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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And in this episode, I'm just going to preface it's

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Speaker 2: going to be what I would call interesting.

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Speaker 1: It was originally going to.

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Speaker 2: Be an unhappy hour and then it ballooned into something

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Speaker 2: way too long for that. I am drinking wine though,

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Speaker 2: because this makes me really sad, and I've been putting

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Speaker 2: off talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we did for a long time, I.

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Speaker 2: Originally. So today we're talking about when a fandom hurts you.

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Speaker 2: And we're not talking about toxic fandom, which can hurt

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Speaker 2: you absolutely. We're not talking about when a property looking

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Speaker 2: at you Star Wars continues to make choices that hurt

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Speaker 2: you storyline wise. We're talking about like when you have

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Speaker 2: to leave because it's just hurting so badly. And this

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Speaker 2: is about Harry Potter and JK Rowling. So with that,

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Speaker 2: there is a content warning for suicidality and transphobia. But

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Speaker 2: this is because it was originally going to be an

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Speaker 2: unhappy hour. I just want to stress, like, this is

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Speaker 2: very much my personal how I've been dealing with this.

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Speaker 2: This is not prescriptive. Everyone is different, and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to talk about it. When we did, Joey came on

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Speaker 2: and did a great episode about kind of the timeline

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Speaker 2: of JK Rowling's transphobia and the damage that it's done.

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Speaker 2: But because that episode was long, we didn't get to

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Speaker 2: talk about the emotional part of it, which I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of people leave out of this conversation. I

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Speaker 2: think there are a couple of reasons for why they

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Speaker 2: do that. But again, yes, this is very much like

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Speaker 2: me talking me coming from a very personal place. So

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Speaker 2: I just want to make that one thousand percent clear

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Speaker 2: before we get into this. This is a very personal thing.

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Speaker 2: It is not our typical like researched I have a

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Speaker 2: lot of research about this just in my brain, but

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like a researched episode.

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Speaker 3: I think I will say with this, for anyone who

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Speaker 3: was a fan and a true fan, like I really

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Speaker 3: liked it, I wasn't emotionally attached to it. So I

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Speaker 3: don't I get it, and I have a very very

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Speaker 3: very set opinion because I wasn't emotionally attached to it.

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Speaker 3: But people who are, and we know there's tons and

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Speaker 3: tons of people who are and were, it's gonna fall

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Speaker 3: into being controversial no matter what, And it's going to

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Speaker 3: be a heavy topic, unfortunately, because that's what happens when

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Speaker 3: you fall in love with something so hard and identify

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Speaker 3: with it. That's the part you identify with it so much,

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Speaker 3: and it feels like you've broken a part of your identity. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's kind of cause a crisis. And this is what

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Speaker 3: this is about.

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Speaker 2: It is it is, And I'm mostly talking about it

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Speaker 2: because I have a big group of friends that still

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Speaker 2: enjoys Harry Potter fan fiction. Like they're very clear they

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Speaker 2: don't support her monetarily.

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Speaker 3: And.

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking about, like, but I feel like

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Speaker 2: there's this whole emotional part we're just not talking about,

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Speaker 2: like what you're saying, Samantha, of like when you someone

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Speaker 2: described it to me the other day when I was

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Speaker 2: kind of complaining about it, and she was like, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like he broke up with an abusive X and

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Speaker 2: everyone's still hanging out with that person and you're kind

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Speaker 2: of taking it personally even if that's not what's happening

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Speaker 2: at all. But yeah, it does feel it has a

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Speaker 2: lot of emotions tied into it. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: do identify it with it really hard, and I think

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Speaker 2: that means that we get defensive when we have these

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Speaker 2: conversations that don't have perfect answers, Like there's not a

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Speaker 2: I don't have some solution here I'm going to present.

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Speaker 1: I would say, don't support her financially, but I don't

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Speaker 1: have a solution.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, like, I'm going to Universal in October, and

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Speaker 2: that was one of the first things I thought was

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Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? And I was like researching

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Speaker 2: does she get this money? Like what am I going

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Speaker 2: to do about this Harry Potter part of the Universal Park?

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Speaker 2: And just like if my friends want to go, am

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Speaker 2: I gonna like not go?

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Speaker 1: Like what am I? What am I gonna do?

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Speaker 3: It? Wouldn't it be that you just shouldn't buy things

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Speaker 3: there because it's a part of the Universal pay already

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Speaker 3: and she probably already gets a chunk of that anyway

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Speaker 3: just having it there, but like to go in there

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Speaker 3: and then buy something that would be the profit. So

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Speaker 3: no butter beer for you.

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Speaker 2: I'll make my own damn butter beer, but I probably

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Speaker 2: won't because it makes me so sad now, But that's

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Speaker 2: kind of the point, is I don't this episode. I'm

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Speaker 2: embarrassed by it, but I might cry. I'm probably gonna

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Speaker 2: get emotional. I know it sounds silly to some of you.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to explain why, but like, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to if you can enjoy it without supporting her, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be the person that comes in and

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Speaker 2: ruins that for you. I'm actually kind of jealous of you.

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Speaker 2: One does not make better than the other because I

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Speaker 2: really don't have any judgment. We're all different mental gymnastics

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Speaker 2: and how we deal with these things. But one thing

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Speaker 2: that I think has really hung me up on this

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Speaker 2: conversation is my dad was kind of controlling about what

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Speaker 2: you could enjoy based on what he enjoyed, And so

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Speaker 2: I think I've gotten really in my head about I

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Speaker 2: don't want to ruin it for other people. But it

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Speaker 2: also means I'm not explaining to other people how much

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Speaker 2: it kind of hurts me, right, So it's just kind

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Speaker 2: of it's built up. So I'm worried if I go

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Speaker 2: and don't buy something there, I'll still just be a

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Speaker 2: miserable person to be around. But also if I leave,

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Speaker 2: then that's gonna make them feel bad.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know.

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Speaker 2: What the good solution is right right, And speaking of

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Speaker 2: like to be clear, I don't have great coping mechanisms.

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Speaker 2: I do really use media as an escape. I use

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Speaker 2: it to cope with trauma. So when I do lose that,

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Speaker 2: it is hurtful, which I don't think is necessarily unhealthy,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like I lean into things so hard,

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Speaker 2: and again maybe that's not unhealthy either.

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Speaker 1: But that means it hurts a lot.

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Speaker 2: It hurts like a lot, and it's just it's sort

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Speaker 2: of embarrassing because it feels trivial. I know there's so

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Speaker 2: many bigger problems in the world, but it's it is

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Speaker 2: something you use because of those bigger problems, like you

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Speaker 2: use it, and I think it impacts a lot more

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Speaker 2: than people realize, especially people who don't do this, who don't,

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Speaker 2: like you said, maybe aren't attached to it, Like maybe

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Speaker 2: you like it, but you're kind of like eh, So

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Speaker 2: when you lose it, it's sort of like, oh, that's sad,

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Speaker 2: But there are people who do, and I know people

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Speaker 2: still continue to use it to cope even knowing about

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Speaker 2: her but not supporting her. And I totally get that,

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Speaker 2: I really do. But that's that's kind of the what

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Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about, because I did love it

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Speaker 2: so much like if you had told me, like a

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Speaker 2: decade ago, I would have laughed in your face and

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Speaker 2: been offended if you'd said, like, it's not gonna be

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Speaker 2: part of your life anymore. And it might be surprising

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Speaker 2: to hear that, because like, if you've been listening to

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Speaker 2: me on the show, you might think, like, oh, she'd

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Speaker 2: been more likely to give up Harry Potter than Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: That is not true.

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Speaker 2: In fact, one of the reasons I'm so into Star

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Speaker 2: Wars right now is because I have always loved it,

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Speaker 2: but then the pandemic happened and I lost Harry Potter,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh God, I gotta find something

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Speaker 2: to fill that space.

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Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate that it hurts so much.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't it.

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Speaker 3: So all right, so let's go ahead and put a

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Speaker 3: cap on this. Because you feel things this deeply, you

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Speaker 3: should realize and validate that because it was a big

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Speaker 3: part of your life, and to call it dumb or

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Speaker 3: to call it something and try to squash it it

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Speaker 3: makes it worse. You're trying to invalidate yourself when you

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Speaker 3: know it's a lie, so you're lying to yourself and

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Speaker 3: it's just gonna trigger so many things so go ahead

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Speaker 3: and stop because this is lost and no matter what,

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Speaker 3: for you, loss is significant and for you who don't mourn, well,

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Speaker 3: this is going to be a greater impact because you

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Speaker 3: try to ignore it. Which, by the way, sharing with

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Speaker 3: our listeners is a beautiful and vulnerable thing and I

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Speaker 3: hope they understand and you understand how big of a

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Speaker 3: deal this is. So no matter what, this episode with

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Speaker 3: you being heartbroken makes sense and it's okay. And you

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Speaker 3: got to figure out how to deal with that somehow

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Speaker 3: because it's not going away. So with that, and as

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Speaker 3: much as you want to try to replace it, that

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Speaker 3: doesn't work no matter what, because the initial emotions is

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Speaker 3: something that you're going to long for always because you

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Speaker 3: can never replace that. And again with the first love

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Speaker 3: is something new and it's something that is even if

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Speaker 3: you find any love, it's still something different. So it's okay,

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Speaker 3: it's not dumb. Don't say that, because this is very

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Speaker 3: valid and just because not everyone understands it doesn't change

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Speaker 3: anything because there's a lot more people who do. So

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Speaker 3: deep bruh, let's put that to the side. Don't say that,

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Speaker 3: and listeners, you feeling that is okay too?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's just it does feel like grieving,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to talk about that more about why

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Speaker 2: that is. But I think also a part of it

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Speaker 2: is I really did grow.

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Speaker 1: Up with it.

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Speaker 2: I know it sounds kind of trite, but I really did,

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Speaker 2: Like it's a long time to love something.

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Speaker 1: It's a long time.

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Speaker 2: I think I read the first book when I was nine,

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Speaker 2: and it was just a big part of my life.

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Speaker 2: But it was how I met friends, Like some of

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Speaker 2: my closest friendships was made over over this, and I

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Speaker 2: was kind of mocked for it because I feel like

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Speaker 2: Harry Potter eventually achieved a mainstream acceptance, but for a

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Speaker 2: while sort of seen is like you that's sort of silly,

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Speaker 2: like don't talk. That's embarrassing, especially as you got older.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm really defended it, like I stood.

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Speaker 1: Up for it. It was a part of my identity.

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Speaker 2: It was the version of Star Wars now where like

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Speaker 2: if you didn't know what to get me, we would

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Speaker 2: just give me something in that realm and I would

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Speaker 2: be very happy. And I would say that she was

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Speaker 2: a feminist. I would say, like, no, she's out there

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Speaker 2: like doing this good thing. And so it's sort of

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Speaker 2: embarrassing in that sense too, because some people, and I

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Speaker 2: know I know what they mean, but some people would

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Speaker 2: be like, I guess that was right and it was.

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Speaker 1: Bad all along. I'm like, that does not help me.

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Speaker 1: I get what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: But the only people I know who stood that was

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Speaker 3: bad all along was the one who would say, is witchcraft, yeah, yes,

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Speaker 3: which was my parents, So it would hate it more

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Speaker 3: because they were feminists. So because she is, she's a turf.

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Speaker 3: We know that. Yes, they think themselves feminists, but they

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Speaker 3: exclude so.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we're we're gonna talk about that too, because

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Speaker 2: that's That's one of the things that hurts the most

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Speaker 2: I think is that I did think this about her,

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Speaker 2: and then she just is using that to hurt people

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Speaker 2: and convince people and normalize a thing that is just hate.

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Speaker 2: Some people have also argued I'm actually being sexist and

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Speaker 2: judging her harder.

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Speaker 1: I do not think so.

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Speaker 2: I do get that that happens sometimes, but I think

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Speaker 2: if you're calling yourself a feminist and then you're doing this,

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Speaker 2: then I don't. I don't think that's the same.

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Speaker 3: Right for me. I will say when I was before

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Speaker 3: all the big things happened, I would not watch with

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Speaker 3: Johnny Depp, so all the yeah stuff, I didn't watch

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Speaker 3: it and I still haven't. Yeah, because I'm sorry, Johnny

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Speaker 3: Depp is on my no list, and I know that

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Speaker 3: that's the whole thing, but whatever, I have a whole

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Speaker 3: no list and a lot of men on it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm with you, he's online as well now. But

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Speaker 2: I also think I kind of want to come. I

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Speaker 2: can do a whole episode on this. But I also

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Speaker 2: think there's this thing that's happening, or there's a nuance

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Speaker 2: between being a bad feminist but then just using that

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Speaker 2: as an excuse, like you can acknowledge and say like,

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Speaker 2: I like these things that are problematic, But there's a

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Speaker 2: difference between that and being like, oh, well, no one's

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Speaker 2: perfect when you're just when the not perfect is outright harmful,

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Speaker 2: Like it's a it's a nuance, it's a fine line.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like some people are just like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm not perfect, so they don't talk about it. They're

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Speaker 2: just like, well, yep, too bad, but we kind of

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Speaker 2: have to talk about it. Some people have also said

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Speaker 2: that they understand why she's cruel and callous because she's

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Speaker 2: dealt with so much from actual terrible people, Okay, but

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Speaker 2: this is happening with like people who love her and

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Speaker 2: are not trying like they are terrible fans. Don't get

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Speaker 2: me wrong, horrible fans, but this is coming from like

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Speaker 2: people who are like I want to love your work, Hey,

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Speaker 2: why are you doing this? Or what do you even

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Speaker 2: think about this? Sometimes like not even what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: And she's just hateful. I'm dismissive. And that's I hate

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Speaker 2: that too, because I would count myself in that of

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Speaker 2: you know, I'd never like attacked JK Rowling online, But

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Speaker 2: I just feel like she's so I'm getting wrapped up

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Speaker 2: in how she's talking about these people, these people being

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Speaker 2: the people she perceives is have targeted her, when I'm

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Speaker 2: really just like, no, you're hurting people, all.

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Speaker 3: Right when you see outright posts, Please don't do this.

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Speaker 3: My heart is breaking. I've leaned on you so hard.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the most like heartbreaking things that

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Speaker 3: you would attack who I am. And her response is

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Speaker 3: callous and cold and being like, well you're not a

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Speaker 3: woman or this, which is her responses to things, and

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Speaker 3: then being invalidating. It's one thing again to be like

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Speaker 3: criticized and to go back towards them, but to invalidate

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Speaker 3: a person's love for you, Wow, that's cold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, this is one of the thing

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Speaker 2: that bothers me because I have had disagreements with friends

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Speaker 2: about this, and it almost always boils down to like

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Speaker 2: the monetary part, which I do, I get, But the

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Speaker 2: thing is I supported her monetarily for a long time,

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Speaker 2: like the reason she's able to she keeps tweeting about like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll just watch my royalty checks. That's me Like that

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Speaker 2: monetary part. I am a part of it now, even

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Speaker 2: if I don't want to be. And so it's just

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Speaker 2: so infuriating when she does that, where it's like she's

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Speaker 2: being hurtful and cruel and to the people who did

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Speaker 2: provide those residuals that are allowing her to make these

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Speaker 2: very cruel comments.

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Speaker 1: It's messy.

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Speaker 2: Like I understand that it's messy, but that's one of

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Speaker 2: the things that I keep getting hung up on, is that.

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Speaker 1: I did support her quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: And speaking of this is not a gatekeepy fan competition,

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Speaker 2: because I think I feel like a lot of times

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Speaker 2: this devolves into who's the bigger fan, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think that's useful at all. But when I say I

289
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Speaker 2: was a fan, I was a fan, like I was

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Speaker 2: a huge fan, and now because of how she's behaved,

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Speaker 2: I can't even read fan fiction anymore because it's just

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Speaker 2: it just hurts, like it's the first thing I think.

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Speaker 1: It's the only thing I can think of, is like,

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Speaker 1: but she she.

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Speaker 2: Said this, or she did this, or she really kind

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Speaker 2: of hates a lot of people, and I might be

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Speaker 2: in that circle, like it's a very I can't do it.

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Speaker 1: And again that's a very personal thing. I know people

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Speaker 1: that can, but I can't. And I think one of

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Speaker 1: the arguments I've heard a lot is about fan fiction,

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Speaker 1: and it's in particular I know she's terrible, but these

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Speaker 1: characters mean too much to me, like oh, which I understand,

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Speaker 1: But I hate it when people say that because it

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Speaker 1: makes it implies that I didn't love them as much

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Speaker 1: as you did and that it didn't hurt, or that

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Speaker 1: it was easy, or that it was like a choice

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Speaker 1: I made, because I really didn't.

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Speaker 2: It just hurt too bad. I chose to stop supporting

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Speaker 2: her financially, but I didn't choose to let go or

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Speaker 2: be forced out of it, So it really riles me.

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Speaker 1: Also, people say.

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Speaker 2: That I do get it. I really honestly do. And

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Speaker 2: as we talked about in the episode, but Joey, this

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Speaker 2: situation with JK. Rowland Harry Potter is really unique. She

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Speaker 2: is at the heart of it, essentially, I like a

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00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,600
Speaker 2: lot of other decentralized entertainment like Star Wars, that's just

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Speaker 2: her thing, and she's the very public face of it.

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Speaker 2: And she's very publicly and very coolly and very mockingly

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Speaker 2: doing these things. And I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 2: people do like to whenever I bring this up, they

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Speaker 2: like to do what about is a like, well, what

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Speaker 2: do you think entertainment you like is not good either?

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Speaker 2: And all this stuff some people have even bought up,

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Speaker 2: like old timey books that are on her like school

325
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Speaker 2: booklist or like that is not the same look. I

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Speaker 2: don't have, Like I didn't personally see that out. There's

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Speaker 2: a difference between something happening in the eighteen hundreds, which

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Speaker 2: by all means, yes, let us call out how problematic

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Speaker 2: it was, versus someone in our current world like today,

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Speaker 2: maybe doing these things that are just impacting current politics.

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Speaker 2: As we've talked about in the episode of Joey and

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Uh, I literally did have a dream

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Speaker 2: that she had people stone me to death and laughed

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Speaker 2: while I died, like a week ago.

335
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Speaker 1: And this is someone I used to idolize.

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Speaker 2: I have her autograph, like, and I really did hold

337
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Speaker 2: onto it for as long as I could, And I

338
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 2: admit it because I knew in twenty eighteen is when

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Speaker 2: it was first like something's something's amissed here. And it

340
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 2: wasn't until twenty twenty that I was like, oh, I

341
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Speaker 2: can't do this anymore, which.

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Speaker 1: Is when she really really told down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, she was starting to like some comments and

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Speaker 3: I was like, wait what, Yeah, because she was she

345
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Speaker 3: was She seemed like part of the problem was her

346
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Speaker 3: persona was championing, yes, marginalized folks. At one point the

347
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Speaker 3: whole Dumbledore conversation about him, yeah he's definitely gay to

348
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Speaker 3: Hermione being played by a black woman, being like, why

349
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Speaker 3: wouldn't she be I never said she was white, like

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Speaker 3: all these things that made you think that she was

351
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Speaker 3: you like for the marginalized, which again, most like these,

352
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Speaker 3: especially when you have a character that's an orphan immediately,

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Speaker 3: like as a person who was literally an orphan living

354
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Speaker 3: in an orphanage, like that is a call out to

355
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 3: love this character because you feel petty for this character,

356
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Speaker 3: and then you feel some sense of commonality because they're

357
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 3: the underdogs, Like that's what you know with kindness and caring,

358
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Speaker 3: which again, my social worker friends and I laugh because

359
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Speaker 3: we're like, if that was a real person, he would

360
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 3: have been real stub and like he would he would

361
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 3: have committed a lot of crimes and or be so

362
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 3: introverted and awkward that we would have societal issues like me.

363
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Speaker 3: But all that's say, these fictionalized characters are built up

364
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 3: so that you can feel a commonality, and as we

365
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 3: know today, as she did as a child herself. She

366
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Speaker 3: talked about it being feeling like the underdog the entire time.

367
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Speaker 3: So that's a call out to those who felt that

368
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Speaker 3: way in real life and finding a character to love

369
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Speaker 3: and then finding different characters that could be you. So

370
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Speaker 3: like having a Harmony character and an Iran character and

371
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 3: all the different characters outside characters made you fall in

372
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Speaker 3: love with that situation and wished you were a part

373
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Speaker 3: of that world, because she created this world. No matter what. Yes,

374
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Speaker 3: she is talented, like she's an awful person, but she

375
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 3: is talented and we know that, and unfortunately she built

376
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Speaker 3: up this love for years because I also watched in

377
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Speaker 3: real time a good friend of mine I've talked about

378
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 3: her before, whose life was in shamble, Like I watched

379
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Speaker 3: her going through so much in college and like watching

380
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Speaker 3: and having to be careful to care for her because

381
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Speaker 3: her stability was so unsure. I've seen so many things

382
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Speaker 3: in her life. I was like, oh my god, is

383
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Speaker 3: she okay? Leaned so hard into Harry Potter that when

384
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Speaker 3: people would question it, she would break down as well,

385
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Speaker 3: like one person like, you're in college, why do you

386
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Speaker 3: like this? And that was like she was there from

387
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Speaker 3: the beginning too, but we were again age different. She

388
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Speaker 3: was late high schools in the college when she was

389
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: loving it, and people would make fun of her because yes,

390
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 3: us as college students, we would just be like, what

391
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: are you doing, well, this is a kid's book whatever, whatnot.

392
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 3: But then seeing her lean so hard into it and

393
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 3: finding defensive and defensiveness and making sure you understood how

394
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 3: important it is to her. Again, I don't know where

395
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 3: she stands to say. We haven't talked in a long time,

396
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 3: but I realized, wow, okay, this is this is her reality,

397
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 3: that fictional land is her reality, and she needs it

398
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,479
Speaker 3: to cope today or everything fall apart. Like when we

399
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 3: talk about suicidality, I was watching her. Let's just say

400
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 3: like that, but when she would lean into it and

401
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 3: just watch these movies repeatedly, read these books, repeatedly, look

402
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 3: into the world repeatedly because she needed that to survive

403
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 3: literally to the next day. So knowing that and then

404
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 3: having that world fall apart because the person who created it,

405
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: who you loved, because they created this world for you

406
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 3: and then they said, yes, this is my world that

407
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 3: I want you to be a part of. You're welcome,

408
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 3: where you can feel safe, and then to rip that

409
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 3: from you is heartbreaking. And it's not only heartbreaking once again,

410
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 3: it's morning you've lost something.

411
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was me, Like I think I did

412
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: what I had to do to survive, as you said,

413
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 2: but I did. Like I would sit in my room

414
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 2: and I would just hold the book and I would

415
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 2: be like, I can I can get through those because

416
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: I have this and it might not be the healthiest thing,

417
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 2: but it was like what I had and.

418
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Speaker 1: I did.

419
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: When I would have suicidality, I would think, well, you

420
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: don't know how Harry Potter ends yet, So that's something

421
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: to keep fighting for so it was like it was

422
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 2: such a big part of my life at my darkest,

423
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: like darkest times, and now yeah, it does it. It's

424
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: like alienating me and like making me feel unsafe. I

425
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: had a friend say, like, every time I see someone

426
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: in Harry Potter cosplay, I have to wonder, like are

427
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 2: they a safe person for me to be around, Like do.

428
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: I know.

429
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: How they or are they like they know but they're

430
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 2: like able to deal with it?

431
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: Do they know?

432
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: And they agree? Like all of those things. And it's

433
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: also kind of like it's not fun having to explain it.

434
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 2: I had to explain to my mom why she should

435
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: stop giving me Harry Potter stuff. Oh no, it's just

436
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: like I know that's really silly, but it's not fun

437
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: to have to be like, well, actually, turns out this

438
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: thing that I really convinced you was great it's not

439
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 2: so great. And now it hurts because it is. It's

440
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 2: like you enter this safe space, you go to this

441
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: sort of escapist fantasy world and you trust it to

442
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: make you feel to feel safe, and then yeah, it

443
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 2: turns around and hurts you instead. Another part of this

444
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: has been hearing from listeners, which some of you admittedly,

445
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 2: like a lot of years passed over these messages that

446
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 2: I've been hearing, so you your opinion listeners might have

447
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: even changed. But some of you have explained how you

448
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: are able to still enjoy it. The others have said,

449
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: like how much it just wrecked you? And that started

450
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: becoming I couldn't stop thinking about that either, So which

451
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: is not like, please don't feel like you don't you.

452
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: Didn't ruin anything for me.

453
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: She did like, don't feel bad about that, but it

454
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: just became like I couldn't stop thinking about that.

455
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: And also now.

456
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: I wonder about conservative parents who did yeah once we're

457
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: like switchcraft and banned it, and now I'm very happy

458
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: to air with their kids, and I feel weird about

459
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: kids reading it. I would never ever ever like, I

460
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: don't know, come at a kid, but it does. I

461
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: just I wish if it's had it happened, I would

462
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: have loved to have shared that, And now it's become

463
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: kind of a not.

464
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: No, no, I would not love to sharing it anymore.

465
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 3: I think about that also because my nieces have gotten

466
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: into him recently. I think when I say recently, the

467
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 3: last five years, and I found that shocking because again

468
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: my mom was like, its witchcrafts never will I have it,

469
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: and my sister even said that too, And then all

470
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they are older high schoolers and they're

471
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: all reading Harry Potter, and I was like, what's what's

472
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: going on? What's going on? Oh, they let you read

473
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: Harry Potter, They're okay with they watched Harry Potter with you,

474
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 3: like all these things literally never until that point. And

475
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: then I think about it. I'm like, well, and I'm

476
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 3: gonna say this very frankly and not too hurting my feeling,

477
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: but I'm like, it kind of shows me that a

478
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: either you are not friends with the people who are

479
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 3: in this community who has been truly hurt by this,

480
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: or be the people we know. There's a lot of

481
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 3: trans people who are like, we're fine with it, this

482
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 3: is fine, this is nothing to do like that separation

483
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 3: and that's for them themselves. And I get that, and

484
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 3: it's this whole other level of like being saying that

485
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: they can separate the art from the artists conversation, and

486
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: it's kind of like, huh, okay, I can't give you

487
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: that opinion because you, as a trans person, you have

488
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: to decide for yourself. I'm not. I have no stake

489
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: in that matter, and that sense that like everybody gets hurt,

490
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: but I'm not personally attacked here. So it's kind of

491
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: one of those things like Okay, I'm gonna leave it be,

492
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: but do you see it for the people that you

493
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 3: don't even know? And it is a question of empathy.

494
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 3: And I know that word is really popular right now

495
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: and everybody's like, I'm an impact, then I do these things.

496
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, I have to question, do you not understand

497
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: when you see these really hurtful words that you may

498
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: not be that identifier? But for a person to say

499
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: that you're invalid, you're not a woman. And then this

500
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: new rhetoric of like they're stealing from us, I'm like,

501
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: what are they stealing? I don't understand trying to replace us?

502
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: That was the thing. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm

503
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: just physically laughing. I'm like, that is the oddest way

504
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 3: of seeing this, Like then every baby girl born is

505
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: trying to replace you. That's your mentality of like a

506
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: I don't know anyway. That's a whole other sidetracker. There's

507
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 3: so many things that like where do you get this

508
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: that you might there's that question. It's like, I don't

509
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 3: think you do, because you're either you're not looking deep

510
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 3: enough or you're being very, very cavalier about this topic.

511
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: Maybe you're just ignoring it because that's what you have

512
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: to do. That's what you want to do to keep

513
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: this safety. And I understand that to a certain extent.

514
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's this level like do you true. I

515
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,239
Speaker 3: don't think it it. I think there's a level of

516
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: disconnect if you can do that, and I think they

517
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: would like I say that in a way that sounds harsh,

518
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 3: but it's true, like they're like disconnected or separated, as

519
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: they would say or people would say, And that's that's

520
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: an interesting way of doing it. I can't do that,

521
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: Like I can't do that for anything. Yeah, which is

522
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: why I missed. I don't know a lot of things.

523
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: But but that's the whole thing, is like, which is

524
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: why I'm like I can't watch this, I can't see this.

525
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: I cringe at this, Like those are this level and

526
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: not that it makes me better, it doesn't. I feel

527
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: like I missed out on so many things because of

528
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: that level. But you have to question, like, Okay, what's

529
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: the motive mm hmmm, and and again, if it's for safety,

530
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: there's I get that to that extent.

531
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: I do too, And we're gonna come back to you

532
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: your point about like it's not it's not being better necessarily.

533
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: That's not like not what I want you to I'm

534
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: not trying to be like shaming you for liking something,

535
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: because I, like I said, as much as it annoys

536
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 2: me when it comes up in argument, everything is problematic,

537
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: and I get that. And everyone sort of has their

538
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 2: their own personal lines what they can deal with, what

539
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: they can disconnect, and I get that too. I guess

540
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: what I'm trying. I really just want for anyone else

541
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: who feels this, I just want to let you know

542
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: like I feel it too, because it does get lost,

543
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: and I think it does get lost in a really

544
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: like black or white monetary situation when we're not talking

545
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: about like kind of that cultural impact, that cultural hurt,

546
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: that cultural loss of losing something that made you feel

547
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: really safe or that just was a great coping mechanism

548
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: for you, or like something you have so many associated

549
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: memories with. And I didn't want to put in here

550
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: because this comes up a lot. This is really silly.

551
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: People tease me all the time because I won't eat

552
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: Chick fil A because of homophobia, and they're always kind

553
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: of joking like, oh, she has a code, but I

554
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: like their chicken nuggets too much. And I always say

555
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: it was like really easy for me to give up

556
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: Chick fil A because I actually wasn't a big fan anyway.

557
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like, Okay, well I can give

558
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: that up. And I consume products that are terrible all

559
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: the time. I use things, honestly, I use things I

560
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: wish I didn't have to use, but they're kind of

561
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 2: like the only game in town. But there's a difference

562
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: between like a company that I really don't care about,

563
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: I really don't care, and like media that you love

564
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: that got you through like this really difficult time. And

565
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: so I just I guess I just want to say

566
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: again like it wasn't an easy thing, and yeah.

567
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: It has been like grieving.

568
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: As I was saying earlier, I have gotten really in

569
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: my head about I don't want to bring down people's

570
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: joy because they brought me so much joy. But then

571
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: at the same time, I'm not acknowledging that it's like

572
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: bringing me down, and they talk about it, and so

573
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: I kind of shut down. I close off when it

574
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: comes up, which is not like the healthiest thing.

575
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: I think.

576
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: I really haven't allowed myself to say any of this

577
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 2: out loud, so I'm hoping maybe this is actually going

578
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 2: to be a healing kind of a healing moment. But

579
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: also I do want to acknowledge this. A lot of

580
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: this has played out on Twitter, and I have most

581
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: of my friends don't use Twitter, haven't ever like and

582
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: so I mean there's an argument to be made about

583
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: like willful ignorance, sure, but I also think like they

584
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: might not know the extent, and I always feel weird.

585
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, did you know about this?

586
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: Like if I want to give all the examples because

587
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: there's a weird spot you're.

588
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: In, then when if they're like yes, then you feel

589
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: that's not a great feeling. But if they're like no,

590
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: it's just a risk. It's a roll of the dice.

591
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: But I will acknowlge, especially because I've like, really I

592
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: have gotten off most of social media, like I barely

593
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: use it now. And sometimes you'll say something, I'm like, no,

594
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: I had not heard anything about that, So I understand.

595
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: I do get that that is a thing. I also

596
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: get that it's not fun to talk about. And yes,

597
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: I do not want people to like compliment me or

598
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: say like, oh, yes, I get it, you're stronger and

599
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: better than I am.

600
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: I don't want that. That's not true, that is not

601
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: what it is.

602
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: I just yeah, I just want to share it because

603
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: if anyone else feels it, but also to people who

604
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: are still able to enjoy it, especially in ways that

605
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: don't make her money. I don't blame you, and I

606
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: really am happy for you. It's hard for me to

607
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: show it, I can admit, but I am like I

608
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: miss it, and sometimes I think like maybe one day

609
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: I could too, but I don't think so, like she

610
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: would like really really change her tune and make amends

611
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: and it would still take a long time.

612
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: But I you know, who knows. I'm not trying to

613
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: make anyone feel guilty. I don't.

614
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's a decent situation, Like it just sucks for everybody.

615
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: It's not something I'm looking at guilty people about.

616
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: But I guess, like I don't like that.

617
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: A lot of the arguments I'm seeing, which there are

618
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: a lot of arguments about it, does revolve around like

619
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: who is who's a bigger fan and it being like well,

620
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: you gave up on it completely and I didn't, or well,

621
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: I gave it up and you didn't. I don't think

622
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: that's the conversation we should be having, honestly, because it

623
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: just it just hurts. It just hurts, and I feel

624
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: like I keep saying giving up, but really it's forced out,

625
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: like it's it does feel like it's it's like you're

626
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: eving a loss. And because I loved it so much,

627
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: like I opened myself up to it hurting me this badly.

628
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: I get that for some of you, you're listening to

629
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: this and you're like, what are you? Why is this

630
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: such a big thing? But it is that, Like I

631
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: understand that for some people it's it doesn't have these

632
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: emotional steaks. But I think, like this argument that I'm seeing,

633
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: I think we should all remember like we're different when

634
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: it comes to how we deal with something like this,

635
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: which again is pretty unique, and maybe neither is stronger

636
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: or better, and that's the point. Maybe maybe it shouldn't

637
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: be a fan competition about who loves something more, because

638
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: that's really hard to judge, and I also don't think

639
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: that's healthy. But I do think the fact that I

640
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 2: loved it that much and left should say something about

641
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: how bad she is, right.

642
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: I think our listeners are probably aware, but that's the

643
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 3: biggest thing, is to make sure you that everyone understands

644
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: what's at stake necessarily, and when you see rhetoric and

645
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 3: laws being changed based on things that people write, which

646
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: literal laws are being changed and or introduced in the

647
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: UK based on what JK. Rowling has written and has

648
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 3: been presented in the United States as well as to

649
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: why trans people should not exist. Essentially, think that's what

650
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 3: they're saying, and we are seeing a widespread of anti trans,

651
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 3: anti lgbtquia plus laws happening all over the world, like

652
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: in the US and the UK, we see it in

653
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: a whole different way, and it's it feels like it's

654
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: they've been waiting and then having an influencer like her

655
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: who had money to back it up as well, because

656
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 3: we also know she's donated to several of these causes,

657
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: so instead of actually like not donating to anything or

658
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 3: donating to something that's actually good, she donates to anti things.

659
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: So that's the conversation that we're having, as well as

660
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: the fact that both the publishers, the movie executives and

661
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 3: herself put her face as the uh spokesperson for Harry Potter,

662
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: and that's that's part of that conversation too. It's not

663
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 3: necessarily Daniel Radcliffe, it's literally her.

664
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's one of the things I think about

665
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: a lot is once the Max Show the reboot got greenlit,

666
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: she said something like, you can cry your tears and

667
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: have your boycott and I'll just be drinking champagne and

668
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: counting my money. And so I think like, even if

669
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: as long as companies don't feel that they have to

670
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: cut her out, she's going to keep getting these deals

671
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 2: and she's going to keep making that money, whether you

672
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: are like support her financially or not.

673
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 3: Literally, she said for the game, the game company says

674
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 3: she's not a part of it. She's not a part

675
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: of it, but in the you know that she's making

676
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 3: millions of dollars off of it because she's a smart businesswoman.

677
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: Once again, we're not taking that away from her. And

678
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: she made sure to get that copyright deal for everything.

679
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 3: So there you go.

680
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I feel like that's she A lot

681
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: of times she kind of implies she's probably outright said it,

682
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 2: but I can't.

683
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure, but.

684
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: She implies like, as long as she's still culturally relevant,

685
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: then what she understands is people either agree with her

686
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 2: or don't care enough to do anything about it, right,

687
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: and that I think I skipped over this bullet point.

688
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: But one of the biggest things about her that comes

689
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: up again when I'm having these disagreements with friends is like,

690
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: not only is she like a pseudo feminist, not a

691
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: feminist at all, but like presents herself in that way

692
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: and is therefore legitimized in that way. A lot of

693
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: people have said, like, oh, she was cool with like,

694
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of queer stuff, just not that transpart,

695
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 2: which they think is bad. But I'm like, well, then

696
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: I think that that's not she wasn't cool with any

697
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 2: of that. It. Like, I'm kind of like the same

698
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 2: way we say an intersectional feminist not a feminist, You're

699
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: not a feminist if you're a turf. I think it's

700
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: kind of the same with like queer stuff, Like, well

701
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 2: then she's not cool with it at all.

702
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: Right, Again, like there's people have nitpicked her for everything.

703
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I feel like there's some validity. So

704
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 3: when you start looking at like it's kind of a whole,

705
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: like and this is what I was always told by

706
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 3: a person from England, So don't yell at me that

707
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: the whole like black white is not an issue but ethnicity.

708
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 3: So when it comes to like Pakistani people and such like,

709
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: that's a big deal. And it's kind of been implied

710
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: to be like yeah, no, yeah, even though they may

711
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 3: be cool with like having international couples with black and

712
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 3: white people, outside of that, there's other ethnicities that that

713
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 3: becomes a whole conversation. And there's been a whole rhetoric

714
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 3: in TikTok in which slurs for Asian people is okay,

715
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: still there and you're like, wait what And so there's

716
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: a back and forth of like people like, no, it's

717
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 3: not true, but they literally call Chinese food the derogatory

718
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: word for Asian people. And I was like wait what

719
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 3: wait what like and people like no, no, but it's

720
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: it's just it's just that way. It's not a big deal,

721
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 3: like but it is, but no, but it is, like

722
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: I don't know what's happening, but it is, but that level,

723
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 3: like just because it's not the same as in other

724
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: places doesn't mean it doesn't exist there Again, with her like, oh, yeah,

725
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 3: she's cool with this specific type of marginalized people. But

726
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: outside of that, not cool right, doesn't mean she's.

727
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: Cool, right, Yes, I agree, yes so much. Yes, and

728
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: I know like.

729
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: That. Sorry, Ukpole, We'll let us know.

730
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 2: Kindly please, And I I just want to say here

731
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 2: because I I hope.

732
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: It's clear.

733
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: That Samantha knows I when I love something, I love something.

734
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: Sure, this is not this is not a conversation. I

735
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: was dreading it.

736
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: I've been putting it off like I didn't want to

737
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: have it. I really am not finding any joy in

738
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 2: doing this, Like I'm not like gleeful that oh like

739
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: you you all who are still you know in this world.

740
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: I am like finding glee that I am better than

741
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 2: you when I moved on. I'm not like this. This

742
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: is like a really hurt I hope it's clearing my voice.

743
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: Like it was.

744
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: It's not something I'm trying to make you feel bad about.

745
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: But it is in our show. And as you know,

746
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: we have to talk about the hard stuff, the things

747
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: that make you uncomfortable and the things that you have

748
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 3: to have this comment, Like we could talk about the

749
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 3: Asian model minority myth, which is popping back up right

750
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: now in the US, which we will. I've also been

751
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 3: putting that off because I get very angry and upset

752
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: about it because this level of supremacy, supremacy ideal, which

753
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: is exactly what's happening with JK.

754
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: Rowling.

755
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 3: She feels this level of supremacy over a group of

756
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: martialized people and wants to maintain that power because for

757
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: some reason it threatens her, which is not true. Again,

758
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 3: that's what they are saying. They sell that they feel

759
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: threatened at this imaginary idea of someone else being who

760
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 3: they are. Like again, I'm still very confused by this

761
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 3: whole we're being replaced.

762
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: It's like, what are you?

763
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: Are you no longer a woman?

764
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: Like?

765
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 3: Did you what's happening?

766
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: Why are you?

767
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 3: Congratulations? If you're not, that's how you feel because you

768
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 3: feel different, go ahead, But I don't think anybody's forcing

769
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 3: you to be anything else. So I'm not really sure

770
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 3: how you're being replaced. But okay, once again, but yeah,

771
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 3: this is the whole conversation that we have to look

772
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: to it. It's not a pretty pristine world and these

773
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: minute what we would say, minute details or what you

774
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 3: would think is like a smaller conversation is a big

775
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 3: conversation because as we talked about in intersectionality, is that

776
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: if one group of people are oppressed or marginalized, it

777
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 3: means everyone is going to be affected by this conversation.

778
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: And when we look at the fact that if one

779
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 3: percent of people do not have the freedom and the rights,

780
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: then no one is safe and no one like it's

781
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 3: not true freedom. Well, again, we've talked about that before.

782
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 3: It's not true equality in any of that. And that's

783
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: the intersectionality of it is looking at the basis of

784
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 3: every group is affected differently, and some people are affected more,

785
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: and we have to talk about why that breakdown is happening,

786
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 3: even if it makes it uncomfortable because we may not

787
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 3: be a part of that group, but we see it

788
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: and we know that that is damaging for everyone. Like

789
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: I hate to be that narcissistic because it's not about us,

790
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: but it can't like that's the truth of it all.

791
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, Like yeah, until that is broken down, it's

792
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 3: not true. This idea of equality is not true.

793
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that these these conversations

794
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: are also tough because you have to acknowledge what you

795
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: were previously allowing to be okay.

796
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 2: And I think people including me, like everybody, I think

797
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: it's a natural response to feel defensive when you get

798
00:44:54,640 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: those questions and to sort of try to point out, like, well,

799
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: what way are you not a hypocrite? We're all hypocrites.

800
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: The big Well, it comes down to what are you upholding?

801
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 3: Are you holding oppression, supremacy and overall power or are

802
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 3: you looking at true quality? And that's and it does

803
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 3: affect everything, know that matter how trivial you think it is.

804
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: To pretend like it doesn't is just as naive. I'm

805
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 3: being a lot more made. I'm a little again, I'm more.

806
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 3: I absolutely understand. I am definitely disconnected. I have an

807
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: attachment isstry in general, so I don't get attached to

808
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 3: things too harshly because.

809
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose at any point.

810
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 3: That's my drama. But it's fine. I'm fine, Everything's fine.

811
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, but that's I mean, that's the reality is

812
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 3: when we have these conversations and then when you again, yes,

813
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: you do your thing, you have to do what's safely,

814
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: and then you have to do it in your own

815
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 3: timing whatever that might be. But we're not we can't

816
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: pretend that it's not something that can affect something like

817
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 3: it affects things. There is a cause and effect to everything,

818
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 3: and you have to weigh that you.

819
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: Do you do.

820
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: And I also just quick final note, I want to say,

821
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 2: sometimes when we do this podcast, I feel really terrible

822
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: because perhaps I'm essentially having an argument that I haven't

823
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: had with a real person, but it's like, come up,

824
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and they're not here to

825
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: present their side. And to that end, I want to

826
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: say that I'm also I'm really bad at letting things go.

827
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 2: I'm really I want to be better at having a disagreement.

828
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: I want to be better about like not shutting down

829
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: and making people feel like they can't share something they

830
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: love with me. This is a complicated thing because it

831
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: does hurt. But I also think because I haven't allowed

832
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 2: myself to grief yet, that maybe I will get better.

833
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 2: That's also like a toxic I know that about myself.

834
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: And I also, I mean, you all know, I get

835
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: how fun it is to talk about your fan fiction,

836
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: and so sometimes it feels like I am being very

837
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: selfish because I'm like, I don't want to hear about

838
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 2: your Hair Potter fan fiction because it's just slipsetting, and

839
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: that means I've stopped talking about my fan fiction pretty

840
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: largely too. But it's like, it's just like this protective

841
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 2: mechanism kicks in and is like, no, you can't, you

842
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: cannot deal with this, And I just I want to

843
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 2: work on that. I want to find a better way

844
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: to recognize my negive emotions and deal with them. But

845
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: I also just want to say that it's something I

846
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: should do. But really, I also think I'm being too

847
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 2: forgiving of jk Rowling because he's kind of the one

848
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: that's bringing you down, not me. Yeah, So thank you

849
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: so much, Samantha. You've been very supportive in this thing

850
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: I was putting off for so long, And to any

851
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 2: listeners who feel the same, I am here.

852
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: I am with you.

853
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephid mom Stuff at iHeartMedia

854
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

855
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stephan Never

856
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 2: Told You. We also have a tea public store with merchandise,

857
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: or we have a book that you can pre order

858
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: at Stuff. You should read Books dot com audio form

859
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: or physical form. Thanks as always to our super producer,

860
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: Christina our executive producer Maya and our contributor Joey.

861
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stephan never

862
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: told you the projection of My Heart Radio.

863
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 2: For more podcast from My Heart Radio, you can check

864
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows. Oh no,