Speaker 1: A zone media.
Speaker 2: Welcome to it can happen here a podcast where so
Speaker 2: many things are happening here that we frankly have borne
Speaker 2: out the bit about trying to use this as our introduction.
Speaker 2: I am your host, Bio Wong. One of the many, many, many,
Speaker 2: many many crises that are unfolding in this country right
Speaker 2: now is a rolling ethnic cleansing carried out by Ice
Speaker 2: and Border Patrol with the assistance of the cops. And
Speaker 2: we have talked about this from a lot of angles.
Speaker 2: But a thing I want to sort of draw attention
Speaker 2: back to in this moment where there's increased attention and
Speaker 2: scrutiny from truly a series of really hideous ice shootings
Speaker 2: is what it's like to be in detention right now
Speaker 2: and how pass to blie people can be gotten out
Speaker 2: of the tension and with me to talk about something
Speaker 2: that I feel like I can't even describe as the
Speaker 2: horrors because it's simply worse than that. Is Ellie Bell,
Speaker 2: who is a community organizer, does many things, wears many hats.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Thank.
Speaker 1: You, Hello, I'm Ellie. And the reason I am here
Speaker 1: right now for this specific podcast conversation is that I
Speaker 1: am on a team that is trying to help many immigrants,
Speaker 1: but one in particular that I will be talking about
Speaker 1: tonight Alberto, who is a father and a husband and
Speaker 1: is currently detained in an ICED attention center in Indiana
Speaker 1: after being transferred from his home in Chicago. And you know,
Speaker 1: we are trying to get him out and to get
Speaker 1: his family's story out there and story out there, and
Speaker 1: you know, among many other things that ICE is doing
Speaker 1: in a way that it's into all of that. That's
Speaker 1: what I am here to talk about today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's begin. So I guess one thing that
Speaker 2: I want to sort of lead off with here is
Speaker 2: obviously the sort of the most intense ICE repression and
Speaker 2: raids have shifted to places like Minneapolis right now. I mean,
Speaker 2: who knows, as you're listening to this, maybe they've pivoted
Speaker 2: it to another place. I don't know. Everything is moving
Speaker 2: so unbelievably fast and horribly But also raids are still
Speaker 2: continuing in the places where ICE has norminally pulled out.
Speaker 2: Now the frequency of those raids has decreased because they
Speaker 2: simply don't have the personnel to run these kind of
Speaker 2: I don't know, they describe it as operational tempo. I
Speaker 2: describe it as they don't have the people to kidnap
Speaker 2: this many people at once.
Speaker 1: They can't kidnap or kill us all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which, you know, not enormously happy to see people
Speaker 3: chanting that here. I have a bunch of visceral memories
Speaker 3: of the last two times that I saw people chanting
Speaker 3: that and didn't go great. So let's not go on
Speaker 3: the likes to Dan twenty nineteen tangents.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually no, no, sorry, sorry, I am wrong there. Dan. One
Speaker 2: was we are not afraid to die, which is in
Speaker 2: some weeks bleaker.
Speaker 1: There's there is so much, there's so much history packed
Speaker 1: in here.
Speaker 2: Moving to the presence of you know, our version of
Speaker 2: the ethnic cleansing, can you go to sort of the
Speaker 2: start of this and talk about what the specific raid
Speaker 2: here looked like?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean, I think I want to zoom
Speaker 1: out for a moment before I get into the specifics
Speaker 1: of what happened with this man, this father and husband
Speaker 1: done his family, and then get into it. But you know,
Speaker 1: as I'm sure you know we are, we are all
Speaker 1: talking about we are being ice escalating their tactics in
Speaker 1: just an egregious way. They killed a woman in cool
Speaker 1: blood and just executed her in the street the other day. Ye,
Speaker 1: Renean good. Now, of course this is not the first
Speaker 1: or only person that they've killed recently. It's one of many.
Speaker 1: I think there are now eleven, it might be twelve.
Speaker 1: The number just keeps rising every day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we still don't having very good information about
Speaker 2: what happened. But literally the next day in Portland, someone
Speaker 2: either ice work border patrol. At the time I'm recording this,
Speaker 2: it's Tuesday, the thirteenth. We still don't know whether it
Speaker 2: was ior Berdtil, but someone shot two people in Portland.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think they're being charged right now
Speaker 2: for terrorism because this is just what happens. Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are all connected. But you know, we know
Speaker 1: that there are I believe there's been it was nine
Speaker 1: to days ago than now it's like eleven or twelve.
Speaker 1: It just keeps rising the number of people that we
Speaker 1: know of. I want to be really clear that we
Speaker 1: know of and as you said, we don't have good
Speaker 1: data on this. We do not have correct data on this,
Speaker 1: which is also an intentional tool of the state to
Speaker 1: obscure what is happening. But there are so many people
Speaker 1: who have been killed by ICE, and those are the
Speaker 1: ones that we know of, you know, since let's say,
Speaker 1: in the last two or three months, there are so
Speaker 1: many more. There are so many people missing from Alligator Alcatraz.
Speaker 1: What we saw happen in Minneapolis last week is horrendous.
Speaker 1: And you know the same way that Al Barrow, who
Speaker 1: I am part of this team trying to help get
Speaker 1: him out of detention. He did nothing wrong. He has
Speaker 1: had no criminal activity. There was nothing to warrant the
Speaker 1: excuse that he must be detained or treated violently. It's
Speaker 1: the same as how Renee did nothing wrong and nothing
Speaker 1: to deserve being murdered. He was witnessing, He was witnessing
Speaker 1: and being there for her neighbors, and she was sitting
Speaker 1: there in her car, and that is what we know.
Speaker 1: But her murder the same way that these raids and
Speaker 1: everything going on, it's an escalation tactic used by ICE.
Speaker 1: That's part of deep rooted old school fascist and authoritarian
Speaker 1: measures to test what they can get away with while
Speaker 1: people remain complacent in times of genocide and ethnic cleansing,
Speaker 1: and for societal people, you know, they just want to
Speaker 1: see what they can get away with and how much
Speaker 1: control they can exercise. So that being said, to get
Speaker 1: into what happened to Albero and his wife is they
Speaker 1: are in Chicago and they've been there for a little
Speaker 1: over a year since they came here to seek asylum,
Speaker 1: and they were first in a shelter and then they
Speaker 1: finally were able to get the work they needed to
Speaker 1: have a home with their three kids. You know, I
Speaker 1: want to be really explicit that this person is a father,
Speaker 1: a husband. He has other family members here who look
Speaker 1: up to him, who he is a father figure or
Speaker 1: an uncle too. He is a community figure and a leader.
Speaker 1: After he was taken, you know, I was told by
Speaker 1: a family friend who is part of the team that
Speaker 1: I'm working with. They told me that the women in
Speaker 1: the neighborhood, the other like immigrant women who all like
Speaker 1: work together and know each other, called him a pendadios,
Speaker 1: like a loving term for someone who is just like
Speaker 1: a community member, like a shining beacon in a community.
Speaker 1: And that is that is who he is. And I
Speaker 1: also really want to emphasize that it wouldn't really matter
Speaker 1: if that wasn't who he was, and if he was
Speaker 1: somehow quote unquote lesser than that or not a saint,
Speaker 1: because there's no such thing as like a good or
Speaker 1: bad immigrant. Nobody deserves to be treated this inhumanely, unless,
Speaker 1: of course, you're a fascist, then I think you know
Speaker 1: fair game.
Speaker 2: Hey, look, I'm gonna put my foot down there and
Speaker 2: say we are more than capable of dealing with fascists internally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we can simply hold the.
Speaker 2: Line on no deportations and simply with right. Right, I
Speaker 2: believe in us.
Speaker 1: But so what happened was it was early early morning
Speaker 1: the morning of Monday, December twenty ninth. Okay, it's officially
Speaker 1: been two weeks since this happened. Monday, December twenty ninth.
Speaker 1: It's like somewhere between maybe five and six am, six thirty,
Speaker 1: it's still dark out. He and his wife, whose name
Speaker 1: I'm not going to use to protect her anonymity and
Speaker 1: her identity. But he and his wife thought to their
Speaker 1: car and the windows were rolled down the slightest bit.
Speaker 1: They were getting in their car to drive to work,
Speaker 1: so that then she could go back home and be
Speaker 1: with her kids after taking him to work. And I
Speaker 1: want to be really explicit that we know that when
Speaker 1: ICE agents came to do this raid, they didn't have
Speaker 1: their names when they approached them. They didn't know anything
Speaker 1: about them until they took them in in the Chicago area.
Speaker 1: You know, you can talk about this a little if
Speaker 1: you want, but ICE has to have a warrant for
Speaker 1: the people they're picking up. They can't just pick up anyone.
Speaker 1: Based on the Novia concent Decree, which was just extended
Speaker 1: by the appeals court, we know that in Chicago this
Speaker 1: is something that has been continuously happening, and as we
Speaker 1: look at this from a broader context, they go after
Speaker 1: non white people, kidnap them, and ask questions later just
Speaker 1: because they think no one is going to care. And
Speaker 1: part of the reason that I'm talking about all of
Speaker 1: this is because I want to be very clear that
Speaker 1: people are watching, people care, and more people need to
Speaker 1: be watching, and more people need to care when it
Speaker 1: happens to people who are not white. Yeah, not just
Speaker 1: white women. Because obviously Renee's murder is horrific, and I
Speaker 1: saw her be able to raise one point four million
Speaker 1: dollars in less than a day, and Albero's campaign has
Speaker 1: been at fourteen thousand dollars for more than a week,
Speaker 1: and we can't raise more money because people have so
Speaker 1: much more sympathy and empathy for white people. And that
Speaker 1: is actually so tied into why ICE does the things
Speaker 1: they do because of that same whiteness, that same white
Speaker 1: supremacy where they think we can do whatever we want
Speaker 1: to immigrants and brown people. Who's going to care?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's that is one of the major constituent
Speaker 2: elements of this entire rolling ethnic cleansing is that you know,
Speaker 2: and this is this has been a thing in Chicago
Speaker 2: and since the raids really kicked off, is that every
Speaker 2: fucking day someone just disappears and everyone just goes about
Speaker 2: their lives.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and they count on us to do that, and
Speaker 1: they count on us to not be paying enough attention
Speaker 1: that we can't keep track of how shitty their data
Speaker 1: is and how inconsistent their data is and all of
Speaker 1: the numbers we don't have.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and the other thing they're relying on is
Speaker 2: they're relying on their not being any tend to stop them.
Speaker 2: What they're relying on is, you know, once once they
Speaker 2: grab someone, everyone just going, okay, well, this is you know,
Speaker 2: this is a statistic counting up and a counter and
Speaker 2: not this is a life that needs to be fought.
Speaker 1: For, exactly, And that is why I find it so
Speaker 1: important and why I am doing the work that I
Speaker 1: am doing alongside everyone else who's doing this kind of
Speaker 1: work to uplift stories and tell them because they can't
Speaker 1: be told by the immigrants themselves right now, because they're
Speaker 1: being tortured inside detention. And it's so crucial for people
Speaker 1: to understand that, Like, these are not numbers, These are
Speaker 1: not just names on a page. These are real people's lives.
Speaker 1: This is a real man who's three children, whose three
Speaker 1: young children have now gone to bed without him every
Speaker 1: night for two weeks. They don't know where their dad is.
Speaker 1: They don't know why he's not there, They don't know
Speaker 1: why he's apparently being tortured. They just know that their
Speaker 1: dad isn't there. And I need people to understand, you know,
Speaker 1: think about can you imagine Can you imagine being away
Speaker 1: from your family for two weeks and counting, not knowing
Speaker 1: when you're going to come back, if you're going to
Speaker 1: come back, if you're going to die in detention? Can
Speaker 1: you imagine being the child of someone And a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't have to imagine. I'm saying this for like,
Speaker 1: you know, white people and privileged people who don't have
Speaker 1: to think about these things or can get away with
Speaker 1: just going about business as usual, because there are a
Speaker 1: lot of us who have immigrant family and have loved
Speaker 1: ones who this has been done to, and we don't
Speaker 1: get to go about our day's business as usual because
Speaker 1: it's just not possible. It's just not possible. It would
Speaker 1: be like asking me to go about my life business
Speaker 1: as usual when my family in Lebanon and Palestine are
Speaker 1: being bomked. Yeah, like, it's not possible. It is not possible.
Speaker 1: All of these things are connected, Our lives are connected,
Speaker 1: and we owe it to each other to pay attention
Speaker 1: and to witness, especially because we are seeing that they
Speaker 1: will kill you for paying attention and witnessing because they
Speaker 1: don't want you to be able to exercise that right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and you know the secondary thing, and this
Speaker 2: is something that's been pretty well known for a very
Speaker 2: long time, is that the more of you that there
Speaker 2: are at a thing, the less likely they are to
Speaker 2: kill you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then this has been a thing with you know,
Speaker 2: US police killing the protest forever, which at the US
Speaker 2: doesn't like fire regular bullets into crowds because it's a
Speaker 2: terrible idea. It's how you get uprisings, right, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, I say this on the show all the time.
Speaker 2: This is how the Mexican government lost control of the
Speaker 2: city of Wahaka. Like they literally accidentally started like like
Speaker 2: a pseudo anarchist revolution in that city by doing that. Right, So,
Speaker 2: normally what they do is they pick off people when
Speaker 2: they're on their own.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be totally honest, I kind of wish
Speaker 1: that the government would make a ridiculous mistake right now
Speaker 1: that lends itself to people being able to get justice.
Speaker 1: That's all I'll say. I'm not going to give.
Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, but it's also the other
Speaker 2: thing I'll say about that is like whether or not
Speaker 2: they get away with this is also up to us.
Speaker 1: It is, It absolutely is. And that is why I
Speaker 1: say we owe each other everything, and we owe each
Speaker 1: other witnessing, because the thing is the job of telling
Speaker 1: these stories, of trying to help get people vulnerable, vulnerable
Speaker 1: people out of detention is also falling to a select
Speaker 1: few people who are the most vulnerable already and who
Speaker 1: have things on the line and things We're risking to
Speaker 1: do this because we know it's the right thing, and
Speaker 1: there are so many people with so much privilege, who
Speaker 1: could be doing something, whether it's really really small like
Speaker 1: donating five dollars or sharing someone's story, or calling Congress
Speaker 1: to have them pressure ICE to let immigrants out, whatever
Speaker 1: it is that you could be doing, there are so
Speaker 1: many people who are not doing that. And when there
Speaker 1: are so many people who are not doing any of
Speaker 1: the labor, all of that labor gets distributed so unevenly
Speaker 1: among a few people. You know. I always think about
Speaker 1: the what is it James Baldwin quote about how it
Speaker 1: is the job of you know, like a few people.
Speaker 1: It's only a few people on this earth who are
Speaker 1: like doing the job of like loving people. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: completely butchering it right now because it's late at night
Speaker 1: and I you know, can't think of it, but it's
Speaker 1: it's something like that, And I think about that all
Speaker 1: the time. And something that I'm thinking about right now
Speaker 1: a lot and having a lot of conversations, mostly with
Speaker 1: white people about is hey, you need to start doing
Speaker 1: something because you have a lot of privilege that you're
Speaker 1: not utilizing, and when you don't utilize it, you actually
Speaker 1: are doing a lot of harm. Not in necessarily the
Speaker 1: same way that the ICE agents are, but you're still
Speaker 1: kind of capitually to what they want you to do
Speaker 1: by putting all of this labor on vulnerable people who
Speaker 1: have so much to lose and so much to risk.
Speaker 1: And we can't afford to burn out constantly because we
Speaker 1: don't have the support and the more equitable division of
Speaker 1: labor that's needed. Like, we need everyone. We need everyone
Speaker 1: who can possibly do anything, whether that's putting your bodies
Speaker 1: on the line in person, or or if you're a
Speaker 1: disabled person and you're in bed and you can post
Speaker 1: something online or you can tell someone like we need
Speaker 1: to activate our community networks for each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's also a lot of sort of logistical stuff,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean there's like the old line about
Speaker 2: the army that like five or ten to one, like
Speaker 2: logistics people for every person who's out on the front.
Speaker 2: And that's also the way that if you're going to
Speaker 2: have an organizing thing that works, there's a as a
Speaker 2: sort of logistical tale behind everyone who's out doing stuff.
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, you need you need safety people too at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to be done.
Speaker 1: I'll finished telling the story of what happens to Albero too,
Speaker 1: because I want to, you know, center that because again,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a this is a community issue,
Speaker 1: and this is a community member who is missing now
Speaker 1: who can't do his part as a part of a
Speaker 1: whole community because he has he's been taken and and
Speaker 1: like when he was taken, they had guns. They had
Speaker 1: one pointed right at his wife. He was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: they were saying, we're not resisting, but they they kept
Speaker 1: danging on the car window and they reached inside the
Speaker 1: car window and they like, you know, he and his
Speaker 1: wife emphasized that they were going to work. They weren't
Speaker 1: doing anything, and I didn't care. They see a non
Speaker 1: white person and they grow hungry for violence. And after
Speaker 1: detaining her, you know, they asked her to sign a
Speaker 1: document so that she could go get for kids. She
Speaker 1: refused because she didn't trust them and she told them
Speaker 1: that she wasn't going to sign anything. And then later
Speaker 1: they found out, I think the lawyers found out that
Speaker 1: what it was is that they were giving her a
Speaker 1: voluntary deportation paper yep, for the whole family.
Speaker 2: And that level they all the time, they do.
Speaker 1: This all the time. That level of deceit and trickery
Speaker 1: is just horrible because they did it. They gave it
Speaker 1: to her in English, and she doesn't speak English. They
Speaker 1: thought they could just get her to sign it to
Speaker 1: get them out. This is being run by like the
Speaker 1: same people who are banging doors down and just going
Speaker 1: into houses in Minneapolis. It's all connected. They use the
Speaker 1: same oactics of violence and fearmongering, and it's terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean they've been moving personnel around so
Speaker 2: like there's like a non zero chance it was literally
Speaker 2: the same person, Like that person could be in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2: Now we don't know. And this has become the sort
Speaker 2: of background noise of American life. And he used to
Speaker 2: fucking not be the background noise because they're fucking grabbing
Speaker 2: people out of cars.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be. I mean, every day I see people
Speaker 1: post some type of video on TikTok or Instagram, reels
Speaker 1: or Twitter or blue Sky, Like I just see people
Speaker 1: everyday people post God. You know, it feels so horrific
Speaker 1: to watch all of this happen and have to go
Speaker 1: to a nine to five. And I have empathy for that,
Speaker 1: especially as someone who does community organizing. And I mean
Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of sacrifice. I know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of sacrifice in the types of things
Speaker 1: that I do, and there's also a lot of privilege
Speaker 1: in the fact that I even have community and loved
Speaker 1: ones who help me to pay my rent so that
Speaker 1: I can do this kind of organizing without worrying about
Speaker 1: not having shelter. And it's like we were saying before we,
Speaker 1: you know, started the recording, like I take it very
Speaker 1: seriously that I need to rest and I need to
Speaker 1: feed myself, and I need to take care of myself
Speaker 1: because rest is not resistance, but me getting the rest
Speaker 1: that I need and the care that I need allows
Speaker 1: me to resist in a way that helps someone else
Speaker 1: to get free. And that's like what we all need
Speaker 1: to be doing for each other.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say this because you know, there used
Speaker 2: to be a thing people would do whatever there is
Speaker 2: a large social upheaple. It was called the occupation of
Speaker 2: the factories. Yeah, you could go read Mellatesta writing about
Speaker 2: it in like nineteen twenty one, very old thing. See,
Speaker 2: the Seattle General Strike was like the most famous example
Speaker 2: people doing this in the US. But it was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: so there's some shit going on, we need to stop
Speaker 2: something from happening. So we are going to take over
Speaker 2: our workplaces and run the parts of it that need
Speaker 2: to be run so that people could get food, and
Speaker 2: then otherwise we're not and otherwise we're gonna cant told you.
Speaker 1: Don't actually jump hoped to go to your line.
Speaker 2: To buy the people in Seattle. Those people didn't know
Speaker 2: what a television was. Wow, And they were able to
Speaker 2: do this. If you showed one of the people in
Speaker 2: like in like the Seattle, like nineteen nineteen general strikes,
Speaker 2: people who did this, like if you showed them a computer,
Speaker 2: they would have a heart attack. And they did this well.
Speaker 2: So I believe that all of you you have seen
Speaker 2: things that would have obliterated these people's minds.
Speaker 1: Oh it's I have like a slightly different take. I
Speaker 1: don't know if they like a hot take or a
Speaker 1: cold take or a loopworm take. But my perspective is
Speaker 1: one who said that you just have to go to
Speaker 1: your nine to five while you watch all of this happen.
Speaker 1: Who said that you are saying, oh, I have to
Speaker 1: do that, No one is actually making you do that.
Speaker 1: The consequences of that are that if you don't go
Speaker 1: to your nine to five or you take a sick
Speaker 1: day or something. You might get fired, and you might
Speaker 1: be in a similarly vulnerable position to someone whose life
Speaker 1: is already on the line. But if we all stood
Speaker 1: in solidarity with each other, that would be less dangerous.
Speaker 1: Like if we chose each other over capitalism, that would
Speaker 1: be so radical. But that's my take.
Speaker 2: There are not enough cops to evict us all. There
Speaker 2: simply aren't.
Speaker 1: There, really just aren't. I think that people forget or
Speaker 1: conveniently compartmentalize the truth that we as a collective, when
Speaker 1: we band together, when we refuse to participate in individualism
Speaker 1: the ways that they want us to, we are so powerful.
Speaker 1: And I think that that scares people because that's a
Speaker 1: lot of responsibility. But again, that's really only so much
Speaker 1: responsibility if you see yourself as an individual as opposed
Speaker 1: to part of a collective. If you see yourself as
Speaker 1: bearing a piece of responsibility as part of a collective,
Speaker 1: the same way that ants all move in a colony
Speaker 1: and carry like a piece of bread together, maybe you
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel so much overwhelmed because you would understand that
Speaker 1: we are in this together. And I think that we
Speaker 1: really owe that to each other. To reframe that in
Speaker 1: our minds and in our nervous systems as well, so
Speaker 1: that we can just like maybe shut up and show up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, speaking of showing up, Okay, Yeah, we're locking
Speaker 2: back on share. We're locking in, We're locking the fucking
Speaker 2: we can do this, I believe in us. So going back,
Speaker 2: I guess from the sort of macro perspective to the
Speaker 2: micro individual perspective of yeah, the exact specific ways that
Speaker 2: one individual person gets treated.
Speaker 1: Totally, so sure, locking back into what is happening on
Speaker 1: a more micro level, giving an example of how Ice
Speaker 1: is dehumanizing immigrants in attention whether they are here quote
Speaker 1: unquote illegally or not. Alberto is not here illegally, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's going through the asylum process. When the immigrant attorneys
Speaker 1: on our organizing teams spoke with Alberto and specifically asked
Speaker 1: about his conditions at Fake County, he said that, and
Speaker 1: granted this I believe was some him in the last week.
Speaker 1: I think they haven't spoken to him in maybe a week.
Speaker 1: It's been hard too. But when they asked about his conditions,
Speaker 1: he said that he had all the basics, is now
Speaker 1: being given three meals a day and was at least
Speaker 1: at that point being administered medication. We don't have very
Speaker 1: good context and accurate data on how often that's actually
Speaker 1: been happening. He has a severe seizure disorder, and he
Speaker 1: requires medication to be administered at least I think twice
Speaker 1: a day, and even one missed dose can be fatal.
Speaker 1: It's been a while since they've been able to talk.
Speaker 1: I do know that he checks in with his family
Speaker 1: and a family friend every morning, only briefly. I spoke
Speaker 1: to them just before this call to get any updated information.
Speaker 1: There was a day this week where he didn't act
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, and we were all really worried,
Speaker 1: and we had no idea what that meant. It turns
Speaker 1: out that the WiFi just was down. But oh my god,
Speaker 1: how horrifying. Every day I wake up and I just
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's still alive. And he is
Speaker 1: only one of many many immigrants that I have worked
Speaker 1: on cases for and that I am trying to bring
Speaker 1: attention to. And it's terrifying to never know if he's
Speaker 1: going to be one of the many many people who
Speaker 1: have died in there, because it's been weeks or months
Speaker 1: or a year. Yeah, and so you know, as far
Speaker 1: as as conditions go, we don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: information about his specific condition. We know that he has
Speaker 1: been struggling. We know that it's been very hard on
Speaker 1: his health. It would be hard on anyone's health, whether
Speaker 1: they were disabled or sick or not, because the conditions
Speaker 1: are inhumane. We do know as reported by other clients
Speaker 1: of the immigration attorneys on our team. We know that
Speaker 1: at different attention centers, many have told her that it's
Speaker 1: very cold. One who is with the gen pop and
Speaker 1: could only speak with her from a tablet in the
Speaker 1: room while other detainees were around. Several have told her
Speaker 1: that they were denied access to nurses and medical care
Speaker 1: when they had headaches or a sore throat. I also
Speaker 1: want to tie this back to the global pandemic. We've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of people die of COVID or other
Speaker 1: illnesses well in detention. This is a public health issue.
Speaker 1: This is a public health and safety issue. Just the
Speaker 1: same way that people who are in prisons are treated
Speaker 1: poorly and not given the medical care they need, and
Speaker 1: that faulty is part of the point. Immigrants and detention
Speaker 1: are also complete deprived of medical care that they need,
Speaker 1: and again that would be really dangerous for anyone, but
Speaker 1: for Albero, he has a severe seizure disorder, Like one
Speaker 1: thing could go wrong and he would be done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like his life hangs in the balance. There's another client
Speaker 1: she has with castro intestinal problem has told her that
Speaker 1: they basically can't eat anything because the food quality is
Speaker 1: so poor and coupled with their condition, they just vomit
Speaker 1: and have diarrhea constantly. This is what is happening in
Speaker 1: ice attention facilities. They are just completely overrun with these
Speaker 1: public health and safety disasters and they don't have the
Speaker 1: care or attention because those conditions happening are orchestrated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they don't give a shit or they're orchestrated.
Speaker 1: They're a part of the cool. They don't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's worse is they do care, but they care about
Speaker 1: creating the suffering.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's like like for them, it's like therese
Speaker 2: people's ultimate goal is to not have non white people
Speaker 2: in the US. Right you could you can look at like,
Speaker 2: you know, Stephen Miller's wife, like, yeah, last week was
Speaker 2: like posting shit about what will happen when they deport
Speaker 2: a hundred million Americans.
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, right, they want enough, no estate, absolutely.
Speaker 2: No, like they and they don't. It doesn't really matter
Speaker 2: to them, Like you know, it's it's kind of bad
Speaker 2: PR if people die in their in their fucking camps.
Speaker 2: But they don't give gives. These people don't give a
Speaker 2: shit whether these people die or like are sent away.
Speaker 2: Like they don't fucking care, like they care about hurting people.
Speaker 2: They don't care where they live or die.
Speaker 1: They don't care about bad PR either to an extent,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, this is what the show
Speaker 1: is about. Authoritarian regimes and and fascism isout control. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean sure, I guess maybe if there's enough bad
Speaker 1: PR and they can't literally control people on the streets
Speaker 1: who are overtaking the situation and fighting back because they've
Speaker 1: gotten bad PR, that's a problem. But in and of itself,
Speaker 1: I don't really know if they care about the bad PR.
Speaker 1: They should care about the results of the bad PR,
Speaker 1: which is why we should all keep giving them bad PR.
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of that. There are so many
Speaker 1: things that have happened since the escalation in Minneapolis last
Speaker 1: week where Renee and Good was shot and killed. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was collecting notes before this call, and I'd already
Speaker 1: had many, and then when I was collecting notes just
Speaker 1: from today alone, I was like, oh my god, twenty
Speaker 1: things have happened. We've found out in the last day alone.
Speaker 1: There was a huge piece published in Slate that ICE
Speaker 1: is doing zero background checks on their applicants. A journalist
Speaker 1: got officially hired despite being a prominent person who speaks
Speaker 1: about leftism online. They failed the drug tests, They didn't
Speaker 1: even complete all the proper paperwork. ICE has literally no
Speaker 1: idea who they're hiring, and they don't care because they'll
Speaker 1: take anyone who is willing to terrorize people. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: that's going to cause it's already causing a lot of
Speaker 1: community ruptors. It's going to ruin communities. And the reality
Speaker 1: is they don't care if it does, because it's actually
Speaker 1: the point. If this were about accuracy or a real
Speaker 1: quote unquote justice or Americans who are you know, quote
Speaker 1: unquote being wronged by immigrants or whatever their narrative is,
Speaker 1: they would have a vetting process. They would want the
Speaker 1: best of the best. But they don't because it's just
Speaker 1: about annihilation and control.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and the other part of that too, If
Speaker 2: you want to look at the sort of more positive
Speaker 2: angle of it is, Like part of what's going on
Speaker 2: here is that they can't find enough people who want
Speaker 2: to commit an ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 1: Here's my thing, I'm little concerned that's not true. They
Speaker 1: are incentivizing people to betray their values, and part of
Speaker 1: what's going on in this country is that people are
Speaker 1: out of work. People need to stay that in house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's the thing, Like, if they were able
Speaker 2: to really easily like recruit those people into doing this,
Speaker 2: then they wouldn't be continuously upping the bonus rates, and
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be trying to like store cops from other agencies. Like,
Speaker 2: I think they seem to be having legitimate problems, even
Speaker 2: in a shitty job market, and.
Speaker 1: We should give them more. I think we should give
Speaker 1: them more. I think that we should incentivize. I personally
Speaker 1: would love to figure out how to incentivize ice agents
Speaker 1: to quit their jobs. Like, I don't know what I
Speaker 1: have to do. Maybe I'll gather my sex worker friends
Speaker 1: to organize some kind of campaign. I don't I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, you can you just just make their lives miserable
Speaker 2: until they quit, Like that's the that's the easy sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I and by the way, I say sex
Speaker 1: worker friends specifically because doms are tough and they would
Speaker 1: bully ice agents to no end. And I say this
Speaker 1: of the former DOB.
Speaker 2: I believe in US. I believe in US. We can.
Speaker 2: We can, We can make these people's lives hell. We
Speaker 2: could do this.
Speaker 1: I really think that if we take collective action and
Speaker 1: we all take stock of what are my skills and
Speaker 1: then use that to put the pressure on the people
Speaker 1: who are making this terror possible, I think that we can.
Speaker 1: I think we can take them all down. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think that we truly could convince people to quit if
Speaker 1: we make their lives a living hell. Do not let
Speaker 1: them stay at hotels, do not let them buy groceries,
Speaker 1: don't let them show their faces anywhere in public. Okay.
Speaker 1: This is also another thing that happened today. I think
Speaker 1: it was there was the largest data breach ever. There
Speaker 1: was a data breach today or yesterday that was forty
Speaker 1: five hundred names got leaked YEP with info in them,
Speaker 1: so they can't be anonymous. We have to take that
Speaker 1: and run with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, legal disclaimer, if we are not advocating legal
Speaker 2: actions here, we are simply not doing this.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying anything is possible if you believe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, however, Comma, what other people do with this data
Speaker 2: is or something we can really control it exists?
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I actually think it would be a shame
Speaker 1: if we did something with that data.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, now, speaking of doing things with our data,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was probably supposed to have taken
Speaker 2: like two at breaks right now, but fuck it, we're gonna.
Speaker 2: We're doing one here. I believe in us, and we
Speaker 2: are back now. One of the bleak things something that
Speaker 2: you want to talk about, Elie, is that the conditions
Speaker 2: that we're seeing here are things that have already killed people,
Speaker 2: and the danger here compounds the more risk you're at,
Speaker 2: the more you know. For a few again, but to
Speaker 2: take it to take a completely non abstract example, if
Speaker 2: you need seizure meds twice a day when you might die,
Speaker 2: the odds of terrible stuff happening to you increases. But yeah,
Speaker 2: can we talk a bit about the other people who
Speaker 2: this has already fucking happened to.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's so many, and we can't name
Speaker 1: them all because we don't know all of their names,
Speaker 1: because again, we don't have all the proper data, we
Speaker 1: only know some things. But that's why we're part of
Speaker 1: a big part of this campaign has been asking people
Speaker 1: to put pressure on congress people to rely Alberto, to
Speaker 1: show that we're not going to give up on him
Speaker 1: the way that other people have just been given up
Speaker 1: on and died in detention, and that we're going to
Speaker 1: work relentlessly to get him out because he matters. But
Speaker 1: you know, as ICE escalates its attainments across the country
Speaker 1: and in the Midwest, specifically in Ohio and Minnesota and
Speaker 1: all these places Chicago, Minneapolis, Columbus, what happens to him,
Speaker 1: so that's a precedent for others, the same way that
Speaker 1: what's been happening to other immigrants has set the precedent
Speaker 1: that this is going to keep happening, you know, showing
Speaker 1: that ICE can't just take someone and disappear them and
Speaker 1: get away with it really matters for everyone else. People
Speaker 1: are watching for every immigrant detained recently and everything that
Speaker 1: ICE is growing out and this is God, the I
Speaker 1: don't even know, I've lost track because the numbers keep
Speaker 1: changing and growing. I wanted to say that the second
Speaker 1: person that we know of that that Renee was the
Speaker 1: second person that we we knew of that Ice had
Speaker 1: murdered since New Year's Eve. But it wouldn't be surprising
Speaker 1: if there are, you know, so many. There's just so
Speaker 1: many immigrants who have died in Pestid and are currently
Speaker 1: dying in Pusidi, which is what we're trying to prevent.
Speaker 1: For Alberto, and like in La I still keep Porter
Speaker 1: in his own home. Meanwhile, you know, in Chicago or
Speaker 1: now I guess Indiana, because that's where they're keeping him.
Speaker 1: They're violating and detaining families like Alberto's who have done
Speaker 1: nothing to deserve this treatment. We saw a forty four
Speaker 1: year old woman, Marie Ange Blaze from Haiti who died
Speaker 1: in a US ice facility two or three weeks ago
Speaker 1: after being detained since February of twenty twenty five, I believe,
Speaker 1: who was captured and taken into pustody at an airport
Speaker 1: outside of US territories. And you know, once again showing
Speaker 1: isis lack of regard for the law, just total lawlessness.
Speaker 1: She was transferred to Louisiana and then somewhere else where
Speaker 1: she died after vocalizing trust pain and as far as
Speaker 1: I know, she didn't go in with the disability, didn't
Speaker 1: go in with health condition, but the conditions are so
Speaker 1: horrifying there that that is just to be expected, which
Speaker 1: is terrible, and this dangerous pattern can't continue to unfold.
Speaker 1: We don't want this to be Albero and his family's reality,
Speaker 1: nor any immigrants living nightmare. You know, like this is
Speaker 1: such a community issue across the world, Like every one
Speaker 1: of the people connected to anyone who has died in
Speaker 1: ice attention is impacted for the rest of their life
Speaker 1: by this, you know, Like it's what I was saying
Speaker 1: when I said, people who have immigrant family, we can't
Speaker 1: just go about business as usual. Every day I wake
Speaker 1: up and I don't know if something is going to
Speaker 1: happen to one or all of my loved ones who
Speaker 1: might be targeted by virtue of having dark skin, which
Speaker 1: is not a crime, but in America we're trying to
Speaker 1: make it one. And like again, we don't want this
Speaker 1: to happen to Albero. He's a community member. Everyone in
Speaker 1: the community is saddened. He's a father, he is an uncle,
Speaker 1: he is a husband. His wife is so upset and
Speaker 1: so worried and doesn't understand why this is happening because
Speaker 1: to her. He is a man who goes to work
Speaker 1: day and night to help his family, to provide for
Speaker 1: his family, and there just is absolutely no reason for
Speaker 1: him to be in there. And she was originally in
Speaker 1: detention too, they were both detained, but they let her out,
Speaker 1: and that also feels like part of the cruelty, you know,
Speaker 1: part of the cruelty, and the conditions of dying in
Speaker 1: ice custody are also rooted in being separated from hair, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and love. They let her out, you know, probably we
Speaker 1: don't know, We have no idea why. We can't begin
Speaker 1: to imagine, our guess, but it probably has something to
Speaker 1: do with separating them, because it makes the experience more expruciating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, as as bleak as the situation is,
Speaker 2: and it's really really fucking bad, we do in terms
Speaker 2: of being able to turn this a try to save
Speaker 2: one person's life and be use this as a precedent
Speaker 2: we can use to fucking try to get other people out.
Speaker 2: There is a legal advantage we have here that we
Speaker 2: don't in most places, which is that, Yeah, as we
Speaker 2: were talking about earlier, this stop was so illegal. They
Speaker 2: literally did a whole bunch of things that they were
Speaker 2: specifically ordered by a judge not to do yes, and
Speaker 2: that gives us, That gives us a little bit of
Speaker 2: hope in a situation where it allows us to put
Speaker 2: pressure in ways that normally, like would be very very
Speaker 2: difficult to see. Can you eat a bit more about.
Speaker 1: That the NAVA consent decree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like or how it can be deployed here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so right, there was nothing remotely legal
Speaker 1: about what they did. The NAVA Consent decree that exists
Speaker 1: in Chicago specifically, you know, limits ICE's ability to carry
Speaker 1: out warrantless arrests and vehicle stops. They require predetermined fallable cause,
Speaker 1: with the most recent rulings enforcing that despite constant violations
Speaker 1: by ICE. But you know, groups like the National Immigrant
Speaker 1: Justice Center used that to successfully challenge those violations, leading
Speaker 1: to potential releases and actual releases for people who have
Speaker 1: been detained and orders for officers being retrained.
Speaker 2: Which I mean, they're just gonna keep doing it, right,
Speaker 2: But like they're just gonna.
Speaker 1: Keep doing it. But you know what happened in Minneapolis,
Speaker 1: for example, with Renee and Good they got in trouble.
Speaker 1: Actually the officers had something sent to them to remind
Speaker 1: them like, hey, so you actually like can't do things
Speaker 1: the way that you did, and things like the NAVI
Speaker 1: consent decree, right, they cause problems because you can wave
Speaker 1: around a paper and say, hey, like you can't do this,
Speaker 1: and like is it kind of as fake as the
Speaker 1: constitution in some ways? Yeah, like they kind of don't
Speaker 1: care about it. Yeah, but it is a tool that
Speaker 1: can be used by lawyers like the wonderful immigration lawyers
Speaker 1: that we have on our team, and we have Kala
Speaker 1: and and who are or the immigration attorneys helping Alberto
Speaker 1: and his wife, and they can use that like they've
Speaker 1: filed a habeast and they can use all of this
Speaker 1: evidence of how they were illegally detained and violated without
Speaker 1: any grounds to push back and say you need to
Speaker 1: release him immediately.
Speaker 2: The piece of paper for the judge does give us
Speaker 2: a little bit of openings here. And could you explain
Speaker 2: to people, like what you know what people listening to
Speaker 2: the show right now can do to help here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would say two folds. If we
Speaker 1: are looking at Alberto's case and his family's case, there
Speaker 1: is a crowd fund that they can donate to. I
Speaker 1: can send you the link that you can share.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will link in the description.
Speaker 1: We really need people to donate to that. Again, Renee
Speaker 1: and Good was able to her wife was able to
Speaker 1: raise one point four million dollars in a day, and well,
Speaker 1: I am hoping and have faith that they will redistribute
Speaker 1: that to other people in need who are impacted by
Speaker 1: situations like this. It doesn't really feel great to see
Speaker 1: white people get all that money when we can't even
Speaker 1: push past fourteen thousand dollars for Albero. So we really
Speaker 1: need people to donate. There is also a change dot
Speaker 1: org petition for people to sign. We have a few
Speaker 1: thousand people who have signed it, but we need more,
Speaker 1: asking for Congress to pressure Ice to release him. This
Speaker 1: would also be monumental for other immigrants and attention. Okay,
Speaker 1: if we can use this as a case study, we
Speaker 1: know what we can get done through people power, through
Speaker 1: sheer will, and through not allowing things to just fall
Speaker 1: through the cracks of social media because you're too busy
Speaker 1: doom scrolling. That being said, what people can also do
Speaker 1: is they can post. I mean and I think that
Speaker 1: people should doom scroll less if it means that their
Speaker 1: nervous systems will be more regulated so that they can
Speaker 1: go up to defend community members and protect community members.
Speaker 1: But if what you have is your phone in bed
Speaker 1: and you're scrolling post there, let people know what is happening.
Speaker 1: Refuse to be silent, Refuse to just go about your
Speaker 1: day business as usual. Talk about things. Let them know
Speaker 1: that people see what's happening and they're paying attention. And
Speaker 1: we are not going to just let people be disappeared
Speaker 1: or killed and die in detention. We are not going
Speaker 1: to abandon vulnerable people. I every single one of us
Speaker 1: as the opportunity to use our voice. You don't have
Speaker 1: to be me, you don't have to be a well
Speaker 1: known who has large platforms. Every single one of us
Speaker 1: has a community that we can activate at any time.
Speaker 1: You text five people and tell them about something that
Speaker 1: is being done to someone, and they text five people,
Speaker 1: and they text five people. That's the entire world. Baby, Like,
Speaker 1: we got this shit.
Speaker 2: I believe we can appropriate purrabids, keep practics to help people.
Speaker 2: I believe in us.
Speaker 1: Pete Seeger said, solidarity forever, Okay. I believe that we
Speaker 1: will win. If what you do is make memes, make
Speaker 1: a meme, make a copy, pasta make a copy pasta
Speaker 1: and send it to people like if your method is
Speaker 1: shit posting short, take whatever you got and find a
Speaker 1: way to spread the news, and you know, do it
Speaker 1: for other immigrants to you know, do it for do
Speaker 1: it for whoever. But the more you speak out, the
Speaker 1: the more you make it possible for other people to
Speaker 1: speak out because they realize they're not going to be
Speaker 1: the only ones even if they're afraid to say something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's harder to crack down on everyone.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 4: And also the more you show people like I actually
Speaker 4: have no idea if he knows how much support he has,
Speaker 4: I would love for him to know that so that
Speaker 4: it helps him to get through.
Speaker 1: I know he knows that he has his family's support,
Speaker 1: and that's a lot. That's more than enough. But I
Speaker 1: would also, you know, love for people to just really
Speaker 1: like hair for immigrants and non white people in general
Speaker 1: right now who are on this soil that we call,
Speaker 1: you know, the land of the United States, because basically,
Speaker 1: anyone who is not white right now is terrified of
Speaker 1: what might happen to them if they're on the wrong
Speaker 1: street at the wrong time, and they're rolling out these
Speaker 1: terror campaigns in Oregon and Columbus and Minneapolis and Chicago
Speaker 1: and New York. I knew they were going to escalate
Speaker 1: things in New York after Zoron took office, because it's
Speaker 1: a great excuse. Everyone is terrified right now, and the
Speaker 1: best thing that you can do is show up every
Speaker 1: day and be human to each other. Buy someone a coffee,
Speaker 1: like offer to just listen to a non white person
Speaker 1: in your life, take an anti racism course, show up
Speaker 1: as a human being who cares about other human beings,
Speaker 1: because that is the thing that matters most when I
Speaker 1: think about stories that we have from way back in history,
Speaker 1: like all just flag you know Anne Frank, because that's
Speaker 1: the one that everyone knows. The thing that mattered for her,
Speaker 1: the thing that kept her alive for longer than she
Speaker 1: could have maybe been alive, is people being human to
Speaker 1: each other. Like, I think that's such an underrated way
Speaker 1: to show up, and we take it for granted every
Speaker 1: day because we don't consider always how our smallest actions
Speaker 1: impact each other. And the truth is that your smallest
Speaker 1: actions could be the difference between someone losing their life
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to close this by
Speaker 2: doing as this tradition about one in every twelve episodes,
Speaker 2: I do answer something from the fucking end darnamic manifesto. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: no this he has this lie he because remember that
Speaker 2: the frontiers of the rebellion is everywhere, and even the
Speaker 2: smallest act if insurrection pushes our lines forward, and it does, right,
Speaker 2: it's impossible to know until it happens what the single
Speaker 2: push them makes the damn break is going to be.
Speaker 2: But it will be something, yeah, And it is literally
Speaker 2: impossible to tell what it's going to be until you
Speaker 2: know the The the only way you can find out
Speaker 2: if the action that you are taking is going to
Speaker 2: be the one that knocks everything over is by doing it.
Speaker 2: So go do.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, we owe each other everything. And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something kind of silly because I am
Speaker 1: who I am. But this is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: songs in the world. And this is a Shrek reference.
Speaker 2: Oh my God, All Star.
Speaker 1: By smash Mouth, Like you know all flick Glitters' gold
Speaker 1: only shooting Stars, break the mold, You'll never know if
Speaker 1: you don't go, you'll never shine if you don't go
Speaker 1: like that, it's a directive. That's a directive. I think
Speaker 1: we should listen to smash Mouth and we should try
Speaker 1: We should just try it for each other. I take
Speaker 1: that song very serious.
Speaker 2: You know, I really, really truly. When I was planning
Speaker 2: this episode, like a week ago, it did not think
Speaker 2: it was going to end with and Or and Shrek.
Speaker 2: But you know, this is why you could never look.
Speaker 2: You never know how things are going to go, and
Speaker 2: sometimes they end well. Yeah, Alie, do you have anything
Speaker 2: else that you want to make sure people know and
Speaker 2: where can people find you?
Speaker 1: I don't have anything else that I think people should know.
Speaker 1: People can find me on Instagram at liter ly e
Speaker 1: l I t e r e l l y like
Speaker 1: literally but with my name.
Speaker 2: E ll y incredible. Well we'll have this in the
Speaker 2: description too.
Speaker 1: Great. That's when my username everywhere on social media since
Speaker 1: I was fifteen, so it's been sixteen years. People are
Speaker 1: always like, how did you get that user name gil
Speaker 1: gil baby? You had to you had to be on
Speaker 1: on Twitter as a as a kid. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's It's my same use surname everywhere. I have a
Speaker 1: newsletter that you could find on my social media where
Speaker 1: I write about community care and what we owe to
Speaker 1: each other. I'm way less concerned about people being able
Speaker 1: to find me except to just you know, go go
Speaker 1: share the campaigns that I've shared on my cage for
Speaker 1: Alberto and other immigrants, because I am constantly sharing things.
Speaker 1: If you know, this helps me to get more of
Speaker 1: a platform so that people share more of the crucial
Speaker 1: campaigns that I share, that is great. My main concern
Speaker 1: is I don't need to be seen or heard or
Speaker 1: listened to any more than is necessary to get people
Speaker 1: to take action to help more vulnerable people than me.
Speaker 1: But if people also want to listen to things I
Speaker 1: have to say, or go for it. I quote mash
Speaker 1: Mouth a lot, and I'm very gay.
Speaker 2: We love to see it. Okay, this has been It
Speaker 2: could happen here a podcast done by the girl who
Speaker 2: posted ice must be destroyed after every single post for
Speaker 2: eight goddamn years. And now we're here, so let's go fight.
Speaker 1: And now we're here and for its ebooks, everything happens
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: Yes, it could happen.
Speaker 5: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more
Speaker 5: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia
Speaker 5: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts.
Speaker 5: You can now find sources for it could happen here,
Speaker 5: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.