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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: chalk and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you

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Speaker 2: should know, everybody.

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Speaker 1: That's right, we're talking about one of the two things

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Speaker 1: switzerm One is known for.

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Speaker 2: What it's not cheese Okay, then chocolate, that's true. Three

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Speaker 2: things okay, cuckoo clocks, four things, beautiful mountains, five things.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful people, roasty, six things, seven things. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: just cut to the chase. Then there's a lot to Switzerland, everybody.

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Speaker 1: And this is just one of myriad things we could

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Speaker 1: talk about, and that is Swiss neutrality. And I think

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Speaker 1: this came to mind because of the recent talks between

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Speaker 1: the United States and Iran and a new Switzerland had

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Speaker 1: a role to play there, and I'm.

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Speaker 3: Like, what the heck is up with that country?

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Speaker 2: Did you say that out loud?

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Speaker 3: I think I did, And Ruby was like, what country did?

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Speaker 2: It's a good idea, Chuck. I had no idea about this,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not sure if I ever would have thought

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Speaker 2: of doing one on this, but it's actually pretty interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and thanks to Olivia. But I now understand it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should say that. Right before we started recording,

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Speaker 2: Jerry announced that she is the Switzerland of stuff. You

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Speaker 2: should know.

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Speaker 3: Jerry likes to think she is.

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Speaker 2: Well, then who would be the Switzerland?

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Speaker 3: We have no Switzerland.

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Speaker 2: Okay, who are you?

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Speaker 3: Uh? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm a mix of Turkmenistan and Denmark. Okay, all right, great,

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Speaker 2: And that's just where we're going to leave this, because

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Speaker 2: let's get back to talking about Switzerland, which is, like

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Speaker 2: you said, known for many things, and this neutrality thing

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Speaker 2: I had no idea, but it is in stark contrast

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Speaker 2: to how Switzerland used to be during the Middle Ages

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Speaker 2: or medieval times, if you're one of those people who

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Speaker 2: goes to medieval times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know we should point out too, Switzerland's

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Speaker 1: not the only neutral country. I think Livia found twenty

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Speaker 1: to twenty five basically neutral countries around the world. But

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Speaker 1: Switzerland it's a real like when you think of neutral countries,

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Speaker 1: I think most people would say Switzerland because they've taken

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Speaker 1: not just neutrality as a stance, but like a really

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Speaker 1: active neutrality and like, hey, come and settle your warring

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Speaker 1: disputes here in our friendly confines, or your financial disputes

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Speaker 1: and our friendly confines.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. As a matter of fact, Switzerland is the only

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Speaker 2: country that comes to mind when I think of neutrality.

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Speaker 2: I had honestly no idea that other countries were officially neutral. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like Ireland is Did you know that?

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Speaker 3: No, but I believe it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, at any rate, Yes, they are the standard,

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Speaker 2: the gold standard, the Nazi gold state of neutral countries. So,

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Speaker 2: like I said, the whole thing kind of, I think

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Speaker 2: it was officially neutral as of like the eighteen teens.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and then eighteen fifty one, I think when

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Speaker 1: they formerly became a country. But right, but yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you promised talk to the Middle Ages. And it is

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Speaker 1: interesting that we can go back to the thirteenth century

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Speaker 1: to kind of see the beginnings of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently this is where William Tell comes from too.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that? No? I know shamefully little about

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Speaker 2: William Tell's I was reading I think it's swiss info

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Speaker 2: ch They're like the English speaking outlet for Switzerland, and

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Speaker 2: this article this guy was writing. He's like, we all

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Speaker 2: know the story of William Tell, blah blah blah, And

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Speaker 2: I was like, actually, I don't know anything that you

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Speaker 2: just mentioned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. He has a heck of an overture, that's

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Speaker 1: all I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently so I here in the United States, everybody,

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Speaker 2: we're that William Tell shot the apple off of his

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Speaker 2: kid's head to show off like his skills. Apparently he

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Speaker 2: was forced to do that by some evil, evil Austrian

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Speaker 2: like overlords who had taken over Switzerland. And William Tell's

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Speaker 2: actually a resistance fighter who helped Switzerland overthrow those Austrian overlords. Fantastic,

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Speaker 2: but he comes out of this time, right. So, Switzerland,

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Speaker 2: like you said, until the eighteen fifties or sixties, was

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Speaker 2: a confederation. It's still known as the Swiss Confederation of Cantons,

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Speaker 2: which would be like states, provinces, maybe counties, but they're independent,

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Speaker 2: little municipalities that all together form Switzerland or the Swiss Confederation.

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Speaker 2: And that's where the whole thing starts. Back in twelve

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Speaker 2: ninety one, there was an alliance between three of these cantons.

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Speaker 2: Now there's like twenty five Uri, Schwitz, Schweits maybe and

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Speaker 2: untor Walden Valden Walden, yeah, yeah, and they formed the

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Speaker 2: valds Thought Alliance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Stett Stett Voldstetta Alliance.

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Speaker 1: I would say, I think I don't know if the

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Speaker 1: East pronounce well, I know that that gives you a

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Speaker 1: certain thrill, but I think the umlaut would make it

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Speaker 1: a stett stett.

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Speaker 2: Say it again, say the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: The Woldschtez Alliance. These were basically free peasants at the time,

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Speaker 1: and they you know, partially the reason this all goes

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Speaker 1: down is because of their location in the Alps, kind

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Speaker 1: of isolated from a lot of Europe. And so they

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Speaker 1: were isolated, these free peasants from a lot of the.

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Speaker 3: Feudal hierarchies all over Europe.

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Speaker 1: And they were like in a good like geographic position

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Speaker 1: because they were there in those mountain passes with Italy

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Speaker 1: to the south and you know German speaking people's to

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Speaker 1: the north, and so they were there as like hey,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of here in the middle. So that kind

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Speaker 1: of started the whole thing of like, hey, everyone wants

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Speaker 1: to get along with them because they needed them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've they've from time to time served as a

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Speaker 2: very useful buffer which has helped other outside nations support

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Speaker 2: their bid for neutrality right and just to be left alone. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: at the same time, that isolation, like you said, from

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Speaker 2: time to time some of their neighbors would break it

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Speaker 2: and try to basically take over Switzerland and in wood

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Speaker 2: to varying successes from time to time. Like I said,

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Speaker 2: but the isolation and the fact that they were mostly

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Speaker 2: independent made Switzerland or still to this day, that gave

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Speaker 2: them this fiercely independent streak as a nation that they

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Speaker 2: see themselves as like it's a different thing. They're separate thing.

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Speaker 2: They're nothing like a typical nation whatsoever. They're their own thing.

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Speaker 2: And one of the big things, you can almost call

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Speaker 2: it a brand, is their neutrality.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And when they formed that Bulstead Alliance, it wasn't the

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Speaker 1: biggest deal because that that had always kind of been

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Speaker 1: the deal with them, So it was really just renewing

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Speaker 1: these ties that had already been around for a long time.

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Speaker 1: But everyone later on would say, oh, actually, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of when Switzerland started coming together as what would later

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Speaker 1: be a country. Yeah, And then more cantons came aboard,

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Speaker 1: the alliance got a little bigger and started getting referred

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Speaker 1: to as the old Swiss Confederation the new one that

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Speaker 1: we have now, and that's when they started becoming like

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Speaker 1: a real kind of piece of the military puzzle that

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Speaker 1: was going on all around them.

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Speaker 2: I'm very I'm certain when back in the thirteenth century

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Speaker 2: they were confused when people called it the Old Swiss

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Speaker 2: Confederation because it was present to them.

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Speaker 3: They're like, what are you talking about.

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Speaker 2: So it was around this time that the Swiss actually

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Speaker 2: became militarily mighty. The Swiss actually were known for their

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Speaker 2: warlike tendencies and their excellent fighting skills, so much so

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Speaker 2: that as they kind of grew and started to take

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Speaker 2: part in European wars during the medieval era. In the

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Speaker 2: very very early modern era, apparently Niccolomachiavelli referred to them

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Speaker 2: as the new Romans, this conquering group of incredibly well

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Speaker 2: trained fighters that were willing to take on the world. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: that's that was the image of Switzerland. It's like the

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Speaker 2: total opposite of how we viewed Switzerland.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: And you know, they had some pretty decent military upsets

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Speaker 1: leading up to the beginning of the sixteenth century, and

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Speaker 1: that's when they started to kind of move away from

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Speaker 1: that idea because there were some really big countries and

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Speaker 1: countries getting together and like forming larger alliances around them,

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Speaker 1: and they were, you know, they were still even though

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Speaker 1: they had some military might, they realized they were probably

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Speaker 1: smallish compared to other places that were popping up around them, sure,

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Speaker 1: notably the Holy Roman Empire. Of course, France, Spain and

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Speaker 1: Italy kind of all over the place over there trying

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Speaker 1: to get at least control in the sixteenth century of

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Speaker 1: the Duchy of Milan, and that's when the Swiss came

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Speaker 1: out and they're like, hey, you know, the different cantons

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Speaker 1: had different ideas on who they should support, which would

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Speaker 1: kind of become a recurring theme of like who they

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Speaker 1: should have allegiance to and not necessarily agreeing. So maybe

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Speaker 1: remaining neutral was the best path of least resistance, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But in this case, at the time, they started out

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Speaker 1: backing France, then switched to the Italians, and then at

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Speaker 1: the Battle of Mariniano in fifteen fifteen, the French kind

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Speaker 1: of kicked their butts, the French and Venetians, and they

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Speaker 1: were like, all right, we lost ten thousand infantry people,

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Speaker 1: so like, maybe we need to really rethink putting our

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Speaker 1: eggs in baskets of other countries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, ten thousand was half of the entire Swiss military

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Speaker 2: force was killed at this one battle. So yeah, It

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Speaker 2: was a really big deal, so much so that they

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Speaker 2: were like, yeah, this whole warlike thing is not really

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Speaker 2: working out all of a sudden, let's explore the idea

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Speaker 2: of being neutral. And it wasn't just that, but from

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Speaker 2: everything I've seen, that battle was a decisive turning point

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Speaker 2: for the mentality among the Swiss about, you know, taking

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Speaker 2: part in European wars. But there were other things that

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Speaker 2: kind of contributed to that decision. One was the Protestant Reformation,

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Speaker 2: because different cantons in different parts of the country supported

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Speaker 2: or were Protestant or were Catholic, right, Yeah, And that's

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Speaker 2: a very sticky situation when you're trying to keep these

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Speaker 2: cantons part of a confederation. Right, there's no central government

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Speaker 2: that's telling the cantons, no, you can't do this, No

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Speaker 2: you can't do that. They're a confederation essentially, so they're

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Speaker 2: all still quite independent, but they're all still also Swiss.

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Speaker 2: So that in and of itself meant like, how can

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Speaker 2: you participate in European wars when half of your cantons

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Speaker 2: want to go to war with one another?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You know, in the wars out and the rest of

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Speaker 2: Europe are about are between Protestants and Catholics like, you

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Speaker 2: just can't do that. So the Swiss said, you know what,

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Speaker 2: let's just stay neutral. And this is a good example

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Speaker 2: of how being neutral has literally kept the country together

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Speaker 2: many times over the years, Like where they're like, our differences,

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Speaker 2: as our differences of opinion are too great right now

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Speaker 2: among the Cans, so we're just going to not have

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Speaker 2: an opinion officially as a country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that helped was they got a pretty sweet

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Speaker 1: financial deal out of the end of the conflict with

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Speaker 1: France in fifteen sixteen. That peace treaty gave them access

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Speaker 1: to French markets. They had I think internally they were like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they noticed, but we can do

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Speaker 1: business with France now, and we could already do business

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Speaker 1: business with other people, So let's just keep flying under

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Speaker 1: the radar here financially speaking, because they've got the best

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Speaker 1: of both worlds. So they had no one to like

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Speaker 1: financial incidentive to bust up. Almost said bust that move,

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Speaker 1: but that would be the right term.

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Speaker 2: Ial think bus a move on French markets. Yeah, sure, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so yes, this is where their business image also started

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Speaker 2: to Yeah, this is where the three piece suit was

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Speaker 2: invented in the peace treaty between France and Europe in

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Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen.

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Speaker 3: And let's see, here's a great example. I have no

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Speaker 3: idea whether to believe you or not. At this point

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Speaker 3: in my life.

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether to believe me or not.

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Speaker 3: Even at least were aligned.

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Speaker 2: So this is a I don't know if you're picking

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Speaker 2: up on this, chuck. This is a time of frequent

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Speaker 2: wars across Europe. And that's the problem. When you put

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Speaker 2: authoritarian despots in charge with limitless riches. They the elites

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Speaker 2: wanted to compete among themselves because they want to have

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Speaker 2: the biggest castle, or I want to have the most

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Speaker 2: people at my command. Yeah, I want to torture the

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Speaker 2: most people, right, And they start competing with each other

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Speaker 2: and they send their own people off to war with

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Speaker 2: one another. It's a great lesson today. It was something

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Speaker 2: to learn from, and it happened a lot during this era.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of threats to

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Speaker 1: kind of break up this neutrality. The Thirty Years War

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Speaker 1: was a big one in sixteen eighteen because again they

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Speaker 1: were divided sympathies I guess within those cantons, because what

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Speaker 1: you talked about, but religion for the most part, and

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Speaker 1: if you got involved in that war as Switzerland, that

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Speaker 1: would have kind of torn apart this confederation that they

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Speaker 1: had worked so hard to keep together. And so again

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Speaker 1: they were like, hey, let's we got to keep a

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Speaker 1: good thing going here. Let's remain neutral. And in sixteen

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Speaker 1: forty six the Swedes were sort of threatening them, and

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Speaker 1: so they're like, well, we need to at least have

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Speaker 1: an army though for national defense. We can be neutral,

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Speaker 1: but we can't be we can't be rubesure. So each

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Speaker 1: canton had like quotas for troops that they had to supply,

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Speaker 1: and that's when they were like kind of formed that

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Speaker 1: army of for defense purposes, which still exist today.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, they created an army in sixteen forty six,

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Speaker 2: and then two years later really big thing happened. It's

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Speaker 2: just enormous. I'm really impressed. There is this guy named

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Speaker 2: Johann Rudolph vechtein Yeah, sounds great. He was the mayor

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Speaker 2: of Basil, right, and the Thirty Years War came to

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Speaker 2: an end in sixteen forty eight through the piece of Westphalia,

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Speaker 2: and vechtein Stein showed up to the piece of West

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Speaker 2: Fallia Treaty negotiations. He said, I'm glad you guys are

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Speaker 2: doing this. This is fantastic. Keep up the good work. Also,

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Speaker 2: I want to talk to everybody about something, even though

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Speaker 2: I'm just the mayor of Bosel. I want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that Switzerland is represented here because we're just neutral

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Speaker 2: and we think that we should no longer be under

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Speaker 2: the thumb of the Holy Roman Empire. We think that

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Speaker 2: we should have recognition as an dependent nation and also

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Speaker 2: we want to be neutral too, And he got it

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Speaker 2: passed through, like he gained recognition from these major powers

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Speaker 2: of Europe that Switzerland was now its own country. Holy

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Speaker 2: Roman Empire, Sorry, you just lost Switzerland.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that was I'm not sure how he

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Speaker 1: pulled that off actually at the time, you know.

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Speaker 2: With a lottery chocolate I'll tell you.

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Speaker 3: That, yeah, and cuckoo clocks.

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Speaker 1: So about one hundred years after that, there was another

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Speaker 1: threat to their neutrality. This was seventeen nineties, late seventeen

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Speaker 1: nineties when the French Revolutionary Republic and Austria and Russia

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Speaker 1: were going at it and they kind of eat that

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Speaker 1: battle into Switzerland some and I think after that victory

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Speaker 1: that was like seventeen ninety eight, close to eighteen hundred,

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Speaker 1: the French government created the Helvetic Republic assistern Nation, and

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Speaker 1: that covered a lot of Switzerland.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They basically, he said, oh, we just happened to

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Speaker 2: create this country that just is within the borders of Switzerland.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Switzerland, see some overlap there, guys. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They basically turned it into a territory. And this is

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Speaker 2: pretty much par for the course for Napoleon. He really

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Speaker 2: kind of sealed the deal when he sent an army

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Speaker 2: to occupy Switzerland, I guess to protect his new made

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Speaker 2: up country of Helvetic. I want to say Helvetica is

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Speaker 2: so bad. But he essentially plundered Switzerland for the next

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Speaker 2: decade in resources and humans. And actually, when he invaded

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Speaker 2: Russia in eighteen twelve, he brought some Swiss troops with

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Speaker 2: him and they did not do very well there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they sent nine thousand troops in seven hundred only

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Speaker 1: seven hundred came home. Yeah, you know, the tide finally

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Speaker 1: turned against Napoleon, and so they were like, all right, thank.

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Speaker 3: God, we got rid of this guy. Yeah. And so

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Speaker 3: after the Battle of.

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Speaker 1: Leipzig in I believe eighteen thirteen, they were like all right,

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Speaker 1: we're back to being neutral again. We do have our

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Speaker 1: military force, but we're not gonna fight anymore. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: in December of eighteen thirteen, when the Austrian Imperial Army

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Speaker 1: was like, all right, we want to march through your

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Speaker 1: country to go to France, They're like, fine, go right ahead,

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Speaker 1: we'll just let you do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they just turned their backs and whistled. So one

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Speaker 2: other thing happened. There was another another guy named Charles

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Speaker 2: Pictet de Rochemont, and also in eighteen thirteen, during the

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Speaker 2: peace treaty that ended well Napoleon's reign, I guess essentially

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Speaker 2: he showed up and he said, also, we want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we're still getting recognized. We're now the

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Speaker 2: Swiss Confederation. And everyone said, you mean the old Swiss

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Speaker 2: Confederation and de Rochemont said, no, no, this is brand new.

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Speaker 2: It's a new Swiss Confederation. You guys are gonna love it.

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Speaker 2: And he was first just the mayor of Geneva, which

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Speaker 2: was actually a city state, independenceay state, part of a

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Speaker 2: canton now and I guess he did such a good

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Speaker 2: job that he ended up representing Switzerland as a whole.

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Speaker 2: And this is where their perpetual neutrality was established at

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Speaker 2: the eighteen fourteen Congress of Vienna.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and that was it.

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Speaker 1: I mean people generally look back to eighteen fifteen as

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Speaker 1: like that's when everything really officially kind of started. When

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Speaker 1: they became a unified federal state in eighteen forty eight,

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Speaker 1: was when the final stamp was stamped.

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Speaker 2: Right, So now we've reached the point where modern Switzerland

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Speaker 2: is born and it is officially neutral. It's a sovereign nation,

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Speaker 2: but it's still a confederation. Don't forget that.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and that is where we're going to take

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Speaker 1: a break and we'll be right back with more Swiss

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Speaker 1: neutrality right after this.

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Speaker 2: So, Chuck, we're in Switzerland now. It's a nice established

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Speaker 2: country and part of it is very lovely. Part of

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Speaker 2: what you said it needs and should have is a

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Speaker 2: military for defense, and still today it has a military.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I believe this month the military assembled like

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Speaker 2: four thousand troops along the border to basically just keep

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Speaker 2: any of the ne'er do wells at the G seventh

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Speaker 2: summit spilling over, because the G seventh summits in France

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Speaker 2: right now, that's right, But there I guess military presence

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Speaker 2: states back I mean much further obviously, but the modern

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Speaker 2: version of it is from like the nineteenth century, I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, they have to abide by certain

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Speaker 1: rules that have happened since then, like the the Hague

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Speaker 1: Convention nineteen oh seven. If you're a neutral country, which

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Speaker 1: I guess there's like twenty three or so now that

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Speaker 1: we've learned that, they can't fight in a war. They

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Speaker 1: can't support any other countries warring parties. They can't send

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Speaker 1: them weapons like most other countries do. They can't send

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Speaker 1: money to help out in a war. They can't say hey,

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Speaker 1: we'll host a base here, or your foreign troops can

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Speaker 1: stay here for a little while. So, you know, they

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Speaker 1: have to remain truly neutral under the Hague Convention, which

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Speaker 1: they were. I'm sure they were quite delighted to make

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Speaker 1: it official. But they again they've maintained that army because

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Speaker 1: they have to have their own defense. And also we

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Speaker 1: should point out that the Swiss army knife kind of

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Speaker 1: came around in the nineteenth century, the eighteen eighties. It's

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Speaker 1: like a literal, you know, if you didn't think the

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Speaker 1: Swiss had an army, they had a knife named after them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course they had an army.

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Speaker 2: For sure, and I mean it really is this army knife.

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Speaker 2: They just call it the army knife. I'm guessing in Switzerland,

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Speaker 2: but everywhere army knife, Swiss army knife. Yeah. Like the

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Speaker 2: cake roll.

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Speaker 3: God, I forgot about the cake roll that's another thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I don't know that they know that Little

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Speaker 2: Debbie is putting their name on its cake rolls, because

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Speaker 2: I think they would have a problem with that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: look it up, Switzerland, You're not going to be happy.

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Speaker 2: So World War One was a threat. Obviously all of

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Speaker 2: Europe was fighting, but I don't believe Switzerland was drawn

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Speaker 2: into it much. World War Two was a much greater threat.

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Speaker 2: They had to work much harder to stay neutral and

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Speaker 2: to keep the other countries out. And when Germany occupied France,

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Switzerland was surrounded by the Axis

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Speaker 2: and it was a very nervous time. And they managed

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Speaker 2: to to amass an army of I think four hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand troops in the Alps, and they let everybody know

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Speaker 2: we're staying neutral, but if you come here, we're going

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Speaker 2: to beat you badly. And it generally worked. I saw

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Speaker 2: that they were accidentally bombed several times that other powers

385
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Speaker 2: basically said, oh, we didn't mean to bomb you, sorry,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we killed a bunch of your people.

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Speaker 2: But for the most part, you know, it worked in

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Speaker 2: that they were never invaded by anyone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: You know, just because your neutral doesn't mean that you

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Speaker 1: have like you're not taking part in anything to do

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Speaker 1: with the war. So they've as you'll see, you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about a little later. They have a long

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Speaker 1: tradition of receiving refugees like war refugees, but kind of

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Speaker 1: shamefully like the US and a lot of other places

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Speaker 1: during in the aftermath or during World War Two, they

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Speaker 1: they prevented a lot of Jewish people from from the

398
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Speaker 1: Holocaust from finding refuge there. So that's that's one of

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Speaker 1: the sort of dark spots.

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Speaker 2: Sure. And then still today, if you are a man

401
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: between ages eighteen and thirty four, you have to enlist

402
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 2: in the military, or if you're a conscientious objector and

403
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: say I'm not carrying a gun around, you can also

404
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: there's some civilian services you can enlist in. And then

405
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 2: if you're a woman you can also do it, but

406
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Speaker 2: it's voluntary, you're not required to and I think today

407
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Speaker 2: they have one hundred and fifty thousand active and reserved troops,

408
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Speaker 2: and just like back in the day, each canton has

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Speaker 2: to fulfill a quota and they have their own civilian

410
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Speaker 2: defense forces.

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Speaker 1: That's right, which is you know, it would be foolish

412
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Speaker 1: not too at this point in world history for sure.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there's still a military despite the fact that

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Speaker 2: they're neutral. I feel like we've managed to drive that

415
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Speaker 2: point home.

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Speaker 3: That's the stuff you should know. Ay, So.

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Speaker 1: This whole idea that we mentioned kind of early on,

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Speaker 1: as as Switzerland taking an active role in neutrality and

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Speaker 1: not just being like, hey, just leave us alone, sure,

420
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Speaker 1: where they're like, we will host your your dealings with

421
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Speaker 1: one another, and we've become a center of arbitration for

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Speaker 1: the world. Basically that started out basically in like the

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Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century. The Geneva and Basil Chambers of Commerce

424
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Speaker 1: said hey, let's get a system together and let's make

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Speaker 1: this like, let's get serious about this and put some

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Speaker 1: structure around what we want to do. And they got

427
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Speaker 1: their first stab at that, I guess in eighteen seventy two,

428
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Speaker 1: when it was around the Civil War, when negotiators from

429
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Speaker 1: the United States and Great Britain went to Geneva and

430
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: worked out what we're called the Alabama Claims, which were

431
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Speaker 1: about losses caused by these British built Confederate ships, one

432
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Speaker 1: of which was the Alabama during the Civil War. Britain

433
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: ended up having to pay damages there and that started

434
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Speaker 1: the whole system of like saying, hey, Geneva's pretty nice,

435
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: you guys, we're pretty chill, and why don't you just

436
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: come here to settle your disputes in our courtroom, the

437
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: people's court, right, and then the bongo jobs started.

438
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: I did not see Alabama coming up in an episode

439
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: on Swiss New Neutrality, did you.

440
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: I did not either.

441
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: So since then, like you said, they literally wrote the

442
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: rules on arbitration, and since then, like they have had

443
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 2: some pretty high profile arbitration meetings, so much so that

444
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: they eventually worked what are called the good Offices, which

445
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 2: are everything from like a meeting place to mediation services

446
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: for arbitration. It's worked into the Swiss Federal constitution, so

447
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: they like that's a huge part of Switzerland maintaining its neutrality,

448
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 2: as saying like, come take advantage of our neutral territory,

449
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: like this is a place where you can meet and

450
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: work out your differences. Let's all just work out our differences.

451
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 2: Guy and I saw chook. One other thing that they do,

452
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: which is really surprising. They represent the interests of country

453
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: who are not speaking to each other. So I think

454
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: that they represent Iran in Canada. So let's take Iran's like,

455
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: we're not even talking to you Canada anymore. We're gonna

456
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: get Switzerland to meet with you. We're not even going

457
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: to be in the same room with you. They do

458
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: that for several different countries.

459
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's uh, they provide a service. I

460
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: wonder what kind of like do they charge a fee

461
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: for this?

462
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure that there's fees involved.

463
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: Sure, even if it's just like you know, the hotels

464
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: in Geneva are very overprised.

465
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: Dude, I'll bet you their like, like coffee service at

466
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: these meetings.

467
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 3: And comences are amazing.

468
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean because they got they got to get

469
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: something out of it besides neutrality.

470
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: Sure. So, I you know, I knew like the Swiss

471
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: were known for being very business like. I did not

472
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: realize the extent that that is true. I believe that

473
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: the Swiss mentality is generally like, yes, it's business. We

474
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: conduct our business appropriately fairly, like we are really good

475
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: at it. We have good contracts, like we are really

476
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: business like, and that that is like, yes, that they

477
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: are probably getting something for all of the services they're providing,

478
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: because that's business.

479
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure. Yeah, I bet you're absolutely right.

480
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: They're also known for their real push toward humanitarian aid

481
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: all around the world, especially during times of conflict. Yeah,

482
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: no less than the Red Cross, still based in Geneva,

483
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: and if you look at their symbol, it's the inverse

484
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: of the Swiss flag and that's no accident. But that

485
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: all started out because of a Genevan businessman named Henry

486
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: Jannant Saint Henry, Yeah for real. In eighteen fifty nine,

487
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: he was in Sulfarino, a town in the north of

488
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: Italy who's there for work, and he saw the aftermath

489
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: of a battle between French and Austria and saw like

490
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: forty thousand you know, dead and wounded soldiers all about him,

491
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: and it really really moved him and put a dent

492
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: in a psyche. I think because he got like personally involved,

493
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: started helping out locals, started providing medical assistance, dressing wounds,

494
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: like you know, literally himself doing this and spoke to

495
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: French officials. It was like, hey, you got a bunch

496
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: of Austrian surgeons who are POW's, like, let them out

497
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: and let them help their own people, and let them

498
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: help your people. And it moved him to the point

499
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: where he kind of dedicated his life to it. He

500
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: wrote a book called A Memory of Sulfurino and talked

501
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: about these experiences in the creation of these committees that

502
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: would train volunteers, and that's the stuff that would become

503
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: the first national Red Cross Society.

504
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: Yeah you feel like, okay, that's pretty impressive. Well prepare

505
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: for this one too. You've heard of the Geneva Convention

506
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: of the Treatment of Prisoners of War.

507
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well.

508
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: That was his work. He started arguing and lobbying for

509
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: some sort of international agreements on how to treat the

510
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: sick and the wounded in the prisoners of war and

511
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: that became the first Geneva Convention in eighteen sixty four.

512
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: Pretty great.

513
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: And the YMCA that you know in love he didn't

514
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: create the YMCA, but do not really made it a

515
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: global global movement and the World Alliance of the YMCA

516
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 1: is also still in Geneva.

517
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: So two things when I hear YMCA, obviously think village people.

518
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: But I also think of this great moment from a

519
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: Simpsons episode where Lionel Hutts is staying there at the

520
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: YMCA and he's asleep, sitting down with his backup against

521
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: the wall and his knees pulled up to his chest

522
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: and his elbows on his knees and his head down,

523
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: so you can imagine, and I think Bart and Lisa

524
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: walk up and wake him up, and he suddenly comes

525
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: awake and he has it. He brandishes a knife and

526
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: he says, don't touch my stuff. Like that's he was

527
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: staying at the YA. That was his experience there.

528
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: That's pretty good. I love it, oh man, Lionel huts

529
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: was the best.

530
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: Yes he was, so if you're like, okay, still Dunant's impressive.

531
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: But he was probably also just some crazy billionaire who

532
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: just wanted to make a good name for himself wrong.

533
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, all of this humanitarian work

534
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: that he focused on led to him becoming bankrupt. He

535
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: wasn't paying enough attention to his business, and so he

536
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: lost his business, became bankrupt and essentially unknown for a

537
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: couple of decades until eighteen ninety five. There was a

538
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: journalist who's like, oh my god, this guy. I know

539
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: this guy, and he's living like obscurely in poverty. I

540
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: need to let everybody know about him. And he was

541
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: one of the co recipients of the first Nobel Peace

542
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: Prize in nineteen oh one. Quite rightfully so. But this

543
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: guy was seriously, legitimately a good person.

544
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've seen this kind of one of my favorite things.

545
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: It happen quite a bit in history where someone has

546
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: done great things, but we're sort of lost to history,

547
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: and then some journalists or somebody in or historian dug

548
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: them up, well not literally, but you know, dug up

549
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: their legacy and brushed it off and said, hey, how

550
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: about this awesome person that we kind of forgot about.

551
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice when they're still alive too, so they

552
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: can get the recognition. And maybe you're like, Okay, I'll

553
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: bet he owned slaves or something like that. Nope, he

554
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: was agitating for the abolition of slavery, or he was

555
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: a gun nut. Nope, agitating for disarmament like he was.

556
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: He was a humanitarian, if there was ever a humanitarian.

557
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I say we take another break.

558
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: Is that good? Yeah? I think we're at a good break.

559
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: Let's all just think about how great Henry Don is.

560
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: All right, Let's spend a few moments doing that, and

561
00:31:49,160 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: we'll be right back. All right. I dwelled on the.

562
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: Life of Henry do not, and I feel even better

563
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: than I did a few minutes ago.

564
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: Same.

565
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: But we're gonna move on and talk a little bit

566
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: about some of the you know, it's not all I

567
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, one sort of darkness and that

568
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: they didn't allow Jewish refugees en mass during World War Two.

569
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: There's some other stuff that they have on their record

570
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: that's not the greatest in the world. I guess we

571
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: should talk about Nazi gold a little bit. But in

572
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: order to talk about that, we should probably talk a

573
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: little bit about just there. You know, you talked about

574
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: them being, you know, brilliant business people and a center

575
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: for business around the world. That happened because after they

576
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: became formerly neutral in eighteen fifteen, they said, you know what,

577
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: this is probably a good place for people to put

578
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: their mind because we're neutral.

579
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: It's safe.

580
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: Anytime there's a lot of chaos around the world, like

581
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: with World Wars, everyone knows that they can come here

582
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: and do some banking. We may not be like, you know,

583
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: like a world banking center with like by the likes

584
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: of London or Berlin, but we can become pretty quietly

585
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: powerful in our own way, especially if we tell everyone

586
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: that all their business will be super private, if you

587
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.

588
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they put an emphasis on that kind of thing,

589
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: where like, if you open an account in Switzerland for

590
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: decades and most of the twentieth century in fact, if

591
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: not longer, you could have a secret bank account where

592
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: like nobody could really figure it out. And that's it's

593
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: not fully true. Like I think if say the US

594
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 2: government came with a subpoena to find out who the

595
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: owner was of a specific account, this was we'd cooperate

596
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: with them. But for the most part, this was secret stuff, right,

597
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: and that was how they made their name as an

598
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: international banking center. But also because like again they are

599
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: really really good at business, so you knew that this

600
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: was like your money was safe not just because Switzerland

601
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: was stable, but because their banking system was incredibly stable.

602
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: So a lot of people took advantage of that. Dictators,

603
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: money launders, eventually, drug dealers, terrorists, basically anyone Jackie Chanen,

604
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: anyone you can think of who wanted to evade taxes,

605
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: launder money, or just wanted to have their money stashed away,

606
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: you know, quietly, and weren't really breaking any laws. You

607
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: went to Switzerland. Like it's almost a trope. I think

608
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: it is a true the secret Swiss bank account that

609
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: you would have money transferred to.

610
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that officially became official with the Federal Banking

611
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: Act of nineteen thirty four, to the utter delight of

612
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: screenwriters everywhere then and to come. But that unfortunately dried

613
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: up in the nineteen nineties when they were like, all right,

614
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: no more secret accounts. I guess we got to get

615
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: rid of that provision. But yeah, it worked this way

616
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: into a lot of movies over the years, just like

617
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: you know, a numbered Swiss bank account that's growing up with,

618
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: especially like Cold War movies and stuff like that, spy thrillers.

619
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: It was always like a secret Swiss bank account. I

620
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: feel like at play.

621
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: They ended up removing that ability from the Swiss banking

622
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: system because it started to come out just how many

623
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: bad guys, right, we're using it where in Switzerland was

624
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: allowing it to happen, So their banking system took a hit,

625
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: you know, it's image, and they're like, we can't afford

626
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: to do that. We're not making enough money off of

627
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 2: drug dealers and terrorists. We need to you know, brush

628
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: our image back up. So that's when they got rid

629
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: of that.

630
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and their image probably needed a little brushing up

631
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: because you know, I think I mentioned something about Nazi gold,

632
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: or if I didn't, I'm mentioning it for the first

633
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: time now. But they because of World War Two, they

634
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: the Swiss National Bank ended up buying about four hundred

635
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: and forty million dollars in Nazi gold, which was basically,

636
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, laundering that gold that was plundered that we've

637
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: talked about a lot of times, like the plundering of

638
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: World War two of the Germans from you know, different countries,

639
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: brutally from Holocaust victims. I know, we've mentioned stuff like

640
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: gold dental fillings and stuff. Yeah that was real, Yeah,

641
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: from Jewish concentration camp victims. And so it's not a

642
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: good look for the Swiss National Bank to be holding

643
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: onto this stuff. So later, with the Washington Agreement of

644
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, they were made to return, well at

645
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: least some of that Nazi gold not much of it,

646
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: only about twelve percent of it supposedly to its rightful owners,

647
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: and that's you know. They ended up using it for

648
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 1: other stuff too, though. They used to sometimes is funds

649
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: to repay citizens of Switzerland who had seized property by

650
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: communist regimes in Europe. So they were like, hey, maybe

651
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: we'll use some of this Nazi gold to repay our

652
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: own coffers.

653
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you said that, they, you know, basically laundered it.

654
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: They one hundred percent laundered this. So they the Nazis

655
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: showed up with literally tons and tons of gold, hundreds

656
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: of tons of gold that was stolen from other countries,

657
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 2: gave it to Switzerland. Switzerland gave the Nazi regime money,

658
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: lots and lots of money in return, and then Switzerland

659
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: turned around and took that gold and sold it to

660
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: Spain and Portugal. So they fenced stolen gold for the

661
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 2: Nazis and gave the Nazis money in return. It's as

662
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: simple as that. People then know this until the nineteen nineties,

663
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: when Switzerland was sued by a few organizations, including the

664
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: World Jewish Congress. That was bad enough. So this is

665
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: coming out at the same time that the secret account

666
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: stuff is coming out too, So Switzerland's taking like one,

667
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 2: two punches, haymakers, ropidopes even left and right. And then

668
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: on top of that, even worse, you said that they

669
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: were returning twelve percent of the Nazi gold to its

670
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: rightful owners as part of the Washington Agreement of nineteen

671
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: forty six. Well, a lot of people who were fleeing

672
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: Germany or fleeing the Nazi regime, or fleeing the Holocaust

673
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: but wanted to kind of keep their valuables in a

674
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 2: safe place went to Switzerland to put money in bank accounts,

675
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: to put valuable items in safe deposit boxes. And after

676
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: the war ended, their heirs would show up and say,

677
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: you know, my grandpa or my dad or somebody put this,

678
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: you know, this family heirloom, this hope diamond in a

679
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: safe deposit box in your bank, and I'm here to

680
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,479
Speaker 2: claim it. Here's all the documentation that i'm their rightful heir.

681
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: And they would say, all of your papers look like

682
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: they're in order, but I don't see a death certificate.

683
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: And the air would say, well, my father or grandpa

684
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: or whatever died in a concentration camp. The Nazis didn't

685
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: issue death certific kids for that they kind of wanted

686
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 2: to keep it secret, and this Swiss would say, sorry,

687
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: can't help you, and they did that across the board.

688
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: So they basically kept hundreds of millions of dollars is

689
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: the accusation of legitimate deposits from legitimate errors of victims

690
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: of the Holocaust.

691
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and well a lot of times they didn't even

692
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: have documentation at all, you know, much less death certificates

693
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: because that stuff was destroyed in the war. Finally, in

694
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: nineteen forty six they promised to say, all right, we're

695
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: gonna find these assets of Holocaust victims from people who

696
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: have no like, identifiable errors, and we're going to at

697
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: least transfer them to a Jewish reconstruction organization. And decades

698
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: later they basically concluded that that didn't really happen. And

699
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: then nineteen ninety I think was when you said, finally,

700
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: like fully like was exposed and there was a sus

701
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 1: from the World Jewish Congress that got a one point

702
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,720
Speaker 1: two to five billion dollar settlement.

703
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: Finally in nineteen ninety eight.

704
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again since then, the Swiss have been doing

705
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: everything they can to kind of rehabilitate their image, but

706
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: at the same time, they have also shown like they're

707
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: not ones to just immediately bow to international pressure. The

708
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: way that you get them is to hit them in

709
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: their pocketbooks, like threaten their business or their entire banking industry.

710
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: That's kind of what the pressure from the outside world

711
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 2: was doing. Yeah, so sure they seem to have rebounded largely.

712
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: There are some other things that make Switzerland peculiar too

713
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: that are much less evil or dark. One is that

714
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: they really are in a kind of a weird position

715
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: as far as international groups go. Like in some ways,

716
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 2: like it makes a lot of sense that they're the

717
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: host of the International Red Cross headquarters Geneva, is right,

718
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: But what about the UN? Should they be members of

719
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 2: the UN? The UN? Does they have like peacekeeping troops

720
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: with guns and stuff like that? Is what are the

721
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: ramifications of Switzerland joining the UN? And they debated that

722
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: for decades.

723
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they finally, I mean it wasn't until two thousand

724
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: and two that they even joined the UN. And like

725
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: you said, it took a long time to kind of

726
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: work out internally whether or not that's something they wanted

727
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: to do or that would kind of ruin all those

728
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: decades and decades of neutrality that they had become known for.

729
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: There was a referendum that they eventually voted on whether

730
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: or not to become a member, and advocates said, you

731
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: know what, if we get involved with them, we can

732
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: get involved and still like be committed to mediation and

733
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: humanitarian aid, like that will be our role within the UN.

734
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: Right.

735
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 3: And it was a pretty close vote.

736
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: It was fifty four point six in favor and twelve yeah,

737
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: almost like right at half. Twelve out of the twenty

738
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: three cantons voted yes. And then finally in twenty twenty

739
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: three it became a non permanent member of the UN Security.

740
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 3: Council, that's those peacekeeping troops.

741
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: That's right, And that was another you know, it wasn't

742
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: It was pretty evenly split as well, so like even

743
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: within the country they've always sort of hedged like whether

744
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: or not they wanted to support joining up with these

745
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:17,959
Speaker 1: world groups, you know.

746
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: Right exactly, and for good reason too. I mean it's

747
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: tricky stuff. One of the places or one of the

748
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: groups that they are just roundly rejecting, so much so

749
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: that they basically told the EU like we're not we're

750
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: not negotiating anymore, We're not joining the European Union, and

751
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: the reason why they actually have pretty legitimate reasons why,

752
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: especially if you come at life from a business like attitude.

753
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 2: But one is that they would immediately be a net contributor.

754
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: They would be paying out way more than they were

755
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: benefiting from being a member of the EU. And the

756
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: reason why is because they basically have cherry treaties with

757
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 2: all of the European countries to do business with them,

758
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: which is like the attractive thing for a rich country

759
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: to join the EU. So they have that without being

760
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: part of the EU, without having to pay into the

761
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 2: EU right now, So they have the best of both

762
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 2: worlds and really negative incentive, a number of negative incentives

763
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 2: to join the EU.

764
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

765
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: Another is they just they really love taking care of

766
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: their own business what they would call direct democracy and

767
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: deciding for them what's best for them. And if you're

768
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: part of the EU, then obviously you're part of a

769
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: larger collective and you don't like just individual citizens' ability

770
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: to decide things for themselves and hold those referendums that

771
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: would go away, and so they're not into that. And

772
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: also just you know, they built up this neutral brand

773
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: over the years and it's not like branding, branding but

774
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: it kind of is, and that they don't want to

775
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: just throw that all away. After again, you know, more

776
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: than one hundred years more than that actually of like

777
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: being known. Like you know, when you think neutral and

778
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: you think chocolate and you think cuckoo clocks and army knives,

779
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: you think of Switzerland, and they don't want that to

780
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: go away.

781
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you think thirst, you think sprite. When you

782
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: think neutral, you think of Switzerland.

783
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: That's right.

784
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: There's another thing too that being a member of the

785
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: EU means that any member nation or the residents of

786
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: any member nation or the EU can move to your

787
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 2: place unrestricted as far as I know. So immigration is

788
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 2: free throughout the European Union, and Switzerland's like, we actually

789
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 2: are pretty strict on immigration, and we're worried that if

790
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: we get a lot of people migrating to Switzerland, the

791
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: wages in Switzerland are going to start to be decompressed

792
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: because a lot of people migrating here are willing to

793
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: accept far less than what the average Swiss person is paid.

794
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, essentially, every they have all these incentives, you know,

795
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 2: morally upstanding or not to not join the EU, and

796
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: it does not look like they are ever going to

797
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: join the EU.

798
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, or NATO obviously, that's a warring organization for sure,

799
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: or not a warring organization, but a military alliance for sure.

800
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: And for all of its blemishes and rough spots and

801
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: all that, I hope Switzerland stays Switzerland.

802
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 3: You know, it would be I think everyone does.

803
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: I think the world would kind of lose something if

804
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 2: if Switzerland just became like any other country. You know, agreed, Well,

805
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: that's Switzerland, Chuck, Swiss neutrality, I should say, that's right.

806
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Swiss neutrality, travel

807
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: of Switzerland, or watch a documentary on Switzerland. And in

808
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: the meantime, it's time for listener mail.

809
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: There's another Mash follow up. Hey guys, huge Mash fan.

810
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm a bit older than Chuck and still only twelve

811
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: when it debuted. It was a perfect blend of comedy

812
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: and poignant drama showing the horrors of war. I always

813
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: thought the writing was brilliant and did take characters on

814
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: a great growth art being a closeted gay kid now

815
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 1: openly and very happy gay man.

816
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 3: It was one of the first times.

817
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: That a TV show dealt with the subject of homosexuality

818
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: in a sympathetic way, even if only on one episode.

819
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: I was such a fan that I'd developed a mash

820
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: trivia game similar to Trivial Pursuit, and a number of

821
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: details you mentioned in your episode were part of the game,

822
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: like Toledo and Tony Pacos.

823
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: So great job, guys.

824
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: You always do a great job and are so pleasant

825
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: to listen to on my daily walks and whenever you

826
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: guys touch on LGTVQ plus topics.

827
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 3: You do an amazing jobs to straight guys. So thank

828
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: you for that.

829
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: And that is from Dave in Vancouver. And Dave, I

830
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: hope you're coming to see our live.

831
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 3: Show in Vancouver. Yeah, we can't wait.

832
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: There's still tickets available for all of the Well, I

833
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: guess the first LUG will be over by this time,

834
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: but that second leg in July I believe is probably

835
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: somewhere around this time.

836
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 3: We'd love to see everyone.

837
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: Coming up quick, Dave, So yeah, we'd love to see

838
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: you too. You can watch Just be Too Straight Guys

839
00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: live and in person.

840
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: That's right.

841
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: If you want to be like Dave and let us

842
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: know how much you like us, we really appreciate those

843
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 2: kind of emails. Or you can say whatever you like

844
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: whatever you have to say, send it off to stuff

845
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

846
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

847
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

848
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.