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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Come back to the Book of Joe podcast with me,

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Speaker 1: Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. I heard something

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Speaker 1: about a football game or something coming up this weekend.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get to that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But there was a really big trade in baseball that

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about, and that is Corbyn Burns

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Speaker 1: of the Milwaukee Brewers going to the Baltimore Orioles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Brandon Hides Baltimore Orioles. It was a deal I've been

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Speaker 1: waiting for all winter. Joe going back to Milwaukee left

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Speaker 1: handed pitcher Dl Hall and infielder Joey Ortiz and a

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Speaker 1: competitive balanced draft pick next or this year, which is

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Speaker 1: about number thirty four of the draft coming up. So

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Speaker 1: two major league ready prospects and a draft pick for

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Speaker 1: a guy I believe is one of the best starting

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Speaker 1: pitchers in the game, Corbyn Burns. Of course, he's in

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Speaker 1: his last year of control, so he's eligible for free

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Speaker 1: agency at the end of the year. Joe, give me

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Speaker 1: your quick take when you heard about this deal. Corbyn

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Speaker 1: Burns going to a team that won the most games

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Speaker 1: in the American League last year at the Baltimore Orioles.

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Speaker 3: I was happy for Hyder a lot. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 3: you're right, this guy is so good, he has been

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Speaker 3: consistently good. He takes them to another level by getting

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Speaker 3: to the front of that rotation. They're in Baltimore back

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Speaker 3: some of those younger guys up that had great years,

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Speaker 3: but now there's a little less mental pressure on their

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Speaker 3: performance in a sense, or their status, whatever you want

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Speaker 3: to call it. So I think it kind of eases

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Speaker 3: a lot of guys into different roles in a good way.

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Speaker 3: So from their perspective, you know, there's a one year

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Speaker 3: deal possibly, you know, with the new ownership in Baltimore,

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Speaker 3: that may have had something to do with it. I

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Speaker 3: don't know, but all of a sudden they may have

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Speaker 3: more open pocketbooks that make it more likely to re

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Speaker 3: sign Corbin in the future, which to me just would

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Speaker 3: make all the sense in the world. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that that they're going to wait to see if he

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Speaker 3: pitches well or not. They know what they like about him,

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Speaker 3: they know his age, they know his injury history everything,

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Speaker 3: so that shouldn't be the issue. But they're very worried

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Speaker 3: in a sense to always talk about what they may

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Speaker 3: do in the future, and they want to put those

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Speaker 3: kind of talks on the side because they're concerned what's

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Speaker 3: going to sound like and the story that they put

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Speaker 3: out there. In a sense where listen, I'd like to

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Speaker 3: have Corborn works for the next five, six, seven years

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Speaker 3: absolutely so anyway, I hope that works out well for them.

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Speaker 3: The prospects are another thing that you just don't know.

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Speaker 3: You don't know when guys like that great pedigree. I

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Speaker 3: get it, I've never seen these kids play, but you

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Speaker 3: just don't know when prospects are going to turn out

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Speaker 3: to be what they're supposed to be or not. Whereas

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Speaker 3: you know Burns is, and you also know that this

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Speaker 3: team is World Series ready for a lot of different reasons. Man,

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Speaker 3: it was a really good move for the Orioles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, you know the Orioles made this move with

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Speaker 1: no guarantees that they have Corbyn Burns beyond this year,

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Speaker 1: and as you mentioned, they're at the stage now where

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Speaker 1: that shouldn't matter. They're trying to get back to a

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Speaker 1: World series, win a world series. Corbyn is a difference maker.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's good pictures and then there's aces guys

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Speaker 1: who really are staff leaders.

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Speaker 2: This guy is mentally tough.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't want to give up the ball when he's

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Speaker 1: in the game at any point. He's pitched in big moments.

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Speaker 1: I truly believe that there are not thirty aces in

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Speaker 1: the game every team.

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Speaker 2: I have to have somebody's start opening Day.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I love the fact that they got

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Speaker 1: not just a really good pitcher, they got a mentally

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Speaker 1: strong guy who is going to be a staff leader

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Speaker 1: by the way he carries himself, the way that he prepares,

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Speaker 1: just kind of the attitude that he's going to give

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Speaker 1: as far as whether he remains there or not.

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Speaker 2: Listen, he's a West Coast guy.

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Speaker 1: I think he needs to try on the fit so

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Speaker 1: to speak with Baltimore, see how it works. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he just saw the amount of money that was thrown

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Speaker 1: out there this offseason for Yeshanobo Yabamoto, the highest paid

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Speaker 1: pitcher in baseball now.

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Speaker 2: And you know, listen, he's gonna have tremendous leverage.

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Speaker 1: Going into a free agency auction atmosphere, if you will,

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Speaker 1: so I wouldn't expect him to sign an extension at

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Speaker 1: this point. Maybe he will later on in the season,

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Speaker 1: but at this point I think it's about getting the

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Speaker 1: Orioles back to a World Series. I think this makes

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Speaker 1: them the team to beat. So I'm happy for Corbyn Burns.

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Speaker 1: He's worked hard to get to this point. The Brewers

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Speaker 1: had to make this deal. They couldn't lose him for

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Speaker 1: just a draft pick play the season out, so I

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Speaker 1: think it makes a ton of sense on both sides.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get into the prospects in the second Joe,

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Speaker 1: because you brought them up. But curious your take when

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Speaker 1: you have a pitching staff and you've got that one

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Speaker 1: guy who's not just getting people out, but he's got

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Speaker 1: an effect on the other guys because the other rotation mates.

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Speaker 1: You have John Means, who came back from Tommy John

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Speaker 1: surgery last year. I love him, but obviously they're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to be careful with his innings first full year

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Speaker 1: off of TJ. Kyle Braddish really like him a lot.

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Speaker 1: Think you take a little bit of pressure off him

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Speaker 1: by having Burns in front of him, and Grayson Rodriguez

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Speaker 1: has got a starter stuff. I'm a little bit concerned

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Speaker 1: about him because they did use him a lot last

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Speaker 1: year as a young pitcher, really bumped his innings up

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Speaker 1: and his mechanics. Actually, I think are a concerned Joe.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a little bit of a late loader.

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Speaker 1: I'd keep an eye on how much work I give

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Speaker 1: that kid, and I like having him now having to

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Speaker 1: pitch maybe in the middle that rotation rather at the top.

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Speaker 2: So it makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't mentally for him to make a big difference too.

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Speaker 3: I've had that in the past. You're talking about, like

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Speaker 3: the way starting rotation stacks up, thinking anybody's thinking about

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Speaker 3: the rays as you're going through all that. That's what

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Speaker 3: we had eventually, you know, when Shields came on, and

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Speaker 3: then of course David Price ascend it. Gosh, we even

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Speaker 3: had the way Davis pitching at one time had to

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Speaker 3: put him. We eventually put him into bull penetrated him.

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Speaker 3: But when you have those two or three guys, it

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Speaker 3: could really makes a big difference. You strolling the town

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Speaker 3: for a three day series and you got three guys

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Speaker 3: lined up that are that good, it really makes a

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Speaker 3: huge difference for your team and your attitude as well

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Speaker 3: as the other team back in the day, So talk

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Speaker 3: to toughy dire ball people. He was coaching. I think

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Speaker 3: with the Brewers and we walked in there with Finley

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Speaker 3: Langston and Jimmy Abbott, and I think that was Oakland.

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Speaker 3: She was with Oakland, and nobody liked to see those

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Speaker 3: three lefties lined up. So I don't know that people

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Speaker 3: really understand that when you when you sash into a

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Speaker 3: town with that kind of a starting rotation, mentally, there's

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Speaker 3: an edge component to that that the other team sees,

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Speaker 3: and that also that your team feels too. So when

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Speaker 3: you get that going on, it's a difference maker. I've

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Speaker 3: had Show Hey, I've had Johnny Lester. I think you

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Speaker 3: have to consider Jake Arietta at his best is also

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Speaker 3: an a So when you have those guys, believe me.

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Speaker 3: It also the thing again I think it's talked about

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Speaker 3: a little bit, is how they can control a losing streak.

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Speaker 3: Things are going well and all of a sudden it's

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Speaker 3: their turn. Things change that night, they don't give anything up,

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Speaker 3: you score two runs and you win, and then what

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Speaker 3: that means for the next day in the day after that.

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Speaker 3: There's so much nuance and feel to the through the

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Speaker 3: course of a major league season that these guys impact,

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Speaker 3: And of course when you get to the playoffs, best

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Speaker 3: out of five. If you have three starters like that, Wow,

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Speaker 3: and then and you get to the best out of seven,

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Speaker 3: it's it's just a difference maker. And that's why where

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Speaker 3: the way starting pitching has been almost diminished in a sense.

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Speaker 3: But the openers and the five innings and all this stuff,

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Speaker 3: that's the one thing I just don't quite understand why

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Speaker 3: that is attractive other than keeping salaries down. Because when

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Speaker 3: you get guys that go six and six plus into

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Speaker 3: the seventh regularly, wow. As a manager, your strategy into

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Speaker 3: the game and during the game regarding how you're gonna

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Speaker 3: use your bullpen completely different. And that's how you keep

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Speaker 3: these guys fresh, your bullpen guys. I've always felt a

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Speaker 3: good starting rotation makes for a better bullpen. Always. You

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Speaker 3: have to evaluate all these different things when you talk

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Speaker 3: about the addition of a Corbyn Burns, or when you

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Speaker 3: are lucky enough to have James Shields and David Price

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Speaker 3: and even at one time Jeremy HeLEX and I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is like a really good group. I didn't have

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Speaker 3: the same thing with the Angels necessarily, but I'll just

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Speaker 3: throw it out there. I do believe some of those

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Speaker 3: young pitchers out there can develop into some really good

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Speaker 3: stuff over the next couple of years. So it makes

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Speaker 3: a difference starting pitching dry the engine have always felt

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Speaker 3: that way and if I'm running a team, that's exactly

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Speaker 3: what I'm looking for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned the Orioles new ownership there.

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Speaker 1: Their test is not going to be Corbyn Burns because

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Speaker 1: I just think Corbyn being a West Coast guy and

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Speaker 1: free agency looming, I think he's going to wait.

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Speaker 2: That's just my opinion.

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Speaker 1: But I think the true test for this new ownership

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Speaker 1: group is locking up guys like Adlie Rushman, Jackson Holiday,

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Speaker 1: and Gunnar Henderson. I mean, you saw the Brewers lock

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Speaker 1: up Jackson Cheerio, top prospect hasn't yet played in the

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Speaker 1: big leagues. It was the right thing to do. When

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Speaker 1: you have a top, top flight prospect, everyday player, don't

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Speaker 1: go year to year with them. And if you're a

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Orioles fan at the Rushman, Gunnar Henderson, Jackson Holiday,

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Speaker 1: those are three franchise players. You give those guys long

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Speaker 1: term security and you can feel good about it. Those

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Speaker 1: guys aren't going to change. I think there were Peters

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Speaker 1: as far as performance goes, attitude wise, make up off

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Speaker 1: the charts. That to me is something that is priority

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Speaker 1: number one for this Baltimore ownership.

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Speaker 2: Let their fans know it will be a different era.

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Speaker 3: And I think that kind of began right with the

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Speaker 3: Indians back in the day with John Hart, with the

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Speaker 3: Indians trying to lock up young talent. And although we

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Speaker 3: talked about moving forward with the Cubbies, we didn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: do all of that, And some of these guys as

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Speaker 3: they left Chicago when other places did not really live

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Speaker 3: up to the pedigree thought of And I gave you

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Speaker 3: the example a couple of weeks ago of Mark macklamore

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Speaker 3: what I thought in the beginning and how that eventually

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Speaker 3: watched out. I get it. I understand locking it up.

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Speaker 3: I understand understanding your costs and being able to build

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Speaker 3: in the future and man, but when you're betting on

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Speaker 3: young talent and I know these guys are good, I

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Speaker 3: get it. I get it. I get it. I get it.

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Speaker 3: But I don't believe in the as a scout and

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Speaker 3: as having done this in thepacit it absolutely is a

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Speaker 3: lock that these guys are going to play to that

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Speaker 3: level that you think they are. I get it. I

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Speaker 3: would probably do the same thing, but I'm telling you, man,

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Speaker 3: things change, whether it's through an injury or just the

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Speaker 3: way a guy thinks. With these kids, you absolutely believe

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Speaker 3: that they're solid. They're not going to change just who

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Speaker 3: they are and how they are. But nevertheless I would

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Speaker 3: do it, yes, but I just it's just not absolutely

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Speaker 3: all luck that it's going to turn out the way

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Speaker 3: you think it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, Joe, I would agree with you,

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Speaker 1: but I think you're looking at exceptions. Adley Rushman is

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Speaker 1: just amazing and Gunnar Henderson. The minute I saw him

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Speaker 1: he came up at the end of the season a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, I.

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Speaker 2: Just went, WHOA.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the Orioles know these guys, they draft

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Speaker 1: to develop them. I mean, you have to feel good

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Speaker 1: if you're going to make long term commitments to people.

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Speaker 2: I think you do that for the special ones.

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Speaker 1: And again I agree with you overall it can be

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Speaker 1: risky with a prospect, but not these ones. And speaking

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Speaker 1: of prospects, let's talk about the two going back to

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee in dl Hall, the left handed pitcher, and Joey Ortiz,

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Speaker 1: the infielder. Ortiz is going to hit. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: a good defender too, but he's got power in his bat.

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Speaker 1: I think he's going to be the everyday second baseman

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Speaker 1: for the Milwaukee Brewers and until they unless they trade

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Speaker 1: Willie a damas the shortstop.

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Speaker 2: I like that pick up there.

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Speaker 1: Listen, he was blocked by we just mentioned all these

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Speaker 1: infielders the Orioles have. You know, if you're in the

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Speaker 1: oriol system right now and you're an infielder, I mean,

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Speaker 1: get line ticket ticket and hope maybe somebody else, an

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Speaker 1: organization finds you. So good on Joey Artis, he's gonna

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Speaker 1: get a chance to play. It wasn't gonna happen. And

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Speaker 1: credit to the Baltimore development system here, Joe. They've they've

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Speaker 1: got the ability to deal top prospects, guys backed up

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Speaker 1: like the planes at O'Hare, so that that's a really

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Speaker 1: powerful position to deal from dal Hall.

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Speaker 2: Yet, great arm.

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Speaker 1: This is a lefty who can throw the upper nineties

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Speaker 1: and he did out of the bullpen last year. A

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Speaker 1: couple of things concerned me, Joe, and I want to

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Speaker 1: get your take on this in terms of the way

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Speaker 1: he throws a baseball.

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Speaker 2: He's got a really long arm swing.

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Speaker 1: He's got what I call a forearm flyout with that

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Speaker 1: that forum is really far away from his head. You

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Speaker 1: look a guy like Corbyn Burns and that that forum

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Speaker 1: is really packed in closely at Greg Maddox type Bartolo

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Speaker 1: Cologne long long arm swing where that ball is pointed

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Speaker 1: towards center field. And I know a lot of youth

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Speaker 1: coaches would teach that, I'm not a huge believer in

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Speaker 1: just pointing the ball towards center field with a long

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Speaker 1: arm swing. He has had some elbow ten and ice issues,

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Speaker 1: stress reaction in the elbow. He's got some walk issues,

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent walk rate in Triple A. So to me,

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Speaker 1: they're not sure with the injury history and the mechanics

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Speaker 1: that he's going to be a starting pitcher in the

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Speaker 1: big leagues. Really good arm reminds me a little bit

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Speaker 1: of aj Puck, And you know, the A's and Marlins

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Speaker 1: went back and forth.

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Speaker 2: Can he start?

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Speaker 1: Can he relieve he's better as a relief pitcher. So

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Speaker 1: obviously you just talked about starters, Joe. I think your

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Speaker 1: value is much higher as a starting pitcher if you

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Speaker 1: can go six innings. But he may be looking at

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Speaker 1: being and there's nothing wrong with this, don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: But the preference is to start, and I'm sure they'll

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Speaker 1: give him a shot, but he could be a dominant

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Speaker 1: bullpen arm. And you know that was the Josh Hader track.

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Speaker 1: You know, a guy who had a long arm swing,

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Speaker 1: strikeout stuff much better in the pen as we see.

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Speaker 1: So bottom line is I like the two editions. I

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Speaker 1: think they made some real good decisions. I'm getting these

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Speaker 1: two from Baltimore. The key for me is whether Haul

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Speaker 1: can develop as a starting pitcher or his futures in

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Speaker 1: the bullpen.

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Speaker 3: How tall is he six ' four plus something like that?

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Speaker 1: Six to two yeah, six two left, he's twenty five

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Speaker 1: years old. Was a high school draft pick.

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Speaker 3: I like that better than six or five or sixty six, right,

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Speaker 3: because remember Miller ended up with the Indians and the

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Speaker 3: forty millyea, Andrew right, that's when you when you started talking,

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Speaker 3: I was thinking that guys with the big armswing like that,

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Speaker 3: sometimes it might take them longer. There's so much the

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Speaker 3: time out, there's so there's so much timing involved with

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Speaker 3: that with all those lengthy levers. Man, when the foot hits,

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Speaker 3: all the arm comes around, there's days they feel it. Man,

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Speaker 3: when they feel and everything's in time, they're kind of unhittable,

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Speaker 3: and like you said the other times you mentioned it

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Speaker 3: that the walk rate really goes up, and that's always

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Speaker 3: a concern. The shorter armstroke in the back, even Roger

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Speaker 3: Clemens had short I mean the shortest was k Hill.

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Speaker 3: Kenny Hill had the shortest arm stroke. I think I've

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Speaker 3: ever seen that throws ninety five to ninety seven miles

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Speaker 3: an hour, and it's just it's easier to control a

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Speaker 3: shorter swing like that, so they know what they're seeing,

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Speaker 3: what they're getting. If he's young, I'm assuming he's still

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Speaker 3: a young man, right, the early twenties probably.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's twenty five, twenty five years old.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be more concerning. It be twenty five

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Speaker 3: a little bit. But getting that swing under control, it's

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Speaker 3: not as easy as you think sometimes and a lot

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Speaker 3: of it has to do with the command issues because

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Speaker 3: stuff wise, I'm sure it's going to be there. You've

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Speaker 3: talked about the potential for injury, of course, which happens

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Speaker 3: with everybody. But my take has been guys like that

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Speaker 3: tend to be wild in a sense, or they missed

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Speaker 3: his zone a little bit, but once they figured out,

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Speaker 3: like Andrew Miller did, man that got nasty and you

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Speaker 3: talk about hater and he's got such a not only

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Speaker 3: that arms swing, but a kind of rotation with his

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Speaker 3: shoulders too, which makes it even more difficult to see

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Speaker 3: the ball. And there's also that kind of fear factor

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Speaker 3: from the hitter's perspective. There's a lot of deception involved

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Speaker 3: when guys are able to command that kind of a swing.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a guy too, so it's just one of

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Speaker 3: those things. That's why scouting is so important. You have

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Speaker 3: to rely on people that you know and could go

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Speaker 3: out and look at somebody and for me, some picture

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Speaker 3: like that, I would really want some veteran eyes on him.

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Speaker 3: What do you see there? What you've seen in the past,

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Speaker 3: Pitching coaches that have worked with guys like this, what

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Speaker 3: do you got? How do you make this thing work?

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Speaker 3: That would be a really big question for me regarding

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Speaker 3: the acquisitional process with the guy like that. But I listen,

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Speaker 3: it's interesting. I'm sure he's very good. I'm sure he's

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Speaker 3: going to be good. But that's those are the issues

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Speaker 3: I would be looking at.

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Speaker 1: So to me, Joe right now, and this is not

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Speaker 1: a World Series prediction, but I'll tell you on paper

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Speaker 1: right now to me. The Baltimore Orioles are the best

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Speaker 1: team in the American League. And that's not a knock

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Speaker 1: on the Texas Rangers. They won it all last year.

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Speaker 1: I thought the Rangers would do more in the off season.

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Speaker 1: I thought hater was winding up there. Instead, they were

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Speaker 1: a little bit hamstrong by the uncertainty about the RSNS

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Speaker 1: and how much money's coming in. There still a really,

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Speaker 1: really good team, but I've got to have Baltimore one,

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Speaker 1: Texas two, and maybe New York three. How about that

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Speaker 1: starting out? And again it's early, but on paper right now,

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Speaker 1: I just love what this has done. The Burns trade

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Speaker 1: for Baltimore.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely have to. I mean Baltimore, what they

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Speaker 3: had done last year, they're just inexperienced when he came

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Speaker 3: to the playoffs. Did not play their best games there,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of times you got to get that

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Speaker 3: close in order to really make it work the following season.

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Speaker 3: They do have everything in order right now. And the

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Speaker 3: fact that they know what it takes to get there,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that they do not like the fact

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Speaker 3: that they lost. I mean, there's a motivation and that's

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Speaker 3: that's going to matter with the young group, and it

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Speaker 3: seems like you've talked about you mentioning these guys in

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Speaker 3: regards to potentially long term contracts. Their makeup seems to

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Speaker 3: be outstanding. And that's another component of this that I

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Speaker 3: think isn't spoken about enough when you really want to

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Speaker 3: consider long term contracts. What do you think about this

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Speaker 3: guy and how do you think he's going to hold

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Speaker 3: up over a period of time? Is I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 3: is it going to change him at all? Is it

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Speaker 3: going to remain the same? And I'd have to believe

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Speaker 3: what I've seen. I don't know these kids with Baltimore,

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Speaker 3: but it seems like you're right on with that. So

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Speaker 3: that's that's probably an easy get is to predict or

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Speaker 3: say that they're going to be the best team in

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Speaker 3: the American League. You know what you said with Texas

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Speaker 3: up up absolutely is gonna is going to hold true

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Speaker 3: with Boach there and see why in the front office,

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Speaker 3: I think you're going to see there may be like

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a tough sledding in the beginning,

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Speaker 3: but they're going to get their stuff together. And I

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Speaker 3: don't even know what's Houston's up to these days in

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Speaker 3: New York. New York's very interesting and all of that.

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Speaker 3: Their success, to me, is going to be really going

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Speaker 3: to be contingent upon that pitching staff. In the addition

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Speaker 3: of Stroman Radon making a comeback or not. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot of stuff going on there. But yes, they definitely

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Speaker 3: have the people to be within the top three of

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Speaker 3: the American League.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we mentioned something about a football game coming up, Joe,

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about the Super Bowl and especially

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Speaker 1: decision making by coaches.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is a favorite topic of ours.

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Speaker 1: Leadership, decision making in game, and we can talk about

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Speaker 1: the two coaches who will be making those decisions and

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Speaker 1: will they be making them on their own or will

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Speaker 1: they be getting help.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that next, all right.

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Speaker 1: Joe, we'll talk about you know, from baseball it's the manager,

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Speaker 1: and football it's the head coach. The guy making the

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Speaker 1: decisions has more help now than ever before.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about this a lot. The numbers are great.

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Speaker 1: You go into a game with so much more information

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Speaker 1: than you used to have, and then once that game starts,

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Speaker 1: what happens?

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Speaker 2: Do you rely on the numbers even more so?

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Speaker 1: Do you use it as just informative pieces in your

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Speaker 1: decision making tree. We've got two veteran coaches in the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Here, of course, Andy Reid. I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody's going to tell him how to run a game.

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Speaker 1: He's been around forever, extremely successful. And then Kyle Shanahan,

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Speaker 1: he's forty four years old, he's had twenty one years

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Speaker 1: of coaching experience, eight with the Niners.

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Speaker 2: It's done a fabulous job there. Seventy two and fifty four.

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Speaker 1: He was on KMBR in San Francisco in October. Joe

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Speaker 1: and I want to throw his quotes by you here

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Speaker 1: because I think it's really fascinating because the analytic movement

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Speaker 1: in football really dovetails is what has happened in baseball.

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Speaker 2: It's probably a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Behind, but we're seeing now the effects in football the

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Speaker 1: way that we saw it in baseball. It started, you know,

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Speaker 1: really fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, and it's full

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Speaker 1: on in both sports right now.

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Speaker 2: Here's what he had to say.

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Speaker 1: I've gone to these meetings a lot in other buildings,

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Speaker 1: meeting other teams, and even here you meet with an

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Speaker 1: analytics department and they bring out this whole book and

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Speaker 1: there's two million numbers to memorize. I've watched coaches try

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Speaker 1: to do that and you just melt during games. It's

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Speaker 1: too much info, and you realize most of this stuff

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Speaker 1: is pretty natural, and some of it is fifty to fifty,

435
00:20:16,118 --> 00:20:19,038
Speaker 1: some of it is your preference. I try to keep

436
00:20:19,118 --> 00:20:21,958
Speaker 1: my mind on it and go with what's natural and

437
00:20:21,998 --> 00:20:25,638
Speaker 1: whatever there. And whenever there are these obvious ones like

438
00:20:25,678 --> 00:20:27,638
Speaker 1: when to call time out here with two minutes or

439
00:20:27,638 --> 00:20:30,118
Speaker 1: two thirty, you know, all those things where analytics are

440
00:20:30,118 --> 00:20:33,158
Speaker 1: one hundred percent right with and the math is totally there.

441
00:20:33,838 --> 00:20:36,598
Speaker 2: I don't even want to waste the time to learn.

442
00:20:36,398 --> 00:20:39,558
Speaker 1: That stuff because, hey, guys, when it's that automatic, just

443
00:20:39,678 --> 00:20:42,238
Speaker 1: tell me and that's when I'll do it. But when

444
00:20:42,238 --> 00:20:45,118
Speaker 1: it's not automatic, if it's a fifty to fifty thing,

445
00:20:45,878 --> 00:20:49,358
Speaker 1: just always let me go with my gut and my experience.

446
00:20:49,878 --> 00:20:52,398
Speaker 1: Because I'm always thinking about the three technique. I'm thinking

447
00:20:52,438 --> 00:20:54,278
Speaker 1: about the weather, I'm thinking about the quarterback and the

448
00:20:54,278 --> 00:20:56,278
Speaker 1: other side. I'm thinking about what play I have ready,

449
00:20:56,438 --> 00:20:58,438
Speaker 1: what the fronts are doing, all that stuff.

450
00:20:58,998 --> 00:21:00,078
Speaker 2: I'm not just thinking of.

451
00:21:00,158 --> 00:21:03,078
Speaker 1: Well, over two hundred times in this situation, it's fifty

452
00:21:03,078 --> 00:21:06,038
Speaker 1: eight percent to forty two. So therefore, if you go

453
00:21:06,078 --> 00:21:10,118
Speaker 1: for it, you'll win over time. Well, I'm not playing blackjack.

454
00:21:10,958 --> 00:21:14,078
Speaker 1: I love that this is a coach, and I'm sure

455
00:21:14,078 --> 00:21:16,918
Speaker 1: he's got a deep analytics office there at San Francisco,

456
00:21:17,518 --> 00:21:20,838
Speaker 1: basically saying, guys, I want your help. Thank you for

457
00:21:20,878 --> 00:21:24,638
Speaker 1: your help. But when it comes to nailing a situation

458
00:21:25,038 --> 00:21:28,438
Speaker 1: in real time in a game, there are many more

459
00:21:28,558 --> 00:21:33,318
Speaker 1: factors to consider, so the decision rests with me. I

460
00:21:33,958 --> 00:21:36,558
Speaker 1: just love the way he approached that, Joe. Nobody's saying

461
00:21:36,558 --> 00:21:40,158
Speaker 1: he doesn't like analytics. He's saying, in those moments of

462
00:21:40,198 --> 00:21:43,478
Speaker 1: crunch time, there's just too many factors that the numbers

463
00:21:43,558 --> 00:21:44,638
Speaker 1: cannot account for.

464
00:21:45,398 --> 00:21:47,238
Speaker 3: Well did I say that or did he say that?

465
00:21:47,238 --> 00:21:48,238
Speaker 2: That's unbelievable.

466
00:21:48,998 --> 00:21:51,598
Speaker 3: And when you started that diatribe there I was. I

467
00:21:51,638 --> 00:21:54,598
Speaker 3: wrote down two words before you even began, confusing or helpful.

468
00:21:54,958 --> 00:21:57,678
Speaker 3: That's exactly what I wrote down. And then on top

469
00:21:57,718 --> 00:21:59,638
Speaker 3: of all that, I'm not gonna tip my hand, but

470
00:22:00,478 --> 00:22:02,918
Speaker 3: my quote for today is based on decision making. So

471
00:22:04,358 --> 00:22:08,718
Speaker 3: yes to what Shanahan had said, that is a perfect description,

472
00:22:09,518 --> 00:22:11,798
Speaker 3: and it pretty much boils down to, yes, I want

473
00:22:11,838 --> 00:22:15,118
Speaker 3: all this information. Yes, thank you, you know, dropping on me,

474
00:22:15,198 --> 00:22:17,638
Speaker 3: But like he said, also, I want to know the

475
00:22:17,638 --> 00:22:20,638
Speaker 3: absolutes the stuff that's like he said, fifty to fifty

476
00:22:21,798 --> 00:22:27,118
Speaker 3: can be very confusing. And to attempt to even take

477
00:22:27,198 --> 00:22:31,438
Speaker 3: all of this, these these volumes of information presented to

478
00:22:31,598 --> 00:22:33,878
Speaker 3: based on even just one major league game, one major

479
00:22:33,918 --> 00:22:36,358
Speaker 3: league game, not even like that's one game a week

480
00:22:36,398 --> 00:22:38,078
Speaker 3: that you get to digest. This is one game on

481
00:22:38,118 --> 00:22:40,518
Speaker 3: a Monday, then there's another game on a Tuesday, and

482
00:22:40,638 --> 00:22:44,638
Speaker 3: all this stuff that needs to be devoured and utilized.

483
00:22:44,718 --> 00:22:48,318
Speaker 3: It's just impossible. And he mentioned that there's so many

484
00:22:48,398 --> 00:22:50,918
Speaker 3: variables that occurred during occur during the course of a

485
00:22:50,998 --> 00:22:54,158
Speaker 3: game that it's there's no way for numbers to be

486
00:22:54,238 --> 00:22:56,918
Speaker 3: able to predict all of that in advance and matter.

487
00:22:57,078 --> 00:23:00,238
Speaker 3: And yes, I love that if it's an absolute and

488
00:23:00,238 --> 00:23:02,478
Speaker 3: that's kind of what I tell my guys, Like something

489
00:23:02,518 --> 00:23:05,478
Speaker 3: you feel very strongly about, let me know, let me

490
00:23:05,518 --> 00:23:07,838
Speaker 3: know if you feel that strongly. And again, that's another

491
00:23:07,838 --> 00:23:10,718
Speaker 3: way I guess saying in absolute, yes, I need to

492
00:23:10,758 --> 00:23:12,838
Speaker 3: know that so that I will incorporate that. But again,

493
00:23:12,878 --> 00:23:16,118
Speaker 3: if it's again, if you do it like this, if

494
00:23:16,198 --> 00:23:18,878
Speaker 3: you choose this route, it's gonna work. Like you said,

495
00:23:18,918 --> 00:23:21,438
Speaker 3: fifty eight percent of the time, that's not good enough. Man,

496
00:23:21,598 --> 00:23:25,678
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, because that particular day you're playing. What kind

497
00:23:25,678 --> 00:23:28,598
Speaker 3: of a frame of mind is your team within the

498
00:23:28,638 --> 00:23:30,798
Speaker 3: picture that you're starting that night, how kind of a

499
00:23:30,878 --> 00:23:33,198
Speaker 3: role or non roles the other team been on. There's

500
00:23:33,238 --> 00:23:35,518
Speaker 3: there's so many things that consider that the number just

501
00:23:35,558 --> 00:23:39,798
Speaker 3: cannot the number lax emotion, It has no feel for

502
00:23:39,918 --> 00:23:43,518
Speaker 3: the day, and it's generated. I think he kind of

503
00:23:43,518 --> 00:23:46,678
Speaker 3: insinuated this based on kind of a bias of the

504
00:23:46,678 --> 00:23:49,358
Speaker 3: group that's creating the numbers. All those things have to

505
00:23:49,398 --> 00:23:51,558
Speaker 3: be considered and good for him, and of course, like

506
00:23:51,598 --> 00:23:54,358
Speaker 3: you said, Andy Reid, my god, I would believe that. Again,

507
00:23:54,558 --> 00:23:57,678
Speaker 3: he would tell his group listen, if you really believe something,

508
00:23:57,758 --> 00:24:01,038
Speaker 3: tell me it. Otherwise keep it to yourself. And more

509
00:24:01,078 --> 00:24:03,918
Speaker 3: than anything, I think it's been obvious that the department,

510
00:24:04,238 --> 00:24:06,638
Speaker 3: the analytical departments have been involved in football based on

511
00:24:06,718 --> 00:24:09,198
Speaker 3: going for it on fourth downs. It really kind of

512
00:24:09,238 --> 00:24:11,878
Speaker 3: gives the coaches courage to try different things because they

513
00:24:11,958 --> 00:24:14,438
Speaker 3: know they're going to be supported if it fails. And again,

514
00:24:14,518 --> 00:24:18,158
Speaker 3: the safety and nefferent decision making is analytics, so it's

515
00:24:18,198 --> 00:24:20,398
Speaker 3: not really knowing anything. That's another thing that people have

516
00:24:20,478 --> 00:24:23,958
Speaker 3: understand the analytics is really that you don't really know

517
00:24:24,638 --> 00:24:26,278
Speaker 3: what you're talking about. All you know is what the

518
00:24:26,358 --> 00:24:29,598
Speaker 3: numbers say that you're talking about, And there's a difference

519
00:24:29,638 --> 00:24:33,678
Speaker 3: between that and Shanahan was really speaking about knowing based

520
00:24:33,718 --> 00:24:37,878
Speaker 3: on experience, where the numbers just know what it's based

521
00:24:37,918 --> 00:24:42,198
Speaker 3: on percentages, spit out of a machine. Two different god worlds. Completely.

522
00:24:42,478 --> 00:24:45,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love the blackjack analogy that he made

523
00:24:45,718 --> 00:24:48,678
Speaker 1: because he said, you know, I'm not going to sit

524
00:24:48,838 --> 00:24:52,478
Speaker 1: at a table for an hour, and over time the

525
00:24:52,518 --> 00:24:54,558
Speaker 1: odds will work in my advantage.

526
00:24:54,638 --> 00:24:56,398
Speaker 2: He said, I've got one shot.

527
00:24:57,038 --> 00:25:00,638
Speaker 1: So on those decisions, I don't even want to talk

528
00:25:00,678 --> 00:25:04,158
Speaker 1: about it, meaning the analytics. And here's an example, Joe.

529
00:25:04,198 --> 00:25:06,638
Speaker 1: You mentioned the fourth down, and I think it's great

530
00:25:06,678 --> 00:25:10,238
Speaker 1: that the analytics have shown that in a larger picture,

531
00:25:10,798 --> 00:25:11,838
Speaker 1: teams should.

532
00:25:11,598 --> 00:25:14,358
Speaker 2: Be going for it on fourth down more, and they are.

533
00:25:14,758 --> 00:25:17,238
Speaker 1: I think the football has really changed in that regard

534
00:25:17,318 --> 00:25:20,038
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, just always try for the

535
00:25:20,038 --> 00:25:23,558
Speaker 1: points and or punt the ball to fourth down. There

536
00:25:23,558 --> 00:25:26,758
Speaker 1: are many more times teams go for it on fourth down,

537
00:25:26,878 --> 00:25:29,118
Speaker 1: and I think analytics have opened that window, and I

538
00:25:29,158 --> 00:25:33,318
Speaker 1: think overall it's a great way to win a football game.

539
00:25:33,558 --> 00:25:37,158
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. When you're watching the game on TV.

540
00:25:37,398 --> 00:25:39,598
Speaker 1: I don't know if this will happen on this Super Bowl,

541
00:25:39,678 --> 00:25:42,358
Speaker 1: but you've seen it, Joe. It's a fourth down situation

542
00:25:42,558 --> 00:25:45,678
Speaker 1: and graphic comes up on the screen that says, analytics

543
00:25:45,678 --> 00:25:50,318
Speaker 1: say go for it, right, like it's just an obvious answer.

544
00:25:50,958 --> 00:25:52,798
Speaker 2: Well, I thought this was fascinating.

545
00:25:52,878 --> 00:25:55,718
Speaker 1: Remember that game forty nine Ers Lions where Dan Campbell

546
00:25:55,758 --> 00:25:58,278
Speaker 1: had a couple of options to go there on fourth down, right.

547
00:25:58,358 --> 00:25:59,318
Speaker 2: We've talked about that.

548
00:25:59,718 --> 00:26:04,838
Speaker 1: Well, according to analytics, when the Lions first fourth down

549
00:26:04,878 --> 00:26:08,878
Speaker 1: call with the lines ahead by fourteen, the analytics gave

550
00:26:08,918 --> 00:26:12,598
Speaker 1: Detroit a ninety five or ninety point five percent chance

551
00:26:12,678 --> 00:26:15,718
Speaker 1: to win by going for it and a ninety point

552
00:26:15,838 --> 00:26:19,118
Speaker 1: three percent chance to win by kicking a field goal.

553
00:26:19,958 --> 00:26:23,878
Speaker 1: The difference was zero point two percent. And then the

554
00:26:23,998 --> 00:26:27,838
Speaker 1: second decision, the win probability for a field goal was

555
00:26:27,958 --> 00:26:31,598
Speaker 1: thirty eight point eight percent and by going for it

556
00:26:31,598 --> 00:26:35,078
Speaker 1: it was thirty nine point one percent. That's a zero

557
00:26:35,198 --> 00:26:40,358
Speaker 1: point three percent edge. So I'm telling you, as a fan,

558
00:26:40,558 --> 00:26:42,398
Speaker 1: are you're watching the game, if they're gonna put a

559
00:26:42,398 --> 00:26:46,958
Speaker 1: graphic up there that says analytics say go for it, folks,

560
00:26:46,758 --> 00:26:49,438
Speaker 1: that's basically a rounding error. When you're talking about a

561
00:26:49,518 --> 00:26:52,838
Speaker 1: less than one percent chance that the quote unquote right

562
00:26:52,918 --> 00:26:54,438
Speaker 1: decision is to go for it.

563
00:26:54,878 --> 00:26:56,238
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll defer to the coach.

564
00:26:56,358 --> 00:26:59,038
Speaker 1: I mean again, my decision was kick the field goal

565
00:27:00,158 --> 00:27:01,878
Speaker 1: without really looking at any numbers.

566
00:27:02,278 --> 00:27:04,518
Speaker 2: He wanted to go for it. That's ain't is wrong.

567
00:27:04,598 --> 00:27:07,878
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not saying he went by analytics, but I'm

568
00:27:07,918 --> 00:27:10,278
Speaker 1: telling you as a fan, if you see it says

569
00:27:10,318 --> 00:27:13,158
Speaker 1: analytics say go for it, just keep in mind, people,

570
00:27:13,598 --> 00:27:17,038
Speaker 1: it's not blackjack, and sometimes the numbers are razor thin,

571
00:27:17,198 --> 00:27:18,958
Speaker 1: as they were twice in this case.

572
00:27:19,478 --> 00:27:21,758
Speaker 3: And again by just by going for it, if it fails,

573
00:27:21,878 --> 00:27:25,278
Speaker 3: it's okay. He doesn't have to really answer it anybody.

574
00:27:25,318 --> 00:27:28,718
Speaker 3: And if somebody media wized asks him that question afterwards,

575
00:27:28,718 --> 00:27:31,118
Speaker 3: you could easily say, well, if he wanted to that,

576
00:27:31,198 --> 00:27:34,438
Speaker 3: the analytics supported my decision, which then is supported by

577
00:27:34,478 --> 00:27:37,318
Speaker 3: the front office and the people within the organization. And

578
00:27:37,358 --> 00:27:40,358
Speaker 3: believe me, that's important. People. I hope you understand that

579
00:27:40,358 --> 00:27:42,918
Speaker 3: that is really important. From a coach's perspective. To be

580
00:27:42,958 --> 00:27:45,518
Speaker 3: a lone wolf, you have to be Andy Reid or

581
00:27:45,718 --> 00:27:48,758
Speaker 3: Shanahan in his situation right now or at Belichick. Is

582
00:27:48,798 --> 00:27:50,718
Speaker 3: Belichick a couple of years ago went for it on

583
00:27:50,758 --> 00:27:52,958
Speaker 3: fourth down. I remember, I can't remember exactly the year,

584
00:27:52,998 --> 00:27:55,918
Speaker 3: but it was it failed, and then he was blasted

585
00:27:55,918 --> 00:27:58,478
Speaker 3: for going on and fourth down, where today, if a

586
00:27:58,478 --> 00:28:00,798
Speaker 3: guy goes for it on fourth down, it is not successful,

587
00:28:00,918 --> 00:28:05,918
Speaker 3: not nearly as blasted public about it or within his organization.

588
00:28:06,478 --> 00:28:08,958
Speaker 3: That's what you have to understand that when the courage

589
00:28:08,958 --> 00:28:11,318
Speaker 3: of a lot of the coaches is based on support,

590
00:28:12,118 --> 00:28:14,638
Speaker 3: and there's a time when you did not have the supporters.

591
00:28:14,718 --> 00:28:17,438
Speaker 3: Maybe even today, some groups don't have the support to

592
00:28:17,518 --> 00:28:20,998
Speaker 3: do what they're doing based on field knowledge, experience, whatever.

593
00:28:21,558 --> 00:28:24,878
Speaker 3: And if it's good, it's good, but nobody really patched

594
00:28:24,918 --> 00:28:27,118
Speaker 3: them on the back. It's almost like, hey, just you know,

595
00:28:27,198 --> 00:28:29,478
Speaker 3: next time, consider this because you might have been lucky

596
00:28:29,518 --> 00:28:32,318
Speaker 3: according to people, and that's kind of a thing of

597
00:28:32,358 --> 00:28:36,718
Speaker 3: the past. So the decision making based on analytics normally

598
00:28:36,758 --> 00:28:39,038
Speaker 3: today is supported by a large group of people within

599
00:28:39,078 --> 00:28:41,678
Speaker 3: an organization. So it's kind of a safe route for

600
00:28:41,718 --> 00:28:42,478
Speaker 3: a coach to take.

601
00:28:42,838 --> 00:28:45,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well said, the safe route because they are

602
00:28:46,438 --> 00:28:49,718
Speaker 1: these departments have gotten larger and they are empowered. I mean,

603
00:28:49,798 --> 00:28:53,198
Speaker 1: let's face it, most people who own football or baseball

604
00:28:53,198 --> 00:28:56,678
Speaker 1: teams come from the business world, and the business world

605
00:28:56,718 --> 00:29:01,398
Speaker 1: is run on analytics and algorithms and logistics, and that's

606
00:29:01,438 --> 00:29:05,478
Speaker 1: the language business people understand really well. It works for

607
00:29:05,518 --> 00:29:08,358
Speaker 1: them as far as running their businesses. Why wouldn't it

608
00:29:08,398 --> 00:29:11,238
Speaker 1: work in a sport, right, So I completely get it,

609
00:29:11,278 --> 00:29:14,278
Speaker 1: and no one's you know, I really don't like the

610
00:29:14,318 --> 00:29:17,198
Speaker 1: way it is portrayed sometimes that it's an either or

611
00:29:17,398 --> 00:29:19,838
Speaker 1: you know, you're either on board with analytics or you're not.

612
00:29:20,078 --> 00:29:22,278
Speaker 1: Of course everybody is on I think it's a matter

613
00:29:22,358 --> 00:29:24,238
Speaker 1: of a balance, Joe. I think it's a matter of

614
00:29:24,278 --> 00:29:27,758
Speaker 1: how it's applied, how it's used. And in the past,

615
00:29:27,878 --> 00:29:31,238
Speaker 1: without analytics, there was probably too much reliance on gut

616
00:29:31,438 --> 00:29:33,918
Speaker 1: and the pendulum almost has swung so far the other

617
00:29:33,998 --> 00:29:37,598
Speaker 1: way that the rebalancing now is what we're talking about.

618
00:29:37,678 --> 00:29:39,758
Speaker 2: I think that's what Kyle Shanahan is talking about.

619
00:29:39,958 --> 00:29:41,998
Speaker 3: You're right on with all that, because listen as you're

620
00:29:41,998 --> 00:29:44,278
Speaker 3: saying that, I'm remembering, you know, when I first came

621
00:29:44,278 --> 00:29:46,798
Speaker 3: outboard with the Rays, we were getting into that more

622
00:29:46,838 --> 00:29:49,838
Speaker 3: than anybody else was, and I had already been into

623
00:29:49,878 --> 00:29:51,558
Speaker 3: it with my own methods. Part of that with the

624
00:29:51,598 --> 00:29:53,798
Speaker 3: Angel they did not have all the sophistication and all

625
00:29:53,838 --> 00:29:56,358
Speaker 3: the numbers and all the computers and this bevy of

626
00:29:56,398 --> 00:29:59,198
Speaker 3: guys working within an office, but there was time. I

627
00:29:59,198 --> 00:30:03,278
Speaker 3: mean I would ask specific questions of my analytical group

628
00:30:03,558 --> 00:30:05,638
Speaker 3: regard aring things that I saw during the course of

629
00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:08,238
Speaker 3: the game that they would then include on my sheet

630
00:30:08,278 --> 00:30:12,398
Speaker 3: the next day, things that I thought were important, and

631
00:30:12,398 --> 00:30:14,398
Speaker 3: then I would ask the question. They would then, like

632
00:30:14,398 --> 00:30:15,998
Speaker 3: I said, it would be there the next day, and

633
00:30:16,078 --> 00:30:19,118
Speaker 3: because of that exchange, they would probably come back at

634
00:30:19,158 --> 00:30:21,718
Speaker 3: me with something else based on what I had said,

635
00:30:21,758 --> 00:30:24,038
Speaker 3: what they concluded and now have you thought about this?

636
00:30:24,478 --> 00:30:26,998
Speaker 3: And that happened often and it was very helpful. I

637
00:30:27,038 --> 00:30:29,078
Speaker 3: mean when it came down when I first started there

638
00:30:29,118 --> 00:30:31,958
Speaker 3: with the rays, the bullpen usage, you know, there's different

639
00:30:31,998 --> 00:30:34,398
Speaker 3: guys that I had, And again when it comes down

640
00:30:34,438 --> 00:30:39,998
Speaker 3: to reverse split guys, the analytics could really identify an

641
00:30:40,078 --> 00:30:43,238
Speaker 3: a reverse split guy, both hitter and pitcher. And that's

642
00:30:43,318 --> 00:30:45,878
Speaker 3: very helpful because you're going to start making decisions, like

643
00:30:45,958 --> 00:30:48,198
Speaker 3: the time I brought Jp hall and to pitch to

644
00:30:49,118 --> 00:30:52,758
Speaker 3: Albert Pulholtz in Saint Louis and it's like, what are

645
00:30:52,758 --> 00:30:55,478
Speaker 3: you doing? And he jammed them and hit a ground

646
00:30:55,518 --> 00:30:58,838
Speaker 3: ball to second base because JP was so good at

647
00:30:58,838 --> 00:31:01,758
Speaker 3: that front hip comeback or to right handed hitters. Even

648
00:31:01,798 --> 00:31:04,398
Speaker 3: that we threw eighty six miles an hour. It is

649
00:31:04,478 --> 00:31:06,638
Speaker 3: kind of like a left handed Kyle Hendricks. But I

650
00:31:06,798 --> 00:31:10,438
Speaker 3: was supported by the numbers, based on the analytical numbers

651
00:31:10,438 --> 00:31:13,238
Speaker 3: that I saw what I thought I liked about jpl

652
00:31:13,278 --> 00:31:14,958
Speaker 3: up the front hip stuff. But now it's saying, yeah,

653
00:31:15,038 --> 00:31:17,318
Speaker 3: if you looked at the number, really read well against

654
00:31:17,358 --> 00:31:20,078
Speaker 3: Albert in that situation, So let's go for it. There's

655
00:31:20,118 --> 00:31:22,958
Speaker 3: a lot of confidence is gained through that. So all

656
00:31:23,038 --> 00:31:25,678
Speaker 3: the balance. You said, the word balance, it's so important.

657
00:31:25,718 --> 00:31:28,998
Speaker 3: I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand. Again,

658
00:31:29,038 --> 00:31:32,078
Speaker 3: I've talked about the analytical departments. There's a lot of

659
00:31:32,078 --> 00:31:35,198
Speaker 3: redundancy in that, and again I think they can be

660
00:31:35,278 --> 00:31:38,358
Speaker 3: called down you want it. There's things that you want

661
00:31:38,398 --> 00:31:41,518
Speaker 3: and shanhandle to ask his group for some specifics. I'm

662
00:31:41,518 --> 00:31:44,878
Speaker 3: sure Andy Reid asks his group for some specifics, but

663
00:31:44,998 --> 00:31:48,238
Speaker 3: you can't handle all of it. It's impossible. The teams

664
00:31:48,238 --> 00:31:51,638
Speaker 3: with better players are going to win, and it's easy

665
00:31:51,678 --> 00:31:55,078
Speaker 3: to say that. You know, both Kansas City and the

666
00:31:55,158 --> 00:31:57,278
Speaker 3: Niners have among the best players in the league and

667
00:31:57,278 --> 00:31:58,958
Speaker 3: they happen to be playing in the Super Bowl. What

668
00:31:58,998 --> 00:31:59,718
Speaker 3: a coincidence.

669
00:32:00,038 --> 00:32:03,718
Speaker 1: You know, you use that word courage for a manager's

670
00:32:03,758 --> 00:32:09,158
Speaker 1: life as coach to make some decisions that defy analytics. Unfortunately,

671
00:32:09,198 --> 00:32:11,758
Speaker 1: you're right. You know, I also like the word conviction.

672
00:32:12,078 --> 00:32:15,518
Speaker 1: It does take someone who's you know, very secure both

673
00:32:16,278 --> 00:32:20,438
Speaker 1: self confidence and secure in his job to make those

674
00:32:20,518 --> 00:32:22,438
Speaker 1: kind of decisions. And that's why, you know, I love

675
00:32:22,478 --> 00:32:25,478
Speaker 1: some of these things that happened and in the Super Bowl,

676
00:32:25,998 --> 00:32:29,598
Speaker 1: whether it's Sean Peyton kicking an on side kick, the

677
00:32:29,678 --> 00:32:32,118
Speaker 1: year A Belichick had a young Tom Brady and decided

678
00:32:32,158 --> 00:32:34,038
Speaker 1: not to run out the clock but to go for it,

679
00:32:34,278 --> 00:32:37,358
Speaker 1: and they won the Super Bowl on a rally when

680
00:32:37,398 --> 00:32:40,598
Speaker 1: some people thought he should just play for overtime. In

681
00:32:40,638 --> 00:32:42,918
Speaker 1: the case of Pete Carroll throwing the ball and Giants

682
00:32:42,918 --> 00:32:45,358
Speaker 1: stadium on the one yard line didn't work out. But

683
00:32:46,078 --> 00:32:48,878
Speaker 1: I believe, Joe, in this football game, you're going to

684
00:32:48,998 --> 00:32:50,798
Speaker 1: see something like that happen.

685
00:32:50,998 --> 00:32:52,918
Speaker 2: First of all, you've got the two weeks to prepare.

686
00:32:53,478 --> 00:32:56,718
Speaker 1: You've got two coaches who, to me do have conviction

687
00:32:56,998 --> 00:32:59,158
Speaker 1: to do something out of the box. And Andy Reid

688
00:32:59,158 --> 00:33:02,198
Speaker 1: to me, has always always been great about that. I'm

689
00:33:02,238 --> 00:33:04,878
Speaker 1: telling you right now, Andy Reid has something up his sleeve.

690
00:33:05,318 --> 00:33:08,198
Speaker 1: He loves doing this to keep his players loose, give

691
00:33:08,238 --> 00:33:11,678
Speaker 1: them a new play, a trick, play, a gadget in

692
00:33:11,718 --> 00:33:14,958
Speaker 1: the course of practice time to lighten things up, especially

693
00:33:14,998 --> 00:33:17,238
Speaker 1: with the two weeks leading up to the game. Do

694
00:33:17,358 --> 00:33:19,758
Speaker 1: not be surprised that he pulls something out of his

695
00:33:19,758 --> 00:33:22,158
Speaker 1: hat and let's say it's going to work. But I

696
00:33:22,318 --> 00:33:25,998
Speaker 1: love when they have the conviction, especially in the game,

697
00:33:26,038 --> 00:33:28,478
Speaker 1: of that magnitude to do something outside the box.

698
00:33:28,998 --> 00:33:31,438
Speaker 3: Safety squeeze. I mean, you're talking about the safety squeeze.

699
00:33:31,638 --> 00:33:35,638
Speaker 3: We won that game playoff game against the Cardinals. Jamie Garcia.

700
00:33:35,718 --> 00:33:37,718
Speaker 3: Heimy Garcia was pitching, and we went back to back

701
00:33:37,758 --> 00:33:40,598
Speaker 3: safeties and that was the end of the game right there,

702
00:33:40,638 --> 00:33:43,798
Speaker 3: and probably the end of the series. Little things like that,

703
00:33:43,918 --> 00:33:45,878
Speaker 3: and not only the fact that it worked, but what

704
00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:49,158
Speaker 3: it does to their team mentally and confidence wise, and

705
00:33:49,198 --> 00:33:51,558
Speaker 3: then what it does to your team in regards to

706
00:33:51,558 --> 00:33:54,318
Speaker 3: the ability to execute in that moment something that you

707
00:33:54,398 --> 00:33:56,958
Speaker 3: had practiced and he comes to the forefront and all

708
00:33:56,958 --> 00:34:00,438
Speaker 3: of a sudden, it's such a difference maker in attitude

709
00:34:01,118 --> 00:34:03,878
Speaker 3: and like I said, confidence, things that are you just

710
00:34:04,038 --> 00:34:08,598
Speaker 3: cannot evaluate necessarily, not at all through numbers. But it's felt.

711
00:34:08,998 --> 00:34:11,958
Speaker 3: It's absolutely felt, and you're in a dugout man and

712
00:34:12,038 --> 00:34:14,438
Speaker 3: things start shifting, and we talked about this that so

713
00:34:14,518 --> 00:34:16,318
Speaker 3: I like to stand on the top step of the dugout.

714
00:34:16,358 --> 00:34:18,998
Speaker 3: I could feel, you could feel through the crowd into

715
00:34:19,038 --> 00:34:21,078
Speaker 3: the other side, and it looks on their faces. You

716
00:34:21,118 --> 00:34:23,998
Speaker 3: could see and feel, Okay, this is what's going on.

717
00:34:24,478 --> 00:34:27,438
Speaker 3: Your guys know it. Their guys know it, and all

718
00:34:27,438 --> 00:34:31,398
Speaker 3: of a sudden advantage, whether Cubs, rays or Angels, you

719
00:34:31,758 --> 00:34:36,318
Speaker 3: feel that, and that's it. You prepare. Another one was

720
00:34:36,358 --> 00:34:39,078
Speaker 3: Anthony Rizzo when we slaughtered in between the mound and

721
00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:41,438
Speaker 3: first space to take away the bunt when the National

722
00:34:41,478 --> 00:34:43,278
Speaker 3: League was still in the National League. We got I

723
00:34:43,278 --> 00:34:45,438
Speaker 3: don't know how many double plays on balls bunted back

724
00:34:45,478 --> 00:34:48,278
Speaker 3: to Anthony by pictures. You don't do it just against anybody,

725
00:34:48,278 --> 00:34:50,878
Speaker 3: but versus pitchers. And then all of a sudden, everybody

726
00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:53,758
Speaker 3: stopped bunting against this because we took the bunt away,

727
00:34:54,158 --> 00:34:56,638
Speaker 3: which I was good with because now the pictures swinging

728
00:34:56,718 --> 00:34:58,958
Speaker 3: the bat. So these are the little things that would

729
00:34:58,998 --> 00:35:02,678
Speaker 3: really boaster the attitude and confidence of your group, but

730
00:35:02,838 --> 00:35:04,678
Speaker 3: it takes practice to take to buy, and it takes

731
00:35:04,718 --> 00:35:07,918
Speaker 3: commitment from the entire group in order to make it work.

732
00:35:08,118 --> 00:35:10,078
Speaker 2: Hey, we need to take a quick break here, Joe.

733
00:35:10,118 --> 00:35:12,278
Speaker 1: But when we get back on the Book of Joe,

734
00:35:12,758 --> 00:35:16,158
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about two of your former players.

735
00:35:16,718 --> 00:35:22,198
Speaker 1: One is retired and one maybe still playing. We'll see.

736
00:35:22,238 --> 00:35:36,718
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this. Welcome back to

737
00:35:36,718 --> 00:35:40,278
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast, Joe Madden. I know we've

738
00:35:40,318 --> 00:35:44,438
Speaker 1: talked a lot about glue guys, and Evan Longoria had

739
00:35:44,478 --> 00:35:46,398
Speaker 1: to be a glue guy for you, even at a

740
00:35:46,398 --> 00:35:46,998
Speaker 1: young age.

741
00:35:47,878 --> 00:35:50,118
Speaker 2: And he's at a situation now where he had a

742
00:35:50,158 --> 00:35:51,038
Speaker 2: good year, a.

743
00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:54,238
Speaker 1: Good finish to his season for the Arizona Diamondbacks, made

744
00:35:54,238 --> 00:35:58,758
Speaker 1: it to the World Series with that team, key contributor unsigned.

745
00:35:58,798 --> 00:36:01,678
Speaker 1: As of now, he is undecided about whether he's going

746
00:36:01,718 --> 00:36:03,958
Speaker 1: to keep playing or not. I can tell you he

747
00:36:03,998 --> 00:36:08,158
Speaker 1: has nineteen hundred and thirty hits, just seventy hits short

748
00:36:08,158 --> 00:36:11,318
Speaker 1: of two thousand. He's got three hundred and forty two

749
00:36:11,558 --> 00:36:14,718
Speaker 1: home runs, so just eight short of three fifty. There's

750
00:36:14,718 --> 00:36:17,318
Speaker 1: only been seventy six players in the history of the

751
00:36:17,398 --> 00:36:20,078
Speaker 1: game with two thousand hits and three hundred and fifty homers.

752
00:36:20,318 --> 00:36:23,638
Speaker 1: That is an incredible career that he has had. I

753
00:36:23,718 --> 00:36:26,838
Speaker 1: don't know if it's the end, Joe for Evan Longoria.

754
00:36:27,278 --> 00:36:29,438
Speaker 1: From what I saw last year, you can still play.

755
00:36:29,478 --> 00:36:31,518
Speaker 1: You gotta be careful about the volume and the workload

756
00:36:31,518 --> 00:36:33,558
Speaker 1: that you give him. But I think he's a guy

757
00:36:33,598 --> 00:36:37,038
Speaker 1: you want around your players, especially a team that is

758
00:36:37,158 --> 00:36:39,558
Speaker 1: in contention. I look at a team like the Mets,

759
00:36:39,838 --> 00:36:41,758
Speaker 1: I look at a team like the Cubs. I think

760
00:36:41,798 --> 00:36:43,438
Speaker 1: he's a good fit for a few teams. Those are

761
00:36:43,478 --> 00:36:43,918
Speaker 1: two that.

762
00:36:43,838 --> 00:36:44,718
Speaker 2: Come to mind for me.

763
00:36:45,118 --> 00:36:47,038
Speaker 1: Obviously, it's going to be up to Evan whether he

764
00:36:47,078 --> 00:36:48,478
Speaker 1: wants to take a deal with someone.

765
00:36:49,718 --> 00:36:51,078
Speaker 2: But I think he can still play.

766
00:36:51,678 --> 00:36:54,558
Speaker 1: And listen, you've had him, Joe, you know what he

767
00:36:54,558 --> 00:36:56,998
Speaker 1: can bring to a team. Give me your thoughts on

768
00:36:57,038 --> 00:37:00,318
Speaker 1: the guy who might be looking at retirement.

769
00:37:00,358 --> 00:37:02,118
Speaker 2: But I think still has some baseball left.

770
00:37:02,398 --> 00:37:04,998
Speaker 3: Yeah, if he thinks he does, he does. That's that's

771
00:37:05,078 --> 00:37:08,078
Speaker 3: first of all with me. He would not be going

772
00:37:08,118 --> 00:37:10,998
Speaker 3: out there putting himself out there. He's not the kind

773
00:37:11,038 --> 00:37:12,478
Speaker 3: of guy I don't think that would want to go

774
00:37:12,558 --> 00:37:15,558
Speaker 3: out there just to chase some numbers. He's always loved

775
00:37:15,558 --> 00:37:17,478
Speaker 3: to play the game. And if he thinks that he can,

776
00:37:18,158 --> 00:37:20,198
Speaker 3: then I think he can. He's a Long Beach State guy.

777
00:37:20,358 --> 00:37:22,638
Speaker 3: He's a dirt bag, And God do I love those players,

778
00:37:23,038 --> 00:37:26,118
Speaker 3: Dave Stone, that group that really created that program out there.

779
00:37:26,198 --> 00:37:28,718
Speaker 3: Mike Weathers followed, I'm a big fan. I used to

780
00:37:28,878 --> 00:37:31,878
Speaker 3: go out there right around January with Kenny Riviza and

781
00:37:31,998 --> 00:37:35,318
Speaker 3: practice my opening day speech to my teams with the

782
00:37:35,398 --> 00:37:39,118
Speaker 3: Long Beach State dirt bags. It's like a dirty old

783
00:37:39,158 --> 00:37:42,438
Speaker 3: clubhouse at blair Field. God did I love. I still

784
00:37:42,478 --> 00:37:44,998
Speaker 3: love that place. That is the essence almost of minor

785
00:37:45,078 --> 00:37:48,518
Speaker 3: league baseball. It's even beyond collegiate baseball. And Longo is

786
00:37:48,558 --> 00:37:51,158
Speaker 3: a product of that. He's a product of that environment.

787
00:37:51,358 --> 00:37:53,478
Speaker 3: To Lwitski was another kid that went there. There's a

788
00:37:53,518 --> 00:37:56,838
Speaker 3: bunch the tarre Weaver. I mean, I love any player

789
00:37:56,838 --> 00:38:00,758
Speaker 3: that came from that situation. What's his name McNeil right now,

790
00:38:01,518 --> 00:38:03,638
Speaker 3: I would take that guy. So if this kid says

791
00:38:03,638 --> 00:38:06,198
Speaker 3: he want the play, he wants to play, and I wrote,

792
00:38:06,238 --> 00:38:07,958
Speaker 3: I wrote down the Mets before you said that. I

793
00:38:07,998 --> 00:38:11,118
Speaker 3: know they're having issues with third base. The thing about Longo,

794
00:38:11,558 --> 00:38:13,438
Speaker 3: You're right, I would match him up. And this is

795
00:38:13,758 --> 00:38:17,078
Speaker 3: an analytical situation for me, like Longo, there's going to

796
00:38:17,158 --> 00:38:20,398
Speaker 3: be you're going to read his numbers or his potential ors,

797
00:38:20,878 --> 00:38:24,838
Speaker 3: whatever they have to say, matrix why matrix wise, I

798
00:38:24,838 --> 00:38:28,198
Speaker 3: would match him up against those pictures righty or lefty.

799
00:38:28,238 --> 00:38:31,438
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes Longo actually was better against righting's than lefties.

800
00:38:31,478 --> 00:38:32,958
Speaker 3: And the other thing Longo was really good. I was

801
00:38:32,998 --> 00:38:36,518
Speaker 3: elevated fastball velocity more than down down in a way

802
00:38:36,558 --> 00:38:38,918
Speaker 3: that was kind of his kryptonite. So these are the

803
00:38:38,998 --> 00:38:40,598
Speaker 3: kind of things you look for. Who do you match

804
00:38:40,638 --> 00:38:44,438
Speaker 3: him up with? And you do that Defensively, he was

805
00:38:44,478 --> 00:38:46,998
Speaker 3: as good as anybody asked to call him Montana because

806
00:38:46,998 --> 00:38:49,078
Speaker 3: he could pick up a groundball and throw it on

807
00:38:49,078 --> 00:38:50,918
Speaker 3: the run accurately as well as anybody. It's something you

808
00:38:50,918 --> 00:38:53,038
Speaker 3: would never teach, but he did it so well. I

809
00:38:53,078 --> 00:38:55,798
Speaker 3: never said anything to him, something Bob Clear taught me

810
00:38:55,838 --> 00:38:58,078
Speaker 3: one hundred years ago. But he's good at it. There's

811
00:38:58,118 --> 00:39:00,158
Speaker 3: a lot of young g infielders today that are much

812
00:39:00,198 --> 00:39:03,238
Speaker 3: better throwing on the run that the previous generation was

813
00:39:03,238 --> 00:39:05,318
Speaker 3: able to do. Can do that. He's very good at

814
00:39:05,358 --> 00:39:08,878
Speaker 3: the bunt, and he's a clutch hitter. He's a professional.

815
00:39:10,038 --> 00:39:12,878
Speaker 3: You know, I'm building a case. But yes, Matt's Cubs.

816
00:39:12,878 --> 00:39:14,318
Speaker 3: I don't know who's going to play third base for

817
00:39:14,438 --> 00:39:17,278
Speaker 3: the Cubs with that ballpark could be very conducive. And

818
00:39:17,318 --> 00:39:19,998
Speaker 3: the other thing the energy, the excitement, Like I don't

819
00:39:20,038 --> 00:39:22,238
Speaker 3: think that the Diamondback Stadium, even though they did what

820
00:39:22,278 --> 00:39:23,638
Speaker 3: they did last year, is going to be a buzz

821
00:39:23,678 --> 00:39:25,758
Speaker 3: on a nightly basis. I think if you under that

822
00:39:25,918 --> 00:39:27,278
Speaker 3: period of your career, you want to be on a

823
00:39:27,278 --> 00:39:29,278
Speaker 3: good team. A team has a chance to do something,

824
00:39:29,438 --> 00:39:33,358
Speaker 3: and an environment that's going to make you come to

825
00:39:33,398 --> 00:39:36,318
Speaker 3: play on that particular day is going to create that vibe,

826
00:39:36,358 --> 00:39:41,078
Speaker 3: that energy that's necessary. That's the same thing. So I yeah,

827
00:39:41,198 --> 00:39:43,478
Speaker 3: I don't know what he feels like regarding big cities

828
00:39:43,478 --> 00:39:46,038
Speaker 3: and living there. I guess the biggest has been San Francisco.

829
00:39:46,318 --> 00:39:48,198
Speaker 3: But I take a shot at him. If I talk

830
00:39:48,278 --> 00:39:50,518
Speaker 3: to him and he tells me he's inspired and he

831
00:39:50,558 --> 00:39:52,918
Speaker 3: wants to do this, and he's in good shape, and

832
00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:55,158
Speaker 3: you know, you go through all the you look at

833
00:39:55,238 --> 00:39:57,558
Speaker 3: him and the medicals and all that stuff. If he

834
00:39:57,598 --> 00:39:59,238
Speaker 3: wants to play, I take.

835
00:39:59,158 --> 00:40:00,998
Speaker 1: Him and Joe, the other guy I wanted to ask

836
00:40:01,038 --> 00:40:03,798
Speaker 1: you about, and he's been on our show, is Sean.

837
00:40:04,838 --> 00:40:06,438
Speaker 2: He pitched for you. Where was it Midland?

838
00:40:06,478 --> 00:40:06,598
Speaker 3: Right?

839
00:40:06,718 --> 00:40:09,758
Speaker 1: He pitched for you at Midland in the Angels minor

840
00:40:09,798 --> 00:40:12,318
Speaker 1: league system. If you're watching the Super Bowl, you will

841
00:40:12,358 --> 00:40:16,798
Speaker 1: probably likely see shots of Sean Perty, brock Purty's dad

842
00:40:16,798 --> 00:40:21,118
Speaker 1: in the stands, and you can tell he's like a

843
00:40:21,118 --> 00:40:21,878
Speaker 1: little league parent.

844
00:40:21,958 --> 00:40:22,238
Speaker 3: Still.

845
00:40:22,318 --> 00:40:24,238
Speaker 2: He gets nervous, he gets excited.

846
00:40:24,478 --> 00:40:26,438
Speaker 1: He'll react to things that happen on the field with

847
00:40:26,438 --> 00:40:29,918
Speaker 1: his son in big moments, so be prepared to see him.

848
00:40:30,158 --> 00:40:30,878
Speaker 2: But tell us a.

849
00:40:30,798 --> 00:40:33,638
Speaker 1: Little bit about Sean Perty, friend of the show. I

850
00:40:33,678 --> 00:40:35,918
Speaker 1: looked at his minor league career, Joe, this guy pitched

851
00:40:36,038 --> 00:40:39,358
Speaker 1: eight years in the minor leagues and went fifty eight

852
00:40:39,358 --> 00:40:41,838
Speaker 1: and thirty seven with a three point nine to one

853
00:40:41,998 --> 00:40:44,918
Speaker 1: ERA and a strikeout to walk rate greater than two

854
00:40:44,998 --> 00:40:47,198
Speaker 1: per You know, you get you have those numbers. In

855
00:40:47,198 --> 00:40:49,718
Speaker 1: today's game, the way teams turn through pitchers, you're getting

856
00:40:49,718 --> 00:40:52,198
Speaker 1: a shot to pitch into big leagues. He was backed

857
00:40:52,278 --> 00:40:55,278
Speaker 1: up there, you know he went. I guess probably became

858
00:40:55,358 --> 00:40:59,198
Speaker 1: a better relief pitcher later on. But listen, eight years

859
00:40:59,198 --> 00:41:01,038
Speaker 1: at this game in the minor leagues without getting the

860
00:41:01,078 --> 00:41:02,838
Speaker 1: show and putting up some numbers. There had to be

861
00:41:02,878 --> 00:41:03,878
Speaker 1: some perseverance there.

862
00:41:04,358 --> 00:41:07,078
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the velocity wasn't a heavy velocity guy.

863
00:41:07,198 --> 00:41:10,758
Speaker 3: He had more deception, but definitely a good breaking ball

864
00:41:10,998 --> 00:41:13,078
Speaker 3: and I don't remember it was a splitter, a change up,

865
00:41:13,118 --> 00:41:16,198
Speaker 3: but he had deception. And again, if you watch his

866
00:41:16,278 --> 00:41:20,918
Speaker 3: son play, you're watching Sean pitch. It's a very competitive method,

867
00:41:21,078 --> 00:41:23,158
Speaker 3: you know, not a great body from a distance. Again,

868
00:41:23,198 --> 00:41:24,758
Speaker 3: like he'd wind up and throw the ball. There was

869
00:41:24,958 --> 00:41:28,478
Speaker 3: there was not this tremendous fluidity about it, but dang,

870
00:41:28,478 --> 00:41:31,878
Speaker 3: it was effective. And when he when as a manager,

871
00:41:31,958 --> 00:41:34,278
Speaker 3: when he's on the mound for you, you expect good things

872
00:41:34,318 --> 00:41:36,638
Speaker 3: to happen for your team. He's one of those guys.

873
00:41:36,638 --> 00:41:39,398
Speaker 3: What do you expect when Rock Purty gets under the center,

874
00:41:39,878 --> 00:41:41,958
Speaker 3: Some good things are going to happen for your team.

875
00:41:42,278 --> 00:41:44,878
Speaker 3: It is it's the apple. Definitely did not fall far

876
00:41:44,998 --> 00:41:47,678
Speaker 3: from the tree or the ball to hutball, far from

877
00:41:47,678 --> 00:41:50,718
Speaker 3: whatever the mound or the line of scrimmage. He's just

878
00:41:51,278 --> 00:41:53,398
Speaker 3: he's just like that. I mean, that's what he's like.

879
00:41:53,438 --> 00:41:55,838
Speaker 3: You watch his kid, That's what he was like. He played,

880
00:41:55,838 --> 00:41:58,758
Speaker 3: he competed, he wanted to win. He was tough minded,

881
00:41:59,158 --> 00:42:01,758
Speaker 3: he worked hard. You just like being around him. He

882
00:42:01,838 --> 00:42:04,238
Speaker 3: was all those different things. So I watch when the

883
00:42:04,278 --> 00:42:06,998
Speaker 3: camera shoots him in the stands right now, Gosh, it's

884
00:42:06,998 --> 00:42:09,398
Speaker 3: the same cat. He looks the same. It's kind of like,

885
00:42:09,438 --> 00:42:11,278
Speaker 3: you know, he's kind of got these the blocky figure.

886
00:42:11,278 --> 00:42:14,398
Speaker 3: He's not this body beautiful guy. And if you get

887
00:42:14,398 --> 00:42:16,038
Speaker 3: the chance to speak with them, which we did, you

888
00:42:16,078 --> 00:42:19,518
Speaker 3: could see how sincere straight. He's a present, tenseky man,

889
00:42:19,758 --> 00:42:22,918
Speaker 3: nothing flowery about that. He's not trying to dissemble. He's

890
00:42:22,958 --> 00:42:25,238
Speaker 3: telling you exactly what he's thinking. Is a very Christian man.

891
00:42:26,118 --> 00:42:29,558
Speaker 3: That's who Sean Purdy is. So when I watch his

892
00:42:29,678 --> 00:42:33,638
Speaker 3: kid play, and then when you ever hear Brocks speak that, Okay,

893
00:42:33,678 --> 00:42:35,358
Speaker 3: what's his dad like? That's what he's like.

894
00:42:36,078 --> 00:42:38,198
Speaker 1: I love what you said too, that you felt like

895
00:42:38,238 --> 00:42:40,118
Speaker 1: when he was on the mound, good things were going

896
00:42:40,118 --> 00:42:44,038
Speaker 1: to happen. You know, listen, it's hard to define, but

897
00:42:44,118 --> 00:42:46,118
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about. One of the

898
00:42:46,118 --> 00:42:47,878
Speaker 1: first things that jumped out at me looking at his

899
00:42:47,918 --> 00:42:51,158
Speaker 1: minor league record was his winning percentage fifty eight and

900
00:42:51,198 --> 00:42:54,998
Speaker 1: thirty seven. I mean, that's amazing over an eight year

901
00:42:55,118 --> 00:42:57,958
Speaker 1: period in the minor leagues. Now, listen, of course, I

902
00:42:58,078 --> 00:43:01,078
Speaker 1: know that when one lost percentage is a product of

903
00:43:01,118 --> 00:43:03,238
Speaker 1: the team and a lot of factors that are out

904
00:43:03,238 --> 00:43:06,558
Speaker 1: of the control of the pitcher. There's plenty of guys

905
00:43:06,558 --> 00:43:08,758
Speaker 1: who pitched great and never got a w and it

906
00:43:08,798 --> 00:43:09,558
Speaker 1: happens all the time.

907
00:43:09,598 --> 00:43:12,398
Speaker 2: I get all that, but there is also you have.

908
00:43:12,318 --> 00:43:15,438
Speaker 1: To acknowledge something to people who just have a knack

909
00:43:16,078 --> 00:43:18,918
Speaker 1: of finding a way to win, or they've got this

910
00:43:18,998 --> 00:43:21,878
Speaker 1: way that teams will rally around them. And I'm seeing

911
00:43:21,918 --> 00:43:24,958
Speaker 1: the same thing with his son. Is Rock Purty as

912
00:43:24,958 --> 00:43:28,158
Speaker 1: good as Joe Burrow? No, but you know what, they're

913
00:43:28,198 --> 00:43:32,118
Speaker 1: winning percentages in the NFL are almost identical. So just

914
00:43:32,198 --> 00:43:34,278
Speaker 1: keep that in mind that you know, if it's the

915
00:43:34,318 --> 00:43:36,238
Speaker 1: fourth quarter and listen, it's tough.

916
00:43:36,038 --> 00:43:37,118
Speaker 2: To go against Mahomes.

917
00:43:37,198 --> 00:43:39,398
Speaker 1: I get that, but just don't roll his kid out

918
00:43:39,558 --> 00:43:42,238
Speaker 1: because I think he's done it long enough and like

919
00:43:42,318 --> 00:43:44,318
Speaker 1: his dad, just finds a way to be on the

920
00:43:44,398 --> 00:43:45,118
Speaker 1: winning side.

921
00:43:45,278 --> 00:43:47,238
Speaker 3: Agreed. I mean, look at the winning percentage for him,

922
00:43:47,278 --> 00:43:48,998
Speaker 3: look at the winning percentage of his dad. I mean,

923
00:43:49,038 --> 00:43:52,078
Speaker 3: it's the same cat. And again I talk about this,

924
00:43:52,158 --> 00:43:54,278
Speaker 3: I think we mentioned it, but give the Niners credit.

925
00:43:54,438 --> 00:43:56,518
Speaker 3: They drafted him for a reason. They saw some things

926
00:43:56,598 --> 00:44:01,038
Speaker 3: they saw some things, and it probably was primarily through

927
00:44:01,078 --> 00:44:04,838
Speaker 3: conversations talking to coaches. There was something about his make up,

928
00:44:04,878 --> 00:44:08,038
Speaker 3: the guy that they were sold on, and they say,

929
00:44:08,118 --> 00:44:09,958
Speaker 3: you know what, he's probably worth taking a shot at

930
00:44:09,958 --> 00:44:13,158
Speaker 3: this particular time. Look at his winning percentage from the past.

931
00:44:13,398 --> 00:44:15,998
Speaker 3: He'd be evaluate his arm. They probably had specific numbers

932
00:44:16,038 --> 00:44:19,718
Speaker 3: on his arm average, slightly below average, slightly above average, accuracy,

933
00:44:20,398 --> 00:44:22,278
Speaker 3: how quickly he can get rid of the ball. They

934
00:44:22,318 --> 00:44:24,278
Speaker 3: thought of his feet, and I know the other day

935
00:44:24,318 --> 00:44:27,398
Speaker 3: they were criticizing that he did not run often or

936
00:44:27,438 --> 00:44:29,518
Speaker 3: that he wasn't effective. Then all of a sudden, he

937
00:44:29,558 --> 00:44:32,478
Speaker 3: gets two first downs on some nice runs. Why because

938
00:44:32,478 --> 00:44:34,678
Speaker 3: he's Sean perty Son, That's why. Because that's how he

939
00:44:34,718 --> 00:44:37,678
Speaker 3: plays the game, and he sees things, and he's a winner,

940
00:44:38,198 --> 00:44:40,598
Speaker 3: and there's something to be said for that man. The body,

941
00:44:40,638 --> 00:44:43,718
Speaker 3: beautiful guys, I don't know how many times we often said,

942
00:44:43,798 --> 00:44:46,878
Speaker 3: well I wish so and so had so and so's body,

943
00:44:47,078 --> 00:44:49,798
Speaker 3: because you know, the big body, beautiful dude can't play,

944
00:44:50,278 --> 00:44:52,798
Speaker 3: or the guy with the less stand body keeps beating

945
00:44:52,798 --> 00:44:55,558
Speaker 3: everybody up. I wish he looked like, well you know what, no,

946
00:44:55,638 --> 00:44:59,598
Speaker 3: stop wishing take this Marcel Lashman taught me that with

947
00:44:59,678 --> 00:45:03,158
Speaker 3: pitchers too, latch best pitching coach ever. Everybody was always

948
00:45:03,198 --> 00:45:06,038
Speaker 3: hung up on Vlow sitting and Buddy beautiful. But Marceill

949
00:45:06,038 --> 00:45:08,718
Speaker 3: would always make sure that I looked at and you

950
00:45:08,758 --> 00:45:11,078
Speaker 3: said it, what was his numbers? Like? What was this

951
00:45:11,278 --> 00:45:14,158
Speaker 3: record like? And listen, I'm gonna argue that point because

952
00:45:14,478 --> 00:45:17,878
Speaker 3: guys have good win loss records because guys care about

953
00:45:17,878 --> 00:45:20,358
Speaker 3: that and they compete and they are they have a

954
00:45:20,398 --> 00:45:23,078
Speaker 3: tendency to win. That's Buddy black about that. A's getting

955
00:45:23,158 --> 00:45:26,998
Speaker 3: really former good major league starting pitcher with the one

956
00:45:27,038 --> 00:45:29,398
Speaker 3: loss record meant to them. It means everything to them.

957
00:45:29,638 --> 00:45:32,318
Speaker 3: We're trying to teach them that it's not as important anymore.

958
00:45:32,798 --> 00:45:34,598
Speaker 3: But if you teach them that it is, if they

959
00:45:34,678 --> 00:45:36,718
Speaker 3: really believe it, you're gonna see more guys in the

960
00:45:36,758 --> 00:45:39,238
Speaker 3: sixth and seventh any man saying I'm okay to go

961
00:45:39,358 --> 00:45:42,398
Speaker 3: back out because I want the W because it does matter.

962
00:45:42,558 --> 00:45:45,638
Speaker 3: This is this is a learned process that it doesn't matter.

963
00:45:45,998 --> 00:45:48,918
Speaker 3: It's not true. That's that's an analytical trope that I

964
00:45:48,998 --> 00:45:50,158
Speaker 3: really not I'm not into.

965
00:45:50,638 --> 00:45:54,118
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you mentioned that, I started thinking about Johnny Lester. Yeah,

966
00:45:54,278 --> 00:45:56,198
Speaker 1: look at his one loss record. It was important to

967
00:45:56,198 --> 00:45:58,038
Speaker 1: them to stay in that game, give us team a

968
00:45:58,118 --> 00:46:00,638
Speaker 1: chance to win and be out there longer, which is

969
00:46:00,638 --> 00:46:03,678
Speaker 1: how you get w's. So in the game, Joe, I was,

970
00:46:04,078 --> 00:46:06,478
Speaker 1: I really would like to see brock Purty win the game.

971
00:46:06,518 --> 00:46:09,318
Speaker 1: But I think you're looking at Patrick Mahomes right now

972
00:46:09,558 --> 00:46:12,278
Speaker 1: is completely at the top of his game, and I

973
00:46:12,438 --> 00:46:14,998
Speaker 1: just know the forty nine ers better not let him

974
00:46:15,158 --> 00:46:17,998
Speaker 1: have the ball last in the game because you're not

975
00:46:18,038 --> 00:46:18,638
Speaker 1: going to beat him.

976
00:46:18,678 --> 00:46:20,398
Speaker 2: He's going to find a way to win the game.

977
00:46:20,278 --> 00:46:23,798
Speaker 1: Because he's got that it factor and he's just got

978
00:46:24,358 --> 00:46:29,038
Speaker 1: incredible skills and incredible decision making. So it'd be hard

979
00:46:29,078 --> 00:46:32,798
Speaker 1: to go against a guy who's I believe Patrick Mahomes

980
00:46:32,918 --> 00:46:35,238
Speaker 1: right now is playing his best football of his career,

981
00:46:35,278 --> 00:46:37,918
Speaker 1: which is saying something. But again, I think it would

982
00:46:37,918 --> 00:46:39,758
Speaker 1: be a great story if Brock Purty wins the game.

983
00:46:39,798 --> 00:46:40,918
Speaker 2: What's your thought in the game.

984
00:46:41,158 --> 00:46:44,438
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they both have wonderful skill players. I mean,

985
00:46:44,478 --> 00:46:46,558
Speaker 3: if you start talking about McCaffrey and the check o

986
00:46:47,118 --> 00:46:50,518
Speaker 3: and you talk about their tight ends with Kittle and Kelsey,

987
00:46:50,598 --> 00:46:55,638
Speaker 3: and they talk about Samuel and who's the wide receiver

988
00:46:56,278 --> 00:47:00,078
Speaker 3: for the Chiefs. Thing there, they're really balanced out. Again,

989
00:47:00,118 --> 00:47:03,158
Speaker 3: one thing, I look at his line play, and I'm

990
00:47:03,158 --> 00:47:05,198
Speaker 3: a big line play. That's why I thought the Eagles wild.

991
00:47:05,198 --> 00:47:07,478
Speaker 3: Really surprised me that the Eagles failed a bit because

992
00:47:07,518 --> 00:47:09,918
Speaker 3: I love their line play both sides of the ball.

993
00:47:10,158 --> 00:47:13,118
Speaker 3: So that's something that's really rarely evaluated. And I still

994
00:47:13,158 --> 00:47:15,838
Speaker 3: think that again, if I'm running a football team, yeah,

995
00:47:15,878 --> 00:47:18,718
Speaker 3: you need a quarterback. You cannot win without a quarterback,

996
00:47:18,758 --> 00:47:22,358
Speaker 3: period exclamation point not possible. But number two would be

997
00:47:22,598 --> 00:47:26,398
Speaker 3: offensive and defensive line play. I would really want some

998
00:47:26,478 --> 00:47:29,318
Speaker 3: really stellar groups in that in the trenches. That that

999
00:47:29,438 --> 00:47:31,718
Speaker 3: really is why football is football, and white teams could

1000
00:47:31,718 --> 00:47:34,918
Speaker 3: be successful on an annual basis at the end of

1001
00:47:34,958 --> 00:47:38,238
Speaker 3: the day, I like what you said. Mahomes is a

1002
00:47:38,278 --> 00:47:42,278
Speaker 3: different animal, but also I do like the overall of

1003
00:47:42,398 --> 00:47:45,278
Speaker 3: the forty nine ers. I do like the McCaffrey. To me,

1004
00:47:46,078 --> 00:47:48,758
Speaker 3: it is just a different but Chaco's like again, these

1005
00:47:48,798 --> 00:47:51,118
Speaker 3: are like two wonderful running backs. But I like McCaffrey

1006
00:47:51,278 --> 00:47:53,678
Speaker 3: a lot. So I'm going to say a very close game.

1007
00:47:53,718 --> 00:47:55,478
Speaker 3: I got the Niners coming out on top, and I

1008
00:47:55,518 --> 00:47:58,718
Speaker 3: got Brock Purty walking off the field looking first pop.

1009
00:47:59,278 --> 00:48:02,678
Speaker 1: That will be cool and I know you mentioned earlier, Joe,

1010
00:48:02,678 --> 00:48:04,958
Speaker 1: You're gonna take us out with something about decision making,

1011
00:48:04,958 --> 00:48:07,518
Speaker 1: which I love because with these two coaches here and

1012
00:48:07,558 --> 00:48:10,638
Speaker 1: these teams, I think, as you just said, very evenly matched,

1013
00:48:11,118 --> 00:48:13,318
Speaker 1: you're going to have key decisions in this game, no

1014
00:48:13,358 --> 00:48:16,158
Speaker 1: matter what, whether it's for the better for the worse.

1015
00:48:16,478 --> 00:48:18,918
Speaker 1: And you know it'll be a little bit of a

1016
00:48:19,038 --> 00:48:21,318
Speaker 1: chess match as well. Besides the players on the field,

1017
00:48:21,318 --> 00:48:23,078
Speaker 1: the coaches will have a lot to do, as they

1018
00:48:23,118 --> 00:48:25,438
Speaker 1: always do on who wins the Super Bowl.

1019
00:48:25,518 --> 00:48:29,398
Speaker 2: So with that setup, Joe, you had something planned. You weren't.

1020
00:48:29,438 --> 00:48:32,238
Speaker 1: You didn't know I was getting to no decision making.

1021
00:48:32,278 --> 00:48:35,638
Speaker 3: But here we are, dude, I swear to god, I

1022
00:48:35,718 --> 00:48:39,158
Speaker 3: was debating different things this morning. I'm sitting here and

1023
00:48:39,398 --> 00:48:42,198
Speaker 3: I just said, you know, decision making, and it's I

1024
00:48:42,238 --> 00:48:44,998
Speaker 3: was also thinking about, you know, the building a baseball team,

1025
00:48:45,038 --> 00:48:48,598
Speaker 3: and you brought it up with Corbyn Burns and the Orioles,

1026
00:48:48,598 --> 00:48:51,158
Speaker 3: et cetera. But this was like on the money, and

1027
00:48:51,158 --> 00:48:55,118
Speaker 3: this comes from somebody that many many years ago. But

1028
00:48:55,238 --> 00:49:00,118
Speaker 3: he wrote, A good decision is based on knowledge and

1029
00:49:00,198 --> 00:49:05,478
Speaker 3: not on numbers Plato, A goodness decision is based on

1030
00:49:05,598 --> 00:49:10,158
Speaker 3: knowledge and not on numbers. And again that's the point man.

1031
00:49:10,198 --> 00:49:16,358
Speaker 3: Everybody looks at analytics and numbers as being knowledgeable they do,

1032
00:49:16,838 --> 00:49:20,318
Speaker 3: or as if they if that's the source of their information.

1033
00:49:20,958 --> 00:49:23,158
Speaker 3: That you actually know something you don't. You don't. You

1034
00:49:23,158 --> 00:49:25,958
Speaker 3: don't know it until you feel a taste it, live it.

1035
00:49:25,998 --> 00:49:28,998
Speaker 3: You don't know it. You don't know it. And there

1036
00:49:29,198 --> 00:49:32,158
Speaker 3: lies the difference. And that's what Shanahan was talking about,

1037
00:49:32,198 --> 00:49:35,158
Speaker 3: and that's what Andy reads all about. A good decision

1038
00:49:35,198 --> 00:49:38,158
Speaker 3: is based on knowledge and not on numbers or math.

1039
00:49:38,718 --> 00:49:43,078
Speaker 3: You could augment good decision making with math or numbers,

1040
00:49:43,118 --> 00:49:45,438
Speaker 3: absolutely you can, you want that, But at the end

1041
00:49:45,478 --> 00:49:50,718
Speaker 3: of the day, experience, feel all that stuff matters. Experience

1042
00:49:51,238 --> 00:49:56,878
Speaker 3: in regards to making consistently good decisions, I believe. I

1043
00:49:57,078 --> 00:50:02,198
Speaker 3: just want to believe also that as a as a

1044
00:50:02,278 --> 00:50:05,798
Speaker 3: human race, we're going to continue to rely on those

1045
00:50:05,838 --> 00:50:10,278
Speaker 3: methods because the moment decision making lacks of motion and

1046
00:50:10,718 --> 00:50:13,998
Speaker 3: real feel about it. Yeah, things have a really good

1047
00:50:14,078 --> 00:50:15,518
Speaker 3: chance of going sideways fast.

1048
00:50:15,678 --> 00:50:17,798
Speaker 2: I'm well said, why not have both?

1049
00:50:17,918 --> 00:50:20,238
Speaker 3: That's right. Absolutely, enjoy the game, Joe.

1050
00:50:20,478 --> 00:50:21,358
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.

1051
00:50:21,678 --> 00:50:22,518
Speaker 3: Okay, by to you too.

1052
00:50:31,398 --> 00:50:34,598
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1053
00:50:34,838 --> 00:50:39,798
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1054
00:50:39,918 --> 00:50:41,718
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.