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Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and

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Speaker 1: Culture Latino USA. Latin Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa. We

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Speaker 1: bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you,

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Speaker 1: overlooked by the wrestler media, and while the country is

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Speaker 1: struggling to deal with these week listen to the stories

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Speaker 1: of Black and Latino Studios United, Latino Front, a cultural

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Speaker 1: renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement. I'm Maria Inojosa, novaan.

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Speaker 2: Ola. Dear listener, It's Andrea Lobescrusado, Latino USA Senior Editor.

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Speaker 2: You might have heard about Flaming Hot, a new movie

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Speaker 2: directed by Eva Longoria about Richard Montagnes, the Fredo Let

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Speaker 2: Mexican janitor who invented flaming hot chittos or so goes

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Speaker 2: the story well. Two years ago, I had the chance

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Speaker 2: to edit a conversation between Richard Montages and Lajefa, my

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Speaker 2: boss Marinojosa, and we thought that this was a good

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Speaker 2: time to revisit that episode. When we originally published the story,

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Speaker 2: Richard was facing controversy after the La Times published a

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Speaker 2: long article titled the Man who Didn't invent Flaming Hot Chittos.

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Speaker 2: Some people were upset with Richer for sustaining what they

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Speaker 2: felt was alive for so long. Others were upset with

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Speaker 2: the La Times for what they perceived to be a

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Speaker 2: tearing down of a successful Latino businessman. But we realized

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Speaker 2: that this controversy was so much more than just about

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Speaker 2: a snack. It was a story about race, identity, culture

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Speaker 2: and the stories that we choose to believe. Here's Marino

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Speaker 2: Josa with the story.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I was devastated. I was just like, what

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Speaker 3: the heck is this all about? And then I was

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Speaker 3: disappointed because it took Pepsicle so long that get involved, engage,

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Speaker 3: you know. And my understanding was there was a lot

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Speaker 3: of my communication.

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Speaker 1: From Futro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Marie Jossan,

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Speaker 1: and today Latino USA takes on the Flaming Hot Cheetos controversy.

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Speaker 1: A conversation with the man at the center of it all,

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Speaker 1: Richard Montagnees. For over forty years, Richard Montagnees had a

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Speaker 1: successful career as a motivational speaker.

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Speaker 3: I realized that as much as I wanted to fit in,

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Speaker 3: I was never credit to fit in. I was created

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Speaker 3: to stand out.

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Speaker 4: That's why a lot of you young people, your whole life,

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Speaker 4: you felt like I don't fit in.

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Speaker 5: Because you're not supposed to.

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Speaker 1: You're supposed to stand out. And as a vice president

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Speaker 1: of Multicultural Sales and Community Promotions at PepsiCo, he had

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Speaker 1: been called the godfather of Hispanic branding and was considered

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Speaker 1: one of the most influential Latinos in corporate America. His

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Speaker 1: rags to Rich's story was truly the stuff of legends.

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Speaker 1: He's one of ten children born to Mexican field workers

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Speaker 1: in Gusti, a town in southwestern California where Italian and

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Speaker 1: Mexican immigrants once all shared the same occupation picking grapes.

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Speaker 1: Richard began working as a janitor at Frido Lay in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, when he was just eighteen years old. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: he climbed the ranks to being a top executive at

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Speaker 1: the Fortune five hundred company. He says this happened after

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Speaker 1: he presented an idea to his superiors. It was a

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Speaker 1: pitch that he says, would later be turned into the

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Speaker 1: trademark Flaming Hot Cheetos line. The spicy Injurine red snacks

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Speaker 1: are today one of Fredo Lay's top selling flavors. Oh

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Speaker 1: there it is.

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Speaker 3: What if I put chili on hot cheeto?

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Speaker 1: So I went to work.

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Speaker 3: You know, I actually made up my own seasoning, you

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Speaker 3: know all that, and put it on an unseasoned cheetle.

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Speaker 3: My wife took some to work, I took some to work,

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Speaker 3: and everybody fell in love with it.

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Speaker 1: All of this was an American dream like story that

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Speaker 1: most people knew and loved up until very recently. In

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Speaker 1: May of this year, The La Times published a story

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Speaker 1: under the headline the Man who Didn't invent Flaming hot Cheetos.

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Speaker 1: In a five thousand plus word investigation, business reporter Sam

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Speaker 1: Dean revealed severe inconsistencies in the timeline of Richard's storytelling.

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Speaker 1: The article, for which Sam says he contacted dozens of

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Speaker 1: former employees and poured through years of newspaper archives, disputes

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Speaker 1: the story that people have been hearing for so long

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Speaker 1: told from the point of view of Richard Montagnez. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people were shocked by the revelations in the

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Speaker 1: La Times. A lot of people also wondered why, after

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Speaker 1: nearly two decades, was this version of this story just

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Speaker 1: coming out. There were also people who were outraged at

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Speaker 1: what they perceived as an attempt to bash a successful

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Speaker 1: Latino businessman.

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Speaker 6: Mass hysteria. He was going to get blowback, and I actually,

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Speaker 6: Warren Sam, you better have all your facts together, everything

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Speaker 6: lined up, because people are gonna be angry.

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Speaker 1: That's author and La Times columnist Gustavo Arellano.

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Speaker 7: There's so few of us who have made it to

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Speaker 7: any kind of position of prominence that an attack on

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Speaker 7: like one of the few people that somehow made it

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Speaker 7: to the top, feels like it's an attack on everyone.

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Speaker 1: And that's the voice of Rachel Reyes. She's a community

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Speaker 1: organizer based in Los Angeles. We're gonna hear more from

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Speaker 1: Gustavo and Rachel later as we try to understand why

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Speaker 1: this story isn't just about a processed snack food, but

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Speaker 1: it's more a story about race, identity, culture and also

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Speaker 1: the stories we choose to believe. So, in all transparency,

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Speaker 1: Latino USA had scheduled an interview with Richard Montagnez way

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Speaker 1: before the La Times Peace draw Then he postponed it

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Speaker 1: and got back in touch, and this is our conversation.

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Speaker 1: All right, Richard Montagnez, Welcome to Latino USA.

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Speaker 3: Oh my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: So listen, Richard, we're basically just going to jump in.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is that we were set to

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Speaker 1: do an interview with you, and then the LA Times

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Speaker 1: breaks a story that basically challenges a great deal of

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Speaker 1: what you've been saying about your role in the creation

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Speaker 1: of flaming hot cheetos. I mean, how would you describe

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Speaker 1: that first week after the La Times investigation came out?

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Speaker 3: Oh, Jeeves, I describe it as walking through hell. You know,

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Speaker 3: you just you gotta keep walking, you don't stop. I

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Speaker 3: mean I found out, you know, the Sunday morning. I

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Speaker 3: didn't read the article, but you know, my phone was

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Speaker 3: going crazy, you know, people say, check out this article,

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Speaker 3: and I like what what? Then I saw, you know,

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Speaker 3: just the headline in itself. I'm just totally confused. I

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Speaker 3: just you know, I couldn't understand. I was trying to

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Speaker 3: figure this out, what is this? Is this true? You know,

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Speaker 3: just you know, just confusion. And then and then I figured, okay,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, something, something's not right here. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I was devastated. I was just like, what the heck

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Speaker 3: is this all about? And then then I was then

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Speaker 3: I was disappointed because it took pepsicle so long to

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Speaker 3: get involved, engage, you know, and then you know, my

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Speaker 3: understanding was it was a lot of miscommunication. So it was,

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Speaker 3: you know, man that never experienced anything like that, you know,

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Speaker 3: never in my entire life or whatever, wish that on anyone.

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Speaker 3: It was. It was ver y. I'm still trying to

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Speaker 3: get over you know, I'm in a healing process right now.

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Speaker 1: I said, look, Richard is not going to give us

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Speaker 1: the interview today. I said, Richard's entire world is crumbling

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Speaker 1: right now in the midst of trauma or tragedy or

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Speaker 1: you know, shock. Can you tell me about what those

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Speaker 1: days were, like, how did you wake up and keep going?

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Speaker 1: And what do you call it trauma or how do

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Speaker 1: you what's the word that you use?

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Speaker 3: The word I've been using is just uh devastated.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 3: It was really really difficult. And then I had to

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Speaker 3: block my social media because I was active getting threats.

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Speaker 3: So it was getting a little kind of fearful there.

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Speaker 3: You know, I have you know, grandkids, I have children.

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Speaker 3: I was like, man, this is impacting everyone, and you know,

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Speaker 3: so I've decided to stay away from you know, trying

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Speaker 3: to read anything. You know, everything was about you know

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Speaker 3: you need to die and burn and hell like, whoa

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, you don't know who I am.

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Speaker 1: What did the worst moment look like? If you don't

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Speaker 1: mind sharing with us, Well.

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Speaker 3: I think just being called a liar, you know, just

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Speaker 3: reading it. And then I just stopped reading stuff. I

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Speaker 3: had to because you know, it'll drown your it'll drown

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Speaker 3: your spirit. I just you know, stayed on the positive side.

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Speaker 1: So did you see that there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: people One of them is prominent Julisa had to say.

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Speaker 1: The author and activist who really came to your defense?

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Speaker 5: Perap's a good just issued a statement in support of

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Speaker 5: Richard Mondayes. It reads, in part, the information we share

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Speaker 5: with the media has been misconstrued. Looking at you, La times.

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Speaker 1: What do you think that they were defending? What did

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Speaker 1: you understand? What did they tell you and how did

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Speaker 1: you take that part of the story.

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Speaker 3: I was encouraged that, you know, they came into my

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Speaker 3: defense or maybe not me personally, but the defending of

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Speaker 3: you know, Latino or Chicano you know, so I thought

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Speaker 3: that was uh for me, It was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 3: have a family, you know, I do have a family.

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Speaker 3: I do have people, you know, people remember that all

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Speaker 3: the good that I've done and they know who I am.

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Speaker 3: So it was it was it was really good for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering what you think about the fact, Richard, that

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Speaker 1: given the moment that we're living in in the United

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Speaker 1: States of America, like in the beginning of summer of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, in hopefully a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: post pandemic world, but where really you know, there's been

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Speaker 1: a recent war going on in the Middle East, like

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Speaker 1: it's just been a you know, there's a lot going on,

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering what you think about the fact that

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Speaker 1: somebody would call in a tip to the La Times

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Speaker 1: and basically say, hey, hot Cheetos guy is a farce,

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Speaker 1: is a lie, and that the LA Times would then

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Speaker 1: assign at least one reporter to basically do a deep

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Speaker 1: investigation into your entire story and dispute it from start

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Speaker 1: to finish. I'm wondering what you think about the fact

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Speaker 1: that they did that, because that is part of the conversation,

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Speaker 1: right why put in the effort to take down this guy.

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Speaker 3: The first thing is I was really amazed, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a snack. I'm just like, wait a minute, it's snack.

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Speaker 3: I people care that much? Is it worth somebody's time?

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Speaker 3: You know. I was just totally amazed. And then I

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Speaker 3: couldn't believe it. You know again, it took me a

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Speaker 3: while to know this, this is really happening. It was

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Speaker 3: just totally amaze, you know. I mean, without everything going

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Speaker 3: on in the world, you know, you're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about hot cheetles.

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Speaker 1: In his investigation, Sam spoke to Lynn Greenfeld, a former

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Speaker 1: Fredo Lay employee, and she claims to be the true

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Speaker 1: inventor of flaming hot cheetos. Frida Lay told Sam that

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Speaker 1: none of its records showed that quote Richard was involved

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Speaker 1: in any capacity in the flaming hot test market unquote. However,

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Speaker 1: in the days following the publication of the article, PepsiCo,

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Speaker 1: Fredo Lay's parent company issued another statement saying the information

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Speaker 1: it had with the media had been misunderstood by some,

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Speaker 1: resulting in and I'm quoting here confusion around where we stand,

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Speaker 1: a range of emotions among our employees and consumers, and

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Speaker 1: a strain on our valued friendship with Richard Montagees and

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Speaker 1: the Latino community. The company also said that it attributed

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Speaker 1: the launch and success of flaming hot Cheetos to several

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Speaker 1: members of its staff, including Richard Montagnees. And let's take

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Speaker 1: a moment now to go through the looking glass and

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Speaker 1: see the complicated history of the Freedo Lay Company. It

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Speaker 1: begins with a man from Kansas. His name is Charles

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Speaker 1: Elmer Doolin. Back in nineteen thirty two, he buys the

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Speaker 1: Freedo chip patent from a Mexican guy named Gustavo Orgin.

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Speaker 1: Here's Doolin's daughter Kalita. In a two thousand and seven

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Speaker 1: episode of The Kitchen Sisters, he.

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Speaker 8: Bought the recipe Patten and customers from a man who

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Speaker 8: was from Mexico who lived in San Antonio. It's a

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Speaker 8: massa fried and a corn oil salted. Dad named it

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Speaker 8: Friedo's means fried thing. That's what they are at Mexico.

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Speaker 8: They're frietos, the beach food, the little fried stuff.

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Speaker 1: It would be the beginning of a billion dollar enterprise

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Speaker 1: which actually owns its success to the appropriation of Mexican

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Speaker 1: food and culture. In nineteen fifty five, Frido Le opened

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Speaker 1: La Casa de Fritos in Disneyland. They sold Mexican food

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Speaker 1: frequently had madiacci performances, and of course everything came with

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Speaker 1: the side of fritos. It was believed that the Casa

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Speaker 1: de Fritos at Disneyland was the birthplace of the dorrito,

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Speaker 1: another wildly popular Fredo Lay product that has been long

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Speaker 1: attributed to a Fridolet employee named Arch West. However, that

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Speaker 1: origin story has also been contested. Gustavo at A, the

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Speaker 1: columnist at the LA Times who we heard from in

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Speaker 1: the intro, is also the author of the book Doco Usa,

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Speaker 1: How Mexican Food Conquered America. While doing research for his book,

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Speaker 1: Gustavo uncovered the true origin of doritos.

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Speaker 6: When I was doing my story about my book, Arch West,

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Speaker 6: executive with Frido Le, passed away and you see all

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Speaker 6: these obituaries, you know, The Los Angeles Times included MPR

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Speaker 6: saying that Arch West was a man who invented Dorito's.

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Speaker 6: Where I'm like, let me investigate this a little bit,

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Speaker 6: and I turned out that it wasn't Arch West. It

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Speaker 6: was actually the Morales family of Anaheim, who were pioneers

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Speaker 6: in their own way in southern California with a brand

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Speaker 6: of tamalis called EXCELLENTI Tomali's.

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Speaker 1: They told me the story. They gave documents to me.

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Speaker 6: I confirmed the story with Kalida Doolan, who's the daughter

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Speaker 6: of Elmer Doolan.

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Speaker 1: But even Gustavo didn't think of investigating.

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Speaker 6: Richard's story was just so again, it was such a

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Speaker 6: feel good story. I'm like, eh, I don't need to

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Speaker 6: confirm it. It really was just bad reporting on my part.

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Speaker 6: I don't know if I would have discovered the way

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Speaker 6: Sam I samd and my colleague did discover the whole cheesemay,

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Speaker 6: but I should have asked questions everything else. I asked

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Speaker 6: questions for flaming hot cheetos, I did it.

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Speaker 1: And continuing with our journey into the interesting history of

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Speaker 1: the Freedo La Company, in the late nineteen sixties, they

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Speaker 1: create the Freedo Bandido.

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Speaker 9: Hello, signor, I am the Frito Bandido. Oh, don't be afraid.

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Speaker 9: I am not going to steal your Frido's orange cheeks.

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Speaker 9: I bite him from you, okay, gee, I give you

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Speaker 9: a sheeal.

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Speaker 1: Word, no sheal word.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I give you gold you know, like golden.

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Speaker 9: Neither and maybe you lin better some later, eh.

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Speaker 3: Citizens protect yourselves.

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Speaker 1: The Freedo Bandido was a short fact gun carrying Mexican

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Speaker 1: thief or bandido in Spanish, who had a thick mustache

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Speaker 1: and even thicker Mexican accent and threatened to steal your

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Speaker 1: fritos at gun point. Richard and I remember that character

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Speaker 1: pretty well. I remember that when everybody started boycotting Fritos

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Speaker 1: and the Freedo because it was like you had to

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Speaker 1: boycott because it was the age of boycotts, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was the United farm Workers. We were

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Speaker 1: boycotting grapes, and then all of a sudden, it was like,

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Speaker 1: and now you got to boycott Fritos, and you can't

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Speaker 1: eat Fritos and you should not at all, like the

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Speaker 1: Freedo Bendido, and it's just like, oh, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: it's a little confusing.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't anything about Latina, so you know, I would

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Speaker 3: take whatever was out you know, I loved Speedy Gonzales.

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Speaker 3: I was never offended, but I didn't know what discrimination was.

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Speaker 3: It's just we took whatever was out there. The TV shows,

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Speaker 3: you know, everybody was you know, was wide and all

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Speaker 3: the dads were in a suit and all the moms

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Speaker 3: were in dresses. And then you know, I'd look at

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Speaker 3: my dad, you know, he'd be completely third in our uniforms.

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Speaker 3: It was hard to understand. It was hard to understand,

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Speaker 3: so we took whatever would come our way.

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Speaker 1: The Freedo Bandido didn't last long as the Freidro La mascot, though.

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Speaker 1: By nineteen seventy one, only four years after the Bandido

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Speaker 1: first appeared, the Mexican American Anti Defamation Committee filed a

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Speaker 1: multi million dollar lawsuit and was able to push the

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Speaker 1: Frido La company to abandon their Freedo Bandido campaign, arguing

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Speaker 1: that the character portrayed Chicanos and Mexicans as lazy, thieving people.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA, we continue our conversation with

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Speaker 1: Richard Montaignes, and we also speak to two people on

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Speaker 1: opposite sides of the Flaming Hat Chitos fiasco. Stay with us,

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Speaker 1: not Bayes. Hey, we're back. In the first part of

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Speaker 1: our story, we heard about Richard Montagnees's initial shock with

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Speaker 1: the La Times piece. Now we're going to hear from

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Speaker 1: people who came to his defense or didn't. We're also

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Speaker 1: going to check in with Sam Dean, the author of

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Speaker 1: that La Times piece. Since their inception, hot cheetos have

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Speaker 1: become a widespread cultural phenomenon. There have even been songs

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Speaker 1: named after the snack.

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Speaker 9: Hakazi shakis hate I said, Shakis, I'll take it enough

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Speaker 9: of this.

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Speaker 1: Off the stack, and they've gone from being just a

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Speaker 1: snack to being a symbol of urban black and brown

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Speaker 1: culture and Richard Montagnez, along with the myth surrounding his

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Speaker 1: Rags to Rich's story, was effectively turned into a folk

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Speaker 1: icon by the Mexican American community in Los Angeles. That

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Speaker 1: is until The La Times decided to follow an anonymous

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Speaker 1: tip that stated that Richard's claim to fame was nothing

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Speaker 1: more than that a myth. One of the strongest voices

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Speaker 1: that rallied to Richard's defense was Rachel Reyes, a community

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Speaker 1: organizer from Los Angeles. Rachel, who he heard from briefly

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show, wrote an op ed

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Speaker 1: titled hot Cheetos are Los Angeles. It was published by

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Speaker 1: knock LA, a nonprofit community journalism project.

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Speaker 7: It felt so personal to my own understanding of myself

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Speaker 7: as a Mexican person, but also as an Angelino. They

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Speaker 7: never write about us. When they do, this is what

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Speaker 7: we get and all of the things that you could

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Speaker 7: find to write about in the city. This is a dynamic,

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Speaker 7: vibrant city full of so many stories that need to

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Speaker 7: be told, and this is what they chose to focus on.

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Speaker 1: For Rachel, Richard's story is reflective of so many others

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Speaker 1: that she often hears as a labor rights organizer in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles County, stories of hard working Latinos and Latinas

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Speaker 1: who put in the extra hours to gain some level

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Speaker 1: of respect from their employers, only to continue to be

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Speaker 1: undervalued and underappreciated.

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Speaker 7: Ooh, and I'm going to try to not get emotional.

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Speaker 7: It's so silly, right because, like it's the subject is

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Speaker 7: on Cheetos, But it's so much more than that, you know.

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Speaker 7: I do think about how hard my dad has worked

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Speaker 7: in non union jobs his entire life and has had

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Speaker 7: no protections, but has gone into work every day and

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Speaker 7: worked so hard and has given everything.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 7: Richard talks a lot about how hard he worked mopping

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Speaker 7: floors and mopping them twice and just doing a really

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Speaker 7: good job and having that work ethic. And that's something

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Speaker 7: that's taught a lot in our communities, and that's what

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Speaker 7: I grew up with, and that's what I hear in

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Speaker 7: his story. I hear the importance of hard work and

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Speaker 7: a strong work ethic, and so to have that being

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Speaker 7: diminished by a white reporter really clearly struck a nerve

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Speaker 7: in me.

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Speaker 1: Here's a disclaimer for you, Rachel Ray is used to

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Speaker 1: date Sam Dean, the reporter who wrote the La Times piece.

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Speaker 7: So it upsets me because it reminds me of so

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Speaker 7: many of the stories that I heard growing up, the

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Speaker 7: ways you have to do things to get reciged and

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Speaker 7: respect in the workplace that often go completely unnoticed. And

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Speaker 7: finally someone's hard work was noticed. So yeah, we want

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Speaker 7: to hold onto that story.

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Speaker 1: Gusta bo Adellano felt that the backlash that came from

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Speaker 1: the Latino community towards the La Times and against him

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Speaker 1: too personally. He said it was actually largely misdirected.

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Speaker 6: I understand we do not have the best reputation when

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Speaker 6: it comes to treating Latino writers right, or even covering

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Speaker 6: Latino writers right. And I know this because I wrote

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Speaker 6: a whole history for our paper examining our pathetic legacy

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Speaker 6: of both of those situations. But now I'm trying to

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Speaker 6: tell people like, look, I I'm telling you as a

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Speaker 6: guy who wrote the book on Mexican food in the

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Speaker 6: United States, I believe this story. Then of course people

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Speaker 6: telling me, oh, you're trying to tear down a successful

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Speaker 6: Mexican and for me, I'm like, wow, this is really

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Speaker 6: insulting because it shows that no one read my book,

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Speaker 6: or no one even reads what I write, because I

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Speaker 6: have an entire rear of lifting up Latinos, especially Mexican

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Speaker 6: food entrepreneurs in in industry that has always just gone

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Speaker 6: after them. It was a total novella. I know, I

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Speaker 6: know it's a cliche to say, but it's a It

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Speaker 6: was a total novella.

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Speaker 1: This takedown by a white male reporter at the La Times,

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Speaker 1: a legacy paper with a reputation of not always treating

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Speaker 1: the Latino community and its own Latino staff, fairly made

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Speaker 1: the article that much more incendury for many, including Rachel.

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Speaker 7: You know, we're not at a place in our city

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Speaker 7: or in the world, frankly, where race isn't a problem,

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Speaker 7: where capitalism isn't a problem, where workers' rights are all

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Speaker 7: good and everyone's happy. So the way those three things

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Speaker 7: intersect with this story are incredibly important, and the fact

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Speaker 7: that that wasn't made clear to anyone before they hit

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Speaker 7: published is alarming.

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Speaker 1: For Gustavo the need to publish this story was crystal clear.

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Speaker 6: I think the job of a news organization is go

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Speaker 6: after the story, whatever the story may be, no matter

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Speaker 6: how much blowback you might get. And I see why

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Speaker 6: people are like, why on earth did you spend so

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Speaker 6: many words on a flaming hot cheetos story? But I

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Speaker 6: got to say, I think given the blowback that the

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Speaker 6: story received, you know why, because this was something that

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Speaker 6: mattered to a lot of people. This was something that

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Speaker 6: was going to resonate. And if you're gonna let your

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Speaker 6: emotions get in the way of facts, that says more

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Speaker 6: about you than it does about the paper that reported it.

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Speaker 6: So what does it say about us that we'd rather

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Speaker 6: prop up people who took credit for junk food, We'd

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Speaker 6: rather prop them up as heroes than actual heroes.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, let's go back to my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Richard Montingez, the guy who kind of started this all. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting I think Latinos and Latinas and

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Speaker 1: Mexicans actually, and Mexican immigrants, especially after the last presidency

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump that begins his campaign essentially attacking Mexican immigrants,

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Speaker 1: calling us, you know, basically the worst thieves, takers, in impostors,

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Speaker 1: liars in many ways, not using those words per se,

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Speaker 1: but implying. I think, and I wonder if how you

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Speaker 1: see the fact that you know, there's this kind of

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Speaker 1: feeling that we've been through a lot, and that Latinos

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Speaker 1: and Latinas and Latino immigrants have been attacked a lot.

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering how you saw what happened to you,

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Speaker 1: which really was a very quick takedown in relation at all,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you didn't this to the kind of moment

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Speaker 1: that were living in, you know, just coming out of

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Speaker 1: and still you know, the narrative around immigrants and Latinos

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Speaker 1: and Latinas as takers is still very present. So I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering if you thought about what happened within that larger context.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I did, and actually I thought about that before

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Speaker 3: this even happened. You know, It's something I was always

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Speaker 3: thinking about because again, you know, I was a child

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Speaker 3: during the civil rights movement of the sixties. That's also

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Speaker 3: you know, part of the reasons that you know I had,

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Speaker 3: you know, shared some of the products that I created.

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Speaker 3: I just thought, you know, what if people could see

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Speaker 3: and taste my culture, they will see and taste in

430
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: my culture is a beautiful, extravagant culture. That was the

431
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 3: motive for that was never about money, It was never

432
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: about a promotion.

433
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: You know, as I was thinking about your story, I

434
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: started thinking about myths and myth building. And you know,

435
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: this country, the United States, is really in many ways

436
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: based on multiple myths. I mean, I'm steps away from

437
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: the Statue of Liberty and we say we're an immigrant

438
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: and refugee loving country, and then it's like, are we

439
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, or the myth that Columbus quote unquote discovered

440
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: America or you know that Thanksgiving with this you know,

441
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: family dinner between indigenous people and the pilgrims, you know,

442
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: and also there's the myth of the American dream, which

443
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: your story really kind of affirmed. There is the absolute

444
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: factual truth that you started as a janitor and you

445
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: end up at a very high level. But there is

446
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: this question of mythology in our country, and there's a

447
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: lot of myth. Even as a salesperson, I mean, am

448
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: I right? Like, in order to do sales and you're,

449
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, you're in marketing and sales, there's a lot

450
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: of myth that comes with that, Am I right? I

451
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: don't know about that well, because some people are saying

452
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: that in part of your story there's a certain mythology

453
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: and that you know that it could have existed on

454
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: its own. I mean, have you thought about it within

455
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: that context?

456
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: No?

457
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: No, I mean I know what I did.

458
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 8: I know uh.

459
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 3: What I accomplished. You know, I know how long it

460
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: took me to get to where I'm at and uh no,

461
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 3: I mean not at all. I'm just uh, you know,

462
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 3: just telling people what I did and it's up to

463
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: people to, you know, choose whether they believe it or not.

464
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: I'm not going to, you know, defend myself against things

465
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 3: like that. I can't. It'll be it'll be never ending. Hmmm.

466
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: I mean you did go on Instagram and you basically said, hey,

467
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: make sure you keep your receipts, right, what did you

468
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: mean exactly?

469
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: I said, write down your history because if you don't,

470
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 3: somebody else will. You know, so I want to make

471
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 3: sure that young people, you know, hey, learn learn from

472
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: this situation. You know, write everything down, Write your history down.

473
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 3: It's your life. It's a little difficult when somebody else

474
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: is trying to write the history on how you live

475
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 3: when you were the one that was there.

476
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering how you feel about what happened in

477
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: terms of the corporate response. First, there were twenty years

478
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: where basically they didn't say much, you know, one way

479
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: or another. Then it seems that they were kind of

480
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: refuting what you were saying. And then they were like, well,

481
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: actually kind of everything is okay. It's yeah, he's part

482
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: of it actually in general, and it's all kind of murky,

483
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: and this is you know, these are again, love the

484
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: you love the corporation, you love the company. What's your

485
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: understanding of how they've handled this and there their own murkiness.

486
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 3: Well, I haven't had any communication with them, so just

487
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: been whatever you've read. I've read the same thing. But

488
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: all I can say is forty two years, you know,

489
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: the people that were there there anymore. So I don't know.

490
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: I mean, the CEO that was there, you know, in

491
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 3: his own words, came out and defend it. So I don't.

492
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: I can't answer that because I was just reading what

493
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: you were reading.

494
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: So so let me just be clear, Richard. So you've

495
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: had no communication with PEPSI COO at all since the

496
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: La Times article came out. No, you like haven't said

497
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: like gotten in touch and said, hey, why are you

498
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: discrediting me? No you didn't. You didn't pick up the

499
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: phone and have an angry chat.

500
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 8: No.

501
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: No, But I know that there's a reconciliation coming, you know.

502
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: I know that we're going to reconcile. I mean, you know,

503
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: bring closure to this. I don't have the facts. I

504
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: don't have the facts of what this reporter was doing.

505
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: I don't have any of that, you know. So I'm

506
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: trying to figure this out.

507
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: So it breaks my heart to have to ask this question,

508
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: because I will admit there have been times in my

509
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: life when eating cheetos really brought me a tremendous amount

510
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: of comfort. But and you know this, Richard, like cheetos

511
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: are probably an all processed food, are probably the worst

512
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: things that we can eat. And there's been this kind

513
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: of like you know, the story, your story. It was

514
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: a beautiful story to in fact help sell this. It

515
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: was like, look, this Latino man helped create hot cheetos.

516
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: You know, so you can you know, as you're a

517
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: Latino or you know, because this is very popular in

518
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Latino black and brown communities, you can feel better because

519
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: it was kind of made by a Latino. It was

520
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: created by a Latino, but you know in Mexico where

521
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: Cheetos and hot Cheetos sell like a lot. You know,

522
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: obesity is one of the number one is you know,

523
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: causes of death in the United States. It's a number

524
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: one health problem in the United States, as you know, diabetes,

525
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: obesity in our community. And so, you know, I'm as

526
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: a Christian, I guess I'm wondering you do you do

527
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: you have those moments where you're like, wow, Okay, there

528
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: is a there is this great story here, but what

529
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: am I really selling to my people, to our people?

530
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: If you look at the life of a Latino. I

531
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 3: think that we all have to be very, very careful

532
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: because one of my favorite food two of my favorite

533
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 3: food is carnita's and menudos, you know, And as I

534
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: got older, I realized I just can't have that anymore,

535
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 3: you know, I mean just just a little, you know,

536
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: tiny little bowl, a little you know one talk of

537
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: the carnitas and things like that. So I learned, you know,

538
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: and moderation, and I think that's what we had to

539
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: you know, we need to do is to educate anyone

540
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: who has snacks and moderation and take care of yourself.

541
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 3: You know, of course that's my that's a big concern

542
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: for me. Be careful how many you eat, you know,

543
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 3: don't go around, you know, don't let it be you know, breakfast, lunch,

544
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: and dinner. Absolutely not. And I think we know more

545
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: now than we did thirty years ago. You know, every

546
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: everything was about a snack, and everything you went into

547
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: the store was a snack. I wish that they were completely,

548
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: you know, one hundred percent healthy. So you don't mean

549
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: you don't feel some guilt, I mean no, not at all. No,

550
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: so many guilt. I mean guilt for what, well, for

551
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: helping to.

552
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: Create something that is like, you know, got some weird

553
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: colored powdered stuff that stays on your fingers. I mean it,

554
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, it can't necessarily be good for you, you know,

555
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's not like eating unte well.

556
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: I think that would be a question for every person

557
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: that ever invented it in there, I mean her, she's

558
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: Eminem's cupcakes, every Latino chef that you know, the guy

559
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 3: that created tacos, the guy that created burritos. You know,

560
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: I think we just have to educate ourselves. I mean,

561
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: my mom, she was still cooking with Monteca until the

562
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: day she passed away. That wasn't going to change. You know,

563
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 3: she was she was making but you know, when you

564
00:33:59,520 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: have mon.

565
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: Everything tastes great.

566
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 3: Oh Jesus. Yeah. And then you know as a child,

567
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 3: you know, it was the one you know my grandmother,

568
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 3: would you know, she taught me how to drink coffee?

569
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gothic on lichen to go to sleep.

570
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: I think we have, you know, to really you know,

571
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: I get what you're saying, but I think it's going

572
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,479
Speaker 3: to take a huge change on how do we teach

573
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: our culture that you know, some of the food for

574
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 3: us is needs to be in moderation.

575
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: We reached out to Sam Dean, the La Times reporter

576
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: who did the story about the whole hot Cheetos controversy.

577
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: He didn't want to be taped, but he did agree

578
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: to answer our questions In writing. He told us that

579
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: he had regrets about the final version of his story.

580
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: Mostly he said he wished he had quote pushed to

581
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: include the section on Fredo Lay's history of exploitation and

582
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: appropriation unquote, But Sam still stands by his reporting, saying

583
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: the following quote. As journalists, we have an obligation to

584
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: report the facts and share them with the public. Once

585
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: it was clear that mister Montagniels's widely known and repeated

586
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: story was not correct, and that it was going to

587
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: become even more widely known through the upcoming book and movie.

588
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to set the record straight unquote. As for

589
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: Rachel Reyes, she says she's going to continue to support

590
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 1: Richard Montagnie's despite the LA Times piece.

591
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I pre ordered his book and I'm going

592
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 7: to go see the movie. And I was not intending

593
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 7: on doing either of those things before this article was released,

594
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 7: but now it almost feels like I have to.

595
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 3: I have to go support my boy Richard.

596
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: And though he personally doesn't believe that Richard Montagnies is

597
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 1: the true inventor of the hot cheeto, Gusta from in

598
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: the E Times doesn't contest Richard's rag to Rich's story.

599
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 6: And this is what really strikes me. The rags of

600
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 6: Riches story is still there. Even Sam's story never cast

601
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 6: doubt on Richard's story. The fact that he was a janitor,

602
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 6: he was a guy who didn't finish high school. He

603
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 6: did turn himself into this big wig at frieda Lay PepsiCo,

604
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 6: you know, the whole corporation that he's this motivational speaker.

605
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 6: No one denies him that.

606
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 3: I still think it's a great story.

607
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 6: It totally is, and it's a story that people should

608
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 6: celebrate as like, Hey, here's a guy who came from

609
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 6: next to nothing.

610
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 3: I think we need stories like that.

611
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: We reached out to Friedo Lay several times, but they

612
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: did not give us any comment for this piece. For

613
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: his part, Richard Montagne says that he just wants to

614
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: be at peace. So are you in the process of

615
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: forgiving Fredo Lay? You say you want to be at peace,

616
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: and so I'm just trying to understand, like, are you

617
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: and are you like forgive move on or I'm waiting

618
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: for you to call me.

619
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: I forgive anyone who said anything bad, whether you like

620
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 3: me or not. I'm on record. I forgive you. I

621
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: hope the best for you. I hope God blesses you

622
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: with such great success.

623
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for spending some time with me.

624
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it.

625
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: Richard, Oh, thank you. It was a pleasure to be

626
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: with you.

627
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Emil se Giros and edited

628
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: by Andrea Lopez Crusado. The Latino USA team also includes

629
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: Marta Martinez Mike Sargent, Daisy Contreres, Victoria Estrada Rinaldo, Leanos Junior,

630
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: Patricia Sulbran, and Elizabeth Lowental Torres. Our editorial director is

631
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: Fernandes Santos. Our director of Engineering is Stephanie Lobau. Our

632
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: senior engineer is Julia caruz So. Our associate engineers are

633
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: Gabriel Lebas and JJ Krubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna.

634
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed by Sea Rubinos. I'm your

635
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: host and executive producer Marienno Josa. Join us again on

636
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: our next episode. In the meantime, remember not te vayas

637
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: e pastora.

638
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 4: Proxima jo Latino USA is made possible in part by

639
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 4: California Endowment, building a strong state by improving the health

640
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 4: of all Californians, The Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on

641
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 4: the front lines of social change worldwide, and the Annie E.

642
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 4: Casey Foundation creates a brighter future for the nation's children

643
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 4: by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities.

644
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: Is that a feta complete? Thanks everybody,