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Speaker 1: A zone media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to it can happen here a podcast where so

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Speaker 2: many things are happening here that we frankly have borne

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Speaker 2: out the bit about trying to use this as our introduction.

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Speaker 2: I am your host, Bio Wong. One of the many, many, many,

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Speaker 2: many many crises that are unfolding in this country right

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Speaker 2: now is a rolling ethnic cleansing carried out by Ice

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Speaker 2: and Border Patrol with the assistance of the cops. And

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Speaker 2: we have talked about this from a lot of angles.

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Speaker 2: But a thing I want to sort of draw attention

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Speaker 2: back to in this moment where there's increased attention and

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Speaker 2: scrutiny from truly a series of really hideous ice shootings

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Speaker 2: is what it's like to be in detention right now

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Speaker 2: and how pass to blie people can be gotten out

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Speaker 2: of the tension and with me to talk about something

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Speaker 2: that I feel like I can't even describe as the

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Speaker 2: horrors because it's simply worse than that. Is Ellie Bell,

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Speaker 2: who is a community organizer, does many things, wears many hats.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You, Hello, I'm Ellie. And the reason I am here

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Speaker 1: right now for this specific podcast conversation is that I

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Speaker 1: am on a team that is trying to help many immigrants,

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Speaker 1: but one in particular that I will be talking about

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Speaker 1: tonight Alberto, who is a father and a husband and

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Speaker 1: is currently detained in an ICED attention center in Indiana

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Speaker 1: after being transferred from his home in Chicago. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we are trying to get him out and to get

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Speaker 1: his family's story out there and story out there, and

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Speaker 1: you know, among many other things that ICE is doing

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Speaker 1: in a way that it's into all of that. That's

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Speaker 1: what I am here to talk about today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's begin. So I guess one thing that

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Speaker 2: I want to sort of lead off with here is

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Speaker 2: obviously the sort of the most intense ICE repression and

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Speaker 2: raids have shifted to places like Minneapolis right now. I mean,

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Speaker 2: who knows, as you're listening to this, maybe they've pivoted

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Speaker 2: it to another place. I don't know. Everything is moving

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Speaker 2: so unbelievably fast and horribly But also raids are still

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Speaker 2: continuing in the places where ICE has norminally pulled out.

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Speaker 2: Now the frequency of those raids has decreased because they

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Speaker 2: simply don't have the personnel to run these kind of

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Speaker 2: I don't know, they describe it as operational tempo. I

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Speaker 2: describe it as they don't have the people to kidnap

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Speaker 2: this many people at once.

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Speaker 1: They can't kidnap or kill us all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which, you know, not enormously happy to see people

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Speaker 3: chanting that here. I have a bunch of visceral memories

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Speaker 3: of the last two times that I saw people chanting

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Speaker 3: that and didn't go great. So let's not go on

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Speaker 3: the likes to Dan twenty nineteen tangents.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Actually no, no, sorry, sorry, I am wrong there. Dan. One

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Speaker 2: was we are not afraid to die, which is in

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Speaker 2: some weeks bleaker.

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Speaker 1: There's there is so much, there's so much history packed

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Speaker 1: in here.

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Speaker 2: Moving to the presence of you know, our version of

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Speaker 2: the ethnic cleansing, can you go to sort of the

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Speaker 2: start of this and talk about what the specific raid

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Speaker 2: here looked like?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean, I think I want to zoom

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Speaker 1: out for a moment before I get into the specifics

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Speaker 1: of what happened with this man, this father and husband

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Speaker 1: done his family, and then get into it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: as I'm sure you know we are, we are all

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Speaker 1: talking about we are being ice escalating their tactics in

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Speaker 1: just an egregious way. They killed a woman in cool

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Speaker 1: blood and just executed her in the street the other day. Ye,

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Speaker 1: Renean good. Now, of course this is not the first

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Speaker 1: or only person that they've killed recently. It's one of many.

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Speaker 1: I think there are now eleven, it might be twelve.

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Speaker 1: The number just keeps rising every day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we still don't having very good information about

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Speaker 2: what happened. But literally the next day in Portland, someone

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Speaker 2: either ice work border patrol. At the time I'm recording this,

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Speaker 2: it's Tuesday, the thirteenth. We still don't know whether it

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Speaker 2: was ior Berdtil, but someone shot two people in Portland.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think they're being charged right now

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Speaker 2: for terrorism because this is just what happens. Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, these are all connected. But you know, we know

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Speaker 1: that there are I believe there's been it was nine

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Speaker 1: to days ago than now it's like eleven or twelve.

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Speaker 1: It just keeps rising the number of people that we

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Speaker 1: know of. I want to be really clear that we

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Speaker 1: know of and as you said, we don't have good

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Speaker 1: data on this. We do not have correct data on this,

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Speaker 1: which is also an intentional tool of the state to

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Speaker 1: obscure what is happening. But there are so many people

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Speaker 1: who have been killed by ICE, and those are the

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Speaker 1: ones that we know of, you know, since let's say,

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Speaker 1: in the last two or three months, there are so

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Speaker 1: many more. There are so many people missing from Alligator Alcatraz.

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Speaker 1: What we saw happen in Minneapolis last week is horrendous.

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Speaker 1: And you know the same way that Al Barrow, who

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Speaker 1: I am part of this team trying to help get

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Speaker 1: him out of detention. He did nothing wrong. He has

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Speaker 1: had no criminal activity. There was nothing to warrant the

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Speaker 1: excuse that he must be detained or treated violently. It's

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Speaker 1: the same as how Renee did nothing wrong and nothing

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Speaker 1: to deserve being murdered. He was witnessing, He was witnessing

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Speaker 1: and being there for her neighbors, and she was sitting

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Speaker 1: there in her car, and that is what we know.

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Speaker 1: But her murder the same way that these raids and

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Speaker 1: everything going on, it's an escalation tactic used by ICE.

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Speaker 1: That's part of deep rooted old school fascist and authoritarian

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Speaker 1: measures to test what they can get away with while

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Speaker 1: people remain complacent in times of genocide and ethnic cleansing,

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Speaker 1: and for societal people, you know, they just want to

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Speaker 1: see what they can get away with and how much

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Speaker 1: control they can exercise. So that being said, to get

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Speaker 1: into what happened to Albero and his wife is they

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Speaker 1: are in Chicago and they've been there for a little

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Speaker 1: over a year since they came here to seek asylum,

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Speaker 1: and they were first in a shelter and then they

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Speaker 1: finally were able to get the work they needed to

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Speaker 1: have a home with their three kids. You know, I

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Speaker 1: want to be really explicit that this person is a father,

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Speaker 1: a husband. He has other family members here who look

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Speaker 1: up to him, who he is a father figure or

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Speaker 1: an uncle too. He is a community figure and a leader.

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Speaker 1: After he was taken, you know, I was told by

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Speaker 1: a family friend who is part of the team that

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Speaker 1: I'm working with. They told me that the women in

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood, the other like immigrant women who all like

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Speaker 1: work together and know each other, called him a pendadios,

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Speaker 1: like a loving term for someone who is just like

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Speaker 1: a community member, like a shining beacon in a community.

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Speaker 1: And that is that is who he is. And I

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Speaker 1: also really want to emphasize that it wouldn't really matter

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Speaker 1: if that wasn't who he was, and if he was

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Speaker 1: somehow quote unquote lesser than that or not a saint,

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Speaker 1: because there's no such thing as like a good or

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Speaker 1: bad immigrant. Nobody deserves to be treated this inhumanely, unless,

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Speaker 1: of course, you're a fascist, then I think you know

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Speaker 1: fair game.

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Speaker 2: Hey, look, I'm gonna put my foot down there and

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Speaker 2: say we are more than capable of dealing with fascists internally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we can simply hold the.

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Speaker 2: Line on no deportations and simply with right. Right, I

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Speaker 2: believe in us.

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Speaker 1: But so what happened was it was early early morning

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Speaker 1: the morning of Monday, December twenty ninth. Okay, it's officially

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Speaker 1: been two weeks since this happened. Monday, December twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: It's like somewhere between maybe five and six am, six thirty,

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Speaker 1: it's still dark out. He and his wife, whose name

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to use to protect her anonymity and

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Speaker 1: her identity. But he and his wife thought to their

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Speaker 1: car and the windows were rolled down the slightest bit.

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Speaker 1: They were getting in their car to drive to work,

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Speaker 1: so that then she could go back home and be

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Speaker 1: with her kids after taking him to work. And I

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Speaker 1: want to be really explicit that we know that when

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Speaker 1: ICE agents came to do this raid, they didn't have

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Speaker 1: their names when they approached them. They didn't know anything

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Speaker 1: about them until they took them in in the Chicago area.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can talk about this a little if

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Speaker 1: you want, but ICE has to have a warrant for

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Speaker 1: the people they're picking up. They can't just pick up anyone.

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Speaker 1: Based on the Novia concent Decree, which was just extended

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Speaker 1: by the appeals court, we know that in Chicago this

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Speaker 1: is something that has been continuously happening, and as we

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Speaker 1: look at this from a broader context, they go after

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Speaker 1: non white people, kidnap them, and ask questions later just

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Speaker 1: because they think no one is going to care. And

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Speaker 1: part of the reason that I'm talking about all of

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Speaker 1: this is because I want to be very clear that

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Speaker 1: people are watching, people care, and more people need to

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Speaker 1: be watching, and more people need to care when it

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Speaker 1: happens to people who are not white. Yeah, not just

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Speaker 1: white women. Because obviously Renee's murder is horrific, and I

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Speaker 1: saw her be able to raise one point four million

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Speaker 1: dollars in less than a day, and Albero's campaign has

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Speaker 1: been at fourteen thousand dollars for more than a week,

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Speaker 1: and we can't raise more money because people have so

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Speaker 1: much more sympathy and empathy for white people. And that

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Speaker 1: is actually so tied into why ICE does the things

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Speaker 1: they do because of that same whiteness, that same white

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Speaker 1: supremacy where they think we can do whatever we want

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Speaker 1: to immigrants and brown people. Who's going to care?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's that is one of the major constituent

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Speaker 2: elements of this entire rolling ethnic cleansing is that you know,

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Speaker 2: and this is this has been a thing in Chicago

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Speaker 2: and since the raids really kicked off, is that every

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Speaker 2: fucking day someone just disappears and everyone just goes about

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Speaker 2: their lives.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and they count on us to do that, and

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Speaker 1: they count on us to not be paying enough attention

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Speaker 1: that we can't keep track of how shitty their data

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Speaker 1: is and how inconsistent their data is and all of

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Speaker 1: the numbers we don't have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and the other thing they're relying on is

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Speaker 2: they're relying on their not being any tend to stop them.

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Speaker 2: What they're relying on is, you know, once once they

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Speaker 2: grab someone, everyone just going, okay, well, this is you know,

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Speaker 2: this is a statistic counting up and a counter and

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Speaker 2: not this is a life that needs to be fought.

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Speaker 1: For, exactly, And that is why I find it so

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Speaker 1: important and why I am doing the work that I

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Speaker 1: am doing alongside everyone else who's doing this kind of

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Speaker 1: work to uplift stories and tell them because they can't

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Speaker 1: be told by the immigrants themselves right now, because they're

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Speaker 1: being tortured inside detention. And it's so crucial for people

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Speaker 1: to understand that, Like, these are not numbers, These are

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Speaker 1: not just names on a page. These are real people's lives.

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Speaker 1: This is a real man who's three children, whose three

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Speaker 1: young children have now gone to bed without him every

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Speaker 1: night for two weeks. They don't know where their dad is.

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Speaker 1: They don't know why he's not there, They don't know

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Speaker 1: why he's apparently being tortured. They just know that their

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Speaker 1: dad isn't there. And I need people to understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: think about can you imagine Can you imagine being away

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Speaker 1: from your family for two weeks and counting, not knowing

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Speaker 1: when you're going to come back, if you're going to

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Speaker 1: come back, if you're going to die in detention? Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine being the child of someone And a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't have to imagine. I'm saying this for like,

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Speaker 1: you know, white people and privileged people who don't have

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Speaker 1: to think about these things or can get away with

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Speaker 1: just going about business as usual, because there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of us who have immigrant family and have loved

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Speaker 1: ones who this has been done to, and we don't

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Speaker 1: get to go about our day's business as usual because

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Speaker 1: it's just not possible. It's just not possible. It would

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Speaker 1: be like asking me to go about my life business

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Speaker 1: as usual when my family in Lebanon and Palestine are

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Speaker 1: being bomked. Yeah, like, it's not possible. It is not possible.

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Speaker 1: All of these things are connected, Our lives are connected,

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Speaker 1: and we owe it to each other to pay attention

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Speaker 1: and to witness, especially because we are seeing that they

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Speaker 1: will kill you for paying attention and witnessing because they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to be able to exercise that right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and you know the secondary thing, and this

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Speaker 2: is something that's been pretty well known for a very

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Speaker 2: long time, is that the more of you that there

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Speaker 2: are at a thing, the less likely they are to

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Speaker 2: kill you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then this has been a thing with you know,

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Speaker 2: US police killing the protest forever, which at the US

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Speaker 2: doesn't like fire regular bullets into crowds because it's a

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Speaker 2: terrible idea. It's how you get uprisings, right, Like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I say this on the show all the time.

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Speaker 2: This is how the Mexican government lost control of the

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Speaker 2: city of Wahaka. Like they literally accidentally started like like

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Speaker 2: a pseudo anarchist revolution in that city by doing that. Right, So,

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Speaker 2: normally what they do is they pick off people when

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Speaker 2: they're on their own.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be totally honest, I kind of wish

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Speaker 1: that the government would make a ridiculous mistake right now

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Speaker 1: that lends itself to people being able to get justice.

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Speaker 1: That's all I'll say. I'm not going to give.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, but it's also the other

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Speaker 2: thing I'll say about that is like whether or not

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Speaker 2: they get away with this is also up to us.

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Speaker 1: It is, It absolutely is. And that is why I

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Speaker 1: say we owe each other everything, and we owe each

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Speaker 1: other witnessing, because the thing is the job of telling

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Speaker 1: these stories, of trying to help get people vulnerable, vulnerable

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Speaker 1: people out of detention is also falling to a select

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Speaker 1: few people who are the most vulnerable already and who

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Speaker 1: have things on the line and things We're risking to

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Speaker 1: do this because we know it's the right thing, and

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Speaker 1: there are so many people with so much privilege, who

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Speaker 1: could be doing something, whether it's really really small like

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Speaker 1: donating five dollars or sharing someone's story, or calling Congress

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Speaker 1: to have them pressure ICE to let immigrants out, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that you could be doing, there are so

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Speaker 1: many people who are not doing that. And when there

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Speaker 1: are so many people who are not doing any of

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Speaker 1: the labor, all of that labor gets distributed so unevenly

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Speaker 1: among a few people. You know. I always think about

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Speaker 1: the what is it James Baldwin quote about how it

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Speaker 1: is the job of you know, like a few people.

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Speaker 1: It's only a few people on this earth who are

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Speaker 1: like doing the job of like loving people. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: completely butchering it right now because it's late at night

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Speaker 1: and I you know, can't think of it, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's something like that, And I think about that all

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Speaker 1: the time. And something that I'm thinking about right now

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Speaker 1: a lot and having a lot of conversations, mostly with

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Speaker 1: white people about is hey, you need to start doing

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Speaker 1: something because you have a lot of privilege that you're

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Speaker 1: not utilizing, and when you don't utilize it, you actually

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Speaker 1: are doing a lot of harm. Not in necessarily the

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Speaker 1: same way that the ICE agents are, but you're still

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Speaker 1: kind of capitually to what they want you to do

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Speaker 1: by putting all of this labor on vulnerable people who

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Speaker 1: have so much to lose and so much to risk.

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Speaker 1: And we can't afford to burn out constantly because we

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Speaker 1: don't have the support and the more equitable division of

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Speaker 1: labor that's needed. Like, we need everyone. We need everyone

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Speaker 1: who can possibly do anything, whether that's putting your bodies

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Speaker 1: on the line in person, or or if you're a

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Speaker 1: disabled person and you're in bed and you can post

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Speaker 1: something online or you can tell someone like we need

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Speaker 1: to activate our community networks for each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's also a lot of sort of logistical stuff,

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Speaker 2: you know. I mean there's like the old line about

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Speaker 2: the army that like five or ten to one, like

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Speaker 2: logistics people for every person who's out on the front.

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Speaker 2: And that's also the way that if you're going to

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Speaker 2: have an organizing thing that works, there's a as a

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Speaker 2: sort of logistical tale behind everyone who's out doing stuff.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely right, you need you need safety people too at home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to be done.

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Speaker 1: I'll finished telling the story of what happens to Albero too,

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Speaker 1: because I want to, you know, center that because again,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is a this is a community issue,

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Speaker 1: and this is a community member who is missing now

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Speaker 1: who can't do his part as a part of a

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Speaker 1: whole community because he has he's been taken and and

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Speaker 1: like when he was taken, they had guns. They had

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Speaker 1: one pointed right at his wife. He was saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were saying, we're not resisting, but they they kept

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Speaker 1: danging on the car window and they reached inside the

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Speaker 1: car window and they like, you know, he and his

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Speaker 1: wife emphasized that they were going to work. They weren't

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Speaker 1: doing anything, and I didn't care. They see a non

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Speaker 1: white person and they grow hungry for violence. And after

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Speaker 1: detaining her, you know, they asked her to sign a

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Speaker 1: document so that she could go get for kids. She

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Speaker 1: refused because she didn't trust them and she told them

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Speaker 1: that she wasn't going to sign anything. And then later

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Speaker 1: they found out, I think the lawyers found out that

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Speaker 1: what it was is that they were giving her a

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Speaker 1: voluntary deportation paper yep, for the whole family.

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Speaker 2: And that level they all the time, they do.

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Speaker 1: This all the time. That level of deceit and trickery

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Speaker 1: is just horrible because they did it. They gave it

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Speaker 1: to her in English, and she doesn't speak English. They

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Speaker 1: thought they could just get her to sign it to

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Speaker 1: get them out. This is being run by like the

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Speaker 1: same people who are banging doors down and just going

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Speaker 1: into houses in Minneapolis. It's all connected. They use the

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Speaker 1: same oactics of violence and fearmongering, and it's terrible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean they've been moving personnel around so

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Speaker 2: like there's like a non zero chance it was literally

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Speaker 2: the same person, Like that person could be in Minneapolis.

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Speaker 2: Now we don't know. And this has become the sort

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Speaker 2: of background noise of American life. And he used to

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Speaker 2: fucking not be the background noise because they're fucking grabbing

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Speaker 2: people out of cars.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't be. I mean, every day I see people

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Speaker 1: post some type of video on TikTok or Instagram, reels

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Speaker 1: or Twitter or blue Sky, Like I just see people

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Speaker 1: everyday people post God. You know, it feels so horrific

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Speaker 1: to watch all of this happen and have to go

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Speaker 1: to a nine to five. And I have empathy for that,

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Speaker 1: especially as someone who does community organizing. And I mean

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Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of sacrifice. I know

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of sacrifice in the types of things

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Speaker 1: that I do, and there's also a lot of privilege

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Speaker 1: in the fact that I even have community and loved

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Speaker 1: ones who help me to pay my rent so that

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Speaker 1: I can do this kind of organizing without worrying about

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Speaker 1: not having shelter. And it's like we were saying before we,

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Speaker 1: you know, started the recording, like I take it very

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Speaker 1: seriously that I need to rest and I need to

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Speaker 1: feed myself, and I need to take care of myself

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Speaker 1: because rest is not resistance, but me getting the rest

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Speaker 1: that I need and the care that I need allows

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Speaker 1: me to resist in a way that helps someone else

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Speaker 1: to get free. And that's like what we all need

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Speaker 1: to be doing for each other.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say this because you know, there used

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Speaker 2: to be a thing people would do whatever there is

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Speaker 2: a large social upheaple. It was called the occupation of

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Speaker 2: the factories. Yeah, you could go read Mellatesta writing about

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Speaker 2: it in like nineteen twenty one, very old thing. See,

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Speaker 2: the Seattle General Strike was like the most famous example

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Speaker 2: people doing this in the US. But it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so there's some shit going on, we need to stop

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Speaker 2: something from happening. So we are going to take over

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Speaker 2: our workplaces and run the parts of it that need

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Speaker 2: to be run so that people could get food, and

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Speaker 2: then otherwise we're not and otherwise we're gonna cant told you.

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Speaker 1: Don't actually jump hoped to go to your line.

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Speaker 2: To buy the people in Seattle. Those people didn't know

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Speaker 2: what a television was. Wow, And they were able to

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Speaker 2: do this. If you showed one of the people in

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Speaker 2: like in like the Seattle, like nineteen nineteen general strikes,

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Speaker 2: people who did this, like if you showed them a computer,

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Speaker 2: they would have a heart attack. And they did this well.

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Speaker 2: So I believe that all of you you have seen

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Speaker 2: things that would have obliterated these people's minds.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's I have like a slightly different take. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they like a hot take or a

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Speaker 1: cold take or a loopworm take. But my perspective is

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Speaker 1: one who said that you just have to go to

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Speaker 1: your nine to five while you watch all of this happen.

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Speaker 1: Who said that you are saying, oh, I have to

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Speaker 1: do that, No one is actually making you do that.

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Speaker 1: The consequences of that are that if you don't go

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Speaker 1: to your nine to five or you take a sick

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Speaker 1: day or something. You might get fired, and you might

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Speaker 1: be in a similarly vulnerable position to someone whose life

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Speaker 1: is already on the line. But if we all stood

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Speaker 1: in solidarity with each other, that would be less dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Like if we chose each other over capitalism, that would

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Speaker 1: be so radical. But that's my take.

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Speaker 2: There are not enough cops to evict us all. There

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Speaker 2: simply aren't.

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Speaker 1: There, really just aren't. I think that people forget or

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Speaker 1: conveniently compartmentalize the truth that we as a collective, when

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Speaker 1: we band together, when we refuse to participate in individualism

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Speaker 1: the ways that they want us to, we are so powerful.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that scares people because that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of responsibility. But again, that's really only so much

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Speaker 1: responsibility if you see yourself as an individual as opposed

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Speaker 1: to part of a collective. If you see yourself as

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Speaker 1: bearing a piece of responsibility as part of a collective,

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Speaker 1: the same way that ants all move in a colony

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Speaker 1: and carry like a piece of bread together, maybe you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't feel so much overwhelmed because you would understand that

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Speaker 1: we are in this together. And I think that we

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Speaker 1: really owe that to each other. To reframe that in

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Speaker 1: our minds and in our nervous systems as well, so

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Speaker 1: that we can just like maybe shut up and show up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, speaking of showing up, Okay, Yeah, we're locking

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Speaker 2: back on share. We're locking in, We're locking the fucking

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Speaker 2: we can do this, I believe in us. So going back,

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Speaker 2: I guess from the sort of macro perspective to the

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Speaker 2: micro individual perspective of yeah, the exact specific ways that

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Speaker 2: one individual person gets treated.

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Speaker 1: Totally, so sure, locking back into what is happening on

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Speaker 1: a more micro level, giving an example of how Ice

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Speaker 1: is dehumanizing immigrants in attention whether they are here quote

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Speaker 1: unquote illegally or not. Alberto is not here illegally, Okay,

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Speaker 1: he's going through the asylum process. When the immigrant attorneys

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Speaker 1: on our organizing teams spoke with Alberto and specifically asked

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Speaker 1: about his conditions at Fake County, he said that, and

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Speaker 1: granted this I believe was some him in the last week.

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Speaker 1: I think they haven't spoken to him in maybe a week.

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Speaker 1: It's been hard too. But when they asked about his conditions,

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Speaker 1: he said that he had all the basics, is now

436
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: being given three meals a day and was at least

437
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: at that point being administered medication. We don't have very

438
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: good context and accurate data on how often that's actually

439
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: been happening. He has a severe seizure disorder, and he

440
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: requires medication to be administered at least I think twice

441
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: a day, and even one missed dose can be fatal.

442
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: It's been a while since they've been able to talk.

443
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: I do know that he checks in with his family

444
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: and a family friend every morning, only briefly. I spoke

445
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: to them just before this call to get any updated information.

446
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: There was a day this week where he didn't act

447
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, and we were all really worried,

448
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: and we had no idea what that meant. It turns

449
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: out that the WiFi just was down. But oh my god,

450
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: how horrifying. Every day I wake up and I just

451
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's still alive. And he is

452
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: only one of many many immigrants that I have worked

453
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: on cases for and that I am trying to bring

454
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: attention to. And it's terrifying to never know if he's

455
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: going to be one of the many many people who

456
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: have died in there, because it's been weeks or months

457
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: or a year. Yeah, and so you know, as far

458
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 1: as as conditions go, we don't have a lot of

459
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: information about his specific condition. We know that he has

460
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: been struggling. We know that it's been very hard on

461
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: his health. It would be hard on anyone's health, whether

462
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: they were disabled or sick or not, because the conditions

463
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: are inhumane. We do know as reported by other clients

464
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: of the immigration attorneys on our team. We know that

465
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: at different attention centers, many have told her that it's

466
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: very cold. One who is with the gen pop and

467
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: could only speak with her from a tablet in the

468
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: room while other detainees were around. Several have told her

469
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: that they were denied access to nurses and medical care

470
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: when they had headaches or a sore throat. I also

471
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: want to tie this back to the global pandemic. We've

472
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: seen a lot of people die of COVID or other

473
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: illnesses well in detention. This is a public health issue.

474
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: This is a public health and safety issue. Just the

475
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: same way that people who are in prisons are treated

476
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: poorly and not given the medical care they need, and

477
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: that faulty is part of the point. Immigrants and detention

478
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: are also complete deprived of medical care that they need,

479
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: and again that would be really dangerous for anyone, but

480
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: for Albero, he has a severe seizure disorder, Like one

481
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: thing could go wrong and he would be done. Yeah,

482
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: like his life hangs in the balance. There's another client

483
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: she has with castro intestinal problem has told her that

484
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: they basically can't eat anything because the food quality is

485
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: so poor and coupled with their condition, they just vomit

486
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: and have diarrhea constantly. This is what is happening in

487
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: ice attention facilities. They are just completely overrun with these

488
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: public health and safety disasters and they don't have the

489
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: care or attention because those conditions happening are orchestrated.

490
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they don't give a shit or they're orchestrated.

491
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: They're a part of the cool. They don't care. Yeah,

492
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: what's worse is they do care, but they care about

493
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: creating the suffering.

494
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's like like for them, it's like therese

495
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: people's ultimate goal is to not have non white people

496
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: in the US. Right you could you can look at like,

497
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: you know, Stephen Miller's wife, like, yeah, last week was

498
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: like posting shit about what will happen when they deport

499
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: a hundred million Americans.

500
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, right, they want enough, no estate, absolutely.

501
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: No, like they and they don't. It doesn't really matter

502
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: to them, Like you know, it's it's kind of bad

503
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: PR if people die in their in their fucking camps.

504
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: But they don't give gives. These people don't give a

505
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: shit whether these people die or like are sent away.

506
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: Like they don't fucking care, like they care about hurting people.

507
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: They don't care where they live or die.

508
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: They don't care about bad PR either to an extent,

509
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, this is what the show

510
00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: is about. Authoritarian regimes and and fascism isout control. Yeah,

511
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean sure, I guess maybe if there's enough bad

512
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: PR and they can't literally control people on the streets

513
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: who are overtaking the situation and fighting back because they've

514
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: gotten bad PR, that's a problem. But in and of itself,

515
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: I don't really know if they care about the bad PR.

516
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: They should care about the results of the bad PR,

517
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: which is why we should all keep giving them bad PR.

518
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of that. There are so many

519
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: things that have happened since the escalation in Minneapolis last

520
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: week where Renee and Good was shot and killed. Okay,

521
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: I was collecting notes before this call, and I'd already

522
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 1: had many, and then when I was collecting notes just

523
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: from today alone, I was like, oh my god, twenty

524
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: things have happened. We've found out in the last day alone.

525
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: There was a huge piece published in Slate that ICE

526
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: is doing zero background checks on their applicants. A journalist

527
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: got officially hired despite being a prominent person who speaks

528
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: about leftism online. They failed the drug tests, They didn't

529
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: even complete all the proper paperwork. ICE has literally no

530
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: idea who they're hiring, and they don't care because they'll

531
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: take anyone who is willing to terrorize people. Yeah, like

532
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: that's going to cause it's already causing a lot of

533
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: community ruptors. It's going to ruin communities. And the reality

534
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: is they don't care if it does, because it's actually

535
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: the point. If this were about accuracy or a real

536
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: quote unquote justice or Americans who are you know, quote

537
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: unquote being wronged by immigrants or whatever their narrative is,

538
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: they would have a vetting process. They would want the

539
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: best of the best. But they don't because it's just

540
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: about annihilation and control.

541
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and the other part of that too, If

542
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: you want to look at the sort of more positive

543
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: angle of it is, Like part of what's going on

544
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: here is that they can't find enough people who want

545
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: to commit an ethnic cleansing.

546
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: Here's my thing, I'm little concerned that's not true. They

547
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: are incentivizing people to betray their values, and part of

548
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: what's going on in this country is that people are

549
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: out of work. People need to stay that in house.

550
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's the thing, Like, if they were able

551
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: to really easily like recruit those people into doing this,

552
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: then they wouldn't be continuously upping the bonus rates, and

553
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be trying to like store cops from other agencies. Like,

554
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: I think they seem to be having legitimate problems, even

555
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: in a shitty job market, and.

556
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: We should give them more. I think we should give

557
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: them more. I think that we should incentivize. I personally

558
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: would love to figure out how to incentivize ice agents

559
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: to quit their jobs. Like, I don't know what I

560
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: have to do. Maybe I'll gather my sex worker friends

561
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: to organize some kind of campaign. I don't I don't know,

562
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: I don't know.

563
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: Well, you can you just just make their lives miserable

564
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: until they quit, Like that's the that's the easy sure.

565
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I and by the way, I say sex

566
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: worker friends specifically because doms are tough and they would

567
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: bully ice agents to no end. And I say this

568
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: of the former DOB.

569
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: I believe in US. I believe in US. We can.

570
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: We can, We can make these people's lives hell. We

571
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: could do this.

572
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: I really think that if we take collective action and

573
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: we all take stock of what are my skills and

574
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: then use that to put the pressure on the people

575
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: who are making this terror possible, I think that we can.

576
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: I think we can take them all down. Yeah. I

577
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: think that we truly could convince people to quit if

578
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: we make their lives a living hell. Do not let

579
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: them stay at hotels, do not let them buy groceries,

580
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: don't let them show their faces anywhere in public. Okay.

581
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: This is also another thing that happened today. I think

582
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: it was there was the largest data breach ever. There

583
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: was a data breach today or yesterday that was forty

584
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: five hundred names got leaked YEP with info in them,

585
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: so they can't be anonymous. We have to take that

586
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: and run with it.

587
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, legal disclaimer, if we are not advocating legal

588
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: actions here, we are simply not doing this.

589
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm just saying anything is possible if you believe.

590
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, however, Comma, what other people do with this data

591
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: is or something we can really control it exists?

592
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I actually think it would be a shame

593
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: if we did something with that data.

594
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, now, speaking of doing things with our data,

595
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was probably supposed to have taken

596
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: like two at breaks right now, but fuck it, we're gonna.

597
00:35:49,880 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: We're doing one here. I believe in us, and we

598
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: are back now. One of the bleak things something that

599
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: you want to talk about, Elie, is that the conditions

600
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: that we're seeing here are things that have already killed people,

601
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: and the danger here compounds the more risk you're at,

602
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: the more you know. For a few again, but to

603
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: take it to take a completely non abstract example, if

604
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,439
Speaker 2: you need seizure meds twice a day when you might die,

605
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: the odds of terrible stuff happening to you increases. But yeah,

606
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: can we talk a bit about the other people who

607
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: this has already fucking happened to.

608
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's so many, and we can't name

609
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: them all because we don't know all of their names,

610
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: because again, we don't have all the proper data, we

611
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: only know some things. But that's why we're part of

612
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: a big part of this campaign has been asking people

613
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: to put pressure on congress people to rely Alberto, to

614
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: show that we're not going to give up on him

615
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: the way that other people have just been given up

616
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: on and died in detention, and that we're going to

617
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: work relentlessly to get him out because he matters. But

618
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, as ICE escalates its attainments across the country

619
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: and in the Midwest, specifically in Ohio and Minnesota and

620
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 1: all these places Chicago, Minneapolis, Columbus, what happens to him,

621
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: so that's a precedent for others, the same way that

622
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: what's been happening to other immigrants has set the precedent

623
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: that this is going to keep happening, you know, showing

624
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: that ICE can't just take someone and disappear them and

625
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: get away with it really matters for everyone else. People

626
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: are watching for every immigrant detained recently and everything that

627
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: ICE is growing out and this is God, the I

628
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: don't even know, I've lost track because the numbers keep

629
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: changing and growing. I wanted to say that the second

630
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: person that we know of that that Renee was the

631
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: second person that we we knew of that Ice had

632
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: murdered since New Year's Eve. But it wouldn't be surprising

633
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: if there are, you know, so many. There's just so

634
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: many immigrants who have died in Pestid and are currently

635
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: dying in Pusidi, which is what we're trying to prevent.

636
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: For Alberto, and like in La I still keep Porter

637
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: in his own home. Meanwhile, you know, in Chicago or

638
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: now I guess Indiana, because that's where they're keeping him.

639
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: They're violating and detaining families like Alberto's who have done

640
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: nothing to deserve this treatment. We saw a forty four

641
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: year old woman, Marie Ange Blaze from Haiti who died

642
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: in a US ice facility two or three weeks ago

643
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: after being detained since February of twenty twenty five, I believe,

644
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: who was captured and taken into pustody at an airport

645
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: outside of US territories. And you know, once again showing

646
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: isis lack of regard for the law, just total lawlessness.

647
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 1: She was transferred to Louisiana and then somewhere else where

648
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: she died after vocalizing trust pain and as far as

649
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: I know, she didn't go in with the disability, didn't

650
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: go in with health condition, but the conditions are so

651
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: horrifying there that that is just to be expected, which

652
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: is terrible, and this dangerous pattern can't continue to unfold.

653
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: We don't want this to be Albero and his family's reality,

654
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: nor any immigrants living nightmare. You know, like this is

655
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: such a community issue across the world, Like every one

656
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: of the people connected to anyone who has died in

657
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: ice attention is impacted for the rest of their life

658
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: by this, you know, Like it's what I was saying

659
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 1: when I said, people who have immigrant family, we can't

660
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: just go about business as usual. Every day I wake

661
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: up and I don't know if something is going to

662
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: happen to one or all of my loved ones who

663
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: might be targeted by virtue of having dark skin, which

664
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: is not a crime, but in America we're trying to

665
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: make it one. And like again, we don't want this

666
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: to happen to Albero. He's a community member. Everyone in

667
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: the community is saddened. He's a father, he is an uncle,

668
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: he is a husband. His wife is so upset and

669
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: so worried and doesn't understand why this is happening because

670
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: to her. He is a man who goes to work

671
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: day and night to help his family, to provide for

672
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: his family, and there just is absolutely no reason for

673
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: him to be in there. And she was originally in

674
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: detention too, they were both detained, but they let her out,

675
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: and that also feels like part of the cruelty, you know,

676
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: part of the cruelty, and the conditions of dying in

677
00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: ice custody are also rooted in being separated from hair, Yeah,

678
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: and love. They let her out, you know, probably we

679
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: don't know, We have no idea why. We can't begin

680
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: to imagine, our guess, but it probably has something to

681
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: do with separating them, because it makes the experience more expruciating.

682
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, as as bleak as the situation is,

683
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 2: and it's really really fucking bad, we do in terms

684
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: of being able to turn this a try to save

685
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: one person's life and be use this as a precedent

686
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: we can use to fucking try to get other people out.

687
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: There is a legal advantage we have here that we

688
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: don't in most places, which is that, Yeah, as we

689
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: were talking about earlier, this stop was so illegal. They

690
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: literally did a whole bunch of things that they were

691
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: specifically ordered by a judge not to do yes, and

692
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: that gives us, That gives us a little bit of

693
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: hope in a situation where it allows us to put

694
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: pressure in ways that normally, like would be very very

695
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: difficult to see. Can you eat a bit more about.

696
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: That the NAVA consent decree.

697
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like or how it can be deployed here?

698
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so right, there was nothing remotely legal

699
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: about what they did. The NAVA Consent decree that exists

700
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: in Chicago specifically, you know, limits ICE's ability to carry

701
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: out warrantless arrests and vehicle stops. They require predetermined fallable cause,

702
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: with the most recent rulings enforcing that despite constant violations

703
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: by ICE. But you know, groups like the National Immigrant

704
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: Justice Center used that to successfully challenge those violations, leading

705
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: to potential releases and actual releases for people who have

706
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: been detained and orders for officers being retrained.

707
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: Which I mean, they're just gonna keep doing it, right,

708
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: But like they're just gonna.

709
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: Keep doing it. But you know what happened in Minneapolis,

710
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: for example, with Renee and Good they got in trouble.

711
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: Actually the officers had something sent to them to remind

712
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,959
Speaker 1: them like, hey, so you actually like can't do things

713
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: the way that you did, and things like the NAVI

714
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: consent decree, right, they cause problems because you can wave

715
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: around a paper and say, hey, like you can't do this,

716
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: and like is it kind of as fake as the

717
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: constitution in some ways? Yeah, like they kind of don't

718
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: care about it. Yeah, but it is a tool that

719
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: can be used by lawyers like the wonderful immigration lawyers

720
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: that we have on our team, and we have Kala

721
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: and and who are or the immigration attorneys helping Alberto

722
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,959
Speaker 1: and his wife, and they can use that like they've

723
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: filed a habeast and they can use all of this

724
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: evidence of how they were illegally detained and violated without

725
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: any grounds to push back and say you need to

726
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: release him immediately.

727
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 2: The piece of paper for the judge does give us

728
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 2: a little bit of openings here. And could you explain

729
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 2: to people, like what you know what people listening to

730
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: the show right now can do to help here?

731
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would say two folds. If we

732
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: are looking at Alberto's case and his family's case, there

733
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: is a crowd fund that they can donate to. I

734
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: can send you the link that you can share.

735
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will link in the description.

736
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: We really need people to donate to that. Again, Renee

737
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: and Good was able to her wife was able to

738
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: raise one point four million dollars in a day, and well,

739
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: I am hoping and have faith that they will redistribute

740
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: that to other people in need who are impacted by

741
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: situations like this. It doesn't really feel great to see

742
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: white people get all that money when we can't even

743
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: push past fourteen thousand dollars for Albero. So we really

744
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: need people to donate. There is also a change dot

745
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: org petition for people to sign. We have a few

746
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: thousand people who have signed it, but we need more,

747
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: asking for Congress to pressure Ice to release him. This

748
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: would also be monumental for other immigrants and attention. Okay,

749
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: if we can use this as a case study, we

750
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: know what we can get done through people power, through

751
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 1: sheer will, and through not allowing things to just fall

752
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: through the cracks of social media because you're too busy

753
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: doom scrolling. That being said, what people can also do

754
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: is they can post. I mean and I think that

755
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: people should doom scroll less if it means that their

756
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: nervous systems will be more regulated so that they can

757
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: go up to defend community members and protect community members.

758
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: But if what you have is your phone in bed

759
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: and you're scrolling post there, let people know what is happening.

760
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: Refuse to be silent, Refuse to just go about your

761
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: day business as usual. Talk about things. Let them know

762
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: that people see what's happening and they're paying attention. And

763
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: we are not going to just let people be disappeared

764
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: or killed and die in detention. We are not going

765
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: to abandon vulnerable people. I every single one of us

766
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: as the opportunity to use our voice. You don't have

767
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: to be me, you don't have to be a well

768
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: known who has large platforms. Every single one of us

769
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 1: has a community that we can activate at any time.

770
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: You text five people and tell them about something that

771
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: is being done to someone, and they text five people,

772
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: and they text five people. That's the entire world. Baby, Like,

773
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: we got this shit.

774
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 2: I believe we can appropriate purrabids, keep practics to help people.

775
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: I believe in us.

776
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: Pete Seeger said, solidarity forever, Okay. I believe that we

777
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: will win. If what you do is make memes, make

778
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 1: a meme, make a copy, pasta make a copy pasta

779
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: and send it to people like if your method is

780
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: shit posting short, take whatever you got and find a

781
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: way to spread the news, and you know, do it

782
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: for other immigrants to you know, do it for do

783
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: it for whoever. But the more you speak out, the

784
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: the more you make it possible for other people to

785
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: speak out because they realize they're not going to be

786
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: the only ones even if they're afraid to say something.

787
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's harder to crack down on everyone.

788
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: Sure.

789
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 4: And also the more you show people like I actually

790
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 4: have no idea if he knows how much support he has,

791
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 4: I would love for him to know that so that

792
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 4: it helps him to get through.

793
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: I know he knows that he has his family's support,

794
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: and that's a lot. That's more than enough. But I

795
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: would also, you know, love for people to just really

796
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: like hair for immigrants and non white people in general

797
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: right now who are on this soil that we call,

798
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, the land of the United States, because basically,

799
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: anyone who is not white right now is terrified of

800
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: what might happen to them if they're on the wrong

801
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: street at the wrong time, and they're rolling out these

802
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: terror campaigns in Oregon and Columbus and Minneapolis and Chicago

803
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: and New York. I knew they were going to escalate

804
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: things in New York after Zoron took office, because it's

805
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: a great excuse. Everyone is terrified right now, and the

806
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: best thing that you can do is show up every

807
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: day and be human to each other. Buy someone a coffee,

808
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: like offer to just listen to a non white person

809
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: in your life, take an anti racism course, show up

810
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: as a human being who cares about other human beings,

811
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: because that is the thing that matters most when I

812
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: think about stories that we have from way back in history,

813
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 1: like all just flag you know Anne Frank, because that's

814
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: the one that everyone knows. The thing that mattered for her,

815
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: the thing that kept her alive for longer than she

816
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: could have maybe been alive, is people being human to

817
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: each other. Like, I think that's such an underrated way

818
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: to show up, and we take it for granted every

819
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: day because we don't consider always how our smallest actions

820
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: impact each other. And the truth is that your smallest

821
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: actions could be the difference between someone losing their life

822
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: or not.

823
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to close this by

824
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: doing as this tradition about one in every twelve episodes,

825
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: I do answer something from the fucking end darnamic manifesto. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

826
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: no this he has this lie he because remember that

827
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: the frontiers of the rebellion is everywhere, and even the

828
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: smallest act if insurrection pushes our lines forward, and it does, right,

829
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 2: it's impossible to know until it happens what the single

830
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: push them makes the damn break is going to be.

831
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: But it will be something, yeah, And it is literally

832
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: impossible to tell what it's going to be until you

833
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: know the The the only way you can find out

834
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: if the action that you are taking is going to

835
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: be the one that knocks everything over is by doing it.

836
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: So go do.

837
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, we owe each other everything. And I'm gonna

838
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something kind of silly because I am

839
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: who I am. But this is one of my favorite

840
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: songs in the world. And this is a Shrek reference.

841
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: Oh my God, All Star.

842
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: By smash Mouth, Like you know all flick Glitters' gold

843
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: only shooting Stars, break the mold, You'll never know if

844
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: you don't go, you'll never shine if you don't go

845
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: like that, it's a directive. That's a directive. I think

846
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 1: we should listen to smash Mouth and we should try

847
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: We should just try it for each other. I take

848
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: that song very serious.

849
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: You know, I really, really truly. When I was planning

850
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: this episode, like a week ago, it did not think

851
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: it was going to end with and Or and Shrek.

852
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,479
Speaker 2: But you know, this is why you could never look.

853
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: You never know how things are going to go, and

854
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: sometimes they end well. Yeah, Alie, do you have anything

855
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: else that you want to make sure people know and

856
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: where can people find you?

857
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't have anything else that I think people should know.

858
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: People can find me on Instagram at liter ly e

859
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: l I t e r e l l y like

860
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: literally but with my name.

861
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: E ll y incredible. Well we'll have this in the

862
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:48,439
Speaker 2: description too.

863
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: Great. That's when my username everywhere on social media since

864
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: I was fifteen, so it's been sixteen years. People are

865
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: always like, how did you get that user name gil

866
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: gil baby? You had to you had to be on

867
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: on Twitter as a as a kid. But yeah, that's

868
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: that's It's my same use surname everywhere. I have a

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00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: newsletter that you could find on my social media where

870
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: I write about community care and what we owe to

871
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: each other. I'm way less concerned about people being able

872
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: to find me except to just you know, go go

873
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: share the campaigns that I've shared on my cage for

874
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: Alberto and other immigrants, because I am constantly sharing things.

875
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: If you know, this helps me to get more of

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00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: a platform so that people share more of the crucial

877
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: campaigns that I share, that is great. My main concern

878
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: is I don't need to be seen or heard or

879
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: listened to any more than is necessary to get people

880
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: to take action to help more vulnerable people than me.

881
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: But if people also want to listen to things I

882
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: have to say, or go for it. I quote mash

883
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: Mouth a lot, and I'm very gay.

884
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 2: We love to see it. Okay, this has been It

885
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: could happen here a podcast done by the girl who

886
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 2: posted ice must be destroyed after every single post for

887
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: eight goddamn years. And now we're here, so let's go fight.

888
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: And now we're here and for its ebooks, everything happens

889
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: so much.

890
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: Yes, it could happen.

891
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 5: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

892
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 5: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia

893
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 5: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

894
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

895
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts.

896
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 5: You can now find sources for it could happen here,

897
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 5: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.