Speaker 1: Pushkin, Hey, everybody, it's Jake. When we're making these shows,
Speaker 1: we talk to a lot of people, but we can't
Speaker 1: always include everyone's voices or everything they said. So what
Speaker 1: you're about to hear is a conversation that did not
Speaker 1: make our regular season, but which really gave me a
Speaker 1: lot of insight into Keith Giamanco, both as a man
Speaker 1: and as the boy he once was. Because this is
Speaker 1: a conversation with one of Keith's childhood buddies. In fact,
Speaker 1: Keith introduced him to me as my oldest dearest friend,
Speaker 1: a man named Mike Walton. Mike and Keith grew up
Speaker 1: together in Florescent, Missouri. They ran around with the other
Speaker 1: neighborhood kids, getting into various shenanigans. Later on, as adults,
Speaker 1: they ended up living very close to one another. Mike
Speaker 1: lived just as stone's throw away from the house that
Speaker 1: the police raided the night that Keith was arrested. Keith's
Speaker 1: arrest floored Mike in some ways. He's still scratching his
Speaker 1: head with questions. But when he looks back on that
Speaker 1: time when Keith was on his crime spree, there are
Speaker 1: a few moments that stick out. Small moments the kind
Speaker 1: that didn't seem important then, but now, looking back, feel
Speaker 1: like clues or perhaps even omens of what was to come.
Speaker 1: When I spoke with Mike, he told me about one
Speaker 1: such moment. It occurred during the year leading up to
Speaker 1: Keith's arrest. At the time, Mike was working as a
Speaker 1: salesman at an auto dealership. One day he got a
Speaker 1: call from Keith.
Speaker 2: And he's like, hey, Mike. He goes, I was in
Speaker 2: Philadelphia somewhere with his girlfriend over a week and he goes,
Speaker 2: I left my wall, and he goes, you think I
Speaker 2: can borrow a hundred bucks? And I worked at the dealership.
Speaker 2: I was making really good money. I said, sure, Keith,
Speaker 2: come on up, came up, gave him one hundred dollars,
Speaker 2: and he says, I'll call you when I got your money.
Speaker 2: You know. About a week later he called me and
Speaker 2: paid me my money back. Then he asked me again,
Speaker 2: you know, to borrow some money. A couple of weeks later.
Speaker 1: So again Mike loans Keith a hundred bucks, and again
Speaker 1: Keith gets the money to pay him back. At that time,
Speaker 1: Keith was living in the little shoe box house, the
Speaker 1: one he moved into after the foreclosure Keith was sleeping
Speaker 1: on the couch so his daughters could each have their
Speaker 1: own room. Mike didn't know much about Keith's financial troubles.
Speaker 1: Keith tended to keep problems tucked away out of sight,
Speaker 1: even from old friends. Anyway, Mike swings by Keith's house
Speaker 1: to pick up the money he's owed, and Mike still
Speaker 1: remembers the scene when.
Speaker 2: I went over there and there was a table sitting there,
Speaker 2: a coffee table, a couch and stuff, and he had
Speaker 2: a stack of hundreds on the man all there and
Speaker 2: he's like, here, you know, grab your hundred, and he
Speaker 2: handed me one. I was like, cool, man, I said,
Speaker 2: no problem. I asked him, you know, what are you
Speaker 2: doing on I'm day trading, and I thought he was
Speaker 2: doing good on day trade, you know, And apparently he
Speaker 2: wasn't doing good on day trade, and he was doing
Speaker 2: good on bankrupt.
Speaker 1: Mike never suspected what was really going on at the time,
Speaker 1: Like so many people around Saint Louis, he and his
Speaker 1: wife were following the story of the boony Hat bandit,
Speaker 1: but it never occurred to him, not even for a second,
Speaker 1: that the man behind those robberies was his friend Keith.
Speaker 1: Why hadn't Keith opened up to Mike about the trouble
Speaker 1: he was in before he robbed those banks? I mean,
Speaker 1: a figure, If Keith needed help, wouldn't he turn to
Speaker 1: his oldest dearest friend. Is a curious thing, especially male friendship,
Speaker 1: where often much goes unseid. Being a guy myself, I
Speaker 1: have some sense of this. So what does it say
Speaker 1: about us as men that sometimes we prize loyalty and
Speaker 1: pride over intimacy? And why do we sometimes not see
Speaker 1: the things that are right in front of us? I'm
Speaker 1: Jay Calpern, and this is deep cover the Family Man
Speaker 1: today's episode. My oldest dearest friend. Mike and Keith grew
Speaker 1: up together. They knew each other's families. In fact, listening
Speaker 1: to Mike's memories of their childhood, it almost sounded like
Speaker 1: they were family.
Speaker 2: Keith really liked my dad because my da, you know,
Speaker 2: did what he could for him because he knew he
Speaker 2: didn't have one here. And I ain't saying he doesn't
Speaker 2: have a daddy. He had a dad, but we never
Speaker 2: heard from him, We never seen him. I never met him.
Speaker 2: What was his mom like? She was a cook at
Speaker 2: Snooks the grocery store, and she was great Marge was
Speaker 2: her name, and I loved her just like my mom.
Speaker 2: She was a very very pleasant lady to be around,
Speaker 2: let's say, you know. But she was a single mom,
Speaker 2: you know, so didn't really get to see her much.
Speaker 2: I was always over there with Keith and we'd stay
Speaker 2: out of her hair.
Speaker 1: Mike and Keith's friendship has that easy quality that says
Speaker 1: you were there for it all the good, the bad,
Speaker 1: and the mischievous.
Speaker 2: You know. Come on, we were growing up in this
Speaker 2: neighborhood and we broke into one house down at the
Speaker 2: end of the street. We were all a little kids,
Speaker 2: you know. They were on vacation, and we knew they
Speaker 2: were on vacation, and we got some biscuits out of
Speaker 2: the ice box. We weren't in there stealing money or nothing.
Speaker 2: We were just in there being kids and taking the
Speaker 2: little kids across the street with us. You know. There
Speaker 2: was like four or five of us went in his
Speaker 2: house and just tore it up. That we didn't steal nothing, No,
Speaker 2: but I guess we did steal some biscuit though that
Speaker 2: was about it. That was not as much of a
Speaker 2: life of crime as you'd seen. Keith participated. Absolutely, that
Speaker 2: was the only prime I've seen him participate with me,
Speaker 2: and you know, if he did stuff with other people
Speaker 2: after that, I never knew about it.
Speaker 1: So they got into a little trouble as kids, stealing
Speaker 1: biscuit dough from the neighbor's house. Good clean, Midwestern fun,
Speaker 1: think the little rascals. As they grew up, they remained friends.
Speaker 1: Keith's wife, Becky, even watched Mike's children for a period
Speaker 1: of time, but they weren't as close as they once were,
Speaker 1: and Mike never knew about Keith's financial problems.
Speaker 2: I knew him and Becky had split up, that she
Speaker 2: wasn't living with him no more and it was just
Speaker 2: him and the daughters, But I had no inclination that
Speaker 2: they weren't making it. You know, he had a nice
Speaker 2: house and I go over there and wasn't like they're
Speaker 2: wasting food and stuff. So you had no idea really
Speaker 2: that he was in financial trouble. No, he didn't put
Speaker 2: that out at all to me. You know, he told
Speaker 2: me he was a day trader and what I thought
Speaker 2: he was doing good.
Speaker 1: Why do you think, Mike, I mean, like you obviously
Speaker 1: are someone that he that he trusts, and he knows
Speaker 1: you have long old friendship, what's your what's your best
Speaker 1: bet for why?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: I mean you? Of all people, it seems there could
Speaker 1: be someone that he could tell, but he was having
Speaker 1: a hard time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if he thought I wouldn't
Speaker 2: help him out. You know, I was in a position
Speaker 2: at that time. You know, if he needed a little help,
Speaker 2: I could have helped him. Maybe he was too proud
Speaker 2: to ask, So I don't know. I just don't think
Speaker 2: he would have ever came and said, hey, Mike, you
Speaker 2: know I need a thousand dollars. Hey, Mike, I need
Speaker 2: a hundred's one thing, but you know I need a
Speaker 2: thousands another thing. Then I would have started prying. You know, hey,
Speaker 2: what's going on? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: That makes perfect sense to me. Keith probably understood that
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars ask could fly under the radar, but
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars ask not so much. Mike says that
Speaker 1: he was well positioned to help his friend financially because
Speaker 1: he was making good money as a car salesman.
Speaker 2: I worked at a local Chevy dealer, started as a
Speaker 2: porter for five years and worked my way into sales
Speaker 2: and I ended up being their top truck salesman for
Speaker 2: a bunch of years. That's why I said, you know,
Speaker 2: I was making great money. I could have helped if
Speaker 2: he you know, if he really came to me and said, hey, Mike,
Speaker 2: you know this is the deal. I haven't gave him
Speaker 2: the money here, pay me back when you can. I
Speaker 2: would have kept him from robbing a bank if I
Speaker 2: could have helped him. So you were good at your job.
Speaker 1: You were at the top top truck salesman.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for a few few years doing that line
Speaker 2: of work.
Speaker 1: I think you would probably have to be pretty good
Speaker 1: at reading people.
Speaker 2: Am I right about that? Oh yeah, I'm a great
Speaker 2: guess one thing in car sales, you got thirty seconds
Speaker 2: to read somebody. I could tell you in thirty seconds
Speaker 2: if I was going to sell a car or not,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't read Keith. It's still to this day
Speaker 2: it makes me think, you know, how good was that?
Speaker 2: Because yeah, I mean I thirty seconds I knew if
Speaker 2: I was selling a car or not. How many years
Speaker 2: did I know Keith before? I you know, I couldn't
Speaker 2: read him to be robbing a bank, you know, So
Speaker 2: he was good at not expressing.
Speaker 1: We've talked in this series about how parents hide things
Speaker 1: from their kids to protect them from hard truths about
Speaker 1: the world, and sometimes to protect the parents from hard
Speaker 1: truths about themselves. But it's telling that Keith was doing
Speaker 1: that with Mike too. I mean, this is the man
Speaker 1: whom Keith described as his oldest, dearest friend, whose dad
Speaker 1: was like a stand in for Keith's dad. Their history
Speaker 1: it went deep. I think that if there was anyone
Speaker 1: Keith could level with and reach out to, it'd be Mike.
Speaker 1: But I also get their silence. I grew up in Buffalo,
Speaker 1: and I knew guys like Mike and Keith. I knew teachers, coaches,
Speaker 1: and other dads who sounded a lot like them. When
Speaker 1: they hung out, they had this ease with one another.
Speaker 1: You could feel the history between them. Sure, sometimes they
Speaker 1: were awkward, the way guys can be, but you could
Speaker 1: also sense among them a kind of stoic, gruff kindness,
Speaker 1: a brotherhood that came with shoveling each other's walkways and
Speaker 1: showing up at funerals and driving each other's kids to school.
Speaker 1: Growing up, I admired a lot of men like this,
Speaker 1: but I didn't often see them set down their bottle
Speaker 1: of the Bat's Blue after a Bill's game and just
Speaker 1: talk about their deepest fears or their shortcomings. I mention
Speaker 1: all this not because I think there was any kind
Speaker 1: of failure here in Mike and Keith's friendship. I bring
Speaker 1: it up because the context of their friendship feels both
Speaker 1: familiar and illuminating to me. It helps me understand Keith's
Speaker 1: mindset leading up to the crime spree. It helps me
Speaker 1: put myself in his shoes, even if just for a
Speaker 1: little bit, I imagine feeling squeezed and scared and so
Speaker 1: alone that even with my closest friend, I had to
Speaker 1: put on a show of being happy and trouble free.
Speaker 1: And I'm reminded of that Henry David Thureaux quote, the
Speaker 1: mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back one day. Back in September two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: Mike learned the truth that his longtime friend Keith had
Speaker 1: been living a double life.
Speaker 2: At work at this local dealership. And I got a
Speaker 2: call from my sister and she's like, turn on the news.
Speaker 2: They're interviewing Dad right now. Keith got arrested for Robin Banks.
Speaker 2: He's the boony Hat bandit. So I was selling a car,
Speaker 2: and I told these people, I said, here, give me
Speaker 2: a minute. I went downstairs where I was working to
Speaker 2: turn the TV on, and they're interviewing my sister and
Speaker 2: my dad and stuff, you know, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: how do you wrap your head around that? When she
Speaker 2: says that it was tough, you know, I couldn't believe
Speaker 2: it at first, That's what I said. Me and my
Speaker 2: wife had to go back and really look at these
Speaker 2: pictures they were putting on TV. And you know, back
Speaker 2: in eight the cameras, I guess wasn't that great, but
Speaker 2: they had their blurry pictures of them and stuff, and
Speaker 2: me and my wife we were looking at the TV
Speaker 2: after he got caught, and it's like, man, I can
Speaker 2: see the resemblance.
Speaker 1: Would you have if someone at the time asked you, like,
Speaker 1: who do you think the boony Hat band it is?
Speaker 2: I mean, who would you have thought it would have been?
Speaker 2: I would have had to look at the pictures better,
Speaker 2: you know, because I wouldn't have one thing. I did
Speaker 2: never think that it was a friend of mine. Not
Speaker 2: one time did I think the Boonie Hat band it
Speaker 2: was somebody I would have known. It was a shock
Speaker 2: to me to say the least.
Speaker 1: Suddenly Mike is looking at all his memories of Keith
Speaker 1: through an entirely different lens. That borrowed money, the stack
Speaker 1: of hundreds, this weird set of facts that kind of
Speaker 1: added up, but not really.
Speaker 2: I mean, when I walked in that house, there was
Speaker 2: no nothing that would make me think, oh man, this
Speaker 2: guy must have just robbed a bank. Look at all
Speaker 2: these hundreds. That wasn't what I thought. I mean, the
Speaker 2: way he talked about day trading, he didn't tell me
Speaker 2: he wasn't doing good in it. Obviously he wasn't going
Speaker 2: to tell me that or else then I would have
Speaker 2: probably we questioned, hey, where'd you get these hundreds? But
Speaker 2: the two times he borrowed that money from me, I
Speaker 2: got two Chris one hundred dollars bills back. So it
Speaker 2: was like right after he borrowed it from me and
Speaker 2: then had to rob a bank to pay me back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like, how'd he explain the fact that, like,
Speaker 3: one week he's asking you to borrow a hundred bucks
Speaker 3: and then when you go to repaan he's got a
Speaker 3: stack on hundreds.
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, the first time his girlfriend he
Speaker 2: said his girlfriend was in Philadelphia, or something, and he
Speaker 2: came back and he forgot his wallet. That was the
Speaker 2: first time, and the second time. I just gave him
Speaker 2: the money. You know. I didn't cry, let's see, And
Speaker 2: I kind of wish I would have, but I guess
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have mattered if I did, because he had
Speaker 2: already started robbing the banks.
Speaker 1: WHOA did he seem nervous at all?
Speaker 2: No, not at all, not whatsoever, you know. And shit,
Speaker 2: if I hadn't known he was robbing banks as hell,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have went to his house thinking, man, I
Speaker 2: might get over there and then they're gonna raid him.
Speaker 2: You know, I would have never went over there.
Speaker 1: So he was just like calm as could be when
Speaker 1: he went over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was on his computer doing his thing.
Speaker 1: Do you think that like he had some like off
Speaker 1: switch in his brain where he could like compartmentalize it
Speaker 1: or something, because like, honestly, Mike, if I had just
Speaker 1: robbed the bank and I had, I think I'd be
Speaker 1: a hot mess. I'd be nervous about getting taught and everything.
Speaker 2: I'd be up walking the windows and all that stuff. No,
Speaker 2: he was just Keith sitting at the computer. You know. Here,
Speaker 2: here's your money. You know, what are you doing now, Keith?
Speaker 2: I'm day trade and I don't know a whole lot
Speaker 2: about that day trade and stuff. So I just thought
Speaker 2: he was, you know, doing his job. And when I
Speaker 2: went over there, I mean, he's on the computer doing
Speaker 2: something I didn't look to see, you know, maybe another
Speaker 2: map up of the next bank he was gonna get
Speaker 2: or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you think that his brain works differently than yours,
Speaker 1: that he would be able to be that calm like.
Speaker 2: That and must have you know, I mean, he wasn't,
Speaker 2: never took off nervous to me, even when he was
Speaker 2: borrowing one hundred dollars from me. I didn't think nothing
Speaker 2: about it. Nothing. It was Keith. You know Keith I've
Speaker 2: known since I was three years old. Here you go, buddy,
Speaker 2: pay me back when you get it. And there was
Speaker 2: no He was calm, cool and collective.
Speaker 1: Did it make you feel like he might not really
Speaker 1: know this guy as well as he thought you.
Speaker 2: Did at that time? You know, that's obviously at that time.
Speaker 2: You know, I knew Keith, but I didn't know him
Speaker 2: that good to where I would have thought he would
Speaker 2: rob a bank.
Speaker 1: There's this Icelandic saying, roughly translated, it goes keen is
Speaker 1: the eye of the guest, the idea being that sometimes
Speaker 1: being a stranger means you see things more clearly, because
Speaker 1: being overly familiar with a person or a place, well,
Speaker 1: it can kind of put you to sleep so that
Speaker 1: you miss things. So often we believe that intimacy means
Speaker 1: knowing someone well, but in some ways the opposite is true.
Speaker 1: Intimacy means not knowing someone or seeing important aspects of
Speaker 1: who they are or who they have become, because after
Speaker 1: a while, we just stop looking, just like we stop
Speaker 1: looking at the artwork that hangs in our living room
Speaker 1: or the crack on our bedroom wall. Basically, we stop
Speaker 1: paying attention to the details in our lives, especially if
Speaker 1: those details and their implications might invite unpleasant questions. But
Speaker 1: after Keith's arrest, Mike was being forced to see, and
Speaker 1: just like Marissa and Elise, the media was now hounding
Speaker 1: him to speak.
Speaker 2: They kept calling me wanting me to do an interview
Speaker 2: with him on the news and stuff, and I told him,
Speaker 2: I said, no, I'm not going to do it. You know,
Speaker 2: I said, I'm not going to sit and talk bad
Speaker 2: about a friend of mine that had an issue. You know,
Speaker 2: everybody has issues, and I knew it would come out,
Speaker 2: you know, what was going on and why. And obviously
Speaker 2: I didn't get to speak with Keith after he got arrested.
Speaker 2: But now I wasn't going to I don't care what
Speaker 2: he did. I wasn't going to say bad stuff about him,
Speaker 2: you know, And that's all they wanted. They didn't want
Speaker 2: to hear none of the good stuff. They blew my
Speaker 2: phone up. I mean blew it up. I had to
Speaker 2: block so many numbers. It was a joke.
Speaker 1: I think Mike did feel protective of his friend, but
Speaker 1: I also wonder if part of the reason he didn't
Speaker 1: speak to the media was that he himself he was
Speaker 1: struggling to make sense of Keith's actions. What could he say?
Speaker 1: Even now, all these years later, he says he still
Speaker 1: can't fully understand it.
Speaker 2: I can't figure out what made him go that way
Speaker 2: because I got three kids and I couldn't have fathom
Speaker 2: doing what he did. But I wasn't in the position
Speaker 2: he was in at the time. You know, I can't
Speaker 2: justify what he did in any means, but I know this.
Speaker 2: You know, you do the crime, you pay your time,
Speaker 2: and as far as I'm concerned, you know, he did
Speaker 2: his time over his time, probably, I think they might
Speaker 2: have run him into the ground a little bit on
Speaker 2: the sensing because there's people out here killing people getting
Speaker 2: out of jail quicker than he did, which I think
Speaker 2: isn't right. You know, he didn't kill anybody, but I
Speaker 2: know he terrorized a lot of people. When you rob
Speaker 2: eleven banks to get caught on the twelfth one, there's
Speaker 2: you know, at least twelve people that you traumatized that
Speaker 2: I know of, And I mean, I don't know where
Speaker 2: to go from that.
Speaker 1: You know, did you feel when you found out that
Speaker 1: he had been kind of living this double life? Did
Speaker 1: it unsettle you?
Speaker 2: Would? All? It bothered me that he was capable of
Speaker 2: doing something so stupid, You know, That's the way I
Speaker 2: look at it. I mean, I got three kids, and
Speaker 2: I couldn't have done nothing like that, knowing that if
Speaker 2: I got caught, I was going to prison. There's no
Speaker 2: way I would have done anything like that. You know,
Speaker 2: I ain't saying I was the best person in town.
Speaker 2: I mean I had my bibbles and dabbles too, you know,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, But when it came down to
Speaker 2: my kids. You know, they were my kids. I would
Speaker 2: have had to do anything I could for him. And
Speaker 2: that's the way I felt. Keith must have felt when
Speaker 2: he was robbing these banks that that was his best resort.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't. I know, he didn't think it was
Speaker 2: the right thing to do, but I can't believe he
Speaker 2: thought that was the way he needed to handle things.
Speaker 2: It didn't make me think less of him, It just
Speaker 2: it made me think, you know, why would you go
Speaker 2: to do something that you're going to try to help
Speaker 2: your daughters with, knowing if you get caught you're not
Speaker 2: going to have your daughters. You ain't gonna get to
Speaker 2: raise them no more. That's the only thing that really
Speaker 2: gets me is, you know, how did you not think that?
Speaker 2: Why would you not think you weren't thinking about your
Speaker 2: daughters trying to keep them in school, That's the way
Speaker 2: I feel about it. You were thinking about something different
Speaker 2: because what he was doing was going to take him
Speaker 2: away from his daughters, and you know, he didn't get
Speaker 2: to see him graduate, he didn't get to go to
Speaker 2: his mom's funeral, he didn't get to do a lot
Speaker 2: of things because of his decision. What do you think
Speaker 2: he was thinking a guy, if not his daughter's I
Speaker 2: wish I knew. I really don't. I don't know. He
Speaker 2: wasn't thinking as far as I'm concerned. You know, how
Speaker 2: can you say you were thinking.
Speaker 1: Have you talked to Keith since he got out about
Speaker 1: why he did what he did or what his thinking was?
Speaker 2: No, No, we haven't really sat down now. I'm not
Speaker 2: one to pry. You know, I don't live in the past.
Speaker 2: That's one thing I won't do. You know, living in
Speaker 2: the past is not good. I'll visit there, but that's
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Anything else that you think that is that I didn't
Speaker 1: ask about that? You think that's worth that stings out
Speaker 1: in your memory, sends out in your memory about Keith
Speaker 1: when you think about all this.
Speaker 2: He's a good person, man. I just you know, something
Speaker 2: had to click in his head that I can't figure
Speaker 2: out what it was to make him do what he did.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I would love the opportunity for
Speaker 2: him to sit and tell me, you know, what made
Speaker 2: him do what he did. But you know, he's only
Speaker 2: been out of prison since September and I know yet
Speaker 2: he's lived with that for eighteen years, you know, in
Speaker 2: prison thinking about all that stuff, and he'd even call
Speaker 2: me on the phone. And when he called me on
Speaker 2: the phone, we'd get to talk, you know, whatever length
Speaker 2: of the phone would last into prison ten minutes or whatever,
Speaker 2: twenty minutes. And yeah, I wasn't asking him then neither.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like here, I just want to talk
Speaker 2: about good stuff. Yeah, I'm not gonna, like I said,
Speaker 2: I don't live in the past.
Speaker 1: In one of my conversations with Elise, she told me
Speaker 1: that at a certain point she just had to stop
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what her father had done.
Speaker 1: She'd spent years turning it over in her mind, searching
Speaker 1: for an explanation that would make it all up. But
Speaker 1: the harder she looked, the more trapped she felt by
Speaker 1: the question. Eventually, she realized that if she wanted to
Speaker 1: move forward, and if she wanted to have any chance
Speaker 1: of rebuilding a relationship with her dad, well then she
Speaker 1: had to let it go. I sent something similar here
Speaker 1: with Mike. Mike was and is a loyal friend. He
Speaker 1: stood by Keith through all those years in prison, and
Speaker 1: even though he was curious and maybe even unsettled about
Speaker 1: Keith's explanation, Mike says he never pressed the matter, which
Speaker 1: to me seems a bit surprising but maybe also wise,
Speaker 1: because sometimes I still think those old dads and teachers
Speaker 1: and coaches that I knew back in my Buffalo days
Speaker 1: understood some fundamental truth about friendship, that sometimes friendship's not
Speaker 1: always about knowing. It's about showing up and being there
Speaker 1: to loan your buddy one hundred bucks when he asks
Speaker 1: for it, no questions asked. This episode of Deep Cover
Speaker 1: The Family Man was produced by Isaac Carter and Amy
Speaker 1: Gaines McQuaid. It was edited by Daphne chen. Our executive
Speaker 1: producer is Jacob Smith, mastering by Jake Gorsky. Original scoring
Speaker 1: in our theme were composed by Luis Gara. Our show
Speaker 1: art was designed by Sean Carney, fact checking by Aka Robbins.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Karen Chakerjie Morgan Ratner, Kira Posey, Jake Flanagan, Krengilliard, Fisher,
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Christina Sullivan, and Greta Cohane. I'm Jake Halpern