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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: I'm at another river, this one flowing through a southwestern

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Speaker 2: Ontario town on a clear but darkening springtime evening. I

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Speaker 2: recorded these nature sounds well over a decade ago for

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Speaker 2: a TV documentary using the same microphone I now use

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Speaker 2: for the podcast. This thing always seems to be standing

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Speaker 2: between me and the unknown, somehow oddly comforting, just.

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Speaker 1: Crouching at the riverside. Here a park and Hanover, Ontario.

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Speaker 1: This is the Sage River, which the mouth of the

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Speaker 1: Sagi actually empties.

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Speaker 3: Out into the Lake Huron.

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Speaker 1: It's about sixty kilometers downstream, I think, flowing clear, but

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Speaker 1: there's lots of debris kind of pushed against the shoreline.

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Speaker 1: There's obviously a pretty high floodplain here. There's an old gazebo,

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Speaker 1: a swing set, there's an old gate.

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Speaker 2: I remember focusing on the sounds these things made. Here,

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Speaker 2: chains on a swing, muddy logs at the high watermark,

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Speaker 2: brushy grasses along the path, and that metal gate. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if these objects or the sounds they made, ever

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Speaker 2: held any actual comfort for anyone.

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Speaker 1: At one time, this park was Christine Harron's favorite place

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Speaker 1: in the whole world. I have been told if i'd

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Speaker 1: been here. Before May eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, I might

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Speaker 1: have seen her down here catching frogs or fishing. Nobody

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Speaker 1: here today, this path next to the river.

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Speaker 2: The sounds I recorded here don't reveal any secrets, but

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Speaker 2: I feel pulled back to places like this again and again,

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Speaker 2: pulled back into long term investigations, their grief and the hope.

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Speaker 2: Even after some questions have been answered, there's always more

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Speaker 2: and more difficult ones. Over thirty years ago, just one

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Speaker 2: week after her fifteenth birthday, Christine Herron disappeared, and her

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Speaker 2: full story has yet to be told. I'm David Ridgin,

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Speaker 2: and this is someone Knows Something, Season nine, The Christine

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Speaker 2: Heron Case, Episode one, Chrissy. I first learned about Christine

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Speaker 2: in the late two thousands as I was scanning through

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Speaker 2: some of the many unsolved cases out of Ontario. I

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Speaker 2: was preparing to make a documentary series for CBC Television's

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Speaker 2: news program The National. I sorted Chrissy's case into a

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Speaker 2: much smaller pile, a short list of sorts, cases that

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Speaker 2: for some reason spoke to me.

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Speaker 4: We gathered here this morning for a celebration of life

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Speaker 4: in the life a Christine.

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Speaker 2: Or I'd learned that a memorial service was being held

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Speaker 2: at a church seventeen years after Christine disappeared. So I

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Speaker 2: traveled west to Hanover in the springtime of twenty ten.

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Speaker 3: Let us bring loving to go out.

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Speaker 4: Look with mercy on those who mourned for Christine, who

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Speaker 4: has died by the violence of our fallen world. Be

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Speaker 4: with us as we struggled with the mysteries of life

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Speaker 4: and death.

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Speaker 2: Framed photos of Christine in curly dark hair and glasses

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Speaker 2: sit on a small table at the front of the church,

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Speaker 2: next to the minister. There are others sad people whom

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Speaker 2: I assume are her family standing close by, including the

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Speaker 2: woman that I know is her mother, Mary Anne.

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Speaker 3: Described by her mom as a bit of a loader.

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Speaker 3: Christie didn't have a lot of close friends.

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Speaker 5: In our culture.

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Speaker 3: Her loader mentality meant that she was viewed as being different.

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Speaker 4: She wasn't someone who has hung up on appearances or

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Speaker 4: who is doing what with whom She had other things

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Speaker 4: to do, other things.

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Speaker 2: This minister's words, his impressions of Christine filled me with

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Speaker 2: a chill of sadness. Tears suddenly rolled down my face

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Speaker 2: for this young person I'd never met, and right there

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Speaker 2: I decide that I'm going to do this case.

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Speaker 6: This is the last slaves Christie had lived.

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Speaker 2: I would take several more months of information gathering before

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Speaker 2: I contacted Chrissy's mother, Mary Anne.

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Speaker 7: That front window was the living room, and that's where

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Speaker 7: her and I had spent the morning together watching television,

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Speaker 7: with her laying her head on my lap.

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Speaker 2: I've got mary Anne framed up in my documentary camera

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Speaker 2: on a cool, windy day, pale skinned in glasses, with

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Speaker 2: meticulous makeup and shorter hair. Mary Anne stands in front

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Speaker 2: of the small brick two story she'd been renting back

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Speaker 2: in the spring of nineteen ninety three at the time

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Speaker 2: Christy disappeared. Mary Anne gestures to where she says Chrissy

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Speaker 2: walked away from home that.

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Speaker 7: Day and then she left to go to school. She

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Speaker 7: walked down the other side of the street and around

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Speaker 7: the corner, and that was the last I've seen of her.

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Speaker 2: Mary Anne says she watched from an upstairs window as

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Speaker 2: Chrissy turned the corner on the way. Mary Anne thought

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Speaker 2: to Grade nine classes at John Diefenbaker High School, not

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Speaker 2: that far away. It was sometime between one thirty and

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Speaker 2: two pm. Chrissy had not felt well that morning, so

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Speaker 2: stayed home. She'd been known to skip classes and didn't

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Speaker 2: want to go to school that afternoon either. She and

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Speaker 2: her mom had argued about it, and mary Anne suggested

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Speaker 2: that perhaps Chrissy should get a job instead. Chrissy walked out,

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Speaker 2: saying see you later and slammed the door. She was

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Speaker 2: wearing blue jeans, a jean jacket, black running shoes, plastic

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Speaker 2: glasses with a broken nose piece on one side, and

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Speaker 2: possibly a silver bracelet.

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Speaker 6: She was in a good mood that morning, but she

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Speaker 6: was mad that she had to go to school. She

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Speaker 6: even we were in the process of packing and moving

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Speaker 6: to another place, and she says, well, even let me

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Speaker 6: stay home and I'll pack all day. Times did it

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Speaker 6: go on that day? But I said, you can't truant

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Speaker 6: officers waiting.

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Speaker 2: There were other tensions in the household at the time

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Speaker 2: as well. Chrissy had been deeply troubled by her parents'

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Speaker 2: divorce years earlier. Her father, Lorne, lived in Western Canada

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Speaker 2: at the time of Chrissy's disappearance and has since passed away.

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Speaker 2: Chrissy got along with her younger brother named Sean, but

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Speaker 2: did not always see eye to eye with her stepfather,

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Speaker 2: who was also named Sean. Sean Russworm, who was then

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Speaker 2: aged twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Well, she didn't like keeping a room clean. She's kind

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Speaker 3: of a tomboy.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Russworm is a large man in a T shirt sporting

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Speaker 2: a mustache and smudgy blue line tattoos on each shoulder.

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Speaker 2: Back at their current home, he and Marianne are settled

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Speaker 2: into a couch. Two chihuahuas named Chloe and Angel sit

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Speaker 2: on their laps.

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Speaker 3: Wow, as well as they behaved, than maybe they can stay.

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Speaker 5: You.

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Speaker 6: The best thing to do is to hand her to

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Speaker 6: you and let you hold her. Stare Angel?

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Speaker 2: See Mary Anne hands me Angel the extra small one

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Speaker 2: so she can get used to me and stop barking.

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Speaker 2: I walk around the room a bit with the dog

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Speaker 2: in hand, looking at some photos of Chrissy spread out

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Speaker 2: on a coffee table with a yellow lunch pail on

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Speaker 2: her first day of kindergarten, blowing out birthday candles in

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Speaker 2: red ribboned pigtails and Christmas tree moments.

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Speaker 8: I was gonna try something with that light.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the dogs seem calm and we start talking about Chrissy.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to take stuff apart.

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Speaker 6: And put her back together to see what made it work.

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Speaker 6: She loved kids, love going for walks, into cricks, catching frogs.

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Speaker 9: And.

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Speaker 2: I see Chrissy seeming to watch me through her big

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Speaker 2: glasses in the photos.

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Speaker 3: I love those.

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Speaker 6: Glasses, but she hated them.

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Speaker 3: There was times where other people would pick on her

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Speaker 3: younger brother, Sean, and then Chrissy be right there sticking

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Speaker 3: up for her brother. Chrissy was right there and punched

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Speaker 3: out a couple of boys that were picking on Sean.

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Speaker 3: This was in public school already, so she could hold

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Speaker 3: her home and she was feisty and when she needed

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 2: Sean admits that his relationship with Chrissy was sometimes strained,

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Speaker 2: and he says that he's bipolar and sometimes can be aggressive.

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Speaker 2: But he says that one of his last memories of

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Speaker 2: Chrissy is her helping him replace the spark plugs in

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Speaker 2: his car.

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Speaker 3: When we started to get closer, she'd come out to

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Speaker 3: the garage and asked me if she could use my tools. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're right there if I go to help. No, No,

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Speaker 3: she wanted to do it herself.

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Speaker 6: But she wasn't one to go out to parties or

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Speaker 6: anything like that. Like she'd come home a couple of

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Speaker 6: times and said, well, they're drinking.

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Speaker 7: So I left.

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Speaker 3: She was against.

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Speaker 6: Smoking, she was against drinking.

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Speaker 3: I told her we were really proud of her for that.

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Speaker 6: She was close to her grandma, my mom, very close. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: they spent a lot of time together.

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Speaker 10: We always had a good relationship for any reason. If

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Speaker 10: she just wanted to talk, she'd call me. She used

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Speaker 10: to spend a lot of time out there with.

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Speaker 2: Me, Grandma Phillis socks at her home.

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Speaker 10: And then when ninety three we moved to Gwelf. That's

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Speaker 10: what upset me so bad, because I felt she if

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Speaker 10: she's out there, she's going to try and reach me,

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Speaker 10: because she always did if she wanted something other. And

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Speaker 10: I thought, I move away, she won't have my phone number,

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Speaker 10: and that's upset me. And once I moved away, I

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Speaker 10: couldn't even look at her pictures anymore for a long time.

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Speaker 10: It really upset me bad.

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Speaker 3: It says Grandma, It says Gramall wild as all.

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Speaker 5: Wild they saweya Oh God, says Grandma.

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Speaker 2: Christine sits around a Christmas tree with her family in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety I watched the grainy archival video as she

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Speaker 2: quietly makes sure that everyone has a gift to open

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Speaker 2: before she does. Then the footage shifts to a Santa

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Speaker 2: theme park and Christine's pretending to be a reindeer in

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Speaker 2: front of a big red sleigh, a mischievous strength to

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Speaker 2: her every move, just three years before she walks off

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Speaker 2: into oblivion.

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Speaker 10: Whoh, I got sewing machine. I'm bringing her out and

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Speaker 10: letting her use it. She made an apron the one

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Speaker 10: time she was out and we'd baked and we'd just

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Speaker 10: play games. We always used to go do worm hunting

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Speaker 10: and picking with her too, and she'd go fishing. I

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Speaker 10: just couldn't believe it when she disappeared and she didn't

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Speaker 10: call me. It's something you can't never forget. I don't know,

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Speaker 10: no matter what, you can't forget about it.

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Speaker 2: Mary Anne reported Christy missing to Hanover Police at nine

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Speaker 2: to twenty one pm on the day she disappeared, May eighteenth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three. Christy was known to have a poor

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Speaker 2: sense of direction and would get lost easily, But despite

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Speaker 2: this and her habit of skipping classes or sleeping over

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Speaker 2: at friends' houses, mary Anne and others say that Chrissy

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Speaker 2: would always call home and never go far.

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Speaker 6: When she didn't show home, I started phoning her friends

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Speaker 6: and my family, just to see if maybe she went

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Speaker 6: to one of her friend's house after school or something.

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Speaker 2: The story of Christine's case, at least in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: is a familiar one. A teenager leaves home, supposed to

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Speaker 2: be somewhere school, but never makes it. Local police investigatively inexperienced,

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Speaker 2: finding nothing and flying in the face of what a

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Speaker 2: mother knows.

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Speaker 6: And nobody had seen her or heard from her. So

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Speaker 6: then the family and I we started going out and

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Speaker 6: looking for her, looking in parks in the area, just

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Speaker 6: to see, you know, if she was someplace else and

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Speaker 6: just hadn't come home yet. We had formed the police

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Speaker 6: and they said it was too soon yet to do anything.

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Speaker 6: What we actually got from the Hanover police chief himself

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Speaker 6: was that his daughter runs away a lot, takes off

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Speaker 6: for days. So mine probably did the same thing. So

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Speaker 6: she never showed home, and I sat up all night

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Speaker 6: and waited for were reading. I even had the feeling

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Speaker 6: too all along that she was down there by the

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Speaker 6: park somewhere. I kept trying to get them to search more,

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Speaker 6: and the church and I we even got together and

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Speaker 6: formed our own search and we wanted to search down there,

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Speaker 6: and they wouldn't let us. They made us go in

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Speaker 6: the opposite direction, and the.

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Speaker 3: Top police was very upset when we yes, when we

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Speaker 3: set that up. They were not impressed that you set

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Speaker 3: up a search.

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Speaker 6: Yes, yes, they didn't want the public to panic.

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Speaker 3: We were told that we went anywhere near the park

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Speaker 3: that weekend, the very first weekend she disappeared, there would

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Speaker 3: be consequences and repercussions.

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Speaker 6: Who told you that the police.

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Speaker 2: There had been an antique car show on at the

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Speaker 2: park that coming Victoria Day weekend, and police were concerned

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Speaker 2: about disrupting it. According to Mary Anne, Hanover police and

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Speaker 2: fire department did eventually coordinate and conduct a single search

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Speaker 2: using volunteers on May twenty third, nineteen ninety three, five

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Speaker 2: days after she disappeared. The search encompassed the Hanover Park,

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Speaker 2: the south shore of the Saggin River going east, and

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Speaker 2: the town water tower. No trace of Christine was found.

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Speaker 6: I think everybody just wanted to believe she was a runaway.

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Speaker 6: Nobody would actually think of her as something had happened,

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Speaker 6: not in a small town, not to their town. So

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Speaker 6: everybody who just told us, no, she's a runaway, She'll

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Speaker 6: come back when she's ready, even when we were putting

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Speaker 6: up posters. People would take them down. They just didn't

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Speaker 6: want to believe it.

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Speaker 3: The town police took them.

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Speaker 6: Down, Yeah, but nobody would believe it. I actually got

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Speaker 6: phone calls from people, you know, stop making such a fuss,

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Speaker 6: she'll come back. Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Did you ever cast any suspicion or doubt suspicious of

255
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Speaker 8: people in town.

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Speaker 3: Or anything home of it?

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Speaker 2: Nope, Mary Anne and Sean didn't have any suspects, but

258
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Speaker 2: almost a year later they had to be ruled out

259
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Speaker 2: as suspects themselves.

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Speaker 6: Yes, we all were. At one point they asked us

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Speaker 6: to take polygraphs, and I agreed just to rule out

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Speaker 6: being a suspect so that they would get on with

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Speaker 6: the case and find the person that did it. Or

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Speaker 6: I did it willingly knowing that it would clear me

265
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Speaker 6: and would help the case. I would would have done

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Speaker 6: anything at that time. And you went through two of them.

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Speaker 3: I went through too. The first one was fairly basic.

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Speaker 3: It didn't bother me too much. The second one was

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Speaker 3: at a very tense time in my life. My employer

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Speaker 3: at the time was on strike. In nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 3: I had the interview over at milfors Pp Eastation and

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Speaker 3: I believe it was October of nineteen ninety nine and

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Speaker 3: I was interviewed by one of their forensic people from Kingston,

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Speaker 3: supposed to one of their head people. It was very

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Speaker 3: very intense, suppost a four to five hour process, and

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Speaker 3: they accused me in many different ways of murdering Christine, strangling, rape,

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Speaker 3: shooting her, drowning her, and just everything they could to

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Speaker 3: push my buttons. What pushed my buttons the most during

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Speaker 3: this process, I know that they were videotaping and recording

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Speaker 3: the session. They mentioned that they had Paul Bernardo in

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Speaker 3: another room. They wanted to know what my thoughts were.

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Speaker 2: Paul Bernardo was a serial rapist and murderer in Ontario.

283
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Speaker 2: In the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties. He and his

284
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Speaker 2: partner Karla Homolka horribly murdered two young women. Bernardo had

285
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Speaker 2: been arrested and jailed months before Christy disappeared, So using

286
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Speaker 2: his name here was a tactic to get Sean talking, and.

287
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Speaker 3: With myself already being bipolar things that were going on

288
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Speaker 3: in my life at that time, I completely lost it.

289
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Speaker 3: I jumped out of my seat. I seemed to remember

290
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Speaker 3: throwing a couple of things around. I just said, let

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Speaker 3: me add the son of a bitch, because only one

292
00:18:33,965 --> 00:18:35,925
Speaker 3: of us is going to walk out of the room alive.

293
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Speaker 3: I completely lost control. They tried to calm me down.

294
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Speaker 3: I shut them off. All I had in my mind

295
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Speaker 3: was looking for Paul Bernardo and wanted at him, and

296
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Speaker 3: I wanted him dead. And that's the last I could remember.

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Speaker 2: Russworm had been at work until three pm in Durham, Ontario,

298
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Speaker 2: at the time Christy disappeared, about a fifteen minute drive

299
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Speaker 2: away from Hanover. After work, he drove to Marianne's, where

300
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Speaker 2: he heard that Christine had left for school shortly before

301
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Speaker 2: he arrived.

302
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Speaker 8: And what did they tell you about the results of

303
00:19:12,685 --> 00:19:14,445
Speaker 8: either of those polygraphs that you took.

304
00:19:14,405 --> 00:19:18,605
Speaker 3: On that I was clear, as far as they're coriscerned,

305
00:19:18,645 --> 00:19:21,005
Speaker 3: I had nothing to do with it. What they said

306
00:19:21,045 --> 00:19:24,125
Speaker 3: they had to do what they had to do to

307
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Speaker 3: prove that I was not guilty.

308
00:19:27,725 --> 00:19:31,725
Speaker 2: Sean and Marianne did pass their first polygraph tests, according

309
00:19:31,765 --> 00:19:34,965
Speaker 2: to documents, and neither was ever arrested or charged in

310
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Speaker 2: Christine's case.

311
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Speaker 3: Do I wish anyone to ever go through a process

312
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Speaker 3: like that? No, it's hell, it's not a very nice process.

313
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Speaker 3: What they did everything that they needed to do, and

314
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Speaker 3: I commend them for doing it. I just still wish

315
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Speaker 3: that we had something more could bring justice and bring

316
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Speaker 3: Christine home.

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Speaker 6: I did know before the night was over she was dead, though,

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Speaker 6: call it mother's intuition or whatever, I knew she was going.

319
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Speaker 2: There weren't many Christine heron news reports to look at.

320
00:20:22,485 --> 00:20:26,285
Speaker 2: Early on in my investigation items I could find. Talked

321
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Speaker 2: about the local Hanover police making no headway in Christine's case,

322
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Speaker 2: claiming even a year later that there was no evidence

323
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Speaker 2: of foul play. Even though Chrissy had left her house

324
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Speaker 2: without her id, any extra clothing, or the eighty dollars

325
00:20:40,965 --> 00:20:44,405
Speaker 2: in birthday money she had just received. Police continued to

326
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Speaker 2: suggest that she was a runaway, that there were sightings

327
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Speaker 2: of her. Christine was in Toronto with skinheads who had

328
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Speaker 2: been seen in Hanover, she'd dyed her hair blonde and

329
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Speaker 2: shaved the side of her head, or she'd left home

330
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Speaker 2: to go live with her father Lauren, out west, but

331
00:20:59,445 --> 00:21:03,445
Speaker 2: she never appeared there or Toronto, or was seen anywhere

332
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Speaker 2: else again. After May eighteenth, nineteen ninety.

333
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Speaker 11: Three, mary Anne and I spent a lot of time

334
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Speaker 11: the first six months to a year we went to Kitchener, London, Toronto.

335
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Speaker 3: Where else did we go here? I can't even remember.

336
00:21:23,045 --> 00:21:26,445
Speaker 2: Even if police weren't looking for Christine, Marianne and Sean

337
00:21:26,605 --> 00:21:28,045
Speaker 2: were trying their best.

338
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Speaker 3: Every chance we had, going to places that we probably

339
00:21:31,365 --> 00:21:34,885
Speaker 3: we checked, shelters we went into. I'm not sure if

340
00:21:34,925 --> 00:21:37,045
Speaker 3: it's a halfway house or a drug house or what

341
00:21:37,125 --> 00:21:37,485
Speaker 3: it was.

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00:21:40,325 --> 00:21:43,845
Speaker 2: The media would report on these supposed sightings of Christy

343
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Speaker 2: and help to generate more rumors and to make matters worse.

344
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Speaker 2: According to Mary Anne, the few articles that were written

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Speaker 2: were often filled with inaccuracy.

346
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Speaker 6: I found that whenever you tried to tell them something,

347
00:21:58,525 --> 00:22:02,605
Speaker 6: they twisted into something else. It was never what you

348
00:22:02,645 --> 00:22:07,285
Speaker 6: were trying to explain. They always just took bits and

349
00:22:07,325 --> 00:22:09,805
Speaker 6: pieces and made their own sentences.

350
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Speaker 12: It wasn't always the truth that we had said. So

351
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Speaker 12: it became frustrating and upsetting, to the point where we

352
00:22:21,005 --> 00:22:25,085
Speaker 12: just had to refuse to speak from We were so

353
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Speaker 12: scared of jeopardizing Christine's case that.

354
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Speaker 3: We shut out all reporters for quite a while until now.

355
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Speaker 6: I've kept most of the clippings the newspapers all these years,

356
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Speaker 6: got those and somewhere the posters, Yeah, typical girl.

357
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Speaker 8: Yes, So do you think there's a chance in this

358
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Speaker 8: case still or what's your want?

359
00:22:58,965 --> 00:23:04,125
Speaker 3: It solved justice and solved. I think you're still a chance.

360
00:23:05,685 --> 00:23:14,045
Speaker 3: I hope, I hope this will bring her home. We'll

361
00:23:14,045 --> 00:23:21,325
Speaker 3: do our best marking, sure you will, but Canver does

362
00:23:21,405 --> 00:23:27,685
Speaker 3: not feel like home anymore. She went missing us. It's

363
00:23:27,725 --> 00:23:28,245
Speaker 3: not our home.

364
00:23:37,005 --> 00:23:39,805
Speaker 9: We had the same home room in grade nine, so

365
00:23:39,925 --> 00:23:43,125
Speaker 9: the only desk was right beside her, So that's how

366
00:23:43,165 --> 00:23:47,885
Speaker 9: I met her and Finn there we pretty much were

367
00:23:48,565 --> 00:23:49,525
Speaker 9: like fat sons.

368
00:23:50,605 --> 00:23:52,685
Speaker 5: Like Christine was very shy.

369
00:23:53,445 --> 00:23:57,165
Speaker 2: Cindy Galen McPherson, one of Christine Herron's school friends.

370
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Speaker 13: I mean, if you didn't know it, it took a

371
00:24:00,365 --> 00:24:01,725
Speaker 13: long time to kind of.

372
00:24:01,645 --> 00:24:05,365
Speaker 5: Get to know it. And a lot of people like

373
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Speaker 5: to pick on her.

374
00:24:06,285 --> 00:24:08,045
Speaker 9: Because she was really easy to pick on.

375
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Speaker 14: How So, if somebody said, well, why don't you go

376
00:24:12,445 --> 00:24:14,525
Speaker 14: do this, she'd go and do it because she wanted

377
00:24:14,565 --> 00:24:15,445
Speaker 14: to be accepted.

378
00:24:16,045 --> 00:24:19,885
Speaker 5: People would like froll in a locker. She'd just stay

379
00:24:19,965 --> 00:24:21,925
Speaker 5: there until like, we we're gone.

380
00:24:21,765 --> 00:24:23,605
Speaker 9: And I'd come and be like, okay, you can get

381
00:24:23,685 --> 00:24:24,085
Speaker 9: out now.

382
00:24:25,005 --> 00:24:25,885
Speaker 5: She really wasn't.

383
00:24:25,685 --> 00:24:29,005
Speaker 15: Once for conflict, even if people were fighting or if

384
00:24:29,045 --> 00:24:31,125
Speaker 15: there was a chance that there could be fighting, she.

385
00:24:31,325 --> 00:24:32,045
Speaker 5: Was out of there.

386
00:24:34,565 --> 00:24:37,325
Speaker 13: We'd hang out pretty much every weekend.

387
00:24:39,605 --> 00:24:42,765
Speaker 15: The day she disappeared and I found the house, then

388
00:24:42,765 --> 00:24:44,245
Speaker 15: her mom answered and I'm.

389
00:24:44,085 --> 00:24:44,725
Speaker 5: Like, it's Christy.

390
00:24:44,805 --> 00:24:44,845
Speaker 7: Know.

391
00:24:45,005 --> 00:24:47,925
Speaker 5: She's like no, if she hasn't gotten home from school yet,

392
00:24:48,645 --> 00:24:49,765
Speaker 5: I thought it was kind of weird.

393
00:24:49,765 --> 00:24:52,205
Speaker 15: And I'm like, well she didn't, she wasn't at school,

394
00:24:52,245 --> 00:24:52,645
Speaker 15: and her.

395
00:24:52,485 --> 00:24:57,045
Speaker 14: Mom's like, oh, okay, And then I think it was

396
00:24:57,085 --> 00:24:59,605
Speaker 14: about two hours later. I got another phone call and

397
00:24:59,645 --> 00:25:01,965
Speaker 14: she's like, are you sure Christy isn't there, And I'm

398
00:25:01,965 --> 00:25:02,645
Speaker 14: like no.

399
00:25:05,045 --> 00:25:07,805
Speaker 2: Cindy and her father drove the roads that Chrissy might

400
00:25:07,845 --> 00:25:10,645
Speaker 2: have traveled to get to their farm.

401
00:25:10,565 --> 00:25:13,685
Speaker 15: And we didn't see her. So my dad's like, well,

402
00:25:13,845 --> 00:25:16,605
Speaker 15: we can't stay out, you know. So I went home

403
00:25:17,125 --> 00:25:19,085
Speaker 15: and I phoned their moment. I said, well, we didn't

404
00:25:19,165 --> 00:25:21,685
Speaker 15: find her on any other roads coming from Hanover.

405
00:25:23,165 --> 00:25:26,045
Speaker 2: Cindy had spoken to Chrissy on the phone the night

406
00:25:26,125 --> 00:25:30,205
Speaker 2: before she disappeared. They were planning the May Long weekend

407
00:25:30,325 --> 00:25:33,525
Speaker 2: where Chrissy was supposed to come to Cindy's farm.

408
00:25:34,325 --> 00:25:37,485
Speaker 15: So like I was the last person to talk to

409
00:25:37,525 --> 00:25:40,285
Speaker 15: her and everything seemed fine.

410
00:25:40,365 --> 00:25:42,485
Speaker 5: She was excited. She loved being at.

411
00:25:42,285 --> 00:25:44,965
Speaker 15: My house because of all the animals and everything like that,

412
00:25:45,805 --> 00:25:48,125
Speaker 15: saying May we had baby goats.

413
00:25:47,725 --> 00:25:51,685
Speaker 13: And sheep and calves and plaids, and she was excited.

414
00:25:51,285 --> 00:25:52,165
Speaker 5: To come and see them.

415
00:25:52,245 --> 00:25:54,405
Speaker 15: And I didn't really.

416
00:25:54,205 --> 00:25:59,005
Speaker 5: Think anything was up. Okay, So the police then did

417
00:25:59,045 --> 00:25:59,805
Speaker 5: they talk to you?

418
00:26:00,525 --> 00:26:00,685
Speaker 2: Oh?

419
00:26:00,765 --> 00:26:02,845
Speaker 13: Wait, a couple of years they come.

420
00:26:02,645 --> 00:26:03,525
Speaker 9: And May returned.

421
00:26:04,045 --> 00:26:06,645
Speaker 2: Cindy says she spoke to police several times over the

422
00:26:06,725 --> 00:26:11,045
Speaker 2: years and that sometimes they would insist that Cindy knew more,

423
00:26:11,605 --> 00:26:16,045
Speaker 2: that she knew where Chrissy was, but she didn't. The

424
00:26:16,085 --> 00:26:19,165
Speaker 2: best Cindy could do was tell police about what Chrissy

425
00:26:19,365 --> 00:26:23,365
Speaker 2: was like, her routines and habits, certain places she liked

426
00:26:23,365 --> 00:26:23,645
Speaker 2: to go.

427
00:26:25,325 --> 00:26:27,885
Speaker 13: Christy used to go and put on the swings at

428
00:26:27,885 --> 00:26:31,165
Speaker 13: the park and just think she said, that's what she

429
00:26:31,325 --> 00:26:33,325
Speaker 13: liked to do, and she wanted to think was go

430
00:26:33,365 --> 00:26:36,685
Speaker 13: and put on the swings like Cristy was a very

431
00:26:36,685 --> 00:26:40,805
Speaker 13: good friend to me, and it kind of hurts me.

432
00:26:40,805 --> 00:26:42,765
Speaker 15: To know that she's miss out on a lot of

433
00:26:42,765 --> 00:26:43,925
Speaker 15: stuff that I've gotten to do.

434
00:26:45,445 --> 00:26:49,285
Speaker 5: And what's your theory? Everyone's got one. I think somebody.

435
00:26:48,925 --> 00:26:51,565
Speaker 13: Picked her up, Chrissie. What would have gotten into a

436
00:26:51,605 --> 00:26:52,405
Speaker 13: car with somebody.

437
00:26:53,005 --> 00:26:54,245
Speaker 5: Do you think that she would have run into a

438
00:26:54,245 --> 00:26:56,485
Speaker 5: stranger's car if they were nice to her?

439
00:26:56,965 --> 00:26:59,245
Speaker 14: Probably she was like.

440
00:26:59,565 --> 00:27:02,925
Speaker 5: Just driving for some sort of Oh I doubt to

441
00:27:03,045 --> 00:27:03,485
Speaker 5: prove it.

442
00:27:04,045 --> 00:27:06,965
Speaker 14: Well, if you were and you were a nice time,

443
00:27:07,085 --> 00:27:09,725
Speaker 14: she would move having.

444
00:27:09,525 --> 00:27:10,965
Speaker 5: A night to keep that.

445
00:27:12,565 --> 00:27:13,365
Speaker 15: Like that.

446
00:27:15,045 --> 00:27:18,645
Speaker 5: I don't even know the word. I'm looking for that, Yeah,

447
00:27:18,765 --> 00:27:22,965
Speaker 5: to keep that attention on her. So do you think

448
00:27:23,005 --> 00:27:25,205
Speaker 5: she got into a car and you think that there

449
00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:26,085
Speaker 5: was the wrong car?

450
00:27:27,005 --> 00:27:27,845
Speaker 9: I honestly do.

451
00:27:30,565 --> 00:27:33,245
Speaker 2: It should be noted here that some feel Chrissy would

452
00:27:33,325 --> 00:27:36,365
Speaker 2: be shy of strangers or even run away from them

453
00:27:36,365 --> 00:27:37,245
Speaker 2: if she were alone.

454
00:27:38,645 --> 00:27:39,845
Speaker 5: Just for sure, she.

455
00:27:39,805 --> 00:27:42,205
Speaker 13: Would have phoned me if she was still alive, Like

456
00:27:42,365 --> 00:27:44,005
Speaker 13: push first, she would have phoned me.

457
00:27:44,365 --> 00:27:46,205
Speaker 5: And I kind of knew deep down.

458
00:27:46,365 --> 00:27:49,285
Speaker 15: I had to say, I'm like, she's not around anymore,

459
00:27:50,245 --> 00:27:50,845
Speaker 15: she's dead.

460
00:27:58,925 --> 00:28:01,205
Speaker 2: I'm sitting in the passenger seat as Sean and Mary

461
00:28:01,245 --> 00:28:04,485
Speaker 2: Anne give me a short tour of Hanover, Main Street,

462
00:28:04,925 --> 00:28:10,845
Speaker 2: the river, the school, the park. Population about seventy seven hundred.

463
00:28:11,005 --> 00:28:14,485
Speaker 2: Hanover rose and then fell as a furniture making capital

464
00:28:14,525 --> 00:28:18,125
Speaker 2: of Canada, with much of that business gone now overseas

465
00:28:18,925 --> 00:28:21,445
Speaker 2: a town at the time of her disappearance down on

466
00:28:21,525 --> 00:28:26,245
Speaker 2: its luck, but where Chrissy called home. Sewn and Marianne

467
00:28:26,445 --> 00:28:30,765
Speaker 2: moved not long after Chrissy disappeared to shelter themselves from

468
00:28:30,805 --> 00:28:33,965
Speaker 2: what sounds like an onslaught of neighbors.

469
00:28:35,125 --> 00:28:36,685
Speaker 5: They were very rude with us.

470
00:28:40,165 --> 00:28:43,805
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually had phone calls. You get a lot

471
00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:45,645
Speaker 6: of calls in the middle of the night, were hanging up,

472
00:28:45,805 --> 00:28:50,445
Speaker 6: so we had the hand of her. Police put a

473
00:28:50,485 --> 00:28:53,885
Speaker 6: trace on her phone so they could try and find

474
00:28:53,925 --> 00:28:56,645
Speaker 6: out who was doing the phone calls, but they never did.

475
00:28:59,365 --> 00:29:02,645
Speaker 2: A brief flurry of police activities surrounded a call that

476
00:29:02,725 --> 00:29:06,925
Speaker 2: a boy going into grade ten named mar Koons received

477
00:29:06,965 --> 00:29:10,245
Speaker 2: in July nineteen ninety three, a couple of months after

478
00:29:10,405 --> 00:29:14,965
Speaker 2: Chrissie disappeared. The call Coont's told his parents and police

479
00:29:15,405 --> 00:29:19,045
Speaker 2: came from someone who said they were Chrissy. The girl

480
00:29:19,045 --> 00:29:21,285
Speaker 2: on the other end said she was calling from a

481
00:29:21,365 --> 00:29:23,965
Speaker 2: payphone and that she was near one of the abandoned

482
00:29:24,005 --> 00:29:27,445
Speaker 2: factories in town. The person on the phone said she

483
00:29:27,485 --> 00:29:30,245
Speaker 2: had run out of money and asked Coontz to meet

484
00:29:30,285 --> 00:29:33,765
Speaker 2: her behind a shed near the school. She also told

485
00:29:33,845 --> 00:29:36,925
Speaker 2: him that she wanted to have sex with him. Coontz

486
00:29:36,965 --> 00:29:39,805
Speaker 2: says the person sounded like Chrissy, but when he went

487
00:29:39,805 --> 00:29:44,085
Speaker 2: to the shed with police standing by, nobody appeared. Later

488
00:29:44,205 --> 00:29:47,285
Speaker 2: that night, another call came in where the girl's voice

489
00:29:47,325 --> 00:29:51,045
Speaker 2: asked Kons if he had told police. He said he had,

490
00:29:51,245 --> 00:29:54,165
Speaker 2: and the voice said thanks a lot and hung up.

491
00:29:54,925 --> 00:29:58,405
Speaker 2: Coontz admitted later that he had previously received crank calls

492
00:29:58,445 --> 00:30:01,325
Speaker 2: on other topics, and also that he had not heard

493
00:30:01,405 --> 00:30:05,045
Speaker 2: Chrissie's voice for well over a year and barely knew

494
00:30:05,125 --> 00:30:06,965
Speaker 2: her or saw her even then.

495
00:30:08,365 --> 00:30:10,565
Speaker 3: We had asked for the OPP to be able to

496
00:30:10,605 --> 00:30:13,845
Speaker 3: step in. We pleaded with the hand Or police to

497
00:30:13,845 --> 00:30:16,565
Speaker 3: bring the OPPN. They said no, it was their jurisdiction.

498
00:30:16,645 --> 00:30:19,885
Speaker 3: They don't have to bring an outside source in and

499
00:30:19,925 --> 00:30:23,805
Speaker 3: it turned out to be six years later before we

500
00:30:23,805 --> 00:30:29,125
Speaker 3: were able to have the OPP come in.

501
00:30:29,125 --> 00:30:33,205
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety nine, Hanover Police requested the assistance of

502
00:30:33,245 --> 00:30:37,245
Speaker 2: the Ontario Provincial Police on Chrissy's case. At that time,

503
00:30:37,405 --> 00:30:40,165
Speaker 2: a cataloging of the case was undertaken by the OPP

504
00:30:40,885 --> 00:30:46,085
Speaker 2: and new interviews were conducted along with reinterviews. DNA samples

505
00:30:46,085 --> 00:30:48,965
Speaker 2: were taken from Mary Anne and a profile obtained for

506
00:30:49,085 --> 00:30:52,525
Speaker 2: Chrissy from a tube of her lipstick. A reward fund

507
00:30:52,565 --> 00:30:55,405
Speaker 2: for thirty thousand dollars was renewed on the ten year

508
00:30:55,405 --> 00:30:59,445
Speaker 2: anniversary of Chrissy's disappearance in two thousand and three. One

509
00:30:59,485 --> 00:31:03,605
Speaker 2: of the original investigating officers on the case, Stanley Edwards,

510
00:31:04,045 --> 00:31:08,365
Speaker 2: is charged with several criminal offenses, including robbing a bank,

511
00:31:08,805 --> 00:31:13,805
Speaker 2: forcible confinement, and sexual assault. None of the charges were

512
00:31:13,805 --> 00:31:15,205
Speaker 2: connected to Chrissy's case.

513
00:31:18,645 --> 00:31:22,005
Speaker 3: Moves back now, this talks will be nice quiet.

514
00:31:23,725 --> 00:31:26,165
Speaker 8: Did you ever receive any documents from the OPP.

515
00:31:26,045 --> 00:31:26,565
Speaker 3: By the case?

516
00:31:27,205 --> 00:31:31,205
Speaker 6: No, the opp wouldn't let us know anything.

517
00:31:31,885 --> 00:31:34,805
Speaker 8: And since that time, we're now in twenty eleven here,

518
00:31:34,885 --> 00:31:37,965
Speaker 8: what has the OPP done or to your knowledge, how

519
00:31:38,085 --> 00:31:39,205
Speaker 8: they communicate it to you?

520
00:31:39,325 --> 00:31:43,685
Speaker 6: Or they followed up on some other leads, but we've

521
00:31:43,725 --> 00:31:47,765
Speaker 6: never been told any results from those. We haven't heard

522
00:31:47,805 --> 00:31:49,805
Speaker 6: from them. So as far as I know, the case

523
00:31:49,885 --> 00:31:52,965
Speaker 6: is closed, I'll.

524
00:31:52,965 --> 00:31:54,765
Speaker 3: Get into telling you what I know to myself.

525
00:31:55,725 --> 00:31:57,605
Speaker 8: I'm going to leave you with some today that.

526
00:31:57,565 --> 00:31:58,325
Speaker 3: You guys can read.

527
00:31:59,245 --> 00:32:02,805
Speaker 2: Did you ever back at Marianne and Sean's place, I

528
00:32:02,965 --> 00:32:05,965
Speaker 2: share some documents with them that the Ontario Ministry of

529
00:32:06,005 --> 00:32:09,445
Speaker 2: the Attorney General has sent me The basic story that

530
00:32:09,485 --> 00:32:12,325
Speaker 2: they tell is known to Mary, Anna and Sean, but

531
00:32:12,565 --> 00:32:16,045
Speaker 2: the crucial details have remained hidden and out of reach

532
00:32:17,125 --> 00:32:23,365
Speaker 2: until now. Details about a local man named Anthony who

533
00:32:23,445 --> 00:32:26,205
Speaker 2: had a frustrating night at an August two thousand and

534
00:32:26,245 --> 00:32:30,965
Speaker 2: four party. He'd had a few drinks and then confessed

535
00:32:31,645 --> 00:32:45,325
Speaker 2: to killing Christine Herron. This season on Someone Knows Something,

536
00:32:45,685 --> 00:32:47,525
Speaker 2: the Christine Heron case.

537
00:32:47,925 --> 00:32:51,485
Speaker 3: The Crown Attorney told us was a slam dump. At

538
00:32:51,525 --> 00:32:56,085
Speaker 3: one point he was ninety percent sure he was going

539
00:32:56,125 --> 00:32:59,005
Speaker 3: to be convicted. Listen to me very carefully.

540
00:32:59,565 --> 00:33:02,085
Speaker 1: Right now, you're under arrest of the murder of Christine

541
00:33:02,085 --> 00:33:04,885
Speaker 1: Herron because you told that police officer that you killed her.

542
00:33:05,645 --> 00:33:09,205
Speaker 3: This story, hearing move me to a didy fuckin doesn't

543
00:33:09,205 --> 00:33:09,965
Speaker 3: weave these webs.

544
00:33:13,685 --> 00:33:14,765
Speaker 1: Did you know Christine?

545
00:33:16,285 --> 00:33:17,405
Speaker 5: Did you kill Christine?

546
00:33:18,765 --> 00:33:25,245
Speaker 2: Why did you confess to their murder? Someone Knows Something

547
00:33:25,365 --> 00:33:28,925
Speaker 2: is hosted, written and produced by me David Ridgin. The

548
00:33:29,005 --> 00:33:32,965
Speaker 2: series is also produced by Katie Swires. Sound design by

549
00:33:33,005 --> 00:33:37,725
Speaker 2: Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Knell as

550
00:33:37,765 --> 00:33:41,805
Speaker 2: our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our

551
00:33:41,845 --> 00:33:46,045
Speaker 2: executive producer is Cecil Fernandez Tanya Springer is the senior

552
00:33:46,085 --> 00:33:50,885
Speaker 2: manager and Rafnurani is the director of CBC Podcasts. If

553
00:33:50,885 --> 00:33:53,805
Speaker 2: you want to help new listeners discover the show, please

554
00:33:53,925 --> 00:33:57,685
Speaker 2: rate and review Wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook

555
00:33:57,725 --> 00:34:02,605
Speaker 2: by searching Someone Knows Something, or on Instagram. At CBC Podcasts.

556
00:34:03,245 --> 00:34:06,005
Speaker 2: You can hear next week's episode now by searching for

557
00:34:06,045 --> 00:34:09,925
Speaker 2: the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube. If you're looking for

558
00:34:09,965 --> 00:34:13,405
Speaker 2: more investigations, check out the past seasons of Someone Knows

559
00:34:13,405 --> 00:34:17,205
Speaker 2: Something from a deadly bomb hidden inside a flashlight to

560
00:34:17,405 --> 00:34:21,645
Speaker 2: two teenagers killed by the KKK. There are eight seasons

561
00:34:21,685 --> 00:34:24,365
Speaker 2: of Someone Knows Something you can binge listen to right

562
00:34:24,405 --> 00:34:28,325
Speaker 2: now wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in next week

563
00:34:28,365 --> 00:34:31,525
Speaker 2: for an all new episode of Someone Knows Something, or

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566
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Speaker 2: the link and the show description.

567
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Speaker 1: School of Humans