1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Look man, oh I see you. Why oh? And look 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: over there? How is that culture? Yes, goodness, I can 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: tell you will have emotions. You've she's got you feeling 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: about She's got me feeling emotions. In fact, I have 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: to just do this right now because it's such a 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: happy occasion. Oh my god, Oh my god, it got 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: all But that's actually okay, because this is such a 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: I popped a little bottle of champagne everyone at home, 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: and it just got all over me because we are 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: celebrating today New York Times bestseller, the New York Times 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: bestseller that is now my favorite book is. It's more 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: than just a book to me. It's a piece of 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: living history. It's a historical document the meaning of Mariah Carry. 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: And today we're going to do the meeting of Mariah 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: Carry Book Club. I can't wait for this. I was 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: looking forward to this all week. The only person I 17 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: would finish a book for on a week like this, 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: For two people, You and Maria go back like babies 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: are passive fire fires. We have to talk about what 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: a genius. First of all, can we just say a 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: genius for wanting to include ODB in that track and 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: directing the music video. This whole thing warrants its own conversation, 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: So I think, what, let's let's get let's wait, let's wait. 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you because I kind of 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: threw this out there last week, um, and I wasn't 26 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: sure if you'd want to do it, because I know 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: that you don't have the most time because you guys 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: are hashtag in season at SNL, and I know that 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: you're not historically as big of Mariah fan or a 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: lamb as I am. But I'm not and I wasn't 31 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: in the Lamily. I feel like I have a profound 32 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: understanding and appreciation and admiration for Mariah Carey. Now, I mean, 33 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: it's truly I feel a little bit transformed. Should we 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: just get into it? What? What? What do you think? 35 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: I would love to hear from you, what your broad 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: impressions were. I want to hear everything that you experienced 37 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: while reading the book. I want to know what you felt. 38 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm. We have not spoken about it at all. 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: I only saw your twit twit, your tweet earlier today 40 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: saying that you loved it, so so please tell me everything. Well, 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: I like you. I saw your twit and you had 42 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: said that you were an actual real tears finishing the book, 43 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh god, I bet she just 44 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: really dazzles you with the ending, and boy did she 45 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: got really fucking emotional because I, um just this was 46 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: the week that I needed to hear all of that. 47 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna say something crazy and truly I 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: will allow people to like come from my head to 49 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: when I say this. Especially the beginning, it read like 50 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: a modern day Tony Morrison book. It read like something 51 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: so like to borrow phrase from Asia Ohara, like eht 52 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: in sorrow? Do you know what I'm saying her name was? 53 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: And now it's flashing flashing lights. Really, you see Michael 54 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: Angela Davis's name on the cover and you're you're like, Okay, 55 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: she's being area up front about having a ghostwriter. Good 56 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: for her. But like from the beginning you read that, 57 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: you read this book and you're like, Okay, there's so 58 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: much raw detail here, in specific detail here that it 59 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: could only have come from her. And she's an artist 60 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: and she's a writer. She's she she's good with words. 61 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: It's like, I'm willing to say that she probably wrote 62 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: a majority of this book and probably like and she's 63 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: friends with miss Davis, and it's just like, okay, like 64 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: why don't you get this credit? But like so much 65 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: of it can only could only have come from her, 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: That's my thought. Yeah, I think it's always interesting whenever 67 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: people want to have the conversation about how much of 68 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: it was quote unquote actually written by the person at 69 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: the center, because for me, it's like there's no doubt 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: in my mind, being the life long and I mean 71 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: life long fan that I am of Mariah, that this 72 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: sounds like her is completely in her voice. And the 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: thing about her is the fans know that she really 74 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: does right all of her music, and so are the vast, 75 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: vast majority of music and lyrically, this sounds like her, 76 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like in terms of the 77 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: prose of it all. You know, maybe it wasn't all 78 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: totally authentically coming from only her, but this is her voice, 79 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like this and this this 80 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: book impressed me so much because it got across um. 81 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: It was such a beautiful writing, but yet it also 82 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: did sound like her the whole way through. For me, 83 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: reading this was very it actually was very emotional for me, 84 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: of course, of course, and I was thinking of you 85 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: the whole time, and before you keep going, I'm sorry, 86 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: I just I think it's worth pointing out that you 87 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: and I are as old as her career and not 88 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: as old. But it's like she's it's it's it's MC thirty, 89 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: Like we're thirty years old. It's like like Vision of 90 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: Love came out when we were the year we were born. 91 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: Like I feel like that has some I don't know, 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: like coincidental meaning, but it's like that's that's important. I think. Yeah. 93 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: To me, like weirdly, numerically, Mariah always seems to line 94 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: up with me, like and I'll say I said it 95 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: on the podcast last week, but I will say definitively, 96 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: I have so gone back and forth on this question 97 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: over the years doing this podcast and when we pose 98 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: this question to other guests, it's always in the back 99 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: of my mind. But for me, the culture that made 100 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: me say culture was for me is and was Maria 101 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: And so this was really like extremely up and down 102 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: experience for me to read this because she really has, 103 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: like her music really has been there for me, like 104 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: through my entire life. And I mean I could get 105 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: into specifics as we as we go through it, but 106 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, hearing that she struggled as much as she did, 107 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: and she came from the place that she came from, 108 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: and it was you know, her passion and talent and 109 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: love for what she was doing that was really the 110 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: only thing that saved her and got her to where 111 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: she is, which is one of the greatest of all time. Um. 112 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: It was just extremely inspiring. And while I was so 113 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: devastated for her in the in the dark parts of 114 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: this book, I obviously recommended to everyone because this is 115 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: a book not only about like triumph over struggle, it's 116 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: it's so reveals and explores so many themes in her 117 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: life that are so specific to her and yet can 118 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: feel so universal, while also being a total celebration of 119 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: her music end of music in general. That any music 120 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: fan would love this book, and anyone with an understanding, 121 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: which is with an even a vague understanding of who 122 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: Maria carry is I think would be enriched in reading 123 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: it because it's like truly like a human triumph. I 124 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: can't say enough about what this book means to me 125 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: and what she means to me, and what her all 126 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: of her music means to me and always has. I 127 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: love that, And I will say as someone who is 128 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: only really getting the media packaged version of her narrative 129 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: from the sidelines, just being like, okay, she got married 130 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: to that sony guy. My sort of downloading of Maria 131 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: Carrey has only been secondhand, and that I did not 132 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: put in the work myself to be like, okay, what 133 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: is what is she about? Like what is informing this behavior? 134 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: Because some of the behavior is like fun and silly 135 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: and juicy and like, oh my god, isn't she being 136 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: such a diva? But like all of it, and I 137 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: mean all of it makes sense to me now, all 138 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: of it down to down to the I don't know 139 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: her of it all like that fully tracks in my 140 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: in my sort of thinking now, and it's like, oh, yes, 141 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: of course this is how you would sort of approach this. 142 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: And of course you were traumatized by the way that 143 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: your career was sabotaged at the hands of your ex husband, 144 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: who then went behind your back and then like gave 145 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: swiped you twice in order to give this other artist, 146 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: like you know, like a moment, a thing whatever. And 147 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like, Okay, this all makes sense to me now, 148 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: and even if, like even if anyone out there I 149 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: haven't really read this. I feel like it is pretty 150 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: universally being acclaimed, this book. But even for someone who's 151 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: just like, well, it's probably a really strategic sort of 152 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: pr thing and blah blah blah. But I'm like, no, 153 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: like this is something. This is like a fully conto 154 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: word illustration of her life. I think, Oh, it's passionately 155 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: written and written with care and detail and research into 156 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: her own family history. I mean, this is this is 157 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: a labor of love. You can tell. And I will 158 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: say she has I listened to the audio book, so 159 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: did you. She hasn't yet again changed the game in 160 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: a in a new medium, because the audio books are 161 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: not going to be the same now after this because 162 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: a jester again, And I also say Jess because she's 163 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: so funny and I love when she cracks herself up, 164 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: and there's just moments in the book where she starts singing. 165 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: There's a particular refrain that is like really important to Lambs, 166 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: which is the opening of closed my eyes, which is 167 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: and like when when that jumped out in that moment 168 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: where she's in the bath, not out when that jumped out, 169 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: and then when where she's in the bath after her concert, 170 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: the first concert she had where she she was taping 171 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,479 Speaker 1: a special and she realized she had a lot of fans. 172 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: Shemus right, And she gets home and gets in the 173 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: bath for her relaxing moment, and that just sort of 174 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: comes to her the way the tears sprung to my 175 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: eyes because because I associate that obviously with the Butterfly album, 176 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: and I have said it many times on this podcast 177 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: that the Butterfly album is my favorite album of all 178 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: time because I associated with the point in my childhood 179 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: where it was the first time I ever truly really 180 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: connected to lyrics. Because I'll just I'll just say this 181 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: flat out right now. So when I was seven eight 182 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: years old is when the music of Butterfly started coming out. 183 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: That was when Honey came out as a single that 184 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: and then it was followed by My All and the 185 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 1: whole Butterfly album that I just sat and drenched myself in. 186 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: It was the first time I felt like an artist 187 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: that I was listening to purposely was like really meaning 188 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: what they were saying, and lyrically and musically they were 189 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: alive in what they were doing. And then I went 190 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: back and listened to everything she had ever done. My 191 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: dad was actually a fan of hers, and we had 192 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: the music box CD just in the house, so um, 193 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: I ended up listening to that and from there on, like, 194 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: I think it was around that time that I started 195 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: realizing that I was different. I didn't I don't think 196 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: I had the words for day. I don't think I 197 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: had the words for queer or whatever. But the themes 198 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: that she explores throughout Butterfly of liberating yourself and um, 199 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, not for nothing, but discovering your sexuality, because 200 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: that was very much what was happening on that album. 201 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: She talks a lot about yes exactly once and during 202 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: the divorce, and as she exited the divorce, that was 203 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: when there was a real commitment to hip hop in 204 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: her music and a real sort of embracing of real 205 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: sensuality in her lyrics. Whereas she discusses a lot how 206 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: her early pop songs were like dream Lover and fantasy 207 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: adult contemporary, and I'm talking lyrically the object of her 208 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: songs being fake people, whereas people that she wasn't writing 209 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: towards she was, they were just abstractions. Yeah, yes, and 210 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: so deep in that music that I just felt it 211 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: in my bones, Like I remember, I felt the song 212 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: of the Roof in my bones, I was I had 213 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: no concept of what it felt like to be stifled 214 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: and then be able to like have a sexual moment 215 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: with someone or a romantic moment with someone on a 216 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: roof falls but with DJ and I just want to say, like, y'all, 217 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: this is actually the other night Patrick and Joel were 218 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: over at the house and I made them listen to 219 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: the Roof because it's beautiful, beautiful, such a genius song, 220 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: you guys, And like, I made a playlist, and I 221 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: actually made a beginner's playlist of Mariah for those who 222 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: aren't really lambs who want to entry point, and I 223 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: made a more intermediate playlist for those that kind of 224 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: want to delve into her more deep cut stuff. And 225 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: the Roof is the first track on my other on 226 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: my second playlist. But this is down to even the 227 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: rain hitting her skin and like the physicalization of that 228 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: when you really match that up with what she's going through, 229 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: which is a deep discovery of her own sexuality and sensuality, 230 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: which as we know, is such a huge part of 231 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey. That was such a moment and I will 232 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: never forget discovering that with the door closed when I 233 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: was eight years old, just like you know whatever, but um, 234 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: it means something so much to me, Like the song 235 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: my All means so much to me, The song Butterfly 236 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: I means so much to me. Like so to have 237 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: her delve into the creation of that album in such 238 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: rich detail was a dream for me, Like it was. 239 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: It was euphoric for me, like to have her, to 240 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: have her explain just how these lyrics came to her 241 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: and those feelings and those emotions, and she so vividly 242 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: portrayed that night with dark Jeter. She devotes the whole 243 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: chapter in the book to that night. Yes, and so 244 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: and then and then that was sort of the source 245 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: material of the song. And this this, I mean, I 246 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: love hearing you talk about this and hearing you talk 247 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: about the door being closed. Are you saying that you 248 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: touched yourself to that song? No, that was a couple 249 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: of years before I started jacking off. In fact, the 250 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: first time I ever jacked off. Do you want to 251 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: know what song was playing? Was it Honey, a song 252 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: about Come? No, it was another song that had come 253 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: in it. It was come, Come Come. It was Butterfly 254 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: by crazy Town, crazy Town, and which that was a 255 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: hot music video that that that music video was hot. Yeah, 256 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: but I was like, that's when I actually discovered myself, 257 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: like a couple of years later, and I didn't even 258 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: know I was like gay yet. It was just like whatever. 259 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: But what I guess when I'm saying about them the 260 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: Butterfly album, it was the first time I ever like 261 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: let myself seep into something that felt like a little 262 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: bit more adult than I was used to. And I 263 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: felt like there is like a weird thing where I 264 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: associate her self discovery and that album with my own 265 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: beginning of self identification as being different and like, you know, 266 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: not for nothing, but at the same time, like this 267 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: is probably something I haven't really talked about on the 268 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: podcast to really, I don't ever talk about too much. 269 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: But when I was very young, like I don't know 270 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: how it was for you moving around so much and 271 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: you know, not speaking the language and you know, obviously 272 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: visually appearing to being a different race than the other kids, 273 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: Like I was, became so aware of my like an 274 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: abstract sense. I was aware of my queerness, just knew 275 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: I was different, and I developed like a real social 276 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: anxiety like I did. It was very hard for me 277 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: to make new friends, like I was not good at 278 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: making new friends, and her music was such a comfort 279 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: to me at that time. Like I remember like I 280 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: was having like a panic what I can now realize 281 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: was panic attacks, like when the bus would around the 282 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: corner to pick me up, Like a couple of times 283 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I threw up at my bus stop because I was 284 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: so afraid of not being able to sit with someone. 285 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: Or like a couple of times when I the buses 286 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: like raised and I would sort of I thought it 287 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: would be cool to like get up on the bus 288 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: bass and would fall and like just like really stupid ship. 289 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: But like you were just choreographing. You just had such 290 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: anxiety around I had such anxiety around everything, around every 291 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: social interaction. And so her music at that time was 292 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: like such a big part of my life that like 293 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: I associated with comfort in that way. And I'll always 294 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: feel like safe and warm when I'm listening to that album, 295 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: and even like the Honey Imagery, like the warmth of 296 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: that song and like the way it feels like I'll 297 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: just and there's so much about you know, being a 298 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: kid that doesn't fit in And because this is really 299 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: when she starts to tackle her own um childhood in 300 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: a way like maybe I grew up a little too soon, 301 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: as the lyric and the um and close my eyes 302 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: and she dripped herself as a wayward child and stuff 303 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: like that, like obviously I can't compare what I was 304 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: going through in my childhood to the horrors that she experienced, 305 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: which now you know why she identified with the scripts 306 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: like preshious. But it's I just it's a is going 307 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: to be so important to me always. I mean that 308 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: album was her sort of opening the little little bit 309 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: I know. It's like she makes the whole point of 310 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: not just abandoning numerals, not really tracking her age. She 311 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: doesn't mention her her age once she like like, well 312 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: she she mentioned she mentioned her age, and like these 313 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: important developmental moments, but she's not like I'm fifty now 314 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: or you know, like she she she doesn't speak in 315 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: those terms. But it's like from the moment she you know, 316 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: moved like in Earnest was working in music, I was 317 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: trying to make it to that's connected the show where 318 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: she's like, oh my god, I'm famous what and then 319 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: that's like a benchmark, but it was still but then 320 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: even even from that point to her divorcing from Tommy Matola. 321 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: It's like there is this there. She was sort of 322 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: being held in some like panopticon, or she was being 323 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: held captive in some way up through her family or 324 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: through her husband, or through her labels, UM, her label 325 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: I should say, through Sony specifically UM and then virgin. 326 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: But it's like, honey, you could see, you could tell 327 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: is like the sort of first crack in the like 328 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: emancipation that would come later, you know, right, you know 329 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: even in the music video, like she talks she discussion escapes. Yeah, 330 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: she's um doing this James Bond sort of thing. She's 331 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: h and M and um. So she is, uh, she 332 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: escapes from this mansion that she's being held in and 333 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: sheds the little black dress that she always had to wear. 334 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: And you know she sort of in that moment like 335 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: literally sheds that skin in the pool when she jumps 336 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: into it and becomes Mariah Carey like that she would 337 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: be forever, you know what I mean. And also at 338 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: that time, it was so interesting because another thing I've 339 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: been doing is I've been watching a lot of media 340 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: that she has done throughout the years, and I remember 341 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: there was two things I heard about Mariah Carry in 342 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: the very beginning when because I was like a big 343 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Selein Beyond fan, like it was just because the Titanic 344 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: thing was she was everywhere as you know, especially from 345 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: where from like your perspective, like the French, French Canadian 346 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: ness of it all. Um. But she was huge obviously, 347 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: and I was like, I've always been like a protective 348 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: stam like even back then, like my mom was like 349 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: of Selena of anybody like like but yes, but my 350 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: mother said to me at the time, she was like, 351 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, if you like Selean Beyond so much, you 352 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: might like Mariah Carry. Mariah Carry is one of my favorites. 353 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: And I was like, who is that? And she was like, well, 354 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: she's an amazing singer. And I remember my mother said 355 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: to me at the time she does she does dress 356 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: a little, you know, but but but she that was 357 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: like that was like you know what I mean, Like 358 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: that was like the narrative around her was like all 359 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: of a sudden, she was dressing like quote unquote like 360 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: slutty um. And she was she she was like stily 361 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: clad all the time. Yeah, But I think it was 362 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: just because, as she details in the book, like through 363 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: the first like six seven years of her career, she 364 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: was maybe allowed to show a little bit of cleavage 365 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: in a little bit of like naval and that was it. 366 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: And this is someone who is deeply in her bones 367 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: a sexual, sensual person and was never allowed to be 368 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: that to the point where it was physically manifesting in herself. 369 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: How uncomfortable she was all the time. I mean that 370 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: passage where she's with her acting coach, that was crazy. 371 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: But I remember those were the things I had heard 372 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: about her were like, you know, she is uh, a 373 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: little bit you know, on the edgy side in terms 374 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: of how she dresses, and she's got an amazing voice. 375 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: And then I got into her and I just connected 376 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: with her. But this is but your mom was saying 377 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: this before. That was the reputation before Butterfly. Even this 378 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: was when Honey, when Honey had come out, and then 379 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: like a Butterfly was happening, That's when that's when I 380 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: first like became conscious of who she really was. And um, 381 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: then it was like all broke open from me and 382 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: there was no one who stood who stood anywhere near 383 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: her in terms of my own devotion at that's shore. 384 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: And by the time Rainbow came in, it was like, 385 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: Oh wow, like she's fully leaning into this like sex 386 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: pot Like there's just a oh God. There's a song 387 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: that still holds up um in like any sort of 388 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: makeout or sex playlist um off of Rainbow that I 389 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: that I still use, which is Bliss, which is like 390 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: six minutes long, and it's just her going, yeah, that's 391 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: all the song is, and it's so good and it's 392 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: still it's just timeless. It's timeless. She this is the thing, 393 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: and she always talks she talks about Marrilyn Monroe being 394 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: this inspiration for her. But the reason why, I think 395 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: and what sort of drives her and motivates her subconsciously 396 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: in her art is she wants to create things that 397 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: are timeless, timeless. Yes, she's driven by that in every sense. 398 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: And like, I feel like I think this book itself 399 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: is timeless. I think I think it's sort of reshaping 400 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: the celebrity memoir in a certain way. I mean, I 401 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: mean it certainly raises a bar. It raises the bar 402 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: for that for her ilk do you know what I'm saying. 403 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: It's definitely it's like you know, if if let's say 404 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: Selene were to write a book like it would have 405 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: to be so it would have to get so fucking 406 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: real about the fact that Renee and Julielle came onto 407 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 1: her when she was fourteen years old. You know what 408 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like, yeah, and I guess that's the 409 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: thing too, is it's like, I question whether or not 410 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: Selene would or could get that right. And for me, 411 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: that's that's what connects me to Mariah Carey is there's 412 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: a deep honesty to her that has really always been 413 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: there if you look at her lyrics, and because she 414 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: has been telling a story for years, and she's even 415 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: said a lot of this stuff before, but she's able 416 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: to spell it out in such explicit detail here that 417 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: you're right, does raise the bar for stuff like this 418 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: because it's so beautifully bloored. But you know, and you've 419 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: you've you've talked about this like sort of like whatever 420 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: off off the air, off off the record, off the pod. 421 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: But you're just like, oh no, she's like she's changed 422 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: in the last two years since um, and she's been 423 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: writing this book for two or three years. UM. But 424 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: because I was going to bring up the fact that 425 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: four or five years ago, the Mariah Carey of the 426 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: mid Offs or no know, the mid teens, whatever you 427 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: wanna call them, was still pretty kg about stuff in general. 428 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: Was was very like reactionary to things that would happen 429 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: to her in the media, was very not in control 430 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: of the narrative, still sort of at the mercy of 431 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: like the publicist industrial complex, like the publicity industrial comm 432 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it. Something has happened maybe since 433 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: she like came out with that whole like I'm bipolar thing, 434 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: not to not to reduce it, but like she's since 435 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: she came out as bipolar I'm a few years ago. 436 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,239 Speaker 1: Since that, there's there's been some shift where she is 437 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: being i think, very radically transparent about I think she 438 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: might be genuinely happy. I think that she's very happy 439 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: with Tanaka. I'm not exactly sure what the nature of 440 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: their relationship is now, even after reading the book, she 441 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: just kind of describes him as a beautiful person in 442 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: her life. And I'm so happy that she has that 443 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: and that that was not just some weird thing that 444 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: was a stunt thing for the docuseries slash reality show 445 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: that it became the Mariah's World moment when she was 446 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: That's why I'm talking about She's being badly managed by 447 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: by ms Stella. So she's she's she's the definition of 448 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: and I don't think so, honey, a villain in her life. 449 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: And I'm so happy that she's gone, but I think 450 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: that that might have something to do with it. Also, 451 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is, you know, Mariah is 452 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: very honest in this book. She's not perfect, and how 453 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: could you be. She's been through so fucking much. And 454 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: she's also and she discussed is this a lot in 455 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: the book, a real victim of that paparazzi culture, and 456 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: she really and and the fact that she was able 457 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: to survive that glitter moment when the entire world did 458 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: did want to see her tear torn down because she 459 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: was there was no one bigger and how juicy is 460 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: it for someone to fail so spectacularly? And that was 461 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: at that time when there was no awareness about like 462 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 1: what bullying was in that kind of context. It was 463 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: just like, ha, ha, look at her, looks stupid. Now 464 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: is our chance, um that we're all guilty of participating in? 465 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: But I think that's someone that's been through something like 466 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: that doesn't just automatically know how to respond in this way. 467 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: And what I really liked. The passage in this book 468 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: that I really liked was when she discusses seeing princess 469 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: die at an event. I was gonna bring that up. 470 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: And they have that moment of looking each other in 471 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: the eyes and they really saw each other, They kind 472 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: of saw they were both victims of this thing that 473 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: was paparazzi and me ea and this this narrative of um, 474 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: the bigger they are, the harder they must fall. UM. 475 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: And I think there was a real recognition there, and 476 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: she says, you know, she wishes that Princess Diana had 477 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: lived to get an Instagram or a Twitter, or to 478 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: be able to have her own voice and to watch 479 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: what I thought was a really beautiful way of saying it, 480 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: the people become the press, you know what I mean, 481 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: Like she maybe would have stood more of a chance 482 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: if she would have seen that there was an end date. 483 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: There was an expiration on that culture that even Mariah 484 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: says killed her and and would have killed Mariah had 485 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: she not, um, you know, had had gotten lucky to 486 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: be honest. Sure, I mean I did get a chill 487 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: when I um when I read that part where she 488 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: was like social media for you know, for all its 489 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: false or whatever has at least rendered tabloids completely meaningless. 490 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: There's no power in them anymore. And and of course, 491 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: like we've always known them to be ridiculous and terrible, 492 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: but it's like, oh no, they but there is no 493 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: like when are you ever going to pick up um 494 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: sweekly anymore? Exactly? That's this done. It's like who fucking cares? 495 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: And they're all toxic, horrible, septic tank fucking rags anyway. 496 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: But um, but I mean I did I understand what 497 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: she's saying about the Diana the Diana thing, um, and 498 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: I do believe her when she felt a moment of 499 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: connection and it's like, what a profound moment, and like absolutely, 500 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: like please say that you have something in common saying 501 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: it because you're one of the only people who like 502 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: at that time could maybe make that claim. But the 503 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: way the way the way she worded it, which was 504 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: I wish Princess Diana had lived long enough to get funny. Yeah, 505 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of funny, like to say 506 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: to have an Instagram or Instagram. I think I think 507 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: that she probably read that back and was like, I'm 508 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: gonna run a risk of people saying me for the sentence. 509 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: But but I genuinely no, I genuinely believe that it's 510 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: it's a funny line. But I do think she believes 511 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: it because I think that ultimately, like she just wishes 512 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: that someone like that could have had a voice of 513 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: her own, of course, but let's just kind of I 514 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: don't know, for context, I guess if it if it 515 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: matters like that's still happening with Megan Markle, still happening 516 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: in some way where she's being fucking destroyed by the 517 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: British tablet media. Yeah, well they're so vicious. I mean, 518 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: they're terrible. If if you think that they're bad in 519 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: America or have been bad in America, they are out 520 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: for blood in the UK. I mean it is it 521 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: is relentless, and they are not happy until someone like 522 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: really crashes and burns. And it's really really fucking dark, 523 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: and it's also incredibly racist. So um, that is also 524 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: at the heart of so many of the attacks that 525 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: she has faced over the years. Mariah Carey and I 526 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: also thought, I'm so curious to hear what you thought of, 527 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, just how huge apart her biracial nous played 528 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: in everything, Like just hearing about how she didn't feel 529 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,239 Speaker 1: like she belonged with literally anyone throughout her childhood. I 530 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: believe it. I believe it, and I honestly in the 531 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: sense strange maybe, but looking at the photos that are 532 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: in the end, that are in the book if you 533 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: buy the hard copy, I look at this photos and 534 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's a sad kid. Do you know what 535 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Yes, that's a sad fucking kid. And I 536 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: know that sounds like scared kid. It's a scared kid. 537 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: And I believe I. I believe it when and even 538 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: when she was a teenager, because because you think, if 539 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: you if you want to go backwards and try to 540 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: entrapolate and think of Mariah Carry as she was before 541 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: she was famous, and you you you're also you're picturing 542 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: maybe some model of like the glamorous version of Maria 543 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: Carry that we all know now, because if you even 544 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: see these photos of her as a teen and she's 545 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 1: still like she still seems like a little in her 546 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: shell and a little sheltered and just like and she 547 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: went to beauty school and then she kind of like 548 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: had fun with her look, but it's still like she 549 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: was she was holding these terrible heavy things in her 550 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: with coming from a broken family, just being by Rachiel, 551 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: having these siblings who were, um, you know, sort of 552 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: broken in their ways. It was just really heavy, just 553 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: really heavy. And and of course, and and the moment 554 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: that a lot of people have talked about, especially interviews 555 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: with her over this um book releases, UM, you know 556 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: that moment when she goes to sleepover in the Hampton's 557 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: and these girls lock her in the room and just 558 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: chant the end word at her. She basically thought she 559 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: was going to hang out with friends. She thought she 560 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: maybe finally was going to fit in with this group 561 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: of white girls that she went to school with. And Um, 562 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: they didn't. They weren't explicitly privy to the fact that 563 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: she her father was black, because Maria, I wi should 564 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: just say she has a black father, she hasn't Irish mother, um, 565 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: which presents a lot of very interesting and sort of 566 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: tragic consequences later, um, when Mariah's mother weaponizes her privilege 567 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: against her family and many many very crazy ways. UM. 568 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: But I think there was something goes on where, um, 569 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: the girls that she's hanging out with find out that 570 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: she's part black, and they essentially bum rush her, like 571 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: by hounding her like a corner and her in a 572 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: closet and screaming like the N word, and her traumatizing 573 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: her for years, and she says she blocked it out 574 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: until she was writing the book. Yeah, yeah, and this 575 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: is I was watching the beginnings of her UM the 576 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: Oprah Conversation on Apple TV plus Fabulous Interview. I haven't 577 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: finished it, but Oprah, Star of Deer, We Love Dear, 578 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: Star of Dear Oprah, Oprah and UM Like, I think 579 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: like one of the first things they talk about is 580 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: how Mariah Well Oprah is like, you know, you talk, 581 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: you kind of like air out a lot of the 582 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: conflicts you've had in your life. And then Maria goes, well, 583 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm just writing two things where the 584 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: where someone else drew first blood. And I'm like, yes, 585 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: that is actually completely correct. And I don't think it's 586 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like, oh, she's framing 587 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: it like she's being revision revisionist in whatever way to 588 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: make it seem like she's been victimized her whole life now. 589 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: But it's this thing where her family was exploiting her, 590 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: the industry was exploiting her, I mean, the press, whatever. 591 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: But it's like but then but down to like these 592 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: like core things where she was she was experiencing racism, poverty, 593 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, divorce in all of these like different dynamics. 594 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, that's just that that that just has 595 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: to be considered anytime you think about Maria carry I 596 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,719 Speaker 1: think that, Yeah. And you know another thing that's in 597 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: the book and couldn't possibly have been planned for this moment, 598 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: but couldn't feel more oppression in this moment is her 599 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: families unfortunately repeated experiences is where police would come to 600 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: their host house because her black father would get into 601 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 1: physical altercations with her darker skin but still bi racial brother. 602 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: And she says in the book that the calling of 603 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: the police, which often was her mother um doing that 604 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: would almost always heighten the violence and almost always aggravate 605 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: the situation because another reason reason I sort of I 606 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: feel like I understand her on a deeper level too, 607 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: is she is from Long Island. And I can tell 608 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: you Long Island is extremely segregated. And I can't express 609 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: this enough, Like people that live there don't really understand 610 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: that that's what it is because they think the word 611 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: segregation and they think people people. The people that live 612 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: there don't understand what you're saying. I don't think they do. 613 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people that live there 614 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: and haven't left, I don't think they would use the 615 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: words segregated to explain how Long Island is made up. 616 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: I really don't. But that's exactly what it is. Is. 617 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean, like, wealthier people live in some areas and 618 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: they're white, and like, then there are the quote unquote 619 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: bad areas of of Long Island, and this is the 620 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: way it's said to you as a white kid, and 621 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: those are the oftentimes it's the inner part of the island. 622 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: It's the like parts that are not by the water, 623 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: and those are the places where it's mostly black people 624 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: or people of color. And I don't think that people 625 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: really understand that live there, just how much there of 626 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: racial division that there is. And so in reading this, 627 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself, like Jesus, like what that 628 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: must have been like to live in a predominantly, extremely 629 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: predominantly white place and be the one like mixed race family. 630 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: It's just and then the police get called and you've 631 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: got violent people in the house, and the one police officer, 632 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: she says, said to the other one, it'll be a 633 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: miracle if this kid survives, and it kind of is 634 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: it'll be a miracle if this kid makes it. I 635 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: think I remember thinking like, oh, like, that's such an 636 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: interesting like way of that's such a whatever like linguistic 637 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if you wanna call it that thing 638 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, she makes that, she survives, she 639 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 1: makes it, she like succeeds as an artist. I think 640 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: that this this actually this was the moment where her 641 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: brother pushes her mother as hard mother and the wall 642 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: and her mother just laid there in a slump and 643 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: there had been a loud crack, and he leaves the house, 644 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: and she gets on the phone and calls a family friend, 645 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: and she describes it as being in a sort of 646 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: paralysis and she just mustered enough emotional energy to call 647 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: the police. And this is just like this is where 648 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: I say, like, you know, of course she was gravitated 649 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: to a script like Precious and was so good in 650 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: a film like that, because I don't think anyone really 651 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: understood the specifics of what her life was. No, like 652 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: I the witnessing of extreme violence like that in your 653 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: own family and your own home, the lack of a 654 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: safe space, anywhere has to damage you on a level 655 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: that is unimaginable. Um. Yeah, I mean I grew up 656 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: with a lot of fights amongst my parents and that 657 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: they got violent, physical, and I mean that's that still stays. 658 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: And it was nothing, it was nothing quite like what 659 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: she experienced. Um, but it's still something that like it 660 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: just it just like exceeds your own body and physical 661 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: space in the way that like the scar tissue is 662 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: just there. I cannot imagine. It's true, it etches into you, 663 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: and for that to be repeated has to be like 664 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I I have the passage pulled up. Um. 665 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: One of the cops looking down at me, but speaking 666 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: to another cop asides and said, if this kid makes it, 667 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: it'll be a miracle. And that night I became less 668 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: of a kid and more of a miracle. Wow. I 669 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: mean mean, yeah, if this kid makes it. I was 670 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: just like, that's so interesting. But well, because the thing is, like, 671 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: you can't talk about this book without talking about where 672 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: she came from. And I was saying, like how on 673 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: Long Islands we were talking about her biracial identity, and 674 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: like how that can have been a comfortable place to 675 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: be like in the early seventies on Long Island. We're 676 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: being a We're being a biracial kid probably was so 677 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: so such an anomaly, rare as fuck. Also, her mother 678 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: being the song on Island for for wanting to be 679 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: with a black man, like all of that, all this 680 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: sort of shame that was hoisted upon probably every member 681 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: of the family. Also, you know, Mariah being the closest 682 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: child of the three to quote unquote passing as they say, 683 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: the resentment that came from her toxic older siblings, and 684 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 1: then you know, the brothers just a piece of fucking ship. 685 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: And he ended up becoming a manipulative, toxic person who 686 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe was in her life for a song, 687 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: as was the sister Allison. That is a whole fucking 688 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: can of worms. That's tough. That's tough because she I mean, 689 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: everyone in this story is sympathetic to some level, even 690 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: even if there as despicable as Pat Allison and Morrigan. 691 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like I'm sympathetic towards Allison. 692 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm sympathetic towards Morrigan. I feel like 693 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm sympathetic towards Maria's mother. I feel like these are 694 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: these are like it's like I said, like there's some 695 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: Morrison s quality, or there's just some tragic race trauma 696 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: in all of this in her family. His I don't. 697 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's not as like sort 698 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: of grandiose maybe in the way that Tony Morrison novels 699 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: are and sort of sweeping and sort of biblical seeming almost. 700 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: But it's like, but she she does have Maria does 701 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: Pepper and scripture throughout the memoir does. Yeah, there's just 702 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: something I don't feel like all of it is just 703 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: so cinematic though, like, oh, it's gonna I I would 704 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: see this becoming a mini series. Oh at some point absolutely, 705 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: or maybe even like a television series to be honest 706 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: with you, like, because there's so much in here, I 707 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: don't think it could be just a movie. But um 708 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: but um, I mean yes, I would agree. I Mean 709 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: the thing is, they were all they were all living 710 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: in that house. They were all having different experiences with 711 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,760 Speaker 1: that pain and that trauma, and they were all living 712 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: identities or they all had identities that were outside the 713 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: norm of the time, and not one of them had 714 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: a safe space or a connection or someone to talk 715 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: to or someone to understand them because there's so much 716 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: difference in the five of them living in that family, 717 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: there was no attempt to understand each other. Really, I 718 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: think that unfortunately obviously, like the what goes unspoken in 719 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: the book, and Mariah is upfront about not being able 720 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: to speak for it, but is whatever happened to Allison 721 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: when she went away with the first guy that she married. 722 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: Um she comes back and is a completely different person, 723 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: and that's when she starts exposing Maria to her friends 724 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: that are drug dealers, exposing Maria to drugs, giving Mariah drugs, 725 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean, she gives her a valium at one point 726 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 1: and she passes out at twelve years old and sinks 727 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: into a couch. She tries to give her cocaine. She 728 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,479 Speaker 1: leaves her with someone that tries to coerce her into 729 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 1: sex work, yes, and she she Maria as a young girl, 730 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: is alone in a car with a much older man 731 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: who kiss who tries to molest her, does molest her, 732 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: and a man sees it. And at that point she 733 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: is like aware of the fact that this was not normal, 734 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, but like true tragedy, like the stuff that 735 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: she's going through in the beginning of this book, and 736 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, only with years of hindsight can you even 737 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: begin to understand and unearthed that stuff. And you know, 738 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm happy for her that she's been able 739 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: to do that, but Jesus Christ, it must have been 740 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: hard to relive and write this. I mean, maybe like 741 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: through this process she's really kind of like solidified her 742 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: core or something. Because I because it's funny that she 743 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: mentions in the book that Caution is her most critically 744 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,959 Speaker 1: acclaimed album, and I kind of am like, oh, yeah, 745 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: that is interesting, and like we like the general consensus 746 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: around Caution was that it was like one of like 747 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: a real one of the best albums, but a solid 748 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey album. And even though it didn't have like 749 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: exactly these these big like moments that these big sort 750 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: of like you know, promotional moments on it, it was 751 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: such a competent body of work just contained little like 752 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: ten songs, ten songs just like her having fun with 753 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: R and B, with hip hop, her collaborating with like 754 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: Blood Orange or Deaf Hines and scrill X and like 755 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: all these artists. Um, there's just there's just a competence. 756 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: There's a serenity to her now and I think you're right, 757 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: like she with what you were saying earlier, and she 758 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: closes the book on her being happy. It's like she 759 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,399 Speaker 1: is at peace now, and I and that like that 760 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: that's what gets me emotional, and that's what me emotional 761 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: when I finish this. But even as someone who like 762 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: I mean, Mariah has been a soundtrack to my life 763 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: in the way that she's been the soundtrack to everyone's 764 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: lives in Western culture. But I'm just like, oh, thank god, 765 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: she's happy, you know. Well, That's That's something that I 766 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: love about her now in the past ten years, is 767 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: she is so funny in her music now, like GTFO 768 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: being the first song on Caution, like in her kind 769 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: of putting that out there is like a weird like 770 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 1: faux first single and being like, yeah, why not, Like 771 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: it's like really a funny song, and she's she's so 772 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: funny in the song Obsessed from Memoirs. So funny she's 773 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: she ever since Emancipation on you can tell like that 774 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: Emancipation also involved like her finally being like I don't 775 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: have to just write like longing songs, sad songs about whatever. 776 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: She is so funny in a music video, right and 777 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: dexterous like she and like obsessed. I love that the 778 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: chorus is so long, like she can't stop going in 779 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: on eminem on that song, like it's she was doing dag. 780 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: She was doing very good Dragon of music videos Eminem. 781 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: She also has a great reaction when the bus hits eminem. 782 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: It's all it's all that that that music, that song 783 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: is all mean girls. Oh it's the best. It's so funny. 784 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: I love that she's just like that's the thing too, 785 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: is like and when you were saying before about like 786 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: stuff we've said on this podcast about like whatever sort 787 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: of uh, speculating about what her actual personal life is, 788 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: like like what's the deal going on with that billionaire 789 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: she was marrying, Like what the funk happened on New 790 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: Year's Eve? ETCETERA part of loving Mariah is having the 791 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: sense of humor that you think she would have. So 792 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: it's like you're not ever really laughing at her, but 793 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: it's laughing with her because that's what sort of you know, 794 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: gets her through stuff like this. And so I never 795 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: feel bad about like, quote unquote having fun at the 796 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: expense of things that happened to her, like because you 797 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: have to be able to laugh and joke about it 798 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: because ultimately, like Glitter was one of the toughest times 799 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: of her life and that was so depressing for fans 800 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: of hers that were hardcore fans of hers to watch happen. 801 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: And now it's like we can truly laugh about it 802 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: now because the lammley has so reclaimed that album. It's 803 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: now on Spotify. It did go to number one on 804 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: the charts, like a couple of years ago when they 805 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: said justice for Glitter, like now we get to hear 806 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: specifically about like the way that went down. It's just 807 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 1: such an easy story to understand, Like something that a 808 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: project that starts with substance, it gets noted to death 809 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,919 Speaker 1: by people who don't care about the project, will only 810 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: care about making money, people who want her to funk up. 811 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: Tommy Motola, I'm talking to you, like screwing up that 812 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: project that maybe could have actually been good and isn't 813 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: necessarily bad. It's not necessarily bad. I I just love 814 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: that she has the full hindsight, closure whatever on Glitter, 815 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: especially when she writes about it in this book where 816 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: she was like and look and the fact now this 817 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: is what I'm obsessed with, the fact that she still 818 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: stands by the songs on the soundtrack. It's it's a 819 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: great album, but she's like the rest of the world 820 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,439 Speaker 1: is not gonna win by like making fun of this 821 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: movie and blah blah blah ha ha isn' it's such 822 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: a train wreck this. I stand by the work. And 823 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,879 Speaker 1: the work for me was acting, which I'm very passionate about, 824 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: and I like meticulously worked on to improve that. And 825 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: I stand by the songwriting, which you know, almost twenty 826 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: years later. What, however, many years later, was finally like 827 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: finally achieved some recognition because of my fans coming together 828 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: and and like and and achieving a common goal. And 829 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 1: I think she makes the case throughout the entire book 830 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,240 Speaker 1: for some like class consciousness socialist ideal where the middle 831 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: manager Fox, the capitalist class Fox, who are like the 832 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: agents that Tommy Mttol's the world the record label exects 833 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: who are like trying to like make money without lifting 834 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: a fucking finger off of her are like trash and 835 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: she's actually out there like being the laborer and do 836 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: and actually like the way we talk about class conscious 837 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: is like an airline pilot who makes like you know, 838 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 1: a year, is more likely to support the unionizing efforts 839 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: of like a working class person who makes forty because 840 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: that airline pilot is also technically in the working class 841 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: because he's he answers to some middle management, to some 842 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: to some capitalist overlord who's just like, you do this, 843 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: but I don't have to work. But you're the one 844 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: who's doing the actual legwork. Mariah is like throughout the 845 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: entire book, focusing on the work, laboring, laboring and finding 846 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: fulfillment out of it, enjoy and also speaking to this 847 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: collectivist thing where amazing things can happen if people just 848 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: come together. The reason why all of them for Christmas, 849 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: all I went for Christmas is you went to number 850 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: one on the Billboard chart is because my fans came 851 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: together and did that. It wasn't some promotional thing, it 852 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 1: wasn't some like choreographed media thing. It was because a 853 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,439 Speaker 1: bunch of people were like, lamb did it again, she 854 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,399 Speaker 1: says again. And that's the thing too, is like um, 855 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 1: when it comes to glitter and everything, like it really 856 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: has stood the test of time because her fans are 857 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: always going to watch a glitter like I'm always gonna 858 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,360 Speaker 1: watch like and the fact of the matter is like 859 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: it sort of disappeared from the public consciousness. I don't 860 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: know why. Obviously it was a huge flop, but I 861 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,240 Speaker 1: love when she says in the book like it wasn't 862 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: that bad, and she's right, And also I thought it 863 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: was so interesting. And here you go that she really 864 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: wanted Terence Howard to be the lead in it, and 865 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: they were like, no, we don't see how that would work, 866 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: which is basically them saying like, we don't want a 867 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: black lead. We don't want you up against up there 868 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,320 Speaker 1: with a black man like to be the romantic interest. 869 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,240 Speaker 1: And then she also says, by the way I envisioned 870 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:58,799 Speaker 1: him in this role before, yes, like she was so 871 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: ahead of and she is, I believe, like so ahead 872 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: of the curve. And it's always always like people being like, 873 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: I don't know what are you talking about? This is 874 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: this is this is a good segue into the O, 875 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: D B of it all. So this is I think 876 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 1: one of one of her best talents. She's obviously an 877 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: incredible singer, she's an amazing composer, she's an amazing lyricist. 878 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 1: Something that is a talent is understanding the pulse of 879 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: pop culture better than anyone else. She said in the 880 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 1: early nineties. By the way, anyone who will listen, the 881 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: way that mainstream music is going, hip hop is going 882 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,439 Speaker 1: to be huge, I'm telling you, she says. She said 883 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: at the time Vatola, he dismissed her. What are you 884 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,280 Speaker 1: talking about? He didn't understand it, so it couldn't possibly 885 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: be true. He liked standards, he liked the ballance that 886 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: she was doing. He understood that type of thing. Then 887 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: she talks about being at that dinner with a bunch 888 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: of their associates, and he asked her, what do you 889 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: think of puff Daddy of Bad Boy Records, of this 890 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: new movement that was p Diddy at the time, he 891 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: was just kind of emerging as the superproducer. And she's 892 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,080 Speaker 1: very honest understanding that. In saying her honest opinion, she's 893 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,359 Speaker 1: sort of defying her husband, who's this extremely powerful man 894 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,919 Speaker 1: who's gonna who runs her career and her life at home. 895 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: And she says, this is definitely the way that mainstream 896 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,240 Speaker 1: music is going, and what he's doing is very exciting 897 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: and we should all be paying attention to it. Tany 898 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,720 Speaker 1: Motola gets up, makes a huge public scene at the restaurant, 899 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,319 Speaker 1: and thanks canceled. Thanksgiving is canceled. I just want to 900 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: say Thanksgiving is canceled, which is so funny and stupid. 901 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: But this is what I'm saying is it's like it 902 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,640 Speaker 1: stayed this way throughout the career and remains to this day. 903 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,320 Speaker 1: She still understands even as a fifty year old woman. 904 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: Sorry to age her because she she's eternally twelve, but 905 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:53,160 Speaker 1: she still is making contemporary music that works. Caution, caution, 906 00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: excuse me. I just by the way, we cut out 907 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: the part where I was choking on wine earlier. Guys, 908 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: Really it was it was a whole moment if I 909 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,479 Speaker 1: won't get into it, but it just came back up 910 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 1: and then it got caught. It went down the wrong pipe, 911 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: you know. Relatable queen. Relatable queen we're talking about. We 912 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,480 Speaker 1: shouldn't cut it out because I'll tell you something. It's 913 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,279 Speaker 1: very well know. I'm being honest about it. And now 914 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: I get to control the narrative. I don't want people 915 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 1: to hear me fucking coughing up this orange wine. Honey. Okay, 916 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,240 Speaker 1: the first part of it can be cut. The second 917 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,880 Speaker 1: part I like, and I like it. I like it. 918 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: But then, um, but what you were saying about the 919 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,560 Speaker 1: O D b of it all. That was one of 920 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: my favorite chapters, one of my favorite chapters. And so 921 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: like such a I love that she like blew up 922 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,360 Speaker 1: Tommy's spot with like once she got the O D 923 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: B verse, she's flipping out. She's so excited, so excited 924 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 1: and like one of the most like V definitive iconic 925 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,719 Speaker 1: like like rap verse featured raps on like that kind 926 00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 1: you know whatever. So and for it to be Mariah 927 00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: carry and O D B that no one would have 928 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: ever thought that until that moment. But she was like 929 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,359 Speaker 1: she was like, I I love Wu Tang, Like, let's 930 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: do it. But but for Tommy Mattold to be like 931 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,320 Speaker 1: I could, What the funk is this? I can do this. 932 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,319 Speaker 1: It's like you're a fucking idiot and you can, like 933 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: you can swim in your stupid sea of Like no, no, 934 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 1: they can't take that away from me, not to like 935 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: shoot on standards, but it's like who cares? Who cares? 936 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,360 Speaker 1: And like and then and then for her, oh we 937 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: gotta obsessed with her talking about at the time that 938 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,400 Speaker 1: Tupac said hi to her at the Grammys and the 939 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 1: time that Biggie was Biggie was about to come in 940 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,239 Speaker 1: for the Honey remix. So she she she she got 941 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,279 Speaker 1: she was she she got admiration from both pasts. What 942 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: a fucking I there you go. She And also you know, 943 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: just like that. I loved the writing of the part 944 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 1: where she finally hears the and in the audiobook, it's 945 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 1: great because you actually can hear od be on it 946 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 1: and you really understand, like I think someone someone who 947 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 1: grew up with that song, like just that's one of 948 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,839 Speaker 1: those things you just kind of assumed was always there. 949 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,840 Speaker 1: No me and Mariah go back, like maybe it was 950 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 1: a passing that that whole thing, even though New York 951 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,719 Speaker 1: in the house, etcetera, like all that like that is 952 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,879 Speaker 1: so and just that whole fantasy remix that is a 953 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,880 Speaker 1: moment in contemporary musical time, like truly stars aligning to 954 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: make a classic. And she had to be flipping out 955 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,200 Speaker 1: as someone who wanted that's so badly to her thing 956 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: and then you hear that think about being there and 957 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: then unfortunately she didn't have a fucking husband and musical 958 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,440 Speaker 1: partner who could appreciate that. That's when she had to 959 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 1: know it was over totally. I mean, I love in 960 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:44,400 Speaker 1: the book she's like, it's so random that ODB just went, um, 961 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit country and then maybe like baby 962 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,880 Speaker 1: maybe it's just so and it just leads so perfectly 963 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,719 Speaker 1: right into the Mariah vocal. It's like, what a perfect 964 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: what a visionary to like try us that that would 965 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,719 Speaker 1: work to be to push for that and be like no, 966 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,719 Speaker 1: I'm picking O d B. And I'm and it's gonna 967 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 1: be like us at like you know, the Carnival or whatever, 968 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: like the music videos like them at the Carnival. Yeah, yeah, 969 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: they're right, Playland, Yes, that's right there, theme Park. And 970 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: so I just admired that vision, maybe not above all 971 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: else in her artistry, but it's like it's such an 972 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 1: important element to like Mariah Carey the artists that it's 973 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 1: just like, oh, like that's that's priceless, like that that 974 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,040 Speaker 1: comes along like once in a generation maybe I don't know. 975 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: And she'd replicate it so many times. I mean, like 976 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: that's another thing about when you look with Kanye and 977 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 1: with like with Kanye, with jay Z and Heartbreaker, with 978 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,640 Speaker 1: all these things you know, like etcetera, etcetera. She's just 979 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 1: done it so many times. Like and also one of 980 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: my favorite songs on Caution is the Distance, which she 981 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 1: has ty Dolla sign on, and like that song is 982 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:58,960 Speaker 1: fucking great and I would recommend that people revisit. And also, um, 983 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,560 Speaker 1: I mean literally another part about this whole last week 984 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: and a half, as I've been reading this and listening 985 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: to the audiobook, it's only been Maria music for me, 986 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,399 Speaker 1: and it's been so nice because I love it so much, 987 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 1: because it is timeless and even her more recent albums 988 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: that do have the more um more like sort of 989 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,439 Speaker 1: frivolous quote unquote content, like you know what I mean, 990 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,279 Speaker 1: Like she's being funny, she's not. It's not super taking 991 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,520 Speaker 1: itself super seriously. It's still when you listen to it 992 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: is like top Deer. It really is like even like me, 993 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,960 Speaker 1: I am Maria the Elusive shantus like it's got a 994 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,800 Speaker 1: goofy fucking title, very good off that track. I mean, yeah, 995 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,799 Speaker 1: there there's like so much good stuff on there. And 996 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,920 Speaker 1: I think that it was named something so crazy that 997 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: people sort of wrote it off and maybe it doesn't 998 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,799 Speaker 1: need another name if I'm too criticized, but but um, 999 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,160 Speaker 1: but really it's so good that's underrated equals MC square. 1000 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: It is fucking great. And emancipation of Mimi Emancipation of 1001 00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: MEMI like that is. It's one of the best albums ever. 1002 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: Every song is class, every song was classic. I love 1003 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,960 Speaker 1: I Gassed when she was like kind of like going 1004 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,479 Speaker 1: through all the tracks. But then she goes, your Girl 1005 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 1: should have been a single, and I was like, yes, yes, yes, 1006 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,839 Speaker 1: because I thought this for years and I had just 1007 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,920 Speaker 1: like I listened to Emancipation the other week and you 1008 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 1: and I connectually. We were like, oh my god, literally, 1009 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,279 Speaker 1: sister life hashtag hashtag sister life. I was listening to 1010 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: your Girl. I put it on my stories and you're like, literally, sister, 1011 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: I forgot how good that song is. Your Girl is 1012 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,560 Speaker 1: not a joke. And then she she does say she's 1013 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: so good, and then like she says, like people don't 1014 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 1: really know how much I love that song. I should 1015 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: have been a single. One I did. I almost crashed 1016 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 1: my car when I was driving. I was like, yes, 1017 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: but but the thing is about that album is that 1018 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:47,319 Speaker 1: album was made of hits like stay the Night. That 1019 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: song was epic, say something I actually think was released 1020 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,319 Speaker 1: as a single, but like a later one, it didn't 1021 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: really hit. But so much stuff on that album, and 1022 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,440 Speaker 1: then obviously all the hit she did have and she 1023 00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,719 Speaker 1: of course did the rerelease with Don't Forget About It, 1024 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,680 Speaker 1: which is so good just that album is, and that 1025 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,600 Speaker 1: album also means a ton to me because that album 1026 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,760 Speaker 1: came out of two thousand five, and I remember that 1027 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,880 Speaker 1: that was like yeah, so basically I think it was 1028 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,160 Speaker 1: freshman freshman year. The summer of freshman year. I was 1029 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: listening to it a lot because I was at a 1030 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,879 Speaker 1: cross country camp and like I said, it was hard 1031 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,360 Speaker 1: for me to make new friends because I was so anxious, 1032 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: and I just would put my walkman on on the 1033 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 1: buses to like, uh practices and stuff like that, and 1034 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: I would just listen to Emancipation the whole way through, 1035 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 1: like shake it Off was slapping so hard at that time, 1036 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,799 Speaker 1: Oh my god, just like so good and so fun. 1037 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,640 Speaker 1: It's like that, like I feel like it's like an 1038 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,520 Speaker 1: up tempo sort of like club moment, but it really 1039 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,560 Speaker 1: is the like, um, the melody of it is so creative, 1040 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:58,000 Speaker 1: we blown together. I mean, it's such a classic. I 1041 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:03,040 Speaker 1: think that is track for track my favorite album album. 1042 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so good. But also this sounds weird, 1043 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 1: but Caution has a very special place in my heart. 1044 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:14,120 Speaker 1: Like so good as an album that works that just 1045 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, and I this sounds weird, but like 1046 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,920 Speaker 1: as an album that is such a clean, confident like 1047 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,800 Speaker 1: way of like lifting Mariah from two or yeah, lifting 1048 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: Maria from two five and then like dropping her and 1049 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of still retaining that DNA. I'm just like, Oh, 1050 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 1: that's like really fucking impressive that you still made this 1051 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,600 Speaker 1: work like whatever, like thirteen years later. You know, it's like, oh, 1052 00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,920 Speaker 1: you're this is timeless. This is timeless. This is like 1053 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,360 Speaker 1: what I'm getting at. It's like, this is this is 1054 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,360 Speaker 1: a timeless, all time great artist, all timer The fact 1055 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,879 Speaker 1: that that album was so roundly ignored by the Grammys, 1056 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:56,880 Speaker 1: like caution, yeah, You're right, it's so pathetic. It's so pathetic. 1057 00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:01,080 Speaker 1: And the fact that she's only one five go I'm sorry, 1058 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,560 Speaker 1: go back and listen to you're gonna give out Pop 1059 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 1: Vocal Grammys and you're gonna and Fantasy is not rewarded. 1060 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,160 Speaker 1: You're gonna give out pop vocal Grammys, and Heartbreaker is 1061 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,520 Speaker 1: not going to be rewarded. Even though the entire end 1062 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,439 Speaker 1: are those three that that that like laid over those 1063 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,240 Speaker 1: three vocal tracks which are made of her song. Her 1064 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,680 Speaker 1: voice is unbelievable. The fact that she can just decide 1065 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: what VERSU melody she's gonna do and it works. At 1066 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,640 Speaker 1: any time you're gonna give out vocal Grammys and only 1067 00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:34,240 Speaker 1: have Mariah have a couple, fuck you actually up the ass. 1068 00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 1: It's so ridiculous, it's crazy disrespectful, and the Grammys are canceled. 1069 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,000 Speaker 1: And this is my thing is it's like, if Billie 1070 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 1: Eilish can win in No Shade, and if she can 1071 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,440 Speaker 1: win in one year what Mariah has in her entire 1072 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:54,200 Speaker 1: career years, get the funk out of here. I want 1073 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,400 Speaker 1: to talk about lover Boy. I want to talk about 1074 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,440 Speaker 1: the j lo of it all for just yeah, let's chat. 1075 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,480 Speaker 1: I mean, let's do it. You wait, was this do 1076 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,400 Speaker 1: we did? We get this on the on the record, 1077 00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,680 Speaker 1: you are on you you have a hot take on this, 1078 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,720 Speaker 1: my hot no this. So before we started, Bone was saying, 1079 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, because we're listening to the rarities as well, 1080 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,000 Speaker 1: which is fantastic. I love that she's sang out here 1081 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:16,800 Speaker 1: on my own. I love that song on such a 1082 00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: classic old Irenekara song from the Fame soundtrack, which is 1083 00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: recorded in two thousand. She because she's saying it when 1084 00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,320 Speaker 1: she was young. At a talent show, we were saying 1085 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,360 Speaker 1: Bone was talking about the lover Boy original mix that 1086 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,800 Speaker 1: she was gonna do and put on the it was 1087 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,120 Speaker 1: gonna be liter the song and Glitter, and then Tommy 1088 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,640 Speaker 1: Motola because they had been divorced at this point, he 1089 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,360 Speaker 1: was working with Jennifer Lopez and well after Mariah had 1090 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: done all of this work on Loverboy with the sample 1091 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,640 Speaker 1: that she wanted, he took it and gave it to 1092 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,480 Speaker 1: j LO, who was also on the label, and he 1093 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,720 Speaker 1: basically was just like you went behind Maria's back and 1094 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,920 Speaker 1: sucked her up creatively full context. Glitter was was distributed 1095 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,240 Speaker 1: by Sony. Mantola was still working at Sony was able 1096 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,240 Speaker 1: to see the dailies and was able to see I 1097 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,440 Speaker 1: guess maybe not the dailies, but like the tracks. So 1098 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,240 Speaker 1: like Tommy Amatola got got his hands on lover Boy, 1099 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: which has this yellow light orchestra sample. It's so good, 1100 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,240 Speaker 1: so good, and like Mariah picked hand picked it out herself. Um, 1101 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,919 Speaker 1: I think with Jermaine Deprade maybe, um, probably so. Then 1102 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,280 Speaker 1: first so Tommy Motola fuctor over twice in this first 1103 00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: gives the sample to JLS like here record this song UM, 1104 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 1: and then it turns out to be I'm Reel. It 1105 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:33,280 Speaker 1: uses that UM sample, but it's not the jaw Rule remix. 1106 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,360 Speaker 1: It's I'm Real but it's like really sort of upbeat 1107 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,600 Speaker 1: and peppie and has this disco sample. And then when 1108 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:43,800 Speaker 1: um Mariah is is laying down vocals with draw Rule 1109 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,840 Speaker 1: and this duet for the Glitter soundtrack, Tommy Motola gets 1110 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:53,400 Speaker 1: wind of that then tells Jlo's people, Hey, got put 1111 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:55,880 Speaker 1: jaw Rule on this. Let's just remix I'm Real with 1112 00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:57,680 Speaker 1: that sample, with it, with this, with that song that 1113 00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,560 Speaker 1: has that old, that old sample that I told you 1114 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:03,560 Speaker 1: guys abou So if I was Mariah Carrey and my 1115 01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,640 Speaker 1: art had been violated like that and just so nakedly 1116 01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,720 Speaker 1: sabotaged in that way, I would I would have ended 1117 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,760 Speaker 1: up in a facility like the way I would. I 1118 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,960 Speaker 1: would have been yeah, institutionalized. Yeah, I would have ended 1119 01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,720 Speaker 1: up the same place she would have been, like you know, 1120 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,000 Speaker 1: like one. And the thing is to also know that 1121 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:28,000 Speaker 1: she is responsible for and labors over, as you said, 1122 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,200 Speaker 1: that music, and to give it to an artist like 1123 01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,520 Speaker 1: Jlo who no shade, but it's just not she's not 1124 01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: artistically involved musically in that way, it's just not what 1125 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:40,880 Speaker 1: she does. She does something different and she does it 1126 01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:46,720 Speaker 1: really well, but it's it's it's the lowest blow, especially 1127 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,000 Speaker 1: because he wanted to funk her up because he wanted 1128 01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,960 Speaker 1: to in any way stop the success of an acting 1129 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,880 Speaker 1: project that she had, because he was always forbidding her 1130 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: to act, take acting lessons, etcetera. God. So, so then 1131 01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: we were talking before we started, and you were you 1132 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,160 Speaker 1: were kind of saying that you that do you that 1133 01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,640 Speaker 1: you like this lover boy that that's on the rarities. 1134 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,959 Speaker 1: I love this lover boy on the rareas I never 1135 01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: really like. I mean, the lover boy on the Glitter 1136 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,720 Speaker 1: soundtrack is fun, but you could you could tell it 1137 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,440 Speaker 1: was just like a little too like Frankenstein out of 1138 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 1: like other beats and stuff, and there's like three different 1139 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,480 Speaker 1: features on it. I was just like, it just felt 1140 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,080 Speaker 1: like it's just like a very chaotic Mariah song to me. 1141 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:30,560 Speaker 1: Um and and it alway always stayed out to me 1142 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,520 Speaker 1: that way. I was like, Okay, this is not I 1143 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,800 Speaker 1: was like, this is not what the original intended work was, 1144 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:38,560 Speaker 1: do you know what I'm saying. I always had that 1145 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,000 Speaker 1: suspicion for me I'm gonna go ahead and agree with 1146 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,800 Speaker 1: Maria that the that the cameo version of lover Boy 1147 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,960 Speaker 1: is better, Like I do. I actually think that that 1148 01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 1: every the stars aligned here and we ended up with 1149 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,520 Speaker 1: a better lover boy, I mean, a lover and well 1150 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,840 Speaker 1: much like a daddy. She does that, yeah, but she does, 1151 01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: but like it works with this, Like don't don't like 1152 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,400 Speaker 1: the calic cameo thing, Like I just love it. I 1153 01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,760 Speaker 1: just think it's so fun and eighties and yes it 1154 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,680 Speaker 1: is chaotic, but that to me makes it like more 1155 01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,480 Speaker 1: the genre and more the vibe. Like I just don't 1156 01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,520 Speaker 1: see I guess, like I hear that Loverboy cameo version 1157 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,040 Speaker 1: that we all know, and I feel like this sounds 1158 01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,440 Speaker 1: like a hit song in the movie, like the movie 1159 01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,280 Speaker 1: needed it to be like or whatever, and like had 1160 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,280 Speaker 1: it been the other song, it's like a little bit 1161 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,640 Speaker 1: more like down tempo, It's like a little bit more. 1162 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,920 Speaker 1: It just doesn't feel as much like it's suiting the 1163 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,240 Speaker 1: purpose that the lover Boy with cameo needed to. I 1164 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,400 Speaker 1: still like it, But so the Loverboy love Both cameo 1165 01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 1: version is why did you do that? Like it had 1166 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,480 Speaker 1: to be a successful song in the world of the 1167 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:46,480 Speaker 1: movie and the lover Boy original Firecracker mix is um 1168 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,919 Speaker 1: like the Cure where it's like it doesn't really make 1169 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,320 Speaker 1: sense in the film. Okay that that I will say. 1170 01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,600 Speaker 1: My hot take is I do love I'm real withdraw 1171 01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,520 Speaker 1: roule by j Loo. And this is the thing. I 1172 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: think it's important to say that it's not Jia is 1173 01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,840 Speaker 1: Mariah and it's but like Mariah has every right to 1174 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,640 Speaker 1: like not know j loever. Um, but I feel like 1175 01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,560 Speaker 1: it's a thing where again it's this, it's some capitalist 1176 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:15,640 Speaker 1: class motherfucker who's pitting these who's pitting these and created 1177 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,920 Speaker 1: conflict intention whether there didn't need to be, undermining solidarity 1178 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:25,360 Speaker 1: between artists and is being like fully neoliberal Margaret Thatcher asked, motherfucker, 1179 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,760 Speaker 1: and is like pitting these people against each other. The 1180 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,920 Speaker 1: thing about Mariah is she can't help herself. She can't. 1181 01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,120 Speaker 1: She has been asked about j Lo many times over 1182 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,200 Speaker 1: the past twenty years or whatever, and she's always shady 1183 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,960 Speaker 1: and borderline. She even has got she even has said 1184 01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,520 Speaker 1: things like she's not a singer, etcetera. Whatever. But the 1185 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:45,720 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that's another reason why we 1186 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,120 Speaker 1: love Mariah. She cannot help herself. When she thinks of 1187 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,240 Speaker 1: a funny, smart thing, she's gonna say it, and yone, 1188 01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,760 Speaker 1: it's like yeah, and you can't touch her ultimately at 1189 01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,080 Speaker 1: the end of the day. So it's like for me, 1190 01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,360 Speaker 1: I forgive her for anything she's done. That's like super 1191 01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,560 Speaker 1: sady and I I will say this. She she again 1192 01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:03,800 Speaker 1: could not help herself when she said at the end 1193 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,760 Speaker 1: of that chapter and at the end of the day, 1194 01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,760 Speaker 1: lover Boy was the best selling single of the year. 1195 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm real, I know. I was like, oh my god, 1196 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,720 Speaker 1: I mean, but this is the thing. Though I didn't 1197 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,240 Speaker 1: know about all this. I really did like the research 1198 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,360 Speaker 1: after I read that that chapter because I did not 1199 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,920 Speaker 1: know that that was that, that was all happening. That 1200 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,800 Speaker 1: was the catalyst. Yeah, honestly. And I even went back 1201 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,640 Speaker 1: and watched, like, you know, the dumb YouTube videos are 1202 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:34,520 Speaker 1: like Shadius Maria moments. I said out loud, it all 1203 01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,080 Speaker 1: makes sense, all makes sense now, and we loved, we 1204 01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:39,960 Speaker 1: loved j Lo on this spot, of course. But it's 1205 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: also I see, I see why Maria feels this way. Yeah, 1206 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, for me, it's just like it's 1207 01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,360 Speaker 1: so weird that they're so constantly in conflict like in 1208 01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:55,520 Speaker 1: the media, because they're so different, they have nothing in common. 1209 01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:00,280 Speaker 1: Like there, I guess they're the same sorry generation generated action. 1210 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,880 Speaker 1: Like I guess they've been successful through the same periods 1211 01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,000 Speaker 1: of time. And I think, honestly, what binds them the 1212 01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,440 Speaker 1: most is that people keep sucking needing them to be 1213 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:11,320 Speaker 1: in the same conversation. Let's stop. That's the thing. I 1214 01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,880 Speaker 1: don't think so honey, doing the Maria Versjlo of at all, 1215 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,480 Speaker 1: because ultimately there's no competition because one of them is 1216 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,480 Speaker 1: extremely talented in one way, one of them is extremely 1217 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,040 Speaker 1: talented in another. You know, Jlo is a dancer and 1218 01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,840 Speaker 1: performer and actress. Mariah is a composer and singer and 1219 01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,880 Speaker 1: and musical actress and actress. And let's talk about the 1220 01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,840 Speaker 1: acting a little bit, because one thing I loved was 1221 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,200 Speaker 1: the chapter where she talks about when Tommy Matola finally 1222 01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,200 Speaker 1: allowed her to take an acting class and she meets 1223 01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,880 Speaker 1: with this very like very well characterized in the book, 1224 01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,760 Speaker 1: kind of cookie acting teacher. It's like draped in fabrics 1225 01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,920 Speaker 1: and smells like essential oils or whatever and tells your 1226 01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,400 Speaker 1: lay on the ground and like relax and go to 1227 01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,440 Speaker 1: her safe place and she can't find a safe place, 1228 01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,880 Speaker 1: and she has a she has like a real physical 1229 01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:04,360 Speaker 1: breakdown because she's realizing she doesn't know even how to 1230 01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,400 Speaker 1: pretend to feel relaxed and safe. This to me was like, 1231 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,360 Speaker 1: this is someone who has been psychologically tortured. And that's 1232 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:16,400 Speaker 1: something that I think is like pretty explicitly stated without 1233 01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,920 Speaker 1: being without being explicitly stated in the book, is like, 1234 01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:23,240 Speaker 1: she was psychologically abused for years by Tommy Mottola years 1235 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,560 Speaker 1: her her whole life, her whole fucking life. She did 1236 01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:28,440 Speaker 1: not have a memory of a safe place to go to. 1237 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,040 Speaker 1: I think that was even one of the drilled down 1238 01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,920 Speaker 1: layers was the acting teacher was like, Okay, but what 1239 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:35,800 Speaker 1: about in your past? And she was like I still 1240 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,400 Speaker 1: like she was, She's like, I still don't have that 1241 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,600 Speaker 1: place that I have no memory of feeling safe. How 1242 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,440 Speaker 1: sad is that? You know? Which makes which makes the 1243 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,160 Speaker 1: end of the book when she says she can finally 1244 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,680 Speaker 1: sit down and she has the kids and she's had 1245 01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,040 Speaker 1: a nice Christmas, because that's another part of the book 1246 01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,240 Speaker 1: is her fascination with Christmas is sort of explored and 1247 01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:59,840 Speaker 1: explained because she never had a real family Christmas. She 1248 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,240 Speaker 1: always wanted to have the family have a nice Christmas together, 1249 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,640 Speaker 1: but always interrupted in violence or arguing or whatever the fuck. 1250 01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:11,000 Speaker 1: And she in her adult life because she has clung 1251 01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:14,120 Speaker 1: to the inner child, which is I think another reason 1252 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,240 Speaker 1: why I love her so is she refuses to lose that, 1253 01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,160 Speaker 1: and I think it's something that everyone could learn from. 1254 01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 1: In some elements, she says her fascination with Christmas and 1255 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,800 Speaker 1: the need to be joyful around Christmas and celebrate is 1256 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:27,600 Speaker 1: because she never had that. And so at the end 1257 01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:30,920 Speaker 1: of the book, when she's at peace after the concert, 1258 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,120 Speaker 1: like I think it was a New Year's concert or something, 1259 01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,720 Speaker 1: and she's looking out at every all of her fans 1260 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,240 Speaker 1: that had been there and the people that have worked 1261 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,320 Speaker 1: with her that have been there and stuff, and she's 1262 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,640 Speaker 1: finally sitting there and everyone's retired to their rooms, and 1263 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,240 Speaker 1: the kids are safe and happy, and um, they've had 1264 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,520 Speaker 1: like a festive moment, if you will. Um, she's able 1265 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,280 Speaker 1: to sit there and she's able to have a quiet 1266 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,160 Speaker 1: moment with herself, and she says, I am peaceful, I 1267 01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,840 Speaker 1: am complete, and that like just gave me. I was 1268 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:03,600 Speaker 1: just so moved by this because it was really it 1269 01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,440 Speaker 1: was really hard one because the whole book leads up 1270 01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,120 Speaker 1: to that because the whole book you're sort of held 1271 01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,400 Speaker 1: at the point of like you're held at the question 1272 01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:18,519 Speaker 1: of is she has she ever felt happiness? Like you know, 1273 01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. That sounds like a little extreme undermatic. Well, 1274 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,760 Speaker 1: she describes that as like being a difficult thing for 1275 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,519 Speaker 1: her because she also talks a lot about how she 1276 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,479 Speaker 1: genuinely believed when she married Tommy Motola this was a 1277 01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,880 Speaker 1: price she had to pay for success, that you could 1278 01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:36,760 Speaker 1: not both have success and happiness. It didn't exist like 1279 01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,400 Speaker 1: like almost the universe was saying to her, we'll give 1280 01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,120 Speaker 1: you success, you'll never have happiness, Like it didn't seem 1281 01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,519 Speaker 1: like a possibility to her realistically with the way that 1282 01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:49,000 Speaker 1: her her life was panning out, and she genuinely did 1283 01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,559 Speaker 1: believe that she'd be married to Tommy Metola forever because 1284 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,680 Speaker 1: she thought, this is what it is, like, I'll be 1285 01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,360 Speaker 1: taken care of. This guy does get me musically, and 1286 01:08:57,400 --> 01:08:59,760 Speaker 1: we do have that connection. It's just that I would 1287 01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,200 Speaker 1: be romantically happy. And also it's there an element of 1288 01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,040 Speaker 1: that is her not actually understanding what it is to 1289 01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:11,000 Speaker 1: be romantically fulfilled, sexually fulfilled, you know, emotionally fulfilled, never 1290 01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,360 Speaker 1: so it's not like she knew she was missing something, 1291 01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,720 Speaker 1: you know, she just thought this must be the way 1292 01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,479 Speaker 1: life is. She understood that trade off, or thought she 1293 01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 1: understood it right right where. She thought that was the 1294 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:29,200 Speaker 1: implicit thing. I think that her obsession with Christmas is 1295 01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,479 Speaker 1: so is like I mean, thank God for that. You know. 1296 01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,759 Speaker 1: It's like it's so like we've only reaped the benefits 1297 01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:40,519 Speaker 1: of her obsession with Christmas. I feel, oh absolutely. I mean, 1298 01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,759 Speaker 1: when you hear the song all I Want from Christmas 1299 01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,439 Speaker 1: is you you feel like Christmas, you know what I mean, Like, 1300 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:47,800 Speaker 1: I think it's the best Christmas song of all time. 1301 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,600 Speaker 1: I would say, I would say it's it's got the 1302 01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's so funny because she did write 1303 01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,320 Speaker 1: it so quickly. She says like it was like an 1304 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,599 Speaker 1: hour and a half or so that she wrote it in. 1305 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,719 Speaker 1: But to me, it's just like that's so like of course, 1306 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,280 Speaker 1: because it is so pure, you know, it's upbeat, it's happy, 1307 01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:10,519 Speaker 1: it's expressing um a need for connection during Christmas. It's 1308 01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,680 Speaker 1: it's not about material things. In fact, it's like um 1309 01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:18,160 Speaker 1: issuing commercial like pursuits into material things. It's just about 1310 01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 1: all I want for Christmas, is you that person that 1311 01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:22,960 Speaker 1: makes me happy? And that's what I That's what I 1312 01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,760 Speaker 1: really want, truly deep down in my heart. And you 1313 01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,160 Speaker 1: can anyone can sing it, even if you're not someone 1314 01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,439 Speaker 1: that really celebrates Christmas like I feel like, it does 1315 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,560 Speaker 1: have a spirit to it. It's spirited, it's happy, it's jubilant. 1316 01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:40,200 Speaker 1: It is that feeling of Christmas, and it's to me. 1317 01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,800 Speaker 1: I would I would, I would say it is the 1318 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:47,160 Speaker 1: best Christmas song. Wow. And there are some fun things 1319 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:52,439 Speaker 1: to expect from Matt Rogers and his Christmas music were 1320 01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,840 Speaker 1: more No, because it won't be this year, but anyway, yeah, well, 1321 01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:00,559 Speaker 1: I mean things are happening, but maybe maybe that this year. 1322 01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,400 Speaker 1: Definitely not this year, but anyway, we're visiting that later. Um. 1323 01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,880 Speaker 1: But yes, so what what if you had to say 1324 01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,160 Speaker 1: your favorite thing about as we sort of we're an 1325 01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:11,880 Speaker 1: hour an hour sixty. I could talk about this forever. 1326 01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:13,679 Speaker 1: And that's another thing about the book is when it ended, 1327 01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 1: I was so depressed. All I want to do is 1328 01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:18,880 Speaker 1: to talk. But you know, it was so funny when 1329 01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,240 Speaker 1: she does, she very briefly touches on the New Year's 1330 01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,559 Speaker 1: Eve debacle. And I say debacle because she says not 1331 01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,840 Speaker 1: all tobaccos are created equal. Darling in the book, which 1332 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:31,160 Speaker 1: I loved, but I loved when she said it's gonna 1333 01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:32,960 Speaker 1: be hard for me to find right now. But basically 1334 01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,559 Speaker 1: what she says is like she likens it too when 1335 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,439 Speaker 1: you're a little kid and you get your eye, you 1336 01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,439 Speaker 1: get sand in your eye on the sandbox, and then 1337 01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,160 Speaker 1: you leave, go on, do your life, become a doctor, 1338 01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,559 Speaker 1: like be really successful. Um we we we can into this. 1339 01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:47,840 Speaker 1: I found I found the passage. Say the passage, yet 1340 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:49,360 Speaker 1: you can say, you're obviously going to read it better 1341 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,640 Speaker 1: than I can remember it well. She's talking about like 1342 01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:53,840 Speaker 1: the risks of singing the cold, and she's talking about 1343 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:55,439 Speaker 1: Luther Andrews was the first startist to warm me the 1344 01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,760 Speaker 1: risk of singing the cold. There's a certain performance of 1345 01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,719 Speaker 1: mine in the Bitter Cold wearing a sheer bedazzle leotard 1346 01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,560 Speaker 1: and eight in Glubaton's at the World's Busiest Intersection, etcetera, etcetera. 1347 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:05,639 Speaker 1: To me, it's as if I was a child playing 1348 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:07,120 Speaker 1: in the sandbox and I got stand in my eye, 1349 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,280 Speaker 1: wept theatrically and caused a scene, and then arrived twenty 1350 01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,400 Speaker 1: years later at my class room, and after I had, 1351 01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,000 Speaker 1: after having gotten a PhD and become a celebrated scholar, 1352 01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:17,840 Speaker 1: only have my classmates asked, oh, but how's your eye? 1353 01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,360 Speaker 1: I was a lot of things in that fleeting moment 1354 01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:21,519 Speaker 1: in the cold, but I knew one thing certainly, I 1355 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,640 Speaker 1: was not I was not broken, not even close. I 1356 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:25,760 Speaker 1: had been through so much worse. All debacles are not 1357 01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,640 Speaker 1: created equal dotted. So she reads that in the audiobook, 1358 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,080 Speaker 1: and after she says that, but how's your eye, she 1359 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,160 Speaker 1: cracks up and they have to cut the take and 1360 01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:39,040 Speaker 1: she starts again. It's just so funny and so real, 1361 01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:41,880 Speaker 1: and you can tell it really doesn't matter to her, 1362 01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,040 Speaker 1: but I remember it mattered so fucking much to the 1363 01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,080 Speaker 1: whole world. Like no one could stop talking about that 1364 01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:50,679 Speaker 1: for like a week, and I was just like shut up, 1365 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,240 Speaker 1: Like and you know what, I don't even know what 1366 01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:55,320 Speaker 1: we said on this podcast at that time. I'm sure 1367 01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,679 Speaker 1: we touched on it, but it's like I was saying before, 1368 01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,040 Speaker 1: It's like part of loving Mariah is is being able 1369 01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,360 Speaker 1: to make jokes about it all, you know, And we've 1370 01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,439 Speaker 1: even joked about Bianca as if it's like she like 1371 01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,519 Speaker 1: very she very seriously took on this like ultra ego. 1372 01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,479 Speaker 1: But it's like, no, she was. She realized how dumber. 1373 01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,639 Speaker 1: She's a goof. She's a goof. She's fun. The fact 1374 01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:22,559 Speaker 1: that she even wrote music like alternative rock music sung 1375 01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:26,360 Speaker 1: through Bianca, it's like, what a dedication to your craft 1376 01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,880 Speaker 1: tree to like create this fictional character and then like 1377 01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:34,080 Speaker 1: fill her creative life out with her own songs that 1378 01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 1: that are that are differentiated from your own. Like, that's amazing, 1379 01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,400 Speaker 1: that's great. Did you see what I texted you, um 1380 01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,000 Speaker 1: about the emancipation of it all? She says, um Um, 1381 01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,439 Speaker 1: emancipation was an amazing time, and it was amazing time 1382 01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,800 Speaker 1: for my fans. They need to see me succeed, They 1383 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,200 Speaker 1: needed to see me come back like that. I agree, 1384 01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,320 Speaker 1: that was an amazing moment in that culture. That's one 1385 01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,559 Speaker 1: of the best that culture moments in history. And honestly, 1386 01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:03,840 Speaker 1: I'll never forget how triumphant it felt because because here's 1387 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,200 Speaker 1: the thing, like through the glitter of it all. I 1388 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,960 Speaker 1: think I told this on the podcast, but the day 1389 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,839 Speaker 1: the album came out was nine eleven, and she actually 1390 01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,639 Speaker 1: talks very vividly about how when she saw the towers fall, 1391 01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,920 Speaker 1: she was in that detox rehab center that her brother 1392 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,280 Speaker 1: basically fooled her into going too because she thought it 1393 01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:23,840 Speaker 1: was a spot. She really didn't need a detox freehab center. 1394 01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:26,840 Speaker 1: She was just exhausted from sleeping two hours and six 1395 01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:32,360 Speaker 1: days during the glitter promotion cycle. Psycho Um, but she 1396 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,559 Speaker 1: says that's where she watched the towers fall down, and 1397 01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,640 Speaker 1: I actually, I mean this is true the day of 1398 01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:39,479 Speaker 1: nine eleven, and it was scary to live in the 1399 01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,639 Speaker 1: Tri State area on nine eleven, like that was that 1400 01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:46,760 Speaker 1: was really a very dark day. But I had been 1401 01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:51,559 Speaker 1: living for that. I remember it was Tuesday, September eleven. 1402 01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:55,080 Speaker 1: This is a music came out on Tuesdays. I said, Mom, 1403 01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:58,360 Speaker 1: today after school, we're gonna go get Mariah's glitter. You 1404 01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,519 Speaker 1: told me that we could, and she was like, yes, 1405 01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,920 Speaker 1: of course. And then not an hour and a half later, 1406 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,160 Speaker 1: I'm getting picked up from school early, Like it's really weird. 1407 01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Like I just got there and my mother was like, 1408 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:15,320 Speaker 1: we gotta go home. There's something happening, etcetera. And that's when, um, 1409 01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,439 Speaker 1: you know, an eleven year old me was sort of 1410 01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,720 Speaker 1: realizing what was happening, but I still was like my 1411 01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:23,920 Speaker 1: security blanket at that time was gonna be that album, 1412 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,720 Speaker 1: regardless of any national tragedy. I was like, you know 1413 01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,320 Speaker 1: you will take me to the to the CD store 1414 01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,920 Speaker 1: to get this album. I was hit in hysteric and 1415 01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:37,040 Speaker 1: you did buy it. She was like they're gonna be closed. 1416 01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:39,920 Speaker 1: I was like, we have to go. So we get there, 1417 01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:43,280 Speaker 1: they're closing and the people they're like teens that were 1418 01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:46,120 Speaker 1: working at the store were like, um, we're closing because 1419 01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,240 Speaker 1: of nine eleven. Like as it was happening, my mother 1420 01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,800 Speaker 1: was like police, like he won't. I knew they needed. 1421 01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:54,840 Speaker 1: They knew to call at nine eleven on the day. No, 1422 01:15:55,080 --> 01:16:00,200 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like obviously, but it was so they 1423 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,920 Speaker 1: were like, we can't do this right now, and I 1424 01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:04,640 Speaker 1: was just I think they saw in my eyes that 1425 01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,200 Speaker 1: I was such a gay kid that my mother, my 1426 01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,960 Speaker 1: poor mother would not gay kids. They knew my mother 1427 01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,160 Speaker 1: couldn't deal with nine eleven and me that day if 1428 01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:14,760 Speaker 1: I didn't have Maria. So they said, they said, let's 1429 01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,439 Speaker 1: get this little kid. I almost said a little fact, 1430 01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:18,760 Speaker 1: and I am going to say a little fact. I 1431 01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:21,559 Speaker 1: was the album so that he cannot make his mother's 1432 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,479 Speaker 1: life more of a living hell than it already is 1433 01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:25,120 Speaker 1: going to be with all the uncertainty in the w 1434 01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,240 Speaker 1: R L L D. I have a question, did they 1435 01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:31,479 Speaker 1: have um, miss padlock A Silk songs on that album 1436 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,320 Speaker 1: or no, Silk does not appear on the album. But 1437 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:38,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's so funny. Pod is good in the movie. 1438 01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:42,280 Speaker 1: She goes such a bad singer on the track, like 1439 01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,360 Speaker 1: it's but on purpose, but she's so perfect in that 1440 01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,400 Speaker 1: she's so good. And then there's a moment where like 1441 01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,040 Speaker 1: they put Maria on the track instead of Silk, and 1442 01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,160 Speaker 1: Terence how it looks at podn like nods and she 1443 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,360 Speaker 1: nods back like, Yeah, we're gonna get this bitch to 1444 01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,320 Speaker 1: sing for me. And it's just so funny. Poo is 1445 01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:01,320 Speaker 1: a star. But we knew that we love her. We 1446 01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:04,000 Speaker 1: love her. Dearly, come back, Podma, it's time for you 1447 01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,240 Speaker 1: to come back. We weren't able to. We we couldn't 1448 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:07,920 Speaker 1: we We were supposed to get Papa back on the 1449 01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:12,880 Speaker 1: show and then schedule gliding. Yeah for Taste the Nache. 1450 01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,560 Speaker 1: But um, we'll get her back soon. But anyway, I 1451 01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:19,040 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you what your favorite if we haven't 1452 01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:21,360 Speaker 1: talked about and you talked about one thing, that's your 1453 01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,840 Speaker 1: favorite thing about the book, what's your favorite thing. Oh um, 1454 01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:30,200 Speaker 1: my favorite thing about the book is honestly, her talking 1455 01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:33,880 Speaker 1: about process. I know this sounds it's like when she 1456 01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:35,519 Speaker 1: she there. There's a part in the book where she 1457 01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:37,120 Speaker 1: lays it out pretty clearly. She's like, this is the 1458 01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,519 Speaker 1: way I like to work. Is I like to um 1459 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,960 Speaker 1: laid down like a scratch vocal where the lyrics aren't 1460 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,360 Speaker 1: even that complete, but it's just like syllable syllable syllables. 1461 01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,160 Speaker 1: Then I'll do a lyrics pass after those are down, 1462 01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,240 Speaker 1: then I'll go back and do another vocal track that 1463 01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,880 Speaker 1: has the finalized lyrics, and then I'll do background vocals. 1464 01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, we're getting a peek into 1465 01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:01,680 Speaker 1: her her creative like fill like principle. You know, it's 1466 01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:03,960 Speaker 1: like that was very special manage, Like, oh, that's very 1467 01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,559 Speaker 1: that's that's worth the price of the book alone. Yeah. 1468 01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,560 Speaker 1: To me, it was also really fun for her to 1469 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:10,120 Speaker 1: hear her say like, I like it to be just 1470 01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,280 Speaker 1: me and my engineer. If I could do my own 1471 01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:15,360 Speaker 1: thing by myself, I would creating the vocals as like 1472 01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:16,960 Speaker 1: a very like almost like she describes it as like 1473 01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,120 Speaker 1: almost a sacred process for her, and that is so 1474 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,080 Speaker 1: evident when you're such a fan of hers for so 1475 01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:29,080 Speaker 1: long because her choices are unparalleled, like the fact that 1476 01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,920 Speaker 1: like the fact that the way she sings his mainstream 1477 01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:37,439 Speaker 1: is like like just like her choices and her like riffs, 1478 01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,000 Speaker 1: and like when she's singing in full voice and head voice, 1479 01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,040 Speaker 1: and the way she can transition between them, and her 1480 01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:45,479 Speaker 1: use of whistletone, and how over the years she's employed 1481 01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:49,320 Speaker 1: the whistletone in such a different way, like how she 1482 01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,360 Speaker 1: layers it into two tracks, like when she's deciding to 1483 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,519 Speaker 1: do it and not do it like that to me 1484 01:18:55,800 --> 01:19:00,559 Speaker 1: was so amazing to hear, and and I I would say, 1485 01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,120 Speaker 1: for me, there's two. I have another one too, but 1486 01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,599 Speaker 1: you go, you go first, Well, my my, my, sorry. 1487 01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,960 Speaker 1: My second one is the epilogue where she's like, if 1488 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:11,720 Speaker 1: I have one thing to share with the world, it's 1489 01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,400 Speaker 1: and the sounds that corny as hell, I know, but 1490 01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,920 Speaker 1: it's something that I needed to hear this week. Um. 1491 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:19,400 Speaker 1: It was like, if there's one thing I can tell 1492 01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:21,280 Speaker 1: the world, that's to never give up on your dreams. 1493 01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:24,800 Speaker 1: And no mother, no mother, father, sister, brother, you know, 1494 01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:29,040 Speaker 1: like manager, person, cousin, friend, fake friend, chicking with the phone, chick, chicken, 1495 01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,160 Speaker 1: and then she ends on Chicken with a Keyboard. Chicken 1496 01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,519 Speaker 1: with a Keyboard, can can like, can like take ever 1497 01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:36,880 Speaker 1: take that away from you, from from things that you've 1498 01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,559 Speaker 1: like built yourself. And I was like, fuck yes, because 1499 01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,479 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I am off the fucking wagon 1500 01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,080 Speaker 1: with like my discipline around like not looking at you know, 1501 01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,800 Speaker 1: the comments and whatever. I'm like fully back because there's 1502 01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,720 Speaker 1: nothing else to do now, and I'm just scrolling and 1503 01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:54,479 Speaker 1: I'm like kind of letting it hit me. And I'm 1504 01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,240 Speaker 1: talking about in therapy, will work through it, but I'm 1505 01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:58,920 Speaker 1: just like, oh, fuck, like this is something I have 1506 01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,240 Speaker 1: to like fix pretty soon. But we're saying that was 1507 01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:03,479 Speaker 1: helpful to me. So I love the epilogue the girls 1508 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,120 Speaker 1: where I have been pretty fucking mean to me over 1509 01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:06,680 Speaker 1: the past two weeks too. I don't I don't know 1510 01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,840 Speaker 1: what's in the water, but I got the we got 1511 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:13,000 Speaker 1: the I got the nastiest review on the podcast app. 1512 01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:19,040 Speaker 1: It was so it was so baseless and fucked up 1513 01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:23,080 Speaker 1: and aggressive, and I was just like, it really nailed me, 1514 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,559 Speaker 1: and we're actually really ruined my mood. When we were 1515 01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,760 Speaker 1: right before we got on the episode last week and 1516 01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,360 Speaker 1: and we talked about this off off the record after 1517 01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:34,160 Speaker 1: we finished recording I and I know, reader, it sounds 1518 01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:36,800 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, frivolous and we're on our little 1519 01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,080 Speaker 1: perch when we sort of complain about this ship. But 1520 01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:43,679 Speaker 1: like it's my feelings, it's it will it. It fucking 1521 01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:47,040 Speaker 1: like rocks her soul in a way, and and um, 1522 01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,519 Speaker 1: it's a matter of scale in some cases in Matt, 1523 01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:53,599 Speaker 1: like after Hot Dog came out, Matt and I were 1524 01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,080 Speaker 1: drunkenly face timing and we were like confiding to each 1525 01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:59,479 Speaker 1: other about this. But it's like there's I don't know, 1526 01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:02,440 Speaker 1: there's there there's like a there's a certain like unnecessarily 1527 01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:07,720 Speaker 1: toxic thing to all this, and like we were still 1528 01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,439 Speaker 1: we're still at that place in the culture where we're 1529 01:21:09,439 --> 01:21:11,080 Speaker 1: figuring out how to move past it. And I think 1530 01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:14,280 Speaker 1: there is progress and there is some empathy that we're 1531 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:16,880 Speaker 1: all practicing towards each other with with with this, and 1532 01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:19,360 Speaker 1: and no matter what your station is in life, we're 1533 01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:22,120 Speaker 1: all sort of trying to understand each other better. But 1534 01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:24,840 Speaker 1: this is something that like I am working through on 1535 01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,360 Speaker 1: a very deeply personal level. It's like the one thing 1536 01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,040 Speaker 1: that is truly ruining my life right now. Yeah, it's 1537 01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:33,160 Speaker 1: really and I feel bad because like I constantly think 1538 01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:35,639 Speaker 1: like and this is another element of it that I hate, 1539 01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,840 Speaker 1: but like just so just to say this, like when 1540 01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,280 Speaker 1: I when I think about the way that I'm dealing 1541 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:43,599 Speaker 1: with the way I'm getting it, and most people are 1542 01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:46,320 Speaker 1: so sweet and so nice, but yes, then they'll be 1543 01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,040 Speaker 1: like that one little comment about like the funk this 1544 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,720 Speaker 1: like this host is like too much or whatever, and 1545 01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,920 Speaker 1: like like there's so much meaner than that, like it's 1546 01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,599 Speaker 1: so crazy, and then like they'll and I think about 1547 01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,920 Speaker 1: what you must get and on the scale you must 1548 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,240 Speaker 1: get it, and then I feel stupid for feeling bad. 1549 01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:05,200 Speaker 1: But then I'm like no, actually no, And then but 1550 01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:09,360 Speaker 1: that's also an element of this, is like please stop 1551 01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:12,560 Speaker 1: comparing Bowen and like if you'll just say what are you? 1552 01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:16,960 Speaker 1: If you if you love Bowen, I agree with you. 1553 01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:20,280 Speaker 1: I do too. But he he would hate it if 1554 01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:22,479 Speaker 1: he heard you talk about the way if you talk 1555 01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,559 Speaker 1: about me the way that you do he this way, 1556 01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,640 Speaker 1: it would not endear you to him at all to 1557 01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,519 Speaker 1: say that I am bad. And if you think that 1558 01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:34,519 Speaker 1: you're impressing me by saying anything negative about Bowen Yang, 1559 01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:38,800 Speaker 1: you couldn't be. You could not be more wrong that 1560 01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:41,280 Speaker 1: like when I take any attack on Bowen is attack 1561 01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:44,080 Speaker 1: on me, Like that's personal to me. I was going 1562 01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:46,160 Speaker 1: to say an attack on you as an attack on me. 1563 01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:49,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if our readers don't know by now, if 1564 01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:51,920 Speaker 1: you listen to this podcast and don't know that I 1565 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,080 Speaker 1: and I tell Matt this on too regular of a 1566 01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:58,680 Speaker 1: basis that I think he is the smartest, funniest, this 1567 01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:04,479 Speaker 1: is my person. I'm like Matt, Matt checks off so 1568 01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:09,320 Speaker 1: many superlatives for me, and I love him so so deeply, 1569 01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:14,560 Speaker 1: like a sister, like a brother, a sibling. If you 1570 01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:18,280 Speaker 1: just don't, don't even bring that, don't present that to 1571 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,600 Speaker 1: me like a fucking offering. Okay, And likewise, for me, 1572 01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:26,560 Speaker 1: it's just like any any anything against Bowen Yang is 1573 01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,280 Speaker 1: you getting smacked. And like I'm serious, I the only 1574 01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:34,000 Speaker 1: way I get Dynasty smack a bit. I will smack you. 1575 01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:36,120 Speaker 1: I will smack you in the face if you come 1576 01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:38,639 Speaker 1: from Bowen, I really will. I'll hit you. And that's 1577 01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,960 Speaker 1: that's me. That's a threat. That's that's not a threat, 1578 01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:44,760 Speaker 1: it's a fact. Step off. And also, don't listen to 1579 01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:46,519 Speaker 1: the podcast if you don't like one of the hosts 1580 01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:52,080 Speaker 1: were it you put sucking dukes up, I will fucking it. 1581 01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:54,360 Speaker 1: Will take such a look, and I will throw hand 1582 01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:56,760 Speaker 1: to destroy you. We will throw hands, will throw hand 1583 01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,400 Speaker 1: me the hands. See me with their hands, Come see 1584 01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,880 Speaker 1: me with them hands hands. Anyway, back to the positivity 1585 01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,280 Speaker 1: around this book. Okay, what was your What were your 1586 01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,680 Speaker 1: favorite moments of the book. I have so many. So 1587 01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:12,600 Speaker 1: basically there's the Diva's chapter where she there's like a 1588 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:16,160 Speaker 1: solid six pages, so I'm gonna get to that in 1589 01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,120 Speaker 1: my own things. So um, there's like a solid six 1590 01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,280 Speaker 1: pages of this book that is all just adulation for 1591 01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:25,280 Speaker 1: um Aretha Franklin, which is so deserved. And also we 1592 01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:31,360 Speaker 1: should say Mariah's impression of Arethas and Diana Ross Maria 1593 01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,800 Speaker 1: they're playing games and then when she's like, why are 1594 01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:37,040 Speaker 1: they playing games? But then they turned the fucking air 1595 01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,760 Speaker 1: off and she's like gets so animated and then she goes, 1596 01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,360 Speaker 1: I was dying. She's just so good. So I love 1597 01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:47,880 Speaker 1: the whole Deva section. I loved hearing about her time 1598 01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:51,360 Speaker 1: with Whitney. I I just I loved it so much 1599 01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:55,559 Speaker 1: because again that was like the machine around them being like, whoop, 1600 01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:57,320 Speaker 1: they're not gonna like each other. They're not gonna like 1601 01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,519 Speaker 1: each other. Let's like, you know, prepare them for this, 1602 01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:01,559 Speaker 1: but all so fan the fires and then for them 1603 01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:03,960 Speaker 1: to connect and compliment each other in such a way. 1604 01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:08,120 Speaker 1: And she said, you know, Brittany was the princess of 1605 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,599 Speaker 1: all vocalists. You know, she was born into almost royalty 1606 01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:14,640 Speaker 1: in terms of singing. Mariah is a craftsman and her 1607 01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,280 Speaker 1: laborer in terms of like composition, and she's they're both 1608 01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:21,479 Speaker 1: incredible singers, etcetera. But they're so different. And how they 1609 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,640 Speaker 1: complimented each other and the laughs that they had at 1610 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,000 Speaker 1: the time they shipped together, you could tell it meant 1611 01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:28,720 Speaker 1: so much to Mariah, and there's so much love in 1612 01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:33,000 Speaker 1: that and um, ultimately, and I also just give an 1613 01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,679 Speaker 1: honorable mention to she says a few good words about 1614 01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:38,960 Speaker 1: a few good men, and there's like beautiful little tributes 1615 01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:42,800 Speaker 1: to Stevie Wonder and Prince and Nelson Mandela and um, 1616 01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,400 Speaker 1: you know those all those gentlemen. But I think my 1617 01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:50,519 Speaker 1: favorite thing um in the book is one that's something 1618 01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,200 Speaker 1: that's been talked about so much, which is the Derek 1619 01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:55,320 Speaker 1: Teter of it all. I mean, I think that they're 1620 01:25:55,760 --> 01:26:00,600 Speaker 1: their their connection over there, shared I shared identity, and 1621 01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:04,040 Speaker 1: they're the way that they first flirted and talked to 1622 01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:05,880 Speaker 1: each other like they were the only people in the room. 1623 01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:09,080 Speaker 1: But she kind of woke up in that moment and 1624 01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:11,960 Speaker 1: the way that translated into her music. I almost like 1625 01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,640 Speaker 1: feel thankful that that meeting happened because it created the 1626 01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:19,320 Speaker 1: whole first half at least of Butterfly. Um, you know, 1627 01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,160 Speaker 1: track one through five or six, you could pretty much 1628 01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:27,960 Speaker 1: argue was all about that relationship that, however brief, but um, 1629 01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, I I was also a huge fan of 1630 01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:35,040 Speaker 1: his at the time because I was I was really 1631 01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:36,599 Speaker 1: into it, and so the fact that they were dating 1632 01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,480 Speaker 1: and now I get to like hear about the specifics 1633 01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:40,960 Speaker 1: of it. Then meeting at this like private Armani Runway 1634 01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,559 Speaker 1: show and then like how cool it was and how 1635 01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,800 Speaker 1: galvanized she was by the conversation, the people her age, 1636 01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,679 Speaker 1: smart people, her age, of all different races, talking about 1637 01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:52,800 Speaker 1: race for the first time, seeing a family, seeing a 1638 01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:57,640 Speaker 1: family like his, loving and that was very emotional. She 1639 01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,880 Speaker 1: realized that it wasn't her, her her biracial identity that 1640 01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:04,040 Speaker 1: was creating problems. It was the people in her family 1641 01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:06,840 Speaker 1: that were creating problems. And to see a possibility of 1642 01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:10,280 Speaker 1: a loving family that looked like her really changed things 1643 01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,320 Speaker 1: for her. And I think that that relationship obviously is 1644 01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,080 Speaker 1: so crucial in her development as a human being. And 1645 01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:19,880 Speaker 1: I just everything about it, like the way she felt 1646 01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,840 Speaker 1: awake sexually for the first time. I just love that 1647 01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:25,679 Speaker 1: she really went there with that chapter and it created 1648 01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:31,400 Speaker 1: my favorite music of hers. It's just such a vividly painted, 1649 01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:36,479 Speaker 1: illustrated like thing and like it's one of those like honestly, 1650 01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,880 Speaker 1: like it's one of those things where it's like that's love, 1651 01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:44,640 Speaker 1: that is love, like those like the conversations with the 1652 01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:46,479 Speaker 1: people who do make you feel like there's no one 1653 01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:50,400 Speaker 1: else in the room. Like that is huge, and I'm 1654 01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:52,880 Speaker 1: horny name for it it. I mean, it was such 1655 01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:54,599 Speaker 1: a horny moment in the book. And also the way 1656 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:56,960 Speaker 1: that they were like sneaking her into that like pizza parlor. 1657 01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:58,840 Speaker 1: She went out the back and like whatever, like and 1658 01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,479 Speaker 1: like just that sneaky in this like it was so tense, 1659 01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:03,120 Speaker 1: you know, Like that part of the book was so 1660 01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:06,479 Speaker 1: like it was. And then she gets home and she's 1661 01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:08,639 Speaker 1: like drenched, and she was so thankful that Tommy wasn't 1662 01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:11,080 Speaker 1: there to see her was so wet, because she would 1663 01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,800 Speaker 1: have had to explain why she was wet, Like the 1664 01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:16,599 Speaker 1: whole fact of the matter that that she had like um, 1665 01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,559 Speaker 1: surveillance in every room in her house except the bathroom, 1666 01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,759 Speaker 1: and the only place she could find solace was the bathtub, 1667 01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:25,040 Speaker 1: Like come on, like that, the fact that she was 1668 01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,720 Speaker 1: living like that. And then when she talks about UM, God, 1669 01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:30,920 Speaker 1: I can talk about this forever, just like getting fries 1670 01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:35,080 Speaker 1: with to brat that like and that to burger King. Yes, 1671 01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:37,400 Speaker 1: when you go to Burger King next time, reader, you 1672 01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,240 Speaker 1: better appreciate the freedom you have to go to Burger 1673 01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:44,000 Speaker 1: King Mariah Fries. But but and then the last the 1674 01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:47,680 Speaker 1: other thing was um, I was really moved by um. 1675 01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:50,760 Speaker 1: And the song is sort of like um, it's so 1676 01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,120 Speaker 1: uh not a basic song, but it's just like it's 1677 01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:58,560 Speaker 1: so for the masses. Yes, it's so commercial and for 1678 01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,760 Speaker 1: the masses that I don't think gets credit, but it 1679 01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:05,400 Speaker 1: really means something to so many people. It's a beautiful song. UM. 1680 01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:08,720 Speaker 1: But I loved hearing about the creation of Hero, how 1681 01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:10,320 Speaker 1: it just kind of came to her in the hallway, 1682 01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:13,680 Speaker 1: and how it was originally for Gloria Stefan, and then 1683 01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,080 Speaker 1: she performed it live at that concert and schenected me 1684 01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:17,680 Speaker 1: for the very first time, and she felt that she 1685 01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,639 Speaker 1: really connected with her fans, who she realized she had 1686 01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:24,880 Speaker 1: in that moment, and that whole section I thought was 1687 01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:31,280 Speaker 1: was really terrific. Yeah. I think she's one of those artists. Listen, 1688 01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about thirty years. She's had number ones for 1689 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,800 Speaker 1: four decades in a row. Um, obviously in a row. 1690 01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:39,920 Speaker 1: But it's this thing where it's like, I feel like 1691 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:44,000 Speaker 1: she has these seasons in her career that like are 1692 01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:49,920 Speaker 1: so distinct and are marked by struggle. Yes, but it's 1693 01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,080 Speaker 1: like she it's the book is a triumph The book 1694 01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:55,960 Speaker 1: like sort of like tenses you up as you read it, 1695 01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:57,840 Speaker 1: but like it's like it's like by the time you 1696 01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,960 Speaker 1: get to that last chapter, it's it's triumphant. It's like, 1697 01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:04,439 Speaker 1: oh my god, thank god, she's happy. Yeah. I'm actually 1698 01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:05,960 Speaker 1: deciding in this moment that I don't want to go 1699 01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,080 Speaker 1: negative on this one part, because I do think it 1700 01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:10,960 Speaker 1: was a cultural thing that Celendion didn't know that she wasn't. 1701 01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:14,479 Speaker 1: I think Selena's just goof aloof, and she just didn't 1702 01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,040 Speaker 1: know that she doesn't supposed to challenge read the Franklin 1703 01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:19,600 Speaker 1: in that moment and from Mariah carry someone who idolized 1704 01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:23,120 Speaker 1: her and you know, is a black woman like she 1705 01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:25,040 Speaker 1: she had to look at that happen and be like, 1706 01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm mortified this is happening, and then Patty Labell afterwards 1707 01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:29,680 Speaker 1: being like I would have smacked you upside the head 1708 01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:33,320 Speaker 1: had you done what that child did, like you like 1709 01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,559 Speaker 1: that was wrong, but but like I can't be reading 1710 01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,360 Speaker 1: I can't be reading about it. She didn't know any better. 1711 01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:43,280 Speaker 1: I don't think no, no, no, but I'm gonna do 1712 01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:44,559 Speaker 1: something else. I have a good I have another good. 1713 01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't think okay good, but if you watch back. 1714 01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:49,720 Speaker 1: I went back and watched it, and I feel like 1715 01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,599 Speaker 1: a wreath. It was just having fun. Yeah, it didn't 1716 01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,200 Speaker 1: seem like a wreath. It was like that ghastly like 1717 01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:58,760 Speaker 1: what was that like? Mortified or no? I think it 1718 01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,920 Speaker 1: was more just everyone around her, who of course I 1719 01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:05,560 Speaker 1: was visibly uncomfortable. Well, and Mariah has the reverence she 1720 01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:07,720 Speaker 1: talks about how you know, when she first met her, 1721 01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:09,680 Speaker 1: she got down on her knee and said like, I 1722 01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:11,479 Speaker 1: want to thank you for everything you've done. My name 1723 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:14,360 Speaker 1: is Mariah, etcetera. And then Mariatha said, later, Maria, you 1724 01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:17,680 Speaker 1: have good manners. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that which was 1725 01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:19,200 Speaker 1: a part I really liked. And she's like, that's what 1726 01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:20,920 Speaker 1: the other girls don't have matters, And I think that 1727 01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:24,800 Speaker 1: informed the way she looked at that moment was she 1728 01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,120 Speaker 1: knew that it was important, the decorum of it all 1729 01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,400 Speaker 1: was important to Aretha, and for Seline to challenge her 1730 01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:33,960 Speaker 1: that was just against Mariah's moral code. It wasn't respectable. 1731 01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:37,639 Speaker 1: I get it, um, I do want What I thought 1732 01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:40,360 Speaker 1: was missing in the book was the moment where Donna 1733 01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:44,360 Speaker 1: Summer backed out the night of for this like for 1734 01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:46,639 Speaker 1: this other Diva's show that was supposed to have Diana 1735 01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:49,000 Speaker 1: and was it in another Divas show? But I don't 1736 01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:50,880 Speaker 1: know what it was, but it's in the book that 1737 01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:53,040 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a trio between Donna Summer, 1738 01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:56,320 Speaker 1: Diana Ross and Mariah and then Donna Summer came to 1739 01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:58,760 Speaker 1: rehearsal and then was like, all of a sudden not 1740 01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,640 Speaker 1: doing it anymore. No one knows why. I don't know 1741 01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:03,599 Speaker 1: about that Donna Summer. I mean, we love her music, 1742 01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:08,080 Speaker 1: but she was very homophobic. In the end, we that 1743 01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:09,600 Speaker 1: we just have to we just have to put that 1744 01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:11,760 Speaker 1: out there. But we love on the radio, we love 1745 01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,439 Speaker 1: Last Dance, We love um, you know all the bops, 1746 01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:17,760 Speaker 1: So it might be time. It might be time for 1747 01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,679 Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. And we are doing Mariah centric, 1748 01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:22,280 Speaker 1: I don't think so honey, this being a Mariah centric episode, 1749 01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:25,800 Speaker 1: an episode I have so enjoyed as I enjoyed this 1750 01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:29,800 Speaker 1: book and I loved just like going back and listening 1751 01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,439 Speaker 1: to all her music. I can't recommend enough. I'll repost 1752 01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:34,640 Speaker 1: those playlists too. I'm gonna make it more because I 1753 01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:37,800 Speaker 1: really enjoy doing it. But I have one. Okay, this 1754 01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:39,680 Speaker 1: is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many. As time 1755 01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,160 Speaker 1: starts now, I don't think so honey. Anyone's sleeping on 1756 01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:45,480 Speaker 1: the album Charm Bracelet. Okay, you don't have to understand. 1757 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,080 Speaker 1: Even though this was the album that was after Litter 1758 01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:52,120 Speaker 1: and before I'm Ancipatient, this album has bops. Okay, boy, 1759 01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:54,880 Speaker 1: I need you with Cameron. This is a bop through 1760 01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,360 Speaker 1: the Rain the way that Maria sinks that if you 1761 01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:59,519 Speaker 1: don't respect that, I don't think so honey. If you're 1762 01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:01,760 Speaker 1: not off on that song as a gay person, as 1763 01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:03,880 Speaker 1: a queer person, I don't think so honey. On this 1764 01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:06,200 Speaker 1: hashtag national coming out that you need to come out 1765 01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:08,240 Speaker 1: as a stand of charm Bracelet. I know it was 1766 01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:10,519 Speaker 1: a few days ago recording on the day. Let me 1767 01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:12,200 Speaker 1: just say some songs that are on here that are 1768 01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:16,519 Speaker 1: fucking slays yours. Okay. The song Clown, which was her 1769 01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,120 Speaker 1: first time as she came for Eminem Clown is an 1770 01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:21,920 Speaker 1: unbelievable song. You all need to listen to Clown, and 1771 01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:24,439 Speaker 1: if you don't, I don't think so, honey. Also, the 1772 01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,080 Speaker 1: cover of Bringing On the Heartbreak? Is it? The songs 1773 01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,880 Speaker 1: subtle invitation? Is it? The one of the last songs 1774 01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:32,479 Speaker 1: is the last actually a Sunflowers for Alfred Roy, which 1775 01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:35,360 Speaker 1: is a gorgeous tribute to her father who passed. Five 1776 01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:39,200 Speaker 1: seconds beautiful, please stand charmed, braceted, listen to charm boted. 1777 01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:40,600 Speaker 1: If you don't, I don't think so, honey. You're not 1778 01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,000 Speaker 1: a lamb and that's one minute. Don't be calling yourself 1779 01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:45,719 Speaker 1: a lamb and not be not be including charm bracelet 1780 01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:50,080 Speaker 1: into the conversation. Beautiful. Now do you think Mariah's art 1781 01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:53,839 Speaker 1: pop is charm Bracelet or Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel? 1782 01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:57,120 Speaker 1: I think probably her chart her art pop is probably me. 1783 01:33:57,240 --> 01:34:01,080 Speaker 1: I am Maria, the elusive Shan too, but I feel 1784 01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:04,000 Speaker 1: like if it's her art pop, it's the underappreciated album 1785 01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,240 Speaker 1: has has has has like has like um, you know, 1786 01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:10,760 Speaker 1: like sort of a hindsight value. Then I think it's 1787 01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:14,040 Speaker 1: tied between me, I am Maria, the Alusa Shantus and 1788 01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:17,360 Speaker 1: charm Bracelet because I think Memoirs Memoirs has respect like 1789 01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:20,639 Speaker 1: Memoirs spawned a hit song. Obsessed was a huge. Obsessed 1790 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:22,120 Speaker 1: was huge, but that was but that was kind of 1791 01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:24,240 Speaker 1: it though, right, and there was up at my Face 1792 01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:27,720 Speaker 1: was well And by the way, I watched that Up 1793 01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:29,920 Speaker 1: on my Face video again, Like you said last week, 1794 01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,800 Speaker 1: it's crazy how much fun they're having together having so 1795 01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:34,519 Speaker 1: I told that's why I said last week. It's like 1796 01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:38,519 Speaker 1: they're genuinely they're not faking it. They're enjoying each other's company. 1797 01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:40,160 Speaker 1: You would never be able to tell me that that 1798 01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:42,599 Speaker 1: would become the feud that it did. And also noticed 1799 01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,720 Speaker 1: that's not in the book at all. She doesn't even 1800 01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:46,840 Speaker 1: mention that. She's not even the words American. I don't 1801 01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:49,760 Speaker 1: even uttered because who cares. Yeah, I don't want to know. 1802 01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,320 Speaker 1: I was thinking like, oh, there are intentional things that 1803 01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:56,400 Speaker 1: aren't mentioned, Like I guess I mean the entire time 1804 01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:57,880 Speaker 1: is like when she's gonna talk about Nick Cannon, then 1805 01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:00,800 Speaker 1: I feel like she she devotes like read paragraphs to 1806 01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:02,599 Speaker 1: it or something, and I'm like, well, she she goes 1807 01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:04,280 Speaker 1: into the Nick Kinna stuff and you get that she's 1808 01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:06,720 Speaker 1: got like a that was like a real love. And 1809 01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:09,880 Speaker 1: I always questioned I was like each other's lives still, 1810 01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:12,960 Speaker 1: Like yeah, I was always like Mariah and Nick Kennon. 1811 01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:15,280 Speaker 1: I wonder what that really is. And I think that 1812 01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:17,519 Speaker 1: she says it as plainly as she can, Like she 1813 01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,200 Speaker 1: was really unaware of who he was because she didn't 1814 01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:24,160 Speaker 1: watch TV, she didn't know all of his nineties relevance. 1815 01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:26,840 Speaker 1: And then she met him and he was fun. He 1816 01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:29,200 Speaker 1: was hot and fun, and he wanted to have kids 1817 01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:30,960 Speaker 1: with her, and he was obsessed with there. So you 1818 01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:33,120 Speaker 1: meet someone hot, fun who's obsessed with you and wants 1819 01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:36,200 Speaker 1: the future, you'd be hard pressed not to marry Nick Cannon. 1820 01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:38,560 Speaker 1: If Nick Cannon wanted to wanted to marry me, I 1821 01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:43,280 Speaker 1: would be like, yes, absolutely. Also, I thought it was 1822 01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:45,720 Speaker 1: interesting that she was like, originally Nick Canna was going 1823 01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:47,320 Speaker 1: to be in the Touch My Body video and we 1824 01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:49,400 Speaker 1: thought a nerd. I was like, I think he would 1825 01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:50,720 Speaker 1: have been a great nerd. He would have been a 1826 01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:53,840 Speaker 1: great nerd. He was like, he's a sketch performer, he 1827 01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:57,160 Speaker 1: can do it. Yeah, hot nerd culture is culture. Hot 1828 01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:01,200 Speaker 1: nerd culture. His culture equals MC squared. Also was terrific. Um, 1829 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,519 Speaker 1: I mean, emancipation is a fucking moment. Then you got, 1830 01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean glitter might be Mariah's art pop. Sure, Oh 1831 01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,760 Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's that's fair. That's fair. You're right, you're right, 1832 01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:11,240 Speaker 1: And then the other ones are just all kind of 1833 01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:16,160 Speaker 1: critically acclaimed masterpieces. All right. So the thing is, after 1834 01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:17,920 Speaker 1: I do my I don't think so, honey. What what 1835 01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:20,639 Speaker 1: happened is Bowen will do his. I don't think so, honey. 1836 01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:26,120 Speaker 1: And if he's ready, I can set the clock. Yeah 1837 01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:28,240 Speaker 1: I think I'm ready. Okay, Well that means I will 1838 01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:30,479 Speaker 1: start the clock Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey. 1839 01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:34,280 Speaker 1: Time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Marshall Mathers 1840 01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:40,640 Speaker 1: m stupid clown, bit clown, dumb ass, toxic horror. You 1841 01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:44,080 Speaker 1: are eminem and there's a reason why why you so 1842 01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:47,840 Speaker 1: obsessed with her? Boy. I want to know you have 1843 01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:52,120 Speaker 1: been harassing this poor woman ever since you wanted. You 1844 01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:56,840 Speaker 1: decided to get in your dumb little ideation machine that 1845 01:36:56,960 --> 01:36:59,120 Speaker 1: you call your brain that you wanted to fuck her, 1846 01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:03,280 Speaker 1: and she was like, no, stop it. You have other 1847 01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:07,160 Speaker 1: options out there, Marshal. You don't have to funk Mariah Carey. 1848 01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:09,000 Speaker 1: You don't have to show up at the oscars in 1849 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:14,000 Speaker 1: out of nowhere and perform and and do lose yourself. 1850 01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:19,880 Speaker 1: It's a great song, It's maybe one good cultural contribution. Stan, 1851 01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:23,240 Speaker 1: I don't care for I don't even uh see, I 1852 01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:27,680 Speaker 1: don't even know. I'm I'm gonna get into this after that. 1853 01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:29,559 Speaker 1: My minutes up. But first of all, I don't think 1854 01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:31,840 Speaker 1: so many Eminem. Okay, my minutes up. That's what minute? 1855 01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:36,400 Speaker 1: Do we care about Eminem's contribution to hip hop? Let's 1856 01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:38,679 Speaker 1: just say to hip hop, look me in the eyes. 1857 01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:43,640 Speaker 1: As as as lovers of hip hop, you and I. 1858 01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:48,400 Speaker 1: I don't fucking care for Marshall Mathers at all. It's 1859 01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:52,920 Speaker 1: I just think he came along at the exact right 1860 01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:58,200 Speaker 1: time where we would have even allowed someone like, yeah, well, 1861 01:37:58,240 --> 01:38:00,280 Speaker 1: you know what, of those people are very ill and 1862 01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:02,360 Speaker 1: they need a lot of help, and I'm willing to 1863 01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:04,759 Speaker 1: pay to help them get the help that they need. Actually, 1864 01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:07,880 Speaker 1: I'll do us. I'll do a scholarship every year at 1865 01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:10,120 Speaker 1: my high school. Find the person that still likes Eminem 1866 01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:13,840 Speaker 1: and give them six hundred dollars. I'll pay that for 1867 01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:15,439 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. I'm willing to do a 1868 01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:20,040 Speaker 1: scholarship to help young kids that think that would I 1869 01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:23,040 Speaker 1: would start this scholarship with you. We should start the scholarship. 1870 01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:26,600 Speaker 1: Can can you do? Can we each do? Let's just 1871 01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:30,200 Speaker 1: each to five hundred for each of our high schools. 1872 01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:32,120 Speaker 1: Does that work? So so it's like we each we 1873 01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:34,880 Speaker 1: each pay a thousand total? Yeah, okay, So basically, it's 1874 01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:37,719 Speaker 1: like a teacher that we trust at the school, find 1875 01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:40,640 Speaker 1: the kid that looks like they might like Eminem and 1876 01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:42,960 Speaker 1: give them the money to get the help that they 1877 01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:45,040 Speaker 1: need to get the help that they need, which is, 1878 01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,000 Speaker 1: if you like Eminem, you need to get the help 1879 01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:49,200 Speaker 1: you need. Is actually real culture number one hundred and four. 1880 01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,240 Speaker 1: If you like he needs to get to help to 1881 01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:55,920 Speaker 1: help you need waiting scholarship, then it has to be 1882 01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:59,720 Speaker 1: that we that that goes towards their schooling. Literally, I 1883 01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:04,439 Speaker 1: don't think so, honey, Eminem, you need an education if 1884 01:39:04,479 --> 01:39:09,519 Speaker 1: you like him, rancid, I don't know why we even 1885 01:39:10,280 --> 01:39:15,000 Speaker 1: I feel like Eminem is like a squatter in our brain. Well, 1886 01:39:15,320 --> 01:39:17,439 Speaker 1: first of all, I'll tell you why we even give 1887 01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:21,640 Speaker 1: a fuck is because he came along. Well, no, it was, 1888 01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:25,120 Speaker 1: it was, It was fucking before that. Basically, like homophobia 1889 01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:28,000 Speaker 1: was engineer Doug. Since i'll lie for the five dollars, 1890 01:39:28,040 --> 01:39:32,479 Speaker 1: it's a thousand Doug. It's a thousand Doug now. So basically, 1891 01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:36,800 Speaker 1: like homophobia was cool, and so he came along and 1892 01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:40,439 Speaker 1: made his whole thing homophobia and misogyny, and like the 1893 01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:42,800 Speaker 1: culture couldn't have been more toxic at that point because 1894 01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,479 Speaker 1: it was post like the Clinton and Clinton impeachment. Everyone 1895 01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,439 Speaker 1: hated women. Hillary was the biggest punching bag just at 1896 01:39:49,479 --> 01:39:51,560 Speaker 1: that time, Like it was just so fucking cool to 1897 01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:54,920 Speaker 1: hate women. And the fact that he took misogyny and 1898 01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:58,320 Speaker 1: violence against women and homophobia so fucking far and made 1899 01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,439 Speaker 1: made such a huge fortune on it, he should be 1900 01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:03,880 Speaker 1: sucking ashamed for the rest of his life. And if 1901 01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:06,280 Speaker 1: you think that there aren't legions of men who hit 1902 01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:08,200 Speaker 1: their girlfriends because they thought it was cool because they 1903 01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:10,840 Speaker 1: heard Eminem did it, you've got another fucking thing coming. 1904 01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:13,760 Speaker 1: And it's disgusting. And he's the worst thing that's come 1905 01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:18,240 Speaker 1: out of American culture, oh pop culture. And now he's 1906 01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:21,960 Speaker 1: sucking with Mariah Carrie. He's not fit to shine her shoes. 1907 01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:29,879 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you did that. Hashtag hashtag literally literally 1908 01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:34,519 Speaker 1: sister life hashtag after fuck him? And I used to 1909 01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:36,240 Speaker 1: think he would. I used to think he was hot too, 1910 01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:38,800 Speaker 1: which is so tough. He's got a fucking fat ass. 1911 01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:40,639 Speaker 1: You'd be a superstar bottom if he put his mind 1912 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:42,200 Speaker 1: to it. He really would. Why don't you tell that 1913 01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:45,240 Speaker 1: to Chuck Schumer Nancy Pelosi? There we go, Yeah, why 1914 01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:46,960 Speaker 1: don't we tell to chor him out the window? Chuck 1915 01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:49,920 Speaker 1: and Nancy, Let's let's let's get a little dirty here. 1916 01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,800 Speaker 1: Why not let's play dirty? Um? Okay, So, so a 1917 01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:55,640 Speaker 1: few things before we close out. I just want to 1918 01:40:55,680 --> 01:40:58,759 Speaker 1: say I loved this episode so much. What a treat. 1919 01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:01,840 Speaker 1: I love a book hub. I know it's Matt and 1920 01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:03,719 Speaker 1: I don't want this to be part of the narrative 1921 01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,280 Speaker 1: that you don't read too many books. I don't like 1922 01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:09,000 Speaker 1: this anymore. It's such a bad bit. It's such a 1923 01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:11,280 Speaker 1: bad bit. I don't like the bit anymore, like because 1924 01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:14,560 Speaker 1: it's because it's not true. Be we lean into it 1925 01:41:14,760 --> 01:41:17,600 Speaker 1: because it helps with the dichotomy with you and I. 1926 01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:20,599 Speaker 1: But now I have people like actually in my DNM 1927 01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:25,200 Speaker 1: d n M as I try to make. I have 1928 01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:27,080 Speaker 1: people in my d MS now treating me like I'm 1929 01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:28,760 Speaker 1: dumb and like trying to do a bit to me, 1930 01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:30,560 Speaker 1: like I'm stupid. First of all, you don't know me 1931 01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:32,439 Speaker 1: like that, get out of my d M. Second of all, 1932 01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:37,000 Speaker 1: like I'm so, it's not I'm I'm I don't not read. 1933 01:41:38,040 --> 01:41:40,080 Speaker 1: So I just love a book club. I think we 1934 01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:42,400 Speaker 1: can do this, um with a book that sort of 1935 01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:45,280 Speaker 1: strikes our interest in the future, I would love that. 1936 01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:47,680 Speaker 1: Let's do that. It's gonna get us away from this 1937 01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:51,640 Speaker 1: narrative has to come organically. I think another thing we 1938 01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:54,600 Speaker 1: should talk about is we're gonna go a few a 1939 01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:57,760 Speaker 1: few more episodes than normal that are just me and 1940 01:41:57,880 --> 01:41:59,240 Speaker 1: Matt for a bit, and then we'll every now and 1941 01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:00,920 Speaker 1: then we'll bring in again us. But this is sort 1942 01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:03,680 Speaker 1: of the dynamic for now in the short term, just 1943 01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:07,639 Speaker 1: because our schedules are kind of crazy now, um, it's 1944 01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:11,280 Speaker 1: harder for us to find times that work for just 1945 01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:13,200 Speaker 1: between me and Matt in the first place, but then 1946 01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,320 Speaker 1: to figure out I guess schedule into that is also 1947 01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:20,519 Speaker 1: a little bit of, um, an outside factor. So it's 1948 01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:23,479 Speaker 1: actually what is exciting for us right now, Like you know, 1949 01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:25,600 Speaker 1: Boone and I feel like we can be Bone and 1950 01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:27,560 Speaker 1: I sometimes when it's just the two of us, not 1951 01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:29,920 Speaker 1: that we haven't ever been like ourselves and having a 1952 01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:32,240 Speaker 1: blast when we have any guests. It's just we want 1953 01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:33,840 Speaker 1: to do this for a little while. And we've been 1954 01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:35,599 Speaker 1: hearing you guys, and you guys seem to like these 1955 01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:38,840 Speaker 1: episodes with just bo and I, so we're down for it. 1956 01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:40,880 Speaker 1: So yes, but we'll still bring in guests every now 1957 01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:43,800 Speaker 1: and then. Yeah, and it'll be great. Um. But yeah, 1958 01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:46,320 Speaker 1: So we're excited about that, and we're excited about this 1959 01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:49,880 Speaker 1: app and we're excited about each other. And uh that's 1960 01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:53,160 Speaker 1: really number one. Um wow, I love this And you've 1961 01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:55,559 Speaker 1: got to read the meaning of Mariah Carey I mean, 1962 01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:58,680 Speaker 1: and also shout out to Andy Cohen Books that that 1963 01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:02,840 Speaker 1: published this. Oh yeah, did you know that she thanks 1964 01:43:02,920 --> 01:43:05,560 Speaker 1: him in the acknowledgements. Well, she was on Watch What 1965 01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:07,840 Speaker 1: Happens Live on the same week as you want an Honor? 1966 01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:11,960 Speaker 1: When an honor to share the same error segment as 1967 01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:16,600 Speaker 1: her in one week? Please better yet, even listen to 1968 01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:19,200 Speaker 1: the audio book, I feel like it's really one of 1969 01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:22,880 Speaker 1: those experiences that is enriched by the sort of sound 1970 01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:24,840 Speaker 1: that the sounds of her reading. She has changed the 1971 01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:28,000 Speaker 1: game for audiobooks for sure. I agree. I agree. She 1972 01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:31,280 Speaker 1: better want a Grammy for that, I would imagine. All right, 1973 01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:34,960 Speaker 1: so this has been last culture and we are, of 1974 01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:46,559 Speaker 1: course gonna take it out with a song why sex. 1975 01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:56,920 Speaker 1: When everybody boo, it's clear and when they get impressed, Man, 1976 01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:04,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't get this good delusion. You're losing your mind. It's confused, 1977 01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:07,599 Speaker 1: and you'll you're confused. You know why you're wasting your time? 1978 01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:12,880 Speaker 1: Mariah said, Let's say see you right, do you like 1979 01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:21,080 Speaker 1: your bathe in a Windex? Oh? Oh, Windex in the chorus, 1980 01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:24,080 Speaker 1: the way that Windex is a lyric in hurt, The 1981 01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:27,120 Speaker 1: way that Windex figured in as the prominent lyric in 1982 01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:29,720 Speaker 1: the chorus. I can't. She just watched my big Back 1983 01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:32,439 Speaker 1: Grief wedding, and it's like I'm reading Windex into this song, 1984 01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:35,880 Speaker 1: she said. Windex writes, Windex writes, Okay bye,