Speaker 1: Hey, what I'm welcome in. I'm Doug gottliebiss is a
Speaker 1: Final four edition of All Ball, and we got a
Speaker 1: great guest boy, says Mike hen Mikey henn't is. He's
Speaker 1: the Tommy Boy of college basketball, all right, seven years,
Speaker 1: five schools. We take you through each water film and
Speaker 1: I will tell you that, you know, talking to his
Speaker 1: coaches de Penn State, I loved him. But if you
Speaker 1: listen to his tale, I'm sure there's probably all the
Speaker 1: classic signs which many of us had when we played,
Speaker 1: where you don't know where the relationship went bad with
Speaker 1: your coach, but you end up ending on terms that
Speaker 1: you don't like. So I mean, there's not a true
Speaker 1: pattern there because some schools he went to in their
Speaker 1: first building and some one he had to leave when
Speaker 1: it was all and when the coaches run was ending.
Speaker 1: But there's a COVID you're in there. There's a little
Speaker 1: bit of everything. So we'll get to that in a moment.
Speaker 1: Let me first give you my thoughts on this Final four.
Speaker 1: You know we're going to do this thing in the
Speaker 1: in the sugar I'm going to start calling things the
Speaker 1: sugar media, right, and the sugar media is the what
Speaker 1: a sugar right makes you feel good in a very
Speaker 1: short period of time, you know, fills you up with
Speaker 1: those with those weak carbs. It makes it makes you
Speaker 1: feel good for just a short short period of time
Speaker 1: when the reality is that I don't want to say
Speaker 1: traditional media whatever, but the way I look at it,
Speaker 1: you have to tell the entire story. Even the entire
Speaker 1: story isn't great. In this case, the entire story is
Speaker 1: very different from the one that you're going to be
Speaker 1: told or the one that some college coaches want to
Speaker 1: convince themselves of. And maybe maybe what Miami has created
Speaker 1: with the help of John Louise, maybe that's the future.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a dinosaur and sit here
Speaker 1: and tell you that you aren't buy a team, But
Speaker 1: there are plenty of teams that we're put together through
Speaker 1: NIL that didn't accomplish not just what Miami has accomplished
Speaker 1: and get into the Final four, but even what Alabama
Speaker 1: accomplished or Arkansas accomplished get into the Sweet sixteen. But
Speaker 1: Arkansas is a great example of two things. Obviously NIL,
Speaker 1: but I would also point out that it's really hard
Speaker 1: to win with young players because of the Mike Hens
Speaker 1: of the world, right, I mean a nineteen year old
Speaker 1: kid who's going to be a very good player versus
Speaker 1: a twenty four year old kid who's going to be better,
Speaker 1: who's going to be better than one game. And that's
Speaker 1: a better answer than oh, the team that spent the
Speaker 1: most in NIL. What I think the new NIL rules
Speaker 1: are going to try to accomplish, although my guess is
Speaker 1: they don't accomplish is limiting to one transfer. That's the
Speaker 1: big thing, the one transfer. And if you're listening to
Speaker 1: this and you're a basketball coach in college, you already
Speaker 1: know what the deal is, right. Kids who are highly recruited,
Speaker 1: they try and you know, draw out the biggest number
Speaker 1: in NIL, and then after spending as short period of
Speaker 1: time at one school as possible, then they put themselves
Speaker 1: in the market. And once they get with on the market,
Speaker 1: then they try and get on the market again and
Speaker 1: again and again. It's not dissimilar from what professional athletes
Speaker 1: should do, which is be a free agent as often
Speaker 1: as possible. But that's where a collective part in agreement
Speaker 1: already has things set in place where you're not a
Speaker 1: free agent year after year after years. There's a narrative
Speaker 1: out there that this is like professional sports, and the
Speaker 1: answer is that's not true because professional sports you're not
Speaker 1: a free agent every year, and you know, depending upon
Speaker 1: the sport baseball, you don't reach any sort of free
Speaker 1: agency until year four. They make very little money throughout
Speaker 1: that that process of time, but ultimately there can be
Speaker 1: a payoff for stars. So we're in this weird time
Speaker 1: where nobody knows what anybody's actually truly making. Coaches aren't
Speaker 1: supposed to that, ministrators aren't supposed to know what the
Speaker 1: NIL would actually be paying. NIL is supposed to be
Speaker 1: for your name, image and likeness, but really mostly let's
Speaker 1: pay for play, and the numbers being thrown around are obscene,
Speaker 1: but we don't know of the reality to them at
Speaker 1: all places because many claim they got half or even
Speaker 1: a quarter of what they thought they were going to
Speaker 1: get before going to said school. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of different aspects of this out there, But the big
Speaker 1: one I want to get to is can we point
Speaker 1: out that while Miami does have Nigel Pack, there are
Speaker 1: some you know, Wong was clearly taken care of because
Speaker 1: he had an outstanding year last year, and the NIL
Speaker 1: is having on many levels a positive impact in keeping
Speaker 1: Hunter Dickinson at Michigan for example, and manymore. But the
Speaker 1: other part too, it is, hey, look, Yukon was a
Speaker 1: recruited team. They're not going out spending in nil. San
Speaker 1: Diego State had transfers, but it's they're not transfers based
Speaker 1: upon nil and going for some big check. He got
Speaker 1: many guys who they just wanted to step up a
Speaker 1: level and maybe they aren't at the highest level on
Speaker 1: their own before they got to San Diego State, but
Speaker 1: with the tenacity they play, with playing to their strengths,
Speaker 1: the depths and the numbers, they're able to finally get
Speaker 1: breakthrough and get to a final four. I would say
Speaker 1: that the reason San Diego State hasn't achieved this in
Speaker 1: the NCAA term previously is they just haven't had that
Speaker 1: good a player. And you say, well, there's Kawhi letter.
Speaker 1: Outside of Kawai, I love Zabra things, he's awesome, but
Speaker 1: there's a reason he was in the NBA, right. So
Speaker 1: if and I mean, what's the difference thing Gonzaga this
Speaker 1: year and the two previous Gonzaga years. You had a
Speaker 1: pro you had a dude, Santa State has been this good,
Speaker 1: if not even better, defensively for years. What's the difference
Speaker 1: this year, Well, they don't really have a pro. But
Speaker 1: also the teams they went against outside Alabama was just
Speaker 1: too young and shot the ball poorly. You know, they're
Speaker 1: just stupacating defensively. It's not like Creighton has pros that
Speaker 1: are just putting the ball on the deck and making
Speaker 1: you one on one. They're able to win a game.
Speaker 1: But the bigger thing is that between Yukon and Santyu,
Speaker 1: Stay and Fdu okay, these are not high level buy
Speaker 1: a team and I and IL guys, And it's very important.
Speaker 1: The sugar media is going to buy into the Hey,
Speaker 1: look what Miami's doing. This is what everybody's doing. The
Speaker 1: reality is that's not what's been done. Now again, I'm
Speaker 1: not a dinosaur. It's not that I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on in the market, at the transfer market. How
Speaker 1: times are changed. I'm just telling you the reality is
Speaker 1: that that thing putting together a team by buying a
Speaker 1: player from another team is a lot harder, clearly than
Speaker 1: anyone could conceptualize before it started happening. All right, let's
Speaker 1: let's get you to my Ken just finished up his
Speaker 1: career at Penn state. He joined me from his apartment
Speaker 1: and take a listen to his tale. Um, it looks
Speaker 1: like you're an apartment. You're not in a dorm, are you? No,
Speaker 1: I'm in an apartment. Okay, I just just just check in. UM,
Speaker 1: you're a Bellevue kid, right, Like? What was your what
Speaker 1: was high school? A you like to? Yeah? So I played? Um,
Speaker 1: I went to Bellvie High School. UM, I had some
Speaker 1: opportunities to go play in the Metro League. Bring your
Speaker 1: Beach wanted me to come play with him. I decided
Speaker 1: to stick it out all four years of Bellevue and
Speaker 1: then AU. I played for FOH Friends of Hoop all
Speaker 1: growing up and US and Rotari where the two top
Speaker 1: teams in the area for a long long time and
Speaker 1: still are you know? Rotary tried to get me to
Speaker 1: come play UYBL but I just stayed true with FOH
Speaker 1: and had a great experience with both programs. Honestly, So
Speaker 1: your friend your Friends of Hoop program? Who was on
Speaker 1: your team? Uh, Corey Kispers the name that everybody's gonna know.
Speaker 1: We had other players too. Michael Carter ended up going
Speaker 1: to UM University Washington. Before he bounced around a little bit.
Speaker 1: We had other guys go Division two. We had a
Speaker 1: we had a really good team, but we had a
Speaker 1: lot of us had played together all of high school
Speaker 1: in au so that's why we had the success that
Speaker 1: we did. My seventeen year year you um, so, so
Speaker 1: your senior year, how good were you get in high school? Are?
Speaker 1: My best high school team was my junior year. We
Speaker 1: had the MVP of our league on our team, Ganther,
Speaker 1: he went to the Army m California, ended up going
Speaker 1: to Boston University, and then Zach Moore played at Seattle.
Speaker 1: You in a couple other schools, and then Treffe went
Speaker 1: to Seattle Pacivic as well. Do a good Division two.
Speaker 1: So our starting five was we were as good as
Speaker 1: anybody in the state. UM. We ended up playing Rainier
Speaker 1: Beach and the district championship when I had it was
Speaker 1: de Johnson, Murray, Idy Smith, Kevin Porter, Shadiabas. They were
Speaker 1: really good. UM lost to them in our district championship,
Speaker 1: and just how the wis set up, we ended up
Speaker 1: playing them in the first round of the state tournament
Speaker 1: and lost again. So that was our probably our best
Speaker 1: high school team. So what was your what was your
Speaker 1: recruitment like recruitment was it was pretty slow until my
Speaker 1: seventeen you summer Camera Dollar in Seattle U. They were
Speaker 1: kind of on me the whole time since I was
Speaker 1: a freshman. I don't know if Cam ever like gave
Speaker 1: me a formal offer, but it was always kind of like, hey,
Speaker 1: come play for me. But in once that seventeen you
Speaker 1: year hit, we ended up playing in all those tournaments
Speaker 1: in July and we went down to Anaheim, made it
Speaker 1: all the way to the championship game. We beat we
Speaker 1: were the last team to beat the ball Brothers All
Speaker 1: High School. We beat Access from Zacoma, Washington, who had
Speaker 1: Corey Gloughlin and Malachai Flynn, and lost to Cali Supreme.
Speaker 1: But in those in that tournament, I was just I mean,
Speaker 1: I was going crazy. I was hitting threes, dropping dimes,
Speaker 1: I was dunking on people, and like at that point,
Speaker 1: when the scouts started to see me like really play
Speaker 1: like that, they got excited and that's when a bunch
Speaker 1: of my offers began to come in. So why did
Speaker 1: you choose Denver? Uh? Well, I started that. I started
Speaker 1: UC Davis in other Okay, Okay, it's your first Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's right, Okay, so I got I got the
Speaker 1: order confused. So so okay, so jim lest what what
Speaker 1: about jim Less? And UC Davis was like, I want
Speaker 1: to go there? Yeah. So it was just unique opportunity
Speaker 1: the they had. They had been putting a really good
Speaker 1: program together before I got there. Um, they had won
Speaker 1: the regular season in the Big West and had been
Speaker 1: real competitive, and just the makeup of the team. We
Speaker 1: had a lot of experience. We had a fifth year
Speaker 1: point Gerard, we had a six year big guy, really
Speaker 1: good junior college players, UM, and some people that had
Speaker 1: just been in the program, and it was just the fit,
Speaker 1: the way they played UM and just what my role
Speaker 1: was going to be within that. I just I knew
Speaker 1: we were gonna have a special team. And so I
Speaker 1: ended up committing before my senior year high school started.
Speaker 1: I committed early and you know, went to Davis. Had
Speaker 1: a great year. They're awesome, awesome school. Basketball wise, we
Speaker 1: were finished second in the conference. We lost to UC
Speaker 1: Irvine on the last day of the regular season by
Speaker 1: thirty at their place. Came back the next week beat
Speaker 1: Fullerton in the semi finals of our conference tournament, and
Speaker 1: then beat Irvine to go to the dance and from
Speaker 1: there we played played the play in Dayton, played North
Speaker 1: Carolina Central took care of that one, and then got
Speaker 1: matched up with Kansas and Tulsa played Josh Jackson, Spee, mccailloch,
Speaker 1: Frank Mason, DeVante Graham. They had a great team. So
Speaker 1: that was that was quite an experience my first year.
Speaker 1: What what was your role like on the team? H
Speaker 1: so early on, you know, roles kind of get determined
Speaker 1: as the year goes on. Early on in the year,
Speaker 1: I was playing really well, Like first ten twelve games
Speaker 1: of the season, I was averaging between ten and twelve points,
Speaker 1: about five or evounds fifty shooting. So I played really
Speaker 1: well to start the season. And then as it went on,
Speaker 1: coach Less leaned on the older guys. I was still
Speaker 1: in the rotation, playing but not quite as much. And
Speaker 1: you know, Connor groove and played well. So I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was in that position and I was playing.
Speaker 1: I was the only guy on our team playing as
Speaker 1: a freshman, and you know I was. I was excited
Speaker 1: for what was to come. So what I leave so
Speaker 1: got into it. Um, you know, go finish up at
Speaker 1: the tournament. All is good, all is happy. We have
Speaker 1: our end of season meetings, and like you know, when
Speaker 1: of the meeting, head held high, like just excited for
Speaker 1: what was to come, and we began talking about things,
Speaker 1: and I don't know what made the meeting go south,
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden, Coach was just saying some
Speaker 1: things to me that I didn't agree with, and the
Speaker 1: meeting ended with him saying he'd be happy for me
Speaker 1: to enter the portal. So that went on in that meeting.
Speaker 1: I still don't really know what triggered all that. However,
Speaker 1: you know, I had some time to reflect and think
Speaker 1: about it before I entered the portal, and Coach Less
Speaker 1: wouldn't even give me a conversation after that meeting, So
Speaker 1: I felt like that was where I stood with him,
Speaker 1: that you know, trying to pursue something else probably would
Speaker 1: better suit me. And so ended up entering the transfer
Speaker 1: portal and then transferred down to uh Cow Baptist played
Speaker 1: for coach Roy. So do you think he ran you off?
Speaker 1: Like he had somebody else in mind for your scholarship?
Speaker 1: And that's that's that's why Ilson and went went from
Speaker 1: you playing to now ask telling you to go into portal.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't, I don't I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was that. I don't know if just
Speaker 1: tensions were high, or if pride was a thing or
Speaker 1: you know. Still to this day we I haven't spoke
Speaker 1: to him since that really, so, UM, I'm sure someday
Speaker 1: we will have a talk about it, but UM, at
Speaker 1: this point in time, I'm not entirely sure. Because after
Speaker 1: after my class, we had my class at the time
Speaker 1: of the highest scruity class at Davis was me and
Speaker 1: my roommate Peter Hewitt. They essentially asked us both to league.
Speaker 1: We left, and the two classes after everybody also transferred,
Speaker 1: so he lost three classes in a row. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a wild time, honestly. So what what
Speaker 1: what was the portal like your first portal experience? What
Speaker 1: was that like? My first portal experience? It was, you know,
Speaker 1: it was good. I had some I had some good opportunities.
Speaker 1: It was you know, it was nice. I had some
Speaker 1: really good tape together as a freshman playing on an
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament team. So I had some programs that we're interested.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. It wasn't Power five interests, but they were
Speaker 1: good teams. Um, and I ended up heading down to
Speaker 1: cal Baptist because I just kind of knew the situation
Speaker 1: the year that I transferred down there. Um, I knew
Speaker 1: I was gonna probably end up red shirting, and then
Speaker 1: I was gonna be you know, playing significant minutes in
Speaker 1: their first year at Division one, and it was exciting.
Speaker 1: You know, it was brand new arena going into the whack,
Speaker 1: and you know I was familiar with coaching staff, so
Speaker 1: I ended up heading down there. What was what was
Speaker 1: he like as opposed to coach less? Right, Like, what
Speaker 1: was the difference in styles in terms of coaching and approach? Um?
Speaker 1: So I would say coach less like coach less phenomenal
Speaker 1: X andos Like X and os, if you need to
Speaker 1: play for a bucket, he's gonna draw something up and
Speaker 1: you're gonna get something great. Um. Croix is a lot
Speaker 1: more of a motivator, Like you're gonna want to run
Speaker 1: through a brick wall for him. But you know XS
Speaker 1: and os and that type of thing, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: more delegated to UH staff. Um. You know if they're
Speaker 1: both very competitive, very like fierce competitors, so like you
Speaker 1: don't want to be on either of their bad sides.
Speaker 1: But when you're on their good sides. It's a pretty
Speaker 1: good thing. So you what was it year like when
Speaker 1: you sat? Uh, you're like when I say, I was like,
Speaker 1: it was pretty tumultuous. Actually. So I got down there
Speaker 1: and I had been having a little bit of trouble
Speaker 1: with my ankle. Had an ankle sprain during the season
Speaker 1: at Davis, and it kind of it nagged me, but
Speaker 1: it eventually got better. And then when I went down,
Speaker 1: right before I was going down to CBU, I had
Speaker 1: just slightly tweaked it again. And when we got into
Speaker 1: training camp and everything working out, I just I realized
Speaker 1: that something was wrong, and so we began to get
Speaker 1: some get some tests done and just see what was
Speaker 1: going on with it. And I had a bunch of
Speaker 1: bone spurring and my ankle joint. So I ended up
Speaker 1: having a surgery with a doctor I would say got
Speaker 1: into it too fast. I probably should have gotten to
Speaker 1: somebody else who had a clear direction with what they
Speaker 1: were going to do with the surgery, but it was local.
Speaker 1: Ended up having that surgery rehab my way all the
Speaker 1: way back into the spring, and unfortunately my foot was
Speaker 1: still bad. Um they hadn't taken care of what they
Speaker 1: needed to take care of so I was in line
Speaker 1: for another operation, which I got done that spring in April. Um.
Speaker 1: So that was you're, yeah, you're just kind of rehabbing
Speaker 1: the whole year and not playing right, so what do
Speaker 1: you do with your time? Yeah, so I was, well,
Speaker 1: I was, you know, like coach Croy, he's not one
Speaker 1: of those coaches where he's like, hey, we're gonna practice,
Speaker 1: you go rehab. He's like, hey, we had practice, you're
Speaker 1: gonna come watch practice. So watched every single practice, every
Speaker 1: every single day, rehab before and after. So my days
Speaker 1: were long days. But that group of that group of
Speaker 1: kids that we had on that team, the older guy,
Speaker 1: it was a good group. It was a really good
Speaker 1: team to be a part of because they went all
Speaker 1: the way to the Elite eight for Division two. So
Speaker 1: it was good to be a part of that winning culture. Um.
Speaker 1: It was unfortunate that I was dealing with my foot,
Speaker 1: um because you know, in your retro year, you're just
Speaker 1: trying to get better and get in great shape and
Speaker 1: do all those things. And I was, you know, back
Speaker 1: and forth due to the injury troubles. So you so
Speaker 1: you come back for your second year, right, you get
Speaker 1: a chance to play right, yeah, or your foot or
Speaker 1: is your foot still messed up? Well, my foot, Well
Speaker 1: that's the craziest part about it, was my foot was
Speaker 1: still messed up. But I played that entire year. Um,
Speaker 1: we got back. So we got got out there in
Speaker 1: the summer, trained all summer. It was getting in great shape.
Speaker 1: Wasn't doing a lot of like team on the court
Speaker 1: stuff because I was still already having um and you know,
Speaker 1: eventually eventually got back, had a great fall training session,
Speaker 1: gotten some of the best shape I've been in my life.
Speaker 1: I was playing playing the three four, and I was
Speaker 1: you know, I was set to set to have a
Speaker 1: good year. And I did have a good year there,
Speaker 1: but my foot nagged me the whole time, like I
Speaker 1: can just tell something still wrong with it. You know,
Speaker 1: we had we had a great, great year that first
Speaker 1: year at CBU. I think still to this day we
Speaker 1: have the best first year record of a incoming Division
Speaker 1: One team. I think we're like sixteen and fifteen. But
Speaker 1: I mean we came in and we battled. We played
Speaker 1: New Mexico State our first game in conference at home,
Speaker 1: and we beat them, and they didn't lose a game
Speaker 1: the rest of the season. You know, we had some
Speaker 1: had some good wins like that, and went through some
Speaker 1: growing pains as a team, because that transition front division
Speaker 1: to Division one is a real thing, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But all in all, all in all, was a good year.
Speaker 1: We were eligible for postseason tournament, all that type of deal.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately I was still dealing with my ankle during
Speaker 1: that time. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
Speaker 1: lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Speaker 1: Fox sports Radio dot com and within the iHeart Radio
Speaker 1: app search f SR to listen live. OK, so then
Speaker 1: you go come back for nineteen twenty and what happens? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So nineteen twenty. So in the so in the spring,
Speaker 1: in the spring of that year, after I had played
Speaker 1: that season at Kyle Baptist, the staff kind of they
Speaker 1: knew that my foot was still messed up, and so
Speaker 1: did I. And I mean ultimately, just like everything I
Speaker 1: had gone through there, I it kind of from both parties,
Speaker 1: we decided that like it was best for me to
Speaker 1: be with the team the next year. UM A lot
Speaker 1: of stuff that went into that. I was welcome back,
Speaker 1: but it was it was no longer a work environment
Speaker 1: for me that was going to be conducive for my
Speaker 1: basketball career, my health, and so I ended up um
Speaker 1: stepped away from the team, got my got my surgery
Speaker 1: on the calendar to finally fix my ankle um. That
Speaker 1: wasn't until September, so I got to get home. I
Speaker 1: was home during the summer, taking junior college classes, just training,
Speaker 1: had my surgery in September, went back down to cal
Speaker 1: Baptist just as a student in the fall, and I
Speaker 1: graduated in December. So so you weren't even part of
Speaker 1: the team. So what what happened? You're growing up now,
Speaker 1: like Jim, last thing you thought it was good, then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it went back like were you
Speaker 1: super defensive? Were you defiant? You know? Like what what
Speaker 1: what I was? You know, I was, I was young
Speaker 1: at the time, Like but Croy just in the way
Speaker 1: that he was doing things then and I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's still acting that way now, but it was
Speaker 1: his way of the highway a lot of stuff, And
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like the two prior surgeries that
Speaker 1: I had had, I didn't have too much say and
Speaker 1: who I was going to see for my doctor, and
Speaker 1: it just wasn't It was back and forth like determining
Speaker 1: whether or not they wanted me back. One day, they
Speaker 1: were like, God, you had such a great year for us.
Speaker 1: You're such a big part of this team. We're so
Speaker 1: excited to have you back. And the next day it
Speaker 1: was like, well, you need to do this and that
Speaker 1: and that and this, and I'm like, it was so
Speaker 1: bipolar and it was just unhealthy. You never knew what
Speaker 1: you were gonna what you were gonna expect out of it,
Speaker 1: and what you were gonna get from them on any
Speaker 1: given day. And I just knew for me, the best
Speaker 1: thing for my basketball career in my life was just
Speaker 1: to finally fix this injury because it was holding me
Speaker 1: back from what I really needed to be doing. And
Speaker 1: I thought, in order to do that, getting the surgery
Speaker 1: done on my own terms and rehabbing on my own
Speaker 1: terms was going to be the best outlet for me.
Speaker 1: And so I basically just basically just chose myself, bet
Speaker 1: on myself, and you know, separated myself from a shirt
Speaker 1: thing to something that was very much up in the air.
Speaker 1: And you know, during that during that year, it was difficult,
Speaker 1: you know, third surgery, having to come back, my rehab.
Speaker 1: I mean it was from I damn me rehab. The
Speaker 1: whole year to get back healthy. It was pretty much
Speaker 1: from September when I had the surgery till August right
Speaker 1: before I reported out to the University of Portland. But
Speaker 1: it was a big year, right, So you with all
Speaker 1: these things you're doing right now, you're now you're by yourself.
Speaker 1: What was it like at cal Baptist when you have
Speaker 1: you're not part of a team. You're still like on scholarship,
Speaker 1: but you're not on the team. It was it was different.
Speaker 1: It was different, um, you know, being a part of
Speaker 1: the team in college, that's what you were used to. UM.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like, it was different. I
Speaker 1: would say something it could be uncomfortable, but my teammates
Speaker 1: had so much love for me that it wasn't in
Speaker 1: that aspect um, did you did you live withol? No.
Speaker 1: I lived in my own space, lived in my own space,
Speaker 1: and so I mean from a school from a school standpoint,
Speaker 1: it was great because for the first time in my
Speaker 1: whole college career, I could really just lock in on school, right,
Speaker 1: So that piece was easy. Um. Having the free time
Speaker 1: was nice because you know how demanding individual on schedule is,
Speaker 1: you know, So that was another piece that a lot
Speaker 1: of that a lot of that gave me a lot
Speaker 1: of perspective. And you know, even once I graduated and
Speaker 1: went home, Um, I was working. I was driving. Not
Speaker 1: only was I rehabbing, working on my game, doing all
Speaker 1: these things. I was driving Uber because my uh my
Speaker 1: mom was unemployed at the time, so I was helping
Speaker 1: I was helping us out driving Uber, doing that type
Speaker 1: of thing. So I'll kind of we'll kind of cut
Speaker 1: what'll kind of carver you an Uber driver in I
Speaker 1: was driving a Chrysler, driving in Chrysler. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: mean it was cool. It was like I had all
Speaker 1: this college stuff, graduated and you know, stepped into the
Speaker 1: real world for a second. So my eyes opened up
Speaker 1: to a lot of things before the second phase of
Speaker 1: my college career. What what was that? What was give
Speaker 1: me give me an Uber, give me an Uber story? Story?
Speaker 1: You driving Uber and them? What's the story? Man? It
Speaker 1: was great. It was great, Like it was just it's
Speaker 1: just fun. I'm a people person, so you're having all
Speaker 1: types of people in your car all the time. Some
Speaker 1: people want to talk, some people don't. And this is
Speaker 1: during COVID too, so like the mask thing was crazy.
Speaker 1: People were all bundled up like they didn't really want
Speaker 1: any Some people didn't want a piec of you. Other
Speaker 1: people were like, oh my god, I get to talk
Speaker 1: to somebody. Like they loved it, you know. Um, but
Speaker 1: I mean really all the all the fun stories are
Speaker 1: just like you know, you go like in Seattle, you
Speaker 1: go pick people up in Capitol Hill and they're like
Speaker 1: they're drunk out their minds and you're trying to They
Speaker 1: got like six people trying to pile in your car,
Speaker 1: and I'm like I'm like whatever, like y'all, y'all good,
Speaker 1: Like let's go. We're playing music, like we're just you know,
Speaker 1: having a good time with people. So did anybody ask?
Speaker 1: And they asked like what what do you do? Like
Speaker 1: what do you do? Like I'm a basketball player? Like
Speaker 1: why are you driving over? Yeah, because like I had,
Speaker 1: I had a picture of me and my jersey is
Speaker 1: my uber pictures. So they were like they're like what
Speaker 1: are you doing driving uber? Like you don't you play basketball?
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, like yeah, man, like I
Speaker 1: just you know, I just finished up and I gave
Speaker 1: my story like finished up my undergrad I'm about a
Speaker 1: grad transfer, I'm rehabbing, doing all this stuff, and you know,
Speaker 1: right now, I'm just driving uber making some money. So crazy. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: so how did you how did you did you go
Speaker 1: in the portal to go to Portland? How did you
Speaker 1: come to kind of go to Portland? Yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 1: I went, I went in the portal. I went in
Speaker 1: the portal. So I went in the portal that past spring,
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen spring, I went in the portal. But I
Speaker 1: knew that my foot was bad. I knew that I
Speaker 1: needed to have my surgery. I knew all that stuff. So,
Speaker 1: like schools had reached out to me initially, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be the best option for me to transfer
Speaker 1: and try to finish my undergrad um. So right when
Speaker 1: I when I finished up at CVUM, that's really when
Speaker 1: my recruiting picked up. And I think I think that
Speaker 1: COVID helped me as well, because all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it was like high school seasons got short, you know,
Speaker 1: the college season got cut off. And I had this
Speaker 1: all this film from this full season from before. So
Speaker 1: by the time Marsh rolled around, I'm probably talking to
Speaker 1: thirty programs and like it was, you know, everything from
Speaker 1: Power five to the lowest major you could think of,
Speaker 1: right and it was just it was crazy. But Portland,
Speaker 1: they they began to get real serious about me in
Speaker 1: like April May, and I liked the I liked the
Speaker 1: thought of playing close to home. Um. I always thought
Speaker 1: the WCC would be a good conference for me, and
Speaker 1: it was. And this is during this was during this
Speaker 1: was during COVID, right, yeah, but you know that was
Speaker 1: that was the tricky part. I had all these you know,
Speaker 1: I had had all these schools talking to me. I
Speaker 1: wasn't real familiar with any of them except Portland. I
Speaker 1: had been on their campus in high school, you know,
Speaker 1: like I had a I had a feel and just
Speaker 1: seeing talking to the coaches and stuff, I knew that
Speaker 1: it would be a good um place for me to be.
Speaker 1: And so I ended up going there. You know, no
Speaker 1: business enough, a lot of okay, so so but you
Speaker 1: you go there. But what were you doing during COVID,
Speaker 1: because that year where years out during COVID, I was.
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to have a great, great, great
Speaker 1: like rehab team working with me. UM one of my
Speaker 1: family friends since I was young. They run a they
Speaker 1: run a rehab facility and UH in Belgaria, in Mercer Island,
Speaker 1: and so I got linked up with them, and I
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough that you know, cal Baptists had paid
Speaker 1: for my surgery and paid they've been paying for my
Speaker 1: my visits to the rehabilitation so that whole time I'm
Speaker 1: in there two three times a week, getting my strength back,
Speaker 1: getting my like, getting back into running, doing all these things.
Speaker 1: And initially I had time to you know, go to
Speaker 1: my gym at home, work with some of my trainers,
Speaker 1: just start to get some of my skill work back in.
Speaker 1: But once COVID hit, I mean, we had to figure
Speaker 1: it out, like we just had to figure it out.
Speaker 1: So I had a couple of my buddies from you
Speaker 1: dubbed Noah new Bauer ORNs Carter. We would go, I mean,
Speaker 1: we'd go to any park we could, every single day
Speaker 1: and we were just we were just playing ball. Didn't matter.
Speaker 1: Were they open the courts that we were at. Yes,
Speaker 1: So like nas and them where they lived, they had
Speaker 1: a court right out back from their house, so we'd
Speaker 1: go play there. There was a court at the middle
Speaker 1: school down from my house, Chinook Middle School where I
Speaker 1: went to middle school, covered area, double rims, whatever. But
Speaker 1: we just we got working and so we just we
Speaker 1: just pulled together as many players as we could from
Speaker 1: the area. As this progression went on, and like we
Speaker 1: were playing threes and we were playing fours, we were
Speaker 1: playing ones, we were getting shots up and it was
Speaker 1: like it was competitive. And then Towards like towards May
Speaker 1: started working with this pro group in Seattle too that
Speaker 1: I worked with, and we ended up getting gym space
Speaker 1: at this elementary and this backdoor gym, and I mean
Speaker 1: we were just we just found our way to get
Speaker 1: our working, like any which way we could, didn't matter
Speaker 1: what the ball was, didn't matter what the court was,
Speaker 1: none of that. We were just trying to get better. Okay.
Speaker 1: So then what was but the city of Portland, like
Speaker 1: again COVID and then all the riots, Like what was that?
Speaker 1: Like yeah yeah, So so right when we got out there, uh,
Speaker 1: they were like they were like, yeah, it's probably best
Speaker 1: if you stay away from downtown. And I'm thinking, like okay,
Speaker 1: like it like it's bad whatever, but you know, because
Speaker 1: Seattle was bad at the time too, But I was like,
Speaker 1: there's no way it could be that bad. And then
Speaker 1: one night we went down there. We were just picking
Speaker 1: up some food and like it was like Gotham City,
Speaker 1: Like it was there was so many, so many people
Speaker 1: in ten so many people just like streaking walking down
Speaker 1: the street. Like couldn't even couldn't even fathom because growing
Speaker 1: up in the Seattle area, you're down in Portland playing
Speaker 1: and tournaments all the time. You're used to that city
Speaker 1: being so nice, and to see that it was just crazy.
Speaker 1: So we ended up like we go down there to
Speaker 1: get food sometimes, but I mean for the most part,
Speaker 1: we just stayed around campus for most of that year. Honestly,
Speaker 1: did you have did you have in person classes? No?
Speaker 1: In person classes? Everything was online. Um so I began
Speaker 1: began my MBA online and they were great classes. Actually,
Speaker 1: the teachers did a really good job of getting that
Speaker 1: all together because there was That was a really good
Speaker 1: year of learning for me on that side of it.
Speaker 1: Did you did you ever attend a class on campus
Speaker 1: at the University of Portland? No, sir, no one. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: All these you went to five schools you actually never
Speaker 1: went to. Okay, what was what was practice like for
Speaker 1: with all the protocols that year? Because because I did,
Speaker 1: I did. I did a WCC game at Lola Merrimut
Speaker 1: that year and they tested me. I had descended my
Speaker 1: test stuff. But then right before I got into the
Speaker 1: gym they tested me, so and I couldn't park anywhere
Speaker 1: near the gym, so I was like all the way
Speaker 1: over to So. Like I normally get to the game
Speaker 1: like hour and a half before whatever, got into traffic
Speaker 1: little late. It was like an hour before the game.
Speaker 1: So then I got to walk like thirty twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: Then they got tested then like waiting outside, They're like
Speaker 1: waiting to come get me. I mean, it was crazy.
Speaker 1: What was it like for you? So for me, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: Rogan got a campus tested And initially all we could
Speaker 1: do was two players at a hoop with one coach,
Speaker 1: so me and our other big Diabata. We were just
Speaker 1: getting one on one working pretty much wearing wearing a
Speaker 1: mask whatever. And then eventually it progressed from that. We could,
Speaker 1: you know, practice as a team, but not really practice.
Speaker 1: It was like you could do five on over. That
Speaker 1: was the max you could do. And that year in
Speaker 1: Portland US in Portland State were the last two teams
Speaker 1: that weren't practicing, like the I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was a governor or the mayor, but decided that it
Speaker 1: was the mayor. They decided that we just couldn't practice basketball,
Speaker 1: and so we didn't have a We didn't have a
Speaker 1: real official practice until it was like two weeks or
Speaker 1: ten days before our first game. Like it was nuts.
Speaker 1: So we're just we our first official official practice where
Speaker 1: we could get after was ten days or two weeks
Speaker 1: before our first game. And then did you just have
Speaker 1: to wear masks or anything or did you just go
Speaker 1: regular practice? Yeah? Yeah, we had to. I think I
Speaker 1: think at that point we're still wearing masks. I don't
Speaker 1: know when that stopped, because we were wearing them for
Speaker 1: the longest working out and that is so uncomfortable. What
Speaker 1: what was okay? So what was Terry porterlay? Terry Porter
Speaker 1: is one of the best human beings ever been around, great, great,
Speaker 1: great human being? Like what what made him since a
Speaker 1: great human He just like he's just so like so charismatic,
Speaker 1: like really loves his guys and like he cares about
Speaker 1: you more than hoops. Um. You know, he has all
Speaker 1: that experience being in in the NBA, just sitting around him,
Speaker 1: listening to all his stories and everything that all his
Speaker 1: knowledge on the game, Like I soaked it up like
Speaker 1: a sponge. And I think I think some guys on
Speaker 1: our team. They they didn't soak up as much as
Speaker 1: I did. UM, But I love being around TP and
Speaker 1: I love playing for TP because he counted on me
Speaker 1: and I was one of his guys, and it was
Speaker 1: it was easy to play for him, um, just because
Speaker 1: of the concepts we ran and his trust that he
Speaker 1: put in his players. And I really did enjoy playing
Speaker 1: for Terry Porter. So had the year go. We started
Speaker 1: off great. We were six and two with wins over
Speaker 1: one arrivalry game against Portland State, beat a good Montana
Speaker 1: State team, and then we went to Oregon State and
Speaker 1: beat them as well early on, and so, I mean,
Speaker 1: we were real confident going into WCC play and then
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, but things went south after
Speaker 1: Christmas break. We it just it just stopped clicking. And
Speaker 1: I don't really know what it was, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was personalities, I don't know
Speaker 1: buy in. I couldn't really tell you. But we ended
Speaker 1: up losing all these games in the WCC, and right
Speaker 1: when we got into a rhythm down the stretch of
Speaker 1: the year, we went down to San Diego, were supposed
Speaker 1: to play San Diego that night, and then Santa Clair.
Speaker 1: The next day go to shoot around come back. We
Speaker 1: had flown one of our players out because he was
Speaker 1: sick at home with the flu. We get his COVID
Speaker 1: test back and it comes back positive, so they sent
Speaker 1: us home and a day later they tell us that
Speaker 1: it was a misprint on the COVID test and that
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was false. So we could
Speaker 1: have played those games. Those games would have been big
Speaker 1: for us. And then we got a tough matchup in
Speaker 1: the first round at WC WCC tournament against Santa Clara,
Speaker 1: and Jaylen Williams pretty much buried us. He's like eight
Speaker 1: for nine shooting with some free throws and had about
Speaker 1: twenty two points. And we're close, but we just what
Speaker 1: started off so well, it just never came together down
Speaker 1: the stretch of the year. So years over then what
Speaker 1: happens yep, years over going through coaching change. TP had
Speaker 1: gotten fired with a few games left and they end
Speaker 1: up bringing in Shantelegans from East from Washington, And you know,
Speaker 1: I was I've been familiar with with Shanta. He had
Speaker 1: recruited me at Eastern UM, you know, so I was
Speaker 1: I was excited, right, I was excited about the opportunity,
Speaker 1: and we end up meeting as a team on a
Speaker 1: zoom and you know, like introductory you think your coach
Speaker 1: is gonna speak for you know, speak for a good
Speaker 1: amount of time. Chante comes into the meeting and goes, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: don't really know shit about you guys. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: watched a couple of games here and there, but you know,
Speaker 1: we'll have individual meetings with you guys and we'll just
Speaker 1: figure this out. Like and we were like, okay, like
Speaker 1: you're a new coach, it's all you gotta say, like,
Speaker 1: we're like, what is going on? And so the meeting
Speaker 1: was about eight minutes long. About it was an hour,
Speaker 1: and he goes he ended the meeting saying, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get on the phone with each
Speaker 1: of you by the end of the night, just to
Speaker 1: circle back. So you know, all of a sudden, days
Speaker 1: are going by and we're like, okay, where's this call
Speaker 1: from coach Legans. He said he was gonna call us,
Speaker 1: like what's going on? And so one by one he
Speaker 1: basically just cut everybody on the team, and some people
Speaker 1: he was you know, nicer about it too. I think
Speaker 1: those were some of the guys that they were already
Speaker 1: probably intending on entering the portal and transferring. But other
Speaker 1: guys like myself and our point guard I met, who
Speaker 1: averaged like eighteen a game the year before. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was just such a dickhead to us, like he
Speaker 1: was he was telling us how bad a players we were.
Speaker 1: He was telling us how everybody he's bringing in better
Speaker 1: than like the way, like how far he took it
Speaker 1: with us, Like I just I couldn't even believe that,
Speaker 1: Like the athletic director was letting this stuff go on
Speaker 1: because the professionalism, the professionalism of hiring a candidate like that,
Speaker 1: like you gotta come in and you can't come in,
Speaker 1: and you know, so how did he how did how
Speaker 1: did he cutch you? Specifically? So he finally called me,
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like out with my girlfriend
Speaker 1: at the time, and he just beat around the bus
Speaker 1: for like fifteen minutes. I was like, you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm excited to play it for you, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and you know, he was just he didn't say it
Speaker 1: for a while, and then finally he's like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: don't need you on this team, Like we don't think
Speaker 1: you're good enough. We you know, you won't play like
Speaker 1: there's no point and just like the way he did it,
Speaker 1: it just wasn't right. What's what's what's the right way?
Speaker 1: The right way to do it is just to be like,
Speaker 1: just to be straight up with the kids, Like if
Speaker 1: you're gonna come in and act a program and start new,
Speaker 1: if like you come in in that first meeting and
Speaker 1: you tell like you tell everybody, hey, I'm new, Like
Speaker 1: I want to bring in my people. We have the
Speaker 1: luxury doing that with the transfer portal. Now, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you guys are great kids. Um, I will help you
Speaker 1: guys find a new home, right right, That's all. That's
Speaker 1: all you want to hear. It's like, hey man, listen, listen.
Speaker 1: Let's all let me listen. All right, right, It's like, look,
Speaker 1: you tell me what you what level do you think
Speaker 1: you can play at. I'll do my absolute best to
Speaker 1: make sure you have a place to play that that
Speaker 1: you can continue your career. Right, that's the right way
Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah, exactly, because at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, it's it's a business just like anything else.
Speaker 1: And you know, moves like that are understandable if you're
Speaker 1: able to just communicate properly. Um, So now you're back
Speaker 1: in the portal, back in the port Okay, but do
Speaker 1: you know, do you know how many years you have?
Speaker 1: Like I don't. I mean I thought I knew for
Speaker 1: sure I had one. I knew for sure I had one.
Speaker 1: But I had thought that that COVID year was potentially
Speaker 1: an opportunity. But at this point I was just taking
Speaker 1: it a year at a time. And so recruiting process goes,
Speaker 1: going through the recruiting process again, I'm like, God, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this anymore. Like um, but I
Speaker 1: ended up, you know, getting a call from coach Dunson
Speaker 1: at Denver. Coach Wolvern had come in. Dunson was his
Speaker 1: first assistant, he was had assistant and he's kind of
Speaker 1: hit it off on our first phone call, like good people.
Speaker 1: And I knew how prestigious academically Denver was and that
Speaker 1: was a big piece for me as well. And you know,
Speaker 1: during this process, I was just like, you know, if
Speaker 1: I can go somewhere work, I'm gonna have a great
Speaker 1: opportunity to play and I can get another degree, Like
Speaker 1: it's gonna be great. And so ended up, you know,
Speaker 1: choosing to go to Denver played for coach Wolburn and
Speaker 1: m pursuing other masters. So yeah, twos okay, so I'll
Speaker 1: give you the whole rundown. When it's all said and
Speaker 1: done for me, I will have my undergraduate degree in
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship from California Baptist. I will have I'm already completed
Speaker 1: with my Masters in Real Estate and the Built Environment
Speaker 1: from the University of Denver. Okay, I and I'm currently
Speaker 1: to be completed, which will all be completed by June.
Speaker 1: I will have my MBA with Specification in Entrepreneurship and
Speaker 1: Innovation Management from the University of Portland and a graduate
Speaker 1: Certificate Business Sustainability Strategy from Penn State. Damn um. No
Speaker 1: doctorate though, let's kind of a letdown. No doctorate. I
Speaker 1: thought you'd bring home a doctor by now. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: maybe something maybe something okay. So so so Denver's all good? Right?
Speaker 1: How was your tea? How was your team? That was
Speaker 1: the first year? How was your team? Yeah? So, I
Speaker 1: mean it was a complete rebuild in that program. The
Speaker 1: year before we got there, they only won they won
Speaker 1: a game or two, like it was like bottom of
Speaker 1: the bottom of the bottom. And so we had we
Speaker 1: had a lot of good players come in. You know,
Speaker 1: we had grad transfers myself, kJ Hunt, Paydon Moore, and
Speaker 1: then we had we had a great freshman class and
Speaker 1: there was some in between that you know filled it
Speaker 1: in nicely for us. And it was a good year.
Speaker 1: It was a good year. Like individually, I had a
Speaker 1: good year for the program. We furthered the program. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, there was a lot of players on that
Speaker 1: team that got to shine that hadn't had as much
Speaker 1: shine previously in their careers, and we from our expectations
Speaker 1: of our team, I think we underachieved. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, the step forward that we took that program
Speaker 1: was huge and it spoke volumes about everybody involved. So
Speaker 1: it was it was a good year out there, and
Speaker 1: I enjoyed just being in the city of Denver. Like Denver,
Speaker 1: We'll always have a special place in my heart. So, um,
Speaker 1: so you get done at Denver the seasons over, did
Speaker 1: you know you had another year? I did not. I
Speaker 1: At that point, I was like, all right, I'm anna
Speaker 1: hire an agent. I'm gonna go overseas. That's you know,
Speaker 1: I'm ready. And I was ready. I was ready to
Speaker 1: go play professionally. But I started to think more about it,
Speaker 1: and I went home. I was kind of traveling about.
Speaker 1: I went home and I just started kind of talking
Speaker 1: about people. They're like, hey, man, like like you're good
Speaker 1: enough to go Power five, Like you should. You should
Speaker 1: put your name in the portal and just see what's
Speaker 1: to come, Like why not? And I was just kind
Speaker 1: of thinking, like, I mean, yeah, it doesn't hurt, really
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt. I'm not really in a rush for anything.
Speaker 1: So I went back down to school. How did you
Speaker 1: know you had another year? That's the question. So when
Speaker 1: I went so that was my firstest. Well that's what
Speaker 1: I was getting too. When I first got back down
Speaker 1: to school. I went to Compliance and we started talking
Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, I was out two years
Speaker 1: with injury and I've only competed in four seasons, but
Speaker 1: with the COVID landscape that's going on, I should have
Speaker 1: that fifth season to compete. And she was like, she
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you're gonna have to put in an
Speaker 1: appeal and I'm not sure, like it's one hundred one
Speaker 1: hundred percent, but your argument seems to be very valid
Speaker 1: with all your all your backings and so kind of
Speaker 1: when I heard that, I was like, all right, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put my name in the portal. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: same day and compliance got my papers and went to
Speaker 1: went to coach Woolvern, had a good conversation with him.
Speaker 1: They had moved on to the younger kids anyways, they
Speaker 1: didn't ask for any of us older guys to come back.
Speaker 1: So we were just like, you know, it's what it is.
Speaker 1: They're going with young kids like cool. So put my
Speaker 1: name in the portal, and man, I was out. I
Speaker 1: was out just enjoying. I was working out. I was
Speaker 1: down in southern California. I went to Coachella. I was
Speaker 1: out there training, I was hanging out with friends. I
Speaker 1: went up to Portland, saw my other buddies graduate, you know,
Speaker 1: got back home, got some more working and then eventually
Speaker 1: I was back in Denver, and you know, I had
Speaker 1: a bunch of schools hitting my line, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: it wasn't a lot of big time schools, and so
Speaker 1: I was kind of leaning towards like, Okay, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna go overseas. I'm gonna go sign
Speaker 1: my AG and go overseas. Like and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: one day, I'm just I think me and my boy Peyton,
Speaker 1: We're just having about at lunch, like when the chilis
Speaker 1: or something, and we're driving back to school and boom,
Speaker 1: text from Mike Fairley Penn State. And he wrote this
Speaker 1: message and it said Penn Statements Basketball and I'm reading
Speaker 1: it like, nah, like no way, this isn't Penn State.
Speaker 1: Penn State, and I looked at it him, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, the time has come like so and then
Speaker 1: once once Penn State reached out, it was like back
Speaker 1: to back to back to back to back. Boom. I
Speaker 1: had Notre Dame. They were like, all right, we want
Speaker 1: to get you on campus, like let's do this. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, like all right, Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: like you know. And then two days later Illinois, and
Speaker 1: then it was NC State and it was just like
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, like these are these are
Speaker 1: programs that it's worth taking my fifth year and doing
Speaker 1: another year of college to go be a part of.
Speaker 1: And ultimately Matthew Mayer committed to Illinois and so that
Speaker 1: spot was gone. Nate Lazuski was supposed to go to
Speaker 1: the draft. Last right before the deadline of the draft,
Speaker 1: He's calling Mike Brey like, hey, I'm coming back, and
Speaker 1: so they were like, shoot, man, you're out. And NC
Speaker 1: State I just wasn't far along enough in talks with them,
Speaker 1: and I kind of had a feeling Penn State was
Speaker 1: going to be the destination for me the whole time
Speaker 1: because coach Fairly and Coachrew was raided a really nice
Speaker 1: job recruiting me, and it made a lot of sense
Speaker 1: for me to go there, not only to play the basketball,
Speaker 1: but academically the program that I'm in right now, those
Speaker 1: credits are transferring back to Portland. So it's just it
Speaker 1: all made sense. And so did you in that in
Speaker 1: that situation okay where you've been everywhere, okay, but it's
Speaker 1: a higher level than you've ever played, you didn't talk
Speaker 1: about role or is it just like hey, come play here?
Speaker 1: Did you have any sort of discussion about it? It
Speaker 1: was it was role base. It was role base. What
Speaker 1: I had, what I had been hearing, what was communicated
Speaker 1: to me was that I was gonna play twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five minutes a game and be a big part of it.
Speaker 1: Because the bigs that we have are you know, they're younger.
Speaker 1: Kevin's young, Meach is young. So they were thinking, Boom,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get a veteran wiley guy in here too,
Speaker 1: you know, be just like the other veterans on our team.
Speaker 1: Um didn't exactly end up being that way, but yeah,
Speaker 1: is what it is. So okay. So you get there,
Speaker 1: you get Depends date, and I've been Depends thing. It's
Speaker 1: an unbelievable place. It is huge, but in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere. It's kind of like Dave Sports. But even
Speaker 1: Betty Morsel in the middle midle of gigantic football stadium,
Speaker 1: gigantic campus, tiny college town. What was it like? It
Speaker 1: was cool. It was a quick turnaround for me because
Speaker 1: I graduated in Denver, like or finished on my classes
Speaker 1: in Denver June fifteenth, went home for five days and
Speaker 1: then flew out here like it was just moved out
Speaker 1: all that. And so I got out here and I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, like this is this is a
Speaker 1: cool like it has of like a special energy to it,
Speaker 1: Like it's just some of these college sounds like this.
Speaker 1: You just don't know how cool they are until you
Speaker 1: get out there, right, And So I got out here,
Speaker 1: started working out, doing all that type of stuff, and
Speaker 1: you know, you started to see the camaraderie of our
Speaker 1: group come together and we I mean we have a team.
Speaker 1: We had a team, really good players. So summer was fun.
Speaker 1: We're just working out, having a great time, building that chemistry.
Speaker 1: You know, We're out and about, like enjoying the town
Speaker 1: doing all that, and you know, I was I was happy.
Speaker 1: I was really really happy to be out there. So
Speaker 1: once that, once that summer session came and went, we
Speaker 1: were able to go home just for like a week,
Speaker 1: ten days something like that. You know, got back, I
Speaker 1: got the train, got to play in the pro am
Speaker 1: back in Seattle like I always do, and I was
Speaker 1: always a great time see family, you know. And then
Speaker 1: got back down to the fall out here, and I
Speaker 1: got kind of I got unlucky. The last two weeks
Speaker 1: of summer ball out here, I ended up straining my quad,
Speaker 1: so I was kind of I wasn't one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And then right when I got out here, I got
Speaker 1: hit with COVID for the first time, and I was
Speaker 1: sick for all of two weeks, like down so bad.
Speaker 1: So my start to the year out here was it
Speaker 1: was challenging because I was all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: was from the summer. I was in great shape, and
Speaker 1: then Boom got hit with COVID sick down in bed
Speaker 1: two weeks, so now two weeks behind on basketball, lost
Speaker 1: on my conditioning, having to fight back at school. And
Speaker 1: so the preseason, like preseason was, it was tough. It
Speaker 1: was tough. But because you know Shrewsbury stuff is, you
Speaker 1: gotta be really in tune with everything going on because
Speaker 1: it's very high level learning and it's very simple things
Speaker 1: here and there, but everything cumulative together, very high level system.
Speaker 1: And what was your first Penn State football game? Late? Amazing?
Speaker 1: I mean amazing. I wouldn't. I wouldn't necessarily, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: wasn't my first. So the first one we went to,
Speaker 1: we had like a Saturday practice and they had recruits
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and Myles Dredn We just like
Speaker 1: put on like some whatever passes and got down on
Speaker 1: the field with them. And I'm you know, growing up
Speaker 1: in Seattle, University of Washingtons are big football school. So
Speaker 1: and you probably holds sixties seventy thousand. Maybe I walked
Speaker 1: out in Beaver Stadium and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like this is a whole it's just a whole different deal.
Speaker 1: Like hundred, one hundred and ten thousand people in there
Speaker 1: screaming their heads off, like Big ten football is just
Speaker 1: a different beast, and so I was just in awe.
Speaker 1: And then you know, from there had the white out game.
Speaker 1: Whiteout game was crazy night game. And then you had
Speaker 1: the stripeout game against Ohio State and just you know,
Speaker 1: just that college talent game day, tailgate, go to the game,
Speaker 1: hang out with your people, like it was. It was
Speaker 1: a great thing to be a part of all these
Speaker 1: schools you had played at. You're on the other side
Speaker 1: of guarantee games for the first time, right, what's it
Speaker 1: like to be on the other side what's it like
Speaker 1: to be the home team when these teams, these same
Speaker 1: teams used to play at our coming in, Man, it
Speaker 1: feels good, especially when you know you got a good team.
Speaker 1: But we came out there and we were like, man,
Speaker 1: we just like and I was just touching on this,
Speaker 1: like our preseason was real. So by the time games
Speaker 1: rolled around, we could not wait to play some basketball.
Speaker 1: And you know, teams coming in here, we knew, we
Speaker 1: knew we needed to do. We were ready. Coach had
Speaker 1: us a ready early in this season, and so those games,
Speaker 1: you know, do we needed to do handle business? You
Speaker 1: guys had this. You guys had this really weird team. Right,
Speaker 1: you're all old and and those guys, you know, most
Speaker 1: of those guys are really accomplished, right, Like Jalen Pickle
Speaker 1: was Conference Player of the Year at at Siena. You
Speaker 1: guy dudes that have not not just played in travel,
Speaker 1: but like really yeah point guard. It was a starter
Speaker 1: at at Drexel and an All League player, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: nig funk. They weren't as good at buck now, but
Speaker 1: he had played it. Um, what was the dynamic like
Speaker 1: in that team where you have just all guys that
Speaker 1: this is all you know, fifth year type of stuff
Speaker 1: and you're in your seventh year. What's that like? Ultimately,
Speaker 1: this year was just like a It felt like a
Speaker 1: big business trip, like the whole thing, Like we just
Speaker 1: from the time it started and we got together, like
Speaker 1: we just had this determination that hey, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: out and win these ball games and show people who
Speaker 1: we are and to have all these fifth years and
Speaker 1: all the experience. It really it really shined through, especially
Speaker 1: late in the year as everybody saw. But it was
Speaker 1: it was fun, you know, like you're playing with people
Speaker 1: that you know you can count on every game. And
Speaker 1: that was what was fun about it. And you know,
Speaker 1: even for me like early on the season kind of
Speaker 1: getting setback, like I wasn't playing a whole lot early on,
Speaker 1: but it was still really fun to be a part
Speaker 1: of it in those early games and you could just
Speaker 1: see it. You could just see building um to where
Speaker 1: we ended up later in the year. So why why
Speaker 1: weren't you playing early on? Uh? I mean, so I
Speaker 1: got I got I got behind when I had COVID
Speaker 1: that it just really messed me up. It messed my
Speaker 1: health up more than I think people know. I don't
Speaker 1: think our staff really understood like how sick I was. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because I'm guessing. I'm guessing right, Like
Speaker 1: when you're in Portland and the COVID stuff is crazy,
Speaker 1: You're like, yo, this COVID stuff is crazy. Right Then
Speaker 1: you get it yourself, You're like, wait, this is actually
Speaker 1: is really like how how how so first I had
Speaker 1: never had it? Well, so it's so funny. So Tal's Ridley,
Speaker 1: our player development ga. He you know, he's all about
Speaker 1: You'll see him all over Instagram and stuff talking about
Speaker 1: daily vitamin, is this that and third whatever? And so
Speaker 1: I got an, I got an extra workout with him
Speaker 1: on our day off, and I mean, dude, was like,
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm not gonna kill you. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: do this. Like, all of a sudden, I'm having this
Speaker 1: individual workout. We're going on like hour and a half,
Speaker 1: two hours. I'm sweating my ass off. I'm like by
Speaker 1: the end of the workout, I'm like, I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: this this ain't it like sums up with me. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was the workout or what, but
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm laying I'm laying on the
Speaker 1: couch in the locker room, just freezing like it was weird.
Speaker 1: And so I got my COVID test and you know,
Speaker 1: usually they take ten fifteen minutes to pop up. Mine
Speaker 1: probably took like, probably took thirty seconds for it to
Speaker 1: pop up on the test. Like I was super sick,
Speaker 1: and um yeah, I was down. So if you're like
Speaker 1: in the training room or you're by yourself, what happened?
Speaker 1: I was? I was, I was in the I was
Speaker 1: in the training room. I was like on the couch
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what was going on with me.
Speaker 1: I ended up going home and then I was like
Speaker 1: my trainer was like, hey, we should probably COVID test you.
Speaker 1: So I went back to the building, got the COVID
Speaker 1: tests and boom let up, went home and like it was,
Speaker 1: it was so bad. I couldn't even I couldn't even
Speaker 1: look at screens really for that two week period, Like
Speaker 1: I had no energy, I wasn't wanting to eat, nothing
Speaker 1: like that. And I was like, finally saw how real
Speaker 1: COVID is. Unfortunately, so when did you feel like yourself?
Speaker 1: Probably probably felt like myself. It probably took me until December. Realistically,
Speaker 1: I would say by the time by the time we
Speaker 1: started games, like I was pretty good to go, I
Speaker 1: had a little I had another little um injury bug
Speaker 1: right before the season started too, I like separated the
Speaker 1: AC joint in my left shoulder and I had a
Speaker 1: hip contusion. So I was out the week before our
Speaker 1: first game, couldn't even walk whatever. But by the time
Speaker 1: by the time we got into those that probably that
Speaker 1: second game and down in Charleston, like I was, I
Speaker 1: was ready to play. I really was, and I didn't,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't get the opportunity. I think the
Speaker 1: first game that I really got to play in in
Speaker 1: meaningful minutes was Clemson. But I just I just wish
Speaker 1: that I had some reps with the guys in the
Speaker 1: game before that point. You know, Um also also got
Speaker 1: some tick, you know, and I ended up getting some
Speaker 1: tick right before Christmas, and I had a really nice
Speaker 1: game right before Christmas, and you know that was that
Speaker 1: was a point where I was like okay, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm here, I'm ready to play, Like let's let's
Speaker 1: go do this thing. But I really do wish I
Speaker 1: would have got some reps earlier on in the year,
Speaker 1: just to build the chemistry with the guys and get
Speaker 1: the coaches trust and all that type of deal. What
Speaker 1: was the first like this is this is big time
Speaker 1: basketball mom um. I mean really just walking in a
Speaker 1: big ten gym, you feel it. Let make It's just
Speaker 1: it's just different. But we went um, well, we went
Speaker 1: to Clemson. It was like it was like all right,
Speaker 1: Like it was it was rocking in there. See Orange,
Speaker 1: you were like, okay, we're supposed to and we were
Speaker 1: playing with him, so it's like, okay, we're supposed to
Speaker 1: be here. You know, like a lot of guys that
Speaker 1: you know, me funking cam like we hadn't you know,
Speaker 1: been on a Power of five team yet so at
Speaker 1: that point we were like, yeah, yeah, we're supposed to
Speaker 1: be here, like this is cool stuff. Um, but really
Speaker 1: probably probably Illinois, Probably the Illinois game in the in December,
Speaker 1: because we walked into their first Big ten road game
Speaker 1: and like you know, it was hostile, it was hustle
Speaker 1: and like you just felt it. But I mean those
Speaker 1: are the games that you have the most fun. And
Speaker 1: we went out there and whooped their ass, so like
Speaker 1: it was just it was great. But I mean playing
Speaker 1: in the big tense awesome. You're playing a great team
Speaker 1: every night, Like that's that's what you ask for, no,
Speaker 1: no question. And they're all great arenas, they're all big.
Speaker 1: You know, everything matters in the game, the games matter,
Speaker 1: or your your your favorite place you played was where
Speaker 1: that's it? Okay, every polace has a special place in
Speaker 1: my heart. But overall, I would say this has been
Speaker 1: my most meaningful year. Um least favorite place you play,
Speaker 1: Kyle Baptist. Okay, it wasn't. It wasn't good time for me.
Speaker 1: It wasn't having the injury bug and all that was
Speaker 1: not it. Um Okay, favorite give me the uh your
Speaker 1: favorite road trip? Not a road gin that you play
Speaker 1: in not in the Big ten before you got to
Speaker 1: the Big ten, played in not in the Big ten. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We played at cal Berkeley and I just liked playing
Speaker 1: their gym. I don't know what it was. It was
Speaker 1: just cal Berkeley had a good feel and we played
Speaker 1: a good We played a good team when we played
Speaker 1: then it was like Charlie Moore and uh, Barnie Bird
Speaker 1: and some and Ivan rab like. It was a good team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was gym. It was fun. Yeah. The other gym
Speaker 1: that was fun, Like Grand Canyon is just like a party, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's a cal Baptist is trying to copy Grand Canyon, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the only difference is the you know, the the
Speaker 1: Baptist element of it. You're not quite gonna have that
Speaker 1: rowdy of a crowd. Canyon is like a Christian school,
Speaker 1: so suppose supposed to be like a Christian but I
Speaker 1: think that I want to say, they sell liquor in
Speaker 1: their arena. Um, okay, favorite Big Ten root, favorite Big
Speaker 1: Ten road game. Um, Our State was great, Northwestern was great. Um.
Speaker 1: I love playing in Purdue just because I love being
Speaker 1: the underdog and to go into to go in and
Speaker 1: play at the number one like that was just a
Speaker 1: cool experience. You know, what was it like to guard
Speaker 1: Jack eating? It was fun. Man. I was out there
Speaker 1: playing football for real, Like I'm nowhere near you know,
Speaker 1: I'm six eight two forty he's seven four, three hundred, like,
Speaker 1: but I mean, I'm a fighter, man. So we have fun.
Speaker 1: I mean me and him both. I mean, how many
Speaker 1: games are three? We were? We were joking the whole
Speaker 1: time because we were just beating the crap out of
Speaker 1: each other. And so I enjoyed it. You know, I
Speaker 1: love I love the competition. Like I really shined through
Speaker 1: in that Michigan game because we were, you know, We're
Speaker 1: playing against Hunter Dickinson, and I was like, it was
Speaker 1: my first start of the year, and I was like,
Speaker 1: and then he was talking a little bit. I was
Speaker 1: talking to you know, but it wasn't much to say
Speaker 1: because we were killing him. You know. It was one
Speaker 1: of those um but that was just fun. Playing great
Speaker 1: players is always fun. Why not play football? I totally
Speaker 1: could have played football, totally could have. I went to
Speaker 1: my first offer. It wasn't you know, it was just
Speaker 1: word of mouth from our head football coach at the time.
Speaker 1: I was fifteen years old and it was from Oregon,
Speaker 1: um so I had. I had Oregon, Boise State, Oregan
Speaker 1: State Lightning up to offer me and I hadn't even
Speaker 1: played a varsity snap. My freshman year our high school,
Speaker 1: Bellebe High School, we finished number one in the country
Speaker 1: for football and h you know, we had Miles Jacket,
Speaker 1: Buddha Baker, we had some really great players on our team,
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys who played power five. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, like coming where I come from,
Speaker 1: you gotta choose up pretty much like football's year round
Speaker 1: or basketball's year round. And like my direct community, Belview
Speaker 1: had such a strong football culture. But growing up playing
Speaker 1: hoops and Seattle's a special thing too, you know. And
Speaker 1: I feel like my love is just always been with
Speaker 1: the game of basketball. But you're at at Penn State.
Speaker 1: Could you play You're at Penn State and football. Uh,
Speaker 1: I don't have any eligibility, But could I p Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could. I could play football. I would say. Jalen
Speaker 1: scored more in the post than you did this year.
Speaker 1: I didn't get any post catches, I know, I don't
Speaker 1: think you guys see you got one. He was center
Speaker 1: in the semi in the I know he was if
Speaker 1: he would call a point guard. I was like, you're
Speaker 1: not the point guard I did. I got one in
Speaker 1: the I Got one tournament because I had a mismatch
Speaker 1: and Jalen actually threw me the ball. Yes you know, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: uh okay you you you start in the NCAA tournament,
Speaker 1: you end in the NCAA tournament. Right. What was it
Speaker 1: like knowing it's your last time around um a week
Speaker 1: ago playing the nca tournament. You know, I really I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. It was really
Speaker 1: really special. Just that whole last run that we had
Speaker 1: was really special. Starting from the uh we win out Northwestern.
Speaker 1: You know, you go win Northwestern in a do or
Speaker 1: die game, you come home, beat Maryland in a dud
Speaker 1: to die game, then go to the Big ten tournament.
Speaker 1: Got to win at least one another do or die.
Speaker 1: Like every game we're playing was do or die, you know.
Speaker 1: And so we had this magical run make the NCAA tournament,
Speaker 1: you know, get to get to go beat a team
Speaker 1: like A and M. It was just special and the
Speaker 1: only the only thing that's tough about it is like
Speaker 1: it's the NCAA Tournament. It's going to come down to
Speaker 1: one two possessions, and Texas finished that game really well
Speaker 1: against us, you know, they just they went out there
Speaker 1: and took it, and we were right there, and it
Speaker 1: would have been awesome to go out on a Sweet
Speaker 1: sixteen or an Elite eight or even farther. But so
Speaker 1: that's that's the bitter sweet part of it. But in
Speaker 1: looking back on my career, you know, starting in the
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament, and you know, winning to play in playing Kansas,
Speaker 1: to coming out here and playing the likes of A
Speaker 1: and m beating them, playing Texas like some people never
Speaker 1: makes the NSA tournament. I was fortunate enough to win
Speaker 1: two games in the NCAA tournament, you know, and to
Speaker 1: start to finish Like words can't describe how special that is.
Speaker 1: If there's one thing you could change, what would it be? Uh,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would. I don't think I would.
Speaker 1: You know. I look back and I had a great
Speaker 1: year of my senior high school. I had every award
Speaker 1: in the state of Washington you could get Iver's twenty one,
Speaker 1: eleven and five. I would have played my senior year,
Speaker 1: would I probably have had Power five interests? Probably? You know,
Speaker 1: if I would have went to prep school for a year.
Speaker 1: Would I would I have had that initially, probably, But
Speaker 1: to have this career that I've had has been a
Speaker 1: really special thing, you know, And I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: will ever have a career like mine, you know. I'm
Speaker 1: I've been joking around lately saying I'm the pioneer of
Speaker 1: the portal because I think I'm a first guy to
Speaker 1: ever play and actually compete at five Division one schools,
Speaker 1: and who knows if that'll ever be done again. So
Speaker 1: to have all these experiences, meet all these different people,
Speaker 1: being different work environments, you know, be in different places
Speaker 1: on your own, like I've had lifetimes of experience in
Speaker 1: this seven year career, and to cap it off with
Speaker 1: all the education as well, Like, it's been amazing. And
Speaker 1: I'll probably write a book or something on it some
Speaker 1: day because it really definitely should be definitely should you know, um,
Speaker 1: But no, it's been special. It's been really really special
Speaker 1: and glad to be a part of all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that I came to Penn State for
Speaker 1: my last year because very very special university to be
Speaker 1: a part of. UM. So I think you should do wrestling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you're done hooping like you should do like yeah, like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I've never been into it like that. I
Speaker 1: mean it'd be fun. I've never been into it like that.
Speaker 1: I'd rather I'd rather go like the Seahawks or something.
Speaker 1: If you were going to give advice to someone like you,
Speaker 1: because because you know, recruiting has changed so much even
Speaker 1: during your time in college, right like not just because
Speaker 1: the COVID year, the trade as for portal and so okay,
Speaker 1: so you're a high school athlete, you're you in high school,
Speaker 1: what would you what advice would you tell them? Be patient?
Speaker 1: Be patient? I feel like I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of kids almost get pigeonholed by schools. You know, these
Speaker 1: schools are like, whoa, if you don't commit, we have
Speaker 1: kids coming in on visits and blah blah blah, and
Speaker 1: it's not in the third and it's like there would
Speaker 1: these schools really rock with you and they really want
Speaker 1: you on their team, like they're gonna wait for you
Speaker 1: and make it happen. So you know, you do have
Speaker 1: buying power as an athlete. You know, if you're a commodity,
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna really want you and show that to you.
Speaker 1: But Yeah, just be patient, take your time and ask
Speaker 1: all the questions the best you can, you know, recruiting
Speaker 1: spiels and recruiting spiels. But ultimately, as you develop these
Speaker 1: relationships you get along in the recruiting process, it eventually
Speaker 1: shows up. You know, you can tell the real from
Speaker 1: the fake, and you know, just having the mindset that
Speaker 1: going into it, it's gonna be probably the hardest four
Speaker 1: or five years of your life, but some of the
Speaker 1: best four or five years of your life. So take
Speaker 1: the good with the bad and just enjoy how blessed
Speaker 1: you really are to be in that position. Okay, what
Speaker 1: about the portal. What would the advice be to somebody
Speaker 1: who's putting their name in the portal? You better have
Speaker 1: some numbers or something, because the portal can be a great,
Speaker 1: great tool for somebody that has had a good season,
Speaker 1: say at a low mid major, and they want to
Speaker 1: move up. But if you're just transferring to transfer and
Speaker 1: you don't really have stuff to show for, and you
Speaker 1: don't have coaches to vouch for you and this and that,
Speaker 1: that's how you fall out of it, you know, And
Speaker 1: so just to be smart about it, like, yes, it's
Speaker 1: becoming a lot more professional like being in this college atmosphere. However,
Speaker 1: still gotta be smart. You still gotta be you know,
Speaker 1: learned on what you're doing. And there's no reason to
Speaker 1: make rash decisions just because you think the grass is
Speaker 1: greener on the other side, because not always is it
Speaker 1: that way. Um. You've also so you were at Portland,
Speaker 1: it was the coaches got fired. So you're so they
Speaker 1: got rid of you. In the new staff Denver, you're
Speaker 1: part of the new team and then this year something
Speaker 1: all new altogether where you guys are so good. Your
Speaker 1: coach got another job, right, Um, so what's it like
Speaker 1: like you're at you're at your apartment. What's it like
Speaker 1: like you're still part of a basketball program, but your
Speaker 1: coach isn't there anymore. Yeah, we're just kind of floating
Speaker 1: right now for real, Like it's it's crazy. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we're happy for Trews. You know, we got a lot
Speaker 1: of love for sure's a lot of respect for Trews.
Speaker 1: And you know, he ended up going home and I
Speaker 1: think the infrastructure of the NIL is in place for
Speaker 1: him to go over there and make some stuff happen.
Speaker 1: You know. Right now, at this point with Penn State,
Speaker 1: just hoping they make the right decision on a coach,
Speaker 1: you know, bringing a coach that's going to bring excitement
Speaker 1: to the program, you know, is going to succeed like
Speaker 1: and I mean eventually, sooner rather than later. Gotta get
Speaker 1: the NIL stuff together, just because that's part of the
Speaker 1: game nowadays. Like people are making outrageous amounts of money
Speaker 1: through NIL and I think the athletes deserve it. But
Speaker 1: somehow you got to pull that money together to be
Speaker 1: competitive and being in the Big ten. It's a necessity nowadays.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is you have so many different programs,
Speaker 1: like even Penn State and you guys are successful where
Speaker 1: you have all these you know, fifth year guys as
Speaker 1: and so the thought as well, he must have like NIL,
Speaker 1: that must have. But it seems like everyone's like, well
Speaker 1: we got to catch up, okay, So does nobody have
Speaker 1: an IL? Is it only you know twenty teams or so? Right,
Speaker 1: like the SEC and then Miami and a handful of
Speaker 1: other teams. Like's what's the actual deal with who actually
Speaker 1: is getting a big NIL checks? I think most of
Speaker 1: the Power five schools are putting stuff in place. I
Speaker 1: know Texas A and m has been doing a good
Speaker 1: job with it. I know, even like Produe has done
Speaker 1: a good job with it. And obviously Notre Dame Shrewsbury
Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken that job if they didn't have the
Speaker 1: resources in place for him. But I wouldn't expect anything
Speaker 1: less out of Notre Dame. You know now they're very
Speaker 1: reporting to their basketball full program for a long long time,
Speaker 1: so it makes sense. But I just you know, it's
Speaker 1: an interesting thing. And you know, like our team, we
Speaker 1: were blessed because it was a lot of good people
Speaker 1: coming together and it wasn't about that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: Wasn't about the money, wasn't about anything like that. It
Speaker 1: was about coming together, having a good time with people,
Speaker 1: and you know, making a statement and making something that
Speaker 1: will you know, last for a long time as this
Speaker 1: continues to progress. I mean, the financial portion of it
Speaker 1: is just you know, like Inevioca with like it's it's
Speaker 1: just gonna be it. You know, like guys are gonna
Speaker 1: if a school is saying, okay, we'll get you ten
Speaker 1: grand here come through, and they're choosing between two schools,
Speaker 1: and the other school says, hey we got sixty grand
Speaker 1: for you, and you're torn between the two that's enough
Speaker 1: to you know, it's enough for a guy to take
Speaker 1: that other spot. So it's just a changing landscape and
Speaker 1: it's cool. I'm happy for all the players, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was saying that to our guys this year too.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, we didn't get a whole
Speaker 1: lot with the nil, but I hope that this season
Speaker 1: just makes way for all you guys, because if we
Speaker 1: can lay that path, that would just be amazing to
Speaker 1: see for the future. So did you keep gaming short
Speaker 1: from all five stops? I got Denver, I got Portland Jersey.
Speaker 1: I didn't get stuff from all five. I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to call them and get my stuff because I need.
Speaker 1: You gotta get your stuff. You gotta get your stuff.
Speaker 1: This is the story myself. It was something I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was some NCAA something. I don't know what they
Speaker 1: were talking about. But I mean, there's no point in
Speaker 1: them having hen jerseys in their back closet, like I
Speaker 1: need those. But I'll have my pen Se stuff, Denver stuff.
Speaker 1: I got a Portland Jersey, so I need gotta get
Speaker 1: your get you gotta get your Davis stuff. I need
Speaker 1: my Davids stuff for sure. That's special. Stuff to me
Speaker 1: and the CBU stuff. It's all special, you know, all
Speaker 1: part of my thing. My jersey collection is gonna be crazy.
Speaker 1: Did you keep the same number at it every yet,
Speaker 1: at every place? Yes, my red shirt year at cal Baptist,
Speaker 1: I was number four, but I didn't play, so you
Speaker 1: know it didn't matter. That's cool, that's really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I like, I like professional wrestling. Like, dude,
Speaker 1: you could totally, I mean, think about it. You obviously
Speaker 1: had the personality for it, right, you kind of already
Speaker 1: got the hair going. You just kind of gotta grow
Speaker 1: that hair a little longer, stay in good shape. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's crazy. I cut I cut my hair off.
Speaker 1: You did cut my hair off. How long have you
Speaker 1: been growing it for? Oh, probably a good year and
Speaker 1: a half, maybe less, I don't know, but it's been
Speaker 1: a while. But I just like, once basketball season ended,
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta just I gotta cleanse this
Speaker 1: out of me, Like I gotta just restart. It was
Speaker 1: my you know, stepping into the next phase of my life.
Speaker 1: So the hair was the hair was part of it. Um, well,
Speaker 1: you are a legend, first player ever to play at
Speaker 1: five schools and you have I couldn't even count the
Speaker 1: number of degrees. But that's really cool. And if I
Speaker 1: can help in any way in the overseas thing, I
Speaker 1: want to help in the wrestling thing. You let me
Speaker 1: know you got my number, and thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining me. Yeah man, thank you. Pretty interesting, right all right?
Speaker 1: Seven years, seven years, five schools and a couple of
Speaker 1: NCAA tournaments, including finally an NCAA tournament winn MA. Thanks
Speaker 1: to Mike for joining me. Thanks you you for listening, download,
Speaker 1: subscribe and rate it. Remember the Doug Gottlieb Show is
Speaker 1: daily three to five Eastern Time, plus we have a
Speaker 1: one hour in the bonus podcast. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This
Speaker 1: is all off