became sovereign neighbors,

1883
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:47,520
Speaker 1: and it just it just became it sapped the identity.

1884
01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:53,559
Speaker 1: And I think we we didn't fully appreciate that a

1885
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:58,040
Speaker 1: dictator or somebody with some charisma could quickly exploit that

1886
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:00,960
Speaker 1: loss of identity, right, And we've seen when you feel

1887
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 1: like you lose identity, you're more likely to you know,

1888
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:10,720
Speaker 1: not be a fan of democracy and instead follow a

1889
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:14,920
Speaker 1: follow a charismatic leader who will bring this back to you.

1890
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 1: So there were a few mistakes I think in hindsight

1891
01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:23,840
Speaker 1: that we didn't fully understand. Right. So the first choice

1892
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:25,639
Speaker 1: that still defined some of the debates that we're having

1893
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:27,400
Speaker 1: today with the fallow of the Soviet Union was the

1894
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:33,479
Speaker 1: expansion of NATO in the nineties. It was Eastern European

1895
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:36,320
Speaker 1: nations that wanted in on NATO because they feared Russia

1896
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:40,360
Speaker 1: essentially reformulating into it into an empire again. So you

1897
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:45,280
Speaker 1: had Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic. You know, their long

1898
01:53:45,439 --> 01:53:48,799
Speaker 1: history is of a very hostile Russia as a neighbor,

1899
01:53:49,240 --> 01:53:53,920
Speaker 1: and they wanted some security, so they wanted in on NATO.

1900
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:56,920
Speaker 1: And you know, there was a lot of people on

1901
01:53:56,960 --> 01:53:59,880
Speaker 1: the pro NATO side that thought, okay, bringing NATO, bringing

1902
01:53:59,880 --> 01:54:02,519
Speaker 1: the these countries into NATO will lock in democratic reforms

1903
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 1: in these countries, which for the most part it actually did.

1904
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:09,240
Speaker 1: Prevents a security vacuum, which in those and many of

1905
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:11,720
Speaker 1: the countries it did and reassure nations that had been

1906
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:15,800
Speaker 1: invaded before. But there were some warnings. George Kennan right,

1907
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:18,040
Speaker 1: who was famous to be the architect of the Cold

1908
01:54:18,040 --> 01:54:23,479
Speaker 1: War containment strategy, he'd argued that NATO expansion would be

1909
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,200
Speaker 1: a tragic mistake and he believed it would humiliate Russia

1910
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:29,000
Speaker 1: at its weakest moment, that that was a mistake. It

1911
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:32,520
Speaker 1: would strengthen nationalistic forces. Well we've seen that that has

1912
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,800
Speaker 1: been true, and it would redefine Russia as a permanent outsider. Now,

1913
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:40,000
Speaker 1: there were those pro NATO expansionists who thought someday Russia

1914
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:42,440
Speaker 1: might be a part of NATO, and a small, d

1915
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:45,880
Speaker 1: democratic Russia would indeed be a part of NATO. Hey,

1916
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:48,800
Speaker 1: guess what, we're thirty years in. Anything can happen. Okay,

1917
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:52,000
Speaker 1: It's not as if any of us thought that the

1918
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,080
Speaker 1: former Yugoslavia would just disappear off the face of the earth, right,

1919
01:54:55,160 --> 01:54:59,720
Speaker 1: So these things happen. The other decision that came in

1920
01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:01,480
Speaker 1: the way of the fall of the Soviet Union was

1921
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:03,840
Speaker 1: the decision by Ukraine to give up its nukes, which

1922
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:07,000
Speaker 1: now I wonder how many Ukrainians think this was a mistake.

1923
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:12,280
Speaker 1: Ukraine possessed at one time the world's third largest nuclear arsenal,

1924
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:16,040
Speaker 1: but under the Buddhapest Memorandum, it agreed that if they

1925
01:55:16,120 --> 01:55:18,960
Speaker 1: got rid of essentially got rid of their nukes, they

1926
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:22,360
Speaker 1: would receive security assurances, but they didn't get binding guarantees.

1927
01:55:23,600 --> 01:55:26,120
Speaker 1: That would be a problem, right, you want the guarantee

1928
01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:31,800
Speaker 1: on the box, as my friend and Tommy Boy once said. So, Look,

1929
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:35,560
Speaker 1: we were all in favor of non proliferation. The fall

1930
01:55:35,640 --> 01:55:38,240
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union made everybody feel as if nuclear

1931
01:55:38,280 --> 01:55:42,200
Speaker 1: confrontation was going away anyway. So the fear was loose nukes,

1932
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:46,800
Speaker 1: and so the fear was, hey, consolidate, get his try

1933
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:50,880
Speaker 1: to get these weapons out of these sort of smaller

1934
01:55:51,480 --> 01:55:55,320
Speaker 1: former Russian Soviet republics. As you didn't want this stuff

1935
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:57,480
Speaker 1: ending up in the black market, ending up in the

1936
01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 1: hands of non state actors. Except and it seemed to

1937
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:10,839
Speaker 1: make sense on arguably now and until Ukraine was invaded

1938
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:15,320
Speaker 1: by Russia. Right, that suddenly now seems like how it

1939
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:18,480
Speaker 1: was done. Now part of it was looks like Ukraine

1940
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:21,120
Speaker 1: didn't ask for enough in return. You give up nukes,

1941
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:26,000
Speaker 1: NATO membership, hard stop. Right, That ultimately, in hindsight, should

1942
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 1: have been what the deal was. So what did the

1943
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:33,240
Speaker 1: end of history really cost us? Well, the biggest mistake

1944
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:36,600
Speaker 1: wasn't NATO expansion, It wasn't Ukraine's nuclear decision, It wasn't

1945
01:56:36,600 --> 01:56:40,120
Speaker 1: even the economic shock. The mistake was assuming that direction

1946
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:45,120
Speaker 1: was destiny. We confused the absence of our ideological rival

1947
01:56:45,480 --> 01:56:50,440
Speaker 1: with the presence of stability. We treated legitimacy as an inevitability,

1948
01:56:50,920 --> 01:56:54,480
Speaker 1: and we underestimated how long it takes societies, not systems,

1949
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:59,400
Speaker 1: but societies to change. Even Fukuyama himself acknowledged that nationalism,

1950
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 1: identity and how our politics never disappeared. They just simply

1951
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,320
Speaker 1: went dormant. And that's what we've seen, Right, we're seeing

1952
01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:08,120
Speaker 1: a rise of nationalism that looks like we're repeating the

1953
01:57:08,200 --> 01:57:11,160
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties and thirties here in this country and in

1954
01:57:11,240 --> 01:57:15,200
Speaker 1: Europe and frankly around the world. It's a reminder this

1955
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:19,000
Speaker 1: stuff is dormant. It never goes away. So it's a

1956
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:26,880
Speaker 1: reminder that history as a way, histories don't necessarily end, right,

1957
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 1: It's that we just sort of stopped chronicling of them sometimes.

1958
01:57:31,400 --> 01:57:33,320
Speaker 1: And this is where I want to leave you, and

1959
01:57:33,440 --> 01:57:36,680
Speaker 1: that this story isn't finished. We are very bad at

1960
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:39,720
Speaker 1: recognizing where we are in the story while we're living

1961
01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 1: in it. Take France, they failed at democracy repeatedly before succeeding. Right,

1962
01:57:45,040 --> 01:57:47,880
Speaker 1: France was an empire at one point Napoleon et cetera.

1963
01:57:48,440 --> 01:57:53,360
Speaker 1: Germany's first democratic experiment collapsed catastrophically. The weim are republic right,

1964
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:56,840
Speaker 1: even the United States, we required a civil war, reconstruction,

1965
01:57:57,680 --> 01:58:01,320
Speaker 1: multiple interventions, a contitutional Memen to give women the right

1966
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:03,600
Speaker 1: to vote. Right, we had all sorts of things we

1967
01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:07,680
Speaker 1: had to do before we could succeed as a democracy.

1968
01:58:08,640 --> 01:58:12,520
Speaker 1: So we're now thirty years right, a little more than

1969
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:16,520
Speaker 1: thirty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And

1970
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:18,080
Speaker 1: when you could look at it one way, you said, boy,

1971
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:19,840
Speaker 1: that was a failure, you could look at them another way.

1972
01:58:20,320 --> 01:58:24,200
Speaker 1: It's more successful than a failure. Or you could just

1973
01:58:24,240 --> 01:58:28,800
Speaker 1: say to yourself, do you judge history on a single generation,

1974
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:33,120
Speaker 1: because what if the following happens. What if in another

1975
01:58:33,160 --> 01:58:37,400
Speaker 1: thirty years this period looks like a painful but necessary transition.

1976
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,480
Speaker 1: If in another thirty years Russia is a stable democracy

1977
01:58:42,000 --> 01:58:47,240
Speaker 1: just like Germany. I mean, imagine asking Americans in nineteen

1978
01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:52,960
Speaker 1: forty four and telling them that Germany would be this robust,

1979
01:58:53,240 --> 01:59:00,000
Speaker 1: small deed democratic leader of Europe in partnership with Franks.

1980
01:59:00,040 --> 01:59:04,120
Speaker 1: It's in the UK right. It would have seemed unbelievable

1981
01:59:04,160 --> 01:59:08,920
Speaker 1: to Americans in nineteen forty four, let alone Europeans right,

1982
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:12,520
Speaker 1: and essentially within two generations that is what happened. And

1983
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:15,120
Speaker 1: we're only one generation removed from the fall of the

1984
01:59:15,120 --> 01:59:17,720
Speaker 1: Soviet Union. So it's likely we're in the middle of

1985
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 1: this and i'd like to I hope to see the

1986
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:24,160
Speaker 1: end of this story, but I don't think we've seen

1987
01:59:24,160 --> 01:59:26,240
Speaker 1: the end of this story. It's likely that my son

1988
01:59:26,280 --> 01:59:29,480
Speaker 1: and daughter will see the end of this story. It's

1989
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:33,240
Speaker 1: also possible we see a reemergence of another empire before

1990
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:39,200
Speaker 1: we have another another shot at a democracy. Look, Germany

1991
01:59:39,240 --> 01:59:43,800
Speaker 1: went through this multiple times. France went through this multiple times,

1992
01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:49,040
Speaker 1: and again so did we. So it's thirty plus years.

1993
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:52,000
Speaker 1: The fall of the Soviet Union wasn't the end of history.

1994
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:56,440
Speaker 1: It was literally a pivot. It was another It was

1995
01:59:56,480 --> 01:59:59,520
Speaker 1: a fork in the road, and we went down the

1996
01:59:59,560 --> 02:00:06,360
Speaker 1: democrac see fork pretty strongly. We're drifting right now. There

1997
02:00:06,440 --> 02:00:09,600
Speaker 1: is an authoritarian movement lurking out there, but we're also

1998
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:13,360
Speaker 1: only thirty years removed. And if things turn out to

1999
02:00:13,400 --> 02:00:16,960
Speaker 1: be in a more small, d democratic place around the

2000
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:20,680
Speaker 1: world in the next thirty to fifty years, then this

2001
02:00:20,800 --> 02:00:22,920
Speaker 1: period that we're all living in the moment that feels

2002
02:00:23,000 --> 02:00:28,280
Speaker 1: very unstable will simply be seen as oh, just a

2003
02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:32,440
Speaker 1: couple of bumps in the road on the way to

2004
02:00:32,600 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 1: what was the ultimate destiny. So there you go. There's

2005
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:41,320
Speaker 1: your history lesson and the toodcast time machine for this week.

2006
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:50,920
Speaker 1: So that let's get in a few questions ask Chuck.

2007
02:00:55,000 --> 02:00:58,560
Speaker 1: First question comes from Randall from across the Atlantic. Any writs,

2008
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:01,960
Speaker 1: Hey check, I'm a butcher and barbecue enthusiasts from Europe

2009
02:01:02,040 --> 02:01:04,440
Speaker 1: and your podcast is part of my weekly routine. Working

2010
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:06,600
Speaker 1: with food and people reminds me how much community, trust

2011
02:01:06,720 --> 02:01:09,640
Speaker 1: and shared traditions matter, especially around Christmas. So my question is,

2012
02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:11,560
Speaker 1: what do you think is historically made the bond between

2013
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:13,080
Speaker 1: the US and Europe so strong, and why does it

2014
02:01:13,120 --> 02:01:15,440
Speaker 1: feel like such a loss that we're letting that connection

2015
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:17,840
Speaker 1: fade at a time when the world needs more shared

2016
02:01:17,920 --> 02:01:20,240
Speaker 1: values and good will. Greetings from Leiden in the Netherlands

2017
02:01:20,440 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 1: from what may be your most loyal, barbecue loving butcher

2018
02:01:23,320 --> 02:01:26,120
Speaker 1: across the Atlantic. I love that, and I'd love to

2019
02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:30,680
Speaker 1: be trying some Nordic barbecue. Go to northern Europe for barbecue.

2020
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:34,360
Speaker 1: I love this. Who's to say you can't cook over

2021
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:39,120
Speaker 1: a hot flame with some good sauces anywhere around this globe.

2022
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:41,800
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Look, I think it's obvious why we have

2023
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:45,360
Speaker 1: why we should feel as if we have more shared values?

2024
02:01:46,240 --> 02:01:51,240
Speaker 1: Right we were are The first rounds of immigrants into

2025
02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:54,000
Speaker 1: this country came from Europe, right all over Europe. First

2026
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,760
Speaker 1: Western Europe, then we sort of moved to Central Europe.

2027
02:01:56,760 --> 02:01:59,640
Speaker 1: Then it became Eastern Europe, etc. Right, And in some ways,

2028
02:01:59,800 --> 02:02:02,160
Speaker 1: this whole thing has always moved around the globe. America

2029
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:05,760
Speaker 1: has been at first a magnet for Europe. Then it

2030
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:09,360
Speaker 1: became a magnet. You know, all of the Americas were

2031
02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:12,760
Speaker 1: a magnet for Europe by the way, right, South America

2032
02:02:12,920 --> 02:02:18,040
Speaker 1: magnet from from Western Europe as well. And then you know,

2033
02:02:19,080 --> 02:02:22,320
Speaker 1: it sort of kept moving around the globe, and you

2034
02:02:22,360 --> 02:02:26,040
Speaker 1: know in some ways that I think that's that's the

2035
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:32,400
Speaker 1: shortest answer. And there's some shared religious traditions, right, shared

2036
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, shared traditions in general. I just take the

2037
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:39,160
Speaker 1: Christmas season in some ways, the Santa Claus I believe

2038
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 1: essentially was a Northern European uh phenomenon that migrated its

2039
02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 1: way around the globe and for all of us, and

2040
02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:55,640
Speaker 1: certainly became another shared symbol, if you will, between Europe

2041
02:02:55,640 --> 02:02:58,480
Speaker 1: and America. But you know, I think that's you know,

2042
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:01,440
Speaker 1: I think that's why we have such a historical bond.

2043
02:03:02,200 --> 02:03:05,560
Speaker 1: I think for those of us of a certain age,

2044
02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:09,920
Speaker 1: our parents and grandparents, you know, the two big wars

2045
02:03:09,920 --> 02:03:14,120
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century are still are still sort of

2046
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:18,200
Speaker 1: in our recent memory. And by the way, and again

2047
02:03:18,240 --> 02:03:20,840
Speaker 1: there's sort of dovetails with the history lesson, which is

2048
02:03:21,120 --> 02:03:25,000
Speaker 1: sometimes we forget where we are, and that we sometimes

2049
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:27,200
Speaker 1: forget that the moment we're living in we may be

2050
02:03:27,400 --> 02:03:30,680
Speaker 1: just in the middle of an historical epoch, if you will, Right,

2051
02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:33,560
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of something that if we stuck

2052
02:03:33,560 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 1: around another hundred years, it would be more understandable. I've

2053
02:03:37,960 --> 02:03:40,360
Speaker 1: always said, I can't wait to see what political scientists

2054
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 1: and social scientists say about the era that I'm living

2055
02:03:43,600 --> 02:03:47,400
Speaker 1: in now. Fifty years from now. Maybe I'll be coherent

2056
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:49,360
Speaker 1: and alive at one hundred and three, and it'll be

2057
02:03:49,480 --> 02:03:52,080
Speaker 1: really interesting to read some of these political science journals

2058
02:03:52,160 --> 02:03:55,280
Speaker 1: or have them embedded in a brain chip in my brain,

2059
02:03:55,360 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 1: whatever ai version of learning is that we use then.

2060
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:04,400
Speaker 1: So I don't want to cop out, if you will,

2061
02:04:04,400 --> 02:04:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to use that as a cop out,

2062
02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:07,800
Speaker 1: but it is. It is a little bit I think

2063
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:14,000
Speaker 1: we I wonder the further away I mean we're seeing

2064
02:04:14,040 --> 02:04:16,520
Speaker 1: it now, right, the further away. World War two is

2065
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:19,440
Speaker 1: the further away. The Cold War is the further away

2066
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:27,240
Speaker 1: these moments that did bound us, you know, where we

2067
02:04:27,320 --> 02:04:30,880
Speaker 1: had to stick together to fight for our values, not

2068
02:04:31,040 --> 02:04:35,200
Speaker 1: just for something, not just for something tangible like land

2069
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:38,360
Speaker 1: or resources. We're really fighting for our values, particularly with

2070
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:42,560
Speaker 1: World War Two. The further that gets away, the more

2071
02:04:43,720 --> 02:04:46,240
Speaker 1: the more detached we get from it. And I think

2072
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:49,440
Speaker 1: actually the less likely we'll see we'll see some of

2073
02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:52,760
Speaker 1: those bonds, you know, you see it now, right, Once

2074
02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:55,839
Speaker 1: you get to third or fourth generation away from something

2075
02:04:56,880 --> 02:04:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, you lose the bond to that, and you

2076
02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:03,440
Speaker 1: sort of your identity becomes more formed by the president

2077
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:08,840
Speaker 1: or by the very very recent pass And I wish

2078
02:05:08,880 --> 02:05:12,240
Speaker 1: I could felt like I fear I'm not giving you

2079
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:20,800
Speaker 1: the intellectually the substance of an argument that you may

2080
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:25,480
Speaker 1: been looking for to give you a deeper answer in that.

2081
02:05:25,560 --> 02:05:28,360
Speaker 1: But that's I hope you see where I was going there.

2082
02:05:28,360 --> 02:05:31,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate the question right now. Next question comes from Brad.

2083
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:33,560
Speaker 1: He said this after afterr died, Congress took action to

2084
02:05:33,600 --> 02:05:35,760
Speaker 1: limit future presidents to do terms. Do you think that

2085
02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:37,920
Speaker 1: after the Trump era, Congress may limit the part in

2086
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:40,160
Speaker 1: power presidents since it was abused by Biden and Trump?

2087
02:05:40,200 --> 02:05:42,760
Speaker 1: And if so, what should the limits be specifically? Also,

2088
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:44,840
Speaker 1: what was the reason the founders allowed presidents to partner

2089
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:47,160
Speaker 1: anyone without any checks? Did they not think it would

2090
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:51,440
Speaker 1: ever be abused like this? Brad Well Brad I asked

2091
02:05:51,520 --> 02:05:54,440
Speaker 1: this question in a podcast interview I did with a

2092
02:05:54,520 --> 02:05:59,839
Speaker 1: historian for the woman who runs the George Washington Presidential Library.

2093
02:06:00,360 --> 02:06:03,440
Speaker 1: She's a founding Father's historian written a bunch of books, terrific,

2094
02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:07,880
Speaker 1: terrific historian Lindsay Schervinsky, Doctor Lindsay Shervinsky, and I asked

2095
02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:10,160
Speaker 1: her this very question. I said, I said, you know,

2096
02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:14,760
Speaker 1: the putting the pardon power in to the executive in

2097
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:18,440
Speaker 1: the Constitution. How did a whole group of men who

2098
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:24,440
Speaker 1: were essentially trying to resist a monarchy allow a power

2099
02:06:25,040 --> 02:06:28,560
Speaker 1: that a monarch had to be given to the executive,

2100
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:30,120
Speaker 1: which the whole point was not to allow him to

2101
02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:32,520
Speaker 1: become a king, But she gave him one king like power.

2102
02:06:33,520 --> 02:06:36,720
Speaker 1: And she didn't have a good explanation other than you

2103
02:06:36,760 --> 02:06:39,640
Speaker 1: know her, she joked, there's probably somebody at the Constitutional

2104
02:06:39,680 --> 02:06:43,640
Speaker 1: Convention that wanted to pardon and wanted to make sure

2105
02:06:43,640 --> 02:06:49,520
Speaker 1: that that possibility existed. I completely agree with you, Rad.

2106
02:06:49,560 --> 02:06:53,720
Speaker 1: I think that Allah. I think the FDR president is

2107
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:58,480
Speaker 1: the perfect precedent, right, just like the Kennedy assassination gave

2108
02:06:58,560 --> 02:07:01,920
Speaker 1: us the twenty fifth Amendment. We're like, WHOA, what would

2109
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:06,560
Speaker 1: have happened if he had survived but not been but

2110
02:07:06,680 --> 02:07:11,840
Speaker 1: not but had been incapacitated? And so look, there's nothing

2111
02:07:11,880 --> 02:07:15,920
Speaker 1: wrong with our constitution being reactive to the moment. It's like, frankly,

2112
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:19,360
Speaker 1: it's like how the college football playoff. Oh, maybe we

2113
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:23,440
Speaker 1: should have a different scenario in how we decide tiebreakers

2114
02:07:23,480 --> 02:07:25,840
Speaker 1: at the ACC. Right, you know, you sometimes have to

2115
02:07:25,880 --> 02:07:30,160
Speaker 1: see something happen to go, oh, we missed that loophole.

2116
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:35,520
Speaker 1: Let's close that loophole. So you had the two term

2117
02:07:35,560 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 1: issue with FDR, you had the incapacitation issue after the

2118
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 1: Kennedy assassination that gave us twenty fifth Amendment, And I

2119
02:07:42,160 --> 02:07:46,920
Speaker 1: absolutely believe we'll have something here. Look, I think a

2120
02:07:46,960 --> 02:07:52,080
Speaker 1: lot of states have pardon boards where there is where

2121
02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:56,160
Speaker 1: you know, where the governor has is sort of has

2122
02:07:56,560 --> 02:07:59,960
Speaker 1: has influenced, but he's just a vote, He's not the vote.

2123
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:03,200
Speaker 1: I think you could argue that you could create a

2124
02:08:03,240 --> 02:08:07,240
Speaker 1: presidential pardon board made up of you know, the chief

2125
02:08:07,400 --> 02:08:10,880
Speaker 1: Justice of the Supreme Court, you know, you know, and

2126
02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:14,760
Speaker 1: the two most senior justices including you know, not including

2127
02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:20,600
Speaker 1: the Chief Justice, maybe the the chairman of the Senate

2128
02:08:20,680 --> 02:08:24,680
Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee and the House Judiciary committees chairmen and ranking members.

2129
02:08:24,720 --> 02:08:27,760
Speaker 1: You know, you just create an eight eight person pardon board,

2130
02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:32,760
Speaker 1: six person pardon board of some sort and not have

2131
02:08:32,920 --> 02:08:38,800
Speaker 1: one person be able to do these things. There's no

2132
02:08:38,880 --> 02:08:43,840
Speaker 1: doubt this has been among and I think it's certainly

2133
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:49,360
Speaker 1: it's just been abused egregiously by Trump. Right, there's no

2134
02:08:49,640 --> 02:08:52,600
Speaker 1: and I think and I think you're right. It is

2135
02:08:52,960 --> 02:08:55,840
Speaker 1: easy to both sides this and to me a good

2136
02:08:55,840 --> 02:08:59,240
Speaker 1: way in order to try to get bipartisan support for

2137
02:08:59,280 --> 02:09:02,720
Speaker 1: you simply, let's just not let another president have this

2138
02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:06,560
Speaker 1: type of you know, the bottom line is norms or nothing. Right.

2139
02:09:06,600 --> 02:09:09,160
Speaker 1: It's just like we've had norms with this naming business,

2140
02:09:09,240 --> 02:09:11,520
Speaker 1: right Trump putting his name on Kennedy Center. It turns

2141
02:09:11,520 --> 02:09:15,440
Speaker 1: out there's no law. Right, there's just been norms. Right.

2142
02:09:15,480 --> 02:09:17,920
Speaker 1: We you know, we we kind of thought as a society. Boy,

2143
02:09:17,960 --> 02:09:21,440
Speaker 1: it's unseemly to elect current elected officials have stuff named

2144
02:09:21,440 --> 02:09:24,440
Speaker 1: after him. By the way, the state of Florida actually

2145
02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:28,480
Speaker 1: doesn't allow living doesn't allow anything in the state to

2146
02:09:28,520 --> 02:09:31,880
Speaker 1: be named after a living person. But if a local

2147
02:09:32,080 --> 02:09:35,360
Speaker 1: locality wants to do it, or if a university wants

2148
02:09:35,440 --> 02:09:38,960
Speaker 1: to do it, there are some exceptions, but that's it's

2149
02:09:39,000 --> 02:09:41,560
Speaker 1: in the state of Florida, and it all depends on

2150
02:09:41,600 --> 02:09:43,800
Speaker 1: how much influence the state has. So, for instance, there's

2151
02:09:43,800 --> 02:09:47,680
Speaker 1: some movement to rename the Palm Beach Airport after Donald Trump.

2152
02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:51,360
Speaker 1: I got to think, look, if if you've got to

2153
02:09:51,440 --> 02:09:54,680
Speaker 1: name something after him, sure make it the Palm Beach Airport.

2154
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:57,480
Speaker 1: Make him the you know, in some ways he is

2155
02:09:57,520 --> 02:10:01,320
Speaker 1: emblematic of that Palm Beach crowd, the good and the bad,

2156
02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:05,000
Speaker 1: the ugly, all of it together. I actually find it

2157
02:10:05,080 --> 02:10:07,320
Speaker 1: kind of appropriate if that were the airport that was

2158
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:10,040
Speaker 1: named after him. Right, he doesn't belong on Miami's airport.

2159
02:10:10,200 --> 02:10:13,680
Speaker 1: He has no association with Miami whatsoever in my opinion.

2160
02:10:13,720 --> 02:10:15,760
Speaker 1: But Palm Beach. Sure, He's always wanted to be the

2161
02:10:15,840 --> 02:10:17,640
Speaker 1: king of Palm Beach after since he couldn't be the

2162
02:10:17,680 --> 02:10:23,280
Speaker 1: king of Manhattan. So absolutely right, it's one of those

2163
02:10:23,320 --> 02:10:27,520
Speaker 1: in a weird way, it's perfectly fitting. But it turns

2164
02:10:27,560 --> 02:10:30,920
Speaker 1: out those were all norms, right, and there's really it's

2165
02:10:31,040 --> 02:10:33,400
Speaker 1: really hard, you know. Yes, Congress is the only one

2166
02:10:33,440 --> 02:10:35,920
Speaker 1: that can officially name the Kennedy Center. Congress is the

2167
02:10:35,920 --> 02:10:38,480
Speaker 1: only one that could officially decide what these names are.

2168
02:10:39,120 --> 02:10:42,680
Speaker 1: But you know, this is Trump sort of pushing, basically

2169
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:47,760
Speaker 1: daring Congress to use its authority if it wants to,

2170
02:10:47,840 --> 02:10:51,960
Speaker 1: and things like this. But the bottom line is, I

2171
02:10:52,000 --> 02:10:54,560
Speaker 1: think if the trump eras taught us anything that if

2172
02:10:54,560 --> 02:10:57,760
Speaker 1: there's a norm that we think there's eighty percent agreement

2173
02:10:57,800 --> 02:11:00,320
Speaker 1: on make it the letter of the law, either make

2174
02:11:00,360 --> 02:11:03,320
Speaker 1: it a constitutional amendment, or just simply pass along converse.

2175
02:11:03,760 --> 02:11:08,280
Speaker 1: But you can't just assume anything anymore because of the

2176
02:11:08,360 --> 02:11:12,480
Speaker 1: temptation to exploit and the fact that we have an

2177
02:11:12,480 --> 02:11:16,200
Speaker 1: American public that will not punish shamelessness the way I

2178
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:20,680
Speaker 1: think we all thought, right, the greatest power Donald Trump

2179
02:11:20,720 --> 02:11:26,320
Speaker 1: has is his power not to feel shame, which is

2180
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:28,360
Speaker 1: why we have to have certain laws on the books

2181
02:11:28,520 --> 02:11:33,440
Speaker 1: and certain amendments in our constitution. All right, Next question

2182
02:11:33,560 --> 02:11:37,280
Speaker 1: comes from It's a simple one, Christopher to Carla Long Island,

2183
02:11:37,320 --> 02:11:39,520
Speaker 1: New York. What do you think the GOP looks like

2184
02:11:39,560 --> 02:11:43,760
Speaker 1: if it loses in twenty twenty eight. I think it's

2185
02:11:43,800 --> 02:11:49,440
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit like the Democrats Serica

2186
02:11:49,560 --> 02:11:53,000
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. I think you will have a huge fight

2187
02:11:53,200 --> 02:11:57,560
Speaker 1: between multiple wings. You will have the sort of more

2188
02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:01,800
Speaker 1: call it the traditional wing of the party, but you

2189
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:04,640
Speaker 1: will have sort of I think you will have a

2190
02:12:04,720 --> 02:12:09,240
Speaker 1: more open warfare between sort of the what will feel

2191
02:12:09,320 --> 02:12:16,800
Speaker 1: like the aging mega populists. What is the the financial

2192
02:12:16,800 --> 02:12:19,360
Speaker 1: and business wing of the party, what I refer to

2193
02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:21,840
Speaker 1: sometimes as the Chamber of commerce wing. I think a

2194
02:12:22,480 --> 02:12:29,000
Speaker 1: loss by Vance or somebody else sufficiently considered Maga will

2195
02:12:29,680 --> 02:12:32,880
Speaker 1: embolden I think the business wing of the party to

2196
02:12:32,960 --> 02:12:36,120
Speaker 1: try to to try to reclaim some status, and you

2197
02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:44,000
Speaker 1: might see, you might even you might see a resurgent

2198
02:12:44,080 --> 02:12:48,080
Speaker 1: sort of libertarian wing. Right. I'm curious to see Rand

2199
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:52,000
Speaker 1: Paul's presidential campaign and how much traction it can get,

2200
02:12:52,280 --> 02:12:55,640
Speaker 1: how big is that faction inside the Republican Party, and

2201
02:12:55,720 --> 02:12:59,200
Speaker 1: could he tear pieces of the quote mega coalition away

2202
02:12:59,600 --> 02:13:05,000
Speaker 1: into some that's that So, you know, it may look

2203
02:13:05,040 --> 02:13:08,040
Speaker 1: a little bit like Democrats, and ninety may also look

2204
02:13:08,080 --> 02:13:12,920
Speaker 1: a little bit like what happened to Democrats after sixty eight, right,

2205
02:13:13,320 --> 02:13:15,840
Speaker 1: and when in Vietnam and it was you know, you

2206
02:13:15,880 --> 02:13:18,800
Speaker 1: had this, you know, suddenly the governance up, the nominee

2207
02:13:18,880 --> 02:13:23,600
Speaker 1: and you had sort of the southern conservative Democrats starting

2208
02:13:23,600 --> 02:13:30,600
Speaker 1: to totally splinter away. So I think it's a combination

2209
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:36,440
Speaker 1: of sort of the chaos that the Democrats had going

2210
02:13:36,440 --> 02:13:39,240
Speaker 1: into the seventy two presidential campaign, so from seventy to

2211
02:13:39,280 --> 02:13:45,680
Speaker 1: seventy two, and the chaos the Democrats had after the

2212
02:13:45,840 --> 02:13:49,040
Speaker 1: eighty eight Ducaccus debacle in sort of nine that was

2213
02:13:49,040 --> 02:13:52,320
Speaker 1: represented by sort of the fight between Bill proxy arguments

2214
02:13:52,320 --> 02:13:57,120
Speaker 1: and fights between Bill Clinton and Jesse Jackson, something akin

2215
02:13:57,200 --> 02:14:03,680
Speaker 1: to that. I think it will look less like the

2216
02:14:03,720 --> 02:14:09,480
Speaker 1: fight in fifty two between sort of the Eisenhower wing

2217
02:14:09,560 --> 02:14:11,840
Speaker 1: and the Taft wing of the party. I think. I

2218
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:15,320
Speaker 1: think in some ways that was the previous debate that

2219
02:14:16,200 --> 02:14:18,720
Speaker 1: in this time the Taft wing won the fight, which

2220
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:22,040
Speaker 1: got represented by Trump. I think this one it will

2221
02:14:22,080 --> 02:14:24,880
Speaker 1: be a fight to even just what is conservative right.

2222
02:14:24,920 --> 02:14:27,360
Speaker 1: It'll be a I hope it's an I hope it's

2223
02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:32,240
Speaker 1: an intellectual debate rather than a personality or influencer debate.

2224
02:14:32,320 --> 02:14:35,280
Speaker 1: I think it could be. I think, what kind of

2225
02:14:35,280 --> 02:14:38,480
Speaker 1: debate does it end up being? Right? Is it one

2226
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:42,360
Speaker 1: defined by cult of personality or one defined by actual

2227
02:14:42,400 --> 02:14:48,720
Speaker 1: ideological disagreement? And that that, to me is what I

2228
02:14:48,760 --> 02:14:52,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't I don't. That's an unknown here, and until we

2229
02:14:52,560 --> 02:14:55,560
Speaker 1: knew that part of it, that will shape what the

2230
02:14:55,560 --> 02:14:57,880
Speaker 1: debate itself looks like. All right? Last question comes from

2231
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:00,520
Speaker 1: David S. Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Chuck, big fan of

2232
02:15:00,520 --> 02:15:02,760
Speaker 1: the podcast. I was surprised and delighted to discover your

2233
02:15:03,400 --> 02:15:06,880
Speaker 1: Meet the Press era tops trading cards while searching for merch. Oh, yes,

2234
02:15:07,520 --> 02:15:11,080
Speaker 1: Alan and Ginter twenty fourteen. My friend anyway, he goes,

2235
02:15:11,120 --> 02:15:12,920
Speaker 1: I picked up a Chuck Todd relic card on eBay.

2236
02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 1: That's cool, I thought, my I have a friend from

2237
02:15:15,680 --> 02:15:17,520
Speaker 1: high school who swore he spot all of them that

2238
02:15:17,600 --> 02:15:22,400
Speaker 1: almost put together. I gave him a tie tops, a

2239
02:15:22,520 --> 02:15:25,720
Speaker 1: tie to cut up. And so there's a couple of

2240
02:15:25,800 --> 02:15:28,760
Speaker 1: like very rare items. You can get a relic of

2241
02:15:28,800 --> 02:15:32,520
Speaker 1: my a red tie. So don't trust me. I did

2242
02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:34,800
Speaker 1: you know there's nothing lamer than getting a relic card

2243
02:15:34,800 --> 02:15:37,240
Speaker 1: that's just like a piece of white or gray jersey.

2244
02:15:37,760 --> 02:15:39,360
Speaker 1: I made sure to give a red tie from my

2245
02:15:39,480 --> 02:15:43,720
Speaker 1: relic card. And then there's some you know, number to ten.

2246
02:15:43,840 --> 02:15:47,120
Speaker 1: I think autograph cards still that are out there. They

2247
02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:50,200
Speaker 1: can get a little premium on that. Anyway, He says

2248
02:15:50,200 --> 02:15:52,000
Speaker 1: this as a fellow sports card collector, I'd love to

2249
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:54,040
Speaker 1: hear about your experience working with tops. Also curious how

2250
02:15:54,040 --> 02:15:55,880
Speaker 1: you see the hobby today. Does it still feel like

2251
02:15:55,880 --> 02:16:00,000
Speaker 1: collecting or has it crossed into unregulated gambling? Man, we're

2252
02:16:00,000 --> 02:16:03,640
Speaker 1: we're gamifying. We're gamblifying everything. Aren't we were gamblifying politics

2253
02:16:03,720 --> 02:16:07,960
Speaker 1: or gambling. We're taking sports to a whole new level. Yes,

2254
02:16:08,120 --> 02:16:13,680
Speaker 1: there's some. In fact, I fully, I fully confess to

2255
02:16:15,840 --> 02:16:19,920
Speaker 1: viewing some of my sports card speculating. I don't call

2256
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:23,120
Speaker 1: this part collecting. I collect but then I have a

2257
02:16:23,160 --> 02:16:26,200
Speaker 1: fun time speculating. But I view it as instead of

2258
02:16:26,280 --> 02:16:32,240
Speaker 1: buying a long term future. I'll give you an example,

2259
02:16:32,240 --> 02:16:35,560
Speaker 1: instead of buying a long term future at the beginning

2260
02:16:35,560 --> 02:16:38,120
Speaker 1: of the season on the Denver Broncos winning the Super Bowl,

2261
02:16:38,600 --> 02:16:40,600
Speaker 1: where if they don't win the Super Bowl, your ticket

2262
02:16:40,640 --> 02:16:45,720
Speaker 1: is worthless. You instead buy bonus, you know, a high

2263
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:50,040
Speaker 1: end Bonix rookie card, because your ticket won't be worth

2264
02:16:50,160 --> 02:16:53,320
Speaker 1: zero if they fail. But you can also you will

2265
02:16:53,320 --> 02:16:55,480
Speaker 1: benefit if they actually do go on that Super Bowl

2266
02:16:55,560 --> 02:16:58,440
Speaker 1: run and you have an opportunity to cash out multiple

2267
02:16:58,480 --> 02:17:04,480
Speaker 1: times before. So I confess that I have I have

2268
02:17:04,959 --> 02:17:09,400
Speaker 1: taken one part of my sports card fandom because I

2269
02:17:09,520 --> 02:17:12,840
Speaker 1: look at it this way. I'm trying to minimize how

2270
02:17:12,879 --> 02:17:15,360
Speaker 1: much money I spend on my sports card collecting, and

2271
02:17:15,400 --> 02:17:19,760
Speaker 1: I use I basically side hustle my way to try

2272
02:17:19,800 --> 02:17:23,879
Speaker 1: to cut the costs of what this is. So I

2273
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:27,000
Speaker 1: do submit cards for grading and sell them on the side.

2274
02:17:27,080 --> 02:17:29,000
Speaker 1: And you can you know, I'm not going to tell

2275
02:17:29,000 --> 02:17:31,480
Speaker 1: you I don't. I really have been careful. I don't

2276
02:17:31,520 --> 02:17:34,959
Speaker 1: want to combine my side hustle on sports cards with

2277
02:17:35,080 --> 02:17:39,760
Speaker 1: the podcast. I just haven't done that. As for Tops, look,

2278
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:44,560
Speaker 1: I I'll tell you my experience. All of everything you've

2279
02:17:44,560 --> 02:17:46,240
Speaker 1: ever read on the back of a card is true.

2280
02:17:46,720 --> 02:17:49,560
Speaker 1: A Tops representative, I remember that came to Rockefeller Center,

2281
02:17:51,640 --> 02:17:53,800
Speaker 1: New York. That was in New York day. They brought

2282
02:17:53,800 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 1: all the cards. They stayed in my office while I

2283
02:17:56,720 --> 02:18:01,160
Speaker 1: signed every card I promised to sign, did all that.

2284
02:18:01,280 --> 02:18:03,520
Speaker 1: They witnessed the whole time. Then he takes it, he

2285
02:18:03,600 --> 02:18:05,640
Speaker 1: puts it, and he takes it away. It wasn't like

2286
02:18:05,920 --> 02:18:08,760
Speaker 1: he left it with me, wasn't shipped and said, hey,

2287
02:18:08,760 --> 02:18:11,320
Speaker 1: can you sign this and send it back. He really

2288
02:18:11,360 --> 02:18:15,520
Speaker 1: did witness me doing everything on that front. So I

2289
02:18:15,640 --> 02:18:18,440
Speaker 1: viewed it as a great experience. Look, I'm a I'm

2290
02:18:18,440 --> 02:18:20,959
Speaker 1: an institutionalist with some means. I love me some Tops,

2291
02:18:23,320 --> 02:18:30,680
Speaker 1: and you know Tops is a reliable brand. I've I'm always, though,

2292
02:18:30,720 --> 02:18:36,760
Speaker 1: worried about market consolidation because market consolidation usually panealizes people

2293
02:18:36,800 --> 02:18:40,480
Speaker 1: like you and me, right, and everything has gotten more

2294
02:18:40,520 --> 02:18:45,240
Speaker 1: expensive since things have gotten consolidated. I do think the

2295
02:18:47,920 --> 02:18:52,119
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that if there ever is I

2296
02:18:52,160 --> 02:18:56,200
Speaker 1: think that Fanatics, who is now the parent company of

2297
02:18:56,240 --> 02:19:02,160
Speaker 1: tops Is, is going to get scrutiny at some point

2298
02:19:02,320 --> 02:19:07,760
Speaker 1: from a more robust government agency. They're not nobody's getting

2299
02:19:07,760 --> 02:19:09,880
Speaker 1: that kind of scrutiny now because it's pay to play.

2300
02:19:10,240 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 1: Were living in a pay to play. But if we

2301
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:16,160
Speaker 1: ever get back to a more traditional way of trying

2302
02:19:16,200 --> 02:19:21,959
Speaker 1: to question consolidated power, trying to regulate these things, I

2303
02:19:21,959 --> 02:19:25,120
Speaker 1: think Fanatics could could you know whether they you know

2304
02:19:26,400 --> 02:19:28,960
Speaker 1: the fact that they have the exclusive license and only

2305
02:19:29,000 --> 02:19:32,960
Speaker 1: they can produce these products, so they can set the market.

2306
02:19:36,280 --> 02:19:39,520
Speaker 1: They can, they can sort of really they they they

2307
02:19:39,520 --> 02:19:44,800
Speaker 1: decide supply and demand, right I have it doesn't feel

2308
02:19:44,840 --> 02:19:48,440
Speaker 1: like it does feel like they're building a monopoly. And

2309
02:19:48,600 --> 02:19:53,240
Speaker 1: I'll I think Pannini hasn't been very good at articulating

2310
02:19:53,240 --> 02:19:57,960
Speaker 1: its case or taking its They've yet to find they've

2311
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:01,280
Speaker 1: how they've gone about it. I think it's been very poor.

2312
02:20:01,400 --> 02:20:03,920
Speaker 1: But at some point I think you'll have some better

2313
02:20:04,520 --> 02:20:08,080
Speaker 1: loaurying there and you'll get a judge that's a bit

2314
02:20:08,120 --> 02:20:11,160
Speaker 1: more empathetic and a little skeptical of the consolidation that

2315
02:20:11,480 --> 02:20:15,199
Speaker 1: Fanatics has successfully pulled off here in the sports card market,

2316
02:20:16,520 --> 02:20:21,119
Speaker 1: especially as there's more money involved, right, I say that,

2317
02:20:21,360 --> 02:20:26,240
Speaker 1: I'm I like that Fanatics has taken sports card collecting

2318
02:20:26,280 --> 02:20:28,680
Speaker 1: and made it more mainstream. Right, So that's a good

2319
02:20:28,720 --> 02:20:30,959
Speaker 1: thing that they have done with the hobby that they

2320
02:20:30,959 --> 02:20:33,760
Speaker 1: have made it. They have sort of cleaned things up

2321
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:37,280
Speaker 1: a little bit. I think quality control has gotten better,

2322
02:20:39,240 --> 02:20:45,560
Speaker 1: But there is a it does feel like there's a

2323
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:49,120
Speaker 1: haves and have not aspect to card collecting. Now, if

2324
02:20:49,200 --> 02:20:51,840
Speaker 1: you've got some money, you can get access to really

2325
02:20:51,879 --> 02:20:53,760
Speaker 1: cool cards. If you don't have a lot of money,

2326
02:20:53,879 --> 02:20:56,160
Speaker 1: you can't. You know that In the way I grew

2327
02:20:56,200 --> 02:20:57,920
Speaker 1: up with them, right, we all sort of had the

2328
02:20:57,959 --> 02:21:02,039
Speaker 1: same access certainly. You know, maybe one family could afford

2329
02:21:02,080 --> 02:21:04,440
Speaker 1: to buy more packs of cards, but we were all

2330
02:21:04,480 --> 02:21:07,320
Speaker 1: buying the same packs of cards. But literally, there are

2331
02:21:07,320 --> 02:21:10,320
Speaker 1: now packs of cards simply for the super wealthy, and

2332
02:21:10,360 --> 02:21:14,280
Speaker 1: then there are packs of cards for everybody else. You know.

2333
02:21:14,720 --> 02:21:17,400
Speaker 1: Right now we call them plaster boxes, and then you

2334
02:21:17,440 --> 02:21:21,240
Speaker 1: have hobby boxes and stuff like that. But it's it's

2335
02:21:21,720 --> 02:21:26,720
Speaker 1: that is a you know, is there is there a

2336
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:31,320
Speaker 1: point where there's too many velvet ropes around card collecting,

2337
02:21:31,680 --> 02:21:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, and that's I think there's there's still got

2338
02:21:34,680 --> 02:21:37,080
Speaker 1: to be a lottery ticket aspect to it. You know,

2339
02:21:37,480 --> 02:21:39,879
Speaker 1: there's and you've probably seen the news of an A

2340
02:21:39,959 --> 02:21:43,320
Speaker 1: Tani card that got sold for a certain amount of money,

2341
02:21:43,360 --> 02:21:46,520
Speaker 1: but just it took a lot of money to have

2342
02:21:46,600 --> 02:21:53,880
Speaker 1: even access to getting that card. And uh, I'm not

2343
02:21:53,920 --> 02:21:57,240
Speaker 1: as anti breaking as some are. I don't participate in

2344
02:21:57,480 --> 02:22:00,520
Speaker 1: breaks or anything like that. That's how I want to

2345
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:03,440
Speaker 1: spend my time. And if you're wondering what the hell

2346
02:22:03,480 --> 02:22:07,119
Speaker 1: breaking is, go look it up. I'm not gonna But essentially,

2347
02:22:07,160 --> 02:22:11,200
Speaker 1: it's instead of it's another way of you know, it's

2348
02:22:11,200 --> 02:22:14,360
Speaker 1: sort of another That's the way the influencer world works.

2349
02:22:14,520 --> 02:22:18,039
Speaker 1: Like buy a case of cards and say, hey, I

2350
02:22:18,120 --> 02:22:21,040
Speaker 1: will I will give you all the Dodgers in this case,

2351
02:22:21,240 --> 02:22:24,000
Speaker 1: and I'm going to sell the Dodgers for you know,

2352
02:22:24,120 --> 02:22:27,280
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty dollars and you may get that'll

2353
02:22:27,320 --> 02:22:29,440
Speaker 1: be awesome. I'll also give you all the White Sox

2354
02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:31,600
Speaker 1: cards in this case. You may sell that for sixty

2355
02:22:31,680 --> 02:22:35,160
Speaker 1: dollars and you'll get all the White Socks. You may

2356
02:22:35,160 --> 02:22:37,920
Speaker 1: get a lot of Frank Thomas autographs, and you may

2357
02:22:37,959 --> 02:22:40,280
Speaker 1: get a lot of show Hey O Tommy right, or

2358
02:22:40,520 --> 02:22:43,000
Speaker 1: but if but if show Tony's in an Angel's uniform,

2359
02:22:43,040 --> 02:22:47,199
Speaker 1: the person who bought the Angels slot will get the card,

2360
02:22:47,280 --> 02:22:50,360
Speaker 1: not the person who bought the Dodger slot. So it's

2361
02:22:50,400 --> 02:22:52,760
Speaker 1: an interesting way to sell. I think that's you know.

2362
02:22:52,800 --> 02:22:55,920
Speaker 1: To me, that's just you know, interesting retail capitalism and

2363
02:22:56,640 --> 02:22:59,240
Speaker 1: the market behaving the way a market should, coming up

2364
02:22:59,280 --> 02:23:03,320
Speaker 1: with unique ways to slice and dice the cards. So

2365
02:23:03,360 --> 02:23:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm not as anti gambling as others are. I do

2366
02:23:05,720 --> 02:23:09,600
Speaker 1: think it's very It adds to the speculation. It is,

2367
02:23:09,720 --> 02:23:12,320
Speaker 1: in theory, a cheaper way to get a bigger card.

2368
02:23:13,240 --> 02:23:18,440
Speaker 1: But you your odds are still pretty the odds are

2369
02:23:18,560 --> 02:23:20,920
Speaker 1: still not very much in your favor, and in some

2370
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:24,280
Speaker 1: cases could be even worse. So because you don't you

2371
02:23:24,320 --> 02:23:26,600
Speaker 1: don't get you're better off buying the whole case yourself,

2372
02:23:26,600 --> 02:23:28,280
Speaker 1: because even if it's a card for a team you

2373
02:23:28,280 --> 02:23:31,120
Speaker 1: didn't like, at least do you have a chance to

2374
02:23:31,120 --> 02:23:32,920
Speaker 1: get your money back selling it's somebody else and they

2375
02:23:33,000 --> 02:23:36,240
Speaker 1: want it. I got a little rambling there, because I

2376
02:23:36,640 --> 02:23:39,240
Speaker 1: do enjoy it, I do care about it. I do

2377
02:23:41,440 --> 02:23:44,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of it as a side hustle, but

2378
02:23:44,360 --> 02:23:48,400
Speaker 1: primarily just to support my collecting, and I have some

2379
02:23:48,480 --> 02:23:52,760
Speaker 1: fun things that I love collect. I collect certain players,

2380
02:23:52,800 --> 02:23:55,920
Speaker 1: or collect a lot of maxtures, or collect each hero.

2381
02:23:56,320 --> 02:24:02,720
Speaker 1: I collect Greg Maddox, and I collect Sandykofax and Roy Campano.

2382
02:24:04,160 --> 02:24:08,640
Speaker 1: But then I love like Super Old Basketball. You know,

2383
02:24:08,680 --> 02:24:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm always I'm always on the hunt for interesting George

2384
02:24:11,640 --> 02:24:13,440
Speaker 1: Mike and cards. You know, I just sort of like,

2385
02:24:13,640 --> 02:24:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, little little nuggets like that. One of my

2386
02:24:16,160 --> 02:24:18,920
Speaker 1: favorite sets that I built was the nineteen fifty five

2387
02:24:19,000 --> 02:24:24,320
Speaker 1: College Football card set All American Set. Wizard White is

2388
02:24:24,360 --> 02:24:28,280
Speaker 1: in that set, former Supreme Court justice. So anyway, as

2389
02:24:28,320 --> 02:24:32,760
Speaker 1: you he just he just touched the nerd button on

2390
02:24:32,879 --> 02:24:36,120
Speaker 1: me obviously, So yes, I've just given you a little

2391
02:24:36,160 --> 02:24:41,080
Speaker 1: bit more. But please, I do not I do not

2392
02:24:41,240 --> 02:24:43,400
Speaker 1: want to mix too much of the card world into

2393
02:24:43,480 --> 02:24:46,640
Speaker 1: the political world, because I I don't like it anytime

2394
02:24:46,640 --> 02:24:49,280
Speaker 1: I've heard, you know, for the most part, any most

2395
02:24:49,280 --> 02:24:51,840
Speaker 1: of the stuff I consume in the card world, by

2396
02:24:51,840 --> 02:24:54,879
Speaker 1: the way, I collect every I try to get PSA

2397
02:24:54,959 --> 02:24:58,400
Speaker 1: tens of every president that has appeared in a sports

2398
02:24:58,480 --> 02:25:03,240
Speaker 1: card set. And that's a lot of fun as well.

2399
02:25:04,080 --> 02:25:07,240
Speaker 1: So you know, that's my you know figure that you know,

2400
02:25:07,280 --> 02:25:10,039
Speaker 1: that's appropriate for me, the political junkie, to have that.

2401
02:25:10,200 --> 02:25:12,240
Speaker 1: So you know, there was, believe it or not, a

2402
02:25:12,280 --> 02:25:15,160
Speaker 1: lot of older sets in the early twentieth century that

2403
02:25:15,240 --> 02:25:19,920
Speaker 1: had some that didn't hold presidential presidential cards. In fact,

2404
02:25:20,000 --> 02:25:21,959
Speaker 1: one of my favorite recent sets that I wish top

2405
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:23,720
Speaker 1: Tops would bring back was the two thousand and nine

2406
02:25:23,760 --> 02:25:27,959
Speaker 1: American History set, which did things like have subsets of

2407
02:25:28,000 --> 02:25:30,800
Speaker 1: Medal of Honor folks. So it was like a history like,

2408
02:25:30,879 --> 02:25:32,959
Speaker 1: we're just great history on it. So I collected it,

2409
02:25:33,320 --> 02:25:35,640
Speaker 1: built the set with my kids as a way to

2410
02:25:35,680 --> 02:25:38,920
Speaker 1: teach American history. It was. It was. It was fabulous,

2411
02:25:39,240 --> 02:25:49,440
Speaker 1: and I wish Tops would bring you back, all right,

2412
02:25:50,280 --> 02:25:52,320
Speaker 1: since we got the sports cards, it's a perfect transition

2413
02:25:52,360 --> 02:25:59,400
Speaker 1: to get to college football and my experience at Kyle Field.

2414
02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:05,760
Speaker 1: I will start very I will start with this. It's

2415
02:26:05,840 --> 02:26:11,520
Speaker 1: my fourth Miami road game in a stadium that seats

2416
02:26:11,560 --> 02:26:13,400
Speaker 1: more than one hundred thousand people. I was at Penn

2417
02:26:13,400 --> 02:26:16,200
Speaker 1: State in two thousand and one for a Miami Penn

2418
02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:18,680
Speaker 1: State game. Miami won that game. I was in Tennessee

2419
02:26:19,240 --> 02:26:21,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, I think it was for a

2420
02:26:21,040 --> 02:26:24,480
Speaker 1: Miami Tennessee game. Miami one. I've been to the Rose Bowl.

2421
02:26:24,600 --> 02:26:27,720
Speaker 1: I believe they seed one hundred thousand so and that

2422
02:26:27,840 --> 02:26:29,960
Speaker 1: was for the lone Rose Bowl that Miami appeared in

2423
02:26:30,280 --> 02:26:33,960
Speaker 1: and they won. So I think I have that going

2424
02:26:34,040 --> 02:26:36,840
Speaker 1: for me, which is I've never seen Miami lose win

2425
02:26:37,160 --> 02:26:39,440
Speaker 1: in a hundred thousand seed stadium. They've lost a one

2426
02:26:39,520 --> 02:26:41,840
Speaker 1: hundred thousand seat staums, but not when I've been in attendance.

2427
02:26:42,840 --> 02:26:44,440
Speaker 1: They lost a game at Michigan once and I think

2428
02:26:44,440 --> 02:26:47,160
Speaker 1: they lost a game at Ohio State once, so both

2429
02:26:47,160 --> 02:26:50,480
Speaker 1: of which of course seed over one hundred thousand. And

2430
02:26:50,640 --> 02:26:53,960
Speaker 1: one thing you will learn is it wasn't bad getting

2431
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:56,959
Speaker 1: into a stadium that seats one hundred thousand. Boy, when

2432
02:26:56,959 --> 02:26:59,280
Speaker 1: everybody stays to the end, it is really hard to

2433
02:26:59,280 --> 02:27:03,039
Speaker 1: get out of a state that time town. That was

2434
02:27:03,120 --> 02:27:06,440
Speaker 1: quite the ordeal and all that text. A and M

2435
02:27:06,480 --> 02:27:09,440
Speaker 1: fans were great. You know, I have a lot of

2436
02:27:09,520 --> 02:27:11,760
Speaker 1: UT fans in my life who don't have many nice

2437
02:27:11,760 --> 02:27:14,400
Speaker 1: things to say about the Aggies, So I had I

2438
02:27:14,560 --> 02:27:18,920
Speaker 1: perhaps came in with super low expectations and a little leariness.

2439
02:27:19,080 --> 02:27:21,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I did. I thought everything was great, even

2440
02:27:21,720 --> 02:27:24,280
Speaker 1: in losing. I have this memory of this one A

2441
02:27:24,360 --> 02:27:26,840
Speaker 1: and M fan cowboy hat he looks at me and

2442
02:27:26,840 --> 02:27:28,720
Speaker 1: he just opens his arms. He says, can you give

2443
02:27:28,760 --> 02:27:31,760
Speaker 1: me a hug? I was like, okay. He had a

2444
02:27:31,800 --> 02:27:34,480
Speaker 1: few His family, I think was wondering what's he about

2445
02:27:34,520 --> 02:27:38,080
Speaker 1: to do? But it was It was actually a very

2446
02:27:38,600 --> 02:27:42,480
Speaker 1: nice interaction. All of it was very nice interactions. Look,

2447
02:27:42,560 --> 02:27:47,240
Speaker 1: let's talk about the game itself. If you weren't at

2448
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:49,560
Speaker 1: the game, you probably and you're only watching in TV,

2449
02:27:49,560 --> 02:27:52,360
Speaker 1: you thought, boy, these offenses are futrid? What's going on here?

2450
02:27:52,959 --> 02:27:57,199
Speaker 1: The wind was a serious factor. In fact, every time

2451
02:27:57,240 --> 02:28:01,480
Speaker 1: there was a time out, Carson Beck was throwing was

2452
02:28:01,920 --> 02:28:04,480
Speaker 1: throwing the football. So either one of two things. Either

2453
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:06,640
Speaker 1: he had something going on with his arm that he

2454
02:28:06,720 --> 02:28:08,760
Speaker 1: was trying to deal with, which I don't think it was,

2455
02:28:09,080 --> 02:28:12,440
Speaker 1: or he was trying to figure out how to throw

2456
02:28:12,640 --> 02:28:16,600
Speaker 1: better in this swirling wind. He was constantly trying to

2457
02:28:16,640 --> 02:28:19,200
Speaker 1: warm up, and I mean every time out he'd be

2458
02:28:19,240 --> 02:28:21,600
Speaker 1: out in the field trying to do this. I saw

2459
02:28:21,720 --> 02:28:25,160
Speaker 1: a similar situation with all of the Texas A and

2460
02:28:25,320 --> 02:28:27,880
Speaker 1: M side. They were doing their long snaps a lot

2461
02:28:27,920 --> 02:28:32,720
Speaker 1: more practicing sort of in between during timeouts, during work stoppages.

2462
02:28:32,760 --> 02:28:36,320
Speaker 1: This wasn't just stuff you saw pre or just on

2463
02:28:36,360 --> 02:28:38,440
Speaker 1: the sideline. They'd literally move out into the field when

2464
02:28:38,480 --> 02:28:40,160
Speaker 1: they had it. This would be during the commercial break.

2465
02:28:40,200 --> 02:28:44,039
Speaker 1: So the wind was really throwing everybody off, and I

2466
02:28:44,040 --> 02:28:46,840
Speaker 1: think it really threw Back off. I don't think he

2467
02:28:46,920 --> 02:28:49,640
Speaker 1: ever felt comfortable throwing the football at all. I think

2468
02:28:49,640 --> 02:28:54,600
Speaker 1: it showed, you know, is it an arm strength issue?

2469
02:28:54,800 --> 02:28:56,920
Speaker 1: Was it just the wind? Was that swirly that day?

2470
02:28:58,560 --> 02:29:01,800
Speaker 1: It was a real factor, and it absolutely contributed to

2471
02:29:01,840 --> 02:29:04,760
Speaker 1: the bizarre kicking game problems, which Miny really didn't have

2472
02:29:04,800 --> 02:29:06,160
Speaker 1: an issue with all your I know, TEXTA, A and

2473
02:29:06,240 --> 02:29:11,680
Speaker 1: M had their share, not a few other observations. Very frustrated,

2474
02:29:12,000 --> 02:29:16,160
Speaker 1: as always with the play calling. I will say this

2475
02:29:17,080 --> 02:29:20,520
Speaker 1: and look a win. I am grateful and satisfied that

2476
02:29:20,560 --> 02:29:23,080
Speaker 1: Miami god this win. But this is one of those

2477
02:29:23,120 --> 02:29:25,120
Speaker 1: games where and I'm sure Texas A and M fans

2478
02:29:25,160 --> 02:29:26,720
Speaker 1: look at that game and go, we had so many

2479
02:29:26,760 --> 02:29:28,920
Speaker 1: chances to win that game. That's true. And a Miami

2480
02:29:28,920 --> 02:29:30,320
Speaker 1: fan looks at that game and go, we had so

2481
02:29:30,320 --> 02:29:34,959
Speaker 1: many chances to have blown them out, which is also true.

2482
02:29:35,000 --> 02:29:38,240
Speaker 1: It was a game where nobody took advantage of the

2483
02:29:38,280 --> 02:29:42,680
Speaker 1: mistakes the other team was making or not nearly enough,

2484
02:29:42,800 --> 02:29:45,840
Speaker 1: and then there was a few sort of questionable decision

2485
02:29:45,840 --> 02:29:48,480
Speaker 1: making the fake punt to me was a questionable decision

2486
02:29:49,480 --> 02:29:54,160
Speaker 1: by Elko at the time, especially in that way. Your

2487
02:29:54,440 --> 02:29:56,240
Speaker 1: own quarterbacks having a hard time throwing the ball in

2488
02:29:56,280 --> 02:29:58,200
Speaker 1: the wind, so now you expect your punter to be

2489
02:29:58,200 --> 02:30:00,200
Speaker 1: able to throw in the in the crazy swirling win

2490
02:30:02,520 --> 02:30:06,640
Speaker 1: seemed like a you you know. And look to Miami's

2491
02:30:06,680 --> 02:30:10,280
Speaker 1: credit and kudos to the special teams coaching. They were

2492
02:30:10,440 --> 02:30:14,200
Speaker 1: they were ready, and everybody stayed at home, and they

2493
02:30:14,200 --> 02:30:16,080
Speaker 1: were able to make sure that that didn't pay off.

2494
02:30:16,080 --> 02:30:18,119
Speaker 1: But I think that was a questionable decision. It sort

2495
02:30:18,160 --> 02:30:21,480
Speaker 1: of gave Miami a break at a time when when

2496
02:30:22,000 --> 02:30:24,600
Speaker 1: they could use one. I didn't want Tom having to

2497
02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:30,480
Speaker 1: start start start their drive inside their twenty again. But

2498
02:30:30,680 --> 02:30:33,120
Speaker 1: my issue with the play calling is saying it's my

2499
02:30:33,160 --> 02:30:36,480
Speaker 1: observation about all year. I feel like the offensive coordinator

2500
02:30:38,320 --> 02:30:42,959
Speaker 1: is always trying to figure out like which plays work

2501
02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:46,560
Speaker 1: with his offense rather than game planning towards the team

2502
02:30:46,680 --> 02:30:50,400
Speaker 1: he's playing. And it isn't till sometime in the second

2503
02:30:50,440 --> 02:30:54,800
Speaker 1: half that he finally pivots the play calling to what's

2504
02:30:54,920 --> 02:30:58,040
Speaker 1: actually happening on the field and with the opponent were

2505
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:02,960
Speaker 1: actually facing the fact that Mark Fletcher, who had a

2506
02:31:02,959 --> 02:31:07,720
Speaker 1: tremendous game the running back, the best most yard each

2507
02:31:07,959 --> 02:31:10,080
Speaker 1: he had ever had as a as a Miami running back,

2508
02:31:10,800 --> 02:31:13,360
Speaker 1: didn't touch the ball once. When Miami had a first

2509
02:31:13,400 --> 02:31:15,240
Speaker 1: and goal at the ten early on in the game.

2510
02:31:15,760 --> 02:31:17,879
Speaker 1: It was one of those drives with the ended up

2511
02:31:17,879 --> 02:31:22,440
Speaker 1: with a missfield goal every time until the fourth quarter,

2512
02:31:22,560 --> 02:31:26,959
Speaker 1: every time Mark Fletcher got a run that succeeded say

2513
02:31:27,000 --> 02:31:30,880
Speaker 1: six yards or more, it seemed like they waited three

2514
02:31:30,959 --> 02:31:33,439
Speaker 1: or four plays before they ever went back to it.

2515
02:31:33,680 --> 02:31:36,240
Speaker 1: Finally in the fourth core they realized, well, what's working

2516
02:31:36,680 --> 02:31:40,440
Speaker 1: this A and M defense? As their pass rush was

2517
02:31:40,480 --> 02:31:43,600
Speaker 1: getting through and was making back uncomfortable. And I think

2518
02:31:43,640 --> 02:31:46,000
Speaker 1: it was the wind that made the pass rush more

2519
02:31:46,040 --> 02:31:49,400
Speaker 1: effective than anything else. But we could run on these

2520
02:31:49,400 --> 02:31:53,520
Speaker 1: guys and yet you know, they were just they kept

2521
02:31:53,720 --> 02:31:55,959
Speaker 1: so it felt as if it was almost like he was, Hey,

2522
02:31:56,040 --> 02:31:58,360
Speaker 1: let me see if this play how this play? You know,

2523
02:31:58,400 --> 02:32:02,120
Speaker 1: And there's sort of these their trick plays, but they're

2524
02:32:02,200 --> 02:32:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of high schoolish, one dimensional trick plays. Oh, let's

2525
02:32:06,000 --> 02:32:09,520
Speaker 1: line up Tony in the wildcat, let's do this, let's

2526
02:32:09,640 --> 02:32:14,879
Speaker 1: you know it. They're weirdly predictable, and it was almost

2527
02:32:14,879 --> 02:32:16,200
Speaker 1: as all right, I'm going to try to get the

2528
02:32:16,200 --> 02:32:20,920
Speaker 1: ball into Tony's hands without actually thinking about the defense

2529
02:32:20,959 --> 02:32:24,640
Speaker 1: that they're facing. By the fourth quarter, they realized, well,

2530
02:32:24,680 --> 02:32:26,720
Speaker 1: when they really have to get some yards, they should

2531
02:32:26,720 --> 02:32:29,000
Speaker 1: just run the ball, and suddenly Fletcher and they pounded

2532
02:32:29,000 --> 02:32:33,080
Speaker 1: the rock. For us older Miami fans, it reminded me

2533
02:32:33,160 --> 02:32:36,920
Speaker 1: of one of the worst play calling decisions ever, which

2534
02:32:37,000 --> 02:32:40,360
Speaker 1: was infamous, an infamous game back in the eighties between

2535
02:32:40,400 --> 02:32:42,800
Speaker 1: Miami and Penn State, one of the best Miami teams

2536
02:32:42,800 --> 02:32:45,039
Speaker 1: of all time, and they didn't win a national title.

2537
02:32:45,440 --> 02:32:49,360
Speaker 1: They lost. They lost to Joe Paterno's Penn State squad

2538
02:32:49,640 --> 02:32:52,560
Speaker 1: in the in the eighty six season eighty seven Fiesta Bowl,

2539
02:32:53,200 --> 02:32:56,960
Speaker 1: where they had first They were inside the ten, basically

2540
02:32:57,000 --> 02:32:59,480
Speaker 1: going in for the winning touchdown, and they decided to

2541
02:32:59,480 --> 02:33:01,720
Speaker 1: throw the ball, not hand the ball to Lonzo Heismith,

2542
02:33:02,200 --> 02:33:04,280
Speaker 1: who was just not going to be denied that day.

2543
02:33:04,760 --> 02:33:06,560
Speaker 1: And that's how I felt about Mark Fletcher. You're like,

2544
02:33:06,600 --> 02:33:08,800
Speaker 1: this dude has a nose for the end zone. He

2545
02:33:08,840 --> 02:33:11,760
Speaker 1: always runs north south. He is not going to get denied.

2546
02:33:11,800 --> 02:33:15,200
Speaker 1: Some guys just have it. You feed the ball. You

2547
02:33:15,280 --> 02:33:18,840
Speaker 1: give him the ball and you go and you wear

2548
02:33:18,920 --> 02:33:22,120
Speaker 1: that out, then you worry about other things. So I

2549
02:33:22,480 --> 02:33:27,520
Speaker 1: just I don't love the way this goes about. He doesn't.

2550
02:33:27,560 --> 02:33:29,800
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's a game plan. I feel

2551
02:33:29,800 --> 02:33:34,000
Speaker 1: like it's a set of offensive schemes that he's doing

2552
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:37,440
Speaker 1: on a whiteboard that he's not thinking about the opponent

2553
02:33:37,520 --> 02:33:40,640
Speaker 1: that they're facing. I gotta think that's going to change

2554
02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:45,400
Speaker 1: for Ohio State. But we'll say. The other thing I

2555
02:33:45,440 --> 02:33:48,840
Speaker 1: take away is I think Miami's defense I think it's absurd.

2556
02:33:48,879 --> 02:33:53,320
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes perception in college football, perception is always

2557
02:33:53,320 --> 02:33:56,240
Speaker 1: way ahead of the reality. And I think right now,

2558
02:33:56,680 --> 02:33:58,680
Speaker 1: I see it in the early lines of Miami oha State.

2559
02:33:59,560 --> 02:34:01,720
Speaker 1: Or it's a nine and a half point favorite. Please,

2560
02:34:02,320 --> 02:34:06,720
Speaker 1: that's great. Look, I know I'm a homer, but that's insane. Okay,

2561
02:34:06,920 --> 02:34:09,280
Speaker 1: no Miami team I'm trying to think. I don't think

2562
02:34:09,280 --> 02:34:12,039
Speaker 1: Miami's lost by more than nine points in over two years.

2563
02:34:14,200 --> 02:34:19,000
Speaker 1: It's just I will especially the way Mario Christopal coaches.

2564
02:34:19,000 --> 02:34:22,240
Speaker 1: He's a very risk averse coach. It drives me crazy,

2565
02:34:22,360 --> 02:34:24,800
Speaker 1: but it keeps him in every game. This guy is

2566
02:34:24,840 --> 02:34:28,240
Speaker 1: not going to not be in this game. He is

2567
02:34:28,440 --> 02:34:32,000
Speaker 1: not going to let the team sort of be put

2568
02:34:32,040 --> 02:34:35,600
Speaker 1: in a position like that. And Ohio State, isn't it I,

2569
02:34:36,200 --> 02:34:38,920
Speaker 1: you know, against the Miami defense, I just don't see it.

2570
02:34:38,959 --> 02:34:43,440
Speaker 1: And this is where it's a reminder that the reason

2571
02:34:43,440 --> 02:34:47,240
Speaker 1: that the expression defense wins championships is that, you know,

2572
02:34:47,280 --> 02:34:50,440
Speaker 1: Miami had a very uneven orderline, bad offensive day, and

2573
02:34:50,440 --> 02:34:52,920
Speaker 1: we're able to win because the defense was able to

2574
02:34:53,000 --> 02:34:55,720
Speaker 1: prevent the other offense from doing anything. If you have

2575
02:34:55,760 --> 02:34:58,200
Speaker 1: a bad day on offense and your defense's mediocre, you've

2576
02:34:58,200 --> 02:35:00,440
Speaker 1: had the situation that Miami had to do with last year,

2577
02:35:00,440 --> 02:35:02,959
Speaker 1: when we had this great offense that would have a

2578
02:35:03,000 --> 02:35:06,640
Speaker 1: couple of clunker quarters that suddenly the defense would allow

2579
02:35:06,680 --> 02:35:08,440
Speaker 1: up twenty one points to the other side, and then

2580
02:35:08,480 --> 02:35:10,600
Speaker 1: suddenly you were in a hole. You dug yourself a

2581
02:35:10,640 --> 02:35:14,760
Speaker 1: hole or something. So I know we won, and we're

2582
02:35:14,760 --> 02:35:17,200
Speaker 1: not supposed to pick at nits, but it's a big

2583
02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:20,360
Speaker 1: one to pick because Miami's not going to win another

2584
02:35:20,400 --> 02:35:23,160
Speaker 1: game if they don't perform slightly better on offense. They

2585
02:35:23,160 --> 02:35:25,879
Speaker 1: have all the talent in the world. I just think

2586
02:35:25,920 --> 02:35:29,000
Speaker 1: this offensive scheme just doesn't take advantage of the talent

2587
02:35:29,080 --> 02:35:33,640
Speaker 1: that they have. It's like wide receiver, screen, wide receiver screen,

2588
02:35:34,040 --> 02:35:37,680
Speaker 1: Malachai Tony trick play, throw the ball deep. They don't

2589
02:35:37,760 --> 02:35:39,800
Speaker 1: use the middle of the field enough. I'd like to

2590
02:35:39,800 --> 02:35:42,920
Speaker 1: see more of it. And I'll say something I've said

2591
02:35:43,000 --> 02:35:48,040
Speaker 1: in earlier roundups about this Miami team. The coaches seem

2592
02:35:48,120 --> 02:35:52,520
Speaker 1: to always be worried about putting too much in Carson

2593
02:35:52,560 --> 02:35:58,119
Speaker 1: Beck's hands. What are you waiting for? It's do or die.

2594
02:35:58,800 --> 02:36:01,680
Speaker 1: It's ride or die with him. Unlet's ride or die.

2595
02:36:02,400 --> 02:36:04,920
Speaker 1: Open it up a little bit. You have the talent,

2596
02:36:05,440 --> 02:36:07,320
Speaker 1: open up the middle of the field a little bit.

2597
02:36:10,480 --> 02:36:14,280
Speaker 1: It's it's if you're you're not going to win more

2598
02:36:14,320 --> 02:36:18,680
Speaker 1: big games if you don't trust your quarterback. And I

2599
02:36:18,800 --> 02:36:23,080
Speaker 1: do get the sense that this coaching staff doesn't quite

2600
02:36:23,480 --> 02:36:29,440
Speaker 1: trust him completely. And and you can say he's not

2601
02:36:29,520 --> 02:36:33,640
Speaker 1: earned the trust. Well, at this point it doesn't matter.

2602
02:36:33,720 --> 02:36:36,280
Speaker 1: But look, I had said before my expectation was we

2603
02:36:36,280 --> 02:36:38,480
Speaker 1: were going to win this game. I look at it now,

2604
02:36:38,480 --> 02:36:40,520
Speaker 1: I think we should have won by more. I don't

2605
02:36:40,560 --> 02:36:43,560
Speaker 1: think this means that techs A and M you know,

2606
02:36:43,640 --> 02:36:45,640
Speaker 1: didn't belong there. And by the way, I love these

2607
02:36:45,680 --> 02:36:47,760
Speaker 1: notre dame fans that look at the Miami texsaing game.

2608
02:36:47,800 --> 02:36:49,400
Speaker 1: They were better than both teams. You lost to both

2609
02:36:49,400 --> 02:36:52,560
Speaker 1: teams like that, they, you know, be mad about the

2610
02:36:52,600 --> 02:36:56,640
Speaker 1: group of five situations. And I do think it is

2611
02:36:56,720 --> 02:36:59,200
Speaker 1: amazing how often the college the leaders of college football

2612
02:36:59,280 --> 02:37:04,760
Speaker 1: don't think about things as don't sort of have the

2613
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:10,320
Speaker 1: ability to see the potential scenarios that could get created. Look,

2614
02:37:10,360 --> 02:37:12,480
Speaker 1: the reason group of five has access is they don't

2615
02:37:12,520 --> 02:37:16,160
Speaker 1: want an antitrust lawsuit. They don't want to deal with that,

2616
02:37:16,640 --> 02:37:20,000
Speaker 1: so they've got to at least give the illusion that

2617
02:37:20,080 --> 02:37:25,120
Speaker 1: all of Division I college football has access to the playoff.

2618
02:37:27,000 --> 02:37:30,440
Speaker 1: But you know, they forgot the whole top fifteen part, right.

2619
02:37:30,520 --> 02:37:33,120
Speaker 1: You know, if you have a twelve team playoff, I

2620
02:37:33,120 --> 02:37:36,160
Speaker 1: think it's reasonable to say, as a conference champion, you

2621
02:37:36,160 --> 02:37:38,480
Speaker 1: only get to qualify if you're ranked in the top fifteen.

2622
02:37:39,560 --> 02:37:42,640
Speaker 1: If it's a sixteen playoff, sixteen team playoff, you can

2623
02:37:42,680 --> 02:37:44,840
Speaker 1: put that to the top twenty. But that way at

2624
02:37:44,920 --> 02:37:49,440
Speaker 1: least guarantee because neither Tulane or James Madison were in

2625
02:37:49,480 --> 02:37:54,959
Speaker 1: the top fifteen. Boise State last year was. But the

2626
02:37:55,000 --> 02:37:58,320
Speaker 1: other problem for the poor group of five is anil

2627
02:37:58,360 --> 02:38:03,080
Speaker 1: in the portal three or four years ago. You could have.

2628
02:38:03,160 --> 02:38:05,119
Speaker 1: You always had a handful of group of five teams

2629
02:38:05,120 --> 02:38:08,560
Speaker 1: that basically just found more diamonds in the rough. Uh,

2630
02:38:08,600 --> 02:38:12,120
Speaker 1: And we're able to build successful programs around those diamonds

2631
02:38:12,120 --> 02:38:13,720
Speaker 1: in the rough. And in fact, some of these programs

2632
02:38:13,720 --> 02:38:17,400
Speaker 1: were so good they became Power conference power players Utah, right,

2633
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:20,200
Speaker 1: formerly a group of five ends up in the Power

2634
02:38:20,240 --> 02:38:23,040
Speaker 1: for all right, and they're they're a They're a mainstream

2635
02:38:23,080 --> 02:38:25,800
Speaker 1: power for conference right right, They're not like fledgling right.

2636
02:38:26,720 --> 02:38:30,879
Speaker 1: SMU is another one that was able to move up.

2637
02:38:32,320 --> 02:38:38,240
Speaker 1: But I think now with so many big time programs

2638
02:38:38,280 --> 02:38:42,000
Speaker 1: with their own scouting departments, these group these group of

2639
02:38:42,040 --> 02:38:45,280
Speaker 1: five programs just can't keep these players. The minute they

2640
02:38:45,320 --> 02:38:48,040
Speaker 1: find a diamond in the rough, they're gone. Ditto on

2641
02:38:48,080 --> 02:38:51,600
Speaker 1: the fcs. So the gap between the haves and the

2642
02:38:51,640 --> 02:38:54,200
Speaker 1: have nots is only going to grow in college football.

2643
02:38:54,680 --> 02:38:57,320
Speaker 1: So you had this, I mean both group of both

2644
02:38:57,440 --> 02:39:00,320
Speaker 1: group of five programs were just it was so clear

2645
02:39:00,360 --> 02:39:03,000
Speaker 1: they didn't belong on the same field due to size

2646
02:39:03,000 --> 02:39:05,920
Speaker 1: and speed. They may have the as good of coaches,

2647
02:39:06,400 --> 02:39:09,959
Speaker 1: they may have as good schemes, but they just simply

2648
02:39:09,959 --> 02:39:12,360
Speaker 1: didn't have enough size and they didn't have enough speed

2649
02:39:12,840 --> 02:39:14,959
Speaker 1: and they're never going to have enough size and they're

2650
02:39:15,000 --> 02:39:18,200
Speaker 1: never going to have enough speed under these under this

2651
02:39:18,400 --> 02:39:21,360
Speaker 1: current scenario. But it's clear they got to put in

2652
02:39:21,480 --> 02:39:24,520
Speaker 1: some sort of you know, I think I think we

2653
02:39:24,680 --> 02:39:28,360
Speaker 1: all believe, you know, I look at sports in the

2654
02:39:28,400 --> 02:39:29,879
Speaker 1: same way look at you know, I think there should

2655
02:39:29,879 --> 02:39:31,640
Speaker 1: be a meritocra. I think you should have. You know,

2656
02:39:32,080 --> 02:39:37,040
Speaker 1: if somebody, you know, if a Northern Illinois alum is

2657
02:39:37,240 --> 02:39:44,000
Speaker 1: suddenly the next big tech financier makes billions and billions

2658
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:46,320
Speaker 1: of dollars and wants to turn Northern Illinois into a power,

2659
02:39:48,560 --> 02:39:51,480
Speaker 1: there should be a syst you know that pay. That's

2660
02:39:51,520 --> 02:39:54,280
Speaker 1: the way the market works at the moment. And if

2661
02:39:54,320 --> 02:39:57,280
Speaker 1: they acquire enough talent and they're ranked in the top

2662
02:39:57,320 --> 02:40:01,800
Speaker 1: fifteen and they you know what, power to them. So,

2663
02:40:02,440 --> 02:40:04,840
Speaker 1: but you can come up with some sort of safety

2664
02:40:04,840 --> 02:40:06,600
Speaker 1: net in your rules in the playoffs so that you

2665
02:40:06,600 --> 02:40:10,320
Speaker 1: don't get embarrassing mismatches. Because here you had of the

2666
02:40:10,360 --> 02:40:13,720
Speaker 1: four playoff games, two tremendous playoff games between one Alabama

2667
02:40:13,720 --> 02:40:16,560
Speaker 1: and Oklahoma and one that was a defensive battle between

2668
02:40:16,600 --> 02:40:19,840
Speaker 1: Texas A and m and Miami, and two just real duds.

2669
02:40:21,120 --> 02:40:24,600
Speaker 1: Wouldn't have been better to see BYU and note BYU

2670
02:40:24,640 --> 02:40:33,240
Speaker 1: playing Ole Miss and say Oregon playing Notre Dame. Right, Look,

2671
02:40:33,280 --> 02:40:37,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna have four tremendous games coming up. Texas Tech

2672
02:40:37,280 --> 02:40:41,240
Speaker 1: Oregon two programs that want to be haves, but they

2673
02:40:41,240 --> 02:40:43,680
Speaker 1: don't have the pedigree yet, they have the money, but

2674
02:40:43,720 --> 02:40:46,760
Speaker 1: they don't have the pedigree. I think Miami Ohio State

2675
02:40:47,240 --> 02:40:49,760
Speaker 1: that's a battle of I think combined they have over

2676
02:40:50,040 --> 02:40:55,840
Speaker 1: a dozen national titles between them. You have Indiana Alabama

2677
02:40:56,000 --> 02:41:00,200
Speaker 1: New Money, Old Money, Right, that's a fun one. And

2678
02:41:00,240 --> 02:41:02,840
Speaker 1: then we have Georgia Ole Miss, where we're going to

2679
02:41:03,360 --> 02:41:07,240
Speaker 1: probably you know, I'm I'm pretty pessimistic on I think

2680
02:41:07,400 --> 02:41:10,080
Speaker 1: I think Old Miss rallies around hating Lane Kiffin once,

2681
02:41:10,560 --> 02:41:13,840
Speaker 1: can you do it a second time? I think that's

2682
02:41:14,000 --> 02:41:17,560
Speaker 1: especially in a game that takes place one day before

2683
02:41:17,600 --> 02:41:20,320
Speaker 1: the portal officially opens, and we know there is going

2684
02:41:20,400 --> 02:41:24,200
Speaker 1: to be an explosion of Old Miss players that will

2685
02:41:24,240 --> 02:41:27,840
Speaker 1: be raising their hands for contracts from Lane Kiffin's LSU program.

2686
02:41:28,879 --> 02:41:36,360
Speaker 1: So we shall see. Look, I'm excited. I'm like I

2687
02:41:36,560 --> 02:41:40,480
Speaker 1: told you before, I love Miami's path because there's there's

2688
02:41:40,520 --> 02:41:44,280
Speaker 1: all these sort of revenge moments. It's now been listen

2689
02:41:44,760 --> 02:41:47,800
Speaker 1: It's not lost on me that Miami has won eleven games,

2690
02:41:47,879 --> 02:41:50,840
Speaker 1: and this is the that the last time they did that,

2691
02:41:51,400 --> 02:41:54,560
Speaker 1: I had no kids. My daughter is twenty one years old,

2692
02:41:55,080 --> 02:41:59,120
Speaker 1: is a senior in college, and it's the first time

2693
02:41:59,160 --> 02:42:02,560
Speaker 1: in her lifetime then Miami's won eleven or more games.

2694
02:42:02,640 --> 02:42:07,119
Speaker 1: So it's a reminder write history. It all depends your perspective.

2695
02:42:07,160 --> 02:42:11,279
Speaker 1: For me, Miami's heyday is recent history. For my daughter,

2696
02:42:11,959 --> 02:42:16,560
Speaker 1: it's ancient history. I think that probably serves as a

2697
02:42:16,560 --> 02:42:18,760
Speaker 1: good way to say goodbye to my college football segment

2698
02:42:18,879 --> 02:42:22,039
Speaker 1: because in some ways it dovetails with everything we've been

2699
02:42:22,080 --> 02:42:25,400
Speaker 1: talking about today. If there is a through line of

2700
02:42:25,440 --> 02:42:31,840
Speaker 1: any of it, all right, with that, I'll sign off.

2701
02:42:31,920 --> 02:42:34,920
Speaker 1: I will have, like I said, one more episode later

2702
02:42:35,000 --> 02:42:36,720
Speaker 1: this week. Plus we're going to drop, like I said,

2703
02:42:36,720 --> 02:42:40,080
Speaker 1: a best of it's an interview that I did a

2704
02:42:40,120 --> 02:42:43,000
Speaker 1: few months ago that will be super relevant for a

2705
02:42:43,040 --> 02:42:46,119
Speaker 1: campaign that's taking place in the spring of twenty six.

2706
02:42:46,200 --> 02:42:48,360
Speaker 1: So with that, I'll sign off and I'll see in

2707
02:42:48,400 --> 02:42:49,039
Speaker 1: forty eight hours.