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Maryland one eight 25 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: seven seven eight Hope, New York or text Hope, New 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: York four six seven three six nine New York one 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: eight hundred five two two forty seven hundred Wyoming, or 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: visit www dot one eight hundred gambler dot net, West Virginia, Hi. 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: Everybody special guest today j Billis will chop it up 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: for about thirty minutes. On the tournament. I think it's 31 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: a tournament that's been led by defense. I don't think 32 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: there's a ton of high offensive skill. The scores have 33 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: been lower, but that's okay. Marquette Michigan State, Tennessee Duke. 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: Great defense by the Valls, great defense by Sparty ended 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: up winning the basketball game, so I've really enjoyed it. 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: I spent the entire weekend mostly watching basketball games. Northwestern UCLA. Again, 37 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: defense reigned supreme. When you don't have a lot of great, 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: elite offensive players, coaching in defense ruled the day. And 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: that's what we've seen so far in the tournament. Apparently 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: I didn't spend too much time on the phone. I 41 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: created quite a kerfuffle with my Michael Jordan opinion one 42 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: day last week and where I said, you know, there's 43 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: a lot of mythology about Michael Jordan because a lot 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: of people thirty five and under who love him never 45 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: watched him actually play. It's just YouTube highlights something to 46 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: remember about Michael Jordan, and it's very unique in the 47 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: history of basketball. No other player has this. And Michael 48 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: is certainly as good as anybody I've ever seen, relentless, great, 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: in crisis, laser focused, super competitive. Loved watching him play. 50 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm still a huge fan of Michael Jordan. But you 51 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: can criticize Magic Johnson who ended up in thirty percent 52 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: More finals, and you can certainly criticize Lebron James, who 53 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: has smashed every Michael Jordan record, Which can't criticize Michael. Why, well, 54 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 1: think about it in these terms. Think about how powerful 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: just ads are on TV or radio, My career has 56 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: been a series of reading ads or ads elevating all 57 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: my platforms. They can sell us soda, they can sell 58 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: us cars, they can sell us jewelry just by a 59 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: thirty second ad. Now imagine how powerful an ad campaign 60 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: devoted entirely to you can be. The Air Jordan campaign 61 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: is the greatest marketing campaign in the history of our 62 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: domestic sports ever any athlete. Nothing's close. Michael made two 63 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million last year, still on his shoes. 64 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: Just understand and how powerful commercials are. And now an 65 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: Air Jordan campaign for twenty years, devoted to one human. 66 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: It's created a Teflon shield around Michael, so that when 67 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: he punches Steve Kerr, well you know, he's just very competitive. 68 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: If Draymond Greene punches Jordan, Pool a cocky, trash talking 69 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: reserve throw him out of the league. Draymond doesn't have 70 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: the protective shield, the power of Nike. Michael jordan best 71 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: friend Charles Barkley fifteen years Barkley goes on the air, 72 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: does his job is critical? He ghosts him, no longer 73 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: talks to him. Who does that protective shield? Baseball Wizard's 74 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: mess failing as an owner, struggling with teammates early pre 75 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: Phil Jackson. It's all protected. Nobody's saying. You can criticize Lebron, 76 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: you can criticize Kareem you can criticize anybody, Magic, Kobe Duncan. 77 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: You can't criticize Michael Jordan. That's why I call it mythology. 78 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: It's as if he never missed a shop. He had 79 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: lots of bad finals games, a couple against the Sonics, 80 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: a couple against the Utah Jazz. He's human. Michael's always 81 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: been great at elevating Michael. I said this last week 82 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: and I'll say it again. The two fills Phil Jackson, Michael, 83 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: you're a selfish player. Do you want to win championships 84 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: or be a scoring champ? Trust your teammates more. Phil 85 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: Jackson the smartest basketball coach at my entire lifetime, perhaps ever, 86 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: probably ever. Michael understood that. That was the first Phil. 87 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: The other Phil was Phil Knight, the number one visionary 88 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: in American sports marketing in the history of my life. 89 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: The two fills. Now give Jordan credit. He was glamorous, 90 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: he was great, he was focused, He was capable of 91 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: being coached if he respected you. So he deserves a 92 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: lot of credit for that. I mean, people all over 93 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: this country try to help people and they just won't listen. 94 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: Michael listened and became probably the greatest basketball player ever 95 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: when he started trusting teammates and winning championships. But just 96 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: think of the power of the Air Jordan marketing brand. 97 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: It has created a shield around Michael that any criticism. 98 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: But Colin, he won at North Carolina. A lot of 99 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: people have won championships at Carolina and Kansas and Yukon 100 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: and Duke. College basketball has always been lobsided. Six programs 101 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: have most of the talent. Well, he won in the Olympics. Yes, 102 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: that team was pretty loaded. He had helped beating Tunisia. 103 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: Nobody's discounting how great of a college player, how great 104 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: of an Olympian, How great of a player, how great 105 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: of a marketer. But what I'm saying is there's a 106 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: lot of mythology as if he wasn't difficult early pre Pippin, 107 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: He's won exactly one playoff series pre Pippin. Is that 108 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: he didn't need coaching, or that baseball wasn't a failure. 109 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: May I appreciate the effort, or that the Wizards wasn't 110 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: a disaster even as an owner. It was classic Michael. 111 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: He made a fortune owning the Hornets, but he could 112 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: control the narrative as a player. He couldn't as an owner. 113 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: People take things that happened to Michael real things like 114 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: he punched a teammate. That's a cheap shot. Well, Draymond 115 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: punched the teammate. Is that a cheap shot. All of 116 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: the issues are oas well. It was just very competitive. 117 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: Draymond's not competitive, but Colin Draymond works at the volume. 118 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: The point being is think of the power of the 119 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: Air Jordan marketing campaign, probably the most brilliant campaign ever. 120 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: And for the record, there's a reason it works. Michael's 121 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: great looking. Michael's got glamour. Michael the dress, the earring, 122 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: the smile, the game, the penash. Michael had it all right. 123 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: He's an easy guy to market. But take a deep breath. 124 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: You can criticize every basketball player ever except Michael. He 125 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: was human two. He had floss two. With the NFL 126 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: season over all, eyes in the sporting world turned everything 127 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: from the NBA to college hoops to the NHL. Plenty 128 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: of games to watch, are even better, plenty of games 129 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: to get out of the house and actually go to 130 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: That's why the best way to get your hands on 131 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,239 Speaker 1: tickets when you want to go to one of these games, 132 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: check out game Time, fastest growing ticket app in the US. 133 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: Game Time offer amazing last minute deals on tickets to 134 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: your best favorite NBA hockey, NCAA teams. Top of that, 135 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: they sell last minute concert and comedy show tickets too. 136 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: Download the game Time app, download it. Redeem code is 137 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: Colin twenty bucks off your first purchase terms apply again. 138 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: Download the app and of the code Collins col I 139 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: n twenty bucks off. Download game Time today last minute ticket. 140 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: It's lowest price guaranteed. Well, we wish we had him 141 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: on more often. He's a busy guy. I'm not sure 142 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: he's got a law degree. I'm not sure if he's 143 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: practicing law. But it's college basketball, it's law, It's I'm 144 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: sure a lot of public speaking he is. Jay billis 145 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: probably the most area day college basketball analyst of my lifetime. 146 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: And my only complaint about Jay billis is I don't 147 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: see enough of Jay billis. So he comes on our 148 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: podcast and we feel lucky today. First of all, how 149 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: are you? How are things? Do you still practice? I'm 150 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: still with my law firm. I've been with the same 151 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: law firm for coming up on thirty years now. But 152 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: I don't really practice anymore. I'm still license to practice, 153 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: and I do my continuing legal education every year to 154 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: keep my license up. But if you need a name 155 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: change or a divorce or a ticket taken care of, 156 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: I can handle that. Other than that, I don't. I 157 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: don't practice much. Okay, I got about twelve parking tickets. 158 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: I'll get back down that. Jay. I think college basketball, 159 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: if you take our domestic sports college and pro, is 160 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: the top for sport to coach. I think it's really 161 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: really difficult when you ask coaches, you know, in college football. 162 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: Nick Saban gets a kid for three or four years. 163 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: John Calipari gets him for you know, like a semester. 164 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: I think it's really hard. That's why Jay Wright, Roy Williams, 165 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: Mike Shashevsky. I could see guys saying this is this 166 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: is insane. Then you had the transfer portal. It's just 167 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: this really difficult Jumbalaya, I think to coach, am I 168 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: wrong on that? Or do you sense we're asking a 169 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: lot now of college basketball coaches and it's not realistic 170 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: to think we're going to see some burnout with these 171 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: top coaches. Maybe, I mean, I agree with you maybe 172 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: on Jay Wright, that the job has changed, and he 173 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: is at the tail end. He could probably go another 174 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, five or six years at great health and youth. 175 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I think Roy Williams and Coach K quit 176 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: because they were older. If they were in their forties 177 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: or fifties, I think they'd adjust to this in no 178 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: time and they wouldn't have a problem with that. You know, 179 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: these guys make a ton of money now, so they 180 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: can quit when they feel like it. If But you know, 181 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: when I was younger, Colin, I don't know exactly how 182 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: old you are, but I grew up in Los Angeles, 183 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: and when John Wooden retired, I was probably in sixth 184 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: grade and he was sixty five years old, and I 185 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: thought he was the oldest man that had ever lived. 186 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: And now these guys, you know, Jim Bams like seventy eight, 187 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: and Coach K's seventy six, and Roy Williams is in 188 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: his early seventies, and you know, you got Jim Larnagas 189 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: in his mid seventies and Leonard Hamilton. All these guys 190 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: are coaching way later. Than ever, and you've got a 191 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: lot of old school guys and that's okay. But one 192 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: thing that's easier about college now is you can you 193 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: can get a good team overnight. You know, you can 194 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: lose a good team overnight too with the transfer portal. 195 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: But you know, the NCAA was the one to put 196 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: that rule in, and they put it in because they 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: were fighting over money and the transfer restriction was making 198 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: him look really bad. It was the equivalent of a 199 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: non compete provision and an employment contract, and they want 200 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: to say, well, they're not employees. And then they were 201 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: restricting them on where they'd go to school and make 202 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: them sit out like a non compete. It is just 203 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: kind of crazy. So I went back this morning knowing 204 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: you were on, and I went back and looked at 205 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: some of your teams, and I went back and looked 206 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: at I covered two duke final fours of the Denver 207 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: game where they lost to the Rebels and then the 208 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: following year when they upset them. Grant Hill was the freshman. 209 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: But one of the things I looked at was scores. 210 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: And if you're twenty years old on a college campus, 211 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: you're saying, right now, look at this defense and my 212 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: takeaway is, well, the defense was good back in eighty 213 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: eight ninety. The differences you had juniors and seniors who 214 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: were going to play in the NBA on rosters is 215 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: that it does feel like this has been a two 216 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: or three year trend where it's becoming more of a 217 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: defensive tournament. By the way I've watched every game, I've 218 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,599 Speaker 1: loved it. I don't think it's quite as gifted offensive 219 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: leak is the great offensive players often pivot to professional basketball. 220 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: Is that it feels like to me, Jy, this has 221 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: been a defensive tournament. Like I watched Tennessee Duke and 222 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: I thought Tennessee's defense is just closing down on Duke. 223 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: I saw Michigan State today. They shot twelve vercent on 224 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: threes and they won, so that it might take away 225 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: in the tournament. It feels a good defensive tournament. Am 226 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: I wrong? No, you're right, But but the reason in 227 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: my view that it feels different, like I think the 228 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: players now are more skilled than they were thirty years ago. 229 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: I don't even think it's close now. Do we have 230 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: the four year superstars that we had back then? No, 231 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: because the true superstars leave early. But these guys are 232 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: way more skilled than back in the day. They can 233 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: shoot it better, they can do everything. The game is 234 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: way more physical now. I mean, it's ridiculous on cuts. 235 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: That Tennessee Duke game that you're referencing, that was not 236 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: a basketball game. That was a hockey game, and it 237 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: was officiated like a hockey game. Um, there were there 238 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: were fouls that were flagrant, fouls that were not called flagrant, 239 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: and I can't understand why. I've talked to several officials 240 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: about it, and all of them seem to agree that 241 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: that that that should not have happened that way. But 242 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: we're seeing that more and more that the game has 243 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: become more physical. And when I say physical, I'm not 244 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: talking about physical on blockouts. Like when when I was 245 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: playing back in the eighties. You know that people thought 246 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: about the Big East. Oh, the Big East so physical, 247 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: and it was less physical than this Now. The difference 248 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: is they didn't have flagrant fouls back then, so when 249 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: you fouled somebody, you put them in the wood and 250 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: then a fight started. Now if you do that, you 251 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: get tossed out of the game. And now a foul 252 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: that would have been a normal subway push back in 253 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: the eighties is called a flagrant more often. Um, so 254 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: we've cleaned a lot of that stuff up. But the 255 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: general contact now on drives, on screening, on cuts is 256 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: way more than it used to be. Those would have 257 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: been fouls in a heartbeat back in the eighties and nineties, 258 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: and now they're they're called incidental contact. So I watched 259 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: Duke more than any basketball team college basketball this year. 260 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: I watched them about six times, but I did watch 261 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: them all at home and then two games in the tournament. 262 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: So my takeaway was, you know, I've seen more of them, 263 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: and I think they'll I'm going to go with them. 264 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: It's very rare one a number one loses early, but 265 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: to have three number ones lose early? Is it coincidental? 266 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: Are the margins smaller between great teams and good teams? 267 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: What do you make of all the number one seeds 268 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: getting bounced? Well we've had this year, there's not been 269 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: as much separation from sort of great to very good. 270 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: So the top seven or eight teams I think remained 271 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: in the top ten throughout the year, not because they 272 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: were that much better than everybody else. They were just 273 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: more consistent. And whether it was per due or Arizona, 274 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: you name it. They were more consistent at a high level. 275 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: But we expected there to be kind of a turbulent 276 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: ride through the tournament. I didn't I didn't anticipate, uh, 277 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, Purdue losing to Fairley Dickinson. Um that that 278 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: that should never have happened. And and not to take 279 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: anything away from Fairley Dickinson. I was trying to explain, 280 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: like at one point, you know how in our job, 281 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: after a game, if you say, you know, wait a minute, 282 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: like Perdue was horrible, that shouldn't have happened. They're going 283 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: to give some credit to Fairley Dickinson. No, Fairley Dike, 284 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: Fairly Dickinson did everything they needed to do to win. 285 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: All credit to them for winning the game. But let's 286 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: not let's not gloss over the Purdue sucked. And and 287 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of like when when Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson, 288 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: we weren't saying there's one of the great heavyweights of 289 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: all time. He just beat one of the great Like, 290 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: come on, Mike Tyson sucked and it didn't make Buster 291 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: Douglas great, and and that that was sort of the 292 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: discussion of that. So we've had some we've had some 293 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: teams stepping a big pile of it early on. Arizona 294 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: did it with Princeton, but Princeton is pretty good. Like 295 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: that was that Princeton played really well and Arizona played 296 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: really poorly, and so that was a combination of things. 297 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: But Princeton dominated Missouri. They they're actually just as good 298 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: as Missouri. You know that if they played ten times, 299 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: it would probably be five and five. Um, But I 300 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: will see what happens when they move on. But um, 301 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: it's just not been one of those years where there's 302 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: been great, you know, great teams that have separated like 303 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: Baylor and get Zaga did a couple of years ago. 304 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,239 Speaker 1: I'm going to mention a coach and you tell me 305 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: his strength, uh, and just what he does really at 306 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: a high level. If I watched the entire I always 307 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: feel like Michigan State's got just length and bigs. And 308 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: they did add a couple huge blocks at the end 309 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: of the game today that just felt like as big 310 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: a defensive plays as the tournament had had. So if 311 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: I said to you in a short paragraph, Tomzzo strength is, 312 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: I would normally say, first toughness, Like his teams play tough, 313 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: they're disciplined in a good way, and he's very astute 314 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: offensively great after timeouts, he can get his team a 315 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: shot whenever he wants. Defensively, they're usually really good. They've 316 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: not been as good this year. They're they're they're solid, 317 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: but they're not great, and they're big guys are solid, 318 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: not great, so they're not as powerful a rebounding team. 319 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: But Tom Izzo is one of the best game prep guys, 320 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: best practice guys, and spends an enormous amount of time 321 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: with his team off the floor, so he knows those 322 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: guys inside now, and he's not like I get a 323 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: little tired of hearing people talk about motivation, you know, like, 324 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: really good players don't need to be motivated, they need 325 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: to be inspired. And Tom's an inspiring type. Now he 326 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: can get on him now, you know he'll he'll he'll 327 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: hit him to their core. But he builds him up too. 328 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: And uh, And I think he's one of the best 329 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: that's ever done it in any sport. I think he 330 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: could coach football tomorrow, would be just as good of 331 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: a coach. A guy that wasn't the first choice of 332 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: his school. And I had my doubts, but I think 333 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: he's just done a tremendous job. Mick Cronin at UCLA. 334 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: Mix surprised me at UCLA honestly when he took the job, 335 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: I was I was thinking, I don't know if he's 336 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: gonna like it there, and I don't know if Bill 337 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: I don't know if Bill Ball's gonna like him. Um, 338 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, like like after he hears him talk, you know, 339 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: and and all the you know, he could throw an 340 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: expletive in there every once in a while in practice, 341 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: and Bill would like John Wood, have ever said that. Um, 342 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: but he's always been a great defensive coach and talk 343 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: about tough like he gets guys to do things, and 344 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: at his size, of him to go and you know, 345 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: go at a big guy, you know, and get him 346 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: to get him to do things they don't want to 347 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: do is always amazed me. But the thing that's been 348 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: great is like how now that he has some what 349 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: I would say, better and more skilled players, how varied 350 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: his offense has become where it never appeared that way 351 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: to me at Cincinnati. He's always had it in his bag, 352 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: but he didn't he wasn't able to use it there 353 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: because he didn't have those type of players and now 354 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: he does. And you know, I like teasing Mick, like 355 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: you probably get a kick out of this. So I've 356 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: always teased Mick about his size. I'm a little bigger 357 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: than him. I think I noticed. And when he was 358 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: at Cincinnati, Raftery and mcdonna and I were coming in 359 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: and I would always kill Mick it like rubber chicken 360 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: dinners and all that over his size. When I knows 361 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: something and I'm walking into practice and his trainer was 362 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: given him some aspirin and he's got one of these 363 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: tiny little cups to take the water to take the aspirin. 364 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: And I walked in. He's got this tiny cup in 365 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: his hands, and he's like, oh Jesus, like like you know, 366 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: because I'm gonna be able to kill him about it. 367 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: You know, he's got to have the tiny cup. And 368 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: I love that guy. I just think he's one of 369 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: the best guys and truly one of the best coaches. Yeah, 370 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know how his recruiting would go because I 371 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: knew the kind of guys he recruited at Cincinnati, and 372 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: I thought, I don't know if it's gonna work here. Boy, 373 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: they play hard hard. It Roles reminds me of Tim 374 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: Gurgerich and un LV. Everybody thought they were flashy, and 375 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: I covered him for six years. I've never seen a 376 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: team practice like that. I mean, Mike Shachevski once told 377 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: me at a Final four in Denver. He goes, I've 378 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: never never played a team that place that hard. It's 379 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: just insane. So I do want to go. I want 380 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: to talk Calipari for a second. So you know, obviously 381 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: the Anthony Davis championship year, he's I think if he 382 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: got a second people would back off a little. There's 383 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: a huge gap between one and two. But I also 384 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: think John does care about the players. I've asked friends 385 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: of mine in coaching, Mark Fu and other coaches, and 386 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: they're like, listen, John can coach. I watched today. Kansas 387 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: State had real players. They got a couple of all 388 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: conference guys. So let's not pretend that you know Kentuck. 389 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: His players are here in Kansas State down there, they 390 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: got Wildcats have real good players. Is it fair though, 391 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: to say for the talent um, sometimes they've underachieved. How 392 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: do you how do you view Calipari's Kentucky run because 393 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: it was wobbly a bit this year, Well, cal shocked 394 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: me when he went to Kentucky. You know, I was 395 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: still and I've had periods of my life and career 396 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: where I get stuck in old school thinking. And when 397 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: he got to Kentucky and recruited that John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, 398 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: DeMarcus Cousins group, and he was going to go with 399 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: all freshmen, sort of the one and done thing. I thought, 400 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: can't win that way, Like you might be able to 401 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: win regular season game, I'm not going to win a 402 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: championship that way. And I was so wrong like like that, 403 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: he championed that and it was incredibly successful, and I 404 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: think he's an unbelievable coach, and I agree with you. 405 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: I think he does care about the players at the 406 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: at the high level. Now. You know, Cal can come 407 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: off publicly like a used car salesmen of times trying 408 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: to explain stuff to people. But he's an unbelievably good guy, 409 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: Like he's a really good person and a good guy, 410 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: I do think. And I'm not talked to him about this, 411 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: and I should if especially if I'm going to say 412 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: what I'm about to say, but I think he over 413 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: estimated the transfer portal and where the game was headed, 414 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: like he was ahead on the one and done thing. 415 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: He was first, and then coach k kind of followed 416 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: him in that and realized, Hey, we're playing against these 417 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: guys and someone want to come here, you might as well, 418 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: like we should. We need to start taking them. And 419 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, Cal went into the transfer portal last year 420 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: and his teams aren't as talented. They're they're good, but 421 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: they're not as talented as they've been. That team he 422 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: had in twenty fifteen that was thirty eight no before 423 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: they lost to Wisconsin. I really believe this Wisconsin was 424 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: the only team that could have been them that year, 425 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: the only team because of the way they played and 426 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: how old they were and the type of team they had. 427 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: But you know, how do you how do you have 428 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: a program like that that's that's consistently you know, great, 429 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: and then if you have a down year, people are 430 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: losing their minds because it's not like the guys that 431 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: are recruiting, the four year guys are outpacing outpacing Cow. 432 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: They're not. But the last two years, you know, they 433 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: just haven't been Kentucky because I don't think they've been 434 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: as talented, like they've brought in really good players that 435 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: came from somewhere else, but they're not. They're not lottery 436 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: picks like he's had. The tournament's heating up. No better 437 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: place to get in on the action than fan Duel, 438 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: America's number one sports book. Okay right now, download Fandel, 439 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: use the promo code columns c l I N up 440 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: to one thousand dollars back in bonus bets if your 441 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: first bet doesn't win the promo code Zoe's Colin. 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Maryland one eight 466 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: seven seven eight Hope, New York or text Hope New 467 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: York four six seven three six nine New York one 468 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: eight hundred five two two forty seven hundred Wyoming, or 469 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: visit www dot one eight hundred gambler dot net West Virginia. 470 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: I'm a believer in nil and I'm a believer in 471 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: transfer Portalum. One of the things I did say in football, 472 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: I said, I think I can be pro something and 473 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: there has to be guardrails. I can be pro sports gambling, 474 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: but think there need to be certain guardrails. I said 475 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: in foot ball, I think you should the first game 476 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: starts and the last game ends, you can't transfer. Then 477 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: I don't want a Wolverine transferring to Ohio State before 478 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: the game and taking like trade secrets. That was my 479 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: thing is just just put some guardrails up. I'm good 480 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: with all of it. But then again, we've had coaches, 481 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: you know, leave, you know before the season's over. You've 482 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 1: been a big proponent of nil transfer portal. Take on 483 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: my guardrail comment. Should we just have no guardrails? Are 484 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: there anything? Is there anything about either basketball or college 485 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: football transferring or nil that that does worry you? It 486 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: doesn't worry me. But I think there can and should 487 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: be reasonable regulation to everything. And and your point, your example, 488 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: and I know was taken to the extreme to make 489 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: a point of you know, a player transferring, you know 490 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: before a bowl game to there our tribal. We don't 491 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: have to worry about that. That's not an issue that's 492 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: not going to happen, and you know nobody's going to 493 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: do that, just like you wouldn't have an assistant coach 494 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: take a job before a game. I mean, they're the 495 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: ones that have more trade secrets than the players, and 496 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: they move around like crazy, including to their art tribals. 497 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: So that's not an issue. The biggest issue that the 498 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: nc DOUBLEA has with all of this is on the 499 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: legal side. You know, when they act in concert, it's 500 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: a cartel and they're running a foul of federal anti 501 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: trust law and all this stuff that the NCP is 502 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: talking about. About, Well, we can't make the players employees. 503 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: Yes you can. These schools employ thousands of students annually, 504 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: like there's a school in my home my home state 505 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: that employs six thousand of their own students a year. 506 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: Of course they can do it. They don't want to, 507 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: and they want Congress to bail them out. The problem 508 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 1: we have now is is because they wanted to just 509 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: do the nil thing, they can't. They can't control any 510 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: of it. And if they just paid the players and 511 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: made them employees, they'd be able to control it like 512 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: they controlled their coaches, like they control their staff members, 513 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: like they control their administ administrators. It's not that hard, 514 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: but we're making it really hard because they just don't 515 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: want to do it. And we get all these excuses about, well, 516 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: you start paying players, then goodbide all these other sports. No, no, no, 517 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: none of that's true. They're not going to cancel all 518 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: these sports. You know, they always ask where's the money 519 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: going to come from? They asked that when I was playing, 520 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: where's the money going to come from? And then they 521 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: signed these megamedia deals and the you know, so much 522 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: of the money that the athletic department that runs through 523 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: there goes back to the school. They'll say, well, the 524 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: scholarships are so expensive, Really, well, where are you paying 525 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: that money? They're paying it to the school. So they 526 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: have an athletic department account and they pay it to 527 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: the school. They're not out of nickel. That school is 528 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: not out of a nickel for a scholarship. And years ago, 529 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: what the NCAA schools did was they they basically said, 530 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: all right, the athletic departments have to be self sustaining. 531 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: But I don't think they imagined that they were going 532 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: to make this much money. So the schools are charging 533 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: these crazy rates for food service and you know, rent 534 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: and maintenance and all this stuff, it's going back to 535 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: the school. So they're taking a huge chunk of that 536 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: and huge, huge salaries are being paid. Gigantic staffs are 537 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: being put together. You know, you mentioned Colin when you 538 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: were covering Duke in ninety ninety one. I was a 539 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: graduate assistant. I was on the staff that I was 540 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: an assistant coach, a grad assistant. When we went on 541 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: a road trip, we flew commercial and took one bus 542 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: when we got there. So it's one bus. They have 543 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: to have two now to carry all the staff, you know. 544 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: So the staff and the players are now two of 545 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: these gigantic coach buses that you take in Europe, you know, 546 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: and these things. These athletic departments are bigger than the Pentagon. Now. 547 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: They got plenty of money, and it's not a it's 548 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: not a concern paying the players. They just don't want 549 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: to and we're gonna do it at some point, whether 550 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: it's five years, three years, whatever, They're going to decide 551 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: it is cleaner and easier to sign these players to contracts. 552 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: They'll retain them better and then they'll they'll have control 553 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: over what ANIL deals they can have then if they're 554 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: paying them, just like our companies pay us, they can 555 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: tell us what we can and can't do. They buy 556 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: that right through the employment contract. It's really as simple. 557 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: It works for the rest of the free world. The 558 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: idea that it won't work for college athletes is kind 559 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: of observed. So Mike Shashevski maybe it's because I covered him. 560 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: I've said this the other day on my show. I said, 561 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: Duke is the greatest team sport success story of my 562 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: sportscasting career. In forty years. They've had one losing season 563 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: and that was the back surgery season where coach k 564 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: couldn't walk. They went nine and three and they just 565 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: literally couldn't walk. There's nothing else like it. That's double 566 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: the Atriots dynasty, which in itself is absurd considering it's 567 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: a regulated violence, players get hurt. Makes no sense at 568 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: all to have a football dynasty for twenty years. But 569 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: I read the Ian O'Connor book. I love. I think 570 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: Ian's just stupendous, and you know it's funny. I read 571 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: it and the criticisms of Mike and I and I 572 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for Ian. He's not out 573 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: there to just throw out Haymakers. I found them almost likable. 574 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: That you know, Mike is a fighter, you know, the 575 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: army background, his size. Personally, it made me dislike Bob 576 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: Knight more and like Mike Zewski more, just because the 577 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: battle and he wanted to carve his own way and 578 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: he didn't want to be seen in the shadow of 579 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: Bobby after a while, which is I completely understand that 580 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: when you hear that and the hare have been critics 581 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: of Mike's offense, wasn't very creative, or he coached the 582 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: Olympic team, just one of it lands for me. Maybe 583 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm just maybe I'm not, maybe I have a confirmation 584 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: bias that I just I've always liked him. Was there 585 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: ever a criticism of coach k and you went, that's 586 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: on target. Yeah, that's a fair because I when I 587 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: read books and articles, I'm always like, it just doesn't 588 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: land to me. I think he's authentic. I think he's 589 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: a fighter. I think he's tough. I think he's super smart. 590 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: As you noted earlier in the One and Done, he's flexible, 591 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: he acknowledges when he's wrong. Was there ever any criticism 592 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: you heard of him and thought, maybe that's fair I'm 593 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: sure there has been. I can't think of an example, 594 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: because he's like I love him, you know, I've known 595 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: him since I was seventeen years old. There's probably I 596 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: don't think this is an overstatement. I wouldn't be doing 597 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: anything I'm doing now if it weren't for him. I 598 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: might be doing something like it. But I wouldn't have 599 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: gone to law school if not for him, I wouldn't 600 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: have I don't think I would have been in broadcasting 601 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: if not for him. I certainly would have had the 602 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: basketball life i've had if not for him. You know, 603 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: he made it possible for me to go to law school. 604 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: He offered me a spot on his staff, and then 605 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: he was very helpful in getting me into law school 606 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: and convincing the law school that I could I could 607 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: work as a coach and go to school at the 608 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: same time. Nobody wanted that to happen at Duke, and 609 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: he made it happen. And he told me at the time, 610 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: he goes, if this doesn't work out, you can always quit. 611 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: And I didn't know whether you met quit law school 612 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: or quit coaching, but I still never asked him that. 613 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: But when I was coming out of high school, you know. 614 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: I was one of these players where you know when 615 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: you you know, when you're in high school, you become 616 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: a good player. You know, local paper or the LA 617 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: Times or something does a story on you and they 618 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: ask you what do you want to do after basketball? 619 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: And I didn't have an answer. I didn't know. And 620 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: so at that time, like Frank Gifford was in broadcasting 621 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: and Don Drysdale was in broadcasting, so I said, well, 622 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: maybe broadcasting. And all the coaches that were recruiting me 623 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: read that, and Coach K did something about out of it it. 624 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: Like others would introduce you to somebody at the school 625 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: that was in the communications department, give you a tour 626 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: of it. Coach K introduced me to Chuck Howard, who 627 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: was a big time producer at ABC Sports, and I 628 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: got a job working for ABC Sports as a production assistant. 629 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: During the summertime, I was a runner basically, so I 630 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: did the I did. I did the Olympics and eighty 631 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: four in LA. I did Monday night baseball. Um I did. Uh. 632 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: I used to do bowling. I did bowling events with 633 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,479 Speaker 1: Chris Schenkel and Nelson Burton Junior, and um I got 634 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: I got all this. It was awesome. I got all this, 635 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: I met all these people, some of whom I still 636 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: worked with today, and that got me. That got me 637 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: in the door. And he was very thoughtful about, Okay, 638 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: this is what you want to do. Here's how we'll 639 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: make it happen. And he wasn't like some Svengali doing it. 640 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: He was trying to help you. And and he thought, hey, 641 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: maybe I wanted to get into coaching, offered me a 642 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: spot on his staff or and but but he knew 643 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Lass school, so he greased 644 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: the skids for that to happen. And h you know, 645 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: without him doing that, I don't I don't know what 646 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: I where I would have been. I don't think I 647 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: would have been selling pencils on the street somewhere. I 648 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: think I would have been okay. But but my life 649 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: would have looked a lot different if I hadn't said, 650 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: you know, I want to play for you, and when 651 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: I when I did, when I committed to him out 652 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: of high school, he was the least well known and 653 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: least accomplished coach that was recruiting me. I had no 654 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: idea who he was when he called me the first time, 655 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: no clue never heard of him, and I just really 656 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: liked him and throughout the four years I played and 657 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: after that. He's not like, he is not perfect. He 658 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: makes mistakes like everybody else, and he's ultra competitive, but 659 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: off the like one thing he never did. He may 660 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: he may jump you in practice and you feel like 661 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: you're the worst player it's ever played. He does not 662 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: carried off the floor. As soon as practice is over. 663 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: He may still be pissed off for a while, but 664 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: as soon as practice is over, he's he he likes 665 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: you again, like he's good. Um, now back on the floor. 666 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: You better do what you're supposed to do and the 667 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: next day or he'll jump you again. But he never, 668 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: like a lot of guys, carried off the floor, and 669 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: he doesn't do that. You know, Um, I'm in my 670 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: late fifties and you're probably in your fifth lay Yeah, yeah, 671 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: it's always hard to guess. Um, Harold Minor Pearl Washington 672 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: m iconic and devastating college players doesn't work in pro basketball. Um, 673 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: Christian Laytner was better than people think. Keith van Horne 674 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: both were actually pretty good scores in the NBA. Whenever 675 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: I hear the bus label, like cringe, because they were 676 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: both actually could score. Um, go back to all the 677 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: years you have done this, name a player who either 678 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: surprised you how good he was in the NBA. You 679 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: watched him in college you thought he would and then 680 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: you watched them as a pro, and you went, instead 681 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,439 Speaker 1: of finding a guy that didn't do it, let's find 682 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: a guy that J Billis thinks. And I thought, by 683 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: the way, I thought one Dixon was going to carve 684 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: the league up and he was a twiner, I was 685 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: totally wrong. Give me a college guy that shocked you 686 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: with his production in the NBA shocked me. When Dwight 687 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: Howard came out of high school, I thought he was 688 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: unskilled and didn't know how to play, and so I 689 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: was thinking, how how's this going to work? You know, 690 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: there are certain things he can't do and all that. 691 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: You know, he doesn't guard this, he didn't do this. 692 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: And I had friends of mine the NBA say, doesn't matter, 693 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: like his athleticism, trump's all that like, they don't make 694 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: him like that very often. And I was still stuck in. 695 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: That's what I was saying before about getting stuck in 696 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: old school. Thinking. I was still stuck in. You know 697 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: this high school kid, he can't do these things. He's 698 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: not ready yet and not thinking long term like he's 699 00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: going to be ready in a couple of years, Like 700 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: this is not that big of a deal, and he'll 701 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: learn how to do some of these things. And then 702 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: you know he was a you know, all time great 703 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,800 Speaker 1: Hall of famer um and that that took me a 704 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: while to wrap my head around, and I got over 705 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: it pretty quickly to now that doesn't even bother me. 706 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: You know, like like some young kid that that you think, 707 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: hey man, you should stick around, and they shouldn't stick 708 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: around if they're if they're that talented, if they want 709 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: to go, Like I think every young person should be 710 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: in college. I think that's the best place for a 711 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: young adult to be. But you know, these geniuses in 712 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: all these different fields, whether it's you're a genius and 713 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: coding or uh, you know, business or whatever, or you're 714 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: a genius musician, you know, you can leave college and 715 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: go back. And it's the same for an athlete. They've 716 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,959 Speaker 1: got a finite amount of time and they should go. Yeah, 717 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: there's a there's a I remember looking at video of 718 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: Dame Lillard and I told Tom Penn, who was the 719 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: Gym of Portland. I'm like, he's got kind of a 720 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: quirky shot. I don't know, and then and then obviously wrong. 721 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: And then Kevin Durant. I remember telling somebody, God, he 722 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: weighs one hundred eighty, who's he going to defend? And 723 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, he's gonna be fine. He's going to 724 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: score thirty points a night. Well, this has been fun. 725 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: Before we do this, we're going to watch the TCU 726 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: Gonzaga game, which starts about ten minutes from right now. 727 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: Mark Few is one of my favorite people. You know, 728 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: I went to college at Eastern Washington University and watched 729 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: John Stockton score forty two against Eastern Washington. You know, 730 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: we talked about coaches. Will end with this if I 731 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: say Mark Few what sticks for you? What's his strength? 732 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: His strength is he's a savant offensively and he is 733 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: a true believer. Like you know, I've been friends with 734 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: him for a long time. He's one of the people 735 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: not only I respect, but absolutely love. And I mean 736 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: that truly. I been one of those that maybe ten 737 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: years ago or so, said you ought to think about 738 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: this other job. You know, job would come open, they'd 739 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: want Fewey and say you ought to take that you 740 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: can win you can win a championship there, and you go, 741 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: I can win one here. I think he was the 742 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: only one that really believed that. Maybe some people on 743 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: the staff, but he was the only one that really 744 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: believed that Gonzaga could do this. So when you were 745 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: saying before about Duke, you know, and the Patriots, the 746 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: greatest thing you've covered, I was thinking you might want 747 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: to throw Gonzaga in there, because you know, few has 748 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 1: gotten a ton of guys fired over the years because 749 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: all these presidents think that their coach, they hire this guy, 750 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: their coach can make them into Gonzaga and they can't 751 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: like what he's done there is ridiculous. It's ridiculous, like 752 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: this year, or they went into the tournament as a 753 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: number twelve in the country in a three seat and 754 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: people are disappointed. People are disappointed, and you go, they're 755 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: the West Coast Conference. They almost closed that. You know 756 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,479 Speaker 1: this better, you know, having gone to school right there. 757 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: They almost close the doors on that school in the 758 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: mid nineties, and the basketball program saved the school. If 759 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: they didn't go to the Elite eight and ninety nine, 760 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: there's a good chance that that Gonzaga might not have survived, 761 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: and now it's one of the hottest schools in the West, 762 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: and that program is internationally known and everybody now they're 763 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: getting bagged on because well, they haven't won it yet. 764 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: They haven't won it yet. You know, they've been to 765 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: the tournament twenty some straight years and all you know, 766 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: they've been to the championship game twice. They've been to 767 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: Elite eights and seventh straight Sweet sixteens. They're the only 768 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: team in the country that's done that, and if they 769 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: do it today, it'll be eight straight. Nobody's done that now. 770 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: And they go, wow, they can't win in the tournament, like, oh, oh, 771 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: so the West Coast Conference and you want to bag 772 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: on that. But then they get to the tournament and 773 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: they do something that no other programs done, Like how 774 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,959 Speaker 1: does that work? How did they pull that trick? He's 775 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: one of the like he's really he's unbelievable how he 776 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: is with the players, Like in practice, you know, he's 777 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: he's hard nosed and he's tough, but at the same time, 778 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: like he's got a sense of humor with him and 779 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: he strikes the right balance, like he wants those guys 780 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: to fall out, and they're not going to run some 781 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: cute little mid major offense. They're gonna they're gonna they're 782 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: gonna run what beats the big shots. And because they 783 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: are one of the big shots, like they're they're as 784 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: big shot as any program they get, you know, they 785 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: get players now that anybody would love. Um. They're not 786 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: just like, Okay, we got to get a few guards 787 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: and make a bunch of threes and see if we can, 788 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, throw a rock at Goliath. They are Goliath 789 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: now and it's it's I think it's one of the 790 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 1: great stories in sports history. Frankly in this country. I 791 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: was on his deck. He's got a beautiful home and 792 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: spoken overlooking the valley and name dropping. We were having 793 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: a beer and there was a caribou up by his pool. 794 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's unbelievable, and we were talking about you know, 795 00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: and he said, first of all, he goes, we have 796 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: two great boosts. I can always fly private. He goes 797 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,879 Speaker 1: a lot of these big jobs can't. And he said, 798 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, the second thing is I can recruit a 799 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: three star kid and nobody's crushing me over. And he goes, 800 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: some of these kids, they're they're just raw. They just 801 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: need love. And he said, I love those players. They 802 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: define our program. He goes, you bring a three star 803 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: guy into a Kentucky or a Carolt of your boosters 804 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: are all over you, and he's like, he's like, I 805 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: found you know, I found Oregons come after him. UCLA's 806 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: come after him. He's like, he's like, I've found my home. 807 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: And it's He's impossible when you meet him to not 808 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: root for. I find one of those seminal people in 809 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: my job. Impossible not to root for. If you ever 810 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: meet Mark Few, I just love him. Yeah, he's just 811 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: like the nicest guy and like you can sit out 812 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: on his deck. He'll never talk about basketball, talk about 813 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: other stuff. And he's got other interests. He goes fishing 814 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,280 Speaker 1: and all this. All that, he got a balanced life. 815 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: His wife Marcy's great, got a great family. He and 816 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,240 Speaker 1: his assistants are all like great friends. Now they're former 817 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: players because he's getting up there. He's getting up there 818 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: in our stratus age wise, he's older than me. But 819 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: he's just a he's just a normal good dude that's 820 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: got extraordinary ability and like he's one of the real 821 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: good guys in the game. Well, you're a busy guy. 822 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: Let's go watch that game. You have so many responsibilities 823 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,359 Speaker 1: and family and job, and I just appreciate you taking 824 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: thirty minutes for us. I really genuinely appreciate it. No, 825 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: it's my pleasure. And I have two families I can 826 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: I can hang with either one of them. I appreciate it. 827 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: Thanks Jay, all right, brother the Volume. Make sure to 828 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: check out the dram On Green Show. I brought Draymond 829 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining 830 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: voices in sports. Unique perspective understands behind the rope, also 831 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: chops up with guests like Gary Peyton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. 832 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: Make sure download The Draymond Green Show wherever you get 833 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,720 Speaker 1: your podcasts, only on the Volume podcast Network.